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[00:22:42] <Tom_itx> how do you group move in solidworks?
[00:23:56] <zeeshan> what do you mean
[00:24:04] <zeeshan> like a bunch of parts in an assembly together?
[00:24:10] <Tom_itx> meh
[00:24:12] <Tom_itx> nevermind
[00:24:17] <Tom_itx> it's not gonna do what i need anyway
[00:24:40] <zeeshan> what are you trying to do
[00:24:59] <Tom_itx> import a couple parts from iges to compare
[00:25:24] <zeeshan> try opening the folder where the parts are
[00:25:28] <zeeshan> select the parts
[00:25:37] <zeeshan> drag and drop em in the grey background of solidworks
[00:25:46] <zeeshan> it should process them
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[00:26:45] <Tom_itx> yeah they're in separate files though
[00:27:18] <zeeshan> are you trying to put them in the same assembly?
[00:27:33] <Tom_itx> yeah but i need to offset one or they're gonna overlap
[00:28:45] <Tom_itx> i'll bring em in my cad cam
[00:28:49] <Tom_itx> i know how to do it there
[00:30:40] <Tom_itx> done
[00:30:41] <Tom_itx> :D
[00:31:17] <Tom_itx> looking at timing pulleys, i wanted to compare the profiles
[00:32:04] <zeeshan> nice
[00:32:28] <Tom_itx> 5mm vs 3mm
[00:32:47] <Tom_itx> GT2 or HTD series
[00:33:06] <Tom_itx> i think the 3mm GT2 will be heavy enough
[00:33:17] <zeeshan> how much torque
[00:33:25] <Tom_itx> i dunno
[00:33:30] <Tom_itx> it's the spindle on my sherline
[00:34:08] <zeeshan> to give you acomparison
[00:34:17] <zeeshan> the 1200oz-in steppers
[00:34:44] <zeeshan> are running off mxl style pulleys
[00:34:58] <Tom_itx> i've only got so much room too
[00:35:20] <Tom_itx> it's currently using a sewing machine belt
[00:35:23] <Tom_itx> V belt
[00:35:40] <zeeshan> trying to synchronize your spindle?
[00:35:44] <Tom_itx> no
[00:35:45] <zeeshan> or is it slipping
[00:35:52] <Tom_itx> well that would be a plus too
[00:36:08] <Tom_itx> wearing belts out too quick
[00:36:36] <zeeshan> maybe over tensioned?
[00:36:48] <Tom_itx> i think it's the pulley i made
[00:36:54] <Tom_itx> may be a tiny bit thin
[00:37:15] <Tom_itx> i could chuck it back in the lathe but i've been wanting to put timing pulleys on it anyway
[00:37:17] <Jymmm> paint it, and see where the paint rubs off?
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[00:37:29] <Tom_itx> i can see what's going on with it
[00:38:13] <Tom_itx> i'll have to bore them out but i think i'm gonna get the GT2 series
[00:38:23] <Jymmm> I kinda meant to use the rub marks to widen it some
[00:38:23] <zeeshan> free fix is always nice!
[00:38:24] <zeeshan> :D
[00:38:38] <zeeshan> got a pic of your spindle drive assembly?
[00:38:53] <Tom_itx> probably somewhere
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[00:40:26] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/pulley_back.jpg
[00:40:32] <Tom_L> there's the pulley i made for it
[00:41:08] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/pulley_front.jpg
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[00:41:19] <zeeshan> looks nice
[00:41:27] <zeeshan> is ther a taper?
[00:41:33] <zeeshan> *taper on the edges
[00:41:40] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk1.jpg
[00:42:05] <Tom_L> yes
[00:42:16] <zeeshan> ohh
[00:42:19] <zeeshan> that might be the problem
[00:42:24] <zeeshan> using a tooth belt
[00:42:29] <zeeshan> on a flat surface
[00:42:31] <Tom_L> it's a v belt
[00:42:50] <Tom_L> i'm not that silly
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[00:43:54] <Tom_L> i just think it's not wide enough by a few thosandths
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[00:44:46] <zeeshan> i dont know if you know this
[00:44:51] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/encoder_disk2.jpg
[00:44:51] <zeeshan> but the v-belt is supposed to ride on the tapers
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[00:45:03] <zeeshan> not on the flat portion of the belt
[00:45:23] <Tom_L> yeah i think it's just not quite wide enough
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[00:45:34] <Tom_L> you can see how the belt rides above the pulley a bit
[00:45:42] <zeeshan> yes
[00:45:52] <zeeshan> thats what you want though
[00:46:10] <Tom_L> that or the angle is off a bit
[00:46:18] <gennro> Hello
[00:46:20] <zeeshan> yea
[00:46:22] <zeeshan> that can be a big problem
[00:46:23] <zeeshan> ;/
[00:46:35] <Tom_L> timing belts will fix that :)
[00:46:38] <zeeshan> =D
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[00:47:41] <Tom_L> and put me one step closer to rigid tapping
[00:48:26] <zeeshan> you just gotta extend one of those encoder slots
[00:48:30] <zeeshan> and hook up another sensor! :D
[00:48:58] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/PqRCgAV.jpg
[00:49:04] <zeeshan> ive never see a "torque washer"
[00:49:05] <Tom_L> yeah
[00:49:05] <zeeshan> before
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[00:49:27] <zeeshan> ive seen the ones where you can bend a flat
[00:49:34] <zeeshan> but not on all 4 corners like that
[00:49:39] <Tom_L> you have but they were likely wavy washers
[00:49:58] <zeeshan> i havent seen a cup washer either
[00:50:05] <Tom_L> i have
[00:50:08] <zeeshan> where
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[00:50:12] <jdh> I have tons on my baot
[00:50:14] <jdh> or boat
[00:50:30] <zeeshan> whats their benefit
[00:50:36] <jdh> decorative
[00:50:41] <zeeshan> google is too generic for "cup washer"
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[00:50:46] <Tom_L> mostly ^^
[00:51:00] <Tom_L> i've seen them with wood screws too
[00:51:10] <Tom_L> keeps the head from digging in too far
[00:51:22] <zeeshan> found something
[00:51:23] <zeeshan> "Cup Washers are used as spring retainers and locators, centering washers, housings for assemblies, a substitute for larger heavier washers, as spacers to reduce material usage and weight product, end caps, anti-tampering protection for fasteners, or for many other reasons."
[00:51:29] <zeeshan> so since there is a gap
[00:51:36] <zeeshan> when you torque it down, you're elastically deforming the washer
[00:52:00] <zeeshan> so decorative, spring retainer , spacer
[00:52:05] <Tom_L> VW bugs used them alot
[00:52:11] <zeeshan> the old ones?
[00:52:11] <Tom_L> on the sheet metal for one
[00:52:13] <Tom_L> yes
[00:52:20] <Tom_L> the engine sheetmetal
[00:52:57] <Tom_L> used to have a drawer full
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[00:53:49] <Tom_L> then there's the 'cup' washer that performs like a wavy washer
[00:53:59] <Tom_L> it crushes the same way
[00:54:21] <Tom_L> not as popular
[00:55:38] <zeeshan> lol
[00:55:40] <zeeshan> im looking at this
[00:55:41] <Tom_L> spark plugs use them but they're copper so they don't spring back
[00:55:43] <zeeshan> "internal external tooth"
[00:55:47] <zeeshan> i havent seen that one either
[00:55:50] <Tom_L> i have
[00:55:52] <zeeshan> where
[00:56:10] <zeeshan> tom you're right!
[00:56:12] <Tom_L> usually on sheetmetal assemblies
[00:56:15] <zeeshan> you're 100% right
[00:56:20] <Tom_L> ?
[00:56:22] <zeeshan> theyre curved on the sparkplugs
[00:56:24] <zeeshan> i just recall now
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[00:57:35] <Tom_L> https://www.google.com/search?q=crush+washers&client=firefox-a&hs=2h6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&imgil=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%253BqF3j0ezreD7eWM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.piloteers.org%25252Fforums%25252F18-maintenance%25252F9153-crush-washer-plug-pics.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%252CqF3j0ezreD7eWM%252C_&usg=__f53vVAryjyNomtfsGvM5uLws1Oc%3D&biw=1004&bih=614#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=E3PbU2FxZm3OPM%253A%3BqF3j
[00:57:45] <Tom_L> got your money's worth on that link...
[00:58:10] <Tom_L> oil pan plugs use em too
[00:58:26] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/images?q=crush+washers
[00:58:46] <Tom_L> you got jipped
[00:59:01] <Jymmm> =)
[00:59:11] <zeeshan> lol
[00:59:12] <zeeshan> i have seen those
[00:59:17] <zeeshan> theyre all over my hydraulic / fuel fittings
[00:59:18] <zeeshan> in the car
[00:59:50] <zeeshan> okay so cup washers = sparkplugs, hydraulic fittings
[00:59:50] <Tom_L> generally made for one use
[00:59:57] <zeeshan> inside/external tooth = sheet metal assemblies
[01:00:07] <zeeshan> torque washer i've seen on axle nuts
[01:00:11] <Tom_L> as are internal star
[01:00:17] <zeeshan> just not the 4 tab kind
[01:02:10] <Tom_L> cup washers are also used on baby stroller axles
[01:02:11] <Tom_L> etc
[01:02:18] <Tom_L> so they push on but won't back off
[01:02:26] <Tom_L> usually those have a couple slots in them
[01:02:27] <zeeshan> ah
[01:02:58] <Tom_L> or other similar apps
[01:03:04] <Tom_L> one time use generally
[01:08:10] <Tom_L> what series pulley did you say you used?
[01:08:18] <Tom_L> MXL?
[01:08:34] <zeeshan> mxl
[01:09:14] <Tom_L> that's similar pitch to 2mm GT2
[01:09:27] <zeeshan> i remember it being .375" pitch
[01:09:36] <Tom_L> this says .080
[01:09:41] <zeeshan> something was .375
[01:09:44] <Tom_L> L
[01:09:44] <zeeshan> or the belt width
[01:09:46] <Tom_L> is
[01:09:50] <zeeshan> 9.525 mm
[01:09:55] <zeeshan> i dont remember the pitch
[01:10:01] <Tom_L> XL is .200 pitch
[01:10:14] <Tom_L> L is .375
[01:10:27] <zeeshan> mxl is?
[01:10:32] <Tom_L> .080
[01:10:42] <zeeshan> okay sweet
[01:10:50] <zeeshan> visually looking at that
[01:10:52] <zeeshan> makes sense
[01:11:04] <zeeshan> whats your spindles torque
[01:11:10] <zeeshan> and rpm
[01:11:13] <Tom_L> no idea
[01:11:16] <Tom_L> rpm is 5k
[01:11:20] <zeeshan> how many watt
[01:11:26] <Tom_L> i generally run it around 3k
[01:11:34] <Tom_L> i don't know about the motor
[01:11:44] <Tom_L> unmarked but it's 90V DC
[01:11:54] <zeeshan> haha i guess no way to tell
[01:11:57] <zeeshan> without knowing the current
[01:12:13] <Tom_L> i'm fairly confident the 3mm GT2 will be ok
[01:13:14] <Tom_L> they make a 5mm GT2 too
[01:13:37] <Tom_L> thing about the GT2 is it is supposed to make better contact than the other series
[01:13:48] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/KzKTknY.jpg
[01:13:51] <zeeshan> only pic i can find
[01:15:20] <Tom_L> did they have the right bores or did you fix that?
[01:16:03] <zeeshan> one of them was the right bore
[01:16:07] <zeeshan> the other one i had to drill and ream
[01:16:19] <zeeshan> the big one you see
[01:16:24] <zeeshan> all my pulleys were in imperial
[01:16:32] <zeeshan> you can buy them in metric bores from sdp-si
[01:16:38] <zeeshan> but it costs too much to order from that place
[01:16:45] <zeeshan> local supplier had em for half the price of sdp-si
[01:17:01] <zeeshan> i dont know what kind of steel it is
[01:17:04] <zeeshan> but its hard
[01:17:07] <zeeshan> it doesnt machine too easily
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[01:24:35] <gennro> Well I have 98% of my parts to start building my cnc laser engraver/burning stuff
[01:25:00] <jdh> later you can buy the other 98%
[01:25:16] <gennro> yup
[01:26:15] <gennro> 3w blue laser should be fun
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[02:53:04] <ssi> nice!
[02:53:26] <ssi> I referred a friend of mine to an old client of mine to take over all their EE work that I used to do
[02:53:30] <XXCoder> too bad he pinged out
[02:53:34] <ssi> and they need me to come back and contract for them
[02:53:56] <ssi> and their new pcbs are bigger than my eagle license allows, so they bought me a pro license
[02:53:59] <ssi> I've been wanting that for ages
[02:54:22] <XXCoder> funny how luck works out
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[03:01:24] <XXCoder> ssi: hows your laser cnc so far
[03:01:33] <ssi> pretty good
[03:01:38] <Someinfoneeded> Is there a default hardware LinuxCNC supports?
[03:01:46] <ssi> there's some stuff I'd do differently if I were building it today, but overall it's working well
[03:01:56] <Someinfoneeded> I was about to run with Pluto-Servo
[03:02:13] <XXCoder> yeah theres always something like that :)
[03:02:14] <ssi> Someinfoneeded: not really a default... there's lots of different supported setups
[03:02:43] <Someinfoneeded> ssi, ty. I guess I'm looking for, What MOST use..
[03:03:10] <ssi> I think in this channel, overwhelmingly people use mesa hardware
[03:03:18] <ssi> I could be wrong about that, but that's mostly what gets discussed :)
[03:03:19] <Someinfoneeded> haha
[03:03:22] <Someinfoneeded> ok
[03:03:23] <ssi> I certainly use tons of it
[03:03:34] <ssi> I have something like seven machines on mesa gear right now
[03:03:52] <Someinfoneeded> Jeff Epler's blog said that he no longer recommends pluto.
[03:04:01] <Someinfoneeded> But I couldn't find out why
[03:04:03] <ssi> tell me about your machine
[03:04:10] <Someinfoneeded> Hurco
[03:04:13] <Someinfoneeded> KMB1
[03:04:41] <Someinfoneeded> It's a beast and hella hard to move
[03:04:53] <ssi> hehe I'm sure
[03:04:57] <ssi> you doing a retrofit on it?
[03:06:33] <Someinfoneeded> keyboard stared failing there... weird, anyways 90v servo and 7hp pwm spindle
[03:06:48] <ssi> 90V brush motors I guess?
[03:06:53] <Someinfoneeded> I am going to retofit it one way or another..
[03:07:53] <ssi> well, personally as far as IO hardware, I'd say go with one of the 7i77 kits from mesa
[03:07:59] <ssi> it ought to handle everything on that machine
[03:08:31] <ssi> very well supported, excellent performance, and reasonably priced
[03:09:59] <Someinfoneeded> Alrighty googling it now, ssi, I appreciate the time and information..
[03:11:37] <ssi> sure thing
[03:12:23] <Someinfoneeded> Well sir, that ain't bad.. err, I'm assuming sir...
[03:13:15] <ssi> sir works :)
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[03:13:31] <ssi> yeah, it's really nice hardware for very reasonable money
[03:13:47] <ssi> I don't get kickbacks or anything for recommending the stuff, I just really really like it a lot
[03:14:25] <Someinfoneeded> I briefly looked at galil..
[03:15:11] <ssi> I don't know much about galil
[03:15:21] <Someinfoneeded> That pulled my pockets out of my pant just glancing at prices.
[03:15:41] <ssi> not surprising
[03:15:54] <ssi> most of the stuff in this industry is absurdly priced, especially if you're a hobbyist
[03:16:16] <Someinfoneeded> There hardware is ROCK solid. We use the multi-axis controllers all the time.. Never bought them for my company
[03:16:20] <ssi> that's one reason I love the mesa stuff so much... mortals can afford to buy it, it's very capable, and all the software is open source
[03:17:04] <ssi> I don't trust anything that won't give you the price on the website :)
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[03:20:13] <XXCoder> yeah
[03:20:21] <Someinfoneeded> Ha, yeah, Ebay old models (serial communication) and it's 500+
[03:20:24] <XXCoder> to me no price = too expensive for me
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[03:25:11] <Someinfoneeded> The 7I77 board shows optically isolated I/O, which is great, but non-replaceable parts, which sucks. I guess I can add a couple of dip chips in between inputs and outputs for replacable security..
[03:27:54] <Tom_itx> or send it in for fix
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[03:28:15] <Tom_itx> better yet, don't screw it up
[03:28:53] <ssi> I've repaired mine before
[03:28:55] <zeeshan> Someinfoneeded: i dunno if you know this, but PCW is a mesa guru
[03:29:01] <ssi> and I may have to again :(
[03:29:07] <zeeshan> what blew up
[03:29:24] <zeeshan> !seen asah
[03:29:24] <the_wench> last seen in 2014-10-15 22:15:06GMT 150:14:18 ago, saying Quit: asah
[03:29:28] <ssi> stupid lab supply got bumped, and the 5v source got overvolted
[03:29:31] <Tom_itx> or keep a spare in rotation
[03:29:33] <ssi> saw 15v for a fraction of a second
[03:29:35] <zeeshan> anyone know how to contact asah
[03:29:36] <zeeshan> through forums
[03:29:38] <zeeshan> or email
[03:30:06] <zeeshan> its amazing
[03:30:08] <zeeshan> how scary google is
[03:30:09] <Someinfoneeded> I'm trying to decided about hardware, nothing blew up..
[03:30:12] <zeeshan> i found his email in a minute
[03:30:41] <Someinfoneeded> Not screwing up sounds like a swell Idea..
[03:30:43] <Tom_itx> Someinfoneeded he was referring to ssi
[03:30:54] <ssi> yeah I'm the king of blowing up hardware
[03:30:54] <XXCoder> http://hackaday.com/2014/10/21/carvey-the-cnc-machine-for-everyone/ HMMMM
[03:31:00] <ssi> two nights in a row now! :D
[03:31:12] <zeeshan> i thought you were kidding about the amc drive?
[03:31:20] <ssi> what makes you think I was kidding?
[03:31:24] <zeeshan> i dont know
[03:31:28] <zeeshan> howd you blow it
[03:31:45] <ssi> I told the whole story in here earlier
[03:31:54] <zeeshan> 1 line summary?
[03:31:54] <zeeshan> :D
[03:32:12] <ssi> shorted the dc bus
[03:32:15] <zeeshan> executive summary as they call it
[03:32:18] <zeeshan> in the CEO world
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[03:32:51] <zeeshan> how does a dc bus short?
[03:32:59] <zeeshan> flipping the polarity of + / - ?
[03:32:59] <ssi> you'll need the full report for that info
[03:33:13] <zeeshan> haha
[03:33:18] <zeeshan> damn this full report
[03:33:28] <ssi> might have to submit a FOIA request
[03:33:48] <zeeshan> haha
[03:33:59] <zeeshan> can you give me a keyword you said
[03:34:01] <zeeshan> so i can search back
[03:34:12] <ssi> look for "tweezer"
[03:34:50] <zeeshan> LOL
[03:34:50] <zeeshan> found it
[03:34:58] <zeeshan> those dip switches do look like a retarded design
[03:35:01] <zeeshan> correct me if im wrong
[03:35:08] <zeeshan> but on is TOWARDS the inner guts of the drive
[03:35:12] <zeeshan> and off is away from the inner guts
[03:35:13] <ssi> correct
[03:35:16] <zeeshan> so stupid
[03:35:30] <zeeshan> how hard would it have been to flip that shit 90 degrees
[03:35:43] <ssi> it would make them even harder to use
[03:35:49] <zeeshan> really?
[03:35:51] <zeeshan> my stepper ones are 90 deg
[03:35:53] <ssi> the real problem is that they're covered up by the enclosure
[03:35:56] <zeeshan> well you have the same drives
[03:36:00] <zeeshan> oh
[03:36:04] <ssi> and so you have to stick a tool down in the enclosure to hit them
[03:36:11] <zeeshan> well at least you didnt get hurt
[03:36:13] <zeeshan> thats all that matters
[03:36:18] <ssi> not much anyway
[03:36:22] <zeeshan> plasma hitting your face is never good
[03:36:37] <ssi> PCW: are you around perchance?
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[03:41:07] <Someinfoneeded> Anyone have a IRC client they recommend? It's been a while, like 10-15 years..
[03:41:13] <zeeshan> i use kvirc
[03:41:17] <ssi> irssi here
[03:41:19] <zeeshan> in windows
[03:41:34] <zeeshan> and xchat in ubuntu
[03:41:41] <zeeshan> irssi is too hardcore :P
[03:42:15] <Someinfoneeded> I'm using kwiic web client and it just feels wrong..
[03:42:25] <zeeshan> what os?
[03:43:22] <roycroft> i've been using ircii for the past 20 years
[03:43:40] <ssi> god my luck really hasn't been running high lately
[03:43:40] <zeeshan> you guys don't like your gui?
[03:43:45] <zeeshan> im on 3 different irc servers
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[03:44:01] <zeeshan> ssi wtf happened
[03:44:06] <roycroft> i like guis for some things
[03:44:18] <ssi> just something miserable every day for the last several days
[03:44:20] <roycroft> but they're a waste of real estate and other resources for most things, imo
[03:44:26] <zeeshan> what blew up
[03:44:33] <ssi> two steps forward, one step back, every damn day
[03:44:38] <zeeshan> roycroft: its 2014 mate
[03:44:40] <Someinfoneeded> os? Win7
[03:44:41] <zeeshan> we got resources to waste
[03:44:47] <roycroft> i'm on a macbook pro, and have 5 xterms open on my primary screen
[03:44:50] <ssi> well I killed something in the field/analog supply of the '77
[03:44:56] <ssi> and ISE is being a piece of shit, right on schedule
[03:45:15] <ssi> the fitter is finishing successfully, then crashing
[03:45:24] <ssi> and ISE refuses to go beyond the fitting step because it crashed
[03:45:27] <roycroft> this particular xterm has a black background and green text
[03:45:31] <roycroft> like an old adm3
[03:45:52] <ssi> but beyond that, I'm pretty sure the reason that my code is working crazy/bad is because I don't have any signal conditioning on the encoder signals, and they're bouncing and/or noisy
[03:46:03] <zeeshan> are you talking about TB1
[03:46:04] <zeeshan> or TB2?
[03:46:31] <ssi> after the power hiccup, CR6 is very very dimly lit, and CR7 is out
[03:46:37] <ssi> I'm pretty sure both of those were on previously
[03:46:46] <ssi> and the analog outs for the servo drives aren't working
[03:46:55] <ssi> and if I had to guess, I'd say none of the field IO would be working
[03:46:55] <zeeshan> i see it now in the manual
[03:46:58] <zeeshan> "TB2 field power"
[03:47:06] <ssi> I'm not supplying any field power right now
[03:47:12] <ssi> it was the 5v power that hiccuped
[03:47:15] <zeeshan> o
[03:48:08] <zeeshan> i find it a little ridiculus
[03:48:18] <zeeshan> well actually it depends
[03:48:23] <zeeshan> if it went beyond 5v
[03:48:30] <zeeshan> if it did, i understand something blowing up
[03:48:36] <ssi> it did
[03:48:37] <zeeshan> but if it fluctuated between 0 and 5
[03:48:40] <zeeshan> it shouldnt blow up
[03:48:44] <zeeshan> o
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[03:49:16] <zeeshan> hopefully pcw can tell you what chip to replace
[03:49:22] <ssi> yeah usually he can
[03:49:55] <zeeshan> the reason i was asking the other day about meanwell 5v supplies
[03:49:57] <zeeshan> is for this reason
[03:50:06] <zeeshan> i dont want that shit to go to 5.5v for some odd reason
[03:50:08] <zeeshan> and blow something up
[03:50:19] <zeeshan> the general consensus is that they are decent supplies
[03:50:24] <zeeshan> and only flucture 4.99-5.01
[03:50:27] <zeeshan> *fluctuate
[03:50:36] <zeeshan> theyre also internally fused
[03:50:44] <zeeshan> so you dont have to have an external branch fuse for em
[03:51:30] <ssi> sigh
[03:51:35] <ssi> branch fuses protect the wire
[03:51:42] <zeeshan> yes
[03:51:58] <zeeshan> but im using them to protect the device
[03:52:09] <zeeshan> 3 different devices are running off the 15 A branch breaker
[03:52:17] <zeeshan> one of them draws 10 a, the other draws 1a and 3a
[03:52:24] <zeeshan> i was concerned about the 3a device catching on figure
[03:52:26] <zeeshan> same with 1a
[03:52:31] <zeeshan> *figure = fire
[03:52:36] <ssi> just make sure the wires to each device are 15a rated
[03:52:40] <zeeshan> so i was thinking of putting a 3A fuse and 1A fuse
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[03:52:47] <zeeshan> to blow before the device catches on fire
[03:52:55] <zeeshan> they all get the same wire rated for 14awg
[03:53:00] <zeeshan> but that doesn't protect the device
[03:53:06] <ssi> good
[03:53:13] <ssi> yeah the devices can be fused at the device if you want
[03:53:17] <ssi> also
[03:53:21] <zeeshan> but later i found out, good power supplies have internal fuses
[03:53:24] <ssi> 5.5v isn't going to kill anything
[03:53:28] <zeeshan> they dont necessarily have a typical glass fuse
[03:53:35] <zeeshan> but they have those black / red type fuses
[03:53:56] <zeeshan> http://jumperone.com/images/2012/08/meanwell-nes-15-12-psu-teardown/001huge.jpg
[03:54:02] <zeeshan> that red thing bottom right
[03:54:04] <zeeshan> cylinder
[03:54:11] <zeeshan> id idnt know that was a fuse :)
[03:54:34] <zeeshan> ssi: i blew up a hobby circuit before
[03:54:41] <zeeshan> when it went to 5.5V
[03:54:42] <zeeshan> haha
[03:54:49] <zeeshan> it was some LED circuit
[03:54:51] <ssi> I mean on the 7i77
[03:54:53] <zeeshan> oh
[03:54:56] <ssi> it should be tolerant of 5.5V
[03:55:03] <ssi> but it's definitely not tolerant of 15V :(
[03:55:46] <zeeshan> why arent you running a 5V supply
[03:55:50] <zeeshan> directly to tht
[03:55:53] <zeeshan> or were you bench testing it
[03:55:56] <zeeshan> with a variable supply?
[03:55:57] <ssi> I'm on the bench
[03:56:00] <zeeshan> ah fuck
[03:56:01] <ssi> the bench supply got bumped
[03:56:04] <zeeshan> fak
[03:56:44] <Someinfoneeded> Note to self, don't use a variable power supply
[03:56:59] <ssi> heh if there's a way to blow something up, I'll find it :)
[03:56:59] <Someinfoneeded> that sucks
[03:57:05] <ssi> it's ok, I can fix it
[03:57:19] <ssi> I'll probably order a second anyway to have a spare
[03:57:45] <Someinfoneeded> You where just trying to find the quickest way to failure..
[03:57:56] <Someinfoneeded> just being efficient
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[03:58:39] <Someinfoneeded> so in reality you succeded
[03:58:55] <Someinfoneeded> nope I tried, not bright side
[03:59:01] <Someinfoneeded> no bright*
[03:59:08] <zeeshan> silence!
[03:59:14] <zeeshan> people are trying to sleep
[03:59:19] <ssi> wat
[03:59:45] <Someinfoneeded> Yes sir...
[04:01:19] <Someinfoneeded> ssi, ty for the insight on the hardware... Good luck with fixing your 7i77 board..
[04:01:29] <ssi> thanks, I hope it didn't scare you off them :)
[04:01:59] <zeeshan> i can't wait to get the mesa hardware
[04:02:04] <zeeshan> i wonder how long it'll take to get here
[04:02:08] <zeeshan> i ordered thursday or friday
[04:02:10] <zeeshan> i forget
[04:02:15] <ssi> they usually ship usps priority
[04:02:17] <zeeshan> its coming from cali to hamilton
[04:02:18] <ssi> 2 day for me, coast to coast
[04:02:23] <zeeshan> wow
[04:02:30] <zeeshan> so i should get it by friday then likely
[04:02:41] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: I had to pay like $100 duty for a mesa kit - just a warning:)
[04:02:51] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: i used usps
[04:02:52] <zeeshan> not ups
[04:02:56] <Someinfoneeded> Scare, nah, I was all ready looking one how to protect the board further before you mention your was broke while I was on the channel.
[04:03:08] <zeeshan> ups/dhl/fedex
[04:03:11] <zeeshan> all rape you on brokerage
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[04:03:24] <zeeshan> usps/canada post brokerage fee is $5
[04:03:26] <zeeshan> + tax
[04:03:52] <Someinfoneeded> is that from me?
[04:04:02] <zeeshan> Someinfoneeded:
[04:04:09] <zeeshan> just follow the spec sheet the board comes with
[04:04:11] <zeeshan> and you wont have issue
[04:04:18] <ssi> yeah they're really not that bad
[04:04:21] <ssi> just don't do anything too dumb
[04:04:27] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, when I was ordering I don't think it was an option (or maybe it was more expensive and I've choosen the least expensive one)
[04:04:36] <zeeshan> theres a couple ways to blow up electronics from my noob experience
[04:04:37] <ssi> I killed an output driver on a 7i76 once by switching a solenoid without an external flyback diode
[04:04:42] <zeeshan> i havent done these but i've heard of it
[04:04:47] <zeeshan> if you flip the polarity on the supply
[04:04:49] <zeeshan> you'll blow it up
[04:05:00] <zeeshan> if you overvoltage the supply, you'll blow it
[04:05:01] <ssi> I killed the bus switches on a 5i25 by applying 300V plasma torch voltage to an input :D
[04:05:04] <zeeshan> so stay away from shitty power supplies
[04:05:25] <zeeshan> theres a reason why computer people love their stable power supplies
[04:05:30] <zeeshan> cause unstable power supplies blow up crap
[04:05:44] <zeeshan> LOL ssi
[04:05:51] <zeeshan> was that an easy fix?
[04:06:01] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: yes its more expensive that ups
[04:06:05] <zeeshan> it was ups 28 bux
[04:06:09] <zeeshan> and 36 bux usps
[04:06:13] <ssi> zeeshan: yeah
[04:06:17] <zeeshan> but it saves you massively during the cross border fees
[04:06:21] <ssi> pcw sent me some bus switch chips and I swapped em
[04:06:29] <zeeshan> it'll be like 21 dollars in cross border fees
[04:06:33] <zeeshan> nice ssi
[04:06:39] <zeeshan> see thats another great thing about mesa
[04:06:42] <zeeshan> SUPPORT
[04:06:52] <zeeshan> 1. you're not getting raped in cost
[04:06:54] <ssi> yeah I'm pretty sure if you mail it to them they'll fix it for you
[04:07:00] <zeeshan> 2. it's not a centroid so its not propeitry
[04:07:02] <zeeshan> 3. support!
[04:07:04] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: Yes, but I did not know just choosing different postal service somhoe changes the duty and taxes - it's weird.
[04:07:08] <ssi> I dunno if it's free or not, probably depends on how dumb you are and how frequently you are dumb
[04:07:19] <ssi> but pcw mailed me chips cause I have the tools to do it myself
[04:07:21] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: all the big couriers charge a crazy amount of brokerage fees
[04:07:26] <zeeshan> which is a % of the value of your item
[04:07:39] <zeeshan> whereas canada post charges a standard $5 irregardless of value
[04:07:44] <ssi> I just ordered another 7i77 kit
[04:07:53] <ssi> so I'll have something working by the end of the week, and a spare when I repair this one
[04:08:04] <zeeshan> ssi
[04:08:07] <ssi> actually this kit I stole from the g0704 project
[04:08:08] <zeeshan> ask him to ship you an ic
[04:08:11] <zeeshan> or whatever blew up
[04:08:12] <zeeshan> so you can fix it!
[04:08:19] <zeeshan> and not pay shipping twice
[04:08:21] <ssi> I need to talk to him first and figure out what's likely to be dead
[04:08:30] <ssi> i can likely just sneak it into my next digikey order
[04:08:32] <ssi> no big deal
[04:08:33] <LeelooMinai> I will be wiring my mesa thing romorrow, as I finally got shielded cat cable for steppers.
[04:08:43] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15255003539/
[04:08:48] <zeeshan> isn't cat cable very thin?
[04:08:53] <zeeshan> like 24awg?
[04:08:57] <LeelooMinai> https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15305130730/ :)
[04:09:14] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I will pair them to get them to same area as 18 awg - should do
[04:09:23] <LeelooMinai> Since I need 4 per stepper anyways
[04:09:26] <ssi> zeeshan: my plasma table and laser both have cat5 for their stepper wires
[04:09:30] <ssi> not even paired :P
[04:09:33] <ssi> they don't heat too bad
[04:09:42] <zeeshan> well i guess it depends on the draw right
[04:09:44] <zeeshan> im running big steppers
[04:09:48] <zeeshan> i calculated 18awg
[04:09:55] <ssi> plasma is all 3A
[04:09:58] <zeeshan> oh
[04:10:01] <ssi> it's a bit too much for the wiring, but not terrible
[04:10:05] <LeelooMinai> I did research for it and 18awg is fine, and then 24 paired will be too
[04:10:26] <zeeshan> i used that grey wire stuff
[04:10:30] <zeeshan> that has foil in it
[04:10:34] <zeeshan> dunno what its called
[04:10:39] <zeeshan> found it at a electronics place
[04:10:44] <zeeshan> 36 bux for 100 feet
[04:10:48] <ssi> 2x24 isn't equivalent to 18awg tho
[04:10:51] <zeeshan> i feel ike i got raped
[04:10:54] <ssi> closer to 21awg
[04:11:03] <zeeshan> yea
[04:11:07] <LeelooMinai> That's why I used STP cable instead:)
[04:11:07] <zeeshan> pi r^2
[04:11:11] <zeeshan> homie!
[04:11:14] <ssi> 24awg is 404 cmil
[04:11:17] <LeelooMinai> It was much cheaper than specialized 4-wire cable with shield
[04:11:20] <ssi> 18awg is 1620cmil
[04:11:34] <zeeshan> 404*2 != 1620
[04:11:35] * LeelooMinai looks sternly at ssi
[04:11:38] <zeeshan> its cause of the r^2 relationship
[04:11:43] <zeeshan> of cross sectional area
[04:11:55] <ssi> zeeshan: I got into an argument with a waitress at a pizza joint once upon a time
[04:12:00] <ssi> said pizza joint sells 30" pizzas
[04:12:03] <ssi> and 15" pizzas
[04:12:05] <zeeshan> LOL
[04:12:08] <LeelooMinai> I just used this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
[04:12:12] <ssi> and she was convinced that a 30" was the same as 2 15"
[04:12:13] <zeeshan> cmon man, you know better to argue with a pizza worker
[04:12:16] <zeeshan> LOL
[04:12:30] <ssi> LeelooMinai: I used the same table
[04:12:36] <zeeshan> i bet that waitress still thinks she's right till this day
[04:12:39] <ssi> what did you go by, the diameter?
[04:12:44] <ssi> cause that's the same as the pizza fail :)
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[04:13:03] <LeelooMinai> 0.823 mm^2 area for awg 18 and 0.205 for awg24
[04:13:06] <LeelooMinai> O... wait
[04:13:10] <ssi> aha!
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[04:13:32] <zeeshan> dont worry LeelooMinai
[04:13:32] <LeelooMinai> I bet I scrolled the table and selected wrong column when I lost sight of headers
[04:13:34] <zeeshan> it happens :P
[04:13:35] <LeelooMinai> Damn...
[04:13:46] <LeelooMinai> Well, I could use 2 per cable still...
[04:13:51] <ssi> it'll be fine
[04:13:53] <zeeshan> whats the draw
[04:13:53] <LeelooMinai> Join 4 of them
[04:14:04] <zeeshan> what size steppers
[04:14:06] <LeelooMinai> That would get me to awg18
[04:14:14] <ssi> man... canadians love to oversize wires ;)
[04:14:24] <zeeshan> ssi seriously its better to be safe
[04:14:28] <zeeshan> than have to deal with shit later on
[04:14:32] <ssi> oh I know
[04:14:37] <zeeshan> i mean we're dealing with simple stuff
[04:14:41] <zeeshan> but like the hospital distribution we did
[04:14:44] <zeeshan> everything was sized up
[04:14:48] <zeeshan> to allow for expansion
[04:14:54] <LeelooMinai> The steppers are the biggest from the Chinese nema23 ones - forgot what they are in amps
[04:14:55] <zeeshan> and to account for screw ups
[04:15:07] <ssi> and on a project like that, that's absolutely the right way to go
[04:15:10] <ssi> it's someone else's money for starters
[04:15:12] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I guess I will need to drill more holes in my alu plate then:/
[04:15:15] <ssi> and the labor costs more than the parts
[04:15:22] <zeeshan> btw i decided to grab that 3 gauge wire
[04:15:23] <ssi> but for something like your mill service
[04:15:28] <ssi> did you? lol
[04:15:30] <zeeshan> cause i can beneift from having extra 240vac
[04:15:33] <LeelooMinai> Amd I thought I was done:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/100017731@N03/15305172798/in/photostream/
[04:15:33] <zeeshan> on the other side of the garage
[04:15:37] <zeeshan> i can move my bead roller there
[04:15:49] <zeeshan> right now there is only 110vac there
[04:15:57] <zeeshan> which sucks a lot :P
[04:16:13] <LeelooMinai> Drilling time tomorrow then.
[04:16:13] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: your drill press skills are great
[04:16:35] <LeelooMinai> What skills - you pull the handle and boom, hole
[04:16:39] <ssi> haha
[04:16:43] <zeeshan> :D
[04:16:43] <ssi> hopefully no boom
[04:16:49] <ssi> usually boom means something went horribly awry
[04:16:56] <zeeshan> my boom was a powersupply failure
[04:17:02] <zeeshan> usually things happen pretty quick :P
[04:17:19] <zeeshan> have you had an explosion
[04:17:29] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10659421_10203230039811417_6820100637874985074_n.jpg?oh=0a094d5bccf25b8025f2e2a9e924fbb1&oe=54AA7C7D&__gda__=1421367336_d6533c32c8bb34944535c7c7f21ebcf9
[04:17:29] <zeeshan> where you feel the heat wave on the hairs of your face?
[04:17:36] <zeeshan> LOL
[04:17:46] <zeeshan> wow thats halarious
[04:17:49] <zeeshan> it hurts
[04:18:01] <zeeshan> thats the most retarded looking plane too
[04:18:12] <Someinfoneeded> No, it's better....
[04:18:32] <Someinfoneeded> you know for turning
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[04:19:06] <zeeshan> when i was doing that .5" depth of cut in aluminum
[04:19:13] <zeeshan> i kept my hands on the wire running to the Z stepper
[04:19:20] <zeeshan> i was worried the 18awg would overheat
[04:19:20] <zeeshan> lol
[04:19:54] <ssi> zeeshan: you know a couple weeks ago I set the bed of the laser on fire?
[04:19:57] <ssi> that was an exciting day too
[04:20:02] <zeeshan> haha
[04:20:04] <zeeshan> whats the bed made out of?
[04:20:08] <zeeshan> your favourite mdf?
[04:20:15] <zeeshan> wait i think it was you against mdf
[04:20:15] <ssi> well it was 1/4" plywood
[04:20:21] <zeeshan> that was LeelooMinai the mdf lover
[04:20:24] <ssi> yeah heh
[04:20:33] <ssi> mdf is a miserable substance
[04:20:39] <zeeshan> like aids
[04:20:40] <ssi> I'll use it for certain things, but I don't have to like it
[04:20:52] <zeeshan> you know what mdf is great for?
[04:20:54] <ssi> the plywood bed support has been replaced with expanded metal
[04:20:58] <zeeshan> knocking someone out with
[04:20:58] <ssi> which isn't ideal because it reflects
[04:20:59] <zeeshan> thats it!
[04:21:02] <LeelooMinai> It doesn't like mosture very much
[04:21:12] <ssi> no, it doesn't like moisture at all
[04:21:23] <ssi> or battery acid, in fact
[04:21:27] <LeelooMinai> My favourite material is aluminum:)
[04:21:50] <zeeshan> can you run an angle grinder
[04:21:52] <zeeshan> of flap disk
[04:21:54] <LeelooMinai> Because it's good enough for most things and I can actually work with it
[04:21:56] <zeeshan> w/ 200 grit
[04:22:01] <zeeshan> and get rid of the gloss?
[04:22:07] <Someinfoneeded> ehh, work in 5 hours. night...
[04:22:15] <zeeshan> or blast it in the sand blaster
[04:22:36] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: did you see the cheap aluminum on kijiji
[04:22:39] <zeeshan> its kind of far from you
[04:22:46] <zeeshan> this guy is selling 600 lb of aluminum
[04:22:49] <zeeshan> plate, round bar
[04:22:51] <zeeshan> for $250
[04:22:58] <zeeshan> 6061 too
[04:23:09] <zeeshan> i picked up the roundbar from him
[04:23:09] <LeelooMinai> Sounds like a deal
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[04:23:21] <zeeshan> i have no use for that plate
[04:23:38] <LeelooMinai> what city was that?
[04:23:41] <zeeshan> st catharines
[04:23:44] <zeeshan> so kinda far from you
[04:23:48] <zeeshan> 45 min for me
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[04:24:30] <zeeshan> did you guys know
[04:24:37] <zeeshan> that stainless steel doesn't like chlorine?
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[04:25:02] <zeeshan> in steam engines when they use tap water
[04:25:12] <zeeshan> the chlorine attacks the grain boundaries in the stainless
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[04:25:16] <zeeshan> and you get microcracks
[04:25:31] <zeeshan> (at higher temperatures, chlorine seperates from the tap water)
[04:26:00] <zeeshan> "intragranular stress corrosion cracking-induced"
[04:26:26] <zeeshan> sometimes called " chloride stress corrosion cracking"
[04:26:32] <zeeshan> okay enough of fun fact for the night
[04:26:33] <zeeshan> :D
[04:26:37] <LeelooMinai> Maybe that's why long time ago I decided not to use tap water for tea:)
[04:27:08] <zeeshan> :D
[04:28:33] <zeeshan> http://www.repeater-builder.com/other-mfrs/megawatt-ps/load-test-cable.jpg
[04:28:42] <zeeshan> does anyone wire their psu wires like this?
[04:28:47] <zeeshan> i just give the wires in
[04:28:49] <zeeshan> and clamp it down lol
[04:29:02] <zeeshan> i've had some ring terminals fail on my in car applications
[04:29:04] <LeelooMinai> That's nice
[04:29:11] <zeeshan> so i try to avoid em
[04:29:11] <LeelooMinai> I shall do that too:)
[04:29:31] <zeeshan> at eaton
[04:29:38] <zeeshan> we used to do our control power wiring w/ these things:
[04:29:53] <zeeshan> ofcourse i cant find it
[04:30:18] <zeeshan> http://www.wirebarn.com/assets/images/pin%20terminals/16-14%20-%20vinyl%20insulated%20pin%20terminal.jpg
[04:30:19] <zeeshan> this is not it
[04:30:22] <zeeshan> but it looked similar to it
[04:30:27] <zeeshan> and that end would get shoved in
[04:31:24] <ssi> zeeshan: ferrules
[04:31:26] <zeeshan> att he company the in company rule was
[04:31:27] <zeeshan> https://s3.amazonaws.com/cesco-content/unilog/Batch6/781810/17224-ProductImageURL.jpg
[04:31:29] <zeeshan> for something like that
[04:31:30] <ssi> and yes I used them exclusively on the hnc
[04:31:37] <zeeshan> you would need to use ferrules (thank you ssi)
[04:31:39] <ssi> cause I used screwless dinrail terminal blocks
[04:31:43] <ssi> and the wires wouldn't hold
[04:31:45] <ssi> but the ferrules would
[04:32:21] <zeeshan> if you had "pads" on your terminal block
[04:32:29] <zeeshan> it was perfectly fine to just shove wires in there
[04:32:42] <zeeshan> there was no need to use ferrules
[04:33:14] <zeeshan> as you can tell
[04:33:17] <zeeshan> i miss working trhere :{
[04:33:19] <zeeshan> can't wait to graduate
[04:33:28] <zeeshan> my exboss has emailed me a few times asking me when ill graduate
[04:33:40] <zeeshan> but i at the same time want a more _mechanical_ eng job
[04:33:48] <zeeshan> making enclosures and doing heat transfer calculations isn't my idea of mech eng
[04:33:56] <zeeshan> i want to be designing heavy equipment like cranes!
[04:34:28] <zeeshan> eaton's work environemnt is a+++++
[04:34:30] <zeeshan> flex time
[04:34:35] <zeeshan> people are stupid friendly
[04:34:42] <zeeshan> if you make a mistake, you don't get yelled at
[04:35:01] <zeeshan> people have a way to communicate that you made an error without making you feel like a nobody
[04:35:01] <ssi> speaking of eaton
[04:35:04] <roycroft> while looking for stepper motors, i see that there are some with encoders for a reasonable price
[04:35:11] <ssi> there is a place in the town I live in called Eaton Chiropractic
[04:35:14] <roycroft> is it worth paying a bit extra for them?
[04:35:22] <ssi> and there used to be an ice cream parlor next door named Eatin' Ice Cream
[04:35:23] <zeeshan> roycroft: what kind of encoders?
[04:35:29] <ssi> and it made me laugh and laugh
[04:35:33] <zeeshan> hah
[04:35:37] <roycroft> and do they work easily with linuxcnc? (or is that just a function of the controllers)
[04:35:46] <roycroft> i shall have to go look again
[04:35:48] <zeeshan> roycroft if they're encoders
[04:35:58] <zeeshan> you might be able to setup a position loop in linuxcnc
[04:36:03] <zeeshan> to control errors in position
[04:36:14] <zeeshan> like detect loss of steps
[04:36:15] <roycroft> the ones i'm seeing just say "with optical encoder"
[04:36:24] <zeeshan> how well it'll work, i have no clue
[04:36:42] <zeeshan> ssi did i show you this pic
[04:36:46] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zpsc0883b70.jpg
[04:36:47] <zeeshan> thats like
[04:36:49] <roycroft> it would seem to be the best of both worlds
[04:36:55] <zeeshan> 800 lb of copper
[04:36:58] <roycroft> which probably means it doesn't fit well in either
[04:36:59] <zeeshan> in that one enclosure lol
[04:37:13] <zeeshan> one of the jobs i had on top of routing based on the electrical drawings
[04:37:18] <zeeshan> was supporting all that weight
[04:37:27] <zeeshan> using those fiberglass isolators
[04:38:01] <ssi> neat
[04:38:03] <zeeshan> roycroft: try it out
[04:38:05] <zeeshan> report to us
[04:38:11] <zeeshan> if you suceed ill throw encoders on mine
[04:38:19] <ssi> so looks like I'm gonna be stuck spinning another board fairly quickly
[04:38:29] <roycroft> when i build the router i'm going to buy one stepper motor at first
[04:38:40] <ssi> roycroft: you absolutely can do some fun things with encoder'd steppers
[04:38:41] <roycroft> just to see how it works
[04:38:51] <zeeshan> i took a picture of my f up at the company too
[04:38:55] <ssi> roycroft: setup a stepgen in velocity mode and then treat it like a velocity mode servo
[04:38:56] <zeeshan> as a reminder
[04:38:57] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps02b656a6.jpg
[04:38:57] <roycroft> i can always make that one with an encoder
[04:39:14] <zeeshan> i accidently specified on the drawings to paint the parts after forming/laser cutting
[04:39:16] <roycroft> get it going without hooking up the encoder, then see if i can make the encoder work
[04:39:21] <zeeshan> the poor welder had to strip the paint
[04:39:22] <zeeshan> and weld it
[04:39:26] <zeeshan> and deal wit hthe toxic fumes
[04:39:32] <zeeshan> its powdercoated
[04:40:29] <zeeshan> ssi: what'd be the benefit if having a stepper in velocity mode?
[04:40:35] <zeeshan> you could account for lost steps?
[04:40:42] <zeeshan> if = of
[04:40:45] <ssi> lots of benefits
[04:41:12] <ssi> it basically becomes a 50 pole low speed high torque AC servo
[04:41:20] <ssi> 2 phase
[04:41:28] <ssi> we were talking about this the other day in here
[04:41:31] <zeeshan> does that change the fact it has 200 discrete steps per rev?
[04:41:35] <ssi> stiffer axis, less idle current
[04:41:46] <ssi> no
[04:41:53] <zeeshan> so its still less accurate than aservo
[04:42:03] <ssi> why would it be less accurate than a servo?
[04:42:12] <ssi> my servos have 24 discrete "steps per rev"
[04:42:21] <roycroft> if you have a feedback loop, i.e. the encoder, should it not be able to detect inaccuracy and compensate?
[04:42:26] <ssi> yep
[04:42:28] <zeeshan> o
[04:42:39] <zeeshan> so why dont people do it more often!
[04:42:42] <zeeshan> steppers ftw!
[04:43:00] <zeeshan> massive torque loss at high speeds?
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[04:43:15] <roycroft> and if the motor still does microstepping one should be able to get granularity better than a ten thousandth
[04:43:22] <zeeshan> roycroft: false
[04:43:33] <zeeshan> microstepping doesnt increase the accuracy of your stepper
[04:43:33] <ssi> steppers won't run as fast as servos
[04:43:42] <ssi> roycroft: motors don't really "do" microstepping
[04:43:43] <ssi> the drives do
[04:43:51] <ssi> and the servo loop is going to give you something like microstepping
[04:44:03] <zeeshan> you can only ever be sure your accuracy is .28 degrees
[04:44:09] <zeeshan> or wahtever that number is that you calculate
[04:44:10] <ssi> which is basically flipping current between the two phases to hold an intermediate position
[04:44:11] <zeeshan> 200 / 360
[04:44:13] <ssi> same as servo jitter
[04:44:36] <roycroft> hmm
[04:44:38] <zeeshan> i didnt understand this concept for a couple of weeks
[04:44:40] <zeeshan> it took a while
[04:44:42] <zeeshan> but i finally got it
[04:44:46] <zeeshan> after i watched an animation
[04:44:54] <roycroft> so the only way to get finer granularity is to use a belt drive and differing sized sheaves
[04:45:00] <zeeshan> yea
[04:45:01] <roycroft> which would slow the thing down
[04:45:07] <zeeshan> or different pitch screw
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[04:45:11] <roycroft> right
[04:45:21] <roycroft> i have 5mm pitch screws
[04:45:35] <zeeshan> slow is all defined relative to who you're talking to
[04:45:37] <roycroft> which seem to be the common "finer" screw pitch
[04:45:40] <zeeshan> ssi likely thinks 100ipm is slow
[04:45:43] <zeeshan> i think 100 ipm is fast
[04:45:46] <ssi> hell yes it's slow
[04:45:56] <zeeshan> you can get a lotta stuff done at 100i pm on a lathe
[04:45:57] <zeeshan> no problem
[04:46:03] <zeeshan> but thats the thing
[04:46:05] <zeeshan> thats pretty much the limit
[04:46:08] <MrSunshine> my machine goes 4500mm/min and thats a bit to slow for rapids :)
[04:46:09] <zeeshan> 100-200 ipm
[04:46:13] <MrSunshine> i would like to atleast double that
[04:46:23] <ssi> MrSunshine: yeah that's pretty slow
[04:46:25] <MrSunshine> tho its a router but
[04:46:27] <zeeshan> 177 ipm
[04:46:30] <zeeshan> for imperialists
[04:46:44] <zeeshan> i was calculating the ideal feedrates
[04:46:47] <ssi> MrSunshine: my 50x50" gantry plasma machine does 15m/min
[04:46:47] <ssi> :)
[04:46:48] <zeeshan> for carbide cuttings in aluminum
[04:46:54] <zeeshan> its close to 100 ipm for aluminum
[04:46:56] <MrSunshine> ssi, yeah ... thinking of buying either simple servos or closed loop steppers to double that =)
[04:47:03] <zeeshan> to infinite
[04:47:06] <zeeshan> depending on machine rigidity
[04:47:26] <MrSunshine> ssi, well ... i would guess your X/Z weights alot less than mine to stop ... im having problems at fast stops with weight flexing the table :P
[04:47:28] <ssi> infinite, or infinitesimal?
[04:47:29] <zeeshan> i dont understand how closed loop steppers
[04:47:32] <zeeshan> will increase your speed
[04:47:36] <zeeshan> nah ssi, infinite
[04:47:45] <ssi> MrSunshine: yeah it's a fairly light gantry
[04:47:47] <ssi> and there's no cutting forces
[04:47:47] <zeeshan> lemme to the conversion for a sec
[04:47:55] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, yes .. more speed and no losing track of position
[04:48:04] <zeeshan> at our mmri machining lab
[04:48:08] <zeeshan> these guys machine aluminum at
[04:48:09] <zeeshan> 286 089.239 inches per minute
[04:48:16] <zeeshan> 286,089 ipm
[04:48:41] <zeeshan> that works out to 436km/h
[04:48:41] <ssi> hah
[04:48:49] <zeeshan> 270mph
[04:48:56] <zeeshan> most cars cant go that fast
[04:48:57] <zeeshan> lol
[04:48:59] <ssi> zeeshan: why don't you work out some preliminary feeds and speeds for my vmc for me
[04:49:07] <zeeshan> fak you
[04:49:09] <zeeshan> you have the 2 formulas
[04:49:13] <ssi> haha
[04:49:17] <zeeshan> rpm = 4*cutting speed / diameter
[04:49:18] <ssi> I'm busy writing verilog
[04:49:28] <MrSunshine> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152153395773648&l=561b193511 if that picture works .. thats my X/Z ... solid iron :P
[04:49:30] <zeeshan> feedrate = rpm * number of teeth * feed per tooth
[04:49:36] <MrSunshine> except the bearing blocks that are alu =)
[04:49:56] <zeeshan> MrSunshine: nice looking machine!
[04:50:03] <zeeshan> your own design?
[04:50:21] <ssi> zeeshan: what do you use for aluminum speeds? chart I'm looking at says 165sfm
[04:50:23] <MrSunshine> took a bit from mechmate .. the rails etc but other than that ive built it from my minds eye =)
[04:50:27] <zeeshan> ssi thats too slow
[04:50:29] <zeeshan> even for hss
[04:50:33] <zeeshan> hss you should be at 300sfm
[04:50:36] <MrSunshine> using an angle grinder, drill press and hand machines =)
[04:50:38] <zeeshan> for carbide anywhere from 600-2000sfm
[04:50:47] <zeeshan> you might even be able to do 3000
[04:50:51] <zeeshan> your machine is really rigid
[04:50:54] <ssi> yeah
[04:50:58] <ssi> well i'm gonna focus on hss initially
[04:50:59] <zeeshan> whats the top speed though
[04:51:02] <ssi> 10k
[04:51:11] <zeeshan> yea you'll pretty much be limited by that
[04:51:21] <ssi> yeah well that's a pretty good limit :P
[04:51:26] <zeeshan> so if you look at the feedrate formula
[04:51:28] <zeeshan> notice how rpm is in there
[04:51:31] <ssi> yeah I know
[04:51:51] <zeeshan> usually people like to use 3 flute cutters in aluminum
[04:51:55] <zeeshan> which toastydeath explained why
[04:52:04] <ssi> so for 300sfm, a half inch endmill would be 2400rpm
[04:52:07] <ssi> seems slow
[04:52:09] <zeeshan> its the most optimal geometry between metal removal and chip clearance
[04:52:22] <zeeshan> that sounds right for hss
[04:52:45] <zeeshan> you might be able to push it to 500 sfm
[04:52:49] <zeeshan> if you flood it with coolant
[04:53:03] <ssi> so 108ipm for a .015" chipload at 2400rpm
[04:53:06] <toastydeath> ssi, full slot or what
[04:53:14] <ssi> toastydeath: oh I dunno this is just mental math
[04:53:16] <zeeshan> i woke toastydeath up
[04:53:17] <zeeshan> :)
[04:53:22] <ssi> clearly :)
[04:53:22] <toastydeath> you did
[04:53:38] <toastydeath> hss is heat limited to 500-700 sfm in alum
[04:53:47] <toastydeath> depending on how the chips are coming off and clearing
[04:53:50] <ssi> toastydeath: just trying to get a ballpark idea of what sorts of feeds and speeds look sane for my machine, which isn't running yet and likely won't be for some weeks at the rate I keep killing hardware
[04:53:58] <toastydeath> how big is your machine
[04:54:11] <ssi> it's a 20x20x20" vmc, 9000lb
[04:54:13] <ssi> pretty rigid
[04:54:16] <ssi> 35mm linear rails
[04:54:23] <ssi> 10k 15hp spindle
[04:54:30] <zeeshan> you're notr gonna have any trouble raping aluminum
[04:54:31] <zeeshan> :)
[04:54:34] <zeeshan> at those speeds
[04:54:35] <ssi> yeah I'm sure
[04:54:44] <toastydeath> rule of thumb on a big machine is to keep the chip load as high as possible, but under about 2% of the diameter of the endmill
[04:54:48] <toastydeath> until you get into facemills
[04:54:55] <ssi> 2%?
[04:54:56] <toastydeath> endmills, the 2% rule is a good rule of thumb
[04:55:02] <ssi> oh the chipload under 2%
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[04:55:07] <XXCoder> ssi: by tme you're adding cnc mill to your router it may be too far. ;)
[04:55:08] <ssi> so .010" for a 1/2" cutter?
[04:55:13] <toastydeath> ya
[04:55:16] <ssi> makes sense
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[04:55:23] <toastydeath> and that's pushing it
[04:55:29] <zeeshan> if youre using indexable end mills
[04:55:31] <zeeshan> they come with specs too
[04:55:41] <ssi> I'll likely be using mostly hss endmills for starters
[04:55:41] <zeeshan> sfm and a_p and ipr
[04:55:42] <toastydeath> 1% is a good margin of safety for most sizes
[04:55:47] <toastydeath> the bigger it is, the harder you can run it
[04:56:03] <toastydeath> If you are NOT slotting
[04:56:21] <ssi> is that 2% figure for full slot?
[04:56:21] <toastydeath> you then calculate the hp requirement for the max amount of remval
[04:56:24] <toastydeath> nooooo
[04:56:28] <ssi> ok
[04:56:29] <toastydeath> full slot you have to back off quite a deal
[04:56:41] <MrSunshine> aparently 3 phase steppers have higher high rpm torque than bipolar ?
[04:56:50] <ssi> MrSunshine: 3 phase steppers are servos :)
[04:56:52] <MrSunshine> or two phase i ment
[04:57:09] <MrSunshine> ssi, nah ... not relay ? 1.2 deg step angle ... just like any ordenary stepepr? =)
[04:57:10] <MrSunshine> stepper
[04:57:22] <MrSunshine> tho mine has 1.8 degree (two phase)
[04:57:34] <MrSunshine> friends got 3 phase and they are 1.2 degree step angle
[04:57:36] <toastydeath> ssi, with aluminum and a big machine like that, I'd stay away from endmills for roughing
[04:57:39] <toastydeath> they'll hold you back
[04:57:48] <ssi> toastydeath: facemills instead?
[04:57:52] <toastydeath> definitely
[04:57:55] <toastydeath> get one with straight sided walls
[04:57:56] <XXCoder> magic
[04:58:01] <zeeshan> toastydeath: what do you think about indexable end mills
[04:58:05] <toastydeath> they're nice
[04:58:06] <zeeshan> thats what we use at school
[04:58:08] <ssi> I'll get there
[04:58:09] <zeeshan> for high speed machining
[04:58:15] <toastydeath> more rigid than a helical endmill
[04:58:20] <ssi> what I have right now is a bunch of ER32 collets and a drill chuck
[04:58:29] <ssi> but I'll try to invest in facemills
[04:58:36] <toastydeath> you only really need one
[04:58:39] <zeeshan> tehres so many parameters to consider though
[04:58:42] <zeeshan> rigidity of your setup
[04:58:47] <ssi> I have one downstairs but I think it's an R8
[04:58:49] <ssi> might be straight shank
[04:58:50] <zeeshan> how much tool stickout you need to have
[04:58:51] <zeeshan> etc
[04:59:18] <toastydeath> zeeshan, the tool is usually the weak link in the kinematic chain
[04:59:28] <zeeshan> lies
[04:59:32] <zeeshan> im kidding
[04:59:34] <zeeshan> i believe you
[04:59:38] <zeeshan> its just when youre machining thin wall parts
[04:59:44] <zeeshan> the tables turn :p
[04:59:53] <zeeshan> your thin wall part is the floppy noodle
[04:59:59] <toastydeath> and all else equal, an indexible endmill is gonna be more rigid
[05:00:08] <zeeshan> that's good to know
[05:00:08] <toastydeath> sure, but you don't machine thin wall parts like you'd machine other parts
[05:00:12] <zeeshan> i haven't even used them on t he bridgeport
[05:00:16] <zeeshan> cause it kept shattering inserts
[05:00:19] <zeeshan> cause its a loose pos
[05:00:26] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0hrO_EIUAEN4IU.jpg:large
[05:00:28] <toastydeath> they make roughing grades of carbide
[05:00:36] <ssi> I got four short ER chucks, two 4", and one 6"
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[05:00:39] <ssi> plus the 1/2" chuck
[05:00:43] <toastydeath> you have to get the right kind of carbide for the task - something good at shock, but low heat tolerance
[05:00:43] <ssi> and collets
[05:00:44] <zeeshan> ssi nice :D
[05:00:49] <zeeshan> whats that lpng one
[05:00:50] <zeeshan> *long
[05:00:55] <ssi> 6" ER32
[05:01:08] <zeeshan> toastydeath: yea so many grades
[05:01:12] <zeeshan> i usually refer to charges
[05:01:15] <zeeshan> *charts
[05:01:27] <zeeshan> i still use general grade for aluminum
[05:01:32] <zeeshan> but i've seen what uncoated
[05:01:40] <zeeshan> positve inserts do to aluminum on production machines
[05:01:43] <zeeshan> it annhilates it
[05:01:49] <toastydeath> ya
[05:02:03] <toastydeath> polished, high rake inserts on alum have no effective sfm limit
[05:02:12] <ssi> yeah I've run some of those inserts on the lathe
[05:02:14] <zeeshan> you read the comment earlier right?
[05:02:15] <ssi> holy balls they move metal
[05:02:20] <zeeshan> the research machine shop guys
[05:02:23] <XXCoder> 100M sfm
[05:02:27] <zeeshan> have cut through aluminum
[05:02:34] <zeeshan> at 286,089.239 inches per minute
[05:02:55] <zeeshan> the process is highly guarded
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[05:03:16] <toastydeath> here's an endmill from back at my old shop
[05:03:22] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/DSC_4255.jpg
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[05:03:35] <zeeshan> that looks.............
[05:03:37] <zeeshan> expensive
[05:03:41] <ssi> yessss
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[05:03:51] <toastydeath> CAT-50 roughing endmill
[05:03:56] <XXCoder> zeeshan: worker has to work on part with 4 guards around him or her. it's THAT guarded. ;)
[05:04:03] <XXCoder> damn thats big
[05:04:05] <zeeshan> XXCoder: lol
[05:04:06] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/DSC_4260.jpg
[05:04:20] <zeeshan> i count 10 flutes
[05:04:25] <zeeshan> i can just imagine the speeds that thing runs at
[05:04:33] <toastydeath> ...not very fast
[05:04:36] <zeeshan> really?
[05:04:40] <toastydeath> it's hss
[05:04:42] <zeeshan> oh
[05:04:43] <toastydeath> and giant
[05:04:50] <zeeshan> looks like a 2" cutter
[05:04:50] <toastydeath> you run roughing endmills as slow as possible
[05:05:07] <zeeshan> lol @ your maple 11
[05:05:08] <zeeshan> cd
[05:05:11] <zeeshan> :D
[05:05:14] <XXCoder> toasty I wish it was at my work. its damn scary for roughing for some parts
[05:05:19] <XXCoder> machine vibrates so hard
[05:05:46] <zeeshan> damnit
[05:05:53] <toastydeath> I love the sound of roughing
[05:05:54] <zeeshan> toastydeath's photobucket is password protected
[05:05:57] <zeeshan> access denied
[05:06:00] <toastydeath> DENIED
[05:06:04] <toastydeath> it's from like 7 years ago or some shit
[05:06:16] <toastydeath> i don't use it, i just remembered that i uploaded pix of that
[05:06:20] <ssi> toastydeath: when I start actually running this thing I'm probably going to want to pick your brain a lot :)
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[05:06:30] <zeeshan> fak you ssi
[05:06:31] <toastydeath> no probs
[05:06:32] <zeeshan> i know machining
[05:06:33] <zeeshan> die
[05:06:37] <zeeshan> no respect for z
[05:06:38] <zeeshan> :[
[05:06:41] <ssi> zeeshan: you know formulas
[05:06:43] <ssi> toasty knows machining :)
[05:06:51] <zeeshan> ive manual machined a lot!
[05:07:04] <XXCoder> toasty is that GIANT rough em attached to that cone thingy or is it made together? I dont think it would be connected by some 3/4 in shaft or something
[05:07:14] <ssi> looks like one piece to me
[05:07:19] <toastydeath> XXCoder, endmills that big have the taper ground into the endmill itself
[05:07:28] <toastydeath> it is one piece
[05:07:28] <XXCoder> makes sense I suppose
[05:07:31] <XXCoder> easier.
[05:07:35] <XXCoder> and stronger too
[05:08:07] <toastydeath> endmills like that are for aerospace shit
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[05:08:30] <ssi> I love aerospace shit :P
[05:08:38] <XXCoder> oh I guessed his password
[05:08:42] <XXCoder> its cncsucks
[05:08:50] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[05:08:57] <zeeshan> LOL
[05:09:00] <zeeshan> seriously?
[05:09:03] <toastydeath> hunter9
[05:09:38] <XXCoder> heh
[05:10:11] <toastydeath> oh damn i have pictures of a fucking insane friend i used to have here
[05:10:17] <toastydeath> she was batshit insane and i guess still is
[05:10:22] <toastydeath> this is a trip down memory lane
[05:10:55] <ssi> my favorite kind
[05:10:56] <XXCoder> old arcives do that
[05:11:18] <XXCoder> I have pictures at one site thats probably teenager now :P
[05:11:29] <XXCoder> 14 years or so
[05:11:36] <XXCoder> some even earlier at 1998 or so
[05:11:37] <toastydeath> back before she fucked her hair up and tries to look like she's as old as possible
[05:11:46] <toastydeath> so she looks like she's mid-40s now
[05:11:52] <toastydeath> and dresses like a grandmother
[05:12:01] <toastydeath> http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/kate-wet.jpg
[05:12:05] <XXCoder> wild guess, bad break and want to stop dating
[05:12:14] <toastydeath> nope, never dated
[05:12:15] <zeeshan> haha
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[05:12:31] <XXCoder> with someone else. never said was you :)
[05:12:36] <toastydeath> oh, no
[05:12:45] <toastydeath> she has a continual string of the worst possible people she could find to date
[05:12:57] <toastydeath> her first boyfriend was over the top emotionally and physically abusive
[05:13:02] <toastydeath> second boyfriend was a pedophile and into scat
[05:13:23] <toastydeath> third boyfriend was an indian guy who worked at a gas station who didn't actually speak english, like, could not understand what she said and she could not understand him
[05:13:26] <roycroft> eew and eew
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[05:13:46] <zeeshan> ssi
[05:13:52] <ssi> wat
[05:13:52] <zeeshan> i found this massive tool haul
[05:13:53] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/621C9BAB-05D8-401D-8F83-65A9321A48A0_zpsqciqb13o.jpg
[05:13:54] <XXCoder> crazy.
[05:13:58] <toastydeath> fourth boyfriend was a basement-dweller who had a giantess fetish and was also abusive (she's like 5'1"
[05:14:00] <zeeshan> notice one of the face mills
[05:14:02] <zeeshan> round inserts
[05:14:08] <zeeshan> uses a lot of power to machine with it
[05:14:17] <zeeshan> but at least you can turn the inserts slightly a bit
[05:14:21] <zeeshan> given they didnt explodfe
[05:14:27] <ssi> I have a cnmg facemill
[05:14:30] <ssi> I think it's five inserts
[05:14:31] <toastydeath> those actually leave a nice surface finish
[05:14:35] <ssi> and you can use four or even eight sides on them
[05:14:47] <zeeshan> on cnmg usually you use 4 sides
[05:14:50] <zeeshan> the other 4 dont really get used
[05:14:54] <zeeshan> unless you have a fancy cutter
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[05:15:26] <zeeshan> toastydeath: unfurtonately again
[05:15:27] <zeeshan> the bridgeport
[05:15:29] <zeeshan> could not handle it
[05:15:32] <XXCoder> well time to make and collect Zs. night all
[05:15:34] <toastydeath> oh, lord no.
[05:15:39] <toastydeath> do not use that on a bridgeport
[05:15:51] <XXCoder> do use that bigass mill though LOL
[05:15:55] <ssi> sigh
[05:16:03] <ssi> I have no idea why my verilog isn't working
[05:16:07] <ssi> but it's making me extremely sad
[05:16:12] <zeeshan> what is a verilog
[05:16:17] <zeeshan> some power supply?
[05:16:24] <ssi> hdl
[05:16:28] <zeeshan> oh
[05:17:26] <ssi> I guess that means it's bedtime
[05:17:38] <ssi> murdered my hardware for the night and made little progress in verilog
[05:18:06] <zeeshan> tomorrow will be a better day!
[05:18:10] <ssi> DOUBT IT
[05:18:29] <ssi> what do you suppose I'll blow up tomorrow?
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[05:18:36] <zeeshan> nothing
[05:18:49] <ssi> don't be such a pessimist
[05:20:34] <ssi> oh well, I have some contract work to do this week
[05:20:38] <ssi> I guess the mill can wait a few days
[05:24:28] <zeeshan> haha
[05:24:31] <zeeshan> im going through my old pics
[05:24:33] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/garage.png
[05:24:34] <zeeshan> LOL
[05:24:37] <zeeshan> yea..
[05:24:50] <zeeshan> garage looks nothing like that anymore
[05:24:51] <zeeshan> haha
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[05:47:30] <ssi> hm I had a wacky idea
[05:48:12] <ssi> I was talking earlier about making the next revision of my converter board have some ADs on it and RS422, and I could make it a smart serial host for current and velocity reporting
[05:48:18] <ssi> well what if I went even further
[05:48:55] <ssi> and made it its own encoder counter and analog driver, and basically gave it all the hardware it needs to be the servo interface portion of a 7i77 for one servo
[05:49:30] <ssi> so it'd be a piggyback board that mounts to the bottom of the drive, has a connector to interface with the drive, and then a single cat5 cable back to a 7i74
[05:50:39] <ssi> system would be something like 5i25->7i74, then sserial to N of my boards, and sserial to a 7i84
[05:51:03] <ssi> would greatly simplify wiring
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[06:48:03] <Deejay> moin
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[07:01:26] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:58:01] <__rob> hello
[10:58:29] <__rob> has anyone got any recomendations on a resonable priced driver board and stepper drivers from ebay
[10:58:57] <__rob> was looking at an "all in one" job like this
[10:58:58] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Axis-CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-Controller-TB6560-/351197111339?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item51c4faa42b
[10:59:18] <__rob> or separate controller and drivers like this..
[10:59:19] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Kit-4-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-4-TB6600HG-Stepper-Driver-Controller-5A-/191347028643?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2c8d2bf2a3
[11:00:46] <__rob> not tried either so I dont know the pros and cons
[11:01:29] <archivist> I use parts from arc euro trade in leicester
[11:01:30] <Hawku> do not use TB6560
[11:01:32] jthornton_ is now known as jthornton
[11:01:57] <__rob> what would you suggest as an alternative
[11:02:00] <jthornton> is this for a toy or a router or a real machine?
[11:02:12] <__rob> well, for converting a £1000 proxxon one
[11:02:20] <__rob> and a £900 proxxon lathe
[11:02:39] <jthornton> are they CNC now or manual?
[11:02:45] <__rob> manual
[11:02:52] <__rob> I've made the nema23 mountings though
[11:03:08] <jthornton> converted to ball screws?
[11:03:08] <__rob> and got some alright nema23 motors
[11:03:23] <__rob> the motor is just driving the lead screw directly
[11:03:33] <__rob> with a coupler
[11:04:12] <jthornton> have you done the torque and speed calculations on your setup?
[11:04:23] <__rob> no
[11:05:06] <__rob> but as far as torqe, these motors should be absolutely fine
[11:05:10] <__rob> its a micro mill
[11:05:14] <__rob> effectively
[11:05:23] <Hawku> mf70?
[11:05:27] <__rob> 230
[11:05:34] <jthornton> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mechanical_Spreadsheet
[11:05:58] <__rob> http://www.axminster.co.uk/proxxon-ff-230-micro-mill
[11:06:37] <jthornton> that is tiny
[11:06:52] <__rob> yea
[11:06:59] <__rob> perhaps the nema 23's are too big
[11:07:15] <archivist> too small for me for my small stuff
[11:07:23] <jthornton> I think cncbasher is fond of the leadshine drives
[11:07:41] <__rob> so whats wrong with the TB6560 ?
[11:07:45] <archivist> I use leadshine but not the copies
[11:07:49] <__rob> this mill is 1mm per revolution
[11:08:01] <__rob> for the x/y
[11:08:21] <jthornton> well they burn up easy IIRC
[11:08:52] <__rob> ok
[11:08:52] <Hawku> __rob: 200 or 400 steps per revolution steppers?
[11:08:55] <__rob> 200
[11:09:06] <jthornton> do you have a computer picked out and have done the latency test on it?
[11:09:15] <__rob> I have some rackmount intel atoms
[11:09:21] <__rob> that will purely run this
[11:09:23] <Hawku> hmm
[11:09:38] <Hawku> 1/8 microstepping that would be 1600 steps per mm
[11:09:51] <__rob> yea, that sounds pretty good, no ?
[11:10:03] <Hawku> TB6560 datasheet says 30µs clock speed
[11:11:01] <archivist> 1/4 for more speed
[11:11:15] <__rob> so really, this whole project is a means to an end
[11:11:25] <__rob> I just want to be able to make some parts for the actual project
[11:11:28] <__rob> :)
[11:11:35] <__rob> so as long as its 'good enough' - i'm happy
[11:11:54] <__rob> its seems that with such small x/y travel, error will be reduced
[11:11:55] <Hawku> just skip the TB6560
[11:11:58] <__rob> right
[11:12:16] <__rob> seems to be the choice of board on ebay
[11:12:21] <archivist> small travel often means hard to use
[11:12:30] <__rob> how so ?
[11:12:36] <__rob> just because you cant get the speeD ?
[11:12:47] <jthornton> so the parts you have to make are 3-D or 2-D?
[11:12:51] <archivist> you cannot reach all round a job
[11:12:57] <__rob> bit of both
[11:13:05] <__rob> mostly 2d
[11:13:24] <__rob> I'm happy to have to move the part
[11:13:36] <__rob> main issue is not being able to cut curves by hand
[11:14:51] <__rob> TB6600HG any better?
[11:14:55] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIY-CNC-Kit-4-Axis-New-Breakout-Board-Kit-4-TB6600HG-Stepper-Driver-Controller-/351184405254?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item51c438c306
[11:14:58] <__rob> something like this
[11:16:12] <__rob> the alternative is buy one of the knock off smooth step jobs
[11:16:13] <archivist> those look like chines copy of the leadshine drives,
[11:16:19] <__rob> again, no idea how good they are
[11:16:21] <Hawku> TB6600 datasheet says 2.2µs clock pulse
[11:16:45] <Hawku> so, that is much better than TB6560, but i don't know about anything else
[11:17:08] <__rob> Hawku : even at 30us thats 33khz ?
[11:17:10] <__rob> thats ok no ?
[11:17:35] <__rob> or too slow ?
[11:18:29] <__rob> £70 all in
[11:18:36] <__rob> for that TB6600
[11:19:45] <__rob> deal or no deal ?
[11:20:03] <Hawku> 30
[11:20:17] <Hawku> 30µs is about 15khz
[11:20:46] <Hawku> i think that 30µs is minimum pulse length
[11:20:47] <__rob> ohh so the 30 was the duty cycle
[11:20:53] <Hawku> yeah
[11:20:53] <__rob> rather then the period
[11:20:56] <__rob> ok
[11:21:11] <__rob> so thats far too slow is what your saying?
[11:21:14] <archivist> adjustable anyway
[11:21:49] <jthornton> I don't think speed is going to be an issue on your tiny machines with leadscrews
[11:21:59] <Hawku> if the 15khz is the absolute maximum, i wouldn't try to drive that with 15khz step speed
[11:22:04] <__rob> yea
[11:22:08] <archivist> pulse width is hardly a worry just adjust
[11:22:21] <__rob> well ther TB6600 as you say is 200khz
[11:22:26] <__rob> max for fCLK
[11:22:31] <Hawku> yes
[11:22:42] <__rob> ok, so that actually looks ok
[11:22:48] <__rob> the above url
[11:23:06] <__rob> assuming the actual drivers are decent enough
[11:24:05] <jthornton> at least they warn you now about "Please SHUT DOWN the power before you plug or unplug the connectors to avoid burning up the board."
[11:27:07] <__rob> so what chips are they actually using on the control board ?
[11:27:28] <__rob> is that pretty much just a parallel interface that routes the signals ?
[11:27:49] <jthornton> so for 77 pounds you just need a power supply to complete the drive part
[11:28:02] <jthornton> you need a parallel port
[11:28:11] <__rob> these intel atoms have that
[11:28:58] <jthornton> just need a 36v power supply to go with that
[11:29:27] <__rob> ok, great
[11:29:36] <__rob> thanks for the adivce guys :)
[11:30:51] <archivist> that manual control addon is in between , not the way linuxcnc works
[11:31:20] <__rob> I'm not getting the addon
[11:31:47] <__rob> without that, I can just use it straight from linux cnc ?
[11:31:53] <__rob> via the parallel port
[11:31:59] <archivist> looks like it
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[11:36:20] <jthornton> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600W-36V16-7A-Power-Supply-PSU-For-CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-TB6600-M542-M542H-/361083942536?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item541247b688
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[12:07:35] <__rob> http://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=81&product_id=278
[12:07:38] <__rob> was gonna go with this
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[12:09:16] <jthornton> looks more cost effective to me
[12:09:40] <__rob> not very adjustable though
[12:09:52] <__rob> Dont know how low/high I would want to go though for nema23 motors
[12:10:40] <jthornton> you want the highest voltage your drive takes, voltage is power in stepper world
[12:10:55] <jthornton> my nema 23's run at 63v
[12:11:14] <__rob> do your motors get pretty hot ?
[12:12:04] <jthornton> all steppers run hot
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[12:17:03] <__rob> one other question actually was the best way to attach to the lead screw
[12:17:17] <__rob> I was just going to use a helical coupler
[12:17:50] <jthornton> a 2-1 belt reduction is the best way
[12:17:58] <jthornton> but the coupler might work
[12:19:18] <__rob> http://www.cnc4you.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=33_61&product_id=307
[12:19:20] <__rob> these things
[12:20:05] <archivist> they have to be dean inline, oldham style do not
[12:20:10] <archivist> read
[12:20:13] <archivist> dead
[12:20:45] <archivist> trying to type past a microscope on the table
[12:20:56] <jdh> they have a category called lovejoy/oldham but they are just lovejoy style
[12:20:56] <__rob> so your saying these aren;t suitable ?
[12:21:10] <jdh> they are ok for low load and will handle a little misalignment
[12:21:39] <archivist> so little that they break after a time
[12:21:40] <__rob> they dont have them in the sized I nee daswell
[12:21:51] <__rob> m8 to 6.35mm
[12:22:17] <archivist> with oldham style you can buy the ends you need
[12:22:24] <__rob> for the Flexible ones, they do say Designed to connect shafts with small misallignment problems or reduce vibration transmission
[12:22:42] <jdh> you probably won't find an m8 one.
[12:23:31] <jdh> get a small one and make it bigger.
[12:23:31] <__rob> ok, well i've milled the mountings from some alluminium section
[12:23:40] <__rob> looks pretty aligned
[12:24:01] <__rob> this is a tiny mill really
[12:24:07] <jdh> how tiny is it
[12:24:49] <archivist> you can get 8-6mm couplers, look on fleabay
[12:25:03] <__rob> 6mm is too small though
[12:25:08] <__rob> its 6.35 on these motors
[12:25:36] <archivist> you can get any to any if you just buy the ends
[12:26:02] <archivist> arc euro supply in parts
[12:26:43] <__rob> ohh right, I just buy both ends
[12:27:04] <__rob> and the plastic bit for the middle
[12:27:05] <__rob> presumably
[12:27:05] <archivist> http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Oldham-Couplings
[12:27:18] <__rob> yup, on that page already
[12:28:05] <__rob> no 8's :/
[12:28:22] <archivist> moan at him :)
[12:29:01] <archivist> I use a larger size and sleeve down
[12:29:33] <archivist> or smaller and bore
[12:30:06] <__rob> how does it actually hold together along the axis
[12:30:21] <__rob> the plastic just sits between but it clamps down on that aswell ?
[12:31:13] <archivist> it cannot fall out
[12:31:42] <__rob> on the urls you pasted, along L is what I mean
[12:31:54] <__rob> that can pull apart surely
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[12:32:24] <archivist> your mount will stop that
[12:33:14] <Hawku> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-x-6-35-mm-CNC-Flexible-Plum-Coupling-Shaft-Stepper-Motor-D20mm-L30mm-/261620090678?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ce9c5c736&vxp=mtr
[12:33:22] <jdh> you are going to mount a coupler on the M8 threads? There isn't a turned down section?
[12:33:38] <__rob> its just m8 thread
[12:33:57] <__rob> Does not ship to United Kingdom
[12:34:00] <__rob> Hawku
[12:34:11] <__rob> also, i've waited a month for stuff from china before :/
[12:34:40] <archivist> m8 is a little under, so you need a damned good grip, dont ask me how I know
[12:34:56] <__rob> yea its 7.8 on the calipers
[12:35:00] <jdh> you could get a pair of 6mm or 1/4" and bore. or bore + tap the m8
[12:35:16] <archivist> tap the m8 for best grip
[12:36:00] <__rob> what I dont get is how those hold together, you spin the lead screw, the table doesn't want to move but something has to due to the rotation of the lead screw
[12:36:14] <__rob> surely its easier for the lead screw itself to move rather then the table
[12:36:22] <__rob> and pull apart your coupler
[12:36:41] <jdh> the lead screw is captured, the motor is stationary. what can move?
[12:37:09] <__rob> well in this mill I can spin the lead screw without the table moving
[12:37:09] <archivist> the leadscrew should have its own bearings and support for that direction
[12:37:28] <__rob> and the leadscrew just travels through
[12:37:32] <archivist> you removed something you need!
[12:37:42] <jdh> you are missing the leadscrew bearing mounts
[12:37:49] <archivist> put the end plate back
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[12:38:17] <__rob> ok
[12:38:28] <__rob> yea, I've maybe gone to far with something
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[12:39:02] <archivist> the encoder here couples onto the thread
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_17_Barber_Colman_cnc/IMG_1830.JPG
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[12:40:48] <__rob> hah, awsome
[12:41:07] <__rob> infact an encoder mount is the first thing I wanted to make for this
[12:41:32] <__rob> with this*
[12:42:17] <__rob> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/x1-SRJ-JM30C-Coupling-Jaw-Clamp-Various-Sizes-CNC-BF2-SRJ30-/310708427942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item4857aa5ca6
[12:42:24] <__rob> so thats UK
[12:42:41] <__rob> they offer 7.5 mm
[12:42:45] <__rob> perhaps that would be better
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[12:45:50] <__rob> or do you think the 8mm ?
[12:52:32] <archivist> depends on your clamping surface, an 8mm will struggle to clamp 7.8
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[12:55:32] <__rob> right, well I'll get a 7.8 bit
[12:55:36] <__rob> and bore a 6mm to size then
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[12:58:49] <archivist> or tapping drill size, then tap 8mm will grip on flanks too then
[12:59:57] <__rob> yea, thats nice
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[13:00:29] <jdh> or turn the end of the screw down to 6mm
[13:01:16] <archivist> becomes a non reversable mod then
[13:01:40] <__rob> I'm also planning to put the existing hand wheels on the other side of the stepper
[13:01:42] <__rob> anyway
[13:01:46] <__rob> so it can still be used by hand when off
[13:01:59] <jdh> how do the handwheels mount now? m8?
[13:02:18] <__rob> yea, then a nut on the end
[13:04:54] <archivist> are the wheels threaded so they become the backlash adjusters
[13:05:51] <__rob> yea
[13:05:54] <__rob> they are
[13:06:33] <archivist> that is another reason to thread your couplers so thay can perform a similar function
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[13:18:57] <PetefromTn_> Good morning
[13:19:15] <jdh> how is .tn.us this fine morning?
[13:19:16] <PetefromTn_> I think I may have just bought my first CNC lathe for retrofit
[13:19:31] <PetefromTn_> oh pretty good I guess.
[13:19:33] <jdh> jpegs?
[13:19:36] <PetefromTn_> starting to get chilly
[13:19:45] <PetefromTn_> well it is not actually here just yet
[13:19:49] <jdh> guess where I'm going friday
[13:19:50] <PetefromTn_> going to get it this weekend
[13:19:57] <PetefromTn_> FLORIDA...bastard?
[13:20:01] <jdh> good guess
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[13:20:32] <jdh> what lathe?
[13:20:36] <PetefromTn_> well since I am now going to have to learn LinuxCNC lathe to be able to run it
[13:20:43] <PetefromTn_> I have been doing some research about it
[13:20:52] <PetefromTn_> and I happened across this video on youtube last night
[13:20:58] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOJhT69WEc
[13:21:13] <PetefromTn_> It has some rather impressive conversational control setup
[13:21:21] <PetefromTn_> anyone here ever seen anything like that before?
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[13:24:13] <JT-Shop> yea, he posts on the LinuxCNC forum
[13:24:35] <PetefromTn_> has anyone tried that plugin or whatever it is, he called it a theme..
[13:24:51] <JT-Shop> I use ngcgui
[13:25:09] <JT-Shop> no fancy graphics just works
[13:26:42] <PetefromTn_> hm not familiar with that either. which do you think is better?
[13:28:30] <JT-Shop> well I can't honestly answer that question... I use ngcgui and not the other
[13:28:54] <PetefromTn_> can you create radiuses and long arcs with it?
[13:29:00] <PetefromTn_> tapers etc?
[13:29:18] <JT-Shop> you can create anything G code will do with ngcgui and fill in the blanks
[13:29:30] <PetefromTn_> nice
[13:29:32] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[13:29:39] <PetefromTn_> what kind of lathe do you have again?
[13:29:52] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml
[13:30:47] <PetefromTn_> thats right I remember now.
[13:30:50] <PetefromTn_> nice machine
[13:32:54] <JT-Shop> thanks
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[13:34:43] <archivist> I just use axis and an editor for the gcode on the lathe
[13:35:33] <PetefromTn_> I will most likely just use CAM for the programming but it was nice to see there is a considerably well laid out conversational setup on there if you want to use it.
[13:36:16] <PetefromTn_> Well back to work...
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[13:44:50] <JT-Shop> I do 90% of the ops on the lathe with ngcgui faster than I can draw it in CAD
[13:45:06] -!- jduhls has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[13:54:11] <JT-Shop> the nice thing is you can concatenate the ops into a single file in the order you want
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[14:13:36] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_ when you come back
http://ibin.co/1ecEHX3uknzA
[14:15:33] <archivist> !later PetefromTn_
http://ibin.co/1ecEHX3uknzA
[14:15:34] <the_wench> will tell PetefromTn_ when he/she joins next
[14:17:25] <JT-Shop> thanks
[14:22:32] tronwzrd is now known as tronwizard
[14:25:26] * JT-Shop thinks the third time might be the charm to getting this fixture right
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[14:55:53] <dirty_d> what if i dont have home switches? how do i manually jog and zero?
[14:56:09] <dirty_d> it seems like everything is disabled until i click home
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[14:56:27] <dirty_d> this is in the simulator version though, so im not sure if thats the only reason why
[14:57:02] <_methods> yeah home it wherever you want
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[14:57:16] <_methods> move to your home location and zero it out
[14:57:29] <_methods> you could plug it in with g10 also
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[14:59:28] <CaptHindsight> dirty_d: you probably want to leave the homing configs alone for the SIM but when you get your hardware
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
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[14:59:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html
[14:59:55] <dirty_d> ok, thanks
[14:59:58] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch
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[15:00:27] <CaptHindsight> you get to decide how you want to home
[15:01:12] <dirty_d> ok
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[15:04:39] <zeeshan> if you need help with sietting it up
[15:04:40] <zeeshan> let us know
[15:04:50] <zeeshan> the help file is a little confusing at first :P
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[15:23:00] <dirty_d> hmm, i set the settings at 3.12. Immediate Homing
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[15:23:27] <dirty_d> but when i click home, it moves to the bottom left of the "L"
[15:23:50] <dirty_d> it sais its supposed to home at the current position
[15:24:25] <dirty_d> im editing config/sim/axis/axis.ini
[15:24:32] <dirty_d> and selecting axis when linuxcnc starts up
[15:24:37] <dirty_d> so i assume im editing the correct file
[15:25:42] <jthornton> never assume!
[15:26:06] <zeeshan> anyone here use federal pioner panels
[15:26:07] <zeeshan> before?
[15:27:20] <zeeshan> yea it's the ini file you modify
[15:29:05] <dirty_d> is there any way to make it so i dont have to home?
[15:29:11] <dirty_d> my machine doesnt have a home
[15:29:22] <zeeshan> you should be able to click home yourself..
[15:29:25] <dirty_d> i used to use mach3, and i would just zero the axes
[15:30:17] <dirty_d> the home all button is greyed out, but i can still click home all from the machine menu
[15:31:00] <zeeshan> sounds like it's setup in the .ini file to home using switches
[15:31:02] <zeeshan> not home manually :P
[15:31:44] <dirty_d> i set SEARCH_VEL = 0, LATCH_VEL = 0, USE_INDEX = NO, HOME_SEQUENCE = 0
[15:31:52] <dirty_d> like it says on
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[15:31:52] <jthornton> if your playing with the Axis sim it will home all unless you messed with the ini file
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[15:32:03] <dirty_d> i am editing axis.ini
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[15:32:19] <zeeshan> jthornton: i was looking at some of your mig welds
[15:32:28] <zeeshan> like for your furnace rising weldment
[15:32:35] <zeeshan> what kind of mig welder are you using?
[15:32:36] <jthornton> config/sim/axis/axis.ini is a simulator to play with
[15:32:40] <zeeshan> and are you using argon/co2 mix?
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[15:32:54] <dirty_d> jthornton, yea
[15:32:58] <jthornton> Miller, mixed on one co2 on the other one
[15:33:41] <jthornton> dirty_d, so you should not have to mess with the ini file in a sim just press home all then load a practice program to play with
[15:33:46] <dirty_d> are those typos? it says set SEARCH_VEL to 0, but in the ini file its HOME_SEARCH_VEL
[15:33:50] <dirty_d> is there another section for that?
[15:34:19] <dirty_d> jthornton, i know but when i write the ini file for my machine, how am i going to get homing to work if i cant get it to work on the sim?
[15:34:39] <jthornton> homing works on the sim
[15:34:51] <dirty_d> but i want to make the sim not have homing like my machine
[15:35:00] <jthornton> start a new config using stepconf or pncconf
[15:35:15] <dirty_d> so i know how the setup works and i dont crash my machien the first time i set it up, lol
[15:35:34] <dirty_d> ok
[15:35:43] <jthornton> the sim has lots of magic in it to make it work... start with a blank stepconf configuration
[15:35:57] <jthornton> bbl
[15:36:47] <dirty_d> ahh, ok
[15:36:53] <zeeshan> jthornton: miller what model? :D
[15:36:54] <pcw_home> You should expect crashes and have a working estop system bwfore you move anything
[15:38:21] <ssi> pcw_home: so I had my nightly hardware murdering session last night
[15:38:41] <ssi> pcw_home: what's likely dead on a 7i77 if 5v got very briefly overvolted, and now CR6 in extremely dim and CR7 is unlit
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[15:55:13] <dirty_d> what if i want to just manually enter gcode?
[15:55:29] <dirty_d> it seems to be greyed out until i run the currently loaded program
[15:55:38] <dirty_d> and i dont see any way to close the currently loaded program
[15:56:55] <_methods> you should be able to go to mdi and input gcode
[15:57:33] <dirty_d> the box is greyed out until i run the currently loaded program
[15:57:46] <dirty_d> axis.ngc
[15:57:51] <_methods> your mdi box?
[15:57:53] <dirty_d> yup
[15:57:57] <_methods> hmmm
[15:58:03] <ssi> is the machine enabled and homed?
[15:58:08] <dirty_d> yes
[15:58:37] <dirty_d> if i run the program, then stop, i can enter gcode in the MDI box
[15:59:58] <_methods> yeah i have no idea what's goin on there
[16:00:09] <_methods> sounds like it thinks it's not enabled or something
[16:01:13] <dirty_d> hmm
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[16:03:15] <dirty_d> it seems like zeroing doesnt do anything either
[16:05:08] <dirty_d> the coordinates at the top of the display with the +o circle thing are machien coordinates?
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[16:07:25] <dirty_d> if i manually jog off somewhere random, then go in the menu and try to zero, either g54, or g92, then run g01 x0 y0 z0, it always goes back to the bottom left of the "L"
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[16:07:42] <dirty_d> it should stay where it is no?
[16:09:49] <pcw_home> ssi: 5V powers the encoder input circuit, the +-16V power, the isolator for the field I/o
[16:10:32] <ssi> I think it's something in the +-16V that I killed
[16:10:35] <ssi> but I'm not sure what exactly
[16:10:48] <ssi> I haven't tried any of the field io, but the analog outs for the servos aren't working
[16:11:03] <ssi> and CR6/CR7 are out
[16:15:20] <pcw_home> Probably killed the gate driver (74ACT04?) and maybe MOSFETs (and could have killed the OP AMPS)
[16:15:51] <ssi> super
[16:16:13] <ssi> this one I probably ought to just mail back
[16:16:14] <pcw_home> more than about 7V will probably kill the gate driver
[16:16:45] <ssi> mechanically I have no problem repairing it, but without a schematic or a clear idea of what's dead it'll probably be an annoying cat and mouse game
[16:16:49] <pcw_home> if its hot(at 5V), you might try replacing it first
[16:16:54] <ssi> ok
[16:17:04] <pcw_home> Or you can return it and we can take a look
[16:17:19] <ssi> what's the refdes for the gate driver?
[16:17:53] <ssi> is it U32, the big dpak guy?
[16:17:57] <ssi> he seemed a bit warm
[16:18:16] <zeeshan> 11 m @ bx
[16:18:32] <ssi> o you said 74ACT04
[16:18:35] <pcw_home> gate driver is just a 74ACT04
[16:18:36] <ssi> lemme find a loupe
[16:18:36] <ssi> heh
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[16:19:18] <pcw_home> drives a P and N SOT23 MOSFET pair that run the +-16V charge pump
[16:22:09] <ssi> heh my eyes are so bad
[16:22:13] <ssi> busted out the microscope
[16:22:19] <ssi> looks like U33 is a 74ACT04
[16:23:45] <ssi> then there's a bank of 9 sot23 devices
[16:25:52] <ssi> the gate driver definitely gets warm under power
[16:25:55] <ssi> not necessarily hot
[16:26:10] <ssi> I should have gotten one of those flir cameras for iphone :P
[16:28:38] <dirty_d> damn, i shoulda bought this, it would work fine right?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135322
[16:31:09] <zeeshan> damn
[16:31:12] <zeeshan> 28 bux for a mobo and cpu
[16:31:14] <zeeshan> thats dirt cheap
[16:31:30] <zeeshan> who needs raspberry pi
[16:31:38] <zeeshan> and bb when you got this
[16:31:59] <ssi> well to be fair, that's still more expensive than either a bb or rpi once you add ram
[16:32:01] <dirty_d> well you need a psu and hdd too
[16:32:22] <CaptHindsight> old VIA VX900, the the x86 co that was always late and overpriced
[16:32:22] <zeeshan> run it off a usb stick
[16:32:27] <zeeshan> :D
[16:32:51] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have a via c3 itx board that's been running my little lathe for a long time with no issues
[16:33:08] <ssi> and it's an OOOOOOLD machine
[16:33:38] <dirty_d> i have a feeling im going to end up with a monitor with a microitx mobo and power supply duct taped to the back of it
[16:33:40] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813455001 $45 imx6 board
[16:34:11] <ssi> dirty_d: I got a 90w picopsu for my atom itx board for the build I'm working on now and it seems to work well
[16:34:15] <dirty_d> and while im at it, ill splice two power cords togther
[16:34:27] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I used to work with VIA. They were/are a money pit.
[16:34:35] <ssi> CaptHindsight: oh I don't doubt it
[16:35:42] <dirty_d> there are so many of these single board computers now
[16:35:43] <ssi> I wish cadsoft would hurry up and send me my new license
[16:36:09] <CaptHindsight> if that ^^ imx6 board really has the PCIe signals routed to the mini-PCIe connector it could work with the 6i25
[16:36:40] <ssi> has anyone made third party smartserial devices?
[16:37:02] <CaptHindsight> ah that version board does not :(
[16:37:19] <dirty_d> does linuxcnc work on it?
[16:37:28] <CaptHindsight> PCIe is only on the HummingBoard-i2eX
[16:38:05] <CaptHindsight> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813455003 $99 :(
[16:40:59] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I could have sent you a few C3 boards to use
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[16:41:17] <ssi> yeah I actually had five and I think the other four got thrown out :)
[16:41:23] <CaptHindsight> heh
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[16:42:25] <CaptHindsight> they work much better with coreboot, the factory BIOS on many were temperamental
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[16:42:57] <CaptHindsight> well 10 years ago anyway
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[16:53:53] <ssi> pcw_home: haha I found a place to scavenge a 74ACT04
[16:56:49] <ssi> and probably the mosfets too if necessary
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[17:00:12] <ssi> bam
[17:00:16] <ssi> CR6 and CR7 are back on
[17:00:17] <ssi> :D
[17:00:29] <zeeshan> whered you find that chip
[17:00:33] <ssi> 7i33
[17:00:35] <zeeshan> :D
[17:00:39] <ssi> hehehh
[17:00:54] <zeeshan> nice man
[17:01:11] <ssi> never wantonly destroy anything you're unwilling to fix :D
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[17:13:45] <_methods> http://hackaday.com/2014/10/22/watch-that-windows-update-ftdi-drivers-are-killing-fake-chips/
[17:15:14] <jasen> http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal
[17:17:08] <_methods> i know i've probably got some fake ones in a few of my projects
[17:18:22] <jasen> if you need real chips , buy from relayable supplyers like digikey or farnel
[17:18:38] <jasen> mouser sell fake
[17:18:49] <_methods> i buy my shit from china
[17:18:56] <_methods> if it no workie i throw it away
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[17:19:19] <_methods> i'd be happy to buy from digikey if they didn't try and shove a ups van up my ass when i did
[17:19:37] <_methods> it's cheaper to have them shipped from china than to buy from digikey
[17:22:21] <ssi> heh
[17:22:31] <ssi> digikey has been pretty ok on shipping for me
[17:22:33] <ssi> mouser is the one that sucks
[17:22:39] <ssi> mouser will sit on an order for three days
[17:22:44] <ssi> then ship it ups, which takes a week
[17:22:55] <ssi> digikey uses usps and I get it in 2 days
[17:23:05] <ssi> I just hate digikey's website
[17:23:36] <_methods> oh the shipping time is great
[17:23:38] <_methods> it's the price
[17:23:42] <jasen> I am working with farnell , 1 day only , digikey take a week
[17:23:45] <ssi> shipping price, or parts price?
[17:23:52] <_methods> shipping price
[17:23:56] <_methods> part price is fine with me
[17:24:06] <lair82> Hey guys, I started over and re-installed debian, then got things setup to use the buildbot. I figured i would run the latency test for a while to see how this MB/CPU and SSD run together, and it blew me out of the water, the max jitterfor the servo thread in ns was over 5 million. I performed the Isolcpus=1 add-on, and it helped but I am trying to switch to the vesa graphics now and hitting a roadblock
[17:24:09] <_methods> but when i order 10 little caps and i pay $16 shipping
[17:24:13] <_methods> FU
[17:24:27] <pcw_home> Digikey is great for protos/low volume
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[17:24:53] <ssi> I wish I had something like digikey that had a local warehouse, so I can willcall it the way I can mcmaster
[17:25:31] <ssi> I'd rather pay salestax and have it today than shipping and wait
[17:25:51] <ssi> pcw_home: how feasible is it to build my own smartserial devices?
[17:26:05] <ssi> I'm guessing it's just an rs422 transciever and learning the protocol
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[17:26:53] <pcw_home> you need a fast ucontroller that has a UART that will work at 2.5 MB
[17:27:12] <ssi> I imagine I'd use the same pic you use on your sserial devices
[17:27:58] <mozmck> huh, mouser is great for shipping here. order by 5PM and we get it the next day
[17:28:26] <lair82> when i try "sudo service gdm stop" it says gdm not available
[17:28:26] <_methods> yeah i get the parts right away
[17:28:27] <mozmck> as for them selling fakes, I highly doubt that.
[17:28:29] <_methods> and the bill
[17:28:53] <_methods> yeah i doubt mouser is intentionally selling fakes
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[17:29:27] <pcw_home> You can use the PIC (I'd probably use a STM32F303)
[17:29:29] <pcw_home> the 7I90 has some example code (in an obscure machin language)
[17:29:36] <mozmck> no more than digikey or farnell, or avnet.
[17:30:59] <mozmck> avnet has the best prices on some things, digikey on others, but we use mouser for most stuff. Digikey is the slowest for shipping for us, but I bet it all depends on the location of a distribution center.
[17:31:10] <ssi> pcw_home: looks fancy... I used to do a lot of PIC work, but that ARM is probably considerably nicer
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[17:31:31] <dirty_d> i have the f303 discovery board, its very nice
[17:31:45] <pcw_home> well ~$3.00 72 MHz floating point, 4x 5 MS/Sec A-Ds
[17:32:01] <ssi> yeah it'd do everything I'd want
[17:32:10] <ssi> I had a wacky thought last night
[17:32:27] <dirty_d> and for $15 you have a board with all the pins broken out with usb and all
[17:32:32] <dirty_d> nice for prototyping stuff
[17:32:33] <ssi> since I have to have a board on each drive for the commutation stuff, and I was talking about the idea of integrating the current monitoring into it
[17:33:06] <ssi> I could go whole hog and put something like that chip on there as a sserial slave, and have it also do encoder counting and DAC for servo control signals
[17:33:20] <ssi> then the machine could be something like a 7i74 fanning out to individual servo drive packages
[17:33:23] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDUxWDgwMA==/z/DFUAAOSw6EhUPEor/$_20.JPG
[17:33:25] <zeeshan> am i retarded
[17:33:28] <zeeshan> i cant see thbe lugs?
[17:33:29] <ssi> would be pretty neat, and a fun exercise in learning the sserial stuff
[17:33:37] <zeeshan> for L1 and L2
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[17:34:27] <lair82> zeeshan they are right at the top of the breakers
[17:34:39] <zeeshan> i mean for the main bus bar
[17:34:48] <zeeshan> usually its on the top
[17:34:54] <zeeshan> i see a lug right in the center..
[17:35:34] <lair82> theres two of them there with a fiber insulator between l1 and l2
[17:35:46] <zeeshan> they're in line?
[17:35:51] <zeeshan> at different heights?
[17:36:21] <jdh> z: you worked at eaton?
[17:36:32] <lair82> must be the way it looks, square d i-line panels are like that,
[17:36:46] <zeeshan> jdh yes
[17:36:50] <lair82> buss bars are on top of each other
[17:37:01] <zeeshan> lair82: so weird
[17:37:12] <zeeshan> the eaton panel boards had 2 seperate bus bars for single phase panels
[17:37:17] <jdh> my daughter had an interview for a co-op thing with an eaton
[17:37:24] <zeeshan> jdh what position?
[17:37:26] <ssi> EATON ICE CREAM
[17:37:31] <pcw_home> lair82: you had latency problems with preemt-rt?
[17:37:38] <zeeshan> i hope she gets in
[17:37:43] <zeeshan> it's a really great company to work for
[17:38:17] <zeeshan> their mission statement i think is the reason
[17:38:18] <lair82> yep, its running right now, and servo thread max jitter in ns is at 1108622
[17:38:32] <CaptHindsight> somebody needs to figure out a way to make money with a website that determines the best places to buy things from based on the buyers locations
[17:38:54] * JT-Shop should do some work but a nap sounds better
[17:39:03] <zeeshan> JT-Shop: you nap a lot
[17:39:05] <pcw_home> lair82: what does
[17:39:07] <pcw_home> uname -a
[17:39:08] <pcw_home> print?
[17:39:54] <lair82> greenmill@greenmill:~$ uname -a Linux greenmill 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT Debian 3.4.55-3linuxcnc i686 GNU/Linux
[17:40:48] <pcw_home> also for preemt-RT you typically need to disable the base thread to get reasonable latency test numbers (since the default base thread is too fast for Preemt-RT)
[17:41:18] <lair82> how do i do that?
[17:41:22] <pcw_home> like
[17:41:24] <pcw_home> latency-test 1ms 1ms
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[17:43:15] <lair82> now I've got 58858
[17:43:31] <_methods> ouch
[17:43:40] <lair82> 80815
[17:43:40] <pcw_home> thats fine
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[17:44:32] <lair82> Would the vesa graphics help this?
[17:44:39] <pcw_home> still OK for 1 KHZ, usually youtube videos cause the worst delays
[17:45:01] <pcw_home> maybe, never tried
[17:45:31] <lair82> If its ok, I'm goingto leave well enough alone
[17:45:52] <CaptHindsight> whats the string for finding all the latency-test parameters? latency-test -h --h --H -help ?
[17:47:03] <pcw_home> latency-test needs a man page
[17:48:52] <lair82> I agree, i thougtht it needed to be under like 25k-30k ns to be effective
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[17:50:12] <ssi> pcw_home: sserial fast enough for encoder data, if I put an encoder counter on a sserial daughterboard?
[17:51:22] <Connor> pcw_home: I'm not seeing the 7I92's on the store site.
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[17:53:09] <zeeshan> lair82: i use vesa gfx on my machine
[17:53:14] <zeeshan> if i used the nvidia driver
[17:53:17] <zeeshan> i had some latency issues
[17:53:18] <pcw_home> currently sserial is not really suited for encoders (because read data is always a cycle late)
[17:53:19] <pcw_home> I intend to fix this by splitting the data into RX and TX data with RX data requested before needed by DPLL timer
[17:53:21] <pcw_home> but that will be a while
[17:53:29] <ssi> I see
[17:54:42] <pcw_home> ssi simply running the servo thread at 2 KHz or more will make velocity loops OK
[17:54:49] <CaptHindsight> apparently any string turns off the base thread latency-test -(insert anything) does it for me
[17:55:00] <zeeshan> im reading my vfd's manual: "L1-Phase or L3-phase is open -> status not operate", "L2-phase is open -> inverter operates by single phase power supply. Therefore, UV or OC may occur"
[17:55:02] <zeeshan> ?!?!
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[17:55:22] <ssi> zeeshan: it means when you hook up your power, use L1 and L3
[17:55:29] <zeeshan> whats uv or oc
[17:55:35] <ssi> undervolt, overcurrent
[17:55:38] <zeeshan> oh
[17:55:43] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: is there an English translation? :)
[17:55:52] <pcw_home> Yes I think I found that by desperately trying to find the help string
[17:55:59] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: it looks like someone translated this using babelfish. japanese to english
[17:56:21] <ssi> pcw_home: I'm going to take a stab at designing a board with enough stuff onboard to run a single servo drive via sserial, but I'm going to include provisions for normal straight through wiring to the 7i77 as well so I have a contingency plan :)
[17:56:39] <ssi> I think it'd be really need to have a board strapped directly to a drive, and be able to hook the whole thing up via one cat5 cable
[17:56:47] <lair82> How do you configure it when running debian?
[17:56:47] <ssi> s/need/neat/
[17:59:14] <pcw_home> lair82: 80 usec of latency is OK unless you are running very fast or very precise machines
[17:59:16] <pcw_home> I intend to add retimed input sampling to the encoders and resolver interface when I get a chance
[17:59:17] <pcw_home> (its already there on the absolute encoders and stepgen) This will make up to a couple hundred
[17:59:19] <pcw_home> usec latency tolerable even on very fast.precise machines
[17:59:21] <CaptHindsight> latency-test 2ms or 2us works, so it might be latency-test (space) X(any integer) ms or us
[18:00:20] <CaptHindsight> and if you put two numbers after latency-test 200us 1ms you get two tests, one at 200us and the other at 1ms
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[18:01:12] <zeeshan> i cant decide
[18:01:18] <zeeshan> buy this federal pioneer panel or square d
[18:01:25] <zeeshan> federal comes with all the breakers i need
[18:01:26] <zeeshan> except
[18:01:27] <zeeshan> 1..
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[18:03:51] <CaptHindsight> latency-test (base thread integer+ms or us) (servo thread integer+ms or us)
[18:05:38] <CaptHindsight> hehe I managed to kill X by trying to test with a 2us base thread
[18:05:56] <CaptHindsight> nope kernel panic
[18:06:06] <ssi> lolol
[18:11:49] <CaptHindsight> any test under 4us results in kernel panic, but was getting 7us jitter with 4us thread
[18:13:57] <zeeshan> anyone actually test a circuit breaker
[18:14:03] <zeeshan> to see if it trips when overloaded? :P
[18:14:18] <_methods> heheh all the time........on accident
[18:14:31] <zeeshan> what do you do?
[18:14:36] <zeeshan> just short the wires? :p
[18:14:38] <archivist> lol
[18:14:40] <_methods> stupid stuff
[18:14:42] <CaptHindsight> they will trip with as little as 90% of the rated current over time
[18:14:55] <zeeshan> i wanna test the breakers im getting
[18:14:57] <zeeshan> before trusting em
[18:15:06] <zeeshan> im thinking of hooking them to a wood board
[18:15:07] <zeeshan> powering em
[18:15:10] <zeeshan> and shorting the wires
[18:15:12] <_methods> yeah i made a spot welder........
[18:15:15] <CaptHindsight> the more they trip the less accurate they become
[18:15:16] <_methods> that was fun
[18:15:32] <archivist> I have never tested breakers, they are made to a standard
[18:15:46] <zeeshan> im reading about federal pioneer breakers
[18:15:54] <zeeshan> apparently they dont trip at their rated current
[18:16:02] <zeeshan> and wires have caught on fire in the past lol
[18:16:02] <archivist> none do
[18:16:15] <archivist> there is a margin of error
[18:16:23] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: they will trip at different points based on their temperature and the ambient temp of the location they are in
[18:16:25] <zeeshan> well if you're pushing 20A through it
[18:16:32] <zeeshan> it should trip if its rated for 15A
[18:16:33] <zeeshan> almost instantly
[18:16:46] <zeeshan> depending on their curve
[18:17:31] <archivist> think AC and the RMS current they have to take more for part of the cycle
[18:18:27] <CaptHindsight> they don't have uC's inside that monitor current and temp over time with 0.1% accuracy for trip current
[18:18:33] <archivist> these days some codes rate cables for a period of short before breakers drop out
[18:18:34] <ssi> CaptHindsight: WHY NOT
[18:18:47] <ssi> HOW MANY CHILDREN HAVE TO DIE BEFORE OUR CIRCUIT BREAKERS ARE ADEQUATELY INTELLIGENT?
[18:18:52] <ssi> WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?
[18:18:52] <archivist> the have thermal delays
[18:19:04] <zeeshan> i forgot the names of the breakers
[18:19:06] <_methods> heheh
[18:19:09] <zeeshan> there earth leakage ones that monitor the ground
[18:19:11] <CaptHindsight> the number is usually 50-60 white people
[18:19:15] <ssi> zeeshan: GFCI
[18:19:19] <zeeshan> we had CTs
[18:19:24] <ssi> CaptHindsight: sounds about right
[18:19:28] <zeeshan> that monitored the incoming
[18:19:31] <zeeshan> and tripped the breaker too
[18:19:36] <zeeshan> didnt rely on just thermal overload
[18:19:38] <CaptHindsight> http://www.theonion.com/articles/experts-ebola-vaccine-at-least-50-white-people-awa,36580/
[18:19:41] <cpresser> basically breakers have an integral. current * dt = heat. when that grows large enough, it trips
[18:19:41] <zeeshan> yes ssi thats it gfci
[18:20:01] <ssi> cpresser: explaining a simple concept in complex terms :)
[18:20:31] <zeeshan> cpressed knows heat transfer
[18:20:32] <zeeshan> :D
[18:21:14] <cpresser> hehe )
[18:21:20] <archivist> breakers and fuses are designed to allow short term overloads of certain percentages
[18:21:34] <cpresser> its called 'schmelzintegral' in german, but I cant translate it :/
[18:21:41] <archivist> the amount depends on the use it is designed for
[18:22:02] <zeeshan> i^2 * t
[18:22:06] <archivist> there are motor rated breakers
[18:22:22] <CaptHindsight> melting integral = schmelzintegral
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[18:23:29] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: is that just a word-by-word-translation, or the correct technical term?
[18:24:46] <CaptHindsight> cpresser:
http://www.siba-fuses.com/front_content.php?idart=194
[18:25:13] <cpresser> thx
[18:25:15] <CaptHindsight> seems to be the accepted term
[18:31:18] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: is it national "show us your guns day" up there today?
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[18:46:12] <CaptHindsight> http://www.instructables.com/id/Near-Infrared-Camera-for-Less-than-10-and-10-mi/
[18:46:54] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: cheap IR webcam to monitor the temp of the conduit and wires as backup
[18:47:16] <CaptHindsight> and a smoke detector should do it
[18:48:09] <lair82> pcw_home, The machine is going to be in the 400ipm rapid range, and I would like it to hold .0002" to .0005" worth of accuracy, and run no more than 1 thou per 1 ipm of following error.
[18:48:25] <lair82> Do you think maybe its the SSD?
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[19:56:44] <ssi> PCW: I flashed the 5i25 in my laser pc to a 7i77 firmware for some testing awhile back, and I just now put it back to 7i76x2 (which I assume is what used to be on there), and I can't get linuxcnc to run the laser configs, which were known good before
[19:56:51] <ssi> it's complaining about one of the field io pins not existing
[19:57:29] <ssi> 7i76.0.0.input-02-not
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[19:58:47] <PCW> did you cycle the PC power?
[20:01:36] <ssi> yeah
[20:01:49] <ssi> and --verify confirms it's the right firmware, and --readhmid shows the stepgens
[20:02:05] <PCW> field power OK?
[20:02:23] <ssi> hm lemme check
[20:03:29] <ssi> bah never mind, I'm a moron
[20:03:37] <ssi> fairly certain the db25 has to be plugged in at both ends
[20:03:39] <ssi> or all the bits leak out
[20:07:42] <_methods> hahahah
[20:07:56] <_methods> those are the best problems
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[20:08:13] <_methods> unless you wipe everything and reinstall and start desoldering stuff and resoldering
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[20:10:04] <ssi> :)
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[20:12:28] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0k78PGIQAAel1y.jpg:large
[20:12:38] <ssi> mounting hole mechanical verification for the new pcb
[20:12:43] <ssi> it'll mount to the bottom of the drive like that
[20:12:53] <ssi> the drive mounts in the enclosure just like it's sitting on the desk
[20:13:04] <ssi> that might actually be unwise due to heat haha
[20:13:11] <ssi> maybe some longer standoffs :P
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[20:38:30] <JT-Shop> this Debian computer don't know the time
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[21:06:28] <ssi> any primus fans?
[21:06:35] <ssi> I think I may have gotten a golden ticket
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[21:15:57] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:47:23] <ssi> nope, guess not
[21:48:15] <_DannyK_> ssi, have you fixed you variable power supply opps?
[21:48:41] <Connor> ssi: Speaking of that.. how did the knob get turned up. :)
[21:49:14] <_DannyK_> I think he said it got bumped
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[21:52:46] <ssi> _DannyK_: yea I fixed it
[21:52:51] <ssi> and yeah it got bumped
[21:53:13] <ssi> the supply has a 5v fixed out, but I wasn't using it because I wanted to be able to limit current if something went wrong
[21:53:16] <ssi> irony :(
[21:53:56] <_DannyK_> hehe, sound reasoning
[21:55:45] <_DannyK_> Ahh, fudge..
[21:56:56] <_DannyK_> Just lost a poly carbonate lense and o-ring. fell to the floor some where with the 20 or so beer caps that are the identical size
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[21:58:49] <MrSunshine> http://9gag.com/gag/a9M1bKK boobys for everyones ejoyment! (SFW) =)
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[21:59:09] <_DannyK_> lol....
[21:59:10] <_DannyK_> nice
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[22:01:55] <MrSunshine> cutest bird ever =)
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[22:24:46] <hpopols> Good evening
[22:25:23] <hpopols> I am working on a python/qt gui for lcnc (coil machine purpose)
[22:26:18] <hpopols> and I can't find how to optain the "auto" (Run , pause , stop,...) status from the python linuxcnc interface
[22:27:06] <hpopols> The documentation is celar about how to set it (through linuxcnc.command().auto(...))
[22:27:44] <hpopols> but not about how to optain the state (through linuxcnc.state())
[22:28:13] <hpopols> Did i miss something?
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[22:59:28] <cpresser> hpopols: you can query halui pins for that
[23:00:49] <hpopols> cpresser : yes i though about that, using import hal....
[23:01:30] <hpopols> i am searching in the axis code to see how they have done that
[23:03:05] <hpopols> axis code is fucking HUGE!
[23:03:40] <hpopols> nearly 1 file with 3500lines!
[23:05:10] <hpopols> cpresser: if you found something more pythonic (direct from MNL i mean) I am interested :)
[23:05:47] <hpopols> anyway i want to thank you for the answer, I felt lonely here :/
[23:05:47] <cpresser> hpopols: cant help with that. i never worked with NML besides of altering a few examples
[23:06:34] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-DIAMETER-CARBIDE-INSERTS-FACE-MILL-SHELL-MILL-CAT40-CAT50-CNC-VMC-/161318692560?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item258f57e6d0
[23:06:44] <ssi> I bet that sucker would move some aluminum
[23:08:11] <cpresser> or cubicmeteres of foam
[23:08:31] <hpopols> interesting the running state is hybrid : "return s.task_mode == linuxcnc.MODE_AUTO and s.interp_state != linuxcnc.INTERP_IDLE"
[23:09:01] <hpopols> let's find the others
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[23:19:40] <hpopols> ok everything is in the axis.py file, search for task_### for ### in (pause,step,resume,run,pauseresume,stop)
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[23:22:27] <hpopols> see you around guys
[23:22:38] <hpopols> bye
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[23:37:44] <roycroft> there's an article in the new digital machinist about migrating from mach3 to linuxcnc
[23:39:24] <_DannyK_> As pure curiosity, who here watches Silicon Valley?
[23:39:59] <ssi> i saw the first ep
[23:40:25] <_DannyK_> how did you like it?
[23:41:27] <ssi> it was ok
[23:41:52] <ssi> obviously not super compelling or I would have watched them all in one sitting :P
[23:42:04] <CaptHindsight> it got better
[23:42:19] <_DannyK_> haha, yeah.. I eventually watched them, and Cap
[23:42:21] <CaptHindsight> Idiocracy was his best do far
[23:42:28] <CaptHindsight> do/so
[23:42:31] <_DannyK_> and as Capt said* it got better
[23:42:59] <CaptHindsight> funny and painful at the same time
[23:43:10] <_DannyK_> Idiocracy scared me
[23:43:19] <ssi> he's very good at making things that are satirical but plausible
[23:43:34] <ssi> from what I saw of silicon valley, it was that way
[23:43:50] <ssi> I've spent enough time in silicon valley to know that a lot of that silliness is very much real
[23:44:01] <_methods> man silicon is awesome
[23:44:13] <_methods> that dick formula
[23:44:14] <CaptHindsight> extract was so so
[23:44:24] <_methods> classic
[23:44:28] <_DannyK_> well it took eight episodes, to make me cry
[23:44:47] <_methods> are they doing another season of it?
[23:44:50] <ssi> I'll watch more of it when I get some free time :
[23:45:50] <_DannyK_> Worth the build up to the 8th episode. IMO
[23:45:58] <CaptHindsight> http://mashable.com/2014/04/21/silicon-valley-renewed-for-second-season-by-hbo/
[23:46:33] <_DannyK_> Capt, that was after the first 4 episodes aired, I believe.
[23:46:36] <_methods> ah good deal
[23:47:10] <CaptHindsight> I'd really like to see his first cut of Idiocracy, but it will never be released
[23:47:17] <_methods> my wife usually hates all the shows i watch but she actually watched silicon valley with me
[23:47:31] <_methods> if i put the league on she leaves
[23:47:32] <_methods> lol
[23:48:47] <roycroft> i haven't heard of it
[23:48:59] <roycroft> but that url indicates it's on hbo, so that would probably be why
[23:50:40] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx3wDTzqDTs
[23:51:16] <_DannyK_> don't clcik that
[23:51:19] <_methods> THE dick joke
[23:51:34] <ssi> I'mma hold off and see it in its full context :P
[23:51:36] <_DannyK_> it is the best scene and may ruin the whol season for you
[23:51:38] <ssi> I heard it was epic
[23:51:52] <_methods> it is THE greatest dick joke ever
[23:52:30] <CaptHindsight> "Mean Jerk Time"
[23:52:52] <_methods> hehe
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