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[00:00:38] <furrywolf> hrmm, apparantly they've remastered all the old Siouxsie albums... I should find them...
[00:00:44] * furrywolf is getting distracted from capacitors
[00:00:58] * furrywolf has all the old siouxsie on original vinyl!
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[00:03:14] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: dont get distracted
[00:04:06] <furrywolf> lol
[00:04:33] <zeeshan|2> theoretical question of the day, since multiple neighbours are connected together at the transformer neutral, and lets say the neutral isn't tied to the ground at the transformer (someone stole the wire), and then your neighbours ground is also not connected to the neutral bus
[00:04:37] <furrywolf> but playing music on my living room stereo tends to do that...
[00:04:55] <zeeshan|2> and you're trying to install a main panel and about to join the neutral bus and ground together in a new installation
[00:05:07] <zeeshan|2> you could get shocked by touching the neutral right? =)
[00:05:19] <furrywolf> my living room is maybe 18x20ft, and has a pair of 16" 5-way speakers, 14" 6-way speakers, and 12" 4-way speakers stacked up... it's very good at being distracting! (and annoying neighbors)
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[00:05:33] <furrywolf> zeeshan: ALL power should be off if you're doing wiring in the panel.
[00:05:38] <zeeshan|2> furry i know.
[00:05:40] <zeeshan|2> power is off
[00:05:44] <zeeshan|2> i still think you can get shocked
[00:06:01] <zeeshan|2> if your neighbour has a a short on their side
[00:06:11] <zeeshan|2> current travels from them, to your neutral wire.
[00:06:18] <furrywolf> as in, if the power company's neutral was hot? it shouldn't be.
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[00:06:36] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: i know it can be
[00:06:44] <zeeshan|2> we used to sell breakers that disconnected neutral too
[00:06:45] <furrywolf> connect the wire to ground first, then to neutral, so at no point you're touching an ungrounded wire. :P
[00:06:48] <witnit_> put it another ground rod?
[00:06:55] <zeeshan|2> people that have generators that feed to their panel spit current out
[00:07:21] <zeeshan|2> furrywolf: yea that is what i would do , and use insulated tools
[00:07:25] <furrywolf> I was doing some work at a trailer once, and the entire trailer was hot... ground rod and all. the ground rod was hot both electrically and thermally!
[00:07:26] <andypugh> “Redefining success”
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LBoi5b4CsBt_EFhiK0EPftMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:07:50] <furrywolf> 120V from ground rod to not-nearby ground.
[00:07:53] <witnit_> oh wow, hot groundrod
[00:07:59] <furrywolf> and wet ground
[00:08:03] <witnit_> O.o
[00:08:08] <zeeshan|2> nice andypugh!
[00:08:09] <_methods> andypugh: spinning?
[00:08:22] <andypugh> That’s the pile of rejected rejects.
[00:08:29] <furrywolf> you could measure it just sticking your meter probe in the dirt...
[00:09:54] <andypugh> I have two complete lamps that I _could_ use, in that at least the parts stay in one piece, but I need to work on the beads.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DsniVYc9oQ4uzdnb2nNhcdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:10:09] <furrywolf> I should go grab my klipshs and jbls from storage... then I can really piss the neighbors off. :)
[00:10:13] <furrywolf> klipschs
[00:10:24] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: you need to clean your shop
[00:10:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[00:10:31] <_methods> andypugh: i like your little drill bit bending jig
[00:10:46] <zeeshan|2> that looks awesome
[00:11:12] <witnit_> andypugh great work
[00:11:36] <andypugh> drill-bit bending jig?
[00:11:37] * furrywolf is still waiting for the link to load, to see what people are talking about
[00:11:53] <witnit> dialup?
[00:11:55] <andypugh> Ah, the contact bending jig using drill-bits as rods?
[00:12:19] <_methods> yeah
[00:12:20] <_methods> heheh
[00:12:36] <_methods> i never thought to just use drill bits for that
[00:12:43] <_methods> i'm always lookin for dowel pins or something
[00:12:50] <_methods> i could just use drill bits
[00:12:57] <_methods> or mold pins
[00:13:03] <furrywolf> witnit: even better. 3G!
[00:13:04] <furrywolf> dialup at least is reliable.
[00:13:38] <furrywolf> most of the problem is everything to do with google loads ten times more javascript than content
[00:13:49] <furrywolf> and for some reason people link to their crap, rather than directly to images...
[00:14:37] <furrywolf> I got the second one to load... a pair of lights?
[00:14:39] <Tom_itx> andypugh, how did you end up getting the lip right?
[00:15:03] <andypugh> furrywolf: Yes.
[00:15:12] <furrywolf> grrrrr. I should just never go to any google links, ever. their crap javascript fails miserably if parts don't load quickly, so I have to repeatedly reload the pages trying to get them to work as more of it is cached...
[00:15:30] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I got a big bit of tube to push against the lip from the tailstock to back it up.
[00:15:41] <Tom_itx> looks nice
[00:16:42] <andypugh> furrywolf: I wish I knew how to link to the picasa photos. If you look the links are “picasaweb” but that isn’t what you get when you click. Very annoying.
[00:16:58] <furrywolf> are those turned or stamped?
[00:17:06] <Tom_itx> he turned them
[00:17:16] <_methods> spun
[00:18:20] <andypugh> Spun from sheet. If you scroll back through the photos you can see the process (sort of)
[00:18:33] <_methods> one of those dying arts anymore
[00:18:42] <furrywolf> excellent work, then
[00:19:54] <andypugh> furrywolf: Does this link work for you?
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LBoi5b4CsBt_EFhiK0EPftMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?noredirect=1
[00:20:04] <andypugh> (I manually added “noredirect”)
[00:20:18] <andypugh> No, bother…
[00:21:12] <andypugh> Try again with the other URL..
https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/NerACar#6102126377838302450?noredirect=1
[00:21:42] <witnit> I wonder why they use all those extra scripts
[00:21:42] <andypugh> Aha! No redirect. But no photo either.
[00:22:29] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/NerACar?noredirect=1#6102126377838302450
[00:22:44] <andypugh> Aha! The last one works.
[00:23:14] <witnit> all the simple websites seems to work, ebay, craigslist, imgur, reddit, its the fancy ones i usually avoid
[00:23:30] <witnit> deviantart is good
[00:23:51] <furrywolf> ebay is NOT simply. ebay has some of the worst coding I've ever seen, anywhere.
[00:23:52] <furrywolf> simple
[00:24:04] <witnit> it loads when you click
[00:24:18] <witnit> which is key
[00:24:31] <witnit> regardless of the rest of their code hahah
[00:24:38] <archivist> ebay has terrible loading times and abusive tracking from all the adverts
[00:25:01] <witnit> i never had any issues with loading, but i use rss feeds for my ebaying
[00:25:07] <witnit> so i guess thats different
[00:25:23] <furrywolf> they have inexplicably useless things like making page elements 10000px then resizing them with javascript, so they break rendering horribly if the javascript doesn't load...
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[00:25:43] <witnit> strange
[00:26:00] <witnit> they did do some weird redierection of searches
[00:26:21] <archivist> photobucket has some terrible stupididty too I get a white screen
[00:26:37] <furrywolf> most of their search url weirdness is to aid in spamming google
[00:29:40] <archivist> switch off 3rd party cookies, I counted around 200 on one fleabay page
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[00:31:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: how is google images treating you
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[00:35:54] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: I have found how to stop it redirecting, which is a start.
[00:36:01] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[00:36:16] <zeeshan|2> i guess every image host has their nuisance
[00:36:40] <_methods> did you try linking to them through google+
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[00:37:49] <andypugh> I was trying to _avoid_ google+
[00:37:52] <_methods> ah
[00:38:01] <zeeshan|2> why do peoplke hate google plus?
[00:38:01] <_methods> yeah it's pretty much reviled by all
[00:38:10] <andypugh> The last version of the URL stays at Picasa.
[00:38:11] <zeeshan|2> cause others cant see your content unless theyre signed up?
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[00:38:51] <andypugh> I actually like G+ more than Facebook. Facebook baffles me.
[00:39:37] <_methods> yeah
[00:39:46] <_methods> facebook is a steaming pile o' poo
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[00:40:31] <witnit_> I never registered on the linuxcnc forums because the requirements were too demanding :/
[00:40:47] <andypugh> They send me emails saying thinfgs like “two new pokes since your last visit”. As far as I can tell there is no way to see what a poke is, or who did it.
[00:41:01] <_methods> i haven't either but it's mainly because the site makes my brain bleed
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[00:41:17] <andypugh> witnit_: Sorry about that, but one day I had 2000 spammers to deal with, so we had to make it harder.
[00:41:30] <witnit_> understndable
[00:41:41] <witnit_> I was just like city, stae country, nope
[00:42:34] <Jymmm> _methods: Oh, is THAT why my amazon order says "share on facebook"
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[00:53:04] <witnit_> more and more i am feeling like google is becoming to the internet what governing bodies are to societies
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[00:54:07] <archivist> I hate browsing ebay and then getting a targeted email from amazon
[00:54:21] <witnit_> targeted ads are very disturbing
[00:54:38] <witnit_> i thought about switch to some tor style browsing system
[00:55:05] <archivist> switch off all 3rd party cookies to stop the tracking
[00:55:43] <witnit_> yeah but im sure they still have a good profiling system for target ads based on ip records
[00:55:58] <mozmck> No, they can track now through invisible images or something like that.
[00:56:16] <witnit_> go on
[00:56:27] <mozmck> I saw an article on it a while back and several ad companies are using that method
[00:56:39] <mozmck> I can't remember offhand where I saw that now.
[00:56:49] <archivist> little 1x1 pixel images
[00:57:12] <witnit_> my biggest concern is with tracking voice and mouse movements
[00:57:13] <mozmck> archivist: you saw that too?
[00:57:31] <archivist> mozmck, I review page code and see them :)
[00:57:47] <mozmck> Ah, I see.
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[00:58:46] <mozmck> I think if you block *everything* from all the ad companies it might help, but sites are increasingly using ad server to serve their content
[00:58:55] <witnit_> WOW so tricky
[00:59:01] <archivist> do a pagespeed(or similar) test on a suspect page/site see what resources get loaded
[00:59:30] <witnit_> they can tell exactly when you read their email because the image ports back to their server and logs the time when you opened the "image"
[00:59:38] <archivist> good site will only be a few, bad will have hundreds
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[00:59:57] <mozmck> I use adblock plus and ghostery, and some sites I have to whitelist on ghostery to view any content.
[01:00:01] <eeriegeek> You can turn off cross site image loading in some browsers.
[01:00:16] <mozmck> which ones?
[01:00:36] <eeriegeek> firefox and the thuderbird mail reader at least
[01:00:38] <mozmck> I don't trust Chrome for anything (or anything else google)
[01:00:57] <witnit_> sames mozmck
[01:01:04] <mozmck> interesting. I think I do that in thunderbird, but didn't know firefox would do it.
[01:01:39] <eeriegeek> I used to be a config checkbox, but now you have to find it somewhere in the about:config stuff
[01:01:47] <mozmck> ah, I see.
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[01:02:49] <eeriegeek> er, *it
[01:03:02] <eeriegeek> I was never a config checkbox
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[01:05:48] <witnit_> mozmck promise to be careful working on that config file
[01:06:06] <mozmck> oh?
[01:06:36] <witnit_> when you type "about:config" in the browser
[01:06:48] <mozmck> I hear you can break things if you let your cat modify it
[01:07:18] <witnit_> they must walk across they keyboard three times minumum before lying down on it
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[04:34:42] <Jymmm> What's special (if any) about 308-16?
[04:35:58] <Jymmm> and can I harden ss welding rods by chance?
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[04:36:58] <zeeshan> whats -16?
[04:37:02] <zeeshan> 308 i know
[04:37:32] <Jymmm> I guess it's like 18-8
[04:37:57] <zeeshan> then its not 308
[04:38:20] <Jymmm> http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Consumables/Pages/product.aspx?product=Products_Consumable_StainlessNickelandHighAlloy-Excalibur-Excalibur308308H-16%28LincolnElectric%29
[04:38:31] <Jymmm> 308-16
[04:38:47] <zeeshan> i dont know what that 16 is for
[04:38:58] <zeeshan> but in tig, i use 308L for welding 304 stainless
[04:39:59] <Jymmm> says so here too
http://www.airgas.com/product/Welding-Products/Filler-Metal/Stick-Electrode-%28SMAW%29/Stick-Electrode---Stainless-Steel/p/HAR3081670
[04:40:11] <zeeshan> its gotta be something to do with the flux
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[04:40:46] <Jymmm> http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Pages/stainless-steel-electrodes.aspx
[04:42:21] <Jymmm> A “16” electrode has a titania or rutile based coating and can be used with both DC and AC polarity.
[04:42:53] <Jymmm> Nice writeup
[04:43:21] <Jymmm> and now we know what L and H are too =)
[04:43:34] <zeeshan> l and h i knew
[04:43:39] <zeeshan> but only when its like 308L or 308H
[04:43:42] <zeeshan> the -16 threw me off
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[04:44:40] <Jymmm> It means you can play back in black when welding =)
[04:45:15] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA
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[05:04:12] <DGMurdockIII> what good cam software someonme ccan use for first ti me use a cnc mechine
[05:05:29] <cradek> the first time you use a cnc machine you should write some very simple gcode by hand and run it
[05:06:03] <XXCoder> really to work on mine lol
[05:08:56] <DGMurdockIII> even if im not using linuxcnc
[05:09:14] <cradek> yep
[05:09:38] <DGMurdockIII> iv have been doing 3d printing
[05:09:41] <witnit_> it has a nice simulator so you can see he effects of your code
[05:09:47] <witnit_> the
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[05:11:03] <DGMurdockIII> what has a nice simulator so you can see he effects of your code
[05:11:29] <witnit_> sorry i didnt ralize you used the word "cam"
[05:11:35] <XXCoder> cncsimilatot
[05:11:41] <XXCoder> cncsimulator
[05:11:54] <XXCoder> its free with bit annoying "fill ups" each year
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[05:25:03] <DGMurdockIII> http://cncsimulator.info/ this?
[05:25:18] <XXCoder> yeah
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[05:41:31] <[cube]> ok got the lathe inside and bunch of weight off it
[05:41:34] <[cube]> tmrw have to get it down the stairs
[05:41:37] <[cube]> http://imgur.com/a/SeRdr
[05:42:54] <Jymmm> flattened large cardboard box and some rope
[05:43:07] <[cube]> hmmm
[05:43:27] <[cube]> not a bad idea
[05:43:45] <Jymmm> and two boxes slide nicely on top of each other
[05:43:45] <[cube]> was thinking of bolt it down to two 2x4s
[05:43:47] <[cube]> like 'skis'
[05:44:04] <[cube]> hm
[05:44:05] <Jymmm> but you have carpet, so no need for the 2nd box
[05:44:30] <[cube]> i feel like it would crush right through the box
[05:44:39] <Jymmm> I always carry two flat boxes in the back of the suv, makes loading heavy stff easy
[05:44:57] <[cube]> the reason i say that, is it 'fell' through the plywood crate it came in
[05:44:57] <Jymmm> ok, playwood then cardboard
[05:44:59] <[cube]> while movie it
[05:45:02] <[cube]> *moving
[05:45:34] <[cube]> yeah cardboards not a bad idea
[05:45:43] <[cube]> i have some sheets of masonite too
[05:46:05] <Jymmm> and the weigth.... you'll need a couple of bodies to stop it from flying down the stairs
[05:46:13] <[cube]> yea
[05:46:28] <[cube]> also not afraid of screwing a pullet into the floor
[05:46:31] <[cube]> through the carpet
[05:46:33] <Jymmm> no masonite, just large carboard box, just enough friction
[05:46:37] <[cube]> in the corners, should be okay
[05:46:46] <[cube]> *pulley
[05:47:33] <Jymmm> do you have a carabiner?
[05:47:46] <[cube]> yep
[05:47:50] <[cube]> i have a come a long
[05:47:58] <[cube]> that i used to get it INside
[05:48:03] <[cube]> up a flight of 10 or so stairs
[05:48:08] <Jymmm> Then use a munter hitch or evena double munter hitch
[05:48:29] <Jymmm> climbing rated carabiner
[05:48:32] <Jymmm> locking
[05:48:42] <[cube]> the come a long has straps that should work
[05:49:02] <[cube]> i guess i'll just reverse the process of getting it up stairs
[05:49:30] <[cube]> http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m2zmSS4IrN7-7uSWvKErKuQ.jpg
[05:49:56] <[cube]> also have a winch....
[05:50:35] <Jymmm> but do you have enough hands to control all that and prevent the lathe from going sideways? lol
[05:50:56] <[cube]> heh I do not :)
[05:51:00] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOf1Yzu_OS0
[05:51:04] <[cube]> i'll have to call in some favors, for sure
[05:51:24] <[cube]> hmm nice
[05:52:16] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUZbIi8XJjM
[05:52:17] <[cube]> i'd have to be pretty confident in the pivot point at the top of the stairs :)
[05:52:20] <Jymmm> another example
[05:52:32] <Jymmm> but you can do fine control
[05:52:52] <Jymmm> and just lock off the line if you need to pause
[05:53:11] <[cube]> yeah very cool
[05:53:13] <[cube]> thx
[05:53:42] <Jymmm> test before loading
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[06:21:23] <norias> whoa
[06:35:02] <norias> The President of the United States of America announced today
[06:35:13] <norias> that he doesn't have to seek relection
[06:35:27] <norias> so he's just gonna do and say whatever he wants to.
[06:36:10] <norias> Deal with it, people.
[06:36:49] <witnit> Probably what needed done in the first place
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[06:37:14] <norias> eh. Could be.
[06:39:08] <XXCoder> nothing more powerful than no reelection president
[06:39:17] <XXCoder> hope he does good.
[06:39:33] <norias> doubt it
[06:39:38] <witnit> not to be negative but consider the long lines at mcdonalds, people dont want to hear about dieting and eating healthy, even though its whats best
[06:39:39] <XXCoder> why?
[06:39:50] <norias> i think the best thing an end of term president can do
[06:39:57] <norias> is not screw too much stuff up
[06:40:13] <witnit> i dont think screwing things up is what he had in mind
[06:40:25] <norias> yeah... no one ever has it mind
[06:40:35] <norias> but it still seems to happen
[06:40:42] <witnit> being idle is the biggest screw up anyone can make
[06:40:54] <witnit> imo
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[06:41:23] <XXCoder> tell that to congress
[06:41:29] <XXCoder> freaking CON gress
[06:41:30] <norias> hmmm
[06:41:33] <witnit> my point exactly
[06:41:36] <XXCoder> I want progress not congress
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[06:41:50] <norias> what about sexual congress?
[06:42:01] <XXCoder> lol
[06:42:15] <norias> not that i'm offering
[06:42:18] <norias> just saying
[06:42:19] <norias> hey
[06:42:23] <norias> congress isn't always bad
[06:42:41] <XXCoder> yeah but current sure is
[06:42:53] <norias> i ...
[06:42:57] <norias> i don't honestly know
[06:43:05] <witnit> i can say the same
[06:43:08] <norias> i'm not even sure how to measure that
[06:43:08] <XXCoder> know what they did on first day?
[06:43:13] <XXCoder> try to deny women rights
[06:43:27] <norias> ok, this should be interesting
[06:43:28] <norias> how?
[06:43:36] <witnit> yes do tell hahaha
[06:43:52] <XXCoder> actually no. I dont like discussing political things.
[06:43:58] <witnit> understandable
[06:44:00] <XXCoder> im awful on that heh
[06:44:07] <witnit> this is not the place for it :)
[06:44:14] <norias> oh, it's not?
[06:44:15] <norias> sorry.
[06:44:23] <witnit> not really, even though i enjoy it
[06:44:33] <norias> i'll keep that in mind
[06:44:44] <witnit> i think most of the people in here would assume keep hot button topics to a minimum
[06:44:54] <witnit> like racial jokes, i love them but do not share so much :(
[06:45:05] <norias> this has been one of the best / most useful irc chans i've been on in a while
[06:45:12] <norias> so, i'd rather not be the bad guy
[06:45:19] <norias> at least not here
[06:45:36] <norias> :)
[06:46:02] <witnit> usually very straightforward help and lots of "congratulations on getting to that next point in your project" type stuff :)
[06:46:26] <unfy> some folks will do politics here. i tend to agree - it's not the place for it.
[06:46:31] <norias> right on
[06:47:16] <XXCoder> religion poticials and race
[06:47:21] <XXCoder> top 3 buttons
[06:47:38] <norias> no nascar?
[06:47:40] <norias> no f1?
[06:47:42] <witnit> I noticed there is a wonderful hierarchy of passing along support, for example if you know the answer to something you understand well, you really take the load off of the programmers which are working on the next aspect of the community
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[06:50:52] <witnit> I recall coming in here asking about how to control floppy drives with stepconf and a year later buying the newest card mesa was putting out and flashing it with bitfiles, specifying encoders and doing pid tuning
[06:51:52] <witnit> never would have learned any of it without good direction from people like xxcoder, archivist, pcw, (its a much bigger list reallly)
[06:52:13] <XXCoder> just basics from me really lol
[06:53:01] <witnit> when you take the time out of your night to link somone the documentation that saved them 10+ hours of failure, its more meaningful than saying "just the basics" :)
[06:53:24] <XXCoder> thanks
[06:55:35] <norias> swell group of fellas
[06:57:24] <witnit> i need to get a video up of some of my linuxcnc machines, I have done 3 retrofits and repaired a 6 axis motoman robot, each machine doing me wonders at the shop to this day
[06:58:30] <Tecan> [cube] you get your printer working ?
[06:58:57] <norias> nice
[06:59:10] <norias> so, ok, honest question
[06:59:21] <norias> every system has it's downsides
[06:59:32] <norias> what are the downsides to linuxcnc
[06:59:39] <norias> i can't imagine emulating plc's etc
[06:59:45] <witnit> learn alot on your own, no true support system
[06:59:52] <norias> is better than or equal to real plc's
[06:59:57] <witnit> better
[06:59:57] <norias> etc
[07:00:09] <norias> how is it better?
[07:00:36] <witnit> i replaced my PLC with a $10 computer and a 10$ relay board and its boasting a cute lil website for monitoring and control
[07:00:50] <witnit> not to mention ondemand reprogramming remotely
[07:01:18] <norias> i'm going to have to think about this one for a bit
[07:01:18] <witnit> with encoder support.....
[07:01:25] <norias> i'm a little dubious
[07:01:29] <norias> that it could be better
[07:01:39] <norias> (depending on your definition of good, i guess)
[07:02:00] <witnit> what makes a plc good?
[07:02:03] <norias> but i could also be naive and uninformed
[07:02:42] <norias> i didn't say i had a good argument!
[07:03:00] <archivist> norias, there is classicladder built in to linuxcnc for the plc part of a machine
[07:03:03] <witnit> linuxcnc has built in ladder logic as well so you have that, cost is lower, and you can modify variables on the fly
[07:03:13] <norias> right, i get that
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[07:03:25] <norias> but.. can the performance really be as good?
[07:03:35] <norias> emulating hardware in software?
[07:03:35] <archivist> you can also play with hal to do wonders
[07:03:45] <witnit> like, reliability?
[07:03:54] <norias> naw, just performance
[07:03:56] <archivist> a plc in software too!
[07:04:02] <norias> like line on life following
[07:04:03] <archivist> in/is
[07:04:06] <norias> guh
[07:04:08] <norias> line on line
[07:04:20] <norias> fair point, archivist
[07:04:30] <archivist> it is the same, not emulating
[07:04:49] <norias> hmm
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[07:05:14] <norias> yeah, i got to think this one through
[07:05:32] <witnit> I dont want to break your argument, but i really dont think there is an advantage unless you are a big corporation and do not have the people to understand this technology since it is not a global standard
[07:05:54] <witnit> what are your requirments of the plc?
[07:06:05] <archivist> I have three machines under linuxcnc too, a 5 axis mill, a small lathe and a hobbing machine (geared axes)
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[07:06:21] <norias> don't get me wrong
[07:06:27] <norias> i bet it's all sorts of awesome
[07:06:39] <norias> but my knowledge of the world
[07:06:47] <norias> indicates thre are always tradeoffs
[07:07:04] <norias> so i just wonder what the tradeoff is with linuxcnc
[07:07:22] <witnit> mine are , hardinge automatic lathe, index b60, and an automatic crossdrilling and deburing tool (yanked one of those junk micrologix things out and used my own relay board and printer port )
[07:07:24] <norias> because it seems to have a lot of great features
[07:07:41] <witnit> ;) :)
[07:07:45] <archivist> the fact it can do almost anything means a little more effort configuring
[07:07:58] <norias> so
[07:08:08] <norias> if i built most of the control logic with say
[07:08:13] <norias> ic's
[07:08:19] <norias> like a bunch of op amps
[07:08:22] <norias> and ...
[07:08:36] <norias> micropressors
[07:08:48] <norias> (i'm kinda tired and had to take pain meds, too)
[07:08:54] <archivist> no need for all that effort
[07:09:06] <archivist> dont re invent the wheel
[07:09:07] <norias> that's basically what the control was
[07:09:11] <norias> that i'm replacing
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[07:09:32] <archivist> what does the machine do
[07:09:38] <norias> 3 axis mill
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[07:09:58] <archivist> then should be simple to retrofit
[07:10:19] <norias> i'm totally convinced of that part
[07:10:33] <norias> and that's kind of my point
[07:10:38] <norias> i see a lot of benefits
[07:10:44] <norias> and i wonder what the tradeoffs are
[07:11:00] <witnit> but, you cant cnc with a plc
[07:11:06] <norias> maybe there aren't any
[07:11:21] <norias> maybe i'm missing something
[07:11:36] <archivist> witnit, you can, as long as the job is not too variable
[07:11:36] <norias> sometimes some technology is just simply superior
[07:12:19] <norias> but, i would think if that's the case...
[07:12:29] <norias> i should be able to crack open the controller on say
[07:12:30] <archivist> I used to repair a window machine which had a plc
[07:12:38] <norias> a top end DMG
[07:12:47] <norias> and just see a couple servo amps
[07:12:53] <norias> an i/o board
[07:12:58] <norias> and a pc
[07:13:44] <witnit> it sounds like you are about $300 away from a working cnc going this route providing all amps and encoders, switches are good
[07:13:54] <archivist> well replace software on the PC and then you may need a different io card (one compatible) then it should work
[07:14:15] * archivist has to go out now
[07:14:30] <witnit> build us wonderful things!
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[07:21:30] <witnit> norias do you know kind of servos/amps/encoders it uses?
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[07:22:25] <norias> yeah
[07:22:34] <norias> amps are... glentek ga370
[07:22:43] <norias> drives some brushed dc motors
[07:22:51] <witnit> wow, i built mine using that same rig
[07:22:52] <norias> i forget the encoders off hand
[07:23:01] <witnit> do you need any manuals?
[07:23:13] <norias> for the ga370?
[07:23:13] <witnit> i have them for the motors, boards and encoders i think
[07:23:15] <witnit> yeah
[07:23:22] <norias> i have that one
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[07:23:33] <norias> i need to get the encoder one
[07:23:35] <norias> at some point
[07:23:45] <norias> what mesa boards did you use/
[07:24:06] <witnit> i ended up switching to a different amps after i did the initial build
[07:24:22] <witnit> i used the 7i33ta
[07:24:31] <norias> ahh, ok
[07:24:42] <norias> that's the daughter board i thought was right
[07:24:54] <norias> and it's like... uh 5i something
[07:24:56] <norias> for the pci
[07:25:00] <norias> right/
[07:25:04] <witnit> well at first
[07:25:11] <witnit> then i switched to a really low cost card
[07:25:13] <norias> (i have all that stuff on my work computer)
[07:25:18] <witnit> 7i90 and went throught eh printer port
[07:25:21] <norias> why the switch?
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[07:25:33] <witnit> much cheaper and it was all i needed
[07:25:47] <witnit> add the 7i90 and the 7i33
[07:25:52] <norias> but you had already bought the more expensive one?
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[07:26:10] <witnit> i wiped the board out by not grounding my machine :(
[07:26:16] <norias> oh
[07:26:47] <norias> you mean grounding the 3 phase?
[07:26:52] <witnit> 220 3phase
[07:26:56] <witnit> feedback through encoder
[07:27:04] <witnit> and got it
[07:27:10] <norias> oh
[07:27:29] <norias> well, the power supply stuff was done by an electrician
[07:27:30] <witnit> three phase for the motor on the spindle and dc for the servos
[07:27:32] <norias> for this machine
[07:27:39] <norias> so...
[07:27:53] <norias> i'm thinking that's probably right
[07:28:41] <norias> i'm a machinist who used to do some c coding
[07:28:44] <norias> and digs linux
[07:28:57] <norias> this electrical / electronics side of stuff
[07:29:01] <norias> is going to take me a minute
[07:29:50] <witnit> just get your old floppy drives out, push a couple wires into your printer port and start telling them to move :)
[07:30:06] <witnit> simple as that
[07:30:57] <norias> ahh, ok
[07:31:06] <norias> do i need to yell at them?
[07:31:10] <norias> or say it nice?
[07:31:18] <witnit> just make sure you tell the to G0
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[07:31:26] <witnit> cnc joke^
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[07:31:32] <norias> yeah, yeah
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[07:31:47] <norias> boring mill
[07:31:51] <norias> blah blah
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[07:36:09] <witnit> as a machinist, what kinds of machines did you run?
[07:40:19] <XXCoder> he left
[07:40:37] <witnit> ha yeah i noticed :P i wasnt paying attention
[07:40:38] <XXCoder> myself I ran ancient pmx, haas router, various models of hurco
[07:40:44] <witnit> oooh
[07:41:11] <witnit> i never ran any cnc's i was on manual until i built my own :)
[07:41:22] <XXCoder> nice
[07:41:35] <witnit> what was your favorite interface?
[07:41:44] <XXCoder> hurco
[07:41:50] <XXCoder> dunno what they call it
[07:41:58] <XXCoder> I has zero experence with linuxcnc
[07:42:55] <witnit> it must have been a pretty natural feeling design
[07:44:43] <witnit> i noticed some interfaces are very intimidating for a user
[07:45:08] <XXCoder> haas is intimidating a bit
[07:45:12] <XXCoder> it has strange design
[07:45:26] <XXCoder> hurco is simplier and has more direct buttons to do stuff
[07:45:35] <XXCoder> haas has more buttons but.. noit better there.
[07:45:46] <XXCoder> pmx is very old
[07:45:58] <XXCoder> strange stuff I just learned how to press start lol
[07:46:06] <witnit> heh
[07:46:25] <witnit> are currently doing a linuxcnc build?
[07:46:59] <XXCoder> well techinically
[07:47:05] <XXCoder> havent worked on it for a bit
[07:52:22] <witnit> im doing a complete rebuild of my crossdrilling machine, currently its on a printer port, i have a 7I92 coming so i can put the computer on the other side of the room, and later have the things i need to add a conveyer
[07:53:59] <XXCoder> cool. well time for me to sleep. nighht
[07:54:24] <witnit_> later
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[08:11:21] <Deejay> moin
[08:12:27] <Jymmm> hey
[08:14:08] <unfy> o/
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[08:16:39] <witnit> mojn!
[08:18:07] <Deejay> \o/
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[08:23:33] <DGMurdockIII> Hi again
[08:23:55] <DGMurdockIII> Is linux cnc easy to use
[08:25:05] <unfy> i've not done too much with it, but it seems easy enough
[08:28:11] <Jymmm> DGMurdockIII: Make a LiveCd, try it yourself, read thru the manuals and see for yourself.
[08:28:35] <DGMurdockIII> Ok
[08:29:36] <DGMurdockIII> I now it dose not have a modeling program on it
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[08:33:57] <Jymmm> PCW: Frys has Tenergy protected 8650 2600mAh on sale for $6 this week
[08:34:03] <Jymmm> 18650
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[08:41:07] <witnit> awwee my router/firewall was up for months and I had to reboot it
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[15:49:50] <_methods> http://secupwn.github.io/Android-IMSI-Catcher-Detector/
[15:50:08] <_methods> OT but cool
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[16:53:25] <Sandblech_Micha> Hello. I have the Linuxcnc 2.6.5 from the Debian Live CD Installed. Working fine. How can i use the camview-emc in AXIS for my Webcam? I know the WIKI for this, but there is now hints for the DEBIAN Wheezy.
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[17:03:32] <archivist> camview does not get a lot of love, you may need to work on it
[17:05:21] <Sandblech_Micha> Is there a alternative for a Video TAB in AXIS?
[17:05:50] <archivist> I am not aware of one
[17:06:34] <cradek> I think camview does not currently have a maintainer, and it shows
[17:06:41] <cradek> please let us know what you come up with
[17:06:54] <cradek> I see more questions than answers about it
[17:08:03] <zeeshan> lol
[17:09:07] <Sandblech_Micha> Maybe i try it in an older Version of Linuxcnc under Unbuntu with camview. I need only to drill PCBs.
[17:11:00] <Sandblech_Micha> This is what i like to use under Linux with the Webcam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzI445XsPDs
[17:12:47] <Sandblech_Micha> Ok thank you.. Bye
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[17:48:39] <albova> hello
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[17:50:47] <_methods> hallo
[17:51:46] <albova> is there anyone ?
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[17:53:19] <archivist> plenty, just waiting for questions
[17:53:51] <albova> hi i only test this chat
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[17:59:08] <zeeshan> lol
[17:59:51] * archivist puts 240 volts across zeeshan to test him
[17:59:59] <zeeshan> zzzzzzzzzzzt
[18:10:23] <Rab> Whoa @ KAOS armature:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd90UfgGv0
[18:11:07] <skunkworks> simple matter of kins...
[18:12:16] <archivist> and cheating by having two opposing half speed
[18:12:57] <malcom2073> Rab: Nice
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[18:16:40] <tjtr33> posn loop with speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW5-fI2ElPc ( 6krpm &12pitch screw )
[18:18:10] <tjtr33> to do this kinda work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc8BUu61LvI
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[18:34:06] * JT-Shop thinks he will miss his nap today... powder coating 50 parts
[18:34:50] <Tom_itx> aww
[18:35:29] <jdh> it's good to have stuff to do.
[18:35:49] <Tom_itx> 22F
[18:35:57] <JT-Shop> 27f here
[18:35:58] <Tom_itx> i think i'll go out and tan
[18:36:25] <Tom_itx> no, actually i'm gonna work on my control box
[18:36:35] <marmite> 1 calvin here
[18:37:12] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, are you just baking powdercoat to stay warm?
[18:37:36] <JT-Shop> no, I need to get them done now that I've run them through the HCL
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[19:33:38] <_methods> http://volterainc.com/
[19:33:50] <_methods> that thing actually looks kinda cool
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[19:37:30] <CaptHindsight> it says two layer but it doesn't have any details on how it does vias
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[19:41:27] <CaptHindsight> you can diy one similar with a mini mill, just add a micro valve for dispensing silver ink
[19:41:27] <_methods> i saw it printing a diff blue ink
[19:41:30] <_methods> so i'm not sure
[19:41:42] <CaptHindsight> silver ink recipe
http://jordanbunker.com/archives/41
[19:41:48] <_methods> ah cool
[19:42:05] <_methods> looks like they have a hot plate built in too for reflow
[19:42:13] <CaptHindsight> drill vias and print conductive ink into the holes
[19:42:27] <_methods> they didn't show how they were cutting the boards either or drilling anything
[19:42:32] <_methods> i guess its meant to be all smd
[19:42:34] <CaptHindsight> or use silver solder paste
[19:43:58] <CaptHindsight> yeah, the volterainc looks like single sided smt unless they aren't showing everything on the website
[19:45:00] <_methods> i'm sure they want way too much for that
[19:45:04] <CaptHindsight> if thats all it is then you can use a modified thermal inkjet printer and print silver ink onto fr4
[19:45:07] <_methods> i'll just stick to my handy dandy pcb mill
[19:46:22] <CaptHindsight> http://hackaday.com/2013/12/05/instant-inkjet-circuits-with-silver-nanoparticle-ink/
[19:47:02] <CaptHindsight> there was also an Australian group on indegogo or similar that sold you ink and cartridges (HP Gen1)
[19:48:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.thecrowdfundnetwork.com/silver-nanoparticle-ink-turns-your-printer-into-a-circuit-board-factory/
[19:48:11] <_methods> oh yeah i remember that thing
[19:48:15] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1597902824/agic-print-printing-circuit-boards-with-home-print
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[19:49:49] <CaptHindsight> silver costs much more than solver so it's only used in limited applications, copper ink is more complicated to make and print with since it oxidizes so rapidly
[19:49:58] <CaptHindsight> solver/silver
[19:51:25] <_methods> just easier to buy copper drops and cut my own
[19:51:31] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cartesianco/the-ex1-rapid-3d-printing-of-circuit-boards
[19:52:06] <CaptHindsight> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/electroninks/circuit-scribe-draw-circuits-instantly
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[19:52:46] <CaptHindsight> heh, they took silver ink and put it in a pen and
[19:53:03] <_methods> you mean like the pens they already have lol
[19:53:16] <CaptHindsight> people actually paid for that vs diy or off the shelf
[19:53:20] <_methods> omg and they got $600k
[19:53:27] <CaptHindsight> yup, amazing
[19:53:31] <_methods> sucker born everyday i guess
[19:53:51] <CaptHindsight> I'm trying to see what the actual price of pen with ink was
[19:53:57] <_methods> it's like tv infomercials for hipster douche bags
[19:54:26] <_methods> kickstarter = as seen on tv lol
[19:54:29] <CaptHindsight> looks like $20 for the pen with ink
[19:54:54] <CaptHindsight> 10 for $175
[19:55:16] <CaptHindsight> I really overestimate people
[19:55:24] <_methods> http://www.all-spec.com/products/CW2000.html?gclid=CLj44MnYh8MCFWho7AodZRsAhA
[19:55:25] <_methods> me too
[19:55:43] <_methods> just shows all you need is a pretty picture or video and the suckers will appear
[19:55:56] <_methods> $20 for $9 pen lol
[19:57:11] <CaptHindsight> does it say anywhere how much ink was in them?
[19:57:26] <_methods> in the kickstarter ones?
[19:57:48] <_methods> i couldn't bring myself to watch the pen one lol
[19:57:54] <_methods> i was laughing too hard
[19:58:10] <_methods> i needed a good laugh though
[19:58:19] <_methods> got 2000 parts coming back :(
[19:58:22] <CaptHindsight> heh, they used Jordans ink
[19:58:23] <_methods> $50k
[19:58:47] <_methods> all the paint is peeling off
[19:58:59] <CaptHindsight> he publish the howto to make it open
[20:00:11] <_methods> http://jordanbunker.com/archives/41
[20:00:12] <mozmck> _methods: ouch!
[20:00:13] <_methods> that one?
[20:00:16] <_methods> yeah ouch
[20:00:19] <CaptHindsight> yes
[20:00:29] <_methods> our painter is fukd
[20:00:36] <_methods> he's probably gonna go out of business from this
[20:00:43] <CaptHindsight> what did he paint?
[20:00:45] <mozmck> I had to re-finish a banjo I made because it started peeling.
[20:00:45] <_methods> and i'll be blasting parts for the next month
[20:01:02] <_methods> he screwed up the acid etch on a bunch of alum parts
[20:01:02] <mozmck> I used a water-based lacquer. Never again.
[20:01:08] <_methods> carc
[20:01:12] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: does it sound any different? :)
[20:01:16] <_methods> all the carc is peeling
[20:01:25] <_methods> well chipping off
[20:01:35] <_methods> you can peel it off with your fingernail
[20:01:39] <_methods> no adhesion
[20:01:42] <_methods> total nightmare
[20:01:50] <CaptHindsight> carc?
[20:02:01] <_methods> NBC paint
[20:02:04] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: no, but for a banjo a couple of months old, the lacquer should not have been coming off!
[20:02:06] <_methods> chemical resistant
[20:02:19] <_methods> nuclear biological chemical paint
[20:02:27] <_methods> made to withstand decon cycles
[20:02:28] <Rab> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Agent_Resistant_Coating
[20:02:31] <_methods> yes
[20:02:41] <CaptHindsight> _methods: liquid coating or powder?
[20:02:45] <_methods> liquid
[20:02:48] <_methods> high solid
[20:03:09] <_methods> he should have alodined the parts
[20:03:19] <_methods> but he chose to use that crappy acid etch stuff
[20:03:32] <CaptHindsight> was a two part epoxy or polyester?
[20:03:42] <_methods> i'm not sure exactly
[20:03:46] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[20:04:11] <_methods> i'd have to see what he ordered
[20:04:20] <_methods> we just give him the color rqmnt
[20:04:26] <_methods> and let him choose his processes
[20:04:49] <_methods> it can be either epoxy or polyester i guess
[20:05:37] <_methods> 4 pallets full of parts though
[20:05:44] <_methods> :(
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[20:29:53] <witnit> _methods :( I had a guy run about a 1,000 of a part I make, they were bad and he got them mixxed into the crate with 2,000 ones which were already good and ready to go
[20:30:10] <witnit> needless to say, he checks his parts with much more scrutiny now :)
[20:30:39] <CaptHindsight> and this wasn't even in China
[20:31:32] <CaptHindsight> http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-DTL/download.php?spec=MIL-DTL-53072C.011404.PDF
[20:31:46] <CaptHindsight> DETAIL SPECIFICATION: CHEMICAL AGENT RESISTANT COATING (CARC) SYSTEM APPLICATION PROCEDURES AND QUALITY CONTROL INSPECTION
[20:34:05] <CaptHindsight> http://everyspec.com/library.php great site for specs by the way
[20:37:31] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oetxtZtCFZ8 ok here's another racket, inkjet pen printer, these sell for >$200K
[20:38:49] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYUPG8AG2Vs mini one for $30K
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[21:43:53] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: ink!?
[21:43:53] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: ink!?
[21:43:54] <zeeshan> :D
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[21:52:24] <Rab> Figured out the pinout for my servos...picture from an eBay auction for a different Sanyo-Denki motor with a different encoder, but used the same wire colors and had the color code on the label.
[21:53:04] <Rab> Wired it up, scoped the outputs, worked exactly as hoped.
[21:53:15] <zeeshan> nice
[21:53:19] <zeeshan> the question is
[21:53:23] <zeeshan> what do you intend to do with them?
[21:53:26] <zeeshan> mail them to zeeshan? :D
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[21:53:50] <Rab> zeeshan, sure you want to pay postage? They're heavy.
[21:53:55] <zeeshan> :D
[21:54:08] <zeeshan> im just trolling
[21:54:15] <zeeshan> i do need 2 servoces for A and C axis
[21:56:32] <zeeshan> Rab if you ever see a nice fluke multimeter
[21:56:40] <zeeshan> for cheap let me know!
[21:57:12] <zeeshan> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-digital-multimeter/912079
[21:57:16] <zeeshan> i dig the screen on this one
[21:57:20] <zeeshan> vfd style
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[22:31:57] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:08:45] <zeeshan> furrywoolf
[23:08:48] <zeeshan> where you be?!
[23:13:40] <XXCoder> wolf be at nowhere
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[23:41:13] <PetefromTn_> evening folks.
[23:43:40] <furrywolf> heyas
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[23:44:25] <furrywolf> grrr, I really wish I had a better internet connection.
[23:44:52] <XXCoder> hey wolf
[23:44:53] <PetefromTn_> well worked day two at my new part time Machine shop job today....
[23:45:06] <XXCoder> how was it
[23:45:19] <PetefromTn_> and my 25 minute drive home turned out to be about two and a half hours or so..
[23:45:32] <furrywolf> traffic, vehicle problems, ?
[23:45:33] <PetefromTn_> any guesses why?
[23:45:39] <_methods> explosions
[23:45:46] <Jymmm> So basically you are in the hole gas vs pay wise
[23:45:47] <PetefromTn_> no
[23:45:49] <XXCoder> superman blcoked the line
[23:45:59] <PetefromTn_> something like that hehe
[23:46:56] <PetefromTn_> actually the President of the United States was in Oak Ridge today speaking and his route home to the Air Force one waiting at Tyson Mcghee Airport in Maryville goes right down the Pellissippi parkway I drive to work on and back every day...
[23:47:30] <PetefromTn_> I was not aware we had that many Police officers/Cars in the country hehe
[23:47:37] <XXCoder> lol not common event eh
[23:47:40] <Jymmm> Obuma mucking it up for everyone... again
[23:47:55] <furrywolf> troll much?
[23:48:01] <PetefromTn_> I swear even the back roads I tried to take were parking lots...
[23:48:27] <PetefromTn_> literally sat in my Bronco listening to Pink Floyd for two and a half hours today
[23:48:37] <XXCoder> did you turn engine off?
[23:48:47] <PetefromTn_> left work at 4:15 and got home at almost 7PM
[23:48:53] <PetefromTn_> occasionally.
[23:49:09] <PetefromTn_> It was moving about just enough to make that a once in awhile thing.
[23:49:21] <PetefromTn_> I knew it was going to be bad but I HAD NO IDEA>>...
[23:49:38] <PetefromTn_> but as far as work it was pretty good today.
[23:49:54] <PetefromTn_> They had me working on the lathe running some damn stainless parts.
[23:49:54] <XXCoder> thats good. today is one of my very rare sick days
[23:50:02] <XXCoder> really nasty cough
[23:50:03] <PetefromTn_> I HATE STAINLESS
[23:50:09] <PetefromTn_> that sucks..
[23:50:10] <_methods> nice splinters
[23:50:10] <furrywolf> heh, I need to work on someone's bronco... snapped the pinion shaft on the front axle.
[23:50:59] <PetefromTn_> worst part is they had a 3.125" deep pocket in the barstock 1.125" diameter..
[23:51:24] <PetefromTn_> flat bottomed and there had to be a VERY SMOOTH and precise bore and floor to the pocket
[23:51:34] * furrywolf has noticed the new guy always gets the jobs no one else wants
[23:51:39] <PetefromTn_> so plenty of chances for a screwup...
[23:52:20] <PetefromTn_> I managed to make a bunch and they looked sweet and were to spec so I might have impressed them just a tad ;)
[23:53:05] <PetefromTn_> I did break off a 1" drill bit in one tho LOL.. I was able to remove it and get back to finishing that part without scrapping it. Damn bit was all fubared anyways.
[23:53:24] <furrywolf> probably why it broke
[23:53:36] <furrywolf> I need to get good at sharpening bits... I suck at it.
[23:54:09] <PetefromTn_> well actually the flutes were nice but the shank had slipped in the chuck apparently for other guys about a million times so it was really burred up and fugly.
[23:54:10] <furrywolf> or I need to see if 4-axis is enough to sharpen one properly with a diamond wheel in the spindle, and write a program to do it, one or the other. :P
[23:54:36] <PetefromTn_> for a drill bit?
[23:54:48] <furrywolf> I decided a while ago that if I used a faceted instead of conical grind I could do a good job with 4-axis, but I don't remember why I decided that.
[23:54:52] <furrywolf> yes
[23:54:57] <PetefromTn_> we just usually hand sharpen them or buy another one heh
[23:55:05] <furrywolf> yeah, I suck at that.
[23:55:18] * furrywolf sucks at most manual dexterity tasks... soldering SMT sucks!
[23:55:39] <PetefromTn_> drill bits are cheap enough it is usually not worth the time to screw with them other than just a quick cleanup on the wheel.
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[23:56:32] <furrywolf> the only cheap bits are chinese, and they're usually useless.
[23:56:38] <furrywolf> a good US-made bit is not cheap.
[23:56:50] <PetefromTn_> the owner who is also a machinist actually told me he recommended some kinda kobalt drills index from Harbor Freight today... Blew my mind.
[23:57:08] <PetefromTn_> but I used a bunch of them today and I gotta admit they were not bad.
[23:57:23] <PetefromTn_> Apparently the whole index is like a hundred bucks or something.
[23:57:45] <furrywolf> I've used the chinese non-cobalt one like that... they're good for one, maybe two holes each...
[23:58:01] <moorbo> PetefromTn_: I imagine with time as they get better, their products will get better
[23:58:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah like I said they were not bad.. they seemed to drill that stainless okay.
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[23:59:32] <PetefromTn_> they got a nice little surface grinder over in the corner of the shop that they said had some kinda problem
[23:59:49] * SpeedEvil idly wonders how much force you need to keep a wood-plane blade tracking without the plane
[23:59:50] <PetefromTn_> It looked like it was in good condition overall...
