#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-12-14

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[00:01:13] <Valen> spade drill on Ti really?
[00:01:31] <Valen> colour me surprised ;->
[00:02:05] <Tom_itx> i'd like to see that
[00:03:36] <Valen> could be pure Ti perhaps
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[00:08:15] <tiwake> donno
[00:08:32] <tiwake> it worked really well
[00:08:39] <tiwake> then again, I went really slow... lol
[00:09:00] <tiwake> 250RPM, feed of 0.005"/rev
[00:09:09] <Tom_itx> lathe?
[00:09:15] <tiwake> yeah
[00:09:40] <tiwake> 1.125" carbide spade drill
[00:10:04] <Tom_itx> pics?
[00:10:37] <tiwake> on my phone
[00:10:42] <tiwake> a couple anyway
[00:11:05] <tiwake> just ran the boring bar
[00:11:11] <tiwake> it went rather well too
[00:11:25] <tiwake> need to run it again, bore is a bit small
[00:12:42] <tiwake> how much does titanium run anyway?
[00:13:02] <tiwake> if I want 1.5" bar, per pound
[00:13:12] <tiwake> is it like $10/lb?
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[00:15:22] <Tom_itx> https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=6777&step=4&showunits=inches&id=187&top_cat=0
[00:15:45] <Tom_itx> $300/ft
[00:16:35] <Tom_itx> expensive shot glass
[00:17:29] <tiwake> I've typically found onlinemetals to be over price by about double what I can typically get around here
[00:17:34] <[cube]> most titanium comes from china
[00:17:42] <[cube]> baoji province
[00:17:48] <[cube]> probably cheaper to import it
[00:17:52] <[cube]> aliexpress or something
[00:18:03] <[cube]> shipping is probably more reasonable than that
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[00:19:31] <[cube]> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/factory-sell-6Al-4V-TITANIUM-BAR-6-4-Titanium-round-bar-wholesale-price-Paypal-is-available/1973497251.html
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[01:32:44] <asah> anyone have a good place to buy carbon plate? a good supplier on alibaba? looking for something like 2mm thick, lalrgish sheets.
[01:32:53] <asah> tap has tube but no plate.
[01:36:28] <zeeshan> carbon fiber?
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[01:57:17] <asah> yes.
[01:58:15] <zeeshan> seems expensive on aliexpress :P
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[02:01:35] <zeeshan> anyone know where to buy a cable gland
[02:01:40] <zeeshan> that will fit in a 1 3/4" hole
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[02:24:59] <SpeedEvil> 2mm thick is going to be expensive.
[02:25:01] <SpeedEvil> how much?
[02:25:19] <SpeedEvil> In general, you'll be better sered using .5mm*2 and a core
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[02:46:29] <asah> I am looking to get a supply of various thicknesses probably a couple of square meters of each. but yeah, all the places seem really expensive.
[02:47:14] <asah> but I am able to buy cut products made from the stuff for less than I can buy the raw stock, which seems wrong. =)
[02:48:02] <zeeshan> asah is your machine running? :P
[02:48:14] <asah> ha! just got it all running today!
[02:48:19] <zeeshan> videos? :D
[02:48:21] <asah> you?
[02:48:24] <zeeshan> im far from it
[02:48:25] <zeeshan> :{
[02:48:26] <asah> no vids yet.
[02:48:42] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/16006673692/
[02:48:45] <zeeshan> just laying down the wiring
[02:48:45] <asah> got my two vfds up and can press a button and the tool changes
[02:49:01] <zeeshan> you did a physical switch right?
[02:49:08] <zeeshan> for the tool change
[02:49:08] <asah> I have plenty of tuning to do etc.
[02:49:11] <asah> yes, physical
[02:49:22] <zeeshan> check my logic out for hydraulic tool switch:
[02:49:31] <zeeshan> man i wish i could upload this pdf somewhwere
[02:49:32] <asah> that is looking like it is coming along.
[02:49:37] <asah> dropbox.
[02:49:48] <zeeshan> ill just tell you it :P
[02:49:53] <asah> k
[02:51:08] * zeeshan is reading the diagram i made
[02:51:39] <asah> ill share you a link to my python controller for it.
[02:51:54] <zeeshan> okay i have the tool change physical switch and a relay switch and solenoid in a 24v circuit.
[02:52:03] <zeeshan> the relay switch only closes if certain conditions are met
[02:52:26] <zeeshan> 1. pressure switch is closed (pressure is optimal for hydraulic tool change)
[02:52:32] <zeeshan> 2. spindle is not running
[02:52:45] <zeeshan> i forgot this 3rd condition :/
[02:52:48] <asah> https://bitbucket.org/asahammond/maho_config/raw/812943c21f7d19c2dbd8582f47fb0b3a5ee32a21/hydros_ctrl
[02:53:04] <zeeshan> cant see it
[02:53:17] <asah> try again
[02:54:57] <zeeshan> hey
[02:55:00] <zeeshan> we pretty much have the same logic :P
[02:55:09] <asah> cool.
[02:55:15] <asah> well, it works so far.
[02:55:18] <zeeshan> i think my wiring is a bit different.
[02:55:36] <asah> the rest of my config is there under the two_vfds branch.
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[02:55:41] <zeeshan> the tool change switch is parallel with: relay switch, hydrualic solenoid
[02:55:53] <zeeshan> but also in parallel with an input on the 7i77
[02:56:02] <zeeshan> so you have to hold the tool request button for a while
[02:56:06] <zeeshan> the vfd runs, pressure is built
[02:56:11] <zeeshan> and as long as the spindle isn't running
[02:56:12] <zeeshan> it'll release
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> asap you release the switch
[02:56:22] <zeeshan> vfd turns off
[02:56:32] <zeeshan> there is a delay timer so if someone decides to press the button again and again
[02:56:38] <zeeshan> rapidly. it'll stop the vfd from going crazy :P
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[02:59:17] <asah> I did another version that wasn’t in software, it was a pain.
[02:59:59] <zeeshan> your python script
[03:00:01] <zeeshan> is a component right
[03:00:02] <asah> do you have it runnign yet?
[03:00:04] <asah> yes.
[03:00:05] <zeeshan> no
[03:00:15] <zeeshan> possibly in 2 weeks
[03:00:21] <zeeshan> im still waiting on some electrical components
[03:00:25] <zeeshan> ive tested systems though
[03:00:27] <zeeshan> some systems
[03:00:27] <asah> no its not a component, its a userspace script
[03:00:32] <zeeshan> ah
[03:00:33] <asah> in python
[03:00:57] <zeeshan> i dont know python
[03:01:01] <zeeshan> i'll have to write it in C.
[03:01:09] <zeeshan> or rob your code :)
[03:01:19] <asah> rob away
[03:01:21] <asah> please
[03:01:47] <asah> python is pretty simple.
[03:01:51] <zeeshan> i apologize for the colors in advance
[03:01:52] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/s/abmmue9j5bwostk/Master%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf?dl=0
[03:01:55] <zeeshan> here is the circuit diagram
[03:03:11] <zeeshan> do you have a vogel lubricator
[03:03:18] <asah> yes.
[03:03:24] <zeeshan> cause that thing is a pain in the ass
[03:03:26] <asah> we have the same mill! practically
[03:03:31] <zeeshan> to work
[03:03:34] <asah> I thought the same thing.
[03:03:43] <zeeshan> what im doing right now is
[03:03:44] <asah> but I found all the docs.
[03:03:55] <asah> make sure you have enough lube in there.
[03:04:07] <asah> mine stopped working and it was just the lube level sensor.
[03:04:07] <asah> =)
[03:04:14] <zeeshan> pressure switch and fluid level indicator are in series and go to an input on the 7i77
[03:04:32] <zeeshan> then basically 7i77 output controls a relay which controls the lubricator
[03:04:55] <zeeshan> delay timer will be handled by linuxcnc
[03:05:11] <asah> mine has an onboard timer.
[03:05:15] <zeeshan> omg
[03:05:18] <zeeshan> so lucky :[
[03:05:21] <asah> you just power it and every 15 minites it fires
[03:05:27] <zeeshan> so its pretty much a standalon system
[03:05:29] <asah> what controller do you have?
[03:05:30] <zeeshan> you just gotta give it 110v?
[03:06:25] <asah> I have the IG38-30-I
[03:06:46] <asah> I think its 110.
[03:06:58] <asah> and 24v for the controller.
[03:07:16] <zeeshan> ofcourse i cant find the info
[03:07:19] <zeeshan> or the pic when i need it
[03:07:20] <zeeshan> haha
[03:07:27] <asah> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dke608r88a013dj/vogel_Controller_IG38-30-I_IZ38-30-I.pdf?dl=0
[03:07:43] <zeeshan> okay
[03:07:45] <zeeshan> yours is way different
[03:07:46] <zeeshan> haha
[03:07:50] <zeeshan> i dont have that circuit board
[03:07:52] <asah> ack.. sorry.
[03:08:00] <asah> well, timer in linuxcnc is the way to go then. =)
[03:08:07] <zeeshan> i dont have that pressure gauge either
[03:08:08] <zeeshan> :P
[03:08:33] <zeeshan> i was looking at replacing it with a self timed unit
[03:08:37] <zeeshan> but theyre really expensive!
[03:08:46] <asah> circuit diagram looks nice. but hate the colors. =)
[03:08:52] <zeeshan> haha
[03:08:56] <zeeshan> ill show you why i have colors
[03:09:09] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/lhtnwG9.png
[03:09:13] <zeeshan> its easier to view
[03:09:17] <zeeshan> and i can turn off the layers
[03:09:27] <zeeshan> so i can isolate the circuit of interest
[03:09:29] <asah> right.
[03:09:59] <zeeshan> btw
[03:10:06] <asah> I see you are doing searial control of vfds.
[03:10:06] <zeeshan> i blew up my speed selector board
[03:10:27] <zeeshan> yea, i think its a bit cleaner
[03:10:28] <asah> I went with relays
[03:10:29] <zeeshan> less wiring to deal with
[03:10:38] <asah> more reliable. =)
[03:10:43] <zeeshan> and you have a watchdog on the vfd to kill power
[03:10:46] <zeeshan> if comms drop
[03:11:03] <asah> it will be a good side by side comparison.
[03:11:14] <asah> see whos is more reliable. =)
[03:11:18] <zeeshan> haha
[03:11:30] <zeeshan> i currently use modbus control on the lathe
[03:11:31] <asah> funny cause I am more of the software guy I think…
[03:11:33] <zeeshan> seems to work ok
[03:11:41] <asah> cool.
[03:11:59] <asah> have no great experiences with modbus yet.
[03:12:11] <asah> my vfd is cheap cheap cheap though..
[03:12:18] <zeeshan> chinese one? :D
[03:12:23] <asah> yep
[03:12:26] <asah> ebay special
[03:12:36] <zeeshan> well im sure it has modbus
[03:12:41] <asah> that will probably die first.
[03:12:46] <asah> oh, it does.
[03:12:51] <asah> I just don’t trust it.
[03:13:07] <zeeshan> i honestly started trusting it when i worked at eaton
[03:13:15] <zeeshan> our customers use it in the mining industry
[03:13:17] <asah> I have an analog card so I can do variable speed.
[03:13:23] <zeeshan> they run serial cable for long ass conveyors
[03:13:53] <asah> cool.
[03:13:59] <asah> glad to hear its working.
[03:14:31] <zeeshan> im trying to find a screenshot of the lathe interface
[03:20:12] <zeeshan> this son of a..
[03:20:15] <zeeshan> i cant find the pic!
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[03:24:33] <asah> did you retrofit a spindle encoder?
[03:24:40] <zeeshan> yes
[03:24:45] <asah> (I see it on the diagram)
[03:24:54] <zeeshan> i still have to make a plate
[03:24:57] <zeeshan> bit it will be very similar to this:
[03:25:05] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/zOgYeo2.jpg
[03:25:07] <zeeshan> just with 3 sensors
[03:25:12] <zeeshan> a b and phase z
[03:25:25] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/jgJ3EZc.png
[03:25:37] <zeeshan> this is for the not so fancy black vfds in my enclosure
[03:25:44] <zeeshan> the one in the lathe, and the grey one
[03:25:51] <zeeshan> are lot more feature filled
[03:25:55] <zeeshan> like drive temp, load meter
[03:25:55] <zeeshan> etc
[03:26:01] <zeeshan> thats why i like modbus
[03:26:03] <asah> where are you going to mount the plate?
[03:26:48] <asah> nice. it would be good to get all that data.
[03:26:56] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15814597086/
[03:26:56] <asah> eventually Ill go that route.
[03:26:59] <zeeshan> where the original plate is
[03:27:02] <asah> I have other robots to build. =)
[03:27:12] <zeeshan> the gear train has about 6 thou backlash
[03:27:19] <zeeshan> so i will need to compensate for that
[03:27:33] <zeeshan> i couldnt find a good spot to put it directly w/ t he spindle
[03:27:46] <asah> yeah, my thoughts too.
[03:27:50] <zeeshan> plus with our mills
[03:27:53] <zeeshan> they're in both horizontal and vertical
[03:27:58] <asah> right.
[03:28:01] <zeeshan> so you really can only place it in one spot..
[03:28:43] <zeeshan> im pretty basic when it comes to programming
[03:28:44] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/jgJ3EZc.png
[03:28:52] <zeeshan> i can send you a component to start off with
[03:28:55] <zeeshan> it's very simplified...
[03:28:57] <asah> loocks clean.
[03:28:59] <zeeshan> so i can understand it :)
[03:29:46] <asah> how are you interfacing on the linux side?
[03:29:53] <asah> mesa stuff?
[03:29:53] <zeeshan> physically?
[03:30:02] <zeeshan> for modbus?
[03:30:03] <asah> serial
[03:30:04] <asah> yes
[03:30:10] <zeeshan> no mesa stuff
[03:30:26] <zeeshan> im using a serial db9 to rs485 converter
[03:30:36] <zeeshan> from the rs485 convter you have two wires D+ D-
[03:30:40] <zeeshan> that go to your vfd
[03:30:42] <asah> right.
[03:30:53] <asah> but you have several vfds no?
[03:31:03] <zeeshan> then the component in linuxcnc communicates over serial
[03:31:06] <zeeshan> yes
[03:31:14] <zeeshan> so it goes like this
[03:31:17] <asah> so many db9s on your box?
[03:31:21] <zeeshan> no
[03:31:22] <zeeshan> 1 only
[03:31:31] <zeeshan> all the D+ D- signals are parallel for each vfd
[03:31:33] <zeeshan> going out of the convter
[03:31:41] <zeeshan> *converter
[03:31:56] <zeeshan> lemme show you a diagram
[03:31:59] <zeeshan> better than words..
[03:32:16] <zeeshan> https://www.sumitomodrive.com/uploads/product/files/file-227.pdf
[03:32:36] <zeeshan> page 108
[03:32:38] <zeeshan> (of the pdf)
[03:32:44] <asah> reading : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modbus
[03:32:56] <asah> ok, I get it.
[03:33:04] <asah> like canbus.
[03:33:14] <zeeshan> a lot simpler :P
[03:33:16] <asah> thought it was more of a star.
[03:33:30] <asah> cool.
[03:33:46] <zeeshan> youre a programmer
[03:33:53] <zeeshan> i bet you can re-write the code
[03:34:00] <zeeshan> for your vfd in a couple hours :P
[03:35:06] <asah> Ill take the headstart gladly. =)
[03:35:19] <asah> but… many other projects are going to come first.
[03:35:23] <asah> I bet.
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[03:39:02] <zeeshan> i cant turn on the mill computer right now to extract the driver
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> too many live wires everywhere
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> haha
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> ill email it to you when i get it back up
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> i'd send the lathe one
[03:39:02] <zeeshan> but its got some bugs in it, that i fixed in the mill driver
[03:39:03] <zeeshan> i was making the mistake of handling the frequency to rpm conversion math within the driver
[03:39:03] <zeeshan> which is a bad way of doing it
[03:39:03] <zeeshan> you wanna use the scaling options in hal
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[03:39:27] <asah> np.
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[03:40:54] <zeeshan> asah do you have your speed control working?
[03:41:00] <zeeshan> i think i remember you telling me it was working
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[03:41:14] <asah> speed control, meaning gear selection?
[03:41:15] <zeeshan> yes
[03:42:07] <asah> I built another python controller to solve this issue. it was working last time I played with it. but I haven’t tried it again in like 6 months.
[03:42:35] <asah> I am just running at high speed all the time. I am mostly working in alu and delrin for prototypeing these days.
[03:42:41] <zeeshan> ah
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[03:43:01] <asah> it is a pretty complicated problem.
[03:43:35] <asah> more complex than it needs to be.
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[03:47:29] -orwell.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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[03:47:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan how'd you blow it up?
[03:47:57] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: you dont remember? :D
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[03:48:10] <Tom_itx> no, i was busy blowing up my own junk
[03:48:11] <zeeshan> i was reverse engineering it
[03:48:15] <Tom_itx> oh
[03:48:21] <zeeshan> and i suck at electronics
[03:48:22] <zeeshan> :-)
[03:48:24] <Tom_itx> well my board is toast
[03:48:28] <zeeshan> gave 24vdc where it shouldnt have gone
[03:48:35] <zeeshan> blew up the resistor
[03:48:37] <zeeshan> and voltage regulator
[03:48:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/7I43.jpg
[03:48:52] <Tom_itx> i got U9 & U10 replaced but U6 was a no go
[03:49:00] <Tom_itx> not the right output v from it
[03:49:08] <Tom_itx> i got 3.3v out U10
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[03:49:16] <Tom_itx> but the 1.2v supply is junk
[03:49:25] <Tom_itx> or something else is shorted
[03:49:46] <zeeshan> see when youre dealing with these "space saving" smt circuits
[03:49:51] <zeeshan> the traces of the pcb are so close
[03:49:54] <zeeshan> if one melts, wont they short?
[03:50:00] <Tom_itx> did you see the chips?
[03:50:08] <zeeshan> yea i see the chip u9
[03:50:11] <zeeshan> with its blown up face
[03:50:11] <zeeshan> :)
[03:50:24] <Tom_itx> U10 & U6 were the tricky ones to replace
[03:51:10] <asah> fun times.
[03:51:32] <Tom_itx> i think the other board is probably ok
[03:51:45] <Tom_itx> they weren't that bad to replace
[03:51:46] <asah> get out the dissecting scope
[03:51:51] <Tom_itx> i did
[03:52:08] <asah> makes soldering actually fun
[03:52:17] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/scope/scope1.jpg
[03:52:22] <Tom_itx> makes it easier for sure
[03:53:08] <asah> cool. similar to mine. fun to see small things huge and in stereo
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[03:53:20] <Tom_itx> what power is yours?
[03:53:28] <Tom_itx> that one is 7x45
[03:53:28] <asah> not sure…
[03:53:34] <asah> I have a couple
[03:53:44] <asah> one is multi lens.
[03:55:00] <asah> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/superb-Wild-Heerbrugg-M5-stereomicroscope-/331383837931?pt=UK_Collectables_Scientific_MJ&hash=item4d280414eb
[03:55:08] <asah> is one.
[03:55:57] <asah> 50x max
[03:55:58] <Tom_itx> i like the swing arm on mine. lets me put the work where it's easier to work on
[03:56:10] <Tom_itx> i use mine on 7 most of the time
[03:56:11] <asah> yeah, mine is actually on a swing arm.
[03:56:26] <asah> so fun to look at everything in that thing.
[03:56:31] <Tom_itx> 45 and you don't get much viewing area
[03:56:40] <asah> my kid loves it.
[03:56:48] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:57:00] <zeeshan> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/CA2011/P0203.pdf
[03:57:03] <zeeshan> hey do you guys know
[03:57:10] <zeeshan> "crimp terminal" i would need
[03:57:17] <zeeshan> for the connector top right
[03:57:27] <zeeshan> i cant tell what the diff is between fig 1 and fig2 for the terminals.
[03:57:30] <zeeshan> they look the same to me
[03:57:31] <zeeshan> lol
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[03:58:38] <Tom_itx> they should be listed with the housings
[03:58:42] <Tom_itx> hang on...
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[04:00:12] <Tom_itx> fig1 & fig2 are different hold mechanisms
[04:00:19] <zeeshan> for the physical wire?
[04:00:20] <Tom_itx> where they snap into the hole
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[04:00:28] <Tom_itx> no where they locate in the connector
[04:00:38] <Tom_itx> you need to make sure you get the right ones
[04:00:41] <zeeshan> how am i supposed to know
[04:00:43] <zeeshan> which one is the right one?
[04:00:47] <Tom_itx> i'd call and ask em
[04:01:05] <Tom_itx> i have a bag of WM2511
[04:01:34] <zeeshan> http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/22-55-2121/WM2523-ND/171967
[04:01:38] <zeeshan> i need the correct terminal for this type of connector
[04:01:51] <zeeshan> on that page
[04:02:00] <zeeshan> under mating products, it says both fig 1 and fig 2 styles will work
[04:02:07] <zeeshan> when you cross-refrrence the part numbers with the catalog
[04:02:22] <Tom_itx> well maybe either one would snap in then
[04:02:38] <Tom_itx> look close though and you can see they are different
[04:02:47] <Tom_itx> i'd probably go with fig1 myself
[04:02:53] <zeeshan> ok fig 1 it is
[04:02:54] <zeeshan> :P
[04:02:54] <Tom_itx> it's got more pin contact
[04:03:01] <Tom_itx> look at it...
[04:03:08] <zeeshan> yep
[04:03:11] <zeeshan> its got pin contact
[04:03:15] <zeeshan> that surrounds the entire terminal
[04:03:17] <zeeshan> unlike fig 2
[04:03:42] <Tom_itx> some holes are spaced higher or lower on the connector is what you gotta look out for
[04:03:58] <Tom_itx> those are probably all compatible since they're on the same page
[04:04:24] <Tom_itx> you can get a crimper from radio shack for like $5-6 bucks for them
[04:04:37] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: i actually bought the crimper locally
[04:04:40] <zeeshan> you know whats weird?
[04:04:47] <zeeshan> its the EXACT same as what i use in the race car connectors
[04:04:50] <zeeshan> which i already had a crimper for
[04:04:56] <zeeshan> all the gm metri-pack connectors
[04:05:05] <zeeshan> delphi connectors use the same style crimper as molex
[04:06:55] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/how_to/atmega168/mega168_howto_main_index.php
[04:07:04] <Tom_itx> i put heatshrink over em and use em like that too
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[04:08:28] <Connor> zeeshan: http://www.radioshack.com/d-sub-pin-crimper/2761595.html#q=crimper&start=2
[04:08:36] <Connor> I use those for that style of pins
[04:09:03] <Tom_itx> yup
[04:09:08] <Tom_itx> i've gone thru a couple of those
[04:09:18] <Tom_itx> price has gone up a bit
[04:09:33] <Connor> They work for JST too.
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[04:12:43] <skunkworks> Connor: did you get the package yet?
[04:12:45] <zeeshan> nice
[04:13:14] <Connor> skunkworks: Oh yea. sorry. I did get it.. got it yesterday. Thank you so very much.. Been a bit side tracked with the mold in the crawl space issues..
[04:13:32] <skunkworks> great!
[04:13:51] <Connor> I hope shipping wasn't too much.. I can reimb if needed.
[04:14:12] <zeeshan> man i hope im not forgetting anything from digikey
[04:14:28] <Tom_itx> you are
[04:14:29] <Connor> zeeshan: What are you building ?
[04:14:37] <zeeshan> cnc controller still
[04:14:44] <zeeshan> i needed those molex connectors
[04:14:47] <zeeshan> for the interpolators
[04:14:49] <zeeshan> and some cable glands
[04:14:59] <zeeshan> and some iec right angle cables
[04:15:06] <Connor> You going to get some wire furrels ?
[04:15:08] <Tom_itx> just open another order right now...
[04:15:13] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: rofl
[04:15:20] <Tom_itx> soon as you click send you'll remember
[04:15:33] <zeeshan> connor all my wires go to a pin pad
[04:15:42] <Tom_itx> you know you can call them?
[04:15:43] <Connor> pin pad ?
[04:15:49] <zeeshan> padded terminal i mean
[04:15:49] <Tom_itx> probably 24/7
[04:15:50] <zeeshan> not pin pad
[04:16:10] <zeeshan> nice
[04:16:12] <Connor> still not sure what your refereeing too..
[04:16:39] <zeeshan> http://assets.suredone.com/1742/media-tms/52778-a-b-allen-bradley-1492-fb3c30-l-3-pole-fuse-block-fuse-holder-class-cc-30-amp-7.jpg
[04:16:40] <zeeshan> those things
[04:16:43] <zeeshan> for fuse holders for example..
[04:16:48] <zeeshan> they come in two styles
[04:17:01] <zeeshan> padded and "regular <- i forgot the correct wording"
[04:17:11] <zeeshan> when its padded, you can stick wire in there without using ferrules
[04:17:28] <zeeshan> if its not, then you need ferrules by csa code
[04:17:46] <Connor> I would still use wire furrels.. just keeps the wires from breaking and provide some strain relief.
[04:18:14] <zeeshan> yea but what if your crimp fails :P
[04:18:37] <Connor> Umm.. If you crimp those right.. and use the right pin for the gauge or wire.. it won't
[04:18:38] <zeeshan> you can always solder the end of the wire
[04:18:41] <zeeshan> to stop it from faying
[04:18:48] <zeeshan> connor
[04:18:50] <zeeshan> i can put money on this
[04:18:58] <zeeshan> go stick a proper wire in a ferrule in a vise
[04:19:00] <Connor> Yea, but, then you loose the relief asepect
[04:19:08] <zeeshan> and put a cc fuse holder in a wise without a ferrule
[04:19:14] <zeeshan> and stick a 100lb weight off each one
[04:19:18] <zeeshan> see which one gives up first :P
[04:20:10] <zeeshan> i remember at eaton crimped fittings were a pain in the ass
[04:20:15] <zeeshan> for it to be CSA approved
[04:20:24] <zeeshan> you had to use the exact same brand crimping tool as the crimps
[04:20:35] <zeeshan> even though it was standard crimp fitting, say a spade connector
[04:21:21] <zeeshan> connor tell me what im forgetting
[04:21:22] <zeeshan> :-(
[04:21:26] <zeeshan> i dont wanna place an order twice
[04:21:28] <Connor> I have no idea.
[04:21:50] <Tom_itx> i'm tellin ya man, you'll never get it all in one order!
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[04:22:19] <zeeshan> haha
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[04:22:54] <zeeshan> is there such thing other than coaxial cable that you use for bnc
[04:22:58] <zeeshan> where you have say a 24 awg wire
[04:23:00] <zeeshan> with a shield around it
[04:23:02] <zeeshan> single conductor
[04:23:11] <Connor> LMR
[04:23:30] <Connor> It's for Radio and wireless stuff
[04:23:40] <zeeshan> lets say i have one wire going from 7i77
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[04:23:46] <zeeshan> to say a limit switches one plug
[04:24:12] <Tom_itx> get me a stick of din rail while you're ordering
[04:24:19] <zeeshan> you can have mine
[04:24:23] <Tom_itx> i swear i have some around here somewhere
[04:24:24] <zeeshan> i have some extra that ill never use again
[04:24:26] <Connor> But, LMR is solid core..
[04:24:31] <zeeshan> yes connor exactly :(
[04:25:15] <Tom_itx> i use some surplus wire i got locally for my limits
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[04:25:55] <Connor> http://www.fairviewmicrowave.com/rg58-flexible-coax-cable-pvc-jacket-rg58cu-p.aspx?gclid=Cj0KEQiA5K-kBRDZ9r71gOvlxOMBEiQAwkK52ARTkjXfP4G48JLGH7xJ_QgkWo5MTpINc7ftRlR8uL8aAqnQ8P8HAQ
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[04:25:59] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/wire.jpg
[04:26:00] <Tom_itx> good wire
[04:26:02] <Connor> you can get flexable coax cable...
[04:26:55] <zeeshan> thatsa saexy wire
[04:27:05] <zeeshan> looks like its meajnt for thermocouple wiring
[04:27:05] <zeeshan> hehe
[04:27:14] <Tom_itx> probably aircraft
[04:27:49] <Tom_itx> all shielded and fine braid
[04:27:50] * zeeshan clicks order
[04:27:52] <zeeshan> :-(
[04:27:59] <[cube]> :x
[04:28:15] <Tom_itx> did you get GND straps?
[04:28:20] <zeeshan> gnd straps?!
[04:28:35] <zeeshan> NOOOOOOOOO
[04:28:43] <[cube]> uh oh
[04:28:43] <zeeshan> FUCK
[04:28:54] <zeeshan> i forgot to order insulated spade terminals
[04:28:57] <[cube]> maybe you can call it in
[04:28:58] <Tom_itx> did you want to?
[04:29:12] <Tom_itx> you can get the spade terminals from the auto supply
[04:29:16] <zeeshan> yes
[04:29:19] <zeeshan> but that means driving there
[04:29:21] <zeeshan> :(
[04:29:31] <Tom_itx> call digikey then
[04:29:39] <Tom_itx> that's the nice thing about them
[04:29:46] <Tom_itx> there's somebody there most of the time
[04:30:53] <zeeshan> using their live online chat
[04:30:53] <zeeshan> haha
[04:31:07] <Connor> So, anyone know anything about RV's ?
[04:31:22] <zeeshan> connor ofcourse
[04:31:25] <Connor> We're going to be staying in one for around 2 weeks...
[04:31:28] <zeeshan> you go on long trips on em
[04:31:28] <Tom_itx> they're money pits
[04:31:36] <Connor> parked next to the house...
[04:31:54] <Connor> I need to figure out how to provide a power to it.
[04:32:04] <Tom_itx> get a 3 prong adapter
[04:32:29] <zeeshan> this is my first order from digikey
[04:32:33] <zeeshan> that isn't for school
[04:32:33] <Tom_itx> oh?
[04:32:35] <Connor> Can they run on a standard 15amp 120v ?
[04:32:46] <Tom_itx> depends on the RV
[04:32:53] <Tom_itx> i ran mine off it
[04:32:57] <zeeshan> connor cant you run an extension cable
[04:32:59] <zeeshan> from the house?
[04:33:15] <Tom_itx> i got a heavy cord for mine just for that
[04:33:42] <Connor> I've got some large gauge wire for a generator I never used.. I was thinking of wiring it into the Hot water heater 220v and running that out to the RV
[04:34:01] <Connor> Won't be needing the hot water heater for a while.. so...
[04:34:10] <Tom_itx> that would probably work ok
[04:35:20] <Connor> I just hope I can get it up the driveway and on level ground.
[04:35:33] <Connor> otherwise it would have to be done in the road.. which, isn't ideal.
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[04:35:36] <Tom_itx> block it up with 2x
[04:35:45] <Tom_itx> and wheel chocks
[04:36:05] <Tom_itx> is it a 5th wheel or motorized?
[04:36:06] <Connor> http://www.cruiseamerica.com/rent/our_vehicles/large_rv.aspx
[04:36:13] <Connor> that's what we're looking at
[04:37:07] <zeeshan> connor is this cause of the mold removsl
[04:37:09] <zeeshan> that will be occuring?
[04:37:18] <Connor> zeeshan: yes
[04:37:21] <zeeshan> fak rv then
[04:37:24] <zeeshan> just setup a tent outside
[04:37:28] <zeeshan> cheaper
[04:37:31] <zeeshan> its only 2 weeks :P
[04:37:46] <Connor> yea, try that with 5 dogs, and a wife with medical issues
[04:37:52] <zeeshan> doh
[04:38:06] <Tom_itx> put the dogs in the yard
[04:38:19] <zeeshan> doesnt your insurance give you
[04:38:28] <zeeshan> money for temporary relocation?
[04:38:35] <Connor> insurance isn't covering this.
[04:38:38] <zeeshan> oh
[04:39:44] <zeeshan> do you have parents?
[04:39:51] <zeeshan> or brothers/sisters?
[04:39:57] <zeeshan> live there :D
[04:40:47] <Connor> too far away to be practical.. and again, 5 dogs.. which need to be kept in fenced in yard when we let them out..
[04:40:56] <Connor> we're the only ones with fenced in yard.
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[04:42:00] <zeeshan> you have a lot of dogs
[04:42:01] <zeeshan> :)
[04:42:48] <Tom_itx> they don't have a limit on them there?
[04:43:07] <Connor> 5 is the limit in the county, 4 in the city.
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[07:09:13] <t12_> whats the correct name name of this kind of square: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Mzc1WDUwMA==/$T2eC16hHJHoE9n3KhWyOBP4u0-DyIw~~60_12.JPG
[07:09:25] <t12_> where its the same thickness and not an insert peice
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[07:33:39] <archivist> t12_, never seen any other name for the variations yet
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[08:04:54] <Deejay> moin
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[08:57:45] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:00:58] <Loetmichel> *HA* NICE! i had "rewiring my sisters house further" on my agenda today... just climbed out of the bathtub and called my sister (who lives 220km away): no work 'til after the holidays... GREAT! LAZY SUNDAY!!!!1111 (unless my wife finds something to do for me ;-)
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[09:06:33] <Loetmichel> that wiring is a PITA tho... my sisters 'husband to be' insists that it is done in a way that can converted to a Housebus without another rewiring... had cost me some gray hairs already ;-) ...i.E: ANY outlet/lamp/switch will have a seperate Bus wire and all 'in-wall-boxes' will be the deep ones to accomodate the sensors/actors for the bus system beside the standard outlets and switches.
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[11:26:53] <archivist> I wonder when copec will fix his connection
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[11:36:05] <Loetmichel> i dont think its the connection
[11:36:15] <Loetmichel> i think he is spamming somewhere
[11:36:21] <Loetmichel> may be inadvertly
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[11:37:42] <archivist> some clients get that error on freenode due to the way they join
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[11:57:57] <CaptHindsight> https://www.openmotics.com/shop/ http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/Modules open source PLC hardware that I can't seem to find the schematics for
[11:59:18] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/openmotics/hardware hiding in the Git tree
[12:02:11] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/OMHGW
[12:02:54] <CaptHindsight> heh BBB + Pic and some IO
[12:04:44] <archivist> power modules seems expensive
[12:07:07] <archivist> and most naughty, seems only to work via their cloud and the gateway module
[12:07:55] <CaptHindsight> ah, I was looking for their gimmick
[12:08:46] <archivist> I spotted in the power module info "requires gateway"
[12:10:16] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.openmotics.com/index.php/Main_Page#Modules
[12:10:34] <CaptHindsight> The Pic Basic Pro compiler however is not for free so we ask everyone to play fair and to purchase the compiler (PBP Gold edition that supports the Microchip 18F) from www.melabs.com. For people not interested in programming or doesn't want to purchase the compiler, the HEX code of all modules can be downloaded as well.
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[12:39:58] <jthornton> morning
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[14:52:46] <SolarNRG> hi guys
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[14:53:44] <SolarNRG> yesterday somebody suggested I cut of 90% of the teeth off my hole saw so I did that with the angle grinder and I then managed to cut thru this 8mm mild steel no problem :p http://i.imgur.com/O9GDgAV.jpg
[14:54:41] <SpeedEvil> Me.
[14:54:43] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:54:51] <bedah> blurry image is blurry
[14:55:01] <Tom_itx> gonna weld the race in place now?
[14:55:02] <SolarNRG> I've cut out some sections of angle iron with 64mm holes in each but the bearings are 62mm in diam so there's a bit of give, if I take the inner bearing out like on the right of that photo and tac it with the arc welder will it affect the smooth running of the bearing if I put the inner bearing back in after I've welded it to the hole?
[14:55:30] <SolarNRG> sorry ipad is broke, camera got stolen, lamp's bulb just died and I had to take the photo with the webcam best I could do sorry
[14:55:53] <archivist> wtf, never weld bearings unless you want to scrap them
[14:56:06] <Tom_itx> i _was_ kidding...
[14:56:22] <SolarNRG> on the right the bearing is out but the race is still in, if I weld the race without the inner bearing in there when I weld will it still be useless?
[14:56:25] <Tom_itx> based on the precision hole though..
[14:56:43] <Tom_itx> pretty much yes
[14:56:54] <SolarNRG> IDK if 5 teeth either side was too many or too few but it cut thru that steel real nice, thanks speedevil
[14:57:30] <SolarNRG> any suggestions how to hold the bearing in place without welding the trace then?
[14:57:35] <SpeedEvil> Simple idea is that it effectively ups your drill-presses torque and head pressure by 10fold
[14:57:39] <Tom_itx> press fit
[14:58:23] <archivist> he can only manage piss fit with those techniques
[14:58:24] <SolarNRG> also reduced the heating loads too :)
[14:58:42] <Tom_itx> i can imagine the alignment too
[14:58:48] <SolarNRG> the diy shop only had 60mm hole saw and 64mm hole saw, the bearing does fit loosely into the hole
[14:59:10] <archivist> use self aligning bearings
[14:59:22] <archivist> they bolt on
[15:00:40] <SolarNRG> i don't have self aligning bearings
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[15:02:05] <SolarNRG> can I tap the bearing racing to the angle iron?
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[15:04:29] <archivist> define tap, threading tap or large hammer "tap"
[15:04:53] <archivist> tack is the welding term
[15:05:00] <SolarNRG> threading tap
[15:05:37] <SolarNRG> like drill vertically itno the angle iron then threading it then screwing bolts into it to secure the racing
[15:06:04] <archivist> depends on the direction and clamping
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[15:06:34] * archivist imagines an oval race
[15:08:07] <archivist> there must be an engineering school nearby so SolarNRG can get taught the basics
[15:09:56] <archivist> and after a google, yes there is
[15:15:00] <SolarNRG> to be fair if I had the cash to pay for engineering schooling I'd do it as it would give me access to better tooling to make what I want better if only I didn't have a 2 year old girl to look after and work a part time job
[15:17:23] <SolarNRG> perhaps I should just bite the bullet and accept I'm never gonna build myself a working CNC machine
[15:21:21] <archivist> you can clamp the outer between two flat sheets http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_11_27_barber_colman/IMG_1855.JPG
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[15:24:49] <archivist> I do not rate angle iron as flat or square though (it is usually tapered on the inner angle)
[15:27:52] <SolarNRG> thanks for that image archivist, that's really educational, seems instead of trying to "slot in" the bearing you are "sandwiching" the bearing instead
[15:28:42] <archivist> yes, but those plates are machined flat, not rough angle iron
[15:29:46] <SolarNRG> I got flat sheet too, so really I want like 4 sheets of 8mm mild steel 100mmx100mm but with smaller hole in the middle of each right?
[15:30:34] <archivist> it depends on what you are making, think and design for the loads and the load direction
[15:30:43] <SolarNRG> seems as though those bits of angle iron I made now are a bit useless
[15:32:02] <SolarNRG> but ok I'll take this as a learning exercise in using hole saws with fewer teeth
[15:32:42] <SolarNRG> so 4 plates, each plate has 4 12mm holes in for the thread to sandwich the bearing in and one hole big enough for the acme thread?
[15:34:11] <SolarNRG> archivist: on a different note there seems to be some sort of adaptor between the acme thread and the stepped motor on the right of the "sandwich" can u please elaborate a bit about this thing?
[15:35:06] <archivist> that is a flexible to the stepper motor
[15:36:10] <SolarNRG> I take it they gotta be bought they can't be made
[15:37:03] <archivist> anything can be made, the skill level needed is variable
[15:38:06] <pcw_home> very simple flexible couplings a can be made from rubber tubing/hose
[15:38:19] <SolarNRG> archivist I like ur style "anything can be made" :)
[15:38:58] <SolarNRG> ok I'm gonna be attaching nema 34's that I already got to the acme thread once I've sorted out the bearings assemblies
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[15:41:28] <SolarNRG> my thoughts were a bit of roundbar with one 8mm hole in one end but 4 laterall 4mm holes for grub screws and tap thread them so the motor rotor is a snug fit and the other end two pins that would slot into the acme thread that I'd drill
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[15:42:20] <archivist> a rigid connection will fail
[15:42:29] <SolarNRG> why?
[15:43:00] <SolarNRG> something to do with rotational forces?
[15:43:04] <archivist> because all your bearings are not absolutely in line
[15:43:27] <archivist> that is why people use a flexible
[15:43:36] <SolarNRG> ur right there even the best machines will be out by like 0.00001 and what I'm building if I get it lined up to under a mm I'm happy
[15:44:59] <archivist> when lining up an engine I try to get better than a thou, 3 thou is a limit
[15:45:59] <SolarNRG> thousandths of a mm?
[15:46:09] <archivist> inch
[15:46:34] <SolarNRG> so we talking tens hundreds of micrometers then
[15:46:42] <SolarNRG> hairs widths
[15:46:47] <archivist> 3 ton flywheel on a twin cylinder diesel
[15:47:08] <SolarNRG> yeah the more misaligned that is the more its gonna shake the ground down
[15:48:52] <archivist> one puts a dti between the webs http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Fork_and_blade_connecting_rod%2C_Brush_diesel%2C_Snibston.jpg/1024px-Fork_and_blade_connecting_rod%2C_Brush_diesel%2C_Snibston.jpg
[15:49:33] <SolarNRG> what do u use to ensure alignment? laser?
[15:50:02] <archivist> a dti
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[15:50:24] <archivist> top right picture for a complete one http://brush-oilengines.webeden.co.uk/#/history/4575541140
[15:52:39] <SolarNRG> loughborough midlands uk or the town somewhere in america named after it?
[15:52:47] <archivist> and the wollaton one http://brush-oilengines.webeden.co.uk/#/survivors/4578481015 is the one I set up
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[15:55:04] <SolarNRG> I take it there's good money in repairing old engines
[15:55:28] <archivist> none at all
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[16:01:30] <pfred1> I'd still like to firebomb the shop that rebuilt my engine
[16:01:50] <SolarNRG> did they do a crap job?
[16:02:10] <pfred1> I was going down the highway and one of my freezeout plugs fell out of the block
[16:02:20] <pfred1> that of course completely destroyed it
[16:02:36] <pcw_home> Same Brush that made headphones?
[16:02:41] <pfred1> they put those lugs in too
[16:02:45] <pfred1> plugs even
[16:02:55] <SolarNRG> I got my car "fixed" from one garage, wheel flew off on the motorway nearly got killed by a lorry
[16:03:25] <pfred1> when I went back them they said, oh, we should have pinned those for you
[16:03:34] <pfred1> I was like thanks for giving me that option now
[16:03:57] <pfred1> then they siad, no guarantee for that high performance work good luck!
[16:04:13] <pfred1> yeah i never saw a freezeout plug move so fast before
[16:04:15] <Rab> SolarNRG, that is a monster thrust bearing for a home CNC.
[16:05:00] <pfred1> SolarNRG if that engine didn't blow up on me then I'd have probably killed myself in that car anyways so perhaps it was for the best?
[16:05:22] <Rab> SolarNRG, will it sustain a lot of force in your application, or did that bearing just fit the cheap/available sweet spot? It looks like an automotive bearing.
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[16:09:00] <SolarNRG> rab, that bearings is all the engineering shop had that would fit and I figured if I'm gonna be milling steel with my final machine it'll handle a lot of kick and force
[16:09:11] <SolarNRG> I mean my daughter's bashed the sh!t out of it and it still rotates fine
[16:09:22] <SolarNRG> this ain't no skate bearing for sure
[16:09:25] <Rab> Indeed.
[16:10:40] <Rab> I was gonna suggest, if it's only going to be subjected to forces lighter than the intended application, you might get away with slathering JB Weld all over to hold the race in the bracket.
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[16:12:25] <Rab> I don't think clamping will work, because the bearing cage rides higher than the outer race. The hole in your clamp plate would need to be just the right diameter to clear the cage, while still holding the outer race captive.
[16:14:01] <Rab> Screws through the bracket might work, as you suggested. Again, for light duty only.
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[16:14:52] <Rab> Where light duty is defined as less than, like, a car axle.
[16:15:30] <pfred1> if we had bearigns that were a little loose we'd engrave the outside race to make them a snug fit
[16:15:46] <pfred1> just like write a bunch of X's around it
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[16:16:55] <archivist> pcw_home, I think there was some historical relation between the american and british brush companies
[16:18:40] <varesa> What is a typical/good spindle pwm frequency?
[16:26:44] <pcw_home> Middle C
[16:27:14] <Rab> 261.6Hz?
[16:27:15] <SolarNRG> jb weld?
[16:27:46] <Rab> SolarNRG, maybe it's a US thing...2-part metal-bearing epoxy: http://www.jbweld.com/
[16:28:17] <SolarNRG> oh a bit like araldite in europe
[16:28:21] <SolarNRG> 2 part epoxy
[16:28:55] <varesa> I'm working on a board to read in that PWM and drive the thyristors for the spindle that are part of the stock controller
[16:29:20] <varesa> Need to know what speed it would output at to configure the pwm input on this board :)
[16:29:34] <pcw_home> varesa: it really depends on what the PWM is used for
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[16:30:17] <varesa> pcw_home: a simple speed control, no feedpack or anything like that
[16:30:37] <varesa> feedback*
[16:30:59] <pcw_home> if its to be converted to analog it depends on your filter (also software generated PWM has to be low frequency if you want much resolution)
[16:31:00] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure optimal pwm has to do with the inductance of the motor being driven
[16:31:35] <varesa> pfred1: it's not the drive frequency, just the information to my driver board
[16:31:45] <pcw_home> is this driving a Thyristor control tha has analog inputs?
[16:32:01] <varesa> pcw_home: it just has two diodes and two thyristors :)
[16:32:30] <pcw_home> but what controls the gate drive?
[16:32:41] <varesa> my board I'm making
[16:32:44] <jfigie> pwm for motors can be anywhere from 100-120 Hz for thyristor drives to 20 KHz for FET drives
[16:33:12] <pcw_home> and 50 KHz or > for high performance drives
[16:33:26] <varesa> I made a board with isolated zero crossing detectors, pwm input and thyristor drivers
[16:33:35] <jfigie> yep depends on the size of the motor and drive
[16:33:56] <pcw_home> Ahh this not really PWM but phase control
[16:33:57] <jfigie> small motors and drives can run at higher frequencies
[16:34:02] <varesa> so to get some resolution from software pwm I should be using something 100hz-ish?
[16:34:59] <pcw_home> if you are using a analog input to do phase control yeah 100 Hz or so and then a filter
[16:35:32] <jfigie> large drives using IGBTs might be from 2KHz to 20 KHZ. Larger drives run slower because of higher switching losses
[16:35:40] <pcw_home> if you are driving the gates directly from linuxCNC you need to user a timer/oneshot component
[16:35:59] <pcw_home> (and sync on power line)
[16:36:24] <pcw_home> Yeah high performance drives dont use IGBTs (too slow)
[16:36:38] <varesa> pcw_home: a mcu on my board does the power line sync + gate driving, I just wondered about the frequency between PC and MCU
[16:36:49] <jfigie> depends on the motor size
[16:37:20] <jfigie> if > several Kw to 100s of KW they all use IGBTs
[16:37:47] <pcw_home> Yeas Mosfet drives are limited to a maybe 5 KW before they get too expensive
[16:38:22] <pcw_home> but much better performamce
[16:40:27] <jfigie> the required frequency also has to do with the system inertia. There is no need to run at 50 Khz if the inertial is large. There is no need to close the current loops that fast.
[16:40:43] <jfigie> inertia*
[16:41:12] <pcw_home> Sure (but depends on required accuracy)
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[16:42:56] <SolarNRG> quick question regarding IGBTs never used them at Uni, too high power health and safety wouldn't let us use them, but does the principle of the "darlington pair" still apply? I.e. you use a chain of gradually more and more powerful transistors so a tiny 5v on can trigger a 240v 70 amp on for instance?
[16:43:37] <pcw_home> IGBTs are voltage operated devices like MOSFETS
[16:43:54] <pcw_home> so typically just used a gate drive IC
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[16:44:42] <pfred1> yeah mosfets are paralleled
[16:44:56] <SolarNRG> Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor :) See I do remember my lectures
[16:44:56] <pfred1> the gate is so sensitive
[16:44:59] <pcw_home> They use a combination of a MOSFET and a bipolar transistor on a single die
[16:45:17] <pfred1> want more power use more in parallel
[16:46:02] <SolarNRG> what about solid state relays?
[16:46:18] <SolarNRG> or are they only for AC?
[16:46:18] <pfred1> TI makes a dirve they use 7,000 in parallel
[16:46:23] <jfigie> yes one problem with darlington is high saturation voltage this make them unsuitable for high current
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[16:47:02] <pcw_home> They tend to be slow also
[16:47:22] <SolarNRG> so they're ok for making PID controlled hotplates for brewing hooch for xmas but they're crap for stepper motors etc
[16:47:55] <pfred1> seems i have to run my stepper slowly anyways for any accuracy
[16:47:59] <pcw_home> Lots of old unipolar drives used Darlingtons
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[16:48:18] <pfred1> pcw_home were they bipolar?
[16:48:18] <pcw_home> modern Step drives all use MOSFETs AFAIK
[16:48:23] <pfred1> like regular transistors?
[16:48:23] <jfigie> yes is took a while for MOSETS to progress to where they were better
[16:48:38] <SolarNRG> I had to solder darlingtons to make 2 H-bridges for a little robot for my 2nd year project
[16:49:15] <jfigie> Darlingtons also tend to be slow to turn off
[16:49:24] <SolarNRG> but quicker than relays!
[16:49:24] <jfigie> compared to MOSFETs
[16:49:40] <pfred1> mosfets tend to blow up better
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[16:50:50] <pfred1> with an H bridge slow can be good
[16:51:05] <pcw_home> In my experience MOSFETs are tougher (big Bipolar transistors are very easy to damage with secondary breakdown)
[16:51:21] <SolarNRG> BJTs?
[16:51:46] <pfred1> I remember when you could just look at a FET wrong and it'd blow out
[16:52:00] <SolarNRG> MOSFETs are pretty standardized nowadays
[16:52:12] <pfred1> FETs are what caused concern about ESD
[16:52:17] <SolarNRG> I was told npn was the standard and pnp was dead
[16:52:27] <SolarNRG> how the transistor was layered
[16:53:01] <pfred1> do not remove grounding wire until component is inserted into circuit
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[16:53:38] <SolarNRG> oh yeah static shocks and all that before we all had rubber soled shoes
[16:54:02] <pfred1> before clamp diodes too
[16:54:16] <jfigie> If you exceed the gate voltage rating on MOSFETs it may do permanent damage
[16:54:25] <jfigie> insulation breaks down
[16:54:54] <pcw_home> Little MOSFETS are easy to kill with ESD bigger ones have enough gate capacitance that its harder
[16:54:56] <jfigie> It has a high input impedance so it is easy to do
[16:55:04] <pfred1> one good thing about where I live now static really isn't an issue here at all too humid
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[16:59:34] <pfred1> I got my machine back together last night and i am running some example files with a pen and my pen holder is wobbly
[17:00:05] <pfred1> like i can see the pen bending while the file is being drawn
[17:03:22] <pfred1> snowflake.ngc kicks my machine's ass
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[17:22:25] <SolarNRG> pfred1, got any photos?
[17:22:54] <pfred1> only of the first bad run
[17:23:06] <pfred1> since then I haven't taken any more pictures
[17:23:32] <SolarNRG> u no we learn more from our mistakes than our sucesses
[17:23:55] <pfred1> I still have not figured out what I've learned yet other than making a CNC machine is harder than it looks
[17:24:57] <Cylly> pfred1: is it?
[17:25:03] <Cylly> cant say that...
[17:25:05] <Cylly> ;-)
[17:25:11] <pfred1> you can see the lines do not meet up and the pattern is distorted http://i.imgur.com/ATX29wd.jpg
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[17:25:36] <pfred1> Loetmichel perhaps i should amplify my statement making an economical CNC machine is not easy
[17:25:50] <Loetmichel> hmm, that looks like the pen distrorting
[17:26:01] <Loetmichel> dit you press it to hard to the surface maybe?
[17:26:08] <pfred1> yeah the writing tool drags
[17:26:24] <pfred1> so far all of the holders I've made are poor I suppose
[17:26:45] <pfred1> I can see the writing instrument bending around and what have you
[17:27:09] <Loetmichel> i can imagine it from the pattern it painted
[17:27:38] <Loetmichel> its very typical for a tool that bends out of the center because its pressed to hard to the surface
[17:27:51] <pfred1> yeah so I don't know how much is caused by that and how much by the machine itself I think it is a combination of the two
[17:28:37] <pfred1> it does the spiral example pretty good though
[17:28:56] <pfred1> but this snowflake is going to be the death of me to get it to do it
[17:29:46] <pfred1> it doesn't even do the LinuxCNC splash screen very well
[17:30:16] <Loetmichel> tip: use an edding fineliner with the 0,3mm tip, get a snug fitting tubearound it, bend the tube at the lower end a bit so it cant fall out and let the press-on be done by gravity
[17:30:28] <Loetmichel> so just trhow the fioneliner into the tube
[17:30:31] <Loetmichel> from above
[17:30:34] <archivist> diagnose where the lost motion/play/backlash is
[17:30:38] <SolarNRG> pfred1 ain't that the truth!
[17:31:10] <Loetmichel> s/mend/dink
[17:31:11] <Loetmichel> bend
[17:31:45] <Loetmichel> and dont forget to tape the tube firmly to your z axis
[17:31:53] <archivist> and test for rigidity of the machine
[17:32:11] <pfred1> I just reinforced the X axis
[17:32:14] <Loetmichel> and do that snowflaketest again
[17:32:26] <Loetmichel> do you have a pic of your machine?
[17:32:34] <pfred1> not sonce i redid it no
[17:32:50] <pfred1> I do have a picture of my recent reinforcment someplace
[17:32:50] <Loetmichel> and before?
[17:34:14] <pfred1> here is my old, and new corner brackets http://i.imgur.com/jgcuyvM.jpg
[17:34:18] <pfred1> the new ones are bigger
[17:34:30] <pfred1> I left the old ones on too
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[17:34:48] <SolarNRG> wooden frame?
[17:34:56] <Loetmichel> ... and the whole machine?
[17:34:56] <Jymm> whats all the holes for?
[17:34:58] <pfred1> yes but there is steel all around it now
[17:35:10] <pfred1> Jymm so Ican see
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[17:35:35] <Jymm> O_o
[17:35:36] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: there is nothing wrong with wooden frame... if done right ;-)
[17:35:50] <pfred1> well the wood just holds the steel now
[17:35:55] <Loetmichel> ask MarkusBec, he can tell ;)
[17:35:59] <XXCoder> yeah depends on what use cnc is for
[17:36:02] <pfred1> ther isn't a run of wood more than an inch anymore
[17:36:19] <pfred1> without steel on it
[17:36:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[17:36:46] <Loetmichel> thats "wood", too
[17:36:51] <pfred1> there are a pair of steel strongbacks on the ends and steel rails the bearings run on
[17:37:00] <Loetmichel> and it can cope with aluminium and steel if you have time ;-)
[17:37:13] <pfred1> I juast want to route wood
[17:37:22] <pfred1> I have a mill for other materials
[17:37:29] <Loetmichel> oh shit is MarkusBec young in that pic ;-)
[17:38:12] <pfred1> I've no interest, or use for CNC machining anything other than wood
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[17:38:46] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: do you have any videos of that machine in use?
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[17:40:53] <Loetmichel> i have only one from building it -> http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Lilafraese_tag1.avi
[17:41:10] <Loetmichel> ... and ine from testing the ways... *searching*
[17:42:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11178
[17:43:43] <Loetmichel> pfred1: do you have a pic of the full machine?
[17:43:58] <pfred1> not yet
[17:44:17] <pfred1> I just got it together last night
[17:46:42] <Loetmichel> take one. maybe we can suggest improvements by looking at it alone...
[17:46:51] <MarkusBec> my expiriens is that a maschine out of polywood is better than aluminium
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[17:46:55] <SolarNRG> loetmichel won't wood bend more than steel?
[17:47:06] <Loetmichel> some errors are pretty plain to the ones taht made a few machines ;-)
[17:47:12] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: no
[17:47:26] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: thats "marine plywood" ... dioesent really have much to do with real wood
[17:47:38] <Loetmichel> and no, it doesent bend if you use the right construction technique
[17:48:06] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: polywood with the right construction is extremely tuff
[17:48:13] <archivist> make sure the forces are along the grain
[17:48:17] <Loetmichel> for example: the inside of the base of MarkusBec' machine looks simolar to this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
[17:49:12] <SolarNRG> loetmichel to be fair that looks pretty solid to me
[17:49:16] <MarkusBec> if you put a coin unter 1 edge of my maschine
[17:49:33] <MarkusBec> the other 2 edeges are in the air
[17:49:40] <Loetmichel> .. you can measure the exact couin diameter on the other ;)
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[17:49:55] <MarkusBec> with 16000*14000 base geometry
[17:50:29] <Loetmichel> i did that with a 50mm measurement block
[17:50:35] <Loetmichel> unter one edge
[17:50:51] <Loetmichel> you could meaure exactly 50mm on the other (flying) edge
[17:51:19] <Loetmichel> of someone pressed the other side of the machine to the ground to it doesent tip over
[17:51:39] <Loetmichel> s/edge/corner
[17:52:18] <Loetmichel> (german again, edge: "kante", corner: "ecke")
[17:52:20] <MarkusBec> http://bambuser.com/v/920808
[17:52:24] <CaptHindsight> did anyone ever find a reputable supplier from China for few KW water cooled spindles?
[17:52:48] <MarkusBec> http://bambuser.com/v/1333934
[17:53:52] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: few kW as in 2,2kw or as in 25kw
[17:54:41] <SolarNRG> marcusbec what is that spindle?
[17:54:47] <SolarNRG> and where did u get it from?
[17:54:53] <CaptHindsight> MarkusBec: few would mean <10Kw, 25KW would be described by many or several
[17:55:33] <MarkusBec> I bought my spindle with 2,2 kw at alibaba.com
[17:56:10] <SolarNRG> markusbec if u were nuts enough could u use the tool by hand?
[17:56:21] <Loetmichel> ah, there is a video of "my" old machine. similar to MarkusBec' but prior design: http://www.cyrom.org/hajo/sauuuug.avi
[17:56:24] <SolarNRG> like hold it and wiggle it on a bit of metal?
[17:56:28] <Loetmichel> just so you get an idea of the size
[17:57:35] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: hm?
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[17:58:16] <SolarNRG> Like if u had the spindle not attached to the machine could u use it like you would a router or a dremel or a hand drill or is the spindle just so heavy and powerful you wouldn't consider using it not as part of a machine?
[17:58:22] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: the kress was at its limit at the "kugelbahn" video, want it?
[17:58:47] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: that spindlem in the videos is a router motor
[17:59:04] <SolarNRG> so there's no way that router will handle steel then?
[17:59:16] <Loetmichel> from kress, the 1050 FME iirc
[17:59:45] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: i think you can buy it from everywhere there are all made in WonHungLow Inc. chenzen
[17:59:50] <Loetmichel> steel will detoriate the motors bearings VERY fast
[18:00:07] <Loetmichel> they dont last very long in AL and wood for all that matters
[18:00:21] <SolarNRG> loetmichel can u recommend for me a good spindle for milling steel?
[18:00:24] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: all parts that can fail ar the bearings
[18:00:28] <Loetmichel> i would go for a 2.2kw chinese watercooled spindle from ebay
[18:00:33] <MarkusBec> und you can easly hange it
[18:00:37] <MarkusBec> change
[18:01:08] <MarkusBec> and
[18:01:13] <Loetmichel> ... which can be a bit off runout-wise (which can be reground if you have the tools/fgrends witgh the tools) but otherwise is the best bang for the buck you'll get
[18:01:52] <Loetmichel> i have two of these chinese ac spindles with 800W
[18:02:04] <Loetmichel> formy small mills at home and at the company
[18:02:19] <SolarNRG> loetmichel would the 800w chinese spindle u got mill steel?
[18:02:31] <Loetmichel> the stand theier man, so to say
[18:02:40] <MarkusBec> SolarNRG: CaptHindsight or if you want quality vor not a lage amount of money you can bux elte spindles out of italy
[18:02:48] <CaptHindsight> I'm considering building dedicated machining centers for milling aluminum cases the way Apple does it
[18:03:03] <MarkusBec> http://www.eltesrl.com
[18:03:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11828
[18:03:32] <Loetmichel> it does
[18:04:05] <Loetmichel> but it takes TIME ;-)
[18:04:38] <CaptHindsight> Apple gets theirs from China somewhere
[18:04:56] <SolarNRG> what do u guys think of this one: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3kw-3-2kw-spindle-elte-for_1728505455.html?s=p
[18:05:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14040 <- thats my home CNC
[18:05:53] <SolarNRG> loetmichel aluminium frame
[18:06:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12569
[18:06:18] <Loetmichel> yes
[18:06:26] <Tom_itx> SolarNRG, you may wanna get one that has the control with it
[18:06:39] <SolarNRG> tom_itx can u make a recommendation?
[18:06:44] <Tom_itx> no
[18:06:50] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: the good thing is that they post their certificates
[18:07:36] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i would go for a set from ebay
[18:07:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.han-qi.com/English/aboutus.asp their actual website
[18:07:42] <SolarNRG> u no a part of me was thinking about just getting 30cm of stainless bar in between 2 thrust bearings and putting a bicycle wheel on one end then peddling the thing to grind the metal
[18:08:21] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/220V-2-2kw-Water-Cooled-Spindle-Motor-With-2-2kw-Inverter-VFD-/230954246618?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item35c5f221da
[18:08:23] <SolarNRG> cos I got this feeling I order a spindle then I'll be like "guys guys my first CNC spindle arrived in the post from China today, now what do I do with these wires?"
[18:08:24] <Loetmichel> like this one
[18:08:39] <Loetmichel> they come precondigured for the spindle so no hasseling with motor parameters
[18:08:46] <Loetmichel> configured
[18:09:32] <Tom_itx> what size collets does that take?
[18:09:51] <SolarNRG> loetmichel will that one handle mild steel no probs?
[18:09:54] <Loetmichel> ER20
[18:10:03] <Loetmichel> so upt to 13mm cylindical shaft tools
[18:10:15] <Tom_itx> ~1/2"
[18:10:25] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: as my 800W can do mild steel i would think: yes
[18:10:48] <SolarNRG> how much do u want for ur 800w one?
[18:10:58] <Loetmichel> cant sell that ;-)
[18:11:06] <Loetmichel> need it myself ;-)
[18:11:06] <SolarNRG> aww :(
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[18:12:09] <Loetmichel> you know that a 13mm tool in Steel is WAY off most gantry mill rigidity tho?
[18:12:21] <Loetmichel> homebuild gantry that is
[18:12:44] <Loetmichel> i would set the point of "no go" at about 4mm for the usual constructions
[18:12:48] <Loetmichel> tool diameter
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[18:18:03] <SolarNRG> has anyone got a good photo of the wiring to one of these spindles in a finished machine?
[18:18:23] <CaptHindsight> somebody must make a tool changer that size
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[18:21:01] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: its just 3 phase + Eaarth
[18:21:05] <Loetmichel> nothing fancy
[18:21:17] <Loetmichel> and 1 phase or 3 phase to the VDF
[18:21:20] <Loetmichel> VFD
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[18:30:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.romanblack.com/CNC/tool.jpg
[18:31:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/images/Gallery/products/pcnc1100/PCNC1100_Options_ATC/32279_ATC_under_lrg.jpg
[18:32:45] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFoKfEz1XRM mini mill atc
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[18:33:31] <CaptHindsight> I guess they blew their budget on the ATC and none for a vise :)
[18:35:31] <malcom2073> Heh that is quite the cheesy looking vice
[18:35:41] <malcom2073> I plan on DIYing a toolchanger for my router, because I like pain
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[18:41:46] <MarkusBec> CaptHindsight: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=Electrospindles+quick+toolchange
[18:43:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.hsd.it/
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[18:48:49] <SolarNRG> a bit like an alternator then
[18:48:54] <SolarNRG> that's 3 phase
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[18:55:49] <pcw_home> Spindle motors are usually 3 phase induction motors
[18:55:50] <pcw_home> (so 3 phase like an alternator but an alternator has a DC field in the rotor not AC like an induction motor)
[18:56:54] <SolarNRG> thanks for that
[18:58:02] <SolarNRG> listen yeah, I seen this water cooled spindle kit for sale I know it's only 1.5kw but for a first timer whose trying to make a steel mill whatdaya think of this? http://ja.aliexpress.com/item/1-5kw-VFD-Interver-CNC-Spindle-Motor-1500W-ER16-1-10mm-80mm-clamp-3-2m-water/1985165880.html
[18:58:44] <SolarNRG> or u think I might be better off buying the spindle, pump, pipes, vfd separately?
[19:01:49] <CaptHindsight> since you are unsure of yourself I'd suggest exchanging money for as complete a unit as possible
[19:02:03] <Loetmichel> i would strongly suiggest to buy at least spindle and vfd as a kit
[19:02:23] <Loetmichel> because these spindles can be tricky to configure the VFD.
[19:02:45] <Loetmichel> and the chinese manufacturers give virtually no info on parameters for their spindles
[19:03:02] <Loetmichel> the pump is easy tho
[19:03:15] <SolarNRG> pond pump?
[19:03:59] <Loetmichel> just buy a cheap "inhouse fountain" pump with a few liters per minute thruput
[19:04:10] <SolarNRG> ok
[19:04:15] <Loetmichel> and a big bucket to store the water in
[19:04:21] <SolarNRG> :) easy enough
[19:04:28] <Loetmichel> usually there is no need for a radiator
[19:05:15] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[19:05:21] <SolarNRG> isn't the bracket useful?
[19:05:30] <Loetmichel> i have none and my 800W spindle stays below 40°c
[19:05:43] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13048
[19:06:01] <Loetmichel> the bracket is useful if you have no means in making your own
[19:06:10] <Loetmichel> i.e if thats your first spindle ;-)
[19:06:36] <SolarNRG> sounds to me like that 1.5kw water cooled spindle kit's a good buy then :)
[19:07:13] <SolarNRG> I know everybody's making me look toward the 2.2kw but the way I see it is ANYTHING is better than my drill press and angle grinder I got atm
[19:07:42] <SolarNRG> besides even with a working spindle and no working machine I could use it as a very rudimentary mill right?
[19:08:02] <SolarNRG> like mill steel parts by hand
[19:08:16] <SolarNRG> until I make a fully working machine
[19:09:30] <SolarNRG> couldn't I?
[19:09:42] <SolarNRG> or is that a recipe for lost fingers?
[19:10:23] <CaptHindsight> just watch your fingers, don't wear gloves, fasten things down properly, wear safety glasses
[19:10:49] <CaptHindsight> don't wear a tie etc
[19:11:03] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i had to learn the hard way NOT to get anywhere near the rotating tool with my dfinger
[19:11:21] <CaptHindsight> unless you're going out, just not while machining
[19:11:47] <Loetmichel> ... 24krpm are FAST... a 3mm tungsden carbide 2flute goes trrhu fleshg and bone in NO time
[19:12:04] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2958
[19:12:09] <Loetmichel> any questions?
[19:12:10] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:12:19] <SolarNRG> how come I can get tungsten carbide endmills but I cant get tungsten carbide drills?
[19:12:29] <Loetmichel> you can
[19:12:29] <SolarNRG> apart from gundrills
[19:12:49] <Loetmichel> you just have to look at the right places )
[19:12:56] <SolarNRG> no DIY store sells them
[19:13:22] <Loetmichel> in germany i would know a source
[19:13:32] <Loetmichel> but that will not help you or does it?
[19:13:45] <Loetmichel> look for PCB drills
[19:13:49] <Loetmichel> they are made of TC
[19:13:53] <malcom2073> Youtube, how I hate thee, you make my project list lengthen by the day.
[19:13:56] <SolarNRG> will they cut steel?
[19:14:04] <SolarNRG> malcom does youtube load for you ok?
[19:14:12] <malcom2073> SolarNRG: Uh... seems to, I'm watching videos now
[19:14:17] <SolarNRG> it goes chuggedy chug for me at this time of night
[19:14:33] <malcom2073> My internet is crap, so I'm always on 240p resolution though)
[19:16:29] <malcom2073> So I have a couple of 35mm rails, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. They're WAY overkill for a wood router, so I started thinking full size cnc... except the frame to support these would cost more than I paid for the rails. Started finding videos of people building their own CNC's, and thought... why can't I convert an old knee mill's dovetails into linear rail?
[19:17:31] <Loetmichel> why should you?
[19:18:04] <Loetmichel> the dovetails on old (2 ton)= knee mills will still be fine long after you have gone to dust again...
[19:18:23] <Rab> SolarNRG, you could do some very rudimentary manual milling using a cross-slide vise mounted under your spindle: http://www.use-enco.com/ProductImages/6349614-24.jpg
[19:18:56] <Rab> You still need some kind of Z-axis to plunge the spindle. And the whole thing will need to be very rigid.
[19:18:59] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: True, I thought maybe I could get more travel out of it, but I'd have to look at how close I can space the carriages vs how big the carriage on the dovetails are
[19:19:01] <SolarNRG> rab I seen one of them for sale in the engineering shop cost about 140 euros
[19:19:09] <Rab> SolarNRG, yeah, not terribly cheap.
[19:19:44] <Rab> SolarNRG, I strongly advise you not to try free-hand shaping steel with the spindle. It'll destroy the tooling, the workpiece, and maybe you.
[19:20:07] <malcom2073> So typically on the kind of rundown mills you can get for free, the dovetails don't ever really have issues?
[19:20:15] <SolarNRG> so do not use it like a bandsaw then
[19:20:34] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: nothing that cant be fixed by an extended scraping session
[19:20:56] <Loetmichel> usually the acme threads and -nuts are in much worse condition
[19:21:11] <malcom2073> I've also got some 35mm ballscrews heh
[19:21:22] <Rab> SolarNRG, a bandsaw has a stop to keep the blade from catching and flinging your work through your skull or groin.
[19:21:25] <Loetmichel> ... and THESE are worth changing to ballscrews when making a CNC of it
[19:21:31] <malcom2073> Right
[19:22:07] <SolarNRG> are most acme thread nuts ballscrew?
[19:22:25] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: badsaw and round aluminium and no vice: (warning, BLODDY!) http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11136
[19:22:37] <SolarNRG> cheers for warning
[19:22:41] <Loetmichel> hihi, that was a freud, want it?
[19:22:48] <Rab> SolarNRG, that's a contradiction in terms. Acme thread is different from a ballscrew.
[19:22:48] <Loetmichel> baNdsaw of course
[19:22:51] <SolarNRG> ouch
[19:24:03] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: thats the sme thumb that got a hole from the mill bit a few years earlier
[19:24:12] <Loetmichel> lucily i tend to injure my left hand ;-)
[19:25:06] <Loetmichel> no, acme thread is trapezodial
[19:25:13] <Loetmichel> ballscrews have a half round thread
[19:25:26] <Loetmichel> obviously for the balls to run in ;)
[19:25:29] <Rab> SolarNRG, see the graphics at the bottom of this page for a comparison: http://www.roton.com/page.aspx?id=28
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[19:26:37] <SolarNRG> rab: http://i.imgur.com/GxvJMXf.jpg is this ballscrew or is it acme? cos its what I got
[19:26:54] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: Does it change anything if I tell you the linear rails are roller rails, not ball rails?
[19:26:58] <Rab> SolarNRG, looks like acme thread to me.
[19:27:11] <malcom2073> Or am I pretty much better of selling them?
[19:27:16] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: not really
[19:27:29] <SolarNRG> ok any advantages of ballscrew over acme?
[19:27:36] <Loetmichel> a good dovetail machine is better than any linear rail for heavy loads
[19:27:55] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: no play/backlash
[19:27:58] <malcom2073> They wer ea hell of a deal, I can get twice what I paid for them on ebay... but been searching a lot, and it's lookinglike I'm going to wind up spending a ton of money building a frame to support the rails
[19:28:11] <Loetmichel> and about three times the load with same torque
[19:28:12] <Rab> SolarNRG, absolutely. Reduced friction = higher load capability, reduced wear, increased precision.
[19:28:21] <malcom2073> So for a cnc, starting with a mill may be way cheaper than building one
[19:28:22] <Loetmichel> as you could have seen in the pich rab posted
[19:29:14] <Rab> SolarNRG, think of the difference between ball bearings and bronze bushings. A ball screw is a special ball bearing set up for helical motion.
[19:29:18] <SolarNRG> if i make my machine out of acme thread will it have a lot of backlash leading to inaccurate cuts?
[19:29:21] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: depends on the result you want
[19:29:31] <Rab> SolarNRG, you will need some type of backlash compensation.
[19:29:35] <Loetmichel> if you want to go for travel: build a gantry.
[19:29:54] <SolarNRG> ballscrew seems like the holy grail I'm almost ashamed of me acme thread now :(
[19:29:57] <Loetmichel> if you want to do heavy cutting:buy a manual mill and convertio it to cnc
[19:29:59] <Rab> SolarNRG, typically that's done by using two nuts with spring tension or other adjustment between them, to cancel out the backlash.
[19:30:27] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: acme can do perfectly well, too
[19:30:34] <pcw_home> or CNC mill with a bad/obsolete control...
[19:30:38] <Rab> SolarNRG, acme thread is perfectly fine for a home machine. It won't be super precise, particularly over time as it wears, but you can produce good work.
[19:31:00] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8884
[19:31:14] <Rab> And that's some rather large acme rod.
[19:31:21] <Loetmichel> totally backlas-free either... but only for light loads
[19:31:22] <SolarNRG> Any ideas what I'm supposed to put on the big nut?
[19:31:26] <Loetmichel> ans DOES wear
[19:31:43] <SolarNRG> like what do you do with the big acme nut to make it a linear actuator?
[19:32:37] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: did you see the pic?
[19:32:37] <Rab> Fix it to your axis platform.
[19:33:01] <Loetmichel> or look here for another way of getting the backlash out:
[19:33:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14034&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
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[19:33:39] <SolarNRG> is that nut like glued into a few blocks of aluminium plate?
[19:33:57] <Loetmichel> the (POM) nut is sawn nearly in halve and one part is spread off by an m4 screw so you can adjust it to be backlash free
[19:34:18] <Loetmichel> its screwed in the aluminium block
[19:34:27] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can make your own nuts from high-density plastic which will perform pretty well for a while, and they're essentially disposable: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/#acmetap
[19:34:29] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14037
[19:34:32] <Loetmichel> without the nut
[19:34:33] <Rab> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew-nuts-the-easy-way/
[19:34:38] <Loetmichel> (and the dirt)
[19:35:06] <SolarNRG> my nut is 60mm in outer diameter
[19:35:22] <Rab> Little or no backlash to start with on a tapped delrin nut, although I haven't seen a good analysis of its wear performance over time.
[19:35:52] <Loetmichel> Rab: you mean like this? http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=356
[19:35:56] <SolarNRG> i saved the image anyway
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[19:36:08] <Rab> Loetmichel, fine work. ;D
[19:36:27] <SolarNRG> where on earth did you get a tap like that from?
[19:36:45] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: that was a bit of acme screw and a lathe ;-)
[19:36:53] <Loetmichel> and the mill for the slot
[19:36:56] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can make it from spare rod. Did you see the first link I posted?
[19:37:32] <SolarNRG> sorry I didn't please repost
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[19:37:44] <Rab> http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/#acmetap
[19:38:14] <Rab> I just a drill press, file, and angle grinder for the flutes.
[19:39:46] <Rab> You could make two nuts and design some way to adjust them apart for backlash compensation.
[19:41:23] <Loetmichel> Rab: i did that by making a slot into one nut and drill a hole thru the seoerated part, so i can use a screw to "bend " the seperated part away from the main part
[19:41:43] <Rab> Loetmichel, sounds reasonable.
[19:41:44] <Loetmichel> do that until the acme screw gets stuck and then back a few degrees
[19:41:55] <Loetmichel> and voila: backlash-free nut ;-)
[19:42:18] <Loetmichel> ... until it wears down
[19:42:28] <Rab> SolarNRG, you can do this without cutting up your threaded rod, using common shop tools: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew-nuts-the-easy-way/
[19:42:38] <Loetmichel> so be sure to have access to that screw without dismantling the whole machine ;-)
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[19:45:13] <SolarNRG> so rab u didn't actually use a standard steel acme nut for your linear actuator you used a block of aluminium and attached some HDPE to it with the correct threading into the HDPE and THAT acted as what moved back and forth when the acme rotates
[19:45:44] <SolarNRG> Because I was thinking weld it to angle iron, I was thinking bolt it to angle iron
[19:45:45] <Rab> SolarNRG, that is correct.
[19:46:01] <Rab> You could bolt it to angle iron.
[19:46:08] <SolarNRG> Also I like loetmichel's idea this one giant block has the bolt in it and the bearings that go to the rails looks totally clatter free
[19:47:01] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: steel/steel is a bad glide partner
[19:47:08] <Loetmichel> s/partner/pair
[19:47:08] <SolarNRG> why?
[19:47:14] <Loetmichel> because it needs lubrication
[19:47:27] <Loetmichel> and lubricant acts like glue for swarf and dust
[19:47:32] <SolarNRG> are you saying ditch the steel acme nut?
[19:47:39] <Loetmichel> intensifying wear greatly
[19:47:45] <Loetmichel> yes
[19:47:51] <Loetmichel> ise a DElrin/POM one
[19:47:58] <Loetmichel> use
[19:48:04] <Loetmichel> or better two
[19:48:11] <Loetmichel> they can run dry
[19:49:03] <SolarNRG> can u post me one?
[19:49:07] <Rab> SolarNRG, virtually all acme nuts meant for long term duty are brass or some type of plastic, so they don't wear the screw excessively. You would rather replace the nut periodically than wear down both the nut and the screw.
[19:49:25] <SolarNRG> so why did the engineering shop stock a steel one?
[19:49:34] <Loetmichel> or use a mix of epoxy/ urethane resin and talcum powder and cast your nuts
[19:49:49] <Loetmichel> ... they will live nearly forever... BTDT
[19:49:58] <SolarNRG> btdt?
[19:50:00] <Rab> It might be intended for a non-mechanized or low-repetition application, like some type of screw jack.
[19:50:12] <Loetmichel> because a steel one can transfer much greater forces... that you dont need ;-)
[19:50:26] <pcw_home> cast your nuts?
[19:50:29] <Loetmichel> Been there, done that
[19:50:42] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: acme nuts, not the ones between your legs ;-)
[19:50:46] <malcom2073> hey-oh
[19:51:05] <SolarNRG> so what do I need to make a couple of castings then?
[19:51:25] <Loetmichel> i used a 35mm flim box and an acme threaded rod
[19:51:28] <Loetmichel> -> done ;-)
[19:51:39] <SolarNRG> my acme thread is 33mm diam
[19:51:45] <SolarNRG> that gives 1mm each side not much give
[19:51:57] <Connor> PVC Pipe?
[19:52:04] <Loetmichel> make a fitting hole in the bottom, sit it centeed over the rod, spray the rod with silicone pooil first...
[19:52:10] <Loetmichel> poir the resin...
[19:52:23] <Loetmichel> wait for it to harden, screw the nut off the rod
[19:52:26] <SolarNRG> silicone pooil, woah owah anme me some brands
[19:52:42] <Loetmichel> slightly trun it concentric on the lathe: done
[19:52:52] <SolarNRG> I don't have a lathe
[19:53:00] <CaptHindsight> where is he going to get a selection of urethane resin to pour?
[19:53:13] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: i used 10mm rods
[19:53:38] <Loetmichel> so just get a fitting and disposable plastic container for your threaded rod
[19:53:46] <Rab> SolarNRG, cast in a pipe + flange, then you have an easy mounting method: http://www.polyprocessing.com/images/uploads/flange-adapter.jpg
[19:53:51] <CaptHindsight> how does he know what tensile strength, flex mod and elongation to choose?
[19:53:54] <Loetmichel> i used sika G27
[19:54:19] <SolarNRG> rab that looks pretty much exactly what I need
[19:54:32] <Loetmichel> but that is VERY fast (two minutes "pot" time) , so i reccomend a slower hardening one for a first try ;-)
[19:54:34] <CaptHindsight> a hunk of delrin and a acme tap would be easier
[19:54:46] <Rab> CaptHindsight, probably cheaper too.
[19:55:09] <Rab> Epoxy resin isn't cheap.
[19:55:18] <SolarNRG> i got a tonne of it from the marina
[19:55:38] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: the nice thin on the cast ones is that the talc in the resin "lubicates" the nut
[19:55:44] <Loetmichel> so it can run dry as well
[19:55:47] <SolarNRG> its cheaper from the marina than the diy store, they only sell little araldite tubes marina sells gallon jugs
[19:55:49] <Loetmichel> and with nearly no wear
[19:56:23] <CaptHindsight> delrin comes in ~100 variations, some blends have teflon
[19:56:32] <Loetmichel> i said "resin mixed with talc powder" for a reason
[19:56:46] <SolarNRG> epoxy/talc composite?
[19:56:49] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: what do you have for suppliers in your area?
[19:57:00] <Loetmichel> i agree, a delrin nut would bne easier
[19:57:20] <Loetmichel> SolarNRG: Urethane talc in my case ;-)
[19:59:30] <SolarNRG> there's a builders yard that sells blocks bricks u name it, there's a scrap heap full of as much steel, shell casings, mortar casings u can desire. there's an engineering shop that has some acme thread in store, there's a marina taht has lots of boating repair stuff, there's a diy store that has hole saws and angle grinder disks. There's a posh diy store like 30 mile away that has the expensive 2 axis vice and the only endmill they had was a 4.5mm o
[19:59:31] <SolarNRG> ne I put in my dremmel and cooked it in 3 seconds flat. there's a lidl that once sold a welder. there's a homestore that has loads of cheap crap consumer items where I got my drill press from :) umm oh yeah there's an industrial area I got some stainless steel pipe from
[20:00:18] <SolarNRG> oh and there's a bakery that sells real nice chocolate croissants :)
[20:03:30] <SolarNRG> Oh and my only option of getting stuff off the internet is either western union or asking someone to order something in for me and they take a cut cos I don't have a card only a bank book
[20:03:42] <SolarNRG> bank won't give me a card
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[20:04:48] <SolarNRG> A lot of the time I drive around and I buy something and it's either too big or too small or too weak or not ideal and I spend a lot of time trying to make 2 things link together
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[20:05:40] <SolarNRG> TBH I can't wait for the day I have a fully operational CNC so I can make my own stuff from old scrap welded together then I won't have to rely on other suppliers may or may not having what I need/want in store
[20:07:15] <SolarNRG> Right now the best three tools I got are the drill press, angle grinder and arc welder
[20:16:28] <renesis> i want a band saw
[20:16:34] <renesis> having a cnc makes you want a bandsaw
[20:16:53] <renesis> the place that sells you stock, they totally have a bandsaw
[20:17:27] <SolarNRG> they do
[20:17:48] <SolarNRG> its about 450 euros
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[20:36:38] <SolarNRG> im off 2 bed l8rs guys thanks for all ur help 2nite
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[22:08:00] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:24:33] <Aero-Tec> need to put my lathe INI into sim mode for code testing
[22:25:35] <Aero-Tec> how do I get the spindle speed to be set to set S value in code with out a real spindle?
[22:25:45] <Aero-Tec> like in the sim
[22:26:16] <Aero-Tec> thing is I need mt real lathe setup and not the sim one
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[22:37:11] <Aero-Tec> looks like it is a HAL thing
[22:37:29] <Aero-Tec> any help would be cool
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[22:47:21] <Aero-Tec> broke HAL
[22:47:27] <Aero-Tec> trying to fix
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[22:55:00] <Aero-Tec> why will the sim HAL not work with my INI?
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[23:15:10] <Aero-Tec> trying to edit sim config
[23:15:34] <Aero-Tec> want to stop tool change movement
[23:16:01] <Aero-Tec> and also stop G54 change when tool is changed
[23:16:27] <Aero-Tec> I program G55 and it goes to G54 after tool change
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[23:21:42] <renesis> why not just find and replace g54 with g55
[23:22:13] <renesis> or youre saying the tool changer code is doing it, not the program code
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[23:28:03] <Aero-Tec> when doing tool change in Gcode
[23:28:19] <Aero-Tec> the G55 goes to G54
[23:28:30] <Aero-Tec> it is just a sim
[23:28:46] <Aero-Tec> not sure if the lathe is doing it
[23:28:52] <Aero-Tec> will check
[23:29:01] <Aero-Tec> would be very bad if so
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[23:30:36] <Aero-Tec> in my lathe INI I have it set so the tool does not move for tool change
[23:30:47] <Aero-Tec> but the sim keeps moving
[23:30:54] <Aero-Tec> I can not stop it
[23:31:22] <Aero-Tec> and when it moves back from tool change it sets G55 to G54
[23:31:46] <Tom_itx> so run it with no tools installed if you can't figure it out
[23:32:27] <Aero-Tec> it is a code test unit for my real code for my real lathe
[23:32:41] <Tom_itx> yeah i figured that
[23:44:00] <Aero-Tec> just stepped through the code
[23:44:30] <Aero-Tec> it is when it goes to the tool change spot that it changes G55 to G54
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