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[00:08:31] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
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[00:31:15] <LeelooMinai> _methods: They can still be unbricked I think - you need to use moded driver that will accept id of 0 or something like that
[00:31:52] <LeelooMinai> Under linux preferably as it will be easier to do
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[00:36:58] <fenugrec> http://www.minipwner.com/index.php/unbrickftdi000
[00:37:48] <_methods> i unbricked it already
[00:37:57] <_methods> yeah i used that minipwner one
[00:38:07] <_methods> just irritating
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[00:38:17] <_methods> wasted 30 min before i figured out what was goin on
[00:38:30] <_methods> didn't look closesly at lsusb
[00:38:51] <_methods> once i looked at it and saw it showing up as a 7 port usb hub..............
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[00:43:09] <ssi> hm
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[00:47:46] <Jymmm> I have an 8 port hub
[00:48:17] <_methods> haha apparently i did too........
[00:48:22] <_methods> too bad it wasn't a hub
[00:48:33] <Jymmm> oh, what ws it
[00:48:40] <_methods> my usb to uart
[00:48:48] <Jymmm> lol
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[00:49:08] <_methods> ftdi put out some drivers to brick fake ftdi232 chips
[00:49:19] <_methods> apparently mine was bootleg lol
[00:49:26] <Jymmm> nice, I herd about that
[00:50:19] <LeelooMinai> Under pressure they decided to just put warning in the future, no?
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[00:51:54] <_methods> yeah
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[00:51:58] <_methods> they reversed it i guess
[00:52:06] <_methods> and i think they only did it to windows drivers
[00:52:19] <_methods> apparently i plugged mine into one of my windows boxes
[00:52:20] <_methods> oops
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[00:57:19] <Connor> _methods: Yea, they reversed it like a day after they released it.
[00:57:53] <_methods> not on mine lol
[00:58:10] <fenugrec> took a bit longer than that I think... like a week. I laughed and laughed when I heard of the mess they got themselves in. What a stupid move
[00:58:17] <_methods> but that's ok i just reversed it
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[01:05:38] <PetefromTn_> This is one of the MANY times on this chat where I don't know what the hell everyone is talking about....sigh
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[01:06:44] <ssi> lol
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[01:07:31] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn_: FTDI is a maker of popular USB<->serial chips. Chinese cloned them and the clones ended up in many devices. Then FTDI decided to change their drivers so when they detect cloned chips they disable them semi-permanently. As you can expect that pissed many people off, since often the clones manged to get into boards people would buy without having any idea there are clones on there:)
[01:07:34] <fenugrec> https://startpage.com/do/search?q=ftdi+brick
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[01:08:15] <PetefromTn_> Damn that bites for the users.
[01:08:18] <fenugrec> PetefromTn_ all that shit hit the fan in september so it's not "old old" news yet
[01:08:46] <PetefromTn_> I know it would piss me off if my electronic goodness died because some jackhole wrote a script to brick it LOL
[01:09:43] <LeelooMinai> Only in this case it's not a script but official Windows driver. Even Microsoft did not really like that:)
[01:10:12] <PetefromTn_> jeez
[01:10:21] <LeelooMinai> No wonder, since people may say "Microsoft updata bricked my hardware!"
[01:10:44] <PetefromTn_> I can understand their pissed that they were losing their product but annoying paying customers is NOT the way to retaliate.
[01:11:23] <PCW> These are non-paying customers
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[01:12:01] <LeelooMinai> Well, depens - apparently fake chips managed to get into even places like DigiKey - imagine that.
[01:12:06] <Rab> The customers may have thought they paid, that's the distinction.
[01:12:47] <LeelooMinai> Also, many people have not a clue what chips there are on boards - they just buy something and are not experts on what can be fake or not on there.
[01:13:06] <PCW> Bricking is a bit extreme, an obnoxios warning would be about right
[01:13:34] <LeelooMinai> Yes, they could just put a message with warning. Silent bricking is just evil.
[01:13:37] <PetefromTn_> I sure as hell have ZERO idea what chips or parts or whatever is in my electronics devices. Take my 7i77 for instance...LOL
[01:14:31] <fenugrec> like eevblog said, it's not hurting the cloners - those guys already made their sale. What did FTDI expect ? that no one would ever figure out what was happening ? incredible
[01:14:33] <LeelooMinai> I mean suddenly things do not work and you have zero idea what's going on, unless you are some strange werido that talks on IRC about electronics...o, wait...
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[01:16:00] <PCW> Well if you buy bottom of the barrel Chinese usb adapters to a certain extent you deserve it
[01:16:29] <LeelooMinai> Or maybe you are poor and cannot affford anything else:)
[01:16:45] <PCW> so its OK to steal?
[01:16:59] <LeelooMinai> It's not the buyers who steal...
[01:17:20] <PCW> Sure it is
[01:17:27] <LeelooMinai> You think those sellers write "Warning, this board contains cloned chips!" :)
[01:17:28] <PetefromTn_> how ya figure?
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[01:17:52] <fenugrec> PCW: I hear a looot of clone junk got inside the official distro channels, so...
[01:17:56] <PCW> they bought cheap and are using FTDIs IP
[01:18:05] <PCW> =stole
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[01:18:14] <LeelooMinai> They bought "USB to serial" board
[01:18:28] <LeelooMinai> Compatible with FTDI:)
[01:19:02] <PCW> using FTDIs drivers since hey could make one work themselves
[01:19:11] <PCW> could not
[01:19:30] <LeelooMinai> Well, you put the board into PC and the drivers load themselves...
[01:19:41] <LeelooMinai> Sounds good:)
[01:19:56] <Rab> There's another important point: everything the cloners are doing is 100% legal in most western nations with the possible exception of stamping the FTDI trademark on top of the chip.
[01:20:54] <Rab> Using the driver might be ethically shady, and FTDI offers it under restrictive licensing terms...but you don't agree to those when it's installed via Windows Update.
[01:21:01] <PCW> I doubt it (look at the FTDI driver licence)
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[01:21:39] <Rab> And US courts at least have held clickwrap licenses to be unenforceable AFAIK.
[01:23:03] <PCW> I dont think so (true at one time, not so much anymore)
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[01:24:21] <LeelooMinai> PCW: I wonder what you would say if by accident you had some clones in your mesa boards and one they boom, they would all stop warking:)
[01:24:42] <Rab> So there's a plausible scenario where you could buy a chip from an overseas vendor that emulates an FT232 (legal), announces itself with the FT232 USB vid/pid (totally legal), uses the driver (I claim 100% legal, receptive to contrary evidence), but doesn't include the physical trademarked logo. FTDI has no legal title to this hardware, and certainly has no business modifying it.
[01:25:24] <PCW> No but they could make their driver incompatible
[01:25:39] <fenugrec> incompatible != bricking
[01:25:49] <LeelooMinai> They flashed the clones and disabled them...
[01:25:57] <fenugrec> I'm all for FTDI preventing their driver from working with recognized clones
[01:26:02] <PCW> Surem that a bit over the top
[01:26:22] <fenugrec> "write your own drivers, bunch of freeloaders" etc etc
[01:26:43] <PCW> I agree they should not have changed anything in the devices
[01:26:45] <fenugrec> anyway. At least it's "semi-permanent"
[01:26:58] <LeelooMinai> Not for people that are not tech savvy
[01:27:50] <LeelooMinai> imho Chinese should sue FTDI now for disabling their clones:p
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[01:28:07] <fenugrec> Probably quite complex for a lot of people, but not impossible... I guess the typical reflex would be to refer to the vendor/mfg who should be aware of the FTDI situation and help the customer
[01:30:39] <LeelooMinai> btw, I have this lattice fpga board - totally legitimate from Lattice and 2 days ago it stopped working with Lattice software. It has also FTDI to comunicate over USB. Had to disable it and use external programmer. Not sure what happened there, but I am a bit scared of FTDI chips now:)
[01:31:15] <fenugrec> haha nice
[01:31:31] <PCW> We have used may thousands and have never had an issue (nor do we buy from unknown vendors)
[01:32:12] <LeelooMinai> PCW: Just wait untile they make even better clones and you get ones by accident:)
[01:32:53] <PCW> Unlikely (and this will make people that sold those close as real more careful)
[01:33:01] <PCW> clones
[01:33:11] <LeelooMinai> I bet undetectable ones are already in the "development"
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[01:42:08] <PCW> well if they use FTDI VID thats plain illegal
[01:44:34] <_methods> i definitely got what i deserved i mean paying $3 for a ft232 usb to uart board when the ft232R alone costs 3x that much
[01:44:45] <_methods> i know that thing was not legit
[01:45:03] <_methods> but man $3
[01:45:29] <_methods> i paid for it with an hour of my life now
[01:45:46] <mozmck> probably worth more than $3
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[01:47:09] <PCW> so FTDI just fixed the clones VID
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[01:47:42] <_methods> yeah
[01:48:18] <LeelooMinai> Well, they took their own, fine, but who allowed them to put 0 in there? :)
[01:48:31] <mozmck> Their chips are expensive in my opinion. An ARM cortex with USB, driver code (or even drivers built in ROM), examples, and loads of processing power costs about the same.
[01:48:48] <PCW> Should they buy a VID for the cloners?
[01:48:51] <LeelooMinai> mozmck: You are kidding? It costs 1/3
[01:49:31] <LeelooMinai> I can buy USB ARM for $2.6
[01:49:44] <PCW> FTDI is much smaller than almost any ARM supplier
[01:49:58] <Rab> PCW, it's not illegal to use FTDI's VID.
[01:50:33] <PCW> How so? FTDI must pay for it
[01:50:51] <PCW> do the cloners?
[01:51:06] <mozmck> not kidding at all, we switched from an FTDI chip costing around $3, to an LPC ARM cortex-m3 costing about the same, but gained a lot in functionality etc.
[01:51:18] <Rab> A VID is a number. It's not copyrightable. The USB organization allocates the numbers to paying vendors, but that's a private agreement with no force of law.
[01:52:49] <Rab> If you don't have an agreement with usb.org, you can use any VID/PID you want. (You are not allowed to say your product is USB compliant or use the USB logo without an agreement, however.)
[01:54:10] <PCW> Right which I'm sure all of the affected devices did
[01:55:16] <Rab> But can you provide any evidence of that?
[01:57:35] <Rab> And even if a vendor did, they are only liable for trademark infringement against USB Implementers Forum, Inc. That has nothing to do with use of the VID/PID, or FTDI.
[01:58:36] <Rab> (And only liable in countries which respect trademark infringement, ha ha.)
[01:58:50] <PCW> right ruling out China
[01:59:54] <Rab> Yep! So they're scot free. Maybe if there was a western legal judgement, eBay would pull the listing and they'd have to list it again without the trademarks. Maybe.
[02:01:33] <mozmck> We should just levy an import tax on all items from China :)
[02:01:57] <_methods> i'd never buy that crap for anything real
[02:02:06] <_methods> i just buy it for screwin around in the garage
[02:02:28] <_methods> you end up payin for it with wasted time
[02:02:47] <_methods> i got a couple of those saleae logic clones
[02:02:52] <Rab> The chinese government might just subsidize the tax, the way they subsidize shipping to keep eating the western market.
[02:02:53] <_methods> still never got them working yet
[02:02:58] <PCW> Since FTDI just set the VID to 0 it did not brick the chips, it just made them unsupported by the FTDI driver
[02:03:23] <Rab> Really? I have a few different Saleae knock-offs and they all work fine.
[02:03:23] <_methods> yea
[02:03:31] <_methods> well i'm an idiot
[02:03:41] <_methods> so that might have something to do wtih them not working
[02:04:00] <mozmck> I bet the chinese could change their clones to not allow the VID to be changed...
[02:04:23] <mozmck> I have a real Saleae logic, and it is quite handy.
[02:04:27] <LeelooMinai> No need for that - they just need to make them not-detectable.
[02:05:00] <Rab> PCW, 0 is unsupported as a valid VID in mainstream operating systems. (Although Linux was recently patched for that.) So setting VID to 0 effectively prevents the OS from loading any driver, not just FTDI's.
[02:05:44] <LeelooMinai> As I said, getting their VID out - ok, but putting 0 in there - not ok:)
[02:06:13] <_methods> it actually set it to something besides 0
[02:06:23] <_methods> it made it look like a 7port usb hub for me
[02:06:39] <Rab> _methods, are you trying to use the Saleae software? I've been using sigrok:
http://sigrok.org
[02:06:47] <_methods> yeah i tried sigrok
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[02:06:58] <_methods> i must have screwed something up setting it up
[02:07:21] <LeelooMinai> I have Saleae clones too. One of them (16) does not yet work in Sigrok, but they did some work on it when I ask them in the channel.
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[02:07:29] <_methods> i honestly have no business using a logic analyzer it's so far beyond my capabilities lol
[02:07:48] <_methods> i'm like a monkey with a shotgun
[02:07:58] <LeelooMinai> _methods: I would disagree - even beginners can take advantage of it.
[02:08:17] <_methods> well i try lol
[02:08:21] <LeelooMinai> It's pretty simple to use in comparison to, say, oscilloscope.
[02:08:41] <_methods> yeah i need to get one of those
[02:08:51] <PetefromTn_> I would be better off with the shotgun
[02:08:52] <_methods> one day
[02:08:55] <LeelooMinai> You just capture stream of 1s/0s and look at them - how difficult is that:)
[02:09:06] <Rab> Like a scope, it can also simplify complex troubleshooting tremendously.
[02:09:30] <_methods> i make the trouble just fine
[02:09:39] <_methods> the shooting part is what eludes me
[02:11:18] <LeelooMinai> I bought a legitimate LA recently too (which is strange for me,): dslogic. It was kickstarted once and now they sell them for $99 - it has much better specs that comparable Saleae and works with their own version of Sigrok.
[02:11:57] <LeelooMinai> http://www.dreamsourcelab.com/dslogic.html
[02:12:22] <mozmck> I think if I get another one, I'll go for this:
http://www.lpcware.com/content/project/Mixed-Signal-Logic-Analyzer-Oscilloscope-Lab-Tool-Solution
[02:12:35] <LeelooMinai> The oscilloscope part is separate - but I already have oscilloscope so don't need it.
[02:12:54] <mozmck> Looks like $129 total: www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Embedded-Artists/EA-XPR-202
[02:13:38] <PetefromTn_> careful it might have chinese chips in it ;)
[02:13:50] <Rab> mozmck, link not working.
[02:14:20] <mozmck> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Embedded-Artists/EA-XPR-202/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduigvSqqTLPAtr5BktBS9jL3wRzij%252bgJii1ysK5uyGxSiQ%3d%3d
[02:14:26] <mozmck> try that
[02:14:30] <Rab> Mouser links contain all this bizarre garbage, stripping it out kills the URL.
[02:14:36] <Rab> Works!
[02:14:36] <LeelooMinai> mozmck: What is this - looks like some weird shield-like addon for something else?
[02:14:38] <mozmck> Looks like
[02:15:51] <mozmck> Basically a dev board, that attaches to their jtag tool
[02:16:18] <mozmck> It says the Link2 board is included with the Labtool.
[02:17:41] <mozmck> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/app/labtool.php
[02:18:02] <LeelooMinai> Looks interesting, but I don't think it can do sampling rates of that dslogic one
[02:18:27] <fenugrec> 6Mhz BW... not huge
[02:19:18] <LeelooMinai> Right, that's not even close
[02:20:04] <mozmck> No, but for the price it looks like a handy tool for a lot of uses. I have a real scope for everything else.
[02:20:14] <mozmck> The dslogic does look interesting.
[02:20:40] <mozmck> Is the software pretty good?
[02:20:52] <LeelooMinai> It's sigrok modified by them/forked
[02:21:06] <LeelooMinai> But eventually the main sigrok should support it too
[02:21:25] <cox> I ordered this, Open hardware worth a look
https://www.lab-nation.com/
[02:21:32] <mozmck> I haven't used sigrok, so I don't really know much about it.
[02:22:27] <mozmck> the Saleae logic software is a bit buggy
[02:22:37] <LeelooMinai> mozmck: Well, it's pretty much the only reasonable open-source LA/signal GUI right now. Not perfect yet, but seems people are working on it activelly and it has already many decoders and features
[02:23:18] <LeelooMinai> Saleae software looks nice, but progresses slow and some features were not there for ages - like advanced triggering
[02:23:38] <mozmck> that labtool has open-source software as well:
https://github.com/embeddedartists/labtool I don't know anything about it though.
[02:23:49] <LeelooMinai> So kind of a lot of bling, but not much progress overall:)
[02:24:47] <mozmck> Seems like. I bought it several years ago because it supported linux, and I couldn't find anything else at the time that did.
[02:25:58] <LeelooMinai> I just bought $8 clones of Saleae and used the original software
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[02:27:20] <mozmck> cox: have you gotten that smartscope yet? looks interesting.
[02:28:00] <LeelooMinai> I don't think they even sell it yet (?)
[02:31:46] <mozmck> ugh, requires Mono for the software.
[02:32:17] <CaptHindsight> !seen zeeshan
[02:32:17] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2014-12-01 21:54:25GMT 04:37:52 ago, saying damn
[02:33:14] <PetefromTn_> cool
[02:33:45] <CaptHindsight> !seen PetefromTn_
[02:33:45] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2014-12-02 02:33:13GMT 00:00:32 ago, saying cool
[02:34:15] <PetefromTn_> heh
[02:34:26] <PetefromTn_> oh the simple things that amuse me
[02:34:54] <_methods> !search bots are gay
[02:35:06] <_methods> heheh
[02:35:11] <_methods> !weather
[02:35:30] <CaptHindsight> this one might be transgender
[02:35:44] <PetefromTn_> anyone got a good netfix reccomend? Wanna watch something cool while I work on my prototype drawing here heh
[02:35:54] <_methods> black mirror is on netflix now
[02:36:02] <PetefromTn_> never heard of it.
[02:36:18] <_methods> it's like twilight zone kida
[02:36:19] <_methods> kinda
[02:36:33] <_methods> watch the white bear? i think
[02:36:52] <_methods> yeah white bear
[02:37:26] <PetefromTn_> just watched Star Trek into darkness..
[02:37:31] <PetefromTn_> awesome movie
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[02:38:14] <PetefromTn_> is that agents of shield any good or just lotsa hype?
[02:38:39] <_methods> a guy at work is always tryin to get me to watch it
[02:38:42] <_methods> he says it's great
[02:38:56] <_methods> but i have no idea
[02:38:58] <PetefromTn_> ya know what I thought was really good. Anthony Bourdain's series..
[02:39:14] <_methods> yeah if you like that you might like mind of a chef
[02:39:42] <PetefromTn_> I just liked how he went to all these different places and ate native food that you can't get at the resorts etc.
[02:40:13] <_methods> yeah mind of a chef is like that
[02:40:32] <PetefromTn_> most of the episodes he tried to eat some street food and also eat in some upscale part of the community. Really interesting
[02:41:27] <PetefromTn_> watched the cable guy yesterday. Jim Carey cracks me up in that one.
[02:42:34] <_methods> i watched that dawn of the planet of the apes yesterday
[02:42:36] <_methods> was pretty good
[02:43:00] <PetefromTn_> been trying to design a rail to complement my RWS54 rifle. I have built several different picatinny rails now but this one has got me stumped LOL
[02:43:10] <PetefromTn_> probably because it is MY rail for my rifle
[02:43:22] <PetefromTn_> is that the old planet of the apes?
[02:43:34] <_methods> no the new one
[02:43:42] <PetefromTn_> oh yeah its good huh
[02:43:47] <PetefromTn_> have not seen it
[02:43:48] <_methods> yeah
[02:44:01] <PetefromTn_> ya know what sucks
[02:44:05] <_methods> ?
[02:44:09] <PetefromTn_> on my blu ray player
[02:44:13] <PetefromTn_> I have netflix
[02:44:21] <PetefromTn_> and on my flatscreen it came with netfix
[02:44:31] <PetefromTn_> but only on the blu ray player can you search
[02:44:44] <PetefromTn_> well at least I have not figured out how to search on the flatscreen
[02:44:58] <PetefromTn_> never seen anything that even remotely looked like a search
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[02:45:11] <PetefromTn_> so I just do it online on the laptop or my cell and add it to the que
[02:45:16] <_methods> yeah
[02:45:29] <_methods> i just chromecast it
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[02:45:35] <PetefromTn_> hehe
[02:45:39] <_methods> that way i can search on my phone or tablet
[02:45:56] <_methods> or laptop
[02:46:51] <PetefromTn_> its about time to watch Christma vacation and THe Christmas Story...over and over again hehehe
[02:47:07] <_methods> oh thx for reminding me
[02:47:15] <_methods> xmas present for the wife
[02:47:23] <_methods> she's a huge christmas story junkie
[02:47:24] <PetefromTn_> classics
[02:47:40] <_methods> they had a leg lamp ugly xmas sweater on teefury
[02:48:06] <PetefromTn_> I love the father in that movie he was hilarious...
[02:48:28] <_methods> http://www.teefury.com/ugly-sweaters
[02:48:32] <PetefromTn_> sonsabitchin' bumpasses!!!
[02:51:52] <PetefromTn_> can't find dawn of the planet of the apes
[02:52:52] <_methods> oh i think it comes out tomorrow
[02:53:48] <PetefromTn_> damn
[02:54:04] <PetefromTn_> looks like Congo it is....
[02:54:25] <_methods> wow old school lol
[02:54:26] <PetefromTn_> did you decide if you are gonna get that 7x12
[02:54:42] <PetefromTn_> really how old is it.
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[02:54:48] <PetefromTn_> don't think I ever saw it.
[02:54:55] <_methods> i need to finish my x2 build lol
[02:55:13] <_methods> i was just wondering if it was worth grabbin the 7x12 while it was on sale
[02:55:23] <PetefromTn_> then just lay it on its side and voila you got the 7x12 LOL
[02:55:43] <_methods> heheh
[02:56:11] <PetefromTn_> I saw recently somewhere someone actually took the table from an X2 or something and put it on a lathe to have a LONG cross slide travel
[02:56:18] <PetefromTn_> to allow a gang tool setup easeir
[02:56:21] <PetefromTn_> easier
[02:56:28] <PetefromTn_> that is not a terrible idea actually
[02:56:34] <roycroft> are you talking about a 7x12 bandsaw?
[02:56:41] <PetefromTn_> lathe
[02:56:43] <roycroft> oh
[02:56:47] <_methods> nah harbor fright
[02:56:56] <roycroft> hf have a 7x12 bandsaw
[02:57:05] <roycroft> i thought they only had a 7x10 lathe though
[02:57:09] <PetefromTn_> I have an 7x12 bandsaw
[02:57:11] <_methods> maybe it is
[02:57:12] <roycroft> which is really more like a 7x8
[02:57:14] <PetefromTn_> it is really nice
[02:57:22] <roycroft> yes, i have one
[02:57:26] <_methods> sounds like a scroll saw lol
[02:57:32] <roycroft> it's way way way better than my old 4x6
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[03:00:15] <Connor> jdh: You there ?
[03:00:52] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You need to watch The Arrow series..
[03:01:19] <PetefromTn_> I know you said it is good
[03:01:45] <PetefromTn_> I did not like superman tv show whatever that was called
[03:01:56] <PetefromTn_> seemed like you had to wait a long time for any real action
[03:01:59] <jdh> hey... got the box, looks great!
[03:01:59] <PetefromTn_> is it like that?
[03:02:14] <Connor> I think it is.. I watched all the episodes on Netflix, then watched this season from CW Online.
[03:02:52] <Connor> PetefromTn_: No. The First episode is a tad like that because it has to introduce the back story.
[03:03:05] <Connor> jdh: Good deal.
[03:03:12] <PetefromTn_> what box?
[03:03:19] <Connor> PetefromTn_: He got his Z mount
[03:03:26] <PetefromTn_> oh the one we made
[03:03:29] <PetefromTn_> sweet
[03:03:30] <Connor> yea.
[03:03:30] <jdh> you made it on pete's machin?
[03:04:12] <jdh> Now I just have to talk myself into taking the head off again
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[03:04:12] <PetefromTn_> yeah we did that long weekend he was here
[03:04:35] <PetefromTn_> not my best programming job but it looked like it should work
[03:04:50] <jdh> looks great to me.
[03:04:52] <Connor> The first one.. we had that strange too path mishap..
[03:05:07] <PetefromTn_> yeah still not sure what happened.
[03:05:17] <jdh> and a little more rigid than mine... it's made out of 4 pieces of 0.375" delrin bolted together
[03:05:54] <PetefromTn_> fer sure
[03:06:39] <Connor> I had to adjust the set screws to get the Z mount correctly positioned.. which is why I guess they're there.. huh?
[03:07:06] <jdh> what set screws?
[03:07:41] <Connor> 2 set screws above and below the mount slot.
[03:08:14] <Connor> on the Z saddle.
[03:08:31] <PetefromTn_> cannot remember the damn video I saw where they used a long travel mill table on a lathe cross slide
[03:08:33] <jdh> hmm... don't rememer those
[03:08:40] <jdh> but, it's been a couple years?
[03:09:56] <Connor> jdh: Yea.. I forgot about them until I took it apart. they allow you to adjust the depth of the Z mount.. (and the forward/backward pitch) while the bolts through the slot let you adjust the left and right position..
[03:10:24] <PetefromTn_> so does that mean it worked or not hehe
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[03:10:34] <jdh> I still don't recall those.
[03:10:49] <jdh> I think mine is a little different than yours though.
[03:11:49] <jdh> did yours have the 3 bolt mod already done?
[03:11:54] <Connor> No.
[03:12:01] <jdh> and does yours have the hole drilled for the spindle lock?
[03:12:07] <Connor> No.
[03:12:53] <Connor> http://imageshack.us/a/img803/306/dsc0125ous.jpg
[03:12:58] <Connor> look at that picture..
[03:13:16] <Connor> you see the holes above and below the slot on the Z saddle ?
[03:13:27] <Connor> that's what I'm talking about.. set screws in there.
[03:13:48] <_methods> did you scrape that?
[03:13:51] <jdh> heh... still doesn't ring any bells.
[03:14:17] <Connor> _methods: Not mine.. just searched to find a picture showing what I was talking about. :)
[03:14:22] <_methods> ahhh
[03:14:37] <_methods> well that z plate is scraped
[03:14:39] <_methods> crazy
[03:15:03] <jdh> nothign but the finest chinese hand scraped goodness
[03:15:05] <Connor> No. It's not.. it's cosmetic.
[03:15:07] <_methods> right
[03:15:31] <_methods> cosmetic scraping lol
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[03:15:59] <Connor> http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/mrcodewiz/metalworking/G0704/G0704%20CNC%20Conversion/Photos/ZBracket4.jpg
[03:16:05] <Connor> I like the design of this Z mount.
[03:16:13] <Connor> very similar to the design originally in the mill.
[03:16:28] <jdh> teh motor mount or the ballnut mount?
[03:16:31] <Connor> Allows for adjusting the Z
[03:16:51] <jdh> have you seen the two-part Z ballnut mounts?
[03:17:07] <Connor> Just the one I showed the picture off.
[03:17:10] <Connor> of.
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[03:18:17] <Connor> http://s457.photobucket.com/user/mrcodewiz/media/metalworking/G0704/G0704%20CNC%20Conversion/Photos/XBallnutBracket1.jpg.html
[03:18:27] <Connor> The Z looks better than hoss's design too.
[03:19:23] <PetefromTn_> You gotta be kiddin' me BETTER than Hoss's design??? LOL
[03:19:52] <Connor> PetefromTn_: *smack* I don't think Hoss walks on water.. geez..
[03:19:56] <jdh> yeah, I like the Z. Allows you to insert the ballscrew easily.
[03:20:09] <jdh> have you put yours together?
[03:20:29] <jdh> did you have to put the ballnut mount in the column then feed the screw/nut into it?
[03:20:46] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[03:20:54] <Connor> I had to use long h-sockets to install the bolts AFTER the screw was inserted into the column.. was a freaking PITA
[03:21:34] <Connor> a 2 part design would have been nicer.
[03:21:41] <jdh> I had to do that with my delrin one. And put nuts on teh bottom
[03:22:03] <jdh> I dropped a bunch of them. Still in there I think.
[03:22:40] <Connor> bit the z mount in.. put the screw and ballnut into the mount.. use long allen wrench or scoket-driven hex drivers to install the bolts.
[03:23:44] <Connor> I think either my Z is slightly bent, or the shaft isn't machined super concentric with the screw..
[03:23:48] <jdh> anyone have any stainless BHCS M5x20mm
[03:24:18] <Connor> I need to take it apart to install the other bearing.. going to try to give it the table test and see..
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[03:25:36] <jdh> did they send you a new one?
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[03:25:51] <Connor> I've not complained yet.. I'm going to double check it.
[03:26:18] <jdh> I got mine from VXB via amazon. They were cheaper their than straight from bxb
[03:26:33] <Connor> oh wait. the baring? yes.
[03:26:46] <Connor> They sent it to me UPS 1 day.
[03:27:24] <jdh> cool
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[03:28:37] <Connor> Kinda stuck at this point.. can't do too much more till I get back over to Pete's and hog out the base and mill the groves in the saddle.
[03:29:02] <jdh> got a chisel?
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[03:29:32] <Connor> Umm.. just the ones for wood work... why ?
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[03:30:32] <jdh> you don't need a mill for that. Just a chisel.
[03:31:09] <jdh> I bought an X2 to do mine
[03:31:09] <Connor> No.. I need to mill it out.. I have to take out a bit of material.. I'm doing extended Y travel.
[03:31:17] <jdh> oh yeah
[03:31:40] <zeeshan> http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN105S9-Curved-105-Inch-Ultra/dp/B00L403O8U/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1417483155&sr=1-1&keywords=samsung+tv
[03:31:58] <jdh> I'd feel obligated to watch teevee if I got that.
[03:32:24] <Connor> going to run a profile around the inside edge of the grove on the base.. and open it length wise.. and clean up the edges.. (its' tapered)
[03:32:56] <jdh> I should take mine apart when I do the Z mount. I'm losing a little Y travel
[03:33:19] <Connor> I should be able to get 9.5" Y travel when done.
[03:33:53] <jdh> I'd like to do the block extension thing just to get the space back from my huge vise
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[03:35:01] <Connor> yea... kinda sucks to loose that much travel just to have the vise mounted on the center groove.
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[03:39:53] <XXCoder> loose or lose?
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[03:43:05] <jdh> either would suck.
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[03:46:26] <XXCoder> wonder if theres good small vice
[03:46:35] <XXCoder> flat type to hold stuff while drill or something
[03:46:45] <XXCoder> like kurt but not so pricy
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[04:01:15] <CaptHindsight> http://phys.org/news/2014-12-human-eye-invisible-infrared.html
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[04:07:39] <skunkworks> sure - if I shine the 1kw laser in my eye - I sense it!
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[04:10:28] <pcw_home> The near infrared GaAs lasers always seemed dimly visable to me as a deep red
[04:11:41] <Connor> XXCoder: I want to get this vise.
http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=multicat_cnc_vise
[04:12:45] <XXCoder> pretty expensive but not kurt expensive
[04:12:45] <XXCoder> kurt hurts wallet
[04:12:45] <Connor> Not that much more than the Shars 5" I got.
[04:12:45] <Connor> Wish they listed the specs on it.
[04:16:45] <XXCoder> oh well
[04:16:58] <XXCoder> I wonder how easy it for people to make accurate vices
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[04:19:21] <Tom_itx> pretty easy if you're Mr. Kurt
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[04:36:55] <Connor> I think I'll make some soft jaws or order some from
http://monsterjaws.com/ for it..
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[04:39:31] <zeeshan> my brain isnt working
[04:39:32] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/2y3YcWT.png
[04:39:41] <zeeshan> how the heck do i ensure the green block
[04:39:45] <zeeshan> rotates relative to the grey block
[04:39:58] <zeeshan> even though a bolt is holding em together
[04:40:05] <zeeshan> usually how ive done it in the past is used a double nut
[04:40:07] <zeeshan> or a spacer
[04:40:18] <zeeshan> but im limited in space.
[04:40:38] <Connor> wouldn't you use a bolt with a shoulder on it...
[04:40:38] <zeeshan> should i use a needle thrust bearing? :P
[04:41:05] <Connor> or a low profile thrust bearing.
[04:41:08] <Connor> what is that for ?
[04:41:13] <zeeshan> okay so i use a shoulder bolt
[04:41:20] <zeeshan> that ensures it rotates nicely
[04:41:43] <zeeshan> but it'll still try to force the two pieces to lock
[04:41:46] <zeeshan> unless i space it somehow?
[04:41:50] <zeeshan> connor jig for school
[04:42:32] <zeeshan> i gotta somehow make sure
[04:42:34] <zeeshan> when i tighten the bolt down
[04:42:42] <zeeshan> its washer face doesnt engage with the grey block
[04:42:48] <Connor> What I mean by shoulder bolt.. is one with limited amount of threads, then it's a tad larger.. so that the bolt STOPS and can't thread in any further.
[04:42:55] <zeeshan> yea
[04:43:18] <Connor> leaving a bit of slop
[04:43:42] <Connor> but, I'm not sure what sort of mechanical fit your looking for...
[04:44:14] <Connor> so, you may need to go with thrust bearing if you want it to be a nice tight fit.. but..that may cause issues with your d-tent.
[04:44:34] <zeeshan> yea
[04:44:42] <zeeshan> maybe i can use a 10 thou thrust washer
[04:44:43] <zeeshan> i have some
[04:44:49] <zeeshan> theyre extremely thin
[04:47:23] <zeeshan> thanks connor
[04:47:30] <zeeshan> brain really wasnt working. shoulder bolt was what i needed
[04:49:45] <toastydeath> also called a stripper bolt
[04:49:54] <toastydeath> </trivia>
[04:50:18] <zeeshan> what a slut
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[04:55:57] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/0jYhJFt.png
[04:55:59] <zeeshan> looks much better
[05:04:00] <XXCoder> interesting
http://miito.de/
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[05:31:56] <tjtr33> XXCoder, hmm when i get back home, im goona put a cup of water on my Mr. Induction stove and stand a big nail in the cup :)
[05:32:24] <XXCoder> yummy added minerials and amazin iron oxide flovor
[05:32:38] <XXCoder> little industry special flavor package including oil
[05:34:01] <tjtr33> maybe some series of stainless thats magnetic
[05:34:44] <toastydeath> it's nothing to do with that - it's all eddy current
[05:35:39] <tjtr33> nothing to do with a magnetic field?, all eddy current? huh? the designers say its induction
[05:35:41] <toastydeath> doesn't have to be magnetic, just has to be a) not diamagnetic, and b) absorbs well at the frequency
[05:35:50] <toastydeath> that the tank circuit resonates at
[05:36:48] <toastydeath> induction is eddy current driven, which doesn't rely on materials being ferromagnetic - paramagnetism is sufficient
[05:37:00] <toastydeath> (obviously the eddy currents are in response to a magnetic field
[05:37:32] <ssi> wow that was a lot of work
[05:37:40] <tjtr33> right not magnetic itself, correct, but reacts to magnetic field, i stand correctified
[05:44:35] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B30-H2JIIAETCd4.jpg:large
[05:44:42] <ssi> making a spider for the left end of the spindle
[05:44:53] <ssi> only suitable stock I could find was 3" roundbar
[05:44:59] <ssi> took ages to turn it down to 1.75 "
[05:46:14] <zeeshan> lol
[05:46:18] <XXCoder> ouch
[05:46:25] <zeeshan> use your cnc!
[05:46:35] <ssi> none of the cnc machines are operational yet!
[05:46:47] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/BYpT0Ht.png
[05:46:48] <zeeshan> comments?
[05:46:56] <zeeshan> i wonder if this will work the way i think it will
[05:47:02] <ssi> what am I looking at
[05:47:06] <zeeshan> a mount
[05:47:18] <ssi> for?
[05:47:20] <zeeshan> so its adjustable in the dovetail axial direction
[05:47:22] <zeeshan> in 3 spots
[05:47:28] <zeeshan> using an indent type of setup
[05:47:35] <zeeshan> then its adjustable in two rotational axis
[05:47:41] <zeeshan> its a calibration jig
[05:47:47] <zeeshan> for the cameras for my experiment at school
[05:48:10] <zeeshan> im hoping with enough force
[05:48:14] <zeeshan> i can make those detents jump
[05:48:40] <ssi> just select the springs carefully
[05:48:41] <zeeshan> the detents forcing towards the orange plate
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[05:48:45] <zeeshan> theyre dual purpose
[05:48:50] <zeeshan> they take up 5 thou of slack in the dovetail
[05:48:55] <zeeshan> cause im too lazy to machine gibs
[05:49:06] <zeeshan> yea i was thinking of buying a random spring kit
[05:49:09] <zeeshan> and cutting them to length
[05:49:13] <zeeshan> and just doing it by feel
[05:49:22] <ssi> I hope the clearance between this spider and the spindle bore isn't so much as to cause a problem
[05:49:22] <zeeshan> the holes are threaded too
[05:49:24] <zeeshan> so i can compress the springs
[05:49:32] <ssi> I'd hate to have to remake it :P
[05:49:47] <zeeshan> whats the id?
[05:49:51] <ssi> 1.403"
[05:49:59] <zeeshan> whats the spindle bore id? :p
[05:50:00] <ssi> and this came out 1.395"
[05:50:04] <tjtr33> maybe just buy vlier pins what toolmakers use
http://vlier.com/product_index/mechanical/mech_09_springpin.html
[05:50:08] <ssi> spindle bore id is 1.403
[05:50:18] <ssi> od of the small end of the spider is 1.395
[05:50:50] <zeeshan> tjtr33: but then i cant adjust the feel for em
[05:51:05] <tjtr33> you can buy difernt spring pressures
[05:51:26] <ssi> about to chuck this thing up in a 5C 3-jaw chuck in a spin index bolted to the mill to drill and tap it
[05:51:40] <ssi> I have a rotab but I don't have a chuck or anything for it
[05:51:43] <tjtr33> 2.3 to 67.5 lbs
[05:51:44] <ssi> need to get that done
[05:53:39] <tjtr33> gnite
[05:53:43] <zeeshan> gnite!
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[05:57:02] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTMxWDgwMA==/z/2YYAAOSwEppUUETw/$_20.JPG
[05:57:04] <zeeshan> what in the world
[05:57:04] <zeeshan> is this
[05:58:18] <zeeshan> Bergonzi model LP 1250 box drill
[05:58:49] <zeeshan> now thats a drill press!
[06:01:29] <XXCoder> long arm that's for soure
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[06:08:07] <toastydeath> hahaha
[06:08:31] <toastydeath> that's a small radial arm drill
[06:09:23] <toastydeath> bigger one:
[06:09:23] <toastydeath> https://s3.amazonaws.com/machinetools_production/uploads/2013462/24758.JPG
[06:09:48] <toastydeath> 4' and under is small, 6' to 8' is midsized, anything over is big
[06:10:01] <toastydeath> for drilling large castings
[06:10:14] <XXCoder> toastydeath: the one rule about industual machines
[06:10:19] <XXCoder> theres always bigger
[06:10:26] <toastydeath> nah they top out at about 12'
[06:10:34] <XXCoder> for now
[06:10:37] <toastydeath> i think the biggest one ever made was like 14' or some shit
[06:10:39] <toastydeath> and nobody uses them anymore
[06:11:15] <XXCoder> I remember this sci fi books
[06:11:20] <XXCoder> somewhat crappy but..
[06:11:51] <XXCoder> they have this tech to make pure black shape that cause anything that touch to fall out of universe (atoms not whole thing at once)
[06:12:05] <XXCoder> they used some as "drill bits" and so on
[06:12:14] <XXCoder> I bet that'd be awesome as cnc tooling too
[06:12:34] <XXCoder> it dont even need to rotate. 0 rpm at whatever ipm machine can go max at
[06:13:24] <XXCoder> actually it can't curve so wou;d have a flat profile. probably need to rotate for nice even round cutting "surface"
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[06:15:41] <XXCoder> gonna love sci fi. night.
[06:19:46] <toastydeath> lol
[06:19:52] <toastydeath> night!
[06:21:15] <zeeshan> wow toastydeath that is huge.
[06:23:09] <unfy> got an electronics question
[06:23:31] <unfy> just started testing stuff, and more than one motor appears to be expressing it
[06:24:23] <unfy> it seems once per full rotation the motor is getting a 'pulse' in it. as in when holding the motor and the axis test run is going, every rotation you can feel a thud
[06:27:41] <pcw_home> what type of motor? What type of drive?
[06:36:52] <[cube]> what do you guys think of this lot?
[06:36:52] <[cube]> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/ottawa/cnc-stepping-motors-stepper/1035933096
[06:37:04] <[cube]> anything useful in there?
[06:37:20] <[cube]> im planning to convert a manual mill in a couple months
[06:37:25] <[cube]> (first time)
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[06:50:54] <unfy> pcw: found it, it was... kind of a math / division thing
[06:51:53] <unfy> and, just a generic lpt breakout board -> individual tb6560 drivers -> nema17 bipolar
[06:55:54] <unfy> but, a single axis quick test on some hardware i will NOT be using - works :D
[06:56:04] <unfy> rather, a PC i will not be using
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[07:50:01] <Deejay> moin
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[12:43:08] <jthornton> anyone using dgarr/moveoff on a machine yet?
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[13:27:24] * jthornton wonders why anyone would rather type in goto([-,-,10]) than G0 Z10 all those brackets and junk just drive me nuts typing
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[13:28:18] <Tom_itx> who does that!?
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[13:29:56] <jthornton> that gm something or other on the mailing list
[13:30:13] <jthornton> he is a C programmer and thinks it is easier to write G code in C
[13:31:12] <Tom_itx> he must be a c hacker instead
[13:32:02] <Tom_itx> or afraid to learn another language
[13:32:08] <Tom_itx> which is a rather simple one
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[13:46:45] <_methods> no doubt
[13:46:52] <_methods> not like gcode is that complicated
[13:47:25] <_methods> there was some other guy in here the other day having all kinds of problems with his program
[13:47:34] <_methods> everything was a variable
[13:50:00] <_methods> or some convoluted calculation
[13:53:12] <rob_h> u mean when u walk upto a CNC and find some kind sole wrote a hole program using varables , so to mod it takes all day to read over it
[13:53:38] <PetefromTn_> love that heh
[13:53:42] <_methods> yes
[13:53:55] <_methods> holy macro
[13:54:02] <_methods> is usually what i say
[13:54:26] <PetefromTn_> I wish I understood more about macros... I almost never use them
[13:54:38] <_methods> i use them for very specific things
[13:55:06] <PetefromTn_> I do basically everything in CAM and only even write hand coded stuff for very simple things
[13:55:11] <_methods> but i remember when i used to try and use them for everything lol
[13:55:22] <_methods> pissed of a lot of people
[13:55:38] <_methods> then a month later when i'm trying to work with the old program again i learned my lesson
[13:55:59] <_methods> comments.......even from yourself are usually useless lol
[13:56:48] <_methods> i've had setup guys get pissed at me for using subs too lol
[13:56:56] <PetefromTn_> I have learned to write copious comments to myself because invariably I forget whaddahell I did the last time I made that part even if it was just last week LOL
[13:58:30] <PetefromTn_> Just made another one of those Steyr Short picatinny rails. This time a bead blasted finish. Looks pretty sweet!!
[13:58:38] <_methods> ahh the real reason russia invaded ukraine
[13:58:40] <_methods> http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-russia-turkey-putin-energy-20141201-story.html
[14:01:26] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/1rHrqtk.jpg
[14:01:47] <PetefromTn_> http://i.imgur.com/JgdoEDw.jpg
[14:02:49] <_methods> ah nice
[14:03:23] <_methods> cycle time on that thing?
[14:04:11] <PetefromTn_> well about an hour or so. actual machine time from
[14:04:26] <_methods> from start to finish?
[14:04:46] <PetefromTn_> main body is about an hour
[14:04:55] <PetefromTn_> then the picatinny part takes another 20 or so
[14:05:07] <_methods> yeah that's alot of slots
[14:05:35] <PetefromTn_> yeah and I cut them with an 1/8 endmill because I am stupid and did not get a slightly larger one LOL
[14:05:50] <_methods> 2 passes for each slot?
[14:05:52] <PetefromTn_> you like it?
[14:05:59] <_methods> hell yeah man it looks great
[14:06:04] <PetefromTn_> well actually it runs down the middle
[14:06:14] <_methods> you need to start makin them for ar's
[14:06:18] <PetefromTn_> then it cuts tapered to the edge minus .01
[14:06:19] <_methods> probably sell way more
[14:06:31] <PetefromTn_> then it finish passes each slot
[14:06:42] <PetefromTn_> so once it is done with a slot it is done period
[14:06:59] <PetefromTn_> but the real time eater is the triangular profile down each side
[14:07:08] <PetefromTn_> and the slotting underneath it.
[14:07:20] <PetefromTn_> I do the entire picatinny profile from the vertical
[14:07:30] <PetefromTn_> so it is all the same every time for sure
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[14:08:02] <PetefromTn_> Honestly I would make them for AR's but from what I have seen everyone and their brothers brother make them often shitty and ill fitting and cheap.
[14:08:32] <_methods> well if you make a quality one some of those guys will pay top dollar i'm sure
[14:08:41] <PetefromTn_> my next door neighber is an AR nutjob
[14:08:41] <_methods> money seems to be no object to gun nutz
[14:09:01] <_methods> we get walkins all the time
[14:09:04] <PetefromTn_> he brought over all of the picatinny accessories he had to test fit my new rail.
[14:09:06] <_methods> wanting crazy gun mods
[14:09:17] <PetefromTn_> shit send em my way I NEED the work LOL
[14:09:47] <_methods> we just had a guy come in with an rp-90 we had to do some work on
[14:09:50] <PetefromTn_> only about half of them fit right and that was usually the most expensive ones. A lot of it is plastic crap
[14:10:13] <PetefromTn_> or poorly cast pot metal stuff
[14:10:18] <_methods> yeah
[14:10:47] <PetefromTn_> the real picatinny rail profile information is online to see and read and very little of what is labeled picatinny actually fits right
[14:11:32] <PetefromTn_> I have been beating the ground around here visiting all the local companies and shops trying to get work and it is like pulling fucking teeth sometimes to get even a little job.
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[14:12:05] <_methods> yeah it's rough doing job shop stuff
[14:12:26] <PetefromTn_> I feel like there is not much I cannot make and I think my parts show I can make a pretty part if I need to.
[14:12:28] <_methods> i never know if i'll have a job one month from the next
[14:12:47] <PetefromTn_> I doubt I will ever get used to that part of the game
[14:13:01] <_methods> it's stressful for sure
[14:13:28] <_methods> i can't wait till i'm retired and i can just make parts in my garage for spending money
[14:13:39] <PetefromTn_> I gotta get this rail mailed out this morning. Gonna visit the last company that sent me some work and see if they have anything.
[14:14:00] <_methods> you been hitting up the maint depts in big factories?
[14:14:13] <_methods> we get a lot of repair work from guys like that
[14:14:24] <PetefromTn_> I have visited quite a few of the local companies yeah
[14:14:25] <_methods> or small run production jobs
[14:14:44] <_methods> yeah it sux you really gotta hit them at the right time
[14:14:57] <_methods> if you walk in when they need something done you'll get it
[14:15:05] <_methods> but you gotta have the time to go hit them up
[14:15:23] <PetefromTn_> I spoke this morning to a fellow I used to do work for that owns a company that makes some cool bicycles and he needs some parts made he is sending over some drawings today. HOPEFULLY I will get that work at a reasonable price.
[14:15:34] <PetefromTn_> Oh I GOT THE TIME!! LOL
[14:15:58] <_methods> well if you got the time...doughnuts and coffee can go a long ways to drumming up some work
[14:16:11] <_methods> stop in and drop off doughnuts and coffee lol
[14:16:30] <PetefromTn_> not a bad idea really. sometimes I can't afford the donuts LOL
[14:16:31] <_methods> that's always a good tactic lol
[14:16:42] <_methods> yeah maybe just once a month
[14:16:54] <_methods> drop off some cards and donuts and coffee
[14:17:50] <PetefromTn_> I may just try that this morning. There is a DD on the way over there.
[14:18:08] <PetefromTn_> nothing works like a good sugary snack hehe
[14:18:12] <_methods> yep
[14:18:31] <_methods> do that a couple times and they'll remember you
[14:18:49] <PetefromTn_> if that doesn't work I will just get on my hands and knees and beg :O
[14:18:54] <_methods> hahaha
[14:19:33] <_methods> some places though other people are giving them better "donuts" and you'll never get in
[14:19:53] <_methods> unless you can give better "donuts"
[14:19:58] <PetefromTn_> those must be some freakin gold plated donuts..
[14:20:03] <_methods> deep sea fishing trips
[14:20:07] <_methods> hehe
[14:20:11] <_methods> yes gold plated donuts
[14:20:21] <_methods> disney world vacations
[14:20:25] <_methods> you know
[14:20:26] <PetefromTn_> ya gotta pay to play huh
[14:20:30] <_methods> yeah
[14:20:38] <PetefromTn_> shit I cannot even afford that for myself.
[14:20:49] <_methods> yea
[14:20:50] <_methods> yet
[14:21:38] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda proud of that Steyr rail design tho. Not bad for a NON-engineer type
[14:22:01] <_methods> engineers make functional stuff
[14:22:08] <_methods> designers make pretty stuff
[14:22:20] <PetefromTn_> then I must be of the designer bent I guess
[14:22:26] <_methods> looks that way lol
[14:22:36] <PetefromTn_> I get bored with just drill and tap and slot too much
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[14:22:54] <PetefromTn_> most of the reason I got into CNC was to be able to make smooth contours and curves etc. etc.
[14:23:02] <PetefromTn_> eye candy stuff.
[14:23:32] <PetefromTn_> can't wait to get this CNC lathe working so I can play with making some neat stuff on that machine.
[14:23:47] <_methods> how much you have left on it?
[14:23:53] <PetefromTn_> even on my manual lathe I made a lot of curvy contours
[14:24:23] <PetefromTn_> well honeslty I just don't have the money to get it done so it will probably have to wait until I get my tax returns or something to buy the damn CNC parts.
[14:24:41] <PetefromTn_> I could probably get it working inside a month easily if I had the parts I need for it.
[14:25:02] <PetefromTn_> right now I am just refinishing the sheetmetal panels and cleaning it up
[14:25:38] <_methods> i wish i had the space to have some real machines
[14:25:45] <PetefromTn_> it is starting to look like a lathe again but I am missing the rear sheetmetal panel behind the bed
[14:25:46] <_methods> one day
[14:26:07] <PetefromTn_> I just have a 25x25 shop nothing special at all.
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[14:26:35] <_methods> i need to try and talk some people into making a coop space
[14:26:44] <PetefromTn_> I also have to make the arm that will hold the pendant they stole that off of it.
[14:27:38] <PetefromTn_> I have some square tubing for it just gotta cut and tig weld it together.
[14:28:09] <PetefromTn_> and I have to make a rear support vertical member for the sliding headstock cover top rail support.
[14:28:31] <PetefromTn_> that will also probably just be square steel tube and some plate.
[14:29:22] <PetefromTn_> will probably have to get that rear panel bent up at a local sheetmetal shop as it will be pretty long and have multiple bends in it. it will also need to be thicker than I can reasonably bend here.
[14:42:19] <PetefromTn_> Well gotta head out to the Post office. BBL.
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[15:11:55] <JT-Shop> assembly table prepped and ready
[15:12:14] <_methods> what're you assembling?
[15:12:45] <JT-Shop> air filter kits I make for the Spyder
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[15:12:55] <_methods> ahh
[15:15:45] <_methods> every time i think of those spiders i just see kenny powers lol
[15:18:38] <_methods> http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz19oxjg5E1qd0z3co1_500.jpg
[15:19:19] <_methods> oooh better pic
[15:19:21] <_methods> http://i.lv3.hbo.com/assets/images/series/eastbound-and-down/episodes/3/17/episode-17-1024.jpg
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[15:48:52] <Guest31645> I'm trying to hook up my VFD. It's a WJ200. I see there are drivers for this on 2.6. Can anyone help me finding these and tell ing me what they do? Are they modbus drivers?
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[16:03:37] <jthornton> should be in the man pages
[16:04:38] <jdh> there is a wj200_vfd comp
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[16:05:26] <jthornton> I'm not seeing that in the 2.6 man pages
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[16:07:15] <jthornton> Guest31645, not taking any chances are you?
[16:07:32] <jthornton> forum, mailing list, IRC...
[16:07:46] * jthornton looks in the files
[16:08:40] <jthornton> I see the wj200 component... wonder why there is no man page
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[16:09:32] <cradek> it's polite to ask in one place at a time, because otherwise you waste a lot of others' time answering your questions in several disparate threads
[16:09:39] <jthornton> Guest31645, are you still here?
[16:09:42] <jthornton> exactly
[16:09:42] <cradek> jthornton: seb answered about that on the mailing list
[16:09:53] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[16:11:10] <_methods> http://www.lorenzpotthast.de/petroglyphomat/
[16:13:41] <ssi> morn
[16:16:14] <Rab> Strip away the academic language and I think they've got Rube Goldberg's cordless drill.
[16:16:27] <_methods> heheh
[16:17:09] <Rab> Nice Stonehenge photoshop, though--sure to provoke.
[16:19:57] <ssi> people build the dumbest crap
[16:20:14] <_methods> different strokes i guess
[16:20:36] <_methods> i'm sure some clown will put a 3d printer nozzle on it
[16:21:56] <jdh> like lixpen.com ?
[16:22:12] <_methods> is that that 3d printer pen
[16:22:18] <jdh> one of them.
[16:22:32] <jdh> the video is carefully edited to never show the end of a stroke
[16:23:01] <syyl_ws> i love that line, _methods :D
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[16:24:09] <_methods> hehe
[16:24:44] <syyl_ws> i always get a itchy feeling when i hear 3d printing or reprap
[16:25:06] <archivist> it is pronounced rep crap
[16:25:21] <_methods> hahahah
[16:25:22] <syyl_ws> oh lord :D
[16:25:27] <syyl_ws> just felt of my chair
[16:25:47] <syyl_ws> i also like "3rd industrial revolution by 3d printing"
[16:26:14] <syyl_ws> until i cant print brakedisks and calipers for my car with a consumermachine, its no revolution.
[16:27:11] <CaptHindsight> it's all the hype for the toy CNC glue guns, those sellers have no shame
[16:27:36] <syyl_ws> :D
[16:27:40] <syyl_ws> oh
[16:27:51] <syyl_ws> a guy at work bought a ultimaker2
[16:27:59] <syyl_ws> he showed me a few parts he printed
[16:28:02] <syyl_ws> they look ok
[16:28:07] <syyl_ws> but its plastic
[16:28:09] <jdh> key fobs?
[16:28:12] <CaptHindsight> they know it's a scam, they are just providing those suckers with a device to spend their money on
[16:28:13] <jdh> logos?
[16:28:20] <syyl_ws> crap that catches dust in the shelf, yes
[16:28:36] <CaptHindsight> FDM has a place but not for what they hype it to be for
[16:28:37] <jdh> but, you could print a gun!
[16:29:05] <syyl_ws> i could knock a gun out with a lathe, a tigwelder and some black steel pipe.
[16:29:08] <archivist> a potato gun
[16:29:28] <CaptHindsight> here's an actual good application
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141201-adidas-develops-new-springblade-footwear-using-3d-printing-technology.html
[16:29:48] <CaptHindsight> they are able to print the molds in a few days vs weeks
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[16:30:06] <syyl_ws> we also had parts from lasersintered molds
[16:30:07] <syyl_ws> hmm
[16:30:11] <syyl_ws> not to impresive ;)
[16:30:22] <syyl_ws> we could machine a simple cavitiy in the same time
[16:30:25] <CaptHindsight> 48hours vs 3-6 weeks for tooling
[16:31:08] <Rab> It's a good application, but it's definately not FDM.
[16:31:11] <CaptHindsight> you can also SLA print those soles in a few minutes
[16:31:20] <syyl_ws> ok thats true :D
[16:31:39] <CaptHindsight> no, that is laser with metal powder
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[16:32:18] <CaptHindsight> DMLS direct metal laser sintering
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[16:32:57] <CaptHindsight> then they injection mold with PA12
[16:33:24] <jdh> we have laser sintering. surface finish is awful
[16:33:36] <Rab> Custom prosthetics are one of the few FDM applications that actually made me sit up and take notice.
[16:33:38] <CaptHindsight> if the kids at reprap really wanted to innovate they would be working on other techniques
[16:34:02] <syyl_ws> that form# thing looks interesting
[16:34:04] <CaptHindsight> but they just want to peddle their glue guns
[16:34:09] <syyl_ws> with the resinbath
[16:34:33] <CaptHindsight> that is SLA, but the form1 is really slow since it uses a single laser
[16:34:36] <Rab> I think I might wear a glove over a filament prosthetic in public, though.
[16:35:05] <syyl_ws> just replace it with an hook
[16:35:09] <Rab> As opposed to some wicked sintered titanium thing.
[16:35:28] <syyl_ws> terminator ;)
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[16:55:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20141202-7-year-old-girl-receives-new-3d-printed-custom-made-bionic-arm.html
[16:56:34] <CaptHindsight> if they used SLA they could print that prosthetic in minutes vs days
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[17:06:58] <crash112> Hi all
[17:07:49] <crash112> PCW: Are you really out out of stock of the 7i76e cards?
[17:08:05] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[17:08:07] <crash112> I was hoping to have a new NC machine up and running b4 christmas
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[17:09:36] <pcw_home> I think we have 16 back from assy (assy error), will add to store today
[17:10:10] <crash112> Excellent!
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[17:13:22] <crash112> How are they under linuxcnc now? It's just a hobby machine, so I don't mind if I have to put a bit more time in to get it running perfectly.
[17:15:25] <crash112> I'll order a 5I25 as well incase I run into problems
[17:20:01] <crash112> PCW: also, will you be releasing a 7i77e at any point in the near future?
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[17:37:28] <pcw_home> crash112: the Ethernet cards need Linuxcnc 2.7 or master built for uspace and a preemt-rt kernel
[17:37:30] <pcw_home> so you either need to install the buildbot debs or compile the linuxcnc source (so a bit more work than just using the iso)
[17:41:36] <Loetmichel> *MHMMM* nice stuff. but needs a BIT more water... there is fire in there... (not exactly a whiskey glass, closest i could find in the kitchen ;-) ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15413
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[18:01:32] <Jasen> Hi pete
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[21:34:16] <jdh> are you sure?
[21:34:24] <jdh> anyone know what this is:
http://myrtlebeach.craigslist.org/hvo/4785620950.html
[21:34:59] <PetefromTn_> Its a shoptask machine 3 in 1
[21:35:12] <PetefromTn_> I used to have one before they made the bridgemill
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[21:36:47] <syyl_> uh
[21:36:51] <syyl_> the bridgemill looks funny
[21:37:39] <syyl_> a pretty beefed up version of the small 3in1 machines :o
[21:37:50] <PetefromTn_> it does but I am sure it goes a long way to strengthening the millhead on an otherwise halfway decent machine. I enjoyed mine
[21:38:12] <jdh> I'm not seeing the 'ability to put a cnc computer on it"
[21:38:18] <PetefromTn_> The lathe part of the machine was the better part
[21:38:33] <PetefromTn_> I could see one setup as an interesting gang tool setup.
[21:38:59] <PetefromTn_> they actually came setup for accepting motors on the table even when I bought mine.
[21:39:18] <PetefromTn_> It was the first machine I ever owned and I had it a LONG time ago.
[21:39:24] <jdh> where the handwheels are?
[21:39:38] <PetefromTn_> nothing like a good seperate lathe and mill but pretty decent for a 3 in 1
[21:40:04] <PetefromTn_> no actually the motors went on the back of the table and at the end of the Z travel. the millhead was a different story
[21:41:20] <PetefromTn_> that looks like an early bridgemill I think.
[21:41:51] <PetefromTn_> don't get me wrong it is still a 3 in 1 machine and has its compromises
[21:42:06] <Connor> http://shopmasterusa.com/
[21:42:10] <PetefromTn_> but for what it was it was not too bad really especially for a hobby machine.
[21:42:11] <Connor> Very funny looking machine.
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[21:42:46] <PetefromTn_> whats funny looking about it?
[21:43:04] <Connor> Just kinda funny looking.. I dunno.. :)
[21:45:16] <PetefromTn_> its just another chinese machine after all.
[21:45:53] <PetefromTn_> but I must say that the base of the machine would make for a cool gang tool lathe since you are basically using the X axis of the mill table to run your cross slide on.
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[22:11:17] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrlY8qEmO3I interesting setup
[22:17:43] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:46:27] <unfy> pcw: thanks again for lsat night :D
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[23:01:41] <unfy> Lookinag the getting started guide and a few other things, it looks like expected to roll own gcode or use something to convert dxf's.. or maybe openscam/blendercam ?
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[23:02:25] <unfy> the documentation is awesome about gcode itself and setting up linuxcnc - but not really about how ya generate projects to feed into it ._.
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[23:03:50] <unfy> and gcode reminds me of logo.
[23:03:58] <Tom_itx> that part is left up to you
[23:04:02] * unfy shudders to think back to that turtle of childhood
[23:04:15] <Tom_itx> gcode standard for most cnc machines
[23:04:50] <unfy> tom: so... it'd be the Cam page on the wiki ? as someone completely new to CNC stuff, this appears to be an initial stumbling block
[23:04:52] <Tom_itx> some hand write gcode others use fancy cad cam to do so
[23:05:23] <Tom_itx> cam generates gcode from the cad
[23:05:36] <unfy> so it'd be finding a cad program that supports it, or maybe a dxf to gcode converter etc. i understand.
[23:05:37] <Tom_itx> gcode is then interpreted by linuxcnc to movements on your machine
[23:05:50] <Tom_itx> 2d or 3d?
[23:06:04] <Tom_itx> there are a fair amount of 2d programs out there for free or little cost
[23:06:14] <unfy> understood
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[23:07:39] <unfy> that would explain one of the other softwares that came on a cd with .... i think the breakout board
[23:07:48] <unfy> some windows software with 'cam' in its name.
[23:08:07] * unfy will find an OSS or linux software for it <3
[23:09:42] <unfy> tom: tnx btw <3
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[23:11:05] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Do you know what he was making in that video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrlY8qEmO3I
[23:11:39] <PetefromTn_> it says a bugle mouthpiece why?
[23:11:55] <Connor> Looks like maybe a Trombone / baritone moutpiece.
[23:11:59] <Connor> Oh. I missed that.
[23:12:05] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[23:12:10] <PetefromTn_> pretty cool really
[23:12:22] <PetefromTn_> I have often considered doing something like that on the VMC.
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[23:12:30] <PetefromTn_> The mill 2 lathe setup is interesting.
[23:12:39] <Connor> I have done a little of that.
[23:12:57] <Connor> but, not a gang tool setup like that.
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[23:13:54] <PetefromTn_> I can do up to 7/8 inch I think with my ER32 setup but a small three jaw chuck is probably a bit better. never seen a Cat40 setup that way that I recall tho.
[23:13:57] <unfy> interesting inversion of principle :D
[23:14:15] <Connor> I've got at 4" on R8 I can use. :)
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[23:14:38] <PetefromTn_> how does the chuck attach to the shank?
[23:15:41] <Connor> The shank is part of a flat plate.. and the chuck bolts the flat plate. I think it has a boss too.. because I can't get it off even after removing the bolts..
[23:16:38] <PetefromTn_> so it is not a typical mount like for a boring head or something
[23:17:31] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-3-JAW-R8-COLLET-CHUCK-/290965241705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bee13f69
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[23:18:35] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-4-3-JAW-SELF-CENTERING-LATHE-CHUCK-R8-ARBOR-SHANK-TAPER-MOUNT-TIR-003-NEW-/300895867650
[23:18:39] <Connor> here you go.
[23:18:59] <Connor> Must be out of stock.. they have the price at 1134.95 ROFL
[23:19:16] <PetefromTn_> WOW
[23:19:22] <unfy> yeah i was a bit O_o
[23:19:35] <Connor> It's not that much.. it's like $99.00 or so..
[23:19:50] <PetefromTn_> I am sure
[23:19:57] <Tom_itx> is the R8 collet attached to a backplate?
[23:20:01] <PetefromTn_> probably 113.49
[23:20:01] <Tom_itx> or part of..
[23:20:28] <Connor> they jack the price up when out of stock instead of removing the listing.. I can't find it on normal site..
[23:20:32] <SpeedEvil> PetefromTn_: if they actually say they are out of stock, then they need to close the listing
[23:20:39] <SpeedEvil> More than 10 available / 36 sold
[23:20:48] <SpeedEvil> if they close the listing - they lose that '36 sold'
[23:20:49] <Connor> Tom_itx: The R8 shank IS part of the backplate..
[23:21:13] <Tom_itx> might be a cheap way to get a 3jaw for my little lathe
[23:21:30] <PetefromTn_> who cares it is a ridiculous price and I can't use it anyways hehe
[23:21:38] <Connor> I've got a 3" on the lathe.. 4" on the rotary table, and the R8 4"
[23:21:54] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-INCH-5C-MOUNT-FOR-3-4-JAW-SELF-CENTERING-LATHE-CHUCKS-3900-4703/231314095633?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D7de8a7a732b5438b8c3e87c0c020c72a%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331114009913&rt=nc
[23:22:05] <Connor> basically one of those.. except R8
[23:22:08] <Tom_itx> or use that as a beginning for a rotary table
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[23:24:05] <PetefromTn_> I can get a cat40 ER40 and use up to 1 3/16 accurately held
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[23:33:58] <PetefromTn_> http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/2014/12/02/several-students-hurt-in-accident-involving-2-buses/19790703/ Tragic accident in Knoxville.
[23:34:13] <Connor> up. 2 kids and 1 adult dead
[23:34:16] <Connor> err. yup..
[23:42:08] <unfy> :(
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