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[00:02:17] <tjb1> The wonderful world of suppliers...send order in 10/23/14 with prints that company quoted 8/4/14 with delivery date of 12/31/14
[00:02:24] <tjb1> contacted today about how they cant make them to print because they don't have 1/3 on their tape measures and need print modifications approved, spend all day dealing with dimwits
[00:02:44] <tjb1> new delivery date is 3/25/15 because they just got prints approved.......
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[00:03:21] <tjb1> what a crappy company
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[00:05:14] <jdh> 1/3 on tape measure? wtf does that mean?
[00:05:26] <tjb1> dimension on print was 7.33
[00:05:35] <SpeedEvil> lolz
[00:05:55] * SpeedEvil just took delivery of a roll of '200um' thick plastic that was actually 120.
[00:06:03] <SpeedEvil> Because it had '0.2' on the package
[00:06:05] <jdh> they measure witha tape measure?
[00:06:17] <tjb1> I guess
[00:06:20] <SpeedEvil> I guess they mean on a printer UI
[00:06:38] <jdh> 1/3 would be 3.3 thou oversize
[00:06:43] <SpeedEvil> slider with a ruler, not a proper textbox
[00:07:01] <tjb1> and then other messages included stuff about how they make stuff 1/8" bigger than needed because I was complaining about the +-.125 tolerance
[00:07:21] <jdh> pick another vendor
[00:07:37] <tjb1> I don't think we have much of a choice
[00:07:52] <tjb1> inconel baskets
[00:08:14] <jdh> we get inconel stuff made to .1 thou
[00:08:22] <tjb1> this is a weldment
[00:08:27] <_methods> ugh
[00:08:37] <_methods> inconel i have nightmares about that stuff
[00:08:42] <jdh> ours have hundreds of welds
[00:09:32] <tjb1> is your vender near NY?
[00:09:34] <tjb1> vendor
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[00:09:50] <jdh> nope, one in cali, one in japan
[00:10:25] <jdh> http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/EP0514120B1/imgf0004.png
[00:10:37] <jdh> that is about a 25th of the part
[00:10:39] <tjb1> just drives me crazy that they quoted the original prints and said nothing and then sat on an order for 2 months before saying anything and now delivery date moved 3 months
[00:11:21] <jdh> gaps are welded, the 2 springs in each cell are welded, all the cells are welded together
[00:11:36] <_methods> wow all inconel?
[00:12:02] <jdh> for that part,yeah.
[00:12:40] <_methods> wtf is it for?
[00:12:44] <jdh> http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/EP0514120B1/imgf0001.png
[00:12:58] <jdh> the bottom right is the side view of that part
[00:12:59] <_methods> nuclear?
[00:13:04] <jdh> yeah
[00:13:20] <_methods> nice
[00:13:27] <_methods> waste rod storage?
[00:13:57] <jdh> no, in reactor.
[00:14:05] <_methods> wow nice
[00:14:05] <jdh> well, and in waste since they just leave them in there.
[00:15:08] <SpeedEvil> ...
[00:15:11] <SpeedEvil> An inconel fabber
[00:15:17] <SpeedEvil> and they don't have micrometers?
[00:15:39] <SpeedEvil> Is this a guy in his garage?
[00:15:57] <SpeedEvil> 3d print it
[00:16:10] <jdh> do you really need inconel?
[00:18:27] <tjb1> heat treat baskets
[00:18:51] <SpeedEvil> Tehre are 3d printers that can do inconel
[00:18:56] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if they would suit
[00:19:15] <jdh> we have one that does laser sintering. surface finish is crap
[00:19:24] <jdh> what about moly baskets?
[00:19:48] <SpeedEvil> jdh: yeah - for heat treatment baskets, you might not care
[00:19:52] <tjb1> I'm not sure about all the details, I didn't do the design
[00:20:15] <tjb1> 1550F and a quench
[00:20:38] <jdh> otoh, whoever speced 7.33 on the original drawing has issues.
[00:20:56] <jdh> quench might be bad for other materials.
[00:21:20] <andypugh> Numbers are just numbers. There is no reason to prefer any one over any other.
[00:21:55] <jdh> we use moly baskets for our ceramics... ~1800C
[00:25:09] <andypugh> I had a huge “discussion” with a supplier once about how my numbers didn’t “work”. I had one very thin flex-web with a 0.01mm tolerance, and everthing around it was +/- .5mm. The manufactured to “nominal” dimensions and the web disappeared. I said that they had messed up, they said that my dimensions were wrong.
[00:26:13] <tjb1> andypugh: I also argued with the guy today about how his new dimension was in fact not the same as the one on our print
[00:26:16] <andypugh> I knew that the numbers didn’t “work” but it makes no sense to write “10.123 +/- 0.5 mm”
[00:27:43] <renesis> wait was the part within spec though?
[00:27:53] <renesis> even tho it didnt have the feature you drew?
[00:28:30] <andypugh> My part? No. The web was drawn as 0.25 +/- 0.01 and it was less than 0 thick.
[00:29:09] <renesis> what do you mean less than zero thick
[00:29:22] <tjb1> no there
[00:29:34] <andypugh> The other dimensions were super-accurate to the nominal dimension, but the one feature with a tight tolerance was absent completley.
[00:29:44] <renesis> wait you mean less than zero thick on the actual part
[00:29:48] <renesis> more words pls
[00:30:35] <tjb1> part not exist
[00:30:55] <andypugh> I _thought_ I was saying, on the drtawing “I don’t care how you place the other features, but creep up on this and tickle it to thickness”
[00:31:19] <tjb1> andypugh: luckily I don't have to deal with too many vendors
[00:31:30] <tjb1> we have a few people in the plant that work for our department just to make tooling
[00:31:53] <andypugh> But they looked at the drawing, thought “0.5mm is really easy” CNC machined to the nominal dimensions, and ended up with a feature missing.
[00:31:56] <renesis> guess it depends where you were referencing your dimensions
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[00:33:03] <andypugh> I can see it both ways. If you made the part exactly to the nominal dimensions then the web disappeared. It comes down to two different ways of interpreting a machining tolerance.
[00:33:50] <andypugh> But the fact remains that the part was not to the drawing in at least one very critical way…
[00:34:04] <renesis> if tje .25 referenced the +/-.5 surface, its not really ambiguous
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[00:34:15] <andypugh> (And a valud part _would_ have been to the drawing)
[00:34:25] <renesis> if you reference the same point, like an origin, the part isnt wrong
[00:34:59] <andypugh> Yeah, I stand by my design. But I do understand what went wrong.
[00:35:01] <archivist> the nominals should be FROM an accurate part, they were wrong
[00:36:18] <renesis> well if it was dimension as 1.0 +/- 0.5, and 1.25 +/- 0.1, then the part is correct, without the feature
[00:36:55] <renesis> well if it was dimension as 1.0 +/- 0.5, and 0.25 +/- 0.1 referencing off the top of the 1.0 feature, then they owe you money or parts
[00:36:55] <andypugh> The web thickness was individually dimensoned as a thickness.
[00:36:56] <archivist> it is never correct to miss asked for features
[00:37:02] <renesis> they should have called you
[00:37:07] <renesis> but i wouldnt hold them liable
[00:37:14] <archivist> I would
[00:37:37] <andypugh> Yeah, I ended up with two parts and the drawing was definitely of one :-)
[00:37:39] <renesis> if its thickness dimensioned i would
[00:37:54] <renesis> if its coordinate dimensioned of a single point, i wouldnt
[00:37:59] <jdh> if the feature was in the drawing, it should have been in the part.
[00:38:01] <renesis> sounds like theyre just fuckups tho
[00:38:33] <renesis> jdh: it could .00001 thick and be to spec, you couldnt deny its there =)
[00:38:51] <andypugh> I can’t actually believe that they called me in to tell me off, rather than just make another part and keep quiet.
[00:38:57] <renesis> if it was dimensioned as a height from the 0.5 tolerance feature, its not ambiguous and theyre fuckups
[00:39:39] <andypugh> Anyway… I need to get up in 2 hours :-)
[00:39:51] <tjb1> I like the machinists that think all the engineers are retarded
[00:40:03] <renesis> some of the engineers are
[00:40:16] <tjb1> one said I pulled a 47* chamfer out of my ass
[00:40:35] <andypugh> (with a 3am pickup I never expected much sleep, but I should try)
[00:40:40] <renesis> is that a standard tool or something
[00:41:13] <andypugh> You wouldn’t choose 47* without a good reason, I would say.
[00:41:44] <andypugh> But even if you did, it’s their job to make what you draw.
[00:41:47] <tjb1> it was to contact a head angle on a collet to try to avoid scratching it
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[00:42:00] <renesis> thats polite
[00:42:09] <tjb1> spread collet, angle is 45* at nominal and 50* at spread
[00:42:16] <renesis> couldnt you have changed some other dimension and used 45?
[00:42:28] <renesis> oh
[00:42:28] <tjb1> not that it matters renesis
[00:42:38] <renesis> i dunno was curious
[00:42:44] <tjb1> lathe and grinder dont care about angle besides they bitch about not being able to use a center
[00:42:48] <renesis> but yeah, moving springy thing
[00:43:47] <andypugh> I thought collets were meant to take a recurved shape with a parallel bore, so that the socket angle should suit the 45 degree.
[00:44:19] <tjb1> andypugh: the 45* wasnt the contact head angle
[00:44:24] <tjb1> more of a relief on the head angle
[00:44:51] <tjb1> it went from 45* to like 16* I think
[00:45:20] <tjb1> Some weird collet with a ton of spread
[00:45:38] <andypugh> In any case, you draw it, they make it. That’s the job-split :-)
[00:45:55] <andypugh> And now I really am going.
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[00:47:18] <tjb1> the wonderful world of collets
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[01:56:57] <n00b101> hello I have a 3-jaw sherline 3.1" chuck ... first time using this, and the jaws have become stuck on a 3/4" aluminium rod. the jaws to refuse to open. is it broken?
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[01:57:57] <poormansairforce> Tried to register on the forums and its telling me that there are 5 things entered wrong....not so... what gives??? Who can I contact to register?
[01:58:18] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop may be able to fix that
[01:58:22] <Tom_itx> i bet he's not here though
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[02:01:24] <poormansairforce> Thanks....I'll P.C. him
[02:01:47] <PetefromTn_> evening folks!
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[02:51:04] <n00b101> uh nevermind i was turning it the wrong way
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[03:23:39] <jdh> oops
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[03:58:22] <PetefromTn_andro> Dead in here today it seems.
[04:00:42] <Tom_L> busy
[04:01:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah man I was Christmas shopping all afternoon. Tired as Hell now LOL
[04:02:28] <jdh> shopping sucks
[04:02:47] <PetefromTn_andro> Picked up a bunch of aluminum for some jobs I gotta do in knoxvegas this morning.
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[04:04:11] <jdh> I cut some brackets out of .250 rect. stock that came out great.
[04:04:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Also got some drop pieces that were there that might come in handy for some prototype work I have to do.
[04:04:31] <jdh> got some .250 flat stock and tried the same cut... turned out crappy
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[04:04:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Why
[04:05:13] <jdh> different Al I think
[04:05:18] <jdh> didn't cut well
[04:05:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Huh
[04:05:56] <PetefromTn_andro> Usually the barstock cuts real nice
[04:06:04] <jdh> it did
[04:06:14] <jdh> the plate didn't
[04:06:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Is it5052 or 3k. Series?
[04:06:59] <jdh> mine was 6061
[04:07:12] <jdh> dunno what the other was. soft and yucky
[04:07:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Probably the 3 series it is soft and gummy like that
[04:07:56] <PetefromTn_andro> Cuts like Shit
[04:08:56] <jdh> random cuts I picked up at teh scrap place
[04:10:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Got some nice new skull kandy in ear monitor headphones for pretty good deal at Hastings and also got the new final Pink Floyd album the endless river tonight. Enjoying both of them right now.
[04:10:53] <roycroft> put on atom heart mother after
[04:10:54] <roycroft> :)
[04:11:09] <PetefromTn_andro> There is supposed to be a decent scrap metal place up in south Knoxville
[04:11:24] <PetefromTn_andro> Will do Roy LOL
[04:11:29] <jdh> I used to live off Chapman
[04:11:49] <roycroft> that and meddle are my two favorite floyd albums
[04:12:10] <roycroft> tied for first
[04:12:19] <roycroft> obscured by clouds is my third favorite
[04:12:26] <PetefromTn_andro> I absolutely love the division bell and the delicate sound of thunder
[04:12:39] <roycroft> dsotm comes in at #4
[04:13:06] <PetefromTn_andro> And I like all of the other too of course
[04:13:06] <jdh> I don;t think DB and delicate are anything like the rest
[04:13:49] <PetefromTn_andro> They are not of course but they are actually my favorites
[04:14:24] <PetefromTn_andro> They seem more mellow and I like that
[04:16:02] <PetefromTn_andro> I have to machine some 1/8 inch 6061 plate for a prototype tomorrow
[04:17:15] <roycroft> i just decided to fabricate a burner stand for my reduction kettle tomorrow
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[04:17:36] <roycroft> this may be the last good weekend for working in my welding shop without bring a big heater out there until spring
[04:18:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I know and my forced air heater is doa right now
[04:18:19] <roycroft> and i still haven't finished cleaning the shop up after welding up the main stand
[04:18:33] <roycroft> so i might as well get all the welding and grinding finished before i clean up
[04:19:35] <PetefromTn_andro> Main stand for what?
[04:20:09] <roycroft> my brew system
[04:20:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay
[04:20:55] <roycroft> www.zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/NewBrewStand.jpeg
[04:21:03] <roycroft> that's the main stand
[04:21:25] <roycroft> i make some beers where i need to do a reduction boil of some of the runnings, so i need a second burner for that
[04:22:14] <roycroft> http://www.zymurgasm.com/NewBrewSystem/NewBrewStand/WholeSystem.jpeg
[04:22:24] <roycroft> that's a little fuzzy, but it's the main stand with the plumbing installed
[04:22:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah I know I think you mentioned that before. I have built several different beer brewing stand setups for local customers
[04:22:41] <roycroft> i need to make brackets to support the plumbing this weekend as well
[04:23:36] <roycroft> the stand itself is made of 1020
[04:23:44] <roycroft> the burner support is 304
[04:24:09] <roycroft> i brewed this past weekend, and i could hold my hand on any part of the main stand while the burner was going full blast
[04:24:18] <roycroft> so i don't need super high temp paint for it
[04:24:23] <roycroft> engine paint would be fine
[04:24:32] <roycroft> and probably that's not even necessary
[04:25:14] <PetefromTn_andro> The last stand I built was entirely stainless steel but not all polished like that.
[04:26:12] <roycroft> i have about $7k into that brew system now
[04:26:15] <roycroft> and i'm out of cash for it
[04:26:21] <roycroft> i could not afford ss tubing for the stand
[04:26:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Shit is expensive.
[04:26:48] <roycroft> the plumbing is what killed
[04:26:49] <roycroft> me
[04:26:57] <roycroft> those tri-clover fittings are so damn expensive
[04:27:03] <roycroft> and there's so many of them
[04:27:12] <PetefromTn_andro> I was amazed at how much cash the customer has been putting into it
[04:27:13] <roycroft> the clamps are $7.95 each
[04:27:15] <roycroft> not too bad
[04:27:22] <roycroft> the gaskets for each connection are $1.79 each
[04:27:24] <roycroft> not too bad
[04:27:31] <roycroft> but i had to buy 50 of each
[04:27:35] <roycroft> and ran out and had to buy 10 more of each
[04:28:03] <roycroft> yeah, it all adds up really quickly
[04:28:33] <roycroft> i tell you though, brew day is so nice now
[04:28:53] <roycroft> no more lifting heavy kettles full of hot, sticky liquids
[04:29:03] <roycroft> i just turn valves and push buttons
[04:29:04] <PetefromTn_andro> After I finished the project he invited us along with almost fifty of his close friends to a huge bar b Que at his home where he cooked a whole pig on the smoker grill that I helped him build
[04:29:12] <roycroft> nice
[04:29:50] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah it was a lot of fun and the pig was delicious
[04:30:06] <roycroft> after a year of designing/building this brew system i'm starting to get back into brewing seriously
[04:30:29] <PetefromTn_andro> I don't drink beer but everyone seemed to be enjoying it so I guess it's good
[04:30:46] <roycroft> i only brewed 7 times this year
[04:30:50] <roycroft> i brewed 30 times last year
[04:31:07] <roycroft> my problem is that i don't drink a whole lot
[04:31:11] <roycroft> but i love to brew
[04:31:18] <PetefromTn_andro> I enjoy some good wine occasionally
[04:31:18] <roycroft> fortunately i have friends who like beer
[04:31:32] <roycroft> i make mead and cider as well
[04:31:46] <roycroft> i'd like to make wine, but haven't gotten into that yet
[04:32:17] <roycroft> i've been doing a lot of research on ancient beers - before hops were used - and i've brewed a number of non-hopped beers
[04:32:19] <PetefromTn_andro> There are actually several small wineries in Gatlinburg and Pigeon forge
[04:32:23] <roycroft> they're called gruits
[04:32:31] <roycroft> and some of the ones i've made are pretty good
[04:32:54] <roycroft> i just got some wine tonight made with niagra grapes
[04:33:12] <roycroft> i've heard of them, but they only grow back east, in new york, new england, and southern ontario
[04:33:24] <PetefromTn_andro> We went in and sampled from the free tasting at their stores in Gatlinburg and some of it was pretty good
[04:33:27] <roycroft> it's a pretty nice wine, although a little sweet
[04:33:37] <roycroft> i've never had wine from tennessee though
[04:33:52] <roycroft> i haven't been to tennessee since the early '70s though
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[04:34:12] <roycroft> and i wasn't of drinking age then (officially)
[04:34:18] <PetefromTn_andro> It is also kinda sweet but honestly I kinda like a bit more fruity tasting wine
[04:34:23] <roycroft> and wine wasn't a big deal then
[04:34:34] <roycroft> i like dry fruity wines
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[04:34:54] <roycroft> i really like the flavors from this niagra wine, but i wish it were a bit drier
[04:35:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Then you might enjoy the ones that they make here.
[04:35:21] <roycroft> i'll look for some
[04:35:36] <roycroft> the local supermarkets won't have them, of course, but there are some wine specialty shops in town
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[04:36:20] <PetefromTn_andro> The only one my wife and I really considered buying was one made from muscodine
[04:36:34] <roycroft> i've been focusing on belgian beers for the past 2-3 years, and the belgian sours can be rather vinuous
[04:36:40] <roycroft> perhaps the most wine-like of any beers
[04:36:45] <PetefromTn_andro> Dunno if that is the correct spelling
[04:36:51] <roycroft> i like moscatos
[04:37:03] <roycroft> but they are often too sweet
[04:37:11] <roycroft> a good dry moscato is really nice
[04:37:18] <roycroft> bursting with fruity flavors
[04:37:27] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah well like I said it was kind of sweet
[04:37:53] <roycroft> this stuff i have to night has peach, honeysuckle, orange blossom, and honey flavors
[04:38:05] <roycroft> it's pretty nice other than being too sweet
[04:38:21] <Tom_itx> how to make a part from drawing in solidworks?
[04:38:32] <jdh> hsm express?
[04:38:43] <jdh> or do you mean a SW part
[04:39:05] <Tom_L> sw part
[04:39:07] <roycroft> i don't know what cam plugins there are for sw
[04:39:24] <PetefromTn_andro> I know lots of folks love their beers but I never acquired a taste for it. It always seems to have this heady after taste I dislike.
[04:39:34] <roycroft> it's something i'm going to have to look into whenever i cnc my mill
[04:39:54] <roycroft> i don't push people to become beer drinkers
[04:40:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Not sure what you are doing tom
[04:40:04] <roycroft> but i bet you i could make a beer you would like
[04:40:14] <roycroft> i'm good at making beers that non-beer drinkers like
[04:40:34] <roycroft> i think tom is designing a part in sw and wants to cnc mill it
[04:40:36] <PetefromTn_andro> LOL yeah you are welcome to try
[04:40:53] <roycroft> please correct me if i'm wrong
[04:41:23] <roycroft> or cnc turn it
[04:41:30] <roycroft> i should not assume what kind of part it is
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[04:42:59] <roycroft> i'm designing this new stand in sw right now
[04:43:11] <roycroft> but it's just a simple 3d sketch, then adding weldments
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[04:46:47] <PetefromTn_andro> All of the running around today and I still feel like I didn't get hardly any Christmas shopping done
[04:49:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Running out of Time for sure
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[04:54:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Was watching some videos by oxtools
[04:55:11] <PetefromTn_andro> I like to see the different ways that he does things.
[04:55:40] <PetefromTn_andro> He has some interesting ideas about how to setup machining parts
[04:56:26] <PetefromTn_andro> I like the little vise mounted tooling plate and hold downstairs he made
[04:57:37] <PetefromTn_andro> And the way he turned his little 5c collet spin indexer into a neat little dividing head is pretty cool
[05:00:52] <zeeshan> yea i watch him and abom79
[05:00:58] <zeeshan> and keith fenner and keith rucker
[05:01:00] <zeeshan> religiously :P
[05:01:05] <zeeshan> theyre all awesome
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[05:08:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup watching now LOL
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[05:39:01] <Rickta59> anyone using emc2 for 3d printing?
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[06:02:08] <unfy> i totally need to fiddle with sketchup ._.
[06:02:22] <unfy> not knowing how much material to buy is starting to get irksome
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[06:14:13] <Tom_L> is it hard to rotate a part in solidworks so you change workplanes?
[06:14:37] <Tom_L> i need to change orientation from how i drew it so Z is shown as up
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[06:19:59] <unfy> can't help ya, personally. sure others can
[06:20:19] <Tom_L> i'll check later. time to sleep anyway
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[06:27:07] <zeeshan> yes
[06:27:27] <zeeshan> you can do a body translate
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[06:27:40] <zeeshan> rotate i mean
[06:27:58] <Tom_L> that would probably be best after it's all extruded...
[06:28:09] <zeeshan> well if youre just trying to c hange how you sketched
[06:28:11] <Tom_L> i was reading how to change schetch planes after it's drawn
[06:28:18] <zeeshan> you can right click the sketch and chhoose sketch plane
[06:28:25] <zeeshan> and select which one you want it
[06:28:31] <Tom_L> k
[06:28:37] <Tom_L> i'll mess with it tomorrow
[06:29:18] <Tom_L> ctrl click to select more than one?
[06:29:38] <zeeshan> are you inside the sketch?
[06:29:47] <Tom_L> not yet
[06:30:07] <zeeshan> oh youre talking about in the feature manager
[06:30:16] <zeeshan> i dont think you can do it multiple at a time
[06:30:31] <Tom_L> ok
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[06:34:38] <Tom_L> seems to do the trick
[06:34:40] <Tom_L> thanks
[06:34:51] <zeeshan> np!
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[07:59:49] <Deejay> moin
[08:01:08] <unfy> o/
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[08:13:39] <cathode> hi
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[11:00:27] <The_Ball> Any opinions about pendants? I'm tossing up getting a MHC2 or a HB04
[11:00:35] <The_Ball> MHC2:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Handwheel-MHC2-pendant-mpg-MACH3-supported-For-JY5300-2-cnc-controller-MHC2-/151259324741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2337c22145
[11:00:44] <The_Ball> HB04:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Wireless-MPG-Pendant-Handwheel-Mach3-For-CNC-Mac-Mach-3-4-axis-Controller-/400483630310?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5d3eaf3ce6
[11:03:58] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[11:04:32] <The_Ball> good evening here in Australia
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[12:22:13] <jthornton> good morning
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[13:52:39] <Loetmichel> just took the trash out...*BRRRR* that s COLD outside (about +2°c)... at least in jeans and tshirt with no socks and sandals ;)
[13:53:03] <Loetmichel> i am getting weak and whiney, dont i? ;-)
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[14:28:06] * jthornton has a lathe roughing cycle that follows an angled line now for an arc
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[14:39:16] <Tom_itx> nice one jthornton
[14:39:49] <Tom_itx> did you ever get that ball mount cut?
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[14:47:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331223948906 my new ball mount
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[14:59:17] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, yes
[15:00:28] <JT-Shop> my plan is you feed it a series of arcs or lines and it roughs the part out then does a finish pass
[15:01:19] <JT-Shop> the roughing passes follow the contour at the end so the finish pass has an even depth to cut
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[16:10:09] * JT-Shop has a pile of copper plated steel rods and I'm not sure what to do with them as the scrap yard won't take them
[16:10:38] <archivist> what a strange scrap yard
[16:11:46] <archivist> unplate the copper onto some copper, and sell them steel and copper
[16:13:46] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, pound them in the ground and you'll have plenty of ground rods
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[17:51:15] <Tom_itx> how can i define a plane in solidworks?
[17:51:51] <archivist> see the help iirc it is reasonably simple
[17:51:52] <ssi> insert -> plane
[17:51:54] <ssi> or something like that
[17:52:07] <ssi> then it's defined relative to a face or another plane with an offset or angle
[17:52:22] <archivist> or an axis
[17:52:24] <ssi> there's also a plane button on the features toolbar
[17:53:42] <archivist> I just restarted playing with sw after a few years, they sure have messed some stuff up, had to spend a while making sensible toolbars
[17:53:51] <Tom_itx> older ver...
[17:53:57] <Tom_itx> doesn't have all those whistles
[17:54:05] <archivist> which ver?
[17:54:09] <Tom_itx> 04
[17:54:18] <ssi> dang
[17:54:28] <Tom_itx> i never used it much... just trying to pick it up a bit
[17:54:37] <archivist> I remember doing in in the 04 ver
[17:54:43] <archivist> it in
[17:54:58] <Tom_itx> well i'm sure you can... it's a pretty basic funciton
[17:55:18] <archivist> there is a drop down in that version where you add reference geometry
[17:55:47] <Tom_itx> construction geo yes
[17:56:19] <Tom_itx> don't see ref geo
[17:56:39] <Tom_itx> ok found it off the menu
[17:58:15] <Tom_itx> plane is darked out
[17:58:19] <archivist> Ii cant remember when my fav feature arrived...gear mates
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[17:58:46] <Tom_itx> there we go.. can do it in a sketch
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[18:00:41] <archivist> raw 2009 version is useless at adding mates until you put the rotation tool onto a toolbar
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[18:46:57] <Tom_itx> the curve is generally slow at the beginning...
[18:47:00] <Tom_itx> i'm getting there
[18:51:12] <archivist> today I drew the kitchen up, in SW it says the stairs angle is 41.2 deg, my inclinometer says 41 deg 10 min...nearyenough methinks
[18:51:31] <Tom_itx> yup
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[18:51:38] <Tom_itx> i did my property in acad years back
[18:51:39] <archivist> I am surprised to be that close
[18:51:49] <Tom_itx> helps find buried stuff later on
[18:52:33] <archivist> I am thinking of moving stuff about and would it fit
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[18:56:40] <Tom_itx> it's frustrating when you know a cad cam package inside and out, trying to learn another one and knowing it _can_ be done but _how_
[18:57:25] <archivist> yup
[18:57:41] <Tom_itx> never had much use for acad really
[18:58:31] <archivist> I only used acad waaaay back on v2
[18:58:54] <Tom_itx> not sure what ver but it was on a bazillion floppies
[18:58:58] <archivist> long before the solid modellers came out
[18:59:04] <Tom_itx> yeah same here
[18:59:14] <Tom_itx> my cad cam is old... wireframe
[18:59:23] <Tom_itx> but it will import solids
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[19:47:27] <zeeshan> dont complain
[19:47:29] <zeeshan> !
[19:47:33] <zeeshan> ive been using it from 2006
[19:47:37] <zeeshan> its gotten so much better in 2014
[19:47:57] <zeeshan> (RE archivist )
[19:47:57] <zeeshan> :D
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[20:11:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OKUMA-MC-4VA-CNC-MILLING-MACHINE-OSP-5000-CONTROL-/321619086385
[20:12:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermax-3-hp-cnc-mill-3-axis-/261693288595 BALL SCREWS 3 AXIS 3 PHASE NOT WORKING COMPLETE MACHINE
[20:14:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deckel-KF-12-duplicator-milling-machine-a-manual-cnc-/221047363368
[20:15:16] <syyl_> yeah
[20:15:19] <syyl_> a kf12
[20:15:27] <syyl_> thats a awesome machine
[20:23:59] <mozmck> "manual cnc"
[20:25:08] <SpeedEvil> fun
[20:25:40] <pcw_home> Cranial Neuron Controlled?
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[20:28:27] <zeeshan> tracer cnc ftw
[20:28:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kKtTCgM.png
[20:28:49] <zeeshan> when i press the tool_change_sw
[20:29:02] <zeeshan> it will change the state of input #11?
[20:29:17] <zeeshan> which in turn i am thinking i can use to trigger some software checks
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[20:29:27] <zeeshan> which if all met will enable output#0
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[21:15:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/Fwg116l.png
[21:16:03] <zeeshan> can someone spot anything wrong with any of my i/o wiring?
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[21:16:46] <zeeshan> im really hoping e-stop and tool change pins on the 7i77
[21:16:55] <zeeshan> register a change in state with the way i have it drawn
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[21:29:29] <MacGalempsy> hello this fine afternoon
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[21:48:56] <MacGalempsy> its pretty chilly here in NW Ark
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[21:58:54] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:40:07] <jfigie> Hi zeeshan
[22:41:32] <jfigie> I looked at your schematics
[22:47:24] <zeeshan> HI
[22:47:40] <zeeshan> does it look okay?
[22:48:06] <jfigie> yes I have a few comments.
[22:48:13] <zeeshan> okay
[22:50:25] <jfigie> If your z motor is brake is like some servomotors that I have worked with you will want to make sure that you never attempt to run the motor when the brake is still engaged.
[22:50:43] <jfigie> doing so may damage the brake and motor.
[22:51:33] <zeeshan> i was hoping to trigger output #1
[22:51:48] <zeeshan> whenever machine power is on
[22:51:56] <zeeshan> (in linuxcnc)
[22:52:20] <jfigie> will you spindle fall if the brake is not engaged?
[22:52:31] <zeeshan> table falls yes
[22:52:39] <zeeshan> i dont think it will fall if the servo has power
[22:52:46] <zeeshan> so if servo drive is enabled
[22:52:48] <zeeshan> it should not fall
[22:53:09] <jfigie> If the servo is on then the feedback loops are closed and it will hold position
[22:53:17] <zeeshan> yes
[22:53:49] <zeeshan> its a software side check for me.. i dunno if its the best way to do it
[22:53:56] <zeeshan> basically asap machine is on , brake goes off
[22:54:09] <zeeshan> (after a small time delay of maybe 500ms
[22:54:11] <zeeshan> )
[22:54:31] <zeeshan> if machine is off, brake engages immediately
[22:54:34] <jfigie> OK so when you first apply power the processor has to boot up etc. It may be a while before there is a valid output to the drive
[22:55:25] <zeeshan> there is no machine power till full boot has occured
[22:55:28] <jfigie> I guess in your case 0V to the drive control should not produce any motion
[22:55:39] <zeeshan> yes
[22:55:42] <zeeshan> cause they wont be enabled
[22:55:46] <zeeshan> they'll be in "fault mode"
[22:56:23] <zeeshan> the drive doesnt enable, unless it gets +5v
[22:56:24] <jfigie> I ff the drives are in a faulted state then the servo loops will probably not be closed
[22:56:39] <jfigie> so then the drive will not produce any holding torque
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[22:57:10] <jfigie> vertical loads that can drop are kind of tricky in my mind
[22:57:27] <zeeshan> i dont think im understanding you :P
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[22:57:42] <zeeshan> my brake is engaged when the solenoid is off
[22:57:48] <jfigie> yes
[22:57:54] <zeeshan> so after i boot up
[22:58:02] <zeeshan> i click the "machine power on" button
[22:58:15] <zeeshan> its only then the servo drive will be enabled
[22:58:29] <jfigie> so first you should boot up, enable the drive so that the servo loop is closed but not commanding any motion, then release the brake
[22:58:36] <zeeshan> yes
[22:58:44] <zeeshan> i think i'd need to give it a delay uf at least 500 ms
[22:58:47] <zeeshan> *of
[22:58:51] <jfigie> sure
[22:58:53] <zeeshan> because ithink the servo drive needs a little bit of time
[22:59:00] <zeeshan> that i will have to experiment with
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[23:00:31] <jfigie> on the BP there were 2 limits switches on each axis. One for homing and a second one space slightly further away as a hard overtravel limit.
[23:00:57] <zeeshan> same here
[23:00:59] <zeeshan> 2 limit switches
[23:01:20] <jfigie> the hard over travel disables all motion to prevent damage if something goes wrong
[23:02:47] <zeeshan> hmm
[23:02:49] <zeeshan> that's true
[23:02:56] <zeeshan> you get a jog error in linuxcnc
[23:03:00] <zeeshan> er i mean overlimit
[23:03:13] <jfigie> yes but it is a sw limit
[23:03:36] <zeeshan> yes
[23:03:41] <zeeshan> but if the sw limit for some reason doesnt work
[23:03:49] <zeeshan> like lost steps on a stepper
[23:03:52] <zeeshan> ive hit the hard limit
[23:03:59] <jfigie> yes
[23:04:06] <zeeshan> damn steppers :)
[23:04:12] <zeeshan> absolute encoders for the win!
[23:04:25] <jfigie> you have absolute encoders?
[23:05:01] <zeeshan> glass scales
[23:05:05] <zeeshan> arent they absolute :P
[23:05:22] <zeeshan> http://www.heidenhain.us/Images/pr_images/lc1xx.jpg
[23:05:23] <zeeshan> that stuff
[23:05:24] <jfigie> ok then you need to home each axis right?
[23:05:29] <zeeshan> yes
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[23:06:07] <jfigie> so what happens whein you move to the home/limit switch?
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[23:06:41] <zeeshan> when its in the auto homing mode for my lathe
[23:06:52] <zeeshan> it basically hits the limit switch, does all hits homing stuff
[23:06:58] <jfigie> yes
[23:07:06] <zeeshan> after its done the homing procedure, that switch becomes a hard limit switch
[23:07:44] <zeeshan> you gotta set home_is_shared in the ini
[23:07:48] <zeeshan> to 1
[23:08:01] <jfigie> OK
[23:08:41] <jfigie> That works but is not a fail safe as separate hard over travel limit switch
[23:09:20] <jfigie> if the SW is not working and the drive runs uncontrolled there is nothing to stop is except you hitting the estop
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[23:09:39] <jfigie> it* not is
[23:09:47] <zeeshan> youre right
[23:09:54] <zeeshan> during the homing procedure
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[23:09:57] <zeeshan> if the switch doesnt trip
[23:10:01] <zeeshan> you have some serious issue :)
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[23:10:48] <zeeshan> but the homing search velocity is usually set low
[23:10:56] <zeeshan> so if that happens, and you have a real hard crash
[23:11:03] <jfigie> Yes. I am still running and older version of Linuxcnc and I can jog the machine without it being homed
[23:11:04] <zeeshan> hopefully you get a servo error!
[23:11:38] <zeeshan> whenever i am homing the machine
[23:11:42] <zeeshan> i keep my hand on the e-stop
[23:12:10] <zeeshan> for industrial use , i think a separate home switch is mandatory
[23:12:13] <jfigie> I think there is a way to change that but I have not. So I can jog the axis into the hard overtravel swiches and the motion will stop
[23:14:22] <jfigie> OK I was just pointing out the differences that I see between the BP and what you have. Just FYI thats all. :-)
[23:14:33] <zeeshan> hehe
[23:15:54] <zeeshan> i really don't understand
[23:16:01] <zeeshan> why people don't fuse enclosure fans
[23:16:15] <zeeshan> most of them have a leadwire of 22awg
[23:16:25] <zeeshan> if the wire going to the fan decides to short for some reason
[23:16:40] <zeeshan> or the coil of the fans shorts
[23:16:57] <zeeshan> you can have a potential fire :/
[23:17:43] <jfigie> Is the fan listed by UL or some other testing lab?
[23:18:04] <zeeshan> http://media.digikey.com/photos/NMB%20Tech%20Photos/4715MS12TB50A00,%204715MS12TB10A00,%204715MS12TB40A00.jpg
[23:18:33] <jfigie> It says impedance protected
[23:19:26] <jfigie> I think this ensures it will not produce a ball of flame if it goes bad. Of course nothing is 100% sure
[23:19:56] <zeeshan> i was getting made fun of
[23:20:03] <zeeshan> because i was fusing the fans for 22awg wire..
[23:20:22] <jfigie> I suspect that some kind of short circuit test had to be completed to get all of th agency marks.
[23:20:53] <zeeshan> jfigie: it still doesnt protect the wire going to the fan from a short
[23:20:59] <jfigie> But i would have to do more research on the subject to really know.
[23:21:33] <jfigie> yes is doesnt protect the wire like you say
[23:21:55] <zeeshan> i hate having lose ends
[23:21:58] <zeeshan> *loose
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[23:22:07] <zeeshan> everything should be protected :D
[23:22:11] <jfigie> does the fan data sheet specify any wire size requirements?
[23:22:26] <zeeshan> says awg 22
[23:23:54] <jfigie> Sure fusing it wont hurt. You should also then have a temperature sensor in the cabinet to set a fault if the temperature is too high. from blocked fan, fan not running, drives running to much power etc
[23:24:18] <zeeshan> haha
[23:24:22] <zeeshan> thats a bit hardcore :)
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[23:24:52] <zeeshan> drives have internal fuses
[23:25:02] <zeeshan> the servo drives tha tis
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[23:26:28] <jfigie> Modern drives have temperature sensors and even run "thermal models" in FW of the motor and drive power devices.
[23:27:36] <jfigie> I mean modern industrial drives, that is.
[23:27:50] <zeeshan> yea vfds have thermal sensor
[23:27:57] <zeeshan> btw about the modbus vfd
[23:28:02] <zeeshan> i found the video where i show the screen
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[23:28:56] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PtuQcJ4prHE#t=39
[23:29:07] <zeeshan> pause at 0:39 :D
[23:29:33] <zeeshan> output torque meter is broken
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[23:30:41] <jfigie> ok
[23:31:12] <jfigie> I see an axis screen with a bunch of meters on the right.
[23:31:18] <zeeshan> yes
[23:31:30] <zeeshan> all those parameters are being communicated over modbus
[23:31:36] <zeeshan> drive temp etc
[23:31:48] <jfigie> from the drive. nice.
[23:34:17] <jfigie> did you do the retrofit?
[23:34:42] <jfigie> A lathe is my next project.
[23:35:08] <zeeshan> yea
[23:35:12] <zeeshan> it was a manual lathe converted over
[23:35:20] <zeeshan> kinda a bit of a pain in the ass cause there were no ball screws
[23:35:28] <zeeshan> and adapting a X axis ball screw is a big pain on a chinese lathe
[23:36:27] <jfigie> I have an old Clausing model 1550 NC. The iron and ball screws are like new but there are no controls. Only DC servomotors
[23:40:21] <jfigie> got to go - time to make supper
[23:42:55] <zeeshan> wow
[23:42:57] <zeeshan> thats a nice lathe.
[23:43:17] <zeeshan> we have the newer style at school
[23:43:41] <zeeshan> i fell in love with the clausing colchester lathes there :)
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