#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-06

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[00:02:38] <_methods> or a lawnmower?
[00:03:52] -!- mttr [mttr!~mttr@0016019a1697.cpe.westmancom.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:04:31] <_methods> from horrible idea to greatest idea ever
[00:04:35] <_methods> http://www.ohbiteit.com/2013/08/krispy-kreme-waffles.html
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[00:18:15] <_methods> http://hackaday.com/2015/01/05/resourceful-cnc-router-built-from-hardware-store-parts/
[00:18:23] <_methods> so much funniez on the internet today
[00:21:29] <mozmck> http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/4829493765.html
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[00:27:20] <Nick001-shop> Is there any decent info on converting a Bridgeport series 1 Boss4 to Linuxcnc?
[00:27:25] <Bushman> heh, drawer sliders :D
[00:27:33] <Bushman> i have some of those too :D
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[00:28:24] <Bushman> suprisingly good enough for homemade CNC :P
[00:29:05] <Bushman> but to be honest i need to buy one more 16mm rail and bearings and replace this axis
[00:29:40] <Bushman> it's nice for wood but there are visible marks on acrylic :P
[00:30:26] * Bushman is lazy and procrastinates designing metal version of his homemade CNC
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[01:07:43] <Bushman> i'm attempting to install AXIS in simulator mode on my laptop...
[01:08:09] <Bushman> i'm going to regret that, am i not?
[01:12:35] <Jymmm> 4steaks from costco... $1199.99 USD
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[01:13:15] <_methods> gold steaks
[01:14:18] <malcom2073> Costco: Where stuff really costs.
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[01:18:46] <XXCoder> 1199 bucks for 4 steaks? I call bullshit
[01:20:32] <_methods> each steak weighs 100 lbs
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[01:23:36] <malcom2073> mmmm steak
[01:24:02] <XXCoder> 100 lb jeez thats thick steak
[01:24:25] <XXCoder> "where's the table?" "under your steak!"
[01:26:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.costco.com/D%E2%80%99Artagnan-Japanese-Wagyu-Boneless-Ribeye-Roast-A-5-Grade.product.100082950.html $136/lb
[01:27:22] <XXCoder> expensive
[01:27:29] <XXCoder> too bad its not worth it for me
[01:27:42] <Tom_itx> it's bull not steak
[01:27:57] <malcom2073> Also not Japanese, or Wagyu
[01:28:46] <CaptHindsight> Six 3lb Live Maine Lobsters $269.99
[01:28:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.costco.com/Six-3lb.-Live-Maine-Lobsters-By-Atwood-Lobster-.product.100019109.html
[01:31:06] <malcom2073> Guy I know used to drive a tractor trailer with lobsters from maine down to florida
[01:31:16] <malcom2073> he used to stop by on his way and sell me a few, back before I was allergic :/
[01:33:46] <CaptHindsight> Two 12-oz. ribeyes $200 http://www.deandeluca.com/butcher-shop/beef/wagyu-beef/wagyu-ribeyes.aspx
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[01:39:30] <Bushman> does that work reliably? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Shift_Register_Port_Expander
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[02:15:51] <CaptHindsight> Bushman: if the pcb is properly designed and assembled
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[02:22:47] <Bushman> that is not an issue. i think i'll use that for my end stops and home switches then
[02:23:25] <Bushman> that way i might even be able to spare a direct bit or two for other stuff
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[02:39:27] <MC500> I am trying to get a new computer to work with my stg card and Linux CNC 2.6 for some reason the servo's dont move any axis
[02:39:47] <MC500> im using all the old configuration files from EMC 2.3
[02:40:51] <Tom_itx> i'm guessing there have been config changes since 2.3; you might want to look at that
[02:41:20] <MC500> I tried diffing the files I didnt see much
[02:41:50] <MC500> only major differance is new file does not use emc.nml
[02:41:53] <Bushman> MC500: i have absolutely no idea what's your hardware setup but if i was you i'd try to manually configure at leat one axis and test it first. then look for issues with your old configs
[02:46:00] <MC500> other than flipped bits on limit switches not much
[02:46:43] <MC500> what was emc.nml?
[02:47:42] <Bushman> i don't know. maybe someone else does.
[02:48:10] <Bushman> but did you try to manually configure at least one axis and see if things work together?
[02:48:54] <MC500> well I had one axis run away each time I started it so I left it out now I got the rest homed and green but nothing I do to tuning makes it move at all
[02:48:54] <Bushman> don't configure anything else, just one thing to prove to yourself that the card and software do what you think the should do
[02:49:13] <MC500> if I enable the amplifier I do feel resistance on the lead screw
[02:49:30] <Bushman> what is your config?
[02:49:35] <MC500> the scales all work fine
[02:49:48] <MC500> stg.ini for the most part
[02:49:49] <Bushman> printer port + some stuff on the card or just the card?
[02:49:59] <MC500> just the card
[02:50:08] <MC500> its at base address 240
[02:50:20] <MC500> nothing else is there but to my supprise there is no irq used
[02:50:41] <Bushman> was it used before?
[02:51:03] <MC500> not that I am aware of
[02:51:08] <MC500> STG: Initialised stg2 card at address 240
[02:51:30] <MC500> I disabled anything and everyting in the MB bios that took an irq
[02:51:31] <Bushman> do you have any means to test if the bits do what you tell them?
[02:52:02] <MC500> not sure how to do that
[02:52:06] <Bushman> if you say the amps are on that means some bits must be working
[02:52:34] <MC500> yea amps are on they reset scales work, coolant turns on and off spindle spins
[02:52:39] <Bushman> i don't have a card (yet) so i'm not really sure how one confugures it for use with linuxcnc
[02:52:55] <MC500> I have an old old old card ISA....
[02:53:12] <Bushman> so basically everythign works but not the axis?
[02:53:16] <Bushman> movement?
[02:53:19] <MC500> yea
[02:53:26] <Bushman> hmm...
[02:54:01] <Bushman> your stepper drivers are serial in or do you use multiple pins for each stepper?
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[02:54:19] <MC500> its a/c amplifier a/c serveo
[02:54:53] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/drivers_servo_to_go.html
[02:54:59] <Tom_itx> 2.4 docs on it
[02:56:18] <Bushman> MC500: i mean does it use "direction" and "step" pins or multiple pins for each winding?
[02:56:44] <Bushman> also, do you have osciloscope? or multimeter atleats?
[02:58:22] <MC500> I can dig u p an o-scope but multimeter yes
[02:59:14] <Bushman> hook it up to direction pin
[02:59:26] <Bushman> and see if it changes depending which way you jog
[02:59:54] <MC500> ok will do that, thanks.. (have to read to figure out which one its been years...)
[03:00:05] <Bushman> then set extremely slow speed and test the step pin or use osciloscope
[03:01:08] <pcw_home> sounds like the analog outputs are not working (you could trace the signal in hal)
[03:01:10] <pcw_home> ( I'm assuming the STG card is +-10V analog output/encoder input card )
[03:01:24] <Bushman> on unrelated note: i've managed to install and run AXIS in simulator mode on my laptop :D
[03:01:57] <Bushman> no need to move my lazy ass, turn on the machine's PC and download files to just "see how it looks like"
[03:02:51] <MC500> was hoping for some kind of compatibility problem, it does work with the old computer which is very old and dosent even turn on from time to time.. but working
[03:03:59] <pcw_home> It works on the old machine with new software?
[03:04:10] <MC500> no its EMC 2.3
[03:04:41] <pcw_home> more likely a software issue if any I/O works
[03:04:58] <MC500> although I tred EMC2.3 on the new machine and it had the same issues I was just trying 2.6 because I thought since it was a newer machine might need new software
[03:05:36] <Bushman> EMC sounds like ancient history to me... the config file might "look" the same but i wouldn't bet on the software does the same anymore
[03:06:08] <pcw_home> Might be an I/O overlap (some MB hardware on top of the cards I/O)
[03:06:17] <Bushman> MC500: can't you try and manually reconfigure it from scratch?
[03:07:08] <MC500> I coppied every file form the new sample config except stg.ini and stg_io.hal
[03:07:27] <MC500> both those files look reasonable when compaired to the new samples
[03:07:44] <MC500> only a few bits flipped for limit switches and an added 4th axis
[03:08:37] <pcw_home> So does the exact same config work on one machine but fail on the other?
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[03:08:56] <pcw_home> (swap drive only)
[03:11:07] <MC500> no, new PC does not work with old OS/EMC or new EMC
[03:12:52] <pcw_home> tough to find a relatively modern MB with ISA
[03:13:58] <pcw_home> so you newer MB wont work with the current debian ISO?
[03:16:31] <MC500> whats the current one, I had 2.6 figured it was new enough
[03:17:21] <furrywolf> pcw: happen to have a used 7I76E? I got a few bucks spare (taxes were cheaper than I expected... only sent uncle sam $1720 today!), and am reconsidering a mesa board...
[03:17:25] <MC500> its a farily modern board its a Core2 quad
[03:18:37] <MC500> it was like $500.00 to get freaking ISA... had dual NICS on board graphics 4 serial ports bla bla bla
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[03:23:33] <MC500> well I have got to go, thanks for everyones help.. I will scroll back later if anyone posts follup info... ttl
[03:23:48] <PetefromTn_> evening folks...
[03:24:01] <furrywolf> mc500: I'll send you my isa gpib card nice and cheap. :P
[03:24:48] <PetefromTn_> about to setup the little 5C spindex I bought for a CNC job for the first time LOL
[03:25:08] <PetefromTn_> I am thinking I will make some simple mods to it
[03:26:09] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns0I8TKdZrQ Don't need to turn it into a dividing head like he is but It would be nice to be able to clamp it in the vise longitudinally and be parallel with it's spindle
[03:27:21] <PetefromTn_> so probably gonna do that tonight or tomorrow morning before I start the programmed cuts..
[03:27:44] <t12_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torpedo_Data_Computer
[03:28:09] <furrywolf> I started working on straightening my bent shaft today... didn't get very far. promptly ran out of oxygen.
[03:28:29] <furrywolf> got the rough bend out, but ran out of oxy reheating for the fine tuning.
[03:28:34] * Jymmm LMAO @ furrywolf
[03:28:46] <furrywolf> ?
[03:29:01] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ask your doctor if Viagra is right for you
[03:29:28] <furrywolf> ?
[03:29:45] <Jymmm> furrywolf: furrywolf: I started working on straightening my bent shaft today... didn't get very far. promptly ran out of oxygen.
[03:30:33] <Jymmm> furrywolf: phalic symbol and somethign you need to breath
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[03:30:35] <furrywolf> jymm: http://fw.bushytails.net/bentleadscrew01.jpg and http://fw.bushytails.net/bentleadscrew02.jpg is the project. ("before" pictures)
[03:31:32] <Bushman> what are the default units in tool table and how do i change them?
[03:31:43] <Jymmm> OUch, I don't think viagra would help with that. and only temporary no longer than 4 hours
[03:32:05] <Jymmm> furrywolf: wrench left on teh shaft then hit on?
[03:32:09] <PetefromTn_> LOL well if you screwed up like I did and made your machine native metric then the units are metric...so far I have not figured out if you CAN change them.
[03:32:47] <Jymmm> furrywolf: did you get it that way?
[03:33:14] <furrywolf> jymm: the shaft is a bit large for that. I'm straightening it hot.
[03:33:15] <furrywolf> yes
[03:33:36] <Jymmm> furrywolf: you have a piece of glass or granite tile by chance?
[03:33:36] <furrywolf> the machine either, from what I could make out from his story and the damage on it, got hit with a forklift and/or fell on its side.
[03:33:45] <Jymmm> ah
[03:33:47] <furrywolf> no. I have a good eye and a straightedge. :P
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[03:34:09] <Jymmm> fuck the straight edge.... check it the same way you do a pool cue ctick
[03:34:20] <furrywolf> since it has a timing pulley on the end with a rubber belt, even if I'm a couple thous off, it'll work just fine...
[03:35:48] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Well, fair enough. But I always find things will "creep out of the woodwork" after it's installed on "good enough"
[03:36:07] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: you mean it's in inches?
[03:36:12] <Bushman> damn it
[03:36:22] <Bushman> i'm not comfortable with this system ;/
[03:36:39] <furrywolf> I've only played pool a couple of times, and don't know how to test a pool stick. I'm mostly just eyeballing it, and spinning it around while looking for wobble. once it's very close, I can put it back in the machine and run a dial indicator on it if I really want it perfect...
[03:37:13] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: but the setting must be somewhere
[03:37:37] <Bushman> after all it's read from machine config, isn't it?
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[03:37:56] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Ah... Place the tip on a known flat surface, then while looking down the shaft, rotate it while it's touching the table. Any bow/flex in the shaft will be predominate 360deg around.
[03:38:29] <Jymmm> furrywolf: You dont have to be upclose to it at all
[03:39:32] <furrywolf> I have a pretty good eye for straightness... I can get within a couple thous easily.
[03:39:59] <furrywolf> for better, I can put it back in the machine, and use a dial indicator to measure the runout at a bunch of spots, and find the exact high spot and angle...
[03:40:06] <Jymmm> I've seen poolcues like this --------------/\---\/--- =)
[03:40:17] <PetefromTn_> Bushman No I WISH it was inches... my machine shows metric tool table numbers
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[03:41:06] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: i DO understand that our situation is the same but different in the way we need THE OTHER system
[03:41:08] <furrywolf> my machine reads inches on x and y and mm on z. stop bitching.
[03:41:09] <PetefromTn_> I am in US and I set my machine up with metric native units because we thought it would be easier since it had metric screws and someone else has the same machine so we could use his config information to help us.
[03:42:02] <PetefromTn_> that was not the best idea as it turns out as we were unaware you could not select metric/inch for the tool table settings..
[03:43:24] * furrywolf pokes pcw
[03:44:11] <furrywolf> I have no idea why my machine is built this way, other than yay, china. the x and y dials, and the scale on the y axis, are in inches. the z dial reads mm.
[03:45:05] <malcom2073> It's really like they don't even try
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[03:46:20] <furrywolf> also, in an unrelated issue, UPS has once again managed to lose my packages... TWO OF THEM. from different places. one was last seen on the 2nd, the other has a destination scan in another state, with no updates since.
[03:46:35] <furrywolf> I really need to stick to my policy of never, ever ordering from any store that will only ship ups.
[03:47:11] <furrywolf> EVERY SINGLE thing I ever get shipped ups is either late, lost, or damaged. without fail. every fucking time.
[03:47:30] <furrywolf> and costs double what USPS would have charged to get it here on time, in half the time, in one piece.
[03:50:32] <unfy> are you in an odd place or something ?
[03:50:44] <furrywolf> northern california
[03:50:55] <furrywolf> which may be considered odd, yes. :P
[03:52:24] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: maybe we should post a feature request for tool table units?
[03:53:20] <unfy> also, spent the weekend soldering ~250 through hole parts. a no name chinese p.o.s. 937d did fine. (a haako clone / rip off)
[03:54:00] <unfy> furry: and the address you use is the one the post office address checker thing suggests ?
[03:54:15] <Bushman> anyway, i've manually modifed the simulator ini file and now have metric tools
[03:55:53] <PetefromTn_> woah what? You changed the tool table units?
[03:56:27] <furrywolf> for soldering through-hole, I've yet to find anything that beats a good ol' 100/140W weller pistol-grip gun. :)
[03:56:43] <furrywolf> I have a temperature regulated digital soldering station... the weller wins.
[03:57:04] <PetefromTn_> or just changed the native units...
[03:57:54] <unfy> this thing did wonderfully set at 375c
[03:58:05] <unfy> and i /hate/ weller stuff
[03:58:18] <furrywolf> unfy: the post office suggests spelling the street name slightly differently (an e where the street name, and sign on the street, has an o), but I've tried both ways, and ups still loses, delays, or damages everything.
[03:58:20] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, switch it back to inch then and adjust your screw ratio
[03:58:25] <furrywolf> neither usps nor fedex ever does.
[03:58:33] <unfy> damn ._.
[03:58:54] <unfy> well, learn your lesson! don't do ups no more :D
[03:59:46] <furrywolf> unfy: rather than trying to regulate the tip temperature, I prefer to heat the joint up as quickly as possible. as long as you're melting solder onto the joint, the temperature will regulate itself. so unless you're really slow and dawdle and just leave the tip on a joint you're not actively soldering, regulation isn't useful...
[03:59:54] <furrywolf> unfy: one of them said it was going to ship USPS!
[04:00:07] <unfy> granted, i was mostly only soldering perfboard, so there wasn't a whole bunch of heat sinking going on... so i dunno how the thing performs in the way of thermal capacitance
[04:00:23] <furrywolf> the faster you heat the joint up, the less heat soaks into the component
[04:00:40] <PetefromTn_> Tom_itx Yeah I know that is what I NEED to do but I have been running the damn thing a LOT lately so have not had time to take it down and mess with it.
[04:01:35] <PetefromTn_> AND I am not entirely sure how to do it was actually thinking of maybe seeing if I could setup a Google hangout video chat with someone and see if they can walk me thru how to make an alternate configuration for the machine so I can test stuff..
[04:02:12] <unfy> furry: i use tip temp as just a way to guarunteeing a little bit of wiggle room
[04:02:22] <PetefromTn_> a couple days back PCW had ideas about how to change and what to change but I need to get to trying those things.
[04:03:21] <furrywolf> unfy: I solder quick. :)
[04:03:51] <PetefromTn_> Right now I am programming a bunch of little aluminum 3/4 inch by 5.75" standoffs to be drilled, champfered, rigid tapped and faced on the Cinci in a vertical 5C fixture.
[04:05:21] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: no, i just changed everything back to metric. didn't found any indication for tool table units
[04:05:29] <Bushman> but it would be cool if there was an option
[04:05:45] <unfy> quick is proper technique ... but sometimes things are what they are heh
[04:06:04] <Bushman> cause for example i have both, metric and imperial tool sizes
[04:06:46] <PetefromTn_> Bushman I hear you, sure would be nice if you could just change a setting and viola your tool table is showing inch or metric or whatever you need it to.
[04:07:06] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: there should be an option for selecting it. or atleast a gui that lets you input metric/imperial that converts it to machine units on commit
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[04:08:51] <Bushman> from computation point of view the conversion is really simple 1:2.54 IIRC but for a human that's not used to it... well you need a calculator or a piece of paper ;/
[04:09:08] * furrywolf curls up and yawns
[04:09:09] <PetefromTn_> sure it is simple but like you said PIA
[04:10:11] <Bushman> is there a feature request somewhere ?
[04:10:21] <Bushman> where we could post it?
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[04:11:19] <Bushman> on unrelated note, i've finally managed to output a working code from DXF2GCODE tool
[04:11:31] <Bushman> http://bushman.pl/misc/screenshots/dxf2gcode_test.png
[04:11:42] <Bushman> still don't know what i did
[04:11:43] <furrywolf> do I need to bother fusing the secondary side of my transformer, or is a primary side fuse adequate?
[04:11:54] <Bushman> but it works and does not spit errors on load
[04:12:09] <PetefromTn_> congrats man
[04:12:33] <Bushman> furrywolf: i'd fuse the secondary
[04:12:47] <Bushman> furrywolf: the primary usually has a termal fuse anyway
[04:12:49] <furrywolf> also, on that part of the circuit, should the e-stop kill the actual power to the stepper drivers, or just the step/dir signals?
[04:13:12] <Bushman> what's the circuit?
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[04:13:44] <furrywolf> a simple unregulated power supply for my stepper drivers. 40vac 625va transformer, bridge rectifier, 37,000uf cap.
[04:13:51] <Bushman> also i think it's a bad idea to cut power. they should enforce the stop i think
[04:15:06] <Bushman> make the stepper to stop instantly and not risk (in extreme cases) some flywheel effect
[04:15:11] <furrywolf> and, also related, is a SSR sufficient for the spindle e-stop, or should I toss a mechanical contactor in there? I've never had an ssr fail, and it seems unlikely one would do so at the exact time you're trying to e-stop it...
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[04:15:53] <Bushman> i think it's up to you
[04:16:14] <Bushman> it's as safe as safe you feel around it :P
[04:16:52] <furrywolf> well, it's only 3/4hp, with a foot of travel or so in any direction... so it's a bit safer than most machines already...
[04:17:06] <Bushman> on somewhat related note: I WANT ONE!!! http://gosublogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/usb-panic-button.jpg
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[04:17:28] <Bushman> furrywolf: heh, i think you're fine with ssr
[04:17:31] <furrywolf> lol
[04:17:41] <furrywolf> one of my toughbooks has a panic button
[04:17:56] <furrywolf> the f11 key is backlit red and surrounded by a plastic shield
[04:18:04] <Bushman> lol
[04:18:39] <furrywolf> I looked it up when I got it... apparantly that means it was a police issue, with their software that uses the f11 key to initiate a silent "send immediate backup to my location" call.
[04:18:56] <Bushman> oh
[04:20:05] <Bushman> on unrelated note: none of you have noticed what my SIM machine's name is ;>
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[04:20:32] * furrywolf has no idea what it is, or where to find it, to be able to notice it.
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[04:20:41] <norias> hello
[04:20:41] * Tom_itx is not sure he cares
[04:20:56] <Bushman> furrywolf: on the screenshot
[04:21:08] <Bushman> Tom_itx: fair enough
[04:21:24] <furrywolf> pink dildo? lol
[04:21:54] <Bushman> :D
[04:22:04] * Bushman is being silly
[04:22:09] * furrywolf has a couple! a vixen creations raquel (although it's more a rose), a tantus rippled one, and a je joue uma...
[04:22:09] * Tom_itx is even more sure now
[04:23:32] <Bushman> what are the options for auto-homing?
[04:23:45] <furrywolf> oh, and one that came with a harness I bought a long time ago... no clue what the brand is anymore.
[04:24:09] <Bushman> harness? you mean strap-on?
[04:24:13] <Bushman> :P
[04:24:33] <furrywolf> yes
[04:24:55] <Bushman> i have not investigated homing cause i didn't install switches yet...
[04:25:08] <Bushman> but is there a way to auto home?
[04:25:13] <Bushman> and how does that work?
[04:25:35] <Bushman> how many switches minimum do i need to do that?
[04:25:54] <furrywolf> I have several harnesses... come to think of it, one of my Spare Parts Joque harnesses is pink... but that's not a dildo.
[04:26:06] <furrywolf> if you switches are at the very end of the axis, you need one per axis.
[04:26:16] <furrywolf> using one at each end and having limit switches too is standard, however.
[04:26:49] <norias> so... maybe silly question...
[04:27:05] <norias> but can I use linuxcnc to drive something non-stepper
[04:27:12] <furrywolf> yes
[04:27:17] <norias> specifically... brushed dc motors
[04:27:23] <furrywolf> better known as servos.
[04:27:27] <norias> i.e. the controller on my cnc mill died
[04:27:59] <Bushman> you can use DC motors with feedback (encoders, etc)
[04:28:30] <furrywolf> you'll need enough IO pins for the encoders, so a mesa board, or multiple parallel ports. or drivers that just take step/direction and close the loop internally, of course.
[04:28:34] <Bushman> furrywolf: what the machine does then?
[04:28:51] <norias> drivers seem good
[04:28:58] <norias> i'll look to see what a mesa board is
[04:29:11] <furrywolf> I've never actually set up servos, but I do know they're quite well supported with linuxcnc.
[04:29:14] <Bushman> norias: I/O board
[04:29:20] <norias> fpga based?
[04:29:21] * furrywolf can't afford anything large enough to use them
[04:29:24] <furrywolf> yes
[04:29:29] <norias> ahh, good deal
[04:29:42] <norias> so i/o through paralell port to fpga
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[04:29:53] <norias> to motor driver / amplifier
[04:30:05] <furrywolf> or pci card, or ethernet (beta, not well-tested yet).
[04:30:25] <norias> oh, is the mesa deal
[04:30:33] <norias> a generic i/o card?
[04:30:43] <Bushman> heh, yea
[04:31:00] <norias> so, i program the fpga?
[04:31:47] <Bushman> i'm not sure that's required
[04:31:55] <norias> hmm, ok
[04:32:11] <Rab> I believe Mesa supply the firmware as well: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=163
[04:32:25] <unfy> here at work, we inherited 50-100 or something GPIO cards. i don't recally if they have any logical inputs, but they do have like 16 or 32 solid state relay outputs.
[04:32:29] <furrywolf> pcw is the mesa expert
[04:32:54] <norias> well
[04:32:59] <norias> this should get interesting
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[04:33:24] <Rab> Looks like there are a few firmware options.
[04:33:39] <Rab> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
[04:33:39] <Bushman> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Editing_MESA_Bitfiles
[04:34:46] <norias> yeah, i just flipped through the "Getting Started"
[04:36:31] <norias> incidentally...
[04:36:33] <Bushman> norias: are your drivers internally closed loop?
[04:36:43] <norias> does linuxcnc have a good mdi /
[04:36:55] <norias> there is some amount of closed loop in the drivers
[04:36:56] <Bushman> define good
[04:37:04] <norias> from what i can tell
[04:37:16] <norias> it takes a tach input
[04:37:19] <Bushman> so the driver input is analog or digita?
[04:37:25] <norias> yeah...
[04:37:32] <norias> i'm going to say analog
[04:37:41] <Bushman> oh, ok.
[04:37:52] <norias> i'm a machinist with a former life in programming
[04:38:03] <Bushman> the MDI is just an input field where you type gcode snippets
[04:38:04] <norias> so i'm ok with the linux part
[04:38:08] <norias> and the machining part
[04:38:22] <norias> the electronics is where i'm getting quickly up to speed
[04:38:45] <norias> hmmm. well, maybe when i get this thing going well
[04:38:50] <norias> i'll write a more useful MDI
[04:38:52] <Bushman> but you have the recently used commands on hand, just need to cursor up to the one you need or double click it
[04:39:47] <Bushman> what do you need it to do in particular?
[04:40:02] <Bushman> just curious what else could there be.
[04:40:15] <norias> the MDI on the milltronics controllers is awesome
[04:40:23] <norias> basically... if it's something dumb and simple
[04:40:27] <norias> you write no g-code
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[04:40:47] <norias> i.e. it has a pocket routine you get to through a menu
[04:40:56] <Bushman> oh
[04:40:57] <norias> tell it how big the pocket is
[04:41:00] <norias> where it is
[04:41:00] <Bushman> like this
[04:41:09] <norias> the corner radius, etc
[04:41:11] <Bushman> heh, that would be cool
[04:41:12] <norias> and it goes
[04:41:19] <norias> and...
[04:41:30] <norias> there's an area where you can string together mdi commands
[04:41:33] <norias> in to a program
[04:41:53] <norias> we do all prototyping, so it was super useful
[04:41:56] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[04:42:04] <norias> you'd do something quick to get it out the door
[04:42:07] <Bushman> if you ever write something like this for linuxcnc, you've got a six-pack of beer from me :D
[04:42:11] <norias> if it came back
[04:42:16] <norias> you could run it again, easil
[04:42:17] <norias> y
[04:42:25] <norias> and if it became more of a production thing...
[04:42:32] <norias> well, re-write in g-code
[04:42:50] <norias> yeah, who knows, i might
[04:42:58] <norias> step one... make the machine work again
[04:43:15] <Bushman> i sometimes need to cut few rectangles and circles... that wold be super-usefull
[04:43:16] <unfy> a noble goal :D
[04:43:51] <norias> i've kinda been itching to do this
[04:43:58] <norias> since i use these machines for a living
[04:44:05] <norias> there are things i like and don't like about them
[04:44:14] <norias> i just didn't want to do it under pressure like this
[04:44:22] <Bushman> oh
[04:44:34] <Bushman> yea, that's usually a PIA
[04:44:41] <norias> like, i like the MDI from the milltronics
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[04:44:48] <norias> and, something similar, in a way
[04:44:51] <norias> is...
[04:44:56] <norias> mazatrol
[04:45:03] <Bushman> i hate to re-install my OS and put it aside again and again...
[04:45:09] <norias> interesting language alternative to gcode
[04:45:11] <Bushman> and usually have to do it when something breaks :D
[04:45:30] <norias> nist has some stuff going on with next-gen gcode replacement
[04:45:35] <norias> that i'd love to mess with
[04:45:57] <norias> but a lot of cnc controllers are just a pain in the ass
[04:46:10] <norias> not having conditionals and loops
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[04:46:17] <norias> makes me want to murder the people at haas
[04:46:41] <Bushman> hehe
[04:46:52] <Bushman> that's why i love linuxcnc
[04:47:11] <norias> it sounds fun
[04:47:18] <norias> i've been thinking about making a controller
[04:47:22] <Bushman> what i thought being a tape reader became a programming language
[04:47:27] <norias> but, as i said... not an ideal situation
[04:47:58] <norias> oh well, that's life
[04:48:04] <Bushman> i'm inexperienced machinist and my only job where i used to work on CNC was lather... older than me
[04:48:39] <norias> it'll be good for me
[04:48:48] <norias> every difficult experience if more learning
[04:48:49] <Bushman> there was punched tape reader retrofited with digital keyboard and memory but the MDI was still knobs and buttons
[04:48:53] <norias> nice
[04:48:59] <zeeshan|2> norias: you have dc servos w/ tachometers?
[04:49:17] <norias> i'm pretty sure they have tach
[04:49:29] <Bushman> now i'm playing around with my home-made 3-axis CNC mill
[04:49:29] <norias> and rotary encoder + limit switches
[04:49:40] <zeeshan|2> cool
[04:49:41] <zeeshan|2> what drive?
[04:49:50] <norias> hmm... hang on...
[04:49:51] <Bushman> it's quite small, 500x500mm and very ghetto XD
[04:49:59] <norias> glentek ga370
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[04:50:09] <norias> if that helps
[04:50:13] <Bushman> http://i.imgur.com/pEEYxmq.jpg
[04:50:19] <norias> i printed the manual for the drives
[04:50:31] <norias> oh, gantry
[04:50:43] <norias> hmm. gantry would not have been my first choice
[04:50:50] <norias> but works for space-constrained applications
[04:50:52] <zeeshan|2> yea you must have tachometers
[04:51:04] <norias> so, zeeshan
[04:51:07] <norias> sounds like you know
[04:51:11] <Bushman> no, the Y is just a board on drawer slides
[04:51:15] <norias> the motor itself has 4 wires
[04:51:19] <Bushman> the "Gate" is stationary
[04:51:22] <norias> i assume two are drive and two are tach
[04:51:29] <norias> different gages of wire
[04:51:34] <norias> does that sound right?
[04:51:40] <zeeshan|2> not for an industrial machine
[04:51:46] <zeeshan|2> tachometer should have 3 wires
[04:51:49] <zeeshan|2> 2 signal
[04:51:50] <zeeshan|2> 1 shield
[04:51:56] <norias> hmm.
[04:52:00] <norias> ok
[04:52:00] <zeeshan|2> then +/- for motor
[04:52:06] <zeeshan|2> unless you have no shield?
[04:52:08] <zeeshan|2> which is very weird :)
[04:52:11] <norias> i'll have to look again tomorrow
[04:52:28] <Bushman> disection of corpses!
[04:52:29] <zeeshan|2> but you must have tachometer for that little #of wires
[04:52:30] <Bushman> FUN!
[04:52:33] <norias> would you really need a good tach if it also has a rotary encoder?
[04:52:33] <Bushman> :D
[04:52:48] <zeeshan|2> that i dont know
[04:52:51] <zeeshan|2> mine uses tachometer
[04:52:53] <zeeshan|2> w/ absolute encoder
[04:52:54] <PetefromTn_> Here's a stupid question if you are rigid tapping a left hand thread using G33.1 how is this accomplished? If you had G84 or G74 one or the other is the reverse...
[04:54:22] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: maybe just turn the spindle the opposite way?
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[04:54:24] <zeeshan|2> before g33.1
[04:54:53] <norias> sounds right to me
[04:55:14] <norias> it's just syncing z mooves to spindle revolutions
[04:55:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am trying to get my Cam to cooperate and output the correct programming..
[04:56:14] <norias> hah
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[04:56:27] <norias> write that part by hand
[04:56:42] <norias> faster than getting angry cam to cooperate
[04:56:53] <norias> imho
[04:57:06] <PetefromTn_> no thanks...
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[04:57:37] <norias> do everything else with cam
[04:57:41] <norias> and add in the rigid tapping
[04:57:51] <zeeshan|2> i tried to setup g33.1 w/ cam
[04:57:54] <norias> i rarely trust cam to get tapping right, anyway
[04:58:17] <zeeshan|2> i gave up
[04:58:21] <zeeshan|2> ended up just using g33 :P
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[04:58:56] <zeeshan|2> whoops i misxed that up. not g33.1 , g76
[05:02:15] <PetefromTn_> sure would be easier if linuxCNC used G84/74
[05:02:31] <norias> hmmm...
[05:02:32] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: what cam are you using
[05:02:40] <norias> i don't think 74/84 sync the spindle
[05:02:44] <PetefromTn_> CamBam
[05:02:52] <norias> because i think those are for floating tapping heads
[05:04:23] <norias> ymmv
[05:07:11] <PetefromTn_> well it was on all the HAAS machines I have run. Rigid tap G84/74 http://diy.haascnc.com/g-codes-mills
[05:07:51] <norias> fair
[05:08:11] <norias> and f haas anyway
[05:08:25] * norias grumbles about conditionals and loops.
[05:09:21] <PetefromTn_> sorry you feel that way. I found them to be quite nice and realiable machines.
[05:09:42] <norias> yeah, they are actually pretty nice
[05:09:56] <norias> i like everything but the control interface :)
[05:10:16] <PetefromTn_> thats actually what I like about them most
[05:10:47] <norias> huh.
[05:11:02] <norias> i hear that a bit.
[05:11:28] <norias> i think milltronics crushes them from a control standpoint
[05:11:37] <zeeshan|2> f that
[05:11:41] <zeeshan|2> fanuc and simnuerik!
[05:11:48] <norias> ha1
[05:11:52] <norias> anilam!
[05:11:57] <norias> that's where i started
[05:11:59] <PetefromTn_> haas is basically a fanuc control
[05:12:08] <norias> actually, anilam sucked.
[05:12:22] <zeeshan|2> actually im gonna say this
[05:12:26] <zeeshan|2> Screw all industrial control
[05:12:29] <zeeshan|2> and their propietary bs
[05:12:37] <zeeshan|2> LINUXCNC + MESA FTW
[05:12:43] <PetefromTn_> fer sure..
[05:12:59] <zeeshan|2> fanuc is the worst i would think
[05:12:59] <PetefromTn_> mine ran beautifully all Freakin' day long making chips today again...
[05:13:02] <zeeshan|2> all their shit is top scret
[05:13:04] <norias> heidenhein is pretty bad
[05:13:09] <zeeshan|2> norias: oh trust me
[05:13:10] <zeeshan|2> i know!
[05:13:22] <zeeshan|2> i just got rid of a heidenhain control
[05:13:26] <zeeshan|2> tnc155
[05:13:32] <norias> i ran some 3,4 and 5 axis machines on those
[05:13:40] <norias> never really got the hang of that language
[05:13:42] <zeeshan|2> im only keeping the scales from heidenhain
[05:13:48] <PetefromTn_> I just wish LinuxCNC used more industry standard G-codes like G84/74 etc..and a few others.
[05:13:50] <norias> i hear those scales are pretty good
[05:14:04] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: honestly linuxcnc has it all pretty much
[05:14:17] <zeeshan|2> if cam post processors worked for linuxcnc out of the box, that would be sweet
[05:14:17] <PetefromTn_> how ya figure
[05:14:25] <zeeshan|2> you dont need that extra stuff man
[05:14:30] <zeeshan|2> all those canned cycles etc
[05:14:36] <PetefromTn_> BS
[05:14:37] <zeeshan|2> if youre doing it by hand, yea it makes sense
[05:14:41] <zeeshan|2> but if you're using cam
[05:14:43] <zeeshan|2> who cares?
[05:14:52] <norias> i'm 50/50 some days with cam
[05:14:58] <zeeshan|2> what diff does it make to use say a g33 vs g76
[05:15:02] <PetefromTn_> I AM using cam and I would LOVE to use G84 heh
[05:15:03] <zeeshan|2> g76 is one line
[05:15:06] <zeeshan|2> g33 is like 20
[05:15:15] <PetefromTn_> ?
[05:15:31] <PetefromTn_> and the K factor is proving difficult
[05:15:51] <PetefromTn_> G33.1 Z-0.750 K0.05 (rigid tap a 20 TPI thread 0.750 deep)
[05:16:29] <zeeshan|2> what do you mean its difficult?
[05:16:29] <t12_> hi all
[05:16:35] <t12_> servo tuning question
[05:16:39] <norias> yeah, i missed the hard part there
[05:16:53] <PetefromTn_> I mean I have not been able to get my CAM to output it
[05:17:00] <t12_> i have a servo driving a centrifuge
[05:17:04] <zeeshan|2> that likely isn't a variable
[05:17:10] <norias> oh, so it's a CAM problem
[05:17:11] <PetefromTn_> when I have rigid tapped I had to hand code it which is a PIA
[05:17:11] <zeeshan|2> you might need to write a new variable
[05:17:18] <t12_> tuning it is .... weird
[05:17:36] <zeeshan|2> actually u dont need a new variable
[05:17:41] <t12_> are there any established procedures for servo tuning when you know you're going to have way more mass tied up in the work
[05:17:42] <zeeshan|2> you just need to do 1/tpi
[05:17:45] <zeeshan|2> need to find tpi variable
[05:17:45] <t12_> than in the drive chain?
[05:17:57] <PetefromTn_> trying to remember how you set it up in mastercam for a rigid tap....been awhile
[05:18:10] <zeeshan|2> i dont know if the post processor is the same
[05:18:14] <zeeshan|2> but it uses some random langauge
[05:18:17] <zeeshan|2> to spit out g-code
[05:18:29] <PetefromTn_> you have mastercam right?
[05:18:32] <zeeshan|2> yea
[05:18:42] <zeeshan|2> i needed to find out when i write 20tpi in cam gui
[05:18:49] <PetefromTn_> when you program the tap in the software what did it ask for?
[05:18:51] <zeeshan|2> what variable in the cam post porcessor relates to that
[05:19:19] <PetefromTn_> trying to setup CAMBAM to work similarly
[05:19:23] <zeeshan|2> lead, included angle, thread angle
[05:19:31] <zeeshan|2> thread depth, major diameter, minor diameter
[05:19:39] <zeeshan|2> but you clicked "Select from table"
[05:19:40] <PetefromTn_> on mill?
[05:19:54] <zeeshan|2> and chose the thread type and it filled all of it for you
[05:19:57] <zeeshan|2> no for lathe
[05:20:02] <zeeshan|2> for rigid tapping you just need to find out tpi
[05:20:08] <zeeshan|2> masteram has a table for that
[05:20:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know lathe is different because you are single point threading or whatever I am talking about a simple rigid tap
[05:20:33] <PetefromTn_> in mill mode
[05:21:00] <zeeshan|2> i 'd think you'd only need depth of thread
[05:21:04] <zeeshan|2> and tpi
[05:21:23] <PetefromTn_> thats what I thought but I don't remember
[05:21:30] <zeeshan|2> or if you dont wanna use g33.1
[05:21:37] <zeeshan|2> actually nm
[05:21:40] <zeeshan|2> you could use eitehr g33 or g33.1
[05:21:55] <PetefromTn_> in mastercam mill?
[05:21:55] <zeeshan|2> with g33 you'll need to do a g01 at the end of the trhead
[05:21:56] <PetefromTn_> how
[05:22:41] <zeeshan|2> fuck sorry man
[05:22:42] <zeeshan|2> i keep thinking lathe
[05:22:44] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[05:23:06] <zeeshan|2> if you wanted to use g33, itd be a bit more involved
[05:23:32] <zeeshan|2> you'd do like m3 (run spindle clockwise)
[05:23:40] <PetefromTn_> LOL When I get my CNC lathe up and running we'll talk hehe
[05:23:51] <zeeshan|2> g33 k0.05
[05:23:56] <zeeshan|2> g01 distance of thread
[05:24:15] <zeeshan|2> at end of thread you'd call m4
[05:24:22] <zeeshan|2> and g01 back up the thread
[05:24:34] <zeeshan|2> but im thinkng, that might not work as good, because g33.1 prolly has a dwell somewhere
[05:24:38] <zeeshan|2> to slow down towards the end of the thread
[05:24:47] <PetefromTn_> G33.1 takes care of all of that
[05:24:49] <zeeshan|2> yea
[05:25:01] <PetefromTn_> just need the depth and feed per rev.
[05:25:14] <PetefromTn_> it is the feed per rev I am having trouble outputting here.
[05:26:01] <zeeshan|2> okay you need to figure figure out if its a left hand or right hand thread
[05:26:09] <zeeshan|2> so the first g-code it outputs is the correct spindle direction
[05:26:28] <zeeshan|2> then find the post procesor line that is outputting g74 for example
[05:27:09] <zeeshan|2> change it to g33.1? :P
[05:27:13] <PetefromTn_> well the rotation is setup in the previous line
[05:27:17] <Bushman> FML. "Arc move in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without gouging"
[05:27:21] <PetefromTn_> that is already done
[05:28:03] <PetefromTn_> already got it to output the G33.1 but it wants to give me an F instead of the K and it is actual feedrate which won't work
[05:28:09] <Bushman> so in other words tool compensation can't compensate for two arcs meeting at small angle ;/
[05:28:45] <zeeshan|2> what is the feedrate its trying to output
[05:29:01] <zeeshan|2> when you do 20 tpi
[05:29:32] <PetefromTn_> G99 G33.1 Z-.35 R.1 F44.57 that is what I am getting for a 3/8-16 to -.35 deep right now
[05:30:09] <Bushman> i thought that AXIS is ploting a tool path that goes along the line and just ignores places it can't reach... it does that for squares, why can't it do the same for two arcs meeting in a concave corner?
[05:30:12] <zeeshan|2> wonder where the hell its getting 44.57
[05:30:13] <zeeshan|2> haha
[05:30:26] <PetefromTn_> feedrate
[05:30:38] <zeeshan|2> 44.57 ipm
[05:30:53] <zeeshan|2> can you find out the variable that is storing 16?
[05:31:32] <PetefromTn_> G99 G33.1 Z-.35 R.1 F12.5
[05:31:43] <PetefromTn_> oops sorry I fat fingered the spindle speed
[05:31:51] <PetefromTn_> that second one is at 200 RPM
[05:32:15] <zeeshan|2> whats R
[05:32:24] <PetefromTn_> retract plane I think
[05:32:36] <zeeshan|2> theres gotta be something in the post prcessoer
[05:32:39] <zeeshan|2> that has tpi in it
[05:32:45] <PetefromTn_> don't want that in there either I think..
[05:32:50] <zeeshan|2> yea dont want that :P
[05:32:52] <zeeshan|2> just delete it
[05:33:04] <zeeshan|2> or you might need it
[05:33:12] <zeeshan|2> so that it knows how high to bring the tap after its done
[05:33:23] <PetefromTn_> well what I am TRYING to get to is to be able to just post code without fucking with it afterwards....
[05:33:36] <zeeshan|2> its like this man
[05:33:41] <zeeshan|2> it takes forever to fuck with this stupid crap
[05:33:47] <zeeshan|2> just to output a simple g-code
[05:33:52] <PetefromTn_> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G33_1-Rigid-Tapping
[05:33:53] <zeeshan|2> thats why i gave up on nx
[05:33:55] <zeeshan|2> its the worst.
[05:34:21] <zeeshan|2> and mastercam's post processor is so ugh
[05:34:27] <zeeshan|2> that it combines lathe, milling, 5 axis,
[05:34:30] <zeeshan|2> lathe+milling
[05:34:32] <zeeshan|2> all ine one.
[05:34:34] <PetefromTn_> well actually what takes FOREVER is continually having to hand code shit because your CAM program doesn't talk nice to your LinuxCNC machine
[05:34:37] <zeeshan|2> so finding something is a nightmare
[05:34:55] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: you know whats funny?
[05:35:05] <zeeshan|2> i had this retarded F that woudn't change to a P i believe
[05:35:10] <zeeshan|2> whatever i was doing with g76
[05:35:14] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: i'm having this exact issue just now
[05:35:22] <zeeshan|2> i ended up passing the file through a bash script
[05:35:24] <zeeshan|2> in linux..
[05:35:34] <zeeshan|2> to replace the damn F with a P
[05:35:41] <zeeshan|2> whenever it say an occurence of g76
[05:35:45] <zeeshan|2> i still havent figured it out
[05:35:49] <zeeshan|2> how to spit it properly.
[05:35:53] <PetefromTn_> this would be simpler if linuxCNC just took standard G84/74 codes
[05:35:56] <Bushman> "Arc move in concave corner cannot be reached by the tool without gouging" and i have no idea how to walk around it
[05:36:07] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: i wouldn't blame linuxcnc
[05:36:16] <zeeshan|2> mastercam makes thousands of dollars
[05:36:20] <PetefromTn_> why?
[05:36:24] <zeeshan|2> to write a special post processor for a specific machine
[05:36:28] <zeeshan|2> because all controls are dif man
[05:36:43] <PetefromTn_> sure but those are pretty well standard codes in industry
[05:36:58] <zeeshan|2> i bet they dont exist in a sinumerik control
[05:37:16] <PetefromTn_> never heard of a sinumerik control really
[05:37:22] <Bushman> that seriously limits my design options. i can't make two arcs meet at the same point :(
[05:37:23] <zeeshan|2> its a siemens control
[05:37:26] <zeeshan|2> its on a lot of german machines
[05:37:32] <zeeshan|2> am using G74 for Auto Referencing in Linear axis, When I Commend G74
[05:37:32] <zeeshan|2> lol
[05:37:37] <zeeshan|2> its something else in sinumerik.
[05:38:26] <PetefromTn_> Bushman sounds like the tool won't fit in the corner you drew IE the corner radius is smaller then the tool radius
[05:39:23] <zeeshan|2> g84 looks slightly diff in centriiod control too
[05:39:28] <zeeshan|2> it needs a P (dwell time)
[05:39:31] <zeeshan|2> at bottom of hole?
[05:39:34] <zeeshan|2> or is that the same in haas
[05:41:18] <zeeshan|2> PetefromTn_: the reason i think its not common
[05:41:29] <zeeshan|2> not "linuxcnc's fault"
[05:41:36] <zeeshan|2> is the existence of this website: http://www.mastercam.com/en-us/Solutions/3rd-Party-Solutions/Post-Processor-Services
[05:42:02] <PetefromTn_> G84 Z-0.600 R0.2 F56.25 S900(900 rpm divided by 16 tpi = 56.25 ipm) that's a HAAS rigid tap line
[05:42:22] <zeeshan|2> ahhhh
[05:42:47] <zeeshan|2> thats how you got 12.5
[05:42:48] <zeeshan|2> 200/16
[05:42:59] <zeeshan|2> so just do
[05:43:11] <zeeshan|2> whatever the feedrate number it's outputting * spindle rpm
[05:43:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah and that is basically how they setup in all the shops I worked in...
[05:43:29] <zeeshan|2> K = 1/(whatever the feedrate number it's outputting * spindle rpm)
[05:43:38] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[05:43:46] <zeeshan|2> you cracked the code :D
[05:43:50] <PetefromTn_> just can't seem to get the post to do it LOL
[05:43:57] <zeeshan|2> in your post processor
[05:44:00] <zeeshan|2> can you multiple numbers?
[05:44:07] <PetefromTn_> not sure
[05:44:19] <PetefromTn_> I am going to mess with it here this convo gave me some ideas...
[05:44:26] <PetefromTn_> thanks for the help
[05:44:51] <PetefromTn_> right now I need to get this damn part programmed so since it is just one freakin' hole I will just hand code the bastard.
[05:45:25] * PetefromTn_ <===== HATES HAND CODING
[05:45:27] <zeeshan|2> np man
[05:45:28] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[05:45:30] <zeeshan|2> me too man
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[06:02:12] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: it wasn't a problem with squares
[06:02:28] <Bushman> PetefromTn_: the radius wa 0 in the,
[06:03:07] <Bushman> http://bushman.pl/misc/screenshots/dxf2gcode_test.png
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[06:10:29] <Bushman> so no tool compensation for me after all.
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[06:18:17] <PetefromTn_> Bushman sorry I was not aware of the shapes..
[06:18:28] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to do?
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[06:36:03] <witnit> just ordered my 7i92 today im gwon be sooooooooooo happy
[06:37:53] <The_Ball> PetefromTn_, tried LinuxCNC-Features?
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[06:53:50] <witnit> does anyone have suggestions for fanless motherboard and fanless power supplys?
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[07:22:45] <archivist> do you really need fanless, the cutting process is noisy
[07:23:06] <witnit> :) yeah it would be nice
[07:23:19] <witnit> there is no monitor keyboard or mouse on this machine
[07:23:48] <witnit> just reboot and everything is starting automatic and running without a remote access
[07:23:56] <archivist> silent motors needed too?
[07:24:06] <witnit> no motors
[07:24:17] <witnit> just on/off relays
[07:24:27] <witnit> and prox switches
[07:25:03] <witnit> its currently running from usb stick
[07:25:09] <witnit> ssd would be nice
[07:26:56] <witnit> the reason for fanless is due to enviroment and the air is too bad to filter
[07:29:39] <archivist> you still have to then use convection to get rid of the heat, often when that is the case there are internal fans circulating the air to take heat from parts to the inner wall of the box, with ribbing on the inner and outer
[07:32:29] <witnit> i will be running without x, the cpu/gpu simply wont put out tha much heat i dont think
[07:32:55] <witnit> i can always point a fan at it if the system overheats
[07:35:54] <archivist> you can design for convection, it just needs wider spacing on the heatsinks and vertical walls
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[07:37:04] <XXCoder> why want no fans?
[07:39:23] <witnit> oily mist in the enviroment, mucks up the internals of any open-airflow systems, and also reduced size
[07:39:54] <XXCoder> water cooler?
[07:40:01] <zeeshan|2> witnit
[07:40:02] <witnit> too much money
[07:40:04] <zeeshan|2> one of my computers uses this:
[07:40:04] <XXCoder> that way everything is sealed
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[07:40:20] <witnit> zeeshan
[07:40:30] <zeeshan|2> https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNGlZEZ0iTHbA0mNAIE7hlT7yFNXwpp8a1TK2TvQisofCwwis9EA
[07:40:32] <zeeshan|2> er
[07:40:35] <zeeshan|2> http://www.quietpc.com/images/products/asus-triton75-large.jpg
[07:40:36] <archivist> I have a couple of cases here that would eat that job, the back wall is a heatsink extenal fins, internally it all bolts to the rear wall
[07:41:07] <XXCoder> pretty cool http://www.genomicon.com/2009/10/stirling-engine-cpu-cooler/
[07:41:13] <witnit> overkill
[07:41:14] <XXCoder> its literally powered by heat
[07:41:23] <zeeshan|2> haha thats awesome
[07:41:41] <XXCoder> even if blackout happens it will keep on trucking to keep cpu cool
[07:41:52] <XXCoder> in least till it evens out
[07:41:53] <witnit> ok i might do this
[07:42:26] <witnit> i have an extra copper core pentium cooler heatsink, i can surely make an engine for it
[07:42:57] <zeeshan|2> haha XXCoder
[07:43:05] <witnit> still need a simple mini-itx
[07:44:08] <XXCoder> it never moved behind prototype sadly
[07:44:41] <XXCoder> I still want to build my own stirling engine
[07:44:50] <witnit> do it
[07:44:54] <XXCoder> powerful enough to liqudify air.
[07:44:59] <XXCoder> nah no machines to make parts
[07:45:06] <witnit> :/
[07:45:20] <witnit> but how do you even...
[07:45:26] <witnit> you need a lathe
[07:45:42] <XXCoder> yeah lathe is almost enough on its own
[07:45:55] <XXCoder> expecially type umm b I think
[07:46:02] <XXCoder> A you need more than just lathe
[07:46:30] <witnit> drills, taps, lathe will do you wonders
[07:46:58] <XXCoder> http://citizensciencequarterly.com/2011/05/liquid-nitrogen-generator/
[07:47:54] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: now thats a COOL project
[07:47:56] <zeeshan|2> bookmarked.
[07:48:11] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can get argon
[07:48:13] <XXCoder> it does not say how to make or where to make stirling b type though
[07:49:00] <XXCoder> type B is perfect since it just has one cylender
[07:49:06] <XXCoder> perfect for air liquidifer
[07:49:19] <XXCoder> type A is best if you want referator or something
[07:49:44] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
[07:49:48] <XXCoder> it has nifty graphics
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[07:49:56] <zeeshan|2> yea ive seen a stirling engine
[07:50:02] <zeeshan|2> but that liquid n2 is COOL
[07:50:07] <XXCoder> yeah
[07:50:08] <zeeshan|2> 1L per da!
[07:50:40] <XXCoder> I bet ya with more you can get it even colder
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[07:53:56] <XXCoder> variant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_bGkztd7t0
[08:00:20] <XXCoder> zeeshan|2: you plan to make stiring part yourself too?
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[08:12:12] <Deejay> moin
[08:13:43] <archivist> witnit, this sort or design http://s3.electronics-cooling.com/legacy_images/1998/01/a2fig2.gif
[08:13:48] <archivist> or/of
[08:14:09] <XXCoder> hey
[08:16:09] <witnit> yes but really this software can run on very low requirments, why do i need to worry about heat so much
[08:16:26] <XXCoder> probably underclock?
[08:17:15] <witnit> that would make sense
[08:17:18] <archivist> witnit, make something, measure the internal temperature, then worry or not
[08:17:49] <archivist> 50 deg c or above is worry
[08:17:59] <witnit> yeah thats what im thinking, i just thought maybe fanless power supplies were more popular
[08:18:04] <witnit> and pcs
[08:18:59] <archivist> even if a psu has a fan you can use the case wall without holes to remove the heat
[08:20:21] <witnit> right, i plan to build te case from aluminum
[08:20:23] <XXCoder> external heat sinks on case?
[08:20:27] <archivist> a decent fanless switcher should be ok just not a cheap chinese psu
[08:20:32] <witnit> the case is the heatsink
[08:20:40] <XXCoder> it could be self contained fans to spread heat to case
[08:20:47] <XXCoder> zero air exchange
[08:21:06] <witnit> right, closed circuit is fine
[08:21:15] <witnit> but fans still fail
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[08:21:32] <XXCoder> not when case has no air holes
[08:21:41] <witnit> i just want to sit this thing and forget it
[08:21:43] <XXCoder> well besides normal aging
[08:21:52] <archivist> fans fail always, they are mechanical
[08:21:59] <witnit> if there is vibration the fans will not have the same lifespan i feel
[08:22:08] <witnit> unless i put pn good ones
[08:22:17] <XXCoder> archivist: pretty good secret: fan has oil holes under sticker
[08:22:26] <XXCoder> decent quality ones does anyway
[08:22:49] <archivist> XXCoder, I spent a while oiling fans a week ago, been doing it for years
[08:22:52] <witnit> it just seems best to keep this as simple and compact as possible since there will be nothing but power supply and one ethernet cable attached
[08:23:06] <XXCoder> nice
[08:23:17] <XXCoder> heh my fans always manage to last very long time
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[08:23:27] <archivist> and they are still noisy!
[08:24:00] <witnit> i throttle mine manually :/ probably not the best way, but is better for gaming
[08:24:08] <Jymmm> archivist: Not as noisy as the failing ones on the 24p switch under my desk =)
[08:24:08] <XXCoder> bigass heat sinks then heh
[08:25:01] <Jymmm> or the 4x 15,000 RPM 1.5" fans I have
[08:25:13] <Jymmm> on a 1U server
[08:25:29] <Jymmm> hostname = BANSHEE
[08:26:01] <witnit> i thought about putting in a hole undermy desk and venting cool air into my cpu tower so i could keep it quiet
[08:26:05] <Jymmm> You just have to walk near the isle in the data center to know which cabinet it's in
[08:26:16] <witnit> so from the crawlspace to the pc
[08:26:23] <archivist> Jymmm, that PC has 4 disk caddy, gpu, cpu, psu and 4 disk drives rattling
[08:26:45] <Jymmm> archivist: Ah, you dont believe in mounting hardware I see =)
[08:27:10] <archivist> 3 mounted and one caddy for transfer
[08:27:29] <Jymmm> archivist: heh, it's okey I think it's a PITA too =)
[08:28:14] <Jymmm> I sorta really have no use for them, but want to order some Fahnestock Clips
[08:28:15] <witnit> I had an old quantum bigfoot for years that made all sorts of racket but it was so nostalgic i enjoyed using it
[08:30:14] <Jymmm> http://www.enasco.com/prod/images/products/4C/AC008191l.jpg
[08:31:15] <Jymmm> make good allen wrench holders too
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[08:51:00] <Bushman> Pete left before i could answer :(
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[09:06:43] <Jymmm> Does anyoen know of a QUALITY stripper that can do this cleanly? http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQxOFgxNjAw/z/KD8AAMXQNo5TcKzM/$_57.JPG
[09:07:56] <witnit> Yeah but i dont think she would like me sharing her name on some chat
[09:08:10] <witnit> ohhh that kind of stripp
[09:10:23] <Bushman> i do
[09:10:35] <Bushman> Jymmm: but they don't sell them anymore XD
[09:10:45] <witnit> stripmaster may have something you need
[09:11:01] <Bushman> it is polish product back from the 90's
[09:11:07] <Jymmm> Bushman: the dinosaur ones?
[09:11:22] <Bushman> more of a crocodile but yea :D
[09:12:10] <Jymmm> Bushman: A quality version of this??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-Wire-Stripper-With-Cable-Cutter-Multifunctional-Terminal-Tool-/261635262759?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ceaad4927
[09:12:11] <Bushman> my father still uses them. tho somewhere along the way he made a mistake and stripped a tooth... the rest works fine for all these years
[09:12:31] <Bushman> ugh... fugly shit... Jymmm don't buy those
[09:12:40] <witnit> no buy those
[09:12:47] <Jymmm> Bushman: No, I was asking if that is what you were talking about
[09:13:20] <Bushman> no. the construction is mostly the same but those are crappy quality
[09:13:28] <Jymmm> of course
[09:13:33] <Bushman> i'll try to find the model my dad's using
[09:14:27] <witnit> i think you can buy custom blades for the stripmaster
[09:14:55] <witnit> so depending on how many and what size you ribbon is, you can do the whole ribbon at once
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[09:18:23] <Jymmm> Nice idea... http://hackaday.com/2012/02/03/printable-wire-stripper-lights-up-when-you-hit-the-conductor/
[09:19:46] <witnit> dont use your teeth
[09:20:52] <Jymmm> I used to have an adjustable pair of those dinosaur strippers, worked great till they broke.
[09:23:47] <Jymmm> Kinda like these... http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw8/yjfvvd1/products/518/images/2110/YY_78_318__27078.1407966022.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
[09:24:05] <Jymmm> the knob adjusts the tension
[09:24:29] <Jymmm> the orange thing is a length stop block
[09:24:53] <Jymmm> But I'd like a QUALITY pair
[09:25:08] <witnit> irwin self adjusting isnt too bad but if you get too small of wires it just destroys it
[09:25:39] <witnit> it also does not do well with rubber wriggler stle wire
[09:25:44] <witnit> you know that goooood stuff
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[09:37:43] <Jymmm> CRAP http://carpentermfg.com/product/model-48/
[09:38:46] <witnit> 6,000 lmao
[09:39:33] <witnit> you could do better yourself with a sufrace grinder making grooves on some old garden snips
[09:40:32] <witnit> just make your own set of blades for those stripmaster brand ones
[09:41:00] <witnit> you will probably be happiest if you always use the same type of wire often
[09:41:07] <Jymmm> witnit: link?
[09:41:18] <witnit> ebay, stripmaster
[09:41:21] <witnit> im on console here
[09:41:23] <Jymmm> witnit: link?
[09:41:32] <Jymmm> not helpful at all
[09:41:36] <Jymmm> modle#
[09:41:40] <Jymmm> part#
[09:41:41] <Jymmm> etc
[09:41:42] <witnit> sutom
[09:41:44] <witnit> custom
[09:41:53] <witnit> just google stripmaster custom
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[10:07:18] <Loetmichel2> *soooo*... next prototype ready for the Spectrum analyzer chamber... if it meets specs -> building a small series of 10 and then powder coat it and ship it to the customer... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15514
[10:07:50] <Loetmichel2> ... alMg3 is a nice sheet metal, bending by hand is really easy
[10:08:01] <Loetmichel2> :-)
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[10:13:21] <Computer_Barf> http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/zip/4834353955.html
[10:13:35] <Computer_Barf> i just contacted this person on craiglist
[10:14:06] <Computer_Barf> "currently under power" does that mean currently hooked to power?
[10:14:09] <witnit> tis beautiful
[10:14:14] Loetmichel2 is now known as Loetmichel
[10:14:27] <archivist> yes
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[10:16:12] <Computer_Barf> i figure even if its junk the iron would hold value
[10:16:35] <Computer_Barf> a working lathe for free would be amazing
[10:17:42] <witnit> looks like a richy bit of town you might be surprised hw nice it is
[10:18:36] <Jymmm> craftsman lathe..... hmmmm
[10:18:59] <witnit> ohh craftsmman..
[10:20:51] <Bushman> fucking hypocrite, my dad...
[10:20:55] <Bushman> cutting his PCB is perfectly fine and the noise is not a problem... cutting my stuff 5 minutes later, "it's a holiday! people want peace and quiet!!!"
[10:21:14] <Computer_Barf> lol
[10:22:57] <Jymmm> Computer_Barf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srdCd5tCb9E
[10:23:25] <Computer_Barf> 30's lol
[10:23:49] <Computer_Barf> shit if it turns metal though superior to nothing
[10:24:00] <witnit> you would be happy if it was that one
[10:24:22] <witnit> an older craftsman would treat most people really well to learn on
[10:24:35] <witnit> like a #109 maybe
[10:24:50] <Computer_Barf> is something like that capable of threading?
[10:25:14] <witnit> after you add the servos :)
[10:26:00] <Computer_Barf> would the spindle need to be servo or would you just put an encoder on it?
[10:26:09] <witnit> there is this group of guys that make this software, goes on linux, i think they cll it EMC or somthing would totally cut threads
[10:26:17] <Computer_Barf> lol
[10:26:54] <Bushman> latest batch, waiting to be assembled: http://i.imgur.com/lVJpGTE.jpg
[10:27:11] <Computer_Barf> fucking cute
[10:27:39] <witnit> oooh, you getting your honeydew list finished up hmm bushman?
[10:28:02] <Jymmm> pacman earrings?
[10:28:21] <Computer_Barf> pretty brillient choice
[10:28:37] <witnit> agreed
[10:28:38] <Computer_Barf> i bet those sell all day
[10:28:56] <Bushman> honeydew list?
[10:28:59] <Bushman> Jymmm: yea :D
[10:29:09] <Jymmm> other than the fact they are under license?
[10:30:13] <Computer_Barf> and now china is making millions of them
[10:30:28] <witnit> yeah, you get a lady around and shes always like later could you do this for me honey, yeah and i need a pacman and honey could you do the eyes a little different
[10:30:34] <witnit> honeydew
[10:30:56] <Bushman> oh come on, people make licensed stuff all day long, it's not like i'm doing dozens of them,
[10:31:05] <Bushman> just few pairs for on-line friends
[10:31:14] <Jymmm> if they are gifts, no problem.
[10:31:34] <Computer_Barf> sell them to shops
[10:31:41] <Bushman> besides i have no official business that i could sell those from
[10:32:00] <Computer_Barf> ebay
[10:32:06] <Bushman> Computer_Barf: now that would be problematic :P i would need the license for that XD
[10:32:20] <Computer_Barf> bah
[10:32:34] <Computer_Barf> too many scurples
[10:32:35] <Jymmm> Computer_Barf: Great!, then you wouldn't mind signing and notorizing this realse and authorization from?
[10:32:47] <Jymmm> form*
[10:32:55] <witnit> fram
[10:33:03] <witnit> FRAMED
[10:34:57] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pac+man&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xpac+man+ear+ring&_nkw=pac+man+ear+rings&_sacat=0
[10:35:08] <Computer_Barf> im sure all of this is legit, right?
[10:35:39] <witnit> considering the billions of terabytes of illegal pirated movies go shared every second
[10:36:08] <witnit> i dont personally know anyone who has even been charged
[10:36:29] <witnit> i doubt a couple pacmans will wind you up in prison
[10:36:40] <Computer_Barf> http://www.ebay.com/itm/pac-man-earrings-studs-emo-retro-pink-/260709962066?pt=UK_JewelleryWatches_WomensJewellery_Rings_SR&hash=item3cb3865152
[10:36:43] <Computer_Barf> looks official
[10:38:06] <mrsun> a bicycle chain .. "stiffness" compared to a steel cable ?
[10:38:11] <mrsun> should be alot stiffer right ?
[10:38:34] <Computer_Barf> you would probably just get a cease and decist , or a copywrite claim on the ebay listing
[10:38:39] <Tom_itx> depends on the cable
[10:38:52] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm .. is there different types? =)
[10:38:55] <archivist> and chain
[10:38:56] <Tom_itx> the chain will stretch
[10:38:57] <mrsun> ordenary harware store cable :P
[10:39:10] <Tom_itx> archivist, he clarified 'bicycle' chain
[10:39:17] <Tom_itx> that narrows the size down a bit
[10:39:19] <mrsun> my cable seem to be stretchng .. or something else is flexing somewhere
[10:39:26] <archivist> even then it varies
[10:39:57] <Tom_itx> the chain will probably stretch more
[10:39:59] <mrsun> if i had some kind of heavy duty weight measuring system i guess one could measure flex with indicators =)
[10:40:16] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm .. .but a chain isnt spun ... spiraled
[10:40:20] <archivist> flex or stretch?
[10:40:46] <mrsun> http://www.wattoo.dk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/700x500/db2b9889405e9db0b78cf71d8e7a875b/7/d/7dfaa7f9-89d9-4c67-b9fc-9fc707552e8e.JPG.jpg
[10:40:49] <archivist> flex is bending/twisting
[10:41:09] <mrsun> archivist: yes ... something is moving on my machine ... either the wire is stretching .. or something else is flexing =)
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[10:41:13] <Computer_Barf> you know what would be good is the question mark blocks from mario bro's
[10:41:46] <Tom_itx> http://www.kronowit.com/bicycling/chainstretch.html
[10:42:04] <Tom_itx> maybe the cable is wearing into the pulleys as well
[10:42:22] <mrsun> Tom_itx: hmm but that is stretch over time
[10:42:49] <mrsun> i mean chock "springiness" .. if i say it like that then?
[10:43:01] <Tom_itx> that's different
[10:43:15] <archivist> people often overlook machine member bending
[10:43:48] <mrsun> archivist: yes .. i have bending and im adressing that issue today probably =)
[10:43:52] <archivist> DTI and lean on parts to find the problem
[10:44:07] <mrsun> the side rail supports that the wire is tied to is bending when i tighten the wire .. quite alot =)
[10:44:10] <archivist> add stiffening webs too
[10:44:55] <mrsun> gonna add supports almost in line with the pulleys that hold the wire from one side to the other to keep the beams from bending when tightening the cable =)
[10:45:11] <mrsun> but was thinking of chaning to chain as i understand its supposed to be alot stiffer than wire rope
[10:45:32] <Tom_itx> support the pulleys on both sides instead of one
[10:45:48] <Tom_itx> that will equalize the tension
[10:45:49] <archivist> the frame resists the stress in the same was cable or chain, makes little difference
[10:45:52] <mrsun> Tom_itx: that is also true ... alot of mistakes on this machine that should be adressed =)
[10:46:19] <Computer_Barf> have any of you guys milled any kinds of stone?
[10:46:23] <mrsun> archivist: yes but initial tightening of the chain vs cable is different i guess
[10:46:32] <archivist> no
[10:46:34] <mrsun> as a stiff chain will need alot less tightening then a springy cable
[10:46:56] <mrsun> as i have to torque quite good on the cable to get the spring out of it
[10:47:15] <witnit> maybe there is a specially braided cable which is not prone to gaining length under a load
[10:47:21] <Loetmichel> Mr_Sheesh: i wpuldnt say that a chain has neccessarily mess "spring" in it than a steel wire cable
[10:47:26] <archivist> get straight unbent cable
[10:47:27] <Loetmichel> less
[10:48:57] <mrsun> archivist: humm ... and where the heck do you get that ?
[10:49:05] <mrsun> all cable in hardware stores etc is twisted type ...
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[10:50:16] <mrsun> it has to be able to turn over a 40mm pulley also ... like 270 degrees :P
[10:50:24] <witnit> do you have a photo of your project?
[10:51:30] <mrsun> https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1383492_10151904894628648_353794229_n.jpg?oh=0061890d0a8d6fc2fb426bd8e1f5a8df&oe=55305D20
[10:51:32] <mrsun> there the wires shows
[10:51:53] <mrsun> and yes, could use alot more stiffening here and there =) and like i said .. im adressing some of it today =)
[10:52:00] <mrsun> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1383881_10151904894568648_1860741487_n.jpg?oh=391ddfb0491be67390b0649cb13a16a4&oe=55261959&__gda__=1430605357_59fc432c1dab97a9cf9edd4780a98140
[10:52:43] <mrsun> got some places that realy can be twisting on the machine .. to little expierence when building :P
[10:53:12] <mrsun> https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1005366_10151836852923648_362473394_n.jpg?oh=13469a2355d95198b15c88225b1a7d7e&oe=5525C9C1&__gda__=1433340059_953e7f23cda76645c3a246abaae9ac59 like those, only held in place with M10 bolts =)
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[10:54:23] <mrsun> so when pusing the non driving side i got flex of like 1 - 2cm in something
[10:54:35] <mrsun> and that makes ALOT of instability when routing at the far end =)
[10:54:59] <archivist> a lot drive both sides
[10:55:28] <mrsun> archivist: i drive both sides but using a cable with a single drive source
[10:55:32] <mrsun> thats why i want it to be stiff =)
[10:55:36] <mrsun> so other side wont flex
[10:56:10] <archivist> single? is this a thing bar that has torsional twist
[10:56:18] <archivist> thin
[10:56:28] <mrsun> archivist: huh ? =)
[10:57:43] <archivist> I cannot see the cable run and how it drives both sides
[10:58:22] <mrsun> archivist: on the first picture .. there is a cross of a cable in the teable
[10:58:29] <witnit> your encoder is on the motor?
[10:58:30] <mrsun> this is fixed on both ends of the gantry
[10:59:22] <mrsun> like a draft table keeps the ruler square
[10:59:52] <archivist> my drafting table had no cross,
[11:00:11] <archivist> two rollers and a connecting bar
[11:00:35] <mrsun> archivist: well there are different models i guess ... =)
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[11:01:11] <archivist> I need a diagram and where the motor is, seems unbalanced
[11:01:14] <mrsun> doesnt realy mater how it works .. just that it works .. the cable crosses under the table and is fixed in both ends of the gantry, the driving side will pull the non driven side with it square at the same pace
[11:01:35] <mrsun> wait =)
[11:01:38] <archivist> it does not work with 2cm difference
[11:01:58] <mrsun> its FLEX that makes the diff ... something is flexing
[11:02:04] <mrsun> and im guessing the cable that is almost 8 meters long
[11:02:50] <archivist> I am guessing if you grab the gantry and push/pull at the ends it will be obvious
[11:03:09] <mrsun> yes if i do it at the "non driven" side it moves ALOT .. like i said ...
[11:03:16] <mrsun> the other side is held in place with a ballscrew
[11:03:18] <mrsun> so that isnt moving
[11:05:07] <archivist> you have not put enough tension on the cable probably
[11:05:28] <mrsun> archivist: thats what i mean ...
[11:05:37] <mrsun> if i put more i pull the side beams inwards like hell
[11:06:03] <mrsun> and using something STIFFER than a cable ... would result in me not having to have to pull 1000 pounds of preasure on it to make it stiff
[11:06:57] <archivist> add a bar to react to the pull in force in the gap between the rails
[11:07:26] <archivist> not a cable error, this is a frame error
[11:07:42] <mrsun> http://i57.tinypic.com/m9ak3n.png that is how the table is built ... green is the wire, black is beams ... blue is ballscrew, pink is the gantry and where pink meets blue is fixed points on the wire =)
[11:08:28] <mrsun> archivist: yes ... and due to my mistake .. building the frame to weak ... adding something more stiff so i do not have to put like i said ... a couple of thousands of pounds of preasure on it ... would help it not to flex to kingdom comes :P
[11:09:25] <archivist> still no image yet on tinypic
[11:09:34] <mrsun> wtf
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[11:10:11] <mrsun> http://tinypic.com/r/m9ak3n/8 does that work ? it works for me
[11:10:20] <mrsun> http://oi57.tinypic.com/m9ak3n.jpg
[11:11:03] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/grabs/Screenshot-13.png
[11:11:18] <mrsun> but like i said .. i know ive made the frame to weak .. and im trying to fix it ... i will add braces today .. but still i do not want to have to torque the thing to kingdom comes .. and thats why i was looking at chains ... as i understand they would be alot more "chock" stiff and not flex as much as a wire .. at alot less tension
[11:11:48] <mrsun> archivist: something is obviously wrong with your computer if it looks like that :P
[11:12:08] <archivist> nothing wrong with the computer
[11:12:17] <mrsun> try the direct link i posted last
[11:12:32] <archivist> you have no reaction bar, make it a rectangle
[11:12:42] <mrsun> "reaction bar" ?
[11:13:00] <mrsun> im going to add bars at the far ends of the beams today
[11:13:02] <archivist> at the rollers a bar/tube to the other rail
[11:13:48] <mrsun> as ive measured quite alot of flex when im tensioning the cable .. so ive opted to not tension it to far as i would bend my beams and make my rails go bananas =)
[11:13:52] <mrsun> but gonna try and fix that
[11:13:56] <archivist> and an X between corners for the shear stress
[11:14:06] <mrsun> but still the question was .. is chain more stiff than cable? at a lower tension? =)
[11:14:32] <archivist> forget chain v cable, that is not your problem
[11:14:37] <Loetmichel> anyone mentoined that a chaien has a position error?
[11:14:43] <Loetmichel> chain
[11:14:47] <archivist> not yet
[11:15:10] <mrsun> Loetmichel: doesnt mater in this application
[11:15:21] <mrsun> im not drinv with the chain or cable .. its only to pull the other side with it
[11:15:32] <Loetmichel> mrsun: you want to drive a CNC mill with it, i WOULD say itmattes
[11:15:35] <mrsun> so as long as a link doesnt flex after its tensioned the position will be aboslute =)
[11:15:48] <archivist> wrong
[11:15:55] <archivist> it does matter
[11:15:56] <mrsun> Loetmichel: im driving it with a ballscrew.. all the chain/cable does is to pull the other side with it
[11:16:00] <mrsun> it isnt driven in any way
[11:16:11] <Loetmichel> it has an erroe with EVERY chain link going thru the sprocket
[11:16:11] <mrsun> the distance from one side to the other will always be a constant
[11:16:16] <archivist> it carries all the reaction force
[11:16:42] <mrsun> Loetmichel: ok then .. if a link is longger then an other it will be a diff when it hits the sprocket =)
[11:16:59] <archivist> the variation in length will change the effective position
[11:17:25] <Loetmichel> no
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[11:17:30] <archivist> it is as it mounts the sprocket there it a step change
[11:17:33] <Loetmichel> the problem is the tilting motion of the links
[11:17:55] <Loetmichel> even if ANY link is the same size wyou will get periodic differences in length
[11:18:05] <archivist> mrsun, your thinking on chain is wrong
[11:18:44] <mrsun> yeah im starting to understand what Loetmichel is saying and i accept it .. wire might be better =)
[11:18:55] <mrsun> but needs alot more tension to be as stiff i guess
[11:19:28] <mrsun> i need to rebuild the machine with the knowledge ive gained while building this one :P
[11:19:36] <archivist> lots of machines use wire, toothed belts are really a wire system with added error
[11:20:09] <archivist> the teeth add the chain error :)
[11:21:01] <mrsun> oh well, i guess go out and make some beams to put between the beams to take up the forces pushing them to bananas =)
[11:21:26] <mrsun> and troque the living hell out of that wire
[11:21:28] <archivist> dont forget the X beams to counter shear stress
[11:21:36] <mrsun> archivist: cant fit that on the machine as it is now
[11:21:54] <mrsun> needs some substantial rebuilds to be able to put that there =)
[11:22:04] <mrsun> or not that much .. but need to remove table and everything
[11:22:27] <archivist> pull across the corners will pull a parallelogram shape
[11:23:05] <mrsun> and like someone said .. i realy need to make brackets to hold the pulleys on both sides
[11:23:05] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i have build a machine that uses 2mm steel cable
[11:23:12] <Loetmichel> with good success
[11:23:31] <mrsun> Loetmichel: i have good success .. only that its a little bit flexy .. and gonna take one error out now atleast =)
[11:24:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10465&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[11:24:57] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
[11:25:05] <Loetmichel> :-)
[11:25:14] <Loetmichel> was a dispenser for fluids
[11:37:35] <mrsun> =)
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[14:54:42] <zq> is there a way to issue instructions from inside g-code to a stepgen axis in velocity mode?
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[14:59:25] <jthornton> instructions?
[15:05:22] <archivist> zq what is the real problem you are trying to solve
[15:06:50] <jdh> spindle control via stepgen?
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[15:10:10] <zq> well not exactly
[15:10:31] <zq> spindle control is doable via m-codes
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[15:11:03] <zq> but if, hypothetically, could i control a second spindle independently of the first?
[15:12:24] <archivist> what is the real job, it may have been solved in hal
[15:13:10] <zq> i doubt it. i just want to drive a small fan with stepgen while i'm milling
[15:14:26] <cradek> and silence falls
[15:16:18] <zq> how amenable are we to a few more m-codes? it's pretty hacky, but i can't think of anything better
[15:16:33] <jdh> you can make your own m-code
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[15:17:32] <archivist> just use a dc motor and switch on/off
[15:17:33] <JT-Shop> zq, M7 or M8
[15:17:50] <archivist> m62-65
[15:18:06] <JT-Shop> classicladder
[15:18:37] <zq> cradek: what's your take on this?
[15:18:51] <archivist> or m67 to the stepgen
[15:19:25] <cradek> zq: my take is that making a fan out of a stepper motor is extremely silly
[15:19:26] <zq> JT-Shop: this isn't really for coolant purposes. and i'd need variable speed control
[15:19:40] <cradek> there are many motor types that rotate on their own
[15:19:58] <zq> cradek: really? computer fans do it all the time.
[15:20:11] <archivist> do you want to synch it, see the hobbing methods
[15:20:23] <cradek> what is the fan for?
[15:20:42] <zq> to blow off really annoying to touch milling debris
[15:20:55] <JT-Shop> M6/7 can turn on anything you like it is not limited to coolant pump
[15:20:59] <archivist> plain dc fan then
[15:21:24] <archivist> stepper fan is just not sensible
[15:21:30] <zq> JT-Shop: speed control
[15:21:34] <zq> archivist: speed control
[15:22:02] <cradek> a stepper motor can't even turn a fan fast enough to fan, can it?
[15:22:06] <JT-Shop> analog out for speed
[15:22:09] <archivist> you want more speed I bet than a stepper will ever give you
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[15:22:24] <cradek> why do you need speed control to blow away debris?
[15:22:38] <cradek> you're making your life very hard for no reason
[15:23:00] <zq> small debris, large debris, depending on how the miling is done
[15:23:05] <zq> +l
[15:23:27] * JT-Shop doubts a fan will blow off large debris
[15:23:46] <cradek> especially a fan on a stepper motor
[15:23:49] <JT-Shop> so M7 for fluff and M8 for stones
[15:24:02] <archivist> a valve on the high pressure air line makes more sense
[15:24:24] * JT-Shop needs to get some productive work done now
[15:24:31] <zq> maybe i'll use an m100 like jdh suggested
[15:24:32] <cradek> yeah, this is very silly
[15:25:04] <cradek> expecting that big monty-python foot any moment
[15:25:30] <jdh> M1xx would be simple to implement so you don't waste as much time trying to generate an ineffective solution.
[15:26:03] <zq> dude, no need for the condescension. i had a really specific question at start, and then you insisted on knowing my real problem.
[15:26:08] <zq> cradek: ^
[15:26:10] <pcw_home> Great, now I have the Monty Python theme music stuck in my head
[15:26:16] <jdh> heh
[15:26:44] <zq> just because lcnc isn't capable of it doesn't make it silly
[15:26:51] <zq> that's a pretty narrow worldview
[15:26:56] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:27:05] <_methods> hah
[15:27:27] * _methods gigglez
[15:27:41] <archivist> and a picture of a nude playing a piano on the beach
[15:28:45] <pcw_home> Aaargh
[15:32:27] <malcom2073> Why not just PWM a normal fan?
[15:32:52] <cradek> actually it was archivist who wanted to know the real problem, and it was smart of him to ask, because that's critical to helping someone (often people ask the wrong questions because they're thinking about the problem a certain way, and that leads the questions down a wrong and irrelevant path)
[15:33:08] <archivist> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRU6tQdyYqQ
[15:34:00] <cradek> anyway, sorry for snarking so much.
[15:34:00] <zq> it was completely irrelevant, not smart
[15:34:50] <cradek> that depends on your perspective. helping someone to do something that makes no sense is often not very rewarding (for either party)
[15:34:57] <zq> i know exactly what i was asking except chose to indulge his irrelevant request
[15:35:05] <cradek> you can certainly run a stepper with a stepgen in velocity mode if you want to
[15:35:24] <cradek> that's not hard at all
[15:35:30] <archivist> an expensive slow fan drive
[15:35:41] <zq> again, it makes no sense to you, not universally. why are you so naive?
[15:35:57] <zq> and no, you can't run a stepgen axis in velocity mode
[15:36:01] <zq> not controllably
[15:36:11] <zq> m7/m8 doesn't even make sense if you think about it
[15:36:29] <cradek> ?
[15:36:29] <malcom2073> I've seen so much monty python, but that video makes me feel like there is so much more yet to see, makes me happy
[15:36:42] <archivist> you were not listening to me M67
[15:37:04] <syyl_ws> #Stepgen Velocity Modus
[15:37:04] <syyl_ws> setp hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.control-type 1
[15:37:14] <syyl_ws> i think i run my stepgens in vel mode for some time...
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[15:38:10] <zq> archivist: i kinda stopped listening to you after your absurd little request. maybe if you had started off with m67...
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[15:38:38] <malcom2073> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83gPaewIKOY
[15:38:44] <zq> syyl_ws: what's stepgen.00.velocity-cmd attached to?
[15:38:52] <malcom2073> You could use a pwm signal to control the frequency of a circuit like that!
[15:39:00] <malcom2073> Complete with 80's music
[15:40:07] <JT-Shop> most of us stopped reading...
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[15:43:36] <malcom2073> Oh man this lead me down a fairly amusing youtube rabbit hole
[15:45:12] <jdh> did you end up with cats, fails, or semi-nude women?
[15:45:19] <Deejay> lol
[15:45:20] <malcom2073> I wound up at Free energy
[15:45:29] <jdh> so, fails.
[15:45:34] <Deejay> even worse ;)
[15:45:36] <malcom2073> Of course
[15:46:14] <malcom2073> Is it really a failure, if it made me laugh?
[15:46:15] <malcom2073> :)
[15:48:47] <cradek> I ended up at breadmaking
[15:49:13] <JT-Shop> I ended up cutting up cardboard fillers
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[15:56:21] <mrsun> youtube rabbit holes <3
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[16:31:24] * Loetmichel just made a little cablerack to hang the multimeter wires in... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15517
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[16:34:56] <zeeshan|2> 100 amp sub panel #3 live + neutral wires
[16:35:01] <zeeshan|2> but people say #6 for ground wire?
[16:35:09] <zeeshan|2> where in the nec are they getting this info about the ground
[16:35:13] <zeeshan|2> (copper)
[16:36:11] <JT-Shop> ask people
[16:36:39] <archivist> there is some stupidity in modern stuff with ground wire sizes, it has to stand all the potential current to ensure the fuse fails and no ground cable fault
[16:41:57] <malcom2073> That makes sense, if both short to ground, you want the fuse on either/both to fail before the ground wire melts
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[16:42:44] <malcom2073> Assuming by live, you means both phases of 240.. Begs the question: What if they both short to neutral
[16:42:47] <archivist> but the calculations over here involve the power station amps!
[16:43:47] <malcom2073> Or rather, you use them near capacity, not enough to break the fuse on either line, but enough to melt the neutral wire
[16:44:09] <malcom2073> Is that possible?
[16:46:44] <malcom2073> Oh wait, in a subpanel, do you tie neutral to the panel ground, or do you run neutral back to the main panel to be bonded to ground there?
[16:47:23] <roycroft> neutral and ground wires must be isolated in a subpanel
[16:47:33] <malcom2073> Yeah, just googling that :)
[16:47:57] <malcom2073> So do your subpanel (assuming two phase) main wires have to be fused for the neutral wire size, or for the individual live wire sizes?
[16:48:21] <malcom2073> Curiositywise, not asking for actual electrical installation advice here :P
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[16:51:04] <malcom2073> http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/39008/why-is-the-neutral-wire-the-same-size-as-hot-wire-in-a-3c-cable
[16:51:08] <malcom2073> Answers my question.
[16:51:52] <malcom2073> Current cancels out. 25A on one 110 to N line, and 10A on the other 110 to N line, means 15A on the neutral line
[16:51:52] <alex____w> ac is fun
[16:51:55] <malcom2073> It is
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[16:54:28] <malcom2073> Apparently it's against code to have a 240V plug, and a 110V plug on the same device heh
[16:54:43] <malcom2073> Should run 240V 3+ground wire, and split it internally
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[17:06:23] <Connor> Yo Yo.. What's up folks.
[17:06:38] <Connor> Life sucks in the RV. But at least I have internet and my TV setup.
[17:08:26] <jdh> beats many alternatives
[17:08:42] <jdh> winter construction seems to take much longer though
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[17:10:31] <Connor> jdh You alternatives?
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[17:13:45] <jdh> tent
[17:13:53] <jdh> in-laws
[17:14:09] <jdh> craque-house motel
[17:14:59] <Connor> yea well wife thinks RV in side yard too much like camping.....
[17:15:28] <jdh> for how long?
[17:15:52] <Connor> 2 weeks starting this past saturday
[17:16:15] <jdh> that's not too bad
[17:16:30] <Connor> maybe more dunno yet
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[17:22:26] <zeeshan|2> any of you run aluminum wire? :P
[17:23:25] <Jymmm> "only ONCE"
[17:23:41] <alex____w> wait, are we back in the 60s?
[17:23:43] <archivist> before the fire
[17:23:48] <alex____w> i didn't think anyone did aluminum wire since then really
[17:24:25] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: you're not seriously thinking about it, are you?
[17:24:28] <zeeshan|2> i am
[17:24:41] <Jymmm> Well, it was nice knowing oyu.
[17:24:44] <zeeshan|2> betwen my sub panel and main panel
[17:24:55] <malcom2073> I hear it's ok if you have no copper in your house
[17:24:55] <Jymmm> NEVER EVER mix copper/aluminum
[17:24:55] <malcom2073> at all
[17:24:56] <malcom2073> anywhere
[17:25:07] <zeeshan|2> how is that mixing copper and aluminum
[17:25:07] <zeeshan|2> :P
[17:25:29] <archivist> electrolytic corrosion
[17:25:42] <zeeshan|2> the terminals at the breaker and at the lugs
[17:25:47] <zeeshan|2> are rated for cu/al ?
[17:26:01] <malcom2073> Not at the same time I think
[17:26:16] <zeeshan|2> thats why the / <- or
[17:26:16] <zeeshan|2> :D
[17:26:26] <zeeshan|2> you usually only have 1 wire at a terminal to begin with :P
[17:26:30] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: You know, I straight out admit I'm a pyro (not arsonist), but there are things that I would never mess with. Aluminum wiring of any kind would be one of them.
[17:26:37] <CaptHindsight> what if the contact area is completely sealed?
[17:26:47] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: yea like using these:
[17:26:54] <zeeshan|2> http://www.homedepot.ca/product/aluminum-to-copper-wire-connectors-8-pkg/860148
[17:27:36] <Jymmm> till it breaks down
[17:27:50] <Jymmm> HAHA.... 90 day warranty
[17:27:51] <zeeshan|2> 280$ for 3-3-3-6 wire
[17:28:03] <zeeshan|2> or 120$ for 1-1-1-3 al wire
[17:28:08] <zeeshan|2> :)
[17:28:22] <Jymmm> They won't even guarntee their own product
[17:28:37] <Jymmm> that's gotta tell ya something.
[17:28:43] <zeeshan|2> In some states of the United States, home hazard insurance do not cover homes with any aluminum wiring, and some insurance companies that claim to cover it charge a higher premium than for homes with copper wiring.
[17:28:46] <zeeshan|2> okay cu it is
[17:29:07] <malcom2073> Pay the extra. Nothing like waking up to a face full of flames to save a hundred bucks
[17:29:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: may i remind you that high votage overlasn connection are made PURELY from aluminium wire?
[17:29:32] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: what size aluminum wire?
[17:29:34] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Yeah, ya cheap bastard!
[17:29:37] <archivist> I had some al jump leads, they were crap
[17:29:38] <Loetmichel> (with steel core for strength)
[17:29:41] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: 1 awg
[17:30:11] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I don't care.
[17:30:19] <zeeshan|2> the mains coming to my main panel are aluminum
[17:30:26] <zeeshan|2> from the electrical company
[17:31:08] <CaptHindsight> yeah, no problem
[17:31:29] <CaptHindsight> there were issues decades ago with aluminum wiring in homes
[17:31:39] <CaptHindsight> the stigma lives on
[17:32:23] <zeeshan|2> " People get all worked up about aluminum because of its issues (when improperly done) for switches and outlets. These same issues don't exist between panels, or disconnects, for that matter. "
[17:32:26] <zeeshan|2> internet quote
[17:32:45] <malcom2073> My grandfather had a wall of his house catch fire, when they did the addition back in the 80's they used aluminum wire where the rest of the house is copper, and it caught fire 10 years ago. Probably done wrong, but yeah it's dangerous when done wrong. Slightly more so than copper when done wrong :P
[17:33:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118856/516.pdf background on the problems
[17:33:58] <malcom2073> That's ok, a buddy of mine has knob and tube in his house :/
[17:34:06] <pcw_home> I learned that cheap cat5 cable is often CCA (copper clad aluminum)
[17:34:58] <CaptHindsight> there's a town nearby that still requires all electrical connections to be soldered
[17:35:07] <zeeshan|2> looks like these things were failing at the joints..
[17:35:10] <zeeshan|2> not at the terminals.
[17:35:47] <pcw_home> Knob and tube will outlast that new-fangled plastic insulation
[17:36:05] <malcom2073> pcw_home: True
[17:36:34] <pcw_home> might miss such niceties as grounded outlets though
[17:39:05] <Loetmichel> knob and tube?
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[17:39:47] <archivist> those twist caps?
[17:41:39] <pcw_home> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring
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[17:42:26] <archivist> ew, never seen that over here
[17:42:47] <zeeshan|2> wait
[17:42:49] <zeeshan|2> is that a plastic tube?
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[17:43:03] <mozmck> read the article
[17:43:04] <archivist> we had wooden trunking in the beginning
[17:43:06] <zeeshan|2> no
[17:43:10] <zeeshan|2> tell me now!
[17:43:26] <zeeshan|2> porcelian
[17:43:27] <zeeshan|2> lol
[17:43:31] <zeeshan|2> lemme get my hammer out
[17:43:52] <pcw_home> unlike plastic Lasts forever
[17:43:54] <zeeshan|2> that is cool!
[17:44:04] <zeeshan|2> i love the the knife switches
[17:44:14] <zeeshan|2> it's no fu n till you see the arcing
[17:45:00] <tjtr33> http://support.ctc-control.com/customer/elearning/registered/servoBasicsForTheLayman.pdf
[17:45:01] <tjtr33> good read on control system basics. i was hunting for freq response of a system vs the position update loop speed ( bode plots )
[17:47:04] <zeeshan|2> about my earlier question about #6 ground
[17:47:10] <zeeshan|2> i think theyre geting it from table 250.122 nec
[17:47:23] <zeeshan|2> that table actually says #8 copper for 100A service :P
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[18:00:24] <CaptHindsight> wouldn't wiring be safer if it was all run on the outside of walls where you can keep an eye on them?
[18:01:59] <archivist> then the mice could eat it and cause fires
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[18:06:08] <CaptHindsight> set up a Dept/Ministry of Home Security, everyone is safer when everything is watched :)
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[18:10:03] <mrsun> heh ... was only 2mm wire i had put on the machine ... so after stiffening it had a dial indicator on the beam and it tightened until it held a high pitched e .. then blam it snapped :P
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[18:11:44] <mrsun> oh well, upgrade to 3mm tomorrow ... =)
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[18:21:32] <demo> hello folks. I'm looking for a Linuc drip feed DNC program. Anyone know of anything like that?
[18:22:43] <demo> i did find a link to a program called DNC-x, written by ther guys who do easy dnc for windows
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[18:23:05] <demo> but it fails to execute
[18:24:32] <alex____w> why do you want to drip feed?
[18:25:05] <demo> i do IT for a machine shop, they have a bunch of CNC machines. That is just always how they have done it
[18:25:13] <demo> is there a better way?
[18:25:27] <alex____w> oh, so these machines aren't using LinuxCNC for their controls
[18:25:31] <alex____w> they are using some other control software
[18:25:41] <alex____w> drip feeding is common if the control has limited storage and can't handle big programs
[18:26:06] <archivist> probably be old machines
[18:26:07] <demo> so i can use LinuxCNC opposed to drip feeding?
[18:26:13] <demo> maybe?>
[18:26:30] <alex____w> converting from an old control to LinuxCNC can be a massive undertaking, it's unlikely what your machinists want
[18:26:34] <archivist> linuxcnc would be retrofit
[18:26:46] <cradek> linuxcnc is a machine control
[18:26:49] <alex____w> i'm converting a Hurco VMC now and I'm about 120 man hours in
[18:27:27] <demo> okay, good to know. What a bummer. I was hoping with ther end of XP, I'd be able to find a open source DNC on Linux
[18:27:28] <cradek> it can easily load your program all at once, so there is no need to drip feed
[18:28:09] <demo> i'll put it in the R&D pile then, sounds like a very powerful option for us, but not what I am looking for currently
[18:28:12] <cradek> don't you just feed gcode out a serial port?
[18:28:21] <demo> thanks for the info guys, have a great day
[18:28:21] <cradek> that's certainly not hard
[18:28:28] <cradek> cheers
[18:28:28] <demo> i think it might
[18:28:38] <demo> just drop gcode out the serial
[18:28:44] <archivist> any old tty util on linux
[18:28:49] <demo> shouldn't be too hard to whip something up
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[18:29:41] <archivist> just make sure you get the handshake setup correctly
[18:29:55] <archivist> crash....
[18:30:34] <cradek> someone needs to 3d-print paper tape
[18:31:02] <archivist> hehe
[18:31:27] <cradek> better if you can melt and reextrude it after the reader
[18:33:24] <archivist> dont joke, there was an outside broadcast system that coated film and developed it in the truck, scanned it (flying spot) and recoated it sending it back up to the external film camera
[18:33:50] <Tom_itx> drip feed... never heard it put that way before
[18:33:50] <cradek> that's a common term
[18:33:58] <Tom_itx> we just called it DNC
[18:34:00] <archivist> german 1930's
[18:34:16] <Tom_itx> i did one using realterm once
[18:34:24] <Tom_itx> it worked ok
[18:34:47] <Tom_itx> i've got a couple others from cam packages that work
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[18:41:58] <archivist> cradek, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_film_system
[18:44:06] <cradek> cool hack!
[18:44:13] <cradek> this one says the film was kept
[18:44:48] <archivist> I could scan some pictures in a book here and expand that article, the book I have has 10 pages on the system
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[18:48:02] <archivist> one time use was in the beginning they went to a loop later
[18:48:20] <archivist> thus using less material
[18:48:21] <cradek> archivist: you should!
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[18:50:10] <cradek> was this for baird (mechanical) tvs? 36-37 seems late for those
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[18:51:38] <cradek> calling it a "camera lens" is kind of weird if so
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[19:00:51] <archivist> cradek, scanned that section of the book http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/BK/BK119/
[19:00:57] <pcw_home> reminds me of Eidophor projectors, amazingly complicated tech at the time
[19:02:49] <cradek> I didn't know flying spot/mechanical TVs and sound broadcasting overlapped
[19:03:33] <t12_> hah
[19:03:40] <t12_> thats like the linotype of video
[19:03:46] <cradek> exactly
[19:04:40] <Rab> A little closer to Monotype than Linotype, strictly speaking.
[19:05:24] <t12_> i used to sneak into abandoned buildings
[19:05:39] <t12_> so one day theres a locked door in the basement of this building which i gradually rip down
[19:05:45] <t12_> that leads down a long hallway
[19:05:50] <t12_> and theres walls and walls of lead type
[19:06:03] <t12_> and then a room with a fully functional and maintained hot type foundry
[19:06:31] <t12_> it ended up being a tunnel between the abandoned building and an active building, where there was a restored foundry
[19:06:33] <zeeshan|2> theoretical question: if the neutral wire from the transformer to my main panel failed
[19:06:39] <t12_> it was definately a strange moment of like
[19:06:39] <zeeshan|2> wouldn't that make my main panel live?
[19:06:42] <t12_> wtf have ai walked into
[19:07:09] <Rab> t12_, awesome
[19:08:01] <cradek> zeeshan|2: your main panel should still be earthed in that case
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[19:22:43] <cradek> archivist: and they had a receiver that did the opposite! amazing.
[19:22:46] <cradek> thanks for sharing this stuff
[19:23:33] <zeeshan|2> i dont see the point of bonding neutral and earth at the panel
[19:23:38] <zeeshan|2> it must be only for lightning strikes
[19:23:44] <zeeshan|2> not for shock prevention
[19:24:00] <zeeshan|2> it s so the lightning strike goes directly to ground not through all your electrical stuff
[19:24:13] <cradek> nah, it's for safety
[19:24:26] <zeeshan|2> in what situation?
[19:24:31] <cradek> you're on the end of a transformer, so your whole house is isolated from the grid
[19:24:47] <cradek> it's only your ground that keeps your house's potential near the earth's
[19:25:35] <zeeshan|2> lets say it didnt exist
[19:25:44] <zeeshan|2> what would the potential difference end up being?
[19:25:47] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: often enough the ground on the power co's transformer opens
[19:25:50] <cradek> anything
[19:26:09] <zeeshan|2> but the legs of the transformer are only giving you 240vac
[19:26:16] <CaptHindsight> you could see 13KV from the outlet to say your kitchen faucet
[19:26:20] <zeeshan|2> you have transformer isolation?
[19:26:41] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 i think you should run it all from batteries
[19:26:46] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: hahaha
[19:26:53] <zeeshan|2> no im just trying understand it
[19:26:56] <zeeshan|2> i know you do it at the panel
[19:27:07] <zeeshan|2> but id like to be solid on the reasoning
[19:27:13] <zeeshan|2> main panel i mean
[19:27:20] <CaptHindsight> so cities require a ground rod properly driven into earth at the point of service entry as well as internally to a water pipe
[19:27:26] <CaptHindsight> so/some
[19:28:01] <CaptHindsight> most just require the panel ground to be bonded to a water piper before the meter
[19:28:24] <CaptHindsight> it depends on the local code
[19:28:31] <Tom_itx> too much plastic pipe nowdays
[19:29:02] <CaptHindsight> then they would require a ground rod
[19:29:24] <Tom_itx> i drove a 10' rod by the pannel when i put in new service
[19:29:57] <Tom_itx> before that i don't think there was one but then i removed a box with screw in fuses :D
[19:30:49] <CaptHindsight> the rules often seem strange but many are due to lessons learned about safety over the past >100 years
[19:30:59] <CaptHindsight> odd things happen
[19:31:26] <Tom_itx> i'm wondering if an odd thing happened to mine. i still can't figure out what happened
[19:32:02] <Tom_itx> makes me nervous to install the new boards when they arrive
[19:32:21] <CaptHindsight> check everything with a meter
[19:32:38] <Tom_itx> it'd been working for a good 6-8 mo
[19:32:45] <Tom_itx> then all the 5v blew out
[19:32:50] <Tom_itx> the 5v reg is good
[19:32:57] <Tom_itx> shows 4.97 v
[19:33:07] <CaptHindsight> or ask someone else to, often you don't see your own mistakes, like proofreading your own writing
[19:33:11] <zeeshan|2> i dont get it still :-(
[19:33:12] <zeeshan|2> im slow
[19:33:33] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight yeah i agree with that practice
[19:33:55] <_methods> amen
[19:33:55] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: measure resistance between ground
[19:34:03] <zeeshan|2> @ cnc control and rod
[19:34:12] <Tom_itx> i'll check it wire at a time agian
[19:34:17] <Tom_itx> again*
[19:34:40] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, the rod is at the house entrance pannel, the cnc is in the garage
[19:34:43] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: you can have 240V across the secondaries (leg to leg) of a 13KV power co transformer, but either leg can also be 13KV from a secondary leg to ground
[19:35:00] <CaptHindsight> thats why the transformer gets grounded
[19:35:14] <CaptHindsight> and each service gets grounded
[19:35:31] <Tom_itx> i'm tempted to put a rod in by the garage sub pannel
[19:35:37] <zeeshan|2> wait what?
[19:35:44] <zeeshan|2> the 13kV primaries are connected to the secondary leg to ground?
[19:35:54] <zeeshan|2> i didnt get that :P
[19:36:17] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i was researching about the rule about having a seperate ground rod (why its needed) for a detached garage
[19:36:18] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: if you step back far enough and see how the power transformers can be connected
[19:36:24] <zeeshan|2> its based on the fact that if you have too much resistance on it
[19:36:30] <zeeshan|2> it stops acting like a easy ground path..
[19:36:45] <CaptHindsight> you're just looking at from the transformer to your service entrance
[19:36:48] <zeeshan|2> they say if its more than 25ohms between your load ground and where the ground goes from main panel to earth
[19:36:54] <zeeshan|2> then you need to definitely run a seperate ground rod
[19:37:04] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: mine are underground
[19:37:09] <zeeshan|2> well behind a green cover
[19:37:45] <Tom_itx> i'm also wondering if a linear regulator would be better for the 5v supply than the current SMPS i'm using
[19:37:55] <zeeshan|2> http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/power-parts.gif
[19:38:10] <Tom_itx> i don't remember how much input V those can take
[19:38:14] <zeeshan|2> i see a wire going to the ground wire of the pole
[19:38:23] <zeeshan|2> from the ground coming from the house? :p
[19:38:47] <Rab> Tom_itx, linear regulator is usually a better choice if you need low noise.
[19:39:07] <Tom_itx> i don't think it was a noise issue really
[19:39:18] <Tom_itx> but i don't know what it was... so it could have been
[19:39:42] <zeeshan|2> only your mesa blew up?
[19:39:48] <Tom_itx> yeah
[19:39:48] <Tom_itx> both
[19:39:54] <Tom_itx> 5v only
[19:40:06] <zeeshan|2> its gotta be something to do with that 5v supply
[19:40:18] <zeeshan|2> its like it surged or something
[19:40:22] <Tom_itx> the sserial board still looks ok but i'm gonna check it
[19:40:33] <Tom_itx> gotta go...
[19:40:34] <Tom_itx> bak later
[19:40:46] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: explain more!
[19:43:36] <zeeshan|2> http://www.annsgarden.com/poles/JP0-PS-Schematic.jpg
[19:43:56] <zeeshan|2> what two points will be at a potential difference of 13kV in that diagram
[19:44:03] <zeeshan|2> if the ground wasn't bonded to neutral
[19:44:43] <zeeshan|2> i can see that there would be a potential difference of 240v if it wasn't bonded :P
[19:44:59] <zeeshan|2> 230v or 115v..
[19:47:16] <CaptHindsight> float the grounds
[19:47:38] <CaptHindsight> you pic is when everything is connected properly
[19:47:42] <zeeshan|2> yes
[19:47:44] <zeeshan|2> but float only 1 ground
[19:47:54] <zeeshan|2> the one for "power compancy single phase secondary"
[19:48:00] <CaptHindsight> add some corrosion, animals, weather etc
[19:48:04] <zeeshan|2> then i see a potential diff of 240v, 115v
[19:48:23] <zeeshan|2> if the three phase primary ground is floated
[19:48:54] <zeeshan|2> there is a potential diff of 13kV between phase a,b,c, & earth
[19:49:01] <zeeshan|2> i dunno :P
[19:49:05] <zeeshan|2> i give up
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[19:52:26] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1nFDYJlWwrcA epoxy with only ~2% aluminum fill, Shore 86D
[19:53:01] <_methods> hmm
[19:53:12] <_methods> what kind of epoxy?
[19:54:54] <CaptHindsight> thats a photopolymer that cure from UV to blue/green light
[19:55:37] <_methods> shock sensitive?
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[19:56:02] <_methods> 86 on shore d is pretty damn hard
[19:56:13] <CaptHindsight> Bisphenol A , no it has a bit of flex still
[19:56:48] <_methods> interesting
[19:56:49] <CaptHindsight> but I can't snap that piece in tow with my hands
[19:56:56] <CaptHindsight> tow.two
[19:58:32] <CaptHindsight> strong enough to make laptop and cell phone enclosures
[19:58:50] <tjtr33> measure resistance to ground: get out the megger!
[19:59:35] <CaptHindsight> I can vary the bulk resistance
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[20:01:54] <CaptHindsight> with some carbon blacks I have Shore 95D and a few ohms across a part that size
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[20:04:55] <tjtr33> re grounding: http://www.weschler.com/_upload/sitepdfs/techref/gettingdowntoearth.pdf wth someone took the name megger and trademarked it.
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[20:06:34] <zeeshan|2> hehe
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[20:17:34] <zeeshan|2> http://www.emfs.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/pme-explanation-us1.gif
[20:17:38] <zeeshan|2> capt i think you were talkking about this.
[20:17:59] <zeeshan|2> okay now that makes a lot more sense.
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[20:30:02] <zeeshan|2> okay 2 reasons i finally think i understand about why you dont bond a sub panel:
[20:30:19] <zeeshan|2> 1. lightning strike
[20:30:57] <zeeshan|2> 2. by bonding at the sub panel too, you provide a parallel path for the current to travel back. using v=ir , voltage will be generated (potential difference).
[20:31:34] <zeeshan|2> but in the case of bonding @ the main panel, the resistance is so great (earth is supposed to be a big ass resistor), that little to no potential difference will exist
[20:31:57] * zeeshan|2 ends rant
[20:37:09] <zeeshan|2> now that im thinking about this
[20:37:17] <zeeshan|2> technically instead of running ground wires back to your main panel
[20:37:28] <zeeshan|2> you should be able to stick a 8 foot 6061 rod into the ground
[20:37:33] <zeeshan|2> and connect each circuit directly there :P
[20:40:32] <jdh> why 6061 instead of a normal ground rod?
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[20:43:16] <zeeshan|2> copper works too :P
[20:43:35] <zeeshan|2> http://artisanelectric.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2009-04-27_014.jpg-driving-ground-rod.jpg
[20:43:40] <zeeshan|2> imagine doing this for each circuit of your house
[20:43:43] <zeeshan|2> haha that would suck.
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[20:49:24] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: yes, step back and see more of the complete circuit
[20:49:47] <witnit_> i think is probably the worst possible way to drive ground rod haahhaha
[20:50:08] <zeeshan|2> i dont think that hammer is big enough :)
[20:50:31] <zeeshan|2> seeing the importance of earth ground
[20:50:42] <CaptHindsight> lol, he could just push it in with the bucket
[20:50:43] <zeeshan|2> i kinda wanna put a secondary ground rod
[20:51:00] <zeeshan|2> and put a thick ass gauge
[20:51:03] <CaptHindsight> ground loops is in the next class :)
[20:51:06] <zeeshan|2> like 3/0
[20:51:13] <zeeshan|2> yea you'll have a ground loop
[20:51:36] <zeeshan|2> you naturally have it to begin with if you look at that other pic i posted
[20:51:42] <CaptHindsight> yes
[20:51:45] <zeeshan|2> each neighbour is earthed from the same transformer
[20:51:49] <zeeshan|2> than the transformer is earthed
[20:51:51] <CaptHindsight> another discussion
[20:51:52] <zeeshan|2> its a havoc :D
[20:52:27] <witnit_> here was my solution, use lathe, make stop collar with bolt in the side and slide it over the ground rod. lock down the collar and put black pipe over the rod and pound it in. loosen the collar, move it up 6 inhes and pound some more
[20:53:15] <zeeshan|2> well the make that hand auger tool for it
[20:53:24] <zeeshan|2> lemme see if i can find a pic
[20:53:27] <zeeshan|2> ive seen it being used before
[20:53:43] <zeeshan|2> https://www.salisburybyhoneywell.com/CatalogImages/9-screwgrndrod_2103_large.PNG
[20:53:44] <zeeshan|2> that thing
[20:53:45] <witnit_> yeah but that sounds a bit expensive
[20:53:58] <zeeshan|2> well im sure you have all that stuff
[20:54:03] <zeeshan|2> use a big ass wood drill bit
[20:54:08] <witnit_> yeah
[20:54:14] <zeeshan|2> attach it to a rod and t handle
[20:54:18] <witnit_> true
[20:54:21] <zeeshan|2> more work than your method though :P
[20:54:31] <zeeshan|2> less energy expired during pounding
[20:54:47] <zeeshan|2> expired = exerted
[20:54:56] <witnit_> yeah, and you dont wreck the top of the rod by mushrooming it out
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[20:56:22] <zeeshan|2> so if mother earth decided to start generated electricity
[20:56:26] <zeeshan|2> we'd all be screwed
[20:56:32] <witnit_> i guess it probably depends if you can even pound it in the ground
[20:56:34] <zeeshan|2> generating
[20:57:21] <zeeshan|2> is a body of water a big ass resistor too? :p
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[20:57:50] <zeeshan|2> "It is known that the theoretical maximum electrical resistivity for water is approximately 182 kO m at 25 �C. "
[20:57:53] <zeeshan|2> hm
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[20:57:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.agrisupply.com/product.aspx?p=31500 these work well enough
[20:58:08] <CaptHindsight> Fence Post Driver $20
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[20:59:00] <zeeshan|2> ha. a boat seems to use a floating ground
[20:59:06] <zeeshan|2> http://newcontent.westmarine.com/content/wm-img/WestAdvisor/articles/Marine-Grounding-1.jpg
[20:59:08] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: + $80 to hire the kid to use it =)
[20:59:30] <alex____w> no, they ground to the water
[20:59:35] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: for the month :)
[21:00:01] <zeeshan|2> whoops thats a dc supply.
[21:00:03] <zeeshan|2> not ac
[21:00:04] <alex____w> which is also tied to battery negative and shore power ground when the boat is pluggedinto shore
[21:00:22] <CaptHindsight> floating floating ground
[21:00:27] <zeeshan|2> haha
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[21:01:13] <zeeshan|2> maybe the whales and dolphins hear the ground loops
[21:01:19] <zeeshan|2> thats why they follow the boats around
[21:01:20] <alex____w> miswired boats cause problems a lot, so many boats have what is called a galvonic isolator which is basically a big power diode in ground that makes it do nothing unless there is a >2v (or whatever) potential difference
[21:01:47] <alex____w> when the boat is out in use there is generally no ac, just dc
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[21:02:01] <zeeshan|2> alex_jon1: are you sure?
[21:02:04] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: nah, you toss one bit of food overboard and they follow you
[21:02:05] <zeeshan|2> they dont have induction motors?
[21:02:25] <zeeshan|2> by boat im thinking of cargo ships
[21:02:31] <zeeshan|2> not a small boat :P
[21:02:39] <alex____w> okay, since you linked to west marine i thought you were talking about small boats
[21:02:44] <zeeshan|2> ah
[21:02:51] <alex____w> nothing that west marine sells is really useful on a cargo ship
[21:03:02] <zeeshan|2> that was a random google link
[21:03:08] <jdh> nothing west marine sells is reasonably priced
[21:03:25] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cathelco.com/userfiles/ShaftEarthingdiagram%202.jpg
[21:03:28] <zeeshan|2> this is kinda interesting
[21:03:37] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: well I was thinking college kid, but $80/mo for a 13yo, eh, sure, why not =)
[21:03:38] <alex____w> yes, west marine is generally junk all around
[21:03:39] <zeeshan|2> erosion of the prop shaft
[21:03:40] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[21:03:58] <alex____w> galvanic corrosion is a big deal on boats big and small
[21:05:06] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: maybe 13+, they need to be strong enough to carry the tools, the younger kids are better for small precision work with their little fingers
[21:05:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah, true.
[21:05:49] <witnit_> MC500 what model is that new board?
[21:05:51] <CaptHindsight> I still can't say that with a straight face :)
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[21:33:30] <Computer_Barf> i dont know the correct term for it, but I took the head off my g0704, then took off the sliding part off the z axis that the gibs go in , when I put it back on it seems much tigher than it was before.
[21:34:05] <Computer_Barf> idk if maybe it needs to be moved up and down a bit to settle in or just figured i would ask.
[21:37:08] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 did you get it all figured out?
[21:37:15] <zeeshan|2> the ground?
[21:37:24] <Tom_itx> you should run a silver ground rod to keep the weirwolf's away too
[21:37:34] <zeeshan|2> haha
[21:38:39] <Tom_itx> i can't hardly see where i'd get a fault between the control and my PC. the only link between the two is the parallel port
[21:38:48] <zeeshan|2> you cant
[21:38:54] <zeeshan|2> the only course is the 5v
[21:38:59] <zeeshan|2> course = 5v
[21:39:03] <Tom_itx> another bud seems to think so
[21:39:10] <zeeshan|2> if somehow the primary side jumped to the secondary side
[21:39:11] <zeeshan|2> somehow.
[21:39:13] <Tom_itx> my 5v comes from my pannel
[21:39:14] <zeeshan|2> it would explain.
[21:39:18] <Tom_itx> off the transformer
[21:39:48] <Tom_itx> i centertapped one of my transformers to get 24v that feeds the SMPS
[21:40:03] <zeeshan|2> that same transformer has the 5v?
[21:40:15] <zeeshan|2> different winding of it
[21:40:18] <Tom_itx> the SMPS is 5v
[21:40:24] <zeeshan|2> okay lemme clarify
[21:40:29] <zeeshan|2> SMPS 5v -> mesa hardware power
[21:40:33] <Tom_itx> yup
[21:40:36] <zeeshan|2> primary -> smps 5v
[21:40:39] <zeeshan|2> 110v
[21:41:04] <Tom_itx> 110v primary, 48v secondary 24v centertap
[21:41:19] <Tom_itx> 48v was too much to feed the SMPS
[21:41:25] <zeeshan|2> 24v -> smps
[21:41:26] <zeeshan|2> gotcha
[21:41:36] <zeeshan|2> thats even more safer?
[21:41:48] <Tom_itx> i don't know
[21:41:48] <zeeshan|2> are you relying on a v-reg to drop the voltage down to 5v?
[21:42:00] <Tom_itx> well, that's what they do
[21:42:36] <zeeshan|2> voltage reg part #?
[21:42:39] <alex____w> Computer_Barf: I have very little experience with the G0704, but on other machines I find that things don't go together in a way that makes them tighter than when they came apart
[21:42:50] <alex____w> could you have inserted the gib backwards? is it a tapered gib?
[21:43:38] <Computer_Barf> yes it appears tapered. I was releaved to see the term tapered gib online after noticing how crooked it was
[21:43:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[21:43:58] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/switcher.png
[21:43:59] <Computer_Barf> i can check to see if reversing it helps but I believed i had lined it up right
[21:46:16] <alex____w> it should be obvious, and the g0704 is so popular that it shouldn't be hard to find a head teardown photo set
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[21:46:29] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, LM2596
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[21:49:25] <zeeshan|2> 5v and 12v side share the same ground?
[21:49:34] * zeeshan|2 doesnt knwo smps that well :P
[21:49:50] <Tom_itx> GND is a common thing
[21:50:59] <Jymmm> so is sky
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[21:51:06] <Tom_itx> i kinda hate to use a linear regulator because of the voltage drop
[21:51:16] <Tom_itx> would generate alot of heat
[21:52:12] <furrywolf> apparantly someone got electrocuted this morning at a relative's workplace... turns out the crane safety inspector managed to drive the manlift straight into their power lines. seriously, the one guy who really should have known better!
[21:52:58] <Tom_itx> was he giving a 'what not to do' safety demonstration?
[21:53:11] <furrywolf> not intentionally, I suspect.
[21:53:29] <furrywolf> however, I bet at that lesson, it'll be very effective.
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[21:53:43] <furrywolf> might have been an osha employee, I'm not sure...
[21:53:56] <Jymmm> more like an end to a career
[21:54:11] <furrywolf> jymm: being dead is generally career-ending, yes.
[21:54:24] <Jymmm> I meant the crane operator
[21:54:44] <furrywolf> it was a single-person manlift. he was operating it himself.
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[21:54:51] <Jymmm> and not really, just means you get a new employeer =)
[21:55:11] <furrywolf> he was performing a safety inspection, and drove it into the power lines.
[21:55:12] <Jymmm> maggot meat!
[21:55:35] <furrywolf> that's like all the gun safety instructors who manage to shoot themselves...
[21:56:22] <Jymmm> on video =)
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[22:02:49] <furrywolf> lol! due to excessive trolling and flamewars, the local news outlet has changed their "comments" section on news articles to "the thunderdome".
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[22:05:51] <zeeshan|2> !seen LeelooMinai
[22:05:51] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2015-01-04 21:43:01GMT 48:22:56 ago, saying They mention some magic codes though
[22:06:13] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if her machine is running
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[22:06:29] <norias> howdy
[22:06:59] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Waiting for extrusions for the table. But not decided anything aout the spindle yet.
[22:07:19] <zeeshan|2> youre gonna run multiple extrusions
[22:07:21] <zeeshan|2> as your table?
[22:07:32] <LeelooMinai> Yes, 3 by 1.5 ones
[22:07:35] <zeeshan|2> nice
[22:07:37] <zeeshan|2> thats a good idea
[22:07:43] <zeeshan|2> how much did it end up costing for that envelope
[22:07:59] <LeelooMinai> $200 or so
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[22:08:04] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[22:08:22] <LeelooMinai> Well, what can I do - Canada is not as cheap as US
[22:08:33] <zeeshan|2> i could not find a local supplier for that stuff..
[22:08:37] <zeeshan|2> might save on shippin
[22:08:48] <furrywolf> more details. apparantly it was an inspection being done by a contractor.
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[22:09:29] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: I ordered from there: http://store.cpiautomation.com/ It's in Canad, so shiopping was not too crazy, $20 or so
[22:10:30] <zeeshan|2> "905.625.4805"
[22:10:39] <zeeshan|2> looks like theyre somewhere in the GTA or hamilton
[22:10:52] <zeeshan|2> book markedf
[22:10:58] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:24:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: PONG
[22:25:25] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If you were to guess, do you think 32x WS2812's could be controlled by an arduino tiny?
[22:29:40] <furrywolf> looking at the datasheet, I don't see why you couldn't drive an infinite number...
[22:30:17] <Jymmm> furrywolf: IT's a byte size limitation as I uderstand it. the megas can only do 250
[22:30:40] <furrywolf> bytes of what?
[22:30:49] <Jymmm> furrywolf: addressable space
[22:31:14] <furrywolf> if you're asking "do I have enough memory to send unique data to 32 of them", that I have no idea... but the devices themselves seem able to be daisy-chained indefinitely.
[22:31:36] <Jymmm> and that why I was asking Tom_itx =)
[22:31:46] <furrywolf> it's a serial protocol. you don't have an address for each led individually.
[22:31:59] <Jymmm> Actually, yes you do.
[22:32:14] <Jymmm> you can address EACH led individually
[22:33:00] <furrywolf> eh? according to the datasheet, each one just takes the first data it sees, then passes the rest on. if you simply wrote a 2-line loop that sent the same byte repeatedly, an infinite number of them would change to the same brightness...
[22:33:17] <furrywolf> the "address" is simply how far down the daisy chain you are.
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[22:37:39] <furrywolf> I can't find a product called arduino tiny to look at the specs for. what cpu is it based around? attiny?
[22:39:30] <furrywolf> the attiny (at least the first one I found googling) has 512 bytes of ram, which should be plenty for controlling 32 LEDs, and even doing things mildly complex.
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[22:39:57] <furrywolf> what do you plan on making the leds do?
[22:45:14] <furrywolf> ...
[22:45:43] <norias> it's a little late to be programming those christmas lights
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[22:45:50] <furrywolf> ok, I'm going to go play with my mill instead of try to help someone who wanders off in the middle of a conversation. bbl.
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[22:51:09] <robinsz> evening guise
[22:51:27] <witnit> good evening
[22:51:51] <robinsz> so .. there I was sitting are work .. "err ... the router won't come on" ... and sure enough, the controller which was turned off for Christmas has shat itself
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[22:52:42] <robinsz> I forsee EMC and my collection of random Mesa cards are once again going to be involved ...
[22:53:16] <witnit> what do you mean?
[22:53:37] <robinsz> ? ...
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[22:54:07] <norias> so.. yeah
[22:54:14] <norias> folks have mentioned these mesa cards
[22:54:18] <witnit> yeah
[22:54:21] <norias> the machine i have
[22:54:22] <robinsz> I mean the only way I am going to get the thing to work again is with EMC and some digging around int he box of Mesa cards lurking in the shed
[22:54:32] <witnit> i just ordered another one yesterday :)
[22:54:38] <norias> has brushed servos and drivers / amplifiers
[22:54:46] <robinsz> speaking of which ...
[22:54:48] <norias> do i really need the motion control ones
[22:54:55] <norias> or an anything i/o ?
[22:54:59] <witnit> what are you planning to do?
[22:55:06] <norias> oh, good point
[22:55:08] <robinsz> you'll need an "anything IO" fpga card
[22:55:10] <norias> cnc milling machine
[22:55:16] <witnit> okay yeah anything IO
[22:55:22] <norias> cool
[22:55:22] <witnit> dc brush servo amps?
[22:55:26] <norias> yeah
[22:55:27] <robinsz> then a 7133 analogue servo interface duaghter card
[22:55:32] <norias> hmm
[22:55:33] <witnit> encoder feedback?
[22:55:36] <norias> yes
[22:55:40] <witnit> limit switches?
[22:55:42] <norias> yes
[22:55:49] <witnit> sounds like everything to me
[22:55:56] <robinsz> youll need the 7137 for the limit switches
[22:55:56] <norias> it's a cnc that the controller died in
[22:55:57] <witnit> go mesa, IMO
[22:56:09] <robinsz> any of you guys in the UK?
[22:56:12] <norias> so, anything i/p
[22:56:17] <norias> and the 733
[22:56:19] <norias> and 7137
[22:56:28] <witnit> not so fast
[22:56:39] <witnit> there are many routes you can go
[22:56:45] <norias> hmm, ok
[22:57:06] <furrywolf> should I grind flats on my stepper shafts, or just crank the grub screw down?
[22:57:15] <robinsz> not all the mesa stuff is supported under emc though
[22:57:17] <norias> grind flats
[22:57:22] <norias> ahh, ok
[22:57:30] <robinsz> or drill and peg
[22:57:31] <witnit> for example 7I33 and the 7I90 when properly setup is VERY affordable
[22:57:46] <robinsz> so, no UK people?
[22:57:53] <witnit> are you willing to take the effort to understand how EMC works then you will be fine
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[22:58:01] <robinsz> Im about to put a mill on eBay, if anyone is interested
[22:58:07] <witnit> yeah there are im sure, but they are building cncs right now
[22:58:28] <furrywolf> big flats, or little flats? heh. only way I have to do so is with an angle grinder...
[22:58:29] <norias> witnit: basically... i'm willing to learn it all
[22:58:44] <norias> and really, i'd like to learn to do some of the lower level control stuff in hardware
[22:58:44] <robinsz> just needs a drive amp rebuilding, I dont have time, so it will go on cheap for what it is
[22:58:55] <witnit> how would you like to communicate with the machine?
[22:58:57] <norias> but i want to get the machine up and running
[22:59:04] <witnit> what port on your computer do you want to use?
[22:59:18] <norias> i can dedicate a computer to it
[22:59:27] <norias> i don't have a care which port
[22:59:35] <witnit> pci, lpt, ethernet?
[22:59:47] <norias> i'm going to say pci
[22:59:49] <witnit> is cost an issue?
[22:59:56] <norias> cost is only slightly an issue
[23:00:11] <norias> keeping in mind i'll probably ditch the hardware eventually
[23:00:26] <witnit> do you want a simple easy to do setup with a GUI or will you handcode the configuration files?
[23:00:40] <norias> i'm going to say easy to setup
[23:00:46] <norias> so i can get up and running fast
[23:01:01] <norias> this step of the project is a quick and dirty throw away
[23:01:13] <norias> that ideally operates as a framework for me to redo it properly
[23:01:28] <witnit> there is a combo card they sell, should be pci then a cable then a daughtercard
[23:02:22] <norias> i'm taking this as a chance
[23:02:23] <witnit> the daughtercard will determine what kind of hardware you are hooking into
[23:02:28] <norias> to make a machine do what i want it to do
[23:02:37] <norias> but, i need the machine to run soon
[23:02:38] <norias> so, eh
[23:02:58] <robinsz> soon and emc are not often used in the same sentence ;)
[23:03:04] <norias> ha!
[23:03:11] <norias> i.e. this monthis
[23:03:12] <norias> h
[23:03:48] <JT-Shop> everyone "needs" their machine running yesterday
[23:03:51] <witnit> you could do it in a week if you have a good experience with linux
[23:03:58] <robinsz> if you are in the US you should get the cards easy enough, mesa often seem to run out though
[23:03:59] <norias> these anything i/o cards are pretty cheap
[23:04:03] <witnit> go look at pncconf
[23:04:10] <norias> i also have a haas that's running
[23:04:24] <norias> but, eh, i'd like to be able to say all my machines are up
[23:04:31] <norias> so, there's some wiggle room
[23:04:49] <witnit> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Pncconf
[23:04:53] <norias> i dig
[23:04:55] <witnit> just read that
[23:04:55] <norias> looking
[23:05:10] <witnit> and determine if you can hook little wires into little holes and screw them down
[23:05:13] <witnit> :)
[23:05:23] <norias> i think i can hack it
[23:05:24] <norias> thanks
[23:05:36] <witnit> pick the correct daughtercard
[23:05:52] <norias> by correct
[23:06:02] <witnit> the ones with the little green connector blocks on them are very nice if you are in a hurry
[23:06:02] <norias> do you mean one that seems to work with the servo drives?
[23:06:10] <witnit> yeah
[23:06:48] <robinsz> so one EMC question ... units
[23:07:07] <robinsz> is the current version of EMC any better at being set up in mm these days?
[23:07:45] <zeeshan|2> texas
[23:07:46] <zeeshan|2> er
[23:07:47] <witnit> i never knew there was an issue
[23:07:59] <robinsz> used to be a big problem
[23:08:04] <witnit> oh
[23:08:15] <norias> mesa's pricing is super reasonable
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[23:08:37] <robinsz> certain parameters ended up not working very well in mm, as internally, it assumed various things were inches
[23:09:01] <robinsz> if mm are fine these days, I'll assume those problems hvae been fixed?
[23:09:13] <norias> there's nothing on the list
[23:09:17] <norias> that cracks $1,000
[23:09:22] <robinsz> nope
[23:09:41] <robinsz> $100 for your PCI card, $100 each for two daughter cards, you are done
[23:09:50] <norias> pretty bad ass
[23:09:58] <zeeshan|2> look at th e other controls
[23:09:59] <alex____w> i just configured a whole metric machine, we had no issues
[23:10:00] <zeeshan|2> theyre in the thousands.
[23:10:03] <zeeshan|2> and not open source
[23:10:08] <alex____w> it's actually american made machine, but metric. it was a nice surprise
[23:10:08] <norias> that's happening this week
[23:10:16] <robinsz> nice
[23:10:27] <robinsz> zeeshan|2, thats not necesrrily true
[23:10:31] <norias> i know, most motion control stuff is definitely in the $1,000's of dollars
[23:10:43] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: link to other controls
[23:10:47] <zeeshan|2> under 300$
[23:10:51] <zeeshan|2> well 200$
[23:10:52] <witnit> norias you can add more daughtercards to each anything IO
[23:11:01] <norias> i dig
[23:11:08] <witnit> so you can double your AXIS by adding one more daughtercard
[23:11:12] <robinsz> you said "thoudands"
[23:11:22] <norias> i think $200 counts as throw-away for what i'm doing
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[23:11:33] <robinsz> there are other open source controls for a few hundred dollars
[23:11:50] <robinsz> but, you are tied to their hardware
[23:12:00] <robinsz> EMC is nicer as its mix and match
[23:12:19] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, what's an WS2812?
[23:12:59] <_methods> heheh
[23:13:00] <_methods> led
[23:13:01] <_methods> man
[23:13:04] <_methods> come on
[23:13:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop can i have that done by the middle of last week?
[23:13:18] <witnit> norias
[23:13:28] <witnit> can you program bash?
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[23:13:41] <witnit> just scripts?
[23:13:49] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: exactly.
[23:14:06] <zeeshan|2> and i am even running amc servo drives
[23:14:21] <zeeshan|2> which an handle both brush and brushless
[23:14:28] <zeeshan|2> i would hate to get tied down to a specific motor!
[23:14:40] <alex____w> mesa isn't really the servo-drive part of the machine
[23:14:46] <zeeshan|2> i know :P
[23:14:50] <zeeshan|2> its the interface part
[23:14:50] <alex____w> it's how to interface the servo drives with the macihne
[23:15:06] <zeeshan|2> im just saying, i kept universal replaceability in my mind
[23:15:15] <robinsz> most drives are +- 10V analogue in and an eneable
[23:15:15] <zeeshan|2> when i was coming up with components for the controller
[23:15:25] <robinsz> all decent controllers can drive that
[23:15:26] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: yea but they dont all support
[23:15:28] <zeeshan|2> tachometer
[23:15:28] <witnit> yeah but you cant just mix servo + stepper or resolver encoder etc all with the same interface
[23:15:30] <zeeshan|2> encoder
[23:15:35] <robinsz> wut?
[23:15:36] <witnit> in most cases
[23:15:37] <zeeshan|2> etc.
[23:15:40] <zeeshan|2> not all in the same drive.
[23:15:48] <zeeshan|2> go look at fanuc drives
[23:15:50] <robinsz> drives are part of the machine
[23:15:53] <robinsz> not the controller
[23:15:55] <zeeshan|2> they'll be brushless only
[23:15:56] <zeeshan|2> yea
[23:16:01] <zeeshan|2> so when you blow up servo motor
[23:16:02] <zeeshan|2> what do you do?
[23:16:04] <alex____w> the only servo drives that i have any personal experience with are yaskawa drives at the upper end of the market
[23:16:08] <alex____w> which are closing the loop themselves
[23:16:12] <zeeshan|2> if your drive can only drive brushless?
[23:16:12] <robinsz> chnage it?
[23:16:14] <alex____w> i have little experience with other drives
[23:16:23] <zeeshan|2> would you not rather have a drive
[23:16:27] <zeeshan|2> that can handle an array of servos?
[23:16:30] <robinsz> no
[23:16:32] <tjtr33> robinsz, lots of metric users nowadays, no problems. i think remember your nick from the emc days ( pre linuxcnc )
[23:16:34] <zeeshan|2> so youre not limited to replacing with with a specific kind?
[23:16:36] <zeeshan|2> why?
[23:16:47] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, if you have enough money you can
[23:17:04] <witnit> if robinz knows it as EMC i would say robinz been gone awhile :P
[23:17:13] <robinsz> tjtr33, yeah, I have been around for a while ;) ...
[23:17:30] <tjtr33> i was tomp3 or staggerlytomp back then
[23:17:41] <robinsz> you see the picture on the front page of linuxcnc.org? ... thats my router in the background
[23:17:46] <witnit> i started with emc and printer port
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[23:18:01] <zeeshan|2> robinsz: doesnt make sense to be stuck to one kind of motor
[23:18:05] <robinsz> thats been there ... hmm ... probably 10 years
[23:18:09] <zeeshan|2> especially for a homeshop :)
[23:18:27] <robinsz> zeeshan|2, whatever. I usually just change the drive with the motor
[23:18:34] <zeeshan|2> thats expensive
[23:18:36] <robinsz> baldor drives with baldor motors
[23:18:44] <zeeshan|2> you must have a lot of money to waste
[23:18:44] <robinsz> fanuc with fanuc
[23:18:46] <witnit> nice :)
[23:18:49] <robinsz> etc
[23:19:06] <alex____w> zeeshan|2: how often are you destroying your servo motors?
[23:19:11] <alex____w> and why are you doing it so often?
[23:19:17] <zeeshan|2> alex____w: when it happens
[23:19:21] <zeeshan|2> the option should be there
[23:19:24] <alex____w> this seems like an academic concern
[23:19:33] <robinsz> alex: exactly
[23:19:50] <alex____w> sort of like worrying about which chipset socket is most likely to still be in use in 3 years in case you want to replace your cpu indenpdent of the motherboard
[23:20:13] <zeeshan|2> having the ability to mix and match parts is always nice
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[23:20:21] <alex____w> the hurco that i just retrofit (that is the metric machine) has been using the same ac servos for 20 years
[23:20:25] <robinsz> id rather buy a combo that I know works well together, if and when it blows, I'll replace the blown bit with another the same, and if I cant get it for whatever reason, I'll swap the pair
[23:20:42] <alex____w> only if you get the same performance from mixed and matched parts, which is probably not the case compared to parts that were designed and tuned together
[23:20:44] <robinsz> you would expect a decent AC servo to last at least 20 years, yeah
[23:20:54] <robinsz> alex: exactly correct
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[23:21:22] <zeeshan|2> shrug you guys have a lot of money :P
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[23:23:08] <alex____w> zeeshan|2: the machien that i'm working on was basically purchased for scrap metal cost
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[23:23:27] <malcom2073> That's the best kind of machine
[23:23:29] <alex____w> this isn't a big investment machine
[23:23:40] <zeeshan|2> alex____w: same here
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[23:23:55] <zeeshan|2> the replacement parts for th ebosch drive
[23:23:57] <zeeshan|2> is $$$$$$
[23:24:05] <zeeshan|2> it was much cheaper to replace em with amc drives
[23:24:11] <alex____w> well, we bought one with drives that worked :)
[23:24:17] <zeeshan|2> mine were 3 phase
[23:24:18] <alex____w> just control software that no one wanted to use
[23:24:20] <zeeshan|2> so i couldntr check :/
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[23:24:33] <alex____w> this whole machine is 3 phase, it's too big to practically run on single phase
[23:24:39] <zeeshan|2> tell me about it
[23:24:50] <zeeshan|2> my feeder breaker is sized to 80A
[23:24:50] <zeeshan|2> lol
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[23:25:20] <zeeshan|2> i need to start working on it again , but the damn cold is so demotivating
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[23:26:18] <andypugh> Does anyone know anything about metal spinning?
[23:26:46] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: they make cheap velocity stacks =D
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[23:27:08] <andypugh> I am having a bit of trouble.
[23:27:38] <witnit> the only metal spinning i did was aluminum on a screw machine
[23:28:07] <witnit> it was one inch pipe and i was rolling the end inward for pneumatic exaust mufflers
[23:28:24] <robinsz> Andy!
[23:28:47] <robinsz> are you well dude?
[23:28:54] <andypugh> Not too bad :-)
[23:29:08] <robinsz> good good, long time no speak
[23:29:11] <andypugh> But struggling with the return lip on these: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/yQkdyOglnSbeOjVJPaMwLdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
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[23:33:49] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: are you doing that on your lathe?
[23:33:49] <andypugh> (I made that one by making a round “hump” then squishing it in the vice.
[23:33:49] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Yes.
[23:33:49] <robinsz> thats a nice .. helmet
[23:33:49] <robinsz> taken up battle re-enactment have we?
[23:33:49] <zeeshan|2> looks like apretty light housing
[23:33:49] <andypugh> Headlights for the Ner-a-Car
[23:33:49] <robinsz> oh god ...
[23:33:49] <robinsz> where did you find that?
[23:33:49] <andypugh> In my shed :-)
[23:33:49] <robinsz> damn shed
[23:33:49] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: is it cracking?
[23:33:49] <andypugh> robinsz: Have younot seen http://bodgesoc.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Neracar1 ?
[23:33:49] <robinsz> that wastn you who turned right at Bramble Bank was it?
[23:33:50] <andypugh> zeeshan|2: Well, cracking is a problem, but the main issue is forming the lip. I can make an straight flange against the removable collar, but when I remove the collar the flange unwraps as I spin down the other side.
[23:33:50] <andypugh> I probably need a backing stick, but my setup doesn’t suit two-handed work.
[23:33:50] <andypugh> robinsz: As I have no idea what you mean, no.
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[23:34:31] <robinsz> I was referencing your sailign antics and that thing currentyl stuck on bramble bank
[23:35:10] <robinsz> nice project btw, chassis looks good
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[23:35:27] <andypugh> Ah! Now the familiar name comes to mind. We did scrape Bramble Bank once.
[23:35:41] <andypugh> Clipper boats have a 15’ keel.
[23:37:01] <robinsz> nice hub removery tool thingy too
[23:37:11] <robinsz> I did something similar a month or two back
[23:37:18] <robinsz> rebuilt an HSD auto spindle
[23:37:36] <robinsz> 18 months ago, it blew a bearing
[23:37:42] <robinsz> they rebuilt it .. �1850
[23:37:51] <robinsz> a month later it blew again ...
[23:37:57] <robinsz> rust due to water in airline
[23:38:18] <robinsz> but they assured me at the time, water was not an issue, as bearing was sealed
[23:38:24] <andypugh> Your fault, or theirs?
[23:38:30] <robinsz> so they rebuilt it half price
[23:38:41] <robinsz> theirs for bad info on air
[23:39:04] <robinsz> so .. I was in 3K ...
[23:39:14] <robinsz> a month ago it blew again
[23:39:21] <andypugh> Half price seems about fair, though clearly money you would rather not have paid.
[23:39:25] <robinsz> so decided to strip it myself
[23:39:36] <andypugh> I guess the bearings are not cheap?
[23:39:44] <robinsz> well .. we'll come to that
[23:40:09] <robinsz> there is air bled through a labirinth seal to keep dust out of the bearing
[23:40:22] <robinsz> but .. they had left the air control screw fully closed ...
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[23:40:32] <robinsz> and ...
[23:40:51] <robinsz> the front housing rotated 90 degrees so the air bleed holes didnt line up anyway
[23:40:54] <robinsz> and ...
[23:41:19] <robinsz> the plug screw missing from the cross-drilling so the air woudl not have gone through the labyrinth even then
[23:41:24] <robinsz> tossers
[23:42:11] <robinsz> made a tool, stripped it, ignored all the "ooh, but you need a degree in astrophysics, virgins milk and a special balancing machine" bullshit that spindle rebuolders tell everyone
[23:42:24] <robinsz> bought the exact correct bearings, for �90
[23:42:30] <robinsz> rebuilt, perfect
[23:43:04] <robinsz> although, I used standard grease, instead of the high speed stuff at stupid money
[23:43:09] <robinsz> seems ok so far
[23:43:45] <andypugh> I have heard folk say that the right grease really does matter.
[23:43:55] <robinsz> I suspect they may be right
[23:44:05] <robinsz> if it blows, its 2 hours and �90
[23:44:12] <andypugh> But then at £90 per bearing perhaps it isn’t worth the money.
[23:44:22] <robinsz> per pair ;)
[23:44:49] <andypugh> Bearings for my mill are £240 each, and they are only taper rollers, and get hot at 1000 rpm...
[23:44:56] <robinsz> Id love a syringe full of the right stuff
[23:45:04] <andypugh> Have you tried eBay?
[23:45:13] <alex____w> hot at 1000 rpm does not sound good
[23:45:14] <robinsz> I forget
[23:45:21] <alex____w> for a cnc mill
[23:45:39] <robinsz> im going to put the VF2 on eBay if anyone wants it
[23:46:55] <alex____w> haas?
[23:47:50] <robinsz> yeah
[23:48:00] <norias> how much?
[23:48:04] <robinsz> blown X axis drive, cant be arsed to fix it
[23:48:05] <s1dev> this ^
[23:48:09] <andypugh> Well, the mill didn’t start off as a CNC.
[23:48:29] <robinsz> I was thinking of putting it on at 6k
[23:48:36] <robinsz> see what offers I get
[23:48:38] <norias> hmm, what year?
[23:48:41] <zeeshan|2> benefits of non universal controller!
[23:48:44] <robinsz> no idea
[23:48:48] <zeeshan|2> andypugh: i was looking at your flange thing
[23:49:03] <alex____w> robinsz: where is it located?
[23:49:06] <zeeshan|2> this might sound silly
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[23:49:11] <zeeshan|2> but can you tack on the collar?
[23:49:11] <robinsz> monmouth, UK
[23:49:18] <zeeshan|2> while you do the other side?
[23:49:20] <norias> oh heck
[23:49:22] <alex____w> ah, that's a problem :)
[23:49:24] <s1dev> D:
[23:49:34] <alex____w> though i'll be in cambridge, uk, next week
[23:49:44] <robinsz> theres about 100 toolholders, and a rennishaw tool probe
[23:49:56] <Tom_itx> andypugh what if you were to put a collar around part of it?
[23:50:30] <robinsz> it ran fine for a while, then blew the drive card ... I replaced card .. it ran fine for months, then blew again ... THEN i found the fucked wiring
[23:50:37] <norias> heh
[23:50:43] <andypugh> That’s the next plan. (sort of). I have a big aluminium tube that I intend to use to “back up” the flange from the tailstock end while I spin-down the other side.
[23:50:55] <robinsz> the wiring has been replaced, all the way from the motor to box
[23:51:00] <Tom_itx> i know little about metal spinning...
[23:51:03] <robinsz> drive and encoder
[23:51:23] <norias> lol
[23:51:24] <robinsz> just needs someone keen to fix it up
[23:51:34] <norias> they are trying to sell crt's
[23:51:39] <norias> for this controller i'm replacing
[23:51:42] <norias> for $800
[23:51:44] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[23:51:45] <robinsz> nice
[23:51:50] <norias> no kidding
[23:51:57] <norias> looks like i'm ebaying off the crt
[23:52:03] <norias> project payed for :)
[23:52:08] <robinsz> :)
[23:52:15] <zeeshan|2> thats what i did with my controll haha
[23:52:18] <zeeshan|2> it paid for everything
[23:52:24] <robinsz> yeah
[23:52:36] <norias> yeah, maybe i'll just part it out
[23:52:46] <norias> to someone who needs the parts
[23:52:46] <andypugh> robinsz: What are you doing nowadays? Is this CNC stuff work or hobby?
[23:52:49] <norias> to keep theirs running
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