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[00:57:15] <zeeshan> hi
[00:58:20] <zeeshan> for some reason i can't seem to take more than a 16 thou cut on the lathe without chatter on .625" dia work piece or smaller
[00:58:41] <zeeshan> keeping all things the same and instead mounting a 2.5" work piece
[00:58:57] <zeeshan> the chatter goes away. so now i'm thinking its cause my work piece is flexing
[00:59:09] <SpeedEvil> quite plausible
[00:59:14] <SpeedEvil> how long?
[00:59:22] <zeeshan> .625" piece sticking out 2.5"
[00:59:26] <zeeshan> 2.25 - 2.5
[01:00:18] <zeeshan> which is a lot more than the 3x the diameter rule of thumb
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[01:00:57] <zeeshan> if increase the feedrate from 0.006ipr to 0.012 ipr
[01:01:32] <zeeshan> it goes away too
[01:01:36] <zeeshan> but the work piece gets stupid hot
[01:01:48] <zeeshan> which makes no sense :P
[01:01:59] <SpeedEvil> MOAR COOLANT
[01:02:07] <zeeshan> i am not using any coolant :P
[01:02:12] <SpeedEvil> Resonance is a really fun problem
[01:02:14] <zeeshan> i thought given all things the same
[01:02:25] <zeeshan> feedrate means more heat gets transfered into the chip
[01:02:26] <zeeshan> not the work piece
[01:02:34] <zeeshan> thats why theory isn't aligning with practice =D
[01:02:38] <zeeshan> so i am confused
[01:02:47] <SpeedEvil> Well - more heat may get transferred into the chip as a proportion of the total
[01:02:56] <SpeedEvil> but if lots, lots more total heat is made, then ...
[01:03:04] <XXCoder> heh coolant is nice but not magic
[01:03:14] <SpeedEvil> XXCoder: Unless it's unicorn blood.
[01:03:30] <XXCoder> some ops I do makes chips so hot that it steams
[01:03:38] <XXCoder> thats with very heavy coolant spray
[01:03:46] <SpeedEvil> And yes - coolant isn't magic
[01:04:02] <SpeedEvil> it will - generally - keep the workpiece from heating up much though
[01:04:34] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JwTfKUx.jpg
[01:04:34] <LeelooMinai> If it makes smoke, there's something wrong probably:)
[01:04:37] <zeeshan> i have to make more of these
[01:04:42] <zeeshan> so i'd really like to figur eout
[01:04:49] <zeeshan> how to reduce the damn chatter
[01:04:56] <zeeshan> =D
[01:05:02] <XXCoder> not smoke. steam
[01:05:40] <LeelooMinai> Let's call it smoke-like phenomenon
[01:05:43] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlKatLB8vVY
[01:05:52] <zeeshan> hear that? :D
[01:06:12] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Does it have to stick out that far?
[01:06:26] <LeelooMinai> Did you try kicking that rotating part? :)
[01:06:46] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: yes because i'm attacking it from both sides using rh and lh turning tools
[01:06:55] <zeeshan> i guess i can break it into a 2 step process
[01:07:03] <zeeshan> and reduce stickout by like 75%!
[01:07:38] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: That will probably take away some of the chatter.
[01:07:38] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUubp23p9o
[01:07:41] <zeeshan> this is aluminum
[01:07:48] <zeeshan> but this is EXACTLY how stainless stainless piece
[01:07:50] <zeeshan> 2.5" sounds
[01:07:56] <zeeshan> and the chips come out almost the same.
[01:07:58] <zeeshan> just a bit smaller
[01:07:59] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: It's pretty funny what youtube puts as 'related' to your chatter video.
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[01:08:32] <zeeshan> FinboySlick: what does it put
[01:08:58] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: Bunch of videos from these girls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd6GX0yPen8
[01:09:09] <zeeshan> rofl
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[01:10:01] * LeelooMinai adjusts her monitor because all colors suddenly got pastely
[01:10:43] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: That second video looks like it's giving you great finish.
[01:11:04] <zeeshan> yes, stainless is almost exactly the same
[01:11:10] <zeeshan> its shiny!
[01:11:35] <zeeshan> im going to start taking .25" doc in aluminum in the future
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[01:16:57] <LeelooMinai> what is doc?
[01:17:11] <zeeshan> the person when you go to when youre sick
[01:17:21] <zeeshan> -the first when
[01:18:29] <SpeedEvil> What do you mean by 'stupidly hot'
[01:18:34] <SpeedEvil> And why no coolant
[01:18:51] <zeeshan> stupidly hot means
[01:18:55] <zeeshan> your finger burns instantly
[01:18:57] <zeeshan> when you touch it
[01:19:17] <SpeedEvil> That's anything over 100C
[01:19:22] <LeelooMinai> zeeshan: You made me to loose 30 seconds to find out that it means depth of cut
[01:19:33] <SpeedEvil> That does not meaningfully affect most metals - at the low end at least
[01:19:43] <SpeedEvil> (barring expansion)
[01:19:49] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: now you will rememeber forever
[01:19:58] <zeeshan> SpeedEvil: my fingers dont burn at 100C
[01:20:05] <zeeshan> at 100C i go "OH SHIT"
[01:20:09] <zeeshan> and pull finger away
[01:20:21] <zeeshan> =D
[01:20:39] <LeelooMinai> I think one can feel something is hot and cannot really hold a finger to it for long at as low as 50 C
[01:20:46] <zeeshan> i do the tap touch test (dont advise others to do it)
[01:20:49] <ds3> 0.25 DoC?!
[01:20:56] <ds3> how many horses?
[01:21:05] <zeeshan> 3HP
[01:21:11] <zeeshan> 3hp can do that easily in aluminum
[01:21:14] <ds3> Corn cob?
[01:21:19] <zeeshan> lathe
[01:21:27] <ds3> ahhhh
[01:21:36] <ds3> I have stalled a 3HP mill doing cuts like that
[01:21:59] <zeeshan> i think you need like 5HP to do .25" doc with a 3/4" end mill
[01:22:16] <zeeshan> in al
[01:22:20] <LeelooMinai> Wouldn't it depend on how sharp the cutting part is?
[01:22:21] <ds3> will a 3/4" EM survive 0.25?
[01:22:31] <ds3> IIRC, i had a 1" corn cob
[01:22:40] <zeeshan> yea it will
[01:22:44] <zeeshan> if its a high helix
[01:22:51] <ds3> it was fun watching the haas stall ;)
[01:22:57] <zeeshan> at that doc you really need to evacuate the chips more
[01:23:18] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: usually you're assuming the cutting edge is sharp in the calculations
[01:23:46] <LeelooMinai> Then, I don't know, how about feeding it slower?
[01:24:00] <ds3> what kind of rake was in your cutter bit for 0.25" DOC?
[01:24:03] <LeelooMinai> Or that does not matter?
[01:24:20] <zeeshan> LeelooMinai: if you feeding too slowly means too much chatter
[01:24:25] <zeeshan> im thinking coolant is my only way out now
[01:24:34] <zeeshan> since it's a small part, it'll heat up quickly
[01:25:21] <zeeshan> negative rake 3 deg
[01:25:57] <zeeshan> i should make a video!
[01:26:13] <ds3> what kind of machine is this?
[01:26:29] <zeeshan> 12x36 lathe
[01:26:34] <ds3> 0.25" _seems_ like it would run the risk of the cutter getting pulled in
[01:26:43] <ds3> as in the chinese 12x36's?
[01:26:46] <zeeshan> yea
[01:27:00] <ds3> wow
[01:27:17] <zeeshan> ill make a video, will take a little while
[01:30:18] <ds3> what alloy?
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[01:45:55] <ssi> man I'm beat
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[02:08:15] <bnmorgan> anybody have recommendation of a reasonbly priced 4axis engraver?
[02:08:21] <bnmorgan> not sure i trust the ebay stuff.
[02:09:03] <Tom_itx> anybody ever try a PATA to SATA adapeter for a 2.5" drive?
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[02:13:08] <XXCoder> bnmorgan: if you know how to rebuild, ebay stuff is fine
[02:13:08] <skunkworks> don't know if I have ever seen one..
[02:13:28] <XXCoder> you would HAVE to if you want engraver of decent quality and cheap
[02:15:07] <bnmorgan> rebuild as in....repair them, or use them as a base to build something better right off the bat
[02:15:38] <XXCoder> pull it apart and build it again, but this time in proper spec
[02:15:45] <XXCoder> someone in here did it
[02:15:49] <XXCoder> I think it was CaptHindsight
[02:16:13] <bnmorgan> so they're crap out of the box but have the potential of being worthwhile tools?
[02:17:49] <CaptHindsight> bnmorgan: most of them ship without nuts on the end of the ball screws, so they have a few mm of lash
[02:18:14] <CaptHindsight> and they use cheap bearings
[02:18:56] <bnmorgan> hmm.... how long would a reasonably mechanically skilled person expect to spend getting one up to snuff.
[02:19:44] <bnmorgan> seems like things are <$2500 or >$15k
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[02:20:57] <bnmorgan> going to be used for engraving mostly aluminum tubing with possible occasional stainless tube, text and serial numbers mostly.
[02:21:18] <CaptHindsight> I'd build something much better with used ebay parts
[02:22:02] <XXCoder> but then less money ship one unit than all those parts
[02:22:06] <CaptHindsight> what type of 4th axis do you need? tilt or rotation?
[02:22:09] <XXCoder> depends on needs and stuff I guess
[02:22:16] <XXCoder> or actual 4d cnc
[02:22:18] <bnmorgan> rotation.
[02:22:47] <bnmorgan> to be able to engrave on the surface of a cylender.
[02:22:54] <bnmorgan> cylinder.
[02:23:00] <bnmorgan> hm. neither of those look right.
[02:23:35] <bnmorgan> Ø1-2"
[02:23:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Updated-3040c-CNC-ENGRAVER-4-AXIS-Routing-Engraving-Drilling-Carving-Machine-/321282188524
[02:24:10] <bnmorgan> yep, i looked at that exact one today i think.
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[02:24:52] <bnmorgan> how much more money and how much time, ballpark, to have that being a decent machine.
[02:25:17] <roycroft> i think a foredom flex-shaft tool would have too much runout to work decently, even with a collet spindle
[02:25:53] <roycroft> i've never measured tir on mine - i should do that some time
[02:26:18] <XXCoder> can always remove and add actual spidle
[02:26:23] <bnmorgan> i've seen several that appear to have stepper motors with belt drives.
[02:26:35] <CaptHindsight> for almost no money they could use ball screws with nuts, but they use ball screw with the ends cut off :(
[02:27:13] <CaptHindsight> what work area do you want?
[02:28:13] <bnmorgan> um. for cyl work, 10" between centers. for flat work, part size is within 4.5x8"
[02:28:42] <bnmorgan> ability to mount multiple wouldn't be horrible but not necessary, would want to mount in a way to allow either to be engraved.
[02:29:02] <bnmorgan> (suppressors and ar type lower receivers)
[02:29:53] <roycroft> "hand touching the cutter is prohibited when using the machine"
[02:30:10] <roycroft> if you intend on touching the cutter while it's running, you'll have to buy something else
[02:30:20] <bnmorgan> yeah. i thought about starting a business contracting out to rewrite engrish instruction manuals and things like ebay ads.
[02:30:24] <roycroft> something to keep in mind
[02:31:01] <jdh> http://www.dapramarking.com/dotpeen/maxim3.htm
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[02:32:04] <CaptHindsight> they aren't interested in hiring people to translate
[02:32:06] <bnmorgan> hm. woul dhave to ck to make sure that meets atf reqt.
[02:32:10] <CaptHindsight> that costs money
[02:33:20] <jdh> I've seen lots of dot peened receiver markings
[02:33:43] <bnmorgan> yeah, i'm talking about nfa items like suppressors.
[02:34:05] <jdh> if it is sufficient for receivers, it should be fine for all
[02:34:45] <bnmorgan> side note: commercial websites that do not list prices are pigshit.
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[02:34:57] <jdh> yeah, probably means overpriced.
[02:35:14] <jdh> they are simple to get what you want marked though.
[02:39:15] <bnmorgan> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Machine-engraver-CNC-Router-3040-4axis-ballscrew-engraving-Hot-sale-/221561265256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3396149c68
[02:42:32] <jdh> I have a slightly larger version
[02:43:00] <bnmorgan> suggestions or problems?
[02:43:17] <jdh> works fine. I skipped ebay and paid a little more at carvingcnc.com
[02:44:37] <bnmorgan> any actual difference ?
[02:45:13] <jdh> dunno, I didn't try the others.
[02:45:38] <bnmorgan> hrm. i like the usb versions, but not want ot be stuck with m3
[02:46:22] <bnmorgan> will linuxcnc tonrol them at all?
[02:46:25] <bnmorgan> wow. control too
[02:47:05] <elmo40> bnmorgan: commercial websites such as what? The manufacturer? Or a reseller?
[02:47:20] <bnmorgan> commercial sites like the dapramarking site.
[02:47:21] <elmo40> Manufacturers won't list prices because that screws their distributors
[02:47:31] <elmo40> I don't know that site. send me a link
[02:48:00] <bnmorgan> ahh, jdh posted it just before you joined. [21:31] <jdh>
http://www.dapramarking.com/dotpeen/maxim3.htm
[02:49:23] <elmo40> those guys are resellers. they don't manufacture the items. they are at the whim of the manu for pricing.
[02:49:36] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtuQcJ4prHE
[02:49:38] <zeeshan> .25 doc
[02:49:39] <zeeshan> video
[02:49:43] <elmo40> companies like this are not interested in displaying, and maintaining, prices on their websites
[02:50:25] <bnmorgan> just hate that i have to waste my time and theirs just to ask for price.
[02:50:51] <zeeshan> i think i need a different insert
[02:50:58] <zeeshan> this is a "finishing" insert
[02:50:58] <zeeshan> :p
[02:51:04] <zeeshan> prolly why the chips arent breaking
[02:51:09] <elmo40> exactly
[02:51:09] <zeeshan> i tried feeding at 5.8 ipm too
[02:51:14] <zeeshan> still no chip breakage
[02:51:15] <elmo40> I was gonna ask what the rad on the tip was
[02:51:20] <zeeshan> 0.016
[02:51:21] <bnmorgan> aluminum?
[02:51:27] <elmo40> more feed, too. that will help break the chip
[02:51:34] <zeeshan> yes
[02:51:34] <elmo40> 16??? damn. that is tiny!
[02:51:48] <zeeshan> i went from 1.4 ipm to 5.8 made to differnt to the chip
[02:52:30] <elmo40> now try that with a ferrous metal ;-)
[02:52:33] <zeeshan> *made no difference i mean
[02:52:41] <zeeshan> elmo i tried .100 doc with 304 stainless
[02:52:46] <zeeshan> it cuts, but chatters
[02:52:52] <zeeshan> on 2.5" piece
[02:52:53] <elmo40> same tiny tip?
[02:52:55] <zeeshan> yea
[02:53:03] <zeeshan> it stop chattering at .030" doc
[02:53:09] <zeeshan> so something is flexing somewhere :P
[02:53:16] <elmo40> just a little
[02:53:18] <elmo40> :-P
[02:53:28] <zeeshan> i didnt make a video of it
[02:53:33] <zeeshan> cause the chips are stupid hot
[02:53:35] <zeeshan> and they were burning me
[02:53:44] <zeeshan> i need to make a cover for the lathe
[02:54:33] <elmo40> that was my next point
[02:54:55] <elmo40> if that piece flew out at that RPM you will be in some serious hurt...
[02:55:08] <zeeshan> meh
[02:55:13] <zeeshan> ive manually machined worse stuff
[02:55:13] <roycroft> oh man
[02:55:19] <roycroft> i was just getting ready to make the popcorn
[02:55:24] <roycroft> and now the film has been cancelled
[02:55:27] <elmo40> lol
[02:55:33] <zeeshan> solarmovie.is?
[02:55:33] <zeeshan> :D
[02:55:42] <zeeshan> elmo40 the only thing ive had fly out ever
[02:55:57] <zeeshan> is stainless 0.120 wall tube
[02:55:58] <zeeshan> 3"
[02:56:06] <zeeshan> i was clamping from the outside
[02:56:10] <zeeshan> instead of from the inside..
[02:56:17] <zeeshan> and it was sticking out 12"
[02:56:18] <zeeshan> haha
[02:56:34] <zeeshan> and doing a facing cut :p
[02:56:58] <zeeshan> was a bad idea
[02:59:12] <Tom_itx> face cut from right to left
[02:59:26] <zeeshan> left to right
[02:59:29] <Tom_itx> no
[02:59:36] <Tom_itx> the chips will fly to the back if you do
[03:00:03] <zeeshan> that makes sense :D
[03:00:19] <zeeshan> no more machining for tonight
[03:00:26] <zeeshan> i already cleaned the lathe
[03:00:36] <Tom_itx> i meant on a mill
[03:00:36] <zeeshan> thsoe damn al chips were a pain ;p
[03:01:23] <Tom_itx> you're pretty much stuck with birds nest on a lathe
[03:01:45] <Tom_itx> unless you interrupt the cut
[03:02:45] <zeeshan> this chip breaker seems to work well only at .100 - .125 doc
[03:02:56] <zeeshan> all the way down to 0.020
[03:03:00] <zeeshan> anything less or more
[03:03:02] <zeeshan> its no good
[03:03:13] <zeeshan> i guess thats why they have recommendations on inserts!
[03:04:24] <zeeshan> here we go
[03:04:36] <zeeshan> recommending doc = 0.020 to 0.080
[03:04:47] <zeeshan> feedrate = 0.004 to 0.008
[03:04:53] <zeeshan> sfm 430 to 890
[03:04:55] <zeeshan> no wonder
[03:08:46] <zeeshan> sandvik: As a general rule of thumb, the depth of cut should be greater than or equal to 2/3 of the nose radius, or 1/2 of the nose radius in the feed direction.
[03:10:42] <elmo40> that is to create a decent finish and make nice chips
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[03:11:53] <elmo40> hence why the finishing inserts have a tiny radius. less feed, less peaks&valleys, smoother finish.
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[03:12:39] <elmo40> we used a lot of round inserts at my last place. huge cuts. huge parts. high feed rates. chips were as thick as a pencil!
[03:12:52] <zeeshan> haha
[03:12:59] <zeeshan> the round insert is almost a form tool
[03:17:51] <zeeshan> connor
[03:17:53] <zeeshan> according to chai
[03:17:57] <zeeshan> the double ball nut fits the same screw.
[03:18:10] <zeeshan> $89 usd shipped
[03:18:18] <zeeshan> 1xdoublenut 1605, 1xdoublenut 2505
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[03:19:38] <elmo40> the octagon inserts were introduced to us about a week before I left. I tried one. man, if only I had them in the beginning! they chewed material so fast I couldn't take a coffee break on long cuts anymore!
[03:20:49] <Connor> zeeshan: Yea. I know they'll fit.. but.. I was a bit concerned about them being "fitted" to your screw with proper preload..
[03:21:11] <zeeshan> i dont understand
[03:21:16] <zeeshan> you think the pitch might be different?
[03:21:27] <zeeshan> arent those adjustable?
[03:21:33] <Connor> No.. But every screw could have lead error.
[03:21:44] <zeeshan> every screw does have lead error!
[03:21:58] <zeeshan> that means the preload will vary on the screw?
[03:22:04] <Connor> yup. and they grind those spacers to match your screw.
[03:22:18] <zeeshan> yea but lead error isn't constant throughout the screw
[03:22:24] <zeeshan> it varies
[03:22:40] <zeeshan> rockford will provide an error map with their ball screws
[03:22:43] <zeeshan> so you can compensate
[03:23:03] <zeeshan> worst comes to worst, i will need a new spacer?
[03:23:10] <zeeshan> connor is the preload adjustable?
[03:23:10] <Connor> Yea.
[03:23:17] <zeeshan> from your pics, i wasn't sure how it is adjusted
[03:23:18] <Connor> No. It's not
[03:23:26] <elmo40> they provide a ball screw map of the grind???
[03:23:32] <zeeshan> elmo40 yea
[03:24:02] <elmo40> how do you tell linuxcnc that the compensation needs to change depending on where you are?
[03:24:09] <zeeshan> connor okay now i see what youre saying
[03:24:32] <zeeshan> so worst comes to worst, itll be too big
[03:24:35] <zeeshan> so too much preload
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[03:24:42] <zeeshan> or too small, too little preload
[03:24:55] <zeeshan> think its easy to fabricate?
[03:24:59] <Connor> You'll probably be okay.. I just heard he was a bit hesitant to sell the nuts not already pre-adjusted for the screws they were going to be used on.
[03:25:30] <Connor> Yea.. It looks like a casting.. that's be ground.. 2 of them.. Half moons.
[03:25:40] <zeeshan> elmo40: ive heard it can be done
[03:25:44] <zeeshan> i dont know the procedure though
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[03:26:16] <Connor> You already order them ?
[03:26:17] <zeeshan> i know the sinumerik seimens controller had ball screw mappin
[03:26:25] <zeeshan> Connor: i just asked him to send an invoice
[03:26:30] <zeeshan> waiting
[03:26:39] <Connor> It'll be a paypal one.
[03:26:58] <zeeshan> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/ballscrews_100214_01.jpg
[03:27:18] <elmo40> but honestly, how much out can they be? 0.0001" ?
[03:27:18] <zeeshan> i dont really see how that works
[03:27:27] <zeeshan> elmo40: more
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[03:27:52] <zeeshan> they only guarantee 0.003" for the rolled screws per foot
[03:28:19] <elmo40> 3 thou????? that is insanely high.
[03:28:29] <zeeshan> yea but in reality rockfords are clsoe to 1 thou
[03:28:42] <zeeshan> its not that big of a deal though since lead error is constant
[03:28:50] <zeeshan> for long periods of time
[03:28:53] <elmo40> wait, 3 per foot?!?!?!?!? even worse than I thought.
[03:28:54] <zeeshan> until they get worn :D
[03:29:22] <roycroft> that's about right for a chinese rolled ball screw reject
[03:29:39] <elmo40> not something that Mazak would be using...
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[03:30:11] <elmo40> I'd use it on a pen plotter, not a cnc machine.
[03:30:12] <Connor> Umm.. C7 calls for 0.0019685 per 11.811
[03:30:49] <elmo40> better, but still crappy, imo.
[03:31:35] <Connor> for hobby.. It's the most cost effective option.. C5 and above cost way more $$$
[03:31:55] <elmo40> +/- 50 per 300mm
[03:32:14] <Connor> +/ 50 uM
[03:32:34] <Connor> Unit: um
[03:32:40] <elmo40> yes
[03:32:40] <roycroft> this is a kind of interesting old school engraver:
[03:32:43] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-CNC-Engraver-/111476688633?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f48746f9
[03:32:49] <Valen> you can calibrate it out
[03:32:53] <elmo40> C8 is 100!
[03:32:53] <Valen> in EMC
[03:33:09] <Connor> C10 is 210
[03:33:22] <elmo40> Valen: but what if it is variable? first foot is 2, second foot is 3, third foot is only 1.
[03:33:29] <Connor> C7 is the highest Rolled screw you can get.. C5 and above will be ground.
[03:33:42] <Valen> elmo40: thats fine
[03:33:51] <Valen> there is a screwcomp table
[03:34:07] <Valen> you can put in a correction for every inch
[03:34:22] <Valen> and it'll interpolate between the corrections
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[03:34:48] <toastydeath> lead error per revolution can actually be quite high
[03:35:08] <Valen> we just put glass scales on for position measurement ;->
[03:35:25] <toastydeath> second best way of doing it, imho
[03:35:25] <Connor> Or, map it out 1 inch at a time..
[03:35:30] <pcw_home> linuxcncs table allows 256 entries
[03:35:45] <Valen> toastydeath: whats better?
[03:35:54] <elmo40> Valen: you compare glass scale with what, servo or stepper?
[03:36:07] <Valen> no comparison, I actually use that for the servo loop
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[03:36:12] <toastydeath> comp tables are best used minimally, since even ballscrews have hysteresis
[03:36:13] <Valen> it *is* the position
[03:36:23] <elmo40> I see
[03:36:27] <toastydeath> the better-than-glass-scales thing is a metrology frame
[03:36:43] <Valen> yeah, but not many mills come with one of those
[03:36:45] <toastydeath> a force-free frame attached kinematically to the table
[03:36:48] <toastydeath> you can make one
[03:37:01] <toastydeath> they correct for issues like table bend and cutting load
[03:37:19] <toastydeath> cuz the frame's not on the table, just attached to it kinematically.
[03:37:27] <Valen> that's not going to be trivial to do well ;->
[03:37:34] <toastydeath> it's not hard
[03:37:35] <elmo40> way too complicated for a home mill ;)
[03:37:39] <Connor> okay. What size stepper motor for a little 4" rotary table... Nema 23 size most likly... but.. how strong..
[03:37:42] <Valen> linky?
[03:37:55] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-23
[03:37:59] <elmo40> Connor: why so small. go larger ;)
[03:38:24] <toastydeath> I've never seen a webpage describing how to build them - the basic idea is the mount principles, not the frame itself
[03:38:26] <Valen> I have never heard anybody say "this stepper has too much holding torque"
[03:38:27] <elmo40> will it cut and spin? or just locate and lock?
[03:38:47] <Connor> It's a worm gear rotary table..
[03:38:55] <Connor> Just need descent torque to turn it.
[03:38:57] <toastydeath> there's a book that describes how to mount things kinematically,
http://www.amazon.com/Exact-Constraint-Machine-Kinematic-Processing/dp/0791800857
[03:39:00] <Connor> and would like some speed.
[03:39:38] <elmo40> you answered your question. high torque + speed = larger motor than a size 23 can give.
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[03:39:55] <elmo40> go 34
[03:40:47] <elmo40> min 750oz.in
[03:40:55] <elmo40> I think a 23 can be as high as 250.
[03:41:06] <elmo40> isn't much, when you really think about it.
[03:41:26] <Connor> I have nema 23 570's on my X Y and Z..
[03:41:39] <Connor> Lower inductance is needed..
[03:42:13] <elmo40> double stacked motors?
[03:42:33] <Connor> Yes.
[03:42:38] <Valen> design by guessing specs ;->
[03:42:46] <Valen> pick what you can afford, fit, and drive
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[03:44:32] <zeeshan> yay
[03:44:35] <zeeshan> sold my air compressor
[03:44:41] <zeeshan> the small one that was just taking up space
[03:45:03] <roycroft> we both cleared out some space today
[03:45:14] <roycroft> it feels good to have stuff like that go away
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[03:46:51] <zeeshan> yea man
[03:46:58] <zeeshan> my bandsaw can sit in its place
[03:47:19] <Connor> I wish Automation Technologies would provide torque curve pdf's for all their steppers
[03:47:35] <zeeshan> connor
[03:47:46] <zeeshan> if you really want to get _proper_ with torque requirement
[03:47:56] <zeeshan> you can look at "Shigley's mechanical engineering"
[03:47:59] <zeeshan> i have a pdf if you want
[03:48:10] <zeeshan> it talks about power requirements for worm gears
[03:48:25] <zeeshan> then combine that with the worst case cuting forces
[03:48:32] <zeeshan> and multiply that number by 2 :P
[03:50:00] <Connor> That's not going to do me much good without having info for the steppers.
[03:50:28] <zeeshan> you can find the torque info from kelings old site
[03:50:41] <Connor> Not all of them have them.
[03:50:55] <Connor> I just found 2 that had the same pdf but different motors.. :(
[03:51:20] <zeeshan> unless youre planning to drive the rotary table at high speed
[03:51:36] <zeeshan> you can probably assume the name plate torque is the torque
[03:51:51] <zeeshan> cause i think for most of their motors based on the pdfs ive seen are prettyu constant upto 500pps
[03:53:07] <zeeshan> anyone know what the variable a_p stands for?
[03:53:14] <zeeshan> i know its depth of cut, but why the a and the p
[03:54:15] <Connor> Hmm.. .9 degree/step
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[05:06:44] <XXCoder> http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3497#comic
[05:09:59] <zeeshan> anyone here a drill a hockey puck before?
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[05:16:08] <XXCoder> its probably dense rubber
[05:16:12] <XXCoder> maybe have core or not
[05:16:17] <XXCoder> assume it does
[05:16:25] <zeeshan> http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/jayoldschool/008-1.jpg
[05:16:27] <zeeshan> i wanna do that
[05:16:33] <zeeshan> for my compressor
[05:16:41] <zeeshan> lathe and mill too
[05:16:48] <XXCoder> yeah I think I will do same for my cnc router
[05:16:53] <zeeshan> im gonna look like a crazy man buying 20 hockey pucks
[05:16:54] <zeeshan> :d
[05:16:54] <XXCoder> if i ever get to it bahhhh
[05:17:08] <zeeshan> XXCoder: just take one of the cnc mills home with you
[05:17:13] <XXCoder> they will assume youre coach oir something
[05:17:19] <zeeshan> haha
[05:17:20] <XXCoder> sure lol
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[10:16:06] <Deejay> moin
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[12:03:47] <jthornton> GOTO...
[12:04:28] <archivist> JMP
[12:05:28] <archivist> I have been wondering if I should stir the GOTO pot :)
[12:05:53] <archivist> but I did some production instead
http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_10_03_antenna_adapters/
[12:06:46] <jthornton> nice, is the knurled one a different one?
[12:06:52] <archivist> that is the highest qty of one item I have made on the old southbend iirc
[12:06:56] <Tom_itx> happy friday!
[12:07:20] <Tom_itx> jthornton, the cool front hit you yet?
[12:07:22] * jthornton is going to Kuttawa for the weekend
[12:07:27] <jthornton> kinda
[12:07:29] <archivist> jthornton, I was making a different threaded one to that pattern
[12:07:32] <jthornton> got rain last night
[12:07:52] <Tom_itx> we had a frost warning
[12:08:26] <Tom_itx> archivist, are we to guess which one is different?
[12:09:09] <jthornton> we have a low of 40F for tonight and tomorrow night
[12:09:17] <archivist> the brass copies have a UNF male thread, the original has something else
[12:09:34] <Tom_itx> and you cut a relief for the thread on one
[12:09:38] <archivist> it is sunny and warm here
[12:10:30] <archivist> the original has a relief, but I used the die backwards to keep the strength
[12:10:53] <jthornton> you threaded them with a die nut?
[12:11:06] <Tom_itx> he cheated
[12:11:18] <archivist> actual manual work no cnc :)
[12:11:26] <jthornton> I can't ever get them to start straight
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[12:11:37] <Tom_itx> manual labor! what's the world coming to...
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[12:11:49] <archivist> I use the tailstock to align the die
[12:12:27] <jthornton> what size threads?
[12:12:36] <archivist> 3/8 nf
[12:13:05] <archivist> with a 10mm internal you cannot see
[12:14:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: to an end.
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[12:30:23] <Jymmm> If anyone cares... VERY nice flashlight. More "natural" than blue tint, lock out the annoying strobe/sos, dual spring tension on the battery,
http://www.fasttech.com/product/1212404
[12:33:56] <Jymmm> If you're one of those that get their panties in a bunch cause they can't wait for slow shipping, order batteries seperatly, because they WILL be on a (literally) slow boat from china as international law prevents air transport of lithium batteries.
[12:34:26] * SpeedEvil wants to make his own lithium batteries.
[12:34:45] * Jymmm grabs the marshmellows
[12:35:00] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil roasting over an open fire...
[12:36:21] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature13700.html
[12:36:48] <Jymmm> screw that, molten salt !
[12:36:58] <elmo40> I'm thinking of getting one of these for my lathe. Any thoughts?
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/marketing/encoder/linear-encoders.php
[12:37:17] <SpeedEvil> 10kWh cell from 3kg lithium, 20kg antimony, 40kg lead
[12:38:29] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Dude, molten salt for thermal storage!!! forget KW, MEGAWATTS BABY!!!
[12:38:53] <SpeedEvil> Thermal is much, much less useful.
[12:39:02] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Just put up safety net for migrating birds.
[12:39:11] <SpeedEvil> I'm in scotland.
[12:39:21] <SpeedEvil> There is fuck-all sun from about next week till next year
[12:39:47] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Wait till winter time =)
[12:39:48] <archivist> it is a sunny day down here :)
[12:40:11] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: err - what?
[12:40:11] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: go hug you atimony battery then =)
[12:40:46] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: And gawd help ya if you ever have a leak =)
[12:42:09] <SpeedEvil> It'd be inside a welded vessel, flushed with zenon
[12:42:10] <SpeedEvil> err
[12:42:11] <SpeedEvil> argon
[12:42:57] <Jymmm> Yeah? so is every petro station underground holding tank. But they have to dig them up every 10 years by law,cause they leak =)
[12:43:32] <Jymmm> Just sayin
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[12:44:31] <malcom2073_> Hey, I just had a pwmed SSR fail and lock open, almost catching things on fire, which was fun. My question is, is it possible to route the output of the SSR back to an input (through an opto isolator so the input only see's 5V), to verify the SSR is operating correctly? Something like PWM read?
[12:44:53] <malcom2073_> or rather, lock closed
[12:45:09] <Jymmm> you mean fail safe
[12:45:19] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073_: yes.
[12:45:39] <malcom2073_> would I use an encoder input for that or what?
[12:45:39] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073_: simplest way is smething like a power supply or lamp run off the switched output.
[12:46:12] <SpeedEvil> What are you powering from it?
[12:46:19] <Jymmm> what SpeedEvil said. The cheapest mains to 5V pwr supply you can find
[12:46:29] <SpeedEvil> Not the cheapest
[12:46:30] <malcom2073_> It's a DC SSR
[12:46:37] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: a 3d printer heated bed from one, and a hotend to the other
[12:46:42] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: voltage?
[12:46:46] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: 24v
[12:46:49] <SpeedEvil> If it's DC, I'd just go with an optocoupler
[12:47:18] <malcom2073_> Getting the pwmed signal to be 5v and input isn't an issue, what would I use to detect that in linuxcnc/hal land?
[12:47:20] <SpeedEvil> ~1K resistor in series with the optocoupler LED, and just then treat it as a transistor
[12:47:28] <SpeedEvil> ah
[12:47:38] <malcom2073_> Sorry, wasn't clear heh
[12:48:06] <Jymmm> step down converter $3
[12:48:58] <malcom2073_> Let me rephrase: I have a 0-5V 20hz pwm signal coming into linuxcnc, how can I detect/use that to do things based on the pwm %?
[12:49:24] <elmo40> when you switch from G1 to G0, does the software just give more steps/min? or does the driver get a signal to change from 40,000steps/rev to 200steps/rev and use the same step count but larger angles per step?
[12:51:45] <archivist> elmo40, step rate changes
[12:51:51] <elmo40> ok
[12:52:45] <archivist> the distance/angle per step is set by you the integrator in your ini/hal
[12:53:35] <elmo40> that is only read once, and not 'fluid' ?
[12:55:05] <malcom2073_> Ah, I suppose I could use encoder, and just check the counts against time
[12:55:12] <malcom2073_> Wait no
[12:55:16] <malcom2073_> that would only give me my pwmfreq
[12:55:20] <malcom2073_> not the duty cycle
[12:57:04] <SpeedEvil> elmo40: do you actually care. Or do you want if it's not working to flag a failure, and stop?
[12:57:24] <SpeedEvil> err malcom2073_
[12:57:54] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: The latter... but I don't know what different failure modes this SSR may have, so I figured verifying output pwm == input pwm (within a certain percentage) would be sufficient
[12:58:08] <malcom2073_> I suppose just piping it into an encoder, would verify pwm is actually running as opposed to being locked on solid
[12:58:37] <SpeedEvil> Of course - if it's on solid - there is nothing linuxcnc can do to turn it off
[12:58:49] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: Cept cut power to the main power relay :P
[12:58:53] <SpeedEvil> 'emergency stop' input I was thinking of
[12:58:56] <malcom2073_> yeah
[12:59:47] <SpeedEvil> If output to PWM is low, and input from output of SSR is high, emergency stop
[12:59:50] <malcom2073_> Well the bed pwm can vary from 0 to 60%, it never hits 100, so I'd need at least some logic in there (easy enough in HAL, as long as I know what to look for)
[13:00:47] <malcom2073_> The SSR is slow though, 20-30ms rise and fall times, but I suppose taking an average would work, since *most* of the time it should bein an identical state
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[13:02:16] <SpeedEvil> Why a SSR not a FET?
[13:02:24] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: Because I figured a SSR would be easy :/ heh
[13:02:39] <malcom2073_> And it's 25amps
[13:03:08] <archivist> is this switching a heater
[13:03:09] <SpeedEvil> ah
[13:03:19] <malcom2073_> archivist: yes
[13:03:23] <malcom2073_> archivist: hotbed on a 3d printer
[13:03:27] <SpeedEvil> Or yes - that - temperature sensing would be nice
[13:03:38] <archivist> them measure the temperature and limit that
[13:03:40] <SpeedEvil> malcom2073_: you might also consider a little bimetal thermostat as a safety
[13:04:15] <malcom2073_> That's the other option, either have a thermostat that will cut off a bit above my intended temp, or have a second temp sensor, and if it senses that it's overshooting by that much, cut main power
[13:04:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Temperature-Switch-Thermostat-KSD301-KSD302-150-C-NC-/150711332148?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item2317186d34
[13:04:45] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: Nice
[13:04:52] <SpeedEvil> That is likely not OK with DC though
[13:05:01] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: I'm sure I can find one that is
[13:05:04] <SpeedEvil> you'd need to find one with actual specs, and read it
[13:05:13] <archivist> you current temperature control loop should error on limit
[13:05:28] <malcom2073_> archivist: It doesn't, I set it up wrong
[13:06:15] <archivist> fix that instead :)
[13:06:18] <malcom2073_> Alright so I set up my temp look to error on limit, put in a bimetal thermostat, and get a main power switch for cutting power in case of an estop thrown by either the temp limit, or finding the bimetal thermostat triggered.
[13:06:26] <malcom2073_> Should be enough to give me peace of mind :)
[13:06:55] <malcom2073_> No need to monitor the SSR, just monitor the result,s the heat
[13:06:59] <malcom2073_> no clue why that slipped my mind :/
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[13:08:05] <SpeedEvil> bimetal thermostats, or thermal fuses, or ... are nice as emergency stuff, as done right, you can't fuck them up with software
[13:08:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: I've seen thermal switchs fail, use two in series to added pleasure
[13:08:21] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
[13:09:04] <malcom2073_> Hah SpeedEvil, nice
[13:10:35] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: as much as I trust linuxcnc, I never leave this machine alone. I don't trust anything capable of burning down my house
[13:11:00] <malcom2073_> But, like today, I stepped out to get a drink, came back in to a heatbed at 160C andrising
[13:11:20] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: you use safety relays too?
[13:11:52] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: I have one on main power line, should probably put individual ones on the 24v heating circuits
[13:12:19] <malcom2073_> This is the first failure I've had in two years, but it's enough to make me go overboard :)
[13:13:15] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Coffee makers have thermostats and thermal fuses in them for safety. I watched the timer kick on and the plastic arund the heating element melt before my eyes... dual failure.
[13:13:30] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Yeah, hence neve leaving the machine alone at home heh
[13:13:40] <malcom2073_> everything can, and will fail at once while you're not around to stop it
[13:13:46] <malcom2073_> Or sometimes even if you are :)
[13:14:04] <Jymmm> total random fluke, but I NEVER leave anything 1000W+ plugeed in... toaster, oven, etc
[13:14:12] <malcom2073_> yeah
[13:14:23] <malcom2073_> I think these people with 3-4 printers running in a room while they go to sleep are nuts.
[13:14:27] <Jymmm> Especially with a $0.40 timer switch in them
[13:14:33] <malcom2073_> lowest bidder :)
[13:14:52] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: you might consider a temp alarm
[13:15:01] <Jymmm> one probe per
[13:15:17] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Maybe.
[13:15:25] <malcom2073_> So on the other side of the problem: this was a $10 cheapie amazon.com SSR
[13:15:28] <Jymmm> if it over temps wake up everyone
[13:15:45] <Jymmm> it was a SSR, period =)
[13:15:45] <malcom2073_> I've seen omrons for $60-$70, is there anything inbetween that is decent?
[13:16:14] <Jymmm> why not a REAL relay?
[13:16:21] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: pwm at 20hz
[13:16:31] <Jymmm> for thermal control?
[13:16:33] <malcom2073_> yeah
[13:16:49] <Jymmm> beefier version?
[13:17:10] <malcom2073_> They're rated at 60A, I'm running them at 20A with big heatsinks/fans, soI don't think I'm hitting any limits
[13:17:25] <Jymmm> so just a defective one
[13:17:30] <malcom2073_> amazon reviews say they fail a lot
[13:17:36] <Jymmm> or overstated ratings
[13:17:40] <Jymmm> lovely
[13:17:45] <malcom2073_> yeah :/
[13:17:48] <Jymmm> THEN WHY DID YOU BUY IT?! lol
[13:18:01] <malcom2073_> Heh, I'm an idiot.
[13:18:19] <malcom2073_> I thought "Oh, they must be not heatsinking it, or doing something dumb"
[13:18:20] <malcom2073_> nope.
[13:18:24] Jymmm is now known as red70sShow
[13:18:26] <red70sShow> malcom2073_: <--- DUMBASS
[13:18:27] <malcom2073_> oh geeze
[13:18:28] <malcom2073_> haha
[13:18:30] red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[13:18:38] <malcom2073_> lemme go down to the basement and smoke up :P
[13:19:00] <malcom2073_> Lesson learned though
[13:19:10] <Jymmm> No, he knew better, the other one that wanted in jackie's pants?
[13:19:14] <malcom2073_> lol
[13:19:20] <Jymmm> kelso
[13:19:24] <malcom2073_> yeah kelso
[13:19:50] <Jymmm> /ForceNickChange malcom2073_ Kelso
[13:19:56] <malcom2073_> heh
[13:20:38] <Jymmm> is one side ground on the output?
[13:20:51] <Jymmm> wait, nm
[13:21:05] <malcom2073_> yes, I am low side switching
[13:21:12] <Jymmm> Oh, hmmm
[13:22:12] <Jymmm> What if you sorta 'Y' off the input witht he output with a thermal switch?
[13:22:44] <Jymmm> If it overtemps, then one side of the output is interuppted
[13:22:57] <Jymmm> assuming a manual resetable thermal switch
[13:23:10] <malcom2073_> That would work
[13:23:17] <malcom2073_> yeah heh, don't want it automatically flipping back on
[13:23:45] <Jymmm> or a safety relay inbetween but that's starting to sound like a clusterfuck
[13:23:46] <malcom2073_> I run the bed at 115C, Get like a 150C temp switch, have linuxcnc throw an estop and cut power at 125 or something, then the 150 is extra safety
[13:24:25] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: You CAN silicon thermal switches directly to what you want to measure too
[13:24:53] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: there's space under the heatbed I can put it, so that'll work well
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[13:25:39] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Yeah, not to find a manual reset one that doens't cost an arm/leg/first born
[13:25:47] <Jymmm> now*
[13:26:19] <Jymmm> malcom2073_:
http://www.pepiusa.com/disc_kb_cb.html
[13:27:17] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: I like Pepi products, they REALLY put a lot of engineering into them and you can request samples too.
[13:27:37] * SpeedEvil misread that as Pepsi.
[13:27:38] <malcom2073_> Hmm
[13:27:41] <malcom2073_> SpeedEvil: me too
[13:28:03] <Jymmm> Me three, I just deal with a lot of thermal crap =)
[13:28:42] <malcom2073_> Gotta find one rated for DC, and 20+ amps too heh
[13:29:11] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: they have them, AC, DC, resitsive loads, inductive loads. Jsut read the datasheets carefully
[13:29:13] <malcom2073_> Could always use it to drive a relay, for another bonus point of failure
[13:29:16] <malcom2073_> :P
[13:29:53] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: As exmaple 36V/4A resistive
http://www.pepiusa.com/modh.html
[13:30:13] <malcom2073_> yeah
[13:30:30] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Then on top of that, on temp, off temp, threshold, etc
[13:30:51] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: dont assume anythignwhen readint eh datasheets is all I'm saying.
[13:30:57] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Of course
[13:31:13] <Jymmm> they are confusing as hell
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[13:33:05] <malcom2073_> Still stuck with the cheapie amazon SSR's, or the super expensive digikey/mouser ones though. Are there other options for 20hz pwm of a 20a 24v load?
[13:33:10] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: oh this is slick...
http://www.pepiusa.com/disc_so_cso.html
[13:33:21] <skunkworks> opto22...
[13:33:24] <skunkworks> ebay
[13:33:35] <malcom2073_> Lol self hold nice
[13:33:58] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Oh, ewww self-reset
[13:34:48] <Jymmm> Eh, the manual reset seem simpler/safer
[13:35:06] <malcom2073_> yeah
[13:36:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: On your SSR that failed, was the output just 100% on?
[13:36:13] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: yES
[13:36:41] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: So, even if the input was disconnected it would have still been shorted?
[13:36:53] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: Correct, I disconnected the input and it is stil shorted
[13:37:07] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: amps?
[13:37:16] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: I'm running 20A, but the relay is capable of 60A
[13:38:08] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Uh oh.... "Please consult our Sales Engineers for suggested contact ratings when applied to DC type loads."
[13:38:15] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: yeah I saw that heh
[13:38:49] <malcom2073_> I'll shoot them off an email later today and see what they say
[13:41:21] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Since you are using 20A DC, maybe a cheaper/simpler alternative would be a fusable link?
http://www.whiteproducts.com/fusible-faqs.shtml
[13:41:40] <malcom2073_> Jymmm: The problem isn't current, it's heat
[13:41:42] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: available at most auto part stores
[13:41:52] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Right, then melt
[13:41:55] <Jymmm> they
[13:42:04] <malcom2073_> They melt well above what my plastic bed will melt at
[13:43:24] <malcom2073_> I think I'll be ok
[13:43:47] <malcom2073_> I'll keep an eye out for a manual reset thermostat, but I can implement the other things in the meantime and reduce the chances of things going bad
[13:45:12] <Jymmm> Mentions 150C Rated fuseable link btw
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[13:47:17] <Jymmm> nm, that's the insulaton rating
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[13:53:17] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: It be SO much easier if you had AC instead of DC =)
[13:53:21] <malcom2073_> heh
[13:53:35] <malcom2073_> My next printer maybe I'll switch to AC, AC scared me a bit
[13:53:36] <malcom2073_> it hurts a lot more :P
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[13:53:58] <Jymmm> Nuh uh
[13:55:22] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: Come on man, haven't you watch the movies where they have the guy tied to a box spring, one jumper cab;e attached to the spring, the other to his nuts, and then a car abttery =)
[13:55:47] <malcom2073_> lol
[13:57:25] <Jymmm> malcom2073_: or licked a 9V battery to see if it's still good?
[13:57:42] <malcom2073_> Heh, that's nothing. lick an exposed wall outlet :P
[13:57:56] <malcom2073_> 12v, 24, they can catch ire. 110v can hurt.
[13:58:03] <Jymmm> Sounds like soemthing Kelso would do =)
[13:58:14] <malcom2073_> Yep
[13:58:52] <Jymmm> We had 110VAC relay logic, I loved wiring up that shit.
[13:59:25] <Jymmm> It's the 440 3ph @ 200A that scared the shit out of me =)
[13:59:41] <malcom2073_> heh
[13:59:45] <malcom2073_> Fortunatly I don't have any of that here.
[14:00:25] <Jymmm> These was the PS for 600W/inch UV lights, 6ft long.
[14:01:16] <Jymmm> I never saw aluminum melt so fast when one of the blowers failed.
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[14:44:27] <lair82> Hello guys, pcw_home, you around?
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[15:14:50] <pcw_home> Yes
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[15:21:38] <lair82> I just shot you an email with some pages from the fanuc manual about that spindle encoder. Just wondering which card you were recommending based off of the manual.
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[15:38:06] <pcw_home> Its a bit hard to tell but it looks like thats just a TTL level encoder, but this needs to be checked with a voltmeter
[15:39:56] <pcw_home> Fanuc often uses single ended signals with one return wire per signal.
[15:39:58] <pcw_home> You may find the the RA and RB wires simply connect to 0V in the encoder
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[16:07:15] <lair82> ohm out the RA, RB, and 0V to see if they are connected?
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[16:15:12] <pcw_home> Yes
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[16:16:59] <archivist> are all the differential encoders ttl or just some?
[16:17:46] <pcw_home> As far as I know they are (there are 24V single ended ones)
[16:18:39] <pcw_home> But Fanuc normally uses RX as return wire names so probably just ground
[16:18:54] <archivist> I have a 12-24 single, and a 5v differential which is happily used as a single too
[16:21:59] <skunkworks> I have used diff as ttl often..
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[16:35:02] norbert is now known as norbert__
[16:36:23] <Connor> pcw_home: I'm planning on using the PC's 12v supply as field voltage on the 7i76. Does the 7i76 protect against back emf when used with Relays? Discussion going on about using PC power supplies on the emc-users list.
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[16:38:28] <lair82> Ok, sounds good, I will check that out and see what I come up with. If this is the case, I can run that into a 7i73 couldn't I?
[16:40:29] <jdh> buy a cheap 24v switcher. Opens up lots of other parts opportunities
[16:40:54] <Connor> jdh: Out of room.
[16:41:00] <pcw_home> The output drivers have back emf protection (~40V zeners that keep the in MOSFETs on at ~40V until the inductive energy is absorged)
[16:41:01] <jdh> move the peecee!
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[16:41:44] <Connor> pcw_home: so, no need for flyback diodes on relay coils then ?
[16:41:57] <pcw_home> if you have more than ~60 mA loads or fast switching you need a flyback diode across the relay coil
[16:44:22] <pcw_home> Since the output MOSFETs dissipate the inductive energy if no flyback diode is
[16:44:23] <pcw_home> present there's a limit to the built in zener --> gatedriver protection
[16:45:43] <pcw_home> lair82: I would not suggest using the 7I73 inputs fro the spindle encoder (not designed for that service)
[16:45:56] <Connor> JQX-13F @12v 0.075Amps
[16:47:02] <pcw_home> yeah needs a flyback
[16:48:02] <Connor> 1N4004 be good ?
[16:48:07] <Connor> 1AMP 400v ?
[16:52:07] <archivist> 1N4004 is a bit slow
[16:53:13] <Connor> The only others I have are low power switching diaodes.
[16:53:18] <Connor> diodes
[16:54:31] <Connor> I hate back EMF..
[16:54:45] <archivist> switches are faster than the run of the mill rectifiers, then there are the Schottky Barrier Rectifier types
[16:56:30] <Connor> Honesty, I can't tell what these are.. they're marked.. but I can't read it..
[16:56:33] <Connor> so damn small.
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[17:01:21] <archivist> 1N5819 is good enough for catching emf on 12v
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[17:45:35] <zeeshan> HAHA
[17:45:39] <zeeshan> go on wolframalpha.com
[17:45:44] <zeeshan> and write "adolf hitler curve"
[17:45:52] <zeeshan> wow i cant believe someone dedicated a math function
[17:46:06] <zeeshan> too much free time
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[18:06:07] <lair82> pcw_home, is that where the 422ENC card comes in?
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[19:19:29] <VeiledSpectre> He everyone, I have a question that is x-posted form #embedded because they said it was semi appropriate here. Im looking at some RT communications information and there is a spec that mentions that the "bus cycle" of the spec is required to be less than 1 ms, but that the jitter time has to be less than 1 us. Is jitter a technical term for the deviation of the period (phase shift) or does it refer to something else?
[19:20:21] <VeiledSpectre> Also Im looking at how feasible an RT implementation of linux would be at meeting such timing requirements... from my readings RT linux can get down into the <100 us range, but the min-max drift between userpace latency cant be large...
[19:21:02] <VeiledSpectre> so some implementations on certain hardware might average 5 us userspace latency , with a min of say 3, but a max of say 34.5 us...
[19:21:31] <VeiledSpectre> that means the total drift would be 31.5 us between min to max userspace latency
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[19:35:20] <tjtr33> toastydeath, re: exact constraint kins design
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mechanical-engineering/2-76-multi-scale-system-design-fall-2004/readings/reading_l3.pdf
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[19:36:14] <tjtr33> and for the whole book, powells in WA has one used for sale
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[20:45:10] <Deejay> gn8
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[20:53:18] <_methods> http://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM
[20:53:37] <_methods> those questions and comments lol
[20:53:39] <_methods> classic
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[21:06:54] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yea according to the service manual, machines fitted with the acramatic 850sx are rated 11kw (15hp) machine tool duty, and 9kw (12hp) continuous duty
[21:07:55] <PetefromTn_> nice..
[21:08:02] <PetefromTn_> Do you have three phase power there?
[21:08:19] <ssi> no :(
[21:08:48] <PetefromTn_> then you are going to have to derate a much higher HP spindle drive or buy a rotary phase converter
[21:08:53] <ssi> yeah I know
[21:09:34] <PetefromTn_> not sure what the pracitical limitations are for derating three phase VFD's to single phase operation.
[21:09:37] <ssi> I think it's alreayd an encoder too
[21:10:08] <ssi> my understanding is that a 15hp VFD has input power components (caps+diodes) that are sized for 15hp worth of KVA spread across three phases
[21:10:11] <PetefromTn_> I was under the impression that 10HP was about all I can run here.
[21:10:22] <_methods> probably only 3hp on vfd
[21:10:31] <_methods> i have one that will supposedly do 5hp
[21:10:31] <ssi> and so operating single phase, that one phase's input power compeonets see a much higher current
[21:10:38] <_methods> but i'm pretty sure that's BS
[21:10:45] <_methods> single to 3 phase
[21:10:51] <PetefromTn_> my machine is running single phase at 7.5 HP with a 15HP VFD
[21:11:13] <ssi> I'm not crazy about the idea of getting a 30hp vfd :P
[21:11:34] <_methods> no rotary phase at all?
[21:11:36] <PetefromTn_> and you will probably not like the price either
[21:11:39] <PetefromTn_> nope
[21:11:45] <ssi> I could get one
[21:11:45] <PetefromTn_> single phase right from the wall.
[21:11:46] <ssi> maybe I oughta
[21:11:50] <_methods> you're running 15hp?
[21:11:54] <_methods> how many amps?
[21:11:56] <ssi> I'm not running anything yet :)
[21:12:17] <PetefromTn_> no 7.5 HP from a 15hp vfd sensorless vector
[21:12:44] <ssi> his is a 7.5hp motor too
[21:12:49] <_methods> interesting
[21:12:54] <ssi> mine may be a 12hp motor
[21:13:08] <ssi> I need to pull teh spindle cover and look at everything
[21:13:21] <PetefromTn_> I spoke to Machmotion about it and the guy I spoke to said that they had run up to 10 HP that way.
[21:13:43] <ssi> does your machine have a chiller?
[21:13:45] <PetefromTn_> They even make a single phase input 10HP VFD
[21:14:00] <PetefromTn_> nope but I understand some came with them.
[21:14:04] <ssi> mine has it
[21:14:12] <ssi> it's a coolant chiller I guess?
[21:14:14] <PetefromTn_> it does have the hoses around the spindle for it tho.
[21:14:21] <PetefromTn_> spindle chiller
[21:14:47] <ssi> I see
[21:15:56] <_methods> i didn't think you could drive that much HP off a single phase input
[21:16:02] <PetefromTn_> it is either that or for thru spindle coolant
[21:16:41] <PetefromTn_> http://driveswarehouse.com/p-2125-pc1-100.aspx
[21:17:23] <ssi> _methods: they stop rating VFDs for single phase input above 3hp or so
[21:17:26] <ssi> _methods: maybe 5hp
[21:17:31] <_methods> yeah
[21:17:32] <ssi> but you can still run the bigger ones on single phase
[21:17:33] <_methods> i know
[21:17:35] <ssi> you just have to derate the
[21:17:36] <ssi> m
[21:17:37] <_methods> really
[21:17:38] <_methods> kk
[21:17:40] <_methods> thx
[21:17:40] <ssi> yeah
[21:17:56] <ssi> they just rectify everything to DC immediately
[21:18:28] <ssi> the issue is that with single phase there's more instantaneous current on the input diodes for a given load KVA
[21:18:42] <_methods> well if i can buy a cheap chinese vfd
[21:18:51] <_methods> screw it just derate
[21:18:51] <ssi> yea you can
[21:18:52] <PetefromTn_> thats why I think the practical limit is something like 10HP or so...
[21:19:03] <_methods> i thought 5hp would be pushin it
[21:19:15] <PetefromTn_> unless you have some kinda heavy duty wiring and service
[21:19:17] <_methods> good to know though
[21:19:26] <_methods> it's my garage so nope
[21:19:33] <PetefromTn_> like I said mine is 7.5 HP and SSI and Connor have heard it run several times.
[21:19:36] <_methods> the cheapest shit they could find i'm sure
[21:19:37] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I'm gonna pull 6awg on a 60a breaker
[21:19:44] <PetefromTn_> that is what I have
[21:19:54] <_methods> yeah i ran 6awg and mines on a 50a
[21:19:57] <ssi> I wonder if I should pull 4 instead
[21:20:13] <_methods> p = plenty
[21:20:26] <ssi> p? :)
[21:20:32] <_methods> p
[21:20:34] <_methods> lol
[21:20:48] <PetefromTn_> what kinda machine are you setting up>
[21:21:17] <_methods> me?
[21:21:20] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[21:21:23] <ssi> 6-3 romex is $225 for 125'
[21:21:23] <_methods> mines running my table saw
[21:21:30] <_methods> i got an old tannewitz
[21:21:32] <_methods> 5hp
[21:21:45] <PetefromTn_> three phase motor?
[21:21:58] <_methods> yeah
[21:22:15] <PetefromTn_> should be no problem
[21:22:43] <_methods> yeah i got a 5hp chinese vfd
[21:22:46] <_methods> seems to run it find
[21:22:51] <ssi> $1.19/foot for stranded 4awg
[21:23:07] <_methods> it was the only vfd i could find that stated it would take single phase at 5hp
[21:23:26] <_methods> well that wasn't like $3k
[21:23:30] <PetefromTn_> I cannot remember if mine is 6 or 4 but it is stranded
[21:23:40] <ssi> did you pull single-wire?
[21:23:41] <ssi> or romex
[21:23:44] <PetefromTn_> its pretty thick.
[21:24:05] <ssi> _methods: how much was it?
[21:24:10] <_methods> hmm
[21:24:17] <_methods> let me check
[21:24:27] <PetefromTn_> I bought a romex that had a large shielding to get to the shop from the panel then pulled single strand to the machine .
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[21:26:34] <PetefromTn_> I wonder how your spindle is setup 1-1 or 2-1 or something else
[21:27:02] <_methods> $236
[21:27:04] <_methods> for the vfd
[21:28:27] <PetefromTn_> mine was like $950.00 or something like that.
[21:28:31] <_methods> wow now they want $1200 for it
[21:28:46] <_methods> shit i should have bought 3 lol
[21:29:20] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5HP-4KW-220-250V-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-NEW-p-/260949297321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc1ca48a9
[21:30:12] <_methods> i have no idea why that is $1200 now
[21:30:21] <_methods> when i bought it it was only $200
[21:31:12] <_methods> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-INVERTER-VFD-4KW-380V-5HP-/171279712867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e1110263
[21:31:18] <_methods> same thing for $190
[21:31:21] <_methods> that's better
[21:31:56] <PetefromTn_> Sometimes I think these ebay assholes just roll the dice and hope for a sucker... problem is they usually will find one sooner or later.
[21:32:03] <_methods> yeah
[21:32:04] <CaptHindsight> ssi:
http://www.parkermotion.com/manuals/gemini/GemGVig_configuration.pdf page 25 DHALL fault on encoder/Hall can be turned on or off mismatch
[21:32:30] <_methods> i mean for $1200 i can get a real vfd
[21:32:54] <_methods> i could get a nice mits vfd for that bank
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[21:45:10] <ssi> CaptHindsight: awesome, thanks
[21:45:14] <ssi> CaptHindsight: any thoughts on the voltage issue?
[21:45:23] <ssi> I'm not really clear on how voltage works in servo setups
[21:45:49] <ssi> some stuff I've read suggests that they're constant current drives, and the voltage will end up being whatever the motor requires up to the max voltage
[21:45:53] <ssi> 170V or whatever
[21:49:09] <ssi> I still haven't managed to get details on my exact servos, but this is interesting:
[21:49:12] <ssi> http://www.wismet.com/product-details?productId=9075
[21:49:15] <ssi> that says 110V
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[22:02:52] <jdh> you got gemini drives?
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[22:06:40] <mblaszkiewicz> hey everyone
[22:06:47] <mblaszkiewicz> just lost again
[22:07:47] <mblaszkiewicz> on the forums pcw sent me some code to turn my spindle on and I don't know exactly where to put it
[22:08:25] <mblaszkiewicz> I would net hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena to the spindle enable signal
[22:08:51] <FinboySlick> mblaszkiewicz: If it's what I think, you likely need a DOS utility to flash your card.
[22:09:28] <mblaszkiewicz> I believe its for my hal file
[22:09:36] <mblaszkiewicz> I just don't see
[22:09:54] <mblaszkiewicz> a spindle enable command
[22:11:04] <FinboySlick> mblaszkiewicz: I'm probably useless to you then. I haven't had to touch HAL in any significant way yet.
[22:11:40] <mblaszkiewicz> pastebin.com/A86zj6Vy
[22:11:48] <mblaszkiewicz> thats my hale file
[22:12:00] <mblaszkiewicz> opps hal
[22:13:24] <jdh> try net spindle-enable => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[22:13:44] <jdh> and net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on
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[22:17:00] <mblaszkiewicz> No luck
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[22:17:29] <mblaszkiewicz> I placed the lines in the begining of the hal file right under the machine is enabled code lines
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[22:19:08] <jdh> did it give you errors or just no spindle on?
[22:19:47] <mblaszkiewicz> just no spindle on
[22:20:23] <mblaszkiewicz> I switched the spindle from pin 3 to pin 5 on my 7i77 card because it was suggested by pcw.
[22:20:34] <mblaszkiewicz> it was working prior to that
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[22:20:57] <mblaszkiewicz> ok restarted got an error
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[22:22:03] <mblaszkiewicz> I have hm2_5125.o.7i77.0.1.spinena does not exist
[22:22:45] <jdh> zero, not o
[22:23:17] <mblaszkiewicz> it is 0 sorry typed it wrong
[22:23:40] <mblaszkiewicz> I' m hand typing to my laptop from the cnc pc
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[22:24:58] <jdh> does it match whatever comes from halcmd show pin | grep -i spin ?
[22:25:16] <mblaszkiewiczz> back on the other pc. hold on 1 sec
[22:25:55] <mblaszkiewiczz> Debug file information: Brother_TC-211.hal:33: Pin 'hm2_5125.0.7i77.0.1.spinena' does not exist 1783 PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND Stopping realtime threads Unloading hal components
[22:26:04] <mblaszkiewiczz> Thats it exectly
[22:26:12] <mblaszkiewiczz> exactly
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[22:26:33] <ssi> jdh: yeah I have six of them
[22:27:02] <mblaszkiewiczz> six what ????
[22:27:17] <jdh> cool
[22:28:06] <jdh> with compumotor servos, they are trivial to use.
[22:28:23] <jdh> mblas: halcmd show pin | grep -i spin
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[22:28:32] <jdh> see what the enable pin name is there.
[22:28:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> ????
[22:28:43] <mblaszkiewiczz> what is that
[22:29:09] <mblaszkiewiczz> I'm really new to linux and all this
[22:30:40] <mblaszkiewiczz> where would I type that to get the info
[22:30:51] <jdh> at the command line, in a terminal window
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[22:32:59] <mblaszkiewiczz> mark@mark-desktop:~$ halcmd show pin / grep -1 spin RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2) Segmentation fault mark@mark-desktop:~$
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[22:35:11] <Rab> mblaszkiewiczz, you want a pipe | and not a forward-slash / .
[22:35:36] <mblaszkiewiczz> where is a pipe on the key board
[22:35:50] <jdh> that's not the realproblem
[22:35:51] <_methods> above enter
[22:35:57] <Rab> On my keyboard, US layout, it's Shift-backslash.
[22:36:15] <_methods> is a vertical daashed lined usually
[22:36:29] <_methods> i keep my pipe next to the keyboard
[22:36:41] <Rab> jdh, guessing you are correct.
[22:36:46] <_methods> but that's just me lol
[22:36:51] <mblaszkiewiczz> mark@mark-desktop:~$ halcmd show pin | grep -i spin RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[22:37:31] <jdh> remove the offending line from your hal file, rerun linuxcnc (with no errors) then while it is running, do the halcmd show pin
[22:37:42] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok 1 sec
[22:38:01] <jdh> (on a scale of 1-10 for advice, I'm around a 3.5)
[22:38:30] <mblaszkiewiczz> better then me
[22:41:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> http://pastebin.com/ahhTeryC
[22:41:44] <mblaszkiewiczz> that is what I got
[22:42:48] <mblaszkiewiczz> 9 bit OUT FALSE motion.spindle-on ==> spindle-on
[22:43:03] <jdh> hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
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[22:43:40] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok how do I turn it on now
[22:44:11] <jdh> when you got the pin does not exist error, where had you added the line in the hal file?
[22:44:21] <jdh> after the loadrt hm2_pci ?
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[22:45:13] <mblaszkiewiczz> line 33 in the begining of the program right after
[22:45:14] <mblaszkiewiczz> # --- MACHINE-IS-ENABLED --- net machine-is-enabled hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
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[22:46:26] <mblaszkiewiczz> so yes it is after that
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[22:46:49] <jdh> add it back and restart.
[22:47:36] <mblaszkiewiczz> same error
[22:48:09] <jdh> and the hm2 stuff looks pretty much like teh line above it?
[22:48:44] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt trivkins loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES loadrt probe_parport loadrt hostmot2 loadrt hm2_pci config=" num_encoders=6 num_pwmgens=0 num_3pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=0 sserial_port_0=000xxxxx "
[22:48:56] <mblaszkiewiczz> yikes 1 sec
[22:49:05] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt trivkins
[22:49:15] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES
[22:49:25] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt probe_parport
[22:49:32] <jdh> yeah
[22:49:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt hostmot2
[22:49:43] <mblaszkiewiczz> loadrt hm2_pci config=" num_encoders=6 num_pwmgens=0 num_3pwmgens=0 num_stepgens=0 sserial_port_0=000xxxxx "
[22:49:44] <jdh> I mean teh net machine-is-enabled line
[22:50:09] <mblaszkiewiczz> net machine-is-enabled hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03 net spindle-enamble => hm2_5125.0.7i77.0.1.spinena net spindle-enable <=motion.spindle-on
[22:50:19] <mblaszkiewiczz> those are the 3 lines
[22:50:31] <mblaszkiewiczz> net machine-is-enabled hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-03
[22:50:41] <jdh> so, remove the line, restart linuxcnc so it has no errors.
[22:50:41] <mblaszkiewiczz> net spindle-enamble => hm2_5125.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[22:50:49] <mblaszkiewiczz> net spindle-enable <=motion.spindle-on
[22:51:09] <mblaszkiewiczz> ojk removed again
[22:51:13] <mblaszkiewiczz> opps ok
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[22:51:47] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok clean restart
[22:52:08] <jdh> then in the other terminal halcmd net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[22:53:42] <mblaszkiewiczz> halcmd net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[22:54:04] <mblaszkiewiczz> mark@mark-desktop:~$ halcmd net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena <commandline>:0: Pin 'motion.spindle-on' was already linked to signal 'spindle-on'
[22:54:32] <jdh> halcmd net spindle-enable hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[22:55:08] <jdh> just get rid of the motion.part
[22:55:27] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok took it
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[22:55:51] <mblaszkiewiczz> no motion
[22:56:24] <jdh> show pin spindle-enable
[22:56:38] <jdh> err, that probably doesn't work
[22:56:58] <mblaszkiewiczz> mark@mark-desktop:~$ halcmd net spindle-enable motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena <commandline>:0: Pin 'motion.spindle-on' was already linked to signal 'spindle-on'
[22:57:15] <mblaszkiewiczz> The program 'show' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install nmh
[22:57:17] <mblaszkiewiczz> opps
[22:57:27] <jdh> halcmd show
[22:57:47] <jdh> but, it's not a pin so I assume that won't work
[22:58:33] <jdh> so if you enable the machine and tell it to turn on the spindle, the enable pin doesn't turn on?
[22:58:51] <mblaszkiewiczz> nothing
[22:59:06] <mblaszkiewiczz> I don't know if it does or doesn't
[22:59:28] <jdh> enable the machine, tell it to turn the spindle
[22:59:38] <jdh> then halcmd show pin hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[23:00:23] <mblaszkiewiczz> Owner Type Dir Value Name 12 bit IN FALSE hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena <== spindle-enable
[23:00:49] <jdh> halcmd setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena TRUE ?
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[23:01:20] <mblaszkiewiczz> when I try to start it the hal meteer still has a false to the spindle enable signal
[23:01:52] <jdh> that's certainly easier to look at than typing the above :)
[23:02:03] <mblaszkiewiczz> <commandline>:0: pin 'hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena' is connected to a signal
[23:02:12] <jdh> yeah
[23:02:20] <jdh> you need to wait for a 5 :)
[23:02:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> a five what ???
[23:03:07] <jdh> (on a scale of 1-10 for advice, I'm around a 3.5)
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[23:04:10] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok
[23:04:16] <mblaszkiewiczz> thanks anyways
[23:04:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> I might just but it back to pin 3 and live with it that way
[23:05:16] <jdh> I assume the pin 5 makes it mostly automatic
[23:05:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> pin 5 is switchable on and off per pcw
[23:05:38] <jdh> otherwise one pin should be as good as another
[23:06:03] <mblaszkiewiczz> pin 0-4 are automatically turned on when the system is started
[23:06:18] <jdh> then 5 would definitely be better
[23:06:47] <mblaszkiewiczz> If I can't get it to spin then 3 might be a better option
[23:08:10] <mblaszkiewiczz> 15 years of running and programming cnc machines, a couple months trying to make on work with linux. I am soooooo lost on all the command line and code
[23:08:22] <mblaszkiewiczz> make one work
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[23:08:52] <jdh> the programming and running part is pretty unrelated to this.
[23:09:12] <mblaszkiewiczz> yup I found that out the hard way
[23:09:22] <mblaszkiewiczz> but the machine was such a deal
[23:09:40] <mblaszkiewiczz> I never thought it would be this crazy to get it running
[23:10:01] <mblaszkiewiczz> it looked and sounded easier reading through the old posts on linux cnc
[23:10:19] <jdh> if you know what it does, it is easy
[23:10:49] <mblaszkiewiczz> I know what my car does, but not ready to rip the tranny out and rebuild it
[23:13:01] <mblaszkiewiczz> at the time I got this machine I could have gotton a mori with g-code and a rs-232 for 2 grand more. only thing was I would have had to cut the header out of my doors and a foot of sheeting on the house to get it in
[23:13:29] <mblaszkiewiczz> I think I should have got the sawz-all out hehehehehe
[23:13:33] <jdh> what is this?
[23:13:43] <mblaszkiewiczz> a brother tc-211
[23:13:55] <mblaszkiewiczz> only conversational controller
[23:14:07] <mblaszkiewiczz> and really not great for milling
[23:14:24] <mblaszkiewiczz> its designed to drill and tap at extreme high speed
[23:14:33] <jdh> BROTHER TC-211 CNC TAPPING CENTER
[23:14:45] <mblaszkiewiczz> the spindle and z axis can inter lock for 2000 rpm tapping
[23:14:52] <mblaszkiewiczz> yup thats it
[23:15:32] <mblaszkiewiczz> planning on doing 3d artist milling of aluminum on it
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[23:16:16] <mblaszkiewiczz> I got the machine for a steal $1500.00 running and complete with a manual
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[23:17:41] <PCW> you are using two 7i77 outputs to enable the spindle so you need to either wire motion.spindle.on to both
[23:17:43] <PCW> or use the channel 5 enable output instead of the field I/O you are currently using to enable the spindle hardware
[23:18:28] <mblaszkiewiczz> just the one 7i77 pete
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[23:18:44] <mblaszkiewiczz> I think
[23:19:34] <mblaszkiewiczz> http://pastebin.com/ahhTeryC
[23:19:45] <mblaszkiewiczz> thats the hal file I believe
[23:20:07] <mblaszkiewiczz> nope sorry
[23:20:13] <mblaszkiewiczz> 1 sec I'll re post it
[23:21:20] <PCW> what do you have wired to the spindle drive hardware to enable the spindle?
[23:22:06] <mblaszkiewiczz> http://pastebin.com/P34UWZVx
[23:22:44] <mblaszkiewiczz> it is wired to channel 5 the same as it was wired to channel 3 prior
[23:23:11] <mblaszkiewiczz> I just moved the wiring clips ?? over to 5
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[23:25:51] <mblaszkiewiczz> any ideas
[23:26:26] <mblaszkiewiczz> I was hoping to make some chips this weekend :)
[23:26:46] <PCW> yeah you dont have spinena connected to anything
[23:27:03] <mblaszkiewiczz> Ok how do I connect it to something
[23:29:31] <PCW> first the spindle enable output is on TB5 (pins 21 and 22)
[23:29:40] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok
[23:30:29] <mblaszkiewiczz> so
[23:30:37] <mblaszkiewiczz> net spindle-enamble => hm2_5125.0.7i77.0.21.spinena
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[23:30:59] <PCW> not sure why you are making a new signal
[23:31:30] <mblaszkiewiczz> I'm really bad with linux. just trying to figure it out but, all greek to me
[23:32:11] <PCW> this is not really linux but rather Hal
[23:32:44] <mblaszkiewiczz> closer to farsi then ???????
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[23:33:10] <PCW> if you look at line 259 in your hal file, thats the current connection to motion.spindle.enable
[23:33:32] <mblaszkiewiczz> ok
[23:33:40] <PCW> sorry motion.spindle.on
[23:34:20] <mblaszkiewiczz> do I have to put an enable before it ???
[23:35:11] <PCW> but its not connected anywhere else you only have one pin from linuxcnc that turns on the spindle and its called motion.spindle.on
[23:36:03] <mblaszkiewiczz> how do I make channel 5 active then
[23:36:31] <PCW> so that needs to be connected to hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[23:36:35] <mblaszkiewiczz> or should I just change it back to channel 3
[23:37:13] <PCW> 3 is bad since it means the spindle is enabled anytime your servo axis are enabled
[23:38:14] <mblaszkiewiczz> how would I connect it then
[23:38:34] <PCW> change line 259 to
[23:38:36] <PCW> net spindle-on <= motion.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[23:39:00] <Connor> okay. Question.. AC Switch. Has 4-Pole Single throw. Will be using it for 2 AC-120v Split phase devices.. Do I want to break both the HOT and Neutral, or just the Hot ?
[23:40:32] <mblaszkiewiczz> Thank you :)
[23:40:39] <mblaszkiewiczz> my spindle works again
[23:40:42] <mblaszkiewiczz> yeah
[23:41:06] <PCW> are you using pins 21 and 22 as the spindle enable?
[23:41:45] <PCW> (TB5 pins 21 and 22 I mean. that's their intended usage)
[23:42:36] <mblaszkiewiczz> it is wired the same as all the other servos
[23:43:36] <mblaszkiewiczz> and I can't remember how it was done. I just followed your wiring instructions
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[23:44:29] <PCW> setting hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena true does 2 things:
[23:44:31] <PCW> it enables the analog output on channel 5 _and_ it turns on the OPTOCoupler (TB5 pins 21 and 22)
[23:44:32] <PCW> channel 5 is meant for spindle so is independent of the servo axis
[23:47:20] <mblaszkiewiczz> Ok as long as it works. I tried a tool change and it oriented fine.
[23:47:49] <mblaszkiewiczz> just need to write a sub or something and get the tool changer to actually rotate
[23:48:13] <mblaszkiewiczz> and hook up the colant pump
[23:48:13] <PCW> did pncconf select channel 3 for spindle?
[23:48:22] <mblaszkiewiczz> that should be real easy
[23:48:28] <mblaszkiewiczz> no I did
[23:49:24] <mblaszkiewiczz> I just put everything in line how it came off the machine mother board. z axis, x axis, y axis spindle / Channels 0, 1, 2, 3
[23:49:27] <PCW> I probably need more emphasis in the 7I77 manual that channel 5 should be used for spindle
[23:50:11] <mblaszkiewiczz> I am just extatic that I can make some chips now.
[23:50:37] <mblaszkiewiczz> nothing fancy just a piece of scrap material and some old mills to move around for now
[23:51:32] <mblaszkiewiczz> If your ever in CT look me up I'll buy ya a beer. hell a buy you a bunch of beers and a steak dinner to go with it
[23:52:28] <PCW> haven't been on the east coast on ages...
[23:52:33] <PCW> in ages
[23:52:42] <mblaszkiewiczz> well about time to come back here
[23:53:23] <PCW> glad is finally working (or at least limping along)
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[23:53:47] <mblaszkiewiczz> actually planning on going to Sturgis next year. If your in the neighborhood
[23:54:28] <mblaszkiewiczz> The Machine is going to be used to make custom bike covers and stuff.
[23:54:44] <PCW> Ahh
[23:55:25] <mblaszkiewiczz> As nice as it is to get it going, its only a temp machine. When I can afford it going to get something a little more mordern
[23:55:30] <PCW> I haven't been on a motorcycle in at least 20 years, too old and brittle :-)
[23:55:57] <mblaszkiewiczz> so fly out drive in and just look around
[23:56:51] <mblaszkiewiczz> well I gotta go. 8:00 here and I have to go meet someone
[23:57:00] <mblaszkiewiczz> thanks again for all the help
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