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[00:29:19] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Michael Geszkiewicz 052.7 155959d 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.c hostmot2: if sserial realtime link with remote fail, set hal pin reflecting sserial running state to zero * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=155959d
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[01:45:42] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Michael Geszkiewicz 052.7 1d3c769 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.h hostmot2: warning when remote sserial device has firmware version lower than r14. * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d3c769
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[01:51:47] <KGB-linuxcnc> 03Michael Geszkiewicz 052.7 fb177c3 06linuxcnc 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.c 10src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/sserial.h hostmot2: warning when remote sserial device has firmware version lower than r14. * 14http://git.linuxcnc.org/?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb177c3
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[14:20:22] <skunkworks> zlog
[14:20:22] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-01-13.html
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[15:08:10] <seb_kuzminsky> cradek: a user on the forum asked about a limitation in running M-codes with cutter comp on:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/20-g-code/28770-m62-m65-and-m66-cause-error-while-g42-is-on#54917
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[15:08:55] <seb_kuzminsky> the limitation was added in commit e0c96fbe, "merge concave_comp2 branch: new cutter compensation algorithm"
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[15:17:02] <cradek> I think you could add handling of those to the interp queue and flush.
[15:17:32] <cradek> cutter comp has to queue (an arbitrary number of) moves now that inside corners are allowed
[15:17:51] <cradek> so if ccomp is on, you can't just issue these kinds of things when you encounter them
[15:18:11] <cradek> so the answers are 1) disallow, or 2) queue and handle them with the motions
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[15:20:09] <cradek> for these output codes 2) does not seem tricky at all
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[15:35:14] <pcw_home> I was reading a bit about Linux Ethernet drivers and the odd timing issue
[15:35:15] <pcw_home> with the RTK 8111 may just be that Interrupt coalescing is turned on
[15:45:10] <seb_kuzminsky> M62/63 are "set/clear output synched with motion", M64/65 are "set/clear immediately", does that affect anything?
[15:46:29] <seb_kuzminsky> holy indentation, batman
[15:47:30] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, i see, there are separate bits & set/clear macros for the synched-with-motion outputs and the immediate outputs
[15:48:49] <cradek> I don't understand the immediate ones. they are probably stupid.
[15:49:03] <seb_kuzminsky> looks like the synced set/clear goes in the interp_list already
[15:49:59] <seb_kuzminsky> "immediate" also goes on interp_list
[15:51:05] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, there's a flag in the message Task sends to Motion called "now", which differs between them
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[15:53:03] <seb_kuzminsky> the flag's used by Task, not Motion, sorry
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[15:54:12] <seb_kuzminsky> oh, and by Motion
[15:55:15] <seb_kuzminsky> hm ok, so it looks like interp already does option 2 from above, and we should try just removing the check that disallows it
[15:56:09] <seb_kuzminsky> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/task/emccanon.cc;h=ca403037e667f9c7f4a9e6c1435d95ca2fe1bc34;hb=refs/heads/master#l2982
[15:57:08] <cradek> no - interp_queue, not interp_list
[15:57:11] <cradek> bbl
[15:57:19] <seb_kuzminsky> thanks for your help! seeya later
[15:57:45] <seb_kuzminsky> oh man, there is so much i dont know about linuxcnc
[15:59:09] <mozmck> I'm curious why there are 6 joints_axes# branches?
[15:59:24] <seb_kuzminsky> mozmck: they're successive rebases onto master
[15:59:38] <mozmck> What does that mean?
[15:59:41] <seb_kuzminsky> the older ones are kept around for historical reasons, only the latest one (ja6) is live
[15:59:52] <mozmck> They have been merged into master?
[15:59:57] <seb_kuzminsky> there are two ways to combine commits from two branches in git: merge and rebase
[16:00:09] <seb_kuzminsky> we normally use the merge way in linuxcnc
[16:00:18] <seb_kuzminsky> but we're trying out rebase for joints_axes
[16:00:29] <mozmck> ah, and rebase loses history so you keep the old branch?
[16:00:36] <seb_kuzminsky> exactly
[16:00:59] <mozmck> I see. So what does the joints_axes branch do and will it ever be finished and in use?
[16:01:36] <seb_kuzminsky> ja intends to clean up some of the confusion inside linuxcnc between joints and axes
[16:01:53] <seb_kuzminsky> ja6 achieves much of that, but introduces some bugs in the process
[16:02:05] <mozmck> I see.
[16:02:08] <seb_kuzminsky> no one is currently working on fixing those bugs, so development has pretty much stalled
[16:03:08] <mozmck> I'm looking for information on setting up a dual motor gantry, which led to mention of the jaX branches.
[16:03:22] <seb_kuzminsky> yeah
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[16:03:43] <seb_kuzminsky> multi-motor gantries dont work all that great in our main branches
[16:04:10] <mozmck> Is there a good solution for that yet? Sychronized homing and no jogging in free mode?
[16:04:15] <mozmck> hmm.
[16:04:36] <seb_kuzminsky> you can do it, i ran a dual-motor gantry on a 5 foot by 10 foot shopbot with linuxcnc 2.5 a few years ago
[16:04:47] <seb_kuzminsky> it had its quirks for sure
[16:05:04] <mozmck> hmm, quirks are not good for our use case :)
[16:05:26] <seb_kuzminsky> synchronized homing (independent of ja) is started in the branch called cradek/synchronized-homing
[16:05:46] <seb_kuzminsky> i'd be happy to help out if you want to test it & finish it
[16:05:52] <seb_kuzminsky> (i'm not sure what state it's in)
[16:06:28] <seb_kuzminsky> err, the branch is in cradek's repo, not the main git.linuxcnc.org one
[16:06:39] <mozmck> I see that with gantrykins it puts you in free after homing and you have to switch modes to jog.
[16:07:19] <mozmck> Yes, I will need to get something working.
[16:07:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i don't know of a good reason for any machine to stay in free mode after homing
[16:07:34] <mozmck> You mean this one?
[16:07:35] <mozmck> http://timeguy.com/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=log;h=refs/heads/synchronized-homing
[16:07:39] <seb_kuzminsky> yep
[16:08:00] <mozmck> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/gantrykins.9.html
[16:08:43] <mozmck> It also says that World-mode only supports continuous jogging, which is a problem...
[16:09:30] <mozmck> So maybe that's why it goes to joint mode - so you can do incremental jogging?
[16:10:01] <seb_kuzminsky> heh, yeah i added the text about jogging & modes to gantrykins.9 while i was figuring out how to run that shopbot, i guess back in 2011
[16:10:23] <mozmck> I see :)
[16:10:31] <seb_kuzminsky> i wonder how hard it would be to add incremental world-mode jogging
[16:10:43] <mozmck> So can world-mode be changed to allow incremental... you beat me to it!
[16:11:17] <seb_kuzminsky> anything can be done, it just needs someone to do it
[16:12:07] <mozmck> heh!
[16:12:11] <seb_kuzminsky> ;-)
[16:12:18] <mozmck> I might have to start looking into that then here.
[16:16:54] <seb_kuzminsky> cool
[16:16:55] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
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[16:33:16] <cradek> ja has incremental world-mode jogging already
[16:33:36] <cradek> that synchronized-homing does NOT work
[16:34:00] <cradek> it's only interesting if you want to continue developing the idea
[16:34:01] <mozmck> hmm, so what are the bugs in ja then?
[16:34:23] <cradek> I'm not sure, we've done a poor job of keeping track of them :-/
[16:34:29] <mozmck> Well, I definitely need to develop some form of syncronized homing.
[16:34:45] <mozmck> Are the changes in ja pretty large?
[16:34:47] <cradek> it would be awesome if you'd finish it
[16:34:51] <cradek> yes, massive
[16:35:03] <mozmck> Is it something that could be incrementally done in master?
[16:35:11] <cradek> which it?
[16:35:15] <mozmck> the ja changes
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[16:35:28] <cradek> I'm afraid that train has sailed
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[16:36:12] <cradek> I think you could add synchronized homing to master without having ja first, but having ja first would be better
[16:36:26] <mozmck> hmm
[16:36:52] <cradek> ja seemed pretty broken for me when I tried it on a XYZC machine, I think because the valid axes are nonconsecutive. I expect it to be broken in the current condition for XZ lathes too
[16:37:23] <cradek> I don't know how deep that problem is
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[16:37:57] <mozmck> Our customers *mostly* build dual axis gantry machines, and some will be dual axis gantry with a rotary axis as well.
[16:38:06] <cradek> I think ja is actually quite clean - it doesn't have lots of unrelated things stirred together, it's just a big change
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[16:38:41] <cradek> by all means please test and report back
[16:38:45] <mozmck> dual motor I mean.
[16:38:51] <mozmck> test ja?
[16:39:13] <cradek> if you want incremental world mode jogging, yes you have to dive in to ja
[16:39:32] <mozmck> Yes, I'll have to start working on that. I need more time - or to use the time I have more wisely...
[16:39:58] <cradek> if you only want synchronized-ish homing, and you don't have index pulses, you could use various stopgaps that people have done
[16:40:23] <cradek> don't we all. the human condition.
[16:40:45] <mozmck> It is pretty much all stepper or servos using step/dir inputs, and so no index homing.
[16:42:44] <pcw_home> index homing should be possible with step/dir
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[16:43:26] <pcw_home> as long as the index is long enough for linuxcnc to see
[16:44:25] <mozmck> well, in our case I don't think there is an index on the encoders, and not one that gets back to linuxcnc for sure.
[16:44:53] <cradek> software or hardware stepgen?
[16:45:23] <cradek> people using software stepgen and dual home switches can just do some clever/terrible gating of the step signals
[16:45:31] <mozmck> I think hardware only.
[16:46:04] <pcw_home> Yes I was asked If i could add that to our hardware stepgen but its just too ugly
[16:46:15] <cradek> yeah it's sure a wrong solution
[16:46:23] <mozmck> :) Better to fix the software than a hack like that.
[16:46:25] <cradek> but people who don't have a right solution often want those
[16:46:49] <mozmck> I can understand that
[16:47:24] <mozmck> JT put a shaft through his gantry and used one motor, but that is not an option for us.
[16:47:37] <cradek> pcw_home: would you please send me another H-bridge card to replace the one we blew up at fest? it only needs two channels working, in case that helps you pick a junker for me
[16:48:25] <pcw_home> I was just about to ask (we have a bunch of early rev 7I30s with a patch on the back I could send)
[16:48:28] <cradek> oh there's a web store now - I could even just order one
[16:48:50] <pcw_home> if you dont mind ones with wires on the back
[16:49:06] <cradek> bespoke boards are the best kind
[16:50:14] <cradek> mozmck: if you're serious about working on synchronized homing I would happily send you this hardware I've been carrying around for years
[16:50:15] <mozmck> pcw_home: I presume the 7i80 is ready for production use? preempt-rt only?
[16:50:38] <cradek> actually that offer is open to anybody
[16:50:43] <pcw_home> Yes it has about a year of testing now
[16:51:01] <pcw_home> for PP replacement, the 7I92 is a lot cheaper
[16:51:27] <mozmck> cradek: I'm serious about it. what kind of hardware? We have a couple of gantry machines at the shop, but I work mostly from home (~ 3 miles from the shop)
[16:52:44] <mozmck> pcw_home: thanks - I'll look at the 7i92
[16:52:45] <cradek> it's a shoebox (well, boot box) sized thing that has two servos sliding parallel blocks to two home switches, and encoders with index, all run by a blown-up 7i30
[16:53:01] <cradek> it's a pretend servo gantry
[16:54:03] <mozmck> cradek: hmm, do you have a picture? I may be interested!
[16:54:04] <cradek> we were going to cut grooves and then put uncooked spaghetti between the two blocks for a good test
[16:54:13] <cradek> ummm
[16:56:59] <cradek> aha
[16:57:02] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/2010-10-31_17-52-13_194.jpg
[16:57:47] <cradek> except now it's finished and has home switches and an attached driver board
[16:58:19] <cradek> I forgot there were holes for indicators (in case you want to test final alignment)
[16:59:46] <mozmck> I see! Well, I think I better take a stab at it, and that looks like it might be helpful for testing on the bench.
[17:00:26] <cradek> I'll wait for peter's shipment, then get it working, then get it shipped to you
[17:00:34] <kwallace> That HNC looks like mine - clamps holding parts together and used for tooling storage :)
[17:01:04] <cradek> yep like my jogwheel mounting? it's super deluxe.
[17:01:15] <kwallace> :)
[17:02:42] <archivist> it is hard work counting all the clamps on my "grinder"
[17:03:32] <mozmck> cradek: thanks!
[17:05:05] <cradek> mozmck: do you have some mesa fpga card with the 50 pin connector to run it?
[17:05:31] <mozmck> All I have right now is a 7i80DB
[17:05:42] <mozmck> So I guess not.
[17:05:58] <mozmck> what card would I need?
[17:06:00] <cradek> oh yeah, wrong connectors
[17:06:39] <cradek> any of the old ones, 5i20, 7i43 etc
[17:07:21] <cradek> I have a reworked 7i43 seb gave me, but it seemed dead last time I tried it
[17:07:30] <mozmck> ok
[17:07:47] <cradek> let me work on getting it going again
[17:08:30] <cradek> meanwhile you might be able to set up simulation for the non-index part of it and maybe make some progress that way
[17:08:44] <cradek> we have simulated home switches in some of the sim configs already
[17:08:45] <mozmck> ok. now that I think about it, I may have something that would work with a little effort as well.
[17:09:24] <cradek> I only built this because I want all the homing methods, including index, to work, and I don't really know how to simulate that
[17:09:26] <mozmck> I have a partly finished small table, and I think it is a dual stepper motor gantry.
[17:09:35] <mozmck> Oh, yes.
[17:09:53] <cradek> there are so many homing styles!
[17:11:12] <mozmck> pcw_home: I don't see the 7i92 on the webstore
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[17:12:55] <pcw_home> should there by the end of the week
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[17:15:41] <mozmck> ah, ok
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[17:22:30] <cradek> pcw_home: do you know of any problem where the stepgens in a 5i25 develop a problem after a long run-time or on-time? I have seen a hint of a problem (steppers stalling on rapids when running gcode but not when jogging, not fixed by restarting linuxcnc, fixed by reboot) a couple times
[17:23:10] <cradek> but of course I didn't study it, because I had parts I wanted to make
[17:23:24] <pcw_home> Not that I have heard of
[17:23:28] <cradek> and actually I don't know if the steppers stalled (pulses too fast) or if there were no pulses at all
[17:23:35] <cradek> my bug report sucks, sorry
[17:24:19] <cradek> this is 2.6.x with a custom 5i25 firmware tom? built for me
[17:24:33] <pcw_home> stepgen hardware is basically unchanged for several years
[17:25:09] <cradek> I'm still using position mode, not velocity mode as you might be testing more now
[17:25:29] <pcw_home> pulses too fast would likely cause a following error (unless you have wide limits)
[17:25:58] <cradek> yeah it doesn't ferror, I see the cone move, but the machine doesn't
[17:26:50] <cradek> I think it has always been an X or XY move that fails, while Z still works (so it's a very crashy situation)
[17:26:53] <pcw_home> sounds like an interface issue (I would check the step pin with a scope)
[17:27:03] <cradek> yeah clearly I need to stop and debug when it happens next time
[17:27:29] <cradek> I will try hard to do that instead of HULK HAVE PARTS TO MAKE SMASH BUTTONS UNTIL WORKS AGAIN
[17:27:35] <archivist> any backlash compensation?, not sure that follows a good acceleration curve
[17:27:42] <cradek> no backlash
[17:28:07] <cradek> actually I think rebooting did NOT fix it last time, but turning off the pc did
[17:28:20] <cradek> which really makes me think it's a 5i25+firmware problem
[17:28:32] <cradek> but yeah, need to debug
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[17:28:58] <pcw_home> or marginal level problem (thermal)
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[17:29:41] <cradek> or power supply something something
[17:30:11] <pcw_home> yeah need to probe around when its not working
[17:30:11] <cradek> I think my step/dir boards have schmitt trigger inputs, and XYZ are all identical
[17:30:33] <pcw_home> are they HC or HCT?
[17:30:35] <cradek> also it's extremely suspicious that running gcode fails but jogging doesn't seem to fail when it's in this state
[17:30:48] <cradek> pcw_home: I don't know
[17:30:58] <archivist> that could also be a symptom of stepper drivers that auto sleep
[17:31:10] <cradek> they don't sleep
[17:31:23] <pcw_home> HC Schmitt triggers would be marginal with ~3V signals
[17:31:45] <cradek> ah is 5i25 3v outputs?
[17:32:00] <pcw_home> Yes
[17:32:27] <pcw_home> so you might try setting step/dir outputs to open drain mode
[17:33:30] <cradek> hm!
[17:34:35] <cradek> gpio.000 and gpio.001 (??) are open-drain but nothing else is
[17:35:07] <cradek> looks like those are enable and spindle-on
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[19:32:29] <PCW> Ahh one last thing was messing with latency on Preemt-RT: Fan speed control
[19:33:01] <mozmck> oh, interesting!
[19:33:20] <mozmck> Is that a kernel config option or bios?
[19:33:25] <skunkworks> zlog
[19:33:25] <zlog> skunkworks: Log stored at
http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc-devel/2015-01-13.html
[19:33:28] <PCW> BIOs
[19:33:46] <PCW> it looked so innnocent...
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[19:38:36] <skunkworks> was that your long read times?
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[19:39:52] <PCW> not sure yet but have 4KHz running on E8500 for a full day now with no more than 125 usec worst case read time
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[19:40:14] <PCW> not been able to do that before
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[19:48:17] <skunkworks> cool
[19:52:55] <PCW> do have to figure out a way of blacklisting the interface so the network mangler cant touch it
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[20:28:58] <mozmck> what does the network manager do to the interface that is bad?
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[20:38:59] <PCW> if you poke at the network manager icon it pokes at the interfaces ant takes them offline for 100s of ms
[20:39:19] <PCW> not a great thing for real time...
[20:39:36] <mozmck> ah, I see.
[20:41:29] <PCW> especially not great if you are machining something expensive
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