#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-09-30

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[00:12:47] <ssi> back
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[01:06:39] <CaptHindsight> ssi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8VH-kJ_HQk Boeing 787-9 watch the touch and go ~2:40
[01:08:54] <ssi> hot
[01:09:05] <ssi> I saw one of the early demos of the 78 at oshkosh `12
[01:09:59] <ssi> er, `11
[01:10:14] <ssi> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sumY3SrkrWY/TjoTsLeFPHI/AAAAAAAADCc/pRN71cMcF2o/w1685-h1119-no/DSC_6327
[01:10:19] <ssi> note it still had an experimental placard :)
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[01:10:40] <ssi> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dvqElUJcMn4/TjoT6-KIqII/AAAAAAAADDI/5LDlLn-tSM4/w1685-h1119-no/DSC_6457
[01:10:46] <ssi> it's amazing how much the wings flex on that big bastand
[01:11:18] <CaptHindsight> probably not as agile fully loaded :)
[01:12:05] <ssi> oh I'm sure it's not
[01:12:11] <CaptHindsight> could they launch it from a carrier?
[01:12:19] <ssi> it's amazing how airplanes perform when a couple of hundred thousand pounds under gross :)
[01:12:23] <ssi> ummm
[01:12:23] <ssi> probabl ynot
[01:12:30] <ssi> I think the wingspan alone would rule that out
[01:12:45] <ssi> speaking of big bastards
[01:12:49] <ssi> that was the year they brought the b29 in
[01:12:49] <ssi> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aMMuwKmlCj0/TjoToO37ClI/AAAAAAAADUE/dAVQHYhi8nI/w1685-h1119-no/DSC_6313
[01:13:17] <CaptHindsight> didn't they land one last year at the wrong airport last year in Kansas?
[01:13:33] <CaptHindsight> B17?
[01:13:38] <ssi> b17 perhaps
[01:13:42] <ssi> b29s are extremely rare nowadays
[01:13:55] <ssi> b17s are comparably plentiful
[01:14:04] <ssi> a friend of mine even crashed one into a field and watched it burn
[01:14:04] <ssi> lolol
[01:15:20] <CaptHindsight> I saw a B17 at Chicago Executive a few years ago
[01:19:33] <ssi> from the same `11 photo album:
[01:19:33] <ssi> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RmWcQyprO2E/TjoOd7iFxtI/AAAAAAAAC58/7s7ag6Ejyfg/w1399-h1119-no/DSC_5352
[01:19:46] <ssi> that's the red-tail b17 that EAA sells rides in
[01:19:48] <ssi> for like $900/seat
[01:19:48] <ssi> heh
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[01:23:58] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2AIZ80ALww B29 startup and flight
[01:24:37] <ssi> yeah that's the plane in the picture I linked
[01:25:39] <ssi> engines on it are R-3350s I believe
[01:25:50] <ssi> twin row, 18 cylinder radials
[01:25:53] <ssi> 2200hp apiece :D
[01:26:25] <CaptHindsight> did they have 2 sets of throttles? One up by the pilots and one back by the engineer?
[01:26:36] <ssi> probably
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[01:31:26] <Valen> I imagine the pilots might want to be able to control the engine power
[01:31:43] <Valen> they are generally kinda keen on that sort of thing
[01:31:49] <Valen> what with landing and all
[01:35:41] <Valen> you can see the pilot muckng with them at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2AIZ80ALww#t=620
[01:36:04] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight yes they did land at the wrong airport.
[01:36:11] <Tom_itx> it was way too small for the plane
[01:36:24] <Tom_itx> cracked the runway
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[01:36:52] <Valen> did they fly it back out or try and truck it out?
[01:37:03] <CaptHindsight> flew it back out
[01:37:09] <Tom_itx> they took off from there but they had to wait for another flight crew
[01:37:27] <Tom_itx> apparently they didn't trust the dumb shits that landed it there
[01:37:36] <Valen> I like how the B29 has an ipad in it ;->
[01:37:36] <ssi> don't blame them!
[01:38:07] <Tom_itx> it was one of those big boeing haulers
[01:38:49] <Valen> I wish i didn't get terribly motion sick these days :-<
[01:40:40] <Valen> I'd love to go on a flight like that
[01:40:48] <Valen> but puking everywhere really takes the edge off
[01:42:06] <ssi> haha aw
[01:42:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.azcaf.org/pages/rides.html
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[01:42:40] <Valen> think my inner ear got messed up by an infection, now i get seasick on big boats that are tied up in the harbor
[01:42:58] <ssi> my inner ear got messed up scuba diving years ago, and I can't dive anymore
[01:43:03] <ssi> but I'm still ok on boats and planes thank god
[01:43:04] <Valen> sucky
[01:43:27] <Valen> I'm glad I can still dive lol
[01:43:28] <Jymmm> Valen: tried rubberband on wrist?
[01:44:26] <Valen> it helps
[01:44:47] <Valen> I can fly on commercial aircraft with those but i still feel off
[01:44:57] <Valen> light aircraft are a no go
[01:44:58] <Jymmm> Valen: But still need the drugs?
[01:45:11] <Valen> haven't tried drugs yet
[01:45:11] <Jymmm> dramaine iirc?
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[01:45:28] <Jymmm> OTC stuff, not Rx.
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[01:45:40] <Valen> it'll probably put me to sleep
[01:46:32] <Jymmm> They have a 24hr less-srozy version
[01:46:38] <Jymmm> drozy*
[01:50:11] <Jymmm> one off label usage is for migranies, ironically.
[01:54:21] <zeeshan|2> hi
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[01:56:00] <ssi> hi
[01:56:21] <zeeshan|2> so exhausted
[01:56:31] <zeeshan|2> almost 9 hours of teaching milling
[01:56:42] <zeeshan|2> this one group
[01:56:45] <zeeshan|2> crashed the mill so hard
[01:56:51] <zeeshan|2> 3/4" end mill
[01:56:55] <zeeshan|2> not spinning, right into the vise
[01:56:58] <zeeshan|2> at 27ipm
[01:57:13] <ssi> oh so that's why you hate speed so much :P
[01:57:13] <zeeshan|2> in compression
[01:57:18] <zeeshan|2> yea
[01:57:24] <zeeshan|2> it gives noobs no time to react
[01:57:30] <zeeshan|2> ssi, i upped my ipm
[01:57:34] <zeeshan|2> to 200 for Z axis on the lathe
[01:57:38] <zeeshan|2> i got tired of 100 ipm during homing
[01:57:39] <zeeshan|2> rofl
[01:57:43] <ssi> EXACTL?Y
[01:57:43] <zeeshan|2> cause its at the end of the axis
[01:57:48] <zeeshan|2> but guess what
[01:57:52] <zeeshan|2> since its a 2:1 ratio on my X axis
[01:57:58] <CaptHindsight> thats a feature of Mach3 :)
[01:58:02] <zeeshan|2> i cant generate a pulse fast enough to spin faster than 120ipm.
[01:58:06] <zeeshan|2> owned
[01:58:28] <ssi> hahahah
[01:58:33] <Tom_itx> steppers?
[01:58:44] <ssi> I wish I had a log of you saying that mesa wasn't necessary for your lathe
[01:59:01] <Tom_itx> oh? he's not using mesa cards?
[01:59:02] <zeeshan|2> yea Tom_itx
[01:59:12] <zeeshan|2> ssi its becoming necessary
[01:59:14] <zeeshan|2> :P
[01:59:23] * Tom_itx starts a petetion to have zeeshan|2 banned
[01:59:24] <zeeshan|2> im happy at Z doing 200 ipm
[01:59:29] <zeeshan|2> and X doing 120
[01:59:32] <zeeshan|2> no need for x to be faster
[01:59:36] <zeeshan|2> z just t akes long
[02:00:02] <zeeshan|2> Tom_itx: ban me!
[02:00:09] <zeeshan|2> so i spend less time on irc
[02:00:16] <ssi> Tom_itx: at least he admits when he's wrong
[02:00:21] <ssi> weeks later maybe, but it eventually happens :)
[02:00:36] <zeeshan|2> ssi i know mesa is superior
[02:00:41] <zeeshan|2> but im happy with the setp right now
[02:00:46] <zeeshan|2> but it sucks to know i cant expand if i wanted to
[02:01:15] <Tom_itx> i'll sell you my 7i43 so i can get a 5i25 :D
[02:01:20] <zeeshan|2> hah
[02:01:32] <ssi> I have a SPARE 7i43 :P
[02:01:36] <Tom_itx> actually i'm pretty happy with it
[02:01:47] <ssi> and a pair of daughterboards for it that'll run a servo machine
[02:01:51] <ssi> 7i37 and 7i33
[02:01:56] <Tom_itx> no servos here
[02:02:06] <Tom_itx> 7i47 and a couple sserial boards
[02:02:14] <zeeshan|2> i thought i'd have enmerghy to turn some stuff
[02:02:19] <zeeshan|2> but im so done
[02:02:27] <zeeshan|2> i have like 8 different indenters to make
[02:02:35] <ssi> I'm having home ec night
[02:02:37] <Tom_itx> heck, it's not even friday yet...
[02:02:42] <Tom_itx> you can't be that tired out
[02:02:45] <zeeshan|2> .03125, 0.0625, 0.125 hemispheres
[02:02:50] <zeeshan|2> then many different conical tips
[02:03:24] <zeeshan|2> it should be as simple as running the programs
[02:03:34] <zeeshan|2> thanks to ssi forcing me to run home limit switches :D
[02:04:27] <Valen> doesn't mesa have a paralalel port style card for like $notmuch?
[02:04:37] <zeeshan|2> 5i25 u mean?
[02:04:42] <zeeshan|2> its 89$
[02:04:43] <zeeshan|2> its dirt cheap
[02:04:57] <Valen> could be
[02:05:05] <PetefromTn_> ssi http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONTROL-TECHNIQUES-AC-MOTOR-A2E170-3PH-IP54-CINCINNATI-ARROW-500-/151229292108?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2335f7de4c
[02:05:50] <Tom_itx> Valen, the 7i43 is parport
[02:06:00] <Valen> not the one that plugs into it
[02:06:02] <Tom_itx> there's another one that's cheaper / newer
[02:06:11] <Tom_itx> forget the number
[02:06:20] <Valen> the one that is PCI and has the centronix plug on it
[02:06:21] <Tom_itx> pcw_home?
[02:06:33] <Tom_itx> that's the 5i25
[02:06:40] <Valen> so if you are running parallel port you can just stick that card in and bobs yer grandmother
[02:07:44] <PetefromTn_> ? LOL
[02:07:54] <Tom_itx> must be an aussie thing
[02:08:07] <Valen> ;->
[02:11:16] <ssi> PetefromTn_: thanks
[02:11:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah man like I said it is not a typical setup
[02:12:02] <PetefromTn_> can I get in on the conversation?
[02:12:19] <ssi> yea #linuxcnc-devel
[02:12:42] <PetefromTn_> aah
[02:12:56] <Tom_itx> just pay the joiner fee
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[02:13:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: so it's a 7.5hp motor it looks like?
[02:13:47] <PetefromTn_> yup
[02:14:13] <PetefromTn_> 12k RPM
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[02:19:46] <Tom_itx> i think that card is the 7I90
[02:19:53] <Tom_itx> more io than the 7i43 and cheaper
[02:21:00] <Tom_itx> for a parport interface
[02:23:38] <zeeshan|2> ssi got mcam installed?
[02:23:45] <zeeshan|2> er
[02:23:48] <zeeshan|2> i mean windows 7
[02:23:49] <zeeshan|2> ;p
[02:23:56] <ssi> I got win7 installed, but nothing works worth a crap
[02:24:03] <zeeshan|2> cant f8 still?
[02:24:05] <Tom_itx> winders ate
[02:24:06] <ssi> correct
[02:24:11] <zeeshan|2> stop vming!
[02:24:18] <ssi> um, no.
[02:24:22] <zeeshan|2> install windows
[02:24:23] <zeeshan|2> DO IT!
[02:24:24] <zeeshan|2> FOREVER!
[02:24:39] <zeeshan|2> ssi made me laugh yesterday
[02:24:44] <zeeshan|2> "i havent ran windows since 3.1"
[02:24:45] <zeeshan|2> hahaha.
[02:24:53] <ssi> that was a little bit of an exaggeration
[02:24:54] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:24:59] <ssi> I played with 98 beta briefly
[02:25:01] <ssi> before it was out
[02:25:13] <Tom_itx> i finally tossed my 3.1 disks
[02:25:20] <Tom_itx> i think i did anyway
[02:25:41] <Tom_itx> still running nt4 and xp pro
[02:25:53] <Tom_itx> win7 on 3
[02:25:57] <Tom_itx> win 8 on 3
[02:26:13] <Tom_itx> linux on ... 3
[02:26:44] <Tom_itx> not counting the ssd with wheezy on it
[02:26:56] <zeeshan|2> ssi buy a computer
[02:26:58] <ssi> I run osx like a productive member of society
[02:27:01] <zeeshan|2> just for windoze
[02:27:06] <ssi> zeeshan|2: screw that
[02:27:15] <ssi> I want to work on the machine that's on my desk, with the huge hi res monitor
[02:27:15] <zeeshan|2> or do a dual boot system
[02:27:18] <zeeshan|2> rather than vm.
[02:27:19] <ssi> nope
[02:27:22] <zeeshan|2> why
[02:27:34] <Tom_itx> i bet most of my pcs are older than half of you
[02:27:34] <zeeshan|2> whats wrong with dual boot
[02:27:38] <ssi> becaues it's a pain in the ass, and it means i can't multitask
[02:27:45] <Tom_itx> dual boot sucks
[02:27:50] <Tom_itx> it will bite you in the ass
[02:27:57] <ssi> plus I don't have the disk space to do it
[02:28:30] <zeeshan|2> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1002789
[02:28:31] <zeeshan|2> ?
[02:28:50] <ssi> no, it's not the same issue
[02:29:01] <ssi> I'm not a moron who fails to understand how keyboards work
[02:29:09] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:29:21] <zeeshan|2> https://communities.vmware.com/thread/250697
[02:29:21] <zeeshan|2> moar
[02:30:34] <ssi> I mean
[02:30:36] <ssi> I can try more
[02:30:41] <ssi> I just haven't had much luck
[02:31:23] <ssi> and having to wait for it to fully boot, then wait for it to fully shut down to try again is a huge PITA
[02:31:31] <ssi> really, everything about windows is a huge PITA
[02:31:41] <Tom_itx> oh heck just unplug it.. it's alot quicker
[02:32:03] <ssi> then when you start, it gives you the safe mode menu
[02:32:09] <ssi> which is sort of like what I'm trying to get to
[02:32:14] <ssi> but it doesn't give you the option to disable driver signing
[02:32:17] <Tom_itx> well there ya go...
[02:32:23] <ssi> no, there I don't go
[02:32:26] <ssi> I have to start over at that point
[02:32:32] <ssi> and wait for it to boot and shut down all the way, like I said
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[02:33:11] <PetefromTn_> I have considered doing a dual boot linux and windows on my laptop not sure if it is worth it or not.
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[02:34:08] <Tom_itx> it's not worth it
[02:34:28] <PetefromTn_> why
[02:34:38] <Tom_itx> the dual boot will get screwed up
[02:34:42] <roycroft> i hate dual booting
[02:34:44] <roycroft> i've tried it
[02:34:46] <roycroft> it really sucks
[02:34:49] <Tom_itx> then you need to remember the utility to fix it
[02:35:02] <roycroft> it's way better to run vms under your main os
[02:35:16] <humble_sea_bass> i do dual boot on my macbook air
[02:35:29] <humble_sea_bass> and i want to punch myself most of the time
[02:35:30] <LeelooMinai> It's kind of silly ides - in practice it takes to much time to reboot and switch and it destroys whatever you were doing in the other OS desktop.
[02:35:38] <roycroft> the lastest vmware fusion is wicked fast
[02:35:48] <roycroft> especially since my current mbp has a ssd
[02:35:50] <roycroft> and 16GB of ram
[02:35:59] <Tom_itx> drives are cheap enough you can just swap em out
[02:36:00] <humble_sea_bass> vmware makes me want to punch myself in the face even more, but my wife likes it
[02:36:19] <humble_sea_bass> so long as you don't need 3d accelerated anything, vmware is great
[02:36:23] <roycroft> i have no problems with it at all
[02:36:38] <roycroft> solidworks does rendering incredibly fast on my mbp
[02:36:40] <Tom_itx> now all i use for backups is a hdd
[02:36:42] <humble_sea_bass> whatever, still punch self in face
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[02:36:48] <Tom_itx> used to have all sorts of tape backups etc
[02:36:49] <roycroft> i give it 8GB of ram and 4 cores to work with
[02:37:05] <roycroft> and installing vmware tools gives it access to the 3d features of the gpu
[02:37:12] <PetefromTn_> mbp?
[02:37:18] <roycroft> macbookpro
[02:37:22] <PetefromTn_> aah
[02:37:30] <humble_sea_bass> i have a macbook AIR
[02:37:36] <humble_sea_bass> so it basically catches fire
[02:37:42] <humble_sea_bass> when you run SW
[02:37:58] <roycroft> yeah, but it would do that if you ran windows on it natively
[02:38:05] <roycroft> don't blame vmware
[02:38:10] <roycroft> blame your underpowered computer :P
[02:38:16] <humble_sea_bass> like i got high this one time and felt an urge to play counterstrike in a hotel room while on the road
[02:38:19] <roycroft> but it's wicked thin
[02:38:22] <humble_sea_bass> it burned the place down
[02:38:47] <humble_sea_bass> 50 souls to heaven, just because of vmware and the the mack book air
[02:39:21] <zeeshan|2> CS 1.6
[02:39:22] <zeeshan|2> Yea!!
[02:39:38] <humble_sea_bass> somke weed every AWP
[02:39:44] <zeeshan|2> haha
[02:39:44] <zeeshan|2> awp
[02:39:46] <zeeshan|2> best gun ever
[02:39:48] <zeeshan|2> so much recoil
[02:39:56] <zeeshan|2> but damn the 1 shot kills
[02:40:04] <zeeshan|2> remember the sprayers?
[02:40:09] <zeeshan|2> with the mini uzis
[02:40:18] <zeeshan|2> or ak sprayers
[02:40:39] <humble_sea_bass> when i'm feeling frisky i jump back into CS:GO
[02:41:09] <humble_sea_bass> I'm really taken aback by how fucking good everyone has gotten
[02:41:19] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:41:59] <ssi> roycroft: I may have to try fusion
[02:42:11] <humble_sea_bass> http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=200670434
[02:42:18] <ssi> roycroft: I've been using parallels, and last night I was forced up to the latest 9 version, and it fubard everything I think
[02:42:21] <roycroft> i tried parallels and fusion when each came out
[02:42:58] <ssi> I'll try fusion tonight when I finish my upholstery fun
[02:43:26] <roycroft> i ditched parallels almost right away
[02:44:23] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/ottawa/new-old-stock-6-starrett-machinist-bench-vise/1022382777?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[02:44:24] <zeeshan|2> interesting
[02:44:26] <zeeshan|2> starrett made vises
[02:44:58] <roycroft> nice
[02:45:04] <roycroft> but that's definitely a collector price
[02:45:07] <roycroft> not a user price
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[02:46:28] <zeeshan|2> yea
[02:46:36] <Connor> Question: Those of you who modify your saddles and add oil groves and such.. what do you do with the gib strip? Do you have to drill holes through it ?
[02:46:58] <PetefromTn_> no
[02:48:09] <PetefromTn_> the grooves are usually on the flat horizontal parts of the dovetails as I recall
[02:48:43] <SpeedEvil> zeeshan|2: for that price, you could almost use enough of the little vices they're more known for
[02:49:51] <Connor> PetefromTn_: http://www.g0704.com/Projects.html#oiling
[02:49:58] <Connor> Just found that..
[02:50:50] <zeeshan|2> SpeedEvil: haha yea
[02:51:00] <zeeshan|2> id get a wilton for that price
[02:51:03] <zeeshan|2> two of em
[02:51:04] <zeeshan|2> :D
[02:51:05] <zeeshan|2> or three
[02:51:19] <PetefromTn_> hm
[02:51:32] <PetefromTn_> I did not go thru the gib strip on mine.
[02:52:01] <PetefromTn_> you can certainly do it that way I guess. Might cause the strip to crack easier tho possibly
[02:52:36] <Connor> I'll do some more digging.
[02:52:44] <Connor> to see what else other people have done.
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[02:54:08] <Connor> Would really have to make sure the holes were deburred VERY well..
[02:54:13] <PetefromTn_> its been so long since I did my RF45 I cannot even remember how I did it anymore LOL
[02:54:37] <PetefromTn_> you can just carefully stone them around the holes that is what I did.
[02:55:23] <PetefromTn_> http://www.g0704.com/images/030811%20091_800x600.jpg It's kinda funny how HUGE those fittings look installed on that table..
[02:55:34] <Connor> Yea.
[02:55:54] <Connor> What sucks is.. that found fitting will be in the way of my limit switch.. I'll have to move it.
[03:00:25] <PetefromTn_> did you already drill and mount the fittings?
[03:00:42] <Connor> Hell No.
[03:00:53] <Tom_itx> it would be nice if you could fine some tiny brass capilary tubing
[03:01:19] <Connor> I'm a bit of a chicken on that.. if I mess it up.. I'm f*cked. :)
[03:01:34] <PetefromTn_> the fittings I used under the table on my RF45 were small brass 90 degree ones with compression fitting hardware
[03:01:55] <PetefromTn_> the rest were the plastic push connect type.
[03:02:35] <PetefromTn_> I had to use the brass ones because the height was an issue when the table moved all the way to either end as the table ends were deeper.
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[03:03:12] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-S-Engineering-15-Ea-Brass-Tubing-1-16-X-014-/161417062569?pt=Model_Kit_US&hash=item259534e8a9
[03:03:28] <Tom_itx> not sure about fittings
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[03:06:08] <Tom_itx> you'd really want annealed tubing
[03:06:09] <PetefromTn_> http://www.mcmaster.com/#51875k81/=txwik0 mine were similar to this I cannot remember the size
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[03:16:37] <Connor_iPad> .
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[03:20:30] <PetefromTn_> ,,
[03:22:13] <Connor_iPad> Typo.
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[03:37:55] <ssi> Connor_iPad: you're gonna do auto-oiling?
[03:41:38] <Connor_iPad> One shot at least.
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[03:46:11] <Connor_iPad> Why oil and not grease for the ball screws ?
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[03:49:26] <SpeedEvil> If you grease, you can't fit an oil cooler
[03:50:17] <Connor_iPad> You can the ways and dovetails.
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[04:08:29] <anarchos2> hmm, if i set an input to reversed in my ini, halshow should show that, right?
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[04:34:51] <ssi> https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/1965665_10100489081559142_7923059175029995843_o.jpg
[04:34:55] <ssi> looking good!
[04:35:12] <ssi> there's some oopsies in the topstitching, but these are the rear seats... basically the "practice" seats
[04:46:00] <ssi> roycroft: so far I'm not impressed :)
[04:49:30] <roycroft> what's not impressive?
[04:50:05] <ssi> vmware fusion
[04:50:11] <roycroft> yes, but what about it?
[04:50:36] <ssi> trying to install win7 in a vm, and it's so slow that the mouse pointer lags 30 seconds behind, which makes it nigh impossible to use
[04:51:17] <ssi> the little spinny balls turns into the windows logo animation when the installer starts
[04:51:22] <ssi> takes about five minutes to complete the animation
[04:51:51] <roycroft> perhaps you don't have enough resources allocated for the vm
[04:52:07] <ssi> 4 cores, 4G ram
[04:52:07] <roycroft> i give a vm 4 cores and 8GB for win7/solidworks
[04:52:09] <ssi> how much does it need?
[04:52:10] <roycroft> hmm
[04:52:13] <ssi> heh
[04:52:18] <roycroft> did you install vmware tools?
[04:52:25] <roycroft> that really speeds things up
[04:52:26] <ssi> I can't install vmware tools before I install windows!
[04:52:31] <roycroft> right
[04:52:39] <ssi> it's literally still running the startup animation
[04:52:41] <ssi> before the installer
[04:52:47] <roycroft> i just did a win8.1 install tonight to test some stuff
[04:52:55] <roycroft> it took about 15 minutes for the complete install
[04:52:57] <ssi> does win8.1 run sw worth a crap?
[04:53:08] <roycroft> which involved more reboots than i imagined possible
[04:53:09] <roycroft> i have no idea
[04:53:18] <roycroft> i'm trying to sell this stupid plotter
[04:53:30] <roycroft> and everyone who looks at it runs autocad 2014/win8.1
[04:53:34] <roycroft> so i installed win8.1
[04:53:35] <ssi> something must be horribly wrong
[04:53:47] <roycroft> and i'm going to install autocad 2014
[04:53:51] <roycroft> and make the plotter work
[04:53:54] <ssi> it's still on the "starting windows" animation
[04:54:03] <roycroft> something indeed is terribly wrong
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[04:54:18] <ssi> vmware-vmx is consuming 180% cpu
[04:54:45] <ssi> ok lemme shut everything down and reboot
[04:54:54] <ssi> I guess when you use windows in a product that's written by windows people
[04:54:58] <ssi> you have to run your computer like a windows person
[04:55:00] <ssi> :(
[04:55:33] <roycroft> it's consuming 10% of cpu on my mbp at the moment
[04:55:45] <ssi> this is not a small machine
[04:55:57] <ssi> i7 quad-ht, 16g ram, ssd
[04:55:58] <roycroft> you've given it enough cores and ram to do the job well
[04:56:20] <ssi> and it's making the whole machine unusable
[04:56:25] <roycroft> and you're using a recent version of fusion?
[04:56:30] <ssi> just downloaded it
[04:56:30] <roycroft> like 6.x at least
[04:56:32] <ssi> 7 trial
[04:56:34] <roycroft> and hopefully 7
[04:56:48] <roycroft> 7 is incredibly lean and fast on my mbp
[04:56:53] <roycroft> it's way faster than 6
[04:56:55] <ssi> what osx are you on
[04:56:59] <roycroft> mavericks
[04:57:05] <ssi> yea but which one
[04:57:08] <ssi> I'm on 10.9.5
[04:57:08] <roycroft> 10.9.2
[04:57:11] <ssi> and just updated last night
[04:57:12] <roycroft> i need to upgrade
[04:57:17] <ssi> and after that, parallels forced me to update
[04:57:21] <ssi> when I updated, it went to shit
[04:57:21] <roycroft> weird
[04:57:36] <roycroft> mayhap i should hold off on updating for a bit
[04:57:40] <ssi> yeah maybe
[04:57:43] <anarchos2> well thats enough for tonight....kinda got the tool probe working :)
[04:57:43] <ssi> ok brb rebootin
[04:58:14] <anarchos2> it freaks out and throws errors when it's activated, but at least the computers reading it/gmoccapy is attempting to use it
[05:03:31] <ssi> back
[05:08:25] <ssi> roycroft: seems to be working better now
[05:11:43] <roycroft> good
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[05:31:25] <ssi> ugh
[05:31:33] <ssi> it requires me to have an absurd amount of free disk space
[05:31:38] -!- ve7it has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[05:32:13] <ssi> keeps pausing the vm and asking me to free space
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[05:32:40] <ssi> I'm fighting a losing battle here :(
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[05:35:41] <roycroft> i had that problem with windows 8
[05:35:44] <roycroft> it's not a vmware thing, i think
[05:35:47] <roycroft> it's a windows thing
[05:35:57] <roycroft> i had to create a 60GB vm for windows to install
[05:36:14] <roycroft> post installation it had consumed a bit over 8GB of disk
[05:36:36] <roycroft> windows 7 doesn't do that
[05:37:20] <ssi> I created a 32G vm, and it's like 16G on disk right now
[05:37:31] <ssi> but my free space while it's running is fluctuating up and down wildly
[05:37:34] <ssi> like 16-20g
[05:37:38] <ssi> and I don't have much space
[05:37:41] <ssi> I'm on a 250G ssd
[05:37:55] <roycroft> i'm fortunate to have a 1TB ssd
[05:38:04] <ssi> I'm thinking about buying oe
[05:38:06] <roycroft> and i've only had this computer since this summer
[05:38:06] <ssi> they're down to $400
[05:38:12] <roycroft> so i haven't had time to fill it up completely yet
[05:38:54] <roycroft> the autocad installation is almost done
[05:39:08] <ssi> argh now I have to go through the whole windows update BS
[05:39:12] <ssi> solidworks won't install on SP0
[05:39:17] <roycroft> that plotter is in my shop
[05:39:21] <ssi> I'm probably actually better off just downloading an SP1 iso
[05:39:24] <roycroft> and i'm not going out there this late at night to test it
[05:39:27] <roycroft> i'll do that tomorrow
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[06:09:52] <ssi> rgh
[06:10:10] <roycroft> dammit
[06:10:18] <roycroft> these people really are morons
[06:10:34] <roycroft> i can go into autocad 2014, set up plotter, and that plotter is listed under hp
[06:10:44] <roycroft> it's just clickity click click click and it's done
[06:12:18] <Jymmm> the sound of a tommy gun?
[06:12:31] <ssi> solidworks installer is being stupid
[06:12:32] <roycroft> i thought i was going to actually have to do something interesting to make it work
[06:12:47] <roycroft> which is why i went to the trouble of installing win8.1 and acad2014 in a vm
[06:13:20] <ssi> my favorite part about windows software is when it refuses to do anything, so you close it, and then it goes into a "closing" state for an equal eternity
[06:14:01] <roycroft> i know next to nothing about windows, except how much i hate it
[06:14:12] <ssi> same here
[06:14:18] <roycroft> so if i can install and configure this stuff wit no trouble it must not be that difficult to do
[06:14:35] <ssi> you're luckier than me apparently
[06:14:52] <roycroft> now i'm going to try to install a windows print driver for the plotter
[06:15:27] <roycroft> although if these people are using autocad2014, i don't see why they need a windows driver if acad can talk to the plotter directly
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[06:17:54] <Connor> gotta love windows.. NOT
[06:18:02] <ssi> it actively makes me angry
[06:18:49] <Connor> I run ubuntu with vmware and Virtual Box both for different windows crap.
[06:20:17] <ssi> there it goes pausing again for disk space
[06:20:22] <ssi> I have 8G free, and it's pausing
[06:21:48] <roycroft> yeah, that requires going out to the shop and stringing a cable
[06:21:50] <roycroft> a task for tomorrow
[06:22:03] <roycroft> all i'm trying to do is sell this bloody plotter
[06:22:12] <Connor> Umm. If it's a vm drive.. it may need to allocate more space.. as it continues..
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[06:22:15] <roycroft> i never thought it would be that much work
[06:22:26] <ssi> yeah but it doesn't
[06:22:30] <ssi> it just wants me to have a ton of free space
[06:22:41] <roycroft> vmware fusion by default likes to allocate the virtual disk in 2GB chunks
[06:22:49] <roycroft> you fill one up, it creates another one
[06:23:19] <ssi> I wonder if windows is doing something stupid like writing to a virtual mem file
[06:23:22] <Connor> ssi: You figure out the transport of your VMC ?
[06:23:29] <ssi> which is causing fusion to try to thrash my thin disk
[06:23:35] <ssi> Connor: yeah more or less
[06:23:44] <ssi> step 1: give dude in KY all my dollars
[06:23:48] <Connor> Do tell
[06:23:48] <ssi> step 2: hope everything goes smoothly
[06:24:06] <Connor> rofl
[06:24:18] <ssi> step 3: if he actually tells me when it's due to arrive, I will schedule a 12klb lift with 8' forks to be delivered
[06:24:32] <ssi> step 4: put on my osha-compliant steel-toed flip-flops and unload the bastard
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[06:24:54] <Connor> How much is it gonna cost you ?
[06:25:05] <ssi> $850 for freight, $350 for the lift, and $250 for lift delivery
[06:25:18] <ssi> so ~$1500
[06:25:24] <Connor> and why was pete linking a Cincinnati 500 motor?
[06:25:34] <ssi> we were talking to KimK about spindle orient
[06:25:46] <ssi> and discussing what type of motor and drive it was
[06:25:56] <Connor> the ebay link ?
[06:26:03] <ssi> ebay link is same as pete's motor
[06:26:11] <ssi> had pictures of the dataplate
[06:26:19] <Connor> ah. okay. KimK have anything to say about it ?
[06:26:38] <ssi> yeah, with sensorless vector drive we can probably do ok, but not to expect it to work great
[06:26:43] <ssi> said it'd be better to have a true vector drive
[06:26:46] <ssi> ie servo
[06:27:07] <Connor> so, how the heck did it work before ?
[06:27:20] <ssi> did the old spindle drive have feedback directly from the resolver?
[06:27:42] <Connor> I have no idea of the drive did or just the controller..
[06:27:53] <ssi> well if so, that's how
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[06:28:25] <roycroft> i just plugged the thing in anyway
[06:28:32] <roycroft> i decided i want this done tonight
[06:28:35] <ssi> hahaha
[06:28:38] <ssi> DO IT
[06:28:39] <Connor> So, what does that mean in the end... it may not work?
[06:29:05] <Connor> His drive CAN take in encoder info.. but only A and B.. Not index... so, I'm not sure what good that'll do
[06:29:30] <ssi> I dunno
[06:29:32] <ssi> it's worth a shot
[06:29:47] <ssi> ugh wtf solidworks
[06:29:52] <ssi> why have you forsaken me
[06:30:19] <Connor> I DO know we need to get his spindle under closed loop control..
[06:30:38] <Connor> so that the orient.9 can use it with PID
[06:30:46] <ssi> yes
[06:30:51] <ssi> start there, definitely
[06:31:08] <ssi> if you can easily get the encoder to the drive, do that as well
[06:31:27] <Connor> that'll require a extra part from mesanet
[06:31:32] <ssi> what part?
[06:31:39] <Connor> let me find it..brb
[06:33:10] <Connor> ENCY  Encoder Y adapter
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[06:34:06] <Connor>  The ENCY is a quadrature encoder signal spiltter that allows tapping onto encoder signals without compromising signal integrity.
[06:34:06] <Connor>  The ENCY can also be used as a re-driver. The ENCY has a single encoder input connector which will accept TTL or differential inputs, and two sets of differential encoder outputs. Status LEDs are provided for power, index and quadrature state. The quadrature state LEDs also provide a simple visual way to test quadrature connections.
[06:34:10] <ssi> yea got it
[06:34:12] <ssi> how much is it
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[06:34:44] <Connor> $15.00
[06:34:47] <ssi> that's not bad
[06:36:18] <Connor> YEA. Not too bad.
[06:36:54] <Connor> other option might be some sort of simple hardware based stop.
[06:37:16] <ssi> neither of us is particularly happy with that
[06:37:23] <ssi> the damn machine did it electronically before
[06:37:27] <ssi> it should be able to do it again
[06:37:30] <Connor> my biggest concern is, it won't stop in the exactly same spot every time.
[06:37:36] <Connor> I agree.
[06:37:44] <ssi> well here's the thing
[06:37:51] <ssi> we have an encoder, so we know exactly where it is
[06:37:54] <ssi> it may not stop there every time
[06:37:59] <ssi> but worst case, we can try again
[06:38:08] <Connor> right.
[06:38:32] <Connor> and I hope running the drive via modbus doesn't cause too much issue either..
[06:39:20] <ssi> how in the burning fuck you do disconnect from the network in win7
[06:39:42] <ssi> the UX in win7 is bloody awful
[06:40:02] <Connor> Disable the adapter ?
[06:40:17] <archivist> win7 is trivial, wait till you get lost in 8
[06:40:26] <Connor> win 8 blows.
[06:40:31] <ssi> I refuse
[06:40:34] <Connor> okay. time for bed
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[06:43:52] <ssi> I don't know if vmware is gonna let me do this
[06:44:03] <ssi> sw wants to install 6G worth of crap on the vm disk, and I have 10G free on the real disk
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[06:47:37] <ssi> yep, there it goes
[06:47:42] <ssi> goddammit that's a very inconvenient feature
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[11:15:57] <Balu_> Wow. I didn't expect the channel to be this crowded :)
[11:16:10] Balu_ is now known as ulaB
[11:19:01] <ulaB> I read everywhere that LinuxCNC is based on Ubuntu, but the 2.6 I downloaded is a Debian based version. Did I get the wrong one or was the base changed?
[11:22:51] <skunkworks> the latest livecd is based on debian wheezy
[11:24:55] <ulaB> skunkworks: guessed so, thanks. I was just confused because it mentions Ubuntu everywhere and mine was different :)
[11:25:23] <skunkworks> the last 2 livecds where based on ubuntu - yes
[11:25:30] <skunkworks> (atleast)
[11:26:23] <skunkworks> I think there are packages for precise.. (if you want to go that route) but you would have to install ubuntu and then install ubuntu
[11:26:31] <skunkworks> *linuxcnc
[11:26:43] <skunkworks> (still working on my first cup_
[11:27:21] <ulaB> I'm just starting to look around, but do you have a hint on where to look for the timing setup I should use for my Longs Motors DM542A drivers?
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[11:29:26] <skunkworks> ulaB, http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid/index.php/english/forum/16-stepconf-wizard/27036-longs-motor-nema-23-34-42-step-timespacedir
[11:30:31] <ulaB> skunkworks: Ah, thanks.
[11:30:42] <skunkworks> Google foo...
[11:33:59] <ulaB> I tried searching the forums directly, but didn't find that information...
[11:35:29] <skunkworks> what are you building?
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[11:38:01] <jthornton> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
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[11:44:21] <jdh> do you have the manual or data sheet that came with the drivers?
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[11:50:29] <ulaB> jthornton: It doesn't list the DM542A there. But the DQ542MA from Wantai look exactly the same. Probably just a rebrand like the forum page said.
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[11:50:57] <ulaB> At the moment I'm just playing around with the electronics.
[11:52:00] <ulaB> jdh: Nope. The manufacturer page had some information, but no timing: http://www.longs-motor.com/productinfo/detail_12_80_131.aspx
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[11:52:46] <ulaB> skunkworks_: I'm thinking about building a standard CNC router setup with a drag knife to cut foamboard
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[11:53:03] <skunkworks_> neat
[11:54:52] <ulaB> So before starting with that I decided to play around with the electronics first and stumbled over a 4 axis Nema23 kit on ebay. The 425 oz.in dual-shaft stepper motors are probably a little overkill though =)
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[12:20:01] <archivist> overkill helps when you fing you need more force
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[12:26:40] <skunkworks_> I think 425's are a nice size.. not too big and not too small :)
[12:27:23] <ulaB> I don't have the experience yet but they just felt way heavier and were a lot bigger than I expected :)
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[12:37:00] <ulaB> Just putting the old pc I've found with LPT port through the latency test. glxgears, Iceweasel running CanvasMark2013 and "find / -type f md5sum {} \;"
[12:37:39] <archivist> production gears :) http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_30_Ford_speedo_gears/IMG_1841.JPG
[12:39:50] <ulaB> archivist: molded?
[12:40:20] <archivist> the broken one was, the replacement are cut
[12:40:54] <archivist> hmm should I gimp out the dust http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_30_Ford_speedo_gears/IMG_1839.JPG
[12:41:17] <archivist> the arbor shaft is 2mm
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[12:45:26] <ulaB> Hm. max. Jitter 205196... Looks like I need to tune this old PC.
[12:46:22] <malcom2073> Hah wow, that's impressive
[12:48:04] <archivist> tune/throw away, certainly look at the video card
[12:48:53] <ulaB> It's a DualCore P4, 3.2 GHz with 1G RAM that was standing around in the basement =)
[12:49:53] <ulaB> Most modern ones don't have LPT anymore :-/
[12:50:05] <archivist> if it have nvidia then changes it and try again
[12:50:12] <archivist> have/has
[12:51:38] <archivist> embedded video can be a time hog, better with an adapter card
[12:52:25] <ulaB> according to lspci it's an AMD ATI RV530 (Radeon X1600)
[12:53:30] <ulaB> Does LinuxCNC support other interfaces like ethernet? USB won't work either as far as I read?
[12:53:49] <archivist> ethernet is just being tested
[12:54:17] <archivist> usb has long dead periods (device discovery)
[12:54:38] <ulaB> ok, so for now the better idea would be to get an LPT card and plug it into a modern PC?
[12:54:46] <malcom2073> ulaB: mesa!
[12:54:46] <archivist> best option is a pci fpga card
[12:55:21] <malcom2073> yeah, a fpga card lets you use a modern pc so you don't run into graphic/system lagging issues, while still giving you a fast step clock
[12:55:52] <archivist> his current box is fast enough
[12:56:28] <ulaB> malcom2073: mesa?
[12:56:42] <archivist> check if it has any power management enabled
[13:02:48] <ulaB> ACPI Aware O/S was on, disabled. Hyperthreading is bad for RT too, right?
[13:04:51] <ulaB> Also disabled "Enhanced C1 Control" (C1E)
[13:05:33] <malcom2073> ulaB: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards but really archivist is right, I'm sure your PC can do what you need without that heh
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[13:09:48] <skunkworks_> archivist: that doesn
[13:09:58] <skunkworks_> archivist: that doesn't look like hobbing...
[13:10:20] <archivist> they sure are hobbed :)
[13:10:46] <archivist> how the blank is cut http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_23_Barber_Colman_speedo_gears/IMG_1832.JPG
[13:10:48] <ulaB> hm. still 200us :-/
[13:11:35] <skunkworks_> archivist: awesome! did you get the bugs worked out?
[13:12:09] <skunkworks_> heh - looks like the blank is mounted on a spade drill
[13:12:34] <archivist> the blanks in order of cutting http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2014/2014_09_28_Ford_speedo_gears/IMG_1836.JPG
[13:13:05] <archivist> I decided the error was small enough for the first couple
[13:14:02] <cradek> am I imagining it, or does the last one still have a twist to it?
[13:14:10] <skunkworks_> so the slight twist is getting less and less?
[13:14:15] <archivist> yes still has some twist
[13:15:02] <archivist> that being the error, spent some time adjusting and measuring to get it a bit tighter
[13:15:46] <archivist> first really bad ones are vfd noise
[13:16:45] <FinboySlick> archivist: I was under the impression that you were using steppers on this.
[13:16:52] <archivist> I am
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[13:17:36] <FinboySlick> OK, but not on the tool spindle.
[13:17:44] <archivist> vfd drives the main 3 phase spindle motor, then an encoder reads that position
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[13:19:43] <ulaB> With glxgears and a HTML5 Canvas demo I get a max jitter of ~35us. It's the file system stuff that makes it go up
[13:20:50] <ulaB> just the "find / -type f" results in 200us Jitter
[13:21:21] <archivist> ew nasty
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[13:36:07] <PetefromTn_> Morning folks
[13:37:27] <ulaB> Morning? It's 15:37 here =)
[13:37:40] <skunkworks_> miller time!
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[13:40:52] <FinboySlick> ulaB: Does your board only support sata? I had a buggy sata controller on mine, switched to ide and moved everything under 10us.
[13:40:55] <archivist> coffee and contemplation time
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[13:43:21] <PetefromTn_> well it's morning here at least for now heh
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[13:52:28] <ulaB> FinboySlick: hehe I was just out, looking for an IDE HDD :)
[13:52:53] <ulaB> BTW: mainboard is an Asus P5LD2/S
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[13:59:26] <FinboySlick> ulaB: Well, it's not the same crappy sata chipset as what I had, but mine was also an asus.
[13:59:51] <SpeedEvil> Change the s to an n, what do you have? Asun!
[14:00:56] <pcw_home> Many brand new MBs have built in LPT
[14:00:58] <pcw_home> (usually on a header rather then the back panel)
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[14:01:56] <FinboySlick> SpeedEvil: Being a native french speaker, I don't even need to change a letter. Asus is pronounced pretty much the same as "À suce", which translates to: "She sucks."
[14:02:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:02:50] <SpeedEvil> pcw_home: including some 'all in one' fanless cheap motherboards, hich seem quite a good match
[14:02:59] <ulaB> Which doesn't have to be a bad thing... :o)
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[14:27:01] <pcw_home> SpeedEvil: yes Ive been testing the Biostar A68N-5000, its cheap and it works well with no tweaks with the wheezy ISO
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[14:32:06] <JT-Shop> does the 5i25 work with a PCI Express 2.0 x 16 slot?
[14:32:59] <ulaB> With IDE I still get 140 us Jitter. Will have to play around with the hardware and bios a little more...
[14:33:27] <ssi> JT-Shop: no, but the 6i25 should
[14:34:12] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/1965665_10100489081559142_7923059175029995843_o.jpg
[14:34:45] <skunkworks_> JT-Shop, no.. but I think there is a pciE version of the 5i25
[14:35:43] <pcw_home> 6I25 is PCIE version of 5I25
[14:35:44] <pcw_home> Usually x16 slots work but sometimes Bioses dont support 1 lane cards in 16 lane slots
[14:35:46] <pcw_home> (even though the PCIE spec says the must)
[14:36:13] <pcw_home> (mainly older MBs have this issue)
[14:36:54] <zeeshan|2> one good question i got asked which i dont know if i answered right was: if you can buy 4 flute end mills center cutting, why would you ever buy non-center cutting 4 flute end mills?
[14:37:01] <zeeshan|2> i said they're harder to re-grind?
[14:37:04] <zeeshan|2> :P
[14:37:06] <PetefromTn_> ssi looking good man
[14:37:07] <JT-Shop> so the Biostar A68N-5000 works with the 6i25?
[14:37:08] <zeeshan|2> any clues?
[14:37:09] <ssi> PetefromTn_: :)
[14:37:34] <PetefromTn_> maybe you can make me a custom soft top for my bronco when I pop the hard roof off LOL
[14:37:57] <pcw_home> It might... Ill try later today since I happen to have both
[14:38:12] <JT-Shop> thanks
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[14:40:45] <PetefromTn_> http://www.supermotors.org/getfile.php?id=124314&toggle=fullsize&f=softfirstwindowless.jpg ;)
[14:41:26] <ulaB> got to go, thanks for your suggestions, guys.
[14:41:34] <PetefromTn_> http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/283593/fullsize/8-lug-poser.jpg%20alt= :p
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[14:42:33] <zeeshan|2> ssi
[14:42:38] <zeeshan|2> i got x axis working at 200 ipm
[14:42:47] <zeeshan|2> i had the acceleration up too high
[14:42:49] <zeeshan|2> thats why it was stalling
[14:43:20] <zeeshan|2> i wonder if there is a way to setup acceleration without trial and error :P
[14:46:47] <skunkworks_> bump up acceleration untill it starts stalling - back off 20%
[14:47:06] <zeeshan|2> im trying to figure out what acceleration changes
[14:47:24] <zeeshan|2> http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt482/slyt482.pdf
[14:47:26] <zeeshan|2> reading that tech paper
[14:47:31] <zeeshan|2> looks promising :)
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[14:51:58] <zeeshan|2> when linuxcnc sends out one pulse to the stepper driver, and the stepper driver is set to 1/4 microstep
[14:52:07] <zeeshan|2> and using 1.8 deg full step motors
[14:52:18] <zeeshan|2> that 1 pulse would yield a 1.8/4 step?
[14:52:32] <zeeshan|2> 0.45 deg
[14:52:50] <pcw_home> yep so 800 steps/turn
[14:53:14] <pcw_home> 8KHz at 600 RPM
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[14:54:26] <zeeshan|2> why do you have to tell stepconf the number of microsteps?
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[14:54:59] <pcw_home> because stepconf helps with the calculations
[14:55:18] <zeeshan|2> i'm confusing myself haha
[14:55:19] <JT-Shop> you don't, you can put any numbers that add up to steps per user unit
[14:55:41] <JT-Shop> anyone have a grinder similar to this? http://www.trick-tools.com/Multitool_2_x_36_inch_1_hp_Belt_Grinder_Bundle_MT362_100_Bundle_4311#.VCrD1tewehc
[14:56:44] <zeeshan|2> does this make sense: im moving 1" of travel and i have full step configured in stepconf, then linuxcnc will send 400 pulses to the stepper driver
[14:57:15] <zeeshan|2> but if i am moving 1" of travel and now have 1/4 step configured in stepconf, then linuxcnc will send 800 pulses to the stepper driver
[14:57:41] <zeeshan|2> meaning the wave form will be tighter for the 1/4 step case?
[14:57:48] <pcw_home> yes (but 200 and 800)
[14:58:13] <zeeshan|2> why i am askling all this is
[14:58:23] <zeeshan|2> i want to know the maximum steps that can be generated
[14:58:30] <zeeshan|2> w/ a par port for my situation
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[14:59:44] <pcw_home> depends on you latency
[15:00:10] <zeeshan|2> im around 4500 ns for servothread
[15:00:16] <zeeshan|2> and like 7000ns for base
[15:00:47] <pcw_home> what base thread rate are you currently using?
[15:01:32] <zeeshan|2> i dont know :P
[15:01:51] <zeeshan|2> ill check
[15:02:06] <pcw_home> its in your .ini file
[15:07:35] <zeeshan|2> whoops didnt see your message
[15:08:02] <zeeshan|2> i did find this out: step time , space = 3000 , direction hold, step = 7000 , baseperiod jit 11000
[15:08:15] <zeeshan|2> gives me a max frequency of 45454Hz
[15:09:27] <zeeshan|2> so this means the smallest period of the wave can be 1/45454 = 0.000022s = 22ms
[15:09:42] <pcw_home> 22 us
[15:10:07] <zeeshan|2> i dont know why i wrote ms
[15:10:13] <pcw_home> if you use the reset option
[15:10:34] <pcw_home> 44 usec otherwise
[15:10:48] <zeeshan|2> what's the reset option
[15:10:54] <pcw_home> man stepgen
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[15:12:23] <zeeshan|2> so using 44 us
[15:12:39] <zeeshan|2> how do i determine ipm? :P
[15:13:27] <zeeshan|2> nm
[15:13:31] <zeeshan|2> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Stepper_Motor_Speed_Limitations
[15:14:03] <pcw_home> you enable reset mode by setting stepspace to 0
[15:14:54] <zeeshan|2> yea its in step/dir mode
[15:15:12] <zeeshan|2> so its set to 0 and it means 44us
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[15:16:45] <pcw_home> 22 us minimum period if stepspace is 0, 44 usec minimum period if stepspace <> 0
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[15:17:09] <zeeshan|2> oh
[15:17:26] <zeeshan|2> im in step/dir mode for the drivers
[15:17:39] <zeeshan|2> so its set to 0
[15:18:00] <pcw_home> you said stepspace was 3000 above
[15:18:23] <zeeshan|2> man im so stupid
[15:18:34] <zeeshan|2> im looking at stepgen step_type = 0
[15:18:36] <zeeshan|2> not step space.
[15:18:40] <zeeshan|2> step space is 3000
[15:19:04] <pcw_home> yeah so you may be able to go a bit faster by setting stepspace to 0
[15:19:06] <zeeshan|2> so it is 44.
[15:19:17] <zeeshan|2> i dont know if the stepper drive will ike that
[15:19:23] <zeeshan|2> its the kl8056
[15:19:25] <zeeshan|2> d
[15:20:40] <zeeshan|2> "dir must be ahead of pul active ahead by 5us"
[15:20:46] <zeeshan|2> pulse width not less than 2.5us
[15:20:52] <zeeshan|2> low level width no less than 2.5 us
[15:21:37] <zeeshan|2> so i can make it 2500
[15:21:49] <zeeshan|2> doh
[15:25:02] <pcw_home> you _can_ set stepspace to 0 since the time between 3 usec pulses will be 22-3 -=19 usec
[15:25:22] <pcw_home> (well +- jitter)
[15:25:37] <pcw_home> worth a try in any case
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[15:48:56] <jdh> z: http://tinyurl.com/mbfobat
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[15:58:57] <zeeshan|2> pcw_home: i just checked my hal stepspace was 0
[15:59:00] <zeeshan|2> in it
[15:59:08] <zeeshan|2> jdh wrong kit to buy
[15:59:12] <zeeshan|2> i need a different one for the mill
[16:01:00] <zeeshan|2> my Z axis is set to 1/4 step, 1:1 drive ratio, max ipm 250. and it works without losing steps
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[16:01:45] <zeeshan|2> for my X axis it was 1/4 step: 3:1 drive ratio, max ipm 100 (doesnt loose steps) but at 120 ipm it'll lose steps
[16:01:56] <zeeshan|2> so i set it to 1/2 step: 3:1 drive ratio, max ipm 120 ipm
[16:01:59] <zeeshan|2> and it still loses steps?
[16:02:24] <zeeshan|2> what changeD!!
[16:04:46] -!- asah [asah!~asah@c-69-181-176-3.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:05:05] <zeeshan|2> seems to be that 100 ipm is the magic number for X.
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[16:06:42] <archivist> dont forget the acceleration rate
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[16:13:17] <Rab> Anybody know of a common "test pattern" for characterizing router backlash, etc? I've just been plotting circles and squares, wondering if there's a standard.
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[16:14:14] <PetefromTn_> http://www.cronsrud.com/videos/circle_diamond_square_test.html#.VCrWy_ldVCY
[16:14:56] <Rab> Cool, thanks!
[16:15:06] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[16:15:11] <archivist> Rab, or some form of active measurement, dti/scales etc
[16:17:02] <DaViruz> i don't see that that test proves anything? the points that coincide will always coincide regardless of backlash, no?
[16:17:33] <archivist> the circle will shoe errors
[16:17:38] <archivist> show
[16:17:40] <Rab> I think it depends on the toolpath.
[16:17:43] <DaViruz> unless you approach them from different directinos, which isn't very practical on a stepped surface like that
[16:18:07] <DaViruz> archivist: sure, but the diamond and the square
[16:19:07] <archivist> DaViruz, yes they also show squareness etc the across sides dimensions will be wrong too with backlash
[16:19:20] <DaViruz> sure, the shapes have merits on their own
[16:19:32] <DaViruz> but stacking them like that seems like a pointless exercise to me
[16:19:55] <archivist> all tests are done in one setting
[16:20:47] <archivist> you can also measure if they are actually inline with each other
[16:21:24] <DaViruz> i don't see why they would ever not be
[16:21:55] <archivist> direction you come from, cause errors too
[16:21:57] <DaViruz> at least due to backlash
[16:22:31] <DaViruz> yeah, but that is unrelated to that shape
[16:22:32] <archivist> people often miss stiction and machine spring
[16:22:57] <DaViruz> you don't neccesarily get different approach directions just because you machine a specific shape
[16:23:38] <DaViruz> well, in some cases you pretty much can, but not in that case
[16:24:56] <archivist> the programmer should be controlling(know) approach direction for full validation
[16:25:32] <DaViruz> that is posible, but the video makes no such mention
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[16:27:01] <DaViruz> a useful test would be to machine two squares on top of each other in the same manner, while making sure to aproach the sides on the top one from the center always, and the sides of the bottom one from the outside always
[16:27:15] <DaViruz> if you want to test backlash.
[16:28:31] <DaViruz> though tool forces would pretty much negate it im sure
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[16:38:19] <DaViruz> anyway, what i'm trying to say is that blindly copying that won't be meningful.
[16:43:52] <archivist> it is a well recognised test in qualifying machine accuracy
[16:49:46] <Connor> jdh: You there ?
[16:51:41] <jdh> sometimes
[16:52:40] <Connor> What kind of shark was that tooth from?
[16:53:48] <jdh> small brown tooth?
[16:53:58] <Connor> Yea.
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[16:57:14] <Connor> We're thinking Great White...
[17:01:09] <jdh> back again... Augustiden.
[17:01:22] <jdh> it is a megalodon ancestor
[17:01:27] <Connor> Cool
[17:02:10] <Connor> Wonder how old it is..
[17:02:33] <jdh> 5-15m unless you are a fundy xtian, then it is 6,000
[17:02:49] <Connor> huh ?
[17:03:21] <jdh> normal age range for meg is 5-15million years.
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[17:03:39] <jdh> angustiden woudl be on the 15 side
[17:04:06] <jdh> but, I had some xtians tell me that was impossible because the earth was only 6000 years old.
[17:04:25] <Connor> Oh. Yea.. those people..
[17:04:37] <jdh> http://www.primitivepast.com/catalog/Shark%20Teeth/Angustiden
[17:04:39] <rythmnbls> and flat as a surface plate
[17:05:03] <jdh> that was just the first mostly decent tooth I found in that bucket :)
[17:07:40] <PetefromTn_> just out of curiosity....what other freenode channels do you guys haunt?
[17:07:47] <Connor> Wife is drooling over it.. she's saying it's the coolest thing ever.
[17:08:01] <Connor> There is linuxcnc-devel
[17:08:03] <PetefromTn_> anything worth a damn?
[17:08:04] <jdh> Connor: heh, it was an ok tooth, but not special.
[17:08:06] <Jymmm> Connor: over an old tooth?
[17:08:27] <Connor> She really likes Sharks.
[17:08:41] <Jymmm> ah
[17:08:42] <jdh> I literally have 5 gallon buckets of them.
[17:08:46] <jdh> some 6+ inches
[17:09:24] <Jymmm> jdh: make necklaces, but hand Connor's wife a mop and bucket first =)
[17:09:37] <Connor> She just gasped when I told her that.
[17:09:55] <Jymmm> jdh: Make that a sump pump instead.
[17:10:32] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNOlwEH2Oi4 hehe
[17:10:59] <jdh> I sell them to a wholesaler so I don't have to deal with individual sales
[17:11:51] <Jymmm> jdh: Dude, you're killing Connor's wife there. She's already figuring out if she can get a small bucket/box of them from you and how much =)
[17:12:04] <jdh> just takes cash.
[17:12:15] <Jymmm> jdh: paypal?
[17:12:21] <jdh> sure
[17:12:36] <jdh> or tooling
[17:12:43] <PetefromTn_> or you could just go fishin'
[17:12:51] <Jymmm> jdh: Ok, so how much for a small/medium flat rate priority mail box worth?
[17:13:14] <jdh> heh... I have junk teeth and perfect teeth
[17:13:28] <PetefromTn_> better get to the dentist then
[17:13:29] <jdh> so, $30-$5000
[17:13:56] <Jymmm> jdh: What, could she get for $50 (shipped)?
[17:14:20] <jdh> https://plus.google.com/photos/112430417093824344570/albums/5680256976754560129
[17:14:37] <jdh> one nice 3-4" tooth or a whole lot of junky ones
[17:15:17] <PetefromTn_> that you holding the grouper/snappers?
[17:15:33] <Jymmm> Connor: Ok, it's all on her now =)
[17:16:12] <PetefromTn_> thats's a pretty wild DIY cascade setup man.
[17:17:42] <_methods> nice tank refill station too
[17:17:48] <_methods> you on the yellow river?
[17:17:50] <jdh> the pics at the end are the nicer ones
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[17:19:07] <jdh> Pete: I'm not in any of the pics.
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[17:20:49] <_methods> oh nm you live near wilmington right?
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[17:21:27] <jdh> yep
[17:21:38] <_methods> yeah i'm in charleston
[17:21:48] <jdh> lots of teeth there.
[17:21:54] <PetefromTn_> damn I miss bottom fishin' for groupers and snappers...
[17:21:56] <_methods> yeah we dig em up all the time
[17:22:03] <_methods> we get bored on the wknd
[17:22:03] <jdh> but, I get them in 100ft vis, 81F water
[17:22:12] <_methods> go down to the creek by my house and dig em up
[17:22:23] <_methods> got a 5" megaladon one time
[17:22:30] <_methods> nothing like that one you had there
[17:22:31] <jdh> nice
[17:22:45] <_methods> yeah not bad for just killin time on the wknd in the shade lol
[17:23:10] <_methods> drinkin beers and shakin out teeth lol
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[17:24:17] <jdh> the guy I sell to is in charleston. I stop there on the way to florida for cave diving.
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[17:24:37] <_methods> yeah how much does a 5" go for now anyways?
[17:24:40] <_methods> $50-100?
[17:26:15] <jdh> depends on how good it is. all 3 points, no peeling, etc. could be $500
[17:26:20] <_methods> wow
[17:26:21] <jdh> but mostly 50-80
[17:26:29] <_methods> yeah that's what i thought lol
[17:26:39] <_methods> who you sell to?
[17:26:44] <jdh> JT
[17:26:48] <_methods> my wife probably knows 'em
[17:26:58] <_methods> she's all into metal detecting
[17:26:58] <jdh> that's what he pays. he sells for 2x or more
[17:27:14] <_methods> JT in here?
[17:30:28] <jdh> heh, no... JT's shark teeth. google
[17:30:32] <_methods> kk
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[17:32:12] <Jymmm> Poor Connor, he's having to clean up all that drool... http://www.jtssharksteeth.com/huge1.JPG
[17:33:09] <jdh> that has a lot of peel
[17:33:18] <_methods> omg that website lol
[17:33:52] <Jymmm> jdh: Is the sizing width or height?
[17:34:25] <Jymmm> 6" long tooth or 6" wide tooth?
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[17:35:11] <jdh> longest possible
[17:35:35] <jdh> that lookslike one of mine. how much is it?
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[17:35:48] <_methods> probably like $500
[17:36:03] <_methods> looks like most of the 5"+ were over $300
[17:36:26] <_methods> crazy
[17:36:34] <_methods> guess i'm goin diggin this wknd lol
[17:37:26] <_methods> http://phys.org/news/2014-09-material-oxygen-air.html
[17:37:27] <jdh> where do you dig?
[17:37:37] <_methods> creek bed right next to my house
[17:37:51] <_methods> i got buckets full of the little ones
[17:37:54] <_methods> 1" or less
[17:38:46] <_methods> archeologist guy found a smilidon skeleton down there about 2 years ago
[17:39:32] <_methods> i run into him and his students down there diggin every once in awhile
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[17:49:24] <jdh> call up jt, take your buckets over.
[17:49:46] <_methods> yeah i might have to do that
[17:50:28] <_methods> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2040419302/matchstick-the-streaming-stick-built-on-firefox-os
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[18:05:53] <_methods> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptUj8JRAYu8
[18:06:12] <ssi> machine will be delivered thursday morning :D
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[18:20:17] <Jymmm> _methods: Yeah, the only part I liked about that, is the comical (staged) being kicked out of the store. When Moz can fix the decades only memory leaks would I then consider OS
[18:20:44] <_methods> yeah lol
[18:21:04] <_methods> mind boggling that it still does that
[18:21:23] <_methods> i can't even run pandora in firefox for more than a couple hours
[18:21:31] <_methods> it crashes it every time
[18:21:36] <Jymmm> _methods: Also, them REMOVING features annoys the fuck out of me.
[18:21:53] <_methods> that's the hip thing now
[18:22:21] <Jymmm> _methods: I like my task bar, I like being able to disable JS, I shouldn't need to search for plugins for things that were there already
[18:22:53] <_methods> calm down mozilla knows what's best for you
[18:23:00] <_methods> lol
[18:23:09] <_methods> and google
[18:23:12] <_methods> and microsoft
[18:23:34] <Jymmm> And I know what's best for them too... a bitchslap across the face followed by WTF WERE YOU THINKING?!
[18:24:11] <_methods> i'm not sure even that works
[18:24:16] <_methods> just look at blackberry
[18:24:35] <Jymmm> BB HW is good, OS Sucks
[18:25:30] <Jymmm> BB I tink killed itself on it's last release.
[18:25:33] <Jymmm> think*
[18:25:41] <_methods> they killed theirselves over and over again
[18:25:48] <_methods> cause they aren't payin attention to the users
[18:25:53] <_methods> much like mozilla
[18:25:59] <_methods> microsoft
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[18:26:37] <_methods> doing too much coke on commuter flights lol
[18:26:45] <Jymmm> Eh, Wehn my BB8900 dies, I'm not going to get another one, but it's good for a backup.
[18:31:26] <Jymmm> (as long as you pull the battery that is =)
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[18:33:15] <jdh> I have a 9900.
[18:33:38] <jdh> not sure wht I will do when it dies. it is a Work phone. only other choice at the moment is an iphone
[18:34:03] <Jymmm> My BB is just a backup I keep in the car.
[18:35:47] <Jymmm> I carry a 5" android, cause I can't stand scrolling to see something on an iphone.
[18:36:05] <Jymmm> zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out,
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[18:43:14] <mozmck> So what browser do you use Jymmm if you don't like mozilla? I also hate the modern extreme of "less is more", until the software does nothing useful anymore.
[18:44:32] <jdh> I like chrome
[18:44:42] <mozmck> oh, google, bleh!
[18:44:42] <jdh> well, 'like' might be overstating it.
[18:44:43] <roycroft> "modern extreme?
[18:44:45] <roycroft> "
[18:45:27] <roycroft> the long history of unix has been a philosophy of a collection of small tools, each of which does one thing well, that can easily be combined to make powerful commands
[18:45:29] <mozmck> yes, not the whole idea of "less is more", but the modern extreme version of it.
[18:45:52] <roycroft> it's only recently that huge, monolithic bloatware has encroached upon that beautiful model
[18:45:59] <mozmck> Which is why I no longer use Gnome, won't use Unity, etc.
[18:46:28] * roycroft has six xterms open on his main os x desktop at the moment
[18:46:41] <roycroft> i'm not what you call your "modern computer user"
[18:46:47] <roycroft> because i have to actually get work done :)
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[18:47:42] <roycroft> unfortunately i'm patching bash on all our servers for the second time in a week today
[18:47:45] <roycroft> and not getting work done
[18:48:14] <mozmck> I find myself *far* more productive with eclipse than a simple text editor.
[18:49:02] <Tom_itx> wouldn't give you a nickle for eclipse
[18:49:14] <mozmck> And I have no interest in spending huge amounts of time trying to memorize the commands for 500 different command line programs to do what I can do in a few seconds in a good IDE.
[18:49:52] <roycroft> i suppose it has to do with what one is accustomed to doing
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[18:50:11] <mozmck> Not that I don't use the command line programs, but having them tied together in a GUI is quite nice.
[18:50:15] <roycroft> i've been using unix for ~37 years now, so i'm pretty used to that
[18:50:16] <mozmck> yes, that's a large part of it.
[18:50:52] <mozmck> I still have to look in the manual to figure out how to exit vim if I accidentally open it :)
[18:51:27] <roycroft> vi was a nice improvement to ed/ex
[18:51:33] <roycroft> but i still write ed scripts upon occasion
[18:51:58] <mozmck> I use nano, or mc :) works for anything I need so far.
[18:52:11] <roycroft> i prefer a modal editor
[18:52:18] <roycroft> it fits my work flow better than a non-modal one
[18:52:29] <jdh> do you have a vt102 on your walker?
[18:52:37] <roycroft> but fortunately for all of us, we have choices
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[18:53:16] <roycroft> i have a vt103 in my printer room, but i rarely use it these days
[18:53:18] <mozmck> Yes, and that brings us back to the modern extreme of "less is more", it's mostly about eliminating choices.
[18:53:27] <roycroft> my usb to rs232 converter works fine for almost everything
[18:53:39] <roycroft> you can choose not to use less :)
[18:54:33] <mozmck> Gnome radically changed the desktop, and eliminated all kinds of choices and useful features. So I choose not to use Gnome :)
[18:54:46] <roycroft> i disliked gnome from the start
[18:55:09] <roycroft> and then i went to a usenix and that gnome zealot - miguel whats-his-name gave a talk about gnome
[18:55:17] <mozmck> I saw a joke somewhere about macs getting down to a single button - no keyboard, nothing but one button.
[18:55:18] <jdh> and miguel is something of a twit
[18:55:48] -!- md-2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
[18:55:58] <roycroft> with dennis ritchie standing right there in that room he totally excoriated unix and said it wa a horrible design from the beginning, and that dmr and ken could have learned from a real software house like microsoft
[18:56:17] <roycroft> and ranted about how his goal was to replace the unix print system with something sane such as is used in windows
[18:56:18] <mozmck> yuck!
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[18:56:37] <mozmck> why didn't he stay with windows?
[18:56:47] <jdh> he's a mac weenie now
[18:56:52] <rythmnbls> his mono / .net ravings didnt help his rep either
[18:57:16] <roycroft> i just took him to be a lunatic
[18:57:38] <roycroft> and his rant confirmed that my distaste for gnome was well-founded
[18:57:48] <mozmck> I've never used .net I can't stand when a tiny utility like Microchip's Pickit2 requires a 60+MB download of .net to run.
[18:58:16] <mozmck> what desktop do you run roycroft?
[18:58:17] <roycroft> dmr (may he rest in peace) listened attentively and did not react at all to the rant
[18:58:27] <roycroft> i use macs for my desktop/laptops
[18:58:54] <roycroft> but i do probably 98% of my work for my job in xterms
[18:58:56] <mozmck> oh, gag. :)
[18:58:57] <roycroft> so it doesn't really matter
[18:59:25] <roycroft> i'm so done with messing with hardware and software configuration, which is why i use macs
[18:59:33] <roycroft> i buy a mac, i open the box, plug it in, and start working
[18:59:36] <roycroft> no bullshit
[18:59:49] <roycroft> my ui computers are just tools
[19:00:05] <roycroft> i spend enough time dealing with back room servers
[19:00:15] <roycroft> on which i mostly run openbsd, btw
[19:01:19] <_methods> so they announced windows 10 today.........
[19:01:22] <_methods> did they skip 9?
[19:01:27] <roycroft> they should have skipped 8
[19:01:31] <_methods> right
[19:01:34] <roycroft> i installed 8.1 last night to test a plotter
[19:01:38] <roycroft> what a horrible nightmare that is
[19:01:57] <roycroft> i thought 8.0 was the totally useless one
[19:02:05] <roycroft> and 8.1 made it slightly useful again
[19:02:07] <roycroft> not the case
[19:02:40] <rythmnbls> win 2012 is worse, that POS gui on a server, makes no sense
[19:03:30] <roycroft> after this bash bug fiasco i'm less inclined than ever to use linux
[19:04:34] <jdh> bsdCNC
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[19:04:51] <roycroft> i don't mind running linuxcnc on a linux box
[19:04:52] <_methods> it will only cut a straight line
[19:04:56] <_methods> but it will just work
[19:05:02] <ssi> roycroft: I'm 100% with you
[19:05:03] <roycroft> the machine will not be connected to the internet
[19:05:11] <Rab> roycroft, seems like it took Apple a while to respond to that one.
[19:05:15] <roycroft> yes
[19:05:22] <ssi> roycroft: macs are the best tool for the job for people who get anything done these days
[19:05:22] <roycroft> because apple say that nobody uses bash on a mac
[19:06:04] <roycroft> i had forwarded the ssh port on to my mac pro on my home network edge
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[19:06:14] <roycroft> i had to remove that port forward
[19:06:24] <roycroft> i can still vpn into my home network remotely
[19:06:33] <roycroft> but it was nice to be able to just ssh to my mac pro
[19:06:55] <roycroft> i haven't applied the apple patch yet - i don't know if it fixes all published vulnerabilities
[19:07:07] <_methods> nah it doesn't fix it
[19:07:10] <_methods> it's still busted
[19:07:46] <roycroft> that does not surprise me
[19:08:27] <roycroft> at least my raspberry pis have ash and not bash
[19:09:06] <roycroft> my real concern is that the bash bug is just the beginning
[19:09:19] <roycroft> i've been railing on the fsf and their lazy attitude about security for decades
[19:09:22] <roycroft> they really don't care
[19:09:34] <roycroft> rms said these bash bugs are "just a blip"
[19:09:54] <roycroft> and he said that all software has bugs (mostly, but not entirely true, but a horrible attitude to take)
[19:10:17] <Rab> I don't think bash is magically unsafe for humans to use as an interactive shell. You know which environmental variables you're passing by hand.
[19:10:22] <cradek> of course all software has bugs. realism is a horrible attitude?
[19:10:45] <roycroft> and then he went on a rant about how his "free" (i.e. highly encumbrered) software is better than proprietary software because his "free" software has unintentional bugs, but proprietary software *may* have intentional bugs
[19:10:53] <ssi> all software has bugs, the advantage to the fsf model is they're easier to find, and they get widespread, fast attention when they're found
[19:11:05] <Rab> I think the moral is not to call it from system services which improperly sanitize their own input.
[19:11:30] <roycroft> if he said "all software has bugs, and ours is no better than the rest, so we're working hard to minimise them and fix them as quickly as we find them" that would be ok
[19:11:32] <_methods> or don't sanitize at all
[19:11:47] <ssi> rms is a lunatic
[19:11:47] <roycroft> but his attitude was more like "all software has bugs - so what?"
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[19:11:51] <ssi> I wouldn't put much stock in his words
[19:11:57] <roycroft> sure
[19:12:00] <ssi> I've met him a few times :P
[19:12:02] <roycroft> but he has thousands of acolytes
[19:12:16] <roycroft> the fsf are the tea party of the software world
[19:12:30] <ssi> lul
[19:12:42] <roycroft> and i'm not anti open source at all
[19:12:48] <roycroft> i'm very much pro open source
[19:12:57] <roycroft> i'm also pro proprietary software
[19:13:17] <roycroft> my attitude is that if you write the code you should be able to dictate the terms of its use and distribution
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[19:13:31] <roycroft> the bsd license allows for that
[19:13:34] <roycroft> the gpl does not
[19:13:47] <roycroft> but gpl is not my issue today
[19:14:03] <roycroft> my issue is the crappy quality of gnu (not all gpl'ed, but specifically gnu) code
[19:14:05] <ssi> I'm not crazy about gpl either
[19:14:12] <brianmorel99> Does anyone have any recommendations for a mini itx case ?
[19:14:13] <roycroft> and the crappy attitude of the gnu maintainers
[19:14:27] <roycroft> remember, rms hates passwords
[19:14:31] <roycroft> he thinks all systems should be "open"
[19:14:34] <roycroft> and "free"
[19:14:58] <roycroft> why would he care about bugs that allow for remote exploits if he doesn't believe in passwords?
[19:15:02] <cradek> [citation needed]
[19:15:15] <ssi> lol
[19:15:44] <ssi> more citably, he uses a relatively old crappy chinese netbook because it's the only thing he could find which didn't have proprietary bios code
[19:15:48] <roycroft> if i can find something quickly
[19:15:49] <ssi> he's a lunatic
[19:16:05] <roycroft> i remember his rants about passwords on usenet back in the mid '80s
[19:17:39] <roycroft> http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/15/richard-stallman-letter/
[19:17:48] <roycroft> he discusses his philosophy about security a bit in that letter
[19:19:55] <cradek> People should not be allowed to enter others’ computers without
[19:19:56] <cradek> permission
[19:19:59] <cradek> ...
[19:20:12] <roycroft> that has nothing to do with passwords
[19:20:24] <roycroft> "Indeed, no one ever broke security on
[19:20:25] <roycroft> the AI lab's system, because we decided not to implement any."
[19:20:28] <cradek> neither does a system on a campus in 1971
[19:20:31] <roycroft> that is the part that is relevent
[19:21:05] <cradek> eh
[19:21:27] <roycroft> well i can't be bothered to do a bunch of research to give you citations
[19:21:40] <roycroft> you may choose to believe me or not
[19:21:45] <roycroft> whether you do or not does not matter to me
[19:22:01] <roycroft> and i'm not interested enough to go dig out ancient usenet archives to prove the point
[19:22:20] <cradek> ok, by all means go on, thanks
[19:23:53] <roycroft> i'm also not spending my second full work day patching ancient bourne shell sloppy coding bugs
[19:25:48] <roycroft> the biggest indictment of all was the article i read yesterday where a fsf spokesperson said "the bug (sic) goes back to 1.13, we think. we really don't know because we don't have comprehensive changelogs."
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[19:32:05] <t12> lol
[19:32:07] <t12> on the otherhand
[19:32:10] <t12> everyone gets what they pay for
[19:32:12] <t12> re gnu:
[19:32:14] <t12> nothing
[19:32:22] <t12> stallman is a total weirdo
[19:32:30] <t12> but he also dedicated his life to writing a bunch of code for everyone else to use for free
[19:32:53] <t12> at pretty much his expense and everyone elses gain
[19:36:51] * Loetmichel is just eating dinner: an 1kg bucket of "straciatella" joghurt ;-) (it will reach best before date on 6th of october, so better kill it than throw it away ;)
[19:36:55] <CaptHindsight> Stallman also suffers from mental illness but he uses his obsessive behaviors to his and our advantage
[19:39:05] <CaptHindsight> you want watchdogs like him to be on the lookout
[19:39:13] <mozmck> One of the things you pay microsoft and apple for is hidden backdoors and un-fettered spying on everything you do. Google does this without most people paying them for it, but in a more Trojan Horse kind of way. At least most of the open source software does not do this (not talking about Ubuntu here!)
[19:41:26] <CaptHindsight> speaking of hidden back doors, what's a good way to backup a Linuxcnc install in case the customer borks it or screws up their password somehow?
[19:41:49] <cradek> mozmck: but those companies hide their weirdos carefully, so the folks who mistakenly think this is about personalities can find them more appealing
[19:42:15] <_methods> rsync
[19:42:18] <jdh> vs. parading them out for conferneces?
[19:42:25] <cradek> right
[19:42:41] <mozmck> :) like Balmer throwing chairs etc?
[19:42:47] <jdh> good point.
[19:42:58] <cradek> throwing chairs in an endearing way?
[19:43:14] <jdh> i bet ballmer bathes
[19:43:15] <mozmck> nah, throwing them at people in meetings I heard.
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[19:46:36] <CaptHindsight> why are people more concerned with a persons image vs what they actually stand and work for?
[19:46:49] <jdh> it's more interesting.
[19:47:42] <Rab> RMS is an interesting character. He has a strict set of ethical principals and abides by them with total logical rigor. It drives people crazy; actually living your principles is very threatening behavior in our society.
[19:47:59] <CaptHindsight> psychological manipulation
[19:48:06] <cradek> CaptHindsight: it's easier and takes a lot less thought
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[19:49:13] <cradek> you can point and laugh and retweet in a few seconds and never have to give it another thought
[19:49:21] <Rab> I think he's very admirable whether you share his principals or not.
[19:49:30] <Rab> Except for stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ
[19:50:13] <skunkworks_> cradek, cutter comp - it has to touch ever segment?
[19:50:14] <cradek> hang on lemme retweet that
[19:50:20] <CaptHindsight> lol
[19:50:35] <cradek> skunkworks_: yes
[19:51:08] <skunkworks_> ok - so if a segment would disapear because of the offset - it is considered 'gouging'?
[19:51:09] <cradek> skunkworks_: if the tool can't get to the segment without gouging into adjacent segments, you get an error saying what went wrong
[19:51:21] <skunkworks_> ok
[19:51:29] <cradek> you'd have to show me a picture
[19:52:26] <cradek> like it's easy to have a small move in a corner that can't be touched without cutting into the adjacent "walls"
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[19:53:03] <cradek> -> O___,|
[19:53:09] <cradek> everyone admire my ascii art
[19:53:47] <cradek> if the tool (O) is too big to touch that little move in the corner it's an error
[19:53:47] <skunkworks> http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/Screenshot%20from%202014-09-30%2014:51:39.png
[19:54:23] <cradek> which color is the nominal path?
[19:54:47] <skunkworks> red is un-offset
[19:55:03] <cradek> this isn't an error is it? if you make the tool much bigger it is though, I bet
[19:55:10] <skunkworks> correct
[19:55:33] <skunkworks> that is right at the limit
[19:55:38] <cradek> yep that's what I expect to happen
[19:55:42] <skunkworks> ok
[19:56:04] <cradek> it doesn't know how to throw out segments
[19:56:10] <cradek> that way lies madness
[19:56:12] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yes, been considering that with a complete image of their system on a separate partition and an additional su account
[19:56:21] <_methods> yeah
[19:56:22] <skunkworks> That is what I assume. I bet it gets exponentially harder
[19:56:28] <_methods> i like rsync
[19:56:30] <_methods> simple
[19:57:25] <CaptHindsight> they delete the wrong file like the HAL or INI file they are actually using
[19:57:40] <_methods> yeah keep progressive rsync's
[19:58:23] <CaptHindsight> it's always some panic call, "it broke!" "can't login or it won't start"
[19:58:24] <cradek> bbl
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[20:05:13] <_methods> CaptHindsight: you have ssh access to your customer rigs?
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[20:05:43] <CaptHindsight> _methods: yes, but it for the ones with no network connection
[20:05:50] <_methods> ah yeah that sux
[20:06:08] <CaptHindsight> some are behind layers of firewalls
[20:06:17] <_methods> yeah it's never easy
[20:07:10] <CaptHindsight> with security comes great responsibility
[20:07:10] <_methods> yeah a hidden partition with an original setup and rsync progressive backups would be the way to go
[20:07:34] <_methods> and maybe write a script to load the rsyncs
[20:07:40] <_methods> that they can run easily
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[20:11:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ironkey.com/en-US/ might have to consider this as well
[20:11:39] <CaptHindsight> biometric authentication vs just password
[20:12:14] <_methods> i haven't tried any biometric stuff for liek 4 years now
[20:12:21] <_methods> i had a laptop with it
[20:12:24] <_methods> pain in the dick
[20:12:53] <_methods> i'm guessin by now someone has gotten it smoothed out
[20:12:56] <Rab> You can use your finger, you know.
[20:13:01] <CaptHindsight> I had a laptop with it as well, I could just slide a few fingers over the scanner to login
[20:13:16] <_methods> i could never get it to work right
[20:13:30] <_methods> i woul have to slide over it like 10 times
[20:13:45] <_methods> it was so annoying i just went back to pw
[20:14:27] <CaptHindsight> it'a an HP (old core duo 32b) but I haven't used it in a while and now I've lost the BIOS password
[20:14:41] <Loetmichel> WOHAh... thats strong. the chinese ebay sellers have answeered. they want to chas back 3(!) eurs of the 50 eur bill for the two 64gig flasdrives that are 1/8th the speed they advertized...
[20:15:27] <CaptHindsight> it was great until I ran a BIOS update and then the batteries started dying prematurely, they probably forgot to include that feature in the original
[20:17:28] <CaptHindsight> Loetmichel: yeah, they figure that you'll just keep them vs return since the return shipping costs so much
[20:18:46] <_methods> do a charge back on them
[20:19:02] <roycroft> if it's ebay open a case on ebay
[20:19:21] <roycroft> that's a lot easier and more productive than doing a chargeback with your credit card issuer
[20:19:41] <CaptHindsight> happened to me with a USB microscope, was actually VGA vs 5MP res
[20:19:54] <_methods> aghhh
[20:19:58] <_methods> i got nailed by the same shit
[20:20:03] <_methods> 5mp my asss
[20:20:05] <roycroft> i've only had to open a handful of cases with ebay over the years, but 100% of them were resolved to my satisfaction
[20:21:44] <Rab> CaptHindsight, the MP rating often refers to still picture capability. And sometimes it's upscaled by the desktop software.
[20:22:14] <CaptHindsight> Rab: that was their response, "we meant that the software can handle 5MP"
[20:22:22] <Rab> Haha, pitiful.
[20:22:29] <CaptHindsight> I got them to change their ad
[20:22:54] <CaptHindsight> took them 3 tries to get all the misleading info from the page :)
[20:24:15] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-200X-USB-Digital-Pen-Microscope-Endoscope-Magnifier-Camera-5MP-LED-/161328447745 was just like this listing
[20:24:18] <Loetmichel> roycroft: case is aready open.
[20:24:42] <Loetmichel> and if they dont comply i will simply tell paypal to redfund me because seller is unreasonable
[20:27:00] <CaptHindsight> you have a good case if they specifically listed it as the higher speed version
[20:27:58] <CaptHindsight> or like my 300kP vs 5MP microscope :)
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[20:35:46] <mozmck> I need to get a good usb microscope, any suggestions for one that is good and not too expensive?
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[20:37:50] <roycroft> i opened a case once with both ebay and paypal
[20:37:54] <roycroft> paypal refunded my money
[20:38:03] <roycroft> ebay found in favor of me and told the seller to refund my money
[20:38:17] <roycroft> i told the seller that i already had my money from paypal, but he refunded it again anyway
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[20:38:21] <roycroft> and this was on a $400 item
[20:40:02] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: I don't have this exact one but I hear it's nice https://www.adafruit.com/products/636
[20:40:39] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDAYin-jzp8 actual video
[20:43:41] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i ordered from them 2 times
[20:43:52] <Loetmichel> the first batch was good, the second is very bad
[20:44:17] <Loetmichel> so i will call a "bait and swich" if they dont comply...
[20:44:23] <Loetmichel> i think i am pretty good...
[20:45:23] <Loetmichel> http://www.ebay.de/itm/351050836974 <- ordering THAT and getting that: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=15315&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
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[21:01:33] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:04:53] <_methods> CaptHindsight: did you ever find a good microscope?
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[21:24:28] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I found the Logitech C270 and the C310 to work well with minor mods for camview edge finding/ZEROing
[21:24:44] <CaptHindsight> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/webcam-communications/webcams for budget applications
[21:27:59] <CaptHindsight> otherwise I use real image sensors and lenses for precise work http://www.hirox-usa.com/products/mount_lens/mx_series/mx-10c.html http://www.edmundoptics.com/imaging/cameras/gigabit-ethernet-cameras/avt-prosilica-gt-series-gige-cameras/3583 or similar
[21:28:09] <Rab> I just bought a C260 off eBay, works great for close focus and it was <$15 shipped.
[21:28:23] <Rab> (Same as C270)
[21:29:03] <Rab> CaptHindsight, what are your mods? Disassembly and focus adjustment?
[21:29:09] <CaptHindsight> Rab: I just needed to open the case so I could rotate the lens slightly to get in closer
[21:29:19] <Rab> Ahh right
[21:31:07] <Rab> I also got a Microsoft LifeCam 5001 which I like better than the Logitech. More compact and better image quality. It does have a little autofocus element which needs to be desoldered or set with uvcdynctrl.
[21:35:34] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1c9zuonpOcyi C270, 100um gap, sobel edge detect
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[21:37:12] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.ca/v/1cA0LyuHgway vga webcam, 100um gap, sobel
[21:39:43] <CaptHindsight> the second pic is a VGA microscope, like that supposed 5MP pencil type on ebay that was actually only VGA
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[22:03:30] <CaptHindsight> Rab: it would be nice to be able to use the autofocus and then lock it at it closest setting for edge detection
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[22:04:13] <CaptHindsight> Rab: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/d/lifecam-hd-5001 is the focus actually motorized?
[22:04:34] <Rab> CaptHindsight, yeah. It's some kind of element in the lens with two leads you can unsolder.
[22:04:54] <Rab> I imagine it's a lens in a coil like a CD pickup.
[22:06:17] <Rab> I can't get the UVC utilities to compile on my workstation, but supposedly you can set auto or a manual range of 0-40.
[22:07:41] <Rab> The lens can be physically rotated to change focus, so autofocus is operating on whatever focal plane you set the lens to.
[22:08:34] <Rab> Note that the HD-5001 is exactly the same as the HD-5000, it's just special Best Buy branding or something. (Same deal with C260/C270).
[22:12:37] <Rab> I think in an ideal setup the edge detection software would fine-tune focus first, sending parameters to uvcdynctrl, then proceed to edge recognition mode.
[22:13:29] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-6-LED-1-3M-Clip-WebCam-Web-Camera-w-Microphone-MIC-/330616795036 was also useable and only ~$4
[22:13:44] <Rab> The native autofocus function is really annoying because it wigs out and refocuses from time to time. Lots of complaints from people trying to use it to record videocasts etc.
[22:15:45] <CaptHindsight> ebay should just delete these types of listings http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-50-0M-6-LED-CMOS-PC-Camera-Network-Webcam-with-MIC-For-Pc-SG-/221557274594
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[22:17:31] <Rab> CaptHindsight, a friend of mine is using cheap cams similar to that one for pick'n'place projects: https://github.com/jerkey/homer
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[22:18:00] <Rab> (Item 330616795036)
[22:20:40] <CaptHindsight> Rab: is that project pick-n-place using duino+rpi vs PC+Linuxcnc?
[22:21:01] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I think it runs on a BeagleBone Black.
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[22:29:24] <CaptHindsight> http://hackaday.io/project/963/log/10095-esd-mitigation-strategy Yikes!
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[23:34:23] <zeeshan|2> hi!
[23:41:42] <zeeshan|2> can someone explain the reason why i lose steps in one scenario and not in the other:
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[23:42:05] <zeeshan|2> scenario 1: 1/4 step mode, 100 ipm, 3:1 drive ratio.
[23:42:11] <zeeshan|2> (no step loss)
[23:42:28] <zeeshan|2> scenario 2: 1/4 step mode, 120ipm, 3:1 drive ratio. (loss of steps
[23:42:43] <zeeshan|2> scenario 2: 1/2 step mode, 120ipm, 3:1 drive ratio. (loss of steps)
[23:42:49] <zeeshan|2> scenario 3 i mean
[23:44:11] <zeeshan|2> i also tried to change the acceleration rate
[23:44:15] <zeeshan|2> to much less. half the value
[23:44:17] <zeeshan|2> still step loss
[23:44:24] <zeeshan|2> makes no sense to me
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[23:50:16] <CaptHindsight> electric kilns build vs buy, 1600 °C (2900°F) internal volume ~8 x 4 x 4 inch
[23:51:04] <malcom2073> What do you use to heat that sort of thing, gas?
[23:51:17] <malcom2073> I assume electric can't get that hot?
[23:51:19] <zeeshan|2> electricity
[23:51:27] <zeeshan|2> why not
[23:51:33] <CaptHindsight> gas or electric, I'm looking for electric
[23:51:33] <zeeshan|2> you can weld metal with electricity
[23:51:34] <zeeshan|2> :D
[23:51:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.nabertherm-usa.com/produkte/details/en/advancedmaterials_hochtemperaturoefen
[23:51:59] <malcom2073> Ok then, what kind of metal do you use for the heaters? heh
[23:52:23] <CaptHindsight> ^^ on that page you can see the heater elements available
[23:52:31] <malcom2073> Ah cool
[23:52:33] <Rab> malcom2073, induction heating.
[23:53:04] <zeeshan|2> rab help me fix my step loss
[23:53:05] <zeeshan|2> :{
[23:53:11] <malcom2073> Oh cool, silicon carbide in this case
[23:53:14] <zeeshan|2> youre a master electronics person!
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[23:54:04] <Rab> zeeshan|2, I had step loss in my FleshCut setup. So I A) turned off microstepping, B) dropped the max speed until it stopped losing steps.
[23:54:15] <zeeshan|2> rab thats what is confusing me
[23:54:19] <zeeshan|2> i went from 1/4 to 1/2 step
[23:54:26] <Rab> I don't think I am the right person to help you have a non-ghetto setup.
[23:54:28] <zeeshan|2> kept speed the same
[23:54:38] <zeeshan|2> theoretically i should be able to generate more pulses
[23:54:40] <zeeshan|2> in a given period of time
[23:54:47] <zeeshan|2> by dropping the microstep
[23:54:52] <zeeshan|2> hehe
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[23:54:59] <zeeshan|2> your setup isnt ghetto!
[23:55:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Complete-Microwave-Gold-Smelting-Kiln-Kit-with-Pouring-Mold-Crucibles-Flux-Tongs-/380966663672
[23:55:35] <Rab> zeeshan|2, you're too kind.
[23:55:55] <zeeshan|2> did you fix your backlash
[23:56:07] <CaptHindsight> Gold melts at 1064C or 1948F, hows that for the microwave!
[23:58:11] <ssi> phew
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[23:58:23] <zeeshan|2> sssssssssssssi
[23:58:26] <zeeshan|2> fixxxxx it!
[23:58:35] <ssi> mesa :)
[23:58:40] <zeeshan|2> nooo
[23:59:16] <PCW> mesa and 32 usteps FTW
[23:59:22] <ssi> PCW++
[23:59:23] <_methods> amen
[23:59:28] <zeeshan|2> i get it for mill
[23:59:31] <zeeshan|2> not lathe!
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[23:59:38] <ssi> then enjoy your step loss!
[23:59:40] <zeeshan|2> why i am confused is
[23:59:41] <_methods> if you go over 130 do you still lose steps?
[23:59:44] <zeeshan|2> my Z axis is running at 250 ipm.
[23:59:48] <zeeshan|2> but its 1:1 drive ratio
[23:59:54] <zeeshan|2> where as X axis is 3:1