#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-09-23

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[00:06:09] <cpresser_> SpeedEvil: ask shakespeare. his native language is klingon
[00:12:59] <Jymmm> cpresser_: Hab SoSlI' Quch
[00:13:53] <PetefromTn_> here's a stupid question for you guys LOL
[00:14:12] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: No, we won't touch you in your special place.
[00:14:27] <PetefromTn_> I have a custom part I machined that has some elaborate contours and curvatures on it.
[00:14:41] <PetefromTn_> I designed it in my CAD and made and sold quite a few of them now.
[00:15:07] <PetefromTn_> Today I got a call from a customer who basically wants me to shrink the design in vertical height but keep the shape.
[00:15:49] <PetefromTn_> I was wondering if there is some cad feature or otherwise feature that will allow me to MORPH the design to be shorter yet retain the same look without having to redraw everything....
[00:16:25] <PetefromTn_> just to save some time because this is not the first time I have had a request like this.
[00:16:37] <Jymmm> You can either scale in alll axis, or distort it
[00:16:52] <PetefromTn_> okay...how
[00:16:58] <Jymmm> This is without evr seeing the part.
[00:17:06] <Jymmm> Need to see it to say
[00:17:07] <PetefromTn_> lets assume it is a .dxf 2d file
[00:17:18] <Jymmm> just post a pic
[00:17:23] <PetefromTn_> why?
[00:17:40] <cpresser_> use the scale operation of autocad. done.
[00:17:45] <PetefromTn_> can you scale in a single axis or something like that.
[00:17:48] <Jymmm> To give you ideas other than the two I already said
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[00:18:14] <PetefromTn_> scale in autocad from what I know of it works in both directions.
[00:18:22] <Jymmm> cpresser_: he wants to scale, but only in ONE axis.
[00:18:25] <PetefromTn_> is there some way to scale vertically?
[00:18:39] <XXCoder> Z scale?
[00:18:40] <cpresser_> google 'autocad scale single axis'
[00:18:46] <cpresser_> finds a lot of solutions.
[00:19:01] <cpresser_> i know how to do it in inkscape and vcarve, they both have options for that
[00:19:01] <Jymmm> cpresser_: but that's all distorted.
[00:19:14] <cpresser_> Jymmm: sure it is
[00:19:22] <Jymmm> it's going to E X P A N D
[00:19:34] <cpresser_> thats the idea behind scaling :)
[00:19:54] <cpresser_> perhaps, what you want is node editing. moving a bunch of nodes at a time.
[00:20:18] <PetefromTn_> googling..
[00:20:22] <Jymmm> cpresser_: yes, maintining ratio on both acis, but he doesn't want to scale X, just Y
[00:20:48] <cpresser_> http://imgur.com/4xFTI47
[00:21:20] <Jymmm> cpresser_: he says it has elaboart curves, but doens't want to shoe it. *shrug*
[00:21:24] <Jymmm> show*
[00:21:38] <cpresser_> http://imgur.com/JtCVZNs
[00:22:08] <PetefromTn_> what program is that?
[00:22:09] <cpresser_> thats how i scale in one direction. however, that does also distort the radius
[00:22:18] <zeeshan|2> i am quiet impressed by the girls at school that im teaching
[00:22:20] <Jymmm> cpresser_: Undo the scale, then hit CTRL+A and scale then fucker =)
[00:22:21] <cpresser_> vcarve-pro (non-free software)
[00:22:23] <PetefromTn_> I figured it would distort radii.
[00:22:26] <zeeshan|2> with little instruction
[00:22:31] <zeeshan|2> they know how to machine ap art on a mill
[00:22:37] <zeeshan|2> without ever using a mill before
[00:22:58] <zeeshan|2> some guys are ok
[00:23:07] <zeeshan|2> but most make major errors
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[00:23:11] <zeeshan|2> and ruin their part
[00:23:12] <cpresser_> corel-draw or illustrator also has those option (unlink axes bevore scaling)
[00:23:33] <Jymmm> cpresser_: You only scaled one element, not the whole part =)
[00:23:35] <cpresser_> my guess would be that virtually any CAD programm can do it
[00:23:45] <cpresser_> Jymmm: in the fist picture, yes
[00:23:47] <roycroft> i found when i was first taking machining courses that the majority of the guys were arrogant, would not listen, and were reckless on the machines
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[00:23:56] <Jymmm> cpresser_: I know =)
[00:24:01] <roycroft> and the women (there were only a couple) were thoughtful and attentive
[00:24:13] <roycroft> and they made better parts, faster, than most of the guys
[00:24:17] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: isn't that crazy?
[00:24:20] <zeeshan|2> how you notice that trend
[00:24:28] <Jymmm> cpresser_: What's the triple red nides mean?
[00:24:34] <Jymmm> nodes*
[00:24:39] <roycroft> i think part of it is a macho thing
[00:24:54] <roycroft> it would be interesting to see that same group of guys in a machining class without any women
[00:25:01] <roycroft> they would probably be a little more chill
[00:25:08] <zeeshan|2> next couple of groups are all guys
[00:25:24] <cpresser_> same part again, this time original and scaled version side by side: http://imgur.com/LDUwbDQ
[00:25:29] <roycroft> but get a woman in the class and they all want to show off
[00:25:33] <zeeshan|2> aha
[00:25:36] <zeeshan|2> damn guys
[00:25:42] <zeeshan|2> flexing their manhoods all the time
[00:25:46] <cpresser_> Jymmm: those are the nodes i did select.
[00:25:47] <PetefromTn_> cpresser_ Thanks man. I think I found a solution.
[00:25:47] <Jymmm> cpresser_: TY )
[00:25:49] <roycroft> the funny thing is, the women were lesbians
[00:25:56] <roycroft> and the guys did not notice
[00:26:02] <zeeshan|2> rofl
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[00:26:23] <roycroft> i found it entertaining to a degree
[00:26:24] <zeeshan|2> so basicaly the lab consists of teaching them and using a mill within 3 hours
[00:26:27] <roycroft> but also annoying
[00:26:32] <zeeshan|2> and holding 2 tolerances down to .02 mm
[00:26:39] <zeeshan|2> its quite a bit of challenge
[00:26:42] <zeeshan|2> when they dont remember anything about fits
[00:26:50] <roycroft> we started out on a sensitive drill press
[00:26:52] <zeeshan|2> and dont know the controls, or understand job planning or work holding
[00:27:01] <roycroft> and our first work on the mill was without power
[00:27:12] <roycroft> i still remember that project
[00:27:18] <roycroft> and i still have the drill gauge that i made
[00:27:24] <zeeshan|2> nice
[00:27:30] <zeeshan|2> these are mech engs
[00:27:35] <zeeshan|2> so i try to use mech eng knowledge wherever i can
[00:27:41] <zeeshan|2> ie tool stick out is like a cantilever beam
[00:27:53] <zeeshan|2> conventional milling vs climb imagine is using the velocity vectors
[00:27:58] <zeeshan|2> (directions)
[00:28:01] <zeeshan|2> they seem to follow that
[00:28:27] <roycroft> i do a fair amount of project management - civil work
[00:28:27] <zeeshan|2> remind them of right hand rule when they're trying to tighten or loosen something
[00:28:34] <roycroft> i get along with construction crews really well
[00:28:41] <roycroft> because i've worked in the trades
[00:28:45] <roycroft> and i spend time out in the field
[00:28:59] <roycroft> they're used to ivory tower engineers who've never gotten their hands dirty
[00:29:02] <zeeshan|2> its kinda like that at manufacuting facilities
[00:29:07] <roycroft> and don't know how things work in practice
[00:29:09] <zeeshan|2> just opening that door from the office to the floor
[00:29:12] <zeeshan|2> huge change of environment
[00:29:17] <roycroft> yup
[00:29:27] <zeeshan|2> i hate to admit it
[00:29:35] <roycroft> i think every engineer ought to spend a year in the trades before getting licensed
[00:29:38] <zeeshan|2> a lot of engineers i see dont liek to get down and dirty
[00:29:49] <zeeshan|2> yet they think they know it all
[00:29:51] <roycroft> yup
[00:29:57] <zeeshan|2> not much practical experience
[00:30:09] <zeeshan|2> i really got a big smile today
[00:30:17] <zeeshan|2> when one of the students was talking to his friend
[00:30:18] <zeeshan|2> and he's like
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[00:30:22] <zeeshan|2> "damn that took so long to do"
[00:30:25] <zeeshan|2> "looked so simple to make"
[00:30:37] <roycroft> so this is a true story
[00:30:51] <roycroft> a couple summers ago i was managing a fiber optic install
[00:30:54] <roycroft> which is what i do
[00:31:12] <roycroft> i was out supervising, and the crew popped a sidewalk lid right next to a utility pole
[00:31:26] <roycroft> then they started digging, and hit a 4 pair phone line that was not located
[00:31:57] <roycroft> the city engineering folks (this was a municipal project) wanted to go design a way of splicing it back together
[00:32:11] <roycroft> i sent a guy to the store to get a ug repair kit
[00:32:20] <roycroft> and he was back in 20 minutes with it done
[00:32:24] <zeeshan|2> hah
[00:32:26] <roycroft> city engineering had plans drawn up the next day
[00:32:42] <zeeshan|2> well the thing about engineering is
[00:32:44] <roycroft> we had already refilled the hole and were forming up to pour the lid
[00:32:48] <zeeshan|2> we're taughing to really think about the problem
[00:32:53] <roycroft> sure
[00:32:54] <roycroft> but
[00:32:56] <zeeshan|2> so sometimes its very easy to overcomplicate/overthink things
[00:33:03] <LeelooMinai> Then you had to open it again:)
[00:33:04] <zeeshan|2> cause lack of practical experience
[00:33:04] <roycroft> someone thought about that problem 75 years ago
[00:33:09] <roycroft> and designed something to fix it
[00:33:17] <zeeshan|2> yes that just sounds like lack of practical exp
[00:33:22] <roycroft> which is available everywhere, because people cut through phone cables every day
[00:33:41] <zeeshan|2> i'd just use some electrical tape
[00:33:43] <zeeshan|2> and call it a day :-)
[00:33:45] <roycroft> we had a bit of a discussion
[00:34:01] <roycroft> in the city manager's office, unfortunately
[00:34:24] <roycroft> i told him that the contractors wanted a change order because of the delay
[00:34:28] <roycroft> which would have cost the city a lot of money
[00:34:45] <zeeshan|2> its _only_ tax payer money
[00:34:46] <zeeshan|2> waste it!
[00:34:47] <roycroft> except i had them fix it with a $40 off-the-shelf splice kit
[00:34:57] <roycroft> and it didn't delay them at all
[00:35:14] <roycroft> municipalities have no money to waste
[00:35:26] <roycroft> they have to scrimp and save every penny they can now
[00:35:54] <roycroft> when the economy crashed in 2008 municipal government got hit harder than almost every other sector
[00:36:04] <roycroft> it was a triple-play slam to them
[00:36:26] <zeeshan|2> doh
[00:36:30] <roycroft> lower tax rates meant less tax revenue
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[00:36:48] <roycroft> our state income tax is pegged to the federal tax level, so there was even more of a reduction in tax revenue
[00:37:00] <roycroft> and since everyone was unemployed, demand for services went way up
[00:37:18] <roycroft> a quadrulpe whammy, i guess
[00:37:35] <zeeshan|2> what state
[00:37:41] <roycroft> since the economic collapse meant less business conducted, and an even further reduction in tax revenue
[00:37:42] <roycroft> oregon
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[00:37:56] <zeeshan|2> yea an economic crises
[00:38:01] <zeeshan|2> is always a downward spiral for most people
[00:38:02] <roycroft> many states peg their income taxes to the federal tax lelve
[00:38:04] <roycroft> level
[00:38:22] <roycroft> of course, i'm never the hero when i do quick, cheap fixes
[00:38:31] <roycroft> i'm the bad guy who circumvents process
[00:39:03] <roycroft> we had another situation on that same job where some traffic signal control lines were not located accurately
[00:39:19] <roycroft> fortunately, they were not cut, but they were in the way of a vault i neeeded to place
[00:39:29] <roycroft> again, the contractor wanted a change order
[00:39:42] <roycroft> i told him to put a metal plate over the hole and i ordered a different vault that would fit
[00:39:49] <roycroft> and he set the vault later on
[00:40:00] <roycroft> city engineering did not like that either
[00:40:40] <roycroft> and the funny thing is, the reason i project managed that fiber plant was because city engineering not only knew absolutely nothing about fiber plants, they very vocally stated that they did not want to know anything about fiber
[00:40:53] <roycroft> they do water, sewers, and roads, and want to stick to those things
[00:41:27] <roycroft> anyway, the city decided they can't afford an outside project manager any more for these things
[00:41:37] <roycroft> so now engineering do the project management, and write change orders every week
[00:41:56] <roycroft> i just laugh at them
[00:42:06] <zeeshan|2> monopoly!
[00:42:22] <roycroft> well first of all they don't apply any creative energy towards a solution
[00:42:30] <roycroft> and secondly, they are rarely on site
[00:42:48] <roycroft> and the contrators know that, and so they bid low to get the job and know they can make crap up to get change orders left and right
[00:43:06] <roycroft> most of the change orders are completely unnecessary
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[00:43:43] <roycroft> so i guess the moral is that you're going to pay up front, or pay even more in the end
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[00:45:49] * roycroft is done with his rant about engineers with no practical experience in the real world now
[00:46:03] <roycroft> it's a recurring theme of mine, though
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[00:48:59] <jdh> I do manufacturing.
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[01:20:08] <Connor> jdh: You have access to any DIN components?
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[01:22:08] <Connor> I have some WIELAND Terminal blocks.. and needs some jumpers /
[01:22:52] <ssi> I made a cushion
[01:22:53] <ssi> weee
[01:23:02] <ssi> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t34.0-12/10706346_10100483399066902_243005492_n.jpg?oh=785217dc9dc9266ad43469d225828263&oe=5423F322&__gda__=1411563990_86ffd624bb6becca36e43f70959dc5f3
[01:24:18] <Connor> ssi: Um... Okay....
[01:24:50] <ssi> WHAT
[01:24:53] <ssi> DON'T JUDGE ME
[01:25:56] <Jymmm> /join ##hamradio
[01:26:09] <ssi> you can't make me
[01:33:41] <jdh> connor: screw in or comb things?
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[01:33:53] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIELAND-WK-6-U-WK6-U-TERMINAL-BLOCK-/350302317241
[01:33:56] <Connor> I have that.
[01:34:07] <Connor> I need the bars that bridge multiples of those..
[01:35:20] <jdh> how many
[01:36:42] <Connor> Need one for 48v buss.. 4 ganged together... and 4 sets of doubles for AC
[01:38:45] <Connor> I have 2 120v plugs for my setup.. 1 for the spindle itself.. (since it can go up to 16amps) and one for the steppers.. and technically.. one for the PC. but that goes straight into the PC PSU.. So I don't need to do anything with it.
[01:40:22] <Connor> Looking for industrial grade switches now for the power switch for the spindle, steppers, and a rotary one for the coolant.
[01:40:43] <Connor> Was planning on switching the AC on all of those..
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[01:41:10] <Connor> But.. I'm not so sure now.. not able to find much.. most of control switches are for 24v
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[01:45:16] <jdh> they come in strips of 20
[01:46:24] <jdh> mine are weidmuller, but looks about the same.
[01:49:18] <jdh> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz5kbenmrw4VdXFPUTVqQ0NFRm8/edit?usp=sharing
[01:50:28] <roycroft> you could get some contactors with 24vdc coils to do the switching
[01:50:44] <jdh> my 'share' to picasa seems to have disappeared from my phone
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[01:53:45] <jdh> you want manual switches for the spindle/steppers?
[01:54:35] <jdh> you can get relatively cheap 10/20/40A AC SSRs
[01:55:41] <roycroft> those cheap ssrs are not terribly reliable, and they also leak current
[01:55:47] <roycroft> and when they fail they fail closed
[01:56:11] <roycroft> i'm using some on my new brew system control panel, because i have a couple pids that switch on and off almost constantly
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[01:56:29] <roycroft> but i put some contactors that are switched separately between the mains and the ssrs
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[01:56:58] <roycroft> i was almost paranoid about the control panel
[01:57:04] <roycroft> it has 250vac/50a running through it
[01:57:25] <roycroft> high current + wet sloppy process + drinking beer while brewing = disaster potential
[01:58:59] <jdh> the leaking current can be annoying.
[02:00:07] <jdh> I would not agree that they are reliable though. I have hundreds of them in systems at work and don't recal any failures of that nature.
[02:00:41] <roycroft> i personally haven't had any fail, but i've seen many reports of their failing
[02:01:25] <roycroft> it was a simple matter to put contactors in front of mine
[02:02:00] <jdh> takes a lot more current to close a contactor than an SSR
[02:03:37] <roycroft> yes
[02:03:49] <roycroft> that may be a factor in some applications
[02:03:51] <jdh> I can't think of any high current applications we use though so maybe they are just in friendly environments
[02:04:34] <roycroft> *sigh*
[02:04:46] <roycroft> and we're bombing the crap out of brown people on the other side of the world again
[02:04:52] <roycroft> huge bombing mission going on in syria right now
[02:05:54] <jdh> we are protecting hundreds of thousands of them from the evil doers
[02:06:11] <roycroft> yes, and i agree that it needs to be done
[02:06:21] <roycroft> i guess i'm just pretty tired of the united stats doing all the doing
[02:06:35] <roycroft> i don't mean to get into a political conversation
[02:06:55] <roycroft> i just heard about the bombing and reacted
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[02:07:15] <roycroft> process control systems are a much better topic to discuss, i think
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[02:08:45] <jdh> I do that all day though
[02:09:03] <jdh> and part of this evening.
[02:09:21] <jdh> I'm not sure if it is worse when they call me with problems, or when they don't and try to 'fix' them themselves.
[02:09:37] <roycroft> my experience is that i prefer neither
[02:09:48] <roycroft> but if i had to choose one i'd rather be called
[02:10:19] <jdh> we run 24x7, only other choice is it sits until I get there in the morning and we are still paying operators.
[02:10:28] <roycroft> i have a kind of nice situation in a way right now
[02:10:33] <roycroft> i carry a pager when i am not at wlrk
[02:10:44] <roycroft> and i get paid a small sum per hour just to carry it
[02:10:48] <jdh> nice.
[02:10:51] <roycroft> if it makes noise i get a lot of money
[02:11:08] <jdh> if carry a work cellphone. I get paid the same either way.
[02:11:09] <roycroft> all that is good, except there are times when i'd rather not have it
[02:11:31] <roycroft> i have a work cell phone but i don't get paid for answering it after hours
[02:11:43] <roycroft> so i don't answer it after hours
[02:11:52] <roycroft> my house has radiant ceiling heat
[02:11:58] <roycroft> so there are heater coils in all the ceilings
[02:12:06] <roycroft> effectively my house is a big faraday cage
[02:12:13] <roycroft> so my cell phone doesn't work in my house
[02:12:21] <roycroft> oddly, my pager does
[02:12:58] <roycroft> i'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that i get paid to monitor one and don't get paid for the other
[02:13:29] <roycroft> the faraday cage must be tuned to the frequency of my cell phone
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[03:27:00] <Connor> I was going for mechanical switch -- already have a 25 amp SSR on the spindle..
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[03:37:39] <PetefromTn_> evening folks.
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[03:50:17] <XXCoder> yo
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[04:28:01] <ssi> hm
[04:28:12] <XXCoder> hey social. whats up
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[04:39:46] <ssi> wat
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[04:43:36] <XXCoder> oh dunno where you are but usa has this socal security insurance. short is ssi
[04:44:17] <MacGalempsy_> good evening everyone
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[04:46:35] <XXCoder> hey
[04:54:30] <MacGalempsy_> anything exciting going on?
[04:54:41] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:54:53] <XXCoder> someone found a way to 3d print tungsen
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[04:57:37] <MacGalempsy_> cool.
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[05:01:05] <XXCoder> heh
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[05:34:06] <MacGalempsy_> are you using linuxcnc on anything?
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[05:50:27] <ssi> https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/984216_10100483645393262_1410943183440310296_n.jpg?oh=18df7327800aac0f08a6db87563efcdb&oe=54CA6034
[05:50:30] <ssi> Mk. 2 Cushion
[05:50:34] <ssi> Now with 30% more Well Made!
[05:51:40] <ssi> for extra ridiculous factor, made with solidworks-designed, laser cut panels:
[05:51:40] <ssi> https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/15795_10100483581980342_8546598251302230005_n.jpg?oh=4a1209edfa34ef768969de3bb70f83a8&oe=54C795AD
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[06:22:39] <archivist> ssi, I hope you used the sheet metal bending allowances on that :)
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[06:38:04] <MacGalempsy_> ssi: nice work. no cnc sewing machine?
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[06:46:45] <Deejay> moin
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[07:51:46] <ssi> archivist: :)
[07:51:51] <ssi> MacGalempsy_: no, no cnc sewing machine
[07:52:07] <ssi> point of all of this is to get decent at upholstery so I can do my airplanes
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[10:21:42] <jdh> I could use new boat cushions if you are loooking for practice.
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[10:39:11] <Loetmichel> moin
[10:39:16] <Loetmichel> aehm
[10:39:18] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[10:52:05] <MacGalempsy_> hola
[10:55:36] <MacGalempsy_> buenos dias
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[12:33:52] <jdh> como esta
[12:34:30] <Jymmm> bueno
[12:35:32] <jdh> donde esta la aduana?
[12:35:44] <jdh> that wiped out my spanaish.
[12:36:45] <Jymmm> heh =)
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[12:39:51] <Jymmm> Oh, I was at the grocery store yesterday. They have a pharmacy that was closed for lunch. This lady from about a1/4 way the length of the store is going OH MY GAWD OH MY GAWD, are you kidding me?! Their closed? over and over, in a complete dramatic fashion (not one of urgency). Geeze people, it's not THAT big a deal, no need to eb so melodramatic.
[12:41:46] <Jymmm> I just feel sorry for the poor bastard that said "I do".
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[12:47:14] <jdh> you have new yorkers there too?
[12:47:52] <Jymmm> I suppose we do, we have a little of everything on the planet.
[12:48:19] <Jymmm> (would be surprised if we have off the planet too)
[12:48:27] <Jymmm> would NOT Be *
[12:48:46] <Jymmm> The fuckers would just blend in *shrug*
[12:54:20] <Jymmm> jdh: Do you ever use butane stoves?
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[13:00:05] <jdh> nope. got some cheapo propane ones.
[13:00:23] <jdh> only butane I ever see is absurdly pricey.
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[13:00:52] <Jymmm> Oh, I just ordered my 2nd set, love the thing.
[13:01:06] <jdh> for home cooking or your survival shelter?
[13:02:37] <Jymmm> Well, sorta both, but different. For home I use http://www.webstaurantstore.com/portable-gas-stove-butane-burner-with-1-range/472E10SL.html
[13:02:52] <Jymmm> They are great, easy to use and setup.
[13:03:24] <jdh> not as easy as my built-in range
[13:03:31] <Jymmm> For backpack/car I have this http://www.dx.com/p/ultra-mini-portable-outdoor-metal-gas-stove-with-a-case-2-ag3-52063
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[13:04:02] <Jymmm> and one of these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ARB8QRQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[13:04:14] <Jymmm> Well, I mean during power outages
[13:04:24] <Jymmm> I HAVE to have my coffee =)
[13:04:26] <jdh> my gas grill has a burner
[13:04:51] <Jymmm> I use charcoal grill
[13:05:05] <jdh> I used to. I prefer propane now.
[13:05:19] <Jymmm> Yeah, just not the same to me =)
[13:05:31] <jdh> me either, I dislike charcoal now.
[13:05:45] <gonzo_> we are back on caming stove porn again!
[13:05:51] <gonzo_> camping
[13:05:51] <jdh> looks that way.
[13:05:55] <Jymmm> But for $15 I have a burner and both use the same butane cans
[13:06:14] <jdh> I'd like a msr whisperlite, but not enough to pay for one.
[13:06:44] <gonzo_> for car/festival camping our crowd have all moved over vto those butane stoves
[13:07:12] <Jymmm> jdh: This is smaller than the MSR
[13:07:26] <jdh> but it doesn't burn anything/everything
[13:07:43] <gonzo_> but don't try and refil the carts with propane. Not only is it a pain in the arse, the stoves have a pressure safety cutout, that is tripped by the extra pressure of propane
[13:08:48] <Jymmm> jdh: I'm not carrying everything =)
[13:09:19] <Jymmm> gonzo_: I refill the disposable 1LB propane cans
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[13:10:27] <gonzo_> I have a multi fuel msr type burner modded for the trangia 27, but it only gets used with the shower heater at the mo. For cooking I prefer meths. As parafin/petrol just stinks everything in your kit
[13:10:50] <Jymmm> heh
[13:11:11] <gonzo_> I've refilled the lighter refill type butale ones with propane. Apart from the overpressure, it's really not worth it
[13:11:45] <Jymmm> I have a coleman duel fuel stove. It's the only petro one I have and the lantern too
[13:12:07] <Jymmm> I have no idea where to even get bulk butane frome.
[13:12:07] <gonzo_> snap on the stove
[13:12:11] <jdh> does anyone make a $40ish version of a multi-fuel whisperlite?
[13:12:25] <gonzo_> I think about the only stove I don't have is a firebox
[13:12:42] <Jymmm> jdh: http://www.dx.com/p/brs-8-multi-functional-oil-gas-stove-90761
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[13:13:14] <gonzo_> they do those multifuel ones on ebay, from china
[13:13:44] <gonzo_> Yep, I have one of those. I paud about £30 for mine.
[13:14:08] <jdh> I assume the MSR ones are made in china also, but I feel better about those.
[13:14:23] <gonzo_> the only weak point is the plastic valve on the bottle. Whhere you screw the gas cart attachment into the liquid bottle
[13:14:46] <gonzo_> the plastic can flex and you get fuel leaks
[13:15:08] <gonzo_> woth parafin that is just a mess. Petrol is dangerous
[13:15:56] <Jymmm> jdh: Read the reviews for it, they're pretty legit. No filtering like other places do.
[13:16:22] <gonzo_> there is a brass screw in insert, that seals to the plastic/grp ass with O rings. But you can easilly felx the grp passed where the seal works
[13:16:41] <jdh> dx? I have bought lots of stuff from there. But I don't expect any of it to last.
[13:16:50] <gonzo_> poss turning the grove in the brass deeper and using a fatter o ring may help
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[13:17:34] <gonzo_> the world's favourite seller of tat
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[13:18:13] <Jymmm> jdh: It really depends on what you get from them.
[13:19:44] <Jymmm> Hmmm, this might be interesting http://www.dx.com/p/multi-function-adjustable-auto-ignition-gas-butane-brazing-torch-white-grey-1500-c-160156
[13:20:53] <Jymmm> I jst bought 4x 8oz cans of butane for $4.50, so I'm happy. Saw one can go for $3.50 in the stores.
[13:21:27] <Jymmm> err... sporting goods store that is
[13:25:04] <gonzo_> I got accused of being a prepper, with all the stoves I have.
[13:25:42] <gonzo_> a whole wardrobe cupboard of them
[13:25:55] <gonzo_> (this was by someone with a wardrobe full of shoes)
[13:26:10] <Jymmm> Call her a Fiva =)
[13:26:14] <Jymmm> Diva
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[13:27:09] <Jymmm> or him, whatever is the case.
[13:27:43] <gonzo_> there was some compromise in her attitude, when one had to be exhumed to make coffee, as all the ironwork for the kitcken stove was in the dishwasher
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[13:28:29] <gonzo_> I'd like to think that none of the blokes I know have a wardrobe full of shoes. hiking boots, don't count!
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[13:29:02] <jdh> you dont' wear shoes?
[13:29:28] <Jymmm> jdh: Not a shoe closet at least
[13:29:42] <gonzo_> I think I own one pair of shoes. They get worn once a year with a suit. Otherwise i have boots
[13:30:07] <jdh> I dont' have a closet, I just have them laying around in the way everywhere.
[13:30:15] <Jymmm> lol
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[13:30:46] * jdh ponders wearing boots while boating, going to the beach, biking
[13:31:13] <gonzo_> oh, cloted lie around. Because the wardrobes ate full of campink kit, primers and bits of electronics
[13:31:20] <gonzo_> clothes
[13:32:35] <Jymmm> Oh, the other reaosn I started considering butane stoves is the gf doens't like the alcohol ones.
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[13:33:17] <Jymmm> and I wanted her comfortable with whatever she uses.
[13:33:46] <jdh> I see.
[13:34:19] <Jymmm> or she won't use it =)
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[13:35:48] <Jymmm> They're super easy to use. Made a cup of coffee while I was at the drive-in =)
[13:36:36] <jdh> drive-in?
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[13:36:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, we still have one here =)
[13:37:09] <Jymmm> Still have double-features, but no 5 inute cartoons at the beginning
[13:38:06] <Jymmm> It's great! I bring hot food and an ice-chest of beer, soda, etc
[13:40:15] <jdh> wifi?
[13:40:35] <Jymmm> Why would I want wifi while watching a movie?
[13:42:12] <jdh> short attention span.
[13:42:23] <Jymmm> Nah =)
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[13:45:50] <Jymmm> jdh: (I'm assuming there was a smartass joke in there that I just didn't get =)
[13:46:04] <Jymmm> aka 'kitchen sink'
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[13:46:47] <gonzo_> would never work in the UK
[13:47:01] <Jymmm> what wouldn't?
[13:47:05] <gonzo_> watching a film with the windscreen wipers going would not catch on
[13:47:12] <gonzo_> direv-in
[13:47:14] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[13:47:29] <Jymmm> Yeah, you poor bastrds and constant rain
[13:47:40] <Jymmm> or fog
[13:48:16] <gonzo_> I have seen that there are some companies that will set une up, out of the back of a wagon. but it's a novelty thing, for events/parties etc
[13:48:35] <Jymmm> tailgate party
[13:48:46] <gonzo_> not constant anything. Which is why it;s a constant tyopic of conersation
[13:49:14] <jdh> no smartass joke, oddly enough.
[13:49:23] <gonzo_> was just typing one!
[13:49:25] <Jymmm> ah =)
[13:50:28] <gonzo_> tailgating over here usually refers to someone driving really close behind. But it does havbe other meanings
[13:50:47] <PetefromTn_> morning chuckleheads..
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[13:52:31] <gonzo_> morning. I've been up for hours
[13:52:38] <jdh> pete: tell us about parts and flying metal instead of stoves and movies
[13:53:20] <PetefromTn_> well unfortunately I just finished the last parts I had to make LOL
[13:53:56] <jdh> time for teh invoice?
[13:56:19] <PetefromTn_> well they said they were going to cut a check sometime this week. They have my mailing information already.
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[14:19:11] <zeeshan|2> man
[14:19:14] <zeeshan|2> now im double minded
[14:19:18] <zeeshan|2> someone wants to buy the mill
[14:22:20] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/cnc-vertical-mill/1006434248
[14:22:24] <zeeshan|2> this seems overpriced
[14:25:54] <jdh> you can have two
[14:26:16] <zeeshan|2> no
[14:26:23] <zeeshan|2> i dont have space man
[14:26:31] <zeeshan|2> this is always going to be a side hobby
[14:26:35] <CaptHindsight> how often do deals on machines show up there?
[14:26:38] <zeeshan|2> i dont have intentions to ever make it a business
[14:26:44] <zeeshan|2> CaptHindsight: not often at all
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[14:27:19] <zeeshan|2> the other option is this machine
[14:27:25] <zeeshan|2> that's been stored outside it seems under a tarp:
[14:27:32] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/ottawa/cnc-mill/1017830477?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[14:27:41] <zeeshan|2> i can probably bring him down to 1500
[14:28:04] <zeeshan|2> only has 15.8" travel on x and y though
[14:28:05] <zeeshan|2> and z
[14:28:10] <zeeshan|2> its pretty much a square work space
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[14:28:55] <archivist> is he spelling that makers name right ?, no the close up means that is teh bestest swiss iron
[14:29:14] <zeeshan|2> proman ad?
[14:29:16] <zeeshan|2> or mikron
[14:29:29] <archivist> mikron
[14:29:39] <archivist> nice stuff
[14:29:50] <zeeshan|2> yes but its work capacity
[14:29:51] <zeeshan|2> is tiny
[14:31:00] <archivist> but at least is is heavy enough for that little area unlike all the others
[14:31:25] <zeeshan|2> yea its 5000lb
[14:31:27] <zeeshan|2> it seems like
[14:32:00] <zeeshan|2> http://www.maschinensucher.de/ma2/bilder/MIKRON-WF21C/1851330-2.jpg
[14:32:02] <zeeshan|2> better image of another one
[14:32:23] <zeeshan|2> they say 2.6 metric ton
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[14:33:18] <zeeshan|2> i want at least 30" travel in the X
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[14:35:02] <CaptHindsight> a machine that size will be 5 tons
[14:35:36] <archivist> except the light weight junk :)
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[14:37:24] <CaptHindsight> as far as what you should buy reminds me of a poster a CEO had in his office...
[14:37:57] <zeeshan|2> lol
[14:38:06] <zeeshan|2> mosty of the parts i make
[14:38:09] <zeeshan|2> are around 20" wide
[14:38:15] <CaptHindsight> it was a picture of a really old guy in raggedy clothes with the words....
[14:38:58] <CaptHindsight> "I spent all my money on women and booze, the rest I just wasted"
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[14:45:38] <SpeedEvil> If you spend all your money on women and booze - there is nothing left.
[14:45:47] <zeeshan|2> my woman doesnt require any money
[14:45:52] <zeeshan|2> and no she's not my left hand
[14:45:55] <zeeshan|2> it's actually a woman!
[14:45:57] <zeeshan|2> shes awesome :)
[14:47:14] <roycroft> any thoughts on whether this might be interesting?
[14:47:16] <roycroft> http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/tls/4680402132.html
[14:48:38] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: as long as it's not rusted
[14:48:51] <CaptHindsight> they made nice lathes
[14:49:00] <archivist> bit over priced for out in the rain, but clausing is a good name
[14:49:08] <roycroft> yes, i know clausings were good lathes
[14:49:17] <roycroft> i'm concerned about one that's not in service though
[14:49:32] <roycroft> especially since it's been sitting outside
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[14:49:56] <archivist> depends on your restorations skills
[14:50:19] <roycroft> or how much time i have
[14:50:27] <roycroft> i don't have good restoration skills
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[14:50:48] <CaptHindsight> why do people wait until it's been stored outside for too long before selling it?
[14:50:52] <roycroft> but if it's straight and not rusted, given enough time i should be able to get it back in good shape
[14:51:03] <roycroft> i need a bigger lathe
[14:51:15] <roycroft> and my choices are to get a new chinese one like grizzly/enco
[14:51:22] <roycroft> or a used, old american one
[14:51:34] <roycroft> i'd prefer the latter if i can find something good
[14:51:54] <archivist> my old lathe is well worn, still works though
[14:52:02] <roycroft> so i scour cl for hardinge/south bend/clausing
[14:52:14] <roycroft> sb are pretty much all overpriced
[14:52:17] <roycroft> people know the name
[14:52:22] <roycroft> so they double the price
[14:53:21] <roycroft> around here, the only metal lathes i ever see for <$1 are those harbor freight mini lathes
[14:53:28] <archivist> I think my southbend carriage is 10 thou low near the chuck, just have to adjust on long parts
[14:53:31] <roycroft> the clausing for $750 seemd like a good price
[14:53:54] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: lots of deals in CA on ebay
[14:53:56] <roycroft> there are probably better deals back east
[14:54:09] <roycroft> since so much manufacturing was done there
[14:54:14] <CaptHindsight> tends to be southern CA
[14:54:22] <roycroft> i'm 10 hours from san francisco
[14:54:47] <roycroft> and i have some serious mountain passes to go over to get there
[14:54:54] <roycroft> which i don't mind when empty
[14:55:05] <roycroft> but with a lathe in my pickup bed that's not fun
[14:55:13] <roycroft> my pickup is a 1/2 ton toyota
[14:55:21] <roycroft> so i can't really haul a big lathe with it anyway
[14:55:24] <roycroft> not over the mountains
[14:55:31] <roycroft> i'll haul a ton with it in town
[14:55:47] <roycroft> but i don't want to push it going over a 5500' pass
[14:56:07] <jdh> trailer
[14:56:56] <roycroft> still not fun in the mountains
[14:57:02] <roycroft> now seattle is a different story
[14:57:11] <roycroft> it's a long-ish drive, but no mountains
[14:57:26] <CaptHindsight> reminds me of a poster I saw....
[14:57:50] <roycroft> so if i find a lathe that's straight, how much surface rust before it's a major project to restore?
[14:57:59] <roycroft> i'm thinking almost none
[15:00:40] <zeeshan|2> roy
[15:00:44] <zeeshan|2> pitting is okay
[15:00:54] <zeeshan|2> you're just losing bearing surface t hats all
[15:01:03] <zeeshan|2> so basically when the whole surface is severely pitting
[15:01:06] <zeeshan|2> that surface is nfg
[15:01:14] <zeeshan|2> and you need to scrape/grind it back to shape
[15:01:20] <zeeshan|2> shape = flatness
[15:01:28] <zeeshan|2> while makjing it parallel with the other side of the lathe too
[15:01:49] <archivist> cast does not pit like steel so survives a lot better
[15:02:15] <roycroft> so minor pitting is fine
[15:02:29] <CaptHindsight> pitting vs scraping surface variance
[15:02:32] <roycroft> but it's totally pitted then it might need major work
[15:03:15] <zeeshan|2> some pitting is good!
[15:03:20] <zeeshan|2> it acts like oil traps :D
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[15:06:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.metalscraping.com/w2-Preview.html lots of close up pics
[15:07:00] <roycroft> i haven't seen that site
[15:07:28] <roycroft> i have a bunch of scraping documents from some other scraping site, and i bought a reprint of a '50s scraping book
[15:07:36] <roycroft> and i've made some scrapers
[15:07:48] <roycroft> but i haven't spent much time doing any sraping to date
[15:09:13] <roycroft> my preference is a machine that doesn't need a whole lot of work to get it going
[15:10:27] <roycroft> i might investigate that clausing though
[15:10:53] <roycroft> hood river is a long drive, but if the lathe is complete and in not too bad shape, that's a good price for around here
[15:11:24] <roycroft> complete disassembly, cleaning, repainting, and minor tweaking is fine
[15:11:41] <roycroft> truing and scraping the ways probably a bit out of my league right now
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[15:13:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-x-18-METALWORKING-ENGINE-LATHE-PRICE-REDUCED-/301291702656
[15:13:59] <zeeshan|2> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/city-of-toronto/cnc-vertical-mill/1006434248?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[15:14:07] <zeeshan|2> ive been haggling this person
[15:14:12] <zeeshan|2> they've gone down to $3000
[15:14:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Mazak-SL15-lathe-/221555902679 1982 Mazak
[15:14:16] <zeeshan|2> i think im going to buy this babyt
[15:14:27] <zeeshan|2> i can sell that fagor control too
[15:15:19] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MONARCH-16-X-54-S-N-48728-LATHE-/380991731948
[15:15:21] <roycroft> that looks like quite the project, capthindsight
[15:15:27] <roycroft> just getting it loaded and moved
[15:15:37] <roycroft> the thing must weigh 5 tons
[15:15:57] <roycroft> oh wow
[15:16:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Lathe-Tool-Co-Lathe-/221551775945
[15:16:06] <roycroft> sutherlin is only an hour from here
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[15:16:21] <roycroft> that's a lot more lathe than i need or have room for though
[15:16:49] <jdh> make room
[15:17:11] <roycroft> shasta lake is over the mountains
[15:17:22] <zeeshan|2> man
[15:17:26] <zeeshan|2> i cant find any information
[15:17:28] <zeeshan|2> on this proman mill
[15:17:35] <zeeshan|2> online
[15:17:55] <zeeshan|2> it honestly loooks like a bridgeport series 2
[15:18:23] <zeeshan|2> http://media.exapro.com/product/2013/02/P30219092/c1ad6a8cde5b2014de8f8e5d0c5ac971/bridgeport-series-ii-mdi-cnc-milling-machine-p30219092_2.JPG
[15:18:25] <zeeshan|2> kinda like that
[15:18:36] <zeeshan|2> actually nm its different
[15:18:43] <zeeshan|2> the head looks way more sturdier on the proman
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[15:18:45] <zeeshan|2> HELp me!!
[15:22:23] <CaptHindsight> yes, close
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[15:22:37] <zeeshan|2> not sure what it is
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[15:25:55] <CaptHindsight> it's like it never existed or as though someone has erased them from History
[15:25:59] <zeeshan|2> haha
[15:26:04] <zeeshan|2> i feel like "proman" is a cnc controller
[15:26:08] <zeeshan|2> people added to a machine
[15:26:09] <zeeshan|2> or something
[15:27:19] <CaptHindsight> it could be a Chinese import
[15:28:09] <CaptHindsight> the more I look at it the more it reminds me of them
[15:28:31] <zeeshan|2> that is true could be chinese
[15:28:33] <zeeshan|2> and called something else
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[15:29:28] <CaptHindsight> Funuc, Riverport, etc
[15:29:59] <CaptHindsight> sounds familiar but it's not what you think
[15:30:18] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-engine-lathe-42-/301100542552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461afdaa58
[15:30:21] <roycroft> now that's a lathe
[15:30:29] <roycroft> 42x30'
[15:30:31] <zeeshan|2> LOL
[15:30:33] <zeeshan|2> nice
[15:30:41] <roycroft> and it's just over on the coast
[15:32:08] <zeeshan|2> friggin monster
[15:32:33] <zeeshan|2> Would also consider trade for a lathe with a larger swing and shorter bed.
[15:32:34] <zeeshan|2> lol
[15:32:44] <Rab> Make a knurled flagpole for your front yard.
[15:32:57] <zeeshan|2> haha
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[15:33:17] <archivist> go fetch boy
[15:33:40] <archivist> it is fun collecting big lathes :)
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[15:34:49] <roycroft> yeah, i'll haul that thing over the coast range with my 1/2 ton toyota pickup
[15:35:00] <archivist> we fetched this 26ft one for the museum http://www.claymills.org.uk/tour/p1010345.jpg
[15:35:57] <roycroft> that monarch really is kind of interesting, but i know i can't make room for it :(
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[15:37:22] <jdh> rent a uhaul
[15:42:14] <ssi> pete
[15:42:22] <PetefromTn_> yeah
[15:42:55] <ssi> still on for tomorrow? I'll call the guy and set it up
[15:43:58] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I am good here....
[15:44:11] <ssi> cool
[15:45:34] <Connor> ssi: PetefromTn_ What are you two up to? :)
[15:46:12] <PetefromTn_> meh nothing really just going to look at a machine.
[15:46:26] <Connor> Eh? Really.. which one ?
[15:46:37] <PetefromTn_> its a VMC for SSI.
[15:46:43] <Connor> Ahh.
[15:47:14] <PetefromTn_> I guess after seeing mine in action he got that big hook in the side of his mouth LOL
[15:48:35] <roycroft> this one is actually rather interesting, other than the over the mountains problem:
[15:48:39] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Lathe-16-x30-15HP-/291236737476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cf0ff1c4http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Lathe-16-x30-15HP-/291236737476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cf0ff1c4
[15:48:48] <roycroft> ack, sorry
[15:48:48] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I need to go get that. http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4672853594.html
[15:48:50] <roycroft> http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Lathe-16-x30-15HP-/291236737476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43cf0ff1c4
[15:49:12] <PetefromTn_> where are you gonna put it?
[15:49:19] <Connor> PetefromTn_: Cheaper, but no coolant, and I could pick up the harbor freight version for cheaper. http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/4652860523.html
[15:49:20] <PetefromTn_> but yeah you do LOL
[15:49:31] <Connor> PetefromTn_: That *IS* the question.. isn't it? :)
[15:49:36] <PetefromTn_> I was gonna say that is kinda pricey for a used one.
[15:49:39] <jdh> Connor: you want some of these DIN terminal block screw-on-thingies?
[15:49:54] <PetefromTn_> both of them are overpriced I think.
[15:49:58] <Connor> jdh The ones you sent last night?
[15:50:01] <jdh> yeah
[15:50:06] <roycroft> i have a chinese knock-off 7x12 band saw
[15:50:17] <roycroft> way better than the 4x6 i used to have
[15:50:20] <jdh> I have a chinese 4x6
[15:50:20] <Connor> I don't think those will work with mine.. Because they have walls between them..
[15:50:23] <PetefromTn_> I paid like $350.00 for mine.
[15:50:32] <Connor> Let me grab some and look again.
[15:50:38] <jdh> connor: then what does work with them?
[15:53:06] <Connor> okay.. looking at them again.
[15:53:12] <Connor> can you throw that picture up again ?
[15:53:45] <jdh> maybe
[15:54:07] <jdh> 121332234660
[15:54:14] <jdh> I have some of those also (ebay item)
[15:54:26] <jdh> https://docs.google.com/a/hudsons.org/file/d/0Bz5kbenmrw4VdXFPUTVqQ0NFRm8/edit
[15:55:09] <Connor> It's going to depend on how tall the stand off is...
[15:55:57] <jdh> and threads.
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[15:56:27] <jdh> Wieland is about 10miles up I40 from here.
[15:57:56] <zeeshan|2> roycroft: with hydraulic feed?
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[16:00:52] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wieland-WK-6-U-Terminal-Block-600-Volt-45-Amp-W-2-Pole-Jumper-/350431267580?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519754cafc
[16:01:11] <Connor> That has a picture of a dual jumper on it.
[16:01:32] <Connor> http://www.ebay.com/itm/01M9531-Wieland-Electric-Z7-282-0027-0-Terminal-Block-Jumper-Bar-40Way-8Mm-/251560845670?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9231e166
[16:01:37] <Connor> That them..
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[16:31:56] <CaptHindsight> Dong Yong Lathe, it's really the name, not kidding http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dong-Yong-Lathe-/121419904349
[16:33:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warner-Swasey-M-1200-3-Turret-Lathe-/141412415968 this one looks restored well
[16:34:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-Sheldon-Lathe-BEAUTIFUL-Many-Accessories-WORKS-GREAT-Vintage-Antique-1930s-/321506016386
[16:34:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-10-Precision-Lathe-Cat-No-CL187-RB-/161422153591
[16:37:05] <roycroft> i'd love to get an old sheldon
[16:37:11] <roycroft> i have a sheldon horizontal mill
[16:38:42] <archivist> where for art thou barber colman S type manual, I seed the name of the collet so I can find some
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[16:39:28] <archivist> one 1/16" collet that came with the machine is just not helpful
[16:40:49] <ssi> lol
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[16:44:10] <archivist> I have the machine working...just... the small stub on the end of the blank cannot hold it very well
[16:45:22] <roycroft> that sheldon is almost worth the drive to socal
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[16:47:08] <ssi> I'm out my damn mind
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[16:50:16] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: Probably not for me. But it's nice!
[16:50:42] <roycroft> the south bend is nice too, but only comes with the collet holder
[16:50:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/hitachi-seiki-CNC-milling-machining-center-/121437492370
[16:50:57] <roycroft> a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw would add a lot of cost to that
[16:51:16] <ssi> roycroft: that's the problem with my hardinge
[16:51:20] * SpeedEvil ponders 1-jaw chucks.
[16:51:21] <ssi> I don't have chucks for it
[16:51:53] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks_: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATSUURA-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/301324118810
[16:52:16] <roycroft> if i were buying a new chinese lathe, this is what i'd be looking at:
[16:52:18] <roycroft> http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Gunsmith-s-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G
[16:52:24] <roycroft> i don't need a really big lathe
[16:52:31] <ssi> those are pretty good lathes
[16:52:36] <roycroft> 12x36 would be perfect
[16:52:57] <roycroft> bellingham is 6 hours from here
[16:53:01] <PetefromTn_> LOL thats basically what my lathe is ...
[16:53:05] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VECTRAX-3-AXIS-CNC-VERTICAL-MILL-/291246449771
[16:53:11] <roycroft> and i used to live there, so i'd probably go up and pick it up, and visit old friends while i'm there
[16:53:16] <ssi> PetefromTn_: that gunsmith lathe has a huge bore tho
[16:53:20] <ssi> there's some differences
[16:53:25] <PetefromTn_> yeah I am familiar with it.
[16:53:37] <skunkworks_> CaptHindsight, got ours for half that...
[16:53:44] <roycroft> if you buy the not gunsmith version of that lathe, it doesn't come with a stand
[16:53:46] <ssi> oh wait maybe not that one
[16:53:49] <ssi> that one says 40mm bore
[16:53:54] <PetefromTn_> actually it says 40 mm
[16:53:54] <ssi> they have one that has like a 3" bore
[16:53:54] <roycroft> add the stand to it and it's the same price as the gunsmith lathe
[16:54:03] <PetefromTn_> mine is like 1.375 or something.
[16:54:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-and-Sharpe-No-3B-Standard-Vertical-Milling-Machine-/141219106341
[16:54:09] <ssi> PetefromTn_: what's the nose on your lathe's spindle?
[16:54:26] <ssi> is it camlock like that grizzly? or what
[16:54:47] <roycroft> the grizzly is d1-5 i think
[16:54:48] <PetefromTn_> I think it is like MT5
[16:54:57] <roycroft> yeah
[16:55:04] <CaptHindsight> a few J head Bridgeports for Under $900
[16:55:07] <PetefromTn_> mine is a D1-4 camlock with MT5 bore
[16:55:10] <ssi> PetefromTn_: gotcha
[16:55:29] <roycroft> i'm stashing away money for a lathe
[16:55:42] <roycroft> and i'll keep looking for a nice used american one
[16:55:44] <PetefromTn_> it might actually be D1-5 come to think of it.
[16:55:51] <ssi> PetefromTn_: it's probably exactly the same as that griz
[16:55:59] <PetefromTn_> It sure looks the same.
[16:56:01] <ssi> yea
[16:56:13] <ssi> honestly, I like your lathe a lot
[16:56:14] <roycroft> but if i have $3400 in my pocket and haven't found one yet i'll probably drive up to bellingham and pick up that grizzly
[16:56:28] <ssi> lets see how much money I have next month after this VMC fiasco
[16:56:34] <ssi> maybe I'll snag it from ya
[16:56:44] <PetefromTn_> sure...
[16:56:55] <roycroft> i still have the rest of the cnc router to buy/build
[16:57:00] <roycroft> ball screws are just the start
[16:57:06] <PetefromTn_> By then this nice Turning center will probably be gone tho LOL... and then I will change my mind about selling it ;)
[16:57:09] <roycroft> and i have some brewing gear to buy
[16:57:13] <ssi> bahhh
[16:57:17] * roycroft needs to plant a money tree in his back yard
[16:57:28] <PetefromTn_> send me a sprig man...
[16:57:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: if I can pay you in gold like dan paid me... :)
[16:57:58] <PetefromTn_> hey man as long as I can cash it out quick I could give a rats ass what you pay me with LOL...
[16:58:01] <ssi> hehehe
[16:58:28] <roycroft> i haven't figured out how i'd install a lathe that size yet
[16:58:45] <roycroft> it needs to live in my garage, which has a low garage door and fairly low ceiling
[16:58:50] <archivist> !seen WillenCMD
[16:58:51] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-01-26 21:12:44GMT 838:59:59 ago, saying joined chan
[16:58:58] <ssi> roycroft: isn't that always the problem :)
[16:59:08] <roycroft> yes
[16:59:24] <roycroft> i can unload it from my pickup with a cherry picker
[16:59:34] <roycroft> but lifting it up on the stand would be a challenge
[17:00:06] <ssi> use the same crane to get it on the stand
[17:00:09] <PetefromTn_> Looking at that Griz lathe the only real differenc I can see is it comes with bearing loaded steady and follow rests instead of the brass tipped ones on my machine. Other than that it is basically the same lathe in a different color.
[17:00:10] <ssi> with a load leveler
[17:00:34] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I made a bearing steady for my little griz lathe
[17:00:37] <PetefromTn_> I have moved my 12x36 lathe about a half dozen times with an engine crane.
[17:00:40] <roycroft> i don't think i could reach the stand with it
[17:00:54] <roycroft> the legs of the cherry picker would get in the way
[17:01:01] <roycroft> although that does only weigh 1000 lbs
[17:01:08] <roycroft> i could extend the cran fully
[17:01:11] <ssi> you have steel beams in your garage?
[17:01:14] <roycroft> no
[17:01:15] <PetefromTn_> I turned the stand a bit and loaded the lathe and then carefully pushed it around..
[17:01:31] <PetefromTn_> it really is not that heavy
[17:01:34] <roycroft> i have a length of i-beam in my yard, and there's a trolly on a beam in my welding shop
[17:01:40] <PetefromTn_> it could stand to be a bit heavier really.
[17:01:44] <roycroft> i could temporarily rig that up if necessary
[17:01:56] <ssi> yeah I don't get heartburn over stuff like that anymore
[17:01:59] <roycroft> trolly and chain hoist
[17:02:12] <roycroft> a 1000 lb lathe i'm not too worried about
[17:02:14] <ssi> this whole 5 ton VMC nonsense really puts it in perspective :)
[17:02:16] <roycroft> i know i could figoure out a way
[17:02:31] <roycroft> a 2 ton lathe would be a different matter
[17:02:39] <ssi> my hardinge is 2 hons
[17:02:40] <ssi> tons
[17:02:47] <ssi> it's the reason I bought the forklift :P
[17:02:54] <ssi> I got it home on a trailer and had no reasonable way to get it off
[17:03:08] <roycroft> and i doubt i could even fit a forklift in my garage
[17:03:11] <roycroft> i've thought about that
[17:03:16] <ssi> you can with the right forklift :)
[17:03:22] <roycroft> used forklifts are cheap
[17:03:30] <ssi> I specifically bought a trucker mast lift for that reason
[17:03:34] <ssi> it's 83" tall
[17:03:38] <ssi> BARELY fits under the door, but it fits
[17:03:50] <ssi> it's only single stage, so I can't lift high, but I rarely need to
[17:03:56] <roycroft> i don't think it would fit under my garage door
[17:04:01] <roycroft> possibly
[17:04:06] <ssi> they're usually 84"
[17:04:40] <roycroft> that's an appealing thing about a sheldon or a benchtop south bend
[17:04:46] <roycroft> much easier to manipulate
[17:04:56] <roycroft> the drawback being lack of mass, of course
[17:05:16] <ssi> yep
[17:05:36] <ssi> my hnc is a heavy lathe for what it is
[17:05:39] <ssi> it's only an 8x20 lathe
[17:05:49] <roycroft> the grizzly is probably the perfect set of compromises all around for me
[17:06:12] <roycroft> if i'm going to get a chinese one i'll probably just buy a new one
[17:06:25] <ssi> i thought about doing that too
[17:06:31] <ssi> but I think I'm just gonna buy pete's pre-loved lathe
[17:06:40] <roycroft> i'm still going to check out that clausing in hood river though
[17:06:45] <ssi> what model?
[17:06:49] <roycroft> for $750, if it's in decent shape, i can buy it right now
[17:06:52] <roycroft> i don't know
[17:06:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Lathe-16-x30-15HP-/291236737476 Sonora, California $2700
[17:06:56] <ssi> got a link?
[17:06:56] <roycroft> i can't tell from the pictures
[17:07:21] <PetefromTn_> hell I moved an 16x80 lathe that probably weighted three tons with nothing but an engine crane, a trailer, and a bunch of small diameter iron pipes...
[17:07:23] <roycroft> http://portland.craigslist.org/grg/tls/4680402132.html
[17:07:31] <roycroft> it's a little bigger than i want, but i could make it work i think
[17:07:45] <roycroft> maybe it's not bigger though
[17:07:48] <roycroft> maybe it's 4' long
[17:07:50] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EMCO-Maximat-V10-Lathe-with-Milling-Head-/291246580634 $2,700 Windsor, California
[17:07:53] <roycroft> and really 36" center to center
[17:07:54] <ssi> if it's not worn out, it'd be nice
[17:08:08] <ssi> I loved my clausing, but the ways were realbad worn out :(
[17:08:20] <roycroft> if it's in decent shape, and if it has both a 3 jaw and a 4 jaw
[17:08:25] <roycroft> and all the change gears
[17:08:54] <roycroft> it looks like it has a gearbox, so it probably doesn't have many change gears
[17:09:01] <ssi> it probably doesn't have ANY
[17:09:03] <ssi> mine didn't
[17:09:08] <ssi> all the gears were on sliders
[17:09:23] <ssi> although mine had no provision for metric pitches
[17:09:31] <roycroft> not even to switch from imperial to metric threads?
[17:09:32] <roycroft> aah
[17:10:03] <roycroft> i have a 7x14 mini lathe right now
[17:10:14] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I made a second cushion, came out much better than the first
[17:10:20] <roycroft> i don't cut metric threads that often, and when i do it's always on a small piece
[17:10:23] <ssi> PetefromTn_: https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/984216_10100483645393262_1410943183440310296_n.jpg?oh=18df7327800aac0f08a6db87563efcdb&oe=54CA6034
[17:10:32] <roycroft> so if the clausing can't cut metric threads, i could always do that on the mini-lathe
[17:10:40] <ssi> I cut the panels on the laser
[17:10:40] <ssi> https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/15795_10100483581980342_8546598251302230005_n.jpg?oh=4a1209edfa34ef768969de3bb70f83a8&oe=54C795AD
[17:10:41] <PetefromTn_> nice man..
[17:10:43] <ssi> ahahaha
[17:11:02] <ssi> SCISSORS? WE DON NEED NO STEENKIN SCISSORS
[17:11:11] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: have you considered relocating to CA, there are more machine deals there :)
[17:11:15] <PetefromTn_> did you laser cut that shite...?
[17:11:18] <ssi> yesss
[17:11:26] <PetefromTn_> you are my hero man..
[17:11:28] <ssi> heheh
[17:11:53] <roycroft> i would never move to cali
[17:11:59] <roycroft> it's full of californians for one thing
[17:12:06] <roycroft> and it's full of california laws as well
[17:12:14] <PetefromTn_> better not let my wife hear you say that... heh
[17:12:17] <roycroft> :)
[17:12:27] <ssi> is she from california?
[17:12:34] <PetefromTn_> sacto
[17:12:37] <ssi> gotcha
[17:12:42] <roycroft> hood river is only 3 hours from here
[17:13:03] <roycroft> and a pleasant drive, for the most part
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[17:13:46] <PetefromTn_> honestly if I was gonna buy a NEW chinko lathe in this size range I would look seriously at their belt drive 12x36 if they still have it.
[17:13:47] <CaptHindsight> ssi: have you cut any poly woven material yet?
[17:14:59] <PetefromTn_> so basically as I understand it SSI has built this laser cutter CNC for the sole purpose to be able to upholster his airplane interior without having to pay 9k for a pro to do it for him LOL
[17:15:24] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/vertical-machining-center-CNC-CONTROL-price-reduce/251651099279 "will deliver up to 1800 miles"
[17:16:13] <PetefromTn_> I like how it says "NEVER CRASHED"
[17:16:28] <PetefromTn_> always cut aluminum.
[17:16:30] <CaptHindsight> “just machine aluminum” (only on Sundays)
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[17:16:44] <CaptHindsight> heh
[17:16:54] <PetefromTn_> looks like a nice machine tho.
[17:17:01] <roycroft> will deliver up to 1800 miles for $1900
[17:18:17] <cpresser_> roycroft: are you from Oregon?
[17:18:33] * cpresser_ somehow remembers the name hood river from his vacation there
[17:19:06] <roycroft> yes
[17:19:10] <roycroft> i'm in eugene
[17:19:33] <roycroft> hood river is in the columbia gorge, about 45 minutes east of portland
[17:20:44] <cpresser_> portland was nice, but way to much hipsters living there^^
[17:21:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turret-Acme-Lathe-/321531740766 midwest
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[17:22:49] <cpresser_> lol. i wasnt aware that ACME is a real company. i only know the name from cartoons :)
[17:22:54] <roycroft> lots of good breweries in pdx though
[17:23:13] <roycroft> but yes, hipsterdom can be annoying
[17:23:39] <roycroft> a self-defeating movement
[17:23:55] <roycroft> they're pretentiously unpretentious
[17:24:07] <roycroft> but whatever unpretentious thing they latch on to becomes pretentious
[17:24:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-HYDROSHIFT-LATHE-19-X-54-/321528594577 $2K, Ohio
[17:25:01] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/GISHOLT-5-UNIVERSAL-TURRET-LATHE-/261583297193 one I've never heard of
[17:25:31] <CaptHindsight> made in Madison, WI
[17:26:13] <ssi> CaptHindsight: no
[17:26:21] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I have some sunbrella, which is woven acrylic
[17:26:26] <ssi> I imagine it'll cut beautifully
[17:26:36] <ssi> which is good, because if you scissor cut it, it unravels
[17:26:40] <ssi> pros use hotknife to cut it
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[17:28:32] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan|2: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mori-Seiki-SL-1-/231335931396 Niagra Falls
[17:29:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/leblonde-regal-lathe-with-tooling-/261597410912 asking $2400 or trade for a zero turn mower
[17:29:34] <ssi> CaptHindsight: there's a very good chance I'm buying a cincinnati sabre 500 tomorrow
[17:31:00] <PetefromTn_> you da man...
[17:31:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-MILACRON-SABRE-500-VMC-X-20-Y-20-Z-20-850SX-CONTROL-CAT40-21-ATC-/121422578426 Louisville, Kentucky
[17:31:42] <ssi> that's the one
[17:31:46] <CaptHindsight> nice
[17:32:02] <ssi> pete and I are going to look at it in the morning
[17:32:14] <ssi> I've talked to the guy on the phone, he's got a freight quote for me
[17:32:41] <CaptHindsight> ~6 hour drive for you?
[17:32:55] <ssi> yea 6 or 7
[17:33:02] <ssi> 3 to pete's, four up to lville
[17:33:24] <PetefromTn_> yeah and we will be listening to MY music on the way LOL
[17:33:34] <ssi> whatever you want man :)
[17:33:48] <PetefromTn_> jk
[17:33:55] <ssi> ALL HALL AND OATS, ALL THE TIME
[17:34:03] <ssi> PUH- PUH- PUH- PUH- PETE RADIO
[17:34:42] <PetefromTn_> naah no hall and oates.. Maybe some Yanni LOL...
[17:35:17] <CaptHindsight> I don't mind driving 20+ but not with the wrong music on
[17:35:28] <CaptHindsight> 20+ hours
[17:35:29] <ssi> when I drive alone I usually listen to podcasts
[17:35:42] <ssi> I drove 8000 miles in two weeks back in may
[17:36:37] <PetefromTn_> yeah that 6 billion miles to the gallon VW will come in handy here LOL
[17:39:50] <CaptHindsight> PCW on vacation or just avoiding us?
[17:40:13] <ssi> PetefromTn_: yea we can easily make it to lville and back to maryville without stopping if we fill up in maryville
[17:40:20] <ssi> which we should, cause yall got some cheap fuel
[17:40:34] <ssi> I stopped in collegedale on the way home, still had 5/8 tank, but it was 3.37 ffs
[17:40:49] <PetefromTn_> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/bfs/4676756456.html
[17:41:01] <Connor> ssi, how many of those relay modules did you give me?
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[17:41:15] <ssi> two
[17:41:20] <Connor> okay..
[17:41:30] <Connor> I'll have to look.. I only found one..
[17:41:37] <Connor> I think stuff got moved around or something
[17:42:38] <Connor> PetefromTn_: No tool changer on that one.. :(
[17:43:03] <ssi> Connor: they're probably not what you want anyway
[17:43:13] <ssi> they're 5v coil, and active low
[17:43:15] <Connor> yea.. I just hate loosing stuff.
[17:43:21] <ssi> I made them work on the laser, but I had to work around it
[17:43:26] <Connor> Can't find my pin wrench either.
[17:43:43] <ssi> :/
[17:44:30] <ssi> am I out of my mind for buying this vmc?
[17:44:54] <Connor> I dunno. Link to it again ?
[17:45:00] <PetefromTn_> why?
[17:45:02] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121422578426
[17:45:17] <ssi> I just hope it works out
[17:45:36] <PetefromTn_> you'll know when you get there and see it.
[17:45:43] <ssi> yeah
[17:45:46] <Connor> Is it bigger than yours pete ?
[17:45:49] <ssi> it's the same size
[17:45:51] <PetefromTn_> no
[17:45:51] <Connor> looks a tad older
[17:45:53] <ssi> it's older
[17:45:59] <ssi> and slower
[17:46:07] <ssi> which should make zeeshan happy
[17:46:07] <ssi> lololol
[17:46:16] <Connor> ssi: Shouldn't be when your done.
[17:46:29] <ssi> PetefromTn_: you know what sucks?
[17:46:35] <ssi> it looks like there's no mpg on it
[17:46:58] <Connor> just keypad one looks like
[17:47:03] <ssi> I really want an mpg
[17:47:03] <Connor> and the CRT is dead.
[17:47:06] <ssi> yeah
[17:47:12] <ssi> I guess I'll have to buy one
[17:47:14] <Connor> Your converting to mesa right ?
[17:47:15] <PetefromTn_> yeah but once you retro it a portable MPG is a cheap option you are probably gonna want.
[17:47:17] <ssi> yeah
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[17:47:20] <Connor> You can buy them
[17:47:30] <PetefromTn_> they are cheap
[17:47:34] <Connor> $60.00
[17:47:45] <ssi> you think I'll be able to use the existing servos and drives?
[17:47:59] <Connor> I would sell'm and get all new
[17:48:06] <PetefromTn_> dunno I didn't
[17:48:11] <Connor> They use resolvers.
[17:48:14] <PetefromTn_> but not because I couldn't
[17:48:17] <ssi> resolvers don't scare me
[17:48:32] <ssi> they're actually really nice once you get them working
[17:48:54] <Connor> You'll have to decode how the drivers work..
[17:49:04] <ssi> what do you mean?
[17:49:07] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You had issues with the Drivers and the PSU
[17:49:34] <Connor> No clue how those Servo drives work.
[17:49:39] <PetefromTn_> when I bought it the Z axis drive was blown.
[17:49:44] <PetefromTn_> I had it repaired,
[17:49:56] <PetefromTn_> then the Y axis blew after a month or so.
[17:50:14] <PetefromTn_> Then the power supply blew out. had it repaired and it blew again.
[17:50:18] <PetefromTn_> said fuck it
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[17:50:25] <PetefromTn_> gutted her like a pig.
[17:50:33] <ssi> I wonder what's in it
[17:50:35] <PetefromTn_> sold all of the old componentrly
[17:50:46] <PetefromTn_> and paid for the new axis drives with the money.
[17:50:52] <PetefromTn_> and the new spindle drive.
[17:51:18] <ssi> hm well maybe that's the way to go
[17:51:26] <ssi> I guess people will pay big money for working drives and motors
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[17:54:38] <Connor> ssi: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=163
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[17:56:41] <ssi> not bad
[17:56:58] <Connor> I have the same one. It's not bad.
[17:57:17] <Connor> I made a pendant using a ATMega 328 custom board..
[17:57:27] <Connor> worked serial with LinuxCNC..
[17:57:39] <Connor> but, the MPG was hardwired to the parport.
[17:58:20] <Connor> serial was used for getting info back from LinuxCNC for the LCD, and for axis selection and but selections.. Never finished the project.
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[17:58:57] <Connor> the serial was over USB... I tried sending the pulse train over that.. but.. people said it was a BAD idea.
[18:00:17] <ssi> I'm thinking what I may do is try to get the thing up and running with the original control while i recoup some money and start getting parts for the retrofit
[18:00:43] <PetefromTn_> apparently it is already running right?
[18:01:00] <PetefromTn_> Do you have three phase power there?
[18:01:30] <ssi> I don't think so
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[18:01:49] <ssi> is it just the spindle and coolant pump that are 3 phase?
[18:01:57] <ssi> or are the servo drives also
[18:02:26] <PetefromTn_> I dunno honestly I think all of it was three phase in my machine I know the spindle and coolant pump were anyways.
[18:02:38] <PetefromTn_> you can run it off a phase converter tho.
[18:02:47] <ssi> yeah
[18:02:55] <ssi> there's a 20hp rotary converter in chatt
[18:03:01] <ssi> but they want $1400 for it :/
[18:04:08] <ssi> how does the speed control work with the original control?
[18:04:11] <ssi> spindle speed
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[18:05:46] <ssi> also, which vfd did you get? I was under the impression that all vfds that size were 3ph input
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[18:09:19] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/09/22/5axisworks-brings-low-cost-5-axis-milling-3d-printing-machine-kickstarter/
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[18:09:37] <CaptHindsight> don't laugh https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2003668803/5axismaker-first-ever-affordable-5axis-multi-fabri
[18:09:46] <CaptHindsight> ok, you can
[18:10:49] <CaptHindsight> "We have created our own open source Grasshopper script that allows programming of 5axis machine. "
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[18:10:57] <ssi> lol
[18:11:13] <CaptHindsight> "if we reach our stretch goal of £300,000 we would be able to develop a stand alone easy to use, fully featured software package, which we will share"
[18:11:25] <ssi> 4500 pounds
[18:11:34] <ssi> that's like approaching 10k us, yea?
[18:11:46] <ssi> $7400
[18:11:50] <ssi> "affordable"
[18:12:12] <ssi> I think I could probably buy a bunch of grizzly machine parts and whack together a better 5 axis mill than that for less money
[18:12:26] <PetefromTn_> I went with a hitachi VFD that was derated from 15hp to run the spindle and the coolant pump is also three phase fractional HP so I went with a 1hp VFD for that running single phase input.
[18:12:40] <CaptHindsight> 1 British Pound Sterling equals 1.64 US Dollar
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[18:12:47] <ssi> PetefromTn_: I have a 1/4hp vfd on hand for the coolant pump
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[18:12:58] <ssi> same one I used on the hnc; I bought two of them at the time cause the price was good :)
[18:13:03] <CaptHindsight> so about $7400
[18:13:07] <ssi> PetefromTn_: what's the spindle motor rated at? 7.5hp?
[18:13:10] <ssi> 10hp?
[18:14:27] <ssi> CaptHindsight: I like how they say you can make it a waterjet
[18:14:28] <ssi> hilarity
[18:14:45] <PetefromTn_> mine is 7.5hp
[18:14:59] <ssi> PetefromTn_: the auction says: SPINDLE DRIVE: 15/7.5 HP
[18:15:00] <archivist> does anybody know of collet size lists apart from http://www.lathes.co.uk/collets/
[18:15:02] <ssi> I wonder what that means
[18:15:02] <ssi> heh
[18:15:37] <PetefromTn_> might be what I have here. I seriously doubt the spindle is 15hp.
[18:15:49] <PetefromTn_> anything is possible tho.
[18:16:16] <ssi> what was the original spindle drive?
[18:16:37] <PetefromTn_> what do you mean?
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[18:16:59] <ssi> was it run directly off 3ph?
[18:17:04] <ssi> if so, how did the speed control work?
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[18:17:29] <ssi> for instance, the hardinge has this goofy system; there's two clutches that run two different pulley ratios, and then there's a variable pulley with a ballscrew
[18:17:38] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-MILACRON-ARROW-CONTROL-TECHNIQUES-SPINDLE-DRIVE-SA-1100SNP-SA1100SNP-/181532497518?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a442e166e
[18:18:09] <ssi> holy balls
[18:18:18] <PetefromTn_> yes exactly
[18:18:26] <PetefromTn_> now you see why I gutted the beotch
[18:18:32] <ssi> :)
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[18:19:12] <PetefromTn_> I'll take a $900.00 Hitachi brand new any day over an emerson Control Techniques POS OLD WORN OUT USED drive for $3k
[18:19:51] <ssi> yeah I agree
[18:19:55] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fanuc-Spindle-Drive-Cincinnati-Sabre-/301307664877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46275619ed
[18:19:59] <ssi> I wonderi f that's what's in the sabre
[18:20:12] <ssi> oh well I'll quit speculating and let's just go look at it :)
[18:20:13] <PetefromTn_> probably.
[18:20:21] <ssi> I should probably get my crap together and get on the road
[18:21:09] <PetefromTn_> honestly the machines them selves are usually pretty heavy duty it is the electronics that get dated and worn out and onsolete much quicker. At least as long as it was taken care of at least a little bit.
[18:21:15] <ssi> yeah
[18:21:18] <PetefromTn_> What time do you figure you will be here?
[18:21:25] <PetefromTn_> themselves
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[18:21:28] <ssi> it'll take me prolly an hour to get my stuff together
[18:21:33] <archivist> I can walk to a local one for less than that http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cincinnati-Arrow-750-vmc-cnc-milling-machine-mill-/231339095535
[18:21:35] <ssi> hopefully I can be on the road no later than four
[18:21:45] <ssi> be at your place sevenish
[18:21:56] <PetefromTn_> holy balls that is a worn out piece of shit...
[18:22:07] <ssi> and a bit more of a walk for me :)
[18:22:13] <ssi> a walk, then a swim, then another walk
[18:22:21] <archivist> hehe, less than 5 miles from me
[18:22:39] <PetefromTn_> sorry lucky you can't see it from your house LOL
[18:22:43] <Tom_itx> you need another boat anchor?
[18:22:50] <ssi> PetefromTn_: http://www.ebay.com/sch/bafjb/m.html?item=301307684232&hash=item4627566588&pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562&_vinkw=cincinnati%2Bsabre%2Bspindle%2Bdrive&_vilcat=97184
[18:22:59] <ssi> those probably are the same parts in "mine"
[18:23:10] <ssi> cause teh control he's selling is an acramatic 850sx, which is what "mine" has
[18:23:20] <ssi> shit man if I can get $13k for the old parts
[18:23:24] <ssi> that'd be.... something
[18:23:39] <ssi> anyway, lemme go unload the car finally
[18:23:41] <PetefromTn_> yeah which is why if you get it and sell the parts for HALF what those assholes are pricing them at you could buy everything new inside the machine,
[18:23:46] <ssi> yep
[18:24:11] <PetefromTn_> unload?
[18:24:44] <PetefromTn_> I am working on an emailable invoice here for this job. Never made one before LOL
[18:24:57] <ssi> yeah all the metal and griz parts are still in the trunk :)
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[18:26:26] <PetefromTn_> LOL GRIZ... even the name annoys me.
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[18:38:48] <ssi> heheh
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[18:46:06] <archivist> methinks $35 is a bit rich for a pdf of 40 something pages http://www.industrialmanuals.com/barber-colman-type-automatic-hobbing-machine-operation-manual-year-1943-p-2783.php
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[18:48:41] <kfoltman_> how much does it cost to *not* have that manual?
[18:50:28] <archivist> effort in working out what matters
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[18:51:19] <archivist> I am getting slight errors and not sure where the problem is
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[18:59:54] <archivist> although I am well aware of the costs of providing a manual scanning service :)
[19:00:04] <varesa> How would you implement spindle control on a (220V)DC motor?
[19:00:28] <Connor> varesa: How many amps ?
[19:00:46] <varesa> Connor: I don't remember the exact figure, let's say 2A
[19:00:59] <varesa> something in the area of 1-10A
[19:01:01] <archivist> 2A seems low
[19:01:13] <Connor> Reversing needed ?
[19:01:34] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbcc.pdf
[19:02:01] <Connor> KBCC-225R
[19:02:17] <ssi> 220VDC @ 2A would be like a half horsepower
[19:02:47] <Connor> That is 220v good up to 3HP
[19:02:51] <Connor> with reversing
[19:03:03] <Connor> 0-10v analog
[19:03:07] <Connor> for speed control
[19:03:51] <Connor> WooT: Got my 5i25 + 7i76 combo in today!
[19:03:56] <varesa> seems reasonable enough though could be cheaper :)
[19:03:59] <Connor> Now if my ball screws would show up.
[19:04:11] <archivist> think about the starting current and accidental stall current
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[19:05:11] <varesa> archivist: that figure was around what was stated on the motor plate
[19:05:30] <Connor> varesa: Do you need reversing ?
[19:05:43] <varesa> Connor: not automatical I think
[19:06:03] <varesa> I can always put a manual reverse switch if I for some reason need it
[19:06:28] <Connor> KBIC-225
[19:06:40] <Connor> would work too.. non reversing.. cheaper.
[19:07:04] <varesa> my current temp. setup is a huge transformer 230V->60/120V and a rectifier :)
[19:07:10] <Connor> or KBIC-240
[19:07:34] <Connor> http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_DC_Drives/DC_Drives_Chassis.html
[19:07:37] <Connor> take a look
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[19:08:26] <Connor> match the driver to your motor.
[19:08:51] <Connor> you can get a driver with more HP if you ever need to upsize.. You'll also need the power resistor, which sometimes you have to buy seperate.
[19:09:06] <Connor> these drivers are on ebay all the time..
[19:09:55] <archivist> ebay search for my local mains voltage "dc speed controller 230 v"
[19:11:38] <Connor> Where is PCW at ?
[19:21:15] <varesa> any obvious downsides to cheaper ones like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-DRIVE-1-20-2HP-115-230V-NIB-LATHE-BICL-SMC-00-DC-MOTOR-SPEED-CONTROLLER-/161195769905?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2588044031
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[19:23:47] <archivist> depends if you want to cnc control the speed
[19:24:10] <archivist> is the pot connection isolated
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[19:26:02] <varesa> my primary goal is to get rid of a huge 15kg transformer feeding the motor, something that fits inside the mill would be nice :)
[19:26:33] <varesa> If I'm buying/building something, might as well add some easy-ish speed control, manual should be fine
[19:28:58] <jdh> auto is better
[19:29:09] <varesa> originally I was thinking about just building something like mains -> rectifier -> solid state relay (PWM) -> motor
[19:29:15] <varesa> jdh: true :)
[19:36:09] <Connor> What voltage is the motor ?
[19:36:29] <varesa> Connor: 220V
[19:36:54] <varesa> but I think it rarely needs to go that high
[19:37:17] <Connor> Not sure how well a SSR doing PWM would do.
[19:37:26] <varesa> seems to run ok at 60/120 VAC(RMS) rectified
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[19:39:00] <varesa> or maybe a fet with a opto, haven't spent too much time researching that just yet
[19:40:35] <jdh> ssr can only shut off every zero crossing
[19:40:53] <Connor> he had the SSR after the rectifier.. which means a DC SSR
[19:41:26] <Connor> but, yes.. if using a SSR on the AC side.. then you have a whole other issue.
[19:41:27] <jdh> oh. I recall them being pretty pricey
[19:42:25] <jdh> treadmill controller maybe.
[19:42:54] <Connor> Okay.. I remember reading that their was a BIT file for the 5i25 that swaps the P2 and P3 connectors..
[19:43:09] <Connor> pcw not online.. anyone else know anything about it and where to get it ?
[19:43:40] <jdh> 'that' weird mesa url
[19:44:27] <Connor> I bet it's 5i25_7i76x2r.xml
[19:44:31] <varesa> basically I was thinking about switching the DC with something and maybe adding a cap for LPF
[19:44:54] <jdh> why not jsut get a cheap dc speed controller?
[19:45:30] <gonzo_nb> we used to use thyristors called 'gate turn off' for dc
[19:45:48] <gonzo_nb> you charge a cap and suck the charge out of the gate
[19:46:17] <gonzo_nb> that was got high voltage distribution systems
[19:47:31] <varesa> The spindle motor had a (I heard) triac/thyristor based AC->DC conversion/speed control board but my analog knowledge was not enough to figure out why it doesn't work
[19:48:09] <varesa> jdh: because I'm cheap and like building things (to some degree)
[19:48:19] <varesa> but I've not ruled that option out
[19:48:42] <jdh> yeah, I can go with that. you can ebay treadmill controllers pretty cheap though if you don't need full voltage.
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[19:49:00] <jdh> or maybe .eu ones go higher. I think I have only seen 180vdc ones
[19:50:16] <varesa> One of the things I'd like to get for the mill are more modern stepper drives but currently they are sadly out of my budget
[19:50:39] <jdh> if they work, keep them.
[19:51:54] <varesa> at certain speeds they (I guess because no microstepping) run "roughly" causing random parts to resonate and especially in a confined space the sound is pretty bad
[19:52:04] <varesa> It would be nice if it was just a bit smoother
[19:52:26] <jdh> due to the drivers, or resonance, or timing?
[19:53:13] <varesa> the reason of the sound?
[19:53:20] <jdh> yes
[19:54:39] <varesa> I'm not sure about for example timing, but at lower speed they cause vibrations that make parts resonate, especially some cover panels and stuff like that
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[20:03:40] * JT-Shop just got back from the scrap yard and will not save aluminum turnings anymore
[20:04:43] <mozmck> JT-Shop: what did they give for them?
[20:05:00] <roycroft> melt 'em down and recast them
[20:05:21] <JT-Shop> 0.07 a lb
[20:05:40] <MrHindsight> yeah, next to nothing
[20:05:49] <JT-Shop> 0.09
[20:06:03] <JT-Shop> cast is 0.55
[20:06:03] <mozmck> that's really low it seems, how much do they give for dirty aluminum?
[20:06:09] <roycroft> it's about $2.50/lb new, isn't it?
[20:06:50] * roycroft doesn't buy aluminium enough to keep track of the exact price
[20:06:51] <MrHindsight> the same scrap yard that buys scrap will sell it to me for $0.60/lb
[20:06:54] <mozmck> that's not bad. I think here I get .20 if it's not clean, about .46 for cast, but something like .60 or more for extrusion.
[20:08:03] <JT-Shop> what do they consider clean?
[20:08:30] <mozmck> no paint, no other metal in it (screws and such)
[20:08:39] <MrHindsight> whatever they decide :)
[20:09:27] <roycroft> what about cutting oil?
[20:09:40] <MrHindsight> Connor: you can make your own bitfiles for mesa if you wish/are able
[20:09:49] <mozmck> I don't know, I'll probably find out soon though.
[20:10:09] <Connor> MrHindsight: Umm.. yea.. not EVEN going to go there.. I downloaded the software to do that.. OMG
[20:10:33] <Connor> but.. I know that a BIT file that PCW maintains exists for swapping P2 and P3
[20:10:51] <JT-Shop> I have a bunch of extrusion I need to take next time... I'll never use it
[20:10:58] <MrHindsight> i think he went fishing
[20:11:09] <MrHindsight> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx92_install_index.php just for reference
[20:11:49] <MrHindsight> http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[20:12:22] <MrHindsight> JT-Shop: odd shapes or?
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[20:13:23] <MrHindsight> I think I pay ~$1/lb for left over cuts at Metal Supermarkets
[20:14:20] <JT-Shop> different sizes of square mostly
[20:16:09] <MrHindsight> I use sizes like that all the time for spacers. brackets etc on machines.
[20:18:17] <roycroft> when i bought my tig welder the steel yard that i use gave me a bunch of scrap aluminium to practice on
[20:18:27] <roycroft> much of it was actually useful angle and tubing
[20:18:35] <roycroft> like pieces 2' long
[20:18:55] <roycroft> they used to get about 90% of my metal business
[20:18:57] <roycroft> now they get 100% of it
[20:19:01] <mozmck> I've bought 3 phase motors off equipment, and all kinds of steel for projects at the scrap yard.
[20:20:24] <JT-Shop> non magnetic stainless brings $10.00 a lb
[20:20:36] <mozmck> wow!
[20:20:39] <JT-Shop> a cwt not lb
[20:20:53] <mozmck> oh, what is cwt
[20:21:26] <JT-Shop> hundred weight
[20:21:30] <rythmnbls> ~112 lbs
[20:22:01] <CaptHindsight> the Metal Supermarket near me keeps 12" cuts of everything they have in rounds already trued in multiple diameters
[20:22:18] <mozmck> they don't actually go by 112 lb hundred weight do they?
[20:22:21] <CaptHindsight> is that common from other vendors?
[20:22:33] <roycroft> the steel yard i use sell short pieces too - they do a lot of business in short pieces
[20:22:52] <JT-Shop> no they use 100lb
[20:22:53] <roycroft> they were just being nice to me when they gave me the scrap
[20:23:08] <Connor> CaptHindsight: Where are you located ?
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[20:23:30] <JT-Shop> I hauled 2400 lbs of scrap steel today
[20:23:30] <mozmck> I think the old anvil weights were in 112 lbs
[20:24:13] <roycroft> yes, they were
[20:24:38] <mozmck> I hauled off a mill the other day - about 5000 lb, plus a bunch of bad motors and other scrap. Made more on the mill in scrap than I paid for it though.
[20:24:39] <roycroft> hundredweights * quarter weights * remainder lbs
[20:25:03] <roycroft> * is a dot, not multiplication
[20:25:26] <mozmck> and I guess a quarter weight is 1/4 of a hundredweight?
[20:25:27] <roycroft> so a 1*2*12 anvil weighs 112+28+12lbs = 152 lbs
[20:26:07] <roycroft> er, add 28 to that :)
[20:26:10] <roycroft> but you get the idea
[20:26:29] <Tom_itx> MrHindsight, this link has been more reliable for me: http://tom-itx.ddns01.com:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
[20:26:31] <mozmck> 180
[20:26:52] <mozmck> My anvil is about 148 lb, don't know if it has the weight marks or not.
[20:26:53] <roycroft> new anvils are not useful for anything but boat anchors, so it doesn't matter how they're marked
[20:26:57] <roycroft> except some of the german ones
[20:27:00] <Tom_itx> instead of the no-ip one
[20:27:05] <roycroft> which are not marked in hundredweights
[20:27:24] <mozmck> There are some good anvil makers still I hear, but they are not cheap
[20:27:48] <roycroft> a decent old anvil in good shape is going to cost about $2/lb or slightly more these days
[20:28:04] <roycroft> a new one that's good quality at least twice that much
[20:28:13] <mozmck> yes, some people want a lot more, but I still do see them for $2/lb
[20:28:28] <roycroft> a chinese boat anchor anvil is more like $1/lb
[20:29:28] <CaptHindsight> speaking of boat anchors, what does auto scrap sell for?
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[20:29:54] <roycroft> i don't know, but more than parting out vehicles is worth
[20:30:04] <roycroft> the auto scrap yards around here are disappearing
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[20:30:14] <roycroft> it seems they keep a vehicle for about a week then crush it
[20:30:39] <Tom_itx> Connor, i'm not sure you use those pages for the 5i25
[20:30:44] <CaptHindsight> the self serve yards are popular but I hate them
[20:31:04] <roycroft> i hate that they charge to go out to the yard
[20:31:21] <roycroft> even though it's only $1, i don't believe in having to pay for the privilege of shopping
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[20:31:51] <roycroft> i usually just wait 'til they're busy, sign in, and walk out to the yard without paying
[20:32:27] <JT-Shop> I tell people that ask that my anvil has the weight stamped on the bottom... feel free to look
[20:32:32] <micges> Connor: hi, what problem do you have with mesa?
[20:32:45] <roycroft> but since there are hardly ever any vehicles with useful parts these days, i don't go to the wrecking yards much any more
[20:32:50] <CaptHindsight> roycroft: or not finding anything they said that they had
[20:33:14] <roycroft> well they alway say they have what you want
[20:33:24] <roycroft> that way they can charge you the $1 to go out and not find it
[20:34:09] <Tom_itx> i called for a part and they wanted $25 for it... went down to get it, found 2 on an assembly and took them up to the desk and paid them $10 for both
[20:34:37] <roycroft> that's not unusual
[20:34:45] <Tom_itx> i know
[20:34:45] <CaptHindsight> I once drove 50 miles to find out that they were a self serve
[20:34:56] <Tom_itx> i call just to see if they might have what i'm looking for..
[20:35:11] <CaptHindsight> but they were nice to enough to pull it and not charge me extra
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[20:35:31] <CaptHindsight> I was in a suit
[20:35:42] <roycroft> you also can't take a torch into a yard
[20:35:54] <roycroft> and i get dirty looks when i bring a battery sawzall
[20:36:01] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, surprised the suit didn't cost you more
[20:36:26] <CaptHindsight> heh, and with kids
[20:37:32] <CaptHindsight> probably best to show up not wearing a shirt
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[21:04:08] <Jymmm> lol @ CaptHindsight
[21:04:12] <Jymmm> or pants!
[21:04:20] <Jymmm> or shoes!
[21:04:24] <Jymmm> shoes cost more!
[21:04:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/dc/exposure/homepage/photoconfiguration/image/35693_photo_iowd57nn7vsga6fmskhtedtvttbpswa7koaqqfqar4sldunilqga_850x478.jpg
[21:04:35] <Tom_itx> unrelated.
[21:04:38] <Jymmm> <deliverance sound track begins to play>
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[21:24:58] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:27:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the banjo duel?
[21:27:38] <Jymmm> yeah, hillbilly style, no shoes
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[21:31:11] <Loetmichel> my fingers are WAY to slow for that
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[21:46:06] <Jymmm> you play ganjo?
[21:46:10] <Jymmm> banjo*
[21:53:39] <Connor> micges No problem.. Just remembered something about a firmware that swaps P2 and P3
[21:54:23] <Connor> I plan on using the internal P2 not the P3 for my 7i76.
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[21:55:37] <Connor> looking at the card.. I wonder what the W6, U9 and RN141 where for.. and the other 2x4 header pins next to P2 were for or planned for...
[21:55:51] <Connor> Always wonder when I see a card with non-populated items...
[21:55:57] <CaptHindsight> speaking of the bitfiles and port swap PCW: has returned
[21:56:11] <Connor> Oh. Has he. Welcome back PCW
[21:57:13] <PCW> mystery parts just in case....
[21:57:45] <Connor> in case what? :)
[21:58:35] <PCW> in case they are needed of course
[21:59:08] <PCW> actually the latest 5i25 card have a dual EEPROM option
[21:59:24] <PCW> but normally not installed
[21:59:32] <Tom_itx> PCW does the 5i25 use the methods i posted on my pages for bit files or another way?
[21:59:34] <Connor> is that what the U2 chip is ?
[21:59:42] <Connor> the eprom ?
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[22:00:07] <PCW> yes 8 or 16 mbit SPI flash EEPROM
[22:00:32] <Connor> and.. the W6 would be to select which EEPROM I'm guessing.
[22:00:44] <PCW> Yes A/B
[22:00:57] <Connor> Rn141 support chip for U9.
[22:00:58] <Connor> Gotcha.
[22:01:30] <PCW> just a pullup for the unconnected CS pin
[22:02:29] <PCW> I think the jumper just routes /CS to one chip or the other
[22:03:36] <Connor> is 5i25_7i76x2r the bit file that flips P2 and P3 ?
[22:03:46] <PCW> Tom_itx: should be the same as any other hostmot2 config (5I25 uses TopPCIHostMot2.vhd as the top level file)
[22:03:53] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: a bit of guitar
[22:03:59] <Loetmichel> aber not at that speed ;-)
[22:04:14] <PCW> yes r is the reversed pin-out version
[22:04:25] <Connor> okay. That's what I thought.
[22:11:50] <roycroft> i just got a new drive belt for my lathe
[22:12:00] <roycroft> i think i'll go work on those ball screw shafts now
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[22:31:18] <Connor> Hey Guys, Which way is correct orientation of a DIN rail terminal block.. where the clip release is on top or bottom?
[22:32:02] tjb11 is now known as tjb1
[22:37:50] <jdh> I default to bottom
[22:37:55] <jdh> for din rail anyway
[22:38:44] <jdh> but, for 3-level ones I put them so the top offset makes sense.
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[22:42:26] <JT-Shop> Connor, which ever way is easier to get them back off
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[22:47:58] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah, well you are beter than me on all counts i that respect, unless you count making animlas howl =)
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[23:04:53] <Connor> jdh: You there?
[23:04:55] <Connor> chk pvt msg
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[23:15:30] <Connor_iPad> jdh: On ipad now
[23:16:25] <Jymmm> Connor_iPad: We couldn't tell ;)
[23:16:39] <Connor_iPad> Jymmm: Yea yea
[23:17:43] <jdh> k
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[23:53:18] <Tom_itx> PCW, not having one i just thought they configured differently than the older cards
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