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[01:13:16] <zeeshan> man its been so long since eaton
[01:13:23] <zeeshan> ive dealt with this before but i totally forgot
[01:13:37] <zeeshan> is it better to pressurize an enclosure or vacuum
[01:13:59] <zeeshan> i remember we used to pressurize electrical enclosures that were in dangerous vapors where sparks could cause an explosion
[01:14:20] <zeeshan> so by keeping it pressurized with an external air source, the vapors never were allowed in the box
[01:14:33] <zeeshan> but im thinking from an maintenance perspective, whats better? :p
[01:14:54] <unfy> ordered some 4 pin microphone plugs and jacks
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[01:23:19] <SpeedEvil> 'better' - for what
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[01:25:52] <Rab> zeeshan, your cabinet will be in a machining environment with possible conductive particulates. I would pressurize the cabinet, or at least use positive pressure ventilation with filtration.
[01:26:20] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: maintenance wise
[01:26:28] <zeeshan> meaning less dust accumlation etc
[01:26:40] <zeeshan> rab okay good!
[01:26:47] <zeeshan> that seems easy
[01:26:54] <zeeshan> i just gotta find a 105mm bolt on filter
[01:26:56] <Rab> You have, like, a bare motherboard and all sorts of other stuff in there.
[01:27:18] <Rab> Or make a little plenum that takes some kind of standard filter you can slide in.
[01:27:20] <zeeshan> the fans i have have 4.125" holes apart
[01:27:40] <zeeshan> rab less work is nice
[01:27:53] <zeeshan> i was thinking just a bolt on filter that can wedge between the grill and the fan?
[01:27:56] <zeeshan> im sure they make some
[01:28:05] <Rab> Maintenance-wise, a commodity slide-in filter will be less work.
[01:28:12] <zeeshan> can i buy one
[01:28:14] <zeeshan> that wedges in?
[01:28:36] <zeeshan> http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Comair%20Rotron%20PDFs/whisper%20XL%20AC.pdf
[01:28:38] <zeeshan> specs of fan
[01:28:42] <SpeedEvil> Sealing a non-sealed device is practically impossible to do
[01:28:53] <SpeedEvil> putting a filtered air source isn't hard at all
[01:29:08] <Rab> Weller makes muffin-fan-sized activated charcoal filters for fume extractors, $5-10 for a 3-pack. I don't know if those are suitable for dust filtration, though.
[01:29:23] <Rab> They're meant for flux fumes.
[01:30:38] <zeeshan> http://www.endpcnoise.com/sites/default/files/nexus_fan_filter.jpg
[01:30:39] <Rab> I make a ghetto extractor using a spare filter, perhaps this will inspire you:
http://reboots.g-cipher.net/extractor.jpg
[01:30:39] <zeeshan> there we go
[01:30:42] <zeeshan> thats what imn looking for
[01:30:48] <zeeshan> but in 4.125 bolt pattern :/
[01:30:57] <zeeshan> hmm that one is for a 120mm fan
[01:31:01] <Rab> How many fans do you have?
[01:31:05] <zeeshan> these fans outer dimensions are 120mm..
[01:31:06] <zeeshan> 4
[01:31:21] <zeeshan> rab thats too hardcore
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[01:31:22] <zeeshan> :D
[01:31:34] <Rab> You can make a plywood thing that screws over all four fans and holds one rectangular filter.
[01:31:42] <zeeshan> well the fans are already mounted..
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[01:31:53] <Rab> You don't want to replace four filters every time.
[01:32:01] <zeeshan> i dont mind lol
[01:32:09] <zeeshan> i like your idea of the slide in filter
[01:32:13] <Rab> You just said you want to minimize work.
[01:32:19] <zeeshan> but i wanna buy something premade that'll work with the bolt pattern i already have
[01:32:36] <zeeshan> a housing that well wedge in between the fan and the grill
[01:33:45] <Rab> zeeshan, at the e-waste place there were pallets of VFDs. From palm-sized up to pallet-sized; Toshiba, Hitachi, etc. They were all 3-phase input and useless to me.
[01:33:58] <zeeshan> dude
[01:34:00] <zeeshan> we talked about this
[01:34:04] <zeeshan> if its 240vac 3 phase input
[01:34:06] <zeeshan> GRAB EM!!!
[01:34:14] <Rab> There were too many!
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[01:34:17] <zeeshan> you can derate em by 1/2 and run em off single phase
[01:34:17] <XXCoder> VFDs
[01:34:25] <zeeshan> NOOOOOOO
[01:34:27] <Rab> zeeshan, really.
[01:34:27] <zeeshan> go back and get some!
[01:34:31] <zeeshan> yes
[01:34:33] <Rab> Yeah, I'm thinking I should.
[01:34:47] <zeeshan> if you can grab some 2hp ones
[01:34:48] <XXCoder> I have NO IDEA how to find those places
[01:34:49] <zeeshan> ill send $!
[01:34:51] <Rab> They may all be broken.
[01:34:57] <XXCoder> I would like to buy scrap 8020s for example!
[01:35:03] <Rab> XXCoder, extrusion?
[01:35:08] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:35:10] <zeeshan> XXCoder: fakn rab is hooked up majorly
[01:35:11] <zeeshan> :)
[01:35:21] <Rab> XXCoder, look for scrap metal recycling in your town.
[01:35:21] <zeeshan> i need some of his luck!
[01:35:42] <XXCoder> yeah problem is they all open and close within my work hours :P
[01:35:48] <Rab> Yeah, typical.
[01:36:08] <zeeshan> rab
[01:36:12] <zeeshan> i think im gonna order 20 of these
[01:36:13] <zeeshan> lol
[01:36:16] <zeeshan> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/EA14-Black-Dustproof-120mm-Mesh-Case-Fan-Dust-Filter-Cover-Grill-for-PC-Computer/1886540675.html
[01:36:28] <XXCoder> just 20? lol
[01:36:29] <XXCoder> jk
[01:36:30] <zeeshan> they look like an easy solution
[01:36:57] <Rab> And most places have fairly high turnover, so you need to troll pretty frequently to chance on the good stuff.
[01:36:57] <zeeshan> wait
[01:36:59] <zeeshan> wtf is going on here
[01:37:10] <zeeshan> the holes arent thru holes
[01:37:26] <zeeshan> hmm
[01:37:31] <zeeshan> it looks like you bolt on the grill first
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[01:37:38] <zeeshan> and then there is an outer piece that snaps in place?
[01:37:39] <Rab> They may snap onto pegs.
[01:37:49] <Rab> You could sure drill 'em out, though.
[01:37:49] <zeeshan> sweet!!
[01:38:00] <zeeshan> that'll make filter replacement even easier
[01:38:50] <zeeshan> sweet.. my local store has em
[01:39:15] <zeeshan> http://www.sayal.com/STORE/Action_SEARCH.asp?search_key=fan+filter&Submit=Search
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[01:41:10] <Rab> zeeshan, your fans blow into the case?
[01:41:16] <zeeshan> yea
[01:41:20] <Rab> OK
[01:41:46] <zeeshan> old pic
[01:41:46] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15289716823/
[01:41:49] <zeeshan> ive moved them to the bottom
[01:41:57] <zeeshan> theyre not inside the case..
[01:41:58] <zeeshan> theyre outside
[01:41:58] <zeeshan> lol
[01:42:09] <zeeshan> (needed more wire space)
[01:42:36] <Rab> No matter.
[01:42:41] <Rab> Where's the 4th fan?
[01:42:47] <zeeshan> on the door of the left case
[01:42:54] <zeeshan> right above the motherboard
[01:43:09] <zeeshan> the inlet is also on the door
[01:43:18] <Rab> Fans mounted on top of the case?
[01:43:18] <zeeshan> but overthe contactactors
[01:43:23] <zeeshan> its not the ideal thing
[01:43:23] <XXCoder> hmm how do I find out what type of rear light my van use?
[01:43:40] <zeeshan> XXCoder: what van
[01:43:46] <XXCoder> nissan quest 1996
[01:43:48] <zeeshan> its more than likely 1156
[01:43:53] <zeeshan> or 1157
[01:43:53] <Rab> XXCoder, look up the model on the Vato Zone site.,
[01:43:54] <XXCoder> aka soccer mom van
[01:44:26] <XXCoder> Rab: wow google fail
[01:44:35] <XXCoder> most talks about food lol
[01:44:37] <zeeshan> its a 1157.
[01:44:46] <XXCoder> how did you know?
[01:44:55] <Rab> http://www.autozone.com/electrical-and-lighting/tail-light-mini-bulb/nissan-datsun/quest-mini-van/1996/6-cylinders-w-3-0l-sfi?filterByKeyWord=taillight&fromString=search
[01:45:03] <Rab> zeeshan is correct.
[01:45:18] <zeeshan> XXCoder: google :D
[01:45:24] <zeeshan> most jap cars are 1156 or 1157
[01:45:29] <XXCoder> guess I used wrong words
[01:45:31] <zeeshan> both will work in the same socket
[01:45:36] <Rab> It might just have been a good guess, because 99% of vehicles use those bulbs.
[01:45:42] <zeeshan> i believe one is optimized for intermittent duty
[01:45:47] <zeeshan> the other is continuous
[01:46:14] <XXCoder> Im thinking buying led ones
[01:46:18] <XXCoder> aliexpress
[01:46:28] <zeeshan> rab you think i should swap my fans from 110v to 24VDC
[01:46:40] <zeeshan> im a bit weary about having 110V wires outside the enclosure :P
[01:47:05] <Rab> 1156 is single-filament. 1157 is dual-filament, containing both taillight and brake/turn signal. They aren't interchangeable.
[01:47:24] <zeeshan> fu
[01:47:30] <zeeshan> i plugged em in
[01:47:31] <zeeshan> they work :P
[01:47:32] <Rab> zeeshan, fans mounted on top of the case, blowing down?
[01:47:44] <zeeshan> fans are mounted bottom of case
[01:47:47] <zeeshan> blowing against gravity
[01:47:50] <zeeshan> :)
[01:48:04] <zeeshan> i figured thats a good way to get the air to mix
[01:48:06] <Rab> And with convection, which is even more important.
[01:48:07] <zeeshan> and be turbulent
[01:49:00] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-lot-1157-3020-22-SMD-P21-5W-BAY15D-Car-LED-Auto-Brake-Signal-Light-Automobile/32223245804.html
[01:49:24] <XXCoder> one thing is wtf though
[01:49:29] <XXCoder> it says beam angle 360
[01:49:33] <XXCoder> thats impossible
[01:52:25] <XXCoder> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10-pcs-1157-22-SMD-Car-LED-Brake-Turn-Light-Automobile-auto-Wedge-Lamp-Tail-Bulb/1904521442.html
[01:52:30] <XXCoder> 10 for not even 10 bucks
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[02:15:35] <XXCoder> hmm
[02:16:00] <XXCoder> zee whats this glass tube with clamp-on ends light called
[02:16:24] <XXCoder> zeeshan:
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[02:19:33] <XXCoder> oh it has 211-2 on it
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[02:50:01] <XXCoder> hey zeeshan ?
[02:50:19] <zeeshan> hi
[02:50:34] <XXCoder> is 1157 two pole type for night light and brake?
[02:50:56] <XXCoder> if so whats one pole version for single type
[02:50:57] <zeeshan> if 1157 is the dual filament one
[02:50:58] <zeeshan> then yes
[02:51:03] <zeeshan> 1156
[02:51:09] <XXCoder> simple enough lol
[02:51:12] <XXCoder> mine seems red
[02:51:58] <zeeshan> are you still looking for a LED replacement?
[02:52:57] <XXCoder> yeah already found 1157 and 211-2
[02:53:07] <XXCoder> cant find 1156 yet. trying all same seller
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[02:57:04] <XXCoder> woooooot
[02:57:05] <XXCoder> http://www.manualowl.com/am/Nissan/1996-Quest/Manual/829?page=198
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[03:20:19] <Rab> Yeah, 211-2.
[03:20:30] <XXCoder> yeah already got it in carrt
[03:20:36] <XXCoder> now trying to find best 2156
[03:20:39] <XXCoder> er 1156
[03:20:56] <zeeshan> man
[03:20:57] <zeeshan> this is annoying me
[03:21:01] <Rab> 1156 is typically for parking lights.
[03:21:05] <zeeshan> why the hell cant i find a rj11 male breakout board
[03:21:07] <zeeshan> i only see female ones
[03:21:17] <zeeshan> these 2 vfds i have are retarded
[03:21:21] <XXCoder> Rab: or in yellow for turn signal. my car uses that
[03:21:23] <zeeshan> and use stupid rj11 cables for rs485
[03:21:27] <Rab> RJ11 male?
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[03:21:38] <Rab> zeeshan, can you show me an example of a female breakout?
[03:21:39] <zeeshan> http://site.gravitech.us/MicroResearch/Breakout/RJ11-TERM/RJ11-TERM_1R.jpg
[03:21:45] <zeeshan> basically the makle version of this
[03:22:01] <Rab> Uhh...use a little male-male pigtail?
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[03:22:21] <zeeshan> ill show you what im doing
[03:22:33] <Rab> RJ11 isn't very robust, if you find one built on to a connector it wouldn't hold up to a lot of mechanical strain.
[03:22:34] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/6PAAAMXQtUxTckct/$_57.JPG
[03:22:44] <zeeshan> yea but it doesnt really take much force
[03:22:51] <zeeshan> theres only 2 dinky little 28 gauge wires going to it
[03:22:53] <XXCoder> zeeshan: what about rj45
[03:22:58] <zeeshan> wont fit in there
[03:23:07] <XXCoder> hmm guess so
[03:23:13] <Rab> It will with a wired terminal strip cantilevered off of it.
[03:23:25] <zeeshan> rab lol
[03:23:27] <zeeshan> i think itll be okay
[03:23:30] <zeeshan> ill superglue it if i have to!
[03:23:40] <XXCoder> Rab:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2pcs-lot-1156-BA15S-DC-12V-13-5050-SMD-LED-Yellow-Car-Rear-Brake-Light-Lamp/204593_2017926198.html
[03:23:44] <zeeshan> i guess the proper way would be to mount the breakout board
[03:23:47] <zeeshan> female version
[03:23:51] <zeeshan> and run a rj11 cable.. male to male
[03:23:56] <XXCoder> wonder how good its spread of light is
[03:24:35] <Rab> Or crimp a connector onto your 28ga wire.
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[03:24:53] <zeeshan> rab basically with modbus
[03:25:04] <zeeshan> i need each pin of each vfd
[03:25:06] <zeeshan> to be in parallel
[03:25:15] <zeeshan> my spindle vfd uses an onboard breakout board
[03:25:21] <zeeshan> these 2 rretarded vfds use rj11
[03:25:30] <zeeshan> so it's like i'll need to make a patch cable
[03:25:40] <Rab> Hmm, I see.
[03:25:50] <zeeshan> which is hard to do :P
[03:26:05] <Rab> Still, you could run an RJ11 cable from each VFD to a common terminal strip.
[03:26:18] <zeeshan> yes
[03:26:23] <zeeshan> hmm.
[03:26:35] <zeeshan> hey that'll work
[03:26:38] <zeeshan> i could ghetto it up a bit
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[03:26:52] <zeeshan> run rj11 cable from from each vfd to the vfd with the breakout board
[03:27:03] <zeeshan> from that breakout board to my computer
[03:27:13] <zeeshan> it'll just have 3 wiires per pin pad :P
[03:27:26] * zeeshan hates working with rj11
[03:27:31] <zeeshan> the wires are so dinky they're easy to break
[03:27:45] <zeeshan> i wish they'd make at least a 18 gauge version of it!
[03:27:58] <XXCoder> cat5 is tough
[03:28:05] <XXCoder> expecially patch cable version
[03:28:23] <XXCoder> you could just use rj11 with cat5
[03:28:27] <roycroft> if you have the proper tools 22/24ga phone wire is easy to deal with
[03:28:33] <Rab> Yeah, use cat5 and ground the unused pairs.
[03:28:46] <zeeshan> will cat5 fit in a rj11 connector?
[03:28:55] <Rab> It will. Not all the pairs.
[03:28:56] <zeeshan> the physical wire strand
[03:29:01] <roycroft> it will work fine
[03:29:02] <zeeshan> okay that'll work
[03:29:14] <roycroft> the category rating has to do with how tightly twisted the wire is
[03:29:20] <Rab> I think 3 pairs are max for RJ11.
[03:29:23] <zeeshan> is all cat5 shielded
[03:29:24] <roycroft> not the size of the wire
[03:29:30] <roycroft> no cat5 is shielded
[03:29:43] <XXCoder> cat6 is sheilded.
[03:29:54] <XXCoder> cat5e comes in both versions I think
[03:30:04] <Rab> I don't mean to be difficult, but there is shielded cat5 and typical cat6 is not shielded.
[03:30:05] <roycroft> if you're making cables that will move, use stranded cat5, not solid
[03:30:30] <zeeshan> man i could avoid all this bs if they put a proper pin pad
[03:30:33] <zeeshan> isntead of a rj11 cable
[03:30:33] <roycroft> rab: i don't think there is shielded cat5, but i'm not absolutely positive
[03:30:34] <zeeshan> :/
[03:30:50] <roycroft> there could well be twisted pair cable that is rated at cat5 that is shielded
[03:30:58] <zeeshan> i just cut an ethernet cable
[03:31:00] <zeeshan> this one is shielded
[03:31:03] <Rab> Shielding is not desireable for typical ethernet applications because the ground proximity messes with the characteristics of the differential pair.
[03:31:03] <zeeshan> cat5e
[03:31:13] <roycroft> i've never seen an ethernet cable that is shielded
[03:31:18] <roycroft> what good does the shield do?
[03:31:30] <roycroft> it's floating
[03:31:32] <roycroft> not grounded
[03:31:35] <Rab> http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/CAT5-Shielded-Twisted-Pair-Cable-STP-with-Snagless-Boots-T568B-4-Pair-RJ-45-Stranded-PVC-CMR-Riser-Gray-Custom-Lengths/EVNSL60
[03:31:37] <roycroft> so it's useless
[03:31:48] <Rab> You use special shielded connectors so it is grounded.
[03:32:06] <Rab> http://www.showmecables.com/product/Cat5e-Shielded-Connector-Solid-Cable.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=598&zmam=49733141&zmac=5&zmas=1&zmap=598&gclid=CNzCyOvEusICFcbtMgodZ3sAIg
[03:32:16] <zeeshan> secksi
[03:32:56] <roycroft> i don't care what vendors call their cable
[03:33:15] <roycroft> and i can't afford to buy a copy of tia568, so i am not going to make an absolute claim
[03:33:52] <XXCoder> I'm somewhat sure zee's rj11 jack dont have special connectors
[03:34:01] <XXCoder> so I guess it's unsheilded then
[03:34:08] <roycroft> anyone remember the dec connectors?
[03:34:17] <roycroft> i still have a very expensive crimp tool for them
[03:34:18] <XXCoder> I suppose he can replace
[03:34:25] <roycroft> they're just like rj11, but the tab is offset, not centered
[03:34:31] <roycroft> 6 conductor
[03:34:38] <Rab> It might actually be best for one side to be ungrounded, to avoid ground loops.
[03:34:44] <XXCoder> roycroft: lego mindstorms use it
[03:34:46] <roycroft> i suppose first i should ask if anyone remembers dec :)
[03:34:55] <roycroft> shielded cables should never be grounded at both ends
[03:35:15] <roycroft> for the very reason mentioned above
[03:35:19] <Rab> roycroft, I had a pile of that stuff (but no crimpers). Eventually I recycled it all.
[03:35:19] <zeeshan> http://www.metersusa.com/images/Acuvim/AcuvimCom9.JPG
[03:35:25] <zeeshan> does this thing not need a common ground
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[03:36:00] <Rab> d i g i t a l
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[03:36:16] <roycroft> i still have a vt320 that i use on a semi-regular basis
[03:36:42] <roycroft> some of my network gear does not like rs232 connections through a usb-rs232 adapter
[03:36:45] <Rab> I have a couple of vt420s...can't bring myself to recycle those.
[03:36:54] <roycroft> and laptops these days don't come with real rs232 ports
[03:37:07] <roycroft> so i lug the vt320 around when i need console access to that gear
[03:37:25] <roycroft> the vt320 is actually not that bad to schlep around
[03:37:31] <roycroft> a vt100 would be a pain in the butt
[03:37:49] <Rab> Are they green, or amber?
[03:37:51] <Jymm> My macbook has a RS-232
[03:38:01] <roycroft> yes
[03:38:02] <roycroft> :)
[03:38:08] <XXCoder> zeeshan: 10base2 ;)
[03:38:19] <roycroft> 10base5 was more fun
[03:38:28] <roycroft> cables the size of cigars
[03:38:28] <XXCoder> never used thicknet
[03:38:30] <zeeshan> i clearly need some rest :)
[03:38:32] <zeeshan> im asking some stupid qs
[03:38:34] <zeeshan> gnite! :D
[03:38:39] <XXCoder> I sure used sneakernet a lot
[03:39:04] * roycroft made some glühwein and so needs to stop operating heavy equipment for the evening
[03:39:30] <Jymm> roycroft: Think about what I said =)
[03:39:52] <roycroft> there's a lot to be said about bandwidth of a station wagon
[03:40:13] <roycroft> how old is it, jymm?
[03:40:19] <roycroft> i know the really old macbooks had rs232 ports
[03:40:24] <Jymm> roycroft: C2D
[03:40:54] <Jymm> roycroft: Apple has NEVERhad RS-232 that I am aware of
[03:43:27] <XXCoder> btw there was recent test
[03:43:35] <XXCoder> mailnet easily won
[03:44:03] <XXCoder> single box of multi-gigs flash drives arrived before network could download, and it was beefy network connection too
[03:45:50] <roycroft> but they have appletalk
[03:45:58] <roycroft> which is better than rs232, because it's proprietary!
[03:46:01] <Jymm> roycroft: Works in MS-DOS without drivers...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839328018
[03:46:47] <Jymm> roycroft: It's not made by Syba, just sold by them.
[03:46:49] <roycroft> i thought they did have rs232 ports in the olden days
[03:47:05] <Jymm> roycroft: works n my netbook too
[03:47:10] <roycroft> i might try one of those
[03:47:23] <roycroft> i have a usb-rs232 dongle that i've been using for years
[03:47:38] <roycroft> and it works with most things, but not all
[03:47:52] <roycroft> i just placed an order with newegg about 8 minutes ago
[03:47:55] <roycroft> bad timing :)
[03:48:49] <roycroft> my mbp doesn't have a pci slot though
[03:48:58] <roycroft> it has one of those narrower slots with the rounded sides
[03:49:06] <roycroft> the one that nothing fits
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[03:52:07] <XXCoder> fun standard
[04:01:41] <roycroft> yeah, i don't even remember what it's called
[04:01:50] <roycroft> "the slot of wasted real estate"
[04:01:57] <roycroft> that's all i can think about it
[04:02:02] <jdh> I have a big-box-of-serial at work. Whenever I have to get it out, things are bad.
[04:02:59] <XXCoder> omg
[04:03:17] <XXCoder> I found a way to bypass stupid no washington state aliexpress without using oregon
[04:03:38] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[04:03:52] <roycroft> aliexpress don't ship to washington?
[04:03:56] <XXCoder> nope
[04:04:03] <XXCoder> so I used waashington state
[04:04:03] <roycroft> why not?
[04:04:07] <roycroft> did amazon stop them?
[04:04:23] <XXCoder> it looks almost like washington so postal office will send it correctly anyway
[04:04:40] <renesis> post office just cares about zip
[04:04:43] <roycroft> right
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[04:05:00] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/oje4uvc
[04:05:04] <jdh> I actually made something today
[04:05:20] <roycroft> you could write "bill gates huge mansion, just outside redmond wa, 02136" and it would go to boston
[04:05:21] <renesis> seriously, why dont they?
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[04:05:42] <XXCoder> renesis: We are sorry, but due to legal restrictions, AliExpress is unable to provide escrow services to residents located in Washington State.
[04:05:46] <renesis> does washington have state tariffs or some shit?
[04:05:55] <XXCoder> good thing I like at waasington state eh ;)
[04:05:55] <roycroft> that would be unconstitutional
[04:06:04] <XXCoder> *live
[04:06:11] <renesis> i guess somehow them taking money for manufacturers is considered escrow?
[04:06:16] <renesis> tf...
[04:06:24] <roycroft> only the federal government can impose tariffis on foreign goods
[04:06:25] <XXCoder> no idea at all
[04:06:34] <renesis> roycroft: this is what i always thought
[04:06:37] <XXCoder> anyway its solved
[04:06:43] <renesis> ya
[04:06:44] <XXCoder> no more asking change oregon to washington
[04:07:09] <roycroft> there may be some state banking regulation that makes it difficult
[04:07:19] <renesis> thats what i would guess
[04:07:24] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:07:28] <renesis> like how they defined sescrow or something
[04:07:35] <renesis> *escrow
[04:07:44] <roycroft> but i suspect it really is because amazon are located in washington
[04:07:57] <XXCoder> anyway I ordered 5 different kinds of led lights for my van
[04:08:11] <XXCoder> one is bit ricious (10 for 3 bucks)
[04:08:11] <roycroft> where in washington do you live, xxcoder?
[04:08:17] <XXCoder> tacoma
[04:08:22] <roycroft> oh
[04:08:26] <roycroft> the armpit of the northwet :)
[04:08:31] <XXCoder> planning to rob my home eh
[04:08:38] <roycroft> just curios
[04:08:41] <roycroft> i live in eugene
[04:08:42] <XXCoder> or my fancy soccer mom van lol
[04:08:44] <roycroft> i used to live in bellingham
[04:09:12] <roycroft> i don't run into too many people from our part of the world on irc
[04:09:14] <renesis> tacoma isnt so bad
[04:09:24] <XXCoder> it used to be crime filled area
[04:09:31] <renesis> reminded me of the san fernando valley, close to the city, but suburban chill
[04:09:31] <XXCoder> still bit issues but mostly solved
[04:09:52] <XXCoder> also if I walk 5 miles to west I would drown in ocean
[04:09:59] <renesis> i was there like almost 10 years ago last, didnt seem so bad
[04:10:02] <roycroft> they finally put a cork in the weyerhauser mill
[04:10:02] <XXCoder> well inlet sea but still. lol
[04:10:10] <XXCoder> issue was in 90s
[04:10:12] <renesis> the sound is so fuckin clear
[04:10:16] <renesis> blew my mind
[04:10:37] <renesis> like, i was standing at the end of a dock, looked down and could see clear jellyfish like 15 feet deep
[04:10:39] <roycroft> it used to be that i could be sound asleep in the car (with someone else driving) and i would wake up when we passed through tacoma
[04:10:42] <roycroft> due to the smell
[04:10:44] <renesis> that doesnt happen in los angeles, heh
[04:10:54] <roycroft> but that mill was corked like 25 years ago now
[04:11:19] <renesis> some of the parks there are pretty cool
[04:11:31] <renesis> i really miss it there
[04:11:44] <roycroft> i loved living in bellingham
[04:12:03] <roycroft> my living room and office windows overlooked bellingham bay, which was two blocks downhill
[04:12:12] <roycroft> i did not like the cold and snow there
[04:12:20] <roycroft> which is a major reason i moved down to eugene
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[04:19:29] <taiden> evening gentlemen
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[04:20:10] <taiden> i'm thinking of switching to servo motorson my cnc router
[04:20:42] <taiden> never looked at them before, are there any goodprimers or design guides on nema23 sized servo motors, encoders, etc?
[04:22:33] <taiden> or maybe just adding feedback for my steppers...
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[04:54:41] <renesis> nema23 servo is prob cute
[04:55:00] <taiden> i'm sure of it :)
[04:55:23] <renesis> i really cant think of anytime ive seen a servo on a machine tool that small
[04:55:50] <renesis> oh actually, yeah little non machine tool xy tables
[04:56:44] <taiden> nema34 would probably befine
[05:10:51] <pfred1> you can get good performance out of steppers
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[05:33:32] <renesis> http://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/stepper/stepper-motor-item.php?sID=14&pt=i&tID=75&cID=19
[05:33:39] <renesis> anyone heard of nema24?
[05:33:56] <renesis> saw those and wondered if worth it for the taig
[05:34:47] <renesis> up to double the torque of their nema23 stuff
[05:35:10] <XXCoder> 24 hmm I have nema23s. still havent used it :P
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[06:04:40] <Connor> renesis: Stay away from those.. Inductance is terrible.
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[06:08:23] <Connor> renesis: see this:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Formulas
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[06:16:27] <pfred1> a high inductance motor will have high torque but it won't be able to run high speed
[06:16:58] <pfred1> it will have too much inductive reluctance
[06:18:12] <pfred1> the best motors have a high current, and a low voltage rating
[06:19:11] <pfred1> unless you have an application where you need high torque at a low wpeed like you are doing christmas animations
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[06:28:38] <renesis> connor: oh damn, yeah just the x axis scaling on the torque curves says a ton, 23 vs 24
[06:28:47] <renesis> you dont even really have to look at the curves, heh
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[06:49:36] <XXCoder> http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/3/0/2/347302_v1.jpg
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[06:49:43] <XXCoder> good night all
[06:49:48] <pfred1> nite
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[07:01:07] <zeeshan> pcw_home: is it an okay idea to use an e-stop switch in this config: when a standard e-stop NC switch is pressed, power will be taken away from the contactors killing power to drives etc. to tell linuxcnc it's in e-stop mode, i was thinking of using the NO contacts of the e-stop drifve a 24vdc signall to one of the input pins. what do you think?
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[07:02:31] <Connor> zeeshan: Why not just check to see if the 24v signal is gone?
[07:03:02] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong
[07:03:14] <zeeshan> but since the input pins are sinking
[07:03:29] <zeeshan> that means they need a 24vdc signal to change state right?
[07:04:17] <Connor> +24v through the NC side of estop, to the coils of the contactors AND to a 24v INPUT on the 7i77 (in parallel).
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[07:04:39] <Connor> When E-Stop is engaged, it cuts power to the contactor, and drops the power to the 7i77 pin.
[07:04:49] <Connor> thus, you see your signal state change.
[07:05:04] <Connor> in lcnc you can invert the signal if needed.
[07:05:04] <zeeshan> well i guess i need to clarify this confusion
[07:05:15] <zeeshan> it's a sinking input...
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[07:06:04] <Connor> The difference is, 7i77 requires a positive voltage, the other requires it to be grounded.
[07:06:21] <Connor> since your E-Stop will have 24v+ running through it.. not a ground.. your good.
[07:07:09] <zeeshan> okay that makes sense :)
[07:07:23] <zeeshan> im providing postive 24vdc through a limit switch then to an input pin
[07:07:29] <zeeshan> so the e-stop isnt any different
[07:07:59] <Connor> and the reason is.. you can have false inputs if you were to ground out a wire by accident via chafed wire or something.
[07:08:30] <zeeshan> i totally agree
[07:08:33] <zeeshan> i was thinking of it wrong
[07:08:34] <Connor> Correct, no diff between the limit and estop setup.
[07:09:12] <zeeshan> im counting the 24vdc signal requirements
[07:09:13] <Connor> and them being setup in a NC state insures that if a wire breaks.. your estop will bill tripped, or limit will be tripped thus, making it "fail safe"
[07:09:34] <zeeshan> im counting 17 pins!
[07:09:38] <zeeshan> er
[07:09:42] <zeeshan> 17 +24vdc signals
[07:09:48] <zeeshan> going to need a buncha terminal blocks
[07:10:00] <zeeshan> im looking at the dn-qd12x-a on automation direct
[07:10:09] <zeeshan> in .2" of din rail space
[07:10:12] <zeeshan> it gives you 4 pins
[07:10:19] <zeeshan> i only have 2" of space to spare
[07:10:34] <zeeshan> plenty of space :)
[07:10:55] <Connor> Hmm.. that's a 2 tier setup.
[07:11:36] <zeeshan> the way im imagining it is
[07:11:48] <zeeshan> 24vdc supply -> din rail term block -> each limit switch, solenoid, sensor , etc
[07:12:07] <zeeshan> then the return wires from each switch for example will go to the associated input on 7i77
[07:12:17] <zeeshan> for a solenoid it'd be a bit different
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[07:12:27] <zeeshan> it'd go back to the -24vdc rail
[07:12:39] <Connor> and from 7i77 output.
[07:12:44] <Connor> http://www.galco.com/buy/Wieland/57.403.7055.0
[07:12:49] <zeeshan> my solenoid for the hydraulic tool changer
[07:12:52] <Connor> I used those for my 48v buss
[07:12:55] <zeeshan> i've decided won't go to 7i77
[07:13:00] <zeeshan> there is too high chance of a accidental trip
[07:13:03] <zeeshan> im wiring it to a direct switch
[07:13:15] <Connor> ok
[07:13:17] <zeeshan> the 7i77 will be inline to monitor things like "is the spindle running"
[07:13:25] <zeeshan> with a relay latching that solenoid
[07:13:51] <zeeshan> have you tried the screwless term blocks?
[07:13:57] <zeeshan> ive only used screw.
[07:14:07] <Connor> No.
[07:14:44] <Connor> so, using the 7i77 as a interlock.
[07:14:48] <zeeshan> yes
[07:15:43] <zeeshan> +24vdc -> relay switch side controled by 7i77 -> momentary switch -> -24vdc
[07:16:02] <zeeshan> last thing i want is a tool flying out at 3000 rpm
[07:16:23] <Connor> I'm kinda stalled out right now.
[07:16:27] <zeeshan> why
[07:16:28] <Connor> can't do anything.
[07:17:02] <Connor> Well.. I need Pete's help to machine some stuff on the Base and saddles of the G0704, and finish making one of my ballnut mounts.
[07:17:24] <Connor> and.. I found out that my house has really bad white mold issue.. along with some plumping issues
[07:17:31] <pfred1> I was kinda stalled out today myself
[07:17:51] <Connor> Probably going to be after the first of the year before I can do anything.
[07:18:09] <zeeshan> don't stress
[07:18:16] <zeeshan> i took a break from this cnc stuff for a couple weeks
[07:18:19] <zeeshan> just getting back into it
[07:18:28] <pfred1> heck I've taken years off
[07:18:30] <zeeshan> its nice to have a break :)
[07:19:02] <Connor> CNC stuff is my stress reliever
[07:19:03] <pfred1> it would be nice to have my machine running again before Christmas but I donot know if that is going to happen, or not
[07:19:27] <zeeshan> connor can you dehumidy?
[07:19:30] <zeeshan> and kill the white mold like that?
[07:19:34] <pfred1> yeah if I'm not in the mood i don't mess with it
[07:19:43] <Connor> Going to have to take out a Home Equity Line of Credit to get the $$$ to help cover the cost of repairs.
[07:19:47] <zeeshan> pfred1: what kind of machine do you have
[07:19:53] <pfred1> I get green mold that gorw on the outside of my house
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[07:20:12] <pfred1> well technically right now I guess I don't have anything at all but usually a router
[07:20:19] <Connor> zeeshan: It's going to take a professional cleaning company to remove it. Repair some major wood fungas and wood rotted floor joists..
[07:20:28] <zeeshan> =/
[07:20:33] <pfred1> I kill my mold with bleach and jomax house wash
[07:20:35] <Connor> and then we need to enclose the craw space and stuff to keep it from happening again.
[07:20:54] <zeeshan> i have some black mold in the washroom
[07:20:54] <pfred1> I'd have to move my house to prevent mold from growing on it
[07:20:54] <Swapper> would it be even manageble to put linear rails on a RF45 style z column ?
[07:20:57] <zeeshan> only place w/ mold
[07:20:58] <Connor> also need to have the duct work cleaned and flex duct replaced.
[07:21:00] <zeeshan> ftoo much humidity
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[07:21:16] <pfred1> bah germcidal bleach kills the stuff
[07:21:21] <Connor> zeeshan: Yea.. I live in Tennessee..
[07:21:40] <zeeshan> this is why we need concrete block houses
[07:21:43] <zeeshan> :)
[07:21:46] <pfred1> you can watch the mold change colors as it dies its fun
[07:21:52] <zeeshan> pfred1: is it instant?
[07:21:59] <Connor> and keep the house around 67.. which causes the ducts to condensate..
[07:22:02] <pfred1> well it happens right before your eyes
[07:22:14] <pfred1> it don't take long
[07:22:20] <zeeshan> pfred1: i have like a 2" spot (circle) where the mold is confined on the wall
[07:22:27] <pfred1> I use one of them spray pump bottles to spray it
[07:22:27] <zeeshan> do you think it goes into the dry wall too
[07:22:28] <Connor> pfred1: Insurance should cover Mold removal, just not the damage.
[07:22:31] <zeeshan> or would it be only on the surface
[07:22:33] <zeeshan> so it can breathe
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[07:23:30] <pfred1> I live in delaware and mold gorws on the outside of lots of houses here
[07:23:39] <pfred1> it seems to favor some colors more than others
[07:23:52] <pfred1> it likes the color my house is
[07:23:59] <Connor> Only GOOD thing that might come from this is ability for me to enlarge my workshop and maybe buy a 10x22 lathe...
[07:25:01] <pfred1> then once i kill it with bleach and house wash I pressure wash it off
[07:26:22] <pfred1> before it dies the stuff really clings
[07:26:37] <pfred1> but once its dead it washes off more easily
[07:27:34] <Connor> They're going to soda blast it out.. and then treat it with chemcials
[07:27:47] <pfred1> hmm i say treat first
[07:28:06] <pfred1> kill it in place
[07:28:20] <Connor> I say, let them do it. I'm not professional, and insurance is covering the removal.
[07:28:27] <pfred1> cool
[07:28:44] <pfred1> insurance doesn't pay me to wash my house I should see if they would
[07:28:47] <Connor> but, I have to foot the bill for deductible, and repair
[07:28:47] <zeeshan> is it ONLY on the surface??
[07:29:02] <Connor> zeeshan: In My case? Probably not.
[07:29:11] <Connor> some of it has damaged the floor joist.
[07:29:36] <pfred1> if it is just dry rot you can fix that
[07:29:55] <Connor> It's not.
[07:29:59] <pfred1> oh
[07:30:21] <Connor> Wood eating Fungus possibly.
[07:30:27] <Connor> I'll no more in the next few days.
[07:30:28] <pfred1> I've taken wood that was like a sponge and made it sound again with wood hardener
[07:30:34] <Connor> err.. I'll know more.
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[07:30:55] <roycroft> insurance should not pay you to wash your house
[07:31:00] <roycroft> that's why you breed
[07:31:07] <pfred1> wood hardener is sort of like thinned out fiberglass resin it soakes into the wood and makes it really sturdy
[07:31:44] <zeeshan> hkm
[07:31:51] <zeeshan> apparently vinegar is an alternative to toxic bleach
[07:31:52] <zeeshan> :P
[07:32:07] <pfred1> bleach isn't toxic to me in small amounts
[07:32:15] <pfred1> it messes mold up though
[07:32:45] <pfred1> heck we treat city water with bleach and drink it
[07:32:55] <pfred1> chlorine is bleach
[07:32:56] <Connor> I'm hoping that fixing this helps with my wife's health issues.
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[07:34:25] <Connor> time for bed. later guys
[07:34:29] <pfred1> somefolks are really allergic to mold
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[07:35:51] <roycroft> i'm pretty sensitive to mold and mildew
[07:36:05] <roycroft> to most smells, actually
[07:36:16] <roycroft> i'm extremely sensitive to cigarette smoke
[07:36:50] <pfred1> some smells bother me
[07:37:30] <pfred1> we were roofing Hartx Mountain and they make hampster food there
[07:37:48] <pfred1> let me tell you the smell of roasting hampster food is nothing I care for
[07:38:24] <pfred1> guy running the machine was eating his lunch operating it though I guess folks get used to anything after a while
[07:38:59] <pfred1> we were getting bowled over by the stench out on the roof just because it was wafting out of a couple broken windows at us
[07:39:40] <pfred1> but in the middle of the day our extension cord came unplugged so we had to go back into that room to plug it back in
[07:39:49] <pfred1> only one guy made it
[07:40:06] <pfred1> when he came out he said he had dogs so he was used to pet food odors
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[07:40:36] <pfred1> guy must have been living on dog food to have put up with that stink
[07:40:51] <pfred1> it was nasty!
[07:41:32] <pfred1> hampster food is green before they roast it then it turns brown
[07:46:06] <roycroft> soylent green is raw hampster food!
[07:46:40] <pfred1> yeah could be
[07:46:40] <Jymm> soylent green is people!!!
[07:47:11] <pfred1> there was this pivoting arm that dropped the pellets onto this other machine that looks like a burger roaster out of burger king
[07:47:44] <pfred1> then this ugly fat slob that just sat there and watched it all day long
[07:48:10] <pfred1> I didn't see him do anything other than eat his lunch he didn't evne get up to do that
[07:48:35] <ReadError> wood hardener is pretty cool
[07:48:41] <ReadError> the solvents they use are pretty strong
[07:54:16] <pfred1> yeah a carptender on a job turned me onto it and it works
[07:54:41] <pfred1> use the whole bottle when you open it though because it don't keep
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[08:04:25] <Deejay> moin
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[08:14:01] <Swapper> morning
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[08:28:25] <Valen> I want to get swell lock for wood
[08:28:32] <Valen> gotta put an axe head onto a handle
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[08:28:49] <Valen> bleach can be used to sterilise water in a pinch btw
[08:30:42] <roycroft> well, sanitize it
[08:30:57] <Valen> btw Connor anti mould paint actually works pretty well
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[08:31:01] <roycroft> to sterilize it would require so much bleach it the water would be non-potable again
[08:31:37] <Valen> our bathroom used to get pretty festy, (on wallpaper with no ventilation), I painted it with some anti-mould bathroom paint, just a quicky and it hasn't come back
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[08:32:23] <Valen> I'm wearing my mould killing shirt at the moment lol, its dark blue with bright purple dribbles on it where bleach dripped onto it from spraying it around the walls and roof
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[08:58:16] <pfred1> I ruined a pair of sweat pants when I disinfected my garden pond
[08:58:22] <pfred1> I really went nuts with the bleach
[08:58:53] <pfred1> some lady gave me these water plants for it and attached was this other alge and that stuff took off
[08:59:19] <pfred1> so I drained the whole pond and hosed it down wiht bleach
[08:59:38] <pfred1> I had my doubts but that took that alge out
[08:59:40] <Valen> I need to do that to my fish tank
[08:59:47] <Valen> bleach is great stuff ;->
[09:00:01] <pfred1> I went nuts I wanted it to work
[09:00:08] <pfred1> I hated that alge
[09:00:23] <Valen> +1 for my fish tank ;->
[09:00:25] <pfred1> I spent a whole supper with a sieve trying to strain it out
[09:00:32] <pfred1> summer even
[09:00:38] <Valen> I killed off one type but the other survived
[09:01:11] <pfred1> I'd almost get all of it but a little bit would escape and then one warm day blammo it'd be all over the place again
[09:02:28] <pfred1> I've completely given up on water gardening that is a lot harder than it looks
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[14:45:59] <mutley> afternoon
[14:46:22] <mutley> wondering if i can get some useful advice regardin machining plastics and the correct bits
[14:46:32] <mutley> essentially nylon
[14:46:50] <mutley> i get too much "melt" going on
[14:47:08] <mutley> using a kress spindle with a minimmum speed of 10k rpm
[14:47:29] <mutley> its been sggested i use a fast spiral cutter, carbide alumnium cutter possibly
[14:47:30] <skunkworks> go faster? coolant?
[14:47:41] <mutley> using coolant
[14:47:49] <skunkworks> *feed
[14:47:52] <mutley> faster as in feedspeed, or spdle speed?
[14:48:09] <mutley> wow realy
[14:49:16] <mutley> anyone have a good source of cutters in the uk
[14:49:45] <mutley> cutters/mill bits
[14:49:45] <PetefromTn_> what cutter are you using now?
[14:50:16] <mutley> twin flute standard helix angle around 30 degrees
[14:50:43] <PetefromTn_> you might try a single flute higher helix model and ramp up your feedrates
[14:50:48] <mutley> i spoke with an "old boy" type machnist, he suggested i need to lower spindle speed, and use a fast helix cutter
[14:51:02] <mutley> ie closer to 45 degree helix
[14:51:09] <PetefromTn_> I thought you were already going as slow as possible..
[14:51:25] <PetefromTn_> spindle speed that is
[14:51:36] <mutley> yea i been finding single flute not easy to obtain for some reason in the uk, maybe i look in the wrong places
[14:51:47] <mutley> PetefromTn_: yea as slow as my spindle will allow
[14:51:49] <PetefromTn_> try ebay
[14:52:02] <mutley> i am considering getting another spindle that will go lower
[14:52:04] <mutley> slower*
[14:52:06] <PetefromTn_> what are your feeds and speeds
[14:52:46] <PetefromTn_> basically if it is melting you are going too slow really and your spindle speed is too fast but you cannot lower it so you need to feed faster
[14:54:57] <mutley> mmmm
[14:55:16] <mutley> yea i may look at a slower spindle then aswell, any suggestin for such an item?
[14:55:27] <mutley> curently got a kress 1050 multi speed
[14:55:31] <mutley> 10-40k
[14:56:11] <mutley> my feedspeeds have ranged from150 -500
[14:56:16] <PetefromTn_> I assume this is a small table top router then?
[14:56:56] <mutley> well, its not one of those large industrial types, but its not quite table top
[14:57:19] <mutley> its a home brew, but made out of 40x80 and 40x120 extrusions, linear rails and ball screws
[14:57:24] <mutley> nema23 motors
[14:58:04] <mutley> and a proven control system that i darent mention (planet coughcoughcnc cough) that works well
[14:58:23] <mutley> its just this melt issue im trying to combat,
[14:59:35] <PetefromTn_> is that 500mm per minute or inches or what?
[14:59:47] <mutley> otherwise its a pretty stable solid machine
[14:59:51] <mutley> mmpm
[15:00:02] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is what like 20IPM?
[15:00:28] * mutley fumbles for a calculator
[15:00:35] <PetefromTn_> that is pretty slow really
[15:00:51] <PetefromTn_> what are your depths of cut and engagement?
[15:00:55] <PetefromTn_> slotting?
[15:01:08] <mutley> yea 20 inches per minnute
[15:01:10] <PetefromTn_> you just need to try to feed faster I think from what it sounds like
[15:01:27] <mutley> mmmm ok
[15:01:31] <PetefromTn_> either that or get a spindle that runs in the less than 10k range
[15:01:47] <mutley> i tend to take of 1mm at a time
[15:01:56] <mutley> the first few cuts are fine
[15:02:09] <mutley> its as i start to get deeper it then has problems
[15:02:28] <PetefromTn_> are you clearing chips well?
[15:02:35] <PetefromTn_> use some compressed air maybe
[15:02:45] <mutley> PetefromTn_: yea well i think possibly in a roundabout way your confirm some of what i was thinking and also what the old boy machnist was saying
[15:02:54] <mutley> yea i use air
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[15:03:01] <PetefromTn_> but I would look into a quality single flute cutter and up that feedrate
[15:03:09] <mutley> ive even used a water spray aswell
[15:03:19] <PetefromTn_> water?
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[15:03:35] <mutley> yea to try and help cool the tip
[15:03:43] <mutley> take some of the heat away,
[15:03:43] <PetefromTn_> you might try a mister with coolant if your machine is not all MDF or something.
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[15:03:55] <mutley> yea its all metal
[15:03:58] <mutley> no wood
[15:04:31] <mutley> ok well i ight have to ammend my letter to santa then
[15:05:29] <PetefromTn_> you should check out a feed and speed calculator there are several free ones available
[15:06:26] <PetefromTn_> there is one called FZwizard that seems decent
[15:06:40] <PetefromTn_> or rather FS wizard
[15:07:46] <mutley> ok
[15:08:16] <PetefromTn_> full slot with guessing a quarter inch cutter you should be around 140 IPM at 10k rpm two flute it seems
[15:08:26] <mutley> in all honesty i think im part at fault for looking at doing some of this work half hearted/taking short cut
[15:08:30] <mutley> or not planning the work well enough
[15:08:41] <mutley> wow
[15:08:50] <mutley> almost sounds extreme to me
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[15:09:10] <mutley> theres me going by the "gently does it" apprach
[15:09:11] <PetefromTn_> well watch some youtube videos of these smaller table top machines cutting plastics
[15:09:18] <mutley> rather than hell for leather
[15:09:46] <PetefromTn_> most of them are relatively not rigid so they cut shallow and fast
[15:11:08] <mutley> mmm interesting, makes sense
[15:11:10] <PetefromTn_> high speed and low speed will burn any cutter and you are heating up the material and cutter. Will burn it up and it will loose its edge quickly that way causing more burning and melting
[15:11:22] <PetefromTn_> low feed rather
[15:12:16] <PetefromTn_> but if there is a lot of backlash and play in the machine then all bets are off.....
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[15:24:34] <mutley> enter the vicious crcle
[15:25:05] <mutley> my machine is pretty rigid and no backlash/very low
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[15:38:42] <mutley> PetefromTn_: really appreciate your advice, many thanks, ill pop back and let you know how i gt along in a few days
[15:38:47] <mutley> skunkworks: you too :)
[15:39:01] <PetefromTn_> sure good luck man
[15:40:35] <mutley> cheers :)
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[15:48:33] <archivist> nobody mentions effin sharp cutters too else rubbing causes heat rise
[15:51:14] <malcom2073> I've always heard that from my dad, for plastics you have to have a really sharp cutter
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[15:53:07] <archivist> and then the part you are rubbing against start to expand and make the problem worse, dont ask me how I know :)
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[15:56:42] <skunkworks> You should have sharp cutters cutting plastic
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[16:01:18] <PetefromTn_> you should have sharp cutters cutting almost anything so it goes without saying I figured
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[16:12:38] <roycroft> if you can't find a single flute cutter that you like you can take a two flute cutter and grind one of the flutes down a little bit
[16:12:48] <roycroft> a few thousandths is enough to turn it into a single flute cutter
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[16:17:35] <skunkworks> it is harder or impossible to get a carbide as sharp as a hhs cutter
[16:17:40] <skunkworks> HSS
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[16:27:26] <SpeedEvil> Won't careful diamond polishing get it as sharp?
[16:27:37] <SpeedEvil> Life when that sharp is another question of course
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[16:30:28] <pcw_home> I suspect for plastic you want sharp and a narrow angle, something that carbide does not do well
[16:30:59] <pcw_home> (too brittle)
[16:33:02] <CaptHindsight> but polymers won't have the same force required as metals, so lower shock waves
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[16:36:22] <pcw_home> sort of like a block plane, carbide is not a good choice
[16:37:58] <CaptHindsight> themosets and themoplastics will behave very differently during cutting
[16:38:25] <CaptHindsight> thermosets won't melt whereas themoplastics will melt
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[16:41:53] <CaptHindsight> that another difference between cast vs extruded acrylic panels (somebody asked about it recently)
[16:42:23] <CaptHindsight> cast is thermoset, extruded is a themoplastic version
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[16:55:44] <SpeedEvil> I've been wondering about thermoset resins since I saw how cheap fibreglass was
[16:55:48] <SpeedEvil> that is - the glass fibre
[16:56:02] <SpeedEvil> I can buy a 17kg roll for 35 pounds, shipped.
[16:56:23] <SpeedEvil> And pulltrusion seems like fun
[16:56:52] <SpeedEvil> 110 ton-meters per pound.
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[17:05:22] <CaptHindsight> structural pultrusions are typically expoxy and fiberglass with clay
[17:05:44] <CaptHindsight> expoxy/epoxy
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[17:08:45] <SpeedEvil> clay?
[17:08:56] <SpeedEvil> you mean the clay as an additional filer?
[17:09:04] <SpeedEvil> makes sense I guess
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[17:12:51] <CaptHindsight> clay as a filler
[17:13:13] <CaptHindsight> same as body filler (Bondo)
[17:14:01] * SpeedEvil idly wonders if you can fire fibreglass+clay and get a functioning ceramic.
[17:14:11] <SpeedEvil> I suspect the answer is it's pointless and the fibres melt
[17:14:17] <CaptHindsight> Bondo = unsaturated polyester + clay + talc, just add fiberglass to make a pultrusion
[17:14:17] <SpeedEvil> (for normal e-glass anyway)
[17:14:46] <SpeedEvil> How doesn't it stick to the extruder?
[17:15:00] <SpeedEvil> Do you coat it with a PTFE or wax film or something?
[17:15:10] <CaptHindsight> thin with an active solvent, IBOA, TPGDA etc
[17:15:33] <SpeedEvil> you mean injected around the extruder?
[17:15:48] <SpeedEvil> Is there an 'idiots guide to pulltrusion' online anywhere?
[17:16:10] <CaptHindsight> the extruder is under pressure and you clean it out before it sets
[17:16:11] <SpeedEvil> Filliment winding seems very straightforward
[17:16:28] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: I thought it basically set in the extruder at extremely elevated temperature
[17:16:36] <SpeedEvil> ah
[17:17:03] <CaptHindsight> I haven't seen one but I know they lease the pultrusion equipment. It might be patent encumbered
[17:17:10] <SpeedEvil> Doubtful
[17:17:20] <SpeedEvil> (any more anyway)
[17:17:23] <SpeedEvil> But good point
[17:18:02] <SpeedEvil> Gah
[17:18:09] <SpeedEvil> How did I fail to look at wikipedia
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[17:19:30] <jdh> you didn't want to pay $3
[17:19:40] <jdh> and be reminded that you should pay $3 or wtf
[17:21:07] <SpeedEvil> I blame alcohol.
[17:21:18] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure why, as I don't drink though.
[17:21:55] <CaptHindsight> drugs and alcohol have been used as scapegoats for decades
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[18:23:12] <anonimasu> anyone have a clue what to do when you use bldc and you got abs(commutation angle) and also, incremental in the same time
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[18:52:19] <Deejay> re
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[19:50:20] <anonimasu> PCW: are you there?
[19:55:34] <PCW> Yeah but busy
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[19:56:57] <anonimasu> I had a quick question what do I do with the absolute value for the 8i20 after
[19:57:12] <anonimasu> reading it from the encoder
[19:57:35] <anonimasu> to initialize the angle for commitation
[19:58:57] <anonimasu> PCW: I am a bit stuck on that part :)
[19:59:08] <anonimasu> everything else is hooked up(today)
[20:01:42] <PCW> The actual absolute angle you get from your encoders relative to what the 8I20 needs really needs to be determined by experiment
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[20:03:16] <anonimasu> yeah, but what pin do i write it to
[20:04:04] <anonimasu> 8i20.0.0.angle?
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[20:27:43] <anonimasu> or motor.
[20:27:54] <anonimasu> (I cant find a sample config of that :S
[20:34:21] <jdh> what is the biggest size bolt (.us) would you thread into the side of 0.25" 6061 plate?
[20:35:35] <zeeshan> usually the rule of thumb is
[20:35:57] <zeeshan> at least the diameter of the bolt of meat between the edge of the hole and the plate
[20:36:04] <zeeshan> because of the way the frustra distributes
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[20:36:34] <zeeshan> http://www.roymech.co.uk/images/screw_17.gif
[20:37:39] <zeeshan> i meant to say 1/2 the bolt diameter
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[20:38:46] <zeeshan> looks like 8-32 would work.
[20:45:44] <PCW> anonimasu: bldc.N.encoder-offset I believe
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[20:47:45] <jdh> 8-32's are pretty much high on my list of 'taps-I-have-broken-off'
[20:48:05] <SpeedEvil> 6061? Why tap.
[20:48:25] <SpeedEvil> Sort-of-serious
[20:49:44] <jdh> vs?
[20:50:14] <SpeedEvil> drilling the appropriately sized hole, and then firmly screwing
[20:50:45] <SpeedEvil> Depends on the app of course
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[20:52:40] <jdh> this is a mounting bracket for a camera.
[20:53:03] <jdh> the part being bolted to it will be slotted for height adjustment
[20:53:07] <SpeedEvil> probably not appropriate then - they can go in a little skew in some cases
[20:53:23] <SpeedEvil> It worked surprisingly well when I tried it though
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[20:59:46] <PCW> Ha neon lights counting up on the Cinncinatti Millicron ACO module and WD fed
[20:59:48] <PCW> Now if I can figure out how to read the inputs...
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[21:08:20] <tjb1> Does anyone know what happens to a wave sping when its compressed, does the OD get bigger?
[21:11:34] <_methods> hmm
[21:11:37] <_methods> good question
[21:13:47] <_methods> i dont' think so but i think it depends on the type of wavespring
[21:14:10] <tjb1> http://www.mcmaster.com/#9714k75/=uytbpt
[21:14:12] <_methods> usually they're made to fit in a cavity
[21:14:42] <tjb1> Looking at that guy, unfortunately I can't really find anything similar with a higher weight. One thing I did read talked about stacking these in the past to raise the working load though.
[21:15:02] <_methods> yeah i dont' think tthat the dia should change on that
[21:15:13] <_methods> some of the clipped wave springs might though
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[21:15:25] <_methods> they sell stacked wave springs
[21:15:57] <_methods> i guess mcmaster calls them high load compression springs
[21:16:11] <tjb1> I'd like something close to those diameters or something around 1.8 ID and under 2.75 OD with around 100-120lbs
[21:16:11] <_methods> http://www.mcmaster.com/#wave-springs/=uytcg8
[21:16:39] <tjb1> I can't find the size I need in that style
[21:16:59] <_methods> yeah you might have to get them from somebody besides mcmaster
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[21:22:18] <tjb1> Might have to just try stacking the McMaster ones, not finding much else
[21:25:04] <zeeshan> im thinking stacking them might reduce their springiness
[21:25:16] <zeeshan> if you have wave washer , flat washer , wave washer
[21:25:18] <zeeshan> you might be ok :P
[21:25:25] <zeeshan> but if you stack like 10 of those wave washers
[21:25:26] <tjb1> thats an idea
[21:25:30] <zeeshan> i'm not sure what would happen
[21:25:47] <tjb1> spot weld them together at matching peaks
[21:26:06] <zeeshan> welding a spring is not good usually!
[21:26:12] <zeeshan> spot for them to crack
[21:26:16] <zeeshan> im not sure what your application is :)
[21:26:38] <zeeshan> the only place i've seen those wave washers is in the reverse gear
[21:26:40] <zeeshan> of my transmission
[21:27:11] <zeeshan> do you have to use a wave washer?
[21:27:14] <zeeshan> can you use a belleville?
[21:27:25] <tjb1> I'd like 100-120lbs
[21:27:33] <tjb1> Haven't seen a belleville that low
[21:27:42] <tjb1> with ID greater than 1.75
[21:28:20] <zeeshan> what id
[21:28:55] <zeeshan> http://www.mcmaster.com/#belleville-disc-springs/=uytikc
[21:29:22] <tjb1> http://www.smalley.com/wave-spring/ssr-0212
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[21:30:53] <tjb1> So the spring is at least possible
[21:36:43] <anonimasu> PCW: I dont have counts I have rotor angle
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[21:37:29] <PCW> well you will need convert
[21:37:36] <PCW> to convert
[21:38:16] <anonimasu> this is the absolute encoders
[21:38:24] <anonimasu> (hiperface)
[21:38:40] <anonimasu> I thought you could just feed electrical angle into something
[21:39:10] <anonimasu> like to the 8i20's
[21:40:48] <PCW> You can but you woudl have to create that number from the original angle and mod encoder count
[21:41:18] <anonimasu> well encoder counut is always zero on start
[21:41:52] <anonimasu> count...(which is the only time I dont have position
[21:42:20] <anonimasu> the encoder feedback is always active when power is on
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[21:47:36] <PCW> sure but BLDC needs an absolute angle (which you would have to synthesize in HAL with mod encoder count and your original absolute number)
[21:47:38] <PCW> or encoder count and the original offset which suggests thar using bldc.N.encoder-offset is easier
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[21:48:14] <anonimasu> what about rotor-angle? for the bldc component
[21:49:35] <anonimasu> sorry it's a out
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[21:52:32] <anonimasu> pcw: encoder offset would be =Abs_Angle*Counts/rev
[21:52:42] <anonimasu> where abs_angle is between 0-1
[21:53:04] <anonimasu> pretty much
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[21:55:50] <anonimasu> and the offset
[21:56:06] <anonimasu> does that seem like how it's done or tell me if im off completely
[21:56:13] <anonimasu> bbl
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[22:17:46] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15804865298/
[22:17:49] <zeeshan> those box connectors dont look too bad
[22:18:14] <zeeshan> i wish i could somehow take my psu apart
[22:18:18] <zeeshan> and remove all those extra wires
[22:18:22] <zeeshan> without resoldering
[22:18:27] <zeeshan> damn these nonmodular supplies
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[22:21:20] <Connor> zeeshan: No, That doesn't look too bad.
[22:22:32] <Connor> 1 thing you could do to get more room.. would be turn the 7i77 on the edge.. or mount it to the wall on the right hand side
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[22:23:46] <zeeshan> i agree
[22:23:54] <zeeshan> i honestly didnt account for space usage
[22:24:02] <zeeshan> i was just trying to make it the most easiest to access
[22:24:12] <zeeshan> modifying stuff on the lathe controller is a pain in the butt cause its all packed
[22:24:44] <zeeshan> the goal is to mount this cabinet stuff on the wall beside the mill
[22:25:04] <Deejay> gn8
[22:25:18] <zeeshan> connor think double sided tape is good enough for mounting a ssd drive? :)
[22:25:25] <zeeshan> i forgot to drill holes for it :-(
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[22:25:52] <Connor> zeeshan: Yes. That's how mine is right now. :)
[22:26:01] <zeeshan> haha nice
[22:26:10] <zeeshan> are you using the 3m double sided tape?
[22:26:15] <Connor> I also had to repair the SATA connector on min..
[22:26:17] <Connor> Yea.
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[22:26:48] <Connor> The plastic center broke on the SSD during my re-working of the enclosure.
[22:27:18] <zeeshan> doh
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[22:27:29] <Connor> wife had some nail glue that you use with a brush.. I.E. Polyvinyl acetate I.E. super glue.
[22:27:56] <Connor> put some on the bottom edge of the plastic and held it in place and let it setup.. looks to be working good..
[22:28:11] <Connor> That PSU for the computer.. that ONLY for the computer?
[22:29:01] * JT-Shop just dragged home a 3/4" steel table... dunno where I'm going to put the damn thing
[22:29:11] <zeeshan> connor yes
[22:29:16] <zeeshan> and one case fan
[22:29:26] <zeeshan> i figure i should put a 12v fan on there
[22:29:29] <zeeshan> and make use of the power :)
[22:29:53] <Connor> How many watts do you need for the computer ?
[22:30:04] <Tom_L> JT-Shop how big is it?
[22:30:09] <zeeshan> connor no idea :)
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[22:30:18] <Connor> might look at these..
http://www.logicsupply.com/components/power-supplies/picopsu/
[22:30:32] <Connor> you could remove that huge PSU and condense down to one of those.
[22:30:48] <zeeshan> i think the athlon xp 3200+
[22:30:52] <zeeshan> eats at least 200W :P
[22:30:56] <zeeshan> i'm not 100% sure
[22:31:09] <Connor> Oh. Then those won't work. 160W is the largest I think.
[22:31:11] <zeeshan> ive always done the "throw in a big supply there and hope it works method"
[22:31:27] <Connor> Graphics card is what eats up allot of the PSU
[22:31:33] <JT-Shop> 32" x 48"
[22:31:45] <Tom_L> nice
[22:31:50] <zeeshan> how much JT-Shop?
[22:31:57] <Tom_L> mine's about the same size but 1/2" plate
[22:32:11] <Tom_L> i wouldn't sell it for anything
[22:32:23] <zeeshan> i built mine
[22:32:25] <zeeshan> it was a pain in the ass :)
[22:32:34] <zeeshan> i had to build it upside down
[22:33:05] <_methods> i just use my tablesaw table lol
[22:33:11] <_methods> old tannewitz
[22:33:27] <JT-Shop> I think it is about 400
[22:33:59] <JT-Shop> I have a 48 x 48 x 1 table that came off a machine
[22:34:06] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/framewelded2.jpg
[22:34:37] <zeeshan> i dont remember how big it is
[22:34:42] <zeeshan> 5x3.5?
[22:35:10] <zeeshan> 1" holy cow
[22:35:12] <Connor> My workbench.
http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/shop/559.JPG
[22:35:14] <zeeshan> that prolly weighs 1300lb
[22:35:15] <zeeshan> :)
[22:35:20] <zeeshan> connor yours is the best
[22:35:24] <zeeshan> its stainless too!
[22:35:32] <renesis> athlon xp 3200+ was like 80w
[22:35:35] <renesis> had one of those
[22:35:39] <renesis> almost everyone did, heh
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[22:35:45] <zeeshan> overclocking heaven
[22:35:56] <zeeshan> amd made some shit processors
[22:35:59] <renesis> was when intel had their head up their ass and no one gave a shit about power
[22:35:59] <zeeshan> they always ran so hot
[22:35:59] <JT-Shop> where is the bench?
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[22:36:33] <Connor> Stainless elevator door.. + I-Beam construction.. Was a Bomb rack for Airforce for 500lbs bombs. :)
[22:37:08] <_methods> your table IS the bomb
[22:37:36] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_02.JPG
[22:37:38] <_methods> holder
[22:37:57] <Connor> in that picture you can see in the lower portion of the screen the caster wheel and some of the I-beam structure.
[22:38:28] <Connor> next to the jug of coolant and the AC wire.
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[22:48:59] <mrsun> happy to see its not only my bench that looks like that! =)
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[22:55:21] <Connor> mrsun: That was several months ago. It got cleaned up a bit when i moved the mill onto the stand.. but, now, it's a bit messy again because the mill is torn apart.
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[22:58:30] <mrsun> been there, done that =)
[23:04:50] * JT-Shop needs to quit dragging shit home... shop too full
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[23:12:52] <Jymm> JT-Shop: Cargo containers are fairly cheao
[23:13:20] <Jymm> JT-Shop: and can be stacked!!!
[23:15:48] <JT-Shop> gotta have some flat ground and live in a sea port
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[23:16:16] <JT-Shop> you don't see cargo containers in the woods of swamp east missouri
[23:16:22] <Jymm> Nope, they can be trasnported by truck anywhere
[23:16:48] <JT-Shop> yep you still need a place to put them
[23:16:56] <Jymm> You have a tractor, I'm sue you can MAKE flat land
[23:16:59] <Jymm> sure*
[23:17:08] <JT-Shop> I don't want to store things but have them where I can use them
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[23:17:29] <Jymm> Then stop bringing more shit home =)
[23:17:41] <JT-Shop> and yea I can fire up the dozer and make it all flat I guess... the neighbors might complain if there place slides down the hill LOL
[23:17:56] <JT-Shop> their
[23:18:03] <Jymm> Underground container/bunker?
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[23:18:18] <JT-Shop> your not supposed to know about that
[23:18:33] <Jymm> about what? ~grin~
[23:22:56] <Jymm> JT-Shop: where did you get your cannon powder from?
[23:25:16] <JT-Shop> Dixie Gun Works
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[23:27:22] <Jymm> JT-Shop: I dont see powder
[23:30:00] <JT-Shop> they probably don't ship it
[23:30:26] <Jymm> I would think they would at least list it
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[23:32:41] <andypugh> Oh my! Dixie Gun Works sells Gatling Guns. I rather suspect I wouldn’t be allowed one in the UK :-)
[23:39:19] <Jymm> andypugh: Make one, say it's a tool changer or automated dispensing system =)
[23:39:47] <andypugh> It certainly is the latter. It dispenses lead. Quickly.
[23:40:04] <Jymm> exactly =)
[23:40:29] <JT-Shop> I'm guessing a 6 lb cannon would be tough to explain over there as well
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[23:41:11] <Jymm> Not a cannon, it's a rianwater collection and dispensing system
[23:41:54] <andypugh> Cannons are fine. You only need a shot-gun license for one.
[23:42:12] <Jymm> andypugh: how hard is that to get?
[23:42:46] <JT-Shop> one big shotgun
[23:45:32] <andypugh> I would need a gun cabinet, but that’s about it.
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[23:52:51] <jdh> can you just make your own gatling?
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