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[00:00:54] <zeeshan|2> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022809&p_id=7684&seq=1&format=2
[00:00:55] <zeeshan|2> holy shit
[00:00:59] <zeeshan|2> its 3.45 on their website
[00:01:00] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:01:08] <zeeshan|2> okay im ordering the 10 foot
[00:01:11] <zeeshan|2> its 5.10
[00:01:20] <renesis> if you dont have amazon prime its prob better to get direct
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[00:38:44] <unfy> 18/4 shielded wire picked up
[00:39:15] <pfred1> I madem y own
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[00:43:58] <pfred1> here's a picture i took while i was making my motor cables out of wire i pulled out of old IEC power cords
http://i.imgur.com/KKL8nGG.jpg
[00:45:27] <pfred1> at first I thought about just taping another wire to the cords
[00:46:15] <pfred1> these two are actually 5 wire for unipolar motors I made 4 wire too though
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[01:52:10] <unfy> shielded ? and neat. i aint pullin that much juice so no need for that big myself.
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[02:01:43] <pfred1> just 18 gauge
[02:05:01] <bobo_> zeeshan|2: for wire, have you considered Hypalon type wire ?
[02:08:01] * pfred1 likes copper wire
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[02:10:06] <bobo_> Hypalon type of wire insulation
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[02:12:58] <Tom_itx> what is it?
[02:12:58] <pfred1> PVC is good enough for me
[02:13:15] <Tom_itx> or rather where is it generally used?
[02:13:46] <pfred1> Teflon insulation is freaking annoying to work with
[02:13:55] <Tom_itx> no kidding
[02:14:08] <pfred1> though the trick is to use scissors to strip it
[02:14:19] <Tom_itx> stringy as crap and hard to strip
[02:14:40] <pfred1> we had to use teflon wire at the board house i qworked at ans we used scissors
[02:14:45] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/wire.jpg
[02:14:50] <pfred1> you just cut throug hthe insulation and not the conductor
[02:14:50] <Tom_itx> i've kinda wondered what that was
[02:14:58] <Tom_itx> aircraft surplus i think
[02:15:06] <Tom_itx> but i dunno what jacket it is
[02:15:32] <pfred1> most plastic insulation is PVC
[02:15:50] <Tom_itx> it's good wire
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[02:15:58] <Tom_itx> fine strands
[02:16:02] <pfred1> yeah for most applications PVC is sufficient
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[02:16:20] <Tom_itx> i used that for the limits on my sherlien
[02:16:42] <PetefromTn_> MMmmmmm Egg Nog with Cinammon spice!
[02:16:59] <Tom_itx> no wonder you haven't felt good :D
[02:17:14] <PetefromTn_> Feelin' better now
[02:17:32] <pfred1> PetefromTn_ you should use my cold remedy
[02:17:45] <pfred1> hot tea with whiskey and honey
[02:17:52] <PetefromTn_> Ooh that sounds nice
[02:17:58] <pfred1> it is when you're sick
[02:18:01] <PetefromTn_> I love hot tea with honey
[02:18:11] <PetefromTn_> I am feeling a LOT better today
[02:18:18] <pfred1> yeah well the whiskey is the medicinal coimponent
[02:18:22] <PetefromTn_> I actually started feeling better the other night
[02:18:36] <pfred1> I got sick camping once and I didn't have any cold medicine
[02:18:49] <pfred1> so I concocted my cure then
[02:19:01] <PetefromTn_> but today while I am STILL slightly dizzy it is much better and I feel almost normal......well as normal as PetefromTn ever gets I suppose LOL
[02:19:31] <PetefromTn_> a little Hair o' the dog...
[02:19:33] <PetefromTn_> LOL
[02:19:59] <PetefromTn_> Still trying to figure out how I am going to convert my machine back to Imperial native units here.
[02:20:09] <PetefromTn_> Spent some time reading about it a little
[02:20:17] <pfred1> they told you how copy your ini and edit it
[02:20:29] <PetefromTn_> well not really
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[02:20:53] <PetefromTn_> I still don't know how to do that since the machine loads linuxCNC upon startup
[02:20:54] <pfred1> as a rule always work on a copy of a configuration file
[02:21:02] <PetefromTn_> well sure
[02:21:03] <unfy> heh
[02:21:12] <PetefromTn_> I can copy it and already have actually
[02:21:36] <pfred1> when you say loads LinuxCNC what do you mean by that acis starts up?
[02:21:37] <PetefromTn_> Right now I am working on the CAD drawing for my Wife's LED Edge lit sign
[02:21:40] <pfred1> axis even
[02:22:08] <PetefromTn_> yeah when I flip the main switch on the back of the machine by the time I walk around the front LinuxCNC Axis is staring me in the face LOL
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[02:22:53] <PetefromTn_> Probably going to make it from some furniture grade plywood here and cut the slots on the machine. possibly the outside shape
[02:23:19] <PetefromTn_> Gonna have to glue up a couple pieces
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[02:28:58] * unfy fetches a 24v / 10a (minimum) power supply
[02:29:33] <pfred1> I got a boost in performance going from 24 to 28V
[02:29:53] <Tom_itx> i got a boost going from 24 to 48v
[02:30:05] <pfred1> I would imagine
[02:30:07] <unfy> drivers i have are cheap and have 24v as a suggested power supply
[02:30:13] <pfred1> my drives would smoke at 48V
[02:30:30] <unfy> the technically might work at 30v, but i dunno
[02:30:39] <pfred1> TB6560?
[02:31:00] <unfy> based off of it yeah. it's not the blue/red combo board though.
[02:31:15] <pfred1> well if it has those chips it is a TB6560
[02:31:20] <Tom_itx> get better drivers
[02:31:35] <unfy> tom: in due time :D
[02:31:40] <pfred1> right now my drives are the least of my proboems they work fine
[02:31:47] <Tom_itx> i waited quite a while too
[02:31:55] <Tom_itx> me too
[02:32:02] <Tom_itx> i blew out my mesa boards
[02:32:06] <pfred1> when it comes to it I'll make myself better drives too
[02:32:14] <unfy> my plans are 'make something move', 'make improvements', 'make what i really want' or something
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[02:32:56] <pfred1> the BT6560 drives i use now i custom made
[02:33:01] <pfred1> TB6560 even
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[02:33:33] <pfred1> I like ot think they're a bit better than the far eastern import offerings
[02:33:48] <unfy> i've looked at some of the open source drivers (linstepper etc) ... maybe in time, i dunno.
[02:33:59] <pfred1> I designed my own
[02:35:02] <unfy> i helped a bit 10 years ago here at work with small drivers for unipolar slot machine reels.... buuuuttt.... i'm in no position to do my own higher current stuff from scratch :P
[02:35:48] <pfred1> for the sake of simplicity I didn't make a hole current limit mode but other than that I'm satisfied
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[02:35:54] <pfred1> hold current even
[02:36:18] <pfred1> they run good for what they are
[02:36:23] <unfy> i guess i might as well ask
[02:36:31] <pfred1> they were certainly cheap enough for me to make too about $10 a drive
[02:36:51] <pfred1> I used mostly materials i had on hand
[02:36:56] <unfy> would folks suggest a large power supply feeding into some caps that then feed into individual drivers - or individual power supplies for each driver ?
[02:37:12] <pfred1> i have one large PSU
[02:37:34] <pfred1> I made it out of an old PDP 11/34 transformer I had
[02:37:52] <pfred1> I ganged up the two 13.5 AC coils inside of it
[02:38:02] <unfy> i've designed and built a linear isolated 4 output guitar pedal power supply before...
[02:38:12] <Tom_itx> i made mine from surplus too
[02:38:13] <pfred1> they supplied 5 volt rails in the mini computer
[02:38:23] <Tom_itx> found 3 identical transformers and parallel'd em
[02:38:25] <pfred1> so they have gobs of current capacity
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[02:38:36] <Tom_itx> 18A i think
[02:38:51] <pfred1> Tom_itx I did basically the same thing nust inside the same transformer
[02:38:56] <pfred1> just inside even
[02:39:18] <pfred1> took 2 coils and put them in series really
[02:39:22] <Tom_itx> i considered unhooking a couple of em since i don't really need em for the sherline
[02:39:31] <Tom_itx> i was thinking ahead when i could get a bigger machine
[02:39:33] <pfred1> to get me higher voltage
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[02:40:03] <Tom_itx> my drivers won't handle 96v let alone the steppers
[02:40:10] <pfred1> I know a lot of folks use switching PSUs but I donno there's so much noise with chopper drives as it is
[02:40:30] <pfred1> your steppers likely would handle 300V
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[02:40:34] <Tom_itx> i'm rather pleased with the geckos
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[02:40:47] <Tom_itx> 80v iirc
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[02:40:55] <Tom_itx> on the drivers
[02:40:57] <pfred1> nah motor insulation is usually 300
[02:41:10] <pfred1> ih the drives yes they would have a lower V limit often
[02:41:30] <unfy> i can't convince myself to buy a no name power supply ._.
[02:41:31] <pfred1> that is 80V input
[02:41:46] <pfred1> the drives themselves would see a higher voltage than that due to inductive kickback
[02:42:23] <pfred1> your geckos can handle 150V
[02:42:33] <pfred1> but don't feed them that
[02:43:00] <pfred1> marris uses some pretty beefy mosfets
[02:43:33] <pfred1> he makes great drives but they'er too expensive for me to buy
[02:44:12] <Tom_itx> i only planned on doing it once
[02:44:29] <pfred1> I'm doing this project because i like electronics
[02:44:39] <pfred1> buying drives sort of defeats the purpose
[02:45:05] <Tom_itx> i do too but i wanna see results before i die
[02:45:12] <pfred1> I don't erally care
[02:45:30] <pfred1> I'm in noi rush it is just something I do to pass the time
[02:45:32] <Tom_itx> i enjoy electronics quite a bit but i think i like cnc more
[02:45:39] <Tom_itx> same here really
[02:46:00] <pfred1> I only ever work on my CNC machine when I've nothing better to do
[02:46:33] <unfy> indeed. much like my whole multi step thing for building a cnc... hobbyish stuff at night :P
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[02:47:40] <Tom_itx> i have programmed/run the big ones several years back
[02:48:11] <Tom_itx> i just wanna keep fiddling with em in whatever scale i can
[02:49:46] <unfy> fine, went no name anyway ._.
[02:50:05] <pfred1> making a linear supply can be tricky
[02:50:21] <pfred1> transformers are rated kind of funny
[02:50:28] <unfy> i found linear to be straight forward. switching is black magic ._.
[02:50:52] <pfred1> well the trouble is transfirmers usually put out more voltage than they are rated to
[02:51:05] <pfred1> like a 24V transformer will output 28V
[02:51:26] <pfred1> then after you rectify and filter it you'll have maybe 34V
[02:51:42] <PetefromTn_> I wish I was better at electronics maybe I could fix this damn forced air heater LOL
[02:51:48] <unfy> rms can be a bitch :P
[02:52:07] <PetefromTn_> I took it apart
[02:52:10] <PetefromTn_> it has a fuse
[02:52:12] <Tom_itx> what's wrong with it?
[02:52:14] <pfred1> so to hit an exact V amount with a linear can bs tricky to do
[02:52:14] <PetefromTn_> it is not blown
[02:52:36] <PetefromTn_> it was running great and I laid it down on top of a power chord
[02:52:45] <PetefromTn_> then I needed some slack and pulled on the chord
[02:52:55] <PetefromTn_> it popped out from under the base of the heater
[02:53:05] <PetefromTn_> and it dropped that 3/8 inch and shutoff
[02:53:20] <PetefromTn_> after ten minutes or so it would turn back on
[02:53:23] <pfred1> the power cord on my 4x6 bandsaw went on me recently
[02:53:42] <PetefromTn_> went to use it this morning and it won't do anything.
[02:53:55] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_, maybe there's a temp sensor knocked outta place
[02:54:05] <PetefromTn_> the red led light on the side near the thermostat control won't go on.
[02:54:25] <PetefromTn_> I dunno I took it apart some today trying to find something obvious.
[02:54:40] <pfred1> did you take power measurement readings?
[02:54:46] <PetefromTn_> I use this thing to preheat the shop and it woud suck if I had to buy another one..
[02:54:46] <pfred1> like with a multimeter
[02:54:55] <PetefromTn_> I tried to
[02:55:06] <Tom_itx> pics
[02:55:09] <PetefromTn_> I measured line voltages to the switch etc.
[02:55:14] <PetefromTn_> okay standby
[02:55:17] <PetefromTn_> I will snap some
[02:55:21] <pfred1> so you have power then?
[02:55:40] <pfred1> because cords can go and still look OK
[02:56:14] <pfred1> I just had it happen here to me
[02:56:32] <pfred1> I thought the motor fried was just a bad molded plug
[02:58:24] <pfred1> the conductor breaks inside of the wire and that's that
[02:59:30] <PetefromTn_> nope it has power inside the unit control panel in several places
[02:59:41] <pfred1> oh OK
[02:59:55] <pfred1> then you have to keep tracing the power and see where it isn't going
[03:00:47] <pfred1> or you cna jump the motor out and just make sure it still works
[03:01:01] <pfred1> like supply power directly to it
[03:01:53] <pfred1> trouble shooting is the process of elimination
[03:02:37] <PetefromTn_> http://imgur.com/a/Qi2b3#0 Here is a little album with photos
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[03:02:56] <PetefromTn_> forgive the dust I used it even when I do woodworking so it needs a good blowing off
[03:04:41] <Tom_itx> is the relay engaging?
[03:05:16] <pfred1> he says the pilot light doesn't light now
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[03:05:52] <pfred1> nothing there looks too sensitive to physical shock to me
[03:06:00] <PetefromTn_> no actually nothing comes on
[03:06:05] <PetefromTn_> not even the power on light
[03:06:32] <pfred1> so you dropped the heater you say?
[03:06:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah like 3/8 inch
[03:06:53] <pfred1> pull the board and look at the solder joints by that transformer on it
[03:06:59] <PetefromTn_> it was running while it happened and it shut down
[03:07:05] <pfred1> see if they look a little cracked
[03:07:09] <PetefromTn_> then it turned back on
[03:07:13] <Tom_itx> maybe it has a tipover switch
[03:07:16] <pfred1> if they do reflow them
[03:07:18] <PetefromTn_> after like ten minutes
[03:07:27] <pfred1> yeah it sounds like a bad solder joint to me
[03:07:30] <PetefromTn_> the next day it would not turn on at all
[03:07:45] <pfred1> solder joints can get heat sensitive
[03:08:14] <Tom_itx> follow the power from the plug
[03:08:22] <pfred1> some techs just reflow whole boards
[03:08:23] <Tom_itx> it will turn to dc at the diodes
[03:09:19] <pfred1> but that transformer is heavy and a jolt might have messed its solder joints up
[03:09:40] <Tom_itx> 3/8" isn't that much
[03:10:05] <pfred1> it would be to you if you were a heavy transformer on a brittle PCB
[03:10:06] <PetefromTn_> gonna grab my magnification goggles and inspect it.
[03:10:33] <PetefromTn_> the whole board is only like 3x6 or something like that
[03:11:08] <pfred1> the relay could have taken a beating too like Tom_itx mentioned
[03:12:22] <_methods> tipover safety shutoff?
[03:12:29] <Tom_itx> my suggestion
[03:12:47] <_methods> gas heater?
[03:12:56] <Tom_itx> space heater
[03:13:01] <_methods> ahh
[03:13:09] <pfred1> it is a reddy heat
[03:13:21] <pfred1> you can search online for common problems too
[03:13:31] <pfred1> there are liek a billion of thoseu nits out there
[03:13:41] <pfred1> people post on the net about fixes
[03:14:13] <pfred1> often you can read forums and see a few things come up again. and again
[03:14:30] <PetefromTn_> its a thermo heat model
[03:15:07] <pfred1> I had a car the headlights wouldn't come on I looked online someone said fiddle with the switch
[03:15:14] <PetefromTn_> rmc-kfa75tl
[03:15:16] <pfred1> sure enough that's what it was
[03:15:41] <pfred1> bad switch
[03:15:42] <PetefromTn_> I thought it might be a tipover switch as well
[03:15:59] <PetefromTn_> but I can't tell where the switch is or even what it looks like.
[03:16:13] <pfred1> then do a web search someoen else did the leg work already
[03:16:53] <pfred1> it is rare today to have au nique problem with a consumer item
[03:17:14] <pfred1> if you're having the problems odds are hundreds others have had it already too
[03:18:59] <pfred1> someone might have even posted a video how to fix it
[03:19:07] <PetefromTn_> indeed
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[03:32:53] <s1dev> anyone have any suggestions on how to get a nice set of calipers on the cheap?
[03:33:06] <s1dev> (oxymoron, I know)
[03:33:27] <unfy> what kind of accuracy do you need? length ? digital or analog ?
[03:34:51] <Jymm> chaos theory accuracy =)
[03:35:13] <unfy> then use your fingers :P
[03:37:53] <_methods> auctions and craigslist
[03:38:34] <unfy> if it's 4-6", i'm fond of the calipers I bought for reloading ammunition
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[03:45:33] <jdh> $9.99 HF 6" does all I need. (including OAL)
[03:46:05] <unfy> i wouldn't trust HF for ammo, but... it'd prolly be fine "in general"
[03:46:53] <jdh> I don't have any ammo that needs to be better than half-a-thou
[03:47:42] <unfy> it's one of those things that it claims to do certain measurements, but.... i dunno if i'd trust putting my life in it :P
[03:48:51] <jdh> I've checked a couple of mine against my mitutoyo at work. It's not super pricey either but they measure the same
[03:49:07] <unfy> *thumbs up*
[03:49:34] <unfy> being able to compare it to something is handy. still not for me. guess while i'm a bit of "wing it" for cnc stuff... i'm more picky on ammo heh
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[03:50:43] <jdh> whatever works for you.
[03:51:13] <Tom_itx> rule of thumb in a shop is you should have 3 ways to check any measurement
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[03:51:31] <jdh> with "looks like about 20 thou" being one
[03:51:47] <Tom_itx> not quite what i had in mind
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[03:52:04] <jdh> I have 8 or 10 HF ones :)
[03:52:20] <jdh> I'm not sure those really qualify for cross-comparing though
[03:54:06] <Tom_itx> first articles went thru the cmm
[03:54:33] <Tom_itx> and printouts kept with them
[03:56:27] <unfy> just realized i only had a couple microswitches at home suitable for limit switches. 10 pack ordered.
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[04:10:40] <PetefromTn_> well shit..
[04:11:08] <PetefromTn_> I just spent the last hour trying to figure out what is wrong with the heater...can't find anything
[04:12:05] <PetefromTn_> Tried reflowing the solder joints on the back of the main board around the power inputs and at that transformer
[04:13:18] <PetefromTn_> there is a funky sorta spark plug that looks fine and there is a thermistor in there in the circuit
[04:13:58] <PetefromTn_> I dunno...
[04:14:19] <Tom_itx> it's an igniter
[04:14:24] <Tom_itx> like on a bbq
[04:14:46] <PetefromTn_> yeah I think so..
[04:14:49] <Tom_itx> no heat sensed by the thermistor it shuts down
[04:15:00] <Tom_itx> or regulates the heat
[04:15:04] <PetefromTn_> you mean too much heat
[04:15:17] <Tom_itx> could go both ways
[04:16:09] <Tom_itx> probably not but it could
[04:16:36] <PetefromTn_> no idea
[04:16:54] <PetefromTn_> I thought about ohming it out but without knowing what it does it would not really help me.
[04:17:09] <Tom_itx> i found a sensor on a heating unit on the sheetmetal that had tripped and caused it not to work
[04:17:24] <Tom_itx> just pushed on it and reset like a breaker
[04:17:31] <Tom_itx> all back to normal
[04:17:32] <PetefromTn_> really pisses me off because number one I need it and number two it hardly dropped you could have bumped it walking by and it would do more damage...
[04:17:52] <Tom_itx> it's something simple
[04:17:59] <Tom_itx> or coincidence
[04:18:01] <PetefromTn_> I looked all over the inside and found nothing like a breaker
[04:18:12] <PetefromTn_> did you see the pictures I posted?
[04:18:22] <Tom_itx> ya
[04:18:37] <PetefromTn_> http://www.allpartsinc.com/mmALLPARTS_NEW/Others/RMC-KFA75125210TL.pdf Here's the manual
[04:20:35] <Tom_itx> fuse is good?
[04:20:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is good
[04:21:27] <Tom_itx> power/reset switch
[04:21:34] <Tom_itx> is that a breaker?
[04:21:54] <PetefromTn_> there is a power switch but no breaker that I can see. THe power switch is a simple small switch
[04:22:09] <Tom_itx> that's what i see but it was labelled as such
[04:22:30] <Tom_itx> thermostat turned up?
[04:22:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah I turned it up and down checking.
[04:22:59] <PetefromTn_> You see when it works there is an LED power on light that lets you know it is active
[04:23:11] <PetefromTn_> then when the temp is right it comes on automatically
[04:23:22] <PetefromTn_> right now there is no LED power on light at all
[04:23:30] <PetefromTn_> nothing is working on it
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[04:23:41] <PetefromTn_> it is like its dead despite getting power
[04:25:14] <Tom_itx> is there power _on_ the pcb?
[04:25:40] <PetefromTn_> yeah there seems to be power on the input wires and some of the other terminals have 120vac
[04:26:01] <Tom_itx> you got DC on the other side of the diodes?
[04:26:43] <PetefromTn_> not sure lemme check
[04:26:56] <Tom_itx> check across one of the larger caps
[04:27:13] <Tom_itx> that's likely where it turns to dc
[04:28:17] <Tom_L> Utilizes a photocell to monitor the flame in burn chamber during normal operation.
[04:28:17] <Tom_L> It will cause the heater to shut-off should the burner flame extinguish
[04:28:51] <Tom_L> This heaters electrical system is protected by a fuse mounted to the PCB
[04:28:51] <Tom_L> assembly that protects it and other electrical components from damage.
[04:28:51] <Tom_L> If your heater fails to operate check this fuse first and replace as needed
[04:29:16] <Tom_L> don't check the fuse, check for power on both sides of the fuse
[04:30:48] <PetefromTn_> there does not seem to be any DC on the low voltage side of the board.
[04:31:03] <Tom_itx> so it's something between there then
[04:31:04] <PetefromTn_> I will check the fuse voltage hang on...
[04:31:38] <PetefromTn_> I checked the components from each side to ground for the DC.
[04:34:09] <Tom_itx> check across the big cap
[04:34:21] <Tom_itx> nothing there, it's before it gets to the DC
[04:34:40] <Tom_itx> need a better board pic
[04:35:22] <PetefromTn_> there is AC on both sides of the fuse
[04:35:35] <PetefromTn_> there seems to be voltage across the cap too..
[04:35:44] <Tom_itx> how much?
[04:36:30] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering about that photocell thing
[04:36:35] <Tom_itx> yeah
[04:36:43] <Tom_itx> see where it goes to the board
[04:36:57] <PetefromTn_> it goes to the board on that bottom left black connector
[04:37:02] <Tom_itx> there should be some delay before it shuts off due to startup time for the flame
[04:37:22] <Tom_itx> check resistance across those wires with it unplugged
[04:37:39] <Tom_itx> shine a flashlight on the CDS cell and see if it changes
[04:37:57] <PetefromTn_> thats not a bad idea..
[04:38:14] <PetefromTn_> I honeslty got kinda dizzy laying there on the floor working on it again.
[04:38:30] <Tom_itx> then i'd check the relay
[04:38:34] <PetefromTn_> gonna sit down for a bit here and get level hopefully it will go away
[04:39:03] <Tom_itx> at least it looks like a relay...
[04:39:05] <PetefromTn_> feeling much better today but it has still not gone away..
[04:39:14] <PetefromTn_> there seems to be two relays actually on the board
[04:39:22] <PetefromTn_> one is black rectangle
[04:39:25] <PetefromTn_> other is white
[04:39:34] <PetefromTn_> near the middle right
[04:39:44] <Tom_itx> something on the right side of the board isn't on
[04:39:53] <Tom_itx> causing the left side to not work
[04:39:59] <PetefromTn_> yes I agree
[04:40:28] <PetefromTn_> which would cause the power LED to not come on anymore
[04:40:28] <Tom_itx> check for power on the relay coils
[04:40:33] <Tom_itx> yup
[04:40:37] <Tom_itx> it's run by the chip
[04:40:39] <Tom_itx> probably
[04:41:13] <PetefromTn_> I will get back at it here in a little bit I need to sit still sorry man LOL... I appreciate your assitance
[04:41:35] <PetefromTn_> would be nice if I could figure out what is wrong with it and replace a component or something from the shack
[04:41:46] <PetefromTn_> its a damn good heater
[04:41:55] <PetefromTn_> really warms the shop up quickly
[04:41:58] <Tom_itx> it's fixable
[04:42:03] <PetefromTn_> sure
[04:42:15] <PetefromTn_> the thermostat is nice to have too
[04:42:26] <PetefromTn_> the last one I had I had to buy an external thermostat
[04:42:35] <PetefromTn_> and it was kind of a pain in the ass to use
[04:42:43] <PetefromTn_> this one just set it and forget it.
[04:42:58] <PetefromTn_> I usually turn it on in the morning during the winter
[04:43:11] <Tom_L> how old is it?
[04:43:13] <PetefromTn_> and let it run for like 20 minutes or so and knocks the chill off quick
[04:43:25] <PetefromTn_> I dunno a year or two or something like that
[04:43:29] <Tom_L> k
[04:43:48] <Tom_L> not reached the designed fail date yet :D
[04:43:50] <PetefromTn_> then my electric heater out there can maintain it.
[04:43:58] <PetefromTn_> or perhaps it did LOL
[04:44:34] <PetefromTn_> the electric heater is not strong enough to warm the shop from a cold morning or at least it would take all day long to get there...
[04:44:41] <Tom_L> looks like a cheap single sided phenolic board
[04:44:54] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is nothing earth shattering that is for sure.
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[04:45:42] <PetefromTn_> I wish I could find a tip over switch or something it would seem to be the most likely issue
[04:45:54] <Tom_L> follow the power and see which relay it goes to first
[04:45:54] <PetefromTn_> but there does not seem to be any mention of it in the manual
[04:45:56] <Tom_L> check that
[04:46:17] <PetefromTn_> OK
[04:46:26] <Tom_L> see what runs the relay
[04:47:03] <Tom_L> or tap on one
[04:47:22] <PetefromTn_> I am wondering if that optical switch thing just shuts the machine down so it wont fire the heater or if it kills the main power...
[04:47:45] <Tom_L> it may be hooked to one of the relays
[04:48:39] <PetefromTn_> that blue wire that runs along the wire goes to some kinda bulb on the right that is zip strapped to the electric plug cable just inside the cabinet.
[04:48:57] <PetefromTn_> not sure if it is a heat sensor or what.
[04:51:12] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/rue/7I43.jpg
[04:51:13] <Tom_L> o
[04:51:37] <Tom_L> i'd rather have your problem than have to replace U6 & U10
[04:52:05] <Tom_L> i got U9 already
[04:52:15] <PetefromTn_> where are they
[04:52:30] <Tom_L> right side by the chokes
[04:52:30] <unfy> right side
[04:52:47] <Tom_L> 2 smps for the fpga
[04:52:53] <Tom_L> 1.2 and 3.3v
[04:53:30] <Tom_L> bad thing is getting the center pad with no hot air gun
[04:53:48] <PetefromTn_> I see U10 but can't find the others...
[04:54:05] <Tom_L> one by each of the chokes
[04:54:32] <Tom_L> left of U9 and above and right of U9
[04:54:41] <PetefromTn_> oh just above the long slots
[04:55:05] <PetefromTn_> how do you R an R those
[04:55:14] <Tom_L> hot air
[04:55:22] <Tom_L> but i don't have one
[04:55:27] <Tom_L> i may try the toaster oven
[04:55:43] <PetefromTn_> how much is that board?
[04:55:51] <Tom_L> i forget
[04:55:56] <Tom_L> prolly 80 bux
[04:56:11] <Tom_L> i can get a better one for something like 0
[04:56:13] <Tom_L> 60
[04:56:26] <PetefromTn_> better than a Mesa?
[04:56:47] <Tom_L> it is a mesa
[04:56:57] <Tom_L> 7i90? i forget the pn
[04:57:03] <PetefromTn_> ok
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[04:57:41] <Tom_L> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=7i90&product_id=291
[04:57:50] <Tom_L> 72 IO instead of 48
[04:58:21] <PetefromTn_> what gets plugged into the long slots?
[04:58:41] <Tom_L> 7i47
[04:58:57] <Tom_L> which i blew too
[04:59:08] <Tom_L> replaced 3 chips on it already
[04:59:21] <PetefromTn_> Oh I know about blowing shit up LOL
[04:59:32] <Tom_L> i still don't know how though
[04:59:58] <PetefromTn_> still not sure if my 7i77 is fixable, getting fixed, or not worth fixing....LOL
[05:00:55] <pcw_home> I fixed it and its been on my desk for a couple weeks now :-(
[05:01:08] <PetefromTn_> LOL really..
[05:01:21] <Tom_L> maybe come payday i'll order a couple boards pcw_home
[05:01:31] <Tom_L> i got the shopping cart full already
[05:01:44] <PetefromTn_> Christmas is coming hehe
[05:01:54] <PetefromTn_> get your order in
[05:02:05] <Tom_L> been too busy to worry about it much this month
[05:02:25] <PetefromTn_> I sure wish I could afford to buy shit for my new lathe here
[05:02:36] <Tom_L> just mounted my new spindle encoder too. haven't been able to test it
[05:02:37] <PetefromTn_> its gonna take a bit to get the cash for that stuff
[05:02:41] <pcw_home> I apologize that it has not been returned we have been so busy that Im just putting out fires
[05:02:49] <PetefromTn_> Oh its okay man
[05:02:57] <Tom_L> for ssi?
[05:02:59] <PetefromTn_> I am not in any hurry
[05:03:04] <Tom_L> couldn't help that...
[05:03:27] <Tom_L> pcw_home, thanks for the chips btw...
[05:04:07] <Tom_L> i know a guy with a hot air gun, i may see if he'll pull em off for me
[05:04:08] <PetefromTn_> I was even considering selling something else to get the parts for the lathe quicker...
[05:04:31] <PetefromTn_> like a kidney er something :D
[05:05:01] <Tom_L> i think the 7i90 is the way to go on this anyway
[05:05:19] <Tom_L> it's just one of those things.. i wanna see if i can fix it
[05:07:13] <Connor> My Christmas is pretty much ruined..
[05:07:24] <PetefromTn_> Oh you too
[05:07:39] <Tom_L> mine isn't that far behind yours
[05:07:44] <PetefromTn_> have you talked to your insurance guys
[05:07:56] <Connor> Since the Mold and stuff was caused by the HVAC condensation issues.. insurance isn't covering anything.
[05:08:15] <PetefromTn_> really?
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[05:08:48] <PetefromTn_> I swear I think insurance is a big scam anymore
[05:08:57] <Tom_itx> really?
[05:08:58] <PetefromTn_> I have seldom got them to pay for shit
[05:09:10] <Tom_itx> when wasn't it?
[05:09:32] <Connor> Going to cost $25,000.00 to $30,000.00 to get the mold removed, crawl space remediated, and encapsulated. Doesn't count Having the HVAC duct work replaced and finish work...
[05:10:10] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[05:10:34] <Tom_itx> so let your laser help you out
[05:10:47] <Tom_itx> cause of fire... undetermined..
[05:11:09] <Connor> Tom_itx: I don't have a laser. and I couldn't sleep at night doing that.
[05:11:20] <Tom_itx> well i wouldn't either
[05:11:36] <Tom_itx> just saying..
[05:11:37] <Connor> So, January 5th, they're going to come and start work. We're going to have to live in a RV for 1 or 2 weeks..
[05:11:54] <Connor> because we have 5 dogs and I work from home.
[05:12:17] <PetefromTn_> did you get a loan to pay for all of that?
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[05:13:03] <Connor> Home Equality line of credit. Started the process today.
[05:13:36] <Connor> You know... I'm 39 years old.. and we have 6 years left to pay off the house.. the HELOC is going to have to be for 10 years..
[05:13:41] <PetefromTn_> I guess you need to decide if your house is worth that much or not
[05:14:05] <Connor> Would have to be repaired regardless...
[05:14:17] <Connor> couldn't sell in the condition it's in.
[05:14:33] <Connor> at least... not for enough to be worth while
[05:15:11] <Connor> We're going to talk to the HVAC company who installed the unit..
[05:15:19] <PetefromTn_> I would look at all options before I made a decision...
[05:16:01] <PetefromTn_> even extreme ones..
[05:16:18] <PetefromTn_> NOT ILLEGAL extreme ones.
[05:16:33] <Connor> The new supply duct we had them add for the sunroom and my workshop, goes up through a closet in the back office... the closet is never used.. and stays closed.. There is mold in the closet next to the duct work...
[05:16:40] <Connor> something is WAY wrong with that.
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[05:17:52] <Connor> someone saying that they may have not taken into account the duct work with the upsizing of the HVAC and the duct work might be too small.
[05:20:54] <PetefromTn_> no idea man
[05:21:11] <PetefromTn_> mostly the size is based on the square footage of the living space
[05:21:50] <Connor> Yes, but if duct work is too small.. it increases pressure, air moves faster, and the duct work gets colder and it condensates more.
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[05:23:05] <PetefromTn_> I doubt you will get any cooperation from the AC company but you might want to talk to a lawyer about it too...
[05:23:11] <Connor> and, we told them when we got the new system, we wanted to keep the house colder than the old unit could do.. it was having issues keeping temperatures around 78 or 80 in the summer.. we like it much cooler than that..
[05:23:33] <PetefromTn_> well yeah LOL
[05:23:52] <Connor> It's a reputable company, and I'm sure they don't want their name dragged through the mudd.
[05:24:27] <PetefromTn_> I hope so for your sake.
[05:24:49] <Connor> We'll Don Dare their A$$ (for those of you not local, that's a Local News reporter who goes after company for consumer affairs stuff..)
[05:25:05] <Connor> It's worth a shot.
[05:25:13] <PetefromTn_> Well I am gonna hit the sack. Good luck
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[05:31:12] <zeeshan|2> has anyone worked on some dental machines before
[05:33:59] <Tom_itx> i've been behind a few
[05:34:11] <zeeshan|2> one of my dad's components broke
[05:34:12] <zeeshan|2> on the tray
[05:34:16] <Tom_itx> that's about the extent of it
[05:34:16] <zeeshan|2> i cant tell what material it is
[05:34:23] <zeeshan|2> its either mangesium or aluminum
[05:34:26] <zeeshan|2> i really cant tell
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[05:42:22] <[cube]> migth be titanium
[05:42:38] <[cube]> titanium is approx same weight as aluminum
[05:42:46] <[cube]> and when you grind it it makes tell tale white sparks
[05:43:07] <[cube]> i say titanium because its typically 'biologically safe'
[05:44:36] <zeeshan|2> ok ill take a look
[05:45:20] <XXCoder1> titanium is fun. It's actually quite common in earth but we just has no effecient way to get it in metal form
[05:45:34] <XXCoder1> did you guys know alum was more valuable than gold?
[05:45:50] <XXCoder1> thats why certain phillic symbol of usa is capped with alum
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[05:49:26] <tiwake> I was turning titanium earlier today
[05:49:45] <tiwake> I'll go back and (hopefully) finish that little project tomorrow
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[05:50:19] <XXCoder1> cool
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[06:03:38] <[cube]> guys, any ideas on how to improve this acme nut (replace it with something quick and easy)
[06:03:39] <[cube]> http://i.imgur.com/GunwF7R.jpg
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[06:04:38] <[cube]> wondering if there's some anti-backlash alternative that's spring loaded or something
[06:04:38] <[cube]> im sure there is but I don't know where to source it
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[06:19:46] <renesis> thats sliced the wrong way
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[07:13:37] <archivist> sliced the right way to adjust backlash, tighten the screw across the slice, if it is too stiff on part of the travel the screw is worn
[07:16:43] <archivist> [cube], ^^
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[07:28:15] <renesis> archivist: yeah mine is sliced lengthwise
[07:28:34] <renesis> and you just tighten the nut onto the screw
[07:29:28] <archivist> that is only ok if the nut/screw has enough clearance else it will just trap the screw
[07:29:35] <renesis> the perpendicular slice seems like it would wear faster, shrug
[07:30:17] <renesis> not sure what you mean
[07:30:18] <archivist> well it should be two parts cut in the middle with a proper adjuster
[07:31:09] <renesis> its just a big brass nut sliced down one side
[07:31:44] <archivist> I know, it relies on the taper of the thread form in your case
[07:31:54] <renesis> two screws to clamp, one screw in between that puts force to open it up, lock screw
[07:33:18] <archivist> nearly every one else does it in the direction of the working forces
[07:33:21] <renesis> the one pictured above seems like it would wear quick, then maybe break trying to tighten it down more
[07:33:32] <renesis> right but with a bigass spring
[07:34:49] <renesis> brass stuff is consumable, so it seems like you kind of get a limited amount of adjustment on that one before need to replace
[07:35:31] <archivist> the better ones have two parts and adjusting screw/nut, the spring method adds friction but can deal with variation in screw wear
[07:36:09] <renesis> oh like another brass nut that floats?
[07:36:17] <renesis> and then screws to offset?
[07:36:28] <renesis> yeah that would last a long time
[07:38:44] <archivist> your type can still have backlash even though you have adjusted it to be tight rotationally
[07:41:25] <archivist> I have seen split nuts on lathes where all the thread has worn away and no amount of grip would get any travel they, just grip the outer of the thread
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[07:58:30] <Deejay> moin
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[08:45:00] <renesis> archivist: yeah its usually little less than .001 on my thing so i dont always set backlash in config
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[08:45:46] <renesis> i dont really think it has the power to wear the nut down enough to be non functional
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[16:39:22] <archivist> bit quiet in here. I imagine everyone being dragged out for xmas shopping
[16:43:19] <pcw_home> bah humbug!
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[16:43:25] <roycroft> i'm brewing today
[16:44:05] <roycroft> i'm allergic to malls, and so it's especially important to avoid them this time of year
[16:44:12] <roycroft> my reaction could be strong and sutained
[16:44:15] <roycroft> sustained
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[17:11:17] <Tom_itx> archivist, we were out walking on black friday and it was pretty bleak. i think everyone is still sleeping
[17:11:45] <Tom_itx> puppy pee call got me up
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[17:13:21] <Tom_itx> what's a good method to make a delay relay so logic power comes up after the main power is settled?
[17:13:43] <Tom_itx> i'm sure i could buy a delay relay
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[17:31:16] <archivist> or get the logic settled before you run up the main power
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[17:40:21] <Tom_itx> it relies on the main power for it's source
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[19:39:12] * Loetmichel just pours himself another "peat tea" for the evening... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15413&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ... i should get an approbiate glass ;-)
[19:41:09] <renesis> guys guys
[19:41:22] <renesis> 3 axis mill, limit and home switches on a parport
[19:42:19] <renesis> all home switches in parallel, then parallel limit switches for each axis
[19:42:29] <renesis> sounds good?
[19:45:17] <Loetmichel> sounds ok
[19:45:27] <Loetmichel> but i would omit the linit switches
[19:45:32] <Loetmichel> for a stepper CNC
[19:45:44] <Loetmichel> they are only useful in servo cncs
[19:46:03] <Loetmichel> because steppers caant destroy something / cant "run away"
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[19:48:00] <zeeshan> ??
[19:48:08] <zeeshan> all you need is an overload condition
[19:48:14] <zeeshan> and you can screw up your positioning
[19:48:21] <zeeshan> limit switches are absolutely necessary
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[19:49:24] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: usually in "normal" home mills the steppers are simply not powerful enough to destroy a thing
[19:49:43] <Loetmichel> they just ram the mechanical ends and rattle around there
[19:49:47] <Loetmichel> without any damage
[19:50:07] <zeeshan> shrug my lathe uses 3:1 1200oz-in
[19:50:14] <zeeshan> it can likely do damage :P
[19:50:16] <Loetmichel> but as i said: just my own experience
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[19:51:37] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: the usual "cnc6040" and similar has about 1Nm stepeprs direct driving a 16*4mm ballscrew
[19:51:43] <Loetmichel> you cant destroy anything with that
[19:51:47] <Loetmichel> not even a finger
[19:51:54] <Loetmichel> tried that multiple times ;-)
[19:51:59] <Loetmichel> ... accidentally
[19:52:12] <Loetmichel> unless you put the finger under the rotating mill bit ;-)
[20:08:57] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15977406582/
[20:09:01] <zeeshan> im suprised the factory cnc box
[20:09:07] <zeeshan> didnt use insulated connectors
[20:09:11] <zeeshan> the blades are so close :P
[20:09:50] <zeeshan> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Tr48IBIRL._SX300_.jpg
[20:09:51] <zeeshan> like that
[20:09:51] <zeeshan> :D
[20:11:16] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: uh.
[20:11:36] <Loetmichel> i wpuld at least use a bit of shrink tube on that car connectors
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[20:22:14] <Loetmichel> ha, that laphroaig is absolutely great... just have to thin it with a bit of water... (too strong otherwise ;-)
[20:22:37] <ssi> D:
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[20:43:44] <dutchfish> hi, i am in need for a gcode editor that does colorcoding, does one excists?
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[20:45:03] <dutchfish> i also want to know if there is a doc out there that lists all the gcode commands, with a short explanation
[20:46:08] <pcw_home> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Highlighting_In_Gedit
[20:46:43] <pcw_home> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode.html
[20:47:39] <dutchfish> pcw_home, thanks, can this be done in other editors as well? i use mainly kate, geany, mcedit (i have no gnome)
[20:49:08] <dutchfish> pcw_home, and thanks again for the gcode link, that helps me alot!
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[21:01:16] <pcw_home> dont know about the other editors, pretty sure there's a gcode mode for emacs though
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[21:10:48] <LatheBuilder> nick <LatheBuilder2>
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[21:11:41] <LatheBuilder2> Hello! Anyone on who has tuned a servo system with Mesa hardware? I have a bit of a silly question to ask.
[21:12:21] <LatheBuilder2> My servo amp itself is tuned from the previous installation on this machine (retrofit). Drives are set to zero drift.
[21:13:40] <ssi> lots of us have
[21:13:48] <LatheBuilder2> Is it good practive to have the drive and linuxcnc's P, ff1, & ff2 all tuned? Drive first. That is how I am reading Mr. Thornton's tutorial on gnipsel.com
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[21:13:57] <ssi> yeah, that's the way I do it
[21:14:08] <ssi> once you have it set up so that you can jog the axis around, watch it in halscope
[21:14:19] <ssi> you can fine-tune the drift by looking at the velocity trace in scope
[21:14:27] <ssi> if the velocity trace is dead zero, then it's not drifting
[21:14:49] <LatheBuilder2> Thanks for the sanity check ssi
[21:14:53] <ssi> if the trace goes above or below zero, that means that the drive is drifting and linuxcnc is having to output a non-zero velocity to hold it constant
[21:15:15] <ssi> sorry not the velocity trace, the error trace
[21:15:34] <ssi> then you turn up P til it gets unstable
[21:15:38] <ssi> then the long fast cruises
[21:15:50] <ssi> you should see a bump in error, then it'll settle out to a finite error amount, then a reverse bump on the decel
[21:16:05] <ssi> tune FF1 to null the steady-state error
[21:16:19] <ssi> then tune FF2 to null the accel error, the bumps at the beginning and end
[21:16:30] <ssi> it's pretty easy with that method
[21:18:57] <LatheBuilder2> right on. For anyone listening in that helped me last week, turns out it was on a travel limit switch. somewhat embarassing but it was doing its job correctly. OT override to get it back off the limit and I was good to go again
[21:21:35] <LatheBuilder2> The tip from pcw_home turned out to be just the thing. Checked through the config files and realized nothing was broken there...traced the estop circuit again and found the OT switch tripped.
[21:23:06] <LatheBuilder2> (stepping away from chat to get on with tuning)
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[21:45:13] <renesis> 23:52:36 < Loetmichel> zeeshan: usually in "normal" home mills the steppers are simply not powerful enough to destroy a thing
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[21:45:39] <renesis> yeah if i have an endmill spinning, and it gets thrown off, id want it to stop
[21:45:46] <renesis> because endmills crashing can fuck shit up
[21:45:57] <renesis> even if the motors dont have enough power to jam anything at limits
[21:46:09] <zeeshan> i dunno about you
[21:46:15] <zeeshan> but i dont like motors crashing into shit
[21:46:19] <zeeshan> even if they dont do damage
[21:46:20] <zeeshan> :P
[21:46:31] <renesis> well thats the point
[21:46:50] <zeeshan> but hey, if he likes having stuff crash
[21:46:53] <renesis> id rather have the machine stop than the shit hit end and fall off the screw of lock up
[21:46:54] <zeeshan> more power to him :P
[21:46:57] <renesis> and throw itself further off
[21:47:15] <Loetmichel> renesis: cant follow you
[21:47:41] <Loetmichel> if the machine moves to end position it simply stops because there is an mechanical bumper
[21:47:46] <renesis> if there is an error condition do to overloading, and that causes the axis to reach limits during another move, i want it to stop
[21:47:55] <renesis> until it moves the other way
[21:48:05] <renesis> its not like it will stay stopped
[21:48:13] <Loetmichel> renesis: stepper axis wont know that they are overloaded
[21:48:13] <renesis> my steppers have never gotten stuck, really
[21:48:29] <Loetmichel> and end limot switches wont help in that situation either
[21:48:30] <renesis> right but stepper axis can tell if its gone too far
[21:48:38] <renesis> they may eventually
[21:48:46] <renesis> if it survives the overload condition
[21:48:59] <renesis> and its now offset from actual position
[21:49:06] <renesis> a movement might cause it to reach limits
[21:49:07] <Loetmichel> no, it cant
[21:49:15] <renesis> with switches it would stop cycle
[21:49:23] <renesis> without switches it keeps fuckin up
[21:49:32] <Loetmichel> unless you have a form of position control
[21:49:33] <renesis> eh?
[21:49:36] <Loetmichel> ie_ encoders on the stepper shafts
[21:49:41] <renesis> if it hits a switch when its not supposed to itll stop
[21:49:55] <Loetmichel> limit switches will do nothing there either
[21:50:00] <renesis> why not
[21:50:01] <zeeshan> they wont?
[21:50:06] <zeeshan> the stepper will keep running?
[21:50:08] <zeeshan> ..?
[21:50:09] <zeeshan> theyre hard limits.
[21:50:09] <renesis> what are limit switches for then?
[21:50:13] <Loetmichel> yes, but thats WAY to late
[21:50:16] <renesis> eh?
[21:50:16] <zeeshan> no its not.
[21:50:17] <Deejay> gn8
[21:50:21] <renesis> better than never
[21:50:28] <renesis> and it could be next movement
[21:50:33] <renesis> if the stepper was near limits
[21:50:35] <zeeshan> ive bashed into my limit switch at G00
[21:50:39] <zeeshan> it stops perfectly fine.
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[21:50:49] <Loetmichel> renesis: they are good for noting on a small stepper mill. as i tried to say ;)=
[21:50:58] <renesis> eh?
[21:51:16] <renesis> dude how is stopping the machine when its offset from controlled position good for nothing
[21:51:21] <Loetmichel> and it would have stopped a fewm mm later anyways because there would be the mechainical stop ;-)
[21:51:29] <renesis> um
[21:51:36] <zeeshan> lol
[21:51:37] <renesis> not if it was offset the other way
[21:51:46] <zeeshan> renesis i think he gets that
[21:52:03] <zeeshan> he just seems to think its better to bash your stepper with a meech stop
[21:52:12] <zeeshan> and sending a nice shock through your screw
[21:52:14] <renesis> even if that happens it wont stop
[21:52:15] <zeeshan> and machine
[21:52:23] <zeeshan> and let your stepper driver output
[21:52:25] <zeeshan> a shit load of current
[21:52:29] <renesis> my machine hits ends, get stuck, and then goes the other way
[21:52:32] <renesis> like nothing happens
[21:52:33] <Loetmichel> to make that clear as glass: i am NOT talking about biog machiens with tons of table that moves with thick powerful servos
[21:52:38] <zeeshan> and overheat your stepper :P
[21:52:41] <renesis> hitting the ends doesnt get it stuck permanent
[21:52:54] <Loetmichel> have shoot off a mechanical stop in a test run myself with such a monster
[21:53:02] <zeeshan> Loetmichel: the point of a limit siwtch is
[21:53:05] <zeeshan> is to kill power
[21:53:07] <Loetmichel> (flew across the hall into the drywall)
[21:53:14] <zeeshan> your mechaniczl stop method means itll keep consuming power
[21:53:21] <zeeshan> until you intervene yourself.
[21:53:25] <renesis> itll just keep running the cycle
[21:53:34] <Loetmichel> it will untils someone hits the estop. right
[21:53:35] <renesis> but offset on the axis
[21:53:37] <zeeshan> yea
[21:53:40] <renesis> what estop
[21:53:45] <zeeshan> and thats not a good idea when you're not paying attention
[21:53:51] <Loetmichel> [esc] :-)
[21:53:54] <zeeshan> which is when stuff likes to f up
[21:53:54] <renesis> the limits are basically estop
[21:53:54] <zeeshan> :)
[21:54:03] <renesis> its not supposed to hit limits during a cycle
[21:54:06] <renesis> if it does, it stops
[21:55:25] <Loetmichel> renesis: in short i was saying: i would omit the limit swichtes on small machines because usually they have not the power to damage the ways and you need any mm travel on small machines anyway, so the ~5mm you'll need as headroom for the swiches may be an annoyance.
[21:55:42] <renesis> they can damage the table
[21:56:04] <renesis> they can damage the fixture, waste a tool, damage the bed
[21:56:15] <Loetmichel> they can do all that with limit switches too
[21:56:25] <renesis> right but theres a chance it may be stopped
[21:56:44] <Loetmichel> unless you have limitswitches that can beadjusted to take care of the higher workpiece becuase you new mill bit is longer...
[21:57:01] <renesis> um
[21:57:27] <renesis> adjusting the headstock wouldnt change the Z mount versus the Z column
[21:57:39] <Loetmichel> there is literally no scenario where the limit swithches would have prevented ANY of my failures
[21:57:40] <renesis> and Z isnt the only axis
[21:57:55] <renesis> thats nice, that doesnt mean they wouldnt prevent any failure
[21:58:32] <Loetmichel> but any failure they would prevent are the ones where one would have pressed estop WAY in advance
[21:58:48] <renesis> what if i was turned the other way for a few seconds
[21:58:50] <renesis> or minutes
[21:59:11] <Loetmichel> renesis: then you are to blame. not the machine
[21:59:27] <Loetmichel> machines KNOW when you look aways and start to fuck up then
[21:59:30] <renesis> sure, typical cnc tech jokes involve going for coffee
[21:59:42] <renesis> but that doesnt change that automation can prevent human error in some instances
[21:59:45] <renesis> which is the whole point
[21:59:52] <Loetmichel> ... thats why i have my CNC at the company setup with camera and VNC ;-)
[21:59:54] <renesis> also the error could happen in a matter of seconds
[22:00:12] <renesis> yeah because a camera and vnc is gonna help you notice and hit the estop in time
[22:00:19] <Loetmichel> so i could supervise it from the office
[22:00:27] <Loetmichel> it does
[22:00:28] <renesis> youve yet to say why having limit switches is a bad thing
[22:00:34] <Loetmichel> ok, one second lag in there
[22:00:46] <renesis> it could fuckup in a half second
[22:00:47] <Loetmichel> i never said its a bad thing, just useless
[22:00:51] <renesis> um
[22:01:10] <renesis> it locks up feeding 1in to the left .25" into the movement
[22:01:20] <renesis> then tries to feed .75" to the right
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[22:01:24] <Loetmichel> s/useless: not worth the lack in travel on small machines
[22:01:28] <renesis> but its only .25" from the limit
[22:01:38] <renesis> right before a 1" plunge
[22:01:45] <renesis> limit goes off instead of it plunging
[22:01:55] <renesis> that was hella simple to think of
[22:02:01] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY
[22:02:02] <renesis> anyway, later
[22:11:38] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: There's probably a way to tweak some latency out of that.
[22:12:30] <Loetmichel> i have already tweaked out about 2 seconds of latency
[22:12:44] <Loetmichel> the last ~half second will be the codec i think
[22:13:17] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: The codec is what I was talking about. I assume you're using x264?
[22:13:24] <Loetmichel> works perfect for detecting a broken bit, tho ;-)
[22:13:29] <Loetmichel> no, mjpeg
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[22:13:48] <Loetmichel> the machine is only an athlon 64 x2
[22:13:52] <Loetmichel> 3ghz
[22:14:06] <Loetmichel> tha has not enough power to do the milling AND encoding x264 ;-)
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[22:14:28] <FinboySlick> I haven't toyed with it in a long time but mjpeg should give you a theorical latency of just one frame.
[22:14:42] <Loetmichel> i know
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[22:15:18] <FinboySlick> Buffering in the USB camera?
[22:15:28] <Loetmichel> possible
[22:15:54] <FinboySlick> ps3 move cameras are pretty fast if you want low latency usb cam on the cheap.
[22:16:01] <Loetmichel> and i found no way to send the mjpeg steram from the camera directly without recoding it
[22:16:08] <Loetmichel> that would be the best solution
[22:16:20] <Loetmichel> you have seen the cam?
[22:16:47] <Loetmichel> the black pin in the vacuum hood around the mill bit?
[22:17:03] <Loetmichel> uts one of these "waterproof endoscope" cams
[22:17:07] <FinboySlick> Wasn't sure.
[22:18:08] <FinboySlick> That doesn't solve streaming, but you can check the latency of the cam itself by watching the local v4l stream with mplayer.
[22:18:12] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/USB-Endoskop-Kamera-15m-Mini-Inspektion-Kanal-spy-wire-cam-wasserdicht-4-LED-DE-/351107363664?pt=Mess_Pr%C3%BCftechnik&hash=item51bfa13350 <- like these just with 5m cable
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[22:19:08] <skunkworks> the mazak is running with a $100 dollar servo off ebay. They must have been chasing their tails...
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[22:19:50] <tiwake> touching off tools
[22:20:11] <tiwake> I'll let you guys know if making titanium shot glasses is worth it
[22:21:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15259&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- there you can see the cam in the brown/white duster hood
[22:21:10] <Loetmichel> @ FinboySlick
[22:22:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15256&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- better pic
[22:24:04] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: What are you using to encode to mjpeg?
[22:24:13] <Loetmichel> vlc
[22:25:40] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: you got netcat/nc on both machines?
[22:26:05] <Loetmichel> no, not on the windows box in the office ;-)
[22:26:25] <FinboySlick> nc.exe would do the trick, I think.
[22:26:29] <Loetmichel> but its ok how it is
[22:26:44] <Loetmichel> the half second delay is no problem
[22:27:02] <Loetmichel> if i see a broken mill bit i have enough time to stop the machine
[22:27:04] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[22:33:39] <FinboySlick> Alright. Anyway, the basic idea to stream without recording would be along those lines: mjpegencoder | nc <target ip> <port> Then you nc -l -p <port> | mplayer
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[23:47:13] <tiwake> woo
[23:47:28] <tiwake> drilling the titanium out with this spade drill went so much better than I thought
[23:47:48] <tiwake> spade drills are badass
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