#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-02

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[00:00:21] <PetefromTn_> The reason I am asking is that I have yet to conquer the Z axis issue I have
[00:00:32] <PCW> with those limits if the PID output is +10 you will get +10V out
[00:00:56] <PCW> (and -10V with -10)
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[00:01:07] <PetefromTn_> I cannot set the max rapid more than about half of the X and Y max IPM or when it comes DOWN the column I will occasionally get a fault.
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[00:01:55] <PetefromTn_> If I keep it around half the X and Y it works fine. This is actually plenty fast but I would like to know that it is working correctly and that max rapid is available in the future.
[00:02:38] <PetefromTn_> It is curious that is faults on the way down and not the way up. I can set the Z mad rapid for 700 plus and rapiding UP the column it just rips right up there but when I try to go down it faults.
[00:03:09] <PetefromTn_> Curiously enough it is not when it STOPS that it faults rather it is mid travel.
[00:03:40] <PetefromTn_> My friend Art seems to feel that it is a tuning issue but I am not good at tuning so I have no earthly idea how to remedy it.
[00:05:05] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks: I have the camview tab working in Axis on Wheezy
[00:05:27] <CaptHindsight> I'll update the wiki with a clear howto
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[00:05:58] <PetefromTn_> is that for a spindle mounted camera SWEET!
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[00:07:00] <CaptHindsight> yeah, just video for now, will add the crosshairs and auto home next
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[00:08:07] <CaptHindsight> then maybe some image enhancement and auto edge detection
[00:08:35] <PetefromTn_> Awesome... I know Connor has one and was asking about that awhile back. Way to go man!!
[00:10:26] <mblaszkiewicz> ok got to 140 and got vibrations on x, backed down to 135. Is that correct
[00:12:16] <CaptHindsight> having it recognize parts and orient them will make pick-n-place easy with Linuxcnc
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[00:23:01] <PCW> might want to go down to 100 or so for some margin
[00:24:22] <mblaszkiewicz> down to 110 on a long run it vibrated a bit
[00:24:47] <mblaszkiewicz> when I run the hal scope now nothing comes if for f-error
[00:24:55] <PCW> so maybe 80 then you adjust FF1 (in your case it should be close to one say between .5 and 1.5)
[00:25:20] <PCW> you have to scale ferror so you see it
[00:25:29] <PCW> bbl
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[00:59:56] <mblaszkiewicz> ok back again
[01:00:32] <mblaszkiewicz> anyone know how to turn on port 5 on a 7i77
[01:00:55] <mblaszkiewicz> I changed my spindle over now it wont start :(
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[01:05:43] <jdh> 19:54 < PCW> analog out 5 has a hal pin (might be called spinenable, dont
[01:05:54] <jdh> dmesg | grep -i spin
[01:06:00] <jdh> might turn up something
[01:14:47] <tjtr33> a vfd puts out 3 phases of variable amplitude. It can have single phase input.
[01:14:48] <tjtr33> can it be used to replace a 3 phase transformer? maybe drive a 3 phase transformer?
[01:16:27] <jdh> what's on the other side of the transformer?
[01:16:34] <tjtr33> big bridge for edm
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[01:16:58] <tjtr33> not a motor
[01:17:43] <jdh> dunno. seems like an rpc would work fine
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[01:18:37] <tjtr33> vfd cheap, clean & small too. 5hp motor maybe more $ than vfd
[01:18:46] <jdh> yeah and louder
[01:19:05] <tjtr33> but i love the idea of a pull start edm machine :)
[01:19:32] <zeeshan> variable voltage and frequency
[01:19:38] <tjtr33> yeah!
[01:19:38] <zeeshan> :D
[01:20:09] <zeeshan> you can find older 240v 3 phase motors for relatively cheap
[01:20:52] <jdh> A phase converting VFD must never be used to power a wire EDM because it contains electronics, thus capacitive loads. The PWM voltage of a VFD will damage these
[01:21:24] <zeeshan> did i misread something
[01:21:31] <zeeshan> i thought he was trying to drive a 5 hp motor
[01:21:44] <jdh> I assumed the 5hp fwas for teh RPC
[01:21:48] <zeeshan> OH
[01:21:54] * zeeshan needs glasses
[01:22:18] <tjtr33> ? the vfd would drives a traf, the 2ndry is isolated, what does it know about the load? wether its a stereo or canopener or edm?
[01:22:50] <tjtr33> and not wedm anyway
[01:22:54] <zeeshan> its been a while since i did phasors
[01:22:56] <jdh> http://phasetechnologies.com/phaseconverterinfo/phaseconverter_app_wireedm.htm
[01:23:08] <zeeshan> but you want to try to drive inductive loads only with vfds
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[01:24:07] <tjtr33> jdh i see whatthey say, but dont see their reasoning.
[01:24:23] <tjtr33> zeeshan, yes i need to look at the inductiveload idea
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[01:26:13] <tjtr33> hey thx! good info
[01:27:26] <Tom_itx> do they use those same digital phase converters on windmills and other power generating device to connect to mains?
[01:34:20] <tjtr33> dunno, but browsing 'digital phase converters' is a whole different price range than vfd's!
[01:35:18] <tjtr33> btw, jdh's url suggested 'digital phase converters' were suited to this application ( again thx!)
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[01:36:51] <Tom_itx> more costly?
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[01:45:34] <zeeshan> i think another name for "digital phase converters"
[01:45:36] <zeeshan> is inverters :P
[01:45:54] <zeeshan> ive seen the diy people use inverters with their wind mills
[01:49:56] <zeeshan> son of a
[01:50:08] <zeeshan> i accidently put my stock size to .5 instead of .625
[01:50:24] <zeeshan> first pass removed like .100 doc out of tool steel
[01:50:25] <zeeshan> whoops
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[02:34:56] <skunkworks> CaptHindsight: cool! I can test it soon
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[02:59:11] <zeeshan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlKatLB8vVY&list=UUy-Z-COl0WvPmSLXMOvtedg
[02:59:29] <zeeshan> anyone know why a 0.020" doc .006fpr, 100sfm
[02:59:37] <zeeshan> would chatter this bad
[02:59:42] <zeeshan> and the work piece really hot too
[02:59:51] <pcw_home> mblaszkiewicz: hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
[02:59:53] <pcw_home> halcmd show pin | grep spin would work
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[03:48:54] <XXCoder> pretty awesome http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140928-nanosteel-announces-crack-free-dense-steel-powder-for-your-3d-metal-printer.html
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[03:59:45] <wear> zeeshan, it looks like rigidity to me, if you did that exact same test with a live center in the rear of part, it would be just fine, the length of the bar probably is creating a small resonance vibration in the whipping of the metal.
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[06:23:45] <zeeshan> wear makes sense
[06:23:52] <zeeshan> unfortuantely i couldnt use a live center
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[06:50:01] <MrSunshine> zeeshan, center or sharper tools ... looks like you use carbide .. carbide requires alot more force than hss tools to cut .. on small pieces like that atleast i would guess it will rub ALOT
[06:50:23] <MrSunshine> a nice sharp hss tool i think would improve the situation =)
[06:51:10] <zeeshan> i increased the depth of cut
[06:51:16] <zeeshan> and really increased the speed
[06:51:20] <zeeshan> and the chatter went away
[06:51:21] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/JwTfKUx.jpg
[06:51:30] <zeeshan> thats what i was making
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[06:53:03] <Deejay> moin
[06:53:18] <MrSunshine> so you introduced more force .. and carbide if im not mistaking wants alot of speed =)
[06:53:53] <MrSunshine> thing int he movie it looks like a real shallow depth ... and with the radius inserted tools has on the inserts that would result in alot of rubbing if you do not overcome that radius on the toolbit
[06:54:13] <zeeshan> so your esaying
[06:54:17] <MrSunshine> if you have a 0.02mm radius the aboslute minimum depth of cut would be 0.02 i guess ... =)
[06:54:18] <zeeshan> i should use a smaller nose radius
[06:54:30] <zeeshan> that does make sense
[06:54:51] <zeeshan> wow that actually makes a lotta snse
[06:54:57] <zeeshan> the nose radius was 0.016"
[06:55:09] <zeeshan> and if i take less than 0.016" cuts, it rubs
[06:55:17] <zeeshan> if i take 0.030 or larger, it likes it
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[06:56:00] <MrSunshine> thats why hss usaly can take those fine cuts .. ofc ground carbide tools can also but =)
[06:56:10] <MrSunshine> they usaly dont have those corner radiuses like that
[06:56:45] <zeeshan> i mostly have vnmg 331 and 332
[06:56:58] <zeeshan> 33x , where x = 1 = 0.016" radius
[06:57:03] <zeeshan> 2 = double that
[06:57:15] <zeeshan> i should try vnmg330.5
[06:57:20] <zeeshan> its got a nose radius of 0.008
[06:57:22] <MrSunshine> http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeedsBasics2.htm it talks about mills but essentialy the same problem .. and some illustrations =)
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[06:58:20] <zeeshan> http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/CutEdgeRadius1.jpg
[06:58:25] <zeeshan> that image is what youre talking about
[06:58:44] <MrSunshine> yeap =)
[06:59:43] <MrSunshine> and with a radius on the end you can understand why the tool needs alot of force to hold it in the material? so small pieces will bend and flex easily under those forces =)
[07:00:56] <archivist> and a small radius will wear faster, hobsons choice
[07:02:17] <zeeshan> yea but i guess it's needed for what i was making
[07:02:20] <zeeshan> dinky little parts :()
[07:02:58] <archivist> huge parts
[07:04:07] <zeeshan> huge in comparison to clock parts!
[07:05:03] <archivist> to watch parts :), or even Ford speedo gears
[07:05:24] <MrSunshine> archivist, true that =)
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[07:52:38] <ReadError> hey guys
[07:52:43] <ReadError> what are those lasers called...
[07:52:49] <ReadError> it doesnt have a tube
[07:52:53] <ReadError> its like a module
[07:53:02] <syyl> diode laser?
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[07:56:17] <ReadError> maybe yea
[07:56:24] <ReadError> I know theres some that can cut thinner stuff
[07:59:13] <Jymmm> ReadError: thinner what?
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[08:02:56] <ReadError> Jymmm maybe some kapton for stencils
[08:02:59] <ReadError> or light ply
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[08:34:13] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF4HG6v29UY
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[08:38:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGwleH913zs
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[09:55:15] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[10:04:02] <Loetmichel> *gnah, i'm too dumb to tip over a bucket of water... just wanted to strip a wire and in the process i pulled it out of the xh-plug, and the contact at the end stripped a 1,5mm wide and 1,5mm deep stripe of skin off my finger... and it bleeds like crazy, already seeped thru the second bandaid :-(
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[12:33:20] <jdh> OSHA recordable
[12:34:12] <Jymmm> ?
[12:35:30] <Jymmm> jdh: What do you mean the 5000gal proane tank can't be stored near the blast furnacne?!
[12:35:31] <jdh> we would have to turn on our red safety light, the bandaid would be first-aid so it would be an OSHA recordable safety event and our I&I rate would go up
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[12:38:26] <Jymmm> jdh: I have nfc what Loetmichel is doing with wire stripping and water buckets. But, with blood floating i the water, no need to turn on red light
[12:39:29] <Jymmm> jdh: ...and, could just had the bleeder a botle of crazy glue, not first aid =)
[12:39:57] <Jymmm> hand*
[12:40:57] <Jymmm> jdh: Oh, are hawaiian spears holllow or solid aluminum?
[12:41:52] <jdh> spring steel
[12:42:18] <jdh> unless you mean a pole spear then they are usually fiberglass
[12:42:58] <Jymmm> Aluminum http://www.makospearguns.com/product-p/mtps.htm
[12:43:23] <jdh> that's a pole spear, not a hawaiian
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[12:43:32] <Jymmm> Tey are emphisizing painful fiberglass splinters =)
[12:44:06] <jdh> never had any, but I have seen poles with splintering glass
[12:44:31] <Jymmm> Yeah, just the thought of that creeps me out
[12:44:54] <jdh> I have 5 or so pole spears, one of which is aluminum (foldspear.com)
[12:45:16] <Jymmm> hollow?
[12:45:54] <jdh> it's hollow with bungie in the middle. snaps together like a tent pole
[12:46:28] <Jymmm> ah, shock cord in the middle?
[12:47:58] <jdh> http://www.foldspear.com/store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=5
[12:50:37] <jdh> http://wilmington.craigslist.org/tls/4693491339.html
[12:50:49] <jdh> $1200 seems excessive for that.
[12:51:36] <Jymmm> willing to trade it seems
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[13:24:22] <Jymmm> I really like this constrictor knot https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ppFgEyra_r8#t=70
[13:25:31] <jdh> 12x36 also seems to be less good than 14x36
[13:25:38] <jdh> Z: what is your POS lathe?
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[14:00:58] <Loetmichel> jdh: i have my own personal package of bandaid in my drawer... woe would not be able to work if i had to record every incident where i needed one to the german "osha"...
[14:01:00] <Loetmichel> :;-)
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[14:05:33] <Loetmichel> iand the water bucket was a german proverb i translatet 1:1... it meant "to be very dumb"
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[15:33:15] <zeeshan> jdh: 12x36
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[15:58:07] <zeeshan> man
[15:58:13] <zeeshan> thjis compliance tensor is a 36x36!
[15:58:22] <zeeshan> whoops wrong chan
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[16:18:14] <jdh> you bought both ballscrwes/etc for your 12x36? cheap?
[16:20:09] <zeeshan> yea like $270 shipped
[16:23:33] <jdh> how much space does it take up?
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[16:37:33] * JT-Shop just needs some closed cell foam to complete the AC project
[16:39:45] <SpeedEvil> AC?
[16:40:29] <jdh> anonymous coward
[16:40:37] * SpeedEvil needs another 30m^3 of foam to complete his AC project.
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[16:42:29] <zeeshan> jdh what do you mean
[16:42:32] <zeeshan> the machine itself?
[16:43:18] <jdh> yes. if I put it against a wall, how mcuh wall space (minimum)
[16:43:56] <JT-Shop> I'm prepping the outside for siding so I had to take the Air Conditioner out of the wall while I wrapped the opening and framed it out with trim
[16:44:05] <jdh> snow there yet?
[16:44:08] <zeeshan> like 3 feet
[16:44:19] <jdh> it's a 36" bed
[16:44:36] <zeeshan> im talking about
[16:44:38] <zeeshan> in the X direction
[16:44:49] <zeeshan> in the Z direction about 6 feet
[16:45:03] <zeeshan> i can get measurements when im home tonight
[16:47:11] <roycroft> grizzly list the dimensions of their 12x36 as 67" wide x 29-1/2" deep
[16:47:26] <roycroft> and recommend 30" clearance behind the lathe for maintenance access
[16:47:30] <roycroft> if that helps
[16:47:43] <zeeshan> lies
[16:47:51] <zeeshan> jk
[16:48:02] <zeeshan> i used to have my lathe right against the wall in the back
[16:48:08] <zeeshan> i could never open the factory electrical panel :P
[16:48:13] <roycroft> as far as maintenance clearence, that depends on the operator
[16:48:22] <roycroft> if you're young and svelt, maybe 24" is enough
[16:48:27] <roycroft> if you're old and fat you might need 48"
[16:48:36] <zeeshan> or you can just move the lathe
[16:48:38] <zeeshan> when you wanna do maintenance
[16:48:42] <zeeshan> and relevel :P
[16:48:48] <zeeshan> if youre so tight on space
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[16:51:03] <roycroft> i'm seriously thinking of getting a 12x36 soon
[16:51:15] <roycroft> i just have a 7x145 mini-lathe now
[16:51:22] <roycroft> 7x14
[16:51:25] <zeeshan> do you have a mill
[16:51:27] <roycroft> and it's annoying to use
[16:51:34] <roycroft> i have a mill-drill
[16:51:38] <Connor> 10x22 would probably be more than enough for me..
[16:51:51] <zeeshan> 12x36 is kind of small for me
[16:52:14] <jdh> 10x is much less mass than 12x
[16:52:17] <roycroft> the cost difference between a 10x22 and a 12x36 isn't really that great
[16:52:18] <jdh> (for chinese machines)
[16:52:21] <roycroft> and the 12x36 has a lot more mass
[16:52:44] <jdh> and ballnut clearance
[16:53:03] <Connor> My issue wouldn't be cost.. it would be space.
[16:53:17] <roycroft> yes, space is definitely an issue
[16:53:28] <roycroft> in my mind, 12x36 is an ideal size
[16:53:32] <Connor> only so much you can squeeze into a 11'x7' room
[16:53:49] <roycroft> enough mass, but moderately small size
[16:54:02] <zeeshan> i wish i could afford the clasuing colchester 21"x60"
[16:54:03] <zeeshan> =/
[16:54:08] <rythmnbls> the grizzly 12x36 needs 220v , so power can be an issue
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[16:54:26] <roycroft> 220vac is a feature
[16:54:35] <roycroft> that means it can run on lighter gauge wire
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[16:54:48] <zeeshan> why is 220 is issue
[16:54:50] <zeeshan> *an
[16:54:51] <roycroft> i have 220vac extension cords for my stationary woodworking tools already
[16:54:53] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/mill_02_26_14_02.JPG
[16:55:15] <Connor> the lathe would have to be ontop of that workbeench.
[16:55:15] <lair82> Hello Guys, PCW you listening?
[16:55:19] <roycroft> in my garage shop i have 2 20a 220vac receptacles, and a 50a 220vac receptacle for my brew system
[16:55:27] <rythmnbls> for me it would mean running a 100' extension :)
[16:55:35] <zeeshan> run it off solar power
[16:55:42] <roycroft> now my welding shop has no hard-wired power
[16:55:46] <Connor> I have a single 20amp 120 into my shop.. I need to get a 220v line hooked up.
[16:55:59] <roycroft> so i have to run a 100' extension cord out there for welding
[16:56:00] <zeeshan> connor
[16:56:02] <zeeshan> i like your bench
[16:56:05] <zeeshan> is that stainless steel?
[16:56:06] <roycroft> the extension cord is 6ga
[16:56:15] <roycroft> and it's pretty damn heavy
[16:56:30] <Connor> zeeshan: Yes. It's 7' x 40" I think.. ELEVATOR DOOR. :)
[16:56:32] <roycroft> i store it on a roll-around hose reel
[16:56:37] <zeeshan> nice dude
[16:56:57] <Connor> ontop of a I beam rack that used to hold 500lbs bombs for the USAF
[16:57:04] <zeeshan> haha
[16:57:11] <Connor> I got it from my dad.
[16:57:17] <zeeshan> that musta been fun to move
[16:57:43] <Connor> The door is hinged so it can tip up.. and it's on wheels.. so it can go through a standard 36" door
[16:58:28] <Connor> but, since only 2 of the wheels are swivel wheels.. I had to use a floor jack to raise it up and slide it into the current position.
[17:00:27] <Loetmichel> haha, my coworker just gifted me 3 t-shirts. written on them three exclamations i seem to make SO often that he could remember them for printing on thshirts well enough that he didnt take a checklist with him ;-) ( "augenmaß lässt grüßen" , "das hat der Newton da festgenagelt" and "erst sortieren, dann reden!") ... it seems i should up my vocabulary/proverb-storage a bit ;-)
[17:01:16] <Connor> Loetmichel: and those translate into English as ?
[17:03:01] <Loetmichel> Connor: being proverbs its not so easy to translate them. "augenmaß lässt grüßen" -> "measure it, dont use your eye to gauge it!" ( usually when i got the wrong size screwdriver/screw/ nut/ wrench/whatever)
[17:03:42] <Loetmichel> "das hat der newton da festgenagelt" -> "newton did nal that down there" (when something is to heavy to move)
[17:04:02] <Connor> nal = nail
[17:05:07] <Connor> You should see what Google translate does to them..
[17:05:15] <Loetmichel> "Erst sortieren, dann reden" -> "think first, talk later" ... when i AGAIN forgot the start of my sentence when reaching the end. ;-)
[17:05:20] <Connor> the last translates too.. sort first, then talk !
[17:05:54] <Loetmichel> yeah, thats about the meaning of it. Sort you thoghts, then expel them, not the other way around ;-)
[17:06:48] <Connor> We say.. put your brain in gear before putting your mouth in motion. :)
[17:08:50] <roycroft> i don't know any of those proverbs
[17:10:21] <roycroft> my favorite german proverb is "gutes bier and schne weiber sind die beste zeitvertreiber"
[17:11:40] <roycroft> (good beer and beautiful women are the best way to pass the time)
[17:11:57] <roycroft> it doesn't roll off the tongue so well in english
[17:13:19] <Connor> Measure Twice, Cut Once.
[17:13:25] <zeeshan> no
[17:13:30] <zeeshan> cut twice measure once
[17:13:56] <Connor> Measure Twice, Cut Once, take a spring pass 2nd. :)
[17:14:02] <zeeshan> haha
[17:14:09] <Loetmichel> zeeshan: "mist, drei mal abgeschnitten, IMMER noch zu kurz!" (Shit, cut three times, STILL to short!" ;-)
[17:14:17] <Loetmichel> +it
[17:14:18] <zeeshan> haha
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[17:34:29] <Jasen> Hi pete
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[18:40:02] <Connor> zeeshan: What size of ballscrews did you end up using for your 12x36 ? length and diameter ?
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[19:13:04] <zeeshan> 2505x1200 for the Z
[19:13:21] <zeeshan> using 1 fixed mount
[19:13:31] <zeeshan> BK20 i believe for that one
[19:13:46] <zeeshan> X axis was 1605-700mm
[19:13:59] <zeeshan> but my X sticks out
[19:14:06] <zeeshan> since the ball nut can't fit within the slide
[19:14:11] <zeeshan> without some major mods
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[19:14:45] <Connor> the 2505 is what pushed the price up..
[19:14:53] <zeeshan> yea
[19:14:56] <zeeshan> i wouldnt go smaller than 25mm
[19:14:58] <zeeshan> for the z
[19:15:16] <Connor> Not with that span. No
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[19:15:49] <jdh> how straight was your Z
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[19:16:39] <zeeshan> jdh: i used a dial indicator w/ a base on the carriage
[19:16:52] <zeeshan> then i clamped parallels on the ball screw
[19:16:55] <zeeshan> and thats how i did alignment
[19:16:59] <zeeshan> i get it within 5 thou
[19:17:04] <zeeshan> so it doesnt bind
[19:17:17] <zeeshan> *got
[19:17:19] <jdh> I meant the screw. how straight was it when you got it
[19:17:26] <zeeshan> pretty damn straight
[19:17:26] <zeeshan> lol
[19:17:30] <zeeshan> i didnt measure
[19:17:34] <zeeshan> i did t he roll test
[19:17:35] <zeeshan> it passed
[19:18:10] <zeeshan> my only complaint is it's not a 0 backlash screw
[19:18:16] <zeeshan> its got at least 3 thou in it
[19:18:42] <zeeshan> my Z has .0045 comp
[19:18:45] <jdh> get some balls
[19:18:46] <zeeshan> and x has 0.0025
[19:19:08] <zeeshan> how many oversize balls would i need though?
[19:19:52] <jdh> I think the 20's have 3x17
[19:20:01] <zeeshan> yea
[19:20:06] <zeeshan> but not all of them have to be oversize do they?
[19:20:10] <zeeshan> i thought it was like 3-4 of em
[19:20:17] <zeeshan> or 1 oversize ball per circuit
[19:20:26] <Connor> No. You want more than that..
[19:20:31] <Connor> at least half of them.
[19:20:32] <jdh> 1 wouldn't always be in the screw
[19:20:37] <zeeshan> good point
[19:20:41] <jdh> I'd get enough for all of them
[19:21:04] <jdh> but for $280 shipped, I wouldn't complain.
[19:21:07] <Connor> You can do 1 big for every other one.. or every two... but.. that's the least I would go
[19:21:10] <jdh> get another pari of nuts
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[19:21:54] <zeeshan> i have extra nuts
[19:22:04] <zeeshan> cause i was planning to double nut it
[19:29:52] <Connor> Why didn't you just get them with double integrated nut? Already preloaded from the factory?
[19:30:21] <zeeshan> he offers double nuts?
[19:30:30] <zeeshan> i asked him he said he only offers single nuts
[19:31:03] <Connor> I got them for 1605's and 2005's
[19:31:15] <zeeshan> pics?
[19:31:16] <zeeshan> link
[19:31:27] <Connor> Give me a few..
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[19:37:09] <Connor> www.ivdc.com/cnc/ballscrews_100214_01.jpg
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[19:38:43] <Connor> I think they're matched to the screw too..
[19:38:48] <Connor> not sure you can get them after the fact..
[19:39:00] <Connor> and, he may not have them for the 25mm size
[19:40:50] <Connor> Time go grab lunch. back in a bit
[19:42:01] <zeeshan> wow
[19:42:03] <zeeshan> those are bad ass
[19:42:09] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can use em with my screws
[19:42:18] <zeeshan> they look very similar.
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[19:44:00] <Connor> You order yours from LMB2008 from ebay ?
[19:44:07] <zeeshan> ywes
[19:44:26] <zeeshan> i would love them for my 16mm scre
[19:44:28] <Connor> okay. same guy
[19:44:29] <zeeshan> thats the most important one
[19:44:58] <Connor> You can get them for the 16mm.. you may have to get a new screw.. I'm not sure..
[19:45:09] <zeeshan> do you have the ebay link
[19:45:30] <Connor> cgxfred@aliyun.com
[19:45:35] <Connor> that's his email.
[19:45:44] <Connor> His name is Chai
[19:45:50] <zeeshan> hey dude
[19:45:55] <zeeshan> so in between those 2 nuts
[19:45:59] <zeeshan> is some sort of washer?
[19:46:18] <Connor> No.. it's a half moon shape.. that's been ground..
[19:46:35] <Connor> and fits between the nuts.. to provide the preload..
[19:46:47] <Connor> which is why I say, you may have to have them on a screw.
[19:46:56] <Connor> because.. they'll have to be "fitted" to yours.
[19:47:07] <kfoltman> backlash cancelling nuts?
[19:47:29] <Connor> kfoltman: Double nut with pre-set preload.
[19:47:42] <kfoltman> isn't that a bit overkill?
[19:48:00] <Connor> No. You get down to .0005" lash. or less.
[19:48:19] <Connor> I'll have more lash out of the flexing of the column than out of the screws. :)
[19:48:41] <kfoltman> that's what I wanted to say - 0.0005" lash as long as the rest of your setup doesn't flex at all
[19:48:42] <zeeshan> i emailed
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[19:49:02] <zeeshan> hoepfully they work w/ my screws
[19:49:04] <kfoltman> in practice, the backlash from the screw might be a tiny part of the overall backlash
[19:49:04] <Connor> Yea.. but, that''s why you do finish passes.
[19:49:21] <zeeshan> kfoltman: depends
[19:49:21] <zeeshan> :P
[19:49:25] <Connor> okay.. back in a bit. grabbing lunch
[19:49:30] <zeeshan> thanks connor
[19:50:52] <zeeshan> kfoltman: what do you think is a major contributing factor to backlash?
[19:52:34] <kfoltman> zeeshan: in my case, it's probably a super-stupid construction of the Z axis; in general case - depends, might be the materials that the gantry is made of, or worn-out/bad grade rails...
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[19:53:06] <kfoltman> spindle mount
[19:53:07] <zeeshan> i think you're confusing backlash with deflection
[19:53:38] <zeeshan> or maybe even stiction
[19:53:48] <kfoltman> deflection is temporary, backlash is permanent until you change direction, right?
[19:53:56] <zeeshan> yes
[19:54:16] <zeeshan> theres really 2 major sources of backlash
[19:54:22] <kfoltman> so, for example, a loose spindle mount can easily cause a tiny bit of backlash if the spindle moves a tiny bit if pushed in a given direction and stays there
[19:54:23] <zeeshan> your fixed support isn't really fixed
[19:54:34] <zeeshan> and the clearance between the balls in the ballnut and ball screw
[19:54:51] <zeeshan> kfoltman: yes tha tmakes sense
[19:55:11] <kfoltman> of course I'm talking about hobby grade when not all factors are well controlled
[19:55:14] <zeeshan> i was pulling hairs over this :/
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[19:57:45] <kfoltman> well, at least these days the information is available and components are affordable
[19:58:09] <kfoltman> no more drawer slide shit
[19:58:39] <zeeshan> haa
[19:58:41] <zeeshan> drawer slides :D
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[20:09:04] <tjb1> Anyone here know of a good cheap way to mark parts/fixtures?
[20:09:16] <tjb1> Giant PITA to get anything lasered where I work and most is too hard for punches
[20:09:28] <tjb1> Chem pens don't work that good either
[20:13:36] <roycroft> lift your leg?
[20:13:41] <roycroft> that's how it's done in nature
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[20:15:07] <PCW> micges-dev: thats impressive even with the little glitch, has to be a lot gentler on hardware
[20:16:33] <zeeshan> tjb1: are you making the same thing
[20:16:36] <zeeshan> again and again?
[20:16:39] <tjb1> no
[20:16:51] <zeeshan> i guess you cant use etching then
[20:17:01] <tjb1> Yeah I looked at that
[20:17:08] <tjb1> Looks like a PITA if you do different things
[20:17:15] <zeeshan> whats the hardness?
[20:17:23] <tjb1> Some stuff 61-63
[20:17:32] <zeeshan> is it possible to mark it before hardenning?
[20:17:44] <zeeshan> cause really after hardneing you only have laser, chemical etching
[20:17:44] <zeeshan> and edming
[20:18:37] <tjb1> yeah
[20:19:37] <tjb1> I dont think I can convince my boss to get us a laser for our department
[20:21:50] <Jymmm> "Lasers are so overrated, you want a 3D printer, yeah, that's it!"
[20:22:03] <tjb1> I have 2, how shall I work this out Jymmm
[20:22:17] <Jymmm> you have two what?
[20:22:53] <tjb1> 3D printers
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[20:26:04] <Jymmm> tjb1: May I suggest that you configure them in this fashion in a dual to the heated death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=j-9n2ImgJQ0#t=8
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[20:27:10] <tjb1> http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=1959
[20:27:11] <tjb1> hmm
[20:27:57] <CaptHindsight> do you have a mig or tig welder?
[20:28:10] <tjb1> Not that I am going to be able to use at work
[20:28:11] <PetefromTn_> The shop I used to work in had a little scara like robot that had an impact head that would engrave dot style letters and numbers into parts for us. worked quite well.
[20:28:19] <CaptHindsight> or a grinder?
[20:28:44] <CaptHindsight> maybe die grinder
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[20:30:21] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: Some stuff is going to require a small mark
[20:30:55] <CaptHindsight> small diamond drill
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[20:31:52] <tjb1> Don't really have access to grinder either
[20:32:00] <tjb1> Company is too big and its not really my job
[20:32:11] <tjb1> but department doesn't own the laser so getting anything done is a pain
[20:32:28] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a mess
[20:32:40] <CaptHindsight> yet they somehow make a profit there
[20:32:40] <tjb1> I see a bigger mess coming :P
[20:32:56] <tjb1> The laser belongs to producting side
[20:33:00] <tjb1> production
[20:33:35] <tjb1> Also, somehow claimed 10 hours against our department last week
[20:34:01] <tjb1> We don't even give the laser an hour of work
[20:34:29] <CaptHindsight> tjb1: what do they make there that some other company hasn't taken over yet?
[20:34:52] <tjb1> CaptHindsight: I'd say the company but I'm sure chat is logged
[20:35:12] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbgZ5IoX8Dw
[20:35:21] <tjb1> We make lathes...
[20:35:28] <tjb1> mills, grinders, workholding
[20:40:45] <CaptHindsight> when it starts to effect their profit they'll figure something out
[20:41:02] <tjb1> This problem really doesnt affect their profit
[20:41:04] <tjb1> Just wastes my time
[20:41:11] <tjb1> Not enough for them to care
[20:42:08] <CaptHindsight> I hear it all the time
[20:42:38] <CaptHindsight> don't get into trouble by trying to help
[20:43:18] <tjb1> Well depending on what happens with the hour thing, it may help my hand in getting a way for me to mark the parts myself
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[20:45:33] <tjb1> I'm sure my boss will notice when I am redesigning fixtures because I can't find the last print because no identification was placed on the fixture
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[21:04:12] <Connor> Is there a way to drive a stepper in linuxcnc without it being considered a axis ? THINK tool changer...
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[21:05:36] <Jymmm> I'm sure there has to be.
[21:05:43] <Jymmm> would only make sense.
[21:10:45] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:13:23] <PCW> you can drive it with you own position command
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[21:13:38] <PCW> (if its not a motion axis)
[21:13:56] <Connor> okay. would be using 5i25 + 7i76 with it.. I'm not familiar with position command..
[21:14:41] <PCW> you can give the stepgen a position command and it will follow it
[21:15:03] <Connor> okay. How would one go about handling "homing" it ?
[21:15:30] <PCW> you have to do that yourself
[21:16:00] <PCW> since you don't have motions homing logic available to you
[21:16:17] <Jymmm> classic ladder?
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[21:16:31] <Jymmm> or how are other tool changers doing it?
[21:16:31] <Connor> I would be doing this with remap.
[21:16:40] <Jymmm> what's "remap" ?
[21:17:11] <PCW> Use an absolute encoder and dont muck around with homing :=)
[21:17:11] <Connor> remap lets you use gcode and python stuff to remap a g code command to set of custom scripts
[21:17:21] <Jymmm> ah
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[21:17:48] <Connor> pcw That may just be the case.. Not got that far yet.
[21:17:59] <Connor> but.. generally.. steppers + encoders ??
[21:18:27] <PCW> steppers / encoders is fine
[21:18:34] <Jymmm> Connor: not if a feedback perspective
[21:18:34] <Connor> and I would only have the MPG encoder inputs available.. which.. probably would work since the carousal wouldn't be moving very fast.
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[21:19:12] <Connor> All I really need is a index...
[21:19:39] <PCW> if you used one of the those magnetic encoders (AMS) you could do it without an index
[21:20:16] <PCW> (absolute SSI 10 bit )
[21:20:34] <Jymmm> 360/spr*Num_tools
[21:20:43] <Connor> 10 to 12 tools
[21:20:46] <Jymmm> sumtin like that =)
[21:21:39] <Connor> I wrote something for a Geneva mech for Pete's Cincinnati.. But, mine will be stepper based..
[21:21:55] <kfoltman> anyone tried using linuxcnc on an odroid?
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[21:25:44] <Jymmm> Ok, so how are ppl doing tool changers now?
[21:26:17] <Connor> Jymmm: Like you said, Classic Ladder, and now remap.. Our custom program using a 2ndary controller.
[21:26:31] <Jymmm> secondary, why?
[21:26:42] <Connor> Who knows.
[21:27:12] <Jymmm> Defeats thw whole purpose of having tool changing g-code codmands
[21:27:32] <Connor> I'm working on a automated coolant nozzle.. it'll have something like a arduino to control it.. but.. will be connected via ModBus.
[21:27:32] <Jymmm> reinventing the wheel to me
[21:27:52] <Jymmm> automated, like moving into position?
[21:27:56] <Connor> Yes.
[21:28:15] <Jymmm> why go a HW route instead of a SW one?
[21:28:18] <Connor> and will know what tool is in use based on the T# M6 command
[21:28:51] <Connor> Well.. no "good" software solution to drive a hobby style servo.. for one..
[21:29:05] <Connor> for two.. I won't it to keep track of presets that you program into it..
[21:29:32] <Connor> you load a new tool.. you adjust a dial to set the coolant height to point at the tool location you want.. and you press a "store" button.
[21:30:00] <Connor> then.. everytime that tool is used.. the system will move the nozzle to that position.. or do a sweep if you've set that up..
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[21:30:40] <Jymmm> It's your bbq, but I prefer KISS method, and what you're descibing sounds too complicated and a clusterfuck in the making, and far to complex to maintain years down the road.
[21:31:05] <Jymmm> But whatever floats your boat =)
[21:31:27] <Jymmm> You know whats best for you of course.
[21:31:40] <Connor> Jymmm: By that reasoning.. CNC is complicated and would be better off with Manual Lathes and Mills.
[21:32:20] <Connor> Really.. all we're talking about is a single hobby grade servo adjusting a nozzle up and down.. and storing that position based on the current tool number loaded..
[21:32:34] <Jymmm> No, That's not what I'm saying. What you described sounds like (in essense) spaghetti code. It will be hard to maintain.
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[21:32:59] <Jymmm> Where a straight forward CL would work.
[21:33:33] <Jymmm> That's IF I'm understanding what you are saying correctly that is.
[21:33:53] <Connor> Okay.. let me try again.. cause I thought it was pretty simple.. You have a new tool.. in CLI mode you tell LinuxCNC T# M6
[21:34:00] <Connor> You load the tool.
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[21:34:19] <Jymmm> Connor: no need to explain.
[21:34:30] <Connor> you turn coolant on.. and adjust a pot or mini dial.. to set the location.. and push button.
[21:34:36] <Jymmm> It's not WHAT you are doing, it's HOW you plan on accomplishing the task
[21:34:53] <Connor> You mean, using the Arduino ?
[21:35:00] <Jymmm> for one, yes.
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[21:35:21] <Connor> and not "programming" the nozzle position in Gcode ?
[21:35:26] <Jymmm> If you dont have analog, arduino is great
[21:35:47] <Jymmm> That's fine, gcode routines are cool
[21:36:31] <Connor> Well.. part of the function will be a sweeping feature.. that moves the nozzle up and down during normal machining process.. not too sure how you could do that using g-code and such...
[21:36:42] <Jymmm> first you talked about stepper tool changer, and now automated coolant nozzle. maybe things overlapped in outr conversaiton
[21:36:55] <Connor> Yes. We're talking about 2 things now.
[21:37:30] <Connor> the automated coolant nozzle will be hobby servo + arduino with modbus.
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[21:37:39] <Connor> the toolchanger will be linuxcnc all the way if possible.
[21:37:39] <Jymmm> I think you need to put a speed control of that hamster cage of yours a bit =)
[21:37:59] <Jymmm> s/of/on/
[21:38:12] <Jymmm> Connor: do you have a mesa i/o card?
[21:38:20] <Connor> I do now.
[21:38:48] <Connor> 5i25 + 7i76
[21:38:50] <Jymmm> is the arduino the simpler way of gettign going for now, then full lcnc solution down the road?
[21:39:18] <Connor> For the Coolant Nozzle.. I don't even begin to see a way to do it 100% with mesa/linuxcnc..
[21:39:33] <Connor> for the toolchanger.. It'll be mesa/linuxcnc from the start
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[21:39:35] <Jymmm> but you can with ardiuno?
[21:39:41] <Connor> Yes.
[21:39:45] <Jymmm> how so?
[21:40:01] <Connor> I could use it in "basic" mode.. which is.. it moves it and stays for the tool.
[21:40:16] <Jymmm> mdi?
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[21:40:33] <Connor> but. for the advanced functions that I want.. were it moves the nozzle up and down to sweep the tool while machining is in process... I don't see how that would work.
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[21:40:55] <Jymmm> inc/dec counter?
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[21:41:37] <Connor> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLgC4TDAR6I
[21:41:55] <Connor> Talking about making a hobby grade version of THAT
[21:43:45] <Jymmm> I wonder if the tool table could be extended to store nozzle position ?
[21:43:58] <Connor> possibly.
[21:44:08] <Connor> but.. would want 2 positions..
[21:44:14] <Connor> a top and bottom
[21:44:40] <Connor> so you could choose sweep mode or stationary mode.
[21:44:44] <Jymmm> two extra columns?
[21:44:56] <Jymmm> ...in the tool table file
[21:45:05] <Connor> yea.
[21:46:00] <Jymmm> Could even have a nozzle tuning thingy too
[21:46:10] <Jymmm> in SW I mean.
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[21:47:01] <Jymmm> Connor: Well, arduino to get a working demo, then maybe the final solution in SW?
[21:47:16] <Connor> Jymmm: Yea. possibly.
[21:47:35] <Connor> Would still need something the general servo grade PWM though..
[21:48:03] <Connor> because, PCW said not really good enough resolution on the mesa stuff for those..
[21:48:03] <Jymmm> pulse gen you mean?
[21:48:38] <Jymmm> it's not precion though, just sweep, so not significant I think
[21:49:09] <Jymmm> But nfc there =)
[21:49:38] <Jymmm> who cares of a stepper stalls, it'll just start up again.
[21:50:01] <Jymmm> you're not painting a monalisa with it =)
[21:50:20] <Connor> No. PWM for Hobby servo's.. not pulse gen.. no stepper involved.
[21:50:34] <Jymmm> RC servos?
[21:50:56] <Connor> Yes.
[21:51:36] <Jymmm> I bet if you look that are passive HW that could do that for you.
[21:51:45] <Jymmm> no programming needed =)
[21:52:18] <Connor> I'm sure.. I was just wanting it to be a little smart about knowing how far to sweep for which tool..
[21:53:59] <Connor> First things first.. I have to build the nozzle and casing.. and hook it up to a servo. :)
[21:55:13] <Jymmm> lol, better you than me =)
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[22:48:49] <roycroft> teh plotter is gone!
[22:49:12] <roycroft> i finally found someobody who wasn't afraid to do a little work to hook it up
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[22:59:24] <roycroft> it's amazing how resouceful one is when one is mostly unemployed, needs a plotter, and is looking at $150 for a used one vs. $2k+ for a new one
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[23:03:28] <andypugh> $150 seems quite a lot, I am sure I paid less for mine.
[23:03:49] <andypugh> Yours may be bigger and/or better.
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