#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-23

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[00:50:01] <ssi> argh ups is soooo slow
[00:50:14] <ssi> over a week to get something from SF to atlanta? absurd
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[01:15:12] <ssi> hey pete
[01:15:16] <ssi> man that lathe you linked me was nuts
[01:15:32] <PetefromTn_andro> ?
[01:15:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Oh yeah
[01:15:53] <PetefromTn_andro> The live tool one.
[01:16:59] <ssi> yeah
[01:17:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Pretty kickass for a homebuilt
[01:17:15] <ssi> yeah very
[01:17:45] <PetefromTn_andro> I like the pneumatic chain driven headstock setup for positioning
[01:17:56] <_DannyK_> Any chances of getting the "repeater" for the link?
[01:18:24] <PetefromTn_andro> You got it ssi I'm on my cellphone
[01:18:38] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIpByxym7Co
[01:18:47] <PetefromTn_andro> Thanks man
[01:18:49] <_DannyK_> Ty ssi
[01:19:23] <PetefromTn_andro> Man I'm getting excited about that lathe
[01:19:27] <ssi> :)
[01:19:43] <ssi> getting it saturday?
[01:20:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Having some trouble finding a loaner trailer I can use to go get it tho
[01:20:12] <PetefromTn_andro> Maybe
[01:21:14] <PetefromTn_andro> My neighbor said I could use his but then he checked it out and the damn tires are dry rotted
[01:22:39] <_DannyK_> Man that is pretty nuts..
[01:22:49] <_DannyK_> I didn't mean pretty, but nuts for sure..
[01:22:50] <PetefromTn_andro> I finished machining the first picatinny rail prototype for the feinwerkbau rifle riser I make today. It's going to the new owner tomorrow.
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[01:25:02] <ssi> nice
[01:25:18] <PetefromTn_andro> http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/matospeter/IMAG0171_zpsuxkzlzs7.jpg
[01:25:33] <ssi> looks great
[01:25:45] <ssi> I can't wait to get my machine making parts
[01:25:51] <ssi> I'm sad I've had so many damn setbacks
[01:26:10] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah the Cincinnati kicks ass man.. you'll love it.
[01:26:31] <ssi> my pullstuds will be here tomorrow
[01:26:32] <PetefromTn_andro> What happened now?
[01:26:42] <ssi> eh nothing really
[01:26:52] <ssi> I'm having trouble getting the encoder-count hallstate code to work
[01:27:06] <ssi> I killed my 7i77 but I fixed it :P
[01:27:14] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I'm sorry to hear that
[01:27:32] <ssi> but I have some contract work that I need to do, and so it'll consume a bit of my time
[01:27:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Nice
[01:27:57] <ssi> more pcb work for podponics
[01:28:55] <ssi> need to start working on the design for my next converter board too
[01:29:03] <ssi> I'm considering doing something crazy with it
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[01:29:23] <PetefromTn_andro> You're a wild and crazy guy hehe
[01:29:35] <ssi> I'm gonna make this one a lot bigger
[01:29:38] <ssi> like the size of the drive
[01:29:50] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0k78PGIQAAel1y.jpg:large
[01:29:54] <ssi> the size of that piece of acrylic
[01:30:00] <ssi> mounted like that
[01:30:12] <ssi> DB25 coming in at the bottom, by the power connector
[01:30:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Hm
[01:30:28] <ssi> connector along the near edge that wires up everything on the drive
[01:30:35] <ssi> then a connector on the top edge for the signals to the 7i77
[01:30:35] <ssi> BUT
[01:30:40] <ssi> I'm gonna give it some extra hardware
[01:30:45] <ssi> so that potentially it can be its own smartserial host
[01:31:03] <ssi> then, instead of a bundle of wires going to the 7i77, I'd just have a cat5 cable going to a 7i74 8x sserial board
[01:31:17] <ssi> then each drive just gets that one cable to it, and each one is like it's own little single-axis mesa daughterboard
[01:31:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds good man
[01:31:28] <ssi> I'm not 100% confident I can pull it off
[01:31:31] <ssi> but it'd be really neat if I can
[01:32:00] <ssi> I'm gonna make the board flexible enough that it'll do what I need even if I can't get the fancy stuff to work
[01:32:16] <PetefromTn_andro> Are those drives still manufactured and are they all the same?
[01:32:21] <ssi> and flexible enough that it'll work with regular brushless motors with hall sensors as well as my redcaps
[01:32:25] <ssi> yeah they're all over the place
[01:32:36] <ssi> i bought six from the same vendor for $60 apiece
[01:32:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah but I mean don't they
[01:33:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Make several different models
[01:33:09] <ssi> yeah they do
[01:33:23] <PetefromTn_andro> Are they all sharing the same chassis
[01:33:29] <ssi> eh not exactly
[01:33:37] <ssi> the mechanicals may not line up exactly with every model they make
[01:33:51] <PetefromTn_andro> That's maybe an issue if y
[01:34:05] <PetefromTn_andro> You intended to sell em
[01:34:16] <ssi> possibly, but it's not like they HAVE To bolt to the bottom of the drive like that
[01:34:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Well I'm all for anything that makes wiring up a cnc simpler and easier
[01:35:16] <ssi> yeah seriously
[01:35:37] <PetefromTn_andro> I'll be your guinea pig bitch with the new lathe LOL
[01:35:39] <ssi> :)
[01:36:04] <ssi> nice bonus: my old eagle license was limited in board size, so I couldn't make a board quite as big as I want to do for this
[01:36:19] <ssi> but because podponics needs my help in a hurry, and because forrest's new boards are HUGE, they had to buy me a pro license
[01:36:28] <ssi> so now I have effectively unlimited pcb capability
[01:37:31] <PetefromTn_andro> Sweet. Any word on those enclosures they wanted machined?
[01:37:41] <ssi> sorta
[01:37:55] <ssi> the reason they haven't come through with that stuff yet is because the mechanicals aren't sorted out on the rectifier boards yet
[01:38:03] <ssi> that's part of what I'm doing for them now
[01:38:14] <ssi> I just got done adding 3ph 480v fuses to the pcb and rerouting sections of it
[01:38:33] <PetefromTn_andro> Jeez
[01:38:49] <ssi> I need to figure out the comms connector clearances, which'll involve milling the pcb a bit until the connector fits and then figuring out what the box penetration will be
[01:38:51] <PetefromTn_andro> Sounds like a heavy duty board
[01:38:59] <ssi> and then figuring out the highvoltage cable penetrations
[01:39:14] <ssi> so I'm going to be sorting out the mechanicals, and likely I'll end up doing the drawings for the box mill work
[01:40:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Cool
[01:41:27] <ssi> long story short, I'll keep you up to speed about it
[01:41:44] <ssi> they're going to need something like 20 of these boxes as soon as the pcbs are ready
[01:41:46] <PetefromTn_andro> I wonder if I could adapt some of that live tool goodness to my new cnc lathe LOL
[01:42:00] <ssi> there's ten in a container I think
[01:42:07] <ssi> and they have something like forty containers in the atlanta farm
[01:42:25] <PetefromTn_andro> Well just let me know man and I'll get em cut for us.
[01:42:34] <ssi> yep
[01:42:44] <ssi> I'm not real sure what the best way to fixture these things is
[01:43:06] <PetefromTn_andro> I'll figure it out when I get one
[01:43:52] <ssi> sent you a picture
[01:44:08] <PetefromTn_andro> I've gotten pretty good at fixtures with all the crazy Shit we had to do in those job shops
[01:45:11] <PetefromTn_andro> So you already have a prototype then.
[01:45:21] <ssi> mechanicals aren't figured out yet
[01:45:30] <ssi> that one penetration is where the 480 3ph comes in
[01:45:33] <ssi> and they just drilled that by hand
[01:46:08] <ssi> but there'll be that, plus a square hole for a modular connector, plus a rectangular hole for a plate which'll have 13 penetrations for gland fittings or tubing epoxied in or something
[01:46:20] <ssi> it's all gotta be relatively water-safe
[01:46:32] <ssi> 700VDC in an environment where pressurized water sprays everywhere
[01:46:33] <ssi> it's fun :P
[01:47:02] <PetefromTn_andro> Interesting... Are all the entries on the sides?
[01:47:32] <ssi> everything'll be on that long side
[01:47:59] <PetefromTn_andro> Shit that's easy then
[01:48:03] <ssi> so my concerns about fixturing are that if you just clamp that up in a vise, it's gonna chatter
[01:48:11] <ssi> needs to be clamped between two big aluminum blocks or som ething
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[01:48:15] <ssi> or maybe clamped to na angle plate
[01:48:17] <PetefromTn_andro> No Hell no
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[01:48:38] <PetefromTn_andro> Gotta clamp it to a vertical fixture
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[01:49:21] <PetefromTn_andro> Maybe screw it down using the original screws holes and some additional brackets
[01:49:32] <ssi> yeah that's not a bad idea
[01:50:01] <PetefromTn_andro> Clamp the whole thing to my big angle plate
[01:51:50] <PetefromTn_andro> I need to find a nice 5hp 3ph inverter duty motor for the lathe
[01:52:04] <PetefromTn_andro> Preferably cheap
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[02:41:22] <zeeshan> son of
[02:41:29] <zeeshan> i accidently bought 3 phase panels :(
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[02:55:19] <_DannyK_> ehh, sleep is under rated..
[02:55:43] <_DannyK_> I think I will go rate it now, have a good night..
[02:56:09] <zeeshan> ssi
[02:56:12] <zeeshan> lol those amc drives are big!
[02:56:14] <zeeshan> i was expecting smaller
[02:56:21] <_DannyK_> Capt, ssi, thanks for the link..
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[02:56:46] <XXCoder> ow. usb chip company is killing clones of that usb chip
[02:57:12] <XXCoder> I', bit concerned because anyone may have clone and not know it. never attack customers :(
[02:59:49] <CaptHindsight> yes, a bit misguided
[03:00:31] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:00:34] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight:
[03:00:39] <zeeshan> have you played with 3 phase breakers?
[03:00:48] <zeeshan> 3 pole
[03:01:13] <CaptHindsight> yes, currently using them
[03:01:20] <zeeshan> have you ever used a 3 pole breaker
[03:01:23] <zeeshan> and left one pole empty
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[03:01:41] <zeeshan> and used it as protection for L1 and L2 only
[03:01:57] <CaptHindsight> heh, in a pinch until the supplier delivered
[03:02:20] <CaptHindsight> or used 3 1 pole for 3 phase or 2 pole etc etc
[03:02:21] <zeeshan> i was looking at my literature from eaton
[03:02:29] <zeeshan> the 3 phase and single phase panels used the same chassis
[03:02:31] <CaptHindsight> done it all temporarily
[03:02:41] <zeeshan> we just didnt have the middle bus bar
[03:02:50] <zeeshan> and the spacing of the branches changed
[03:03:05] <zeeshan> help me decide
[03:03:11] <zeeshan> should i use this 3 phase panel as single phase? :D
[03:04:01] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15418489479/
[03:04:02] <CaptHindsight> it's not code to use 3 phase breakers that way
[03:04:07] <zeeshan> https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/14984971333/in/photostream/
[03:04:09] <zeeshan> those are the 2 panels
[03:04:15] <zeeshan> no, i'm going to use 2 pole and 1 pole breakers
[03:04:22] <zeeshan> but ill have some empty slots
[03:04:25] <CaptHindsight> but you could use the 3 phase panel for 2 pole
[03:04:46] <zeeshan> i think i should have plenty of room
[03:04:51] <zeeshan> since i have those double 15 a breakers
[03:04:59] <zeeshan> which only take 1 spot
[03:06:44] <CaptHindsight> are you going to leave one bar unconnected or connect 1 pole to two bars?
[03:06:56] <zeeshan> the middle bar will be unconnected
[03:07:09] <zeeshan> i think i can pull it out
[03:07:12] <zeeshan> and yous ee those arms?
[03:07:20] <zeeshan> where the breakers catch to get power?
[03:07:25] <zeeshan> i might steal them from the other panel
[03:07:29] <zeeshan> and space them correctly
[03:07:36] <zeeshan> so i can use all spots
[03:07:42] <zeeshan> i got these for $20
[03:07:43] <zeeshan> !
[03:08:24] <CaptHindsight> inspectors would usually let it pass if we did that on old services
[03:08:49] <zeeshan> im looking at this pic https://www.flickr.com/photos/128539016@N05/15418489479/in/photostream/
[03:08:53] <zeeshan> notice the middle two arms?
[03:08:59] <zeeshan> from the A and C bus?
[03:09:06] <zeeshan> i can hook up 2 pole breakers right there
[03:09:10] <zeeshan> which i only need 2
[03:09:24] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[03:09:29] <zeeshan> all the 115vac can go where they already are right now
[03:09:32] <zeeshan> and at the top spot
[03:10:44] <zeeshan> my boss at eaton
[03:10:47] <CaptHindsight> I think I once ran out of room in a 3 phase delta panel and ran 1 20A circuit from B to the neutral
[03:10:52] <zeeshan> would be so mad if he saw me running square d panel
[03:10:52] <zeeshan> lol
[03:11:15] <zeeshan> i dont see why you cant do that?
[03:11:18] <zeeshan> sounds normal
[03:12:01] <zeeshan> btw CaptHindsight about your comment earlier
[03:12:03] <zeeshan> about the shooting
[03:12:09] <CaptHindsight> in a delta A and C would share the neutral, B would only be used with one of the the other phases A or C
[03:12:12] <zeeshan> i finally heard the name of the soldier, and it sounded familiar
[03:12:16] <zeeshan> it was one of my brothers friends
[03:12:16] <zeeshan> :/
[03:12:28] <zeeshan> they werent close
[03:12:30] <zeeshan> but hung out sometimes
[03:12:39] <CaptHindsight> small world sometimes
[03:12:41] <zeeshan> yea man
[03:12:57] <zeeshan> i liked trudeau's speech about it
[03:13:01] <zeeshan> "don't forget we're canadians"
[03:13:05] <zeeshan> "we're a democracy"
[03:13:21] <zeeshan> basically saying, its no time to think irrationally
[03:13:27] <CaptHindsight> back in the 80's we were watching the news and a story came out about two teens that jumped to their deaths...
[03:14:48] <zeeshan> and
[03:15:00] <CaptHindsight> somebody in the room made a comment about the event in a very crude way and one the teens best friends was (unknowingly) sitting next to him
[03:15:19] <CaptHindsight> awkward
[03:15:23] <zeeshan> wow
[03:15:30] <CaptHindsight> you never know
[03:15:53] <zeeshan> i think the saying goes
[03:15:57] <zeeshan> we're connected by like 10 people?
[03:15:58] <zeeshan> or something
[03:16:14] <CaptHindsight> or the 6 degrees
[03:16:31] <ssi> lol
[03:16:32] <zeeshan> =D
[03:16:35] <CaptHindsight> remeber the Kevin Bacon game?
[03:16:36] <XXCoder> its closer to 7 now
[03:16:44] <XXCoder> population has grown.
[03:17:03] <zeeshan> yes CaptHindsight thats it
[03:17:08] <zeeshan> i meant 6 :P
[03:17:16] <CaptHindsight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon
[03:17:25] <XXCoder> ah different one
[03:17:40] <CaptHindsight> wow 20 years ago
[03:18:44] <XXCoder> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s%E2%80%93Bacon_number
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[03:21:08] <Tom_itx> ssi, got your full blown eagle yet?
[03:21:11] <ssi> yep!
[03:21:19] <ssi> it's like full blown aids, but more expensive
[03:21:21] <Tom_itx> pretty nice isn't it?
[03:21:22] <zeeshan> blow anything up today ssi? :D
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[03:21:31] <Tom_itx> 16 layers
[03:21:32] <ssi> zeeshan: not yet, but the night is young!
[03:21:34] <Tom_itx> no boundaries
[03:21:36] <zeeshan> told ya!
[03:21:37] <zeeshan> :D
[03:21:41] <zeeshan> you fixed something today
[03:21:43] <ssi> Tom_itx: it's the boundaries that are the big thing for me
[03:21:43] <zeeshan> not blew
[03:21:46] <zeeshan> tables have turned
[03:21:47] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:21:49] <ssi> I dont care so much about 16 layers, 6 was enough for me
[03:21:53] <ssi> but 160x100mm is VERY limiting
[03:21:58] <Tom_itx> yup
[03:22:16] <Tom_itx> that's why i'm still using an old version :D
[03:22:18] <ssi> it just sucks that for a hobbyist it's 10x the price to make slightly bigger boards
[03:23:32] <Tom_itx> do they still send books with it or is it just a software key now?
[03:23:37] <ssi> just software key
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[03:24:04] <ssi> I got the bulk of the pcb rework done that my client wanted
[03:24:08] <Tom_itx> nobody gives hardcopy anymore it seems
[03:24:15] <Tom_itx> nice
[03:24:38] <ssi> had to add on board fuses to a 480V 3ph mains input
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[03:24:52] <ssi> and move and reroute a bunch of crap including the rectifiers in order to make room
[03:25:06] <ssi> was a bit of a hassle
[03:25:07] <ssi> heh
[03:25:07] <Tom_itx> how do you isolate the high voltage from the rest?
[03:25:29] <ssi> there are a couple pours at the top of the board that are the low voltage sections
[03:25:30] <XXCoder> put it in seperate room then lock door
[03:25:32] <ssi> but most of it is high voltage
[03:25:41] <ssi> it's a 700VDC power supply for leds
[03:25:54] <Tom_itx> i never bothered checking what UL etc say about that
[03:26:07] <Tom_itx> i think there's a distance requirement etc
[03:26:26] <Tom_itx> signs?
[03:26:38] <ssi> grow lights :P
[03:26:44] <Tom_itx> heh
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[03:27:01] <ssi> it's .055" trace space for 700V
[03:27:36] <Tom_itx> what's the temp rise on the board?
[03:28:15] <ssi> 10C I think?
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[03:28:20] <ssi> I'd have to ask the engineer that did these boards
[03:28:30] <ssi> I'm just reworking a little bit of this one for him
[03:29:21] <Tom_itx> i've never messed with anything more than regular mains
[03:29:40] <Tom_itx> and i'm not sure i did that right... just for my toaster oven
[03:30:38] <ssi> so I'm about to start working on my rev2 coverter board
[03:30:48] <ssi> and I'm debating whether I want to stick with cpld, or put a small fpga on it instead
[03:31:01] <ssi> small spartan6 LX is only $10
[03:31:11] <ssi> i'll need a prom for it, and probably more voltage rails
[03:31:18] <ssi> so it might add $10 or $15 to the total per board cost
[03:31:21] <ssi> but probabl yworth it
[03:31:24] <Tom_itx> which one loads the data externally?
[03:31:28] <ssi> fpga
[03:31:29] <Tom_itx> i can't remember...
[03:31:35] <ssi> cplds have internal flash, fpgas need an external prom
[03:31:40] <Tom_itx> so you'd need a eeprom etc
[03:31:52] <ssi> that's not such a big deal though
[03:32:22] <ssi> I want to put enough hardware on this board that I can use it to experiment with making a smartserial slave
[03:32:39] <Tom_itx> i noticed you talking about that earlier
[03:32:46] <ssi> I think it'd be super neat
[03:33:27] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:33:42] <ssi> hm for $16 I can move up to the LX9
[03:33:49] <ssi> which is actually the same fpga that's on the new mesa cards
[03:34:02] <ssi> the $11 part is an LX4
[03:34:16] <ssi> 4k LEs vs 9k LEs
[03:35:08] <ssi> it's probably horribly overkill
[03:35:54] <Connor> ssi: Dude, I think you've went down the rabbit hole...
[03:36:00] <ssi> Connor: yeah, it happens :(
[03:36:17] <ssi> spinning a pcb takes long enough and costs enough money that you want to make it do everything!
[03:36:17] <Connor> ssi: Yup.. Happens to me ALL the f**king time.
[03:36:20] <ssi> hahah
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[03:39:09] <Connor> ssi: Trying to figure out how I'm going to route my one-shot oiler stuff and what fittings and stuff I need..
[03:39:10] <ssi> what I need to do first is figure out all my IO
[03:39:20] <ssi> and then from the IO figure out what the smallest possible pld is
[03:39:25] <ssi> physically
[03:39:26] <Connor> Yup. I did the same thing
[03:40:04] <ssi> I want to make this one have provisions to take all the feedback signals into the pld, and have wiring options for regular hall motors as well as the fanuc motors
[03:40:46] <Connor> Had to take my iphone 4s apart.. stupid head phone jack was messed up.. I cleaned it and everything and still thought it had ear phones plugged into it.. damn.. talk about tiny ass screws.. that's the second time I've had to tear into that phone.
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[03:41:48] <zeeshan> what does pld stand for
[03:41:57] <ssi> programmable logic device
[03:42:00] <zeeshan> ah
[03:42:03] <zeeshan> like a PLC? :D
[03:42:03] <ssi> and I'm using it in this context to mean a cpld or fpga
[03:42:07] <ssi> no
[03:42:07] <ssi> heh
[03:42:09] <zeeshan> nm
[03:42:45] <zeeshan> ssi why are you designing custom boards
[03:43:12] <ssi> because I can
[03:43:23] <zeeshan> what is point
[03:43:30] <ssi> the commutation conversion primarily
[03:43:46] <zeeshan> ah
[03:43:57] <zeeshan> fancy servos
[03:44:01] <zeeshan> need fancy electronics
[03:44:02] <zeeshan> i get it :P
[03:44:14] <ssi> proprietary servos need proprietary electronics
[03:44:22] <zeeshan> fakin fanuc
[03:44:23] <zeeshan> :)
[03:44:27] <ssi> exactly
[03:48:34] <zeeshan> yo ssi
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[03:48:41] <zeeshan> your idea about ripping the guts out from a panel
[03:48:42] <zeeshan> would work
[03:48:57] <zeeshan> but i think you'd need bolt down circuit breakers
[03:49:10] <zeeshan> the guts off these things detatch very easily
[03:49:25] <ssi> hm
[03:49:54] <ssi> I wonder if i should make a provision to run a brake on these boards
[03:49:55] <ssi> that could be neat
[03:50:06] <ssi> small relay, phoenix block for the brake power supply
[03:53:37] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0mlj77CEAAtGdj.png:large
[03:53:45] <ssi> that should cover pretty much any servo I might want to use
[03:54:06] <ssi> or should I include tach lines just for giggles
[03:55:20] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0ml-GrIYAAFGOa.png:large
[03:55:20] <ssi> there
[03:56:05] <zeeshan> you have tachs?
[03:56:14] <ssi> no
[03:56:22] <ssi> but i want to make this generic enough that I can use it for any motor
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[05:11:44] <ssi> haha so I was reading the 7i77 manual and I started wondering about the encoder count limits
[05:11:57] <ssi> my servos run about 39k lines per inch
[05:12:00] <ssi> er, counts per inch
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[05:12:12] <ssi> 3000 line encoders on 8mm screws
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[05:12:57] <ssi> default settings limit to about 2MHz count rate on the encoders
[05:13:04] <ssi> if I did the math right, that limits me to 50ips
[05:13:32] <ssi> I think that'll be enough for the VMC! hahahah
[05:13:40] <ssi> (the plasma table runs close to that fast though :P)
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[05:43:17] <ssi> CaptHindsight: found a new process for the maker kids to claim they invented
[05:43:20] <ssi> CaptHindsight: laser deposition welding
[05:43:24] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao319dj6kiM
[05:44:03] <ssi> it's like SINTERJETTING
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[12:59:18] <jdh> it's like sputtering.
[13:00:06] <jdh> we have had some 3d metal parts made by one of our other plants. They look good, but require grinding for any kind of surface finish.
[13:01:50] <_methods> yeah i think i saw an okuma machining/sintering center 5axis
[13:01:56] <_methods> real beast
[13:02:05] <_methods> build up a part then machine it to final specs
[13:02:17] <_methods> i'll have to find that video
[13:05:03] <_methods> ah maybe it was a dmg mori
[13:05:31] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA
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[14:54:27] <lair82> Hey Guys, looking thru the Troubleshooting wiki, under section 4.1.5 I see a recommendation to reduce latency of a parameter of "radeon.modeset=0", is that something I do from the command line, or do I add it to the grub.cfg file?
[15:00:58] <t12> is anyone up for help with a german translation? Whats a Typradprgeransteuerung
[15:03:49] <_methods> touch screen control?
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[15:05:06] <t12> the related documentation implies its some kind of engraving machine
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[15:15:12] <ssi> morn
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[15:17:04] <_methods> t12 try askin now
[15:17:29] <_methods> Loetmichel is german i believe
[15:18:38] <Loetmichel> ia m
[15:19:13] <t12> What's a Typradprgeransteuerung
[15:19:19] <Loetmichel> t12: do you have context for me?
[15:19:28] <t12> plc documentation uh
[15:19:28] <t12> sec
[15:19:51] <t12> theres references to line, column feeds
[15:20:02] <t12> cam drive and position monitor
[15:20:10] <Loetmichel> i would put that into a dymo printer electronics, and there in the controller for the letter wheel that embosses the characters into the plastic strip
[15:20:47] <t12> i guess this controller drives multiple totally unrelated things
[15:20:54] <ssi> letter pusher controller?
[15:20:55] <t12> but only the few with special documentation
[15:20:55] <ssi> heheh
[15:21:11] <t12> it also drives a bunch of stuff on this microscope
[15:21:27] <Loetmichel> "typrad" -> "letter wheel
[15:21:38] <Loetmichel> präger: embosser
[15:21:46] <Loetmichel> steuerung: controller
[15:21:58] <t12> cool
[15:21:59] <t12> thanks!
[15:22:06] <t12> hopefully i can get through the document with google translate
[15:22:18] <t12> i've kinda half reverse engineering the protocol but theres a bunch of loose ends
[15:22:43] <ssi> what is it?
[15:22:45] <Loetmichel> looks like me getting my bosses wife to translate the VFD manuial to me...
[15:22:50] <Loetmichel> taht was Funny
[15:23:24] <Loetmichel> "ok, this chinese symol meaqns circle, thios one "in the middle and the last one means Power... but i have no idea waht thasw meant in this context!"
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[15:23:46] <Loetmichel> ... *me thinking a momment* "ah, zwichenkreisspannung!"
[15:24:06] <t12> lol
[15:24:08] <t12> CIRCLE POWER DRIVE
[15:24:12] <Loetmichel> (intermeadieat ddc Voltage)
[15:24:18] <Loetmichel> -d
[15:24:44] <Loetmichel> and we did this way for about two dozen parameters
[15:25:21] <archivist> hehe I had fun with this http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/data/hob/index.html
[15:25:49] <ssi> hahah
[15:26:06] <ssi> that'd be extra hard, cause nobody actually speaks german
[15:26:13] <ssi> er
[15:26:15] <ssi> russian
[15:26:19] <ssi> lots of people speak german :P
[15:26:27] <zeeshan> when i was learning theory of elasticity
[15:26:33] <zeeshan> the father of it was stephen timoshenko
[15:26:40] <zeeshan> all of his older stuff was in russian!
[15:26:42] <archivist> we did have a rusky or two in the past
[15:26:42] <t12> i had the old manual for a zmm metalik lathe
[15:26:49] <t12> it was a blueprint copy from 1973
[15:27:01] <ssi> I'm pretty sure the cyrillic alphabet was invented for cold-war era movies
[15:27:03] <t12> seeminly typeset on a typewriter
[15:27:08] <archivist> zeeshan, I have his book...in english
[15:27:11] <ssi> just to look menacing
[15:27:16] <zeeshan> archivist: me tooo
[15:27:21] <zeeshan> but his older lectures
[15:27:27] <t12> the drawings were very good though
[15:27:27] <zeeshan> when he was first developing the theory is in rusian
[15:27:36] <zeeshan> archivist: which book
[15:27:38] <zeeshan> he's got like 15
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[15:28:27] <Loetmichel> ssi: a lot of people here sleak arussiion AND german actually
[15:28:30] <Loetmichel> s0peak
[15:28:35] <ssi> steak?!
[15:28:38] <Loetmichel> speak russion
[15:28:41] <Loetmichel> grrrrrr
[15:28:43] <ssi> :)
[15:28:58] <Loetmichel> because the are from eatern germany and learned it in schoool
[15:29:11] <ssi> makes sense
[15:30:16] <archivist> hmm cannot find at the moment
[15:30:44] <zeeshan> i found out
[15:30:51] <zeeshan> my machine is both horizontal and vertical mill
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[15:30:55] <zeeshan> :D
[15:31:08] <zeeshan> thanks to asah
[15:31:09] <zeeshan> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ti3t81sxkky36in/AADfL8rQu2Mxg8N-wweaOY8ga/maho400e6.jpg?dl=0
[15:31:11] * JT-Shop thinks the first glass of cognac last night was a mistake
[15:31:17] <zeeshan> its very similar to the mh 500
[15:31:19] <Loetmichel> the chinese booses wife comes in handy sometimes, 'cause we have a lot of ordering in china directly going here ;-)
[15:31:24] <zeeshan> but i only have a broshure for mh 400
[15:32:11] <Loetmichel> ... and its nice when i can tell the chinese sales reps that i will patch them over to the boss,to talk about "tat matter" and then hear a bunch of yelling singsang from the upper office ;-)
[15:32:22] <Loetmichel> and the matter is cleared in no time ;-)
[15:33:45] <Loetmichel> i dont speak chinses, but from the tone of it she gets qwuite rude with some of the suppliers ;-)
[15:34:38] <ssi> JT-Shop: just the first?
[15:34:55] <_methods> you're not liable after the first one
[15:35:32] <ssi> lol
[15:35:52] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: you think that's bad, you should try visiting any of their national landmarks
[15:36:24] <Loetmichel> why?
[15:37:35] <CaptHindsight> you have to run the gauntlet of interpreters/guides
[15:37:50] <Loetmichel> i dont really know how she gets away with it. if a customer would puto out that tone to me i ould simply hang up on him or her. dBTDT multiple times
[15:38:12] <Loetmichel> -d
[15:38:48] <Loetmichel> "call back when you are less irate!" *click*
[15:41:10] <zeeshan> man
[15:41:18] <zeeshan> so remember my first quote of BX 3/3 cable?
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[15:41:23] <zeeshan> $363 for 50 feet
[15:41:32] <zeeshan> i posted a wanted to buy ad on kijiji
[15:41:39] <zeeshan> $80 for 50 feet :)
[15:42:38] <ssi> I don't trust that site
[15:42:45] <ssi> too many dots in a row
[15:42:45] <zeeshan> why
[15:42:51] <zeeshan> haha
[15:42:56] <ssi> it's just not natural
[15:43:01] <zeeshan> its big up here in canada
[15:43:10] <zeeshan> as big as craigslist is in usa
[15:44:57] tronwzrd is now known as tronwizard
[15:45:57] <zeeshan> cnc experts
[15:46:04] <zeeshan> ive posted on practicalmachinist with no luck
[15:46:13] <zeeshan> my machine says it uses a iso40 tool holder
[15:46:16] <JT-Shop> ssi, yea cause I don't remember the second one
[15:46:18] <zeeshan> but i have no clue how it holds it in there
[15:46:21] <zeeshan> do you guys know?
[15:46:29] <zeeshan> it uses a hydraulic draw bar..
[15:46:32] <JT-Shop> pull stud
[15:46:42] <ssi> pull stud I imagine
[15:46:51] <zeeshan> theres like 29021309 pull studs though
[15:46:54] <zeeshan> how do i figure out which one :(
[15:46:55] <_methods> yep
[15:47:06] <_methods> gotta find the right pullstud for your machine
[15:47:09] <ssi> haha I just went through this
[15:47:15] <ssi> the cincinnati ones are kinda unusual
[15:47:17] <zeeshan> Asah who has the mh 400e
[15:47:20] <zeeshan> uses a mazak pull stud
[15:47:29] <zeeshan> but i dunno if it's the same as mine
[15:47:31] <ssi> actually my box o' shars pull studs will be here today
[15:47:38] <JT-Shop> send an email to Mari
[15:47:46] <zeeshan> mari?
[15:48:07] <JT-Shop> http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders?gclid=CLb4vuePw8ECFQqEfgodBXoArw
[15:48:51] <JT-Shop> tell them what machine you have and they will tell you the correct holder and pull stud
[15:49:01] <zeeshan> thank you jt
[15:49:32] <JT-Shop> np
[15:49:42] <ssi> JT-Shop: did you see the pile of cat40 tooling I got? I'm so excited haha
[15:49:52] <JT-Shop> no, I missed it
[15:49:55] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0hrO_EIUAEN4IU.jpg:large
[15:50:25] <JT-Shop> nice, all new
[15:50:28] <ssi> yeah
[15:50:33] <ssi> it's chinese stuff, CMI
[15:50:37] <ssi> but seems reasonably nice for the money
[15:50:42] <_methods> hell yeah
[15:50:47] <ssi> it was like $400 for all that, including the collet set
[15:50:55] <_methods> unless you're doing stuff where you need to hold .0001"
[15:51:01] <_methods> that shit will work just fine
[15:51:04] <JT-Shop> I spent a ton on tooling for my VMC
[15:51:18] <ssi> _methods: yeah and if i get there, I'll buy a holder or two for the precision work
[15:51:23] <_methods> yeah
[15:51:30] <ssi> JT-Shop: I spent probably $3k on tooling for my HNC
[15:51:31] <zeeshan> fak chinese toolz
[15:51:36] <zeeshan> glacern!!
[15:51:37] <zeeshan> :D
[15:52:34] <ssi> glacern's cat40 toolholders are like 4x more money than these were
[15:53:03] <ssi> the nickel plate looks cool tho
[15:53:03] <ssi> haha
[15:53:53] <zeeshan> they say <0.0001" concentricity
[15:53:57] <zeeshan> though that being said
[15:53:57] <jdh> pretty is worth a little.
[15:54:02] <zeeshan> i know the chinese are good.
[15:54:07] <zeeshan> chinese are around 0.0005"
[15:54:11] <ssi> the cmi holders were like $40 apiece
[15:54:16] <ssi> the glacern are $130-150
[15:54:22] <zeeshan> you should hook em up on your machine
[15:54:24] <zeeshan> and measure the runout
[15:54:28] <ssi> i will
[15:54:30] <zeeshan> do you has a tenths indicator
[15:54:34] <ssi> yeah, a few
[15:54:50] <zeeshan> how about half a ten thousandths? :D
[15:54:54] <ssi> might
[15:54:58] <ssi> I'd have to look
[15:55:05] <zeeshan> liesss
[15:55:07] <zeeshan> theyre so rare
[15:55:11] <_methods> collet holders will have runout
[15:55:16] <_methods> the spring collets have runout
[15:55:26] <zeeshan> methods yea
[15:55:43] <ssi> yeah I'll likely chuck up a testbar in a collet and see how it runs
[15:55:47] <zeeshan> i take those precision dowels
[15:55:49] <ssi> but not til after the spindle bearings are replaced
[15:55:50] <zeeshan> and measure em
[15:55:51] <_methods> unless you just want to practice measuring stuff lol
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[15:56:01] <ssi> measuring is fun :P
[15:56:10] <zeeshan> whats wrong with your bearings
[15:56:19] <ssi> they're trash
[15:56:23] <ssi> it came with new bearings
[15:56:29] <zeeshan> like when you spin the chuck
[15:56:32] <zeeshan> it catches?
[15:56:36] <zeeshan> or grinds?
[15:56:37] <ssi> no, they're just loud as hell
[15:56:39] <zeeshan> o
[15:57:04] <archivist> you dont need a tenths indicator! it will show up on a crap dti
[15:57:40] <ssi> https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/303191_725209428042_2131740446_n.jpg?oh=5b5a04fe6473e65c195ff1f31fa600d9&oe=54BB46A5
[16:00:07] <archivist> I just mounter an ER16 chuck on the lorch, it is rather junk
[16:00:11] <archivist> mounted
[16:00:50] <ssi> how so
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[16:01:24] <zeeshan> damn internets
[16:02:17] <archivist> ssi just a cheap one and/or poor collets
[16:02:24] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: is mari tools "made in usa"?
[16:02:56] <zeeshan> ssi nice dual indicators!
[16:02:57] <zeeshan> :P
[16:03:20] <ssi> those are just the half-mil indicators
[16:03:25] <ssi> I went to the tenths indicators after that
[16:03:33] <zeeshan> those look like starrett last word indicators
[16:03:35] <zeeshan> 1 thou
[16:03:40] <ssi> one of them is
[16:04:17] <zeeshan> starrett makes 0.5 thou last word indicators?
[16:04:29] <JT-Shop> the tool holders and pull studs are made in usa
[16:05:01] <zeeshan> what about the er collets?
[16:05:30] <zeeshan> they are pretty cheap
[16:05:37] <zeeshan> 97 bux for a bt40 er32 collet chuck
[16:06:07] <ssi> the pullstud thing is kind of a nightmare
[16:06:13] <_methods> yes
[16:06:22] <_methods> pullstuds are really annoying
[16:06:27] <zeeshan> cnc some
[16:06:27] <_methods> the mazak ones
[16:06:29] <_methods> piss me off
[16:06:29] <zeeshan> out of tool steel!
[16:06:33] <zeeshan> why methods
[16:06:35] <ssi> zeeshan: they have to be pretty critical
[16:06:37] <_methods> they strip
[16:06:46] <_methods> the wrench flats are too small
[16:06:50] <ssi> and i have no heat treating experience
[16:07:04] <_methods> haas pullstuds are alright
[16:07:30] <ssi> I bought some from shars, they're about the only place I could find that had cincinnati spec studs that weren't $18 apiece
[16:07:32] <zeeshan> i e-mailed mari tool
[16:07:35] <ssi> actually there's the UPS man, deliving my studs
[16:07:41] <zeeshan> i hope they're okay
[16:07:53] <zeeshan> and tell me my machine specs!
[16:08:26] <jdh> I've been fighting a Series-6 since 7am
[16:08:30] <jdh> so far, it's winning.
[16:09:03] <JT-Shop> you don't use a wrench on a pull stud, you need a special socket to install and torque them
[16:09:46] <zeeshan> yea i've seen that at the tool room before
[16:09:50] <zeeshan> a weird looking socket
[16:09:54] <CaptHindsight> I find pull studs sold in lots on ebay for a few $ea, most are new
[16:10:40] <JT-Shop> my HCL must be getting worn out it's taking forever to strip the parts
[16:10:46] <ssi> CaptHindsight: yeuah I've seen those but not in the size I need :/
[16:10:55] <ssi> JT-Shop: anodizing?
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[16:11:21] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: do you know the difference between cat40 and iso40?
[16:11:35] <JT-Shop> ssi, powder coating
[16:11:39] <ssi> the difference is the flange and its position relative to the gage l ine
[16:11:43] <JT-Shop> zeeshan, no clue
[16:11:46] <ssi> JT-Shop: ah... I did a bit of that last weeek
[16:11:50] <zeeshan> http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/johne-co-prazisionswerkzeuge/starflex-catalogue/65662-156419-_5.html
[16:12:07] <zeeshan> ss i dont see a difference :P
[16:12:19] <zeeshan> cat40 looks fatter
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[16:12:34] <JT-Shop> my tooling for the 308 http://gnipsel.com/images/Discovery-308/
[16:12:58] <zeeshan> thsoe carbide burrs? :D
[16:13:03] <ssi> um, iso looks like it doesn't have a V-flange
[16:13:10] <ssi> do you have an ATC?
[16:13:14] <zeeshan> no atc
[16:13:19] <zeeshan> its just hydraulic drawbar
[16:13:21] <ssi> then you can probbaly run any of the 40 taper tools
[16:13:56] <ssi> I know that my machine can run BT40 or CAT40, but you sort of have to set up for one or the other, because the toolchange height is different
[16:14:14] <zeeshan> it looks like bt40, cat40 , iso40
[16:14:19] <zeeshan> all are threaded to m16..
[16:14:27] <ssi> CAT is usually 5/8
[16:14:34] <zeeshan> "ansi/cat 40"
[16:14:38] <zeeshan> in this chart
[16:15:08] <ssi> BT40 is british tooling, it's metric, then caterpillar made their own standard with the same taper and dimensions, changed the flange and the pullstud thread and called it cat40
[16:15:32] <zeeshan> cat40/bt40/iso40 looks like 68.25/65.4/75mm in height
[16:15:54] <zeeshan> ssi by the flange
[16:16:00] <zeeshan> youre talking about the position of where the dog teeth engage right
[16:16:06] <ssi> the taper's the same on all of them, the thing you need to be worried about is the distance from the top of the flange to the gage line, and the drive notch
[16:16:10] <ssi> yes
[16:16:16] <zeeshan> from the centerline of cat40 vs bt40 its 22.6 vs 22.5 mm
[16:16:21] <zeeshan> and 22.5 mm for iso 40
[16:16:28] <zeeshan> so i think the dog teeth will work the same in all 3
[16:16:39] <zeeshan> they are slightly fatter though
[16:16:43] <zeeshan> the keys themself..
[16:17:06] <ssi> yea I dunno
[16:17:14] <ssi> safest bet is to get iso40 holders
[16:17:15] <ssi> heh
[16:17:17] <JT-Shop> carbide burrs?
[16:17:17] <zeeshan> key width 16.4 (cat40), 16.1(bt40), 16.1(iso40)
[16:17:34] <zeeshan> ssi they are hard to find
[16:17:37] <zeeshan> bt40 is everywhere
[16:17:40] <JT-Shop> the second photo is taps and tap drills and some insert holders
[16:17:41] <zeeshan> same with cat
[16:17:43] <ssi> it's worth trying
[16:17:47] <ssi> test fit it without a pullstud
[16:17:54] <zeeshan> http://gnipsel.com/images/Discovery-308/tooling%2002.jpg
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[16:17:57] <ssi> if you let the machine pull the holder up into the spindle, and there's interference
[16:17:58] <zeeshan> those 3 things
[16:18:00] <zeeshan> are the back row
[16:18:03] <ssi> you're gonna have a hell of a time getting it out
[16:18:04] <zeeshan> to the left
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[16:18:19] <zeeshan> ssi yea man
[16:18:35] <zeeshan> i think have a couple of #40 tool holders
[16:18:44] <zeeshan> i dont know what kind of thread in the end, ill check
[16:18:49] <zeeshan> but they have no pull st uds
[16:19:24] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: carbide burr in a holder might be a cool idea
[16:19:25] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: did you run your wire and pipe yet?
[16:19:29] <zeeshan> to use for finish contouring
[16:19:36] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: im picking up the 3/3 cable today
[16:19:37] <zeeshan> no pipe
[16:19:41] <zeeshan> its armour cable
[16:21:43] <ssi> good lord these dogs need a bath
[16:23:12] <ssi> zeeshan: you try those drives yet?
[16:23:18] <zeeshan> the VFD?
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[16:23:36] <ssi> the amc drives
[16:23:42] <zeeshan> havent gotten em yet
[16:23:46] <ssi> oh I thought you did
[16:23:52] <zeeshan> vfd i got
[16:24:25] <ssi> you commented last night about the size of the drives
[16:24:31] <ssi> I guess you were talking about the picture I posted
[16:24:32] <zeeshan> i was looking at your pics
[16:24:37] <zeeshan> relative to your ke yboard
[16:24:51] <zeeshan> theyre no kl8070D's
[16:24:52] <zeeshan> thats for sure
[16:25:05] <ssi> they're not that much bigger
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[16:25:36] <ssi> they're 7.25 x 4 x 2.375
[16:26:06] <ssi> and they mount on either the bottom or the back; I like mounting them on the back because they take up less space
[16:26:17] <ssi> takes a 7.25x2.375" footprint in the box, 4" deep
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[16:26:36] <zeeshan> you mean standing them up?
[16:26:39] <ssi> yeah
[16:26:41] <zeeshan> yea
[16:26:43] <ssi> like it was in the picture
[16:26:45] <zeeshan> yes
[16:26:59] <zeeshan> do you know if these drives a emit a lot of noise?
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[16:27:14] <ssi> not that I've ever had issue with
[16:27:18] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/ci50ock.png
[16:27:22] <zeeshan> i was thinking of moving them into the box
[16:27:25] <zeeshan> with the sensitive electronics
[16:27:36] <zeeshan> and mounting a din rail with fuse holders
[16:27:40] <zeeshan> in their place
[16:28:26] <ssi> if you're going to go to the trouble to have noise isolation for your electronics, I'd keep the drives on the outside of it
[16:29:09] <zeeshan> okay
[16:29:20] <zeeshan> will need to find a place to put the fuse holders somewhere
[16:29:25] <CaptHindsight> watch those ground loops
[16:29:38] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: all ground will be in a star
[16:29:42] <zeeshan> or at a single bus bar
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[16:30:27] <ssi> heh this drawing calls out a 1.3mm corner radius
[16:30:50] <ssi> might be better off figuring out a way to lasercut these
[16:31:02] <zeeshan> oi ssi
[16:31:12] <zeeshan> what kind of cable are you using to power your drives
[16:31:18] <zeeshan> it looks like the same cable that goes into a computer psu
[16:31:22] <ssi> yeah it is
[16:31:22] <zeeshan> but those are like 14 awg
[16:31:25] <zeeshan> arent they
[16:31:31] <ssi> they come in many flavors
[16:31:35] <zeeshan> ah i didnt know that
[16:32:15] <zeeshan> i need a break for a couple days from this stuff :)
[16:32:25] <zeeshan> got an exam coming up
[16:33:31] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: you don't need this http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-diamond-3-3-high-speed-hdmi-cable-dark-gray-black/2383276.p?id=1218324437192
[16:33:57] <zeeshan> only 1095$
[16:33:58] <zeeshan> nice
[16:34:42] <ssi> awshit
[16:34:46] <ssi> was gonna say you could put these in your box
[16:34:49] <ssi> and plug the drives into them
[16:34:50] <ssi> http://www.parts-express.com/wattgate-381-audio-grade-duplex-receptacle-outlet--110-439
[16:34:53] <ssi> but they're no longer available!
[16:34:56] <ssi> they were only $150 apiece
[16:35:05] <zeeshan> im chopping the other end of the wire
[16:35:12] <zeeshan> and plugging em in right to the breaker!
[16:35:20] <ssi> but gold plated outlet!
[16:35:24] <zeeshan> oh sheet
[16:35:27] <zeeshan> i didnt see the gold plating
[16:35:30] <ssi> how are you gonna hear all the detail in your beautiful servo music?!
[16:36:40] <zeeshan> what is this nonsense
[16:36:46] <zeeshan> paypal changed its layout
[16:37:59] <ssi> I need to figure out how to make solidworks default all dimension callouts to three digit precision
[16:38:15] <ssi> it defaults to 2 and that drives me nuts :P
[16:38:19] <ReadError> ssi its there
[16:38:23] <ssi> I know
[16:38:27] <ReadError> i changed it a few months back
[16:38:28] <ssi> I just haven't taken the time to find it
[16:38:36] <zeeshan> open a drawing
[16:38:37] <zeeshan> or pdf
[16:38:38] <ReadError> document properties or somethin i think
[16:38:45] <zeeshan> tools, options
[16:38:58] <zeeshan> document properties
[16:38:59] <zeeshan> units
[16:39:33] <zeeshan> thats one thing i dont like about inventor..
[16:39:38] <zeeshan> i have yet to find a person
[16:39:43] <zeeshan> who can convert units on the fly
[16:39:50] <zeeshan> so if you start a mm drawing, you cant change units
[16:39:53] <zeeshan> but in solidworks you can do it
[16:40:59] <_methods> they still haven't changed that?
[16:41:23] <zeeshan> i guess not
[16:41:27] <_methods> you couldn't open 4 view windows either for when you're working on stuff from a bunch of diff angles
[16:43:42] <zeeshan> the one thing i really like about inventor
[16:43:44] <zeeshan> is sheet metal
[16:44:07] <_methods> yeah there are some sheet metal things i like better
[16:44:17] <_methods> i like where you can connect to separate bodies
[16:44:43] <ssi> I need to do some sheetmetal design soon
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[16:45:04] <ssi> unfortunately the only brake I have access to isn't great, you can't change the bend radius allowance
[16:45:12] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[16:45:34] <_methods> what's that have to do with the brake
[16:45:40] <zeeshan> i waas wondering
[16:45:41] <zeeshan> that too :P
[16:46:00] <ssi> you can't move the fingers back from the corner
[16:46:12] <ssi> so it attempts to make an infinitely small bend radius regardless of sheet thickness
[16:46:36] <_methods> you can't just plug in your centerline for the hit?
[16:46:56] <ssi> eh?
[16:47:04] <ssi> I'm not talking cad
[16:47:07] <_methods> where you bend is called the hitline
[16:47:08] <ssi> I'm talking fabrication
[16:47:21] <_methods> or bendlie
[16:47:34] <_methods> yeah i'm talkig about fab too
[16:47:45] <_methods> your break doesn't care about the bend radius
[16:47:49] <_methods> it just goes up and down
[16:48:15] <ssi> it's not a press brake
[16:48:21] <zeeshan> i thought the fingers dictated
[16:48:23] <zeeshan> the bend radius
[16:48:23] <_methods> pan brake?
[16:48:25] <ssi> yes
[16:48:37] <_methods> yeah so you're bending sharp
[16:48:54] <_methods> you just need to plug that into your cad
[16:49:00] <ssi> ok
[16:49:10] <ssi> when I get to it I'll have more questions I'm sure :P
[16:49:11] <zeeshan> it takes forever
[16:49:13] <_methods> whatever radius you're making put that in your cad
[16:49:14] <zeeshan> to set it up in cad
[16:49:23] <zeeshan> i think trial and error is quickest
[16:49:26] <_methods> it's not that hard to set up in cad
[16:49:28] <zeeshan> setup a drawing in cad
[16:49:31] <zeeshan> go bend it
[16:49:33] <zeeshan> find the difference
[16:49:37] <_methods> for steel i just use .43 for kfactor
[16:49:37] <zeeshan> fiddle wit hthe K factor
[16:49:42] <_methods> and alum i use .5
[16:49:56] <_methods> stick with that and from there it's just small adjustment
[16:50:03] <ssi> zeeshan: it's gonna be more annoying than that
[16:50:06] <_methods> if you have to be dead on you can cut test strips
[16:50:11] <ssi> cause my plasma cutter is here, and the brake is at the airport
[16:50:15] <zeeshan> LOL
[16:50:17] <zeeshan> :D
[16:50:25] <ssi> maybe I ought to wait til I can get the plasma table moved
[16:50:26] <zeeshan> well im sure your bends dont need to be stupid accurate
[16:50:30] <ssi> no they don't
[16:50:36] <ssi> I just want to make a box for the control station for the vmc
[16:50:39] <zeeshan> so methods values will get you in the ball park
[16:50:46] <ssi> 20g CR sheet
[16:50:56] <zeeshan> i can't see it being out by more than 1/16 "
[16:51:02] <_methods> nah
[16:51:18] <_methods> 20ga is cake
[16:51:39] <_methods> shit you could probably bend that with a straight edge and a table
[16:51:54] <zeeshan> haha
[16:51:55] <_methods> hardly ever get work that light
[16:52:10] <zeeshan> anyway, if you really need precise bends
[16:52:11] <_methods> 18 ga is heaven
[16:52:12] <zeeshan> within 15 thou or so
[16:52:27] <zeeshan> you usually start with the K factor formula
[16:52:45] <zeeshan> which is depending on bend radius, material thickness, bend allowance
[16:52:47] <zeeshan> and one more factor
[16:52:50] <zeeshan> um
[16:52:51] <zeeshan> bend angle
[16:53:17] <zeeshan> then you go do a test bend, and then find the difference and modify it in your cad, and do it once more to verify
[16:53:18] <_methods> lol don't make it more complicated than it needs to be
[16:53:23] <zeeshan> it sucks cause you gotta do this for all your thicknesses
[16:53:25] <_methods> .5 for alum
[16:53:30] <_methods> .43 for steel
[16:53:32] <_methods> life is good
[16:53:51] <ssi> _methods: I'll play with it
[16:54:08] <_methods> try and get your cad radius as close as possible to what your real life radius is
[16:54:09] <ssi> I hope the 20g is heavy enough for what I want
[16:54:13] <zeeshan> http://sheetmetal.me/k-factor/
[16:54:18] <_methods> i'm assuming you have limited fingers
[16:54:20] <zeeshan> this pretty much laid out the procedure i followed
[16:54:20] <ssi> I'll cut a couple coupons and take them down and bend them
[16:54:35] <ssi> _methods: oh I'm sure they're limited, but in what capacity do you mean? :)
[16:54:44] <_methods> the sharp
[16:54:50] <_methods> the radius on the fingers
[16:54:56] <ssi> yeah there's only one set of fingers and I think they're all pretty small radius
[16:55:02] <_methods> yeah
[16:55:16] <_methods> you can get other fingers if you want to get a certain inside radius
[16:55:26] <ssi> that's not likely to happen
[16:55:28] <ssi> this isn't my brake btw
[16:55:40] <ssi> it's Dan's, and he's done nothing but complain about how terrible it is
[16:55:45] <ssi> possibly he just doesn't know how to run it
[16:55:47] <ssi> god knows I don't
[16:55:49] <_methods> yeah just bend something in the material you plan to use
[16:55:56] <_methods> then put a radius ga on it
[16:56:08] <ssi> yea I can do that
[16:56:10] <_methods> then use that radius in your cad models to develop your flats
[16:56:39] <_methods> how many bends on the parts you're doign?
[16:56:46] <zeeshan> ssi how much weight is in the control box
[16:57:11] <ssi> _methods: I dunno yet, I gotta figure out what the most practical way to make it is
[16:57:19] <_methods> kk
[16:57:38] <ssi> zeeshan: um, a 22" lcd that my calibrated arm says weighs six pounds
[16:57:44] <ssi> a mini itx pc that's under a pound
[16:57:53] <ssi> and whatever switches I want to put in the front panel
[16:58:01] <ssi> honestly it won't be that much
[16:58:06] <zeeshan> 20 gauge sounds good :P
[16:58:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Press-Brake-55T-Dreis-Krump-1012B-Perm-Flanged-12-O-A-106-B-H-67-/251530223768 tempting
[16:58:09] <ssi> the old control OSA was very very heavy
[16:58:14] <ssi> and I think the box is 16ga
[16:58:28] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: let me put that in my garagfe
[16:59:00] <_methods> yeah that's a classic right there
[16:59:22] <_methods> nice thing about them is you can punch on them
[16:59:41] <CaptHindsight> lost of these lately
[16:59:44] <ssi> I'd like to get a press brake
[16:59:46] <ssi> but not quite that big
[16:59:47] <CaptHindsight> lots
[16:59:57] <_methods> yeah osha
[17:00:12] <_methods> if you have one in your shop anymore you can't get insurance
[17:00:24] <CaptHindsight> too dangerous?
[17:00:26] <_methods> yeah
[17:00:30] <archivist> I want a small one for models made in tinplate
[17:00:31] <_methods> punches like that too
[17:00:34] <_methods> old obi
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[17:00:47] <_methods> that rolling key clutch
[17:01:03] <_methods> they would get stuck and then fire whenpeople got their hands under there
[17:01:16] <_methods> once it starts it's downstroke thats it
[17:01:47] <CaptHindsight> _methods: what the OSHA approved replacement?
[17:02:14] <archivist> enough guard?
[17:02:16] <_methods> hydraulic
[17:02:34] <_methods> or electric
[17:02:48] <_methods> some of these high precision presses use servos
[17:02:51] <_methods> toyokoki
[17:03:11] <_methods> but you can't use punches on them anymore
[17:03:16] <archivist> saw one at a show, incredible stop time
[17:03:23] <_methods> cause the rams get out of alignment and get stuck
[17:03:36] <_methods> then you're fucked
[17:03:49] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Verson-25-ton-Press-Brake-single-phase-elcetric-with-light-curtains-/281455945491 with light curtains
[17:04:11] <_methods> yeah that's what they want on everything anymore
[17:04:19] <_methods> light curtains everywhere lol
[17:04:36] <_methods> makes doing old school sheetmetal hard
[17:04:39] <ssi> is that like meat curtains?
[17:04:40] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: in your backyard http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hydraulic-brake-press-/171511422550
[17:04:41] <_methods> bumping is a bitch
[17:05:01] <_methods> bumping square to rounds on old presses was easy
[17:05:19] <_methods> now it's a pain in the ass
[17:07:24] <CaptHindsight> can't they just make the operating switches only work when your hands are in your pockets?
[17:08:12] <ssi> safety ruins everything
[17:09:15] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiK3-UqQG64&t=50
[17:09:20] <CaptHindsight> I was in sheet metal shop in China last year. Not a single guard on any machine. They had >20 presses
[17:09:49] <CaptHindsight> no piles of fingers either
[17:09:56] <ssi> they bury those
[17:10:12] <archivist> feed them to the dogs
[17:11:09] <CaptHindsight> I need to make a corner notcher
[17:13:52] <ssi> sweet, my airplane insurance went down 5% this year
[17:14:16] <archivist> old school methods https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-7bz7bmDg4
[17:15:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fhX38SvsL0 corner radius and hole punch
[17:16:07] <archivist> I was lucky to visit a live forge working with those methods
[17:16:33] <ssi> I read an article awhile back about a bigass power hammer that was still in service that used to form all the bulkheads for the p51s in ww2
[17:16:36] <jdh> the ones that lose fingers have to go work on the harbor freight products
[17:17:34] <kriskropd> someone put this in ##robotics - I thought they were beautiful :D using xwinwrap to play these as my animated wallpapers now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oHlyF0skNE&list=PL924EFA0AB5972BE5
[17:18:05] <CaptHindsight> kriskropd: is that channel no longer dead?
[17:18:15] <ssi> archivist: that's cool stuff
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[17:18:58] <kriskropd> CaptHindsight: i idle in it - i see posts every now and then O.o defning dead on IRC is like defining patience
[17:19:16] <kriskropd> CaptHindsight: when people stop going to the channel, so will I
[17:19:32] <ssi> kriskropd: haha that's an awesome video
[17:19:46] <kriskropd> ssi its a whole playlist of them :D
[17:19:54] <ssi> nice
[17:20:03] <kriskropd> beautiful with liquid drum and bass on top, for my tastes
[17:20:11] <ssi> I love lathes
[17:20:13] <ssi> I dunno why
[17:20:13] <_methods> archivist: yeah that's before my time lol
[17:20:55] <_methods> ermahgerd none of them have safety glasses
[17:20:59] <archivist> _methods, still being done as far as I know in sheffield
[17:21:23] <ssi> kriskropd: now I want a high speed camera!
[17:21:30] <ssi> would be a great way to verify feeds and speeds haha
[17:22:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPov6cu7GIQ those clips make this one look dull
[17:22:20] <_methods> hell you go into a shop anymore and they don't even have an anvil
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[17:37:03] * JT-Shop has one and the weight is stamped on the bottom
[17:37:42] <_methods> amen
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[17:40:56] <archivist> I have used one and made a few old school pipe hooks, interesting watching a real blacksmith and then doing it oneself
[17:41:37] <_methods> we use them alot to smooth weld seams on cones, square to rounds
[17:41:47] <_methods> smoothing out the radius on rolled stuff
[17:41:54] <_methods> smashing things
[17:42:35] <archivist> I thinned down some spring steel on one to make some clock hands
[17:42:55] <_methods> anvils are the shiznit
[17:43:03] <_methods> i need to get one for my garage
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[17:43:58] <archivist> I want one this was at the last day job in the garden http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=blacksmith+hands
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[17:44:17] <archivist> old PC as the blower
[17:44:28] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/misc/anvil-stand-09.jpg
[17:44:50] <zeeshan> archivist: do you have any info on mikron? :/
[17:44:58] <zeeshan> nice anvil jt!
[17:44:58] <_methods> haha awesome
[17:45:09] <_methods> mikron cnc?
[17:45:15] <zeeshan> methods yes
[17:45:22] <_methods> i've ran a couple
[17:45:24] <_methods> good machines
[17:45:25] <archivist> zeeshan, not a lot perhaps closer to 0
[17:45:30] <zeeshan> hehe
[17:45:33] <JT-Shop> everyone that saw it said it will ring loud because it is not a wooden stand... it's very quiet
[17:45:38] <zeeshan> i cant find a manual for one online :/
[17:45:45] <_methods> oh good luck
[17:46:01] <archivist> ask mikron
[17:46:13] <zeeshan> http://www.mikron.com/
[17:46:15] <_methods> did you do those clock hands yourself?
[17:46:16] <zeeshan> is that the correct mikron
[17:46:19] <JT-Shop> I love that forge
[17:46:43] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: i really like your fabrication skills
[17:47:03] <JT-Shop> thanks
[17:47:18] <archivist> _methods, we copied and scaled the left the right of each pair is what we made (I did forging and the engraving)
[17:47:29] <_methods> beautiful
[17:47:45] <archivist> dremel :)
[17:47:50] <_methods> yeah the mikron's i ran were a joint venture with chiron
[17:47:56] <_methods> they were good little machines
[17:47:58] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/framewelded1.jpg
[17:48:01] <zeeshan> my fab skills :D
[17:48:03] <_methods> vmc with a pallet changer
[17:48:15] <_methods> had like a 40 tool belt
[17:48:25] <zeeshan> methods i just wanna know what kind of pull stud my machine uses
[17:48:26] <zeeshan> :/
[17:48:27] <_methods> was great for single staion ops
[17:48:32] <_methods> ahh
[17:48:47] <zeeshan> and maybe some diagrams just incase i have to rebuild the bearings in the future
[17:48:50] <zeeshan> spindle bearings that is
[17:48:58] <_methods> yeah you'll have to pay probably
[17:49:05] <_methods> hard to find those old manauals
[17:49:20] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/turbo2-1.jpg
[17:49:22] <zeeshan> some more fab :D
[17:49:41] <zeeshan> _methods ill pay
[17:50:04] <_methods> i'd try calling mikron then
[17:51:06] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/beadroller4.jpg
[17:51:14] <zeeshan> i think ive only built like 4 frames in my life
[17:51:28] <zeeshan> nothing as pretty at jt's work
[17:52:01] <archivist> hide the fugly welds with thick paint
[17:52:06] <zeeshan> haha
[17:52:11] <zeeshan> my welds are pretty at least i think they are :P
[17:52:46] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/kbYvwwd.jpg
[17:52:55] <zeeshan> a bit thick cause of my transformer type tig
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[17:58:09] <_methods> zeeshan: what style is your toolholder?
[17:58:14] <zeeshan> iso40
[17:58:18] <_methods> hmm
[17:59:59] <_methods> well i searched msc for iso40 retention knobs and there are only 2 styles
[18:00:07] <_methods> 75 and 45 deg
[18:00:40] <_methods> that really doesn't mean anything
[18:00:45] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:00:49] <_methods> but you may be able to narrow down
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[18:02:30] <_methods> what is the thread?
[18:02:49] <zeeshan> m16
[18:02:54] <zeeshan> x2
[18:02:59] <_methods> kk
[18:03:10] <_methods> travers is a dead end
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[18:08:29] <_methods> so how did you know to get iso40?
[18:08:30] <Connor> zeeshan: What IS that ? http://i.imgur.com/kbYvwwd.jpg
[18:10:00] <zeeshan> _methods all these online sites which sell the machine
[18:10:05] <zeeshan> says its iso40
[18:10:10] <zeeshan> connor fuel surge tank for a race car
[18:10:22] <_methods> but they don't list the retention knob angle
[18:10:29] <zeeshan> methods exactly :/
[18:10:58] <zeeshan> connor when you're taking high G turns the fuel sloshes in the fuel tank, this thing acts like a buffer for the fuel to be stored during those high g turns
[18:11:22] <Connor> ok
[18:11:25] <_methods> what site did you find this on?
[18:11:38] <zeeshan> http://www.mullermachines.com/en/MachineTool/Details/17162/MIKRON-WF-21-C
[18:16:35] <_methods> i would maybe call techniks if you can't get ahold of mikron
[18:16:49] <zeeshan> i just got an email back
[18:16:53] <_methods> cool
[18:16:53] <zeeshan> from "retention knob supply"
[18:17:08] <SpeedEvil> I hate it when my knob falls off.
[18:17:11] <zeeshan> but want me to verify it..
[18:17:17] <zeeshan> when i have nothing to verify it against :(
[18:17:34] <_methods> welcome to the world of retention knobs
[18:17:40] <zeeshan> rofl
[18:17:53] <_methods> it's always great when some clown loads up the machine with all teh wrong retention knobs
[18:18:07] <zeeshan> the tool gets jammed?
[18:18:08] <zeeshan> :P
[18:18:13] <_methods> if you put doosan/daewoo retntion knobs in a mazak
[18:18:16] <_methods> have fun
[18:18:38] <zeeshan> i emailed the guy i got the machine from too
[18:18:42] <zeeshan> he ran this for a while
[18:18:48] <zeeshan> so he might still have some retention knobs on him
[18:19:44] <_methods> alright i gotta finish these parts up
[18:19:54] <_methods> GL
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[18:20:35] <zeeshan> thanks :D
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[18:29:36] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: do you have a pic of the inside of the old control cabinet before you gutted it?
[18:30:22] <CaptHindsight> I rarely see a control cabinet as large or larger than the machine itself
[18:35:35] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/A0ZB0HS.jpg
[18:35:51] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NFnnlea.jpg
[18:35:57] <_methods> so spacious
[18:36:19] <zeeshan> unnecessarily big =P
[18:36:24] <zeeshan> its all gone
[18:36:47] <zeeshan> i'm using one of the doors as a chip pan for the lathe lol
[18:36:56] <zeeshan> thats all i have left
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[18:43:56] <Connor> zeeshan: Hope you kept the din rails and stuff
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[18:44:14] <zeeshan> yessir
[18:44:17] <zeeshan> gutted it clean
[18:44:21] <zeeshan> :D
[18:44:27] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/SdfQVpI.jpg
[18:44:32] <Connor> That's the C channel style din rail..
[18:44:32] <zeeshan> all goneee
[18:44:53] <Connor> Did it work? before you gutted it?
[18:45:00] <zeeshan> no way to check
[18:45:02] <zeeshan> didnt have 3 phase
[18:45:13] <zeeshan> guy i bought it from said it worked :P
[18:45:19] <zeeshan> i sold most of the electronics in it
[18:45:26] <zeeshan> servo drives, cnc controller are all gone
[18:45:28] <zeeshan> plc is up for sale
[18:45:30] <Connor> how much you get for it ?
[18:45:33] <zeeshan> 2000
[18:45:37] <CaptHindsight> that was quick
[18:45:42] <Connor> paid for the machine.
[18:46:23] <Connor> You wasn't going to try to re-use the existing servo's ?
[18:46:27] <zeeshan> i was
[18:46:28] <ssi> I need to get the rest of my old control parts on ebay
[18:46:30] <zeeshan> but its too much hassle
[18:46:33] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: what size power cord did it have?
[18:46:42] <zeeshan> and ssi convinced me to use amc drives
[18:46:46] <zeeshan> which are smaller, and better
[18:46:48] <Connor> after seeing what ssi has went through? :)
[18:46:58] <ssi> Connor: yeah now he'll have someone to blame everything on when it doesn't go smoothly
[18:46:59] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: 6/3
[18:47:12] <zeeshan> i dont see it going wrong
[18:47:16] <zeeshan> theyre old servos
[18:47:20] <Connor> ssi: Yea.. we'll all blame you. :)
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[18:47:23] <zeeshan> like you said, simple stuff
[18:47:26] <ssi> I'm used to it
[18:47:30] <zeeshan> tuning will be a pain in the ass
[18:47:33] <zeeshan> but it'll get done
[18:47:51] <ssi> yeah you have to build a mathematical model of everything in the system before you can tune
[18:47:53] <CaptHindsight> the Parker GV's are nice, you might want to avoid the GV6's
[18:47:54] <ssi> it's gonna take awhile
[18:48:06] <zeeshan> ssi im going to use zieger nichols
[18:48:07] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have a crapton of GV6s for sale though! ;)
[18:48:07] <zeeshan> to get close
[18:48:10] <zeeshan> then fine tine manually
[18:48:15] <zeeshan> *tune
[18:48:21] <zeeshan> no modelling needed
[18:48:43] <ssi> I'm definitely interested to see how that goes :P
[18:48:51] <zeeshan> me too
[18:48:52] <Connor> zeeshan: I THINK that was a poke at you for wanting to run math formulas on everything...
[18:49:00] <zeeshan> if it fails imma throw the controls book at the prof :P
[18:49:12] <zeeshan> i love math
[18:49:15] <zeeshan> it works
[18:49:23] <zeeshan> usually it fails when your assumptions are wrong
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[18:49:55] <zeeshan> i mean wouldn't you rather draw something in cad
[18:49:57] <zeeshan> do FEA
[18:50:07] <zeeshan> do a couple quick calculations to make sure fea is giving sane results
[18:50:16] <zeeshan> vs mount some thick pieces of metal together
[18:50:19] <zeeshan> and hope it works?
[18:50:44] <ssi> you know how they do FEA on airplane wings?
[18:50:47] <Connor> Maybe. Sometimes.. people like to use experience and instinct.
[18:50:56] <ssi> they build what they think will work
[18:50:59] <zeeshan> connor that may work great for non critical things
[18:51:03] <ssi> then they flip it over and stack sandbags on it til it breaks
[18:51:21] <ssi> unless they're boeing, in which case they build a giant fixture and pull the wingtips up til it breaks
[18:51:28] <zeeshan> ssi i agree
[18:51:32] <zeeshan> modelling by itself isn't enough
[18:51:36] <zeeshan> you always always always need validation
[18:51:41] <zeeshan> modelling gets you close
[18:51:46] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rak2HldVp9M
[18:51:50] -!- assanaway [assanaway!~balestrin@host170-127-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:51:51] <zeeshan> validation shows you the stuff you overlooked
[18:52:02] <zeeshan> or assumption errors
[18:52:15] <zeeshan> lol thats a huge jig
[18:52:28] <ssi> I wish it were a better video
[18:52:49] <zeeshan> how much force was that?
[18:52:53] <zeeshan> it looks like a 3 point bending test
[18:52:58] <ssi> I dunno, I hear him call out 150
[18:53:01] <ssi> 150 what I dunno heh
[18:53:11] <zeeshan> hopefully 150k lb
[18:53:16] <ssi> oh no it's WAY more than that
[18:53:31] <Connor> 154
[18:53:42] <pcw_home> Ziegler Nichols is basically a waste of time on velocity mode servos
[18:53:47] <ssi> 777 in its biggest config has a gross of like 800k
[18:53:56] <ssi> and it's probably certified to 3.8G, meaning it's designed for twice that
[18:53:58] <zeeshan> pcw_home: why
[18:54:06] <Connor> it's more than 3 points.. it's distributed.. look around 1:16
[18:54:09] <ssi> which is 6.5 milion pounds
[18:54:15] <Connor> you can see all the blocks tied into the wing
[18:54:16] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/NaSyVBt.jpg
[18:54:19] <zeeshan> remember my ugly mount
[18:54:24] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/DVV2yFC.png
[18:54:28] <Connor> on the leading and trailing edges.
[18:54:36] <zeeshan> fea said it wont deflect more than 0.0008
[18:54:39] <zeeshan> i measured it
[18:54:45] <ssi> Connor: the weight on the wingspar is distributed spanwise, so it makes sense for them to distribute the load that way
[18:54:54] <ssi> like I said, the little guys just pile it up with sandbags
[18:55:01] <zeeshan> i can't get it to deflect more than 5 thou!
[18:55:02] <zeeshan> er
[18:55:05] <zeeshan> 0.0005
[18:55:20] -!- kriskropd [kriskropd!~kris@unaffiliated/kriskropd] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:55:20] <ssi> http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/pic02/load-test.jpg
[18:55:26] <Connor> ssi exactly.. air is under the entire wing, not just the tips..
[18:55:28] -!- ve7it [ve7it!~LawrenceG@S01060014d19d0b68.pk.shawcable.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:55:32] <pcw_home> because a velocity mode servo has nested loops which are best tuned individually
[18:55:55] <zeeshan> pcw_home: i will ask you for help when tuning :P
[18:56:07] <ssi> it's really not that hard
[18:56:19] <ssi> I drove myself nuts the first time I did it because I had read all about PID and control theory
[18:56:26] <ssi> but with FF you rarely even need I/D terms
[18:56:46] <ssi> I've told you this like three times, and every time you end up telling me I'm an idiot, so I'm hesitant to say it again, but:
[18:56:55] <pcw_home> velocity mode drives are easy (if the drive is tuned no D or I is needed)
[18:57:05] <ssi> run the motor open loop, turn up the loop gain til the motor oscillates, then back it off
[18:57:13] <ssi> trim the offset pot until it stops drifting
[18:57:25] <ssi> then get it closed loop with a huge ferror, watch the ferror in halscope
[18:57:35] <ssi> trim the offset even finer to get the ferror at 0 with no command input
[18:57:51] <ssi> run the axis in a long reasonably fast cruise, long enough that you stop accelerating for awhile
[18:57:56] <ssi> increase FF1 to null the velocity offset
[18:58:08] <ssi> then tweak FF2 to null any accel error
[18:58:09] <ssi> done.
[18:58:26] <zeeshan> areyou talking about the position loop tuning
[18:58:28] <zeeshan> or velocity loop
[18:58:30] <ssi> both
[18:58:37] <zeeshan> how do you adjust ff1
[18:58:41] <zeeshan> when the drives only have pid
[18:58:41] <ssi> the velocity tuning is done on the drive
[18:59:04] <ssi> the position tuning is done in linuxcnc
[18:59:15] <ssi> sorry I left out a step
[18:59:28] <ssi> that step is increase P in the position loop until it oscillates
[18:59:31] <ssi> then back off
[18:59:31] <zeeshan> but the amc drivves dont have FF
[18:59:51] <ssi> for a smart guy, your reading comprehension sucks
[19:00:13] <ssi> the amc drives have velocity loop gain and offset
[19:00:15] <ssi> that's all you have to touch
[19:00:18] <ssi> read what I wrote again
[19:00:44] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:00:58] <ssi> when you're done, go read this
[19:00:58] <ssi> http://www.mstarlabs.com/control/znrule.html
[19:02:06] -!- sumpfralle [sumpfralle!~lars@on1.informatik.uni-rostock.de] has joined #linuxcnc
[19:03:49] <zeeshan> ssi, dont you adjust D too
[19:03:54] <zeeshan> on the drives, to reduce settling time
[19:04:32] -!- zeitue has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[19:04:40] <ssi> no
[19:09:06] <ssi> ugh I designed and cut a test batch of those endcaps and gasket for pp for next to nothing, and they turned around and had someone else lasercut the production run
[19:09:09] <ssi> bastards
[19:09:48] <zeeshan> basically what im getting from that article
[19:10:10] <zeeshan> is ZN is an approximation
[19:10:24] <zeeshan> and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesnt
[19:10:26] <zeeshan> depending on your system
[19:10:40] <ssi> here's the most salient point I think is made in there:
[19:10:40] <ssi> Inconsistent design goals. The Ziegler-Nichols tuning rule is meant to give your PID loops best disturbance rejection performance. This setting typically does not give very good command tracking performance. It is easy to pick a tuning rule that is poor for the application, and you might not realize it.
[19:10:56] <zeeshan> so for more complex systems you to get the transfer functions
[19:10:56] <jdh> I beat the series 6 plc into submission!
[19:11:17] <jdh> for more complex systems, you apply art.
[19:11:22] <ssi> also a lot of these rules assume pure-PID controllers
[19:11:43] <ssi> and we're fortunate enough to have controllers that are prescient, and therefore FF-capable
[19:11:44] <zeeshan> ssi i dont see why you dont adjust D on the drive
[19:11:45] <jdh> ZN is a place to start
[19:11:46] <zeeshan> to reduce settling
[19:12:32] <ssi> zeeshan: a) I don't know how you can adjust D on the drive; it might have the option via PTH part trimming
[19:12:49] <ssi> b) even measuring settling time would require more work than it's likely worth
[19:12:52] <zeeshan> arent there 3 knobs
[19:12:58] <ssi> there's four
[19:13:05] <zeeshan> P I D gains
[19:13:07] <ssi> offset, reference gain, current limit, and loop gain
[19:13:07] <zeeshan> whats the 4th
[19:13:14] <zeeshan> o
[19:13:25] <ssi> you're really really really overthinking this
[19:13:35] <zeeshan> i want the velocity loop to be perfect!
[19:13:55] <ssi> as far as I'm concerned, if it's stiff and doesn't drift, it's perfect
[19:13:58] <ssi> and that's pretty easy to do
[19:14:29] <zeeshan> too bad we can't do this
[19:14:30] <zeeshan> without drive
[19:14:40] <zeeshan> *with our drives : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYGddOsTCU4
[19:15:11] <ssi> I thought about trying to get some of the digiflex drives
[19:15:18] <ssi> but after the nightmare of the parker drives, I'm scared to
[19:15:24] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:15:28] <ssi> the last thing I want is a drive that I have to hook up to a windows box to configure
[19:15:39] <jdh> and run teh tuning software
[19:15:41] <ssi> that's how the parkers are... I was able to do it via serial with a terminal in linux
[19:15:45] <ssi> but it was a hassle
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[19:15:59] <jdh> nah, half the time I use putty instead of motion planner
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[19:16:53] <zeeshan> this guy tuned
[19:16:54] <zeeshan> in 2 seconds
[19:16:59] <zeeshan> lol
[19:17:25] <zeeshan> maritool got back to me
[19:17:30] <ssi> it seriously took me like five minutes to tune the BE drive with my motor the other day
[19:17:30] <zeeshan> "My database shows PS-71122 which is available on the website. But double check on your end."
[19:17:40] <zeeshan> http://www.maritool.com/p16257/Pull-Stud-71122/product_info.html
[19:17:41] <ssi> it's running a little lumpy because my commutation still isn't right, but it really was easy
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[19:18:51] <PCW> The drives velocity loop gain is roughly equivalent to D in a single loop controller
[19:19:10] <ssi> PCW: what is the reference gain exactly?
[19:19:16] <skunkworks_> ssi: we love amc drives...
[19:19:30] <ssi> skunkworks_: I've had good luck with them, but I haven't tried the fancypants digital ones
[19:19:31] <PCW> input sensitivity
[19:19:36] <ssi> PCW: ok that's what I figured
[19:19:51] <ssi> hm I bet it's possible to set that too high and clip inputs
[19:19:55] <skunkworks_> We have a BE's in the k&t.. (but running brushed servos)
[19:19:59] <PCW> Yep
[19:20:02] <ssi> I wonder what the procedure to trim that correctly is
[19:20:11] <ssi> skunkworks_: I have six of the BEs now
[19:20:39] -!- syyl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[19:20:42] <skunkworks_> we have quite a few BE40a40ac...
[19:20:47] <zeeshan> har har
[19:20:52] <ssi> mine are BE25A20AC
[19:20:54] <zeeshan> good to know another person in here
[19:20:57] <zeeshan> using those drives
[19:21:12] <zeeshan> now i can blame two people
[19:21:51] <ssi> I have some 30A8T brush drives, and three SE10A20 sinusoidal drives also
[19:21:51] <PCW> Lots of people use AMC drives
[19:21:57] <ssi> but the sinusoidal drives are too small for my motors
[19:22:02] <zeeshan> okay now i can blame 3 people
[19:22:04] <zeeshan> :-)
[19:22:57] <ssi> I need to hunt and kill a lunch
[19:23:40] <jdh> I have about 20 6/12 amp BE's. They all seem to run great even with random maint. guys tweaking the pots
[19:23:48] <zeeshan> 4 people to blame
[19:24:08] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/IO5GlWx.png
[19:24:20] <zeeshan> so 2 different manufacturers recommended similar
[19:24:23] <zeeshan> but slightly different pull studs
[19:24:33] <ssi> odd
[19:24:37] <zeeshan> the major difference i see is the radius .118 on the right one
[19:24:46] <zeeshan> and the left one has a big chamfer instead
[19:25:07] <zeeshan> everything else looks reasonably the same
[19:25:08] <ssi> I think the important thing is the angle under the head and the length
[19:25:23] <ssi> the champher vs radius is likely just a manufacturing difference
[19:25:24] <zeeshan> the 1.024" dimension?
[19:25:31] <ssi> .787 actually
[19:26:01] <ssi> in the books for my mill, the drawings specifically call out that particular dimension as the one to look at when buying studs
[19:26:06] <ssi> and that seems to be the dominant dimension
[19:26:17] <ssi> http://www.shars.com/products/view/7589/CAT_40_45_0594_Pull_Stud_Retention_Knob_For_Cincinnati
[19:26:18] <zeeshan> based on the tolerance on it
[19:26:21] <zeeshan> it looks important :P
[19:26:22] <ssi> 1.139" on mine
[19:26:35] <ssi> that length and the angle under the knob
[19:26:44] <zeeshan> to the 15 deg
[19:26:46] <zeeshan> in my case
[19:26:47] <ssi> yep
[19:26:49] <ssi> 45 in mine
[19:27:10] <ssi> cause that's the surface that's actually bearing the load when the drawbar retracts
[19:27:22] <zeeshan> ahh
[19:27:35] <ssi> it needs to be the right angle for engagement, and in the right place so it's at the proper position in its stroke when the taper is seated
[19:27:46] <ssi> if you get that wrong, it can very well jam up in the machine and be impossible to remove, or break off
[19:27:52] <ssi> and then you are entering a world of pain :)
[19:28:17] <ssi> this is what happens, zeeshan, when you find a stranger in the alps
[19:28:32] <zeeshan> damn knobs
[19:28:51] <ssi> yeah they're annoying
[19:29:10] <ssi> I need to get my hands on a pullstud socket
[19:29:16] <ssi> and an ER32 chuck wrench
[19:29:21] <ssi> and a spanner to fit my spindle nut
[19:29:35] <zeeshan> i think im gonna steal these designs
[19:29:38] <zeeshan> and just machine some on the lathe
[19:29:39] <zeeshan> lol
[19:29:45] <zeeshan> and heat treat them at school
[19:29:56] <ssi> heh figure out how much you'd want for them, you can make me a batch :P
[19:30:06] <zeeshan> and youre right
[19:30:10] <zeeshan> 18 bux a pop for this
[19:30:11] <zeeshan> is retarded
[19:30:15] <ssi> I could turn them on the hnc pretty well but I don't have the ability to heat treat
[19:30:28] <ssi> yeah I just bought eight from shars, and shars are $8.50 apiece which isn't bad, but $17 shipping
[19:30:33] <zeeshan> i think you can make these out of a2 tool steel
[19:30:34] <ssi> was like $90 shipped
[19:30:44] <zeeshan> bring up to 1450 f hold for 15 min
[19:30:52] <ssi> to do it right they'd really need to be final ground
[19:30:54] <zeeshan> 1750 hold for 15 min, allow to cool
[19:31:01] <ssi> need an od grinder
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[19:31:19] <zeeshan> the dimension that worries me
[19:31:22] <zeeshan> is the .551
[19:31:24] <zeeshan> youre right
[19:31:26] <zeeshan> it'll distort
[19:31:38] <zeeshan> i need to install a grinder on the lathe
[19:31:53] <ssi> I could cut a wheel with a 45 degree face
[19:31:59] <ssi> and spin them on my surface grinder in a spindex
[19:32:26] <ssi> I had a plan to try to make TTS style toolholders and heat treat them
[19:32:45] <zeeshan> fak TTS!!
[19:32:57] <zeeshan> we have a real tool holder :P
[19:33:07] <ssi> well yeah I do now
[19:33:11] <zeeshan> it still messes with me
[19:33:12] <ssi> it was gonna be for my g0704
[19:33:14] <ssi> which still ilsn't finshed
[19:33:24] <zeeshan> how a 2" boring head doesnt not fly out of the the tts
[19:33:46] <ssi> because if it did, it would be an exciting head
[19:35:23] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#6975a21/=ua36rf
[19:35:26] <ssi> I wonder if that would work
[19:35:35] <zeeshan> wow
[19:35:42] <zeeshan> these pull studs get tored to 85ft-lb
[19:35:46] <zeeshan> *torqued
[19:35:50] <ssi> yeah
[19:35:53] <ssi> the torque is important too
[19:36:07] <zeeshan> loctite it!
[19:36:16] <ssi> some people do
[19:36:43] <zeeshan> dont buy that
[19:36:46] <zeeshan> machine that on your vmc :)
[19:37:09] <ssi> I need it to fix the vmc
[19:37:38] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0p9nrEIQAIHiHC.jpg:large
[19:37:45] <ssi> it's about 70mm
[19:37:55] <zeeshan> do you have a harbor frieght near you
[19:38:01] <ssi> but the slots are .237" wide
[19:38:02] <ssi> ye
[19:38:12] <ssi> and the mcmaster spanner says 9/32" wide hook
[19:38:27] <zeeshan> http://www.jhwilliamstoolgroup.com/DSN/wwwjhwilliamstoolgroupcom/Commerce/ProductImages/lg1_002342.jpg
[19:38:27] <ssi> does harbor freight have spanners?
[19:38:38] <zeeshan> i am pretty sure ive seen those on hf's website
[19:38:45] <zeeshan> the adjustable kind
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[19:38:54] <ssi> well see if you can find them again
[19:38:58] <ssi> I'm searching and can't find anything
[19:39:50] <zeeshan> doh
[19:39:55] <zeeshan> doesnt look like they sell it anymore
[19:39:59] <ssi> bah
[19:40:00] <zeeshan> http://hfreviews.com/item.php?id=5093
[19:40:03] <zeeshan> they used to!
[19:40:27] <ssi> northern doesn't seem to either
[19:40:36] <ssi> and if you search for "spanner", it gives you a bunch of shit with "spinner" in it
[19:40:42] <ssi> thanks guys, for thinking I can't spell
[19:40:45] <ssi> super useful
[19:40:59] <zeeshan> rofl
[19:41:00] <ssi> this is what I always wanted
[19:41:00] <ssi> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200627433_200627433
[19:41:03] <ssi> to go in my lowrider
[19:41:28] <ssi> dammit you got my hopes up, I'd go by HF while grabbing lunch
[19:41:30] <zeeshan> btw
[19:41:32] <zeeshan> thats a pretty ruller
[19:41:33] <zeeshan> i just noticed
[19:41:34] <zeeshan> haha
[19:41:37] <ssi> heheh
[19:41:43] <zeeshan> i want one!
[19:41:52] <ssi> adafruit.com
[19:41:56] <ssi> $5, or free with some purchase
[19:42:19] <ssi> the jh williams ones look perfect
[19:42:26] <zeeshan> lol sthats so cheap
[19:43:11] <ssi> hm actually mcmaster has an adjustable hook spanner like that
[19:43:17] <ssi> but one wrench is as much as that whole jh williams set
[19:43:41] <zeeshan> i have so many kinds of those spanner wrenches now
[19:43:46] <zeeshan> because coilovers in cars
[19:43:54] <zeeshan> installed so many of them that people dont keep their wrenches haha
[19:44:00] <zeeshan> and theyre all slightly different
[19:44:14] <zeeshan> yet i dont still have a single adjustable one :|/
[19:44:15] <ssi> haha so this perfectly illustrates my earlier point
[19:44:16] <ssi> http://www.mcmaster.com/#5471a21/=ua3arw
[19:44:23] <ssi> $119 for a set
[19:44:24] <zeeshan> 119$
[19:44:25] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:44:25] <ssi> probbaly made in us
[19:44:30] <ssi> but:
[19:44:31] <ssi> http://www.grainger.com/product/ARMSTRONG-Adjustable-Hook-Spanner-Wrench-3LXX4?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/3LXX4_AS01?$smthumb$
[19:44:39] <ssi> you can pay twice as much
[19:44:42] <ssi> and get it a day later!
[19:44:51] <zeeshan> armstrong is good stuff
[19:45:27] <ssi> it's probably the exact same set from both vendors
[19:46:03] <ssi> god my neighborhood was so nice before it got filled up with squalling ass children
[19:47:19] <_methods> hahaha
[19:47:25] <_methods> hit a couple with flying metal
[19:47:30] <ssi> thinking lasers
[19:47:35] <_methods> mmmmm
[19:47:38] <_methods> ice cream truck
[19:47:46] <ssi> 5:45 pm, eclipse
[19:47:46] <_methods> hire that guy from la
[19:47:50] <ssi> I shoul dwatch it through the sextant
[19:48:39] <ssi> ok I'm going to go find a lunch
[19:48:43] <ssi> back in a bit
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[20:08:23] <ssi> back
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[20:14:40] <zeeshan> hm
[20:14:45] <zeeshan> i measured the keys on on my spidle
[20:14:47] <zeeshan> theyre .625"
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[20:14:57] <zeeshan> 15.875mm..
[20:15:16] <_methods> yeah?
[20:15:31] <zeeshan> yea
[20:15:43] <zeeshan> regular iso40 tool holder
[20:15:45] <zeeshan> does not fit in it
[20:15:53] <ssi> the drive slot on my cat40 holder here is .640" wide
[20:16:06] <zeeshan> http://www.tekza.com.tr/wp-content/gallery/takim-tutucular/iso-40-by_.jpg
[20:16:09] <zeeshan> by regular, i mean that
[20:16:10] <ssi> can't measure the spindle key at the moment
[20:16:30] <zeeshan> 16.2mm hmm ssi..
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[20:16:44] <zeeshan> internets says 16.4 for cat40
[20:16:46] <zeeshan> for the drive slot
[20:16:54] <zeeshan> so maybe the key isnt supposed to fit in there tightly
[20:17:05] <ssi> I don't think it is
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[20:29:48] <roycroft> have any of you used binocular dental loupes in the shop?
[20:30:16] <roycroft> i like my optivisors, but i'd like to get good magnification at a greater distance sometimes
[20:30:49] <roycroft> i'm looking at something like this:
[20:30:53] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6x-6-0x-Dental-Loupes-Loupe-Surgical-Medical-Dentistry-Nickel-Alloy-Frame-420mm-/181367745664?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276
[20:31:07] <roycroft> 420mm working distance is nice
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[20:36:34] <ssi> roycroft: that could be handy
[20:36:39] <ssi> 420mm seems a bit long though
[20:36:46] <ssi> that's like arm's length
[20:39:35] <roycroft> i haven't seen anything in between
[20:40:06] <roycroft> a 6x diopter simple loupe is going to have a focal length of about 40mm
[20:40:14] <roycroft> which is way too close for a lot of things
[20:40:30] <roycroft> 200mm would be ideal
[20:41:38] <roycroft> i'm a little reluctant to drop $150 on something like that without knowing of other folks' experiences with them
[20:43:35] <ssi> yeah
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[20:47:03] <zeeshan> is there anyway to contact someoneon youtube
[20:47:07] <zeeshan> other than leaving a comment
[20:47:12] <zeeshan> i found a guy with asimilar machine :P
[20:47:13] <zeeshan> he's dutch!
[20:47:21] <ssi> dutch people are crazy
[20:47:26] <ssi> avoid at all costs :D
[20:47:30] <zeeshan> hahaha
[20:47:50] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgTDzVmfKdg
[20:48:54] <zeeshan> ROFL
[20:49:01] <zeeshan> clarkson is the best
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[20:49:16] <ssi> agreed
[20:53:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.amazon.com/22-5-Extra-Screwdriver-phillips-Slotted/dp/B001CWKGNG I think these go with those 420mm loops
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[20:56:15] <ssi> man this is a goofy situation
[20:56:30] <ssi> the company that I'm doing some work for needs some stuff laser or waterjet cut
[20:56:43] <ssi> I got introduced to the owner through a guy I used to work with who has a laser
[20:57:04] <ssi> I designed the part that's getting cut, and I cut a test batch of 36 sets for them
[20:57:14] <ssi> now the owner wants to use his buddy to do the actual work
[20:57:20] <_methods> you need a production run cut?
[20:57:22] <_methods> oh
[20:57:40] <jthornton> been there before and it sucks
[20:57:45] <ssi> the EE they ended up hiring to do fulltime pcb work cause I didn't have time is a friend of mine
[20:57:54] <ssi> and he sent me the quote they got from the other laser guy
[20:57:58] <ssi> and I can beat it by a lot
[20:58:12] <ssi> he quoted $1.45 apiece for the parts, and the material cost is about 8c
[20:58:18] <jthornton> did they ask you for a quote?
[20:58:21] <ssi> no
[20:58:46] <jthornton> can you laser cut 12 gauge HR sheet?
[20:58:50] <ssi> I wish :(
[20:58:59] <_methods> 12ga?
[20:59:13] <jthornton> 0.105"
[20:59:22] <_methods> yeah i know it's just not a usual ga
[20:59:32] <jthornton> sure it is
[20:59:37] <_methods> most times you see 10, 11, 14,16, 18
[20:59:41] <ssi> jthornton: I haven't found the magic for cutting metal yet
[20:59:43] <_methods> 12 and 13 get skipped
[20:59:50] <ssi> the theory says it might be possible
[20:59:59] <ssi> I tried to cut some 28ga cr sheet
[21:00:02] <_methods> they make 12 and 13 but it's not as common
[21:00:16] <zeeshan> ssi referred to theory
[21:00:18] <zeeshan> oh noessss
[21:00:25] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxMAiYAIUAAfUAM.jpg:large
[21:00:31] <ssi> I marked it enough you can catch with a fingernail
[21:00:32] <_methods> i always see kid engineers using 12 and 13 ga
[21:00:34] <ssi> but it certainly didn't cut
[21:00:35] <_methods> or 8ga lol
[21:00:43] <_methods> that's my fav
[21:00:44] <zeeshan> at least you can engrave metal!
[21:00:44] <zeeshan> :D
[21:01:02] <zeeshan> some of it lookls molten
[21:01:07] <zeeshan> how fast were you feeding?
[21:01:12] <ssi> like 0.5ipm
[21:01:13] <ssi> hahah
[21:01:14] <zeeshan> haha
[21:01:22] <zeeshan> just buy a plasma cutter
[21:01:23] <ssi> and 120W
[21:01:26] <ssi> I have a plasma cutter
[21:01:26] <zeeshan> and hook the torech up when you wanna do metal
[21:01:40] <zeeshan> just hook up the plasma :P
[21:01:42] <zeeshan> and call it a day
[21:01:44] <ssi> it has its own table
[21:01:51] <zeeshan> o
[21:02:24] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3rhhnSkbfw
[21:02:47] <zeeshan> why do you need a laser cutter?!
[21:02:51] <zeeshan> for metal
[21:02:57] <ssi> far more precise
[21:04:26] <zeeshan> i never understood why people use thc
[21:04:37] <ssi> why wouldn't you?
[21:04:39] <zeeshan> like can't you just enter the thickness of the metal
[21:04:43] <zeeshan> to compensate
[21:04:45] <ssi> metal warps and moves a lot
[21:04:59] <_methods> lol
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[21:06:52] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77JFjtKEhSw#t=11
[21:07:24] <ssi> lol
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[21:13:32] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:26:27] <roycroft> all the medical loupes i see have a 420mm focal length
[21:26:31] <roycroft> that seems odd
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[21:47:35] <ssi> jthornton: lol the owner just called me and asked for a laser quote
[21:48:18] <ssi> the other guy quated him $1.45 apiece for the acrylic parts and $0.43 apiece for the silicone parts, and 10 days turn on the first batch of 1320 sets
[21:48:31] <ssi> I told him 75c for the acrycil parts and 35c for the silicone parts, and three days turn
[21:48:46] <ssi> hungry shops make money :D
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[21:52:24] <_DannyK_> So before I forget, Quote of my day. Electronics guy was in the machine shop using the lathe with a carbide drill. (Shop is short handed) He said " the drill wasn't centering on the piece". The machinist walks over looks and said to him, "I see. so do you usually hold the drills by the flutes?"
[21:52:54] <ssi> backwards? :)
[21:52:59] <_DannyK_> yep
[21:53:00] <ssi> the smooth part doesn't drill well
[21:53:28] <_DannyK_> after it breaks and shatters it might be ok from that end
[21:53:38] <_DannyK_> Depth depending
[21:54:25] <_methods> wow
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[21:59:04] <_DannyK_> The electronics guy has a better head on him then our Mechanical engineers, it was a didn't put glasses on to see the, 1/16" drill, mistake. Still funny.. He didn't try to actually cut anything, notice a issue immediately.
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[22:00:05] <ssi> I couldn't see the eclipse through the trees here :/
[22:00:33] <_DannyK_> There was a eclipse?
[22:00:38] <ssi> yeah now
[22:00:51] <_DannyK_> where do you live?
[22:02:26] <_methods> ohshit i missed it
[22:02:54] <_DannyK_> nah he said it was now..
[22:03:43] <_DannyK_> maybe a live stream video or something somewhere so I don't have to go outside to look.. :P
[22:04:01] <_DannyK_> haha, J/k going now
[22:04:03] <roycroft> i couldn't see it through the rain and fog and clouds
[22:04:33] <_methods> there's like real world stuff in the way
[22:11:32] <ssi> hate that
[22:18:44] <roycroft> i found some 320mm loupes
[22:18:49] <roycroft> that would be much better
[22:19:03] <roycroft> and they're a lot less expensive
[22:19:14] <zeeshan> um
[22:19:19] <zeeshan> i just bought some "3 gauge cable"
[22:19:29] <zeeshan> and i measure the diameter of the conductor, its 7 strands
[22:19:37] <zeeshan> and im measuring .1865"
[22:20:00] <zeeshan> online it says conductor diameter .2294"
[22:20:03] <zeeshan> for 3 gauge..
[22:21:39] <_methods> wow man
[22:21:41] <ssi> lol
[22:22:01] <zeeshan> WTF
[22:22:15] <_methods> take it back man
[22:22:17] <ssi> what's the strand diameter?
[22:22:18] <_methods> call them out
[22:22:25] <_methods> call ietf
[22:22:32] <_methods> eei
[22:22:35] <_methods> eela
[22:22:37] <_methods> eula
[22:22:50] <_methods> this won't stand
[22:23:01] <zeeshan> lemme check ssi
[22:24:50] <roycroft> imperial or american gauge?
[22:28:21] <ssi> roycroft: nice try but swg is actually bigger than awg!
[22:28:35] <ssi> 3swg is supposed to be 0.252" diameter
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[22:29:51] <_DannyK_> Gauge is based on current of material, which was always odd to me.
[22:30:17] <_DannyK_> Sizes will vary for sure..
[22:30:45] <_DannyK_> Though you, sir, probably got screwed. Sorry..
[22:31:17] <zeeshan> 0.055" diameter per strand
[22:31:19] <zeeshan> 7 strands
[22:33:02] <ssi> so that's 3.025kcmil per strand
[22:33:09] <ssi> or 21.175kcmil
[22:33:23] <ssi> ew
[22:33:38] <ssi> I dunno if this math works actually
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[22:33:50] <ssi> cause 3awg is supposed to be 53kcmil
[22:33:59] <ssi> and I doubt it's 40% as much copper as it's supposed to be
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[22:34:04] <zeeshan> 7*(pi/4 * 0.055^2) =
[22:34:08] <zeeshan> should be the area i think
[22:34:19] <ssi> yeah but cmil don't work that way exactly
[22:34:22] <ssi> figure it in mm^2
[22:34:44] <_DannyK_> errr, ahhh, I got it... It's a super conductor...
[22:34:44] <zeeshan> 10.73 mm^2
[22:34:48] <ssi> 13.7?
[22:34:49] <ssi> hm
[22:34:52] <_methods> hehe
[22:34:59] <ssi> either way that's way too small
[22:35:00] <zeeshan> i got fucked
[22:35:04] <ssi> yeah sounds like it
[22:35:12] <_methods> yeah they superconducted money out of his wallet
[22:35:15] <ssi> sounds like you got #6
[22:35:20] <_DannyK_> haha
[22:35:27] <ssi> my #6 is 7 strands
[22:35:33] <zeeshan> same here
[22:35:34] <ssi> and #6 is listed as 13.3mm^2
[22:35:39] <zeeshan> i have that thhn cable
[22:35:44] <zeeshan> thats #6 and it looks exactly like this
[22:35:48] <ssi> yeah
[22:35:56] <zeeshan> tahts why stepped back a bit.
[22:36:11] <ssi> I guess that guy thinks you should run #6 as well ;)
[22:36:20] <zeeshan> i would run it
[22:36:22] <zeeshan> but i wanna power the other side
[22:36:30] <zeeshan> more than i need so i can hook up some other 240v circuits
[22:36:31] <zeeshan> like bead roller
[22:36:42] <ssi> if it makes you feel any better, I tihnk I paid more than that for 6/3
[22:36:47] <ssi> from home depot :P
[22:37:04] <zeeshan> yea its rape!
[22:37:08] <zeeshan> armor?
[22:37:25] <_DannyK_> gonna use then simultaneously, zeehan?
[22:37:28] <ssi> no, just romex or wtfever it is these days
[22:37:36] <zeeshan> _DannyK_: maybe
[22:37:36] <ssi> I pulled it in 3/4" armor flex conduit tho
[22:37:52] <zeeshan> this guy wont respond back to me now
[22:37:52] <zeeshan> lol
[22:37:53] <ssi> was easier that way... pulled it in a straight line, then ran it as armored cable
[22:43:52] <ssi> ok 40 seconds apiece of machine time for these
[22:45:22] <ssi> eesh I don't like the way those numbers sound
[22:45:28] <ssi> I gotta figure out how to get more feedrate out of it
[22:46:13] <ssi> that's 136 hours of run time just for the acrylic parts
[22:46:13] <_methods> what are you doing?
[22:46:22] <ssi> _methods: trying to quote this laser job
[22:46:26] <_methods> ahh
[22:46:38] <_methods> qty?
[22:46:43] <ssi> 6160 sets
[22:46:46] <ssi> four parts per set
[22:46:50] <_methods> wow big run
[22:47:10] <ssi> they want 1320 of them in the first run
[22:47:15] <ssi> so let me think about that run first
[22:47:18] <_methods> thickness
[22:47:36] <_methods> can you stack sheets?
[22:47:39] <ssi> 1/4"
[22:47:40] <ssi> hm
[22:47:46] <ssi> hadn't tried it, but it might be possible
[22:47:48] <_methods> i don't know naythig about those lasers
[22:47:55] <ssi> I can cut 1/2" plywood, I don't see why I couldn't cut 1/2" acrylic
[22:47:57] <_methods> i used to stack sheets on plasma
[22:48:21] <_methods> definitely try test cuts first
[22:48:24] <_methods> and check accuracy
[22:48:28] <ssi> yeah I will
[22:48:30] <_methods> it will usually cause issues
[22:48:44] <_DannyK_> I know you fixed your 7i77, what was the replacement part ssi?
[22:48:45] <ssi> that's a great idea though
[22:48:54] <ssi> _DannyK_: the gate driver, 74ACT04
[22:49:12] <_methods> i used to stack on waterjet too sometimes
[22:49:16] <_methods> but it's way more dangerous
[22:49:18] <_DannyK_> in stock?
[22:49:27] <_DannyK_> or do you stock all the items?
[22:49:31] <_methods> plasma used to run stacked pretty good
[22:49:44] <_methods> 14ga and under
[22:49:48] <ssi> _DannyK_: I scavenged it off another board
[22:50:03] <ssi> _methods: ok so I can get 714 parts per 24x36" sheet comfortably
[22:50:06] <_methods> over 14 i used to have real problems with the bottom sheet
[22:50:12] <_DannyK_> ahh, good job, ssi..
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[22:50:33] <_methods> well that's a busy sheet
[22:50:52] <ssi> I'm using 15ipm right now
[22:51:06] <ssi> I can run it 20ipm just fine, but last time I did that the ones further down the beam path didn't cut through
[22:51:20] <ssi> I need to run some test cuts at the lower right and see what my maximum viable feedrate is down there
[22:51:36] <_methods> is that your worst corner
[22:51:38] <ssi> also I should check alignment before I do this job
[22:51:38] <ssi> yeah
[22:53:13] <_methods> hehe yeah bad thing about not having bend optics
[22:53:17] <_methods> corners suck
[22:53:40] <ssi> it's just the total beam path distance
[22:53:50] <ssi> bottom right corner means max X beam length and max Y beam length
[22:53:52] <ssi> so max divergence
[22:53:54] <_methods> yeah
[22:54:06] <_methods> well with bend optics you can change
[22:54:18] <_methods> they put servos on the mirrors
[22:54:23] <_methods> and they squeeze the mirrors
[22:54:27] <_methods> to change it's shape
[22:54:51] <_methods> so as you move around the table it changes the beam
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[22:54:57] <_methods> so it's the same everywhere
[22:55:17] <_DannyK_> _Method: I learned something today.
[22:55:26] <ssi> yeah that's way too rich for my blood :)
[22:55:35] <_methods> yeah it's a pain i the ass
[22:55:42] <_methods> you have to align at all the corners
[22:55:50] <_methods> takes all day
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[22:56:01] <_methods> some times 2 if you're a noob like me
[22:56:14] <_DannyK_> Use gorilla glass and alunimum film the one side add some servos, your good to go..
[22:56:21] <_methods> hehe
[22:56:44] <_methods> well do your cut characteristics change the longer you're cutting?
[22:56:52] <_methods> i would think the beam would heat the mirrors
[22:56:58] <_methods> and change your beam
[22:57:08] <_methods> are they water cooled?
[22:57:19] <ssi> hm you know what
[22:57:29] <ssi> 12x24" pieces of acrylic are actually cheaper than 24x36"
[22:57:43] <ssi> $18.80 each for the 12x24, and $59.11 for the 24x36
[22:57:51] <_methods> damn
[22:57:57] <ssi> unless I'm being completely obtuse, 3x 12x24 is the same area, right?
[22:58:01] <_methods> 12x24 plz
[22:58:01] <ssi> cause it's $3 cheaper
[22:58:13] <ssi> I may have more drop with them
[22:58:21] <ssi> but I can run it all closer up to the beam, so faster
[22:58:24] <ssi> might be worthwhile
[22:58:28] <_methods> yeah
[22:58:34] <t12> man
[22:58:35] <_methods> i'd try to run in the best spot
[22:58:39] <t12> there are some terrible serial protocols out there
[22:58:43] <t12> like really really bad
[22:58:46] <_methods> wherever your table sweet spot is
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[22:59:32] <paul_liebenberg> Hola, can you run linuxcnc on a thin client? Saw this ad: http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/Downsizing---used-Thin-Client-desktops_23236485
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[23:05:14] <the_wench> PetefromTn_: archivist said http://ibin.co/1ecEHX3uknzA
[23:06:51] <PetefromTn_> OK thank you.
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[23:10:53] <brianmorel99> Time to install limit switches and they are no where to be found. Any recommendations for "local" store to pick some up ?
[23:11:07] <ssi> _methods: stacking's nicht so gut
[23:11:24] <_methods> yeah
[23:11:30] <_methods> laser may not work so well
[23:11:34] <_methods> any air gap is bad
[23:11:43] <ssi> the acrylic has paper on both sides
[23:11:51] <ssi> and in between it's just messy
[23:11:53] <_methods> yeah probably not gonna work
[23:11:58] <ssi> my alignment was a bit off, I fixed it
[23:12:07] <ssi> gonna see how fast I can cut in the lower right
[23:12:09] <_methods> worth a shot at least
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[23:14:10] <ssi> yeah cause the difference between 15ipm and 20ipm is gonna be dozens of hours on this job
[23:14:36] <_methods> yeah that's a big run
[23:14:53] <_methods> how many hours you get out of a tube?
[23:15:06] <ssi> they list it as 10k hours
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[23:15:11] <ssi> and that's at 26ma
[23:15:13] <ssi> I'm running like half that
[23:15:19] <_methods> well i'd add that to the price
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[23:15:34] <ssi> it's like a $15k job... I can replace the tube for $1200
[23:15:37] <_methods> that's a chunk of on time
[23:15:41] <_methods> ahh ok
[23:15:47] <ssi> my other concern is I don't have a water chiller for it
[23:15:50] <_methods> oh that's not too bad
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[23:15:58] <ssi> I'm just circulating ten gallons of water
[23:16:01] <ssi> but there's no active cooling
[23:16:03] <_methods> you use the chiller fo rthe mirrors
[23:16:12] <ssi> my mirrors don't really get hot
[23:16:20] <ssi> but the water will get hot on this long a run
[23:16:20] <_methods> what gets hot?
[23:16:27] <ssi> the tube
[23:16:45] <_methods> you just run a fan on the tube?
[23:16:50] <ssi> no, it's water cooled
[23:16:51] <_methods> water cooled
[23:16:56] <ssi> but the water itself isn't actively chilled
[23:16:58] <ssi> just circulated
[23:17:04] <_methods> oh it has a water jacket?
[23:17:06] <ssi> yes
[23:17:10] <_methods> ahh cool
[23:17:22] <_methods> wonder if you could rig up a swamp cooler
[23:17:59] <_methods> drop frozen milk jugs
[23:18:02] <ssi> my water reservoir is a rubbermaid container
[23:18:05] <zeeshan> got my money back
[23:18:06] <ssi> I could put the whole thing in a bigger container with ice
[23:18:08] <ssi> or dry ice
[23:18:12] <_methods> yeah
[23:18:12] <zeeshan> guy wouldnt admit
[23:18:15] <zeeshan> he sold me smaller cable
[23:18:19] <zeeshan> he's like i dont know what im selling
[23:18:22] <zeeshan> you shoulda checked
[23:18:23] <ssi> I'll just keep an eye on it for the first run and make sure the temp doesn't get too high
[23:18:28] <zeeshan> do you really expect me to bring a caliper with me
[23:18:30] <zeeshan> to measure the wire?!?
[23:18:30] <zeeshan> wow
[23:18:44] <zeeshan> i told him if he had been honest with me that was 6 gauge
[23:18:50] <zeeshan> i woulda split the money with him
[23:19:04] <SpeedEvil> you mean you don't have a caliper on you atall times?
[23:19:15] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: im going to from now on!
[23:19:27] <SpeedEvil> There are neat keychain ones
[23:19:57] <zeeshan> lol
[23:19:59] <zeeshan> nice
[23:20:15] <zeeshan> i need one of those
[23:20:37] <SpeedEvil> Or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-25-80mm-Brass-Vernier-Caliper-Sliding-Gem-Bead-Tool-Inches-Ruler-PF-/261627695758?pt=UK_Crafts_JewelleryMaking_GL&hash=item3cea39d28e
[23:22:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Movable-Vernier-Caliper-Model-Measure-Tool-Keyring-Key-Ring-Keyring-UK-SELLER-/251672186708?pt=UK_Car_Parts_Vehicles_Automobila_ET&hash=item3a98d4cf54 would actually be handy
[23:22:11] <SpeedEvil> If it wasn't just a toy
[23:22:44] <zeeshan> mitutoyo needs to make a baby 3" caliper
[23:22:45] <zeeshan> digital
[23:23:25] <SpeedEvil> That would be a cute project to do
[23:24:34] <_methods> snap gauge
[23:24:44] <_methods> you don't carry one with you?
[23:25:11] <_methods> lol
[23:26:00] <zeeshan> out of the 150 deals ive done
[23:26:06] <zeeshan> one goes bad
[23:26:07] <zeeshan> oh well
[23:26:31] <_methods> the ole pocket thickness gage
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[23:28:26] <ssi> _methods: 25ipm is working at the far corner
[23:28:38] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4hii7hm1ci77q1/2014-10-23%2019.26.51.jpg?dl=0
[23:28:59] <_methods> wow nice
[23:29:09] <_methods> that's the worst point?
[23:29:12] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/121ho7dgpahnvyk/2014-10-23%2019.27.10.jpg?dl=0
[23:29:13] <ssi> yeah
[23:29:28] <_methods> so you should be able to cut faster in the best spot
[23:29:42] <ssi> yeah, but I don't have a great way to have the speed decrease based on table zone
[23:29:45] <_methods> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ozkgl5o5deyrbwc/2014-10-23%2019.27.39.jpg?dl=0
[23:29:46] <ssi> my cam's not really that smart :)
[23:29:57] <ssi> I guess I could cobble it together
[23:30:05] <ssi> I should probably cut this in smaller than 24x36 batches anyway
[23:30:10] <_methods> well what if you spin your sheet
[23:30:15] <zeeshan> methods i got one of those
[23:30:17] <_methods> like just cut index
[23:30:17] <zeeshan> but digital
[23:30:20] <ssi> yeah that's not a bad idea
[23:30:24] <zeeshan> they are handy
[23:31:19] <_methods> it's nice it fits in your pocket
[23:31:32] <_methods> i normally only get it out when i'm doing inventory
[23:31:40] <_methods> i have to go through tons of sheets
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[23:32:16] <zeeshan> i ended up using it for sorting through a 100 different shim stock
[23:32:23] <zeeshan> when building the transmission
[23:32:35] <zeeshan> its prolly accurate within 0.0005"
[23:32:37] <zeeshan> er
[23:32:41] <zeeshan> er 0.001"
[23:33:17] <zeeshan> i just got an update, woohoo amc drives are shipped
[23:33:21] <zeeshan> ssi whats a quick way to test em?
[23:33:33] <ssi> hook up a motor and power
[23:33:40] <zeeshan> oki
[23:33:47] <_methods> it's made for spot checking
[23:34:09] <_methods> i dont' use it to measure parts lol
[23:35:10] <_methods> great for quick go/nogo set up too
[23:35:32] <_DannyK_> You gents will probably know, which is more flexible ss 304 or 316?
[23:36:13] <_DannyK_> or which one is more brittle...
[23:36:23] <_DannyK_> probably 316
[23:37:15] <zeeshan> http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/austenitic/304_304l_data_sheet.pdf
[23:37:18] <zeeshan> http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/austenitic/316_316l_data_sheet.pdf
[23:37:28] <zeeshan> 55% elongation for 304 vs 50% for 316
[23:37:35] <zeeshan> so you're correct :P
[23:37:39] <zeeshan> 316 is more brittle
[23:37:42] <zeeshan> but not really by much!
[23:38:00] <_methods> http://www.makeitfrom.com/
[23:38:07] <_DannyK_> seems minimum
[23:38:19] <_DannyK_> bookmarked
[23:38:20] <_DannyK_> ty
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[23:39:39] <_methods> http://www.makeitfrom.com/compare-multiple/
[23:39:52] <_methods> does that give you 316 and 304?
[23:40:14] <_methods> ah nm
[23:40:17] <_methods> no materials pinned
[23:41:30] <_DannyK_> All good..
[23:41:40] <_DannyK_> Tells me what I need to know for sure
[23:41:50] <_methods> can't remember how to send someone a comparison
[23:42:16] <_methods> if you put 304 and 316 in search and click on compare
[23:42:24] <_methods> it will show you them side by side
[23:42:31] <_methods> you can add multiple materials
[23:42:43] <_methods> really handy for doing a quick material study for something
[23:42:56] <_DannyK_> yeah, I threw them in there for fun..
[23:43:02] <_DannyK_> Yeah pretty sweet
[23:45:09] <_DannyK_> Thanks again..
[23:47:55] <_methods> np
[23:48:07] <_methods> i use that makeitfrom all the time
[23:48:13] <_methods> it's hardly definitive
[23:48:14] <ssi> _methods: ok i think 30ipm is gonna work up in the good quadrant
[23:48:17] <_methods> but for a quck compare
[23:48:22] <ssi> I like your idea about spinning the sheet
[23:48:29] <_methods> yeah man index that thing
[23:48:35] <ssi> sheetcam simulation is running now
[23:48:44] <ssi> 3909 seconds for a 1/4 sheet
[23:48:47] <_methods> if something happens in a sheet too
[23:48:48] <ssi> 186 parts
[23:48:50] <_methods> it's o biggie
[23:48:54] <_methods> *no
[23:49:03] <ssi> 21 seconds per
[23:49:05] <ssi> got that cut in half :)
[23:49:06] <_methods> but if you have a giant nest it sux
[23:49:23] <ssi> down to 72 hours of machine time for the acrylic parts
[23:49:32] <_methods> wow
[23:49:37] <_methods> that's cosiderably
[23:49:46] <ssi> that's for all 12,400 acrylic parts
[23:49:47] <_methods> wow no can type tonight
[23:50:05] <_methods> well factor in your index time now too
[23:50:15] <ssi> index time won't take much
[23:50:23] <ssi> it'll run for just over an hour per index
[23:50:37] <ssi> so four hours of watching TV with a flip per two episodes will take care of it :)
[23:50:37] <_methods> oh thats not bad then
[23:50:40] <ssi> one sheet
[23:50:46] <ssi> I need to cut sixteen sheets for the job I think
[23:51:40] <_DannyK_> ssi: 4 hours? Almost all the way through Silicon Valley
[23:51:44] <ssi> heheh yeah
[23:51:57] <_methods> mean jerk time
[23:52:08] <_methods> in no time lol
[23:52:12] <ssi> haha
[23:52:16] <_DannyK_> haha
[23:52:45] <zeeshan> dont breathe those acrylic fumes!! :P
[23:52:48] <ssi> meh
[23:53:03] <ssi> I'm going to be made of acrylic fumes by the time this job's done
[23:53:09] <zeeshan> haha
[23:53:12] <ssi> I might need to rig some extra ventilation
[23:53:22] <_DannyK_> did you reach your hydro carbon intake for the month?
[23:53:31] <_methods> hahah
[23:53:53] <_DannyK_> may not need to rig anything
[23:53:55] <_methods> you shoot tape for nozzle alignment?
[23:53:59] <ssi> yeah
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[23:54:14] <ssi> I have a program which jogs to upper left, pops a low power fast pulse, then jogs to lower right and pops another
[23:54:17] <ssi> with M1s in between
[23:54:31] <_methods> cool
[23:54:34] <ssi> I put a piece of tape on a piece of aluminum tape and stick the whole thing over the entracnce to the head
[23:54:41] <ssi> run the program, and see whether the dots coincide
[23:54:57] <_methods> i need to make me a laser
[23:55:00] <ssi> I don't have as nice a way to align the head itself
[23:55:03] <_methods> i'm gonna do that after i do my x2
[23:55:13] <_methods> or plasma
[23:55:19] <_methods> heheh
[23:55:20] <ssi> the laser was pretty easy to put together
[23:55:22] <_methods> laser or plasma
[23:55:26] <ssi> cost about $5k or 6k all up
[23:55:30] <_methods> choices choices
[23:55:37] <ssi> and it's about to pay for itself :)
[23:55:43] <_methods> hell yeah
[23:55:56] <ssi> first real job and it'll be paid for twice over
[23:55:57] <ssi> love it
[23:56:15] <_methods> yeah i might actually have a job for mine
[23:56:24] <_methods> need to build the laser though
[23:57:33] <ssi> get on it!
[23:57:39] <ssi> I need to build a redesigned table
[23:57:42] <ssi> we can collaborate
[23:57:52] <PetefromTn_> yes we can..;)
[23:57:55] <_methods> i gotta finish my x2 first
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[23:58:28] <_methods> i'm pretty sure i'll do the plasma after that since i'd rather be able to cut metal than plastic and plywood
[23:58:43] <_methods> laser will be last
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[23:59:52] <zeeshan> what is x2
[23:59:59] <jdh> seig x2 mini-mill