#linuxcnc | Logs for 2015-01-04

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[00:00:09] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: got somethign I can read on the results of what they did?
[00:00:33] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/XLamp%20Application%20Notes/XLampPulsedCurrent.pdf
[00:00:40] <SpeedEvil> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vela/vela-one-the-worlds-first-high-speed-led-flash#
[00:01:16] <SpeedEvil> This uses 10 10W LEDs, run at 200W each for several microseconds.
[00:01:20] <XXCoder1> hm I cant figure what that black gel is https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=k0b7miN6suY#t=111
[00:01:26] <XXCoder1> pause video after click see it
[00:02:09] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: in the first link looks liek the failure was at the wire bond to the die
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[00:03:10] <SpeedEvil> You can pulse an LED hard once. When this is happening, the heat is all generated at teh junction. It then has a large mass of cold LED material 1um away from it. The heat can dissipate out to this _really_ fast.
[00:03:28] <SpeedEvil> When considering pulses, you don't care at all about the temperature of the rest of the system.
[00:03:52] <SpeedEvil> Only the temperature of that tiny bit of LED just next to the junction. That is what is providing your heatsink.
[00:03:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I could drop it in mineral oil
[00:04:03] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't matter at all.
[00:04:28] <Jymmm> Fine, LN2 =)
[00:04:32] <SpeedEvil> The heat goes nowhere in the time between pulses. It takes most of a second to get out of the LED.
[00:05:21] <SpeedEvil> But the relevant graph in the above pdf is fig 2. Relative lightoutput per forward current
[00:06:00] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: It's just a test of cheap china stuff.
[00:06:11] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Fig 2 is XLam XP-c....
[00:06:20] <SpeedEvil> At 1.5* nominal current -even at tiny pulses - 5% - you're at about half the efficiency
[00:06:53] <SpeedEvil> ^7 times
[00:07:06] <SpeedEvil> 5 times. Ican't math.
[00:07:11] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I'm considering using 20-100W COB LEDs
[00:07:53] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: That's 10-50 dies per "LED"
[00:07:57] <SpeedEvil> Right. If you pulse a 100W LED to 1000W for 10% of the time (neglecting the extra heating) - the total light output will be perhaps 30% of nominal.
[00:08:09] <SpeedEvil> Despite having the same current * time.
[00:08:27] <SpeedEvil> This doesnot quite mean it doesn't appear as bright or more distracting - as the eye does wierd stuff.
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[00:08:41] <XXCoder1> you mean POV?
[00:08:44] <SpeedEvil> Get lots of 1W LEDs of a similar style, and play with them 10* closer to your eye.
[00:08:46] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of.
[00:08:47] <XXCoder1> presitance of vision
[00:09:09] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Primary goal is the perceived light to the eye, not measured by test equipment
[00:09:33] <SpeedEvil> The percieved brightness for a non-flashing light is basically a pure integration.
[00:09:37] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Like I said a digital flash bang.
[00:09:46] <SpeedEvil> For flashing - it's somewhat different.
[00:10:13] <SpeedEvil> Isuspect you're always going to want to put all the light up front in practice - as then you rapidly bleach and hit adaption
[00:10:46] <Jymmm> I doubt I could get much more than 1 to 3 pulses before I fry the led
[00:11:00] <Jymmm> so make each pulse count
[00:11:11] <SpeedEvil> Try it with 1W LEDs first.
[00:11:27] <SpeedEvil> And just put it 10* closer to you than the 100W ones. For exactly the same effect
[00:11:45] <Jymmm> with the 20W COB, I have multiple dies though, so the overdriven amperage would be distributed
[00:12:15] <SpeedEvil> Distributed doesn't actually help - what you care about is amps/mm^2 of LED die
[00:12:20] <Jymmm> plus has the advantage of being "flood"
[00:12:55] <Jymmm> but the mm/mm^2 is dividied by the qty of dies per Total amps
[00:12:57] <SpeedEvil> One die will have exactly the same response as a thousand - as a function of overdrie
[00:13:20] <SpeedEvil> And you can exactly predict the response of large arrays from one LED
[00:13:24] <Jymmm> Well, the 20W cob is only $4 USD
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[00:14:23] <Jymmm> I could creep it up from nominal and see what I get
[00:14:30] <SpeedEvil> Fun fact.
[00:14:40] <Jymmm> playing with pulse rates, widths, etc
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[00:14:58] <SpeedEvil> ~50mm in diameter of closely packed good cree LEDs can emit the same amount of light as one square meter of window
[00:15:06] <SpeedEvil> - without being overdriven at all
[00:15:09] <SpeedEvil> ^sunlit
[00:15:21] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder1: did you figur eout the black gel?
[00:15:26] <XXCoder1> yeah
[00:15:30] <zeeshan|2> its rtv :P
[00:15:35] <XXCoder1> yep
[00:15:40] <zeeshan|2> use the one rated for water pumps
[00:15:42] <zeeshan|2> its usually blue
[00:15:53] <zeeshan|2> that black one is higher performance for oil stuff
[00:15:54] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: and the COST of those leds?
[00:16:06] <XXCoder1> oh it constantly contacts water. its fine to use not water rated stuff. :P
[00:16:08] <SpeedEvil> $400ish
[00:16:17] <Jymmm> lol
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[00:16:30] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I think I'll stick for $4 crap for now =)
[00:16:32] <zeeshan|2> http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-water-pump-thermostat-rtv-silicone-gasket-detail
[00:16:35] <zeeshan|2> this one XXCoder1
[00:16:42] <SpeedEvil> Done right, it could be an actually tactical light.
[00:16:43] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: This is ghetto digital flash bang baby =)
[00:16:43] <zeeshan|2> ive noticed with the regular rtv over time
[00:16:45] <zeeshan|2> you get residue.
[00:16:47] <zeeshan|2> of coolant
[00:17:00] <XXCoder1> I know. I already has amazon site pointing to that exact same product :)
[00:17:09] <zeeshan|2> ok just trying to help.,
[00:17:10] <SpeedEvil> If you point it accurately at someone, within say 2m - you can hit them with 10* as much light as the sun
[00:17:25] <SpeedEvil> s/accurate/vaguely/
[00:17:25] <zeeshan|2> i shouldn't bother anymore :)
[00:17:40] <XXCoder1> when you asked that I figured out, I said yes and meant it :)
[00:17:54] <zeeshan|2> well if you think that black one is good
[00:17:55] <zeeshan|2> for water pumps
[00:17:55] <XXCoder1> just considering if buy 1 or 2
[00:17:56] <zeeshan|2> youre wrong.
[00:17:57] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: This is ~6" long, thrown at soeones
[00:18:03] <zeeshan|2> thats why i asked to begin with
[00:18:14] <XXCoder1> thanks though
[00:18:22] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: with soem creative triggering as well =)
[00:18:49] <XXCoder1> Permatex 22071 Water Pump and Thermostat RTV Silicone Gasket, 0.5 oz. - wonder if .5 oz is enough. pretty small pump though
[00:19:10] <XXCoder1> this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZMYGLW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
[00:19:23] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: But, I wil build a strobe before the flash bang
[00:19:30] <zeeshan|2> you dont need rtv for that pump
[00:19:34] <zeeshan|2> it says it comes with gaskets..
[00:19:53] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: strobe/tactical light for flooding the area
[00:19:58] <XXCoder1> interesting
[00:20:05] <XXCoder1> "All gaskets or seals necessary for installation are supplied with pump"
[00:20:12] <zeeshan|2> most new pumps are like that
[00:20:22] <zeeshan|2> modern cars i mean
[00:20:26] <XXCoder1> 1998 is pretty modern
[00:20:32] <zeeshan|2> yea after obd 2
[00:20:36] <zeeshan|2> er i mean obd1
[00:20:39] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: I just need to find impact resistant clear semi-rigid tubing
[00:20:40] <XXCoder1> yeah
[00:20:56] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: which I think I have in 8ft lengths
[00:21:12] <XXCoder1> my older van 1996 has obd2 too. think 1996 is year where some vehicles has and some dont. my friend's ford truck definitely didnt
[00:21:45] <Jymmm> 1996 and up is ODB2
[00:21:51] <XXCoder1> some
[00:21:59] <Jymmm> well cutover year
[00:22:02] <XXCoder1> like I said my friends truck is 1996 and has odb1
[00:22:23] <Jymmm> check the onth of mfr
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[00:22:26] <Jymmm> month
[00:22:43] <Jymmm> Sep 1995 I'd suspect
[00:22:50] <zeeshan|2> Jymmm is right
[00:22:54] <zeeshan|2> if it was manufactured jan 1 1996
[00:22:55] <jac> hello linuxcnc gurus, i have a question wrt to JA3, will it be merged in for the 2.7 release ? or are there any plans to bring it up to date with master ?
[00:22:57] <zeeshan|2> it has to be obd1
[00:22:59] <zeeshan|2> obd2 i mean
[00:23:46] <XXCoder1> interesting. I guess it means my van is post jan 1996 (or factory made switch before deadline) while friend truck didnt
[00:23:47] <Jymmm> Sep-Dec is "model year", but I think the law said calendar year (Jan 96)
[00:24:19] <XXCoder1> learned something new, thanks guys
[00:24:34] <zeeshan|2> are you doing a water pump change
[00:25:20] <XXCoder1> yeah
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[00:25:34] <zeeshan|2> i hate coolant man
[00:25:36] <XXCoder1> I did rest of repaids myself. only one I can't is p1744 code of doom
[00:25:42] <XXCoder1> *repairs
[00:26:07] <XXCoder1> its for my neice, she wont drive in freeways much so code of doom wont hit it
[00:26:48] <zeeshan|2> ive never worked on automatic transmissions
[00:26:50] <zeeshan|2> they scare me :P
[00:27:03] <XXCoder1> its $10 part inside the car too
[00:27:08] <XXCoder1> labor is insane
[00:27:13] <XXCoder1> $1500 or so
[00:27:20] <zeeshan|2> http://www.jimjenningstransmissions.com/shops/14/faq532.JPG
[00:27:26] <zeeshan|2> when i saw that for the first time in real life
[00:27:31] <zeeshan|2> i said i'll never own an automatic :)
[00:27:36] <XXCoder1> lol
[00:27:38] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:27:38] <XXCoder1> maze
[00:28:13] <zeeshan|2> do they have to remove the entire trans to get to it?
[00:28:20] <zeeshan|2> and diassemble it?
[00:28:25] <XXCoder1> yeo
[00:28:41] <zeeshan|2> drive it till it blows :)
[00:29:09] <XXCoder1> yeah it's only problem after 50 mph and it fails to unlock
[00:30:27] <XXCoder1> some part inside troque transformer
[00:30:33] <[cube]> lol
[00:30:41] <[cube]> that a nice 'swept cut'
[00:30:49] <zeeshan|2> cube rofl
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[00:30:57] <zeeshan|2> there you go another place to use sweep
[00:31:26] <[cube]> i see it being used mostly on threading
[00:31:36] <zeeshan|2> yea follows a helica path
[00:31:39] <[cube]> with spiral paths
[00:31:57] <XXCoder1> zeeshan|2: any other stuff suggestion to aid me on water pump?
[00:32:13] <XXCoder1> I think I need to buy toque wrench
[00:32:23] <zeeshan|2> nahh just do it by feel for the pump bolts
[00:32:25] <zeeshan|2> its not critical
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[00:32:47] <zeeshan|2> when youre refilling the coolant
[00:32:55] <zeeshan|2> make sure you leave the cap off at the top most point of the coolant system
[00:32:56] <XXCoder1> unfortunately I dont know 'the feel' but I tend to just tighten it around as much as I had to loosen em
[00:33:07] <zeeshan|2> and let all the air bleed out (heaters on full warm, and blasting heat)
[00:33:22] <XXCoder1> I plan to just go to shop for refill
[00:33:24] <zeeshan|2> once the car reaches temperature, you'll see the coolant start to bubble
[00:33:32] <zeeshan|2> close thje cap
[00:33:38] <XXCoder1> my can isnt expecially sensive to lack of coolant, in least in cold days
[00:33:42] <zeeshan|2> if theres air in the ssytem, might have overheating issues
[00:33:52] <zeeshan|2> yea depends on the car
[00:33:56] <zeeshan|2> some are stupid sensitive to it
[00:34:07] <zeeshan|2> cause a stupid bubble will form and vapor lock the coolant system
[00:34:13] <XXCoder1> yeah. I drove it for days lol thankfully hose blew in cold weather!
[00:34:27] <XXCoder1> just refill with 3 or 4 bottles of water and drive
[00:34:46] <XXCoder1> by time im home its dry but fan kept it cool enough
[00:35:16] <XXCoder1> thankfully its fine now. slow leak off broken water pump.
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[00:35:49] <zeeshan|2> ah
[00:39:14] <XXCoder1> curious if you live at extreme cold reguon
[00:39:25] <zeeshan|2> yea man
[00:39:31] <zeeshan|2> i used to live in ottawa for a while.. went down to -35 c there
[00:39:41] <zeeshan|2> -31 f
[00:39:54] <zeeshan|2> you know its frigging cold when the c value is almost equal to the f value
[00:39:55] <XXCoder1> interesting. how do you deal with cars and cold?
[00:40:04] <zeeshan|2> 75% coolant 25% water
[00:40:06] <XXCoder1> it is. -40 is where its same
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[00:44:13] <XXCoder1> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I8XD9E/ref=s9_simh_gw_p263_d0_i6 heh
[00:44:16] <XXCoder1> random browsing
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[00:50:08] <XXCoder1> lol checked "random" and got this. http://amzn.to/1D4JZxJ
[00:50:23] <XXCoder1> now thats random :P
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[01:01:32] <XXCoder1> zeeshan|2: worth it? http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-5876-Gasket-Scraper/dp/B003EB04VW/
[01:04:17] <XXCoder1> heh sometimes I just don't get amazon suggestion. "Oh I see you bought ford contour pump! You might want another water pumof r completely different car make and year!"
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[01:05:58] <The_Ball> XXCoder1, haha at some point in your life you might, best to hammer it
[01:06:06] <XXCoder1> lol
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[02:23:34] <furrywolf> progress! new brake caliper on one side, new brake hose on the other side.
[02:24:41] <furrywolf> I really wish I could find the previous mechanic to work on my car and beat him/her.
[02:25:00] <furrywolf> every single thing I've fixed is something they fixed.
[02:25:01] <XXCoder1> ow
[02:25:19] <XXCoder1> I remember one time brake mechanic installed brake backwards
[02:26:45] <furrywolf> this one installed the wrong brake rotors, which were a half inch thinner than the correct ones. this allowed the pads to simply fall out between the rotor and the mounts. they also routed the lines the wrong way, so they got chewed up on the tires... but that didn't matter, because once the pads fell out, the pistons overextended and got chewed up by the rotors...
[02:27:58] <mozmck> heh, it was a brake job kinda like that that started me doing almost all my own mechanic work
[02:28:11] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/whatpartdoesn%27tbelong.jpg oh, and it came like that. once the piston got chewed up it started spraying fluid out, so they did that...
[02:28:31] <XXCoder1> what the fuck?
[02:28:40] <mozmck> they were going to rebuild my diesel engine, but I did it myself after the brake job.
[02:28:47] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/whatpartdoesn%27tbelong2.jpg
[02:28:51] <XXCoder1> yeah probably 10 clamps inside
[02:29:49] <furrywolf> everything I've fixed on the car has been a result of such quality repairs. I suspect there wasn't even anything wrong before they fixed things.
[02:30:22] <mozmck> the clamps were to fix the leaks?
[02:30:37] <XXCoder1> "fix" sure
[02:30:46] <furrywolf> the piston had popped out of the caliper. the clamp was to pinch the line shut so the other three wheels would keep working.
[02:30:49] <mozmck> heh, who needs brakes anyhow!
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[02:33:29] <furrywolf> the steering column was floppy when I got it... because they'd left out half the bolts. half the bellhousing bolts were missing too. the oil pressure gauge didn't work because they'd miswired it and burnt it out. the electric fans didn't work because of redneck tap splices. the clutch cable got chewed up by being misrouted around the steering shaft. etc, etc...
[02:33:58] <XXCoder1> been fixing stuff myself and it always works so far
[02:34:05] <XXCoder1> not sure how they screw up so bad.,
[02:34:40] <furrywolf> even little things... for example, the low fuel light didn't work because the bulb was missing from the gauge cluster. wtf?
[02:35:01] <XXCoder1> weird
[02:36:32] <Rab> furrywolf, it was probably moved to replace a more frequently used bulb.
[02:36:53] <furrywolf> quite possibly.
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[02:38:11] <furrywolf> I suspect most of the repairs weren't even needed... like the new rotors. probably a crooked (in addition to incompetent) mechanic selling someone unneeded parts.
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[02:39:09] <furrywolf> the only part of the front brakes that I didn't have to replace was the passenger side caliper. everything else is new... new rotors, new pads, new hoses, and one new caliper.
[02:39:18] <furrywolf> all because of incompetence by the last mechanic.
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[02:40:35] <XXCoder1> ouch
[02:40:40] <furrywolf> the passenger side caliper had also hit the rotor, but I declared the damage to be cosmetic only. heh.
[02:41:53] <furrywolf> or, rather, "good enough!".
[02:47:58] <XXCoder1> heh well in least its not destroyed
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[02:52:47] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: was this in fact a clown car, used by a circus?
[02:54:37] <furrywolf> no
[02:54:49] <furrywolf> sadly, repairs of this grade are common with mechanics...
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[02:56:32] <XXCoder1> not in this area
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[03:15:44] <furrywolf> ok, freecad has already pissed me off. the in-program help has to be loaded from their website. wtf?!
[03:15:51] <furrywolf> it doesn't operate without an internet connection!
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[03:24:32] <XXCoder1> yeah
[03:24:39] <XXCoder1> try that when got no access :(
[03:25:53] <PetefromTn_> there is a forum for help as well as an IRC on freenode and I think you can elect to load the helpfile but I have not tried it.
[03:26:42] <furrywolf> there's no internet where my mill is.
[03:26:50] <furrywolf> hopefully only the help depends on internet...
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[03:27:15] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: is mill in same house?
[03:28:00] <furrywolf> no
[03:28:11] <furrywolf> mill is in rental storage unit
[03:29:24] <XXCoder1> hmm yea
[03:29:32] <XXCoder1> is it less than mile away?
[03:29:39] <tjtr33> re freecad help http://yorik.uncreated.net/scripts/freecad011.pdf
[03:29:41] <tjtr33> its the chm file as pdf
[03:30:33] <furrywolf> it's less than a mile away, but it's also more than one hillside away. (i.e. no line of sight)
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[03:31:27] <XXCoder1> yeah im out of ideas besides just geting another isp connection there heh
[03:31:32] <XXCoder1> can always do dialup
[03:31:44] <furrywolf> no cell coverage there either.
[03:31:58] <furrywolf> it's a storage place. you can't just order a phone line. lol
[03:32:04] <XXCoder1> indeed
[03:32:15] <XXCoder1> I recall magicjack
[03:32:27] <XXCoder1> its cell but then you already said no cell connection tjere
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[03:39:30] * furrywolf curls up and yawns
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[03:41:33] <The_Ball_Shed> furrywolf, could you run a cable to the nearest place where there is line of sight?
[03:42:17] <XXCoder1> or tree - with cannenta
[03:44:12] <furrywolf> it's a RENTAL STORAGE UNIT. I can't even put a nail in a wall, much less install cable, antennas, etc.
[03:44:45] <furrywolf> do they not have ministorage places where you people live? heh
[03:45:25] <XXCoder1> yah never menioned modifing storage itself though
[03:45:33] <PetefromTn_> sounds like you are screwed...if you can't run cables how the hell do you run the machine?
[03:45:37] <XXCoder1> unless its solid metal you could place cannenta inside
[03:45:47] <XXCoder1> the tree is in your own area
[03:45:59] <XXCoder1> if it can be high enough and you have to aim carefully
[03:47:42] <furrywolf> > it's less than a mile away, but it's also more than one hillside away. (i.e. no line of sight)
[03:48:12] <furrywolf> pete: there's an outlet on the front of the building every two storage units
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[03:51:41] <tjtr33> communications = thumbdrive & bicycle sneakerpedalnet
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[03:56:22] * furrywolf has motor vehicles
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[03:59:10] <The_Ball_Shed> I had a cnc accident: https://wigen.net/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=010af27c8a55cb15cffc35db87e5da27
[03:59:33] <The_Ball_Shed> damn quick g0
[03:59:57] <furrywolf> bah. I've already gotten myself stuck in freecad with no idea what to do next. I created a 2d part in the part designer. I then told it I was done editing it. it enabled the buttons for extruding it, etc... but clicking any of them tells me I need to create a 2d part first! it's busy showing the 2d part I just made!
[04:00:27] <Tom_itx> what's it for?
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[04:01:05] <Tom_itx> did you highlite the frame before the extrude?
[04:01:34] <tjtr33> select it? hilight it, or lasso it,or choose from tree, or say it real loud
[04:02:09] <furrywolf> edit->select all doesn't help.
[04:02:32] <Tom_itx> i _could_ extrude it
[04:04:45] <tjtr33> is it asking a constraint to extrude 'to'?
[04:05:06] <furrywolf> ah-ha! now I got an error. "failed to validate broken face".
[04:05:19] <Tom_itx> not a closed drawing ehh?
[04:05:39] <tjtr33> sounds like its getting busy and not giving you a busy indication
[04:05:50] <furrywolf> it SHOULD be closed...
[04:06:10] * furrywolf deletes and starts over with something simpler
[04:06:19] <Tom_itx> aww
[04:09:26] <furrywolf> yay, I made a simple extrusion.
[04:09:45] <Tom_itx> now punch a hole thru the middle of it
[04:11:03] <furrywolf> I created a new sketch, the grid appears... but the second I try adding anything to it, the grid vanishes and nothing happens.
[04:12:54] <furrywolf> I'm getting the "this is an unfinished product and we might write proper error messages someday instead of failing silently" feeling with this program.
[04:13:31] <furrywolf> obviously something is failing. it shows the edit grid, snaps to it, etc... but the second you click, it just goes blank.
[04:13:57] <furrywolf> maybe I'm doing something wrong. it's quite likely. but it should DO SOMETHING, not just blank the window!
[04:15:02] <furrywolf> I deleted it and made another new sketch... now I can add things. what changed? as far as I know, nothing at all.
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[04:15:44] <furrywolf> and now I have a hole in it.
[04:16:21] <Tom_itx> select another face and punch another hole
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[04:17:14] <Tom_itx> how can solidworks add features relative to other features?
[04:17:25] <Tom_itx> instead of the origin
[04:19:26] <furrywolf> now I broke rendering and it's showing a bunch of constantly-changing overlapping triangles instead of the part.
[04:19:35] <furrywolf> it's pretty, but not useful.
[04:19:44] <Tom_itx> sounds like openscad
[04:19:54] <Tom_itx> stl files
[04:19:55] * SpeedEvil could probably now do that in blender.
[04:20:03] <SpeedEvil> After about 4 days.
[04:20:25] <furrywolf> openscad is buggy as fuck. I gave up making it not segfault when rendering.
[04:20:39] <Tom_itx> i quit using it after the first day
[04:20:46] <furrywolf> anything with non-trivial geometry either takes forever or caused a segv.
[04:20:50] <SpeedEvil> blender-recent has not crahed for me.
[04:21:50] <SpeedEvil> You can use it for 3d modeing - it is not terrible - but the problem is a _lot_ of the interface needs to go away if you don't want to make animated textured smooth objects.
[04:22:01] <Tom_itx> i just wish i had a decent pc
[04:22:11] <Tom_itx> amd 3200
[04:22:13] * furrywolf would much rather make animated textured furry objects, but lacks artistic skill
[04:23:05] <SpeedEvil> The above shed I have mentioned above has ony ~100 objects, and maybe 1800 faces, so it's not complex.
[04:24:06] <furrywolf> ok, now I have a part with two holes in it, in different sides. happy? :P
[04:24:14] <Tom_itx> no
[04:24:16] <Tom_itx> thread one
[04:24:17] <Tom_itx> :D
[04:24:24] <SpeedEvil> When finished, I'll end up with only perhaps 600/10000
[04:24:42] <furrywolf> the sketch editor seems really buggy... sometimes parts just stop working and I have to delete and start over. I have no idea why. it could well be something I'm doing, but it just fails instead of says anything.
[04:24:49] <SpeedEvil> More if I decide to do all the screws and plugs
[04:25:01] <furrywolf> for example, the last circle I created, it stopped letting me move the center. deleting and creating a new circle let me move the center. etc.
[04:25:10] <SpeedEvil> But that may be procrastination over actually cutting wood.
[04:25:20] <Tom_itx> it's free, what do you expect?
[04:26:20] <furrywolf> can't find any way to add threads...
[04:26:36] <Tom_itx> draw a profile and rotate it around a helix
[04:27:12] <furrywolf> that's excessive. I want to specify that there should be threads, not specify the geometry directly.
[04:27:33] <furrywolf> I'd probably be tapping them anyway.
[04:27:45] <Tom_itx> yeah, it's just an exercise...
[04:27:50] <Tom_itx> i tried it in SW
[04:28:01] <PetefromTn_> there is an add on that allows you to import 3d screws, bolts, nuts etc..
[04:28:06] <furrywolf> specifying the exact thread geometry would only be useful for machining them with a cutter, and only with some very powerful CAM software...
[04:28:34] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ i know but that wasn't the purpose of the exercicse
[04:29:17] <furrywolf> argh, now it's back to doing the vanish-entire-window-whenever-I-click-anything thing.
[04:29:41] <PetefromTn_> I have done the helix wrap thing too it works decently..
[04:30:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/reprap/Test_thread.jpg
[04:31:33] <PetefromTn_> helical cut rather... I thought it worked better than adding a helical triangular addition.
[04:31:41] <furrywolf> seems like if you have both a sketch and the part visible, it breaks.
[04:32:53] <furrywolf> hrmm. apparantly if you cut two pockets that happen to intersect... it removes them from the main part, then ADDS material for the intersection?! I want to subtract, not xor...
[04:33:04] <Tom_itx> heh
[04:33:42] <furrywolf> ... or not. I changed views and it went away. it was just a rendering glitch.
[04:34:26] <furrywolf> how do I cut a pocket out of a curved face? :P
[04:34:51] <Tom_itx> can you project the pocket onto the face?
[04:35:43] <Tom_itx> it depends how you need it defined
[04:38:46] <furrywolf> I can't seem to make revolutions work... even if I specify 360 degrees, it shows it as still a flat planar object.
[04:41:14] <furrywolf> I have a simple closed sketch only in one quadrant, just in case it requires that, and it still does absolutely nothing. no errors, no worky. again.
[04:42:24] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder1: that looks fancy
[04:42:32] <zeeshan|2> but i personally use this:
[04:42:46] <zeeshan|2> http://www.techniedge.com/products/images/46_TE05-091_thumb.jpg
[04:42:53] <zeeshan|2> i think a pack of them is like a buck?
[04:42:56] <zeeshan|2> at the dollar s tore
[04:43:02] <XXCoder1> lol yeah
[04:44:44] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15571410083/
[04:44:53] <zeeshan|2> anyone got a nice suggestion to wrap the wire bundles
[04:44:58] <zeeshan|2> i want them to be in 3 seperate looms
[04:45:00] <zeeshan|2> what to use?
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[04:46:44] <XXCoder1> zip ties?
[04:46:56] <furrywolf> grrrr. now it's doing something weird/useless again, with no explanation. I added another feature, and now all my pockets stopped working.
[04:46:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/images/wireloom/NonSlitWireloom3.jpg
[04:47:02] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of something like that XXCoder1
[04:47:13] <zeeshan|2> but that stuff isn't really strong
[04:47:29] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/control1.jpg
[04:47:35] <Tom_itx> use that expandable tubing
[04:47:37] <Tom_itx> mesh
[04:47:37] <furrywolf> it shows their outline, but doesn't subtract them. toggling their visibility makes it do the random triangles thing again.
[04:47:49] <zeeshan|2> hm
[04:47:53] <Tom_itx> like i used on the driver power
[04:47:54] <zeeshan|2> whered go you et that
[04:48:03] <Tom_itx> local
[04:48:05] <zeeshan|2> wow that wasn't even a sentence..
[04:48:08] <Tom_itx> i forget what it's called
[04:48:14] <zeeshan|2> expanding wire loom?
[04:48:37] <furrywolf> there's something seriously broken with visibility.
[04:48:59] <Rab> zeeshan|2, use the split loom with cable clamps in lieu of zip ties: http://www.cableclamp.com/
[04:49:20] <zeeshan|2> you think im rich
[04:49:26] <zeeshan|2> zip ties cost like 2 cents
[04:49:27] <zeeshan|2> =D
[04:49:54] <furrywolf> if I make my revolution vsibile, my unrelated pockets either vanish, or are replaced with random green triangles.
[04:50:19] <furrywolf> also, toggling the visibility of the second pocket makes the entire part appear and disappear, even unrelated parts of it.
[04:50:27] <furrywolf> not just the pocket.
[04:50:55] <Rab> zeeshan|2, the labor to cut and reapply them each time you want to change the wiring configuration isn't free.
[04:51:03] <zeeshan|2> rab i wont be cutting em again
[04:51:06] <zeeshan|2> just need to loom it up
[04:51:11] <Rab> zeeshan|2, that's what you think!
[04:51:14] <zeeshan|2> haha
[04:51:20] <Tom_itx> http://www.zoro.com/i/G0243293/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kpid=G0243293&gclid=COCDqo7F-cICFYRFaQodfosA1w
[04:51:26] <Tom_itx> ebay it
[04:51:44] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: i dont understand how that sleeving will get over my square connectors
[04:51:51] <zeeshan|2> is it really flexible?
[04:52:08] <Rab> It expands when compressed along its axis, like a chinese finger trap.
[04:52:14] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoro.com/g/Wrap%20for%20Welding/00121561/?category=7410
[04:52:14] <furrywolf> I used some of that woven loom stuff a bit ago on an air compressor's wiring... works well. not easy to modify later, however, I suspect.
[04:52:15] <zeeshan|2> OOOO
[04:52:16] <zeeshan|2> i like that!
[04:52:21] <Rab> I don't know if it will expand enough to clear the connectors.
[04:52:23] <zeeshan|2> that is BAD ASS!
[04:52:31] <zeeshan|2> rab ah
[04:52:52] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoro.com/g/Pan-Wrap%20Split%20Harness%20Wrap/00105244/?category=7410
[04:52:54] <zeeshan|2> this is kind acool too
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[04:53:13] <furrywolf> only $10/ft!
[04:53:30] <zeeshan|2> thats what i have on my welder
[04:53:35] <zeeshan|2> the velcro style
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[04:54:21] <zeeshan|2> http://www.zoro.com/g/Sleeving%20-%20Self%20Wrap%20Braided/00121559/?category=7410
[04:54:27] <zeeshan|2> this looks similar to what you posted, but its split
[04:56:34] <furrywolf> zoro is generally quite overpriced.
[04:56:38] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/3d-printing/hybridized-3d-printed-part-combines-plastic-and-metal
[04:56:55] <furrywolf> and they spam ebay with every item they have, equally overpriced. this is enough to convince me not to do business with them.
[04:57:09] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[05:01:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linearmotiontips.com/zip-type-telescoping-actuators-help-specialty-applications/
[05:04:24] * furrywolf has several linear actuators with multiple nesting telescopic sections... in fact, most people with an old truck have at least one. they're screw jacks. :P
[05:07:01] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:07:32] <furrywolf> I've given up figuring out why making my revolution visible breaks the rest of the part, and am deciding freecad is not yet usable.
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[05:07:47] <furrywolf> too many things randomly don't work, silently fail, etc.
[05:07:57] <furrywolf> and doing the same thing twice doesn't always do the same thing!
[05:09:00] <bobo_> zeeshan!2: On your mill - what is that stuff on the top of the movable arm that is for moving vertical head aside to use the horzinal spindle?
[05:11:01] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 it's pretty flexible but may not expand quite that much
[05:11:15] <Tom_itx> i put mine over the wires first
[05:11:25] <Tom_itx> only down side is the ends fray a bit
[05:12:38] <XXCoder1> "The pinworm egg, representing an undescribed or "new species," was named Paleoxyuriscockburni, in honor of Aidan Cockburn, founder of the Paleopathology Association."
[05:12:45] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, that link was an example... get it off ebay
[05:12:45] <XXCoder1> cock burn. jeez. lol
[05:13:27] <XXCoder1> name of that worm has "ur is cock burn"
[05:26:06] <zeeshan|2> yes Tom_itx
[05:26:51] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: what thing
[05:27:04] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15549651754/in/photostream/
[05:27:06] <zeeshan|2> are you talking about that pic?
[05:27:39] <bobo_> yes
[05:28:13] <zeeshan|2> the moveable arm i think was used for holding collets
[05:28:27] <zeeshan|2> or you know you might actually be RIGHT
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[05:28:35] <bobo_> looks like a mouse on top
[05:28:35] <zeeshan|2> it is in the same level as the head.
[05:28:52] <zeeshan|2> maybe it is to go into horziontal mode
[05:29:07] <zeeshan|2> lol
[05:29:12] <zeeshan|2> i jhust realize dthere is a happy face on my mill
[05:29:22] <zeeshan|2> gf musta done that when i wasnt looking
[05:29:45] <bobo_> for swinging the vert head aside
[05:29:57] <zeeshan|2> bobo_: i really think that might be the reason
[05:30:12] <zeeshan|2> its at the same height.
[05:31:52] <bobo_> so swing the vertical aside and get a picture of the horz spindle.
[05:33:27] <bobo_> might help figure what pull stud is needed by looking into horz spindle
[05:35:47] <zeeshan|2> or you could send me one of your tools
[05:35:48] <zeeshan|2> to try :-)
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[05:39:07] <bobo_> please consider the vertical head is not lite tools ? think you mean pull stud . look upT.J.Davies #PS475 which may be Maho pull stud
[05:40:10] <zeeshan|2> imm move the vertical head after
[05:40:14] <zeeshan|2> everything is running :P
[05:41:25] <bobo_> every thing ? life is short
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[08:48:08] <Deejay> moin
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[08:56:54] <G0704> hii
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[09:21:48] <G0704> hi
[09:23:02] <Deejay> hi
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[09:25:53] <G0704> what is the alternative to the servo motors?
[09:26:06] <G0704> i have about 1500 for motors
[09:26:50] <Deejay> i think that depends on your machine
[09:26:55] * Deejay uses stepper motors :)
[09:26:57] <G0704> G0704
[09:27:48] <G0704> I've order from automationtechnologiesinc
[09:28:05] <G0704> and get junk
[09:28:24] <G0704> I've order the kit.
[09:29:07] <G0704> to send it back going to cost me about the price of the ballscrew.
[09:29:29] <G0704> so I'm basiclly stuck with it :(
[09:30:26] <G0704> I need about 600 oz/in motor.
[09:31:00] <G0704> do you think the geako G320X is good option?
[09:32:01] <Deejay> sorry, no idea :/
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[09:36:24] <G0704> what machine you have?
[09:37:42] <G0704> in cnczone you dont have freedom of speech, they censored people
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[11:41:34] <anonimas1> pcw_home: are you there?
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[13:04:09] <jdh> my g0704 steppers came from automationtechnologies
[13:05:24] <Jymmm> archivist: Stirling Engine http://www.dxsoul.com/product/neje-diy-mini-hot-air-stirling-engine-motor-model-toy-antique-copper-silver-grey-901365004
[13:12:15] <archivist> there is no "Antique Copper" in that at all
[13:12:35] <Jymmm> hahahahaha
[13:12:46] <Jymmm> Thought you would get a kick out of it =)
[13:13:21] <archivist> a water elbow
[13:13:30] <SpeedEvil> Sure tehre is.
[13:13:33] <SpeedEvil> Due to recycling
[13:14:47] <archivist> aint nuffink antique after melting down
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[13:24:11] <SpeedEvil> Everyone alive contains a significant number of atoms from Adolf hitler.
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[14:02:39] <somenewguy> well, depending on your definition of significant
[14:02:57] <SpeedEvil> More than I can count without using scientific notation.
[14:04:38] <somenewguy> heh
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[15:48:49] <CaptHindsight> where are all the 3-8KW versions of those Stirling Engines?
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[15:54:08] <malcom2073> They're on solar dishes
[15:54:16] <archivist> where is the Philips stirling engine now
[15:54:56] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: 25kw enough? http://www.unitedsunsystems.com/
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[16:12:14] <malcom2073> Anyone know where I can get 3d models for THK rail carriages? Their website has modles for the rails themselves, but not the carriages
[16:13:08] <archivist> cant take more than a few minutes to draw up
[16:13:37] <malcom2073> I'm fairly new and low at modeling, figured I'd ask before I spent the time doing so :)
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[16:30:25] <G0704> hi
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[16:45:08] <alex____w> morning
[16:46:28] <CaptHindsight> malcom2073: 3-5x too large, any idea of that 25kw versions price?
[16:49:27] <malcom2073> CaptHindsight: Not a clue, probably in the tens of thousands
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[16:57:34] <Deejay__> re
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[16:58:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.genoastirling.com/engine-available.php actual pricing
[16:59:15] <CaptHindsight> Operating temperature:(hot side) 750 °C
[16:59:55] <Tom_itx> malcom2073, did you look in here: https://tech.thk.com/index_en.php
[17:01:50] <malcom2073> weird, I had found 3d models of the rails on their website before, and had not had to log in
[17:01:55] <malcom2073> gotta create an account to download it from there...
[17:02:12] <malcom2073> Ah well I'll give that a shot
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[18:02:09] <tjtr33> where is halcompile? i just made a new git-rip install(make & setuid), then 'cd linuxcnc-dev' , then '. scripts/rip-environment',
[18:02:10] <tjtr33> but 'sudo halcompile blah.comp' gets me 'sudo: halcompile: command not found'
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[18:06:18] <tjtr33> eh> halcompile is in linuxcnc-dev/bin/ but sourcing the rip-env script doesnt 'find' it !?!
[18:10:24] <tjtr33> hmm, cant sudo that cmd now bad old docs floating around
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[18:14:37] <tjtr33> the 'man halcompile' synopsis is misleading it shows "sudo halcompile --install --userspace cfile..."
[18:15:10] <tjtr33> but skipping the sudo 'works'
[18:15:55] <CaptHindsight> isn't it another thing that is not supposed to run as root?
[18:16:11] <CaptHindsight> I forget what parts are and aren't
[18:20:37] <furrywolf> it's better to grind flats on stepper motor shafts rather than leave them smooth, right?
[18:21:10] <archivist> depends on the drive coupler
[18:21:18] <marmite> i hate china
[18:21:33] <marmite> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jckoc3dz2v6mw1m/20150104_185908.jpg?dl=0 china psu
[18:21:46] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, Jepler's talk notes show sudo if installed from cd, and not sudo if rip ( thats intuitive ;)
[18:21:49] <marmite> belive i have just blown my driver for my router
[18:22:01] <furrywolf> archivist: a timing pulley with a set screw
[18:22:25] <furrywolf> marmite: my chinese breakout board exploded 30mins after starting to use it.
[18:22:52] <archivist> furrywolf, in that case a dimple or two
[18:22:56] <marmite> furrywolf: sweet
[18:23:02] <marmite> mine has worked for 2 years _:D
[18:23:09] <marmite> and the drivers
[18:23:12] <archivist> I had a psu explode nicely
[18:23:21] <marmite> but wanted a 42 v psu
[18:23:58] <furrywolf> http://fw.bushytails.net/bbcaps/bbcap02.jpg
[18:24:40] <tjtr33> hehe the marconi confetti generator
[18:24:45] <marmite> 48
[18:24:59] <marmite> haha _:DD wth
[18:25:06] <marmite> is yhat a capactiro?
[18:25:08] <marmite> cap
[18:25:10] <archivist> was
[18:25:16] <marmite> cute
[18:25:19] <furrywolf> I'm building my own psu... got a 40vac transformer, 50a rectifier, 37000uf cap, 75v zener, and a fuse holder. :)
[18:25:27] <marmite> gotta love those china caps
[18:25:34] <furrywolf> yes, was.
[18:25:36] <marmite> oh nice
[18:25:39] <marmite> ring transformer?
[18:25:44] <marmite> allways loved them _:D
[18:25:46] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, what's the zenner for?
[18:25:50] <archivist> hardly need the zener
[18:25:59] <furrywolf> I'm hoping my simple unregulated power supply is a fair bit more reliable!
[18:26:11] <archivist> better to make a crowbar
[18:26:13] <CaptHindsight> isn't it better that they fail obviously rather than slowly and silently and allow ripple?
[18:26:22] <furrywolf> tom: to make sure the voltage doesn't go over the drive's 80v rating during braking.
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[18:26:31] <marmite> well allways use diodes
[18:26:40] <marmite> allways a god secure safty
[18:26:49] <marmite> yeah
[18:26:56] <tjtr33> maybe add a bleed resistor for discharging
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[18:27:13] <marmite> oh good idea
[18:27:24] <Tom_itx> i don't know enough about back emf
[18:27:30] <Tom_itx> i know diodes help
[18:27:32] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: I have one of those poorly documented BOB's as well on my desk
[18:27:35] <furrywolf> archivist: a crowbar is for protecting against regulator failure... this isn't regulated. I just want to make sure it can bleed off a little extra power if, say, I stop all three axises (axi? axes?) from full speed all at once with a big heavy block of steel on the table...
[18:27:42] <marmite> and think of the gap betwen rails
[18:28:02] <furrywolf> my tests show my drivers do an excellent job bleeding the supply all on their own. not too worried there.
[18:28:26] <furrywolf> capt: this one came with decent documentation
[18:29:03] <marmite> ppl are bad at making holes in there pcb _:/
[18:29:06] <furrywolf> there's not much to document... it has one jumper, and the connections are labeled with the parallel port pin they're connected to. heh.
[18:29:33] <marmite> dont know whats it called in english _:D but when you cut out a piece of the pcb so there is a larger surfance distans between leads
[18:29:49] <CaptHindsight> I have the exact same one , Mach3 v1.1 0302
[18:30:07] <marmite> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/FSP/AURUM_92_650W/images/in_main_PCB_close3_small.jpg lik this one
[18:30:11] <marmite> with the opto coupler
[18:30:26] <furrywolf> https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=88FB603BF7956247!186&app=WordPdf&authkey=!APSeNu5hZHOhv5k is the link mine came with
[18:30:38] <tjtr33> marmite i've seen that, the dielectric constant of air is a pretty good resistor
[18:30:52] <furrywolf> I found it more than adequate to connect it.
[18:30:56] <marmite> yes it is ^^ tjtr33
[18:31:40] <marmite> and if you do your own pcb´its reather easy to make aswell
[18:31:46] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: I usually RE the design to really see what they did
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[18:32:21] <CaptHindsight> I especially enjoy the ones that have jumpers that let you short power to ground
[18:32:44] <CaptHindsight> or bypass all the optoisolation
[18:33:03] <furrywolf> capt: this one is pretty trivial... the lm317 supplies 10v for the inputs. the outputs are only buffered, not isolated, with the buffer chips running off the power pins from the usb connector, which are also wired to the pc5v terminals if you don't want to use the usb cable.
[18:33:47] <furrywolf> I didn't analyze the 0-10v output, not having a variable frequency drive, but it looks like a simple opamp constant current charging/discharging a cap, to turn the pwm into a voltage.
[18:33:56] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: are you sure, there are lots of clueless "engineers" that lay those boards out
[18:34:04] <furrywolf> am I sure about what?
[18:34:52] <CaptHindsight> it might actually have those part numbers but you might be surprised by how they actually connect them
[18:35:10] <furrywolf> ... there's really not a lot of parts on the board. lol
[18:35:22] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't take much
[18:36:26] <furrywolf> I briefly analyzed everything but the spindle control when I was hooking it up... it works in the obvious fashion. the 10v is an odd voltage to use for the switch inputs, and should be kept in mind if you wire it to anything non-mechanical.
[18:36:55] <skunkworks> we have a few of those also. they seem to work ok.. http://youtu.be/HPzow8L1dxw?t=52s
[18:37:19] <furrywolf> the jumper just disconnects the relay so you don't try pwming its coil.
[18:37:23] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgraded-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Mach3-USB-Cable-/310702269807 $14.20
[18:37:53] <CaptHindsight> I think it came with tiny CD
[18:38:05] <furrywolf> you can't use the spindle control and the B axis at the same time
[18:38:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebaypa.com/albums/20120005/sku062631_19.jpg
[18:38:56] <furrywolf> ok. and?
[18:39:19] * furrywolf has lost track of what capt's point is
[18:39:54] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: http://xkcd.com/365/
[18:41:26] <CaptHindsight> don't be surprised by pointless jumpers, lack of isolation, and other odd design choices on those boards
[18:42:20] <furrywolf> capt: I don't know about other boards... I know this board has one jumper which serves a useful, obvious function, and what is and isn't isolated is obvious. the step/dir/enable/etc outputs are not isolated, while the inputs and spindle control are.
[18:42:30] <CaptHindsight> there seems to be about 5-6 cheap BOB's being sold, I'm trying to get around to a wiki page for each
[18:42:37] <archivist> and you end up with too much series R to your driver optos
[18:43:21] <CaptHindsight> since it confuses people that don't have an electronics background and the docs don't help them either
[18:43:46] <CaptHindsight> and they come here for help wiring them up
[18:43:47] <archivist> reason both the BOB and driver carry a series R suitable for 5v
[18:44:11] <furrywolf> arch: which is why it uses a pair of octal bus drivers.
[18:44:34] <tjtr33> archivist, solder shorting wire across one res?
[18:44:56] <furrywolf> powered off the usb plug or the pc5v terminals. (they're just wired together)
[18:45:04] <archivist> tjtr33, Ii can deal with that sort of problem noobs cannot
[18:45:19] <tjtr33> yah, understood
[18:45:22] <furrywolf> there's no resistors on the outputs. it just runs the bus drivers out.
[18:47:08] <furrywolf> I don't have any complaints about the design of the board... just a serious one about the substandard and counterfeit components installed on it!
[18:48:09] <CaptHindsight> $15 with shiiping from China that will cost you $20 ti return by USPS and take 30+ days
[18:48:42] <CaptHindsight> that's also on their business plan
[18:49:20] <furrywolf> the auction you pasted is $15 with shipping from the US. in fact, that's the exact auction I bought mine from. and I got a refund without having to return the board, after it exploded.
[18:49:28] <furrywolf> I think it took about three days to get here.
[18:49:32] <CaptHindsight> nice
[18:49:36] <tjtr33> dunno if its planned but its sure is an advantatge for China ( fast & cheap out, slow & expensive return )
[18:50:08] <furrywolf> I still have it, but it's non-functional in other ways... the exploded cap was a short, and took the lm317 out with it. lm317s are supposed to current limit into a short, but this is a chinese counterfeit...
[18:50:24] <furrywolf> there's now 0V on the 10V rail, so it doesn't work very well...
[18:50:33] <CaptHindsight> 2-3 day Fedex only costs me $50-75 for 2Kg from China, why is it >$150 going the other way?
[18:50:59] <furrywolf> it's also possible the lm317 originally failed shorted instead of open, causing the cap to pop, which then shorted, and caused the lm317 to open...
[18:51:08] <archivist> china has some sort of export subsidy on the postage
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[18:51:43] <SpeedEvil> IIRC M317 doesn't current limit
[18:51:46] <SpeedEvil> it thermally limits
[18:51:57] <SpeedEvil> But yes - it shold not explode
[18:52:21] <furrywolf> I don't know the sequence of events, but I do know the cap catastrophically failed (it bent the can of the cap next to it!), and the lm317 is now open.
[18:52:22] <CaptHindsight> when I receive packages in China I pay 10% duty, even if the item is a sample, then they charge 10% of the postage
[18:52:41] <furrywolf> the entire board was covered in cap guts
[18:52:46] <tjtr33> trick: mark returns as 'parts' to lower costs at customs ( not faster, but cheaper a bit )
[18:53:29] <furrywolf> I got a replacement board... going to toss some new caps on it before powering it up.
[18:53:43] <Rab> furrywolf, input or output cap?
[18:54:01] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: ever bring a small potted plant back from Asia to get through customs back here faster?
[18:54:40] <furrywolf> rab: the cap that popped was the filter for the 10v rail, provided by an lm317.
[18:54:41] <tjtr33> wash till bare roots & i got one thru, other times confiscated. depends on the attitude of agent
[18:54:44] -!- gene78 [gene78!~gene@204.111.64.149] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:55:02] <Rab> furrywolf, I understand that. So, output?
[18:55:29] <CaptHindsight> you can't bring the plant in so you have them toss it and you walk out, the line is usually shorter when you declare something
[18:55:32] <furrywolf> yes, output of the lm317.
[18:56:06] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: so it was the soil they were more concerned about
[18:56:37] -!- swingley has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[18:56:41] <tjtr33> yep dirt is nono, and yes, the short line trick: declare a 10$ item, and they say 'getouttahere' ;)
[18:57:16] <XXCoder> nice tip
[18:57:25] <XXCoder> $10 express line
[18:57:37] <tjtr33> ymmv
[18:58:01] <CaptHindsight> I also never get stopped beyond "are these your only bags" when all I have are carry on
[18:58:48] * furrywolf can't afford international travel, so has never been through customs
[18:58:50] <tjtr33> ah, tools is a problem... whats this? its a mu meter, whats it for ... argh
[18:59:06] <CaptHindsight> I ship tools or leave them
[19:00:05] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: do they ever ask you what you do for work?
[19:00:35] <tjtr33> haha thats same thing. EDM whats that? dian wah!
[19:00:40] <furrywolf> I wish I could afford to travel. :(
[19:01:01] <tjtr33> furrywolf, i'm just a repairman with a long commute, nothing to envy
[19:01:22] <CaptHindsight> I work outside the US so I can afford to travel
[19:01:36] <furrywolf> I work for minimum wage driving a delivery van. trust me, your job inspires envy. :P
[19:02:03] <XXCoder> minium wage operating cnc machine here
[19:02:10] <CaptHindsight> US coo's don't want to pay for anything
[19:02:15] <CaptHindsight> co's
[19:02:20] <XXCoder> intern heh
[19:02:52] <tjtr33> well, machine repair can get you travel, and there's job opps now. tho most companies want you independant ( no medical )
[19:04:00] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[19:04:12] <CaptHindsight> I think it was the late 90's when R&D became gambling since most managers can't tell the difference between someone that knows what they are doing and doesn't, they seem to think a degree is a degree, especially in science and engineering
[19:04:12] -!- micges [micges!~toudi@aehz186.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has parted #linuxcnc
[19:04:15] <tjtr33> if you can build a linuxcnc system, you got the skills needed. if you have retrofit a real machine, then you have experience
[19:04:53] <tjtr33> degrees are not found on the guys in the field. bench guys have degrees
[19:09:33] <furrywolf> I think I'll replace the counterfeit 220uf 16v caps with name-brand 68uf 26v caps... because that's what I have, and they probably have lower esr anyway...
[19:10:03] <CaptHindsight> I get offered permanent positions all the time, but they only want to pay peanuts
[19:10:31] <CaptHindsight> hire you to finish whatever their masterminds can't and then let you go
[19:10:59] <CaptHindsight> in the US anyway
[19:12:19] <PetefromTn_> doing just machine repair?
[19:12:38] <mttr> anyone using rhino out there
[19:12:49] <CaptHindsight> design, engineering etc
[19:14:13] <CaptHindsight> build some machine or automation system on a production line
[19:15:40] <Tom_itx> or build the production line...
[19:15:55] <CaptHindsight> pay you $60K/year but only want you for 6-9 months to build a $500K machine for less
[19:16:21] <furrywolf> ... 6-9 months at $60k/year would be three years of my income.
[19:16:37] <CaptHindsight> then they call you back a year later to fix the mess they tried to build
[19:19:46] * furrywolf lacks sympathy
[19:20:31] <furrywolf> you're bitching about only making three years of my income in half a year?
[19:20:33] <CaptHindsight> the point was the cheapness of most companies
[19:21:00] <furrywolf> that's not cheapness. that's incredibly well-paying.
[19:21:15] <Rab> furrywolf, you're bitching about someone being paid more for more complex work?
[19:22:07] <CaptHindsight> furrywolf: then there's lots of work for you out there
[19:23:08] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, how much should it be worth?
[19:23:36] <furrywolf> rab: I'm bitching about his bitching that it's poor pay, not about the pay itself.
[19:23:37] <CaptHindsight> up to you
[19:23:46] <tjtr33> mttr i'd like to use rhino, and grasshopper , buts its on that other operating system. ( way cool tho )
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[19:24:38] <Tom_itx> permanent positions are becoming more scarce
[19:24:50] <mttr> i run it on a vm and does work you have to use vmware though as virtualbox does not do 3d
[19:25:11] <tjtr33> oh thx, will try then
[19:25:26] <mttr> i'm having an issue with naked edges even on simple objects
[19:25:48] <Tom_itx> and there's the whole retirement / pension thing that killed detroit
[19:26:21] <CaptHindsight> and playing the derivatives market
[19:26:23] <Rab> furrywolf, it might actually be poor pay. If you're, say, 45yo and supporting a family, and it took you 20 years to acquire the skills to do the job, there are more considerations in play than "well that's 4x minimum wage, what's the problem".
[19:27:05] <furrywolf> rab: guess what? 45 year-olds supporting familys often end up working for minimum wage too.
[19:27:09] <furrywolf> families
[19:28:10] <CaptHindsight> I'm just pointing out the situation. It's up to you to ignore it and do nothing about it.
[19:28:59] <Tom_itx> you want a guaranteed wage with a 5-10yr buyout contract?
[19:29:16] <Tom_itx> starting to sound like major sports
[19:29:22] <furrywolf> lol
[19:30:24] <CaptHindsight> Africa is staring to look interesting since China is just starting to exploit it
[19:32:46] <CaptHindsight> Vietnam for automation and manufacturing
[19:34:04] <tjtr33> Will China realize Africa just doesnt have skilled workers, and grab Thailand-Vietnam?
[19:35:16] -!- anth0ny_ has quit [Quit: anth0ny_]
[19:35:31] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: they just trade infrastructure for resources
[19:36:12] <tjtr33> yah didnt think that thru
[19:37:48] <CaptHindsight> aren't there lots of jobs here in health care, surveillance and munitions?
[19:40:06] <furrywolf> bbl, making a $2 breakfast in the microwave.
[19:40:12] <CaptHindsight> how did I forget the biggest one, finance
[19:40:33] <Rab> There's a neat SF novel, Stand On Zanzibar, which describes a private company taking over and bootstrapping an African nation for cheap manufacturing.
[19:44:52] -!- swingley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:46:25] <CaptHindsight> Rab: from 1968
[19:46:33] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_on_Zanzibar
[19:46:39] <tjtr33> linuxcnc originally appealed to me as a sort of socialistic DIY revolution. power to the people! shoes for the people! and Ray Henry was the evangelista showing people how to do it.
[19:47:50] <tjtr33> ^^^ thats science fiction, when you get right on the edge, its half real, half in your head, some you can touch, the rest you imagine ( real sci fi )
[19:48:10] <CaptHindsight> I used to read lots of SF from the 40's-70's, I was surprised by how much dystopia has actually taken place and by how many actually support it against their own interests.
[19:49:04] <tjtr33> had to google it "an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."
[19:49:05] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was it a personal project that became part of his guberment job or?
[19:49:34] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dystopia
[19:49:59] <tjtr33> no Ray was a leader in the early EMC days, with John Kasunich & Matt Shaffer ( ? spelling )
[19:50:21] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/emc-history.html
[19:52:02] <CaptHindsight> ah, Fred Proctor was with NIST
[19:52:47] <tjtr33> one of the early servers used by EMC was named Zelazny
[19:53:03] <cradek> I tried to contact ray to wish him happy christmas, but failed to find him
[19:53:08] <cradek> has anyone talked to him recently?
[19:53:45] <tjtr33> Merry Christmas Ray! best of the new year to you!
[19:54:17] <tjtr33> no havent heard for years now, last comm was about Cardinal engineering's Roland getting better after heart attack
[19:56:40] Loetmichel2 is now known as Loetmichel
[19:57:24] <tjtr33> maybe Jon knows?
[19:57:50] <cradek> I found a different email to try
[19:58:13] <tjtr33> say hi & thx
[19:59:35] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: linuxcnc seems to be accepted in Taiwan, do you find any resistance to it here?
[20:00:05] <CaptHindsight> besides it being non traditional Fanuc, Seimens etc
[20:01:24] <gene78> Have I got a bug in the current 2.6.5? I have a subroutine that sets G91, G91.1 at the top, then drills a counterbore.
[20:01:39] <PetefromTn_> CaptHindsight Well I hate to say it but for once I completely agree with you LOL
[20:01:40] <CaptHindsight> on the mainland they seem to lean towards Mach or home grown if it's not Fanuc, Seimens etc
[20:02:41] <gene78> The instant it comes back from subroutine call, it restores to G90, G90.1 so it can position absolute for the next of 9 steps of this.
[20:03:50] <gene78> but the counterbore is a 50% error when I try to load it.
[20:04:51] <Loetmichel> *soooo...* done... and my desk ist covered in wood dust from sanding that thing off... now my wife can store her tablets/laptops/ tv remotes/ cellhones over the nightstand and doesent trow it to the ground every night ;-)
[20:04:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15499&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[20:05:55] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, I tried to contact YiShin Li ( arais robo) no luck. there's a govt cnc from MIRL or ITRI but it sucks. all advantech pcbs.
[20:08:51] amnesic_away is now known as amnesic
[20:10:32] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: the big machines in China get name brand controls, the small stuff tends to get proprietary stuff written for an ARM board (like reprap)
[20:11:05] <gene78> Have I got a bug in the current 2.6.5? I have a subroutine that sets G91, G91.1 at the top, then drills a counterbore.
[20:11:10] <gene78> The instant it comes back from subroutine call, it restores to G90, G90.1 so it can position absolute for the next of 9 steps of this.
[20:11:14] <gene78> but the counterbore is a 50% error when I try to load it.
[20:11:49] <gene78> Anybody?
[20:11:59] <CaptHindsight> the feedback I hear about Linuxcnc is "not many people can use Linux" and for smaller machines they are more concerned about getting copied instantly by their competitors
[20:12:26] <roycroft> that's ridiculous
[20:12:33] <roycroft> *nix is easy to use
[20:12:41] <CaptHindsight> so they want something harder to copy, ARM and something proprietary
[20:12:42] <XXCoder> linux is bit complex but so are windows. people just usually have more experence on windows.
[20:12:44] <roycroft> it's windows that's so difficult to deal with
[20:13:08] <gene78> totally
[20:13:22] <CaptHindsight> it's just what I have been told when I bring it up
[20:13:33] <roycroft> industry metrics show that shops that move from *nux to windows have to increase their it staffing by 50%
[20:13:59] <XXCoder> probably because theres more crapware for windows
[20:14:16] <roycroft> also it takes so much longer to do anything
[20:14:31] <roycroft> my classic example is a customer who was setting up dns zone files on a windows server
[20:14:38] <roycroft> the process was insane
[20:14:54] <roycroft> he would click click click click click like mad to get to the point of defining a rr
[20:14:55] <LeelooMinai> roycroft: What is that strange planet you live on? :) Can one buy a ticket and fly there3 somehow? :p
[20:15:01] <roycroft> then click on a button to enter the host name
[20:15:06] <roycroft> click on a button to add the rr type
[20:15:22] <roycroft> when it came to the ip address, click on a button to enter the first octet
[20:15:29] <roycroft> click on a button to enter the second octet
[20:15:30] <roycroft> etc.
[20:15:43] <roycroft> it took about a minute of mad clicking to add a single rr to the zone file
[20:15:55] <roycroft> i can do that in about 4 seconds with a text editor on a *nix machine
[20:17:32] <CaptHindsight> I think that they would be better of focusing on the actual technology that they are controlling vs concern over the software controlling it
[20:18:44] <tjtr33> on a CNC machine running RTX over Windows, the user never sees Windows, as users neednt see linux with RTAI. its fear, no real basis.
[20:18:54] <CaptHindsight> most of the time they don't really see or understand the difference between a machine that works well for year vs decades
[20:20:09] <roycroft> i agree that a turn-key application like a cnc controller need not directly expose the user to the operating system, rendering an argument about how windows is perceived to be more "user friendly" moot
[20:20:45] <roycroft> at which point it boils down to the development environment and system administration
[20:20:56] <LeelooMinai> UNless you need to deal with installing and maintaing the software.
[20:21:14] <roycroft> both of which are much easier on a *nix platform than on widows
[20:21:17] <roycroft> windows
[20:21:56] <LeelooMinai> That's questionable I guess:)
[20:22:01] <roycroft> no it's not
[20:22:12] <roycroft> facts are not arguable
[20:22:17] <tjtr33> hey how about them bears?
[20:22:23] <tjtr33> :)
[20:22:32] <roycroft> the problem is that a lot of developers were raised on windows, and don't know that there are easier/more robust environments
[20:22:34] <CaptHindsight> I was thinking the resistance there might be that Linuxcnc is an old US guberment project
[20:22:54] <roycroft> and that is a valid argument to make - it's easier to find windows programming talent than *nix programming talent
[20:22:58] <tjtr33> oh, which comes from the 'we cant export 5 axis tech'?
[20:23:37] <CaptHindsight> heh
[20:23:37] <LeelooMinai> roycroft: Not for the desktop machines.
[20:23:47] <CaptHindsight> like they don't make it already for years
[20:24:24] <XXCoder> linuxcnc was old goverment project
[20:24:25] <XXCoder> ?
[20:24:27] <roycroft> i won't bother arguing with you on that point leeloominai
[20:24:39] <roycroft> because the discussion at hand is a turn-key cnc application
[20:24:46] <roycroft> not a general purpose desktop machien
[20:25:03] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/emc-history.html
[20:25:26] <roycroft> not arguing with you does not mean i'm conceding on that point - i disagree with you completely, but i'm not going to pursue it as it would be out of the scope of this channel
[20:25:46] <CaptHindsight> it's anything goes Sunday
[20:26:15] <roycroft> does disdain for things that came from the government mean that we should reject the internet, capthindsight? :)
[20:26:45] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: interesting read. thanks
[20:26:50] <roycroft> ip networking - government
[20:26:51] <roycroft> dns - government
[20:26:54] <roycroft> smtp - government
[20:26:56] <roycroft> www - government
[20:26:57] <roycroft> :)
[20:27:08] <XXCoder> arpanet
[20:27:15] <tjtr33> arpanet government yay gopher
[20:27:21] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: I was referring the mainland China
[20:27:31] <roycroft> mainland china use the internet
[20:27:34] <CaptHindsight> the / to
[20:27:49] <roycroft> but that's ok
[20:27:52] <CaptHindsight> and their opposition to Linuxcnc
[20:28:02] <roycroft> the chinese do not have a monopoly on hypocracy
[20:28:14] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i always thought the objection was its free
[20:28:15] <XXCoder> I wish that was true roy
[20:28:26] <roycroft> as opposed to stolen?
[20:28:28] <tjtr33> and thats just too weird for CHinese biz man
[20:28:51] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: heh, I guess it's only worth copying if it's expensive
[20:28:55] <roycroft> "we can't use linuxcnc because we can't steal it from american capitalists"
[20:29:30] <XXCoder> chinalinuxcnc
[20:29:56] <CaptHindsight> CaptitalistCNC
[20:30:00] <roycroft> if it makes the chinese feel any better they can go back to calling it emc
[20:30:22] <roycroft> since there's a trademark issue there
[20:30:33] <roycroft> a trademark violation is almost as good as theft of intellectual proerty
[20:30:35] <roycroft> property
[20:30:47] <XXCoder> cemc or emcc heh
[20:31:26] * roycroft has an appointment with his welding gear that he needs to keep, and so ceases from further fanning any flames
[20:31:56] * XXCoder turns on kiln blower to increase heat
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[20:35:10] <tjtr33> welding... i wanna linuxcnc cnc a Multiplaz torch
[20:35:35] <tjtr33> cut weld braze solder... rule the world!
[20:38:09] <_methods> man i missed all that excitement
[20:38:25] -!- bobo_ [bobo_!63283ad9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.40.58.217] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:41:11] <XXCoder> wow http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_1228_the-24-most-satisfying-gifs-machines-in-action/
[20:41:21] <XXCoder> last one of that page
[20:44:13] <bobo_> CaptHindsight How hard is it now vers pre 9-11 to travel as a Tech person, and take along needed equipment ?
[20:45:55] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: it's harder overall but sometimes I go right through x-ray with positioners and a complete Linuxcnc controller without any questions...
[20:46:36] <CaptHindsight> other times they just want it out of the bag and in a tray, they don't even pull the covers to look inside
[20:47:00] <tjtr33> its much harder for me (USA) to repair machines in CA since 1990's. i dont think its 9-11 related, just protectionism. you cant carry hand tools on board, and packing them is expensive.
[20:47:11] <tjtr33> and airlines destroy scopes
[20:48:02] <CaptHindsight> I once carried on 70 lbs of cnc parts right through Laguardia. I thought the flight attendant was going to get a hernia moving my bag in the overhead
[20:48:41] <CaptHindsight> and other times my sons bag would be hand checked due to an energy bar in one of the pockets :)
[20:49:30] -!- meji3 [meji3!~meji3@pool-173-49-119-194.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:50:24] <tjtr33> haha bill murray... its only a baby ruth
[20:50:34] <CaptHindsight> and not for the PS2 and monitor with 4 hr play time battery in the other bag
[20:50:39] <CaptHindsight> heh
[20:51:04] <bobo_> CaptHindsight I have been told that a comp. can have personel go thru some Goverment thing --get background check -finger print -photo I.D. --etc . Resulting in less greef
[20:51:39] <tjtr33> true, special pass
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[20:52:47] <CaptHindsight> yeah, you can apply online
[20:53:32] <CaptHindsight> but I have a nephew that is in military intelligence with a red diplomatic passport that still gets screened at times
[20:53:47] <CaptHindsight> so it all depends on who you get that day
[20:53:51] <bobo_> how usefull is "special pass " outside of the US ?
[20:54:02] <CaptHindsight> it's not
[20:54:20] <CaptHindsight> it's just within or coming and going
[20:54:37] <tjtr33> not useful inside either, only at edges :)
[20:54:56] <CaptHindsight> all flights to the USA get a second bag inspection right at the gate
[20:55:03] <CaptHindsight> at least from Asia
[20:55:05] <bobo_> Glad I am not involved any more
[20:55:17] <CaptHindsight> i never bothered
[20:55:39] <tjtr33> bbl menards is calling
[20:55:41] <CaptHindsight> i still have a year left on my rfid free passport
[20:55:43] -!- tjtr33 [tjtr33!~tjtr33@73.22.99.22] has parted #linuxcnc
[20:57:55] <bobo_> I would think a rfid passport would not be a good thing
[20:59:07] -!- Miner_48er has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[20:59:16] <CaptHindsight> somebody got the contract, it was good for them
[21:02:10] -!- kwallace has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[21:02:56] <_methods> hehe
[21:03:28] <LeelooMinai> Is there anything alternative to AC spindle that could match it at milling aluminum on a hobby machine?
[21:03:53] <XXCoder> magic
[21:03:54] <XXCoder> jk
[21:05:18] <bobo_> CaptHindsight have you done very much busines traveling in europe?
[21:05:19] <XXCoder> how goes your table design
[21:05:57] <LeelooMinai> XXCoder: Savd some oney and ordered aluminum extrusions
[21:06:04] <LeelooMinai> For the table
[21:06:05] <XXCoder> nice
[21:06:39] <LeelooMinai> Now last thing is the spindle
[21:06:44] <_methods> freakin AC kickin on in january
[21:06:48] <_methods> that's classic
[21:09:02] <XXCoder> cant help on spidle heh - I just use trim router
[21:09:52] <LeelooMinai> I saw some BLDC motors used for small pllications, liek carving. That's pretty close to AC spindle, but without the need of VFD, but those motors are usually small.
[21:09:59] <LeelooMinai> applications*
[21:12:25] <LeelooMinai> Like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Powerful-400W-CNC-12000RPM-Brushless-Air-cooled-DC-Spindle-Motor-with-Driver-High-speed-Long-life/32251014873.html
[21:12:37] <LeelooMinai> But I don't really know what to think about them
[21:13:48] <XXCoder> 107 not bad
[21:14:17] -!- kwallace2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[21:14:25] <LeelooMinai> Yes, much cheaper that AC spindle with VFD, but I don't know if that would mill anything:)
[21:14:47] <XXCoder> no idea. techinically anything that rotates can mill but wheather its good...
[21:14:50] <MarkusBec> its crap
[21:15:01] <LeelooMinai> Probably has much worse runout too.
[21:15:03] <MarkusBec> only standard ball bearings
[21:15:38] <MarkusBec> thats a cheap chines dc servo motor with a collet adapter
[21:16:00] <MarkusBec> connected by 1 screw
[21:16:13] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: mostly Asia, especially China since it's the tech wild west
[21:17:42] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: Ok, so that would mean what?
[21:18:10] <LeelooMinai> I ,eam in practical sense
[21:18:15] <LeelooMinai> mean*
[21:18:59] <CaptHindsight> it means that it will work ok for a short time
[21:19:10] <Rab> I'd like to find a source for just the collet adapter, to make light engraving spindles from motors on hand...might not perform well enough to merit any trouble, though.
[21:19:33] <CaptHindsight> if you get a good one (not dropped, not full of dirt in the bearings etc)
[21:20:03] <MarkusBec> it will work for short time
[21:20:18] <MarkusBec> less than 100h i think in millig operation
[21:20:24] <LeelooMinai> Could not one open it and clean everything, grease or what it needs, or maybe even use better bearings?
[21:20:34] <CaptHindsight> the owber of Automation Technologies is from China, and he even has to travel back regularly to deal with QC problems
[21:20:37] <MarkusBec> and it has a terrible runout
[21:21:36] <LeelooMinai> Right, well, I cannot really afford non-Chinese spindle - they have scary prices.
[21:21:49] <_methods> well that solves it then
[21:21:53] <_methods> buy a chinese one
[21:22:10] <bobo_> CaptHindsight interesting about China . would have thunk Japan would be # one player in asia
[21:22:58] <MarkusBec> the 800W chines spindles are "ok"
[21:23:27] <MarkusBec> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/GDZ-26-1-ac-800w-water_60131617712.html?s=p
[21:23:59] <MarkusBec> they have a bearing pair with 2 bearings next to the collet
[21:24:31] <MarkusBec> and VFDs are cheap and you need no powersupply
[21:25:02] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: I have problem with VFD as this is in my room, so only 110V
[21:25:40] <LeelooMinai> Unless I do something weird, like using transformer to get to 220V
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[21:27:05] <MarkusBec> I think ther are 110V spindles available with 1 phase VFD
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[21:27:40] <LeelooMinai> I think they usually do not reach 400Hz
[21:28:15] <MarkusBec> hm ok
[21:28:44] <MarkusBec> we have 220V 1 phase and 400V 3 phase its easy :)
[21:29:37] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-2KW-AC110V-Variable-Frequency-Drive-VFD-for-CNC-Spindle-/121074203063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3095b9b7
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[21:29:54] <MarkusBec> 110V 60hz to 400hz
[21:31:01] <LeelooMinai> It has 110V output it seems
[21:31:28] <MarkusBec> 110V in
[21:31:33] <MarkusBec> 110V out
[21:31:43] <MarkusBec> 0-110V out
[21:31:47] <LeelooMinai> No specs - since it takes 3 phase input too, some of those specs may be only for 3 phases
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[21:32:09] <LeelooMinai> Yes, those AC spindles from China usually watn 220V
[21:32:40] <MarkusBec> yes but the seller of mine ask me if I want the 110V or 220V version
[21:32:44] <MarkusBec> of the spindle
[21:33:12] <LeelooMinai> What o you do with it?
[21:33:15] <LeelooMinai> do*
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[21:34:46] <furrywolf> I wish there was some way to vary the speed of my capacitor start motors...
[21:35:32] <MarkusBec> LeelooMinai: I use it on my portal mill
[21:35:42] <MarkusBec> cfk gfk AL
[21:35:43] <MarkusBec> etc
[21:36:02] <LeelooMinai> And 800watt is ok for alu?
[21:36:08] <MarkusBec> 2.2
[21:36:22] <LeelooMinai> A, ok
[21:36:25] <MarkusBec> Loetmichel: use the 800W on a pocket mill for AL
[21:37:04] <LeelooMinai> So for alu, what speeds are usually used?
[21:37:39] <XXCoder> 4k to 8k?
[21:37:50] <MarkusBec> " it depends"
[21:38:07] <XXCoder> yeah my router lower limit is 8k. I'd have to adjust ipm and such to it
[21:38:15] <MarkusBec> with VHM and small diameter
[21:38:28] <MarkusBec> the limitation is the max rpm of the spindle
[21:38:36] <LeelooMinai> I ask because I think it's possible to under power/voltage those 2.2kw spidnles, but then they will not get to high speeds, like close to 20krpm
[21:39:08] <MarkusBec> yes that is possible
[21:39:56] <MarkusBec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqh5umWFeVg
[21:39:59] <MarkusBec> hm foud
[21:40:06] <MarkusBec> found that
[21:40:56] <MarkusBec> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqh5umWFeVg
[21:41:05] <MarkusBec> hm 1,5kw 110V spindle
[21:41:20] <CaptHindsight> bobo_: they used to be, but they got too greedy and financially imploded in the 80's, setting a good example for the US to follow 20 years later
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[21:41:51] <LeelooMinai> MarkusBec: On that video it seems not working:)
[21:42:22] <MarkusBec> yes
[21:42:55] <LeelooMinai> They mention some magic codes though
[21:44:19] <furrywolf> if I burn out my motors, I'll probably replace them with 3ph and VFD... but as much as I'd like to vary the speed, keeping the capacitor start spindle motors is $0.
[21:49:01] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:50:08] <furrywolf> ok, I give up. is that supposed to be some way of abbreviating "goodnight" in a language where "8" is pronounced "ight"?
[21:50:40] <Jymmm> furrywolf: Yes, it's German. I asked him once.
[21:51:19] <furrywolf> that makes more sense, then. :)
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[21:57:42] <MarkusBec> gnihihi
[21:58:03] <MarkusBec> gute nacht :)
[21:58:24] <MarkusBec> 8 => acht
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[22:48:12] <somenewguy> I have an old P4 box that I pulled from teh trash cause it has the identical case to my current main pc and I needed some fan mounts, but it is still complete and a nice spacy case
[22:48:38] <somenewguy> a quick look in the land of jitter tests says my combo is likely fine for linuxcnc, but when I try to boot it my screen is black and no beeps
[22:48:59] <somenewguy> of course I stole the graphics card out of it, which is installed in my real linuxcnc machine lol, and the card i have in it now is some rando I had in a box, no clue if it works
[22:49:17] <somenewguy> anyone know if a motherboard should ALWAYS beep on powerup?
[22:49:30] <XXCoder> POST beep I'd say
[22:49:35] <XXCoder> being deaf I cant be certain
[22:49:58] <XXCoder> if more than one, ie 3 beeps or certain pattern beeps uts some kind of POST error
[22:50:16] <somenewguy> hehe ok, I am getting 0 beeps and wondering just how dead it may be, digging into the mobo manual now
[22:50:31] <somenewguy> its of the same vintage of my linuxcnc box, but that thing needs to be replaced, and didn't have room for all the boards I added
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[22:51:06] <furrywolf> check for exploded caps on both the motherboard and power supply
[22:51:11] <furrywolf> also try another power supply
[22:51:18] <furrywolf> check to make sure cpu and ram are present and properly seated
[22:51:21] <XXCoder> caps cap off
[22:51:27] <furrywolf> check to make sure the beeper is connected, if in the case. :)
[22:51:30] <somenewguy> they are, fans spin up, and the vdrom sems to as well
[22:51:41] <somenewguy> beeper, funny one, thats what I was looking at now
[22:51:46] <somenewguy> my whole life I thought they were built into the mobo
[22:52:09] <somenewguy> untill I cleaned out my current pc and suddenly I had POST beeps, guesss I never installed the header right until dusting accidently seated it lol
[22:52:18] <XXCoder> heh I used to use led wired to beeper
[22:52:27] <XXCoder> so I could see post errors
[22:52:39] <XXCoder> lost it ages ago
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[22:55:34] <somenewguy> hehe the mobo has an LED that only shows you if the psu is powered
[22:55:41] <somenewguy> to stop you from hotswapping ram and stuff
[22:56:11] <XXCoder> it does but if I recall it does not flash in pattern with any error
[22:56:21] <somenewguy> no, just power/nopower
[22:56:40] <somenewguy> I totally hotswapped an IDE HDD several years ago by accident
[22:56:55] <somenewguy> was late, forgot what stage of ON the machine was in, and pulled it and heard a sound change...
[22:56:56] <XXCoder> I made custom wire that uses speaker connector with led attchec to it
[22:57:15] <XXCoder> so when it tries to beep it will flash light
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[22:58:14] <furrywolf> try new power supply, new cpu, new ram... but checked closely for bad caps first. any cap whose top is not perfectly flat is bad, or has any sign of leakage.
[22:59:05] <somenewguy> they seemed fine, but I'll take another look, I hope the mobo is healthy
[22:59:20] <somenewguy> most modern thing in my collection of junk, and I need to retire my current cnc box
[22:59:35] <somenewguy> oooh cool this one has a built in analog game port!
[23:00:22] <somenewguy> ....
[23:00:41] <somenewguy> been idling open on floor aobut 10 minutes while I waited to see if it turned up on the LAN
[23:00:53] <somenewguy> just powered down and poked the board, some of those components are HOT
[23:00:59] <somenewguy> I suspect its toast
[23:01:21] <somenewguy> like some of the caps are ~40c, that can't be right can it?
[23:01:52] <furrywolf> hot caps means bad caps or bad power supply caps... or both.
[23:02:20] <furrywolf> well, or severely overvoltaged, in which case every single thing in the box is toast...
[23:03:40] <somenewguy> yeah these are the big electrolytics near what look like power components
[23:03:49] <somenewguy> so methinks is kaput
[23:04:03] <furrywolf> try a new power supply
[23:04:24] <somenewguy> will do
[23:04:40] <somenewguy> maybe no I can at least throw away one of the P2s I've been saving for thier parallel ports aka I will never use
[23:05:05] <XXCoder> dead ps2?
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[23:07:49] <XXCoder> wow quiet suddenly
[23:09:49] <somenewguy> no no, throw away perfectly working pentium IIs
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[23:10:05] <somenewguy> I have a couple that I have had sitting around since ohhhh college I guess
[23:10:14] <somenewguy> I collected them when I thought I needed a working parallel port for a project
[23:10:15] <XXCoder> lol thought ya meant playstation2
[23:10:30] <somenewguy> ARGH non standard psu in that one, next victim
[23:10:49] <XXCoder> lol
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[23:13:28] <_methods> http://www.msi.com/news/1885.html
[23:13:31] <_methods> oops
[23:13:35] <_methods> wrong room
[23:14:52] <furrywolf> take the power supply apart and see how exploded its caps are.
[23:20:48] <somenewguy> jesus christ what even is a PII
[23:20:59] <furrywolf> ?
[23:21:00] <somenewguy> can't rememver when the last time i looked in one of thtese was, but bizzare
[23:21:04] <somenewguy> the heatsink etc
[23:21:07] <somenewguy> slot mounted cpu
[23:21:10] <somenewguy> forgot that was a thing
[23:21:53] <furrywolf> lol
[23:22:22] <somenewguy> The PII is giving up its supply for the cause
[23:23:36] MattyMatt__ is now known as MattyMatt
[23:25:21] <somenewguy> good night sweet prince
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[23:40:19] <XXCoder> somenewguy: heh I remember those. monstosity of pu
[23:40:34] <XXCoder> glad they stopped using the slot mount type
[23:41:03] <somenewguy> on the bright side, I now have like 100cm2 of heatsink in my parts bin
[23:41:17] <XXCoder> you ever melt alum into blocks?
[23:41:28] <somenewguy> no but I melted it into a banana once
[23:41:52] <XXCoder> mechamonkey wpould love it
[23:42:25] <somenewguy> haha yeap!
[23:42:41] <somenewguy> me and abuddy made a charcoal fired furnace once, melted down some VW parts and made some emblems and a banana
[23:43:14] <XXCoder> I do want to try it but around here it might not be good idea
[23:43:22] <XXCoder> I probably will do electric type
[23:43:29] <XXCoder> use some oven stuff
[23:43:54] <XXCoder> and flower pots
[23:44:17] <somenewguy> we used a 5ish gal steel pail, lined with cermaic wool
[23:44:42] <somenewguy> shopvac on a variac for the blower, and a flower pot crucible
[23:44:56] <XXCoder> I may use flame bricks and some of that cermic stuff that dont melt
[23:44:58] <somenewguy> we upgraded to a steel crucible since it got hot slow enough to not melt the crucible
[23:45:21] <somenewguy> I welded a steel plate to one end of a 2.1 cylinder, as it was the perfect size cruicible for the size of our furnace
[23:45:28] <somenewguy> couldnt' find a good sized ceramic, all too small or too big
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[23:45:57] <XXCoder> cool. still havent figured the crucible part yet lol
[23:46:00] <somenewguy> cermaic wool worked great, but I suggest you make your furnace nice and big
[23:46:26] <somenewguy> a heavy steel item makes a decent crucible for a while, and the color of it will tell you about the temp in the oven
[23:46:35] <XXCoder> or just get regular kiln. its cheap if right timing and while it takes hours its very big and can hold lot.
[23:46:39] <somenewguy> but if you get it burning really hot, well, you won't have a cruible anymore
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[23:47:03] <somenewguy> but the steel is so much more forgiving than a ceramic one, but a flower pot actually lasted a really long time, we shattered it with the tongs eventually, and it only held like half a pound of alu
[23:47:32] <somenewguy> do like the brick oven guys do, and just build some refactory bricks into a hill side/mound of dirt
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[23:47:56] <somenewguy> when I was really into it I was about 3 months away from building one that burned waste oil
[23:48:01] <XXCoder> that I cannot do, rent land lol
[23:48:09] <somenewguy> but interest petered out a nd we stopped at charcoal
[23:49:37] <XXCoder> cool. im still unsure if I should even start lol
[23:49:49] <somenewguy> it is really fun
[23:49:53] <XXCoder> I still have serious problems with movivation
[23:49:59] <somenewguy> I wish I stilll had the furnace
[23:50:02] <somenewguy> lol i konw the feeling
[23:50:17] <somenewguy> I pulled the engine out of my car yesterday and really need to go seal it and reinstall, yet here I am building computers
[23:50:41] <XXCoder> lack of focus and "just get butt off" problems is bit different
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[23:52:03] <XXCoder> im not sure why I cant do stuff
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