#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-24

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[01:33:26] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: What speed is that?
[01:33:34] <os1r1s> In x/y
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[01:49:05] <Tom_itx> os1r1s, i can't remember what the feed was
[01:49:17] <Tom_itx> maybe 60-80 ipm
[01:49:26] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: That seems quick. Stock leadscrews?
[01:49:35] <os1r1s> Which driver are you using
[01:49:37] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:49:43] <Tom_itx> gecko 203v
[01:49:57] <Tom_itx> no load...
[01:50:12] <os1r1s> I start to get a weird resonance on mine above 40
[01:50:20] <os1r1s> Using a G540
[01:50:51] <os1r1s> Maybe I should push it up to 60-80 and see if it stutters
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[01:56:34] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: This might interest you ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOKeW9JOs_A
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[02:39:26] <Tom_itx> nice but i wonder what it costs
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[02:45:51] <os1r1s> Tom_itx: $700+
[02:48:43] <Tom_L> http://www.cnccat.com/index.php?id=2&productid=1616&catid=89&subcatid=&lang=en
[02:49:38] <Tom_L> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/19659206/affordable-sherline-atc-spindle-head
[02:49:55] <os1r1s> The first one is the spindle that I have
[02:50:11] <os1r1s> But by the time you add sk15 holders, collets, etc, etc it adds up quick
[02:50:27] <Tom_L> http://www.usovo.de/shop/Milling-spindles-accessories/Exchange-spindle-with-tool-changer/UniMill-deluxe-Toolchanger/Toolchanger-Spindle-Sherline-UniMill-the-CoolTool::462.html
[02:50:31] <os1r1s> I wanted a second spindle housing so that I didn't modify the first.
[02:50:55] <Tom_L> the mill is hardly worth all that tooling
[02:51:07] <Tom_L> it would be money better spent on a heavier mill
[02:51:51] <os1r1s> Tom_L: Depends on what you are trying to do. I don't have room for a larger mill at this time. And I want it more automated.
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[03:08:30] <XXCoder1> Tom_itx: interesting
[03:08:36] <XXCoder1> wonder if guy already sent rewards out
[03:12:24] <os1r1s> XXCoder1: He sells those spindles for $900 on his website, dalecnc.com
[03:12:39] <XXCoder1> wow that is awesome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcVv1So1n_8
[03:12:54] <XXCoder1> os1r1s: interesting
[03:13:45] <XXCoder1> it would make for very nice router head
[03:14:10] <XXCoder1> oh my video link? guy used cmm to make copy of object
[03:14:31] <XXCoder1> including soap bottle apparentl
[03:15:28] <XXCoder1> oh it uses regular cnc machine - custom collet with probe wow
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[03:16:37] <XXCoder1> http://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc_digitizing.html
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[03:17:57] <XXCoder1> $4200 for collet probe ouch
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[03:48:29] <furrywolf> hrmm, have I been disconnected for a while? I replied to os1r1s's weird resonance...
[03:48:52] <os1r1s> furrywolf: Did you?
[03:48:55] <os1r1s> I did not see it
[03:49:20] <furrywolf> > weird resonance is a common problem with low-quality drivers.... but don't the geckos have anti-resonance circuitry?
[03:49:41] <os1r1s> furrywolf: It does/should. I'll try to push it higher and see what happens
[03:52:45] <furrywolf> what microstep size are you using? if you have spare step frequency, try increasing it too.
[03:54:15] <os1r1s> furrywolf: The G540 auto adjusts stepping between 1/10 and full
[03:55:43] <furrywolf> hrmm. in that case, who knows. :)
[03:55:47] <os1r1s> I'll try to bump the frequency
[03:56:23] <furrywolf> tell mariss your g540 makes your motors resonate and see what he says. :)
[04:02:42] <furrywolf> on an unrelated note, how much of my e-stop should I implement in hardware? I can do anything from just toggling an input pin, to cutting power to the stepper drivers and spindle..
[04:03:42] <SpeedEvil> furrywolf: Thermite.
[04:03:45] <furrywolf> I finally have a mill big enough to need one... my other one would have a hard time drawing blood if you tried.
[04:03:46] <ve7it> furrywolf, http://members.shaw.ca/SWSTUFF/spindle-encoder.html my shoptask lathe spindle encoder
[04:04:42] <roycroft> i would strongly recomment that you have a big panic button that kills power to everything
[04:04:48] <roycroft> and then hope you never have to use it
[04:05:00] <Tom_itx> mine is 10
[04:05:08] <roycroft> but that's what the 'e' in e-stop means
[04:05:09] <Tom_itx> woops backscroll got me
[04:05:22] <Tom_itx> 10 microstep default on gecko 203v
[04:05:41] <furrywolf> I have a big red mushroom switch... it used to be the emergency quench switch on a mri machine.
[04:05:58] <roycroft> i have a big red mushroom switch on my brewing control panel
[04:06:19] <roycroft> i run 250vac/50a through that panel
[04:06:34] <furrywolf> my mill is probably going to be a letdown for it... it used to cause loud noises and gas clouds and people running, and now all it's going to do is stop a couple motors...
[04:06:37] <roycroft> and that switch kills everything inside the panel from the main power contactor on
[04:06:57] <Tom_itx> furrywolf, maybe it will enjoy the easy life
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[04:08:52] <furrywolf> ve7it: heh, I saw that googling a few months back... hrmm... you have both cnc and an intact threading gearbox?
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[04:43:44] <XXCoder1> https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/mad/4797758660.html
[04:43:47] <XXCoder1> not bad
[04:43:52] <XXCoder1> too bad ober 2 hours drive!
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[04:56:22] <furrywolf> I drive 4:15 each way to pick up a generator a couple weeks ago
[04:56:28] <furrywolf> drove
[04:56:51] <roycroft> i may be heading up to hillsboro on saturday to pick up something else off cl
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[05:06:48] <furrywolf_> I wish there were surplus stores around here... have to drive about five hours to find one.
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[05:08:34] <XXCoder1> yeah
[05:08:42] <XXCoder1> hard to find anything surplus around here
[05:10:22] <roycroft> i've been meaning to check out that surplus place for ages
[05:10:29] <roycroft> they post in cl all the time
[05:11:02] <roycroft> if i go up to hillsboro on saturday i'll probably at least check the place out
[05:11:21] <XXCoder1> yeah they apparently has lots 8020
[05:11:29] <roycroft> and i need some
[05:11:36] <roycroft> although i'm not sure what i need yet
[05:11:38] <XXCoder1> too bad youre not at same side of hillsbnore as me!
[05:11:47] <XXCoder1> im at tacoma
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[05:11:55] <roycroft> yes, i recall
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[05:12:16] <roycroft> i usually take highway 99 up there
[05:12:26] <roycroft> but with all the rain we've had lately i'm not sure - i might have to take i5
[05:12:36] <XXCoder1> I usually use i5 to work but hwy 99 to home
[05:12:40] <roycroft> i hate freeways
[05:13:35] <furrywolf> I don't mind freeways, as long as there's not many other cars on them.
[05:13:49] <roycroft> i prefer country roads
[05:14:02] <furrywolf> I'm a country wolfy. heh.
[05:14:06] <XXCoder1> lol
[05:14:09] <roycroft> the journey is as important as the destination
[05:14:59] <roycroft> i currently drive
[05:15:04] <roycroft> a vw new beetle
[05:15:06] <furrywolf> nah. I'm just a redneck who's at home on a one lane gravel road doing 55. :P
[05:15:17] <XXCoder1> whoa I may finally find a source of 8020 near me
[05:15:17] <roycroft> but i own two aircooled vw buses, one of which is a camper bus
[05:15:20] <XXCoder1> fife isnt bad
[05:15:29] <XXCoder1> I got a soccer mom van
[05:15:32] <roycroft> ebay is pretty close :)
[05:15:33] <XXCoder1> nissan quest
[05:15:41] <furrywolf> roycroft: unless they have subaru engines... :P
[05:15:45] <XXCoder1> roycroft: not according to shipping costs there ouch
[05:16:06] <furrywolf> or you LIKE rebuilds every 10k.... :P
[05:16:24] <roycroft> if you build a good vw engine and drive it right it will last indefinitely
[05:16:31] <XXCoder1> furrywolf: nissian quests pre-1999 is basically immortal
[05:16:46] <XXCoder1> mines at 185,000 miles and still truckin' er I mean vanin;
[05:17:06] <furrywolf> xxcoder: nissans are good. I mean the vws.
[05:17:08] <roycroft> my beetle is at 193k miles
[05:17:12] <roycroft> but it's a tdi
[05:17:20] <roycroft> the engine is finally broken in
[05:17:39] <furrywolf> the busses.
[05:17:52] <furrywolf> a subaru ej22 will make them not suck. :P
[05:18:12] <furrywolf> (as badly)
[05:18:15] <XXCoder1> http://www.grainger.com/category/aluminum-extrusions/structural-framing-systems/material-handling/ecatalog/N-c3qZ1z0qh5v#nav=%2Fcategory%2Faluminum-extrusions%2Fstructural-framing-systems%2Fmaterial-handling%2Fecatalog%2FN-c3qZ1z0qh5vZh9c
[05:18:17] * roycroft likes going *putt putt* down a winding country road
[05:18:36] <XXCoder1> er http://www.grainger.com/category/aluminum-extrusions/structural-framing-systems/material-handling/ecatalog/N-c3q
[05:19:17] * furrywolf likes being able to pass people, go up hills, and drive across the country without planning where to get an engine rebuilt
[05:19:40] <roycroft> oh, you're no fun any more
[05:19:55] <furrywolf> lol
[05:20:21] * SpeedEvil wants a self-driving car.
[05:20:23] <furrywolf> I don't putt putt on country roads. I get places quickly. :)
[05:20:57] <roycroft> http://eugene.craigslist.org/mad/4817657048.html
[05:20:58] <XXCoder1> still wonder if 2010 would be enough for my small router cnc
[05:21:23] <roycroft> if i had a big enough shop for an overhead gantry crane those would be sweet
[05:21:29] <roycroft> $0.31/lb
[05:21:32] <roycroft> pretty good price
[05:22:35] <furrywolf> one of my relatives got a project... it's a bugaroo. it's half '74 super beetle and half '89 subaru, split vertically at the rockers. the floor pan, suspension, drivetrain (4x4!), etc, is all subaru, the visible sheetmetal is all beetle.
[05:23:30] <XXCoder1> roy you know if 8020 - 10 series 2010 beams would be strong enough for small router?
[05:23:45] <XXCoder1> probably prefer 15 series though
[05:23:46] <roycroft> i don't, offhand
[05:24:09] <roycroft> there's a deflection tool on their website you can use to calculate it
[05:24:31] <XXCoder1> I unfortunately dont know how to figure that
[05:24:57] <roycroft> you plug in the numbers
[05:25:08] <roycroft> type of extrusion
[05:25:12] <roycroft> length of span
[05:25:18] <roycroft> load at the ends
[05:25:19] <XXCoder1> yeah that side is simple
[05:25:20] <roycroft> load in the middle
[05:25:31] <XXCoder1> other side is what I have issues - I dont know how to get numbers
[05:25:31] <roycroft> and it will tell you how much the extrusion will sag
[05:28:01] <XXCoder1> http://www.grainger.com/product/80-20-Framing-Extrusion-29NZ80?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/29NZ80_AS01?$smthumb$
[05:30:26] <XXCoder1> in least I found local source!
[05:30:32] <XXCoder1> evenually I will figure what to do
[05:32:27] <furrywolf> I need to figure out what to do about a disk image I'm making... I started it 7 hours ago. it's only been copying at 5-6MB/sec, and it's a 160GB drive. still has 30GB to go. I want to go to bed.
[05:32:55] <XXCoder1> usb?
[05:33:30] <furrywolf> yep
[05:33:44] <XXCoder1> hm probably usb 1,1
[05:33:51] <XXCoder1> old computer?
[05:34:05] <furrywolf> I'm not sure whether the problem is slow write to the usb drive (new 2tb external drive) or slow reads from the internal drive (old 160gb ide)...
[05:34:28] <furrywolf> I know reading off a usb drive managed 22MB/sec.
[05:35:36] <XXCoder1> or mayb trying to read busy drive>
[05:35:55] <furrywolf> system is running off usb key (linuxcnc live, since I had it handy)
[05:38:00] <XXCoder1> might be reason - usb is busy
[05:38:21] <XXCoder1> running os AND copying drive to usb storage, probably same one?
[05:39:59] <furrywolf> linux makes very few accesses just sitting idle.
[05:40:16] <XXCoder1> yeah probably not source of delay
[05:40:34] <furrywolf> and I'm running the os off a usb key on the back of the computer, while copying the image to a hard drive plugged into the side port...
[05:41:15] <XXCoder1> did you test drive speed on those specific usb ports?
[05:41:55] <furrywolf> I used one of them before to read a usb key, did 22MB/sec...
[05:42:15] <XXCoder1> and other one?
[05:43:05] <furrywolf> don't remember, probably used it too at some point.
[05:43:16] <furrywolf> the real problem is I want to go to bed. :P
[05:43:33] <XXCoder1> why cant just leave it chugging along and sleep?
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[05:45:16] <furrywolf> because it's winter with overcast and rainy weather, solar output is crap, and my batteries are low... so the inverter goes off when I go to bed.
[05:45:32] <XXCoder1> you live off grid eh
[05:45:40] <furrywolf> yes
[05:45:42] <XXCoder1> no wind power?
[05:45:45] <furrywolf> no wind
[05:45:51] <roycroft> eat beans
[05:45:52] <roycroft> make wind
[05:45:53] <furrywolf> (valley)
[05:45:57] <XXCoder1> lol
[05:46:18] <XXCoder1> weird idea: make rain power - like wind power but spins by rain lol
[05:46:26] <XXCoder1> probably too weak
[05:46:35] <furrywolf> yes. :P
[05:47:20] <furrywolf> I could just leave the laptop running on battery, but with all the power management disabled (it's a linuxcnc image, after all), it's not going to shut down nicely when the battery goes low...
[05:47:20] <XXCoder1> too bad it cant resume
[05:47:43] <furrywolf> I probably could resume it if I remembered what half the options to dd were. :)
[05:47:58] <furrywolf> (I'm just using dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/img...)
[05:48:03] <XXCoder1> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/44189/resume-interrupted-copying-process ?
[05:48:16] <XXCoder1> its possible!
[05:48:35] <XXCoder1> few options
[05:48:43] <furrywolf> yes, I know it's possible... it'll be skip= or something...
[05:48:53] <XXCoder1> thats one of options
[05:49:04] * furrywolf is mostly just annoyed that it's still going, rather than finishing six hours ago like it should have
[05:49:13] <XXCoder1> lol ok
[05:49:22] <XXCoder1> guess you could just stop it for now or something
[05:49:36] <furrywolf> hrmm, I forgot dd defaulted to tiny blocks... that might be pissing usb off or something.
[05:49:51] <roycroft> that really slows it down
[05:50:08] <roycroft> i like big blocks, like 2MB when i use dd
[05:50:19] <XXCoder1> definitely has to start again with bigger blocks
[05:50:20] <roycroft> 512 byte blocks will take a week
[05:53:45] <furrywolf> roycroft: it presumably won't take a week, since after 7 hours it's at 136/160gb. :P
[05:57:08] <furrywolf> hrmm. I think I'll ctrl-z it, fg ; umount ; sleep 10 ; poweroff...
[05:58:12] <furrywolf> bbl, wolfy bedtime
[05:58:17] <XXCoder1> grep, finger finger poke yes poke poke poke poke make baby :P
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[05:59:48] * furrywolf likes strapons, so prefers lots of mounting, with a wide variety of mountpoints
[06:00:15] <XXCoder1> doh forgot touch part of joke
[06:00:52] <furrywolf> and the mounting. :P
[06:00:58] <XXCoder1> yeah
[06:01:03] <furrywolf> it has to end with a umount too.
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[06:02:02] <furrywolf> and maybe a sleep. :P
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[06:03:44] <furrywolf> speaking of which... bbl, sleep
[06:04:08] <XXCoder1> night
[06:04:13] <XXCoder1> going to sleep too I think
[06:05:40] <furrywolf> cyas
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[08:32:28] <Deejay> moin
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[10:05:23] <mrsun> hmm i wonder ... downcut spiral for mdf maybe? .. even with very sharp tools on upcut when one gets to the core the cut isnt very clean ... very fuzzy on the edges
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[11:31:02] <SpeedEvil> There is also bidirectional spiral
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[12:27:07] <akex> Hi all i test
[12:27:32] <akex> You can see me ?
[12:28:05] <Deejay> yep
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[12:31:01] <akex> Sorry my apps bug
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[12:35:31] <akex2> Ok good
[12:36:11] <akex2> Re hi all, i have a some question for setup my spindle
[12:37:32] <akex2> I have a ac servo for spindle and i want setup 100 step/rev
[12:39:08] <akex2> I created a rotary axis with 0.2777773 scale , because 0.27777*360=100pulse
[12:39:21] <akex2> That right ?
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[12:44:15] <mrsun> SpeedEvil: yes compression but more expensive and i do not require in this case good cut on both sides =)
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[12:51:08] <SpeedEvil> Run the spindle backwards?
[12:51:34] <akex2> Just cw
[12:51:35] <SpeedEvil> Err - no - that won't work very well
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[12:52:10] <akex2> A ok can you explain me the better methode please
[12:53:08] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I have no idea
[12:54:36] <akex2> Ok ok thanks
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[13:43:27] * jthornton can finally draw a square with cairo in a GTK container...
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[14:06:46] <JT_Shop> now to scale and transform the coordinate system to match my lathe
[14:07:14] <Tom_itx> you making a cad cam for your lathe?
[14:08:01] <JT_Shop> yea, the one I was working on the other day, I want to show the material, limits, cut path etc
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[14:34:42] <mazafaka> hey guys what doyou think of hyundai vmc with siemens? are there any super-dper advantages in guideways?
[14:35:58] <JT_Shop> guideways?
[14:36:06] <mazafaka> semi-rising guideways of table, of one axis... does it worth it?
[14:36:58] <JT_Shop> got a link of one, your description is not clear to me
[14:37:06] <mazafaka> 750B
[14:37:21] <JT_Shop> I have two siemens drives and like one and dislike the other
[14:37:31] <mazafaka> HYUNDAI 750B
[14:37:45] <mazafaka> why so?
[14:39:54] <rob_h> maybe he means linear rails
[14:41:12] <mazafaka> the price of this one i two times more, i do not even know why... rigidity needed for steel, and rails must be durable enough for smoothing curvy surfaces of 1200lb blanks
[14:41:25] <rob_h> unless he does mean boxway slides
[14:41:45] <JT_Shop> hi rob_h
[14:41:47] <mazafaka> boxways slides, Yes
[14:42:15] <rob_h> ok yea boxways will carry more weight, will get u to your 500kg area no problem just tend to find lower rapid speeds on thoes machines
[14:42:27] <rob_h> but they go on for ever if looked after with oil etc
[14:42:31] <rob_h> hi JT
[14:43:14] <rob_h> if you want to machine steel need to think about spindle type also... how much HP will you have
[14:43:31] <mazafaka> about 18hp
[14:43:37] * JT_Shop heads to town for some last minute ingredients for tomorrow
[14:43:53] <rob_h> at what speed ranges
[14:44:07] <mazafaka> up to 700rpm
[14:44:42] <rob_h> so about a 15kw spindle motor?
[14:44:48] <mazafaka> siemens drive can do more
[14:45:03] <rob_h> hate siemens my self
[14:45:14] <mazafaka> yeah, wait, 18kw and 25 or so hp
[14:45:55] <rob_h> yea so it should drive big drills and 50mm face mills or bigger and do a nice DOC and rip steel off all day long
[14:46:01] <rob_h> and not vibrate all over the place
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[14:46:44] <rob_h> ask to see it running, and if so can you do some test cuts on it. it will show u if there are any problems with it also
[14:46:47] <mazafaka> thaiwan manufscturers offer cheaper vmcs
[14:47:23] <rob_h> nowt wrong with most thaiwan machines, not the quality end anyway
[14:48:09] <mazafaka> we buy it using special tendering procedure and did much to reject cheaper offers from thaiwan
[14:48:11] <rob_h> only thing it might need is new springs/washers in the drawbar in the spindle to hold the tools in as they do wear, we replace them every so offten does not take long
[14:50:35] <mazafaka> rob_h: you have some? i will appear here more often from pc...
[14:51:14] <rob_h> have hyundai
[14:51:14] <rob_h> no
[14:51:25] <rob_h> Leadwells and dahli in VMC
[14:51:44] <rob_h> dahlih ^
[14:51:57] <rob_h> dahlih has a gearbox tho makes a world of differance
[14:52:25] <mazafaka> but boxways durability is equal for all machines or those brand ones are quite better?
[14:53:18] <mazafaka> gearbox on spindle? i thought it is generally for steel/aluminum "switching"
[14:53:32] <rob_h> from what iv seen pritty much equal on all for boxway due to how it works
[14:53:51] <rob_h> when you go to rails, that is where it seems to matter more, ie, what size they fit and type
[14:54:11] <rob_h> now days you want to have something with the new roller type rails as they will carry heavy loads and not wear as heavy
[14:54:41] <rob_h> yea has 2 speed, so 0-1500 gear 1, then gear 2 is upto 4000
[14:54:42] <mazafaka> all offered designs were so equal, i only wondered of material qualiyy...
[14:55:55] <rob_h> well there are some fabricated machines out there which im sure you know that they will be like
[14:55:58] <mazafaka> linear bearings of kqfo, for example, were in a category of mqchinee w8th less lowd on table wnd less axis travels
[14:57:37] <rob_h> also we noted most new machins to get good Y travel you need to be a 1m X travel or so
[14:57:37] <mazafaka> oh, okwillsee.iwillappearheremoreoften, hate everithing laking normal keyboard
[14:57:44] <rob_h> and most seem to be short Ys
[14:57:45] <furrywolf> so far looking online I've found the exact same breakout board I have with three different brands of capacitors... yay china.
[14:58:42] <mazafaka> weneed about 1600mm x-travel, y-travel of 700mm up to 900mm sounds ok, tqctually it is 900mm in this size
[14:59:02] <rob_h> like with any VMC control just depends how good service is in your area,
[14:59:20] <rob_h> for us Mitsubishi in the UK realy sucks and is costly. Fanuc is cheap and easy to get fixed by many
[14:59:31] <rob_h> siemens again not so common so is costly
[15:00:25] <rob_h> sounds a nice machine, if you want todo 3D stuff caan it hack doing it is the only other thing to ask
[15:00:42] <rob_h> is it a new machine you are looking at
[15:01:28] <mazafaka> siemens was chosen because there's a shop wit laces - g3orgs and kdt, yeah, n3w machine
[15:01:48] <rob_h> o nice so should be quite nice
[15:02:11] <rob_h> i know alot here do like siemens but they program alot on the machine so use its dxf converter etc
[15:02:16] <rob_h> but we program offline 90%
[15:02:41] <mazafaka> i fear first self-made programs wil be incorrect, and i myself have only lim8ted time to verify them
[15:02:42] <rob_h> only turning we tend to program online realy saying that as much quicker
[15:03:18] <rob_h> we make alot of mold tools so alot of code generation
[15:03:21] <mazafaka> we have hard 3d model, only offline programming
[15:03:53] <mazafaka> yeah, something like a mold, too
[15:04:22] <rob_h> all our lathes are on linuxcnc now :) apart from the citizen
[15:05:08] <mazafaka> original detail is precise and smooth casting, and import, we need to mill it out of the blank
[15:05:52] <rob_h> make lots of chips then :)
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[15:06:21] <rob_h> got to pop out for abit, back later
[15:06:24] <mazafaka> yeah, v3ry complicated form
[15:06:33] <mazafaka> ok buy
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[15:20:11] <furrywolf> is it important that the e-stop switch have a separate input pin, or can I make it, in addition to directly killing the spindle and stepper power, just trip the limit switch input?
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[15:52:20] <jdh> the e-stop switch should remove power by itself. Informing linuxcnc via a pin is just a nicety
[15:52:23] <jdh> IMO
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[16:02:51] <furrywolf> so in other words, yes, it'll be fine to just trip the limit switch pin. :)
[16:02:56] <furrywolf> bbl, time for work
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[16:15:12] <roycroft> if you just trip the limit switch pin then linuxcnc will have no idea what happened
[16:15:26] <roycroft> that may not matter to you
[16:25:20] <jdh> you might be able to recover with a good machine? But in that case, you have plenty of inputs for e-stop
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[16:30:48] <XXCoder1> roy he left
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[16:44:32] <Dumbdude> Hi all. Could someone please offer any help with a homemade cnc lathe build? I need to figure out the electonics and components involved esspecially for thread cutting and spindle timing.
[16:46:41] <jdh> motors, drivers, spindle, spindle encoder, linuxcnc
[16:47:18] <Jymmm> This is kinda a nice shop/machine light... http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70169694/
[16:47:26] <Dumbdude> I have been looking at some little controller boards by the name of arduino. I thought I might be able to run the steppers via that to the pc.
[16:47:36] <jdh> no
[16:48:36] <jdh> ^^ succinct.
[16:48:50] <Dumbdude> Otherwise there are some kits you can get on ebay that include steppers and driver units with a power supply bundled together. I dont know if that is going to work with linuxcnc?
[16:48:58] <jdh> yes
[16:49:17] <Dumbdude> Those will work jdh? yeah?
[16:49:32] <jdh> yes
[16:49:36] <_methods> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[16:49:46] <jdh> though you might pick a specific set and confirm.
[16:50:09] <jdh> as long as they are not USB, they will almost certainly work. With differing degress of goodness
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[16:50:31] <Dumbdude> Ok. Another guy told me I need a dc servo motor for the spindle. That would be a seperate kit?
[16:51:02] <Dumbdude> That would require a different driver and board and power supply?
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[16:51:09] <jdh> yes, but you can use pretty much any motor that can be speed controlled. Servo would be nice, but not required
[16:52:24] <Dumbdude> The other thing that is baking my noodle is how I am going to get the spindle encoder in timing with the z axis for cutting threads. That is probably going to be my biggest hurdle.
[16:52:45] <jdh> it isn't a hurdle. Linuxcnc takes care of it. You just need a spindle encoder
[16:53:08] <Dumbdude> Where does the encoder plug in though?
[16:53:13] <Dumbdude> Direct into the pc?
[16:53:28] <jdh> depending on encoder type, sure.
[16:54:58] <Dumbdude> It would be some kind of rotary encoder. I will need one on all axis's to prevent step loss and loss of position.
[16:55:33] <Dumbdude> They all have to plug in somewhere.
[16:58:36] <Dumbdude> The other obstacle is I dont have a pc with a parallel port. I do need that right?
[16:58:56] <jdh> yes. or some mesa
[16:59:28] <Dumbdude> Mesa? ...what dat?
[17:00:16] <jdh> mesanet.com
[17:00:19] <_methods> you really need to take a look at that supported hardware link i posted
[17:00:24] <jdh> yes.
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[17:00:37] <_methods> if you're building your own lathe you also need to probably read the integrators manual
[17:00:41] <jdh> and research other peoples builds to see what is done
[17:00:42] <Dumbdude> Ok. Will take the supported list seriously.
[17:01:06] <Dumbdude> Where can I check out some cool lathe builds??
[17:03:03] <Dumbdude> Intergrators manual. I need to be able to run a "closed loop" for thread cutting.
[17:03:09] <jdh> cnczone, practicalmachinist
[17:03:14] <jdh> linuxcnc forums
[17:03:58] <Dumbdude> I still need to learn all this stuff. First I need to make sure I dont buy the wrong steepers of drivers for the build. That is the mail thing at the moment.
[17:04:23] <jdh> I'd start with the mechanicals
[17:04:27] <_methods> ^^
[17:04:34] <_methods> the electrics is the easy part
[17:04:53] <Dumbdude> Lol...the electrics is the hard part for me.
[17:05:10] <Dumbdude> I have the mechanicals drawn on a napkin lol
[17:07:17] <Dumbdude> Those PCI driver boards look tempting. I have a PCI slot but no parallel port.
[17:07:37] <Dumbdude> Then I wont have to get another PC
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[17:09:15] <Dumbdude> What is really bothering me is where the encoders plug in.
[17:09:37] <jdh> you can do not-so-speedy encoders via parallel port
[17:09:46] <jdh> or any encoder via mesa
[17:10:44] <Dumbdude> Mesa is the pci board yeah. Um, so I can plug an encoder or two into that mesa pci board??
[17:10:57] <jdh> yes, via a daughterboard.
[17:11:14] <jdh> see 5i25+7i76 combo kit thing. Like $199
[17:11:16] <Dumbdude> daughterboard?? What dat?
[17:11:21] <jdh> (for steppers)
[17:11:46] <Dumbdude> Combo kit comes with daughter and all?
[17:11:53] <jdh> yes
[17:11:57] <Dumbdude> kewl
[17:12:53] <jdh> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=215
[17:12:57] <Dumbdude> This one yeah? - 5i25, PCI (low-profile) 2x25 IO pins on a DB25, expanding to 96 or more with daughter cards
[17:13:00] <jdh> buy 5, get the discount, send me one.
[17:13:29] <_methods> hahah
[17:13:31] <Dumbdude> Sure if I dont need it. I only need 2 axis and 1 spindle.
[17:14:20] <jdh> you can do that with a $10 parallel port
[17:15:21] <jdh> see the supported hardware link above
[17:15:21] <Dumbdude> My machine has no parallel. Oh...like a pci parallel card you mean??
[17:15:45] <jdh> yep.
[17:16:21] <jdh> download the linuxcnc LiveImage, boot it, run the latency test and make sure your PC is suitable.
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[17:17:20] <Dumbdude> Ok. Let me get this right in my head. Correct me where I go wrong. I buy a pci/parallel port card. Then I buy...um....what then?
[17:17:49] <Dumbdude> So then I have a parallel port...ok
[17:17:55] <jdh> steppers, stepper drivers, PSU, p-port breakout board if needed
[17:18:16] <Dumbdude> what is a p-port?
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[17:18:25] <jdh> parallel port
[17:18:35] <Jymmm> parallel port = p-port = paraport
[17:18:40] <Dumbdude> Ah...ok
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[17:18:57] <Dumbdude> Why would I need a breakout board?
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[17:19:28] <Jymmm> Computers don't liek to control 120VAC
[17:19:31] <jdh> makes life eaiser
[17:19:31] <Jymmm> directly
[17:19:42] <Jymmm> they blow up
[17:19:51] <_methods> i've done that before
[17:20:00] <Jymmm> lol
[17:20:40] <Dumbdude> Ok. Breakout boards are gooood.
[17:21:22] <Dumbdude> ...but like, for instance I could use this parallel card? ...its nice and cheap - http://www.google.co.uk/aclk?sa=L&ai=C-v25vfWaVP-9OIKH7gba54GgBNKVipwF2o_O4rwB2uy8-JoCCAkQASDezc8eKA1gu66zg9AKyAEHqQJqhNJczQ-6PqoEJ0_QpF3eSmzORSlsUosHoEmleeh7axwAEvWQ1iXWm73UvYxHpNJrbMAFBaAGJoAH4qXjHIgHAZAHAqgHpr4b4BL076mRtOKe26oB&sig=AOD64_3MXbPfwrQEbvgmzd4CAodeZrwOFA&ctype=5&rct=j&q=&ved=0CHkQ2CkwAA&adurl=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-134428-4
[17:21:29] <jdh> short urls are good too
[17:22:10] <Jymmm> so are VALID urls =)
[17:22:18] <jdh> yeah, ugly and bad....
[17:22:47] <Jymmm> I dont mind fugly, just make it valid
[17:23:09] <Dumbdude> Sorry...I mean this one - http://www.dealsmachine.com/best_198287.html?currency=GBP&gclid=CjwKEAiA5emkBRCT_JL9p77IyF8SJADpztPyumgPd8-FwhrEy4w2QVWCx-FQTOTgh80O8NFoaQl09hoCKSvw_wcB
[17:23:17] <Dumbdude> Does that work?
[17:24:06] <Dumbdude> Surely one paralel port card is the same as the next one?
[17:24:25] <roycroft> feel free to tell yourself that
[17:25:03] <_methods> once again if you'd like your project to work with the least issues refer to the supported hardware list
[17:25:14] <_methods> other people have done all the hard work for you
[17:25:18] <Dumbdude> Ok. So I don't want to go rock bottom on the parallel card.
[17:25:21] <_methods> all you have to do is read some words
[17:25:58] <Dumbdude> Maybe its better to just get the 199 dollar mesa kit then.
[17:27:37] <Dumbdude> It seems according to the hardware list I can use most motors and drivers as long as the use "step and direction2 input signals. Ok. Thats clear.
[17:27:40] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: the new mesas ar only 100$
[17:27:46] <MarkusBec> 6i25
[17:28:08] <MarkusBec> pcie with 2 standart sub-d26 connectors
[17:28:14] <Dumbdude> Is it?...I will check that out.
[17:28:41] <MarkusBec> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=6i25&product_id=58
[17:28:49] <Dumbdude> What about motors and drivers? Something of good value...not total rubish.
[17:29:09] <_methods> well you get what you pay for usually
[17:29:14] <MarkusBec> steper or servo?
[17:30:04] <MarkusBec> the generic chines stepper set are ok
[17:30:05] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.de/itm/must-buy-3Axis-CNC-Nema-23-Wantai-Stepper-Motor-270oz-in-from-Germany-/221603348585?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item339896c069
[17:30:23] <MarkusBec> for small routers
[17:30:35] <Dumbdude> I will use steppers on x and z, then maybe a dc servo on the chuck spindle?
[17:30:36] <_methods> i use chinese junk all the time for my home hobby stuff
[17:30:51] <MarkusBec> there are all based on the toschiba chip
[17:31:03] <Dumbdude> A lathe spindle is way heavier than anything on a router.
[17:31:58] <Dumbdude> Mark, that card does not include the other bit with the driver terminals on it.
[17:32:57] <MarkusBec> hm?
[17:34:04] <Dumbdude> Yeah...for 199 dollars you get the other end thingy bit with the cable....you know?
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[17:35:49] <MarkusBec> ah
[17:35:56] <MarkusBec> ok
[17:36:48] <Dumbdude> Why is ther 2 sections with PCI cards in the requirments list??
[17:37:28] <Dumbdude> PCI EPP card....whats that?
[17:37:46] <Dumbdude> I dont want that right?
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[17:40:20] <Dumbdude> That MESA combo board says "plug and go". It really means that does it? ....or will I have to download stuff for it and end up writing scripts etc? I really dont want to travel the road of writing code for cards.
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[17:42:57] <Dumbdude> This kit is even cheaper. Why not this one instead of the 199 dollar one? - http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=83_84&product_id=216
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[17:45:26] <Dumbdude> The mesa kits range from 129 to 259 dollars but I am failing to see the differences other than the part numbers.
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[17:48:03] <PetefromTn_> Merry Christmas Everyone!!
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[17:48:44] <Dumbdude> Merry merry Petey!
[17:48:55] <PetefromTn_> You too man
[17:48:59] <Dumbdude> Kewl
[17:49:05] <PetefromTn_> OH and you can't go wrong with Mesanet
[17:49:23] <Dumbdude> It looks like good product yeah
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[17:49:52] <PetefromTn_> It doing a fine job running my Cincinatti VMC so far and it has lots of nice options for I/o
[17:50:07] <Dumbdude> The site lacks a bit of detail about the products though
[17:50:49] <Dumbdude> Apparently the encoders go into the Measa card. That much I know now....lol
[17:50:57] <PetefromTn_> well the best thing about that is that Pete from Mesa is in here all the time it seems to help answer your questions.
[17:51:21] <PetefromTn_> I am running the 5i25/7i77 combo with closed loop AC servos and encoders
[17:51:25] <Dumbdude> Are you from Mesa?? you pete right?
[17:51:57] <PetefromTn_> nope I am another Pete just a happy customer
[17:52:24] <PetefromTn_> you are looking for PCW or pcw-home
[17:52:28] <Dumbdude> Do you know the diffences between the cheaper and more expensive kits?
[17:52:44] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to do?
[17:53:17] <Dumbdude> I just want to run 2 axis's and a spindle for a metal cnc lathe with thread cutting ability.
[17:53:29] <PetefromTn_> steppers or servos
[17:53:34] <Dumbdude> So the spindle will need to be timed to the z axis#
[17:53:58] <Dumbdude> 2 steppers and one dc servo on the spindle
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[17:54:16] <PetefromTn_> Hm
[17:54:27] <Dumbdude> Can do yeah?
[17:54:29] <PetefromTn_> I dunno what he would recommend about the spindle servo
[17:54:35] <PetefromTn_> I am sure it can be done
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[17:54:58] <Dumbdude> Is the mesa board for both servo and stepper?
[17:55:02] <PetefromTn_> for the stepper based system I would run the 5i25/7i76 card from what I gather
[17:55:08] <cradek> do you need spindle positioning? usually an ac motor and vfd makes a fine spindle.
[17:55:42] <Dumbdude> Yeah...well the z axis needs to be timed with the spindle so as to cut screw threads
[17:55:58] <cradek> you don't need a servo for that
[17:56:18] <Dumbdude> ...you cant have the tool entering a thread in the wrong position if that makes any sense.
[17:56:22] <cradek> don't go all backwards and choose parts before you know what you need
[17:56:37] <cradek> yes I understand threading :-)
[17:57:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah Cradek knows what he is talking about for sure LOL
[17:57:08] <Dumbdude> Steppers I dont think are going to be good for a lathe chuck spinning at 3000 rpm
[17:57:36] <Dumbdude> Dont forget a lathe chuck is heavy heavy heavy as well.
[17:57:45] <PetefromTn_> what size lathe?
[17:57:49] <cradek> what lathe is this?
[17:58:08] <_methods> it's a napkin lathe
[17:58:57] <Dumbdude> Well....Its not to big, but the chuck will probably weigh in at around 500g to 1 kg and need to turn at 2500rpm minimum.
[17:59:17] <Dumbdude> It will also need to stop and start fairly quickly.
[17:59:35] <Dumbdude> So yeah....maybe not a stepper on the spindle?
[17:59:42] <cradek> so it's like a sherline?
[17:59:58] <cradek> no you don't use a stepper on the spindle, good grief
[18:00:16] <cradek> bbl
[18:00:33] <Dumbdude> Its not a sherline. It will be a scratch built machine on steroids lol
[18:00:59] <Dumbdude> Sherline's cannot natively cut threads. Thats what put me off buying one.
[18:01:09] <XXCoder1> sterroids give your lkathe case of roids
[18:01:21] <_methods> hemorrhoids
[18:01:28] <PetefromTn_> Dumbdude You can easily run your spindle with a VFD and AC motor and the 5i25/7i76 combo and have an encoder or aperture wheel and some optical sensors on the spindle
[18:01:53] <PetefromTn_> and that will give you full threading capability as well as constant surface speed
[18:02:16] <Dumbdude> Is that going to be cheaper than a dc servo Pete?
[18:02:45] <PetefromTn_> dpends on the DC servo and controller you get I suppose
[18:02:47] <os1r1s> Dumbdude: You can cut threads on a sherline with a threadmill
[18:03:03] <PetefromTn_> small aC motors are relatively cheap as are small HP vfd's
[18:03:16] <os1r1s> (On the mill). Or add a index sensor and do it on the lathe.
[18:04:00] <Dumbdude> The Sherline does not have a spindle encoder which rules out threading unless it is fairly heavily modded. Not only that, but they are way overpriced.
[18:04:09] <CaptHindsight> according to reprap dogma it needs to be done with a nema17 stepper anything else is overbuilt and a ripoff :)
[18:04:28] <os1r1s> Dumbdude: Mill or lathe?
[18:04:40] <Dumbdude> ...and over engineered for that matter.
[18:05:33] <Dumbdude> I am going to investigate your idea Pete. Excuse my ignorance but what is a VHD?
[18:05:50] <Dumbdude> ....sorry. VFD
[18:06:04] <CaptHindsight> Variable frequency drive
[18:06:16] <Dumbdude> Ah...right.
[18:06:30] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive
[18:06:53] <LeelooMinai> Dumbdude: It basically allows controlling output AC frequency
[18:07:29] <LeelooMinai> Dumbdude: And effectively speed of AC motors
[18:07:31] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ-QZ54wHso
[18:07:43] <CaptHindsight> http://www.vfds.com/blog/what-is-a-vfd
[18:08:35] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLSeoLLyzJs as heard through a tin can
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[18:09:10] <Dumbdude> I will have to go that route if I cant run a dc servo and steppers from the mesa combo card. I dont see why all options should not be viable. I just dont want to have a seperate card for the spindle. The less components involved in the build the better.
[18:09:54] <CaptHindsight> yes, it depends on your budget, the bargains you find, desire and engineering skills
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[18:22:12] <Dumbdude> I had my cord cut. :-(
[18:22:53] <Dumbdude> I cant remember what I was saying now...hm
[18:23:23] <PetefromTn_> Dumbdude Like I said I am not certain that you cannot run the servo and steppers on the same mesanet card. Pete would be able to advise you better. He may or may not be available today tho since it is Christmas Eve.
[18:23:57] <PetefromTn_> Honestly I would be surprised if there was not a way to do it as it seems there is a mesanet option for about any sort of configuration
[18:23:58] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: you dont need a stepper or dc servo vor the spindle
[18:23:59] <Dumbdude> What is his channel name Pete?
[18:24:15] <MarkusBec> only a vfd and a encoder for the main motor
[18:24:38] <PetefromTn_> like I said before his name is PCW or pcw_home
[18:25:05] <gonzo_> there are binaries called SVST, that seem to have both. (If you are talking aboyt FPGA cards and HM)
[18:25:10] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: the differec 6o25 => PCIe
[18:25:16] <MarkusBec> 5i25 PCI
[18:25:32] <PetefromTn_> or you can call them on Monday and ask them personally they are very nice and helpful and I dare say that you will be hard pressed to find anyone with more knowledge about motion control than those guys.
[18:26:25] <Dumbdude> Its a complex subject. I know bitterly little about it.
[18:26:43] <Dumbdude> I have been turning handwheels manualy for 20 years.
[18:26:46] <MarkusBec> for an easy start
[18:26:59] <MarkusBec> use components with step dir input
[18:27:18] <MarkusBec> and a 7i78 wit a 5i25 or a 6i25
[18:27:26] <MarkusBec> 5i25 for pci
[18:27:32] <MarkusBec> 6i25 for pcie
[18:28:02] <MarkusBec> you can direkt connect yout stepper/servos with step dir input
[18:28:23] <Dumbdude> I was wondering how the commercial cnc lathes are kitted out? What motors for which axis's? Might be good to follow the typical commercial example.
[18:28:40] <MarkusBec> and a VFD vor your spindle motor and the encoder connected to you spindle
[18:29:06] <MarkusBec> for
[18:29:57] <Dumbdude> I have a feeling you are right. Steppers on the x and z. Then the vfd and ac on the spindle.
[18:29:58] <MarkusBec> in commercial mashines the spindle motor ist not a servo motor
[18:30:04] <PetefromTn_> I have a small commercial type lathe I will be doing here soon and it will most likely be 5i25/7i77 combo (already have it here) and AC closed loop servos and an AC spindle motor with VFD
[18:30:11] <MarkusBec> it is a asyncron 3 phase motor
[18:30:13] <MarkusBec> wiht cfd
[18:30:16] <MarkusBec> vfd
[18:31:28] <Dumbdude> I think those mesa cards only deal with step / direction commands. How that is going to connect to a vhd I dont really know.
[18:31:40] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: differens 7i77 and 7i78 is that the 7i77 has a port expander
[18:31:58] <MarkusBec> its a litle microcontroller supported by the fpga FW
[18:32:09] <PetefromTn_> Dumbdude the 7i77 can do more than step and direction
[18:32:34] <Dumbdude> Ok. So I need that model.
[18:32:35] <PetefromTn_> the VFD is usually controlled via a 0-10v setup or via modbus control like my Cincinatti
[18:32:36] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: 7i77 and 7i78 hav a 0-10V output vor a vfd
[18:32:45] <MarkusBec> for
[18:33:00] <PetefromTn_> actually you probably want the 7i76 which is made for steppers as I recall
[18:33:10] <Dumbdude> Why do I have a feeling that configuring all of this in the software is going to be the nightmare from hell?
[18:33:29] <MarkusBec> 7i76
[18:33:30] <MarkusBec> sorry
[18:33:35] <MarkusBec> not 7o78
[18:33:37] <MarkusBec> i
[18:33:40] <PetefromTn_> actually with Stepconf and the mesa cards it is pretty simple to do two axes and spindle
[18:34:12] <Dumbdude> How often are you in this chat room Pete?
[18:34:15] <PetefromTn_> it is not really until you start doing crazy stuff like toolchangers and other things more complicated that you need to get a little help here
[18:34:22] <PetefromTn_> too much LOL
[18:34:31] <MarkusBec> we never go out :P
[18:34:33] <Dumbdude> Brilliant.
[18:34:49] <PetefromTn_> I am NOT an expert whatsoever but there are some experts here..
[18:34:58] <Dumbdude> I have no plans to make a rotary tool turret.
[18:35:08] <PetefromTn_> Damn....I DO LOL
[18:35:30] <Dumbdude> I am going to line all my tools up on the axis in a neat row and index on the cross slide.
[18:35:38] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: 7i76 is a nice card for you
[18:35:41] <PetefromTn_> Gang tool?
[18:35:50] <MarkusBec> it can do all what you want
[18:36:00] <Dumbdude> Yep. Gang tools. :-)
[18:36:07] <PetefromTn_> nice what lathe is it?
[18:36:16] <PetefromTn_> Oh you said it is a homebuilt
[18:36:31] <Dumbdude> Its going to be made from scratch. Home made.
[18:36:36] <PetefromTn_> Sweet
[18:37:20] <Dumbdude> I will get in touch with Mesa personally to make sure I am getting the right products.
[18:37:24] <PetefromTn_> One nice thing about the mesanet cards for steppers is apparently they use hardare based step generation on the cards so the PC does not have to do all the heavy lifting which gives you the ability to generate more speed sometimes depending on your setup.
[18:37:49] <PetefromTn_> Good idea or like I said wait for PCW to pop in here and ask him he would be able to advise you best.
[18:37:55] <Dumbdude> I must just decide on the spindle setup. I am leaning heavily toward the vfd though.
[18:38:31] <PetefromTn_> that is what I will be doing. I would LOVE a big servo spindle motor but the cost would be many times more for the 7.5HP I am wanting
[18:39:12] <Dumbdude> Whatever happens, I want this machine to be nimble and quick.
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[18:40:02] <PetefromTn_> that will depend heavily on your motor choices and ballscrew pitch as well as the weight and rigidity of the machine itself. But yeah that would be a good result
[18:40:15] <Dumbdude> I see so many guys post videos on youtube and the lathe is using purely steppers, has no encoders, and it is like a clambering dinosaur. I dont want that.
[18:40:31] <PetefromTn_> Keep in mind that Steppers have a specific speed and power torque curve
[18:40:44] <PetefromTn_> Bigger is often NOt better believe it or not
[18:41:22] <PetefromTn_> You really need to calculate what kind of speed and torque you want in the machine axes and choose the motors and screws based on those numbers.
[18:41:28] <MarkusBec> Dumbdude: if you have no expiriene with servos it is often fustratiing
[18:41:37] <Dumbdude> Not sure if I can afford ball screws. I have another plan though to remove the backlash.
[18:41:39] <MarkusBec> it can take weeks to tune the servos
[18:42:02] <PetefromTn_> Also keep in mind that a lot of machines shown on youtube often depict someone who JUST got their machine working so they are often relucatant to crank up the speeds etc..
[18:42:03] <MarkusBec> but you can buy hybrid 3 phase steppers
[18:42:16] <MarkusBec> or servo sets wits step dir inbut
[18:42:19] <MarkusBec> input
[18:42:36] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.de/itm/CNC-Leadshine-Closed-Loop-Hybrid-Servosteuerung-Kit-HBS57-Driver-Servomotor-/281445247927?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item418771abb7
[18:42:41] <MarkusBec> hybrid servos stepper
[18:42:51] <PetefromTn_> We tuned my servos in about an hour or two...I am sure they are not perfect but they work great so far.
[18:43:04] <MarkusBec> http://www.ebay.de/itm/400W-AC-servo-driver-Servosteuerung-AC-Servomotor-CNC-KIT-Router-Mill-Plasma/301142109811?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117130753%26meid%3Df45e2d0a650f4175b88f0defaa7ba06b%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140117130753%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D281445247927&rt=nc
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[18:43:19] <MarkusBec> PetefromTn_: I have a mashine
[18:43:40] <PetefromTn_> mashine?
[18:43:56] <MarkusBec> after 2 yeas we gave up to tune out the resonance
[18:44:42] <Dumbdude> Well, my x znd z axis's are going to be on standard M10 high tesile threaded rods. lol. Thats the plan anyway. I might be forced to upgrade to ball screws further down the line.
[18:45:08] <MarkusBec> m10?
[18:45:10] <MarkusBec> lol
[18:45:21] <Dumbdude> Its not a big machine.
[18:45:23] <MarkusBec> that will not work at all
[18:45:38] <Dumbdude> It will work. Trust me.
[18:45:41] <PetefromTn_> If you are wanting any real speed and accuracy you are going to want to get some ballscrews. They are relatively cheap nowadays especially for just two axes.
[18:46:14] <Dumbdude> The prices I was looking at were horrific.
[18:46:18] <MarkusBec> or at least trapeze
[18:46:37] <PetefromTn_> checkout that linearmotionbearing guy on Ebay
[18:46:51] <PetefromTn_> what do you call horrific?
[18:47:09] <Dumbdude> £100 for one screw.
[18:47:27] <Dumbdude> Remember, this is a mini lathe.
[18:47:58] <Dumbdude> x and z stroke is only about 200mm each.
[18:48:01] <PetefromTn_> you should be able to get both screws and ballnuts from him for around a hundred bucks US for a small lathe I would imagine
[18:48:24] <Dumbdude> I will check that out right now.
[18:49:48] <Dumbdude> how do I find this guys profile??
[18:50:17] <PetefromTn_> http://stores.ebay.com/linearmotionbearings/
[18:50:32] <Dumbdude> Thanth
[18:51:02] <malcom2073> Keep in mind, mose of those are single start low pitch. If you want high speed, you need multi-start higher pitch screws.
[18:51:30] <malcom2073> Depeing on how much speed ya want :P
[18:52:16] <malcom2073> I could never find a cheap source of multi-start screws
[18:52:22] <PetefromTn_> honestly with just over 7" of travel a single start screw with a decent stepper will be pretty damn fast
[18:52:22] <roycroft> if you use a belt drive connection from the motor to the screw you can get pretty high speeds with the 5mm pitch screws
[18:52:36] <roycroft> you just gear it appropriately
[18:52:49] <Dumbdude> This looks pretty good: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-anti-backlash-ballscrew-RM1605-190mm-C7-CNC-XYZ-/250584609879?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a5801b457
[18:53:07] <Dumbdude> Couple of those would do the trick. Good price to.
[18:53:08] <roycroft> and i'll put in a positive wort for the lineramotionbearings guy
[18:53:13] <PetefromTn_> They sell pairs too
[18:53:15] <roycroft> good prices, good product, and good service
[18:53:31] <malcom2073> Are the ebay ballscrews/SBR's any good?
[18:53:36] <PetefromTn_> they will also machine them for you to your specs for a little bit more cost which might be very worth it for you.
[18:53:53] <PetefromTn_> but you must contact him and ask him about it.
[18:53:54] <roycroft> they're good for what you pay for them
[18:54:16] <malcom2073> Heh
[18:54:33] <roycroft> if you need super high precision be prepared to pay 5-10x as much for american made precision ground screws
[18:54:45] <malcom2073> YEah
[18:54:54] <roycroft> but rolled chinese screws work well for average applications
[18:55:22] <PetefromTn_> this guy is talking about a home built relativley inexpensive machine here
[18:55:29] <roycroft> yes
[18:55:34] <roycroft> that's what i figured
[18:55:42] <Dumbdude> While we are discussing ball screws Pete, do you know where we could get cheap linear bearings? Not the round rod type but the sort of ground flat type?
[18:56:01] <roycroft> but asking if the ebay chinese screws are "any good" warranted my answer, i think
[18:56:11] <roycroft> they're definitely good enough for any router
[18:56:14] <PetefromTn_> well depending on what you want ebay is a good source for the chinese stuff...
[18:56:20] <roycroft> and good enough for most lathe/mill applications
[18:57:21] <Dumbdude> Some linear bearings would reduce friction rather nicely especially with a gang tool setup.
[18:57:25] <roycroft> they're almost overkill for a plasma cutter - acme screws are fine for that
[18:58:06] <Dumbdude> Only problem with linear bearings is once they are worn, they are worn. No adjustment.
[18:58:44] <PetefromTn_> Dumbdude There have been several well built homebuilt CNC slant bed lathes made using this type of equipment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1IDHIcyHLY
[18:58:48] <Dumbdude> So its a case of buy cheap and replace when they are knackered.
[18:59:15] <PetefromTn_> sure but if they are well lubricated they will probably outlast you on a hobby based machine.
[19:01:16] <Dumbdude> I have seen that guys vid. Thats a nice scratchbuilt machine.
[19:01:52] <Dumbdude> I would say to him that the spindle is to loud for risk of getting a foot up my arse...lol
[19:02:49] <Dumbdude> I want to try and run my spindle motor dirent without any belting.
[19:03:03] <Dumbdude> *direct.
[19:04:05] <jdh> why
[19:04:07] <PetefromTn_> You can do that but there is something to be said about a belt drive and the ability to adjust gearing ratio as well as the belt drive sometimes gives a better surface finish to the parts.
[19:04:43] <Dumbdude> I am thinking about a flexible coupling of some sort.
[19:05:00] <Dumbdude> The less bearings in the machine the better.
[19:05:27] <Dumbdude> Less friction, less noise, less wear, less money.
[19:05:31] <Dumbdude> You get the idea.
[19:05:52] <Dumbdude> Less belting, no pulleys
[19:06:09] <Dumbdude> and the list of advantages goes on
[19:06:18] <jdh> I woudl disagree
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[19:06:58] <Dumbdude> Do tell.
[19:07:00] <jdh> and I don't see fewer bearings?
[19:07:09] <PetefromTn_> I would argue that for a small tabletop shop built CNC lathe the way that video shows the machine setup is about perfect
[19:07:09] <roycroft> my router project is on hold due to other issues, but belt drive has always been my plan
[19:07:54] <jdh> pete: that would be pretty cool... nice tooling also
[19:08:39] <Dumbdude> Belts are antiquated the way I see it. Pre electronic servo relics that are doomed to extinction.
[19:08:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah that guys machine is extremely nice for a home built. The toolchanger is top notch best I have ever seen personally on youtube. I do wonder how well it would cut steel and aluminum tho..
[19:09:10] <jdh> belts offer many advantages and are cheap.
[19:09:14] <PetefromTn_> I disagree in general
[19:09:35] <PetefromTn_> it is true that most modern machinery are moving to direct drive high performance motors
[19:09:49] <Dumbdude> Why put a belt in a place it is not needed?
[19:10:16] <PetefromTn_> but there is something to be said for the smoothness of a good belt drive as well as the ability to have multiple gear ratios.
[19:10:43] <roycroft> not to mention more flexibility in motor mounting locations
[19:10:48] <Dumbdude> If you get your direct drive set up properly you could get the same results.
[19:11:47] <roycroft> which is a consideration of mine
[19:11:53] <PetefromTn_> think about that machine we just watched. if the spindle motor was direct drive the cabinet would need to be about a foot longer to house it.
[19:12:24] <roycroft> exactly, petefromtn_
[19:12:44] <roycroft> i don't think anyone here is advocating always using belt drive setups
[19:12:49] <PetefromTn_> and of course the motor mounting needs to be much more precise to avoid vibrations and misalignment issues which cause wear in a direct driven coupler
[19:12:57] <roycroft> just that they should not be dismissed as an option
[19:13:18] <Dumbdude> Either way it needs to be housed. Wether it is housed above or below it still takes up the same amount of space. Minus the room for housing belting of course.
[19:13:58] <PetefromTn_> if it is direct drive it must be inline not above or below
[19:14:00] <roycroft> if it's being housed in space that's already consumed the overall footprint of the machine can be smaller
[19:14:24] <PetefromTn_> MOST lathes use a belt drive setup of some sort
[19:14:38] <PetefromTn_> often housing the spindle motor underneath in the cabinet
[19:14:41] <Dumbdude> Yes. That is the tradition.
[19:14:56] <PetefromTn_> my Standard modern has it below in a special place protected from the coolant area
[19:15:35] * roycroft is beginning to think that some folks choose apt nicks on irc
[19:15:42] <PetefromTn_> again not saying you CAN'T do it just that each way has advantages and disadvantages
[19:16:25] <Jymmm> roycroft: ?
[19:16:35] <Dumbdude> The ideal would be to have the motor mounted on the spinle shaft between the two main bearings. That would require a special motor.
[19:16:49] <PetefromTn_> LOL or a nice belt drive
[19:17:05] <Dumbdude> Yeah. Hm.
[19:17:18] <PetefromTn_> Timing belt drive is rather nice like my Cincinatti Arrow 500 spindle
[19:17:24] <roycroft> the ideal would be whatever works best for your particular application
[19:17:47] <PetefromTn_> it has two rather LARGE timing belts
[19:18:07] <roycroft> to claim that there is one ideal motor drive configuration for all applications is nave at best
[19:18:08] <PetefromTn_> my Standard Modern Lathe has a triple Vee belt drive
[19:18:56] <PetefromTn_> A lot of the larger costlier CNC turning centers have a very powerful and precise servo motor direct driven spindle
[19:19:22] <PetefromTn_> especially those with live tooling which is needed for accurate positioning
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[19:23:17] <Dumbdude> Well....the motor actually IS the headstock lol
[19:23:39] <XXCoder1> you guys use tablesaw?
[19:23:49] <XXCoder1> if so, how do you guys ensure that fence is parallel?
[19:23:59] <PetefromTn_> I have thousands of hours on a tablesaw why?
[19:24:37] <roycroft> 1. use a good fence
[19:24:42] <roycroft> 2. adjust it until it's parallel
[19:24:43] <roycroft> :)
[19:24:46] <XXCoder1> lol
[19:24:54] <PetefromTn_> usually just measure between the front and back of the blade to the fence
[19:24:58] <XXCoder1> I do need to get something on rail so I can use dial
[19:25:01] <roycroft> that's how i get it close
[19:25:05] <_methods> if you have a shitty fence you can clamp the far side
[19:25:22] <PetefromTn_> They actually make ground plates that go in place of the blade that you can measure more accurately...
[19:25:40] <XXCoder1> cool. I plan to try make some jig
[19:25:41] <roycroft> if you use a biesemeyer-style fence it's pretty easy to adjust it parallel and keep it that way
[19:25:46] <XXCoder1> so its easy to make stright cuts.
[19:26:22] <PetefromTn_> what are you trying to cut?
[19:26:28] <PetefromTn_> rips or crosscuts?
[19:26:44] <XXCoder1> just figuring stuff out. I should be working on my router parts
[19:26:55] <XXCoder1> but if I make crappy quality parts it wont eeven get together right
[19:27:01] <roycroft> use a sled for crosscuts
[19:27:09] <PetefromTn_> Personally I love using my custom built cross scut sled
[19:27:12] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[19:27:23] <roycroft> now adjusting the tee-slots so they're parallel with the blade is a whole other story
[19:27:42] <roycroft> hopefully it's a problem you never have to deal with
[19:27:50] <XXCoder1> lol yea
[19:27:59] <roycroft> especially if only one of the tee-slots is out of parallel
[19:28:08] <PetefromTn_> almost every saw worth its salt has the ability to adjust the yoke to align with the slots...
[19:28:22] <roycroft> yes, but that's usually a lot tricker than adjusting the fence
[19:28:28] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:28:39] <roycroft> and my experience has been that as you tighten the adjustment bolts it moves
[19:28:48] <roycroft> so you have to overcompensate
[19:28:50] <PetefromTn_> LOL of course
[19:29:37] <roycroft> i have that problem with the vice on my bandsaw
[19:29:48] <roycroft> it's the next task for me to tackle in tuning that thing up
[19:29:55] <PetefromTn_> which bandsaw
[19:29:59] <roycroft> 7x12
[19:30:03] <PetefromTn_> Oh I love mine..
[19:30:18] <roycroft> yes, my 7x12 is like 10x the band saw that my old 4x6 was
[19:30:19] <PetefromTn_> Beats the shiznit out of the 4x6 I used to have...
[19:30:48] <PetefromTn_> I want to do a mod I did to my 4x6 on it tho at some point actually several mods
[19:31:07] <PetefromTn_> the most useful was to move the pivot point of the fixed jaw of the vise closer to the blade
[19:31:11] <roycroft> right now i set the angle, tighten down the bolts most of the way, then use a dead blow hammer to tap it back to the angle i need
[19:31:14] <roycroft> tighten a little more
[19:31:19] <roycroft> tap tap tap again
[19:31:26] <roycroft> repeat that 3-4 times until it's tight enough
[19:31:40] <PetefromTn_> you might have a little taper to the casting at the point
[19:31:48] <roycroft> yes
[19:31:54] <PetefromTn_> or you can add a big fender washer and a locking washer
[19:32:02] <roycroft> i'm going to take the jaw off and mill it flat
[19:32:11] <roycroft> and use a thick washer on the locking bolt
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[19:32:20] <roycroft> there's a thin washer now that's getting bent a little
[19:32:29] <roycroft> a nice thick grade 8 washer should take care of that
[19:32:40] <PetefromTn_> Another thing I did was to drill and tap the fixed jaw for a thick threaded rod.
[19:32:58] <roycroft> plus the light milling - both the pivot hole and the slots are just painted over rough castings
[19:33:04] <PetefromTn_> that you can use to adjust the parallelism of the vise to hold short pieces without the movable jaw twisting
[19:33:12] <roycroft> i haven't done that yet
[19:33:15] <roycroft> but it's on the list
[19:33:32] <PetefromTn_> Also I made a nice longer stop rod already
[19:33:32] <roycroft> i've had this saw for like 4 years now, and just got around to making a table for vertical use last weekend
[19:33:42] <roycroft> it was missing the table and collant system when i bought it
[19:33:56] <roycroft> yeah, i have a couple stop rods of different lengths
[19:33:56] <PetefromTn_> mine was missing the gas strut
[19:33:59] <roycroft> made out of threaded rod
[19:34:14] <PetefromTn_> mine are smooth rods and I use the original stop setup.
[19:34:25] <roycroft> i have a bunch of cuts to make at 22.5 degrees this weekend
[19:34:42] <roycroft> i'm going to rig some kind of stop plate to do the repeated cuts at an angle
[19:34:54] <roycroft> i haven't figured out how i'm going to do that yet
[19:34:55] <PetefromTn_> I like to use my small machinist protractor to set the angle
[19:35:10] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbvs_4zf26w nice
[19:35:12] <roycroft> well i mostly set 45 degree and 90 degree angles
[19:35:18] <PetefromTn_> I often c clamp stop blocks to the jaws of the vise
[19:35:20] <roycroft> and i have machinst's squares at both of those angles
[19:35:31] <roycroft> actually, to cut 45s i have to set it to 135 degrees
[19:35:37] <roycroft> so i use both a 90 and a 45 for that
[19:36:18] <roycroft> i paid $230, i think, for the saw
[19:36:25] <roycroft> it was an open box one at hf
[19:36:34] <roycroft> which means they cannibalized a few parts off of it
[19:36:43] <roycroft> i sold my 4x6 for $125
[19:36:48] <roycroft> so i did pretty well :)
[19:36:53] <PetefromTn_> It really is a great little saw I have used much larger commercial saws which are of course nicer but for what I do this is pretty sweet.
[19:37:02] <roycroft> but the very first thing i did was order a real blade for it
[19:37:20] <roycroft> well i could have spent $3500 on a wilton 7x12
[19:37:26] <roycroft> or even more on an even bigger one
[19:37:29] <roycroft> but this is a home shop
[19:37:33] <PetefromTn_> I bought mine for a couple hundred too used..
[19:38:08] <roycroft> the 4x6 was so frustrating i even got an abrasive saw for cutting tubing and small stock
[19:38:10] <roycroft> and i hated that thing
[19:38:19] <roycroft> dirty, noisy, overall nasty thing
[19:38:25] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:38:37] <roycroft> my 4x6 was a jet - it was decent for what it was
[19:38:41] <PetefromTn_> but the new slow speed carbide bladed ones are nice actually
[19:38:42] <roycroft> but what it was was not much
[19:39:04] <roycroft> i haven't used one
[19:39:18] <roycroft> it would probably be faster than the bandsaw
[19:39:20] <PetefromTn_> mine was an HF model and while I got it to work pretty well it was not even half the saw this one is even after tons of modifications.
[19:39:31] <roycroft> but i don't have to tend the bandsaw
[19:39:41] <roycroft> i start a cut, and go do something else until it's finished
[19:40:11] <PetefromTn_> I think it would be cool to build a power feed unit with a pneumatic clamp setup for this saw
[19:40:11] <roycroft> well the 7x12 gave me dead square cuts from the moment i got it
[19:40:23] <Dumbdude> Well....if that was dinner, I've had it. It went down real quick n quiet, just the way I like it.
[19:40:56] <PetefromTn_> Christmas Dinner was quick and quiet? You
[19:41:05] <PetefromTn_> you're doing it wrong LOL
[19:41:08] <Dumbdude> Pfffft!
[19:42:07] <roycroft> that would be cool
[19:42:22] <roycroft> sounds like liquid dinner to me
[19:42:34] <roycroft> except liquid dinner is usually followed by belches
[19:42:36] <roycroft> so not so quiet
[19:42:42] <Dumbdude> Only cooldrink here my good man.
[19:43:22] <Dumbdude> Alcohol serves no constructive purpose. Its about as useful as a belt drive.
[19:43:30] <roycroft> i'm a brewer
[19:43:31] <Dumbdude> ;-)
[19:43:40] <roycroft> so be very careful what you say about refreshing beverages :)
[19:44:10] <Dumbdude> You are making me tremble now.
[19:44:35] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.de/itm/400W-AC-servo-driver-Servosteuerung-AC-Servomotor-CNC-KIT-Router-Mill-Plasma/301142109811?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140117130753%26meid%3Df45e2d0a650f4175b88f0defaa7ba06b%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140117130753%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D281445247927&rt=nc
[19:44:49] <PetefromTn_> That is actually an interesting servo setup
[19:45:00] <PetefromTn_> I will need at least 750 watt servos tho.
[19:47:49] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/FREE-SHIPPING-AS80-750W-2-39-7-1Nm-AC-Servo-Motors-and-driver-AS80-30-024E25-/281519356806?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item418bdc7b86
[19:49:23] <Dumbdude> Thes vfd's are all about £100. I wonder how much the motor will cost.
[19:49:35] <zeeshan> im so lazy
[19:49:38] <zeeshan> i need some more 22awg wire
[19:49:47] <zeeshan> but dont feel like driving 30 min for it :(
[19:49:54] <zeeshan> and its christmas eve, so shits closing early
[19:50:01] <Dumbdude> Do vfd's work with any ac motor?
[19:50:08] <archivist> no
[19:50:11] <Dumbdude> As long as the voltage is the same?
[19:50:23] <archivist> only 3 phase motors
[19:50:52] <Dumbdude> Oh....right
[19:51:25] <Dumbdude> How am I going to run a 3 phase motor in my flat??? lol
[19:51:36] <roycroft> get a 3 phase converter
[19:51:53] <Dumbdude> Oh ffs. How much does that cost?
[19:51:56] <zeeshan> vfd
[19:52:18] <PetefromTn_> the VFD converts single phase to three phase and gives you speed control
[19:52:20] <cradek> you don't need 3 phase for a lathe you can lift by yourself
[19:52:31] <roycroft> you can get a big single phase motor and a smaller 3 phase motor and connect them with sheaves and a v-belt
[19:52:42] <roycroft> you'd need some kind of clutch mechanism for that
[19:52:47] <roycroft> so you can't do it direct drive
[19:53:10] <PetefromTn_> what HP and speed motor do you need?
[19:53:44] <Dumbdude> Ok. So it will work with a 220v standard supply. Woo Hoo!. Theres a bit of Christmas cheer for you.
[19:54:18] <Dumbdude> So does this vhd have a ramp up?
[19:54:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah a lot of benchtop machines run three phase motors via single phase input VFD's some even run on 120vac depending on the HP required.
[19:54:45] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean ramp up?
[19:55:11] <Dumbdude> I dont know. How many HP do I need for a 160mm diameter 4 jaw chuck?
[19:55:28] <Tom_itx> ramp up = get up to speed
[19:55:35] <Tom_itx> in that case i think
[19:55:44] <PetefromTn_> For instance my RF45 used a 3hp 3phase inverter duty motor and a TECO 3hp sensorless vector drive to good effect.
[19:56:10] <PetefromTn_> most of these VFD's are quite configurable for speed and acceleration/decelleration etc. etc.
[19:56:18] <Dumbdude> Well, most lathes have a clutch to start up. I suppose I could just increase speed in the program incrementaly.
[19:56:58] <PetefromTn_> do you plan to add a clutch?
[19:57:13] <Dumbdude> It wont need a ramp up really. There is no gearing that can smash.
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[19:57:41] <Dumbdude> No. No clutch, no ramp.
[19:57:58] <Dumbdude> How many hp do I need for a 160mm chuck?
[19:58:30] <Dumbdude> I can only work in newton meters
[19:58:59] <PetefromTn_> for a six inch four jaw chuck and the ability to make decent cuts in steel assuming you build the whole machine rigid enough I would say at least 3hp or so.
[19:59:28] <cradek> earlier you said your chuck would weigh 500 grams
[19:59:36] <cradek> that's no six inch chuck
[19:59:43] <PetefromTn_> I know I saw that too
[19:59:50] <Tom_itx> plastic?
[19:59:54] <cradek> this is weird
[19:59:56] <Dumbdude> I am thinking between 20-30nm of torque would be more than enough.
[20:00:25] <_methods> it's probably that shaun434 guy
[20:00:35] <Dumbdude> I said 500g to 1000g actually.
[20:00:44] <cradek> ok still
[20:00:49] <cradek> have you ever held a 6" chuck?
[20:00:53] <roycroft> the grizzly i'm looking at is only 2hp
[20:00:59] <Tom_itx> they weigh more than that for sure
[20:01:12] <_methods> the jaws weigh more than that lol
[20:01:14] <Dumbdude> How much do think a 160mm chuck weighs? 5 kg? Dont be silly.
[20:01:18] <PetefromTn_> a six inch chuck probaby weighs over ten pounds easily.
[20:01:42] <Dumbdude> I work with chucks all day.
[20:01:48] <PetefromTn_> so do I
[20:01:49] <Tom_itx> drop it on your toe if you don't believe us
[20:01:52] <cradek> factors of 10 are important in ... machine design
[20:02:02] <_methods> lol the ole toe test
[20:02:08] <roycroft> closer to 20 lbs, i should think
[20:02:20] <Tom_itx> that sounds more realistic
[20:02:27] <roycroft> chucks are heavier than they look
[20:02:29] <PetefromTn_> I did say EASILY
[20:02:34] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[20:02:35] <_methods> very much so
[20:03:15] <roycroft> yeah, i just saw three different 6" 4 jaw chucks online and they all claim to weigh 17 lbs
[20:03:30] <_methods> http://kitagawa.com/wp-content/uploads/Chuck-Catalog_2013s.pdf
[20:03:35] <roycroft> an 8" is 28 lbs
[20:03:55] <roycroft> a 15" is 230 lbs
[20:03:56] <Dumbdude> I work with really big 12" 4 jaws, maybe that is why I dont realize.
[20:04:29] <Tom_itx> i'd consider that medium size
[20:04:35] <roycroft> 12" 3 jaw is 108 lbs
[20:04:48] <PetefromTn_> wow is that all?
[20:04:51] <Dumbdude> Cant be. I lift a 12" 4 jaw manually alone into my machine at work. There is no way I am hauling 200lbs.
[20:05:05] <roycroft> you use a gantry crane to mof those around
[20:05:12] <roycroft> move
[20:05:37] <Dumbdude> Its easier to do it manually by the time I get the gantry in position.#
[20:05:44] <_methods> why would you be lifting a 12" chuck "all day"
[20:06:01] <_methods> i rarely have to change a chuck
[20:06:07] <PetefromTn_> Kinda surprising you are asking these kinds of questions if you have lathe experience using chucks that large...
[20:06:14] <Dumbdude> Well, not all day, but once in a while I need to change chucks for whatever reason.
[20:06:21] <Tom_itx> use a 4 jaw and you'll likely never have to change it
[20:06:24] <Dumbdude> Its part of the job.
[20:06:29] <_methods> exactly
[20:06:38] <_methods> i put the 3 jaw in the 4 jaw
[20:06:43] <Dumbdude> I dont use 3 jaws anymore.
[20:06:46] <_methods> that way when i need the 4 jaw i just pul the 3 jaw
[20:06:47] <roycroft> a production shop is better served with one lathe having a 3 jaw and one having a 4 jaw than swapping chucks all the time
[20:07:01] <Dumbdude> I used to when I was a young man. Cant stand them anymore.
[20:07:06] <PetefromTn_> interesting
[20:07:37] <PetefromTn_> in the two shops I worked in they mostly used hydraulic three jaws with removable machinable jaws for almost everything.
[20:07:38] <roycroft> because it's faster to set up to turn between centers with a 4 jaw than a 3 jaw?
[20:07:39] <Dumbdude> Yeah, well they make them removeable for a reason done they?
[20:07:42] <XXCoder1> whats diff between 3 and 4 jaw (besides count)
[20:07:50] <_methods> dialing jobs in
[20:07:53] <_methods> or odd shaped stuff
[20:08:04] <roycroft> or offset boring
[20:08:05] <XXCoder1> interesting
[20:08:14] <_methods> 3 jaw is typically a "self-centering" chuck
[20:08:15] <cradek> 3 jaws are self-centering except they invariably suck at it, so a 4 jaw lets you center painstakingly by hand
[20:08:23] <Dumbdude> The main difference is a 3 jaw can let go of the work and take your head off.
[20:08:34] <roycroft> a good 3 jaw will center to about 0.003" or less
[20:08:50] <cradek> roycroft: for the first week? haha
[20:08:51] <roycroft> if you can handle that tolerance then use it
[20:09:19] <roycroft> if you're turning between centers mount your head center, turn it true, and bob's your uncle
[20:09:35] <PetefromTn_> Hey Uncle BOB!
[20:09:47] <malcom2073> I don't have an uncle bob :/
[20:09:49] <malcom2073> I do have an uncle sam
[20:09:50] <roycroft> or you can mount the work in a 4 jaw and take the time to dial it in perfectly
[20:09:59] <roycroft> turning a center true takes about 30 seconds
[20:10:08] <XXCoder1> it comes down to tol I guess
[20:10:19] <Dumbdude> A 4 jaw never lets go.
[20:10:36] <roycroft> it comes down to what is appropriate for the task at hand
[20:10:39] <Dumbdude> Would you drive your car without a roll cage and seatbelt?
[20:10:58] <roycroft> and not about absolute rules
[20:11:20] <Connor> I like collets.
[20:11:25] <roycroft> i'm sorry, but using a 4 jaw 100% of the time is just silly and a waste of time
[20:11:39] <roycroft> collets are groovy
[20:11:46] <_methods> ^^
[20:12:02] <CaptHindsight> did anyones Santa come early this year?
[20:12:19] <Tom_itx> i was bad this year
[20:12:21] <roycroft> i got an insulated ss growler the other day
[20:12:29] <PetefromTn_> LOL yeah I got a little 5C collet closer and a nice set of Collets LOL
[20:12:39] <Dumbdude> It depends on what you are doing. When the workpiece is large enough to remove a part of your body, use a 4 jaw. You know what I mean?
[20:12:53] <roycroft> so first of all you said you always use a 4 jaw
[20:12:58] <roycroft> now you say it depends on what you are doing
[20:13:02] <_methods> we run shit that will steam roll you all day and we use 3 jaws.......
[20:13:04] <roycroft> which is what i said from the start
[20:13:05] <_methods> on our 20' lathe
[20:13:10] <_methods> with a 3 jaw
[20:13:27] <Dumbdude> No. I am saying for YOU a 4 jaw is pointless.
[20:13:45] <_methods> it depends on the job
[20:13:53] <Dumbdude> What part of that is unclear to you?
[20:13:58] <Tom_itx> well apparently they both have uses or they wouldn't exhist
[20:14:00] <roycroft> that seems to be an unacceptable answer to dumbdude
[20:14:08] <roycroft> i see a pattern here
[20:14:20] <Tom_itx> seems to be turning into an argument of taste
[20:14:34] <PetefromTn_> personally I loved my three jaw and seldom used the four jaw for much unless I needed to really dial stuff in tight... Most of the parts I make get machined completely so dialing it in perfect is not much of a concern
[20:14:37] <roycroft> "this is the one solution. you must force it to fit every application"
[20:14:48] <Dumbdude> Roycraft has some kind of issue.
[20:14:57] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, our cnc had hydraulic jaws too with machineable fingers
[20:15:01] <Tom_itx> was nice
[20:15:21] <_methods> i like the collet pad jaws
[20:15:27] <_methods> that fit on 3 jaw normal chucks
[20:15:30] <PetefromTn_> yeah for my new CNC lathe I plan to buy a nice three jaw with removable jaws and make replaceable jaws for everything
[20:15:36] <_methods> they're like poor mans collet chuck
[20:15:43] <PetefromTn_> that too..
[20:15:46] <roycroft> i can turn a shaft perfectly round with a 3 jaw
[20:15:54] <PetefromTn_> but I will be adding a collet setup as well.
[20:16:01] <roycroft> i can't remove it and reinstall it on the lathe and have it still run true
[20:16:18] <roycroft> but if i do all the machining without removing it i can do it just as well with a 3 jaw as with a 4 jaw
[20:16:29] <PetefromTn_> of course
[20:17:02] <roycroft> so i fail to see how a 4 jaw can be inherently superior to a 3 jaw in every application
[20:17:13] <PetefromTn_> honestly this is all common knowledge for anyone who has any real time running a lathe. Each material holding method has its uses and none is better than any other.
[20:17:14] <roycroft> it has the drawback of taking longer to set up the work
[20:17:29] <roycroft> thus the waste of time i discussed earlier
[20:17:31] <Tom_itx> then you should use a 3 jaw
[20:17:35] <roycroft> and time = money
[20:17:36] <Dumbdude> You notice as well that the teeth on a 4 jaw are generally finer so they give more "bite" on the work.
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[20:18:17] <PetefromTn_> that depends largely on the four jaw.... Mine was just the opposite
[20:18:47] <Dumbdude> Some of them have similar teeth to a 3 jaw.
[20:19:00] <PetefromTn_> I really want to try to get also a nice pneumo or hydro 5c collet closer for the lathe too at some point
[20:19:54] <Dumbdude> Oh, like a bar feeder?
[20:19:54] <PetefromTn_> Well about to get ready to sit down to Christmas Eve dinner here folks. Have a great evening and I will pop back in here when I can. Merry Christmas everyone.
[20:20:12] <roycroft> happy holidays
[20:20:13] <_methods> merry xmas
[20:20:57] <Dumbdude> Well, that's killed the conversation.
[20:21:19] <roycroft> probably for the best
[20:21:33] <Dumbdude> Why is that roycroft?
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[20:23:56] <Tom_itx> because discussions seldom change opinions
[20:25:50] <Dumbdude> Yeah. I dont know. It became this whole thing about, what was it? ...chucks or something?
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[20:28:33] <Dumbdude> I was not disagreeing with anyone really. I was just saying for what I do, I prefer a 4 jaw. If I had to do repeat work with smaller parts I would swop the machine to a 3 jaw because the other machine in the shop that has a 3 jaw is wreck.
[20:29:29] <Dumbdude> I get way better accuracy on the dean smith and grace than on the battered colechester.
[20:30:47] <Dumbdude> The other option I have is to put a smaller 3 jaw in the 12" 4 jaw. That saves a complete change of the heavy chucks and saves a bit of time.
[20:31:32] <mrsun> its facinating to see how carbide cuts hardened steel =)
[20:33:59] <Dumbdude> Do you struggle with that much?
[20:34:27] <Dumbdude> I can remember having some epic battles with hardened items in the workshop.
[20:34:44] <mrsun> nah looking at oxtools screw extractor video =)
[20:35:19] <Dumbdude> If you grind a tip to a sharp point and turn the speed way down you can make headway though.
[20:35:20] <mrsun> tho ive cut some hardened grubb screws .. was cutting with hss first (before i knew they were hardened) and thought "why the hell isnt the flat getting bigger ... " well .. parts of the endmill was gone .. put in a carbide and it cut it like butter =)
[20:36:03] <Dumbdude> Maybe the hss was inferior quality?
[20:36:22] <mrsun> might be .. but grubscrews are very hard ive noticed :P
[20:36:54] <Dumbdude> Try cutting some stainless with the hss and see how you get on.
[20:37:11] <Dumbdude> Myabe it will wear quickly.
[20:37:58] <Dumbdude> I havent come across hardened grubs yet. Maybe they were qunched somehow??
[20:38:19] <mrsun> dont know .. or set screws maybe its called
[20:38:23] <mrsun> grub might be old name
[20:40:27] <Tom_itx> we used to machine tungsten
[20:41:47] <Tom_itx> i cut 304 just fine on my little lathe
[20:43:22] <Tom_itx> i should go out and machine something... it's fairly nice out today
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[20:44:20] <Dumbdude> All the old men call them grubs now.
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[20:44:30] <Tom_itx> well they are
[20:44:46] <Dumbdude> Grubs is the name for baby worms isnt is?
[20:46:15] <Tom_itx> they are baby worms :)
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[20:58:43] <marmite> i call my dick baby worm
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[20:59:19] <marmite> probebly coz my girls vag is so dirty
[20:59:21] <marmite> BADUMTISH
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[21:03:12] <Deejay> gn8
[21:03:54] -!- Deejay has quit [Quit: bye]
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[21:50:58] <tjtr33> Merry Christmas to all! best of luck in the New Year! & thx!
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[21:54:28] <jdh> and for some, way TMI
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[21:59:41] <Tom_itx> ok got the hubs turned down on the timing pulleys. they fit alot better now
[22:06:19] <PetefromTn_> Sweet tom whatcha workin' on?
[22:06:44] <Tom_itx> just the pulley for the encoder on the spindle
[22:06:51] <Tom_itx> nothing major
[22:07:09] <PetefromTn_> on what machine?
[22:07:28] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/new_pulleys/spindle_enc2.jpg
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[22:07:48] <Tom_itx> cut the boss's off and drilled & tapped inside the belt part
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[22:08:02] <Tom_itx> the one on the right stuck up a bit too much
[22:08:43] <PetefromTn_> is that the before pic then?
[22:08:49] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:08:53] <PetefromTn_> OK
[22:09:01] <PetefromTn_> cool glad you are getting it done.
[22:09:03] <Tom_itx> gonna get pizza then maybe an 'after' pic
[22:09:12] <PetefromTn_> Enjoy
[22:09:16] <Tom_itx> i still need new boards
[22:09:25] <PetefromTn_> what boards?
[22:09:27] <jdh> what boards?
[22:09:28] <Tom_itx> so it's just sitting for now
[22:09:30] <Tom_itx> mesa
[22:09:39] <PetefromTn_> ah
[22:09:43] <jdh> hey pete
[22:09:43] <Tom_itx> dunno what happened for sure but i blew out the 5v
[22:09:56] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[22:10:04] <jdh> guess where I'm going friday
[22:10:11] <PetefromTn_> No idea
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[22:10:40] <XXCoder1> Mars.
[22:11:06] <Tom_itx> scuba diving
[22:11:20] <jdh> good guess! In Florida
[22:11:35] <Tom_itx> just observant
[22:11:58] <PetefromTn_> funny you mention that. My wife was talking about taking her vacation in South Florida here soon probably head to the Keys maybe
[22:12:37] <jdh> that would be cool. just a reallllly long drive for me.
[22:13:01] <jdh> I don't have to go back to work until jan5 though
[22:13:04] <PetefromTn_> She usually takes her vacation around Christmas time but this year she decided to let someone else in the office there take Christmas vacation
[22:13:22] <PetefromTn_> So we are thinking maybe in the spring or something
[22:14:06] <PetefromTn_> We would probably just fly down there and rent a car
[22:14:19] <jdh> I carry too much junk to fly
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[22:15:23] <PetefromTn_> My Mother drives down a lot and she usually rents a mini van or something for the week. Saved the wear and tear on her cars and if something goes wrong they bring you another one LOL
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[22:16:42] <jdh> I have my 'system' for diving out of my vehicle. Things go a lot smoother if I take mine.
[22:16:59] <PetefromTn_> your vehicle floats? hehe
[22:17:01] <jdh> I tried my wife's a few times (gets much better MPG) but it just wasn't teh same
[22:17:50] <PetefromTn_> I have not been diving in many years now but I used to go all the time. Loved it.
[22:18:08] <jdh> < $2/gal gas in SC now
[22:18:29] <PetefromTn_> REALLY? Less than $2.00?
[22:18:41] <jdh> $1.98 in some
[22:18:45] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[22:19:03] <PetefromTn_> We are at like $2.29 or so last I got some
[22:19:45] <PetefromTn_> Sure makes stompin' on the pedal in my Bronco feel a bit less guilty hehehe
[22:19:52] <_methods> still $2.14 here in charleston
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[22:21:36] <PetefromTn_> Kinda dreadin' all the Christmas present Wrapping my wife and I have to do later LOL.... It is kind of a tradition for us to stay up listening to Christmas music or watching the Christmas Story movie and wrap all of the gifts on Christmas Eve after the kids go to bed.
[22:21:48] <_methods> i'm sure opec will try and keep it low just long enough to make fracking/oil shale seem like a bad idea
[22:21:58] <_methods> and force companies out of business
[22:22:40] <syyl_> our christmas movie is die hard...
[22:22:57] <_methods> yippeee kai yay motherF*er
[22:23:08] <PetefromTn_> hah that is a great movie and it is kinda Christmas---sy.
[22:23:13] <jdh> we accidentally watched "Killer Joe" with the family a few xmas's ago.
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[22:24:55] <jdh> movie was good/awful. Not a great family flick though.
[22:25:06] <syyl_> :D
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[22:25:37] <FinboySlick> Merry christmas everyone.
[22:26:00] <PetefromTn_> Merry Christmas SLICK!!
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[22:27:42] <FinboySlick> Thanks Pete.
[22:28:14] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: You spoiling the kids tonight?
[22:28:30] <FinboySlick> Or do they each get a broken endmill wrapped in newspaper?
[22:28:37] <PetefromTn_> I ate too much... now I gotta try to find room for some Key lime pie or home made NY style Cheesecake
[22:28:48] <PetefromTn_> heh can you do that?
[22:28:56] <PetefromTn_> would have saved me a boatload of cash
[22:28:59] <_methods> and a 500g 6" chuck
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[22:29:26] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Well, they might be disappointed but you *can*. BTW, remind me to give you my cheesepie recipe.
[22:29:39] <PetefromTn_> I need to find a GOOD quality relatively inexpensive 8" 3 jaw for the lathe ...
[22:29:59] <PetefromTn_> No need my wife makes THE_BEST_CHEESECAKE_IN THE WORLD!!
[22:30:04] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Busybee Tools has a few.
[22:30:18] <FinboySlick> PetefromTn_: Yes, but this is cheese *pie*.
[22:30:30] <PetefromTn_> OH missed that
[22:30:40] <PetefromTn_> send it over man LOL
[22:30:56] <FinboySlick> Hehe, it's not that big a difference but this is an important technicality to avoid conflict with you wife ;)
[22:30:58] <PetefromTn_> Better yet post it on pastebin or something so everyone can enjoy it.
[22:31:38] <PetefromTn_> Speakin of which this is making me hungry again. BRB I gotta go get some Key lime pie and a big ol' glass of milk
[22:32:41] <FinboySlick> Have a good one.
[22:34:00] <Tom_itx> $1.97 here
[22:47:20] <PetefromTn_> Damn I love Key Lime Pie.....
[22:50:00] <FinboySlick> Now you're making *me* hungry.
[22:50:21] <PetefromTn_> heh Sorry man
[22:50:46] <PetefromTn_> I need to try to stay away from it all but I give in on Christmas and Thanksgiving....
[23:00:59] <jdh> Pete: good reason to go to Hobo's in Key Largo
[23:02:35] <PetefromTn_> We enjoyed eating Conch sandwiches and Conch Fritters at Porky's in Marathon Key last time we were down there. Dunno if that place is even there anymore.
[23:04:04] <PetefromTn_> I would kill for some Bahamian Conch Fritters and that orange sauce right now LOL.... DAMN that is some good stuff.
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[23:44:03] <zeeshan> man
[23:44:06] <zeeshan> these molex connectors
[23:44:09] <zeeshan> what a pain!
[23:44:37] <zeeshan> one 12 pin molex to mesa7i77 connector for encoder
[23:44:41] <zeeshan> takes about 25 - 30 min
[23:44:41] <zeeshan> :/
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[23:58:46] <roycroft> do any of you have one of those 30" 3-in-1 sheet metal tools?
[23:59:59] <roycroft> i guess i'll find out