#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-13

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[00:11:14] <PCW> LinuxCNC can interface with step/dir, pwm/dir, analog +-10, and EtherCAT connected servo drives
[00:11:39] <PCW> (there may be some other ways I have forgotten)
[00:12:13] <renesis> ethercat sounds neat
[00:12:14] <taiden> it seems like the gecko is step/dir and the driver is responsible for keeping things aligned with the encoder
[00:14:42] <taiden> so how does teh math work for figuring out motor rpm with the gecko 320
[00:14:52] <PCW> to some extent almost all drives have some local feedback (typically linuxcnc runs velocity mode servo drives so the drive itself closes the velocity loop)
[00:14:54] <taiden> do we still use software stepping?
[00:15:30] <PCW> LInuxCNC can use software or hardware stepping
[00:15:52] <PCW> step generation would be a better word
[00:16:39] <taiden> eah
[00:16:40] <taiden> yeah
[00:16:59] <taiden> so i'm quite familiar with calculating motor rpm with stepper motors and drives
[00:17:10] <taiden> how is it done with servo motors?
[00:18:01] <PCW> Not quite sure what you mean
[00:18:12] <taiden> is it one step per encoder slice?
[00:18:33] <PCW> it might be...
[00:19:08] <PCW> fancier drives allow steps/rev to be programmable
[00:19:29] <taiden> OK it seems these encoders are variable
[00:19:47] <taiden> and by that i mean you can set with dip switches how many slices per rev
[00:19:55] <taiden> "16 dip switch programmable resolutions incremental output resolutions 48, 96, 100, 125, 192, 200, 250, 256, 384, 400, 500, 512, 800, 1000, 1024, 2048 - See more at: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-m-dc-servo-motor/cui-amt102-v-kit-encoder#sthash.6dwWXBY0.dpuf"
[00:20:34] <PCW> usually the encoders (on high end drives) are not variable but the interface processor can scale the step/dir inputs
[00:21:00] <taiden> so if linuxcnc will happily produce 5000 pulse/sec and you have this setup to 500 "resolution" i suspect you'd end up with 10 revs/sec
[00:21:08] <taiden> does that seem reasonable?
[00:21:24] <PCW> yep
[00:21:44] <taiden> i can see why people like these things
[00:22:04] <taiden> i can't find a torque graph for this motor. any thoughts on small servo performance?
[00:22:22] <taiden> are these things linear like stepper motors until a certain rpm and then drop off?
[00:22:47] <taiden> trying to understand how it find optimal rpm range for full load
[00:23:04] <PCW> servo are typically used either where better than step motor performance is needed or for sizes larger than a few hundred watts
[00:23:33] <taiden> well i have a small machine but i'm trying to get really high feed rates for contouring
[00:23:41] <taiden> ball nose mill contouring
[00:23:45] <taiden> like 1000 ipm
[00:23:58] <PCW> typically servo motors have much flatter torque curves than step motors
[00:24:00] <taiden> i'm using 10mm lead ballscrews on the x and y and 5mm ballscrew on the z
[00:24:27] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I would like to use one of the stepper channels on 7i76 for driver enable, like this: http://i.imgur.com/GvePApg.png
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[00:24:55] <LeelooMinai> Cannot see how to do that though - there's some custom option in the drop-down, but it's unselectable
[00:25:34] <LeelooMinai> It's called "Custom Signals" - seems like maybe what I would want, but does not work
[00:25:42] <PCW> not sure pncconf can do it but you can add it to the hal file pncconf creates
[00:26:04] <LeelooMinai> A, I see, ok then, will live it out for now
[00:26:20] <LeelooMinai> I want only to generate some initial file to go from
[00:26:31] <LeelooMinai> leave*
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[00:27:01] <taiden> this servo motor has peak no load rpm at 4200 rpm. is there a rule of thumb for what rpm range it produces max torque? like 70% of no load
[00:27:34] <LeelooMinai> Some can have almost the same torque for all speeds
[00:28:13] <taiden> at no load rpm it is producing just enough torque to overcome frictional losses :(
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[00:28:32] <LeelooMinai> I saw one like this on gov sale yesterday - but it may be some unusual tech as it seemed to have strange construction using a disk with some copper parts in it and big magnets
[00:28:38] <PCW> actually it looks like you can get pncconf to do at least part of assigning the GPIO pins
[00:29:20] <PCW> (disable a step drive channel and then assign the newly freed pin on he P3 tab)
[00:29:43] <LeelooMinai> https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?snc=wfsav&sc=ach-shop&vndsld=1&srchtype=&lci=&sr=1&str=1&ltnf=1&lcn=320505&lct=L&sf=ferm-clos
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[00:30:09] <LeelooMinai> PCW: O, ok, will try that
[00:30:35] <LeelooMinai> I almost bid on it, but the postage would be $30, so I decided not to get crazy:)
[00:31:30] <PCW> Thats a so called "printed motor" with a PCB as the rotor
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[00:32:10] <LeelooMinai> PCW, by "disabled" you mean what - I tried to set them from 5 to 3, but, hmm, I don't see a change
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[00:32:42] <LeelooMinai> O, now I see - I had to accept
[00:32:53] <PCW> yeah iI just tried setting it to 4 and freed two GPIO pins
[00:33:22] <LeelooMinai> They seem to be generic though - not sure if softweare will use them as driver on/off
[00:33:35] <PCW> you can then set them to outputs and connect to some appropriate signal
[00:34:14] <LeelooMinai> BUt not in this wizzard?
[00:35:11] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I don't even see anything for Diver off/on in menus
[00:35:22] <PCW> sure I just connected it to "Machine is enabled"
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[00:38:30] <PCW> maybe axis.0.amp-enable-out is appropriate
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[00:43:45] <LeelooMinai> O, wonderful, now I have too old RTAI kernel
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[00:44:13] <LeelooMinai> I knew upgrading to 2.6 cannot be that easy:)
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[00:45:19] <PCW> probably easier to just dl the Debian wheezy ISO
[00:45:28] <PCW> and re-install
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[00:46:31] <LeelooMinai> Sounds drastic
[00:47:07] <LeelooMinai> Never really used debian
[00:47:24] <LeelooMinai> Is wheezy some ancient distribution?
[00:47:38] <PCW> its the current Debian dist
[00:48:01] <LeelooMinai> But doesn't it in the Debian world mean "2 years old"? :)
[00:48:37] <PCW> Jessie is the next (not released yet)
[00:48:40] <LeelooMinai> "Debian 7.7 was released October 18th, 2014. Debian 7.0 was initially released on May 4th, 2013."
[00:48:54] <LeelooMinai> SO that 7.7 would work with linuxcnc?
[00:49:59] <PCW> yes (though easier to just install the ISO)
[00:50:21] <LeelooMinai> You mean some linuxcnc iso?
[00:50:51] <LeelooMinai> I also assume I need 32-bit, 64-bit will not work, right?
[00:50:55] <PCW> yes, it already has the right kernel and linuccnc installed
[00:51:35] <PCW> I think 64 bit will work but its more bleeding edge
[00:51:53] <LeelooMinai> 10.04 Lucid Lynx/LinuxCNC v2.5 (current), <- you mean this... It's ancient
[00:52:56] <skunkworks_> there is a wheezy iso with rtai and the latest linuxcnc
[00:53:12] <LeelooMinai> O, ok
[00:53:41] <skunkworks_> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[00:53:42] <skunkworks_> top one
[00:54:36] <LeelooMinai> Ok, thx - not sure how this will end, but will try:)
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[02:16:29] <taiden> what are some typical step frequencies for software step generation?
[02:16:43] <taiden> i seem to remember having 33k or more on my old atom board
[02:17:07] <taiden> which latency tested at about 10k
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[02:24:33] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15768927021/
[02:24:50] <zeeshan> http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/item/17/371/17-371-045/2.jpg
[02:24:54] <zeeshan> i gtotta mount a supply like that
[02:24:56] <zeeshan> whats the best way?
[02:25:22] <LeelooMinai> Mount where?
[02:25:27] <zeeshan> inside the case
[02:25:37] <zeeshan> i need the power plug facing someone inside the case
[02:25:46] <zeeshan> so i can sent it to power distribution
[02:25:59] <LeelooMinai> You will be inside the case? :)
[02:26:09] <zeeshan> what do you mean
[02:26:27] <zeeshan> see the thing with these atx power supplys
[02:26:34] <LeelooMinai> You wrote "someone inside the case"
[02:26:35] <zeeshan> the mounting screws plane
[02:26:44] <zeeshan> is where also the air intake and power switch is
[02:26:53] <zeeshan> and it is also where the power cord hooks up
[02:27:05] <zeeshan> so its almost like i need to modify the power supply
[02:27:12] <zeeshan> so i can mount it differently
[02:27:16] <zeeshan> or make an L bracket
[02:27:29] <zeeshan> seems like a lotta work :P
[02:27:54] <zeeshan> i answered my question lol
[02:28:04] <zeeshan> L brackets
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[02:31:39] <Jymmm> zeeshan: Q bracket
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[02:55:40] <XXCoder> zeeshan: check this out
[02:55:41] <XXCoder> https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big/teen-invents-flashlight-could-change-world-182121097.html
[02:55:48] <XXCoder> simple idea but amazing
[02:57:26] <zeeshan> nice
[02:57:27] <zeeshan> :D
[02:57:37] <XXCoder> yeah
[02:57:55] <XXCoder> imange this - flashlight that always works. I need few of em and one for car too
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[02:59:05] <LeelooMinai> Not very bright
[02:59:10] <LeelooMinai> The flashlight, that is:)
[02:59:21] <zeeshan> you guys know of a crazy powerful flashlight?
[02:59:25] <XXCoder> yeah its generation zero
[02:59:27] <zeeshan> Jymmm posted a 750 lumen one
[02:59:32] <XXCoder> there will be better ones.
[02:59:34] <zeeshan> anything stronger and compact? :D
[02:59:37] <XXCoder> zee how about 10,000 lumens
[02:59:46] <zeeshan> depends on the price
[02:59:49] <zeeshan> i dont wanna spend more than 30 bux
[03:00:01] <zeeshan> i need two
[03:00:04] <zeeshan> one for garage and car
[03:00:12] <zeeshan> my maglite is a pos
[03:00:35] <zeeshan> its a little "lite" on the light
[03:00:36] <zeeshan> :P
[03:00:42] <LeelooMinai> THere's tons of flashlights on ali: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2000-Lumens-CREE-XM-L-XML-T6-LED-Headlamp-Headlight-Flashlight-Head-Lamp-Light-2-18650/1716536409.html
[03:00:44] <XXCoder> lite lite lol
[03:00:58] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: handheld
[03:01:01] <zeeshan> 2000 lumen would be nice
[03:01:03] <zeeshan> thats the power of the sun!
[03:01:14] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Eh, not a big deal
[03:01:20] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You think that would be bright enough for you? :) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/18000-Lumens-15-x-CREE-XM-L2-LED-5-Light-Modes-Waterproof-Super-Bright-Flashlight-Torch/1850327678.html
[03:01:32] <renesis> cree = the good shit
[03:01:35] <zeeshan> now that is COOL
[03:01:50] <zeeshan> 1200 m distance
[03:01:50] <zeeshan> LOL
[03:01:53] <zeeshan> thats more like a laser
[03:01:55] <XXCoder> dammit cant find that custom flashlight
[03:02:02] <XXCoder> it turns night park to daylight
[03:02:04] <zeeshan> i like the design
[03:02:10] <LeelooMinai> Just be careful so your neighbours don't get up at 4am and go to work thinking it's already the morning\
[03:02:14] <zeeshan> ribbed for pleasure!
[03:02:31] <XXCoder> light ribbed lol
[03:02:44] <Jymmm> 18K lumen, battery life 90 seconds
[03:03:06] <Jymmm> but realisticlly 20 minutes
[03:03:19] <XXCoder> zeeshan: thing about powerful flashlights
[03:03:20] <zeeshan> okay that sux
[03:03:21] <zeeshan> lol
[03:03:22] <XXCoder> battery drainer
[03:03:29] <zeeshan> yea thats unacceptable
[03:03:31] <LeelooMinai> You don't need more than 5 secods - whoever you shine it onto will be blind by then
[03:03:34] <zeeshan> so if in interpolate
[03:03:41] <zeeshan> a 2000 lumen will last a lot longer
[03:03:41] <renesis> single 300mA cree light should last awhile
[03:03:41] <zeeshan> :D
[03:03:41] <XXCoder> I has one of first led flashlights, it lasts weeks on
[03:03:51] <XXCoder> weeks ON not standby
[03:03:52] <Jymmm> renesis: Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[03:03:58] <renesis> what?
[03:04:07] <Jymmm> 300mA
[03:04:19] <LeelooMinai> O, nice, seems like that debian iso works
[03:04:21] <Jymmm> my signle 5mm led does 20mA
[03:04:21] <renesis> this is a decent amount of light
[03:04:32] <Jymmm> Yeah, noooooooooooooooooo
[03:04:33] <renesis> ?
[03:04:38] <LeelooMinai> At least up to the configuration stage
[03:04:55] <renesis> what does 20mA indicator LED and 300mA cree LED have to do with each other
[03:05:06] <Jymmm> renesis: cra for light
[03:05:08] <Jymmm> crap
[03:05:25] <renesis> 300mA is a decent small light
[03:05:33] <renesis> 20mA is a panel indicator
[03:05:53] <Jymmm> I'm not lighting a panel
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[03:06:01] <renesis> well 20MA isnt gonna work out
[03:06:06] <renesis> mA
[03:06:09] <renesis> MA prob work fine
[03:06:51] <Jymmm> No, it won't really. Not for all praticle purpose of carrying a flashlight
[03:06:56] <renesis> anyway, decent LED flashlights, 300mA cree is prob gonna be low end of effective
[03:07:00] <Jymmm> maybe a keychain light
[03:07:09] <renesis> way better than a keychain light
[03:07:20] <renesis> def enough for fucking around an engine at night
[03:07:27] <renesis> not enough to light up a field
[03:07:40] <renesis> enough to usably light up a room for getting around
[03:07:43] <Jymmm> I how those, I never use them anymore, not enough light to even look down an engine compartment 2 ft
[03:07:51] <XXCoder> renesis: yeah thats why I love my old led flashlight. I have better 200 lumens flashlights but I will never throw away my old one.
[03:07:53] <zeeshan> lol
[03:07:53] <zeeshan> now i know 100% you havent worked on a car
[03:08:07] <renesis> i have a single cree light somewhere
[03:08:10] <renesis> used the shit out of it
[03:08:16] <renesis> fist size, fit anywhere
[03:08:19] <XXCoder> engine probably too weak but then I has other ones lol
[03:08:47] <Jymmm> hell, just try to find something you dropped on the floor you need a good light
[03:08:51] <renesis> zeeshan: for someone who complains about people making assumptions, you make a fuck ton of assumptions
[03:09:15] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, any idea what's going on there? http://i.imgur.com/pTAzqZX.png
[03:09:22] <LeelooMinai> It's from that debian iso
[03:09:24] <Jymmm> renesis: Just quit being a gorl with your cutsy flashlight!
[03:09:33] <Jymmm> girl
[03:09:43] <LeelooMinai> Maybe some encoding issues?
[03:09:55] <renesis> flashlight that fits is sometimes mor ehelpful than a brighter one that doesnt
[03:10:24] <XXCoder> one in hand is better than powerful one at home and miles away too lol
[03:10:26] <Jymmm> Yeah, lets' grab our pitchforks and light our torches too
[03:10:26] <renesis> and def more helpful than a dead one
[03:10:32] <renesis> because way more light than you needed
[03:11:46] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you want a flashlight?
[03:12:00] <zeeshan> i do jymm
[03:12:02] <zeeshan> two em
[03:12:07] <zeeshan> i liked the one you posted before
[03:12:09] <zeeshan> the 750 lumen one
[03:12:20] <zeeshan> i didnt get a reply from you to figure out if you used it or not
[03:12:30] <XXCoder> zeeshan: what use would it be for?
[03:12:33] <Jymmm> zeeshan: I own it
[03:12:46] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I think it's time to just learn to edit all those configuration files by hand... Those wizards do weird things:/
[03:12:56] <Jymmm> XXCoder: https://www.fasttech.com/p/1212404
[03:13:20] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you can lockotut the flash and strobe too
[03:13:37] <zeeshan> XXCoder: one is for emergency
[03:13:40] <zeeshan> and one for garage
[03:13:41] <zeeshan> daily use
[03:13:52] <renesis> also lumens are easy to cheat with narrow focus
[03:14:11] <renesis> this is basically how LED are marketed on ebay, heh
[03:14:15] <LeelooMinai> You mean lux:)
[03:14:39] <LeelooMinai> Because lumens are supposed to be total light emited
[03:14:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You can drive on the freeway with it.
[03:14:47] <XXCoder> zeeshan: with light on or off?
[03:14:51] <LeelooMinai> So no much room for cheating there
[03:15:03] <XXCoder> yeah not how lumens units work
[03:15:08] <XXCoder> its very nice
[03:15:08] <renesis> lux is light per area, no?
[03:15:16] <LeelooMinai> Yes, lux is per area
[03:15:19] <skunkworks_> LeelooMinai: can you try a different pci slot?
[03:15:20] <zeeshan> lol renesis
[03:15:23] <zeeshan> once again so wrong
[03:15:29] <zeeshan> doesnt know the different between flux
[03:15:37] <renesis> zee youre wrong at electronics like daily
[03:15:43] <renesis> i knew the diff i just said so
[03:15:56] <renesis> you know regardless of intelligence, youre an ass
[03:16:00] <LeelooMinai> skunkworks_: I think it was just wrong config generated. I will just learn to edit them by hand.
[03:16:07] <zeeshan> lol okay
[03:16:09] <zeeshan> =D
[03:16:16] <renesis> lol okay what, its pretty clear man
[03:16:16] <zeeshan> at least im an intelligent ass
[03:16:18] <zeeshan> unlike you
[03:16:29] <renesis> okay im an idiot
[03:16:31] <XXCoder> you guys are both ass. right next to each other creeks
[03:16:33] <renesis> if that makes you happy
[03:16:37] <zeeshan> XXCoder: :D
[03:16:43] <renesis> you suck at electronics though
[03:16:44] <LeelooMinai> IN fact, in some countries they require the light-bulb manufacturers to put lumen figure on the box, so they cannot "cheat"
[03:16:57] <skunkworks_> LeelooMinai: http://linuxcnc.org/lucid/index.php/italian/forum/10-advanced-configuration/19791-hm2-5i20-errorlog?start=6#19802
[03:17:14] <XXCoder> LeelooMinai: yeah I refuse to buy boxes with no lumens
[03:17:33] <XXCoder> my room is currently nicely 1200 lumen each bulb
[03:17:34] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Do you already have any 18650 batteries?
[03:17:49] <renesis> yeah no response for the suck at basic electronics thing
[03:17:58] <XXCoder> I will evenually buy 1600 lumen ones when led tech gets better and it gets below 10w usage each
[03:17:58] <renesis> because you know its true =)
[03:18:16] <zeeshan> i know v = ir
[03:18:17] <Jymmm> renesis: quit being a childish prick with the name calling please.
[03:18:18] <XXCoder> right now 100w evaluant (1600lumen) is at hmm 18w?
[03:18:25] <renesis> jymmm: i dont call name
[03:18:30] <renesis> jymmm: as a rule, zee does
[03:18:38] <renesis> jymmm: i just bring up things that happen
[03:18:44] <Jymmm> renesis: just stop
[03:18:51] <LeelooMinai> skunkworks_: Hmm, interesting - I guess I will try to "reseat" the card:)
[03:18:57] <renesis> ask him to, i only do this when he calls names
[03:18:57] <XXCoder> tat for tat is fun :P
[03:18:58] <zeeshan> Jymmm: the reason i am calling him names and being mean to him in general is
[03:19:06] <zeeshan> cause he followed me into this channel cause he saw a screenshot of mine in another channel
[03:19:09] <renesis> um
[03:19:12] <zeeshan> where i had him on ignore
[03:19:13] <Jymmm> EVERYONE, just stop.
[03:19:16] <renesis> dude check logs from like 2006
[03:19:26] <zeeshan> back on ignore
[03:19:27] <zeeshan> :D
[03:19:27] <renesis> and on and off since
[03:19:38] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+o Jymmm] by ChanServ
[03:20:20] <CaptHindsight> Don't make me come in there!
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[03:20:25] <Jymmm> Now, do I have to put you two in the corner or to bed with no dinner?
[03:20:32] <Jymmm> what he said
[03:20:47] <zeeshan> Jymmm: flexing your power :D
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[03:21:58] <renesis> if you want to enforce no name calling im down, i did it once when it was obvious, and he does it constantly
[03:23:01] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [+q renesis!*@*] by Jymmm
[03:23:06] <XXCoder> jeez http://www.aliexpress.com/item/YAOMING-t6-18000-lumens-YAOMING-torch-cree-t6-xml-torches-flash-player-baixar-led-flashlight/1981107610.html
[03:23:32] <XXCoder> it says 18000 lumens on item name but lumens listed is 1800
[03:23:33] <zeeshan> wow thats gorgeous
[03:23:42] <zeeshan> typo?
[03:23:49] <XXCoder> still 200 more than 100w bulb lol
[03:24:04] <XXCoder> hella bright and directed forward and not everywhere
[03:24:22] <CaptHindsight> white
[03:24:28] <XXCoder> if 1800 one is typo then its riciously powerful than 100w
[03:25:14] <Jymmm> 600 lumens here http://www.myefox.es/ym-t6g-2-1-x-cree-xm-l-t6-600-l-uacute-menes-linterna-sin-la-bater-iacute-a-p-1222144
[03:25:26] <XXCoder> 2000 lumen http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Airmail-Free-CrazyFire-High-Power-LED-Lanterna-Flashlight-18000-Lumens-15x-CREE-XM-L-T6-18650/2013632870.html
[03:25:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/light/how-lumen-to-watt.htm have to guess since they don't list the part numbers or efficiency
[03:25:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: more lumens = shorter battery life
[03:25:55] <XXCoder> still says 18000 lumens in name for item though. strange
[03:26:05] <Jymmm> XXCoder: typo
[03:26:10] <Jymmm> happens all the time
[03:26:14] <XXCoder> makes it hard to find actual 18,000 lumen
[03:26:33] -!- mode/#linuxcnc [-q renesis!*@*] by Jymmm
[03:26:48] <renesis> or a more efficient LED
[03:27:32] <Jymmm> XXCoder: is that all you want? A portable sun?
[03:27:36] <XXCoder> best lumens wise (probably suck batteries like vampire) http://www.aliexpress.com/item/18000-Lumens-15-x-CREE-XM-L2-LED-5-Light-Modes-Waterproof-Super-Bright-Flashlight-Torch/2004421918.html
[03:27:51] <XXCoder> seriously though lumens for what you need not portable sun LOL
[03:28:18] <XXCoder> largest I ever seen was I think 10,000 or 100,000 but that was one hack that used way too flipping many leds
[03:28:25] <zeeshan> gonna order the one jymmm has
[03:28:57] <XXCoder> one you linked to bit ago? it does look decent
[03:28:59] <zeeshan> 750 lumen should be plenty
[03:29:05] <zeeshan> Jymmm posted the link
[03:29:14] <zeeshan> brtb]
[03:29:34] <Jymmm> https://www.fasttech.com/p/1212404
[03:29:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-High-Power-100W-LED-Chip-9000LM-10000LM-2pcs-lot-white-Warm-white-for-LED/1476563187.html here's an actual 100W white LED array specd at 8000-9000 lumens
[03:29:43] <XXCoder> oh lee did
[03:29:44] <roycroft> i have some of these: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Energizerreg-High-Intensity-LED-Flashlight/1327152.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dled%2Bflashlight%26x%3D0%26y%3D0&Ntt=led+flashlight&WTz_l=Unknown
[03:29:54] <roycroft> they're nice for general use, and take standard aa batteries
[03:29:57] <XXCoder> crazy.
[03:29:58] <renesis> capthindsight: ha nuts
[03:30:00] <Valen> I want some stupid bright red LED's
[03:30:02] <Valen> like 100W
[03:30:09] <renesis> kevtris made some sort of flashlight out of one of those
[03:30:12] <Valen> any suggestions for reptutible suppliers that are cheap
[03:30:20] <roycroft> i rarely have a need for something brighter than that
[03:31:08] <XXCoder> hjeez finally found it!!
[03:31:09] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62NP5GThFo0
[03:31:22] <XXCoder> oh wrong one
[03:31:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ledwv.com/en/120w-led-power-p-795.html 120W white LED 12000~13000lm
[03:31:53] <Valen> this is one we made http://imgur.com/a/sxZfd
[03:31:57] <renesis> he made an HPS flashlight?
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[03:32:44] <renesis> i wonder why he only did 300W
[03:32:49] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: wire with big backend battery http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/100000-lumen-led.html
[03:33:02] <XXCoder> 100,000 lumens
[03:33:14] <XXCoder> just might be suffecent for zeeshan ;)
[03:33:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ledwv.com/en/led-500w-p-701.html white 500W 47000-50000LM
[03:33:36] <renesis> meanwell makes LED drivers?
[03:34:15] <renesis> noice
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[03:34:36] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: yes, they just start mounting multiple arrays to get to higher power
[03:34:59] <XXCoder> capt did you see link I posted at beginning?
[03:35:09] <XXCoder> not very strong but will work forever basically
[03:35:21] <CaptHindsight> don't think so
[03:35:29] <XXCoder> its solid state so it will never break basically too
[03:35:39] <XXCoder> https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big/teen-invents-flashlight-could-change-world-182121097.html
[03:35:41] <CaptHindsight> I came in during ruckus
[03:35:47] <CaptHindsight> +the
[03:36:10] <XXCoder> I guess from video it's around 50 to 100 lumens
[03:38:23] <XXCoder> oh it says 24 lumens
[03:38:49] <CaptHindsight> not very efficient
[03:39:02] <XXCoder> well techinically youre already wasting body heat
[03:39:23] <XXCoder> so its 100% effecient anyway. it just needs better power harvesting and designj
[03:39:36] <XXCoder> once it reaches 100 lumens its enough for dark places
[03:39:41] <CaptHindsight> they should made into tinfoil hats
[03:39:49] <CaptHindsight> multipurpose
[03:40:03] <XXCoder> not too sure where youre going
[03:40:04] <renesis> single cree xm is >200
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[03:41:04] <XXCoder> heh my old led flashlight (one of first led flashlights in market!) is around 50 lumens
[03:41:12] <CaptHindsight> a peltier needs a delta from one side to the other
[03:41:13] <XXCoder> it worked wonderfully
[03:41:26] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: it has alum inside for cool side
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[03:41:34] <XXCoder> alum then air
[03:41:55] <XXCoder> makes me wonder if it can be designed to refract heat out hole and not to other side pipe
[03:41:59] <CaptHindsight> so head heat --> peltier --> tinfoil hat --> room ambient air
[03:42:02] <XXCoder> even cooler
[03:42:21] <renesis> wouldnt it be taking the heat and putting it on the battery
[03:42:34] <XXCoder> renesis: it has no battery
[03:42:43] <XXCoder> its the whole reason she won google invent prize
[03:42:51] <renesis> when did we stop talking about flashlights
[03:42:52] <XXCoder> it's major reolutionary idea
[03:43:11] <zeeshan> XXCoder: did you know
[03:43:19] <zeeshan> at rest, a human body releases 60W of energy
[03:43:22] <zeeshan> through just radiation lol
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[03:43:45] <XXCoder> well yes. thats how it works after all. lol
[03:43:49] <zeeshan> :D
[03:44:01] <zeeshan> i was fascinated when i first did the sample problem in the heat transfer book
[03:44:16] <zeeshan> another 60W is lost through natural convection
[03:44:19] <renesis> Art Makosinski remembers his surprise when Ann figured out how to light the flashlights bulbs at 20 millivolts
[03:44:25] <zeeshan> assuming 20-25C room temp
[03:44:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ledwv.com/en/led-1w-p-84.html 1w white LED ~100Lumens
[03:44:45] <zeeshan> you know what i hate?
[03:44:49] <zeeshan> 6500k leds
[03:44:57] <zeeshan> theyre so dim looking for the same lumens
[03:44:58] <XXCoder> bluish ones?
[03:45:00] <zeeshan> yea
[03:45:09] <zeeshan> 4300 is perfect
[03:45:36] <renesis> wonder how she got 20mV to do 24 lm
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[03:47:34] <CaptHindsight> the average person at rest 65 Calories (kCal) per hour 75.54W
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[03:47:44] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Brinkmann-809-1021-0-Rebel-LED-Flashlight/dp/B002ZG7WMG/ref=sr_1_21?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1415850438&sr=1-21
[03:47:55] <XXCoder> this is newer version of my flshlight
[03:48:09] <XXCoder> runtime 75 hours
[03:48:29] <XXCoder> funny because mine is even longer. it can even run on supposely dead batteries
[03:49:00] <renesis> 100 lm/w, so she would just have to harness like .33% i think
[03:49:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121415474632?lpid=82 Peltier Plate $4.77
[03:49:18] <renesis> then maybe its just a jewel thief to boost to LED Vf
[03:49:46] <renesis> if its even an LED
[03:50:13] <CaptHindsight> forward voltage for a single LED is ~3.4V
[03:50:15] <renesis> they mention voltage conversion so seems likely
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[03:51:03] <renesis> so much current to get 20mV that boosted tho
[03:51:05] <XXCoder> capt theres other version thats long rather than square
[03:51:25] <XXCoder> that one is better for flashlight
[03:51:45] <XXCoder> honestly if it is to be used in flashlight I'd make custom pelter plate
[03:51:53] <XXCoder> even bigger and basically tube shaped
[03:52:06] <CaptHindsight> miner helmet
[03:52:09] <CaptHindsight> hands free
[03:52:21] <XXCoder> yeah head releases so much heat
[03:52:29] <XXCoder> go adread patent that idea
[03:52:41] <XXCoder> you'll have to use her patent to extend to yours though
[03:52:44] <CaptHindsight> dare me
[03:52:49] <CaptHindsight> go ahead
[03:53:01] <XXCoder> I double fracking dare you!
[03:53:27] <CaptHindsight> does she have a patent on what people have done for years?
[03:53:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I triple dawg dare you!
[03:53:42] <renesis> she could patent the assembly
[03:53:43] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: years? not at all
[03:53:44] <CaptHindsight> oh no!
[03:53:50] <XXCoder> she was first to have that idea
[03:54:06] <CaptHindsight> I don't think so
[03:54:09] <renesis> generating electricity with a peltier?
[03:54:25] <XXCoder> renesis: no. using it to make batteryless flashlight
[03:55:05] <Jymmm> not a new idea either
[03:55:09] <renesis> yeah thats a stretch, it would prob be pretty easy to find people mentioning something like that
[03:55:16] <XXCoder> thing is
[03:55:18] <renesis> but if her assembly works, she could patent that
[03:55:32] <XXCoder> sometimes it's simple ideas that is a big success
[03:56:09] <XXCoder> odd thing I just thought - it wouldnt even need a switch!
[03:56:28] <XXCoder> you would hold it when you need it. when pocketed it should not generate enough to even light up.
[03:56:34] <CaptHindsight> how about using sunlight to power a battery and then a LED? This would even work without people or even cold ones.
[03:56:39] <renesis> i dunno you dont need to charge it?
[03:56:47] <XXCoder> renesis: no battery
[03:56:55] <renesis> could use a cap to get it going
[03:56:58] <XXCoder> hold it then it light ups
[03:57:36] <XXCoder> CaptHindsight: yeah but solar means more money. it works in cold weather actually. it works even better
[03:57:49] <CaptHindsight> the latest quantum dots emit for >8 hours
[03:57:55] <renesis> oh, mentions making her own transformer
[03:57:56] <XXCoder> not so much in hot weather I would say but then dunnpo
[03:58:00] <renesis> so theres the boost circuit
[03:58:16] <CaptHindsight> so you just let them soak up the sun all day and then they emit all night
[03:58:31] <renesis> be funny if she tries to patent a joule theif
[03:58:39] <CaptHindsight> no batteries, no wires, no warm bodies
[03:58:41] <XXCoder> dunno?
[03:59:43] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/BluMaxx-Hi-Performance-Flashlights-Batteries-Included/dp/B002QSE1R2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415850574&sr=8-1&keywords=blumaxx+light lol my regular ones
[03:59:56] <XXCoder> it uses battery faster but it's nice and unbreakable.
[04:00:20] <XXCoder> I took couple to ape cave and I smashed one on rock when I fell and had to grab one of rocks lol
[04:00:48] <XXCoder> surpised at 40 lumens 0- it's hella brighter than my old one
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[04:07:56] <XXCoder> curious if any of you are following no shave nov?
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[04:12:56] <XXCoder> looks like one of freenode server went down
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[04:14:17] <Jymmmm> just a netsplit
[04:14:18] * LeelooMinai sighs
[04:14:26] <LeelooMinai> Still no cookies for me: "hm2/hm2_5i25.0: invalid cookie, got 0x55AACAFF, expected 0x55AACAFE"
[04:14:40] <Jymmmm> LeelooMinai: Got Milk?
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[04:17:02] <renesis> pecan sandies + milk = real ultimate power
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[04:17:24] <renesis> if you microwave the sandies just long enough, they are chewy and taste like cookie dough
[04:17:41] <renesis> its like <20 sec very easy to burn them
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[04:35:07] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, got further again, but still something is wrong: http://i.imgur.com/RV7D1dF.png
[04:35:30] <LeelooMinai> Not sure why "dropping AnyIO board" is there
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[04:38:08] <LeelooMinai> I see also "Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-14-not' does not exis"
[04:38:36] <LeelooMinai> That's good actually, it means it's probably configuration - I will be learning this tomorrow
[04:38:56] <LeelooMinai> So maybe this day was not lost after all:)
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[07:55:35] <Deejay> moin
[07:56:07] * Jymmmm looks at the clock.... eh, fuck it.
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[08:07:10] <Deejay> :-)
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[08:19:29] <archivist> Rab, there is a sliding 6 start system made by Igus made in a variety of options and sizes http://www.igus.co.uk/wpck/10816/SD_Gewindetriebe?C=GB&L=en
[08:21:10] <Jymmm> Whats the pros/cons of multi start leadscrews?
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[08:50:09] <archivist> speed
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[09:13:31] <Tom_itx> ^^
[09:16:03] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if a hot water heater leaks/bursts in the middle of the night, will it keep trying to heat the water?
[09:18:11] <Jymmm> (gas)
[09:20:05] <renesis> scary
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[09:30:12] <Jymmm> Actually, I think I'll just turn the water heater to PILOT. That should prevent glowing metal at least =)
[09:30:45] <Tom_itx> you don't want a nuclear meltdown??
[09:31:27] <Tom_itx> i've never seen one burst
[09:31:38] <Tom_itx> rather drip for quite a long time first
[09:33:22] <Jymmm> it leaked about 16 ounces, then stop, then continous slow leak, that increases after a shower.
[09:33:49] <Jymmm> The pan is just rusting out and I don't want any surprises in the middle of the night.
[09:34:09] <Tom_itx> residue in the bottom was plugging the hole
[09:34:46] <Jymmm> I flushed the tank a ways back, but that doen'st mean I got everything out.
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[09:36:10] <Jymmm> Now I just have the 40+ gallons to deal with. Beats a river flowing thru the garage =)
[09:36:17] <Tom_itx> buy a cheap one to replace it... they're all the same
[09:36:38] <Tom_itx> they bet against the warranty
[09:36:39] <Jymmm> The slumlord is coming tomorrow.
[09:37:33] <Tom_itx> oh well you'll get another used one from a different unit :D
[09:37:43] <Jymmm> again.
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[10:00:52] <archivist_herron> get out of the slum get your own place
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[10:50:34] * Loetmichel has fun again... i have to design a aluminium billet milled part. red line is the outline of a 8mm high cap... but the part at the EMI-Comression fitting has to be 14mm high... that will be a LOT of milling... wall size is 1.5mm at max or it will not fit inside the keyboard :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15371
[10:51:54] <SpeedEvil> why mak it out of one part?
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[10:52:15] <Loetmichel> do you have a better idea?
[10:52:19] <SpeedEvil> If that's an EMC shield - making it milled is insane
[10:52:51] <SpeedEvil> a little tinned steel box, made from 0.5mm steel and soldered at teh edges
[10:53:39] <Loetmichel> tried that. doesent work
[10:54:01] <Loetmichel> you cant get it connected wuite right at the corners to the PCB/keyboard foil
[10:54:30] <Loetmichel> and it has to hold the forces of the cable in the comression fitting
[10:54:36] <Loetmichel> so it has to be kind of rigid
[10:55:16] <SpeedEvil> What's this for
[10:55:26] <SpeedEvil> is it to replace the shielding you cut off?
[10:56:37] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60mm-x-5M-EMI-EMC-Copper-Foil-Shielding-Tape-Adhesive-Conductive-/261503586546?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3ce2d410f2 - for example - and solder the edges to the pcb
[10:57:30] <SpeedEvil> Is that a stock compression fitting?
[10:58:08] <Loetmichel> the shieling i cut off proved not to be sufficient
[10:58:08] <SpeedEvil> Also - do you actually need EMC shielding?
[10:58:12] <Loetmichel> it was a test
[10:58:27] <Loetmichel> we do shielding against tempest attacks
[10:58:28] <SpeedEvil> What are you trying to do
[10:58:31] <SpeedEvil> ah
[10:59:24] <SpeedEvil> What is the internal EMC prevention?
[10:59:29] <SpeedEvil> Is it USB/PS2?
[10:59:51] <Loetmichel> usb
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[11:00:24] <SpeedEvil> Several things I'd think about to cheat.
[11:00:51] <SpeedEvil> First - don't do that - put the cable through a little PCB to limit slew rate and add ferrites.
[11:01:05] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't need to go faster than USB1 - 1.5mbps
[11:01:27] <SpeedEvil> that is - an internally mounted cable to the little socket
[11:02:18] <Loetmichel> it is a compression fitting specially made for emi shielding, so the shielding of the cable can contaced inside that all the wyaay around
[11:02:18] <Loetmichel> wrong
[11:02:18] <Loetmichel> the cardreader wants to connect as USB2
[11:02:18] <Loetmichel> (the upright part on the left)
[11:02:58] <vapula> how about making the whole surface a thin magnet ?
[11:03:01] <SpeedEvil> you can have USB2 at 1.5mbps
[11:03:11] <SpeedEvil> Indeed, usb3
[11:03:13] <Loetmichel> i meant 480Mbit
[11:03:32] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: have you actually checked that.
[11:03:36] <Loetmichel> yes
[11:03:39] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: that seems extremely unlikely
[11:03:44] <Loetmichel> it is
[11:03:49] <Loetmichel> i checlked a few times
[11:03:52] <SpeedEvil> Simply as 480mbps chips are considerably more expensive
[11:04:05] <Loetmichel> and actually high frequencies are easier to shield than low ones ;-)
[11:04:08] <SpeedEvil> Youy do know that 'USB2' peripherals aren't all 480mbps?
[11:04:15] <Loetmichel> and we only have to measure up to 4ghz... ;-)
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[11:04:48] <Loetmichel> i do, and i checked the frequencies, it connects as hi-speed-device
[11:04:57] <Loetmichel> says the spectrum analyzer
[11:04:58] <SpeedEvil> Your task is what - to make this keyboard work, or to redesign it?
[11:05:04] <Loetmichel> the baseline is clearly to se
[11:05:20] <Loetmichel> redesing to meet Sdip27 rules
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[11:05:43] <SpeedEvil> I'd say milled is vast overkill.
[11:05:49] <Loetmichel> thats why there is a brass sheet underneath the key foil already
[11:06:04] <Loetmichel> and the shielding tape on top
[11:06:06] <SpeedEvil> Firstly - what spectrum limits are you hitting, and how dramatically?
[11:06:33] <SpeedEvil> And where is this coming from - USB, keyboard scanning, card reader, ...
[11:06:44] <Loetmichel> not allowd to disclose the levels, but i am about 8db abboce limit at certain frequencys with shielding tape alone
[11:06:50] <Loetmichel> above
[11:07:39] <Loetmichel> somewhere from the board, the sniffing anenna isnt more precise than that
[11:08:00] <SpeedEvil> what frequency? Low, or high? Are you picking up thematrix scanning - or USB outputs
[11:08:18] <Loetmichel> an i can Tell you that the allowed leves are about 20-40 db BELOW CE emi requirements
[11:08:40] <SpeedEvil> yeah - CE is not really for this :)
[11:08:55] <Loetmichel> i would say something from the controller, around 8 mhz and harmonics
[11:09:19] <Loetmichel> up to 1ghz
[11:10:13] <SpeedEvil> My first step would be to look hard at the microcontroller.
[11:10:24] <SpeedEvil> For example - decoupling of the power supply close to the chip
[11:11:39] <SpeedEvil> Other than that - I'd try removing the keyboard matrix - and seeing if it's conducted EMI radiated through that
[11:11:58] <SpeedEvil> it's a pity that the best way to fix this is a redesign - but...
[11:12:31] <SpeedEvil> - slow all of the keyboard lines down so there is no energy over 10khz going into them
[11:12:46] <Loetmichel> as my boss already told me to do the aluminium cap, i frankly have no way to do that or i risk some chewing out
[11:12:47] <SpeedEvil> then you can lose all of the expensive brass and shielding
[11:12:50] <SpeedEvil> k
[11:13:00] <SpeedEvil> sorry for the distraction :)
[11:13:12] <Loetmichel> no problem, i am willing to learn...
[11:13:29] <Loetmichel> HF isnt my core field of experience ;-9
[11:13:36] <SpeedEvil> The existing shielding looks like it's been soldered to the PCB
[11:13:44] <SpeedEvil> Or at least heat-sealed
[11:14:12] <SpeedEvil> you'll probably need to solder copper strips to the edges of the PCB, and then connect those to the aluminium all the way round
[11:14:15] <Loetmichel> no, its just a shielding tape made of nylon 2felt" sputtered with nickel+
[11:14:21] <Loetmichel> and a conductive cglue
[11:14:22] <SpeedEvil> conductive adhesive may be adequate
[11:14:36] <SpeedEvil> then it's probably hot-barred downto the solder pads around the edge of the PCB
[11:14:57] <SpeedEvil> Good luck
[11:15:05] <Loetmichel> btw: a spool of tthis tape costs 800 eur
[11:15:12] <SpeedEvil> I should stop distracting myself, and go and cut some roofing stuff.
[11:15:13] <Loetmichel> thats for 30m long 30cm wide tape
[11:15:25] <SpeedEvil> yeah - EMC stuff is insanely expensive if you want the good stuff and not simple copper/...
[11:15:30] <SpeedEvil> heh
[11:15:35] <Loetmichel> so brass and even the aluminium part is MUCH cheaper ;-)
[11:15:38] <SpeedEvil> at that price - screw metals.
[11:15:47] <SpeedEvil> Going fully optical for the key matrix may be cheaper
[11:16:27] <SpeedEvil> I should wander off and cut floors :)
[11:16:33] <Loetmichel> one problem of that is the standing order to "stay inside the original enclosure if possible"
[11:16:48] <Loetmichel> ... which talkes some thinking sometinmes ;-9
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[11:34:51] <jthornton> while this sounds good there is something wrong when I translate it to python http://slabode.exofire.net/circle_draw.shtml
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[11:54:23] <jdh> jt: I would think that drawing arc/circle woudl be a known science with lots of code to borrow. is this not the case?
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[12:01:51] <jthornton> that's the only one I've found so far
[12:02:09] <jthornton> maybe my search terms are wrong
[12:03:13] <archivist_herron> that is basic trig to divide up the arc/circle, should be easy to debug a version of it
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[12:09:55] <jthornton> looks like Bresenham's circle algorithm is popular after changing search terms
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[12:15:06] <archivist_herron> bresenham is a bit different, it is used on pixels rather than lines normally
[12:15:50] <jthornton> well carp I didn't pick up on that
[12:17:43] <archivist_herron> there may well be more than one bresenham algo. I was playing with arcs some years ago, good book(5 in set) with most methods is Graphics Gems
[12:18:15] <archivist_herron> you can download the books code without getting the books
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[12:36:55] <jthornton> this page? http://tog.acm.org/resources/GraphicsGems/
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[12:48:20] <jthornton> found this in the pdf http://pastebin.com/Hx8c3k0c
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[12:52:14] <jthornton> I can't seem to find the code for A Good Straight-Line Approximation of a Circular Arc GGII p435 code p617
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[13:03:34] <mozmck1> jthornton: the one you posted a link to yesterday about OpenGL?
[13:04:28] <jthornton> the one I tried yesterday did not work to draw a circle or an arc... it kinda worked but not
[13:04:33] <mozmck1> http://slabode.exofire.net/circle_draw.shtml
[13:04:55] <jthornton> that's the one that didn't work
[13:04:59] <mozmck1> oh, ok
[13:05:27] <jthornton> well I didn't try the first one but the second and third one don't work
[13:05:59] <archivist> I imaging it is not the original code that is in error :)
[13:10:29] <mozmck1> It may have to do with your GL setup. Lighting and normals is another fun area :)
[13:11:55] <mozmck1> I made this call just before generating vertexes: glNormal3d(0.0, 0.0, -1.0); //normal pointing down
[13:13:04] <mozmck1> If the normal is not correct, you may be looking at the invisible backside of a circle, depending on the order you generate the vertexes.
[13:13:05] <jthornton> let me try that, I had some code to put it in 2d I think
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[13:14:24] <mozmck1> oops, actually use 1.0 for the last argument - that one was for the bottom of a cylinder.
[13:15:04] <jthornton> this is my 2d setup http://pastebin.com/kysBZemy
[13:16:37] <jthornton> this is where I'm at now http://pastebin.com/rK8bFQVu
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[13:30:05] <jthornton> I can draw lines and they show up where I expect them to show up so I really think the arc/circle algorithms that I'm currently using are flawed
[13:34:50] <archivist> remember you are only drawing lines even with those algorithms
[13:35:13] <jthornton> yea, lots of short lines
[13:35:15] <archivist> single step and debug your code
[13:37:50] <jthornton> as I see it I'm really calculating a bunch of triangles
[13:38:56] <archivist> yes
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[13:57:23] <mozmck1> jthornton: the problem in your draw_circle_slow() is math.radians(theta)
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[13:58:27] <mozmck1> theta is already in radians (that's why it's multiplied by 2 * pi), so using math.radians converts it to garbage
[13:59:05] <mozmck1> I see you did that in draw_circle as well, that probably the problem there as well.
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[14:08:49] <mozmck> logger[psha]: log
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[14:24:58] <jthornton> mozmck, thanks I just assumed it was in degrees
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[14:25:43] <jthornton> thanks for looking at it
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[14:56:45] <mozmck> jthornton: no problem!
[15:08:40] <CaptHindsight> anyone ever machine Delrin or nylons to a near polished finish?
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[15:14:12] <Loetmichel> capricorn_1: usea VERY sharp mill bit
[15:14:21] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight
[15:14:34] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I had fair results with a very sharp 2 flute in that impeller video I posted a while back.
[15:15:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15256&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:15:18] <Loetmichel> gives a mirror finish on POM
[15:16:22] <Loetmichel> i used TC 2 flute bits ground to cut aluminium
[15:16:41] <Loetmichel> new ones
[15:16:58] <Loetmichel> if they have seen any metal or Fibre plastic the finish is gone
[15:17:47] <CaptHindsight> this would have to be 5-axis, the parts are all contoured surfaces
[15:17:56] <FinboySlick> Trick might be to spin it just fast enough to avoid melting but that likely depends very much on your geometry.
[15:18:59] <archivist> mirror finish and machining is an oxymoron
[15:20:09] <CaptHindsight> aiming as much as possible for the look of parts injection molded for protos
[15:21:14] <FinboySlick> CaptHindsight: I imagine you can't flame-polish delrin as nicely as one might lexan/plexy, right?
[15:21:34] <archivist> often molded parts have a "finish" to allow some machining error
[15:22:01] <archivist> sandblast or similar
[15:23:34] <CaptHindsight> these can be anywhere from a rough texture like #100 sandpaper to high gloss
[15:24:35] <CaptHindsight> FinboySlick: it might be a flame or plasma mounted on a robot arm to achieve the precision
[15:25:12] <CaptHindsight> I thought maybe this has all be sorted out
[15:25:23] <CaptHindsight> be/been
[15:26:12] <archivist> another cheat is to lacquer the item
[15:26:35] <CaptHindsight> can't cheat
[15:26:45] <CaptHindsight> that would be too easy
[15:27:08] <CaptHindsight> has to be functional
[15:27:51] <archivist> a finish should not affect function
[15:28:13] <CaptHindsight> finish is part of the function
[15:28:29] <CaptHindsight> if it flexes the coating can't flake
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[15:29:05] <CaptHindsight> the decoration is part of the function
[15:29:35] <CaptHindsight> if you're prototyping consumer goods the look and feel is important
[15:29:55] <Loetmichel> so sandblast it afterwards
[15:30:26] <Loetmichel> the traces of the mill bit will be visible otherwise, althoug in between the traces there can be mirror finsih with the right bit
[15:31:10] <CaptHindsight> cnc polisher
[15:32:06] <archivist> for metal I use a burnisher
[15:33:56] <zeeshan> archivist: lies
[15:34:00] <zeeshan> "10:27:54] <archivist> a finish should not affect function"
[15:34:01] <zeeshan> :]
[15:34:08] <CaptHindsight> this is all acetal, nylon and other polyamides
[15:34:26] <CaptHindsight> heh, it just depends on your perspective
[15:34:33] <zeeshan> im picking on him
[15:34:35] <zeeshan> cause he makes gears
[15:34:50] <zeeshan> rough gears at least in car applications are a no no
[15:35:01] * archivist picks on zeeshan just for kicks
[15:35:07] <zeeshan> lol
[15:35:14] <CaptHindsight> you call those things in your garage cars?!
[15:35:18] <zeeshan> how do you burnish
[15:35:42] <zeeshan> i remember @ the transmission pump place
[15:35:44] <archivist> with a bit of HSS
[15:35:51] <zeeshan> we used to do a burnishing operation on a journal
[15:36:23] <zeeshan> it was like a hone almost
[15:36:29] <archivist> clock pivots are expected to be mirror finish
[15:36:53] <zeeshan> can you only burnish bores?
[15:37:09] <archivist> no
[15:37:15] <zeeshan> http://www.elliott-tool.com/images/products/header/eng/ID-Roller-Burnishing-Tool.jpg
[15:37:18] <zeeshan> was a tool like that
[15:37:41] <archivist> http://www.eternaltools.com/clock-pivot-files
[15:38:13] <zeeshan> ah
[15:38:27] <zeeshan> was talking to the machinist at school
[15:38:38] <zeeshan> he was telling me a joke i guess
[15:38:44] <zeeshan> american vs swiss
[15:39:10] <zeeshan> so back in the day the americans were all proud of their precision so they sent a swiss company a .001" diameter shaft
[15:39:11] <Rab> CaptHindsight, people are using acetone vapor polishing to pretty up 3D prints. Not sure which solvent you'd need for delrin or nylon.
[15:39:28] <zeeshan> the swiss returned it a couple weeks later
[15:39:31] <zeeshan> with a hole through it :)
[15:39:56] <CaptHindsight> Rab: they do that with PLA
[15:40:21] <archivist> for the bore http://www.rnhorological.co.uk/broaches.htm some cut some burnish
[15:40:32] <CaptHindsight> Rab: have there been any explosions yet?
[15:41:15] <Rab> CaptHindsight, not AFAIK. I don't know how flammable acetone vapor is.
[15:41:25] <archivist> zeeshan, the other version involves Rolls Royce where a tube is returned inside that tube
[15:41:31] <CaptHindsight> Rab: very
[15:41:39] <Loetmichel> extremely flammable. but only in a slamm concentration band
[15:41:43] <Loetmichel> small
[15:41:43] <zeeshan> archivist: haha
[15:42:01] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I'd also be concerned about health effects.
[15:42:50] <zeeshan> rab let the 3d printers die die die
[15:42:52] <Rab> And of course it undermines your dimensional tolerances. But might be worth a try.
[15:42:52] <zeeshan> jk
[15:43:05] <zeeshan> im just jealous :/
[15:43:09] <zeeshan> i need a 3d printer
[15:43:14] <CaptHindsight> Rab: acetal is resistant to many solvents, that is why it is used in industrial applications
[15:43:40] <CaptHindsight> FDM has its place
[15:44:37] <CaptHindsight> it's just that they are over-hyped for applications far out of their range
[15:45:43] <CaptHindsight> you're going to see FDM inside along with inkjet, SLA and SLS in the same machine
[15:48:13] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately those types of designs are beyond the abilities of the maker community
[15:50:48] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: lol
[15:51:33] <zeeshan> okay i need an affirmitive decision on this cause i gotta order more fuse holders
[15:51:49] <zeeshan> nm!
[15:51:53] * zeeshan hides
[15:51:53] <CaptHindsight> I concur
[15:52:04] <zeeshan> im about to put 3 fans in parallel
[15:52:07] <zeeshan> with 1 fuse holder
[15:52:16] <jdh> prallel fans?
[15:52:26] <CaptHindsight> 100ma x 3 = 300ma
[15:52:27] <zeeshan> each fan draws .1A , and im throwing a .5A fuse fuse
[15:52:28] <jdh> vs.?
[15:52:40] <zeeshan> to allow for some overcurrent during initial startup
[15:52:40] <CaptHindsight> go for it!!
[15:52:43] <Rab> zeeshan, do you have the fans already?
[15:52:46] <zeeshan> rab yes
[15:52:56] <zeeshan> im just ordering some fuse holders
[15:52:58] <zeeshan> so i ned to know how many
[15:53:10] <Rab> zeeshan, maybe record the current profile from starting a fan.
[15:53:11] <zeeshan> it really makes no sense to fuse each fan seperately..
[15:53:49] <zeeshan> if my logic is right.. if in the worst case scenario a fan coil shorts
[15:53:55] <jdh> I'd skip the fan fuse.
[15:53:57] <zeeshan> it should be able to handle .5A without going on fire
[15:54:02] <CaptHindsight> use #14 wire for hookup then no matter what the fans will burn up in case of a short even if someone has replaced your fuse with a penny
[15:54:40] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: yes im only really using #14 everywhere
[15:54:46] <zeeshan> especially since i got a 1000 feet of 3 colors
[15:54:48] <zeeshan> !!
[15:55:31] <archivist> use one colour, then you cannot make a mistake because it is the right colour always
[15:55:43] <zeeshan> LOL
[15:55:43] <CaptHindsight> we have 100ma fans everywhere that have locked up when clogged and not a single fire in 25+ years
[15:56:00] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i guess impedance protection works :D
[15:56:07] <archivist> we wired a raft with one colour :)
[15:56:22] <zeeshan> archivist: i do car wiring mostly in one color
[15:56:39] <zeeshan> but it's labelled every foot
[15:56:42] <jdh> I have one machine where everything is wired with 14 gauge red wire
[15:56:51] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you even bother numbering them?
[15:57:04] <jdh> and all the field IO is run back to one cabinet
[15:57:08] <jdh> full of red wires.
[15:57:13] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: i use alphanumeric system + actual name
[15:57:28] <zeeshan> so it'll be E24 "crankshaft pos +"
[15:57:33] <zeeshan> for example
[15:57:41] <zeeshan> very easy to identify
[15:58:14] <CaptHindsight> what does the "E" and the "24" have to do with the crankshaft?
[15:58:20] <CaptHindsight> sounds confusing
[15:58:27] <zeeshan> E is engine subset wiring
[15:58:32] <zeeshan> 24 is 24th sensor
[15:58:39] <zeeshan> wire #1
[15:58:39] <zeeshan> :P
[15:58:50] <zeeshan> if you see D24 for example
[15:58:50] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but I don't know that
[15:58:53] <zeeshan> thats a dash
[15:59:00] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: it's not for you
[15:59:02] <zeeshan> it's for me :)
[15:59:06] <CaptHindsight> E could be for Eddie who wired it
[15:59:33] <zeeshan> sometimes you have dash (gauge) and engine sensor wires in the same bundle
[15:59:41] <archivist> E is for end of wire
[15:59:51] <zeeshan> so if you see D or E
[15:59:56] <zeeshan> you know where the signal is going to or coming from
[15:59:59] <zeeshan> based on the wire location
[16:00:14] <CaptHindsight> they make CNC polishers for planar plastics http://www.republiclaguncnc.com/acrylic_polishing_machine.php
[16:01:35] <CaptHindsight> I can see the infomercial now "no more guessing where the end of the wire is"
[16:01:53] <zeeshan> you guys love picking on me
[16:02:00] <ssi> it's so easy
[16:02:10] <zeeshan> ssi joins the fun
[16:03:17] <Rab> zeeshan, how do you physically label the wires?
[16:03:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.coburntechnologies.com/surfacing/finers_polishers/cobalt.htm
[16:03:56] <ssi> at delta they have machines, you put in the wirebook number, it spits out the exact length of wire, labeled along its length, cut, stripped, and electrically tested
[16:04:15] <zeeshan> rab a wire rpinter
[16:04:17] <Rab> ssi, that is excellent.
[16:04:41] <CaptHindsight> looks like I have to come up with some sort of lapping tool
[16:04:42] <Rab> zeeshan, who makes/how much?
[16:04:45] <zeeshan> with cars is a lot of custom wiring
[16:05:21] <zeeshan> rab mine was from eaton
[16:05:24] <zeeshan> that was getting scrapped
[16:05:38] <Rab> hmm
[16:06:03] <ssi> I have a labelmaker that prints on heatshrink; that's how I typically label wires
[16:06:06] <CaptHindsight> I hate auto wiring diagrams. They don't show all the shared connections.
[16:06:20] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: what car
[16:06:21] <zeeshan> lol
[16:06:28] <zeeshan> jap ones do
[16:06:33] <zeeshan> shit even my rx7 one does from 1992
[16:06:35] <CaptHindsight> true with Nissan
[16:07:36] <archivist> this is what I call a car diagram http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/Lucas/TP/TP11/drg35.jpg
[16:07:43] <CaptHindsight> for example, say pin 111 on the ECU is in one diagram, they don't have an overview of all the other diagrams that connect to pin 111
[16:08:11] <ssi> archivist: it's well documented, but never works :)
[16:09:12] <CaptHindsight> Lucky U Can Actually Start LUCAS
[16:10:10] <jthornton> everything seems to work except the arc, it starts in the right place but does not go far enough http://pastebin.com/HMeDMZZQ
[16:10:41] <CaptHindsight> ssi: have a link to that printer?
[16:10:49] <CaptHindsight> that sounds great
[16:11:58] <CaptHindsight> found one
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[16:13:10] <Rab> The Dymo?
[16:13:40] <Rab> Heh, $24.75 for a 5' heat shrink cartridge.
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[16:13:56] <jdh> JT: the -1?
[16:14:39] <Rab> I guess that's 60-120 labels if you're concise. I wonder if the printer is sparing with the header and footer.
[16:15:47] <Rab> Brother makes one too.
[16:16:27] <ssi> CaptHindsight: the one I have? it's a dymo rhino I think
[16:16:27] <zeeshan> sorry was on the phone
[16:16:32] <zeeshan> i got a quote on a 65A contactor
[16:16:33] <zeeshan> 90$!!
[16:17:43] <zeeshan> looks like that is a fair price
[16:17:45] <zeeshan> compared to ebay
[16:18:01] <zeeshan> rab we use one made by taym,er
[16:18:32] <zeeshan> i cant find the exact picture online
[16:18:33] <zeeshan> its old
[16:19:00] <Rab> Is it inkjet, or hot stamp, or?
[16:19:06] <zeeshan> hot stamp
[16:19:08] <zeeshan> so no need fore heat shrink
[16:19:12] <zeeshan> prints right on the wire
[16:19:23] <ssi> I'd like to have a machine like that
[16:19:29] <Rab> Hmm, yeah. What's the smallest gauge it can handle?
[16:19:37] <zeeshan> like 22 gauge
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[16:25:11] <zeeshan> man this is the time where i wish i worked at eaton
[16:25:20] <zeeshan> i'd go through the scrap pile and prolly find like 2390321089 60A contactors
[16:25:22] <zeeshan> for free :/
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[16:30:35] <jdh> add another glVertex2f right before the glEnd() ?
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[17:00:16] <JT-Shop> jdh, here is where I'm getting the code from and converting from C to Python http://slabode.exofire.net/circle_draw.shtml
[17:01:28] <JT-Shop> float theta = arc_angle / float(num_segments - 1);//theta is now calculated from the arc angle instead, the - 1 bit comes from the fact that the arc is open
[17:01:38] <JT-Shop> that's from the web page
[17:03:25] <jdh> same loop semantics?
[17:04:36] <jdh> easy enough to check, copy/paste the glVertex2f line.
[17:05:30] <jdh> I'm a big fan of off-by-one errors.
[17:05:51] <jdh> well, not so much fan, but I manage to do it enough.
[17:06:16] <jthornton> I had the grouping wrong for the formula
[17:06:26] <jthornton> theta = arc_angle / (float(segments) -1)
[17:06:51] <jthornton> not theta = (arc_angle / float(segments)) -1
[17:07:52] <jthornton> your question about the -1 tipped me off
[17:08:03] <jdh> neither of those looks correct.
[17:08:20] <jdh> but the first might work
[17:08:22] <jthornton> however I get the correct results
[17:08:42] <jthornton> from theta = arc_angle / (float(segments) -1)
[17:08:46] <jdh> it is poor form to subtract an int from a float
[17:09:12] <jthornton> it gets converted to a float
[17:09:12] <jdh> float (segments -1)
[17:09:23] <jthornton> ok even better
[17:10:44] <jthornton> now to put an opengl window into my gtk window LOL
[17:21:28] <cradek> you realize you copied the code from the "this is the terrible algorithm I'm improving as we go down the page" part?
[17:21:45] <jthornton> the first one yes
[17:22:07] <jthornton> I was trying to sort out where I went wrong with the sin and cos functions
[17:22:14] <renesis> heh
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[17:39:21] * JT-Shop has to take the top off the stove and reseal it... yuck what a mess
[17:39:53] <jdh> does that involve cleaning it?
[17:39:57] * SpeedEvil wishes zero expansion coefficient ceramic glas could be bought
[17:40:10] <SpeedEvil> The stuff they put on induction and ceramic hobs
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[17:44:35] <JT-Shop> it's clean from spring, I have to take the pipe off and then take the top off. Clean the area the caulk it and put back
[17:45:27] <JT-Shop> lows in the teens for the next few days
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[17:48:05] <jdh> yuck
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[17:49:28] <ssi> yeah I bought a propane heater for the hangar last night
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[17:49:33] <ssi> 80kbtu
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[17:50:36] <SpeedEvil> I made 6*2m*15cm*1.2m boxes to stick on the edge of my roof, so Ican get on with insulating under them
[17:50:39] <SpeedEvil> 7
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[18:04:39] <CaptHindsight> ssi: does it get cold down there? I thought it rarely gets <20F.
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[19:09:58] <ssi> CaptHindsight: gets cold enough
[19:10:06] <ssi> highs are in the mid 40s this week
[19:10:23] <jdh> it will be 36f here this w/e :(
[19:10:26] <ssi> cold enough that it's uncomfortable working in an unheated 10,000sf steel building
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[19:10:45] <CaptHindsight> wow even you guys
[19:10:47] <jdh> how high are teh ceilings?
[19:10:51] <ssi> 25'
[19:10:56] <jdh> heh
[19:11:08] <jdh> that's a lot of ft^3
[19:11:09] <CaptHindsight> same as mine, warm and toasty at the top of the stairs
[19:11:22] <jdh> I assuem you mostly have to heat the top 2/3 first
[19:11:50] <ssi> I don't think I could really heat the place properly
[19:11:56] <ssi> definitely not if it's actually cold and the wind is blowing
[19:11:58] <ssi> no insulation
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[20:03:42] <CaptHindsight> https://www.crowdsupply.com/klecker-tools/klax expensive ax head
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[20:09:05] <SpeedEvil> that's not expensive.
[20:09:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.casstrom.se/axes/hunting-axe-damasteel.html
[20:10:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gen-smide.se/damaskalteng.html
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[21:01:20] <LeelooMinai> I get this message when starting linuxcnc inside Debian ISO: "Locked memory limit is 64KiB, recommended at least 20480KiB"
[21:01:37] <LeelooMinai> I checked the limits.conf, and it looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/jZycN8j.png
[21:01:59] <LeelooMinai> Seems like there's already some line for linuxcnc
[21:02:36] <LeelooMinai> ANy ideas why do I get that message?
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[21:06:49] <jdh> were you getting this before?
[21:07:02] <LeelooMinai> It's first run really
[21:07:03] <jdh> did it start occuring after you changed a config, or rebuilt linuxcnc?
[21:07:51] <LeelooMinai> TOday I played only with halrun - just trying some commands
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[21:09:32] <LeelooMinai> That seemed to work good though - no problems. Exited halrun, started LinuxCNC with some sample axis config and got the message
[21:10:02] <LeelooMinai> So googled, and looked at that limits.config, but it seems to be fine
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[21:11:01] <jdh> this is a fresh install or soemthing? I thought you had been running linuxcnc before?
[21:11:20] <LeelooMinai> Yes, that's install from yesterday with that Debian ISO they have now
[21:12:10] <LeelooMinai> So pretty recent stuff I believe
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[21:18:09] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, Cannot run latency test today too - weird
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[21:22:29] <LeelooMinai> O, hmm, I found what's the problem
[21:22:56] <LeelooMinai> It happens on my vncserver screen only, not on the connected monitor
[21:24:05] <LeelooMinai> BUt I am pretty sure it was working with x11vnc server yesterday...
[21:26:30] <LeelooMinai> Maybe the GUI stuff does not like whatever vncserver provides as the screen
[21:27:03] <jdh> why would you run vncserver with linuxcnc
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[21:27:26] <LeelooMinai> To access the machine remotely of course
[21:28:41] <LeelooMinai> The PC is supposed to be monitor-less, keyboard-less, etc. - jsut sitting there and controling the CNC
[21:29:21] <LeelooMinai> Don't tell me no one uses lunuxcnc like that...
[21:30:21] <jdh> ok, I won't.
[21:30:54] <renesis> thats not a cnc controller thats like a cnc server
[21:32:03] * JT-Shop can't imagine running a CNC machine remotely unless it is on the moon or mars
[21:32:37] <LeelooMinai> It's called networking and was invented long time ago:)
[21:34:30] <LeelooMinai> Amd remotely controlling things is at least century old too
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[22:02:16] <renesis> leeloominai: cnc machine crash when you go for coffee
[22:02:29] <renesis> its like how usb are never facing the right way the first try
[22:02:32] <renesis> its just a thing
[22:02:44] <renesis> cnc server is like, permanenent coffee break
[22:03:33] <LeelooMinai> It's my cnc in my room - I am not going to sit by it, waiting to do what it has to do:)
[22:03:50] <renesis> thats what youre supposed to do!
[22:03:54] <renesis> youre a cnc operator!
[22:04:00] <LeelooMinai> I will sit at my computer place and control it.
[22:04:05] <renesis> get a coffee machine and a comfy stool
[22:04:16] <LeelooMinai> No, I am a hobbyist:)
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[22:05:14] <taiden> check out page 17 https://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf
[22:05:21] <renesis> i used to fall asleep while machining aluminum pockets =\
[22:05:35] <renesis> wake up, spindle running, pile of chips underneath
[22:05:41] <taiden> how do these guys figure you select a motor with a holding torque below what your torque requirements are for acceleration & forces required
[22:05:43] <LeelooMinai> Anyways, I got it to work with x11vnc - but with limited resolution - will do for now, and maybe in the future I will find how to fix it.
[22:06:16] <taiden> using their math i started with 120 oz-in design torque and ended up with a 48 oz-in motor at 300 ipm
[22:06:24] <taiden> (i'm using a 20mm ballscrew)
[22:08:16] <taiden> granted my pulses per second are reaaaaly low due to the 20mm ballscrew
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[22:09:30] <taiden> but i'm designing for 50 lb cutting forces with a 20mm ballscrew and my design torque keeps coming up 120 oz-in, it seems really low. And then according to gecko I can run my machine at 750 ipm and meet me 50 lb cutting force requirement
[22:10:59] <taiden> and assuming a worse case 70% efficiency under microstepping I still have a torque safety factor of n=1.866
[22:11:19] <taiden> i just cannot believe that a little 320 oz-in stepper motor can really do all that work
[22:15:49] <renesis> 320 oz is like 20lbs, and the screw ups it a bit, shrug
[22:17:34] <taiden> it's true
[22:17:52] <taiden> it looks like i'll be contouring at 1000ipm in a week or so
[22:17:58] <taiden> surface contouring***
[22:18:10] <taiden> to be fair it is a tiny machine
[22:18:28] <taiden> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/1404802_10202961599860596_6181779933418001917_o.jpg
[22:18:36] <renesis> wowo @ 1000ipm
[22:19:01] <renesis> neat
[22:19:30] <renesis> does table have more Y support?
[22:20:00] <taiden> nope, nsk whitepapers show this to be very rigid. Hopefully it will perform as such
[22:20:33] <taiden> it's a dual carriage NSK MCM08
[22:20:36] <taiden> on the X and Y
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[22:20:48] <taiden> with 15.5" throw
[22:22:18] <taiden> the frame is overkill at 2x4x1/8" tubing... but i have it lying around so i might as well use it
[22:25:21] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:43:04] <LeelooMinai> http://i.imgur.com/2kyHnky.png <- what are those units? inch, mm, cm, feet? :)
[22:43:39] <PCW> machine units
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[22:44:55] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, so I guess mm
[22:45:39] <LeelooMinai> Should be to the right of every field, imho
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[22:52:11] <renesis> leeloominai: depends how you drives are scaled
[22:52:30] <renesis> machine doesnt care, just does so many pulses for a unit
[22:52:50] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but GUI knows that, so could display it to the right
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[22:54:02] <PCW> file a bug report :-)
[22:54:10] <PCW> or submit a patch
[22:54:22] <LeelooMinai> It's not a bug - just usability issue
[22:54:48] <LeelooMinai> But if I had to file all of those... they would probably ban me:)
[22:56:28] <PCW> I'm sure cmorely. will take reasonable suggestions for pncconf
[22:58:57] <PCW> hmm the velocity units are specified...
[22:59:58] <LeelooMinai> It also generates wrong config for me: "Brutalisk-6i25-7i76.hal:25: Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-14-not' does not exist"
[23:00:08] <LeelooMinai> This should not really happen imho, ever
[23:03:31] <LeelooMinai> I can see this: [ 4190.452340] hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 014 (P3-11): Encoder #0, pin Index (Input)
[23:03:56] <LeelooMinai> Not sure why I was able to do something invalid in that wizard
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[23:05:44] <LeelooMinai> I used pin 14 but that was from TB6: http://i.imgur.com/3Und4St.png
[23:05:49] * LeelooMinai scratches the head
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[23:07:05] <PCW> "Brutalisk-6i25-7i76.hal:25: Pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-14-not"
[23:07:07] <PCW> is probably expected
[23:07:13] <LeelooMinai> ANd this is in the hal "net min-z <= hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-14-not"
[23:07:51] <LeelooMinai> How is it expected - it's my limit switch:)
[23:08:49] <PCW> its expected sincec the pin wont be there unless the field I/O is on
[23:11:13] <LeelooMinai> I did not see anything about field IO
[23:11:32] <LeelooMinai> In that wizard
[23:11:52] <PCW> not a wizard issue
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[23:12:55] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, sot that message is not about the config but actual hardware?
[23:14:13] * LeelooMinai decides to switch filed power on
[23:14:45] <LeelooMinai> Here
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[23:21:05] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if lunuxcnc does really have to die in such dramatic way in this situation with a cryptic message instead of just saying that some hardware is not on
[23:24:40] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: it says in the pdf
[23:24:46] <zeeshan> to have field i/o power on
[23:24:53] <zeeshan> or hal wont see the pins
[23:24:55] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but that's silly
[23:24:58] <PCW> it probably could say the hardware is not on, at the expense of a more complicated hal file (dont load I/O section until interface is up)
[23:25:48] <LeelooMinai> I mean linuxcnc created some box that looked like something horrible happened, did not even start, and told me that a pin is missing... How it that helping?
[23:26:17] <PCW> that will happen with any hal file error
[23:27:06] <PCW> it gives the HAL line and the fault. In general what more can it do?
[23:27:11] <LeelooMinai> THat's not good imho - at least if people who are to use this software are not computer science experts:)
[23:27:51] <LeelooMinai> It could start and show which components are offline instead.
[23:28:56] <LeelooMinai> ANd if you connect them, mark as online and look happy.
[23:30:33] <LeelooMinai> I will figure this out eventually, because I am determined, but I bet many people will not.
[23:31:04] <cradek> in normal computer usage, hardware has to be hooked up and on before you start the software that talks to it. you are proposing a very different kind of iterative startup where you can add (and remove?) hardware from the running system.
[23:31:54] <LeelooMinai> cradek: That's not normal in any way. If you have some software that deals with some hardware device and you start it with the device disconnected, it will just wait for you to connect it.
[23:32:24] <LeelooMinai> Also, 5i25 is there...
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[23:32:42] <LeelooMinai> ... so it's not exactly as all was disconnected - just external io board.
[23:33:40] <cradek> your expectations seem unrealistic to me - and I can't tell if you're serious about it, or you are just averse to saying "oops I made a silly mistake, I'll fix it and move on"
[23:33:54] <jdh> I know of nothing that waits for hardware to show up with the possible exception of USB and that has its own issues.
[23:33:56] <LeelooMinai> Right, you may not like me for saying those things, but I am just trying to provide some inpu.
[23:34:06] <LeelooMinai> input*
[23:34:19] <cradek> I neither like nor dislike you
[23:34:32] <LeelooMinai> Or you may think that all I say is some whining, but then do not wonder why people will chooe more freidnly software.
[23:35:25] <cradek> well it's true that I think you're whining, somewhat.
[23:35:40] <zeeshan> its pretty clear inthe pdf
[23:35:44] <zeeshan> to turn on field i/o pdf
[23:35:46] <zeeshan> power
[23:35:50] <LeelooMinai> I am just pointing out things I found unintuitive or affecting usability.
[23:35:50] <jdh> I have written a lot of software that talks to required hardware. The only sane option IMO is to abort when said hardware isn't seen.
[23:35:52] <zeeshan> its even bolded
[23:36:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NhXnKsa.png
[23:36:28] <zeeshan> i was measuring tiny dimples today
[23:36:37] <zeeshan> faking thing has measurement errors th ough
[23:36:46] <jdh> measuring with what?
[23:36:52] <LeelooMinai> PDF you say - but a good test of software/GUI is if you can use it without having to consult documentation to avoid all the traps - especially if well-written software could do something about them.
[23:36:53] <zeeshan> aramis 3d
[23:37:10] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ZGgDoQz.png
[23:37:12] <jdh> what is the hardware for measurement?
[23:37:14] <zeeshan> can you even spot the indent?
[23:37:38] <zeeshan> jdh 2 ccd cameras
[23:37:49] <zeeshan> and a "sophisticated" software
[23:37:52] <jdh> not bad for that.
[23:38:15] <zeeshan> i need to bring the cameras closer
[23:38:18] <zeeshan> and get better focus
[23:38:20] <jdh> we have been testing a 'Gocator' for surface defects
[23:38:24] <zeeshan> <- knows shit about cameras
[23:38:27] <jdh> terrible name
[23:38:49] <zeeshan> that looks like an industrial software
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[23:39:27] <zeeshan> looks nice
[23:39:41] <zeeshan> im currently using a 50mm lense
[23:39:49] <zeeshan> i wonder if a 20mm will make things better
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