#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-11-12

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[02:58:13] <taiden> hi all
[02:58:39] <taiden> aside from the "SuperPID" controller, has anyone had luck setting up some kind of PID control for spindle speed with LinuxCNC?
[03:01:20] <os1r1s> taiden: I'm using a superpid, albeit not with linuxcnc
[03:01:32] <os1r1s> taiden: Its pretty easy to control though. I'm sure it would work
[03:02:35] <pcw_home> Linuxcnc can easily control spindle speed using PID
[03:03:39] <pcw_home> Typically a velocity loop uses just P and I (and FF0)
[03:03:43] <os1r1s> pcw_home: The superpid does the speed control portion. He can interface to it via PWM or an analog signal if memory serves
[03:04:00] <os1r1s> pcw_home: Its a bit like a kbic control.
[03:04:05] <LeelooMinai> I think 7i76 has spindle control output
[03:04:20] <LeelooMinai> So I guess no "superPID" is required for that case (?)
[03:04:32] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: I don't think the 7i76 controls the mains
[03:04:46] <os1r1s> AC mains to vary the spindle speed
[03:04:58] <os1r1s> I could be wrong ...
[03:05:39] <taiden> the "spindle" im using is a Hitachi m12vc router
[03:06:04] <taiden> i'd love to have pid control for it, but $180 and 3 week lead time is no bueno
[03:06:26] <LeelooMinai> I think it can act as digital potentiometer - so as long as spindle speed can be controlled this way, it would work.
[03:06:38] <pcw_home> No SuperPID is needed with linuxcnc, but of course some kind of motor drive is required
[03:06:52] <LeelooMinai> As for AC spindles - they require VFDs anyways, no?
[03:06:55] <pcw_home> (LinuxCNC can do the PID just fine)
[03:07:00] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: Thats exactly what he would need to do
[03:07:04] <pcw_home> yep
[03:07:05] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: PWM it
[03:07:41] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, not sure what that SuperPID really does...
[03:07:47] <pcw_home> Typically VFDs have analog 0-10V inputs
[03:08:19] <taiden> "SuperPID" just takes frequency input from some kind of optical sensor for spindle RPM and then adjusts PWM frequency to the motor to match
[03:08:33] <taiden> uses PID logic to maintain RPM under changes in spindle load
[03:08:35] <os1r1s> taiden: No, it also flips the AC on and off
[03:08:42] <pcw_home> if you have a VFD you dont need a separate controller
[03:08:47] <os1r1s> taiden: Which is what linuxcnc needs an external controller to do
[03:09:00] <LeelooMinai> A, I just looked at it - it has some kind of triac or whatever to do switching
[03:09:27] <pcw_home> what kind of spindle are you driving?
[03:09:34] <taiden> no VFD, it's a Hitachi m12vc router
[03:09:54] <LeelooMinai> taiden: Does it have manual speed control knob?
[03:10:06] <taiden> Yep
[03:10:30] <LeelooMinai> I think you could hack into the knob and interface it with something like what 7i76 has
[03:10:49] <LeelooMinai> Because knob will be just a potentiometer
[03:11:41] <LeelooMinai> But you would also need some kind of feedback, but that's rather easy to do
[03:12:17] <XXCoder> someone installed windows 95 on icrap 6
[03:12:35] <XXCoder> http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/10/chinese-programmer-sticks-windows-95-on-an-iphone-6-plus/
[03:13:16] <XXCoder> emulator but still jeez lol
[03:13:26] <XXCoder> we probably will have new installs in year 2095
[03:14:03] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: Its meant for CNC control. You don't need to hack it
[03:14:22] <LeelooMinai> os1r1s: What, the router?
[03:14:31] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: The superpid
[03:14:39] <LeelooMinai> I was talking about the router
[03:14:42] <taiden> i think he was tlaking about hackng thr router knob
[03:14:47] <os1r1s> Ahh, ok
[03:14:49] <pcw_home> but you dont need it either(linuxCNC is happy doing PID)
[03:14:54] <LeelooMinai> I am she btw
[03:15:04] <taiden> my mistake, apologies
[03:15:20] <os1r1s> taiden: Here is mine for reference ... http://gallery.mounicou.com/photos/i-bh5ccft/0/L/i-bh5ccft-L.jpg
[03:15:26] <LeelooMinai> I googled the router - it's just, well, a hand router like any
[03:15:43] <os1r1s> I have it controlling a bosch colt router
[03:16:27] <taiden> pcw_home: bring in RPM signal via optical sensor and output spindle on/off with PID logic?
[03:17:02] <taiden> i wondered if HAL could do this somehow
[03:18:00] <LeelooMinai> I just wander if the speed by potentiometer on the router like this would not work much better than just brute force pwm
[03:18:03] <os1r1s> taiden: If you wire up a triac I'm sure you could
[03:18:06] <LeelooMinai> wonder*
[03:18:29] <taiden> usually the routers have their own soft start circuits etc
[03:18:43] <taiden> i suspect you wouldn't get the PID type feedback
[03:18:53] <taiden> which is half of its value IMO
[03:19:10] <os1r1s> taiden: The pid would be done in linuxcnc
[03:19:10] <LeelooMinai> PWM could mess the router's own circuits operation
[03:19:27] <taiden> its just a standard brushed motor
[03:19:42] <os1r1s> The triac is just a fast mosfet for controlling the power to it. The feedback loop would be done in linuxcnc
[03:20:11] <LeelooMinai> I mean something like this: "Electronic speed control, maintains constant RPMs even as load varies" <- this will probably fight PWM anyways
[03:20:15] <taiden> anyway PWM is probably not necessary
[03:20:42] <LeelooMinai> (that's from that Hitachi router)
[03:20:42] <taiden> just have it turn on when below target RPM and off when above target RPM
[03:21:33] <pcw_home> Yes you can do PID speed control on HAL so a dumb controler is fine for linuxCNC
[03:22:18] <pcw_home> (I suspect the SuperPID is made for Mach that has no real time control capabilities)
[03:22:59] <taiden> i mean, i have a solid state relay running the router
[03:23:21] <taiden> could I just bring in spindle frequency and wire it up in software easily?
[03:23:22] <LeelooMinai> Brutal imho:)
[03:23:57] <os1r1s> pcw_home: I think you are missing the idea that it is made to control a AC based handheld router. You still need a circuit to do that.
[03:24:02] <pcw_home> No because SSRs typically dont to phase control
[03:24:29] <pcw_home> Sure but no need to pay for the PID part
[03:24:46] <LeelooMinai> I don't see wpm -> relay -> router ending well
[03:24:51] <taiden> it's just a brushed ac motor :P you just plug it into the wall or switch it with a relay :)
[03:25:09] <os1r1s> taiden: A triac is made to switch on and off more frequently than a relay
[03:25:21] <os1r1s> So if you don't care that much about the exact speed, I'm sure a relay is ok
[03:25:32] <LeelooMinai> It can also detect zreo-crossing, which is good
[03:25:54] <os1r1s> But 2000 RPM swings up and down could be a problem
[03:26:05] <taiden> triacs are much faster than solid state relay?
[03:26:24] <LeelooMinai> That's pretty much same technology
[03:26:32] <taiden> that's what i thought
[03:26:45] <taiden> i thought SSRs were used for high frequency switching in many applications
[03:26:46] <os1r1s> LeelooMinai: I didn't think it was the same
[03:26:49] <pcw_home> SSRs use Triacs (or SCRs)
[03:27:10] <taiden> so yeah. spindle out to SSR to router
[03:27:31] <taiden> spindle rpm in via optical sensor aimed at spindle with white paint on half of it
[03:27:34] <os1r1s> I didn't realize an SSR used triacs internally
[03:28:01] <LeelooMinai> That's the "solid state" part - semiconductors basically
[03:28:10] <taiden> i'm fuzzy on how i would bring the frequency in, and im fuzzy on how i'd get linuxcnc to control the RPM at that point
[03:28:42] <LeelooMinai> Frequency in is just pulses into the linuxcnc
[03:28:57] <LeelooMinai> Using whatever means you have
[03:29:15] <LeelooMinai> Probably some optical sensor is easiest
[03:29:37] <taiden> will linuxcnc be able to handle stuff up to 24,000 hz?
[03:29:45] <taiden> stuff meaning pulse frequency
[03:29:54] <LeelooMinai> I think that depends on the hardware
[03:30:15] <taiden> i wonder if there is an IC to convert frequency to 0-5v. there must be
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[03:30:43] <LeelooMinai> If you have something like mesa/fpga it's not really necessary:)
[03:30:58] <taiden> what's fpga?
[03:31:44] <LeelooMinai> It's a type of IC that is pretty good at fast digital processing of signals (and is programmable hardware-wise)
[03:31:57] <pcw_home> Is this for a router type (universal motor) spindle or an AC spindle?
[03:32:49] <taiden> router
[03:32:57] <taiden> it's a hitachi m12vc router
[03:33:00] <LeelooMinai> http://www.jccayer.com/product.php?productid=15079
[03:33:09] <LeelooMinai> It's just normal router - has knob speed control
[03:33:30] <zeeshan|2> one eyed monster
[03:33:42] <taiden> totally goofy looking
[03:33:45] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[03:33:58] <zeeshan|2> im such a tard
[03:34:03] <zeeshan|2> i mounted everythiing on my panel
[03:34:10] <zeeshan|2> and i totally forgot to leave a provision for a hd
[03:34:19] <zeeshan|2> now i have to remove everything
[03:34:20] <taiden> pics?
[03:34:21] <zeeshan|2> to drill hole
[03:34:24] <zeeshan|2> drill holes
[03:34:25] <zeeshan|2> lol
[03:34:37] <zeeshan|2> ill post some in an hour :P
[03:34:39] <zeeshan|2> after im done
[03:34:51] <LeelooMinai> Glue an SDD with double-tape to the side and done:)
[03:35:03] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:35:46] <taiden> i'll probably just grab the superpid
[03:36:02] <taiden> was hoping there was something well known for this application
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[03:36:35] <pcw_home> the KBIC controllers are often used
[03:38:26] <taiden> that's for DC motors?
[03:38:44] <pcw_home> yes or AC/DC
[03:40:35] <taiden> so if it's brushed
[03:40:42] <taiden> does that make it a universal motor?
[03:40:47] <pcw_home> (it runs them with DC which is more efficient)
[03:40:53] <pcw_home> Yep
[03:40:59] <taiden> learn something new every day
[03:41:11] <taiden> so i could just hook this thing up to a dc power supply and it would run?
[03:41:28] <taiden> i wonder if that's what the superpid does
[03:41:54] <taiden> just a basic dc motor controller with hobby price tag
[03:42:04] <pcw_home> I think it needs AC power
[03:42:33] <taiden> my brain is trying to sift through circuits class
[03:43:05] <taiden> how can the motor run on dc but need ac power?
[03:43:24] <pcw_home> you might be able to bring the internal speed controls POT wires out (careful they are hot)
[03:44:07] <pcw_home> (the routers built in control)
[03:48:21] <pcw_home> the KBIC controllers need AC since they use SCRs (and you have to reverse the current of at least drop current to 0 to turn a SCR off)
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[06:09:29] <zeeshan|2> slowly getting there
[06:10:05] <zeeshan|2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15768927021/
[06:10:10] <zeeshan|2> is there any way to hold down pci cards
[06:10:16] <zeeshan|2> without making a bracket
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[06:21:28] <Connor> I would attach a L l Shaped bracket across the top of them to the side panel
[06:21:54] <Connor> What are those cards next to the 7i77 ?
[06:22:01] <zeeshan|2> interpolators
[06:25:44] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if the tachogen signal
[06:25:46] <zeeshan|2> is noisy
[06:25:52] <zeeshan|2> tachometer
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[06:40:53] <Computer_Barf> does pneumatic power drawbars rotate the drawbar?
[06:41:50] <Computer_Barf> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/222190-high-tension-power-drawbar-using-3in-cylinder-4.html
[06:42:07] <Computer_Barf> i see stuff like this, but i dont see how the rotational force happens.
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[07:26:02] <archivist> Computer_Barf, usually there is a gripper, no rotation needed
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[07:27:21] <archivist> instead of threading into the tooling with the drawbar there is an inserted stud
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[07:32:25] <Computer_Barf> so all it has to do is push down?
[07:39:22] <Computer_Barf> archivist: ok i saw a cross section picture of a gripper. typically does it push down the drawbar to grip or release?
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[07:43:21] <archivist> Computer_Barf, depends on design usually pushes down to release, there being a stack of belville springs to return
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[07:46:04] <Deejay> moin
[07:47:18] <Computer_Barf> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/222190-high-tension-power-drawbar-using-3in-cylinder-4.html
[07:47:49] <Computer_Barf> this is the one ive been looking at.. but mostly ive been trying to grasp the basic mechanics of how draw bars work
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[07:49:34] <archivist> I thought I had something in my bookmarks suitable
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[07:54:52] <archivist> ah found one http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2014/06/11/ultimate-benchtop-cnc-mini-mill-part-7-spindle-drawbar-and-toolchanger/
[07:55:18] <archivist> you can see the various parts in the 3d cut away
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[11:19:32] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[11:25:41] <archivist> moaning
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[13:03:08] * jthornton can at least draw a line in opengl now
[13:03:15] <jthornton> screw cairo
[13:05:12] <archivist> which cairo :)
[13:06:02] <jthornton> http://cairographics.org/
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[13:07:30] <archivist> iirc one of the windows versions was called cairo too
[13:09:06] <jthornton> ah, I quit upgrading my windoze machines
[13:14:17] <Tom_itx> haha
[13:14:35] <Tom_itx> can't figure it out ehh?
[13:14:52] <archivist> no one can figure out win 8 !
[13:15:12] <Tom_itx> that was by design
[13:15:47] <archivist> I just cannot understand how it got shipped
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[13:16:01] <Tom_itx> just like ACA
[13:17:58] <Tom_itx> 17蚌
[13:18:03] * Tom_itx shivers a bit
[13:20:07] <jthornton> hmm opengl can't draw an arc you have to draw it with lines
[13:21:17] <Tom_itx> i wonder if open_scad used that. it looks the same way
[13:21:29] <Tom_itx> everything is triangles in it
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[13:25:25] <jthornton> http://slabode.exofire.net/circle_draw.shtml
[13:26:08] <archivist> who has hidden my draw of clock taper pins?
[13:29:31] <Tom_itx> jthornton, maybe you should look at their source: http://www.openscad.org/
[13:29:39] <Tom_itx> sounds quite similar
[13:30:11] <Tom_itx> with that said... i hated it
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[14:51:10] <mozmck> most cad type things use opengl I think.
[14:53:04] <mozmck> jthornton: what are you doing with opengl? I've done some in it, but it is a little mind boggling. All the 1.x stuff the tutorials show is now deprecated, but that seems relative since only the very newest video cards support the newest opengl
[14:54:49] <JT-Shop> mozmck, I'm reading in a dxf file and wanting to display it... mostly for learning how
[14:55:01] <mozmck> so if you want something to run on most everything, you have to use the "old" version which they say is deprecated and not to use! at least from what I read...
[14:55:55] <mozmck> I see. It is interesting stuff. I had to model hollow pipes in 3D and manipulate them for a project.
[15:00:04] <JT-Shop> this is much simpler just 2d lines
[15:03:27] <CaptHindsight> http://bunniefoo.com/novena/pvt2_shoot/pvt-case-inside_sm.jpg how quickly could the bottom be machined in aluminum? The sides would be a separate part.
[15:05:22] <CaptHindsight> I don't see why anyone would invest in tooling to only injection mold a few thousand
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[15:21:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_to_deploy_lander_on_12_November -40 minutes to confirmation if it landed
[15:21:50] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i suspect Bunnies case is in this .stp file http://bunniefoo.com/novena/pvt1_release/novena-mechassy-dvt06.stp.zip
[15:22:29] <tjtr33> i didnt load tools to view it
[15:23:06] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: it wouldn't need to be an exact copy, it's not that complicated
[15:23:19] <Jymmm> One small step for man, one giant leap for comet kind!
[15:23:54] <tjtr33> then fab it up , sheet material, pem nuts
[15:24:09] <CaptHindsight> pretty much
[15:24:45] <tjtr33> i like his work, he's not just a hobbyist, he's in business
[15:25:08] <CaptHindsight> it just seems like a large expense for so few parts and for such a simple case
[15:25:38] <tjtr33> yah, menards had 7" android tablets for 29$ this week
[15:25:59] <JT-Shop> menards?
[15:26:03] <tjtr33> yah
[15:26:10] <Jymmm> tjtr33: dual core and lousy display more than likely
[15:26:15] <CaptHindsight> yup, they don't much to make anymore
[15:26:19] <tjtr33> i think they had like 4 in illinois, everyone was 'out'
[15:26:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: it's a hardware store, like Ace or True Value
[15:26:29] <JT-Shop> yea we have one
[15:26:52] <CaptHindsight> only Home Depot size
[15:27:02] <JT-Shop> never seen the computer section
[15:27:16] <JT-Shop> the tablet is home depot size?
[15:27:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah, next to the plywood sheets
[15:27:46] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, does linuxcnc's minigl port help your arc drawing? ( Jepler and Cradek wrote it i think )
[15:27:48] <CaptHindsight> they carry seasonal items
[15:28:39] <JT-Shop> tjtr33, I've not looked at it or knew what it was LOL
[15:28:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.menards.com/main/p-2313725-c-6299.htm maybe this one?
[15:29:08] <Jymmm> 4.3'' screen
[15:29:14] <CaptHindsight> $13.84 after Sale Price & Mail-In Rebate
[15:29:23] <tjtr33> its incredibly obfuscated, alias within alias, but it does all the axis rendering ( i _think_ )
[15:29:30] <Jymmm> sound like a broken cellphone to me
[15:29:39] <Jymmm> or a celless tablet
[15:29:50] <Jymmm> cellless??
[15:30:02] <CaptHindsight> remember when they were called PDA's?
[15:30:12] <Jymmm> lol, yes, sadly
[15:30:19] <Jymmm> and owned one too
[15:30:24] <Jymmm> Palm Pilot
[15:31:24] <Jymmm> Hell, my smarthone is bigger than that thing
[15:31:44] <Jymmm> for a 4.3" display, it sure does have a lot of margin
[15:31:54] <tjtr33> menards deal was only last Fri morning, and was fakey in that there were very few units scattered across the upper midwest
[15:32:05] <tjtr33> was 7inch http://bunniefoo.com/novena/pvt1_release/novena-mechassy-dvt06.stp.zip
[15:32:15] <CaptHindsight> http://armdevices.net/2013/09/15/30-allwinner-a13-7-android-tablet-factory-tour-zxs-zhixingsheng/
[15:32:15] <Jymmm> lost leader to get you in the store pre-blackfriday
[15:32:15] <tjtr33> even the flyer pages have been wiped
[15:32:30] * JT-Shop has problems following obfuscated code
[15:32:50] <tjtr33> oops the menards 7" androis was http://slickdeals.net/f/7323332-d2-713g-7-android-tablet-menards-39-99-or-29-99-ar-store-credit-ymmv
[15:34:34] <Jymmm> 1.0 GHz, Single Core
[15:34:39] <Jymmm> OUCH
[15:34:56] <tjtr33> yah JB4.1 etc old, just cheap
[15:35:07] <Jymmm> SINGLE core,
[15:36:16] <Jymmm> You couldn't even surf on it
[15:36:34] <zeeshan|2> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=129
[15:36:37] <zeeshan|2> is there a card like this
[15:36:38] <Jymmm> well, maybe in 1989 you could =)
[15:36:40] <zeeshan|2> that can handle 3 sensors?
[15:36:55] <zeeshan|2> for full quadrature
[15:40:29] <Jymmm> http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/172707/ONSEMI/74ACT14.html
[15:40:49] <zeeshan|2> i dont know microerlectronics
[15:40:53] <zeeshan|2> i need something already made
[15:41:21] <Jymmm> That's the chip used on that thing
[15:41:28] <Jymmm> just fyi
[15:42:22] <zeeshan|2> the photon coupled interruptor
[15:42:27] <zeeshan|2> that outputs a sine wave right?
[15:42:50] <zeeshan|2> and that chip you posted the datasheet about converts it to TTL?
[15:43:21] <CaptHindsight> the dual core ARM cortex A8 SOC's from Allwinner and Rockchip are ~$6
[15:44:18] <CaptHindsight> sorry A9's
[15:45:23] <CaptHindsight> the new 4 and 8 core A15's are ~$20 right now and will drop to ~$6 next year
[15:45:40] <CaptHindsight> so the Chinese ARM soc's are cheap
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[15:46:54] <zeeshan|2> so i have six encoder inputs on the 7i77
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[15:47:45] <tjtr33> hehe connect those to encoders! not to slow ho-made interruptors
[15:48:03] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: but i have no encoder @ the spindle
[15:48:05] <zeeshan|2> i need to buy one
[15:48:22] <zeeshan|2> thats why im wondering what kind of encoder i should buy so that i can wire it directly to the mesa
[15:48:33] <zeeshan|2> its for the spindle so there is already a trigger wheel on there
[15:48:39] <zeeshan|2> but only 1 sensor..
[15:48:43] <zeeshan|2> which is being used to detect speed
[15:48:53] <zeeshan|2> i want to make it full quadrature so i can have rigid tapping inthe future
[15:50:13] <Tecan> quadrature... hmmmm
[15:50:50] <renesis> tecan: square wave pair 90deg out of phase
[15:50:57] <Tecan> linuxcnc is the only place i can go on irc and feel like a total retard
[15:51:11] <Tecan> its kinda nice
[15:51:15] <zeeshan|2> its just a esnsor
[15:51:25] <renesis> you can use it to tell direction along with speed
[15:51:25] <zeeshan|2> that lets you detect what speed the spindle is spinning at
[15:51:28] <zeeshan|2> and direction
[15:51:34] <renesis> well, its a signal type but close enough
[15:51:48] <zeeshan|2> you still nbeed another sensor
[15:51:49] <zeeshan|2> for index pulse
[15:52:02] <zeeshan|2> which tells the "starting" position of the spindle
[15:52:48] <zeeshan|2> hmm
[15:52:52] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: No tapping for you, NEXT! s/Thread Nazi
[15:52:55] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if i can just use the single sensor as is..
[15:53:01] <zeeshan|2> and use the reverse/fwd signal from the vfd
[15:53:04] <zeeshan|2> :D
[15:53:35] <archivist> you need a proper encoder for tapping and hobbing on the spindle
[15:53:42] <zeeshan|2> yes archivist
[15:53:51] <skunkworks> we don
[15:53:54] <skunkworks> we don'
[15:54:00] <skunkworks> we don't joke about that...
[15:54:12] <tjtr33> these include some linuxcnc hacks to add encoders to spindles for rigid tapping http://goo.gl/BfCDFy
[15:54:29] <renesis> you can use non indexing for radius corrected speed
[15:54:31] <zeeshan|2> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/encoder-007.jpg
[15:54:35] <renesis> not totally useless
[15:54:36] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking of somethinglike this
[15:54:49] <zeeshan|2> but doesnt those sensors output an analog signal?
[15:54:55] <zeeshan|2> that'll need to be somehow converted to square wave
[15:55:05] <renesis> does that fuckup when you open the cabinet?
[15:55:06] <zeeshan|2> *be
[15:55:33] <archivist> zeeshan|2, should be ok as is if the right optos are used
[15:55:39] <renesis> everything outputs an analog signal, you could schmitt trigger it if you want to square it off
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[15:55:54] <zeeshan|2> archivist i want to use that c3 card
[15:55:58] <zeeshan|2> but the problem is it means igotta buy 3
[15:56:00] <archivist> some optos have internal schmitt
[15:56:01] <renesis> schmitt trigger = comparator input gate
[15:56:07] <zeeshan|2> and thats okay, i just hate how ill have to mount 3 of them!!
[15:56:09] <zeeshan|2> ohhh!
[15:56:24] <zeeshan|2> so they'll output 5v square wave
[15:56:30] <tjtr33> thats not outputting analog, just sloppy edged square wave. real encoders will snap the edges squar-er yes schmidts
[15:56:38] <archivist> aw 3 how hard....get on with it!
[15:56:40] <renesis> everything is analog
[15:56:56] <zeeshan|2> so cmon experts
[15:57:02] <tjtr33> digital shoes :)
[15:57:04] <zeeshan|2> recommend me an opto that outputs a nice square wave!
[15:57:12] <zeeshan|2> and can handle 6000 rpm!
[15:57:16] <renesis> ...
[15:57:33] <renesis> it depends how you lead them, depends on the speed, depends on the detector distance and ambient light
[15:57:40] <renesis> load them
[15:57:51] <zeeshan|2> archivist: werent you using a fancy encoder :D
[15:57:58] <renesis> and 'how square' depends on the destination input
[15:58:08] <archivist> my starturn uses that method http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_08_04_starturn_encoder/IMG_1631.JPG
[15:58:18] <renesis> if youre destination is an opto with schmitts on the other side, a sine wave is prob square enough
[15:58:18] <zeeshan|2> 3 optos?
[15:58:20] <zeeshan|2> er 4?
[15:58:33] * zeeshan|2 cant tell
[15:58:36] <renesis> you shouldnt need more than 3
[15:58:38] <archivist> but that is speed limited by the parallel port
[15:58:53] <renesis> two on the main encoder wheel to do the 90deg phase diff and one for an index pulse
[15:59:03] <zeeshan|2> archivist: what encoder is that
[15:59:12] <archivist> separates
[15:59:42] <archivist> it only does screw cutting because A and index only
[16:00:00] <archivist> making another for the 5 axis
[16:00:18] <zeeshan|2> this cnc stuff is making me go crazy
[16:00:25] <zeeshan|2> i've literally considered 23149082093218 signals
[16:00:28] <zeeshan|2> power distribution
[16:00:39] <zeeshan|2> before i go to bed i try to recall if i forgot anything haha
[16:00:50] <archivist> hobbing requires direction too
[16:00:54] <zeeshan|2> yes
[16:00:56] <zeeshan|2> thats important to me
[16:01:35] <archivist> I used a 600 line ABZ encoder on the barber colman
[16:02:23] <zeeshan|2> theres 3 categories i see on digikey
[16:02:32] <zeeshan|2> "photo detectors" "photinterruptors" "reflective"
[16:02:39] <zeeshan|2> im assuming with a trigger wheel i'd want interruptor?
[16:02:49] <zeeshan|2> cause the light beam gets interrupted :d
[16:02:59] <archivist> yes
[16:03:22] <zeeshan|2> okay this is the only time digikey actually doesnt spit out 129032308932
[16:03:25] <zeeshan|2> entries.
[16:03:30] <zeeshan|2> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/OPB950Z/365-1787-ND/1637569
[16:03:31] <renesis> thats usually a bad thing
[16:03:42] <renesis> means possible lead time and availability issues =(
[16:04:03] <zeeshan|2> sigh i dont see mounting points
[16:04:38] <renesis> nice, digital output
[16:04:43] <archivist> omron make some iirc
[16:05:11] <zeeshan|2> these are so cheap
[16:05:12] <zeeshan|2> lol
[16:05:23] <zeeshan|2> the hell did i buy a c3 card for my lathe for
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[16:06:19] <renesis> haha @ detector diode spec'd at 3A pulse
[16:06:44] <renesis> def not fuckin around
[16:07:02] <tjtr33> do you already have that slotted disk? might be harder to buy than the interrupter
[16:07:25] <zeeshan|2> tjtr33: yes thers already a slot disk on the spindle
[16:07:25] <renesis> would think he could make that
[16:07:34] <zeeshan|2> i need to modify it to have index
[16:07:47] <zeeshan|2> and i guess a chan b.
[16:08:11] <renesis> chan B you just need to mount the encoders with correct offset
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[16:08:32] <renesis> not sure he gets that yet
[16:08:33] <jdh> you can get them off ebay, dx, amazon, etc. already mounted, with mounting points anf filtering.
[16:08:44] <zeeshan|2> jdh what do i look for
[16:08:47] <tjtr33> and add the singularity spock! ( for index)
[16:09:16] <renesis> tjtr33: thst just seems like a drill or filing job if its not included, heh
[16:09:34] <tjtr33> yep a notch could do it
[16:09:36] <skunkworks> emcos... http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/oldencoder.JPG
[16:09:38] <renesis> comet lander didnt splode
[16:09:49] <skunkworks> (single channel with index)
[16:09:52] <tjtr33> nor splat
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[16:11:24] <tjtr33> drilled slots, cool
[16:11:46] <skunkworks> I would guess punched... that is factory
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[16:12:18] <renesis> seems pretty hack for a factory part, heheh
[16:12:27] <tjtr33> oh i though t you mad eit with an old saw blade
[16:12:51] <skunkworks> this is also factory.. (talking of hack...) http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/newencoder.JPG
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[16:13:30] <renesis> ha, punched and then a guy with a cutoff wheel
[16:13:42] <jdh> Z: somethign liek: http://www.ebay.com/itm/181460158093
[16:14:04] <skunkworks> the newer lathes had a longer index pulse..
[16:16:34] <renesis> they prob change the edge direction they look for depending on direction?
[16:16:42] <renesis> hopefully
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[16:17:53] <skunkworks> the spindle doesn't reverse on these lathes
[16:18:38] <archivist> probe landed!
[16:19:18] <zeeshan|2> jdh so cheap
[16:19:18] <zeeshan|2> haha
[16:19:22] <zeeshan|2> nice
[16:19:32] <jdh> there are lots of others, different size slots
[16:19:42] <zeeshan|2> do any have the pcb enclosed
[16:20:55] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/120798765436
[16:21:17] * zeeshan|2 buy something already made!!
[16:21:18] <zeeshan|2> :P
[16:21:23] <zeeshan|2> i'm already making enough :(
[16:21:32] <zeeshan|2> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HOA2005-001/480-1942-ND/679353
[16:21:32] <renesis> skunkworks: i guess that makes it easy
[16:21:35] <zeeshan|2> im kinda digging this sensor
[16:21:42] <zeeshan|2> but i dont see why theres 5 wires coming out of it
[16:21:44] <zeeshan|2> and not just 3
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[16:22:29] <jdh> 4 wires.
[16:22:39] <zeeshan|2> i thought there were 3
[16:22:43] <zeeshan|2> vcc gnd and output
[16:22:55] <zeeshan|2> oh could be differential output
[16:22:55] <jdh> your digi link is 2 for led, to for photo
[16:22:58] <renesis> it has the detector LED broken out to its own pins
[16:23:29] <renesis> you can tie it to VCC and gnd with an external resistor in series
[16:24:05] <jdh> that will bounce on the edges without some filtering
[16:24:12] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[16:24:48] <jdh> http://amzn.com/B00EERJDY4
[16:25:08] <zeeshan|2> i really wantr that mounting style
[16:25:10] <zeeshan|2> of that one you posted
[16:25:13] <zeeshan|2> just the pcb enclosed
[16:25:17] <zeeshan|2> and hopefully a spec on the response time
[16:25:30] <zeeshan|2> if it outputs differential, that would be king
[16:25:36] * zeeshan|2 is asking for too much
[16:25:45] <renesis> hot glue = enclosed pcb
[16:26:07] <pcw_home> launch tube pressure drop?
[16:26:08] <renesis> i like to use masking tape as a potting mold
[16:26:27] <jdh> heh, no pressure drop on your launch tubes?
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[16:26:56] <renesis> launch tube needs moar fiber
[16:28:28] <jdh> oh, that digi one does have a schmitt. should be fine
[16:28:41] <zeeshan|2> why are there 5 wires again?
[16:28:42] <zeeshan|2> 2 for led
[16:28:54] <zeeshan|2> for photointerruptor
[16:28:59] <zeeshan|2> whats the 5th
[16:29:14] <zeeshan|2> in the diagram i see
[16:29:19] <zeeshan|2> vcc, vo gnd anode cathode
[16:29:27] <zeeshan|2> "whats the signal" wire
[16:29:28] <zeeshan|2> :D
[16:29:36] <renesis> ...
[16:29:39] <jdh> Vo
[16:29:48] <renesis> two are for the emitter LED
[16:29:48] <zeeshan|2> so its a single ended output
[16:30:08] <zeeshan|2> okay thats a bit lame
[16:30:14] <zeeshan|2> cause that means im going to need a resistor externally
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[16:30:18] <zeeshan|2> for the led.
[16:30:22] <renesis> its common emitter with an internal 10k pullup
[16:30:50] <renesis> heheh, he finally figured it out by himself
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[16:31:35] <jdh> taht one looks more robust than the cheap one, but costs 4x as much
[16:31:41] <zeeshan|2> thjats okay
[16:31:51] <zeeshan|2> for me ease of use is more important
[16:31:58] <zeeshan|2> i just want to bolt it in and be done with it
[16:32:00] <jdh> yeah, some of us have to work to buy stuff though.
[16:32:13] <zeeshan|2> i work too
[16:32:15] <zeeshan|2> whats your point
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[16:34:17] <zeeshan|2> it really looks like all these fancy sensors
[16:34:23] <zeeshan|2> require an external supply for the led
[16:34:25] <zeeshan|2> sigh
[16:34:58] <renesis> so you can adjust emitter intensity
[16:36:36] <renesis> youre probably gonna want external pullups for em immunity, too
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[16:37:23] <jdh> or get the cheap chinese ones and pot them
[16:37:46] <renesis> theyre like $3/ea?
[16:38:01] <zeeshan|2> are you talking to renesis
[16:38:14] <zeeshan|2> has he been yapping
[16:38:26] <renesis> $4.50
[16:39:48] <renesis> i dont think he needs the wheels, tho
[16:40:45] <zeeshan|2> my search has failed
[16:40:59] <zeeshan|2> i have concluded no one makes a nice differential output optical encoder
[16:41:05] <zeeshan|2> at least on digikey
[16:41:24] <zeeshan|2> and they all need an external supply for the emitter
[16:41:27] <zeeshan|2> w some sort of resistor
[16:41:30] <renesis> $1 RRIO opamp to make one
[16:41:47] <renesis> but three resistors is too much drama, so...
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[17:13:56] <Rab> zeeshan|2, beep
[17:14:00] <zeeshan|2> hi
[17:15:16] <Rab> zeeshan|2, I think I found the root cause of my backlash problems. The anti-backlash nut had fallen off, and was hanging out at the far end of the lead screw: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/probacklash.jpg
[17:15:25] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[17:15:29] <zeeshan|2> whoops :D
[17:15:40] <zeeshan|2> i really dig those screws
[17:15:43] <zeeshan|2> they look cool
[17:16:01] <Rab> Kind of impressed that it was holding .005, in retrospect. :P
[17:16:14] <zeeshan|2> really good screws :D
[17:16:55] <Rab> They are good. But I think I have to fix this nut...I dunno what the thread profile is, or even who has 8-start nuts.
[17:19:01] <Rab> Nothing seems to be worn or broken. The collar in the middle screws onto the left nut, and the spring keeps tension. The right nut mates to the left nut, but it seems free to rotate out. I don't know how it's supposed to stay in place.
[17:21:16] <zeeshan|2> some sort of lock collar|?
[17:21:18] <Rab> This is the only 8 start, .5", 1 lead nut I can find...no idea if it's right for the threads: http://www.amazon.com/Nook-Thread-Plastic-Starts-Diameter/dp/B004ZNUUNA/
[17:22:43] <Rab> I'm going to remove the screw, remove and nest all the nut parts and reassemble, on the theory that crashing at some point caused it to skip a thread or something.
[17:23:09] <archivist> if it skips it is already buggered
[17:23:43] <Rab> That's what I was thinking. :(
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[17:24:30] <archivist> that can be remade on a linuxcnc screw cutting lathe with a bit of jiggery pokery
[17:25:16] <archivist> treat it as 8 separate threads with differing start points
[17:26:20] <Rab> Nothing like that kind of infrastructure around here that I know of, unless I can find a machine shop...I think final option might be to make an evannut out of delrin.
[17:26:44] <Rab> And if that doesn't work out, find a nice ballscrew.
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[17:26:59] <archivist> where are you anyway
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[17:28:56] <zeeshan|2> let me know if you cant find the nut
[17:29:01] <zeeshan|2> ill make you one on the cnc
[17:29:54] <zeeshan|2> acme threads right?
[17:30:03] <zeeshan|2> i has some acme inserts
[17:30:18] <archivist> does not look too acme to me
[17:30:19] <Rab> zeeshan|2, Austin TX.
[17:30:27] <zeeshan|2> Rab: ship!
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[17:30:49] <Rab> Yeah, I don't know what the thread profile might be. It definately doesn't look square.
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[17:31:09] <Rab> zeeshan|2, thanks g, I'll keep that in mind.
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[17:32:30] <archivist> try a thread gauge on it or better a microscope with angle measuring to get the V angle
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[17:57:24] <Tom_itx> might interest some of you: http://www.electronicproducts.com/Lighting/Light_Emitting_Diodes/Scientists_create_the_world_s_first_fully_functional_3D_printed_LED.aspx
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[18:42:06] <Computer_Barf> No one read the article about my fully unfunctional printed plastic LED. Fascists.
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[18:49:17] <CaptHindsight> sshhh don't tell them that they weren't first http://semiconwest.org/sites/semiconwest.org/files/6_William%20Ray_Nth%20Degree.pdf
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[19:09:23] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever seen a hot water heater leak (maybe 16 ounces), with it NOT coming from the drain valve nor the safety release valve?
[19:09:36] <Jymmm> nor the pipes
[19:10:01] <Jymmm> then just stop.
[19:10:14] <renesis> condensation?
[19:10:21] <Jymmm> No
[19:11:35] <Jymmm> I can see where it "sourced" from under the bottom of the tank, but that's just the outter shell.
[19:13:29] <renesis> rab: even nut just works because tight fit?
[19:13:35] <renesis> evan nut
[19:14:34] <renesis> is like split nut anti-backlash without the ability to adjust when worn
[19:17:19] <Rab> renesis, right. Apparently the nuts are inherently zero-backlash to start with, and wear very well, but I don't think there have exactly been controlled trials or anything.
[19:17:40] <renesis> yeah i would expect them work great at first
[19:18:12] <Rab> Apparently the metal screw wears before the plastic.
[19:18:13] <renesis> splitting than and putting it in some sort of compression clamp seems easy enough
[19:18:19] <renesis> what?
[19:18:25] <renesis> that doesnt make sense
[19:18:41] <renesis> its delrin on magic, its self lubricating partially because of how it wears
[19:18:47] <renesis> *delrin not magic
[19:19:23] <Rab> Beats me, just going by whatever nonsense people say online.
[19:20:21] <Rab> I have a tapped delrin leadnut on the Z-axis, and it's worn fine without any backlash...but that's one tiny datapoint.
[19:20:37] <jdh> but 100% of your samples are good.
[19:20:47] <Rab> yeah man
[19:20:51] <renesis> Z doesnt count, you dont usually need a backlash nut anyway because of the weight all on one side of the screw
[19:20:54] <renesis> gravity and all
[19:21:29] <Rab> renesis, I'm sure there's an opportunity for backlash when plunging into the material.
[19:21:58] <renesis> right, depends on load, which depends on material and tool and plunge rate
[19:22:08] <renesis> itll settle at the same point tho
[19:22:17] <Rab> Sure, you have a reasonable point.
[19:22:20] <renesis> and if you pass over the same spot again, itll take care of any issue
[19:23:04] <renesis> its not like its a non issue on the Z, but compared to the problems on the X and Y, it almost is
[19:23:29] <renesis> like, arguably if youre lifting your Z, youve exceeded the envelop of the machine and tool into that material
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[19:25:09] <renesis> rab: the same argument defeating gravity on Z could be made for exceeding the spring tension of the backlash nut
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[19:25:31] <zeeshan|2> yea if you have a puny little machine
[19:25:34] <zeeshan|2> then that would be true
[19:25:37] <renesis> backlash isnt the same loaded versus unloaded
[19:25:43] <zeeshan|2> 1" drill bit plunging down
[19:25:48] <zeeshan|2> will easily generate 300lb of force axially
[19:25:49] <Rab> renesis, supposedly delrin nuts are competitive with ballscrews for wear and accuracy until your load tests the ductility of the nut.
[19:25:52] <renesis> well, any machine given enough load
[19:26:02] <zeeshan|2> enough to lift the head and move it
[19:26:02] <Rab> But I haven't seen much information about wear characteristics.
[19:26:07] <renesis> rab: right but over time the delrin wears
[19:26:32] <Rab> renesis, if the nut costs literally nothing but a few minutes, it's a consumable. ;)
[19:26:34] <renesis> delrin works well because you can form it easily and get exact fit and its slippery, itll wear less, but itll still wear
[19:26:49] <renesis> right but if you split it and can tighten it, its servicable
[19:27:04] <Rab> Yeah, I think there's been some discussion of that.
[19:27:09] <renesis> would be interested if anyone is doing it this way
[19:27:27] <renesis> rab: taig does it with brass
[19:27:40] <Rab> I think I could probably make an anti-backlash nut with two nuts and some rigging.
[19:27:57] <renesis> sprung nut?
[19:28:01] <Rab> yeah
[19:28:12] <renesis> yeah theres lots of designs for that
[19:28:23] <renesis> its basically what your screw had at first
[19:28:45] <renesis> did one of the threaded bits split on yours?
[19:29:01] <Rab> Sure. The existing nuts are made from some kind of plastic.
[19:29:01] <renesis> seems like maybe a set screw or something fell out
[19:29:48] <Rab> I dunno, I'd think a collar but there's nothing like that. Nor are there particles of plastic I can identify as coming from the nuts.
[19:29:48] <renesis> metal and high tension springs will work well but itll wear the screw down, probably
[19:30:17] <renesis> so over time the screw will wear down more where you do work, if your backlash solution is good maybe compensates for that anyway
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[19:30:48] <renesis> rab: yeah weird i dont get how one is mated to the other
[19:31:05] <Rab> There's no telling how much wear was already on these parts. They seem well-loved. I should probably start looking for a ballscrew.
[19:31:34] <renesis> the bearings one the end(s) seems okay?
[19:32:34] <renesis> would just try delrin nut before dropping lots of money on ballscrew setup
[19:33:06] <Rab> The end bearings seem ghetto...everything is ghetto.
[19:33:13] <renesis> split-clamped delrin nut would be a permanent solution but it might be problematic if the screw is unevenly worn
[19:33:22] <renesis> a normal unsplit delrin nut will have problems, too
[19:33:51] <Rab> Oh, HAHA: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/parts07.jpg
[19:34:18] <Rab> The brown collar is the anti-backlash nut. It's always been broken, I just didn't notice because the leadnut was mounted under the table!
[19:34:34] <Rab> That's a pic from the initial pile of parts.
[19:34:35] <renesis> that encoder is a limit switch?
[19:34:38] <Rab> yah
[19:34:46] <Rab> I used microswitches.
[19:35:19] <renesis> bug resistant
[19:36:10] <renesis> rab: i guess see if theres a pin or set screw supposed to keep the ywo halves of the nut mated
[19:36:17] <renesis> two
[19:36:33] <Rab> renesis, maybe something broke off before the parts came my way.
[19:36:49] <renesis> probably, but maybe easy fix
[19:36:51] <zeeshan|2> hi rab
[19:36:57] <Rab> zeeshan|2, hey!
[19:36:59] <zeeshan|2> you dont need that optical interruptor
[19:37:00] <zeeshan|2> send it to me
[19:37:01] <zeeshan|2> !
[19:37:13] <Rab> zeeshan|2, those things grow on trees.
[19:37:17] <zeeshan|2> lol
[19:37:22] <renesis> open some mice
[19:37:24] <zeeshan|2> rab i cant find one with differential output 5v
[19:37:27] <zeeshan|2> ttl
[19:37:33] <Rab> You can get them from copiers, printers, etc etc.
[19:37:45] <Rab> You're right that I don't need it.
[19:37:46] <renesis> differential would just make the quadrature part confusing =(
[19:37:57] <zeeshan|2> renesis: the 7i77
[19:38:01] <zeeshan|2> takes a differential or single ended input
[19:38:05] <zeeshan|2> i like differential
[19:38:08] <zeeshan|2> especially for 5v signals
[19:38:12] <renesis> weve been over this
[19:38:21] <zeeshan|2> dont have to worry about noise as much
[19:38:24] <zeeshan|2> we have?
[19:38:33] <renesis> well you prob had me on ignore
[19:38:38] <zeeshan|2> i read the logs
[19:38:43] <renesis> in recent additions to the convo
[19:38:46] <zeeshan|2> thanks to PSHA
[19:39:11] <zeeshan|2> like i said, i havent found a package where the led is powered by same vcc pin
[19:39:16] <zeeshan|2> (so built in resistor)
[19:39:25] <zeeshan|2> and differential output
[19:39:38] <zeeshan|2> and i know you said you can add a resistor and throw an opamp
[19:39:44] <zeeshan|2> but i dont want to do that, i want a ready to go package
[19:39:47] <zeeshan|2> thats plug and play
[19:39:56] <zeeshan|2> im already doing a lot of custom stuff
[19:40:02] <zeeshan|2> i dont need more headaches :P
[19:40:18] <renesis> yeah when a resistor for an LED is too much work, i dont know what you want
[19:40:20] <renesis> honestly
[19:40:26] <zeeshan|2> its not too much work
[19:40:27] <zeeshan|2> its lame
[19:40:31] <zeeshan|2> i'd have to wire it in line
[19:40:35] <zeeshan|2> worry about it breaking off
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[19:40:42] <zeeshan|2> or have it stick out of the 7i77 pin pad like a turd
[19:40:58] <zeeshan|2> it's not as robust as being on a circuit board
[19:41:03] <zeeshan|2> encased in a housing
[19:41:15] <renesis> could be more robust in a lot of situations
[19:41:23] <zeeshan|2> just not in my setup
[19:41:28] <renesis> versus a single resistor, lots more to fail on a PCB
[19:41:52] <zeeshan|2> and plus it's one extra wire
[19:41:53] <zeeshan|2> running
[19:41:55] <zeeshan|2> which is lame
[19:41:58] <zeeshan|2> another failure point
[19:42:11] <zeeshan|2> if it was vcc -> optical encoder board -> trace -> led
[19:42:18] <zeeshan|2> that's be a lot cleaner too
[19:43:25] <renesis> if you trust chinese designed PCB more than your ability to reliable put a resistor in series with a wire, dunno man
[19:43:35] <zeeshan|2> who says im running chinese pcb
[19:43:42] <zeeshan|2> i want to run a name brand
[19:43:45] <renesis> thats what the previous links were
[19:43:47] <zeeshan|2> like omron or honeywell
[19:43:54] <renesis> do they make what you want
[19:44:00] <zeeshan|2> im sure they do
[19:44:02] <zeeshan|2> i just cant find it
[19:44:07] <zeeshan|2> thats why i was asking in here
[19:44:11] <Rab> renesis, I have an identical nut on the Y axis, visible here: http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/parts01.jpg
[19:44:17] <zeeshan|2> cause i know people have run their own spindle encoders at some point
[19:44:39] <Rab> Looks like nothing's missing from the photos...I'll have to compare it in person to figure out what's up.
[19:44:40] <renesis> rab: how are the two halves attached?
[19:44:41] <zeeshan|2> if my heidenhain glass scales output differntial output from the optical encoders
[19:44:46] <zeeshan|2> im sure others do as well!
[19:44:51] <Rab> renesis, no idea. The machine lives at my friend's house.
[19:45:30] <renesis> im guessing rolled pin or set screw
[19:45:58] <renesis> or something in the mount that fits in a slot but that seems weird to assemble
[19:46:41] <renesis> zeeshan|2: thats not just an encoder, though
[19:47:10] <zeeshan|2> ren at this point i'd even take a single ended output
[19:47:16] <zeeshan|2> with / internal supply for led
[19:47:19] <renesis> its a non issue to turn single ended output into diff output
[19:47:39] <renesis> i dunno why youre tripping over a single resistor
[19:47:49] <zeeshan|2> extra wire
[19:47:53] <renesis> eh?
[19:47:53] <zeeshan|2> more failure point
[19:47:58] <renesis> the part you showed had wires
[19:48:08] <renesis> you simply attach one with a series resistor
[19:48:24] <renesis> some heatshrink and glue and its clean as fuck, prob as reliable as the wire itself
[19:48:43] <zeeshan|2> that hasn't been the case when i did it for an alternator
[19:48:45] <renesis> and im guessing a lot less hack than some of the other shit in your system
[19:48:49] <zeeshan|2> i used hard type heatshrink too
[19:48:54] <renesis> well thats because you did it
[19:49:00] <zeeshan|2> uh ok
[19:49:00] <renesis> dont do it like you do it, do it like a pro
[19:49:07] <zeeshan|2> youre a moron
[19:49:09] <zeeshan|2> just shut the fuck up
[19:49:15] <renesis> \o/
[19:50:13] <zeeshan|2> i dont know why i put you off ignore
[19:50:22] <Rab> You guys must be long-lost brothers.
[19:50:24] <renesis> im a moron but i can put a resistor in series with a wire reliably and have it look clean
[19:50:25] <zeeshan|2> i guess mainly because when others are talking it seems like trheyre talking to themselves
[19:50:31] <zeeshan|2> renesis: you havent even worked on a car
[19:50:33] <zeeshan|2> in your entire life
[19:50:35] <zeeshan|2> give me a break
[19:50:36] <renesis> sure
[19:50:40] <zeeshan|2> your little dinky cnc machine doesnt count
[19:50:59] <jdh> I think someone needs a nap.
[19:51:06] <renesis> after using butt terminals once, im a fan of solder splices and heatshrink for life
[19:51:22] <zeeshan|2> yea its great when the resistor pin pulls out
[19:51:22] <_methods> hehe
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[19:51:25] <zeeshan|2> cause of vibration
[19:51:28] <renesis> eh?
[19:51:29] <_methods> gettin hectic up in here
[19:51:32] <renesis> how the fuck that gonna happen
[19:51:35] <zeeshan|2> REALLY reliable
[19:51:42] <renesis> with railroad splices and covered in glue and heatshrink
[19:51:46] <Rab> zeeshan|2, I think optical encoders are another failure point anyway unless they're sealed somehow.
[19:51:47] <renesis> again zee, i said do it like a pro
[19:51:48] <zeeshan|2> this is why you see factory cars putting resistors in line in their wires!!!
[19:51:49] <renesis> not a mechanic
[19:52:08] <zeeshan|2> i have YET to find a resistor inline with a wire on a cnc controller
[19:52:11] <renesis> zeeshan|2: its not good DFM
[19:52:12] <zeeshan|2> if there is ever a resistor
[19:52:13] <zeeshan|2> it's bolted down
[19:52:21] <renesis> if youre trying to mass produce
[19:52:25] <zeeshan|2> its never inline in the wire.
[19:52:26] <renesis> your thing by definition is a prototype
[19:53:09] <zeeshan|2> and why the heck should i throw a resistor inline to begin with
[19:53:12] <renesis> prototypes are not the same as mass production on the level of efficiency as cars
[19:53:13] <zeeshan|2> when i should be able to buy a circuit baord
[19:53:16] <zeeshan|2> that already has it in there?
[19:53:17] <renesis> they dont even make CNC like that
[19:53:22] <zeeshan|2> my question wasn't about how to do it
[19:53:26] <zeeshan|2> it was about finding the right board
[19:53:29] <zeeshan|2> with everything built in.
[19:53:30] <renesis> because you have yet to find the PCB that does it
[19:53:34] <renesis> with diff output
[19:53:37] <zeeshan|2> if you dont know the answer to that question
[19:53:39] <renesis> and an inline splice is easy
[19:53:43] <zeeshan|2> stop suggesting irrelvant stuff.
[19:53:45] <renesis> and reliable if you know what youre doing
[19:53:52] <renesis> i cant even believe were having this convo
[19:54:17] <renesis> and zee im not going to go shopping for you
[19:54:23] <zeeshan|2> Rab: it will be sealed
[19:54:27] <renesis> nor am i an internet sensor catalog
[19:54:31] <zeeshan|2> theres a metal cover for that whole area
[19:54:37] <zeeshan|2> renesis: then be quiet
[19:54:39] <renesis> i think he means the optical path itself
[19:54:45] <zeeshan|2> the question was for a knowledageble person
[19:54:48] <zeeshan|2> who has used one before.
[19:54:54] <renesis> thats why my bug resistance comment was about
[19:55:03] <renesis> literal resistance to bugs crawling into the optical path
[19:55:13] <renesis> you think i havent done encoders before?
[19:55:30] <zeeshan|2> clearly not one with builtin diff output and supply for emitter
[19:55:34] <renesis> connecting an LED is pretty basic stuff zee
[19:55:42] <zeeshan|2> don't you think i know that?
[19:55:43] <renesis> well its just not an issue for me
[19:55:52] -!- Zboonet [Zboonet!~sherpa@fr141-1-82-237-217-117.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:55:52] <renesis> and your issue is a shopping one
[19:55:55] <zeeshan|2> what do you not get about not wanting to have a failure point
[19:55:58] <zeeshan|2> by putting a resistor inline?
[19:56:05] <renesis> theres always failure points
[19:56:18] <zeeshan|2> well a resistor inline is a big one
[19:56:20] <zeeshan|2> in my opinion.
[19:56:24] <Computer_Barf> does anyone here have a machine with a power drawbar?
[19:56:26] <jdh> heh, seriously?
[19:56:26] <renesis> if youre doing it wrong
[19:56:36] <jdh> a resistor is a big failure point?
[19:56:42] <zeeshan|2> http://nootropicdesign.com/projectlab/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/inLineResistor.jpg
[19:56:44] <jdh> for a non-moving wire?
[19:56:54] <renesis> jdh: yes because im a moran!
[19:56:55] <zeeshan|2> jdh you're right its not moving.
[19:56:59] <zeeshan|2> but when you're assembling stuff
[19:57:02] <zeeshan|2> and you're moving wires around
[19:57:02] <renesis> omg
[19:57:07] <renesis> then test after assembly
[19:57:08] <zeeshan|2> it's very easy to rip thjat shit off
[19:57:09] <renesis> again
[19:57:17] <zeeshan|2> and then you hhave to take it all apart
[19:57:19] <jdh> moveon
[19:57:19] <renesis> if youre doing it right, you wont break it from handling during assembly
[19:57:21] <zeeshan|2> and resolder
[19:57:22] <zeeshan|2> waste of time
[19:57:26] <renesis> eh
[19:57:28] <renesis> why resolder?
[19:57:29] <zeeshan|2> if it was on a circuit board you'd never have that problem
[19:57:32] <Computer_Barf> I recently got a g0704 and plan to eventually install a power draw bar but at this point I am just trying to understand the mechanics of it.
[19:57:35] <renesis> if its inline, its part of the wire
[19:57:37] <jdh> you waste 7.6x as many times with this conversation
[19:57:43] <Rab> zeeshan|2, fix the resistor in place. JB Weld it to the side of the encoder.
[19:57:44] <renesis> ikr
[19:57:55] <_methods> we're all dumber for this
[19:57:56] <renesis> hot glue if you want a servicable resistor, heh
[19:58:08] <renesis> but i mean, its a resistor
[19:58:11] <zeeshan|2> how about you all stop arguing with me
[19:58:13] <jdh> Barf: hoss style pnuematic?
[19:58:14] <_methods> i am laughing pretty good though
[19:58:15] <zeeshan|2> to put a resistor in line?
[19:58:23] <zeeshan|2> i don't want to DO THAT
[19:58:29] <renesis> how about you stop making ridiculous statements and calling me a moran!
[19:58:30] <jdh> so don't, move on.
[19:58:32] <zeeshan|2> I WANT it on a PCB
[19:58:34] <zeeshan|2> so fuck off renesis
[19:58:38] <renesis> so find the PCB!
[19:58:43] <Computer_Barf> jdh: yes , something similar , I can get a link
[19:58:52] <zeeshan|2> you are a moron, cause you just don't get the specifications im looking for
[19:58:52] <renesis> and stop calling me a moran because i dont know a working p/n offhand
[19:59:04] <renesis> no i just think your search is silly
[19:59:04] <jdh> it's moron, moran.
[19:59:20] <zeeshan|2> if my search was silly
[19:59:20] <renesis> moran is the punchline of a joke i have long since forgotten
[19:59:27] <zeeshan|2> tehre wouldn't be a board like the c3 index pulse card.
[19:59:35] <zeeshan|2> i want something exactly like that
[19:59:39] <zeeshan|2> just for 3 encoders.
[19:59:47] <zeeshan|2> or 3 optical sensors i mean
[19:59:53] <renesis> well look, you wanted an encoder with diff out
[19:59:56] <renesis> i told you how
[20:00:01] <zeeshan|2> i already know how.
[20:00:05] <renesis> other solution require just shopping
[20:00:06] <zeeshan|2> you don't need to tell me.
[20:00:07] <Computer_Barf> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop-machines/222190-high-tension-power-drawbar-using-3in-cylinder.html
[20:00:08] <renesis> so go shop if you cant hack
[20:00:18] <renesis> dont be calling people morons because they wont go shopping for you
[20:00:19] <zeeshan|2> that's what pissing me off
[20:00:21] <Rab> zeeshan|2, uhhh
[20:00:24] <renesis> and because they offer you good solutions
[20:00:25] <zeeshan|2> you assume i dont know how to put in a led
[20:00:26] <Rab> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=129
[20:00:40] <zeeshan|2> yes rab
[20:00:47] <zeeshan|2> i want that but x3 in 1 pcb
[20:00:59] <renesis> that looks like series resistors or sloppy soldering
[20:01:01] <Rab> Look at the encoder which works with the C3 Index Pulse Card: http://cnc4pc.com/images/C3_3.jpg
[20:01:02] <jdh> barf: looks cool.
[20:01:08] <Rab> Pretty sure that is sum inline resistor.
[20:01:13] <jdh> Z: so make a pcb that has everything on it
[20:01:19] <renesis> or some nasty, nasty soldering
[20:01:46] <zeeshan|2> rab nah
[20:01:46] <renesis> rab: the cool part about that is they can swap in an encoder with internal resistance without reving PCBA
[20:01:48] <zeeshan|2> its just a crappy soldering job
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[20:02:00] <Computer_Barf> this is the design that caught my eye. as my machine is, I have to use rotational force to thread the collet to the drawbar using a tool to hold the spindle and then move the top of the drawbar with a wrench. Ive read that with power draw bars some sort of gripper is employed, but I am looking for the specifics of what i would be installing
[20:02:02] <renesis> and that makes it a good thing?
[20:02:14] <zeeshan|2> who said it makes a good thing?
[20:02:31] <_methods> do you know why you want a power draw bar?
[20:02:44] <renesis> http://nootropicdesign.com/projectlab/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/inLineResistor.jpg
[20:02:47] <renesis> also thats not pro
[20:02:56] <Computer_Barf> well, i want to change the tools quickly, and I eventually want to have an auto tool changer
[20:02:56] <jdh> Barf: pressure is applied with belleville washers. the pnuematics compress teh washer stack to release the collet
[20:02:58] <zeeshan|2> http://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/courses/ece4760/FinalProjects/s2003/es89kh98/es89kh98/optical-shaft-encoders-s1s2.jpg
[20:03:00] <renesis> too much lead, not enough glue, no heatshrink
[20:03:02] <zeeshan|2> i trhink im just gonna buy something like this
[20:03:06] <zeeshan|2> and stick it to the end of the pulley
[20:03:19] <renesis> and use another one for indexing?
[20:03:28] <zeeshan|2> "something like this"
[20:03:29] <zeeshan|2> its not exact.
[20:03:33] <renesis> k
[20:04:03] -!- gambakufu [gambakufu!~ah@bzq-84-110-208-114.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:04:47] <renesis> also, you could use a chassis mount resistor
[20:04:55] <zeeshan|2> sigh
[20:04:59] <zeeshan|2> what do you not get about
[20:05:03] <zeeshan|2> resistor on pcb
[20:05:18] <zeeshan|2> i know how to put resistors inline in a wire.
[20:05:23] <zeeshan|2> i don't want to do it
[20:05:25] <zeeshan|2> for the final time.
[20:05:39] <renesis> okay well show us something that works at least
[20:05:46] <Computer_Barf> jhd: the belleville washers, those are like springs as I understand it. I just havn't seen the actual mechanism by which the collet is released and I am trying to identify it in the BOM, i could screenshot the BOM if that helps. Am i correct in asssuming that some new drawbar is installed that moves up and down and manipulates some sort of gripper?
[20:06:29] * Loetmichel is massaging his temples... i need a few of these: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13391 (RIGHT!)
[20:06:40] <jdh> same drawbar style. It just uses the bellevilles to provide force instead of screwing it in tight.
[20:06:53] <_methods> hahah
[20:06:58] <Loetmichel> i think i should rememner to drink more over the day.. a cup of coffe in the morning isnt enough fluids at all :-(
[20:07:23] <jdh> Loetmichel: what does the warning say?
[20:07:26] <_methods> you guys have CVS in Germany?
[20:07:55] <Loetmichel> bad headache right now, radiates into the teeth as well
[20:08:03] <Loetmichel> cvs?
[20:08:41] <Loetmichel> the waring on the cigarretes says "smoking cah n lead to circulation problems and impotence"
[20:08:58] <_methods> those aspirin are from a
[20:09:03] <_methods> CVS pharmacy
[20:10:05] <jdh> https://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/announcing-open-source-of-net-core-framework-net-core-distribution-for-linux-osx-and-free-visual-studio-community-edition
[20:10:21] <Rab> Loetmichel, sounds like a recipe for kidney stones.
[20:10:27] <Computer_Barf> jdh: I think there is still something that is eluding me as to how it works. I don't understand how the tool drops out without the drawbar rotating enough for it to unthread
[20:10:33] <Loetmichel> _methods: my wife brought that container from philly
[20:10:53] <Loetmichel> in germany a stip of 10 aspirin is about 10 eur
[20:11:05] <Computer_Barf> DAMN
[20:11:13] <jdh> Barf: the drawbar holds a 0.750" collet. The tool holders have 0.750" straight shafts that fit in the collet. The drawbar releases the collet enough to release teh tool holder
[20:11:24] <Computer_Barf> 10 euros for 10 asprin?
[20:11:36] <Computer_Barf> i have to be reading that wrogn
[20:11:45] <_methods> hahah they added a 3d printer to the start up screen of solidworks 2015
[20:11:47] <_methods> assholes
[20:12:47] <CaptHindsight> http://blogs.solidworks.com/tech/2014/09/solidworks-2015-sneak-peek-3d-printing-support.html
[20:12:51] <Loetmichel> Computer_Barf: you havent
[20:13:26] <Computer_Barf> Loetmichel: sounds like an arbitrage oppertunity!
[20:13:51] <Computer_Barf> time to get into the asprin smuggling buisness
[20:13:56] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[20:13:58] <_methods> well that would explain the turd squeezer on the load up screen
[20:14:16] <Computer_Barf> oh those underground asprin labs..
[20:14:36] <jdh> my daughter spent 8.2 hours monday waiting for a 3d thing to print for her design class
[20:14:56] <Computer_Barf> how is this possible that the germans of all people can't cook up a plentiful quantity of asprin
[20:16:46] <_methods> you know wtf solidworks forum is on by default but not toolbox
[20:16:49] <Computer_Barf> ten euros for ten asprin. Thats positively civilizing! What the heck is causing prices like that.
[20:17:02] <Computer_Barf> woops
[20:17:13] <zeeshan|2> renesis: the very first link i posted
[20:17:13] <zeeshan|2> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/OPB950Z/365-1787-ND/1637569
[20:17:14] <Computer_Barf> positively decivilizing i ment
[20:17:22] <zeeshan|2> has the emitter being powered.
[20:17:22] <zeeshan|2> lol
[20:18:12] <zeeshan|2> and its dual channel..
[20:18:17] <LeelooMinai> Are there some most current instructions on how to install 7i76 on linux? I have lunuxcnc and everything set up.
[20:18:27] <LeelooMinai> E, I mean 6i25
[20:18:38] -!- skunkworks has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[20:18:45] <zeeshan|2> problem solved
[20:19:10] <LeelooMinai> I downloaded 5i25 zip and I can see lunux configuration files and some binaries, but where are the instructions?
[20:20:30] <Computer_Barf> jhd: I think i understand now. the upward pressure on the collet diameter is causing it to tighten? So downward pressure from the piston overcoming the spring washers causes the rod to lower, releasing the collet pressure, causing something its holding to come out. This would explain the need for tormach style tool holders , as they are all probably fitting into the .75" collet that engages/disengages
[20:20:43] <jdh> right
[20:20:55] <Computer_Barf> comprehension success!
[20:21:09] <Computer_Barf> high fives
[20:21:44] <jdh> LeelooMinai: afaik, there is nothing in linux itself you need to do. Plug the card in.
[20:22:11] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, no? SO what is that 5i25 zip for - it has some configs inside...
[20:22:31] <Computer_Barf> LeelooMinai: unfortunantly I do not know the answer to your question, but I do plan on getting one of those ethernet controlled 7i76 boards
[20:23:10] <Computer_Barf> I would think the configuration files might go in ~/a_hidden_folder
[20:23:14] <LeelooMinai> http://i.imgur.com/daFFQvf.png <- I think I need to install some drivers first...
[20:23:43] <LeelooMinai> Cannot find any instructions on the procedure weirdly
[20:24:46] <zeeshan|2> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/hostmot2.html
[20:24:48] <jdh> that's linuxcnc, not linux.
[20:25:05] <zeeshan|2> Depending on how you installed LinuxCNC you may have to open the Synaptic Package Manager from the System menu and install the package for your Mesa card. The quickest way to find them is to do a search for hostmot2 in the Synaptic Package Manager. Mark the firmware for installation, then apply.
[20:25:07] <LeelooMinai> Yes, but it wants the drivers
[20:25:30] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: im jealous
[20:25:33] <LeelooMinai> O, ok, will look with synaptuc
[20:25:34] <zeeshan|2> you already got your mesa wired up
[20:25:34] <zeeshan|2> ;[
[20:25:45] <jdh> that's because she used inline resistors
[20:25:52] <_methods> hahahahah
[20:25:52] <zeeshan|2> jdh at least my lathe is done
[20:25:55] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[20:26:06] <jdh> cool. it's probably all ice upthere too.
[20:26:07] <zeeshan|2> whats the status on yours
[20:26:12] <jdh> I went diving this w/e
[20:26:12] <zeeshan|2> or are you still diving?
[20:26:14] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[20:26:14] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan|2: Yes, I have the box wired up
[20:26:52] <Computer_Barf> I do wonder if it is possible to use Mach with a 7i76? I plan on using linuxcnc primarily but was wondering.
[20:27:09] -!- zeeshan [zeeshan!~kvirc@CPE0018e7cea342-CM5039555db2cc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:27:13] <jdh> wrong channel.
[20:27:29] <Computer_Barf> :(
[20:28:08] <Computer_Barf> im not trying to offend linuxcnc , I perfer linux in all cases
[20:28:17] <jdh> Z: http://tinyurl.com/k9rk8br
[20:28:31] <zeeshan> found another shark tooth?
[20:28:33] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I will take a photo of my box
[20:28:57] <LeelooMinai> This way, if I will just put in on fire, I will have something to reminiscent
[20:29:08] <zeeshan> rofl
[20:29:30] <Computer_Barf> is there a channel for mach?
[20:29:42] <zeeshan> yes Computer_Barf
[20:29:46] <zeeshan> please check out #garbage
[20:29:50] <Computer_Barf> lol
[20:30:00] <zeeshan> :D
[20:30:37] <Computer_Barf> come on guys, you know i love you.
[20:30:43] <Rab> zeeshan, that encoder isn't differential output.
[20:30:46] -!- zeeshan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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[20:30:53] <zeeshan> rab yes
[20:31:10] <zeeshan> it also has no mounting holes
[20:31:26] <Rab> zeeshan, it's also TTL output...not sure if that's what you want.
[20:31:30] <jdh> it's ok, you can make it work with differential with a pair of resistors
[20:31:38] <LeelooMinai> Here it is, ready for commands, I guess: https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15775299025/
[20:31:40] <zeeshan> jdh
[20:31:51] <zeeshan> do you want me to put you on my lathe
[20:31:59] <zeeshan> and put an o-ring groove in you
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[20:32:59] <LeelooMinai> Now I need to get the mesa driver working
[20:33:10] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: just install hostmod2
[20:33:13] <Rab> TTL output is what you want to simulate a switch closing to ground, though.
[20:33:34] <zeeshan> rab i guess i need logic output
[20:33:42] <LeelooMinai> Right
[20:34:08] <zeeshan> what are those brass fittings
[20:34:27] <Rab> zeeshan, do you want short to ground or +5V on your sense input when the sensor is interrupted?
[20:34:48] <LeelooMinai> New MacGyver technology for shielding and strain relief - directly from plumbing department
[20:35:32] <zeeshan> rab this is all i kinow:
[20:35:34] <zeeshan> "The 7I77 provides six channels of quadrature encode r interface with index. Encoder inputs can be programmed for differential or single ended encoders. The encoder interface also provides short circuit protected 5V power to t he encoders. When used with single ended encoders, the ENCA+, ENCB+ and IDX+ signals a re wired to the encoder and the ENCA-,ENCB-, and IDX- terminal left unconnected."
[20:36:04] <zeeshan> so im assuming it'll need to go to 5v.
[20:36:29] <Computer_Barf> what is the real name for the mach channel other than #garbage
[20:36:42] <_methods> LeelooMinai: are you happy with that oscope?
[20:36:53] <LeelooMinai> _methods: The Rigol?
[20:36:56] <_methods> yeah'
[20:37:08] <_methods> i'm thinkin about gettin one of them
[20:37:14] <Computer_Barf> searching google for mach 3 gets all sorts of shaving stuff
[20:37:33] <zeeshan> rab im going to worry about the encoder some other day
[20:37:42] <zeeshan> i can always add it on later
[20:37:49] <_methods> LeelooMinai: i like your helping hand bar
[20:38:05] <zeeshan> when i have more time to figure out electronics
[20:38:07] <LeelooMinai> Well, I bought it 2-3 years ago - I firmare-hacked it to 100MHz and it's good value, yes, no problems with it. But if you are looking to buy something now, I recommend the new Rigol Z series - it is about $400 and has 4 channels, bigger display, memory and nicer features.
[20:38:20] <_methods> k
[20:38:26] <Rab> zeeshan, your servos don't come with encoders?
[20:38:35] <Rab> I thought you were talking about optical limit switches.
[20:38:35] <zeeshan> rab this is for my spindle
[20:38:40] <Rab> Hmm, OK.
[20:38:58] <LeelooMinai> _methods: Cannot go wrong with this one: http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000Z/ds1054z/
[20:39:15] <_methods> k
[20:39:39] <_methods> well i can't this month i just spent $500 on a lathe so going to have to wait now lol
[20:39:55] <_methods> yeah that 1054z is nice
[20:40:01] <Rab> zeeshan, today's project (if I find time) is trying to wake up a Techno-Isel servo controller that I found completely disassembled. And one servo.
[20:40:10] <LeelooMinai> Damn, cannot find 6i25 in the update centre: http://i.imgur.com/EoHMkHm.png
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[20:40:33] <LeelooMinai> I do not see 5i25 either:/
[20:41:02] <zeeshan> rab you always score nice electronics :p
[20:41:20] <Rab> zeeshan, yah, this was part of the FleshCut haul.
[20:41:28] <_methods> oh wow they added flattening multifaced surfaces
[20:41:30] <zeeshan> nice
[20:41:39] <_methods> of course after i developed all the flats for that boat hull
[20:41:58] <renesis> ha, im a moron because zee didnt realize the first link he posted was what he wanted
[20:42:21] <zeeshan> has no mounting holes though
[20:42:59] <Rab> I got a bunch of single-start 10tpi acme rod too, pretty slow for stepper use but I think with a servo it could provide acceptable speed.
[20:43:49] <zeeshan> what are you going to build out ofit
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[20:45:14] <Rab> I used the rod on my Z-axis, and it's s-l-o-w...resolution is 0.00015 which is pretty ridiculous. http://reboots.g-cipher.net/ghettocnc/zmounted.jpg
[20:45:39] <Rab> Fine for Z, but X and Y need to be faster.
[20:45:52] <Rab> zeeshan, another CNC router, of course. ;)
[20:46:08] <zeeshan> haha
[20:46:11] <Rab> Probably geared toward light, high-resolution engraving.
[20:47:40] <_methods> OMG best solidworks fix ever
[20:47:50] <zeeshan> ??
[20:48:04] <_methods> controlling linear patterns with reference geometry
[20:48:17] <zeeshan> like
[20:48:23] <zeeshan> putting a bunch circles
[20:48:25] <_methods> pick 2 faces and it will evenly space features
[20:48:28] <zeeshan> along a spline?
[20:48:30] <_methods> or 2 edges
[20:48:32] <_methods> or whatver
[20:48:52] <_methods> you tell it the spacing and # of instances
[20:49:02] <_methods> and it will place them between the 2 features
[20:49:06] <zeeshan> oo thats nice
[20:49:08] <_methods> no more calculating spacing
[20:49:09] <zeeshan> this is in 2014?
[20:49:12] <_methods> 2015
[20:49:22] <zeeshan> i need to update the student version
[20:49:27] <zeeshan> im @ 2014
[20:49:39] <_methods> omg i'm a so sos happy
[20:51:24] <_methods> so irritating when you're tryin to do a linear pattern and you get the spacing off
[20:51:36] <_methods> now i don't have to think at all lol
[20:52:20] <zeeshan> hehe
[20:52:45] <_methods> they spent quite a bit of time on weldments it looks like
[20:52:50] <_methods> lots of updated features there
[20:52:59] <_methods> and routing
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[20:58:36] <Computer_Barf> zeeshan: plz. can you tell me a chat room for mach?
[21:06:35] <JT-Shop> you have to pay for mark support
[21:08:10] <renesis> you need to paypal to enter the chan or something?
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[21:13:27] <JT-Shop> you can go to the zone and ask about mack
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[21:21:22] <mozmck> IoT: I'm about tired of this new hype already...
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[21:50:59] <mevon> hello everyone I cant remember how to convert PCB drill .cnc files to .ngc gcodes for my linuxcnc, can anyone help me on this topic?
[21:51:49] <mevon> im using gEDA pcb to generate gerbers
[21:59:10] <mevon> think i was using pcb2gcode
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[22:05:43] <renesis> mevon: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G81-Drilling-Cycle
[22:06:25] <renesis> you need to put a g81 line at the beginning of a set of XY coordinates for each drill size
[22:07:08] <renesis> and depending on your machine, maybe tool change and spindle speed codes
[22:08:29] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:23:40] <Tom_L> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000swru#summary
[22:23:42] <Tom_L> felt that one
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[22:27:14] <LeelooMinai> I am trying to configure 6i25/7i76 with pncconf - man, I wonder if it's me, or this GUI is undecipherable:/
[22:27:35] <Tom_itx> maybe you'd be better off doing it manually
[22:28:07] <LeelooMinai> I was hoping it would generate something sane I could edit
[22:29:40] <LeelooMinai> Did not think this would be such a bad experience:)
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[22:29:52] <Tom_itx> well it shouldn't be
[22:29:59] <Tom_itx> plenty of folks here can help
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[22:31:25] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so I got so far: http://i.imgur.com/yAZF58f.png
[22:31:43] <LeelooMinai> Now, I cannot modify the number of pwm generators...
[22:32:02] <LeelooMinai> Which seems to be needed for stepper motors
[22:32:18] <Tom_itx> stepgen
[22:32:27] <Tom_itx> for steppers
[22:32:34] <LeelooMinai> Right, sorry, those - but same thing
[22:32:38] <Tom_itx> pwmgen for servo
[22:33:05] <LeelooMinai> I mean it's stuck at 0...
[22:33:30] <LeelooMinai> The arrows are grayed
[22:33:52] <Tom_L> pcw_home ^^
[22:34:48] <LeelooMinai> I hope noone who wrote this thing is in this channel:)
[22:35:38] <Tom_itx> well they likely are
[22:36:26] <LeelooMinai> Hiding?
[22:36:34] <Tom_itx> or working
[22:36:48] <Tom_itx> i don't use pncconf
[22:37:06] <LeelooMinai> What do you use?
[22:37:29] <Tom_L> hand written
[22:37:41] <LeelooMinai> What? Lunuxcnc alternative?
[22:37:53] <Tom_L> no i use lcnc
[22:37:57] <Tom_L> with steppers
[22:38:25] <Tom_L> i don't have a 5i25 or 6i25 though
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[22:38:35] <LeelooMinai> Ok, so you mean you edit configuration files by hand?
[22:38:39] <Tom_itx> yes
[22:39:15] <LeelooMinai> Well, I had trouble finding info to even get this far, I can imagine how hard it will be to find details on how to edit those files.
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[22:48:46] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, support for the pncconf is on the forum
[22:49:59] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I got http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/pncconf-7i76.html instructions from there
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[22:50:21] <JT-Shop> yikes that's my page
[22:50:30] <renesis> ha
[22:50:50] <LeelooMinai> JT-Shop: To make you feel better, I got to number 15:)
[22:51:00] <JT-Shop> I don't see 6i25 but IIRC the 5i25 is the same card
[22:51:33] <LeelooMinai> Yes, right, I am just using 5i25 - problem is, I cannot change step generators from 0 to enything else
[22:52:26] <JT-Shop> did you do step 13?
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[22:52:57] <LeelooMinai> I believe so: http://i.imgur.com/neKg0CJ.png
[22:53:07] <JT-Shop> seems to work for me... I mean you can select stepgens for each axis on tab 3
[22:53:13] <LeelooMinai> The firmware is for 7i76
[22:53:23] <LeelooMinai> I got it from the mesa zip for 5i25
[22:54:10] <JT-Shop> I don't see the smart serial tab
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[22:55:08] <LeelooMinai> I press Accept component Changes and, well, nothing changes
[22:56:33] <JT-Shop> I don't even have the firmware option you used on this computer running 2.6.4
[22:56:57] <LeelooMinai> Yes, it was not there - I had to download it from the mesa zip
[22:57:05] <JT-Shop> I also see you skipped another step
[22:57:17] <LeelooMinai> What step?
[22:59:10] <JT-Shop> it is best to take this to the forum so Chris can help you
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[23:03:06] <LeelooMinai> I will try another configuration from that file - maybe there's something wrong with this particular one.
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[23:08:56] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, I tried one for two 7i76 cards and it has 10 StepGen's in teh xml file, which is more like it... The other one does not even define that entry - pretty messed up
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[23:10:29] <JT-Shop> you should fix it and submit a patch
[23:10:58] <LeelooMinai> To fix it I would need to study the format for days probably:)
[23:11:29] <LeelooMinai> SO I don't just copy/paste something without being sure it's sane
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[23:13:57] <LeelooMinai> Also, I think those configs are made by mesa guy(s) as they seem to be hostmot2 specific - the xml is <hostmot2>...</hostmot2> so it's probably the hardware layer (?)
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[23:15:48] <JT-Shop> hostmot2 is the mesa driver
[23:15:50] <LeelooMinai> "7I76_7I74 is a configuration for one 7I76 five axis step/dir daughtercards on P3 and one 7I74 eight channel RS-422 interface on P2. The 7I74 is configured with eight Smart Serial channels."
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[23:16:06] * JT-Shop wonders how many days people have worked on LinuxCNC?
[23:16:11] <LeelooMinai> This is from the docs. As I read it, I should get the step channels, so something is wrong.
[23:16:30] <JT-Shop> support for pncconf is on the forum
[23:16:50] <LeelooMinai> Ok, but as I wrote - this seems to be mesa problem.
[23:17:11] <LeelooMinai> It does not expose hardware properly with those configs.
[23:17:27] <LeelooMinai> (and the configs are from their site)
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[23:22:24] <LeelooMinai> Hmm there's also 5i25_7i76x2.xml and 5i25_7i76x2r.xml ... how am I supposed to guess what is the difference? :)
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[23:23:44] <JT-Shop> you ask Chris on the forum
[23:24:10] <JT-Shop> or PCW if he is around here
[23:24:20] <LeelooMinai> Right
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[23:33:32] <PCW> If I try pncconf it seems to do about the right stuff (the defaults seem right for a 5i25/7I76x2)
[23:35:26] <LeelooMinai> PCW, I used this one first: http://i.imgur.com/H4bdAVy.png
[23:35:35] <LeelooMinai> There is no step gens at all in it
[23:36:05] <PCW> Um why are you using that?
[23:36:27] <LeelooMinai> It's for 7i76 and some RS card... why not?
[23:36:45] <LeelooMinai> I don't have two 7i76
[23:37:14] <PCW> use the internal setup 7i76x2 one 7I76 only
[23:37:49] <LeelooMinai> There are two files for that - one ands with r and the other not - what's the difference?
[23:37:54] <LeelooMinai> ends*
[23:38:22] <PCW> dont use any files
[23:38:48] <PCW> simply run pncconf with its defaults
[23:39:18] <LeelooMinai> PCW: It did not even have 5i25 option - I had to download those files
[23:39:40] <PCW> you must have a very old version
[23:40:03] <LeelooMinai> Hmm...
[23:40:49] <LeelooMinai> When I was downloading it, it was the newest one - beta 1
[23:41:30] <LeelooMinai> Seems it's still the newest
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[23:42:36] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, are you running LinuxCNC 2.6?
[23:42:48] <LeelooMinai> 2.5.3
[23:43:13] <PCW> If it does not shod internal 5i25 as a board default its quite old
[23:43:23] <PCW> s/shod/show/
[23:44:01] <LeelooMinai> Ok, I will try to chase newer one, thx
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[23:45:20] <taiden> hey all. i'm thinking of running nema23 servos instead of stepper motors
[23:45:35] <taiden> i've never even looked into servos until now
[23:45:47] <taiden> and by now i mean in the last twenty seconds
[23:45:50] <JT-Shop> LeelooMinai, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.6
[23:46:11] <LeelooMinai> I have Linux 12.04
[23:46:24] <LeelooMinai> I mean Ubuntu
[23:46:28] <taiden> does linuxcnc excel with a servo motor kit such as this? http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-m-dc-servo-motor/3-axis-nema23-350ozin-60v20a-psu-g230x-gecko-driver
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[23:47:42] <LeelooMinai> But thx, maybe I will be able to upgrade to it
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[23:48:41] <JT-Shop> taiden, the 230 just takes step and direction inputs so no feedback to LinuxCNC
[23:51:04] <taiden> hmm. it's packaged with three external encoders
[23:51:21] <taiden> so the gecko wont take that data back to linuxcnc? :(
[23:51:26] <JT-Shop> no
[23:52:14] <taiden> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/12/G320X-KIT-Nema-23.pdf
[23:52:22] <taiden> so what's the point of the encoder then?
[23:53:44] <JT-Shop> let me get the link to the 320
[23:53:44] <JT-Shop> http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-brush-dc-drives.html
[23:54:18] <taiden> im cruising through the manual right now :)
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[23:56:38] <taiden> how do the communications work between linuxcnc and a servo motor driver?
[23:56:48] <taiden> does it use step pulses like a stepper motor?
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