Back
[00:00:42] <Connor1> Man.. I tell you what.. I can't catch a break on anything with this damn RV. Now the Black and Grey Water holding tanks are frozzen..
[00:00:53] <Connor1> I can't dump anything.. and the black needs to be.
[00:01:50] Connor1 is now known as Connor
[00:01:50] <furrywolf> dump rock salt down the toilet
[00:01:59] <furrywolf> along with a bucket of hot water
[00:02:03] <Connor> I put antifreeze down it...
[00:02:12] <Connor> and then hot water.. and more antifreeze..
[00:02:37] <furrywolf> go drive it to a warmer part of the country.
[00:02:41] <Connor> just not done anything yet.. I even have a small forced air heater under the RV contained in a styrafoam box..
[00:03:21] <furrywolf> is the whole tank frozen, or just the pipe to the valve?
[00:04:27] <Connor> I really don't know.
[00:05:09] <XXCoder> I remember this joke
[00:05:09] <tjtr33> hello, is the iso csum listed on
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Getting_LinuxCNC.html up to date?
[00:05:11] <furrywolf> remove the pipe from the outlet of the valve, open valve, jam stick in. keep head out of way. :P
[00:05:16] <Connor> It got down to single digits..
[00:05:33] <furrywolf> tjtr: probably not. I don't think ANY of the docs are up to date. lol
[00:05:39] <Connor> furrywolf: That does not sound like a found job to me.
[00:05:59] <XXCoder> guy got sick of snow.. he attached hmm dammit whats that name? to his truck. he drove south till someone said "what's that thing on truck" and moved there lol
[00:06:24] <tjtr33> furrywolf, thx
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[00:06:56] <furrywolf> connor: dealing with the black system is rarely fun.
[00:08:43] <furrywolf> find somewhere with a heated garage, and set up a propane or kerosene heater aimed at the black tank and plumbing.
[00:09:26] <Connor> Yea, That's a tad easier said than done ATM.
[00:09:39] <XXCoder> or get one of those radatior heat thingy with dish, aim it to under where it is
[00:09:52] <furrywolf> xxcoder: the output of electric heaters is roughly useless.
[00:10:06] <Connor> XXCoder: Too tall to fit under the 12" space..
[00:10:16] <Connor> I need one of those That looks like a jet engine.
[00:10:34] <XXCoder> is rv inside being heated now?
[00:10:36] <tjtr33> salamander or heat enema
[00:10:44] <Connor> Yes, inside is fine.
[00:10:49] <Connor> It's just the holding tanks.
[00:11:11] <XXCoder> hmm so it's not extending heat to there
[00:11:29] <furrywolf> heat enema? now I've had plenty of enemas, but a heat enema sounds scary. :P
[00:13:18] <Connor> XXCoder: no, the holding tank is below the RV.. as is the dump valve and pipes.. which are open and exposed.
[00:13:37] <XXCoder> boil hgeavily salted water and pour it in?
[00:13:59] <XXCoder> salt means it takes LOT more cold to freeze and it cools off much slower
[00:14:50] <Connor> I think I'm just going to deal with it in the morning and hope it's warmed up some.. Just not sure how hot it needs to be before it starts to Thaw.
[00:14:59] <furrywolf> next time, add the antifreeze to the empty tank, rather than waiting until you have a full frozen one. :)
[00:15:20] <XXCoder> Frozen throne, sequel to Frozen lol
[00:15:22] <Connor> 46 high, 39 low tomorrow.
[00:15:44] <Connor> furrywolf: Yea. well.. This is completly new.. First time staying in a RV.
[00:15:59] <Connor> No running water.. now no way to dump the Black...
[00:16:35] <XXCoder> hope you can release the karaken tomorrow heh
[00:17:32] <furrywolf> wrap the plumbing in an electric blanket, heat tape, etc.
[00:18:16] <Connor> anyone know how much lee-way you have on the indicators? I.E. how much more can go in before it backs up ?
[00:18:34] <furrywolf> that depends entirely on your rv.
[00:19:28] <furrywolf> argh... I finally got the cyan printing, but only after enough cleaning cycles that I ran the yellow and black out.
[00:20:00] <XXCoder> that sucks
[00:20:13] <furrywolf> you know, if I weren't buying $1 ebay carts, I'd be really pissed right about now.
[00:20:22] <XXCoder> nicre
[00:21:14] <furrywolf> I have no idea how people spend $25 a cartridge
[00:21:28] <XXCoder> dunno
[00:21:36] <XXCoder> I loved my old laser printer
[00:21:58] <XXCoder> I printed enough to save enough (as compared to inkjet) to buy 2 of that same printer
[00:22:05] <XXCoder> and it was $1,000 printer
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[00:22:56] <furrywolf> I still have two old laserjet series IIs in storage... one of them even works!
[00:26:58] <furrywolf> I had a brother printer once based on the same canon chasis as the ljsII, but a little fancier, including a real page counter. it was at something like 840,000 pages.
[00:27:24] <furrywolf> new laser printers are all plastic, and don't have the same life expectancy. heh.
[00:28:21] <furrywolf> the other ljsII I have needs a new power supply capacitor and a new fusor lamp... I stole its lamp to make the other one work.
[00:31:04] <furrywolf> I could scrap them and get newer printers, but I like them. heh
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[00:40:31] <furrywolf> grrr, can't get all magenta nozzles to fire at once. every time I clean it, a DIFFERENT 2/3rds of them work.
[00:40:34] <furrywolf> I hate inkjets.
[00:41:58] * SpeedEvil passes furrywolf a nice reliable daisywheel.
[00:42:47] <furrywolf> I have one in storage!
[00:43:25] <furrywolf> it speaks EBCDIC. :P
[00:43:30] <furrywolf> with rs422 I think.
[00:44:13] <XXCoder> buy this ;)
http://blog.shoplet.com/office-supplies/praying-for-a-lego-printer/
[00:44:28] <furrywolf> last time I wrote a driver for it, it was under DOS and wordperfect for dos...
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[00:50:38] <XXCoder> did you see the video?
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[00:56:22] <furrywolf> what video?
[00:56:32] <XXCoder> one I linked to sec ago lol
[00:56:45] <furrywolf> with my internet connection, I ignore videos.
[00:56:57] <XXCoder> oh right. too bad
[00:57:01] <XXCoder> well basically
[00:57:08] <XXCoder> its lego printer
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[00:57:26] <XXCoder> it uses ink pen and computer controls it
[00:57:27] <furrywolf> and, in addition to my generally not liking video, and not having the bandwidth for video, the page you linked seems absent of any video unless you install a proprietary plugin.
[00:57:38] <XXCoder> flash
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[01:20:23] <furrywolf> grrrr. I'm pretty close to giving up on using the internet today. my connection is just plain sucking.
[01:21:16] * LeelooMinai wonders if furrywolf lives on Antarctica
[01:21:29] <LeelooMinai> Actually, they have probably better internet there:p
[01:22:39] <furrywolf> they have more money there, which helps.
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[02:18:43] <furrywolf> grrrr. and to add to my annoyances today, sound on my new laptop doesn't work. it comes out the headphones plug...
[02:19:50] <furrywolf> drivers, volume control, etc all work... just can't get even a crackle out of the internal speakers.
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[02:30:58] <malcom2073> On an interesting siden note, the guy I'm buying this mill from is Matt Shaver
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[02:32:45] <furrywolf> also, on a related note, can we please execute every single person who replies to a forum post without reading it first?
[02:33:01] <malcom2073> +!
[02:33:39] <malcom2073> +1 even
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[02:39:57] <CaptHindsight> http://savethesounds.info/
[02:41:02] <malcom2073> Hah that's awesome
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[02:58:28] <furrywolf> from what I can find googling (which is painfully slow due to my fucking worthless internet connection), it's likely a sound card firmware bug, or at least more likely than an actual hardware problem.
[02:58:50] <furrywolf> apparantly if you install win7 and the proper fix from panasonic, the sound will then work in linux too.
[02:58:56] <furrywolf> ... that is not ok.
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[03:19:11] <furrywolf> hrmm. someone down the road is having a bonfire, of the likely-unadvisably-large variety.
[03:19:32] <furrywolf> I hear happy children, so it's not a house on fire... but the flames are about as tall.
[03:20:44] <malcom2073> Heh
[03:20:50] <malcom2073> could still be the house on fire
[03:20:52] <malcom2073> never know
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[03:24:58] <furrywolf> I've seen plenty of large bonfires. :)
[03:25:23] <furrywolf> the best was when a friend made a box out of pallets, 2x2 square and 3 high, and filled it with month-old christmas trees.
[03:25:33] <furrywolf> maybe it was 4 high
[03:26:02] <malcom2073> Pallets do really qwll
[03:26:04] <malcom2073> well*
[03:26:16] <roycroft> that would be spectacular, but only for about 4 minutes
[03:26:21] <malcom2073> lol
[03:27:41] <furrywolf> roycroft: yep
[03:27:50] <furrywolf> it's scary how fast christmas trees go up
[03:28:32] <roycroft> and how fricking hot the fire is after only seconds
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[03:39:52] <furrywolf> yep
[03:47:14] <Jymmm> roycroft: pine sap = fuel =)
[03:48:02] <Jymmm> little bitty veins of gooey fuel ready to ignight
[03:49:13] <Jymmm> and I think act as an anti-freeze for the tree in the winter too iir
[03:49:22] <Jymmm> iirc*
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[03:56:42] <Tom_itx> anybody know what the hostmot2 step/table1 dir/table2 pins are for in my 7I90?
[03:57:14] <Tom_itx> actually, what's the default bit file that's loaded on the 7I90?
[03:58:32] <Tom_itx> it looks like a servo config to me
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[04:33:45] <s1dev> does anyone know where to source round gear racks 24in in length?
[04:33:49] <s1dev> 1/2"
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[04:35:57] <zeeshan> no electruction happened
[04:36:23] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/16251091345_498a51f72d_h.jpg
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[07:23:40] <norias> hi
[07:23:55] <XXCoder> hey
[07:24:10] <norias> how's it going?
[07:25:01] <XXCoder> not much
[07:25:05] <XXCoder> http://makezine.com/2015/01/06/formlabs-releases-draft-mode-and-smart-supports/ wow though
[07:26:12] <norias> heh
[07:26:41] <XXCoder> oh you got any health potions? im low on hearts LOL
[07:26:45] <XXCoder> being sick sucks
[07:26:52] <norias> sorry
[07:26:58] <norias> no potions
[07:27:18] <norias> hmm
[07:27:28] <norias> i think i know the guy that wrote the article you linked to
[07:27:41] <XXCoder> the weird smile guy?
[07:27:48] <norias> yeah
[07:27:54] <norias> looks familiar
[07:28:02] <norias> then i noticed he goes to hackpittsburgh
[07:28:06] <norias> which i haven't been to
[07:28:23] <norias> but i've been to a bunch of different maker events in pittsburgh
[07:29:02] <norias> i never liked their kinda communist looking icon
[07:29:15] <XXCoder> meh
[07:29:47] <norias> what's the deal with grbl?
[07:30:36] <XXCoder> dunno what grbl is
[07:30:58] <norias> oh, fair
[07:31:10] <norias> apparently g-code interpretation for..
[07:31:16] <norias> atmega chops
[07:31:25] <norias> chips
[07:32:02] <norias> i.e. arduino
[07:32:40] <norias> hmm
[07:32:48] <norias> looks like it's really for controlling steppers
[07:32:55] <XXCoder> interesting
[07:33:04] <norias> although, i bet some parts of the code would be useful for not-steppers
[07:33:55] <norias> MIT licensed
[07:37:00] <XXCoder> cool
[07:37:47] <norias> yeah
[07:37:57] <norias> i think becoming familiar with the code
[07:38:20] <norias> would support my goal of designing / making some hardware for controllers
[07:38:34] <norias> and generally knowing way more about what cnc controllers do with my g-code
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[07:39:39] <norias> anyhoo
[07:39:41] <norias> time to sleeo
[07:39:49] <XXCoder> night
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[08:18:16] <Deejay> moin
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[09:00:46] <Jymmm> alex_jon1: When you made you're netradio, what did you use for the encoder, an ardunio?
[09:01:11] <Jymmm> alex_jon1: to interfacce with the optical encoder that is
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[15:39:21] <JT-Shop> oh I probably need to figure out cron and zsync
[15:41:27] <JT-Shop> well maybe not cron that is for doing something a lot
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[15:56:22] <JT-Shop> uget seems to fit the bill
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[16:19:44] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, all 3 md5sums match their target iso files
[16:20:36] <Tom_L> 2.5 & 2.6 on the main page and 2.7 on the Getting started page
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[16:28:57] <tjtr33> the app 'alarm clock' can run a script at a time & date, repeatedly or 1 off. simple tiny gui. the script is up to you.
[16:30:48] <tjtr33> alarm-clock in synaptic
[16:31:10] <norias> hmm
[16:31:17] <norias> cnc record making machine?
[16:31:27] <JT-Shop> I found uget and you can schedule a download for the "free" times
[16:31:50] * JT-Shop just screwed up the tool offsets on the lathe again
[16:32:01] <Tom_L> 2.7 won't fit on a cd now though
[16:32:07] <JT-Shop> dvd
[16:32:11] <Tom_L> yes
[16:37:25] <pcw_home> usb stick
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[16:38:34] <archivist> norias, should be simple as it has two main axes and a cutter
[16:38:50] <norias> yeah, seems like it
[16:39:36] <norias> cutting a record and all
[16:40:47] <norias> well, now i want to play guitar
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[16:43:08] * JT-Shop thinks a nap is in order now that the offsets are hosed on the lathe again
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[17:27:38] <norias> no doors or drawers policy
[17:27:39] <norias> hmm
[17:27:41] <norias> like the idea
[17:28:42] * zeeshan is getting excited
[17:28:50] <zeeshan> today wiring will be done
[17:28:52] <zeeshan> for cnc
[17:28:53] <norias> whatcha excited about?
[17:28:54] <zeeshan> finally TESTING
[17:28:54] <norias> oh
[17:28:57] <norias> nice
[17:29:36] <zeeshan> does anyone know if you can still use a reduced size ground wire
[17:29:46] <zeeshan> if something is hooked up to a 100A breaker
[17:29:51] <zeeshan> i know for a subpanel, you can
[17:30:21] <Tom_itx> i did
[17:30:28] <Tom_itx> on a sub pannel
[17:30:37] <zeeshan> 250.122 says:
[17:30:46] <Tom_itx> frame, not neutral
[17:30:55] <zeeshan> 70-100 awg "minimum size equipment grounding conductor"
[17:30:58] <zeeshan> 8awg
[17:31:14] <zeeshan> awg = amp. 70-100amp
[17:31:23] <zeeshan> yea neutral has to be full sized
[17:31:52] <Tom_itx> they are generally tied together at the pannel anyway
[17:32:10] <zeeshan> at the main panel yea
[17:32:31] <zeeshan> well it makes no sense to me to run anything larger than 6 awg
[17:32:36] <zeeshan> because for sub they say 6awg..
[17:32:51] <zeeshan> i wish i could find a damn 80 amp breaker
[17:32:54] <zeeshan> but its impossible to find.
[17:33:18] <Tom_itx> go to an electrical supply
[17:33:22] <zeeshan> i did
[17:33:29] <zeeshan> to 3 diff authorized distributors
[17:33:34] <zeeshan> they go right from 60 amp
[17:33:38] <zeeshan> to 100 amp. one had 70
[17:33:46] <zeeshan> theyd idnt know that 80 amp breakers existed lol
[17:33:50] <zeeshan> i had to give them the part number
[17:34:00] <Tom_itx> what brand pannel?
[17:34:07] <zeeshan> siemens eql8100d
[17:34:10] <zeeshan> why do i have this memorized
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[17:36:55] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16251091345/
[17:37:01] <zeeshan> i cant even find a lug for the neutral
[17:37:11] <zeeshan> that lets me put a bigger wire through
[17:37:18] <zeeshan> home depot doesnt have it
[17:37:40] <Tom_itx> no appliance uses 80A
[17:37:44] <zeeshan> yea haha
[17:37:58] <zeeshan> even 4 awg is an uncommon size for supply houses to cary
[17:38:01] <zeeshan> they go from 6awg to 3
[17:38:57] <zeeshan> i just dont wanna have to wire twice
[17:39:02] <zeeshan> i had a 100 amp breaker
[17:39:08] <zeeshan> so i figure ill run 3awg wire since i already have it
[17:39:24] <zeeshan> its just that it wont fit inthe lug :)
[17:39:30] <zeeshan> for neutral
[17:39:30] <Tom_itx> drill it out
[17:39:33] <Tom_itx> :D
[17:39:35] <zeeshan> haha
[17:39:45] <zeeshan> i know they make a replacement lug
[17:39:53] <zeeshan> homedepot says they dont carry it anymore
[17:40:09] <Tom_itx> they don't carry much of anything anymore
[17:40:23] <Tom_itx> of the 'useful' stuff
[17:40:57] <norias> heh
[17:41:03] <norias> i see that as a...
[17:41:05] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.com/Siemens-ECLK2-4-2-Neutral-Lug/dp/B004H61F2K
[17:41:06] <norias> hmm
[17:41:06] <zeeshan> this is it
[17:41:17] <norias> reaction to the dumbing down of society
[17:41:33] <zeeshan> OMHG
[17:41:34] <norias> people don't buy that sort of stuff
[17:41:37] <zeeshan> i HAVE an extra pone
[17:41:40] <zeeshan> on my other sub panel!
[17:41:44] <norias> so, home depot doesn't stock it
[17:42:13] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, a guy with a good cnc could make one
[17:42:24] <zeeshan> haha Tom_itx
[17:42:32] <zeeshan> SOON!!
[17:44:01] <zeeshan> panel off time
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[17:48:55] <norias> hmm
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[18:15:11] <zeeshan> yay
[18:15:15] <zeeshan> lug stolen
[18:15:51] <furrywolf> ?
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[18:16:01] <zeeshan> i needed a neutral lug
[18:16:06] <zeeshan> so i stole it from my main panel
[18:16:09] <zeeshan> it wasnt being used :)
[18:16:33] <furrywolf> ah
[18:16:42] <furrywolf> and here I was thinking you interrupted someone taking the wheels off your car.
[18:16:54] <zeeshan> lol
[18:19:09] <furrywolf> brb, off to storage to fetch a usb hub and take pulley measurements on my mill
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[18:51:16] <zeeshan> i think instead of running flex conduit
[18:51:19] <zeeshan> from sub panel to cnc..
[18:51:23] <zeeshan> ill just buy some tek cable.
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[19:11:28] <zeeshan> does anyone know if soow cable for a permanent installation
[19:11:30] <zeeshan> is a violation of code
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[19:19:04] <XXCoder> soow?
[19:24:20] <JT-Shop> snow?
[19:27:02] <zeeshan> http://ecmweb.com/nec/code-basics/006ecmCBfig2x.jpg
[19:27:07] <zeeshan> this is what worries me :P
[19:27:43] <XXCoder> don't do third one and you'll be fine heh
[19:28:10] <zeeshan> yea but i dont know where the heck you'd fine a 100A receptacle.
[19:28:10] <zeeshan> lol
[19:28:18] <zeeshan> or even 80
[19:28:31] <XXCoder> just write a fine you'll do just fine ;)
[19:29:45] <zeeshan> http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?id=27909
[19:29:47] <LeelooMinai> OK, ##electronics failed again
[19:29:48] <zeeshan> wow
[19:30:03] <ReadError> lol ##electronics is such a joke
[19:30:09] <LeelooMinai> I will try this here then:)
[19:30:11] <LeelooMinai> Any ideas why 110V VFD(single phase) to 220V 3 phase drives end up being rated only for 750watt, though the input side has 1600watt potential? I know about current problems, etc., but in theory, since there's a DC bank in between both side, shouldn't it be possible to match more or less both sides as to the power?
[19:30:34] <zeeshan> i already answered this
[19:30:34] <zeeshan> lol
[19:30:39] <zeeshan> but you dont believe me
[19:30:45] <zeeshan> you have an oscilloscope , hook up your vfd
[19:30:48] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No, you think you fif:)
[19:30:49] <zeeshan> and measure the current
[19:30:53] <zeeshan> i told you!
[19:31:08] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I know the theory, etc., but the above is still valid.
[19:31:22] <zeeshan> its not about the power.
[19:31:32] <zeeshan> its about 3 phase current vs single
[19:32:00] <pcw_home> Its about ripple current on the filter capacitor
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[19:32:17] <LeelooMinai> But I am not asking about problems normal VFDs here, just why they cannot solve them.
[19:32:21] <LeelooMinai> here=have
[19:32:22] <SpeedEvil> Ripple current can be arbitrarily small
[19:32:30] <SpeedEvil> all you need is a PFC stage first
[19:32:33] <SpeedEvil> this costs some $
[19:32:47] <pcw_home> ummm no...
[19:32:50] <zeeshan> 1 hp motor , 3 phase (750watt) , draws 3.6A @ 230V (NEC table FLA motor currents 3 phase)
[19:33:08] <LeelooMinai> So I am right that this is limitation imposed by shortcomings in VFDs, not absolute limitation?
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[19:33:29] <SpeedEvil> fundamentally - peak watts in = peak watts out
[19:33:35] <SpeedEvil> - neglecting 10% or so losses.
[19:33:41] <zeeshan> according to the same nec table, single phase motor draws 8A @ 230V and three phase motor draws 16A @ 115V.
[19:33:41] <pcw_home> Its a limitation of single phase power
[19:33:42] <LeelooMinai> IN theory one couild create VFD that would run 1500watt 3 phase 220V motor from 110V mains?
[19:33:48] <zeeshan> the reason these numbers change is
[19:33:53] <zeeshan> because of polyphase math.
[19:33:55] <SpeedEvil> LeelooMinai: if you're happy with very slow start.
[19:34:07] <pcw_home> Sure but it woudl cost a lot more
[19:34:12] <LeelooMinai> Right, do such VFDs even exist? :)
[19:34:14] <SpeedEvil> Indeed
[19:34:18] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You see - I told you:)
[19:34:44] <zeeshan> you told me what?
[19:34:49] <zeeshan> these guys are talking about a different aspect
[19:34:50] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: That it's possible
[19:34:58] <zeeshan> im talking about simple 1 phase current to 3 phase current conversion
[19:35:05] <pcw_home> the problem with single phase power is it disappears 120 times a second
[19:35:10] <zeeshan> EXACTLY
[19:35:19] <zeeshan> its due to the fact that the wave is 120deg apart
[19:35:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but if you store the energy in the DC bank in the middle, it does not matter
[19:35:35] <zeeshan> when you work out the math , you see the conversion between single to 3 phase is
[19:35:36] <zeeshan> 1.73x.
[19:35:44] <LeelooMinai> I know that 3 phase has much better rms
[19:35:44] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: it wont keep up
[19:35:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: It will, if it's big enough
[19:36:07] <pcw_home> Yes but the DC filter needs to be _MUCH_ bigger on single phase
[19:36:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but it can be...
[19:36:34] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, use flexible conduit and hard wire for that application
[19:36:39] <pcw_home> not without ~doubling the cost
[19:36:41] <LeelooMinai> They just don't put those bigger components into those vfds
[19:36:44] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: can i use teck
[19:36:54] <Tom_itx> you have my permission
[19:36:58] <zeeshan> :)
[19:37:06] <zeeshan> i think itll be the easiest
[19:37:18] <LeelooMinai> pcw_home: Sure, but in some cases double the price would be worth it - for example much cheaper for me than paying $1000 or more for running 220V upstairs:/
[19:37:19] <zeeshan> i dont understand something
[19:37:27] <zeeshan> even if you had a large storage capacitor at the dc link
[19:37:31] <Tom_itx> i wired my compressor the 3rd way :)
[19:37:37] <zeeshan> hwo does that change the rate of current on the input side?
[19:37:45] <LeelooMinai> I ordered 0.8kW spindle yesterday anyways:(
[19:37:51] <LeelooMinai> Because what can I do.
[19:38:08] <pcw_home> buying a bigger VFD and dealing with the derating is probably the easiest
[19:38:23] <zeeshan> pcw_home: shes limited to 15A 115V
[19:38:25] <zeeshan> thats the problem
[19:38:41] <LeelooMinai> pcw_home: They don't have 110V VFDs larger than 0.75kW out
[19:38:49] <zeeshan> they dont for a very good reason :P
[19:39:10] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: DOn't confuse me again - if they wanted they would make it work with 1.5kW:)
[19:39:16] <zeeshan> they cant
[19:39:22] <LeelooMinai> They can
[19:39:47] <zeeshan> 15A/2 = 7.5A current avaiable when you go from 115V to 230V
[19:39:51] <LeelooMinai> 1500watt -> circuit voodoo -> 1500watt with some small loss:)
[19:40:11] <zeeshan> when you go from single phase 230V to three phase 230v , 7.5A / 1.73 = 4.33A
[19:40:14] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You know that your CPU uses 100A current?
[19:40:16] <zeeshan> available max
[19:40:29] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: nope
[19:40:33] <zeeshan> but i bet it doesnt do it at 115v.
[19:40:35] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: How do you think it happend if it comes from 15A socket? :)
[19:40:44] <zeeshan> cause its at a much lower voltage
[19:40:50] <zeeshan> you dont seem to understand simple math
[19:40:50] <Tom_itx> it doesn't _use_ it
[19:40:58] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, but that's power - I am not talking about taking 1500watt and creating 2000watt
[19:40:59] <pcw_home> Sure but theres probably no market for larger 110V VFDs
[19:41:28] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I tell you, I understand the math:)
[19:41:30] <zeeshan> pcw_home: what i'm saying is youre limited by the current output if your 15A 110V socket
[19:41:40] <zeeshan> and when you work out the math, it works out to 4.33A
[19:41:44] <zeeshan> 3 phase
[19:41:59] <zeeshan> which works out to a motor max size of 1Hp
[19:42:06] <zeeshan> if you had a 20A 115V socket, it'd be a diff story
[19:42:27] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Are you talking about what is possible in theory or in practice? :)
[19:42:32] <zeeshan> in practice.
[19:42:39] <zeeshan> i sized electrical systems that went backwards
[19:42:42] <zeeshan> three phase to single phase
[19:42:43] <PetefromTn_> Don't ya have a drier or oven on 220v?
[19:42:50] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: And I am talking about a VFD that could be made.
[19:43:01] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: you're limited by the current.
[19:43:02] <pcw_home> well ~1600 W is ~1600W so ~2HP max but about 1 HP realistically
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[19:43:15] <zeeshan> pcw_home: that's assuming youre not going from 115v to 220v
[19:43:20] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No you are not, not in the theoretical setup.
[19:43:28] <zeeshan> 220V single phase to 220 three phase
[19:43:31] <zeeshan> you can easily do 2hp.
[19:43:36] <pcw_home> could be made but not enough market
[19:43:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Do you agree that such VFD can be made or not? :)
[19:44:00] <zeeshan> they can be made
[19:44:04] <zeeshan> as long as you can draw more than 15A .
[19:44:12] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Not true...
[19:44:13] <zeeshan> if you had a 20A socket, you'd have no problem
[19:44:28] <JT-Shop> new parting tool leaves a much better finish on the back side of the part :)
[19:44:29] <zeeshan> ok believe what you want
[19:44:31] <pcw_home> since a 110V --> 230V motor VFD needs a capacitive voltage doubler thats a lot of the cost
[19:44:31] <zeeshan> i dont really care
[19:44:53] <zeeshan> some people just need to discover answers themself :P
[19:44:55] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You can get 1600watt from 110V socket, so in theory you can drive 1500watt mottor
[19:45:03] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: you're oversimplifying things
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[19:45:16] <zeeshan> Yea, if you were staying single phase.
[19:45:23] <zeeshan> and running a 110Vac motor.
[19:45:24] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: yes, it is significantly more complex to make a 1500W (out) inverter.
[19:45:26] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: No, any phase number
[19:45:32] <pcw_home> But 1500W motors need 2-3 x more for short times or they are not being used well
[19:45:40] <zeeshan> you're forgetting the fact
[19:45:45] <zeeshan> that that power is a result of a wave.
[19:45:50] <zeeshan> that wave has a certain duration
[19:46:00] <zeeshan> voltage wave and current wave
[19:46:04] <pcw_home> your outlet is ~1500W peak
[19:46:05] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: err - no.
[19:46:20] <zeeshan> you can't change this fact.
[19:46:24] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I am not forgeting anything:) I am just saying that if you want you can buffer energy between the two sides. Will not be maybe cheap, but you can do it.
[19:46:26] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: it's 1500W average. It's significantly more than this peak (for the several milliseconds around.
[19:46:40] <zeeshan> that when you go from a single phase wave to a 3 phase wave
[19:46:42] <zeeshan> current wave
[19:46:45] <zeeshan> the conversion is 1.73
[19:47:01] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: 'conversion' ?
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[19:47:18] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: When you buffer energy between two sides, all of thise current/wave things becomes irrelevant really.
[19:47:21] <pcw_home> no need to singe 3 phase conversions power is all that needed
[19:47:22] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: if you're talking about power factor/phase difference - it doesn't work like that
[19:47:31] <PetefromTn_> the answer is simple...just get some dilithium crystals and build a simple warp core power plant..
[19:48:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I think you base all of your statement on the assumption that you cannot overcome 15A max limit from the input side
[19:48:24] <_methods> just build yourself a small fusion reactor and none of this will matter
[19:48:29] <pcw_home> A well used 2 HP (1500W motor) may deliver 5KW for 30 seconds, the outlet wont
[19:48:35] <zeeshan> okay guys
[19:48:42] <zeeshan> forget all the math
[19:49:19] <SpeedEvil> There is 3000W max from a 1500W socket at wave peak.
[19:49:22] <LeelooMinai> Because, well 1 phase 110V is rms, but it's just one sine wave, but 3 phase uses 3 waves shifted by 120 deg and the sum of squares is constant at 1.5 I think the specified voltage
[19:49:23] <Tom_itx> zeeshan my question to you is:
[19:49:32] <pcw_home> so a 15 A 110 outlet is not really suitable for a 1500 W motor
[19:49:34] <Tom_itx> when are you ever gonna power your cnc up?
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[19:49:37] <PetefromTn_> just need a Mr. Fusion and some old bananna peels..
[19:49:38] <zeeshan> http://electricaltechnology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/electrical-requirements-httpelectricalt-echnology1.blogspot.com_..-motor-formula-input-breaker-size-copper-wire-size-for-single-phase-and-three-phase-motors-300x205.jpg
[19:49:41] <zeeshan> just look at that chart
[19:49:50] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: which is not actually relevant.
[19:49:51] <zeeshan> explain to my why the 1hp single phase 230V motor FLA
[19:49:52] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Irrelevant:)
[19:49:57] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: wire sizing makes many assumptions
[19:49:59] <zeeshan> is different from 3 phase 1hp
[19:50:06] <zeeshan> er
[19:50:07] <zeeshan> wrong chart
[19:50:30] <SpeedEvil> And startup currents change it dramatically.
[19:50:38] <zeeshan> http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/elctrical-motor-full-load-current-d_1499.html
[19:50:39] <zeeshan> here we go
[19:50:44] <zeeshan> these are FLA.
[19:50:49] <zeeshan> explain the difference please
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[19:51:15] <zeeshan> why does one say 8A ?
[19:51:16] -!- moorbo has quit []
[19:51:18] <zeeshan> and the other says 3.6A?
[19:51:24] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan: the tables are basically inventing shit.
[19:51:30] <zeeshan> they are not.
[19:51:36] <zeeshan> go read the FLA motor plate rasting
[19:51:41] <SpeedEvil> Single phase motor - 1hp - 16A at 115V
[19:51:43] <zeeshan> of a single phase 1hp motor vs 1hp 3 phase
[19:51:45] <zeeshan> i can take some pics for you
[19:51:51] <SpeedEvil> That is starting amps.
[19:51:54] <zeeshan> infact ill draw them both and measure the current
[19:52:08] <zeeshan> drive them
[19:52:25] <pcw_home> power factor (the VFD will have bad power factor also though in the opposite direction)
[19:52:33] <SpeedEvil> You are claiming that motors are 30% efficient
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[19:52:44] <pcw_home> power factor
[19:52:58] <LeelooMinai> Reading above I feel a bit better being confused by that VFD stuff before:)
[19:52:59] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: it can have power factor of unity - if it has a PFC stage first
[19:53:13] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: As it will be required to have in some markets
[19:53:23] <pcw_home> sure for a _LOT_ more money
[19:53:40] <SpeedEvil> quite
[19:53:51] <pcw_home> a bargain VFD will not have this
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[19:55:02] <LeelooMinai> Too bad I have not seen even non-bargain ones that can do better than that 0.75kW
[19:55:17] <LeelooMinai> What do I have to build it myself? :)
[19:55:38] <pcw_home> even at unity power factor ~800W is about the limit if you want to get any use of your motor (max ~2x torque for tough spots)
[19:55:45] <Tom_itx> just have 3phase brought into your house
[19:56:07] <LeelooMinai> Tom_itx: You have the "just" part wrong though:)
[19:56:23] <Tom_itx> i'm aware what's involved
[19:56:37] <LeelooMinai> Yes, not very practical in my case
[19:56:37] <PetefromTn_> drier/oven 220v bigass extension chord....
[19:56:47] * furrywolf doesn't even have 1ph supplied!
[19:56:57] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: Right, if it was not across the whole house from my CNC
[19:57:05] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, do you live in a cave?
[19:57:14] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf wishes she lives in a cave.
[19:57:15] <LeelooMinai> Antarctica I believe
[19:57:18] <PetefromTn_> mine was... thus the bigass extension chord.. worked fine even in our rental house.
[19:57:47] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: My mom would kill me if it was running across the house like that:p
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[19:58:05] <LeelooMinai> ^ You see, Antarctica internet connection
[19:59:30] <PetefromTn_> explain to her that you are building a BORG automaton recharging port and that it will be cleaning the entire house while she is at work....
[19:59:48] <LeelooMinai> She is like 65... not working any more:)
[20:00:14] <PetefromTn_> even better she can direct the cleaning and cooking operations!
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[20:00:29] <LeelooMinai> I don't think she can be fooled at this stage... She knows how all my ideas end - with messing her house up:)
[20:00:55] <Tom_itx> hide it under the carpet
[20:01:00] <PetefromTn_> don't you have a garage? Basement?
[20:01:16] <norias> hmm
[20:01:19] <norias> machining dynamics
[20:01:20] <LeelooMinai> No carpets:) And I have all the things in my room and I want it that way.
[20:02:07] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I should by a human-size capactor and store energy there first.
[20:02:07] <PetefromTn_> then save your pennies and have a 220v power receptacle brought into your room by a certified electrician. If what you have ALREADY done in your room is any indication of the future you will want it anywyaya LOL...
[20:02:35] <norias> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HRVER68/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=211189&creative=373489&creativeASIN=B00HRVER68&link_code=as3&tag=blue039-20
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[20:02:46] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: I am even scared to think how much that would cost:/
[20:02:57] <pcw_home> big flywheel...
[20:03:31] <LeelooMinai> Who would think that powering a silly cnc spindle can be so problematic...
[20:03:45] <LeelooMinai> It's more complicated than building the whole CNC:)
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[20:04:04] <PetefromTn_> get a stationary bike and hook your belt drive to the output?
[20:04:24] <PetefromTn_> pedal yer ass off!
[20:04:28] <LeelooMinai> I can generate maybe 1000watt in short burst
[20:04:42] <LeelooMinai> Not enough:)
[20:04:57] <Tom_itx> get 2 and invite your friend over
[20:05:05] <Rab> Might be more efficient to belt the bike straight to the spindle.
[20:05:10] <furrywolf> 1000W would put you into world-class cyclist territory, methinks.
[20:05:23] <Rab> Yeah, I think 100W is more typical.
[20:05:27] <LeelooMinai> furrywolf: Nah, not in short burst. The top sprinters can do 2000
[20:05:47] <LeelooMinai> 100watt can be done by average person easily
[20:06:04] <LeelooMinai> At long distance
[20:06:26] <zeeshan> subpanel:
http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/16251091345_498a51f72d_h.jpg
[20:06:28] <furrywolf> theoretical output > output after gearing, generating, etc losses.
[20:06:30] <LeelooMinai> Best cyclists can do 450-500 at one hour
[20:06:51] <zeeshan> location of machine in relation to subpanel :
http://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8668/16251092485_617a7233df_k.jpg
[20:07:07] <LeelooMinai> Trained ones can usually do 200watt + at one hour, 300watt+ if they are very good
[20:07:08] <zeeshan> what is the easiest way to power the machine up
[20:07:12] <zeeshan> solid conduit to machine?
[20:07:26] <zeeshan> (i still need to level the machine, so solid conduit might be a bad idea)
[20:07:27] <furrywolf> easiest? SOOW
[20:07:34] <zeeshan> soow can't be used according to code
[20:07:37] <zeeshan> i want it to be legal too :)
[20:07:44] <furrywolf> leeloo: what problem are you having that can't be solved by wire? heh
[20:07:47] <Tom_itx> you must have one wide ass lens on that camera
[20:07:55] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: pan photo
[20:07:58] <furrywolf> ... you must have weird codes where you are. you sure about that?
[20:08:02] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Look at your socket there - it's appaled at your job:)
[20:08:04] <zeeshan> furrywolf: i posted it
[20:08:30] <zeeshan> http://ecmweb.com/site-files/ecmweb.com/files/archive/ecmweb.com/nec/code-basics/006ecmCBfig2x.jpg
[20:08:41] <PetefromTn_> hey ya got a little RF31 cool!
[20:08:46] <zeeshan> i dont think that applies to teck wire though.
[20:09:03] <zeeshan> teck wire is expensive =[
[20:09:17] <furrywolf> that only says you have to have a plug.
[20:09:24] <zeeshan> yes
[20:09:34] <zeeshan> 80A plug is hard to find
[20:09:36] <zeeshan> 100A plug is expensive
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[20:09:45] <zeeshan> i know my thing might draw 70A at most
[20:09:52] <furrywolf> anderson 175A powerpoles are ul approved to 600V, and $5 each. :P
[20:09:53] <zeeshan> so running a 60A might be cutting it close
[20:09:57] <Tom_itx> zeeshan that isn't wired to code
[20:10:04] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: what isnt
[20:10:18] <Tom_itx> the receptacle
[20:10:22] <zeeshan> why
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[20:10:53] <Tom_itx> it should have a bare gnd wire going to the case and GND lug
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[20:11:55] <pcw_home> I dont like the expression on the outlet
[20:12:14] <Tom_itx> and the wire doesn't have the required slack inside the box
[20:12:47] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: im pretty sure i read you cant run bare for branch breakers
[20:12:49] <zeeshan> branch circuits i mean
[20:13:10] <PetefromTn_> yeah but you missed the absolute WORST mistake...
[20:13:23] <PetefromTn_> that damn Mazda has a CHEVY motor in it JEEZ!!!
[20:13:29] <zeeshan> haha
[20:13:30] <_methods> hahahhahaha
[20:13:34] <Tom_itx> that's an improvement
[20:13:45] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: would you run teck?
[20:13:48] <zeeshan> if it was your panel
[20:13:53] <zeeshan> what are the alternatives
[20:13:54] <Tom_itx> where?
[20:13:59] <zeeshan> between that sub to the machine
[20:14:00] <furrywolf> zee:
http://www.andersonpower.com/files.php?file=DS-PP120(9).pdf
[20:14:02] <_methods> not for the motor
[20:14:02] <CaptHindsight> the conduit isn't square to the box
[20:14:05] <Tom_itx> i would
[20:14:16] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[20:14:18] <Rab> zeeshan, why can't you use flexible conduit?
[20:14:31] <zeeshan> Rab: very expensive
[20:14:34] <zeeshan> its like a 100 bux for 50 feet
[20:14:40] <zeeshan> i dont even need 50 feet, i need like 15
[20:15:05] <zeeshan> thats why im trying to figure out the legal ways to do it and choose the cheapest :)
[20:16:01] <furrywolf> anderson plugs are usually used for battery cables, but they are ul approved, 600v rated, and available in touch-proof versions if you have a dickhead inspector...
[20:16:10] <furrywolf> they're also CHEAP.
[20:16:19] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, it looks fine actually. im just stalling to start working on mine
[20:16:54] <zeeshan> furrywolf: that is interesting
[20:16:57] <zeeshan> never seen this connector before
[20:17:28] <furrywolf> they're also hermaphroditic, which makes them useful for a lot of other things, like dc wiring, because you can connect any two plugs together and + and - still match up. :)
[20:17:31] <zeeshan> so far i think its between flex conduit + thhn
[20:17:33] <zeeshan> or teck
[20:17:42] <Rab> zeeshan, surely you have a Habitat for Humany or similar building surplus place around?
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[20:17:51] <zeeshan> Rab: maybe
[20:17:53] <zeeshan> they'd have it? :)
[20:17:58] <Rab> Maybe!
[20:18:09] <Rab> What dia would you need? 1"?
[20:18:14] <furrywolf> look for people scrapping RVs.
[20:18:17] <zeeshan> 1-1/4"
[20:18:17] <Tom_itx> zeeshan, they would typically run steel flex conduit to a machine
[20:18:30] <furrywolf> 4/4 in aluminum flexible conduit is popular for wiring RVs to the panel on a pole.
[20:19:15] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: better put some cardboard over those open panels until the covers go on, so drunken children could slip and fall into them and be electrocuted
[20:19:31] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: only way drunken children will learn
[20:19:37] <zeeshan> a little bit of 240v
[20:20:07] <zeeshan> its all covered
[20:20:13] <zeeshan> no kids in the house yet
[20:24:32] <norias> hmm
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[20:24:36] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: start working!
[20:24:41] <norias> wonder what sort of feedback can be observed
[20:24:56] <norias> from say spindle current or axis motor current
[20:25:10] <norias> that is different between smooth and chatter cutting
[20:25:19] <furrywolf> norias: monitoring for crashes/dull tools/broken tools is common, but I don't think you get much precision for anything else.
[20:26:09] <zeeshan> norias: only limited to those? :)
[20:26:16] <zeeshan> accelerometer?
[20:26:16] <pcw_home> sound card -->> FFT ==> chatter detect
[20:26:20] <zeeshan> yea!
[20:26:26] <norias> oh, good idea on that one
[20:26:35] <furrywolf> pcw: any word on a used 7I76E?
[20:27:04] <pcw_home> i forgot to look last week, will check on Monday
[20:27:05] <norias> doing research in machining
[20:27:10] <norias> has long been a dream of mine
[20:27:11] <furrywolf> k, thanks.
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[20:27:21] <zeeshan> norias: academic research?
[20:27:30] <norias> yeah, if i could get in to it
[20:27:39] <norias> i don't have academic credentials, though
[20:27:39] <furrywolf> you could mount a good accelerometer to the spindle, like zee suggested.
[20:27:53] <norias> that's not a bad idea
[20:28:10] <furrywolf> chatter will register pretty clearly I suspect.
[20:28:12] <norias> i bet you could actually get a decent idea of the harmonics in the system
[20:28:21] <norias> with piezo's mounted to the machine base
[20:28:30] <norias> like in the spindle housing
[20:28:33] <skunkworks> pcw_home: what about the 7i73? :)
[20:28:39] <zeeshan> norias: at one job in the past the cnc grinders had an accel that would monitor vibration of the machine
[20:28:46] <zeeshan> and compensate for it lol
[20:28:48] <norias> neat
[20:29:06] <pcw_home> Some machines use piezos for fast fine tool movement to tune out chatter
[20:29:22] <zeeshan> you can also pick up chatter on a load cell in a lathe for example
[20:29:38] <norias> all good points
[20:29:54] <norias> i bought a gage once
[20:29:57] <norias> with a ...
[20:30:14] <norias> basically a vise handle with a torque wrench built in to it
[20:30:26] <norias> and i'd calibrate the vise handle with the gage in the vise
[20:30:31] <LeelooMinai> How about some active dampener - that monitors the vibrations and vibrates to cancel them? :)
[20:30:33] <norias> and track that force with jobs
[20:30:39] <pcw_home> skunkworks: yeah at a high servo thread rate you can get this into HAL in real time with a A-D
[20:31:02] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: thats actually something a grad student presented 4 weeks ago in a seminar
[20:31:13] <LeelooMinai> Wasn't me!
[20:31:14] <zeeshan> they were machining thin parts that could not be rigidly mounted
[20:31:22] <pcw_home> there has been some work used piezos with resistors across for passive damping
[20:31:24] <zeeshan> they were using a magnetic field to add dampening
[20:31:25] <zeeshan> was cool
[20:31:28] <skunkworks> pcw_home: I meant - are they close to being in stock... :)
[20:31:28] <zeeshan> er eddy currents.
[20:31:32] <norias> well, neat
[20:32:34] <pcw_home> Oh no 7I73s for a while, we've been so busy with some larger OEM orders that little stuff is lagging
[20:33:39] <pcw_home> I think I may have one around from photog box, Ill check monday
[20:33:44] <LeelooMinai> I was wondering actually - you think if I wattached a rear wheel oil dambener to the cnc and to the wall, it would work well at dampening vibrations? Kind of McGyver cheap style:)
[20:33:54] <LeelooMinai> dampener*
[20:34:11] <Tom_itx> pcw_home you got alot to remember come monday :)
[20:34:18] <skunkworks> heh
[20:35:12] <LeelooMinai> I mean somethink like this, but not as expensive:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Rockshox-Kage-RC-Rear-Shock-Downhill-DH-Bike-Suspension-Damper-Unit-Black-/311085081526
[20:35:16] <LeelooMinai> thing*
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[20:35:55] <LeelooMinai> May be not good at high frequencies maybe, right?
[20:36:32] <norias> http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1607/2459/original.jpg
[20:37:20] <pcw_home> Yeah wrong impedance
[20:37:40] <LeelooMinai> I think they can be tuned a bit
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[20:38:20] <pcw_home> needs to be ~1000x stiffer and ~1000x smaller range of motion
[20:38:23] <Rab> LeelooMinai, since you don't actually want travel either, I'm not sure that gives you anything more than a solid strut.
[20:39:00] <LeelooMinai> Well, it has dampening action due to oil there
[20:41:12] <LeelooMinai> It's designed for large "swings", but probably works decent for small vibrations too - just not sure how small.
[20:41:26] <Rab> But any travel represents a loss of rigidity and wasted energy. I think piling sandbags around your mill would be more effective.
[20:41:42] <zeeshan> only way to do it
[20:41:44] <zeeshan> is test :)
[20:42:03] * LeelooMinai imagines puting sandbags in her bedroom
[20:42:09] <LeelooMinai> Maybe not...
[20:42:58] <LeelooMinai> Maybe some huge sprintgs with elastomer inside attached to the wall:)
[20:42:59] <Tom_itx> we filled a cavity with pennies once to mill the outside of it. it was free but the bank didn't think much of all the coolant on the pennies when we went to cash them back in
[20:43:03] <furrywolf> no sandbags in my bedroom. lol. it's small enough as it is!
[20:43:41] <LeelooMinai> I have actually sand inside my frame
[20:43:53] <LeelooMinai> DId not go to the vibration in practice part yet though
[20:44:03] <furrywolf> chinese quality sand casting? :P
[20:44:04] <norias> so
[20:44:07] <norias> i'm thinking
[20:44:24] <LeelooMinai> No, playground sand in aluminum tubes:)
[20:44:26] <norias> there should be some sort of vibration just due to the spindle / tool holder / tool combo
[20:44:39] <norias> that gives you information about the performance in a given material
[20:44:49] <norias> so, if the spindle was able to collect the right data
[20:44:50] <Nick001-shop> pcw_home - got some question for Hardinge cards - need to make sure 'm getting everything I need
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[20:45:07] <norias> you can spin the tool up, ramping through different rpm ranges
[20:45:19] <norias> and have a baseline to adjust against
[20:45:24] <norias> once the tool contacts material
[20:45:36] <furrywolf> I have plenty of silicone in my bedroom, it's probably good at dampening vibrations too... especially the vixskin, that stuff is squishy.
[20:46:27] * LeelooMinai decides it's better not ask details
[20:47:19] <furrywolf> lol
[20:48:56] <pcw_home> Nick001-shop: ask away, I'm here until SO drags me away to do shopping
[20:49:18] <Tom_itx> ugh
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[20:52:56] <Nick001-shop> got a list 7i49, 7137TA, 7i49HV, I think 7i29 to drive the 2 axis motors from the 107vdc power supply for the spindle.
[20:53:27] <Nick001-shop> is that all I need?
[20:54:05] <pcw_home> You dont have the original analog drives?
[20:54:43] <Nick001-shop> yes - I'm elimination the AB servo drives
[20:54:57] <Nick001-shop> eliminating
[20:55:43] <Nick001-shop> also the tachs have to go and I'm keeping the resolvers
[20:56:18] <pcw_home> Its more than a little awkward to use resolvers and a 7I29
[20:57:18] <pcw_home> you might be better off (assuming the drives are bad), replacing the drives with analog drives like AMC and retaining the tachometers
[20:59:43] <Nick001-shop> the tachs have always given me problems with getting oil in them and having to disassemble them to clean.
[21:02:08] <zeeshan> what kind of servos Nick001-shop
[21:02:32] <Nick001-shop> I remember being told I could run them in velocity mode with the resolvers and no tachs.
[21:02:45] <furrywolf> I know! I'll pay shipping cost for your complete servos, tachs, and drives, then you can replace all the parts with stuff you like.
[21:03:05] <zeeshan> lol
[21:03:35] <Nick001-shop> <zeeshan> AB servo drivers
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[21:04:01] <zeeshan> you cant replace the seal?
[21:04:19] <zeeshan> reason i ask is cause i have siemens servo drives
[21:04:26] <zeeshan> and the resolver looks like its sealed pretty good
[21:04:30] <zeeshan> hopefully i dont get that isue!
[21:04:34] <zeeshan> resolver = tachometr i mean
[21:04:58] <Nick001-shop> No seals - just a shielded bearing that a mist can get around
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[21:05:28] <pcw_home> probably not great for the motor brushes eaither
[21:05:40] <furrywolf> mill a plate with a seal recess in the middle and a couple holes to match some part of it with screws, press in seal, put on shaft?
[21:05:48] <Nick001-shop> never had a problem with a resolver on these machines
[21:06:59] <pcw_home> resolvers can run submerged in oil, they are just transformers
[21:10:01] <Nick001-shop> I guess that's why I haven't had a problem
[21:11:20] <pcw_home> in any case I would suggest using analog drives in velocity mode either with the
[21:11:21] <pcw_home> tachometer velocity feedback or feedback from a spare analog output channel
[21:11:23] <pcw_home> if you use simulated tachometer feedback with a spare output you will probably
[21:11:24] <pcw_home> need to bump the servo thread rate up to 4 KHz or so
[21:13:13] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 4KHz?! That's faster than the speed of light!!!
[21:14:47] <furrywolf> ... ?
[21:15:21] <Nick001-shop> And how do I actually do this - in machinist terms -)
[21:15:41] <furrywolf> Nick: first step, /ignore Jymmm
[21:16:06] <Jymmm> \ignore furrywolf
[21:16:10] <pcw_home> do what set the servo thread rate?
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[21:17:32] <Nick001-shop> I have one Hardinge going with pico boards and a resolver converter on the spindle but 2 encoders on the axis's
[21:18:59] <Nick001-shop> Want to try mesa cards because of the resolver issues
[21:20:15] <pcw_home> My only generic advice is its going to be easier to use some decent analog drives than 7I29s in this situation
[21:23:05] <rob_h> what machine are you converting
[21:23:46] <furrywolf> yay, shopmaster is sending me a new z timing belt, which will hopefully be the right length, unlike the last one.
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[21:24:15] <Nick001-shop> would the Pico servo amp qualify?
[21:25:29] <pcw_home> its not an analog velocity drive, I was thinking more like a AMC drive
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[21:26:12] <Nick001-shop> <rob_h> Hardinge CHNC with Aleen Bradley controls
[21:27:30] <rob_h> aah nice, nice simple machine todo
[21:27:55] <rob_h> ours had the crappy simens 810T but no more :)
[21:28:11] <Nick001-shop> How come the Pico drive works - Will AMC drives take the 107 vdc?
[21:28:25] <bobo_> nick why not use filtered air for presserizing motor end cap , keep out oil etc. ?
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[21:29:52] <Nick001-shop> <bobo_> The X axis has an air motor exhaust inside the enclosures
[21:30:29] <Nick001-shop> and an air cushion for the turret stop
[21:30:31] <pcw_home> most any drive will work I'm just saying what I think is cleanest implementation with our cards
[21:31:56] <rob_h> why not just go AC servos?
[21:32:11] <pcw_home> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMC-ADVANCED-MOTION-CONTROLS-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-25A20T-LF3-/381113369212?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58bc20827c
[21:32:11] <Nick001-shop> Need to have something to do the voltage
[21:32:12] <pcw_home> a bargain!
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[21:32:28] <zeeshan> so cheappp
[21:32:58] <pcw_home> that is a real bargain...
[21:32:59] <bobo_> nick air motor hooked to resolver ?
[21:33:07] <Tom_itx> pcw_home, would that work for a spindle control on a DC brushed motor?
[21:33:14] <pcw_home> Yes
[21:33:16] <Tom_itx> cool
[21:33:24] <pcw_home> thats 250V 20A
[21:33:37] <Tom_itx> aww crap, i need 90v
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[21:33:53] <Tom_itx> they reduce mains down in the current control
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[21:33:59] <pcw_home> 250V _max_
[21:34:08] <Tom_itx> i'd still need a source
[21:34:13] <Tom_itx> transformer or something
[21:34:20] <pcw_home> Yeah
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[21:35:25] <rob_h> i have a DC servo motor 52V 90amp stall love find a AMC drive for them
[21:35:38] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: they make a version w/ a builtin supply..
[21:35:56] <pcw_home> sorry 25A peak 200V
[21:35:58] <Tom_itx> once i get the control back up i'll finish my spindle encoder update and i'll be one step closer to rigid tapping
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[21:36:10] <Tom_itx> just need to find a reverse drive for the spindle
[21:36:13] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: brushed spindle?
[21:36:25] <Tom_itx> yes 90v DC brushed motor
[21:36:31] <Tom_itx> low amps
[21:36:47] <zeeshan> B25A20AC similar to what i have
[21:36:50] <zeeshan> but thats a massive drive lol
[21:36:59] <zeeshan> thats the smallest one i see with ac ps built in
[21:37:19] <Tom_itx> that says brushless
[21:37:39] <zeeshan> will drive both brushless and brush
[21:37:46] <zeeshan> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/support/an-007.pdf
[21:38:04] <zeeshan> i tested them on my brush drives
[21:38:12] <zeeshan> brush motors i mean
[21:38:13] <Tom_itx> i'm not spending $500 on it
[21:38:17] <zeeshan> lol
[21:38:24] <zeeshan> i wouldnt suggest it if it was 500
[21:38:37] <Tom_itx> https://www.servo2go.com/product.php?ID=100482
[21:38:55] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-brushless-PWM-servo-amplifier-BE25A20ACQ-INV-/221658626927?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339be23b6f
[21:38:57] <zeeshan> i got 5 for 200
[21:39:05] <Tom_itx> send me one
[21:39:09] <zeeshan> no!
[21:39:24] <zeeshan> 5 axis :D
[21:39:35] <zeeshan> they come up for 40 bux sometimes
[21:39:41] <Tom_itx> what about brake?
[21:39:54] <zeeshan> the be25a20ac has internal brake
[21:40:05] <zeeshan> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be25a20ac.pdf
[21:40:11] <zeeshan> "Built-in brake/shunt regulator '
[21:40:16] <zeeshan> "Internal brake/shunt resistor"
[21:40:43] <zeeshan> im sure there are other drives, but after ssi told me about these
[21:40:48] <zeeshan> i couldnt find any others that were cheap
[21:40:52] <zeeshan> and could handle all sorts of servos
[21:41:13] <pcw_home> What i am suggesting to Nick001-shop is that that drive on Ebay is a near drop-in replacement for his AB drives and will work well with the mesa card set
[21:42:02] <pcw_home> (since he already has the DC supply)
[21:43:09] <pcw_home> and its hard to beat $29 BIN (not sure if they will be scummy about combining shipping)
[21:44:14] <Nick001-shop> What voltage does this take? I have 107VDC and that datasheet says AC voltage
[21:44:43] <pcw_home> 200V max
[21:45:14] <pcw_home> AMC has the data sheet
[21:46:34] <pcw_home> actually 40 to 190 VDC
[21:47:05] <pcw_home> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/25a20.pdf
[21:47:11] <Tom_itx> pcw_home do you remember the ratio going from AC to DC volts?
[21:47:43] <pcw_home> with capacitor input filter is sqrt(2) X RMS
[21:48:17] <Nick001-shop> I guess thats the one - I'll email the seller and see if he'll ship on my UPS account
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[21:52:38] <pcw_home> so 120vac --> about 165V DC after diode drops and misc losses
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[21:59:04] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:00:48] <Nick001-shop> Using the AMC drive - does that eliminate the need for the 7i29 card?
[22:09:10] <Nick001-shop> <pcw_home> BTW - data sheet says tach feedback - how will that be eliminated - or does the 7i49HV card take care of that?
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[22:16:30] <pcw_home> Yes, the AMC drive replaces 1/2 of a 7I29 and yes you can use a spare analog channel to simulate a tachometer
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[22:19:52] <Nick001-shop> How about the rest of the cads I think I need - 7i49, 7i37TA, and 7i49 HV
[22:20:35] <Nick001-shop> do I need a 5i20 thrown in there?
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[22:21:12] <Nick001-shop> cards
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[22:41:10] <bobo_> Tom_itx: what machine are you working on?
[22:43:52] <Tom_itx> a little sherline mill
[22:44:08] <bobo_> neat
[22:45:13] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[22:45:15] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/timing_pulley_index.php
[22:45:24] <Tom_itx> some of what i've been doing to it
[22:46:23] <bobo_> you have been busy
[22:47:19] <Tom_itx> it's like putting a bigblock chevy in a pinto
[22:48:52] <furrywolf> worst I've seen is a sbc in a metro.
[22:48:56] <bobo_> I was sorry to hear of the passing of "Mr. Sherline"
[22:49:57] <bobo_> another worth while person gone
[22:51:48] <bobo_> how about the big block chev push snow blower?
[22:53:27] <furrywolf> I need to find a good piece of metal to mount my power supply to.
[22:53:30] <furrywolf> I wish I had a brake.
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[22:54:15] <furrywolf> a piece of sheet aluminum with an l bend, with one side about 7"x3" and the other 3x3"...
[22:54:22] <furrywolf> 7"x3"
[22:54:27] <furrywolf> grrr
[22:54:30] <furrywolf> the other 7"x7"
[22:54:38] * furrywolf should stay off irc while tired
[22:55:42] <furrywolf> i.e. cut a 7" x 10" piece, stick it 3" in the brake, and bend 90 degrees. except the only brake I have is harbor freight's $20 one, which is worthless.
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[22:57:35] <furrywolf> http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-bending-brake-39103.html works great if you need to bend tinfoil, sloppily!
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[22:58:15] <furrywolf> "The bending brake’s design allows for a full 90º capacity in steel as thick as and can handle stock up to 18 in. wide." LOL! they removed the numbers for how thick it could bend, poorly.
[22:58:39] <furrywolf> both of the places that say the thickness it can bend are missing
[22:58:46] <norias> lol
[22:59:00] <norias> i had one in a shop i worked at
[22:59:03] <norias> broke it pretty quick
[22:59:14] <norias> someone brazed it back together
[22:59:18] <norias> broke again
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[23:00:55] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: 2*4, jeep
[23:00:57] <SpeedEvil> = brake
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[23:02:21] <furrywolf> that won't make neet bends on a 3" wide piece of aluminum
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[23:03:12] <furrywolf> also, it's raining outside.
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[23:06:39] <Tom_itx> drive it in your front room then
[23:07:18] <furrywolf> it'd go through the floor.
[23:08:30] <furrywolf> using non-shielded wire between the power supply and the stepper drivers won't be a problem, right?
[23:08:46] <Tom_itx> it could be
[23:09:10] <Tom_itx> i went shielded all the way
[23:09:20] <furrywolf> not between drivers and motors, just power supply and drivers... and I have some nice red-black zip cord...
[23:12:10] <Tom_itx> you could try it
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[23:41:31] alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[23:41:41] <alex_joni> Jymmm: no, an atmega microcontroller
[23:42:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Would an arduino work?
[23:42:15] <alex_joni> sure
[23:42:22] <alex_joni> I think (although I never used one)
[23:42:46] <alex_joni> but an encoder turned by hand should be slow enough
[23:42:58] <Jymmm> alex_joni: is your atmel code available?
[23:43:10] <alex_joni> huh.. I wonder if I still have it
[23:43:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: dont worry about it, not a biggy
[23:43:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni: What did you use for a PA ?
[23:43:47] <Jymmm> amp
[23:43:50] <Jymmm> audio
[23:44:13] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/projects/radio
[23:44:37] <alex_joni> I used one of those cheap usb/audio cards
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[23:44:46] <alex_joni> then connected some speakers to it
[23:44:53] <alex_joni> nothing beyond that
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[23:45:16] <Jymmm> oh so not very loud at all then
[23:46:13] <alex_joni> no.. regular amplified speakers (5$ or so)
[23:46:21] <zeeshan> something is up with my wiring for my lubricator
[23:46:28] <alex_joni> I doubt I would build one today :)
[23:46:31] <zeeshan> the resistance check doesnt make sense at the connector
[23:46:32] <Jymmm> oh powered speakers, yeah, ok YUCK =)
[23:46:51] <alex_joni> I mean the radio..
[23:46:55] <Jymmm> I have some JBL satellite speakers I'd wan tto use
[23:47:02] <alex_joni> simpler to get an older cellphone and just use that
[23:47:06] -!- [cube] has quit []
[23:47:14] <alex_joni> has wifi/streaming/interface, etc
[23:48:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni: True, I might use a mechless car stereo for the amp
[23:48:20] <Jymmm> 45W
[23:49:10] <alex_joni> yup
[23:49:13] <furrywolf> 99.9% of car stereos are ~18W, not 40, 45, 50, 60...
[23:49:17] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Hmmm, those cheap tablets might work too, 7" screen
[23:49:24] <alex_joni> right
[23:49:34] <alex_joni> and less hassle
[23:49:56] <Jymmm> basically you wouldn't do it again is what you're saying =)
[23:50:10] <furrywolf> anything greater than (12/sqrt(2))^2/4 is marketing. :P
[23:51:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni: On sale for $20 USD and USB power too
http://www.frys.com/product/7172722?site=sa:adpages%20page:P6_FRI%20date:010915
[23:52:23] <Jymmm> alex_joni: gut that sucker...
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxMjAw/z/pAMAAMXQ74JTWHEJ/$_3.jpg
[23:56:16] <zeeshan> http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7561/15208336383_d3278eb644_b.jpg
[23:56:19] <zeeshan> can someone tell me
[23:56:29] <zeeshan> since in the main diagram 6 & 7 are shorted
[23:56:43] <zeeshan> that means its using spannung I (wiring diagram 1)
[23:56:43] <zeeshan> ?
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[23:57:36] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Yes, 220VAC is 6/7 are shorted
[23:57:46] <Jymmm> if*
[23:57:49] <zeeshan> whats confusing is what is l1 and l2?
[23:57:56] <zeeshan> 5 has a "N" under it
[23:58:09] <Jymmm> 11 12 ?
[23:58:24] <zeeshan> mains line 1 and mains line 2
[23:58:28] <zeeshan> for 220v
[23:58:38] <Jymmm> ?
[23:58:45] <zeeshan> the only thing that makes sense is i hook power up to pin 4 and pin 5
[23:59:53] <Jymmm> if that cord coming in is mians power cable, looks like it's currently ired to 1 and 3
