#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-10-01

[00:00:04] <zeeshan|2> infact i got Z up to 300 ipm
[00:00:06] <zeeshan|2> without step loss
[00:00:19] <zeeshan|2> _methods: i get loss at 120 ipm
[00:00:23] <zeeshan|2> anything more than 100 ipm on X
[00:00:26] <_methods> but fine at 100
[00:00:32] <zeeshan|2> yes
[00:00:39] <_methods> have you tried 140 or 150?
[00:00:43] <zeeshan|2> no
[00:00:44] <_methods> just to see if it's a band
[00:00:50] <_methods> where step loss occurs
[00:00:52] <zeeshan|2> that's possible?
[00:01:14] <_methods> yeah
[00:01:20] <ssi> resonance
[00:01:22] <PCW> may just be out of torque at ~100 IPM and your voltage, or could be resonance
[00:01:26] <ssi> what kind of drives do you have
[00:01:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.automationtechnologiesinc.com%2Fproducts-page%2Fdigital-stepper-motor-driver%2Fdigital-stepper-driver-kl-5056d-heat-sink-is-included&ei=b0QrVJGIC4ewyQTkkoGwDg&usg=AFQjCNHwhtGC5s-9FkqsNmRpjqEPe0WWQA&bvm=bv.76477589,d.aWw
[00:02:02] <zeeshan|2> er
[00:02:03] <zeeshan|2> not those
[00:02:08] <ssi> those are what I use on the laser
[00:02:15] <zeeshan|2> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-8070d-heat-sink-is-included
[00:02:16] <zeeshan|2> that one
[00:02:21] <zeeshan|2> steppers are 1200oz-in
[00:02:28] <ssi> keling?
[00:02:28] <zeeshan|2> bipolar
[00:02:30] <zeeshan|2> yes
[00:02:44] <ssi> what voltage power supply
[00:02:49] -!- koo5 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[00:02:49] <zeeshan|2> 65VDC
[00:02:52] <zeeshan|2> 20A toriod
[00:03:39] <zeeshan|2> how do you know when a stepper resonates
[00:04:01] <_methods> it depends on the stepper
[00:04:01] <ssi> half coil or full coil?
[00:04:09] <_methods> are you using dampers?
[00:04:09] <ssi> series or parallel
[00:04:40] <zeeshan|2> 4 wire
[00:04:42] <zeeshan|2> bipolar
[00:04:45] <ssi> series or parallel
[00:05:01] <zeeshan|2> bipolar parallel
[00:05:02] <ssi> I'm trying to figure out what inductance you're running
[00:05:09] <zeeshan|2> 6 mH
[00:05:10] <Rab> zeeshan|2, tried .010 backlash compensation but it didn't fix the problem, just introduced some bizarre artifacts.
[00:05:14] <ssi> datasheet I'm looking at says 6.5 for parallel
[00:05:31] <zeeshan|2> ssi 6 - 6.5 :P
[00:05:36] <zeeshan|2> close enough!
[00:05:40] <ssi> yes
[00:05:44] <ssi> I'm just trying to nail it down
[00:05:44] <zeeshan|2> Rab: maybe it's not screw backlash
[00:06:08] <ssi> optimal voltage is 80V
[00:06:22] <zeeshan|2> ssi the thing is
[00:06:24] <ssi> 1200oz steppers are pretty big
[00:06:25] <zeeshan|2> i have the same stepper on both axis
[00:06:27] <ssi> why did you go so big?
[00:06:33] <zeeshan|2> the only difference is X is 3:1 drive ratio
[00:06:39] <zeeshan|2> so if power was the issue
[00:06:42] <zeeshan|2> why is the Z working
[00:06:51] <ssi> well because you're starting with massive servos
[00:06:52] <zeeshan|2> ssi: i did some calculations back in the day
[00:06:58] <zeeshan|2> and multipled by 2.5
[00:06:58] <ssi> and then multiplying the torque by 3 on x
[00:06:59] <zeeshan|2> :)
[00:07:11] <Rab> zeeshan|2, I thought of that. I suppose it could be an issue with the belt drive.
[00:07:14] <ssi> I'd put a 570 on the X or something
[00:07:17] <PCW> 5 TPI screws?
[00:07:19] <ssi> see what that does
[00:07:24] <zeeshan|2> PCW: 5mm pitch yes
[00:07:35] <ssi> big servos can lose steps if you run them fast
[00:07:39] <zeeshan|2> ssi 570 = which value?
[00:07:42] <ssi> ozinn
[00:07:57] <zeeshan|2> oh fak
[00:08:02] <zeeshan|2> i didnt think about that.
[00:08:04] <zeeshan|2> you're eright
[00:08:13] <zeeshan|2> x servo is seing a higher PPS
[00:08:15] <ssi> of course I'm right :D
[00:08:15] <zeeshan|2> cause of the 3:1 ratio
[00:08:19] <PCW> so 120 IPM is 1800 RPM, you're out of headroom
[00:08:37] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kelinginc.net/KL34H2120-42-8AT.pdf
[00:08:55] <ssi> higher PPI, not necessarily higher PPS
[00:09:09] <zeeshan|2> okay
[00:09:13] <zeeshan|2> so 100 ipm on X it is
[00:09:22] <zeeshan|2> ill leave Z to 200
[00:09:24] <zeeshan|2> give myself a buffer
[00:09:28] <PCW> or change the ratio
[00:09:29] <ssi> Z will probably run 300 if you want it to
[00:09:43] <zeeshan|2> PCW: nah ill lose resolution
[00:09:55] <zeeshan|2> but for sure on the mill
[00:09:57] <zeeshan|2> it's going to be servos
[00:10:02] <zeeshan|2> and mesa
[00:10:17] <zeeshan|2> as is factory, it had 250 ipm rapid
[00:10:19] <zeeshan|2> *has
[00:10:25] <zeeshan|2> and i'd like to have that minimum
[00:10:45] <ssi> heh
[00:10:54] <ssi> my machine is listed as 590ipm, and pete's is 750
[00:10:58] <ssi> I want at least 590 :)
[00:11:06] <zeeshan|2> you guys have much bigger
[00:11:08] <zeeshan|2> travels though
[00:11:10] <zeeshan|2> so you need it
[00:11:17] <ssi> it's not that big
[00:11:20] <ssi> 20x20x20
[00:11:22] <zeeshan|2> mines like 16x16x16
[00:11:23] <zeeshan|2> oh
[00:11:46] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to run a face mill on aluminum
[00:11:47] <zeeshan|2> at 100 ipm :D
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[00:12:00] <ssi> I haven't even considered feeds and speeds yet tbh
[00:12:04] <ssi> I'm sure it'll be significant tho
[00:12:10] <ssi> btw machine is coming thursday morning :)
[00:12:18] <zeeshan|2> depends on if youre using carbide end mill
[00:12:20] <zeeshan|2> and what youre cutting
[00:12:25] <ssi> yeah I'm aware
[00:12:31] <ssi> I just dunno how much I'll be able to do
[00:12:32] <zeeshan|2> do you know thw two forumlas?
[00:12:34] <ssi> yeah
[00:12:36] <zeeshan|2> you should know by heart?
[00:12:37] <zeeshan|2> tell me!
[00:12:43] <ssi> heh no not by heart
[00:12:47] * zeeshan|2 has been teaching the milling lab
[00:13:00] <zeeshan|2> rpm = 4 * cutting speed / diameter
[00:13:12] <zeeshan|2> feedrate = rpm * number of teeth * chip load per tooth
[00:13:22] <_methods> 3.86
[00:13:29] <zeeshan|2> _methods: relax!
[00:13:32] <zeeshan|2> round :P
[00:13:46] <_methods> lol
[00:13:47] <ssi> yeah that's inside 10%, and is therefore insignificant :)
[00:13:48] <ssi> engineering ftw
[00:13:49] <zeeshan|2> a high helix carbide end mill cutting aluminum
[00:14:05] <zeeshan|2> has a cutting speed of like 600-1400 surface feet per minute
[00:14:31] <zeeshan|2> so rpm = 4*1000 / .5 "
[00:14:38] <zeeshan|2> so the 1/2 " end mill needs to run at 8000 rpm!
[00:14:38] -!- PetefromTn_ [PetefromTn_!~IceChat9@66-168-88-232.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:14:54] <ssi> no problem :)
[00:15:11] <zeeshan|2> feed per tooth for a 1/2" carbide end mill cutting aluminum is .006-0.009
[00:15:16] <roycroft> happy dance time
[00:15:31] <roycroft> i was just able to print a test page to the plotter from windows 8.1
[00:15:32] <zeeshan|2> 8000*0.008*3 (assume 3 flute end mill)
[00:15:40] <roycroft> now i can sell the bloody thing
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[00:15:41] <ssi> roycroft: awesome
[00:15:43] <zeeshan|2> 192 inches per minute!!!
[00:15:50] <ssi> is that all? boooo
[00:15:50] <zeeshan|2> to run that baby at it's max production capacity
[00:15:51] <ssi> ;)
[00:15:55] <roycroft> i got a windows xp 64 bit driver for it
[00:16:06] <roycroft> and had to figure out how to disable driver signature checking on windows 8 to install it
[00:16:11] <roycroft> but after that it was easy
[00:16:23] <ssi> ugh that's been my nightmare lately
[00:16:27] <ssi> I still haven't made any progress
[00:16:35] <ssi> I need to get an external hard drive before i can do any more
[00:17:00] <zeeshan|2> does anyone know
[00:17:03] <ssi> I was able to get to the F8 menu under vmware fusion fwiw
[00:17:09] <roycroft> i've been getting some 2-1/2" laptop drives and putting them in tiny enclosures with a usb interface
[00:17:09] <zeeshan|2> how much the tool height ca nbe below the center line
[00:17:12] <zeeshan|2> of what you're cutting on a lathe
[00:17:16] <zeeshan|2> is 0.030" acceptable?
[00:17:20] <roycroft> they're nice - i can stick 512gb drives in my pocket
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[00:17:33] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: wut
[00:17:37] <zeeshan|2> you dont take magnets out of them?!
[00:17:37] <zeeshan|2> :D
[00:17:45] <roycroft> no
[00:17:52] <ssi> I have a 500G laptop drive on hand, I just don't have an enclosure for it
[00:17:53] <roycroft> 2.5" drives have tiny magnets
[00:17:53] <zeeshan|2> they have delicious magnets
[00:18:00] <roycroft> i like the magnets from the bigger drives
[00:18:03] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I have hundreds of hard drives t hat will give up their magnets
[00:18:07] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:18:16] <roycroft> the shiny platters are nice too
[00:18:20] <ssi> I've got an insane number of 9, 18, 36G scsi server drives
[00:18:20] <zeeshan|2> i personally use ssd for my cnc machine
[00:18:26] <roycroft> they're good for making wind chimes
[00:18:26] <ssi> I use ssd for everything
[00:18:30] <zeeshan|2> it just seems to be less suseptcible to noise
[00:18:33] <roycroft> you must be rich
[00:18:34] <zeeshan|2> i mean vibration
[00:18:37] <ssi> SO RICH
[00:18:44] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: nah man theyre like $50
[00:18:47] <zeeshan|2> for a 50gb
[00:18:49] <ssi> I've been buying ssds for years
[00:18:49] <zeeshan|2> or something small
[00:18:54] <ssi> my old ones get rotated out to other machines
[00:18:54] <roycroft> you don't need much of one for a cnc controller
[00:19:00] <zeeshan|2> well i did
[00:19:02] <zeeshan|2> cause how i mounted it
[00:19:06] <roycroft> 1TB ssd drives are still expensive
[00:19:11] <ssi> $400!
[00:19:12] <ssi> cheap!
[00:19:17] <ssi> I paid $400 for my first 120G
[00:19:26] <zeeshan|2> ssi cleans his butt with dollar bills not toilet paper
[00:19:29] <roycroft> i can get some nice linear bearing rails for $400
[00:19:30] <ssi> duh
[00:19:32] <zeeshan|2> =D
[00:19:40] <ssi> it's because I have a jobbie
[00:19:41] <roycroft> or three gecko stepper controllers
[00:19:44] <ssi> you should get a jobbie
[00:19:51] <roycroft> i have a job
[00:19:53] <zeeshan|2> fak gecko stepper controllers
[00:19:54] <ssi> not you ;)
[00:19:55] <zeeshan|2> go chinese!
[00:20:09] <ssi> yeah man I'd take a keling digital drive over a gecko any day of the week
[00:20:28] <ssi> I want to try the parker stepper drives
[00:20:32] <jdh> I'll trade you a keling non digital for a digital
[00:20:42] <zeeshan|2> whats so special about digital
[00:20:44] <zeeshan|2> i bought digital
[00:20:46] <zeeshan|2> cause it sounded cool
[00:20:53] <ssi> anti resonance and junk I think
[00:20:54] <zeeshan|2> and they say it makes your motor at a lower current
[00:20:58] <zeeshan|2> so it doesnt overheat
[00:21:06] <zeeshan|2> ah
[00:21:24] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parker-CompuMotor-GT6-L5-Gemini-Stepper-Drive-DRV-CTRL-Unique-eBay-No-Reserve-/251658230382?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a97ffda6e
[00:21:43] <zeeshan|2> that looks massive!
[00:21:43] <zeeshan|2> :D
[00:21:46] <ssi> YEP
[00:21:53] <zeeshan|2> how big is that drive
[00:21:56] <ssi> I dunno
[00:21:57] <ssi> looking it up
[00:22:08] <ssi> physically it's about the size of my parker 3.5kw servo drives
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[00:22:27] <zeeshan|2> this is interesting
[00:22:30] <zeeshan|2> you feed it AC current..
[00:22:30] <ssi> 5A at 170VDC
[00:22:33] <ssi> yes
[00:22:36] <ssi> that's why I love these drives
[00:22:39] <ssi> tehy're self-powered
[00:22:40] <zeeshan|2> so no need for a seperate power supply
[00:22:40] <zeeshan|2> nice
[00:22:55] <zeeshan|2> feedback too.
[00:22:59] <ssi> yep
[00:23:09] <zeeshan|2> rs232
[00:23:13] <zeeshan|2> so you can prolly communicate with it
[00:23:19] <zeeshan|2> and modify parameters using modbus
[00:23:22] <ssi> probably
[00:24:35] <zeeshan|2> i have to make up some questions
[00:24:36] <roycroft> time for another happy dance
[00:24:36] <ssi> If you use a non-Compumotor motor, or choose to configure a Compumotor motor, use the following commands to configure motor settings:
[00:24:37] <zeeshan|2> for the milling lab
[00:24:40] <ssi> Command Description
[00:24:42] <ssi> DMTSTT static torque
[00:24:45] <ssi> DMTIC continuous current DMTIND inductance DMTRES phase resistance DMTJ rotor inertia
[00:24:48] <ssi> DPOLE number of pole pairs
[00:24:48] <zeeshan|2> that the students need to answer in 3 hours
[00:24:49] <roycroft> i just plotted a drawing from autocad to the plotter
[00:24:50] <ssi> DIGNA current loop gain
[00:24:53] <ssi> DIGNB current loop gain
[00:24:59] <ssi> roycroft: :D
[00:25:03] <ssi> now get it sold
[00:25:06] <ssi> then come sell my plotter
[00:25:16] <ssi> "plotter" is a generous term for mine
[00:25:22] <ssi> it's a 36" inkjet plotter
[00:25:29] <ssi> I wish it were a pen plotter
[00:25:55] <roycroft> the guy is in a meeting
[00:25:59] <roycroft> he's going to call me when it's over
[00:26:07] <ssi> You can use the Gemini drive’s encoderless stall detect function to detect motor stalls. A stall occurs when the motor’s rotor loses synchronism with the stator. An external feedback device is not required to detect stalls.
[00:26:10] <zeeshan|2> PCW: i got more pictures of the cnc mill im picking up
[00:26:11] <ssi> hot
[00:26:15] <zeeshan|2> i think it uses linear scalres.
[00:26:16] <roycroft> nobody makes pen plotters any more
[00:26:22] <roycroft> this one uses inkjet cartridges
[00:26:24] <zeeshan|2> theyve got a tag on them that saysa
[00:26:30] <zeeshan|2> referenzmarke
[00:26:36] <roycroft> i'm thinking of getting an old pen plotter though
[00:26:42] <roycroft> it would make a good cnc vinyl cutter
[00:26:42] <ssi> pen plotters are way cooler
[00:26:44] <zeeshan|2> heidenhain makes it i think.
[00:26:50] <ssi> you can get cnc vinyl cutters cheap
[00:26:58] <roycroft> yeah
[00:27:05] <roycroft> by getting a $50 pen plotter and converting it :)
[00:27:07] <PCW> Yeah almost always Heidehain
[00:27:15] <ssi> heheh
[00:27:23] <zeeshan|2> so you guys make a card
[00:27:34] <zeeshan|2> to be able to intrepret the signals from the linear scale?
[00:27:49] <PCW> not available yet unfortunately
[00:27:54] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[00:28:14] <zeeshan|2> so i'll have to add encoders is my only option?
[00:28:18] <roycroft> i guess i should reenable driver signature checking and see if windows will complain about this now-installed driver
[00:28:19] <PCW> but you may have the interpolators with the control box
[00:28:37] <PCW> (or you can buy some EXE boxes on Ebay)
[00:28:53] <zeeshan|2> whats EXE stand for
[00:29:01] <zeeshan|2> nm
[00:29:06] <zeeshan|2> Heidenhain EXE 610C Scale Interpolation
[00:29:50] <zeeshan|2> are linear scales more accurate in comparison to quadrature encoders?
[00:29:56] <zeeshan|2> 1000 lines
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[00:30:45] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/f73ZefQ.jpg
[00:30:47] <zeeshan|2> ^ the scale
[00:30:48] <roycroft> oh, it only disables signature checking for that session - it resets on reboot
[00:30:50] <roycroft> excellent
[00:31:08] <ssi> beyond the fact that they're not subject to backlash or screw errors, I can't imagine why they would be
[00:31:14] <zeeshan|2> poor machine is so dirty
[00:31:19] <ssi> 1000 lines per what
[00:31:22] <zeeshan|2> rev
[00:31:28] <ssi> linear scales don't rev
[00:31:30] <zeeshan|2> for a typical quadrature encoder
[00:31:43] <zeeshan|2> i dont know what the linear scale's precision is
[00:31:57] <PCW> do the motors have encoders?
[00:32:12] <zeeshan|2> i asked the guy to send me pics of the motors
[00:32:16] <zeeshan|2> and he sends me one pic haha
[00:32:18] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/LgZffuA.jpg
[00:32:21] <zeeshan|2> thats all i got.
[00:32:33] <zeeshan|2> im assuming that box has an encoder/resolver in it
[00:32:34] -!- skunkworks_ [skunkworks_!~chatzilla@str-broadband-ccmts-ws-26.dsl.airstreamcomm.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:34:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.heidenhain.de/presentation/posa/de/index/N10582/N108A6/N108A6.html
[00:34:06] <zeeshan|2> demonstration of how the linea rencoder works
[00:34:10] <zeeshan|2> its in german :P
[00:34:33] <ssi> I wish I knew whether my mill was resolver or encoder
[00:34:37] <ssi> and anything at all about the servos
[00:34:38] <PCW> any manuals/scematics
[00:34:42] <PCW> ?
[00:34:48] <ssi> it'll all come with the machine
[00:34:49] <zeeshan|2> pcw he said he has a booklet
[00:34:50] <zeeshan|2> in the cabinet
[00:35:21] <PCW> may help determine what you've got
[00:36:21] <zeeshan|2> hm
[00:36:25] <zeeshan|2> from what im understanding
[00:36:39] <zeeshan|2> the linear scales are used to restore position of the machine after a power cycle
[00:36:56] -!- patrickarlt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[00:36:59] <zeeshan|2> not actually for feedback for the servos
[00:37:07] <zeeshan|2> so it mighjt actually have resolvers/encoders + the scale
[00:37:29] <PCW> ideally you will have encoders on the motors, resolvers would not be too bad, but if drives only have tachometers you may need to add encoders
[00:37:58] <PCW> especially if there's any backlash
[00:38:11] <zeeshan|2> i hope there isnt any
[00:38:16] <zeeshan|2> bachlash sucks for milling :(
[00:38:26] <zeeshan|2> its a great way to destroy carbide emd mills
[00:38:56] <ssi> is it ballscrew?
[00:39:00] <PCW> also sucks for stability of control loops
[00:39:31] <zeeshan|2> ssi yes
[00:39:36] <zeeshan|2> according to the seller
[00:39:38] <ssi> should be fine then
[00:39:55] <zeeshan|2> its part of the reason ibought it
[00:40:01] <zeeshan|2> screw converting a bridgeport to ball screws
[00:40:03] <zeeshan|2> too much effort
[00:40:35] <zeeshan|2> just wanna clean the machine, modernize the electronical components, lose some hair, modernize more electreical components
[00:40:37] <zeeshan|2> and call it a day :P
[00:41:51] <ssi> you and me both
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[00:42:06] <ssi> my hope is that I can use my motors as is
[00:42:20] <zeeshan|2> your machine looks newer
[00:42:25] <zeeshan|2> do you know when it was made?
[00:42:26] <ssi> 1993 I believe
[00:42:29] <zeeshan|2> yea
[00:42:33] <zeeshan|2> thats pretty damn new
[00:42:44] <ssi> haha
[00:43:01] <zeeshan|2> i bet it comes with a color screen
[00:43:05] <zeeshan|2> not a unicolor screen like my thing
[00:43:10] <ssi> yeah it's color
[00:43:14] <ssi> but the crt is dead
[00:43:21] <ssi> comes with an LCD sitting on top
[00:43:21] <ssi> haha
[00:43:25] <zeeshan|2> you were gonna kill the crt anyway
[00:43:25] <zeeshan|2> =D
[00:43:29] <ssi> yep
[00:43:37] <ssi> this thing is FAR newer than my other 'real' machine
[00:43:48] <zeeshan|2> and im jealous
[00:43:48] <ssi> whose "screen" was 14 nixie tubes :D
[00:43:50] <zeeshan|2> that you get it monday.
[00:43:52] <zeeshan|2> :(
[00:43:55] <ssi> I get it thursday!
[00:43:59] <zeeshan|2> oh
[00:44:02] <zeeshan|2> still earlier tha nme
[00:44:02] <ssi> as in 36 hours from now!
[00:44:35] <jdh> nixie tubes r0ck.
[00:44:42] <zeeshan|2> i was so impressed with one of the milling groups today
[00:44:47] <zeeshan|2> these guys called me out right to my face
[00:44:48] <ssi> these are 7seg tubes, not as cool as true nixies
[00:45:07] <zeeshan|2> they're like "isn't a vernier caliper inaccurate enough to measure our part and set the machine read out?"
[00:45:23] <ssi> they're actually called "numitrons"
[00:45:23] <ssi> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bc1xn_ICIAATLLA.jpg:large
[00:45:29] <zeeshan|2> this same group hit their slot tolerance of 25.00 to 25.01 mm
[00:45:30] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:45:58] <zeeshan|2> how does a group that has 0 milling experience
[00:46:07] <zeeshan|2> hit within a 0.02mm tolerance
[00:46:13] <ssi> beginners luck? ;)
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[00:46:19] <zeeshan|2> maybe
[00:46:23] <zeeshan|2> they were so anal
[00:46:29] <zeeshan|2> they literally measured the end mill with a micrometer
[00:46:31] <ssi> some people have aptitude, and if they don't know what they're doing they'll take extra care
[00:46:34] <ssi> yea see that :)
[00:46:40] <zeeshan|2> and found out that the ,75 end mill was actually .7485"
[00:46:41] <zeeshan|2> haha
[00:47:20] <zeeshan|2> since they did so well
[00:47:31] <zeeshan|2> i hinted them what questions are coming on the graded assignment and the answers :d
[00:47:43] <ssi> I'm hungry
[00:47:45] <ssi> bring me a sandwich
[00:48:04] <zeeshan|2> they have to treat an end mill as a cantilever beam and determine the deflection
[00:48:05] <zeeshan|2> the tool encounters
[00:48:12] <zeeshan|2> no
[00:48:14] <zeeshan|2> get your own sandwich
[00:48:15] <roycroft> i'm a slow, but accurate machinist
[00:48:19] <ssi> depends how sharp the tool is :P
[00:48:27] <zeeshan|2> ssi can't ask me that
[00:48:31] <roycroft> which means i'm really not a machinist
[00:48:36] <roycroft> a machinist is fast and accurate
[00:48:36] <zeeshan|2> i give them the axial, tangential, and radial forces
[00:48:41] <ssi> that's fine
[00:48:44] <zeeshan|2> they have all the vector components to come up with the answer
[00:48:47] <ssi> forces depend on sharpness :)
[00:48:54] <ssi> which is what I was getting at
[00:48:57] <zeeshan|2> thats one factor :P
[00:49:32] <roycroft> but when i was taking machining classes, all those macho guys were ripping through things at lightning speed
[00:49:36] <roycroft> and their work was crap
[00:49:51] <roycroft> i'd rather go slow and be accurate than make crap quickly
[00:49:51] <zeeshan|2> one of the questions is
[00:49:59] <zeeshan|2> determine how long it'll take to machine part
[00:50:06] <zeeshan|2> after they figure our rpm, and feed rate
[00:50:17] <zeeshan|2> and know the dimensions to hit and number of passes
[00:50:22] <zeeshan|2> that should be easy i think
[00:50:32] <ssi> I hope they have to calculate the number of passes!
[00:50:35] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: depends
[00:50:45] <zeeshan|2> ssi yes
[00:50:53] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: i was trying to tell these guys/girls
[00:51:03] <zeeshan|2> when you specify a +/- 0.001" tolerance
[00:51:05] <roycroft> and then there were the welders taking their required machining classes
[00:51:10] <zeeshan|2> there should be a _damn_ good reason why
[00:51:14] <Tom_itx> you can get your cad cam to do some of that for you
[00:51:25] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: they gotta do it manually
[00:51:25] <Tom_itx> if you bother to tweak it
[00:51:31] <zeeshan|2> to appreciate cam
[00:51:51] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yeah there's nothing more infuriating than engineers who annotate tight tolerances arbitrarily
[00:51:58] <ssi> the only thing you can do about it is make sure to bill them for the tolerances
[00:52:01] <roycroft> accurate = to tolerance
[00:52:06] <roycroft> it's not an absolute
[00:52:09] <Tom_itx> do you have approximate tool change times etc for them?
[00:52:21] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: not getting that advanced
[00:52:25] <zeeshan|2> it's literally an end mill
[00:52:31] <ssi> Tom_itx: newer machines advertise chip to chip toolchange times
[00:52:34] <zeeshan|2> thats removing .25" of material
[00:52:41] <zeeshan|2> out of a 4"x4" piece
[00:52:52] <Tom_itx> ssi, i can believe that
[00:53:01] <Tom_itx> just stay outta their way!
[00:53:18] <zeeshan|2> the school cnc outputs "machining time"
[00:53:18] <ssi> heheh yep
[00:53:24] <zeeshan|2> which i think it outputs based on your feedrate
[00:53:27] <zeeshan|2> and total movement.
[00:53:38] <Tom_itx> those ones with the swing arm are kinda scary sometimes
[00:53:44] <Tom_itx> especially with long tooling
[00:53:46] <zeeshan|2> i'd like to see that in linuxcnc
[00:53:54] <zeeshan|2> if it isnt there already :P
[00:54:10] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, i do tool time and overall time on mine
[00:54:21] <zeeshan|2> is there an option to display it in axis?
[00:54:53] <Tom_itx> yup
[00:55:21] <ssi> Tom_itx: haas vf2 on their site says 4.2sec tool-to-tool, and 4.5sec chip-to-chip
[00:55:33] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: how to do? :D
[00:56:05] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/screenshot.png
[00:56:15] <Tom_itx> gawd my server is slow tonight..
[00:56:18] <zeeshan|2> did you use the 'time' component|?
[00:56:36] <Tom_itx> 'current time' and 'overall time'
[00:56:42] <ssi> Tom_itx: I've been wanting to add that
[00:56:48] <Tom_itx> overall includes tool changes
[00:56:54] <ssi> also would be interesting to have a total hours meter
[00:56:57] <ssi> like lifetime hours
[00:56:59] <Tom_itx> current is just from run to stop
[00:57:09] <Tom_itx> someone else was doing that..
[00:57:13] <Tom_itx> forget who
[00:57:23] <Tom_itx> or if they were successful
[00:57:48] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2, it's all in my configs there
[00:58:21] <zeeshan|2> link to configs
[00:58:25] * zeeshan|2 will steal your code!
[00:58:42] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[00:59:18] <Tom_itx> also modified hal_manualtoolchange for a hard button on my pendant
[00:59:22] <zeeshan|2> yea youre using the time component
[00:59:25] <ssi> I've been trying to start putting my configs in git
[00:59:29] <ssi> I think so far only the laser is there
[00:59:29] <Tom_itx> which btw made it into ver 2.6
[01:00:10] <ssi> https://github.com/ianmcmahon/linuxcnc_configs/tree/master/laser in case it helps anyone :P
[01:00:16] <ssi> there's a lot of oddball stuff in there
[01:00:25] <ssi> the pulser and raster stuff for instance
[01:00:28] <zeeshan|2> IAN
[01:00:31] <Tom_itx> i don't know git well enough
[01:00:38] <ssi> wat
[01:00:46] <zeeshan|2> now i know your names.
[01:00:54] <ssi> wasn't a big secret :)
[01:01:06] <zeeshan|2> cinci will be miss ing one day
[01:01:08] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[01:01:18] <ssi> don't forget my house is guarded by cnc laser turrets
[01:01:22] <zeeshan|2> hah
[01:01:26] <zeeshan|2> that work at 2000 ipm?
[01:01:33] <ssi> oh way faster than that
[01:01:44] <Tom_itx> i use google earth to target your place
[01:01:50] <zeeshan|2> haha
[01:02:01] <ssi> also the cinci isn't going at my house :)
[01:02:17] <malcom2073> Psh, silly Tom_itx, he'll try to attack and get slapped with a google earth eula violation and be harmless :P
[01:02:33] <Tom_itx> heh
[01:03:01] <malcom2073> "No georeferenced weapons using google earth" <- would be funny
[01:03:31] <malcom2073> Is there any equivalant to that sidebar on axis (done using python modules) with tkemc?
[01:03:42] <Tom_itx> probably
[01:03:55] <Tom_itx> i haven't ventured there
[01:04:19] <malcom2073> I'm trying really hard to avoid using linuxcncrsh with a wrapper remotely heh
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[01:04:32] <malcom2073> so I'm using tkemc over x tunneling
[01:05:14] <ssi> that looks too much like linuxcrash
[01:05:28] <malcom2073> heh
[01:05:34] <malcom2073> I think it's linuxcncrsh? it's the telnet client
[01:05:38] <ssi> yea
[01:05:39] <malcom2073> server
[01:05:40] <malcom2073> thing
[01:12:06] <Tom_itx> ssi you gonna carve your pumpkins with your laser?
[01:12:12] <ssi> ooooooo
[01:12:13] <ssi> yes
[01:14:23] <ssi> Tom_itx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwG2xoksJsk
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[01:20:08] <malcom2073> ssi: That's awesome
[01:20:28] <malcom2073> What does the back half of the pumpkin look like afterwards?
[01:21:08] <Tom_itx> you can see bits of it floating in the water
[01:23:16] <malcom2073> I wish I had a water cutter, but really I have no real reason for one heh
[01:23:34] <PetefromTn_> they are pretty nasty dirty machines really...
[01:23:52] <malcom2073> I imagine they make quite the mess. I Might be picking up some big rails and screws though, be able to get myself together a 4x8 router
[01:24:26] <PetefromTn_> I would much rather have a nice CNC router with say a plasma cutter head. dual purpose would be sweet.
[01:24:37] <Tom_itx> edm
[01:25:12] <PetefromTn_> the shop I worked in recently had a waterjet and damn was that thing nasty. Makes HUGE barrels of snotlike rusty goo that must be disposed of.
[01:25:23] <malcom2073> imagine a wooden waste board wouldn't do well with a plasma cutter :)
[01:25:48] <malcom2073> buddy of mine works at a HVAC place, they got a 4x8 plasma cutter, it's pretty awesome
[01:25:50] <PetefromTn_> I figured on making a removable tray with the steel mesh in it
[01:25:55] <malcom2073> yeah
[01:26:16] <PetefromTn_> sit on top of the router and try to work near the inside as much as possible.
[01:26:42] <malcom2073> Maybe havet he mesh below the wasteboard, and have the wasteboard removable?
[01:26:46] <malcom2073> or more easily removable
[01:28:04] <PetefromTn_> I think it would be easier to make the trap and mesh removable and have a more solid foundation for a flat router bed that could hopefully have a vacuum hold down system later on.
[01:28:29] <malcom2073> ah true
[01:29:08] <PetefromTn_> I would most likely use the router part of it more than the plasma but it sure would be nice to have a dual purpose setup.
[01:30:03] <PetefromTn_> it would be easy enough to make a stainless steel flat tray that you could pump the water out of before you remove it and maybe hang it on the wall when not in use or even under the table possibly
[01:30:34] <malcom2073> ah yeah
[01:30:37] <PetefromTn_> it would for sure take time to setup and switch between the two machines but that is typical or dual purpose anything unfortunately.
[01:31:15] <PetefromTn_> personally I do not have room for a large CNC router AND a CNC plasma table in the shop here so I would have to deal with it.
[01:31:40] <PetefromTn_> This is a project I have considered pretty seriously. I will probably build something like this at some point.
[01:32:06] <PetefromTn_> right now I am still unfinished with my Cincinatti arrow 500 VMC retrofit.
[01:32:20] <Tom_itx> getting closer though
[01:32:27] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[01:32:39] <PetefromTn_> the spindle orient is the next big item on the agenda.
[01:33:18] <PetefromTn_> I am trying to learn something of this programming but sometimes I feel it is pretty hopeless for me since I have zero programming experience and even less Linux experience
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[01:42:49] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv0eibJ4s2M&list=UUj_XaV1ss-qdD-lPUtTEcXw this is interesting albeit simplistic version of what I am talking about.
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[01:44:19] <Cobra___> hwllo im new here
[01:44:30] <zeeshan|2> am i dick for asking the students a question like this:
[01:44:37] <zeeshan|2> https://www.stairsystemstore.com/image/cache/data/fitings_accessory/SS0127-500x500.jpg
[01:45:51] <zeeshan|2> "A sphere needs a hole drilled through its center. Explain 2 methods to hold the sphere on either a lathe or a milling machine in preparation for drilling."
[01:46:19] <XXCoder> cast sphere with said hole.
[01:46:23] <zeeshan|2> no
[01:46:27] <zeeshan|2> it already exists :P
[01:46:40] <CaptHindsight> ball holder and ball vise
[01:46:48] <XXCoder> heh well would do some custom jaws probably
[01:47:02] <zeeshan|2> do you think its a fair question to ask them?
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[01:47:25] <XXCoder> not if you allow partial credits
[01:47:33] <XXCoder> er it is fair I mean
[01:47:36] <zeeshan|2> yea they always get part marks
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[01:47:43] <zeeshan|2> it allows them to explore their imagination
[01:47:45] <zeeshan|2> on how to hold it
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[01:48:52] <XXCoder> yeah
[01:50:15] <zeeshan|2> i was thinking about how i'd do it
[01:50:34] <zeeshan|2> it'd take a piece of flat bar
[01:50:42] <zeeshan|2> shove it in the mill vise
[01:51:08] <zeeshan|2> drill a hole in the flar bar
[01:51:12] <zeeshan|2> take some tape
[01:51:24] <zeeshan|2> (dobule sided)
[01:51:27] <zeeshan|2> shove it in hole
[01:51:29] <zeeshan|2> put sphere on it
[01:51:31] <zeeshan|2> drill hole
[01:51:58] <CaptHindsight> what other tools are available to the student?
[01:52:03] <zeeshan|2> anything
[01:52:08] <zeeshan|2> that their imagination can come up with
[01:52:14] <zeeshan|2> they're only allowed to use a lathe or a mill
[01:53:34] <CaptHindsight> so tack welding the balls to a plate would not be possible?
[01:53:34] <ssi> vise jaws with perpendicular V grooves would work pretty well
[01:53:55] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[01:53:59] <ssi> want
[01:54:00] <zeeshan|2> yes
[01:54:01] <ssi> wat
[01:54:08] <ssi> yes
[01:54:09] <zeeshan|2> now help me come up with more questions
[01:54:11] <zeeshan|2> to ask them
[01:54:13] <XXCoder> ssi yeah double v would work too in order to make sure ball dont move forward in or out or sideways in any direction
[01:54:14] <ssi> ok
[01:54:29] <XXCoder> something similiar would work for lathe
[01:54:36] <zeeshan|2> guys
[01:54:38] <zeeshan|2> its just a drill operation
[01:54:38] <ssi> "how long can ssi work without eating burgers before he falls over"
[01:54:41] <ssi> so hungry :(
[01:54:43] <zeeshan|2> you could shove that shit on there with taPE
[01:54:50] <zeeshan|2> hold it by hand
[01:54:51] <zeeshan|2> call it a day
[01:54:55] <ssi> heh
[01:54:59] <ssi> sounds like a good way to drill your hand
[01:55:00] <CaptHindsight> "You're driving a bus, at the first stop you pick up 2 lathes .....
[01:55:30] <XXCoder> hold using hand and use hand drill ;)
[01:55:50] <CaptHindsight> .... whats the name of the bus driver?
[01:56:22] <ssi> "You need to drill a 2-1/4" hole in a piece of 0.032" alclad 2024-T6. You have available to you a hand drill, a $45 harbor freight drill press, and a cheap shitty fly cutter"
[01:56:32] <ssi> ask them real world questions :)
[01:56:40] <ssi> "How do you accomplish your goal and keep all your fingers
[01:56:42] <ssi> ?"
[01:57:15] <CaptHindsight> do you A, Quit and find a new job. B, Spend you own money of better tools. C,....
[01:57:30] <CaptHindsight> of/on
[01:58:05] <ssi> what would be "better tools" in this scenario?
[01:58:12] <ssi> greenlee knockout punches are about the best option
[01:58:19] <ssi> but keeping them on hand in every size is prohibitively expensive
[02:00:41] <jdh> hand drill and a file
[02:02:35] <ssi> ug 10pm alreayd
[02:02:37] <ssi> gotta eat something pronto
[02:05:30] <roycroft> the only remotely safe way to do that with the tools described would be to hand old the work on the drill press table, chuck up the fly cutter, lower it so the cutter is just touching the work, lock the spindle depth, rotate it by hand, and continue slowly lowering and locking the spindle while hand turning it
[02:05:46] <roycroft> it would take a long time to make the cut
[02:06:16] <zeeshan|2> back
[02:06:36] <roycroft> hand it to your boss an hour later, and say "you could have bought some decent tooling and fixures with that hour's wages"
[02:06:48] <roycroft> then collect your last paycheck and move on
[02:07:05] <zeeshan|2> rofl ssi
[02:07:09] <zeeshan|2> @ hf drill
[02:07:14] <zeeshan|2> we dont have hf here :D
[02:07:50] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: wuss
[02:08:01] <zeeshan|2> i'd hold the aluminum with my mouth
[02:08:09] <zeeshan|2> and the drill with my feet
[02:08:14] <zeeshan|2> and make this 2.25 hole
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[02:09:45] <archivist> a clock maker would remind you of a shellac chuck to hold balls and funny shaped objects
[02:10:27] <zeeshan|2> whats a shellac chuck
[02:10:32] <zeeshan|2> looks like a piece with lines on it
[02:10:35] <zeeshan|2> round piece
[02:11:13] <roycroft> no shellac
[02:11:27] <roycroft> i'm working off the given list of tools
[02:16:05] <zeeshan|2> heres another question
[02:16:07] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if its fair
[02:17:03] <zeeshan|2> "Pipe flanges are typically welded to large pipes and used to connect pipes together. Explain a detailed manufacturing job plan on creating one of these pipe flanges"
[02:17:04] <zeeshan|2> http://b2bimg.bridgat.com/files/flangeflangespipe_flangesmetalwork_machining.jpg
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[02:18:52] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[02:20:21] <Tom_itx> ask them how to cut the cube in a cube in a cube thing...
[02:20:33] <ssi> turner's cube
[02:20:44] <Tom_itx> yeah i forgot the name..
[02:21:45] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:21:50] <Tom_itx> zeeshan|2 ask them why it should be done on a mill or a lathe and why?
[02:21:50] <zeeshan|2> thats too much work for the poor students
[02:22:15] <Tom_itx> probably quicker done on a lathe
[02:22:17] <zeeshan|2> the poor students are already being asked
[02:22:23] <zeeshan|2> how to use a lathe to turn a cube
[02:22:23] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:22:28] <zeeshan|2> that fucks with most peoples minds
[02:22:31] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:22:57] <ssi> lots of careful setups and facing
[02:23:12] <zeeshan|2> OR JUST START WITH A CUBE!!
[02:23:12] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:23:36] <ssi> well if that's on the table
[02:23:41] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if the turner cube is an answerable question
[02:23:42] <zeeshan|2> in 45 min
[02:23:43] <ssi> ask them how to make a million dollars as a machinist
[02:24:04] <ssi> start with ten million
[02:24:41] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:25:12] <zeeshan|2> i need one more question
[02:25:14] <zeeshan|2> :/
[02:25:53] <ssi> how many chucks could a lathe chuck chuck if a lathe chuck could chuck chucks?
[02:26:03] <zeeshan|2> hahaha
[02:26:32] <zeeshan|2> for some reason the student slaugh
[02:26:33] <zeeshan|2> when i go
[02:26:43] <zeeshan|2> "Righty tighty lefty loosey"
[02:26:45] <zeeshan|2> or
[02:26:53] <zeeshan|2> cut twice, measure once
[02:26:54] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[02:27:34] <ssi> dude if you have to teach them righty tighty lefty loosey, I'd be afraid to turn them loose on machine tools
[02:27:47] <Tom_itx> just don't cut your finger on the 2nd cut
[02:27:48] <zeeshan|2> you'd be suprised dude
[02:27:57] <zeeshan|2> out of the 8-9 groups ive had so far
[02:28:01] <zeeshan|2> w/ 3-4 students each
[02:28:07] <zeeshan|2> 3 knew which way to turn to loosen
[02:28:18] <zeeshan|2> they all know right hand rule
[02:28:21] <ssi> that's awful
[02:28:25] <zeeshan|2> they just have never applied it to practice
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[02:28:40] <zeeshan|2> so if you show them the right handle rule and show how the thumb points in the direction you want the bolt to move
[02:28:50] <zeeshan|2> and the fingers point in the rotational direction
[02:28:51] <zeeshan|2> they get it
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[02:29:07] <zeeshan|2> they use right hand rule all the time to setup coordinate systems
[02:29:18] <zeeshan|2> and solve forces/vectors/displacements
[02:29:22] <ssi> this is why I hate college kids
[02:29:30] <Tom_itx> turner's cube is probably just as easily done on a lathe as it is on a mill
[02:29:33] <ssi> if you interviewed random people on the street
[02:29:41] <ssi> and asked them to explain the right hand rule of coordinate systems
[02:29:47] <ssi> and asked them if they knew which way to turn a bolt
[02:29:51] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:29:53] <ssi> what do you suppose the responses would be?
[02:29:59] <zeeshan|2> whats a bolt
[02:30:01] <zeeshan|2> whats a coordinate
[02:30:04] <ssi> um
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[02:30:17] <Tom_itx> when does a screw become a bolt?
[02:30:19] <ssi> maybe it's diffrent in canuckistan, but in MURICA, folks here know how to run a bolt
[02:30:38] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: when you find out it's not a she, but a he
[02:30:40] <ssi> Tom_itx: I think technically a screw is meant to turn and a bolt isn't
[02:30:43] <roycroft> if you interviewed random people on the street and asked them what 5x4 is you would not get a majority of correct answers
[02:30:54] <zeeshan|2> haha ssi
[02:30:59] <zeeshan|2> proud american
[02:31:15] <ssi> Tom_itx: or said another way, bolts are used with nuts, and screws aren't
[02:31:21] <zeeshan|2> i dont think Tom_itx got my job about the screw and the bolt
[02:31:23] <ssi> so a machine screw that goes into a tapped hole or nutplate is a screw
[02:31:26] <roycroft> i bet 98% of muricans don't know the difference between a screw and a bolt
[02:31:36] <zeeshan|2> none of you guys are laughing :(
[02:31:40] <zeeshan|2> i thought it was a good joke
[02:31:43] * zeeshan|2 fails at comedy
[02:31:53] <ssi> roycroft: I don't think that's exclusive to muricans
[02:31:59] <ssi> it's a subtle distinction :P
[02:32:00] <toastyde1th> nearly any person on the street is able to ask a question that any other person is not able to answer
[02:32:07] <zeeshan|2> ssi: your theory is failed
[02:32:16] <ssi> no, no it's not
[02:32:17] <zeeshan|2> socket head cap screw
[02:32:21] <zeeshan|2> hex head cap screw
[02:32:24] <zeeshan|2> they has nuts!
[02:32:43] <zeeshan|2> screw and bolt
[02:32:47] <zeeshan|2> depends on if she's hot or not
[02:32:57] <zeeshan|2> if she's 500 lb you bolt
[02:33:03] <ssi> yeah we get it
[02:33:03] <zeeshan|2> if she's a cutie you screw
[02:33:07] <zeeshan|2> FINALLY
[02:33:09] <ssi> it's not funny this time either
[02:33:13] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[02:33:54] <ssi> :)
[02:33:55] <zeeshan|2> i actually looked at why some things are called screws
[02:33:59] <zeeshan|2> and some things are called bolts
[02:34:04] <zeeshan|2> its a historical thing
[02:34:33] <Tom_itx> it was just a conversation starter for me.
[02:34:48] <ssi> The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used. However, there are those who have set about trying to define these words as precise engineering terms. The very nature of the common English use of these words renders that impossible.
[02:35:05] <Tom_itx> both could be noun or verb
[02:35:07] <ssi> Tom_itx: it worked :)
[02:35:36] <zeeshan|2> i mean im sure you guys have said this
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[02:35:38] <zeeshan|2> "screw in that bolt"
[02:35:42] <zeeshan|2> not
[02:35:44] <zeeshan|2> "Bolt in that bolt"
[02:35:51] <zeeshan|2> :)
[02:36:02] <Tom_itx> thread that on there will ya
[02:36:12] <zeeshan|2> see threading to me soudns like
[02:36:15] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yeah, but not to canadian engineering students
[02:36:15] <zeeshan|2> you're asking me to put a die through it
[02:36:30] <Tom_itx> or a sewing class...
[02:36:38] <ssi> cause in that case you'd have to say "take that bolt and insert it into the hole and using a clockwise motion in accordance with the right hand rule please apply torque to stated value"
[02:36:40] <zeeshan|2> this is why they came up with standard s like ansi 14.5 y
[02:36:48] <zeeshan|2> to ensure you have a communication standard where everyones talking about the same part
[02:37:02] <Tom_itx> damn good nobody needs help with linuxcnc tonight
[02:37:07] <zeeshan|2> ssi it's not an american thing or a canadian thing
[02:37:13] <zeeshan|2> it's just general engineering school thing
[02:37:25] <ssi> yeah, engineering schools are full up with morons that have been taught things
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[02:37:36] <zeeshan|2> they're not all necessairly morons
[02:37:40] <zeeshan|2> they're just in their world of books
[02:37:41] <ssi> sure they are
[02:37:42] <zeeshan|2> and theory
[02:37:49] <ssi> if they weren't morons, they'd have gotten a job and made money
[02:37:50] <zeeshan|2> and need to get exposed to practice
[02:38:01] <ssi> instead they're paying someone to stuff the knowledge in them so they can fake their way into a career
[02:38:08] <ssi> one day they'll get some experience and maybe not be morons
[02:38:20] <zeeshan|2> well the whole point of engineering school
[02:38:24] <zeeshan|2> was to get people ready for their license
[02:38:39] <Tom_itx> which is just another piece of paper
[02:38:48] <zeeshan|2> i will disagree to that
[02:38:55] <ssi> yeah, gubmint regulation of "smarts", hooray
[02:38:59] <zeeshan|2> the fact you need a license
[02:39:01] <zeeshan|2> has made things safer
[02:39:08] <ssi> do you need to know which way to turn a bolt to get a PE license?
[02:39:11] <zeeshan|2> back in the 1850s early 1900s
[02:39:25] <zeeshan|2> there was so many deaths related to engineering stuff
[02:39:31] <zeeshan|2> there still are, but its a lot less now
[02:39:34] <zeeshan|2> ssi no
[02:39:40] <ssi> well thank god for that
[02:39:43] <zeeshan|2> but you do need to be competent enough to know when something is unsafe
[02:39:44] <roycroft> a requirement that engineers do field work in the trades for a year as a requirement of getting a pe license would make things even safer
[02:39:45] <ssi> or else we'd be all out of engineers and stuff
[02:39:50] <ssi> roycroft: wouldn't it?
[02:39:59] <roycroft> and would also help keep the cost of making stuff down
[02:40:00] <Tom_itx> roycroft i agree
[02:40:04] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: theres 5 cateogries to satisfy
[02:40:10] <ssi> in my OH SO HUMBLE opinion, folks ought to have a year or two in the trades before attending school
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[02:40:18] <roycroft> that would be ideal, ssi
[02:40:22] <ssi> then they'd have an idea of what to learn when they're in school
[02:40:31] <zeeshan|2> see you guys are thinking
[02:40:36] <Tom_itx> the ones that survive should then be given books
[02:40:39] <roycroft> but first we need to make the professors work in the trades :)
[02:40:40] <zeeshan|2> engineering is easy!
[02:40:41] <ssi> college kids carry the highschool thinking of 'why the hell will I ever need trig?'
[02:40:45] <zeeshan|2> they're the pencil pushes
[02:40:48] <zeeshan|2> not the tool pushers :P
[02:41:01] <roycroft> mathematics is the language of the universe
[02:41:04] <zeeshan|2> 5 categories to get your 4 years of experience:
[02:41:19] <ssi> roycroft: yeah but nobody realizes that until they try to do something in the real world and fail because they don't have enough math
[02:41:21] <zeeshan|2> application of theory, practical experience, mangagement of engineering, communication skills, awarness of social implications of engineering
[02:41:30] <roycroft> if you want to understand the universe, and you have to understand it to deliberately alter it to obtain desired results, you need to learn to speak math
[02:41:45] <ssi> zeeshan|2: I think you have the mistaken idea that this channel is full of machinists
[02:41:50] <ssi> nobody here is a machinist
[02:41:58] <zeeshan|2> ??
[02:42:06] <ssi> machinists are guys that get somewhere north of minimum wage to operate someone else's tools
[02:42:14] <roycroft> if we were machinists we would be machining during the day and drinking beer at night
[02:42:14] <zeeshan|2> no
[02:42:15] <ssi> everyone here is an engineer
[02:42:16] <zeeshan|2> that's a machine operator
[02:42:17] <roycroft> and not hanging out on irc
[02:42:23] <ssi> machine builders are engineers
[02:42:25] <ssi> not machinists
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[02:42:49] <ssi> machinist is a good skill to have to be a machine builder
[02:42:49] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[02:42:55] <ssi> but all machinists cannot build machines
[02:42:55] <zeeshan|2> if iwere to ask you to tell me the deflectio nof a cutting tool
[02:43:01] <zeeshan|2> based on the forces the tip was seeing
[02:43:02] <roycroft> this is a kind of preaching to the choir channel when it comes to engineers having practical experience
[02:43:03] <zeeshan|2> could you figure it out?
[02:43:08] <ssi> of course
[02:43:16] <zeeshan|2> most engineering students could answer that question in 5 min
[02:43:17] <zeeshan|2> to 10
[02:43:22] <zeeshan|2> mech eng that is
[02:43:26] <Tom_itx> wtf did i start...
[02:43:31] <zeeshan|2> the point is
[02:43:37] <ssi> yeah, especially since they're actively studying it
[02:43:41] <zeeshan|2> you n eed theory and practical experpeince
[02:43:41] <ssi> that proves nothing
[02:43:46] <zeeshan|2> to do something right
[02:43:56] <roycroft> and a little bit of intelligence
[02:43:57] <zeeshan|2> doing some joe schmoe method might work great o na cnc machine build
[02:44:17] <zeeshan|2> but designing a building to ensure a contaminant leakage
[02:44:19] <zeeshan|2> doesnt kille veryone
[02:44:22] <zeeshan|2> is _engineering_ work
[02:44:29] <ssi> you realize you're back on your condescending prick streak, right?
[02:44:37] <zeeshan|2> ?!?!
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[02:44:54] <ssi> a) you have zero idea what anyone's background in here is
[02:44:57] <zeeshan|2> you're condescending engineers
[02:45:02] <ssi> no, no I'm not
[02:45:04] <zeeshan|2> yes you are.
[02:45:06] <ssi> I have nothing but respect for engineers
[02:45:09] <zeeshan|2> HAHAHA
[02:45:10] <zeeshan|2> okay
[02:45:10] <ssi> it's engineering students I don't like :)
[02:45:21] <roycroft> i'm actually a barber
[02:45:28] <roycroft> but i hate cutting hair
[02:45:35] <roycroft> i always wanted to be a lumberjack
[02:45:36] <zeeshan|2> it's really easy to talk shit about a particular group of people
[02:45:41] <zeeshan|2> by making lame assumptions of what you think they know
[02:45:50] <ssi> yes, which is what you're doing
[02:45:51] <zeeshan|2> and i never assumed who anyone in here is
[02:45:53] <ssi> 22:43 < zeeshan|2> doing some joe schmoe method might work great o na cnc machine build
[02:45:53] <XXCoder> http://sploid.gizmodo.com/ice-cube-turns-into-perfect-sphere-using-cool-brute-for-1640648814
[02:45:55] <zeeshan|2> everyone has their own specialities
[02:46:00] <XXCoder> I wonder if its easy to make with cnc
[02:46:14] <zeeshan|2> ssi most people in here do not sit down
[02:46:17] <ssi> you realize I build airplanes for funsies, right?
[02:46:19] <zeeshan|2> and calculate the forces their machine is ggoing to see.
[02:46:21] <ssi> think there's no engineering in that?
[02:46:30] <zeeshan|2> thats why i made that comment
[02:46:44] <ssi> not to mention EE
[02:46:47] <ssi> and compE
[02:46:48] <ssi> and CS
[02:46:51] <ssi> my ME isn't super solid
[02:46:56] <ssi> but it's probably better than half your students
[02:47:02] <zeeshan|2> whats your educational background?
[02:47:10] <ssi> what does it matter?
[02:47:25] <zeeshan|2> why are you taking my comments as a target towards you?
[02:47:29] <ssi> I'm not
[02:47:33] <zeeshan|2> you are..
[02:47:35] <XXCoder> ssi could you make those ice shaper thing? heh
[02:47:36] <zeeshan|2> 22:46:20] <ssi> you realize I build airplanes for funsies, right?
[02:47:46] <zeeshan|2> it's like you have something to prove
[02:47:46] <ssi> 22:43 < zeeshan|2> doing some joe schmoe method might work great o na cnc machine build
[02:47:49] <ssi> 22:44 < zeeshan|2> but designing a building to ensure a contaminant leakage
[02:47:51] <ssi> 22:44 < zeeshan|2> doesnt kille veryone
[02:47:54] <ssi> 22:44 < zeeshan|2> is _engineering_ work
[02:48:06] <ssi> your attitude is that you're the only person in the world qualified in any way
[02:48:09] <zeeshan|2> what dont you understand about that?
[02:48:24] <zeeshan|2> you can make mistakes on a cnc build, and the trial and error approach works
[02:48:32] <zeeshan|2> but when people's lives are at risk
[02:48:35] <ssi> yes, and my point is
[02:48:35] <ssi> again
[02:48:36] <zeeshan|2> the trial and error approach doesnt work
[02:48:40] <ssi> I build airplanes for funsies
[02:48:43] <zeeshan|2> you have to go back the theory and validation
[02:48:45] <ssi> how much trial and error do you suppose works there?
[02:48:56] <ssi> and are not people's lives at risk?
[02:48:58] <ssi> even if it's only mine
[02:49:17] <zeeshan|2> ssi: you're right, you need to have some competency
[02:49:18] <zeeshan|2> to do that
[02:49:23] <zeeshan|2> and the trial and error approach doesnt work there
[02:49:27] <zeeshan|2> but this is not about you
[02:49:29] <zeeshan|2> or me
[02:49:40] <ssi> oh thank you master of engineering for granting the possibility that I might have some glimmer of competency
[02:49:48] <ssi> I can die a happy man
[02:50:05] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[02:50:11] <zeeshan|2> could you design a plane for bombardier?
[02:50:16] <zeeshan|2> or lockheed?
[02:50:22] <ssi> can any one man?
[02:50:30] <ssi> given enough time, sure
[02:50:30] <zeeshan|2> i know enough people at bombardier
[02:50:41] <zeeshan|2> theres no way they'd hire someone with no degree
[02:50:51] <ssi> what makes you think I have no degree?
[02:50:52] <zeeshan|2> infact most of their employees have either a masters or phd
[02:51:05] <zeeshan|2> you defeinitely dont have an engineering degree
[02:51:08] <zeeshan|2> wi th the way you talk
[02:51:14] <ssi> why, because I denigrate it?
[02:51:19] <Tom_itx> lots of ppl have worked in engineering with no degree
[02:51:20] <ssi> that's hardly proof
[02:51:39] <Tom_itx> not so much anymore...
[02:51:42] <ssi> I could line up five people for you that I know personally with masters degrees or better who have the same attitudes about engineering students :)
[02:52:02] <zeeshan|2> like i said earlier
[02:52:04] <XXCoder> degree papers is awesome
[02:52:06] <zeeshan|2> engineering students are pencil pushers
[02:52:06] <XXCoder> for wiping
[02:52:11] <zeeshan|2> not tool pushers
[02:52:17] <zeeshan|2> with enough time, they can do both
[02:52:21] <XXCoder> its very good on helping you get in door
[02:52:26] <XXCoder> besides that...
[02:52:42] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: depends on the degree
[02:52:45] <Tom_itx> too often they get in the door too soon
[02:52:53] <XXCoder> Nah
[02:52:57] <XXCoder> no exceptions
[02:53:09] <ssi> Tom_itx: we won't hire anyone with a degree anymore unless they have work experience
[02:53:13] <ssi> they're USELESS fresh out of school
[02:53:27] <ssi> actually they're worse than useless
[02:53:29] <zeeshan|2> they need guidance
[02:53:37] <ssi> kids without a degree don't assume they already know everything
[02:53:45] <ssi> fresh gatech grads are the absolute worst
[02:53:49] <LeelooMinai> That's kind of ironic
[02:53:51] <Tom_itx> they should be required to apprentice like alot of trades
[02:54:04] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: they do!
[02:54:12] <zeeshan|2> in canada, they cant have their license
[02:54:15] <XXCoder> I'm on internship running cnc machine
[02:54:18] <zeeshan|2> without working under a professional engineer for 4 years
[02:54:25] <XXCoder> this week is first week I'm working on my own
[02:54:32] <zeeshan|2> thats their "apprentencship"
[02:54:36] <Tom_itx> XXCoder are you a pencil pusher?
[02:54:37] <Tom_itx> :D
[02:54:39] <XXCoder> couple weeks too early but well work had couple issues
[02:55:00] <roycroft> i agree with that, ssi
[02:55:15] <XXCoder> tom I started with It and CS degrees
[02:55:20] <zeeshan|2> the know it all attitude
[02:55:22] <roycroft> when i get fresh graduates it takes six months of unlearning before i can start teaching them things
[02:55:27] <zeeshan|2> again is dependient on the person
[02:55:29] <XXCoder> 4 years no flipping job
[02:55:55] <ssi> roycroft: that's if you can get them to listen at all :P
[02:56:23] <zeeshan|2> knowing your own strengths and weaknesses
[02:56:28] <zeeshan|2> is a good thing :)
[02:56:34] <zeeshan|2> my weakness: electronics :(
[02:56:41] <zeeshan|2> no matter how much i read about transistors
[02:56:43] <zeeshan|2> i just dont get it
[02:56:44] <ssi> zeeshan|2: yet you tried to lecture me about electronics!
[02:56:53] <zeeshan|2> ssi wat
[02:56:56] <ssi> :P
[02:57:06] <Tom_itx> my only strength is i don't know my weaknesses
[02:57:09] <zeeshan|2> it musta been electrical power distribution related
[02:57:11] <ssi> Tom_itx: :D
[02:57:12] <zeeshan|2> im strong on that
[02:57:41] <ssi> zeeshan|2: no, you were trying to school me on what happens in the output caps of a dc power supply, when you were trying to fabricate a reason why I'm an idiot for switching my power supplies on estop
[02:57:55] <ssi> but it was clear you had approximately zero clue what you were talking about
[02:58:08] <ssi> didn't stop you from being convinced I was wrong!
[02:58:12] <ssi> "frequently wrong, but never in doubt"
[02:58:14] <zeeshan|2> thats where you're absolutely retarded
[02:58:16] <zeeshan|2> bahaha
[02:58:21] <zeeshan|2> you need to go back and read that convo
[02:58:28] <zeeshan|2> i was ASKING you how they work
[02:58:31] <zeeshan|2> not tryign to SCHOOL you
[02:58:32] <zeeshan|2> wow
[02:58:33] <zeeshan|2> just wow
[02:58:42] * Tom_itx sends the two of you to your respective corners for a time out
[02:58:44] <ssi> see, even now, frequently wrong but never in doubt :)
[02:59:06] <zeeshan|2> we concluded theres 2 way to do those things
[02:59:07] <zeeshan|2> maybe more
[02:59:13] <zeeshan|2> and i know why you did your way
[02:59:18] <zeeshan|2> and it makes 100% sense
[02:59:29] <zeeshan|2> you need to calm the fuck down
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[02:59:49] <ssi> http://www.troll.me/images/walter/calmer-than-you-are.jpg
[03:01:50] <ssi> ok, back to home ec then
[03:03:02] <zeeshan|2> i think the 3rd question for these students should be something simpler
[03:03:07] <zeeshan|2> maybe like a pros and cons
[03:03:13] <zeeshan|2> for a) 2 flute vs 4 flute end mill
[03:03:31] <zeeshan|2> b) using a lathe to machine a round part vs mill
[03:03:43] <Tom_itx> just use a 3 flute all the time
[03:04:20] <zeeshan|2> whats so cool about the 3 flute end mills
[03:04:27] <zeeshan|2> ive read in literature they're great for aluminum
[03:04:29] <zeeshan|2> why i don't know
[03:04:34] <Tom_itx> i don't like em
[03:04:34] <roycroft> three is a cool number
[03:04:52] <zeeshan|2> a machine shop a visited
[03:04:57] <XXCoder> my work uses 3 pretty much all time
[03:04:59] <roycroft> i've never used one
[03:05:01] <XXCoder> once a while 2
[03:05:06] <zeeshan|2> had an arsenal of 3 flute high helix cutters
[03:05:08] <Tom_itx> we used them sometimes
[03:05:10] <roycroft> but i could see how three could cut down on vibration
[03:05:12] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: do you know why?
[03:05:17] <XXCoder> no
[03:05:21] <zeeshan|2> ask them why
[03:05:21] <zeeshan|2> :D
[03:05:29] <XXCoder> typically 3/4 inch end mills
[03:05:41] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: arent 4 flutes equally distance
[03:05:44] <zeeshan|2> between cutting edges?
[03:05:50] <zeeshan|2> so less vibration too wit hthem?
[03:06:02] <XXCoder> actually think some 3/4 tend to be 4
[03:06:03] <roycroft> if you're cutting a slot with a 2 or 4 flute mill you're alternately hammering both sides and having zero contact with the sides of the slots
[03:06:11] <XXCoder> one breaker end mill has 54
[03:06:12] <XXCoder> er 5
[03:06:23] <roycroft> if you're using a 3 flute mill you have one flute in contact somewhere at all times
[03:06:45] <roycroft> assuming straight flutes
[03:06:49] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: OH
[03:06:50] <XXCoder> imange 54 flutes LOL
[03:06:52] <zeeshan|2> that makes a lot of sense
[03:07:01] <zeeshan|2> that actually might be the reason..
[03:07:18] <Tom_itx> roycroft most of the cutters we used were never straight
[03:07:25] <Tom_itx> mostly spiral flute
[03:07:47] <XXCoder> same for my work tom
[03:08:10] <Tom_itx> i think that helps with vibration too
[03:08:12] <zeeshan|2> spiral flute end mills look so sexy
[03:08:24] <zeeshan|2> i want to sleep with one in bed
[03:08:30] <toastyde1th> lol the reason 3 flute is the sweet spot is because of chip load vs chip clearance
[03:08:33] <zeeshan|2> (did i actually type that? :( )
[03:08:41] <toastyde1th> has nothing to do with hammering or anything else
[03:08:47] <zeeshan|2> i thought the spiral flute was for evactuation
[03:08:53] <XXCoder> tom not when end mill is 6 inches long
[03:08:59] <Tom_itx> it is zeeshan|2
[03:09:01] <XXCoder> its fucking "loud"
[03:09:08] <Tom_itx> well of course it is
[03:09:10] <XXCoder> its also apparently very loud
[03:09:17] <toastyde1th> spiral helps with many things, one of which is indeed chip evac
[03:09:24] <roycroft> i've never used 3 flute end mills before, nor even thought about them
[03:09:25] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th: more details
[03:09:30] <zeeshan|2> on chip load vs chip clearance
[03:09:35] <roycroft> that was my first thought on why they might be desirable
[03:09:42] <zeeshan|2> chip load is the amount of material removed by each teeth
[03:09:45] <toastyde1th> you have very large chips in full width slotting
[03:09:46] <zeeshan|2> chip clearance is the distance between the flutes
[03:09:58] <zeeshan|2> i dont see how they're balanced in a 3 flute
[03:09:59] <XXCoder> tom heh it was so loud it scared new cnc mills head. thought machine was breaking!
[03:10:00] <toastyde1th> so you need a lot of gullet to take any appriciable cut and not gum the cutter up and break it
[03:10:14] <XXCoder> of course I cant hear it but it sure vibrates so hard
[03:10:21] <roycroft> i usually use 2 flute mills in aluminum
[03:10:21] <toastyde1th> the lower the number of teeth, the slower you have to go for a given chip load
[03:10:44] <XXCoder> but I got used to it because well all certain step for certain parts I make uses those very loud em.
[03:10:54] <toastyde1th> 3 flute endmills have 50% more teeth than 2 flute, and so if you are chip load limited (which is often the case) you wind up going 50% faster
[03:11:16] <toastyde1th> and yet if you go to 4 flutes, you often have to back off the chip load per tooth because the gullet can't support clearing a full width chip
[03:11:31] <XXCoder> interesting
[03:11:31] <toastyde1th> these are not hard and fast rules - they only apply to small diameter cutters.
[03:11:34] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th:
[03:11:35] <zeeshan|2> ahhh
[03:11:37] <zeeshan|2> that makes a lot of sense.
[03:11:54] <XXCoder> I suppose thats why breaker EM has 5 flute. it breaks chips so it can do it?
[03:12:00] <toastyde1th> yep
[03:12:00] <XXCoder> it end to be pretty quick
[03:12:18] <toastyde1th> roughing/corncob endmills don't make big, fluffy chips that pack
[03:12:27] <Tom_itx> roughing EM generally have a fairly high helix too
[03:12:30] <toastyde1th> the problem with roughers is chip recutting
[03:12:34] <XXCoder> and 6 inches version of breaker EM is VERY "loud" too
[03:12:53] <zeeshan|2> im taking this one class next semester
[03:12:58] <zeeshan|2> "machinining dynamics"
[03:13:05] <zeeshan|2> its all about tooling and cutting forces
[03:13:16] <zeeshan|2> hopefully they cover more about the geometries of newer tools
[03:13:17] <toastyde1th> should be awesome
[03:13:24] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th: you are very knowledgable :D
[03:13:27] <toastyde1th> if you are interested in tool geometry get Sandvik's book
[03:13:33] <zeeshan|2> which one
[03:13:36] <toastyde1th> they wrote a book the size of machinery's handbook
[03:13:36] <zeeshan|2> they've got tons of pdfs
[03:13:41] <toastyde1th> 1000+ pages
[03:13:49] <toastyde1th> all about tool geometry and cutting forces
[03:13:51] <toastyde1th> i forget the title
[03:14:44] <zeeshan|2> 3. Explain the advantages and disadvantages of the following (at least 3 per category): a) 2 flute and 4 flute end mill b) center cutting and non center cutting end mill c) carbide and high speed steel cutting tools d)
[03:14:47] <zeeshan|2> give me one more to ask!
[03:15:06] <toastyde1th> ?
[03:15:13] <zeeshan|2> making questions to ask the students
[03:15:15] <zeeshan|2> for the mill lab
[03:15:47] <zeeshan|2> maybe drill press vs lathe?
[03:15:48] <zeeshan|2> er
[03:15:52] <zeeshan|2> drill press vs milling machine
[03:15:55] <LeelooMinai> lol
[03:15:58] <zeeshan|2> drill press "least accurate" but faster
[03:16:06] <zeeshan|2> milling machine can side cut
[03:16:08] <zeeshan|2> i dunno
[03:16:13] <LeelooMinai> drill press vs lathe got me thinking there
[03:16:16] <roycroft> drill press generally more dangerous :)
[03:16:37] <zeeshan|2> those damn small parts drilling with the hand vise
[03:16:42] <zeeshan|2> great way to break a wrist
[03:17:05] <toastyde1th> i tend to set a t-slot stud in the drill press somewhere
[03:17:08] <roycroft> and that's exactly why
[03:17:11] <toastyde1th> and have the vise up against it
[03:17:18] <toastyde1th> downside, the drill bit will break
[03:17:21] <roycroft> people tend to have more respect for a milling machine and secure the work every time
[03:17:23] <toastyde1th> upside, you won't lose a finger
[03:17:36] <roycroft> but they think they can get away with hand-holding work for a drill press
[03:17:50] <zeeshan|2> to be real honest with you
[03:18:00] <zeeshan|2> 90% of the time i use my hands
[03:18:03] <zeeshan|2> cause its faster
[03:18:09] <zeeshan|2> but the other 10% i use a floating vise
[03:18:14] <XXCoder> frak that roy. I use hands to talk. I rather keep my hands intact thank you very much
[03:18:18] <zeeshan|2> or a vise grip clamp on the table
[03:18:40] <zeeshan|2> anything smaller than a 3/8" hole = hand
[03:18:43] <zeeshan|2> no matter what it is
[03:18:47] <roycroft> if it's just drilling, i'll use a fairly heavy drill press vise that can float for most small holes
[03:19:01] <zeeshan|2> if it's drilling a steel cylindical piece (1" diameter"
[03:19:08] <zeeshan|2> ill hold it with a vise grip
[03:19:12] <roycroft> i've been using a drill press for a long time, and i know what i can do safely and what i can't
[03:19:16] <toastyde1th> i am not a fan of totally free drill press work even in a vise
[03:19:26] <toastyde1th> i always put a hard stop and work up against it
[03:19:33] <zeeshan|2> toastyde1th: let me guess why
[03:19:39] <roycroft> i clamp work down on a drill press most of the time
[03:19:41] <zeeshan|2> you had a 3/4" end mill snap on you
[03:19:45] <zeeshan|2> when the vise pulled up? :D
[03:19:49] <zeeshan|2> end mill = drill bit
[03:20:03] <toastyde1th> nah, it's that even a tiny drill bit has the potential to spin a vise
[03:20:14] <zeeshan|2> well a 1/8 bit will beak
[03:20:18] <zeeshan|2> before spinning a 40-50lb vise
[03:20:22] <zeeshan|2> *break
[03:20:25] <toastyde1th> and i'm a big fan of getting into "just do it every time" habits
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[03:20:43] <toastyde1th> plus, i can usually leave the stud on the table indefinitely and it's almost never in the way
[03:20:50] <toastyde1th> just walk up, press against the stop, and go
[03:21:04] <zeeshan|2> yea i like that idea
[03:21:12] <zeeshan|2> havent used it before
[03:21:13] <toastyde1th> I use one of the big ones - 8" tall
[03:21:16] <zeeshan|2> i always try to hit the column
[03:21:24] <zeeshan|2> but a lot of parts dont hit the column
[03:21:30] <zeeshan|2> thats where the stud comes into play
[03:21:36] <toastyde1th> exactly
[03:21:47] <roycroft> i googled "sandvik tool geometry book" and found a book on bedwetting
[03:21:53] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[03:21:55] <toastyde1th> I have yet to have issues with it, including drilling 3/4" thick copper plate with a 1.5" drill bit
[03:22:09] <zeeshan|2> i think we can probably all agree
[03:22:16] <zeeshan|2> the worst is drilling sheet metal w/ a hole saw on a drill press
[03:22:20] <zeeshan|2> :-(
[03:22:20] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[03:22:29] <toastyde1th> I can one up you on that
[03:22:39] <toastyde1th> I had a teacher back when i was doing votech school
[03:22:49] <toastyde1th> he used to have to cut 4x8 sheets of stainless steel
[03:22:51] <roycroft> the only way i do that is with the sheet metal secured to a plywood backing board and the backing board clamped donw
[03:23:03] <toastyde1th> and he had to do it on a 50" vertical turret lathe
[03:23:10] <toastyde1th> with double sided tape
[03:23:12] <XXCoder> heh once had to make tooling. made over 100 holes on thick sheet
[03:23:13] <zeeshan|2> ROFL
[03:23:13] <zeeshan|2> wow
[03:23:20] <XXCoder> and router cnc killed it in minutes
[03:23:25] <XXCoder> "yay"
[03:23:53] <zeeshan|2> i try to avoid using hole saws
[03:23:57] <zeeshan|2> even for the enclosure for the fan holes
[03:24:00] <zeeshan|2> i buted out the plasma
[03:24:02] <zeeshan|2> *bustged
[03:24:14] <zeeshan|2> its more toxic
[03:24:18] <zeeshan|2> but at least it doesnt slice my hand open
[03:25:05] <roycroft> a chassis punch is always preferred to a hole saw when cutting sheet metal holes
[03:25:21] <zeeshan|2> you think i'm rich?!?!
[03:25:27] <zeeshan|2> those green lee punches in 2 1/2"
[03:25:31] <zeeshan|2> are like $300
[03:25:41] <toastyde1th> trepanning tool
[03:25:46] <toastyde1th> Also very scary in sheet metal.
[03:25:47] <roycroft> so you're saying you don't charge enough for your work
[03:26:00] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: msot of my work is for myself
[03:26:06] <zeeshan|2> if it was for someone else, id probably refuse to do it :D
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[03:26:18] <zeeshan|2> i wont even make downpipes/exhausts
[03:26:19] <zeeshan|2> for cars anymore
[03:26:25] <zeeshan|2> cause it involves getting under the car
[03:26:39] * zeeshan|2 is picky and lazy
[03:26:58] <roycroft> i've taken to hiring out vehicle repairs recently
[03:27:06] <roycroft> about 3-4 years ago i started doing that
[03:27:13] <roycroft> it's not only the crawing around bits
[03:27:24] <roycroft> moreso, the car parts are dirty bits
[03:27:29] <roycroft> i like to work with clean metal
[03:27:48] <zeeshan|2> most of the cars are usually race cars / street tuner type of cars
[03:27:52] <zeeshan|2> so theyre pretty clean
[03:28:00] <roycroft> yeah, they get rebuilt every weekend :P
[03:28:03] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:28:31] <zeeshan|2> i "helped" my friend do his brakes on his 1993 civic si
[03:28:33] <zeeshan|2> my god
[03:28:42] <zeeshan|2> i showed him how to do one side
[03:28:47] <zeeshan|2> this thing literally shed 50 lb of rust
[03:29:08] <zeeshan|2> it was enoujgh to mix aluminum oxide with it
[03:29:10] <zeeshan|2> and make some thermite
[03:29:15] <toastyde1th> haha that's amazing, i had to get the gear puller out for one of the wheels on my car
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[03:29:41] <zeeshan|2> it was rusted on?
[03:29:48] <roycroft> you guys must live back east
[03:29:55] <zeeshan|2> yea
[03:29:58] <zeeshan|2> salt and snow
[03:29:59] <zeeshan|2> :/
[03:30:05] <roycroft> we don't use salt on the rare occasions when it snows
[03:30:07] <roycroft> we use sand
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[03:30:44] Daezed is now known as tronwizard
[03:30:45] <toastyde1th> zeeshan|2, ya
[03:30:52] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:31:02] <zeeshan|2> on my daily driver car
[03:31:04] <zeeshan|2> whenever the wheels are off
[03:31:15] <zeeshan|2> i flappy disc the mounting face
[03:31:19] <zeeshan|2> then through antiseize on it
[03:31:22] <zeeshan|2> *throw
[03:31:36] <zeeshan|2> i tried grease before
[03:31:38] <zeeshan|2> but it doesnt hold up
[03:32:14] <toastyde1th> I am using the antiseize now
[03:32:28] <toastyde1th> But imagine the other three wheels need it too
[03:32:34] <zeeshan|2> haha
[03:32:36] <toastyde1th> I really just did not feel like going through all that bullshit
[03:32:38] <toastyde1th> three more times
[03:32:45] <zeeshan|2> did you try kicking the tire
[03:32:48] <zeeshan|2> and shocking it
[03:32:48] <toastyde1th> yes
[03:32:56] <zeeshan|2> damn
[03:32:57] <toastyde1th> I hit the fuck out of it with a sledge
[03:33:12] <toastyde1th> I needed a 15" gear puller and a breaker bar
[03:33:15] <zeeshan|2> you shoulda just driven without some lug nuts
[03:33:15] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[03:33:18] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[03:33:20] <zeeshan|2> haha
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[03:34:19] <toastyde1th> i need to check my rear brakes
[03:34:22] <toastyde1th> I think they're going
[03:34:29] <zeeshan|2> drums or calipers
[03:34:42] <toastyde1th> but honestly I'm not upset about that because this car is retarded and oversteers when it's wet
[03:34:44] <toastyde1th> because of the rear brakes
[03:34:47] <toastyde1th> drums
[03:34:58] <zeeshan|2> if your wheels were that rusted on
[03:35:06] <zeeshan|2> you probably need to get a spring kit for the drums
[03:35:11] <zeeshan|2> when replacing the liners
[03:35:23] <toastyde1th> we'll see when i knock it open
[03:36:57] <zeeshan|2> does anyone know
[03:36:58] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Basler-L103k-1k-Monochrome-CCD-Camera-Nice-Industrial-Lab-Camera-L100-/281001345133?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item416cfc406d
[03:37:10] <zeeshan|2> how you typically hook this up to a computer
[03:37:21] <zeeshan|2> i want to use it for tool setting on the lathe
[03:37:35] <toastyde1th> looks like it's a pretty standard coax out
[03:37:47] <toastyde1th> you should be able to buy a tv tuner card
[03:37:48] <zeeshan|2> theres like 6 pins
[03:37:57] <toastyde1th> oh
[03:38:01] <toastyde1th> then nevermind
[03:38:07] <toastyde1th> I just saw the picture of it square on from the back
[03:38:14] <toastyde1th> fuck if i know
[03:38:20] <zeeshan|2> damn electronics
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[03:41:16] <Tom_itx> component video?
[03:41:43] <zeeshan|2> i dont thinkso
[03:41:58] <zeeshan|2> the CCD cameras in our lab
[03:41:58] <Tom_itx> probably not on B&W
[03:42:03] <zeeshan|2> all use a specialized pci card
[03:42:11] <zeeshan|2> which i've never seen before in my life
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[03:49:24] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/1606250_10100489766172172_3761269861639745421_o.jpg
[03:49:35] <ssi> what do we think about the blue piping... nice detail, or too much?
[03:51:30] <Jymmm> zombie piping
[03:51:43] <zeeshan|2> looks nice
[03:52:28] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1909767_508587400322_2177_n.jpg?oh=75e2a94c00f159135c3b57a7d1439512&oe=54C455DD&__gda__=1422614452_d4c672d8033e52e0d66436d826bd21cb
[03:52:32] <ssi> it's matchy matchy
[03:53:12] <zeeshan|2> perfect match :D
[03:53:20] <Jymmm> zombie virus http://www.paracordstore.com/assets/images/virus_paracord.jpg
[03:53:21] <zeeshan|2> a lot of the old school muscle cars
[03:53:26] <zeeshan|2> have that detailing
[03:53:28] <zeeshan|2> i love it
[03:53:49] <zeeshan|2> i want all leather black seats with grey striping
[03:53:52] <zeeshan|2> and stitching
[03:59:54] <ssi> do it
[03:59:56] <ssi> it's not hard
[04:00:17] <ssi> I found an uphostery fabric store that sells leather hides for $120 apiece
[04:00:24] <ssi> it's about a hide a seat for car seats
[04:00:34] <ssi> do one in vinyl first for practice
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[04:05:58] <zeeshan|2> not enough patience :/
[04:07:43] <zeeshan|2> if i can come across the audi a8 recaro seats
[04:07:49] <zeeshan|2> i will buy them!
[04:08:06] <zeeshan|2> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8267337055_3f501fd437_z.jpg
[04:08:30] <ssi> http://www.srtforums.com/forums/attachments/f106/33525d1173243132-anyone-here-know-thing-two-about-300zx-tt-d5_3.jpg
[04:08:33] <ssi> that's what was in my z31
[04:08:47] <zeeshan|2> im not a big fan of cloth seats anymore
[04:08:47] <ssi> loved those seats
[04:08:52] <ssi> yeah, me either
[04:08:54] <ssi> but those were great hehe
[04:09:03] <zeeshan|2> leather is less comfortable in my opinion
[04:09:09] <ssi> less?
[04:09:15] <zeeshan|2> yea
[04:09:23] <zeeshan|2> unless you have plushy type of leather in a gm car
[04:09:29] <zeeshan|2> most imports are too hard
[04:09:37] <zeeshan|2> and you sweat your balls off!
[04:09:49] <zeeshan|2> but the one thing i like about them is theyre so much easier to clean
[04:09:57] <ssi> the stuff I'm using for the cherokee is vinyl
[04:09:59] <zeeshan|2> and they dont act like a sponge for dust like cloth seats
[04:10:04] <ssi> I was gonna do practice in vinyl and redo them for real in leather
[04:10:09] <ssi> but I like the blue and cream vinyl I found SO MUCH
[04:10:12] <ssi> it matches very nicely
[04:10:14] <ssi> so I'm gonna keep it
[04:10:20] <ssi> but that blue is a very thin, super soft vinyl
[04:10:29] <ssi> it feels like the softest dress leather jacket ever
[04:10:31] <ssi> if you know what I mean
[04:10:38] <zeeshan|2> why is that?
[04:10:41] <zeeshan|2> some leather feels so soft
[04:10:43] <zeeshan|2> like a jacket
[04:10:46] <zeeshan|2> and others are so rough
[04:10:46] <ssi> that's what I mean
[04:10:49] <ssi> oh
[04:10:51] <ssi> why is it
[04:10:51] <ssi> I guess
[04:10:59] <zeeshan|2> i mean its all cow hide!
[04:10:59] <ssi> maybe depends on the age of the animal?
[04:11:02] <ssi> or how it's tanned?
[04:11:02] <ssi> I dunno
[04:11:13] <zeeshan|2> like even with couches
[04:11:14] <ssi> my leatherworking skill isn't leveled up enough to know :D
[04:11:18] <zeeshan|2> some you sink into and they're so soft
[04:11:27] <zeeshan|2> and some are hurt if you jump into them :P
[04:11:30] <ssi> yeh
[04:11:33] <zeeshan|2> almost get a burn
[04:11:38] <ssi> then on the top end, there's tooling leather
[04:11:45] <ssi> like what saddles and holsters are made of
[04:11:54] <zeeshan|2> that stuff is rock hard
[04:11:55] <zeeshan|2> :P
[04:17:14] <ssi> yep
[04:17:20] <ssi> my machine will sew three or four layers of tooling leather :P
[04:17:25] <ssi> it's crazy
[04:18:16] <XXCoder> cnc sewer
[04:18:32] <ssi> i'm sure they exist :P
[04:18:44] <ssi> I mean, the computerized embroidery machines are basically that
[04:18:46] <XXCoder> even rule 34 cnc?
[04:18:58] <ssi> ...no?
[04:19:01] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XiVyakHzY8
[04:20:21] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaNU2qGo7ts
[04:20:41] <XXCoder> interesting
[04:20:50] <ssi> lol @ arduino powered sewing machine
[04:21:52] <Jymmm> If you only knew how intense embroidery machines are/can be
[04:21:57] <ssi> I can imagine
[04:21:59] <XXCoder> I'd mak3e it triple head machine
[04:22:09] <XXCoder> less flexable though unless its just to make those specific part
[04:22:15] <Jymmm> XXCoder: It's the machine that's $$$$
[04:22:27] <Jymmm> XXCoder: I'm on the lookout for one actually
[04:22:32] <ssi> what sort
[04:22:33] <XXCoder> unless you make it so all 3 heads spacing is adjustable
[04:22:39] <XXCoder> our first link
[04:22:42] <XXCoder> *your
[04:22:51] <Jymmm> ssi: mostly commercial, not so much industrial
[04:23:00] <ssi> what do you want to do with it?
[04:23:06] <toastyde1th> i have an industrial serger
[04:23:12] <Jymmm> webbing, canvas, nylon,
[04:23:15] <ssi> toastyde1th: will it do carpets?
[04:23:15] <XXCoder> nothting really I dont need a cnc sew
[04:23:18] <toastyde1th> and holy lord balls jesus is it fast
[04:23:31] <ssi> I need to bind some light carpet for the airplane
[04:23:33] <toastyde1th> nah, carpets won't fit under the presser foot
[04:23:43] <ssi> Jymmm: my machine would do fine for you
[04:23:48] <XXCoder> not even usual cheapass company rugs?
[04:23:49] <toastyde1th> I have yet to find something that is actual cloth that it won't do just fine
[04:23:51] <ssi> I paid $400 for it, it's a singer 591
[04:23:51] <Jymmm> ssi: which is?
[04:24:00] <toastyde1th> I've sewn 32 layers of denim with it
[04:24:09] <ssi> it'll sew 5/8" thick buildup of canvas without breaking a sweat
[04:24:23] <ssi> three or four pieces of 1/8" tooling leather easily
[04:24:31] <ssi> it's a stout little bastard
[04:24:36] <toastyde1th> the needle cooler is not working though so doing too much sewing on heavy shit will overheat the needles
[04:24:40] <Jymmm> ssi: That's an industrial machine. a wee bit too much for my needs I believe
[04:24:43] <ssi> only downside for my uses is it doesn't have a walking foot, which'd be nice for upholstery
[04:24:50] <ssi> yeah probably
[04:24:59] <ssi> and it is straight stitch only
[04:25:05] <ssi> if I get into sailmaking, I'll want zigzag
[04:25:12] <ssi> but for upholstery, straight stitch is fine
[04:25:31] <ssi> toastyde1th: I've run cheap home sergers before
[04:25:32] <ssi> they're fun
[04:25:41] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7BL2e4Q5_g
[04:25:46] <zeeshan|2> http://sgstool.com/images-dev/_products/multi-carb-11flute-700.jpg
[04:25:47] <zeeshan|2> wtf
[04:25:47] <toastyde1th> <XXCoder> our first link
[04:25:47] <toastyde1th> <XXCoder> *your
[04:25:48] <toastyde1th> <Jymmm> ssi: mostly commercial, not so much industrial
[04:25:49] <toastyde1th> oops
[04:25:52] <toastyde1th> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_phnFoojWU
[04:25:54] <XXCoder> lol
[04:25:57] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: correct
[04:26:04] <toastyde1th> my machine is nearly identical to that one
[04:26:05] <XXCoder> that is why i disabled irc client copy on click
[04:26:12] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: to which?
[04:26:15] <XXCoder> it also unfortunately disables regular keyboard shortcuts
[04:26:24] <toastyde1th> Jymmm, ?
[04:26:29] <toastyde1th> i accidentally pasted that, sorry
[04:26:39] <toastyde1th> i have a habit of clicking/highlighting text as i read it
[04:26:39] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: which machine? the ony I or ssi linked to?
[04:26:40] <ssi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbPLrzq9NMM
[04:26:44] <ssi> that might not be a bad way to go
[04:26:45] <toastyde1th> the one i just pasted
[04:27:09] <XXCoder> wow thats very thick
[04:27:31] <XXCoder> wow
[04:27:31] <Jymmm> toastyde1th: but a seger is just for the edges, right?
[04:27:39] <toastyde1th> seams, yes
[04:27:47] <XXCoder> and that dumbass is using BIG gold chain
[04:28:00] <toastyde1th> don't buy a serger unless you need one
[04:28:06] <XXCoder> big loose snaggable chain on wrist
[04:28:23] <toastyde1th> I was making a lot of clothing with semi-strechy fabric
[04:28:28] <toastyde1th> which is what a four thread serger excels at
[04:29:08] <Jymmm> YEah, I need a sewing machine, not a serger.
[04:30:12] <XXCoder> cool
[04:30:34] <Jymmm> I want to make some knife shiefs
[04:30:44] <ssi> that's a pretty easy project
[04:30:53] <ssi> I made some wrench rolls in canvas years ago when I first learned to sew
[04:31:20] <ssi> toastyde1th: that's a fast ass machine heh
[04:31:29] <Jymmm> 3-4 layers of nylon + piping + webbing
[04:31:30] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:31:34] <toastyde1th> that one isn't running full tilt, either
[04:31:40] <XXCoder> yet guys using loose jewelery with it
[04:31:43] <XXCoder> what a dumbass
[04:31:48] <toastyde1th> he has it backed way off
[04:32:01] <XXCoder> sure but I wouldnt even wear
[04:32:08] <XXCoder> not that I wear any in first place
[04:32:12] <ssi> Jymmm: you might oughta get an industrial machine after all
[04:32:27] <ssi> Jymmm: walking foot machines are awesome for thick buildups cause they pull through on the top as well as the bottom
[04:32:44] <toastyde1th> imho an industrial zigzag/walking foot is the way to go unless you REALLY, REALLY want some of the digital features of a home machine
[04:32:57] <ssi> yeah
[04:33:04] <toastyde1th> i realize now i should have bought a zigzag walker instead
[04:33:08] <XXCoder> wire home machine to bigass machine
[04:33:10] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/Singer-CG-550-10-Stitch-Commercial-Machine/dp/B002NREHQ6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
[04:33:45] <Jymmm> I want real steel gears =)
[04:33:47] <ssi> http://www.sailrite.com/Sailrite-111-Sewing-Machine#!Sailrite-111-Sewing-Machine
[04:34:02] <ssi> that's a NICE machine if you don't need zigzag
[04:34:08] <toastyde1th> servo is another good option
[04:34:14] <Jymmm> ssi: Wehn you want to ship that to me for xmas, let me know
[04:34:14] <ssi> my machine is basically exactly that, but no walking foot
[04:34:15] <toastyde1th> because at least on my machine i do not like pure clutch
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[04:34:32] <ssi> toastyde1th: yea I'd love to have servo, it took me awhile to tune my foot to the clutch
[04:34:36] <ssi> and it's still faster than I'd like
[04:34:42] <Jymmm> ssi: I aint paying $$$$ for one
[04:34:56] <ssi> Jymmm: like I said, I paid $400 for mine, and it's basically that machine without walking foot
[04:34:58] <Jymmm> I don't need it THAT much.
[04:35:01] <ssi> with the stand, knee lift, the whole deal
[04:35:04] <ssi> and it's a self-oiling machine
[04:35:06] <ssi> nice shit
[04:35:15] -!- Lathe_newbie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[04:35:23] <ssi> just troll craigslist, they're out there
[04:35:32] <Jymmm> ssi: That's the plan
[04:35:52] <ssi> when I bought this one, I bought it cause he had it listed as a walking foot machine
[04:36:01] <ssi> and like a dumbass, I didn't notice when I went to check it out that it wasn't in fact
[04:36:11] <ssi> but other than that, I'm very happy with it
[04:36:18] <Jymmm> Hmmmm http://www.amazon.com/Singer-Sewing-4432-Extra-High-Stainless/dp/B00JJ6L6PY/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
[04:36:28] <Jymmm> hell of a lot of reviews and cheap too
[04:37:08] <Jymmm> well shit, the worse review answered my question
[04:37:16] <ssi> Jymmm: find out what the heaviest thread it'll take is
[04:37:26] <ssi> for doing webbing work you're gonna want to use V92 probably
[04:38:36] <ssi> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/hsh/4672680009.html
[04:38:50] <ssi> that's a chinese knockoff of the sailrite portables
[04:38:56] <ssi> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/app/4684143958.html
[04:38:57] <ssi> as is that
[04:39:39] <Jymmm> only one stitch?
[04:39:42] <ssi> yeah
[04:39:45] <ssi> how many stitches you need? :)
[04:40:04] <ssi> industrial machines come in two flavors: straight stitch and zigzag
[04:40:10] <Jymmm> straight, zigzag, and a stretch stitch would be nice at least
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[04:40:17] <ssi> only thing I personally need zigzag for is sailmaking
[04:40:28] <ssi> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/tls/4690105821.html
[04:40:30] <toastyde1th> zigzag is sufficient for stretch
[04:40:31] <ssi> THAT is a nice machine
[04:40:55] <Jymmm> better be for $1200 =)
[04:41:46] <Jymmm> HERE WE GO http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/4691956315.html
[04:41:58] <ssi> :D
[04:42:01] <ssi> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/for/4688195262.html
[04:42:03] <zeeshan|2> that has turned into #cncsewing
[04:42:03] <zeeshan|2> :D
[04:42:10] <XXCoder> lol
[04:42:14] <zeeshan|2> :D
[04:42:16] <ssi> we can get off topic on ANYTHING
[04:42:30] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bfs/4685494322.html
[04:43:02] <ssi> there ya go
[04:43:22] <Jymmm> 220VAC isn't it?
[04:43:31] <ssi> doubt it
[04:43:37] <ssi> looks like a similar motor and stand to mine, and mine's 120
[04:44:57] <Jymmm> Hmmm http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/art/4682333249.html
[04:45:14] <Jymmm> looks commercial, never heard of the brand though
[04:45:28] <ssi> probably worth the gamble at that price
[04:45:50] <Jymmm> I have nfc on repairing sewing machines
[04:46:04] <Jymmm> if it was electical problem, in a heartbeat
[04:47:04] <Jymmm> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/hsh/4681294598.html
[04:49:34] <Jymmm> Sounds rough, but for $60 ??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEJVcarFuIE
[04:51:33] <Jymmm> FUCK ME!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9XFGr9Pfc
[04:51:58] <Jymmm> 5000 stitches per minute?!
[04:52:00] <zeeshan|2> i didnt know sewing machines were that expensive
[04:52:23] <Jymmm> zeeshan|2: Some are $4000+
[04:52:30] <Jymmm> USD
[04:53:52] <zeeshan|2> damn
[04:53:55] <zeeshan|2> speaking of money
[04:54:03] <zeeshan|2> i finally got my first CNC Lathe paying job
[04:54:04] <zeeshan|2> :D
[04:54:13] <Jymmm> congrats!
[04:54:26] <zeeshan|2> http://i.imgur.com/F6c4yqb.png
[04:54:31] <zeeshan|2> guy wants 2 of these
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[04:55:20] <zeeshan|2> its like 4 1/2 od
[04:55:24] <zeeshan|2> "
[04:55:58] <zeeshan|2> img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/09/drinking.png
[04:56:10] <zeeshan|2> http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/09/drinking.png
[04:58:41] <Jymmm> Ewww, that's icky... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tldR-wMwnU0
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[04:59:25] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[04:59:28] <zeeshan|2> i have that electric motor
[04:59:32] <zeeshan|2> wit hthe clutch mechanism
[04:59:37] <zeeshan|2> its 3 phase though 240v
[05:01:01] <zeeshan|2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCsZurNJyRc
[05:01:09] <zeeshan|2> i made that video a while back
[05:01:31] <XXCoder> careful guy might not want you to share design pictures
[05:01:48] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: haha fak that
[05:01:52] <zeeshan|2> i made the design for him
[05:01:58] <zeeshan|2> he jus told me what he wants
[05:02:04] <zeeshan|2> and when he needs it buy
[05:02:06] <zeeshan|2> and what material
[05:02:22] <XXCoder> interesting. well I definitely cant share any I made lol its all boeing conifental stuff
[05:02:39] <zeeshan|2> im sure you can take a picture of the part
[05:02:43] <zeeshan|2> just not the detail drawings
[05:02:44] <XXCoder> nope
[05:02:59] <zeeshan|2> do it anyway
[05:02:59] <zeeshan|2> :D
[05:03:18] <XXCoder> lol its all boring anywa
[05:03:38] <XXCoder> very challenging to make for me, but boring result
[05:05:57] <XXCoder> one somewhat interesting part was first made in lathe then it was my turn. very low tol and its a fuel part. unknown how its used
[05:06:19] <XXCoder> its 2 in diameter pipe that turns out to face so it can be mounted into something
[05:06:30] <zeeshan|2> you said you were on an internship
[05:06:38] <zeeshan|2> what are you trying to become?
[05:06:56] <XXCoder> cnc operator. maybe more - like design later
[05:07:12] <zeeshan|2> so draftsperson?
[05:07:30] <XXCoder> dunno right now its cnc operator internship
[05:08:05] <zeeshan|2> have you considered cnc programming
[05:08:09] <zeeshan|2> and cam programming
[05:08:27] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:08:39] <XXCoder> I already use mastercam but only to export .NC file
[05:08:41] <zeeshan|2> they make good money :P
[05:08:51] <zeeshan|2> haha that doesnt count man!
[05:08:57] <XXCoder> then to alter it so it works for machine im using. and also to make it more convient
[05:09:10] <XXCoder> I mean, its zero point is way too far for me to change parts lol
[05:09:28] <zeeshan|2> slap the programmer
[05:09:46] <XXCoder> it always defaults to 0,0,0
[05:09:49] <XXCoder> which is annoying
[05:09:57] <XXCoder> buit literally minute to code this
[05:10:04] <XXCoder> g0 g90
[05:10:13] <XXCoder> g53 x9. y16.
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[05:10:22] <zeeshan|2> at this one company _____ canada inc
[05:10:45] <zeeshan|2> the machine operators were responsible for changing tools, cycle starting, and doing spc measurement checks
[05:10:50] <zeeshan|2> and made 18 bux an hour
[05:10:56] <zeeshan|2> to 22 (depending on years)
[05:11:23] <zeeshan|2> then there were operations technicians that were responsible for machine break downs, training machine operators, making program changes, robots etc
[05:11:32] <zeeshan|2> $28/hr
[05:11:36] <XXCoder> interesting. I do everything myself too
[05:11:45] <XXCoder> tools, setup, everything
[05:11:54] <zeeshan|2> then there were millwrights that were responsible for machine moving, hardcore repair (like a spindle bearing change etc)
[05:11:56] <zeeshan|2> $36/hr
[05:11:58] <XXCoder> I do have to check part then send it to buy off
[05:12:20] <XXCoder> No idea why they call it buy off. almost sounds bribish
[05:12:25] <zeeshan|2> and the manufacturing engineers/managers were around the 42-45bux range
[05:12:34] <zeeshan|2> basically my point is, learn as much as you can :D
[05:12:59] <zeeshan|2> whats a buy off
[05:13:00] <XXCoder> nice indeed. 18 buk a hour is basically doube what I make now at min wage
[05:13:08] <XXCoder> inspection
[05:13:11] <zeeshan|2> XXCoder: but you're doing your internship
[05:13:15] <zeeshan|2> so they can rip you off :P
[05:13:18] <XXCoder> place i work at is very strict on accuracy
[05:13:22] <XXCoder> of course
[05:13:29] <zeeshan|2> oh like it goes to the CMM machine?
[05:13:37] <XXCoder> no theres people
[05:13:40] <zeeshan|2> ah
[05:13:48] <XXCoder> specialist that check and stamp paperwork
[05:14:14] <XXCoder> ironically yeserday both myself and one of those buyoffs fucked up
[05:14:23] <XXCoder> one part ended at .08 and was accurate
[05:14:24] <zeeshan|2> if you have interest and time
[05:14:31] <zeeshan|2> if you havent done this already
[05:14:36] <zeeshan|2> try to download the manuals for your cnc controller
[05:14:36] <XXCoder> well I didnt check back end which was at 0.1 and way fucking off
[05:14:42] <zeeshan|2> and schematics for the machines you run
[05:14:59] <XXCoder> and surpise! buyoff person missed it
[05:15:06] <XXCoder> so i ran all 9 parts
[05:15:18] <zeeshan|2> prolly didnt have coffee :D
[05:15:23] <zeeshan|2> or didnt care haha
[05:15:42] <XXCoder> well my mentor had to come in and help me fix it and it was due today. way fucking headache trying to finish all within 2 hours lol
[05:15:55] <XXCoder> setup to finished
[05:16:49] <XXCoder> probably former because last time I had some mistake it was very minor - one curve of part wasn't deburred
[05:16:58] <XXCoder> and she caught it
[05:17:11] <XXCoder> same person missed the 0.1 error lol
[05:18:07] <zeeshan|2> cant you check the dimensions yourself
[05:18:12] <XXCoder> yeah usually she is very good. no idea why
[05:18:23] <XXCoder> I did. I said both myself and her fucked up
[05:18:34] <zeeshan|2> oh
[05:18:53] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:19:15] <XXCoder> well in least it wasnt 0.07 or lower
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[05:19:27] <XXCoder> that'd be unrepairable and job would have to be restarted and late
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[05:19:47] <zeeshan|2> removing material no problem
[05:19:49] <zeeshan|2> adding material big problem
[05:19:50] <zeeshan|2> :-)
[05:19:54] <XXCoder> indeed
[05:20:06] <XXCoder> thats why I aim for 0.084 or so
[05:20:23] <XXCoder> all fixtures (most common job for machine I use) have that dim
[05:20:52] <XXCoder> tol is 0.01 so below 0.09 to above 0.07 is fine but better close to 0.08
[05:21:54] <zeeshan|2> "?
[05:21:55] <zeeshan|2> mm?
[05:22:01] <XXCoder> "
[05:22:05] <XXCoder> american compamy
[05:22:08] <zeeshan|2> thats a loose tolerance
[05:22:17] <XXCoder> yeah its not that critical
[05:22:37] <XXCoder> couple features has close tol at 0.005
[05:22:47] <zeeshan|2> thats fairly tight
[05:22:47] <zeeshan|2> :D
[05:23:01] <XXCoder> closest I ever did was that fuel thing
[05:23:03] <XXCoder> 0.001
[05:23:06] <zeeshan|2> do you guys do stastical process control (SPC)
[05:23:07] <zeeshan|2> on the parts
[05:23:16] <zeeshan|2> or is it a different part all the time
[05:23:26] <XXCoder> making vice go too tight would ruin part, yet too loose = EM boom
[05:23:41] <XXCoder> my mentor broke one em. I managed to do all without issue. whew
[05:23:59] <XXCoder> SPC dunno its big company
[05:24:18] <XXCoder> 130 parts total in 2 jobs lol no breakage
[05:24:19] <zeeshan|2> wow im so tired
[05:24:24] <zeeshan|2> i spelt statistical wrong
[05:24:44] <zeeshan|2> nice
[05:24:45] <XXCoder> yeah i figured thats what you meant lol
[05:24:53] <zeeshan|2> carbide cutter?
[05:25:12] <XXCoder> most seems to be dark metal or brass type
[05:25:17] <XXCoder> coloring dunno what type
[05:25:28] <XXCoder> so i guess no
[05:26:32] <zeeshan|2> if its golden
[05:26:47] <Tecan> whats a good way to interface linuxemc to a sata port ?
[05:26:51] <zeeshan|2> thats prolly a titanium nitride coating
[05:27:10] <XXCoder> yeah machine I use has 2 that color
[05:27:12] <zeeshan|2> i guess you;d have to weigh it
[05:27:19] <zeeshan|2> to figur eout if its carbide or non carbide
[05:27:23] <zeeshan|2> or just look at the shank of the em
[05:27:29] <XXCoder> short one and very long one thats really loud when its cutting
[05:27:40] <zeeshan|2> prolly viibrating to shit
[05:27:40] <zeeshan|2> haha
[05:27:45] <XXCoder> by loud I mean vibrating so hard yes
[05:28:52] <zeeshan|2> sleep time
[05:29:03] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/1273558_10100489798108172_5430486084508652685_o.jpg
[05:29:07] <ssi> rear seatback covers are done
[05:29:08] <XXCoder> night
[05:29:18] <ssi> need new foam and then I can stretch them on the frames and sew 'em up
[05:29:24] <ssi> they're not perfect, but lots of lessons learned
[05:29:24] <XXCoder> nice
[05:29:34] <ssi> gotta make the rear seat bottoms next, by the time I get to the fronts I'll be a pro
[05:29:42] <XXCoder> that reminds me
[05:29:46] <XXCoder> I need to get seat covers
[05:29:50] <ssi> lul
[05:29:52] <XXCoder> my van seats suck
[05:30:09] <XXCoder> its very good condition but its not confortable to sit on for some reason
[05:30:24] <ssi> heheh
[05:30:33] <XXCoder> I guess some design feature cuts across middle of seat so I can feel it while driving
[05:30:40] <XXCoder> so it gives me "legburn"
[05:32:06] <XXCoder> I will probably use some thick seat cover. dunnp
[05:35:29] <XXCoder> I leave you with this ssi https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1497699_368556409964253_4207830487880564306_n.jpg?oh=b524998b57bbe87784c69c3e40c9da07&oe=54B8CF8A&__gda__=1422424259_37ac759e431da6eb99020d9e7c8a3c3e
[05:35:42] <XXCoder> night
[05:36:11] <ssi> ... thanks?
[05:36:12] <ssi> :D
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[06:51:06] <Deejay> moin
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[12:35:45] <wear> my ground came off my dc servo and voltage fed back through my encoder casing and into my controller, after finding what happened I disconnected the controller and drove the servo. I tried my voltmeter and read 0 dc voltage out; yet when i switched the voltmeter to AC it read 40v. *case to earth* as the motor spun down, the voltage lowered
[12:35:58] <wear> Can anyone explain?
[12:37:55] <wear> or link me to an explaination :)
[12:39:17] <SpeedEvil> pwm?
[12:39:25] <wear> yes
[12:39:39] <wear> is it just reading a phase of the signal dc?
[12:39:46] <wear> or pwm
[12:40:41] <wear> i dont see why it would go out though, short in the motor? or is that fairly common?
[12:44:53] <jdh> sounds like a short to me.
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[14:08:59] <skunkworks__> CaptHindsight, did you get camunits-emc working on wheezy?
[14:09:12] <skunkworks__> (or whatever it is called..)
[14:12:33] <FinboySlick> skunkworks__: Who are you calling a communist?!
[14:12:56] <skunkworks__> heh - my spelling isn't that bad... well..
[14:13:48] <FinboySlick> It'd work better with a Regan-era four star general indignation tone.
[14:14:23] <FinboySlick> Reagan I mean.
[14:15:34] <skunkworks__> 'YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"
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[14:27:35] <archivist_herron> bomb the b...
[14:33:02] <gonzo_> (kenney everet)
[14:34:53] <skunkworks__> must be a britsh thing...
[14:35:34] <skunkworks__> British even..
[14:38:05] <gonzo_> it was indeed
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[15:23:04] <archivist> you forgot Reagans gaff at some studio?
[15:23:08] <ssi> hooray, I got my watch
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[15:26:36] <archivist> skunkworks__, http://www.deseretnews.com/top/103/5/We-begin-bombing-in-five-minutes-Ronald-Reagans-10-best-quotes.html
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[15:53:04] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks__: no, I just backed up PSHA's repos in case they become unreachable due to the recent conflicts
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[15:54:44] <skunkworks__> yeck
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[15:54:52] <skunkworks__> (conflict)
[15:54:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/ he's selling a $1200 cnc mill now
[15:55:42] <zeeshan|2> this guy is going to bring negative spotlight
[15:55:47] <zeeshan|2> to hobby machinists :-(
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[15:57:16] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks__: the testing (squeeze) package installed in Wheezy but I haven't configured it yet
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[15:57:52] <skunkworks__> neat
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[16:01:08] <jdh> lame article
[16:01:23] <jdh> you can finish an 80% lower with a drill press and some jigs
[16:01:39] <CaptHindsight> Jerry Brown, who wrote that he “can’t see how adding a serial number to a homemade gun would significantly advance public safety.”
[16:01:43] <jdh> and you can buy a complete finished lower for $35
[16:01:56] <CaptHindsight> but it's scary
[16:02:05] <CaptHindsight> and we lose some control
[16:02:28] <CaptHindsight> that's the actual issue
[16:02:53] <zeeshan|2> lol jdh
[16:10:50] <ssi> lose control of what?
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[16:14:20] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: it's not too scary
[16:14:26] <zeeshan> because those unregistered guns are still illegal
[16:14:26] <ssi> it's not scary at all
[16:14:31] <ssi> no, no they're not
[16:14:35] <zeeshan> if they get caught with em
[16:14:36] <ssi> and it's not a "loophole"
[16:14:37] <zeeshan> they'll get owned
[16:14:42] <ssi> it's always been legal to manufacture your own guns
[16:14:43] <zeeshan> trying to commit a crime
[16:15:06] <ssi> what's scary is that nanny state morons freak out about stupid crap like this
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[16:15:25] * zeeshan is glad he doesnt live in america :D
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[16:15:34] * ssi is glad zeeshan doesn't live in america
[16:15:42] <zeeshan> the land of shoot first, question later
[16:15:44] <zeeshan> :)
[16:16:00] <ssi> yeah, but only with respect to the cops
[16:16:05] <zeeshan> haha
[16:16:09] <zeeshan> you do that for home protection too
[16:16:17] <zeeshan> if someone is on your property illegaly, you can kill em
[16:16:32] <ssi> you're ill informed about your propoganda
[16:16:43] <zeeshan> you guys can even kill a black kid
[16:16:45] <zeeshan> and it's okay!
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[16:17:06] <ssi> again, only the cops
[16:17:14] <ssi> http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/
[16:17:19] <ssi> how's that for shoot first, ask questions later?
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[16:18:03] <zeeshan> New York Penal Law section 35.15 effectively ordains that:
[16:18:03] <zeeshan>
[16:18:03] <zeeshan> "A person may... use DEADLY physical force upon another person" "when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be NECESSARY to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be .... a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or ROBBERY; or (c) ... a burglary...."
[16:18:03] <zeeshan>
[16:18:17] <zeeshan> lol @ burglary
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[16:18:48] <ssi> yeah, which is why I have laser turrets protecting the cinci, remember?!
[16:18:59] <zeeshan> here if you kill someone for burglary
[16:19:02] <zeeshan> you'll be in prison
[16:19:22] <zeeshan> if someone has a gun to you, and you kill them, it might be justifable
[16:19:28] <zeeshan> you'll still have to go through the court process
[16:19:35] <ssi> that's not any different than here
[16:19:47] <ssi> anyway, I don't have time to argue with your entitled socialist ass today :)
[16:20:01] <ssi> I have a machine to unload
[16:20:06] <CaptHindsight> ssi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwRtll3jjU4 no number is scary :)
[16:20:35] <ssi> CaptHindsight: what about the serial number makes it magically less scary?
[16:21:29] <ssi> I can jam a shotgun shell in a piece of black iron pipe and hit the primer with a tack hammer
[16:21:36] <ssi> should we start regulating iron pipe and tack hammers?!
[16:21:40] <ssi> it's just lunacy
[16:21:57] <CaptHindsight> ssi: exactly, so why would someone representing the state of Ca make an announcement like that?
[16:21:59] <zeeshan> no, but they should be regulatinng the shotgun shell..
[16:22:06] <ssi> ban 3d printers cause you can 3d print stupid useless plastic lowers
[16:22:13] <ssi> ban cnc mills cause you can mill parts
[16:22:15] <ssi> ban hacksaws and files
[16:22:32] <zeeshan> ban them if you're making them to make weapons!
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[16:22:39] <zeeshan> *using
[16:22:43] <ssi> ban mechanical engineers
[16:22:46] <ssi> you can use them to design weapons!
[16:23:18] <CaptHindsight> sure it's all nuts, that's the point, start educating people vs keeping people ignorant and voting against themselves
[16:23:24] <zeeshan> my problem with guns has been with the fast that people feel the need to make/own semi-automatic weapons
[16:23:29] <zeeshan> *facty
[16:23:38] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I suppose I'm not 100% clear on your position on all this :)
[16:23:47] <zeeshan> and even a mentally unstable person like SSI can own a gun
[16:23:47] <zeeshan> !
[16:24:31] <ssi> ugh fine
[16:24:35] <ssi> I should just take pete's advice
[16:24:36] <ssi> and block you
[16:24:52] <zeeshan> thank u
[16:24:57] <CaptHindsight> ssi: I'm pointing out how it's been working so well to keep people scared and ignorant in order to control them
[16:25:02] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I see
[16:25:08] <ssi> it certainly is working
[16:25:19] <ssi> but they don't have to work very hard to keep people ignorant
[16:25:23] <jdh_> fear is good
[16:25:43] <zeeshan> http://d16ao1gdhk6qlj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/rufus.jpg
[16:25:43] <CaptHindsight> I find the comments in the video ridiculous
[16:25:51] <zeeshan> http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/150/594e67a791ce43679b56d5fd3707f5a8/l.jpg
[16:26:03] <zeeshan> https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQM7zKQNmFKsvLoFyLpkEQkUIuCccB2aJUiYFFMU_EHs-FtkYYCg
[16:26:09] <zeeshan> do you really want people like this owning guns? :P
[16:26:18] <zeeshan> especially semi-automatic ones? :D
[16:26:28] <ssi> do you really think you can stop them?
[16:26:32] <jdh_> vs. not semi-automatic?
[16:26:33] <CaptHindsight> but all they have to do is come on TV and scare people with how there's no serial number and anyone cane make one
[16:26:45] <ssi> jdh_: he has no clue what "semi-automatic" even means
[16:26:46] <CaptHindsight> and most people fall for it
[16:26:53] <zeeshan> with at least non semi-automatic
[16:26:56] <gonzo_nb> in the uk, we have some of the tightest gun laws in the world. but they can still be brought illegally. So banning/limiting has little effect, even here
[16:27:01] <zeeshan> he/she can take out a few people
[16:27:03] <zeeshan> before getting caught
[16:27:09] <jdh_> gettign caught by whom?
[16:27:11] <zeeshan> ssi hahah okay buddy
[16:27:16] <zeeshan> jdh authorities
[16:27:22] <ssi> "authorities"
[16:27:24] <jdh_> heh
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[16:27:26] <ssi> like that cop in south carolina
[16:27:30] <ssi> who shot an unarmed man four times
[16:27:32] <jdh_> right. they will come save people!
[16:27:32] <ssi> and only hit him once
[16:27:33] <ssi> in the hip
[16:27:36] <ssi> from less than 10 feet away
[16:27:37] <zeeshan> youre looking at 1 mistake
[16:27:39] <zeeshan> out of 2139012389023189213098231329108
[16:27:40] <ssi> "authorities"
[16:27:44] <zeeshan> non mistakes.
[16:27:46] <zeeshan> relax
[16:28:07] <ssi> you don't know what you're talking about, so just stop
[16:28:49] <jdh_> it's nice you have the authorities to do that.
[16:28:55] <jdh_> do they follow you around?
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[16:29:05] <zeeshan> usually when the weapon is completely discharged
[16:29:10] <zeeshan> even a local hero can step in
[16:29:15] <zeeshan> and subdue the person
[16:29:40] <jdh> good one!
[16:30:53] <ssi> "In tonight's news, local hero zeeshan stepped in and subdued an active shooter by asking him to calculate the deflection of a beam, but only once the shooter's non semi-automatic weapon was fully discharged, eh"
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[16:31:34] <zeeshan> "in tonight's news, ian mcmahon kills 10 with his faulty plane crash"
[16:31:53] <zeeshan> we can keep this going :)
[16:32:14] <zeeshan> if you have any negative comments, you can send them to me in pm, and i will return them in pm. let's keep them out of the public channel
[16:32:58] <ssi> what about what I said was negative?
[16:33:10] <ssi> I was praising your heroism
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[16:34:11] <zeeshan> http://bennetttruckrentals.com/flatbed.php
[16:34:13] <ssi> ugh now you've made me late
[16:34:18] <zeeshan> i wonder if i can use a truck like this to unload
[16:34:27] <zeeshan> just by tilting the bed
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[16:38:48] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/mississauga-peel-region/mori-seiki-tv-300-cnc-vertical-machining-center-drill-tap/1020099795
[16:38:52] <zeeshan> i bet this this eats aluminuim
[16:38:55] <zeeshan> like its nothing
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[16:48:23] <archivist> zeeshan, needs a winch to be safe
[16:51:21] <archivist> or make up a hitch to two tie down points so you can attach a tirfor (come along) to a mid point to let it down
[16:52:05] <zeeshan> i dont think it has a hitch
[16:52:09] <zeeshan> er winch
[16:52:31] <zeeshan> im torn between my two options
[16:52:37] <zeeshan> if i get a hydraulic flatbed, its going to cost
[16:52:58] <zeeshan> $210 in diesel, and $366 in rental fees
[16:53:00] <zeeshan> roughly
[16:53:16] <zeeshan> if i get a box truck, itll cost 150 in diesel, and $250 in rental fees
[16:54:01] <archivist> box truck should use more deseasal, it has to push more air
[16:54:15] <zeeshan> youre right
[16:54:22] <zeeshan> but the flatbed is about 150 miles out of the way
[16:54:22] <zeeshan> to get it
[16:54:31] <zeeshan> while the box truck is 5 miles away
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[16:56:38] <archivist> exceedingly difficult to load/unload a box truck with a heavy lump
[16:56:49] <zeeshan> yes =/
[16:57:01] <zeeshan> he said he can load it easily to it
[16:57:04] <zeeshan> but unloading might be a pain
[16:57:05] <zeeshan> haha
[16:59:45] <archivist> make bolt on wheel assembly so the mill becomes a trailer
[17:01:25] <Jymmm> Autonomous slef-driving, navigation., and collision avoidance.
[17:01:57] <archivist> needs to retrofit before it drives itself home then
[17:02:13] <Jymmm> self replicating?
[17:02:26] <Jymmm> / repairing
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[17:03:35] <Jymmm> Mill and mini-mill (finger to corner of mouth)
[17:03:40] <archivist> I am thinking if the trailers that have two beams and end bogies that move large transformers
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[17:04:52] <Jymmm> transformers as in mains or robots from outter space?
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[17:08:17] <archivist> mains/power station
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[17:09:53] <zeeshan> archivist: thats not a bad idea at all
[17:09:57] <zeeshan> im going to use the jack
[17:10:03] <zeeshan> bottle jack and machine dolies
[17:10:09] <zeeshan> and move it around on the truck
[17:10:21] <zeeshan> but guess what, i endded up just renting the flat bed
[17:10:24] <zeeshan> it'll save the hassle :P
[17:16:46] <zeeshan> YAY
[17:16:49] <zeeshan> i just called the place
[17:17:05] <zeeshan> theyre giving me 200 free km
[17:17:16] <zeeshan> and a discounted rental rate
[17:17:21] <zeeshan> cause im putting 1100 km on the truck
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[17:43:37] <zeeshan> http://www.shars.com/files/products/404-7164/404-7164C.jpg
[17:43:50] <zeeshan> is there a good reason why these boring bars are flat
[17:44:26] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/PzvIoGH.jpg
[17:44:31] <zeeshan> when i was making that part on the lathe
[17:44:44] <zeeshan> the flat face was rubbing along that inner feature =/
[17:45:23] <skunkworks__> angle it a bit...
[17:45:30] <zeeshan> can't
[17:45:38] <zeeshan> ill lose my tool positions for the parting tool
[17:45:40] <zeeshan> and other tools
[17:45:49] <skunkworks__> ah
[17:46:16] <skunkworks__> it is then the wrong tool for this situation
[17:48:16] <Tom_itx> new virus out that affects bash
[17:48:26] <Tom_itx> fwiw
[17:48:48] -!- Tom_L [Tom_L!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:48:57] <Tom_L> http://www.electronicproducts.com/Software/System/New_Shellshock_virus_considered_1_000_times_worse_than_Heartbleed_bug_could_affect_at_least_500M_computers.aspx
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[17:49:08] <skunkworks__> Tom_itx, link? (to the article - not the virus..)
[17:49:12] <skunkworks__> thanks
[17:49:14] <Tom_L> ^^
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[17:52:52] <zeeshan> so does it only effect computers
[17:52:55] <zeeshan> that also have apache installed?
[17:53:31] <Tom_itx> dunno, i'm just the messenger
[17:53:34] <zeeshan> hehe
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[18:13:25] <Tom_itx> there is a patch for it
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[18:13:59] <Tom_itx> <LeoNerd> The underlying problem was a very flawed design of a little-used little-understood feature hardly anyone ever wanted
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[18:22:11] <jdh> any at&t uverse knowledge? vs. TW cable?
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[18:22:45] <Jymmm> jdh: such as?
[18:23:28] <jdh> speed? latency? reliability?
[18:24:53] <Deejay> choose 2 ;)
[18:25:06] <Jymmm> reliaility is good, only down for maintaince on sundays at 1am for a couple of hours periodically. Only had two major outagges in 4 years for less than 8 hours
[18:25:27] <Jymmm> Their DNS sucks, use your own.
[18:26:09] <Jymmm> latency, eh, probably not for gaming, but I suspect that's a DNS thing more than anythign else.
[18:26:20] <Jymmm> I can stream netflix fine.
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[18:26:44] <jdh> do you use their teevee stuff?
[18:26:52] <Jymmm> nope
[18:27:00] <Jymmm> just data
[18:27:22] <Jymmm> I had it for 90 days in the beginning, it waas fine.
[18:28:05] <Jymmm> What's the difference between regular and cable tv? It just take syou longer to find out there's STILL nothing on =)
[18:28:33] <jdh> my wife watches tv
[18:28:37] <Jymmm> I don't even have cable anymore, I put up an antenna
[18:28:50] <jdh> first time we have ever had a choice between TimeWarner/RR and anything else.
[18:29:26] <Jymmm> You can stream so much stuff these days it's crazy.... crackle.com free movies
[18:30:22] <Jymmm> $100 to put up an antenna. Paid for itself in 90 days.
[18:30:34] <jdh> not much around here.
[18:30:52] <Jymmm> The transmittes here are 50 miles away.
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[18:31:10] <jdh> not much within 90 miles of here
[18:31:24] <Jymmm> have you checked?
[18:31:30] <Jymmm> there are maps
[18:31:46] <jdh> nope. what maps?
[18:32:21] <jdh> in a 50 mile radius, over half is ocean, another 20% swamp/river
[18:32:28] <Jymmm> http://www.antennapoint.com/
[18:32:30] <Connor> jdh: PetefromTn_ Just ordered the stock for the ballscrew mounts, column and head extension.
[18:33:05] <jdh> cool
[18:33:14] <jdh> I'd think you would be able to find scrap around there.
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[18:34:29] <jdh> jymm: cool, but not much here. Only 5 and one is PBS. and ION, wtf that is.
[18:34:48] <Jymmm> ION is pretty cool.
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[18:36:29] <roycroft> i mostly watch pbs, discovery, and the history channel
[18:36:42] <roycroft> i get basic cable, which includes those channels, for $3/month
[18:36:55] <Jymmm> jdh: THIS is the one I was talking about I couldn't remember http://tvfool.com/
[18:37:04] <roycroft> it's actually $13/month, but i have cablemodem service, and they discount the internet bit $10/month if you have ctv as well
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[18:37:08] <Connor> jdh: Probably is getting out to find them.. was just easier to order.
[18:37:22] <Connor> jdh: Err. Problem not Probably.
[18:37:29] <Jymmm> roycroft: So, what is your total monthly bill?
[18:37:33] <roycroft> i don't know
[18:37:36] <roycroft> my boss pays it
[18:37:37] <Jymmm> lol
[18:37:41] <Jymmm> ah
[18:37:42] <roycroft> since i work from home a lot
[18:37:51] <jdh> I had a 25% off $100 from onlinemetals
[18:37:58] <roycroft> i think it's a bit over $100/month - cablemodem service is expensive
[18:38:20] <jdh> $45/month here for roadrunner
[18:38:28] <jdh> plus $100 in misc other cable crap
[18:38:40] <roycroft> oh, i watch the daily show and the colbert report too
[18:38:48] <roycroft> so i guess add comedy central to my list
[18:38:49] <Jymmm> I pay NOTHING a month for cable =)
[18:39:04] <roycroft> i think it's worth $3/month for what i get
[18:39:08] <PetefromTn_> Connor Sounds good man glad you finally got what you needed.
[18:39:08] <roycroft> i would not want to pay more though
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[18:39:18] <Jymmm> $50/mo for 18/2 data for uverse
[18:39:49] <Connor> PetefromTn_: $133.37 total to the door.
[18:39:56] <roycroft> i pay $30/month for unlimited data on my ipad
[18:40:05] <PetefromTn_> does that include the big stuff
[18:40:13] <roycroft> and i use very little bandwidth on the ipad
[18:40:21] <roycroft> 3g is too slow for streaming stuff
[18:40:26] <Jymmm> roycroft: It's never "unlimited" =)
[18:40:28] <Connor> Yup. The cast iron and the 3" x 5" x 8" Alumn spacer block
[18:40:28] <roycroft> so i only stream to it when i'm at home on my wifi network
[18:40:32] <roycroft> mine is, jymmm
[18:40:38] <roycroft> it's the old grandfathered rate
[18:40:44] <roycroft> i'm afraid to drop it because of that
[18:40:46] <Jymmm> roycroft: Yeah, 4g?
[18:40:46] <PetefromTn_> wow how did you manage that?
[18:40:55] <Connor> roycroft: ATT?
[18:40:56] <roycroft> the new $30 plan is limited
[18:40:57] <roycroft> yes
[18:41:03] <roycroft> the old at&t unlimited plan
[18:41:07] <Connor> I have 2 Iphones with the same plan.
[18:41:15] <roycroft> i bought my ipad two days before they ended the plan
[18:41:21] <Jymmm> ah
[18:41:23] <roycroft> it's 3g
[18:41:24] <Connor> only problem is.. they can throttle you after so many GIGs
[18:41:52] <roycroft> i don't think i could consume that much bandwidth in a month on their crappy 3g system, connor
[18:42:09] <Connor> I think it's like 5GB
[18:42:10] <roycroft> i mainly use the 3g connection to check email and do light web surfing when i'm away from home
[18:42:12] <Connor> But.. Don't recall
[18:42:24] <Jymmm> roycroft: To me 3g IS limited, speed wise.
[18:42:28] <roycroft> occasionally i have to vpn into a work network to fix something when i'm not home
[18:42:41] <Connor> I have my 4S Jailbroken and can use it as a WiFi hotspot
[18:43:12] <roycroft> my new iphone is on sprint (the old one was on at&t)
[18:43:23] <roycroft> and the sprint 3g network is way faster than the at&t one around here
[18:43:43] <roycroft> so i find myself tethering my macbook pro to my iphone more often than using the ipad these days
[18:43:52] <Connor> I'm still running iOS 5.0.1
[18:43:53] <Connor> :(
[18:43:59] <roycroft> i have the original ipad
[18:44:12] <roycroft> i have whatever the latest ios that runs on it is
[18:44:15] <roycroft> 5 or 6
[18:44:32] <Connor> I'll upgrade to the 6 as soon as iOS 8 is jailbroken.
[18:44:41] <Connor> iPhone 6 on iOS 7
[18:44:45] <Connor> er iOS 8
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[18:45:32] <jdh> the steve would be sad if you JB it
[18:45:38] <roycroft> 5.1.1
[18:45:57] <_methods> http://xenbits.xen.org/xsa/advisory-108.html
[18:45:58] <roycroft> i haven't updated my iphone to ios 8 yet
[18:46:02] <Connor> iPad and iPhone only Apple products I own.. I'm not a Apple Fan Boy
[18:46:03] <_methods> if any of you are using xen
[18:46:08] <roycroft> i need to make sure my critical apps run on ios 8
[18:46:15] <_methods> they finally released that advisory
[18:47:01] <roycroft> i use macs, but i would not consider myself an apple fanboi
[18:47:05] <roycroft> i think by definition i'm not
[18:47:13] <roycroft> my ipad is 4 years old
[18:47:20] <roycroft> my iphone is a couple years old
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[18:49:26] <roycroft> my mac pro is six years old
[18:49:36] <roycroft> my macbook pro was six years old before i just got a new one
[18:49:49] <roycroft> if i were a fanboi none of that gear would be more than a year old
[18:50:05] <roycroft> i've also never queued up outside an apple store to buy anything
[18:50:43] <Jymmm> lmao
[18:51:01] <roycroft> i also complain about apple stupidity a lot :)
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[18:58:03] <roycroft> apple vs. microsoft is like democrats vs. republicans
[18:58:11] <roycroft> all you can do is choose the lesser of two evils
[18:58:24] <roycroft> so you pick what you pick and you stick by it, logic be damned
[18:58:57] <_methods> you mean you can't pick the right product based on your needs?
[18:59:10] <roycroft> not if the right product does not exist
[18:59:42] <roycroft> so you pick the product that you think will cause you to make the fewest compromises
[18:59:53] <_methods> you pick the right tool for the job
[19:00:01] <_methods> they're all tools
[19:00:03] <roycroft> yes, when that tool exists
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[19:00:20] <_methods> i don't use bsd for my every day box
[19:00:29] <_methods> but i sure as fuck use it for my UTM/firewall
[19:00:31] <roycroft> when it doesn't you pick the tool that's closest to what you need
[19:01:06] <_methods> i'd use linux for everything if i could use solidworks and mastercam on linux
[19:01:21] <roycroft> i use linux as little as possible
[19:01:21] <Jymmm> VM's
[19:01:22] <_methods> but alas i'm stranded in windows land
[19:01:22] <roycroft> i hate it
[19:01:35] <roycroft> but i use openbsd for most of my servers
[19:02:20] <roycroft> i should qualify my linux dislike to say it's not linux per se that i dislike so much it's linux coders/maintainers and the linux culture that i dislike
[19:02:24] <_methods> yeah i use vm's i actually probably could go all linux at this point
[19:02:33] <roycroft> linux has actually gotten fairly decent
[19:02:37] <_methods> but 4 monitors on linux is still a pain in the ass
[19:02:45] <roycroft> in spite of the coders/maintainers
[19:03:07] <roycroft> when this gnu thing totally blows up linux is going to be a nightmare again
[19:03:25] <mozmck> I don't know much about the linux culture, but I sure don't like what I've seen of the windows or especially mac culture :)
[19:03:30] <roycroft> and i fully expect the a huge gnu blowup, after the bash bugs and how the fsf handeled them
[19:03:51] <roycroft> windows users are stubborn idiots
[19:03:55] <roycroft> mac users are helpless idiots
[19:03:57] <roycroft> for the most part
[19:05:01] <mozmck> :) and all software is junk!
[19:05:35] <roycroft> pretty much
[19:06:49] <rythmnbls> another bash patch released today
[19:07:01] <roycroft> no
[19:07:10] <roycroft> i just spent all day yesterday applying patches again
[19:07:16] <_methods> heheh
[19:07:20] <_methods> all distros?
[19:07:25] <roycroft> i've spent this morning making ksh behave like bash
[19:07:41] <rythmnbls> i dont think its security related, http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/bash/bash-4.2-patches/bash42-051
[19:07:43] <PetefromTn_> I talk to folks from several different camps... SSI for instance is a HUGE Apple junkie, Connor apparenlty can go either way with it, I have not really used anything but windoze but I am not programming shit every day either
[19:07:50] <roycroft> i have about 60 servers that i maintain
[19:08:00] <roycroft> running a mix of operating systems and versions
[19:08:08] <roycroft> i can't realistically just apply patches
[19:08:09] <PetefromTn_> Personally I would use apple or otherwise systems but it seems they are quite proud of them judging by their price tags.
[19:08:27] <roycroft> it's actually faster and easier for me to rebuild from patched source on all the machines
[19:08:31] <_methods> man bang for the buck it's a total rip off
[19:08:42] <_methods> you can get a way better machine for a fraction of the price
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[19:08:44] <roycroft> and at least 75% of them are running bsd
[19:08:46] <PetefromTn_> My stepson bought a top level mac laptop awhile back
[19:08:50] <_methods> you're payin for shiny with apple
[19:09:01] <roycroft> so when i get ksh configured they way i want i can remove bash from 75% or so of the servers
[19:09:02] <PetefromTn_> and it was honestly cool and all aluminum and whatnot.
[19:09:07] <PetefromTn_> but it does not work now...
[19:09:09] * roycroft will not discuss the illusion of apple tax here
[19:09:20] <PetefromTn_> Did not last any longer than my windows8 laptop has.. and it still works.
[19:09:33] <PetefromTn_> what is BSD?
[19:09:40] <roycroft> it's a derivative of unix
[19:09:51] <roycroft> it dates back to about 1980
[19:09:54] <PetefromTn_> an operating system
[19:10:00] <roycroft> yes
[19:10:28] <PetefromTn_> talking to ssi he basically said that anything business runs on apple and apple products and programs
[19:10:36] <_methods> lol
[19:10:43] <roycroft> that is not in the least bit true
[19:10:50] <PetefromTn_> that may or may not be true but if it is then why do they not get support from the big cad cam systems?
[19:11:14] <SpeedEvil> It is in some industries
[19:11:21] <PetefromTn_> not calling him out or questioning him here understand
[19:11:42] <roycroft> yes, but "some industries" is not "anything business"
[19:11:54] <PetefromTn_> but It seems like everywhere I go I see windows systems on companies computers...
[19:11:59] <mozmck> I program and do electronics design almost exclusively on linux.
[19:12:11] <roycroft> not that autocad is a "big cad" system (it's actually an entry level professional cad system)
[19:12:14] <PetefromTn_> I know linux has a HUGE following for programmer types
[19:12:20] <roycroft> but autocad does run on mac os again now
[19:12:29] <roycroft> i don't know why they withdrew from that market in the first place
[19:12:36] <PetefromTn_> autocad used to be a giant in industry
[19:12:47] <_methods> autodesk still is
[19:12:50] <PetefromTn_> in some ways they still ar
[19:12:51] <PetefromTn_> are
[19:12:54] <roycroft> autocad is widely deployed
[19:13:07] <roycroft> it easily has the biggest installed base of any cad software
[19:13:07] <_methods> inventor, 3dsmax, maya
[19:13:13] <PetefromTn_> so yeah does it get support on an apple product?
[19:13:15] <roycroft> but it's still pretty basic stuff, from a professional level
[19:13:17] <_methods> i'd say they are major players still
[19:13:19] <mozmck> apple probably has a lead in media industries still. I worked at a place that had a press, and the design guys all used macs
[19:13:22] <roycroft> yes, autocad runs on os x
[19:14:04] <PetefromTn_> I think if you are into any sort of graphics design or media like TV or video gaming then yeah the apple systems excel.
[19:14:09] <PetefromTn_> apparently anyways..
[19:14:15] <mozmck> Yes, but that's certainly not all industry.
[19:14:31] <roycroft> actually, mac os was not until recently a good gaming development system
[19:14:53] <roycroft> but for graphic design and for film editing it has always been the preferred platform
[19:14:55] <PetefromTn_> I am not talking about PLAYING games on it.
[19:15:06] <roycroft> even moreso since sgi went under
[19:15:31] <mozmck> It was not even really an option for industrial stuff either as far as I know - probably still isn't.
[19:16:20] <roycroft> i remember touring a large nuclear-equipped navy ship a few years ago
[19:16:29] <roycroft> that was running windows nt to control everything
[19:16:36] <mozmck> scary
[19:16:37] <roycroft> and i was on the bridge and saw a bsod
[19:16:46] <PetefromTn_> Interesting.. He seemed to think that if you use apple products there is a seamlessness to working between them that is missing on other options.
[19:17:03] <roycroft> this is true, petefromtn_
[19:17:13] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Who?
[19:17:15] <roycroft> apple excel at intergrating their various products
[19:17:25] <PetefromTn_> that there are always patches and downloads necessary to use windows and android stuff..
[19:17:30] <PetefromTn_> ssi
[19:17:38] <roycroft> i use apple products for serveral reasons
[19:18:04] <roycroft> 1. user interface computers to me are just tools these days - i'm way past being intersted in tinkering with them
[19:18:05] <PetefromTn_> so he may have a point about that aspect of it then.
[19:18:12] <roycroft> and i can buy a mac, plug it in, turn it on, and start working
[19:18:26] <roycroft> 2. mac os x is a mach kernel with a bsd userland - it's unix under the hood
[19:18:38] <roycroft> i've been a unix user since 1977, so it's very familiar to me
[19:18:57] <roycroft> 3. in spite of what people say about cost, apple hardware/software is a good value
[19:19:28] <PetefromTn_> I do not have that much apple experience really so I honestly don't know... It is interesting to see differing viewpoints.
[19:19:32] <roycroft> i like high quality hardware, and pricing equivalent quality peecees i find they're similar to apple
[19:19:46] <roycroft> apple are a little more on some things, but not by a huge amount
[19:20:04] <roycroft> and the convenience of just opening the box and starting work is worth a little more money to me
[19:20:05] <PetefromTn_> it depends I suppose on the item in question.
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[19:20:14] <PetefromTn_> some of their laptops are quite expensive.
[19:20:33] <roycroft> my current mbp was about $2500
[19:20:55] <PetefromTn_> what does a top of the line brand new MBP cost fully equipped?
[19:21:29] <roycroft> it has a 1TB ssd, 16GB of ram, and a beautiful 15" retina display (2880x1800)
[19:21:35] <roycroft> mine's pretty much top of the line
[19:21:55] <roycroft> 2.3GHz 8 cores
[19:21:56] <PetefromTn_> my last laptop was a 17+ incher and I REALLY liked that larger screen
[19:22:25] <roycroft> and i can tell you, solidworks absolutely screams when doing rendering on this mbp
[19:22:26] <PetefromTn_> My current one is a toshiba and it is not as large and I kinda wish I got that larger screen sometimes.
[19:22:31] <roycroft> it's wicked wicked fast
[19:22:47] <PetefromTn_> yeah wish I could afford Solidworks
[19:22:52] <roycroft> people say they can get a 15" windows laptop for $400
[19:22:55] <roycroft> and i say yeah
[19:23:05] <roycroft> but it's not going to be anything like my mbp
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[19:23:07] <roycroft> not even remotely
[19:23:08] <_methods> a fool and his money are soon parted
[19:23:13] <_methods> that's another saying
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[19:23:24] <PetefromTn_> meaning?
[19:23:46] <roycroft> solidworks was a big chunk of change - fortunately work paid for my license
[19:23:54] <roycroft> i think it cost about $6k
[19:24:13] <roycroft> but we got a contract that paid for the license
[19:24:31] <PetefromTn_> what kind of work do you do that you are in charge of all these servers yet you need solidworks paid for by your employer?
[19:25:04] <roycroft> my boss won't pay for maintenance, though
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[19:25:16] <roycroft> i'm a fiber optic designer, and i do both engineering and it work
[19:25:32] <PetefromTn_> sounds interesting
[19:25:40] <roycroft> much if it is very mundane
[19:25:49] <roycroft> occasionally it's interesting
[19:25:53] <PetefromTn_> let me know if you need any CNC machine work LOL
[19:26:03] <roycroft> and i could have done the work for that job in autocad
[19:26:08] <roycroft> but i wanted solidworks
[19:26:14] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: as in comms or lasers?
[19:26:18] <roycroft> comms
[19:26:19] <PetefromTn_> solidworks is awesome for usre
[19:26:20] <SpeedEvil> err
[19:26:24] <SpeedEvil> power
[19:26:33] <PetefromTn_> sure
[19:26:39] <roycroft> i do mostly underground fiber backbones
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[19:26:45] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: do you design lamps like these? http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/Product_78/Blue-Fiber-Optic-Lamp-SZSP191078.jpg
[19:26:53] <roycroft> so it's more civil engineering than fiber engineering
[19:26:58] <roycroft> no, capthindsight
[19:27:03] <PetefromTn_> LOL I love those lamps hehe
[19:27:05] <roycroft> without even bothering to look at the url i know i don't :)
[19:27:39] <roycroft> we had a job for a municiplality doing some outside plant work
[19:27:42] <_methods> need a lava lamp with that
[19:28:00] <PetefromTn_> I got my daugher a cool lava lamp
[19:28:02] <_methods> lavalamp fiber lamp combo
[19:28:10] <roycroft> and there were several areas that had tons of utilities in the ground, and we had to do some fairly fancy design to weave our stuff around the existing stuff
[19:28:16] <PetefromTn_> we seldom use it for fear of how hot it gets LOL
[19:28:30] <roycroft> i could have done it with autocad 2008, but i really needed 3d capability to do it right
[19:28:36] <roycroft> and 3d on acad 2008 sucked
[19:28:53] <roycroft> interestingly, i evaluated inventor and solidworks
[19:29:03] <roycroft> thinking inventor would be better since it's an autodesk product
[19:29:18] <roycroft> but i found that i could import my dwg files into solidworks a lot more easily than importing them into inventor
[19:29:51] <CaptHindsight> I've used NX, Catia, Solidworks and few others but never got the hang of Autocad
[19:29:55] <PetefromTn_> huh.. I never had any problems importing .dxf files into solidworks when I had access to it.
[19:30:12] <roycroft> autodesk were also not helpful in transitioning us from acad to inventor
[19:30:18] <roycroft> as in, they wanted full retail for inventor
[19:30:26] <roycroft> which was around $5500, iirc
[19:30:36] <roycroft> solidworks professional was only a few hundred dollars more
[19:30:48] <_methods> a pro seat was only $6k?
[19:30:58] <roycroft> right, petefromtn_ - it was easy importing into solidworks
[19:31:03] <roycroft> i think so
[19:31:08] <roycroft> i didn't buy it - my boss did
[19:31:12] <_methods> well you got a real good deal then
[19:31:13] <roycroft> but he was negotiating with them
[19:31:20] <_methods> pretty sure basic is $6k
[19:31:30] <roycroft> well i know i have 2012 pro
[19:31:34] <PetefromTn_> damn thats a lot of money..
[19:31:37] <_methods> pro is depending on all the modules you get can be quite a bit
[19:31:40] <CaptHindsight> do they sell through dealers or just direct?
[19:31:56] <_methods> usually a bare pro seat is $8-10k
[19:32:12] <PetefromTn_> what makes pro pro?
[19:32:25] <roycroft> they knew we were looking at inventor too
[19:32:26] <_methods> some features
[19:32:31] <_methods> sheet metal feature
[19:32:35] <roycroft> perhaps they had some kind of switch promot
[19:32:35] <_methods> imports
[19:32:41] <roycroft> yeah, i have sheet metal
[19:32:49] <PetefromTn_> for instance if I just wanted the 3d modeling and could give a shit about FEA and other stuff does that still mean pro?
[19:32:51] <roycroft> and the parts/weldments library
[19:32:51] <CaptHindsight> isn't it the simulation and evaluation tools that make it Pro?
[19:32:57] <_methods> no there are some things in sheet metal you can only do with pro
[19:33:05] <roycroft> i don't use most of that stuff
[19:33:17] <_methods> a lot of pro features are in importing
[19:33:23] <roycroft> i was doing a lot of pipe layout with it
[19:33:29] <_methods> featurworks
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[19:33:45] <roycroft> lunch time
[19:33:49] <PetefromTn_> I don't do any sheetmetal or FEA of pipe or weldments with it.
[19:34:01] <_methods> yeah then you'd be fine with basic
[19:34:06] <PetefromTn_> I would only need to be able to model 3d parts
[19:34:14] <_methods> dude inventor is free
[19:34:16] <PetefromTn_> for CNC milling and turning.
[19:34:19] <zeeshan> roycroft: have you tried inventor sheet metal
[19:34:22] <zeeshan> vs solidworks sheet metal
[19:34:23] <PetefromTn_> free how?
[19:34:29] <_methods> just go to student
[19:34:32] <_methods> they don't even check
[19:34:40] <_methods> you don't even need a .edu
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[19:34:54] <PetefromTn_> ah
[19:34:56] <_methods> http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/all
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[19:35:34] <zeeshan> who needs inventor
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[19:35:40] <zeeshan> i can hook them up with a college pass
[19:35:42] <_methods> damn 3 year license free now lol
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[19:35:52] <_methods> used to be 1 year
[19:36:01] <_methods> now they give you a 3 year free license sweet
[19:36:57] <zeeshan> i love inventor sheet metal
[19:37:09] <zeeshan> its so easy to use
[19:38:53] <_methods> http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/3d-cad/3d-cad-matrix.htm
[19:39:01] <_methods> that's the diff between the solidworks versions
[19:39:41] <zeeshan> standard isnt even worth it
[19:39:47] <_methods> why not
[19:40:03] <zeeshan> you get none of the awesome stuff
[19:40:06] <zeeshan> like pipe routing
[19:40:12] <zeeshan> wire haneses
[19:40:14] <zeeshan> i use motion analysis a lot
[19:40:22] <_methods> that's great
[19:40:25] <_methods> most people don't
[19:40:29] <_methods> they just need to make parts
[19:40:29] <zeeshan> i dont think it even comes with the toolbox
[19:40:32] <_methods> and make sure it fits
[19:40:38] <zeeshan> with a hardware database
[19:40:45] <zeeshan> if youre just doing that
[19:40:47] <zeeshan> why not use inventor
[19:40:50] <zeeshan> or freecad
[19:40:57] <zeeshan> something cheaper
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[19:41:11] <_methods> can you mate parts in freecad?
[19:41:16] <zeeshan> i dont know, i havent used it :P
[19:41:27] <_methods> as far as i know you can't
[19:41:36] <zeeshan> how can it call itself a cad software then
[19:41:37] <zeeshan> :-(
[19:41:37] <_methods> unless they've added that functionality recently
[19:42:02] <zeeshan> _methods: are you a hardcore solidworks user?
[19:42:04] <_methods> it works fine for a free solution to parametrically model parts
[19:42:10] <_methods> yeah i use solidworks every day
[19:42:19] <zeeshan> do you know the escape trick?
[19:42:22] <zeeshan> and last command?
[19:42:24] <_methods> nope
[19:42:29] <zeeshan> so when you're drawing a line
[19:42:37] <_methods> i don't use half it's features or shortcuts lol
[19:42:39] <zeeshan> usually it forces you to continue drawing it right?
[19:42:43] <_methods> no
[19:42:47] <_methods> i double click
[19:42:50] <PetefromTn_> actually yes Freecad can mate parts and there is an assembly branch now that is somewhat working.
[19:43:10] <_methods> ah then freecad is an even better legit option then
[19:43:15] <zeeshan> do you double click
[19:43:19] <zeeshan> and then press the line button
[19:43:24] <zeeshan> on the navigator?
[19:43:26] <_methods> yeah i double click to end line
[19:43:31] <_methods> no i just hit l
[19:43:46] <zeeshan> try this one
[19:43:47] <zeeshan> escape
[19:43:49] <zeeshan> then enter
[19:43:55] <zeeshan> enter repeats the last command
[19:44:04] <zeeshan> so you dont have to specifically pick what you're trying to draw again
[19:44:15] <zeeshan> also if you wanna use less clicks
[19:44:25] <zeeshan> you can also draw the line while holding the left mouse button the entire time
[19:44:26] <zeeshan> and release it
[19:44:32] <zeeshan> and it'll allow you to draw a line else where
[19:45:58] <zeeshan> how about this opne
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[19:46:15] <zeeshan> if you want a plane thats offset from the front plane
[19:46:26] <zeeshan> press left ctrl and select the plane and drag it out
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[20:34:36] <zeeshan> all tool offsets working
[20:34:50] <zeeshan> i think for me personally, the best to to setup tool offsets is manually
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[20:35:25] <zeeshan> you have your reference tool that is zero'ed relative to your lathe centerline
[20:35:41] <zeeshan> then youi load the the other tools, check out how much you need to offset them by
[20:35:46] <zeeshan> ssi's technique works
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[21:18:24] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:07:28] <mblaszkiewicz> Hi everyone. I have a quick question. I'm tuning my servos and wondering where the p value ussually is. I'm upto 50 with no oscilation
[23:08:07] <PCW> depends on output scaling
[23:09:25] <mblaszkiewicz> I have 1 to 1
[23:09:26] <PCW> if scaling is "normalized" (so output is scaled in machine unit per second of velocity)
[23:09:28] <PCW> its easier to compare
[23:09:56] <mblaszkiewicz> direct drive from the servo motor to the ball screw
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[23:10:50] <PCW> the scaling I mean is the analog output scaling
[23:11:00] <mblaszkiewicz> my ini file shows outpt scale at 10.0
[23:12:36] <mblaszkiewicz> what would a good start point be for adjusting the p value
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[23:13:20] <PCW> right, that volts which really doesn't make much sense
[23:13:53] <PCW> No way to know unless you first normalize your scale
[23:14:15] <mblaszkiewicz> how do i do that
[23:17:10] <PCW> first you need to know how fast your axis move at 10V
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[23:22:21] <mblaszkiewicz> 3000 rpm .2 per rev
[23:24:29] <mblaszkiewicz> 780 ish ipm per the manual
[23:28:14] <mblaszkiewicz> upto 200 and no ossilation
[23:28:23] <mblaszkiewicz> does that sound right
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[23:33:53] <mblaszkiewicz> Are you still here pcw
[23:42:55] <PCW> Yeah so if you want comparable PID values you would set the
[23:42:56] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_SCALE 780
[23:42:58] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT -780
[23:43:00] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT 780
[23:43:02] <PCW> assuming a inch machine
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[23:44:20] <PCW> oops replace 780 with 13 (its IPS)
[23:45:32] <PetefromTn_> PCW... Why does the minimum limit need to be negative?
[23:47:38] <PCW> because we want bipolar (+ and -) outputs
[23:48:08] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_SCALE 13
[23:48:09] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT -13
[23:48:09] <PetefromTn_> I am NOT good with servo tuning
[23:48:11] <PCW> [AXIS_0]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT 13
[23:48:27] <PetefromTn_> I need to check my Z out to see if that is what I have on it.
[23:48:37] <PetefromTn_> and X and Y for that matter
[23:49:58] <mblaszkiewicz> one other question. I changed my spindle to output number 5 as you suggested. I can't get it to start now
[23:51:58] <PCW> scaling correctly is a nicety but if you dont you cannot compare PID values from other machines
[23:52:00] <PCW> (a inch machine will have much lower PID values than a mm machine if not scaled)
[23:52:49] <PCW> analog out 5 has a separate enable pin (since its intended for spindle use)
[23:53:31] <mblaszkiewicz> at 150 got that bad vibration
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[23:53:44] <mblaszkiewicz> and how do I enable pin 5
[23:54:41] <PCW> analog out 5 has a hal pin (might be called spinenable, dont recall off hand)
[23:56:48] <PetefromTn_> so the output scale for the axis should be the same as the max and min limits?
[23:57:03] <PetefromTn_> is that what you mean by normalized?
[23:58:08] <PCW> with a velocity mode drive, what i mean by normalized is the the output of the PID is in units of velocity (so if its a inch machine it in IPS)
[23:58:18] <PCW> that the
[23:58:39] <PetefromTn_> mine are all set to 10 on the X and Y
[23:58:49] <PetefromTn_> min limit, max limit etc.
[23:59:08] <PCW> yea so you have them set to volts (the pncconf default)
[23:59:39] <PetefromTn_> Okay so that is not the speed limit then is this correct?