#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-09-15

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[01:03:36] <Connor> PetefromTn_: jdh: Ballscrews/nuts ordered. Bearings & Shims ordered, Large bolts for rear column extension ordered, bolts for tombstone extension ordered.
[01:04:27] <Connor> All that's left to order is the material to make the column extension and the tombstone spindle extension
[01:08:11] <jdh> tombstone extension?
[01:08:22] <Connor> the extension for the spindle..
[01:08:27] <Connor> shaped like a tombstone..
[01:08:28] <jdh> havent'heard of that one
[01:08:50] <Connor> vs just a cylinder. Gives more surface area.
[01:09:01] <Connor> http://www.g0704.com/Projects.html#travel
[01:16:23] <jdh> grizzly should get the mfg to make some of these mods
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[01:40:37] <PetefromTn_andro> Evening folks
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[01:40:57] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: Ballscrews/nuts ordered. Bearings & Shims ordered, Large bolts for rear column extension ordered, bolts for tombstone extension ordered.
[01:41:03] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: I sent you a email too.
[01:42:18] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay I know you have a lot you want to get done but we May not be able to do it all that weekend.
[01:42:32] <Connor> PetefromTn_andro: Oh I know.
[01:42:44] <PetefromTn_andro> We will just do the best we can one step att a time
[01:43:00] <Connor> I'm in no hurry.. Haven't been in a long time. :)
[01:43:37] <PetefromTn_andro> The best thing you can do for us is to have everything organized and know exactly what we need to do and how and we will try to get it all fini
[01:44:46] <Connor> I'll do my best. :)
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[01:45:36] <PetefromTn_andro> I need to get this prototype machined this week for sure. Got everything ready to be cammed up and start cutting in the morning
[01:45:51] <Connor> Good deal.
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[01:46:25] <PetefromTn_andro> This is going to be the most challenging project I have attempted to date
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[01:46:51] <PetefromTn_andro> I'm nervous as a schoolgirl about it hehe
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[01:47:27] <Connor> Just take your time.. Measure twice, cut once, then do a spring pass..
[01:47:33] <Connor> :)
[01:48:22] <PetefromTn_andro> I still need to get this encoder wiring ready to go into the machine did not get to it this weekend. It's my youngest daughter's birthday.
[01:49:59] <PetefromTn_andro> And I just fnished mowing the damn lawn too I love how the yard looks when the lawn is freshly mowed. I just hate doing the mowing hehe
[01:50:54] <PetefromTn_andro> Heard from ssi today?
[01:51:11] <Connor> Nope
[01:52:53] <PetefromTn_andro> After seeing your schnauser my kids want a schnauser now....
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[01:57:34] <Connor_iPad> On ipad now
[01:57:39] <zeeshan> Connor:
[01:57:45] <zeeshan> did you order from linmotion2008?
[01:57:55] <Connor_iPad> Do they. They're cute scruffy dogs.
[01:58:03] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: yes
[01:58:08] <zeeshan> sweet
[01:58:24] <zeeshan> you know i was trying to order more ball screws from him
[01:58:29] <zeeshan> but i measured my mill ball screw
[01:58:32] <zeeshan> its frigging 1.5" in diameter
[01:58:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Yeah man I know I grew up with one named max and he was. The best damn dog Eva!!
[01:58:46] <zeeshan> not sure where to order =/
[01:59:04] <Connor_iPad> What's the screw for?
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[01:59:35] <zeeshan> Y
[01:59:48] <zeeshan> i havent measured X yet
[02:00:00] <Connor_iPad> For what machine?
[02:00:03] <zeeshan> the mill
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[02:01:29] <Connor_iPad> Not sure what the largest size he has.
[02:01:37] <zeeshan> i think its 25mm =/
[02:02:25] <Connor_iPad> That's only 1"
[02:04:05] <PetefromTn_andro> Any of you guys have that xbh whatever pendant setup on a linuxcnc machine?
[02:07:27] <PetefromTn_andro> XHC HB04 I guess is the model although I am more interested in the usb cabled models.
[02:08:00] <PetefromTn_andro> Looks like a nice setup
[02:09:07] <Connor_iPad> Yea it does.
[02:09:16] <zeeshan> i need to cut a tapered thread
[02:09:21] <zeeshan> i wonder how to do it :/
[02:09:31] <zeeshan> if its as simple as using cam
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[02:13:31] <android14141480> Hi. How i can do a hight controller ?
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[02:16:11] <PetefromTn_andro> Android I'm afraid your gonna have to be a lot more specific if you want a serious answer from these guys...
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[02:19:28] <PetefromTn_andro> Connor have you messed with that spindle probe any lately?
[02:19:46] <Connor_iPad> No. No point till I get the backlash fixes.
[02:19:55] <PetefromTn_andro> Aah.
[02:20:26] <PetefromTn_andro> I thought that it was pretty decent really from what you showed me of it.
[02:21:25] -!- now7777 [now7777!~androirc@200.8.5.179] has joined #linuxcnc
[02:21:36] <now7777> Hi
[02:21:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Hi
[02:22:01] <now7777> I need to make a hight controller for plasma cutter
[02:22:06] <Connor_iPad> I need to calibrate the tip. And give it another go.
[02:22:18] <Tom_itx> now7777, talk to ssi`
[02:22:23] <Tom_itx> or JT-Shop
[02:22:33] <now7777> What?
[02:22:40] <Tom_itx> i bet at least one of them is asleep though
[02:22:41] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup you do. Gotta get that thing perfectly concentric
[02:23:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup ssi just did a nice thc setup all
[02:23:23] <now7777> Tom_itx sorry but i dont understand
[02:23:40] <PetefromTn_andro> Seems like it works well for him
[02:23:50] <Tom_itx> how much clearer does it need to be? speak to ssi or JT-Shop about their plasma setups
[02:23:53] <PetefromTn_andro> Ssi is a member here whi
[02:24:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Who has done what you are asking about
[02:24:16] <now7777> Ah ok. Sorry im new here
[02:24:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Might try messaging him directly..
[02:25:14] <now7777> Thank you im going to try it
[02:25:56] <Tom_itx> i would generally ask in channel to pm somone i didn't know
[02:26:26] <PetefromTn_andro> Connor have you seen any of his zero backlash screws in person?
[02:26:47] <Connor_iPad> Who's ?
[02:27:08] <PetefromTn_andro> Whoever you bought them from?
[02:27:23] <Connor_iPad> Lmb2008's ?
[02:27:40] <PetefromTn_andro> What kinda accuracy error do they have?
[02:28:06] <zeeshan> i noticed 2-3 thou backlash on my screws
[02:28:10] <zeeshan> from lmb2008
[02:28:13] <Connor_iPad> I have some 1610's on my CNC router.
[02:28:29] <Connor_iPad> But. It's MDF. Hard to tell the backlash on it.
[02:28:30] <PetefromTn_andro> The new zero backlash models?
[02:28:34] <zeeshan> yes
[02:28:41] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:28:54] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: Double nuts ?
[02:28:55] <zeeshan> im currently using backlash compensation
[02:28:57] <zeeshan> no single nut
[02:29:05] <PetefromTn_andro> :O
[02:29:07] <Connor_iPad> I'm getting double nuts.
[02:29:12] <zeeshan> yea you'll be fine then
[02:29:12] <Tom_itx> double nut with a spring between?
[02:29:32] <Connor_iPad> No. Preloaded.
[02:30:07] <PetefromTn_andro> What is the per foot linear error supposed to be?
[02:30:18] <Connor_iPad> C7.
[02:30:25] <Connor_iPad> Let me look it up.
[02:30:33] <zeeshan> i honestly dont notice any error over 36"
[02:30:45] <zeeshan> at least not more than 0.0005"
[02:30:54] <zeeshan> cause thats was the accuracy of the indicator
[02:31:00] <zeeshan> they're great ball screws
[02:31:02] <zeeshan> minus the backlash
[02:31:28] <zeeshan> they're not hardened screws though
[02:31:44] <PetefromTn_andro> Been thinking of cncing my 12x36 lately..
[02:31:54] <zeeshan> dooo ittt
[02:32:14] <PetefromTn_andro> How can they be ballscrews and not hardened?
[02:32:30] <zeeshan> shrug
[02:32:38] <zeeshan> they might be hardened
[02:32:41] <zeeshan> im assuming theyre not
[02:32:42] <Connor_iPad> +-50/300mm I think
[02:32:45] <zeeshan> because i milled flats at the end of em
[02:32:48] <zeeshan> w/ carbide
[02:32:53] <zeeshan> and it was pretty easy
[02:33:02] <Connor_iPad> They surface hardened.
[02:33:11] <now7777> There is a channel for freecad? Someone knows?
[02:33:13] <zeeshan> o
[02:33:29] <PetefromTn_andro> Aren't the ends supposed to be annealed usually?
[02:33:43] <zeeshan> i'm not sure
[02:33:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Yup # freecad..
[02:34:03] <Connor_iPad> If you get them already machined. They'll be soft on the ends.
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[02:34:35] <PetefromTn_andro> You are much better off going to ask questions on their forum than the Irc from my experience
[02:36:25] <PetefromTn_andro> I have machined several ballscrews from cheap to pretty expensive and neither of them were all that hard to turn in my lathe once you cut thru the outer hardness
[02:37:31] <PetefromTn_andro> How much was your screws for the lathe?
[02:37:41] <zeeshan> i think 280 total
[02:37:50] <zeeshan> w/ shipping
[02:38:04] <PetefromTn_andro> What size did you wind up getting?
[02:38:07] <zeeshan> 2505
[02:38:14] <zeeshan> for Z and 1605 for X
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[02:39:07] <PetefromTn_andro> Is that 25 and 16 mm by 05 or something?
[02:39:22] <zeeshan> yes
[02:39:26] <zeeshan> 5 mm lead
[02:40:35] <PetefromTn_andro> How long was your z screws?
[02:41:51] <zeeshan> this is what i ordered:
[02:42:06] <zeeshan> RM2505x1200 mm w/ BF20 and BK20 end mounts
[02:42:45] <zeeshan> RM1605x700 w/ zeeshan: BF12 and BK12 end mounts
[02:43:01] <zeeshan> total cost $270 USD shipped
[02:43:20] <PetefromTn_andro> Do the end mounts come with angular contact bearings?
[02:43:43] <zeeshan> the fixed one comes with 2 angular contact bearings
[02:43:50] <zeeshan> the floating mount is just a ball bearing
[02:44:06] <PetefromTn_andro> Nice that's pretty freaking cheap really.
[02:44:42] <zeeshan> yea dude
[02:44:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Did you get the ends machined or did you do it yourself?
[02:44:48] <zeeshan> nah man
[02:44:51] <zeeshan> i just made use of the standard stuff
[02:44:54] <zeeshan> and made brackets for it
[02:45:07] <zeeshan> i had to remove like .25" from the mounts
[02:45:10] <zeeshan> to make it work
[02:45:14] <Connor_iPad> You'll want to get some shims.
[02:45:20] <zeeshan> shims for what connor
[02:45:23] <Connor_iPad> For the bearing pockets.
[02:45:27] <zeeshan> mine were fine
[02:45:30] <PetefromTn_andro> Shims for what?
[02:45:53] <zeeshan> he's talking about the spacer between the two angular bearings
[02:46:00] <Connor_iPad> The ones for my router weren't.
[02:46:03] <zeeshan> it has to be machined wider
[02:46:06] <PetefromTn_andro> I wonder how much more for zero backlash models?
[02:46:08] <zeeshan> so the bearings are preloaded
[02:46:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: these are zero back lash
[02:46:29] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: I think he means the double nuts.
[02:46:35] <zeeshan> oh
[02:46:41] <zeeshan> its like 30 bux per nut
[02:46:46] <zeeshan> so prolly not much more to do it
[02:47:19] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn
[02:47:49] <zeeshan> from my understanding, the ball screws are made in the same factory a lot of german machines ball screws are made
[02:48:24] <PetefromTn_andro> So like 350 for screws maybe another 250 for motors and belts and probably in under a grand most likely
[02:48:39] <zeeshan> i spent a lot on my motors and drivers
[02:48:39] <zeeshan> =/
[02:48:45] <zeeshan> cause i ended up running 1200oz-in
[02:48:51] <zeeshan> cause i didnt want to be limited by torque
[02:49:06] <zeeshan> it cost me like 1200$ to do everything
[02:49:10] <zeeshan> and s hitload of time :/
[02:49:18] <PetefromTn_andro> I would run servos and mesa hardware
[02:49:50] <zeeshan> why
[02:50:03] <jdh> because steppers are lame.
[02:50:08] <Connor_iPad> I would just do steppers.
[02:50:09] <zeeshan> why?
[02:50:11] <PetefromTn_andro> Should have never sold those old servos I had here awhile back
[02:50:19] <zeeshan> its not like you need more than 100-150ipm
[02:50:23] <zeeshan> software step is fine
[02:51:17] <PetefromTn_andro> I just like servos and my wife gets freaked out when she hears stepper motors running hehe
[02:51:24] <zeeshan> haha
[02:51:43] <PetefromTn_andro> Besides I like the speed and power available.
[02:51:48] <zeeshan> like i said
[02:51:50] <zeeshan> you dont need the speed
[02:51:59] <zeeshan> its a 12x36 chinese lathe
[02:52:14] <zeeshan> servos are a waste of $ and time in my opinion
[02:52:17] <zeeshan> and so is mesa hardware
[02:52:39] <PetefromTn_andro> Okay. That's your opinion..
[02:52:49] <Connor_iPad> You already have another 5i25 right?
[02:52:54] <zeeshan> yes its an experienced opinion
[02:53:16] <humble_sea_bass> zeeshan: why didn't you give that annoying guy from a few months back this information
[02:53:23] <humble_sea_bass> fuck man. you trolled him hard
[02:53:32] <zeeshan> mesa makes sense if you wanna run more than 200ipm on your lathe
[02:53:39] <zeeshan> which is a bad idea on the 900lb 12x36
[02:54:01] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: which guy lol
[02:54:02] <PetefromTn_andro> After working with parallel port crap and gecko drivers last time and now mesa cards and pro quality servos it is a no Brainer to me know
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[02:54:24] <zeeshan> steppers are pro quality too
[02:54:30] <Connor_iPad> I would do Mesa just for the extra I/O.
[02:54:35] <humble_sea_bass> i forgot his name, but we all fell into that terrible loop answering the same shit as questions. he wantred to make 3d printer parts
[02:54:35] <zeeshan> lots of big brand companies make steppers
[02:54:48] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: rofl me too i forgot, but i vaguely remember being trolled
[02:54:52] <Connor_iPad> Servos. Probably not.
[02:55:09] <zeeshan> connor what extra i/o would you need on a lathe?
[02:55:16] <zeeshan> i have limit switches working, home switches
[02:55:17] <zeeshan> coolant
[02:55:22] <zeeshan> remember its only 2 axis
[02:55:29] <zeeshan> so you have a lot more free i/o
[02:55:30] <Connor_iPad> Collect closer, turret.
[02:55:46] <zeeshan> that'd make sense
[02:56:05] <zeeshan> i'm planning to manually change tools
[02:56:33] <humble_sea_bass> i need to find a decent lathe with a decent spindle bore on it
[02:56:49] <zeeshan> thats the one thing i dont like about the 12x36
[02:56:52] <zeeshan> the spindle bore size
[02:56:53] <zeeshan> its tiny
[02:57:00] <zeeshan> 1 7/8" ors omething
[02:57:01] <PetefromTn_andro> I guess it is just about simple reliable integration for me mesa and linuxcnc just plain work..
[02:57:08] <zeeshan> the school lathes are sweet like that, 3" spindle bore
[02:57:16] <humble_sea_bass> my billiards addiction wants me to get a cue lathe, but i sure as hell don't have room for specialized tools like that
[02:57:33] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: if you're used to steppers, then i'd use steppers
[02:57:44] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_andro: Honestly. I would do steppers on your lathe. Dont think the added coat of servos worth it.
[02:57:46] <jdh> steppers are for toy machines
[02:57:48] <PetefromTn_andro> Never had a steel
[02:57:54] <zeeshan> jdh stop trolling
[02:57:56] <PetefromTn_andro> Stepper machine
[02:58:34] <PetefromTn_andro> Why do you think he is trolling?
[02:58:42] <zeeshan> because that's a troll like comment
[02:58:46] <zeeshan> not educated at all
[02:58:51] <jdh> if you say so.
[02:59:03] <PetefromTn_andro> Is your opinion more valid than his?
[02:59:08] <zeeshan> steppers have their applications, servos have their applications
[02:59:10] <zeeshan> both have their pros and cons
[02:59:14] <humble_sea_bass> steppers are a hassle sometimes
[02:59:16] <zeeshan> just saying one is for a toy machine is ignorant
[02:59:27] <humble_sea_bass> but not a toy
[02:59:27] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: yes because it's not ignorant
[02:59:31] <jdh> teh only 'pro' of steppers is they are cheap
[02:59:38] <zeeshan> jdh really?
[02:59:44] <zeeshan> then why do companies like allied motion still produce steppers
[02:59:46] <zeeshan> and baldor
[02:59:51] <humble_sea_bass> it is like calling a hand saw a toy when you can get a festool
[02:59:58] <jdh> no it isnt'
[03:00:05] <zeeshan> please answer me
[03:00:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Festool is junk
[03:00:23] <jdh> who makes a real stepper cnc machine
[03:00:34] <zeeshan> no one
[03:00:36] <humble_sea_bass> I used to make doors with festools you commie
[03:00:38] <zeeshan> because they're designing for production
[03:00:48] <zeeshan> a 12x36 isn't a production lathe
[03:00:58] <jdh> no, it's a nice toy :)
[03:01:09] <PetefromTn_andro> Man I have been a pro woodworker for almost20 years
[03:01:09] <zeeshan> its a great prototyping
[03:01:11] <zeeshan> one off machine
[03:01:31] <humble_sea_bass> that don't mean you aint a red commie
[03:01:52] <PetefromTn_andro> Smoke my shorts man..smokem.
[03:02:04] <jdh> that's one of those east tn. insults?
[03:02:15] <humble_sea_bass> my hilti circ saw is the closest thing to a decent saw on a rail
[03:02:30] <PetefromTn_andro> No that's a petefromtn original
[03:02:32] <humble_sea_bass> but miles behind the festool
[03:02:46] <Connor_iPad> Tormach and Novakon use steppers
[03:03:01] <PetefromTn_andro> And..
[03:03:09] <jdh> tormach is a 'personal cnc' and they don't use plain steppers
[03:03:14] <asah> wow, its lively in here… anyone can give help on Fanuc commutation signal issues?
[03:03:35] <asah> I am getting a weird sequence for some reason.
[03:03:37] <humble_sea_bass> steppers eat a dick with high speed repeatability, given that need
[03:03:48] <zeeshan> humble_sea_bass: yessir
[03:03:51] <zeeshan> steppers sak at high speed
[03:03:57] <PetefromTn_andro> Festool is junk used em many times... Broke more than they worked...
[03:04:45] <PetefromTn_andro> ;)
[03:04:46] <Connor_iPad> Anyway. For that size of machine. I think steppers or hybrid steppers would be fine.
[03:04:59] <zeeshan> im definitely doing servos on my mill
[03:05:01] <PetefromTn_andro> Sure they would..
[03:05:02] <jdh> fine, or fine for the price?
[03:05:04] <zeeshan> need the speeeeeeed
[03:05:08] <humble_sea_bass> open loops do that, so since I'm at home, and downtime ain't costing me a thing except a few spliffs, hell...
[03:05:21] <zeeshan> gonna run the mill at 300 ipm
[03:05:23] <zeeshan> |=D
[03:05:32] <zeeshan> and definitely running mesa
[03:05:34] <zeeshan> for ATC
[03:05:44] <zeeshan> and digi probing
[03:05:47] <humble_sea_bass> i'm gonna take the money i saved on servos and smoke at 300ipm
[03:05:52] <Connor_iPad> Jdh. Fine as in no problems. The key is to size the stepper, to the application. Which includes looking at the top speed and the torque.
[03:06:03] <PetefromTn_andro> But since I like closed loop servos and mesa cards if I ever actually build another cnc that is what will be on it.
[03:06:04] <zeeshan> Connor_iPad: respect
[03:06:27] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: closed loop is superior you're right
[03:06:33] <zeeshan> but ive been cutting tool steel on my machine
[03:06:35] <zeeshan> and i havent lost a step
[03:06:38] <zeeshan> 200 sfm
[03:06:47] <zeeshan> is closed loop really necessary?
[03:06:59] <zeeshan> especially if you oversize the steppers?
[03:07:03] <Connor_iPad> Yoiu can so closed loop with steppers, using glass scales and steppers in torque mode.
[03:07:13] <PetefromTn_andro> Perhaps not for you apparently
[03:07:22] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: it's not apparently
[03:07:25] <zeeshan> it's how it is
[03:07:30] <zeeshan> i can make videos fo ryou if you dont believe me
[03:07:34] <humble_sea_bass> glass scales are abitch to mount
[03:07:42] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: you know what, run your servos
[03:07:46] <PetefromTn_andro> Never said I didn't believe you
[03:07:48] <zeeshan> i dont care!
[03:07:57] <jdh> connor: so given a choice, for the same price, you would pick a stepper system over servos.
[03:08:10] <PetefromTn_andro> I am sure you Don't
[03:08:17] <zeeshan> Connor: i heard with glass scale feedback
[03:08:19] <zeeshan> the response is too slow
[03:08:33] <Connor_iPad> Jdh. Depends if the servps
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[03:08:53] <Connor_iPad> Servos are tuned correctly. They can be a b!tch to tune.
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[03:09:27] <PetefromTn_andro> The reality is servos Are really not all that much more expensive than stepper motors when you get into nema larger sizes
[03:09:33] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: Shouldnt be. If you use good quality scales and not some cheap manual DRO.
[03:09:33] <zeeshan> the holding torque of a stepper
[03:09:36] <zeeshan> cant be beat by a servo
[03:09:46] <zeeshan> thats why almost all servo systems need a brake
[03:09:50] <zeeshan> making it even more expensive
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[03:10:21] <PetefromTn_andro> Why would a puny Chinese lathe need a brake on either axis?
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[03:10:46] <zeeshan> machine some interrupted cut on stainless steel
[03:10:50] <zeeshan> you'll know really fast why
[03:10:55] <pcw_home_> It really more a size thing > say 200W steppers are pretty worthless
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[03:11:10] <zeeshan> pcw_home_: what do you mean
[03:11:21] <PetefromTn_andro> My Cincinnati needs a brake on the z because the millhead weighs as much as my truck LOL
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[03:11:49] <pcw_home_> they are too inefficient and expensive for larger sizes
[03:12:38] <asah> any reason FANUC graycode should be giving out “wrong” rotor angles from the bldc component
[03:12:39] <zeeshan> interesting
[03:12:44] <zeeshan> festo makes stepper motors too
[03:12:47] <PetefromTn_andro> There is no way you can tell me that a servo with a proper belt drive setup would ever need a brake on that lathe no matter what the duck
[03:12:57] <PetefromTn_andro> You are cutting hehe
[03:13:14] <zeeshan> PetefromTn_andro: try it out
[03:13:16] <zeeshan> report back
[03:13:17] <zeeshan> :D
[03:13:18] <humble_sea_bass> what chinese lathe are we talking abooot
[03:13:21] <toastydeath> depends on the type of servo, but yes, servos need brakes when they aren't moving
[03:13:36] <pcw_home_> up to ~200 W they are cheaper, and have high torque at reasonable speeds (servo motors very often need to be geared down to ball screw speed)
[03:13:42] <PetefromTn_andro> Bs
[03:14:11] * zeeshan detects PetefromTn_andro is biased
[03:14:12] <zeeshan> :)
[03:14:13] <toastydeath> most machines don't sufferer a bigass load suddenly, and so don't need them on most axes
[03:14:14] <pcw_home_> steppers do also (they have _no_ braking if in motion)
[03:14:16] <toastydeath> *suffer
[03:14:38] <PetefromTn_andro> I don't have to try it my rf45 and had a similar setup and never been a problem
[03:14:39] <toastydeath> but shit like spindles and and rotary axes often do require a brake
[03:14:51] <toastydeath> when they're not actively contouring
[03:15:06] <zeeshan> toastydeath: i noticed on my lathe
[03:15:12] <toastydeath> but again it depends on the type of servo and the type of drive
[03:15:15] <zeeshan> when i do an interrupted cut on harder to machine materials
[03:15:25] <zeeshan> the X axis starts moving by itself (when it used t obe manual)
[03:15:48] <zeeshan> but i havent had that problem since going cnc w/ the steppers
[03:15:55] <zeeshan> it holds position pretty good now
[03:16:06] <zeeshan> im assuming its mainly because of the holding torque
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[03:17:50] <toastydeath> correct
[03:18:52] <zeeshan> with the mill i am planning to add linear actuators where the gib locks are
[03:18:58] <zeeshan> to work along with servos
[03:19:04] <zeeshan> if i go w/ the servo route
[03:19:30] <PetefromTn_andro> How many cnc machines have you built?
[03:19:41] <zeeshan> 1
[03:20:08] <zeeshan> and it works perfect
[03:20:13] <zeeshan> that engineering degree paid off
[03:20:15] <zeeshan> :D
[03:20:30] <zeeshan> i was clueless before
[03:20:39] <Connor_iPad> I want to build a dual purpose 4th axis. It will be a servo. And will need a break.
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[03:21:01] <zeeshan> Connor_iPad: im assuming for turning on a mill?
[03:21:05] <zeeshan> why a servo?
[03:21:17] <Connor_iPad> Dual purpose as in spindle and rotarty functions.
[03:21:24] <zeeshan> ahh
[03:21:29] <Connor_iPad> High speed for turning.
[03:21:43] <zeeshan> servo ftw there
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[03:22:01] <pcw_home_> Spindles and unbalanced Z axis are the most common brake location I've noticed
[03:22:33] <Connor_iPad> zeeshan: ftw?
[03:22:42] <XXCoder> way to go zee
[03:22:43] <zeeshan> pcw_home_: on the emag cnc machines i noticed brakes on all axis
[03:22:51] <zeeshan> Connor_iPad: "for the win"
[03:23:10] <zeeshan> can't beat a servo when it comes to high speed spindle and indexing applications
[03:23:33] <zeeshan> XXCoder: ??
[03:23:47] <XXCoder> our first machine being functional
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[03:24:13] <asah> pcw_home_: I am getting graycode out of my fanuc motor correctly, that is the greycode increases correctly 1 bit at a time, but the calculated rotor angle out of the bldc component are non increasing. they jump around.
[03:24:20] <pcw_home_> just safety? or locking static axis?
[03:24:40] <pcw_home_> asah inverted?
[03:24:41] <zeeshan> pcw_home_: i was under the impression that you can lock an axis under heavy turning
[03:24:48] <zeeshan> like really really heavy turning
[03:25:09] <asah> like sense inverted?
[03:25:22] <zeeshan> XXCoder: one day your machine will kick ass :)
[03:25:29] <XXCoder> hope so lol'
[03:25:35] <pcw_home_> each bit logically inverted
[03:25:36] <zeeshan> you'll get it done before jdh!
[03:25:50] * zeeshan hides
[03:26:49] <asah> nope, that wasn’t it.
[03:27:32] <asah> (well, I just tried hooking up the bits in reverse order) I am sure that Cn1 is Cn1 etc.
[03:27:40] <asah> tripple checked that.
[03:27:42] <pcw_home_> yeah I think thats just the other way
[03:28:04] <asah> I went through and copied down all the states.
[03:28:14] <pcw_home_> Ive never tried that part of the BLDC comp
[03:28:38] <asah> ack.
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[03:28:59] <asah> the greycode increases correctly, the values coming out are not correctly graycoding though. =(
[03:29:15] <pcw_home_> we got it working on our 8I21 but using our code (and your motor thats still here...)
[03:29:30] <asah> time to check the source...
[03:30:00] <asah> Ill email you the table I wrote down. If anythign jumps out let me know.
[03:30:09] <pcw_home_> OK
[03:30:16] <zeeshan> asah what machine are you retrofitting?
[03:30:28] <pcw_home_> I can look at our table Monday
[03:30:45] <asah> its a maho 400 e from 1986.
[03:30:54] <asah> now with fanuc motors! =)
[03:31:07] <pcw_home_> (we just used bits 2,3 and 4 since the 8I21 only has the 3 hall inputs))
[03:31:09] <zeeshan> nice
[03:31:32] <pcw_home_> but no serial encoders?
[03:32:09] <pcw_home_> that would avoid the cn1..4 nonsense
[03:32:44] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAyNFg1NzY=/z/hNsAAOSwd4tUEF7z/$_20.JPG
[03:32:47] <zeeshan> interesting looking cnc mill
[03:32:51] <zeeshan> 300 km from me
[03:32:54] <zeeshan> $2500
[03:33:35] <XXCoder> look at all that fun orange oxide paint job
[03:33:45] <zeeshan> haha
[03:33:50] <XXCoder> could clean up nice but depends on how much broken stuff it has
[03:33:55] <zeeshan> for some reason that doesnt look like rust
[03:34:02] <zeeshan> its too flourescent
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[03:34:12] <zeeshan> i dont understand how this machine works though
[03:34:21] <zeeshan> i dont see X and Y motors
[03:34:40] <asah> the serial encoders are on the robot
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[03:34:56] <asah> yes, they would have been way easier!
[03:35:00] <pcw_home_> ahh
[03:35:22] <asah> these are from older robots.
[03:35:35] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/london/excello-cnc/1011891670?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[03:35:36] <zeeshan> !!!!
[03:35:37] <zeeshan> 1200$
[03:35:39] <asah> fanuc 5f. they are actually absolute (battery backed style)
[03:35:58] <asah> but I am ignoring that pain.
[03:35:58] <zeeshan> wow that looks like a nice machine to retrofit
[03:36:26] <asah> it is very nice… almost done!
[03:36:38] <pcw_home_> an not been outdoors for an indefinite period
[03:36:46] <zeeshan> gonna msg that guy
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[03:42:05] <pcw_home_> ahh yes those funny encoders that spit out absolute position as a quadrature stream when interrogated
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[03:47:35] <asah> right.
[03:48:03] <asah> going through the table in the bldc comp, this is very different sequence than my motor gave me.
[03:48:32] <asah> thankfully I have the source and can make it mine.
[03:48:58] <asah> I wonder if the other servo I have (an older still 10s) will be the same or special in its own way.
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[04:41:08] <asah> well, now they work with my fanuc…. weird.
[04:41:28] <asah> had to make a new graycode lookup for this particular servo.
[04:41:38] <asah> thank god for open source!
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[05:00:57] <Connor> pcw_home_: You got a Order! :)
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[06:44:12] <Deejay> moin
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[08:32:20] <Loetmichel> *bah* somtetimes i hate my job. first the enclosure maker botches a bunch of disk cages. then the milling company dose the same wiht the back plates. then the painter forgets to leave out some places. then the depainter lets all steel parts rust and the aluminium body corroded... so the enclosure maker makes 15 new pc cases til friday.. and we will have to work the weekend to put them
[08:32:20] <Loetmichel> togehter... the delivery deadline was last thursday, and i theoretically have holidy today + 2 weeks... :-(
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[09:42:11] <automata> hi
[09:42:41] <automata> does anyone have experience with homing using encoder index pulse?
[09:42:58] <automata> is there some configuration available that utilizes that?
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> *sigh* got an moile pc box... ordered with 4 hhd frames , 2 with 1tb disks and a raid5 controller...
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> tried to start it: no disks?
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> looked again: the idiots have plugged the 4 cages on the mainboard sata ports...
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> <- unscrewing 2 dozen case scews, mending that problem...
[09:44:33] <Loetmichel> [*facepalm*]
[09:45:08] <archivist> automata, I think there are some on the wiki/in the manual
[09:46:57] <automata> i tried the manual and wiki
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[09:48:42] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: any thoughts on parallel bits for milling plastic?
[09:48:55] <kfoltman> could be a decent approximation to single flute I suppose
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[09:51:36] <automata> found this example with a mesa card that supposedly uses index homing with Y axis: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/by_interface/mesa/hm2-servo/hm2-servo.hal;h=fdddc0817de2c6fe13af3190bb777ccd4b32fbbd;hb=refs/heads/2.6
[09:51:40] <automata> going to try it out..
[09:52:05] <archivist> I found this in 2.4 docs http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_homing.html
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[10:02:49] <archivist> barn find http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HURCO-KMB1-CNC-MILLING-MACHINE-/151411833540
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[10:07:37] <Loetmichel> parallel bits?
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[10:17:05] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/271560850243
[10:19:29] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: my thinking was that it might provide more space for chip clearance and less risk of overheating and goo accumulation
[10:21:18] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: halved bits are not good for smearing plasitcs
[10:21:31] <Loetmichel> they are better for hard smaterials
[10:22:23] <Loetmichel> for plastifcs these are best: http://www.sorotec.de/shop/index.php/cat/c53_1-Schneider-1-Schneider.html
[10:22:40] <kfoltman> single-flute?
[10:23:15] <Loetmichel> single flute
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[10:24:44] <kfoltman> Haven't found the crayon versions of these yet
[10:25:07] <Loetmichel> crayon?
[10:26:04] <kfoltman> As in, cheap low quality toy versions for n00bs who break 5 bits before making a good version of a single item (I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean)
[10:26:26] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[10:26:32] <Loetmichel> these ARE the crayon version
[10:26:39] <Loetmichel> the sorotec bits
[10:27:43] <kfoltman> I buy the <1 euro Chinese ones, they get dull rather quickly, but they rarely get to that stage anyway ;)
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[10:27:58] <kfoltman> well, for PCBs, I could probably start getting good ones
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[10:30:03] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: you got Cambam license recently, right?
[10:30:19] <Loetmichel> i did
[10:30:27] <Loetmichel> but have NO idea how to use it
[10:30:31] <kfoltman> ???
[10:30:42] <kfoltman> Cambam or the license?
[10:30:47] <Loetmichel> i used coreldraw8 and Bocnc til now
[10:31:00] <Loetmichel> no time to leearn how to use cambam
[10:31:05] <kfoltman> I use draftsight and cambam (evaluation copy), seems easy enough
[10:31:16] <kfoltman> well, except curves
[10:31:50] <kfoltman> export dxf, click objects you want milled, create an operation
[10:32:27] <kfoltman> the interface is a bit finicky, which is why I haven't decided whether to buy it yet
[10:33:24] <Loetmichel> coreldraw has its drwbacks with dxf
[10:33:33] <Loetmichel> have to buy a new cad first
[10:35:13] <kfoltman> free draftsight version might be adequate, it's not TOO bad
[10:36:28] <kfoltman> or: I like it because I can work with coordinates
[10:37:14] <kfoltman> which is why I don't use inkscape/jscut
[10:37:51] <kfoltman> also, you can make drawings from scratch in cambam itself, or - say - import gerbers
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[15:13:08] <Lathe_newbie> is it possible, to use encoders with serial interface directly with linuxcnc?
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[15:14:26] <pcw_home_> some types are supported
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[15:22:40] <kfoltman> encoders with serial interface?
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[15:27:42] <pcw_home_> most newer high performance encoders use serial interfaces
[15:29:34] <archivist> how does one square higer performance with the latency of a serial word :)
[15:29:46] <ssi> :)
[15:29:56] <JT-Shop> :)
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[15:31:12] * FinboySlick replies through a serial line.
[15:32:02] <archivist> dit dit dah dah dit dit
[15:32:40] <ssi> hm if that's one char, I think it's one of the punctuations which I could never remember :)
[15:33:37] <ssi> __..__ is comma... trying to find ..__.. :P
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[15:34:34] <ssi> don't see it :)
[15:34:58] <Loetmichel> could be IMI
[15:35:04] <ssi> or UD
[15:35:06] <ssi> all in the spacing
[15:35:07] <ssi> heheh
[15:35:44] * archivist was guessing
[15:35:50] <ssi> guess better!
[15:36:17] <Loetmichel> or EATI
[15:36:26] <ssi> :D
[15:36:38] <archivist> I wonder if the two morse inventors were related
[15:37:23] <ssi> morse is a skill I was actually reasonably competent at once upon a time
[15:37:27] <ssi> but not anymore :P
[15:37:40] <archivist> I never took the exam
[15:38:00] <Loetmichel> me neither
[15:38:21] <ssi> I did :P
[15:38:21] <ssi> http://www.radioreference.com/apps/ham/callsign/N4ML
[15:38:33] <Loetmichel> but i could give out about 5wpm and hear about 3wpm oncve
[15:38:36] <Loetmichel> once
[15:38:51] <Loetmichel> ... about 25 years ago ;-)
[15:39:15] <archivist> I let my license lapse G8NND
[15:39:34] <ssi> i reupped mine a couple years ago for funsies
[15:39:40] <Loetmichel> archivist. waht you meant was possibly ... --- ...
[15:40:30] <archivist> nah, you lot failed on the checksum :)
[15:41:07] <ssi> haaa
[15:41:25] <Loetmichel> or more fitting: .. .-.. .. --- -
[15:41:28] <Loetmichel> :-)
[15:41:56] <pcw_home_> archivist: the bit rates tend to be high (and you run out of quadrature bandwidth at high resolutions)
[15:41:56] <Loetmichel> funny, i can still read that dooted lines
[15:41:57] <pcw_home_> I have a 16M count encoder on my desk, that would require 200 MHz quadrature frequencies at 3000 RPM
[15:42:37] <ssi> Loetmichel: here's a silly thing I did with my laser last week: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxXKXHtIIAAZJ_n.jpg:large
[15:42:51] <Loetmichel> funny thing: that code is the same in english and german ;-9
[15:43:23] <Loetmichel> ssi: looks a bit blackened at the edges ;-)
[15:43:51] <ssi> perhaps a bit... I'm still working with a too-short lens
[15:43:57] <ssi> china is taking its sweet time
[15:44:11] <FinboySlick> ssi: How thick is that?
[15:44:28] <ssi> 1/2"
[15:44:42] <Connor> pcw_home_: Placed my order for a 5i25 + 7i76 combo + din clips last last! :)
[15:44:46] <FinboySlick> Not bad considering.
[15:44:49] <ssi> yeah
[15:45:01] <FinboySlick> speaker cabinet?
[15:45:03] <ssi> yep
[15:45:34] <pcw_home_> Connor: upgrading from a parallel port or a new project?
[15:45:44] <Connor> upgrading from pport
[15:46:16] <pcw_home_> got some hal file work then...
[15:46:31] <FinboySlick> ssi: I might have added a joint on the long edges of the bottom.
[15:46:38] <ssi> Connor: is this your first jump into mesa?
[15:46:48] <ssi> FinboySlick: yea I considered it, but the cleat at the back makes it pretty rigid
[15:47:30] <Connor> I'll have questions I'm sure.. I have a C10 BOB, a charge pump and C41 PWM Speed Control board (with relays)
[15:47:52] <Connor> ssi: Yes / No. I've helped extensively on Pete's machine.. so, not my first time messing with it.
[15:48:00] <Connor> but, first time owning my own.
[15:48:29] <FinboySlick> ssi: Been shopping audio lately. Trying to find a small amp/receiver that accepts hdmi mpcm and outputs to 6 or 8 channels.
[15:48:53] <ssi> FinboySlick: I haven't kept up with it at all on that end of the spectrum
[15:49:17] <ssi> my stuff is all homebuilt low-power single-ended big bottle tube amps and full-range high sensitivity speakers
[15:49:31] <FinboySlick> ssi With video cards handling audio nowadays, it'd be nice to have computer speakers that tap into it.
[15:49:39] <ssi> yeah
[15:50:10] <FinboySlick> It'd keep all the analog stuff out of the noisy PC case too.
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[15:51:44] <ssi> ugh I have to start making some very hard decisions about transponders
[15:51:45] <FinboySlick> I wonder if there's a way to tap into the audio pins without having to process all the video stuff too. HDCP must be getting in the way of that.
[15:52:04] <__rob> hello
[15:52:48] <ssi> not quite what you want, but in the right direction
[15:52:48] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-2CH-5-1CH-AUDIO-EXTRACTOR-Analog-L-R-RCA-or-Optical-Converter-De-Embedder-/191128935060?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2c802c1a94
[15:53:03] <__rob> was hoping someone might be able to help me out. I've been looking at trying to get a much higher resolution than a stepper, all I have found is very expensive harmonic gearboxes
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[15:53:26] <ssi> __rob: I think most people build their own belt reductions
[15:53:33] <__rob> however, I was looking at DC motors with optical encoders, specifically these http://robokitsworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=380
[15:53:33] <ssi> I haven't found an inexpensive prebuilt reduction
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[15:54:02] <__rob> the main thing is that I know where the motor is, rather then where its meant to be, ideally these would be the same
[15:54:05] <Connor> pcw_home_: I'm using the PWM board for speed control. It has 2 relays. one for dir and one enble. and a KBCC-125R (http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbcc_manual.pdf)
[15:54:22] <__rob> was wondering how easy it is to 'single step' a dc motor like this
[15:54:44] <ssi> if you mean in terms of stepping the axis some fixed distance, it's plenty easy
[15:54:56] <gene78> silly Q: since when is an encoder.N.position a float, isn't it an s_32?
[15:54:58] <ssi> if you mean "stepping" like you'd step a stepper motor, that's a bit different
[15:55:05] <__rob> yea, so I am wondering if its just as easy as a short pwm pulse
[15:55:15] <ssi> you'd need to run it as a servo
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[15:55:31] <__rob> when you say run it as a servo, you just mean a control loop ?
[15:55:39] <__rob> It'll be hooked up to an fpga for that
[15:55:39] <ssi> meaning either you have an amplifier to run the motor and encoder feedback into linuxcnc via a mesa card or similar, and you close the loop in linuxcnc
[15:55:57] <Connor> pcw_home_: the KBCC-125R is designed to use a "switch" to handle the direction.. Does that mean I'll need a auxiliary relay like the PMW board I'm currently using ?
[15:55:59] <ssi> or you use something like a gecko 201v drive which drives a servo and gives you a step/dir interface
[15:56:04] <ssi> but I prefer the former
[15:56:11] <__rob> well I am happy to do that all myself
[15:56:24] <__rob> in the fpga, if its simple varying a pwm duty cycle
[15:56:31] <ssi> a dc motor with an encoder on it is just a servo
[15:56:37] <pcw_home_> Yes you will need a relay to switch direction
[15:56:45] <Connor> ok. :(
[15:57:02] <ssi> Connor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5V-Two-2-Channel-Relay-Module-With-optocoupler-For-PIC-AVR-DSP-ARM-Arduino-/181026509345?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a26055221
[15:57:08] <ssi> want me to bring you one?
[15:57:12] <ssi> I have a pile of them
[15:57:22] <__rob> other question was the holding torque of a dc motor, surely there is none, or can I just pulse the motor with a short duty cycle
[15:57:25] <Connor> I think I need 12v ones..
[15:57:47] <ssi> yeah 12v would be better
[15:57:51] <ssi> I think the ones I have are all 5v
[15:57:53] <ssi> I have some 8 channel 12v ones
[15:57:54] <Connor> But sure.. bring some.. I'm not sure exactly what I'll be doing just yet.
[15:57:55] <ssi> but only a couple
[15:58:04] <ssi> the other problem with these is they take active low signals
[15:58:08] <ssi> and the 7i76 is all active high
[15:58:11] <ssi> so I had to hack them up
[15:58:42] <Connor> isn't that just a matter of applying 5v to the the module.. and the gnd goes to the 7i76 ?
[15:58:44] <pcw_home_> other than friction, holding torque on a servo is all dynamic (provide by the drive current)
[15:59:05] <ssi> no, it's not that easy
[15:59:09] <__rob> right, so i just need to tune the pwm duty cycle for hold ?
[15:59:14] <pcw_home_> just use bare relays, the 7I76 will drive them directly
[15:59:35] <Connor> yea, there's that too. I keep forgetting. :)
[15:59:41] <pcw_home_> no, you need a PID loop holding position
[16:00:01] <Connor> I need to find some DIN rail too.
[16:00:13] <Connor> going to be redoing lots of stuff in my enclosure..
[16:00:23] <__rob> pcw_home_: how does that work ?
[16:00:43] <Connor> okay.. switching to ipad and going back to bed..Pinched nerve in neck / shoulder.. hard to type on keyboard..
[16:00:52] <__rob> pcw_home_: so when i reach my position, and the fpga is happy that target = actual, surely I just keep it on a low current so it holds
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[16:01:15] <ssi> servos are never "in position"
[16:01:17] <zeeshan> yay
[16:01:22] <ssi> they're always fighting to be as close to position as possible
[16:01:22] <zeeshan> got my image processing script to work
[16:01:23] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/0lYeK
[16:01:46] <pcw_home_> only current needed is to hold position against external forces
[16:01:47] <__rob> so the servo is jittering ?
[16:02:10] <ssi> not necessarily
[16:02:17] <zeeshan> rob
[16:02:25] <zeeshan> its a feedback loop,
[16:02:29] <ssi> but if you push on the axis, the control loop will ramp up the current to hold against you
[16:02:36] <zeeshan> so if an external force is detected, it'll fight back :p
[16:02:55] <zeeshan> basically you need to cause a disturbance
[16:02:58] <__rob> right, well I will be implementing the control loop with the above motor, I don't necessarily want that
[16:02:58] <zeeshan> to get feedback.
[16:03:10] <__rob> I just want it to reach a position, when its there
[16:03:11] <__rob> hold
[16:03:26] <pcw_home_> yes expect no better than 2 -3 encoder counts of error when moving. Jittering can be eliminated by throwing away resolution (deadband)
[16:03:28] <__rob> if something heavier then the default load moves it, thats find
[16:03:30] <__rob> fine
[16:03:47] <__rob> but the default load is unlikely to ever be touched
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[16:04:24] <__rob> Ideally there will be enough friction that it will hold without current
[16:04:35] <zeeshan> __rob: what are you trying to do?
[16:05:30] <__rob> hold a mirror on the servo
[16:05:38] <__rob> accurately to within 0.2 degrees
[16:05:58] <pcw_home_> if its a small angle use a worm drive with a sector gear with a anti-backlash spring
[16:05:58] <__rob> which, looking at the motor I pasted should be possible
[16:06:18] <ssi> servo control really isn't hard
[16:06:18] <zeeshan> i think you'll be good with a servo easily :P
[16:06:29] <ssi> it's going to be harder to cobble together some non-standard way of doing it
[16:06:45] <__rob> ok, in which case if its geared, then a stepper might be better
[16:06:51] <zeeshan> im sure you can tune it so it doesn't oscillate more than .2 degrees
[16:06:54] <__rob> I'm trying to remove any potential for bashlash
[16:07:07] <zeeshan> by having a high resolution encoder
[16:07:11] <__rob> and the real position is more important than whether its reached the target
[16:07:16] <pcw_home_> simpler for tiny motors certainly
[16:07:37] <zeeshan> at the end of the day, are you planning to move this mirrors really fast?
[16:07:42] <__rob> not really
[16:07:49] <__rob> just accurately
[16:07:49] <zeeshan> then you should really just be using a stepper
[16:08:00] <__rob> the angle is important so I can use it later
[16:08:08] <ssi> a stepper with a belt reduction would be fine
[16:08:16] <__rob> but if its 'off' as I think its and X and its actually at Y thats a problem
[16:08:37] <ssi> well you'd need a 9:1 reduction, which might have to be 2 stage
[16:08:37] <__rob> with an encoder, the fedback position is better then a geared system with an opne loop where I have to assume its right
[16:08:54] <zeeshan> it's really no longer an assumption
[16:08:59] <zeeshan> if you've selected the correct stepper size
[16:09:07] <__rob> I have some nema 8 ones
[16:09:17] <__rob> and also some T.25 timing pulleys
[16:09:19] <zeeshan> honestly, i think for your application
[16:09:24] <zeeshan> since you need <0.2 degrees
[16:09:34] <zeeshan> a servo with a high resolution encoder could probably be direct driven
[16:09:41] <zeeshan> then messing around with gearing and nonsense with a stepper
[16:09:49] <__rob> yea, this was the conclusion I was coming too
[16:10:07] <zeeshan> unless you can find 0.2 degree stepping steppers :)
[16:10:12] <ssi> what about RC servos?
[16:10:14] <pcw_home_> yes but you need a better encoder for .2 degree accuracy
[16:10:21] <ssi> can you get them with tight enough precision?
[16:10:27] <__rob> RC servos are all on pots
[16:10:28] <kfoltman> RC servo and precision???
[16:10:29] <__rob> rather then optical
[16:10:42] <pcw_home_> and better encoders in small sizes are rare
[16:10:48] <kfoltman> ssi: those are not even very linear
[16:10:50] <__rob> anything on my ground or supply and its going to be nonsense
[16:10:53] <ssi> ok ok
[16:10:55] <ssi> just a thought :)
[16:11:02] <zeeshan> you prolly need some nano etched encoder discs
[16:11:03] <zeeshan> lol
[16:11:11] <__rob> the best steppers are from Orientel motors with Harmonic gearboxes
[16:11:25] <zeeshan> ssi cut any metal?!?! :D
[16:11:25] <ssi> 0.9 degree steppers are easy to get
[16:11:26] <__rob> but they want $85 for the stepper (fine) but $750 with their 2 arcmin gearbox
[16:11:38] <ssi> zeeshan: no; got and brilliant ideas on how to do it? :(
[16:11:47] <zeeshan> i thought you were going to try a different lens
[16:11:51] <ssi> I did
[16:11:53] <__rob> http://catalog.orientalmotor.com/keyword/stepping-motors--1068/pk-series-5-phase-stepping-motors?&categid=1068&prodid=3001062&key=product&keycateg=1068&keyprod=3001062&SchType=2&keyword=PK51_HG_Geared
[16:11:55] <__rob> these ones
[16:12:03] <zeeshan> paint your metal black
[16:12:04] <zeeshan> :D
[16:12:12] <ssi> I might need some kind of coating
[16:12:15] <ssi> but it won't be paint
[16:12:17] <__rob> rather nice motors
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[16:12:23] <__rob> and gearboxes
[16:12:26] <Connor_iPad> Looking into dynamexil servos. For robotics. Some use high end optical or magnetic encoders.
[16:12:35] <__rob> but If I can get the same result with a DC motor..
[16:12:46] <zeeshan> .36 degree steppers
[16:12:48] <zeeshan> dammmn.
[16:12:54] <zeeshan> i wonder what they're doing in the gear box to remove backlash
[16:13:03] <pcw_home_> if its just moving a mirror add a spring to take up backlash (and map out screw errors if need be)
[16:14:05] <pcw_home_> then any motor/encode/stepper will work
[16:14:17] <__rob> ye, well no need for a spring if its direct drive
[16:14:24] <__rob> on a high res encoder/dc motor
[16:14:37] <__rob> unless theres backlash in the motor
[16:15:39] <zeeshan> just move it manually
[16:15:42] <zeeshan> call it a day
[16:16:20] <pcw_home_> it will be hard to find a small encoder with enough resolution (gearing it down give you all the resolution you need)
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[16:16:50] <zeeshan> the guy with that mill
[16:16:52] <zeeshan> responded back!
[16:16:59] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-image.html?adId=1011891670&image=0&enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[16:17:02] <__rob> http://robokitsworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=380
[16:17:07] <__rob> thats ones pretty small pcw_home_
[16:18:18] <pcw_home_> not enough resolution (~0.25 degrees is one count)
[16:19:02] <pcw_home_> unless thats a 1334 line encoder
[16:19:15] <ssi> zeeshan: how manys
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[16:30:10] <ssi> sweet, I think my 3" lens will arrive today
[16:30:16] <ssi> ordered it on 9/4 :P
[16:31:12] <SpeedEvil> the original one is what FL?
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[16:34:40] <archivist> strange idea of bargain price for broken http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proxxon-MF70-cnc-mill-/321524066635
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[16:36:12] <SpeedEvil> I think hte idea is that he's selling a CNC mill kit + the mill for the same price as themill
[16:36:22] <SpeedEvil> Which would be a bargain
[16:36:35] <SpeedEvil> If the kit was reasonaby priced of course and actually sanely installed
[16:37:14] <zeeshan> ssi
[16:37:15] <zeeshan> FUCK YES
[16:37:22] <zeeshan> i thjink have a cnc mill for a retrofit
[16:37:31] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/london/excello-cnc/1011891670?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[16:37:32] <zeeshan> $1200
[16:37:37] <zeeshan> has ball screws
[16:37:40] <zeeshan> dc servos already
[16:37:43] <zeeshan> missing a spindle motor
[16:37:51] <zeeshan> tight on the Axis (no slop)
[16:38:05] <Rab> zeeshan, your car will have to live outside.
[16:38:06] <zeeshan> according to the guy they were going to retrofit it, but instead bought a bed mill
[16:38:13] <zeeshan> rab, no im going to get rid of my bridgeport
[16:38:17] <zeeshan> im putting it up for sale right now
[16:39:24] <zeeshan> this is really a no brainer man
[16:39:33] <zeeshan> i have a 2hp 3 phase motor, i need to buy a VFD
[16:39:57] <zeeshan> and i need to buy servo drives, and 5i25
[16:40:01] <zeeshan> and its pretty much good to go
[16:40:09] <archivist> and a bigger workshop
[16:40:13] <zeeshan> no need to mess around converting my bridgeport to iso30 taper
[16:40:21] <zeeshan> or running chinese ball screws on it
[16:40:29] <zeeshan> this machine weighs 4200lb
[16:40:34] <zeeshan> vs the bridgeport at 2400lb
[16:40:41] <zeeshan> and was designed for cnc
[16:41:18] <zeeshan> who do i call for machinery moving :/
[16:41:27] <zeeshan> someone who has a flatbad + a forklift on their trailer
[16:41:31] <archivist> ghostbusters
[16:41:36] <zeeshan> archivist: be serious! :{
[16:41:51] <archivist> aw
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[16:42:47] <archivist> I am just resting, putting the hobbing machine together and thinking of the cnc add on mountings
[16:42:53] <Rab> zeeshan, flatbed tow truck?
[16:43:01] <Rab> Probably want it on skids for that.
[16:43:13] <zeeshan> skids i can do
[16:43:20] <zeeshan> but the thing is the flatbed also needs to carry a forklift with it.
[16:43:24] <zeeshan> so it can unload it at my place
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[16:43:55] <Rab> Just chain it to something solid, inch the truck forward.
[16:44:06] <Rab> (This is not professional advice.)
[16:46:16] <zeeshan> haha rab
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[16:46:35] <zeeshan> i just got quoted 580$
[16:46:42] <zeeshan> to move it 100 miles away
[16:46:46] <zeeshan> including fork lift rental
[16:47:35] <Rab> zeeshan, you know the type of truck I mean, right? http://www.napervilleclassictowing.com/images/hinopopup.jpg
[16:48:02] <zeeshan> yes
[16:48:05] <zeeshan> thats how my bridgeport got moved
[16:48:10] <zeeshan> the guy tilted the thing
[16:48:20] <zeeshan> and used the weight of the machine to slide it down
[16:48:29] <zeeshan> but it was a pain in the ass cause it was on asphalt
[16:48:51] <zeeshan> its hard for them to load it onto my concrete floor
[16:48:53] <zeeshan> cause of the door
[16:49:02] <Rab> Yeah, I can imagine that.
[16:49:14] <Connor_iPad> Pipes on the ground for rollers.
[16:49:17] <zeeshan> i tried using plywood and it cracked
[16:49:25] <zeeshan> Connor_iPad: pipes are a bit scary
[16:49:32] <zeeshan> cause the driveway is tapered, so the machine wants to run away
[16:49:43] <Rab> If you have it on skids, you could chain a comealong to something solid in the house.
[16:49:51] <zeeshan> what i did last time was i put one side of it on rollers
[16:49:54] <zeeshan> and the other was on the ground
[16:50:15] <zeeshan> and then i jacked it up from the other side and maintained pressure with the jack and added another roller, slowly movedf it down
[16:50:29] <zeeshan> while maintaining pressure, and like me , my gf, a friend, and neighbour pushed it
[16:50:36] <zeeshan> till part of it was on the concrete
[16:50:46] <zeeshan> and then we put it on machine rollers that i quickly welded up
[16:50:56] <zeeshan> rab hahah i dont think thats going to work man
[16:51:02] <zeeshan> my house will prolly fall apart
[16:51:34] <Rab> Run the chain through the house to the nearest decent tree.
[16:51:35] <Connor_iPad> Hook a comalong to it.
[16:51:48] <zeeshan> i can prolly use my mitusbishi eclipse
[16:51:52] <zeeshan> as an anchor
[16:52:21] <Rab> Haha, I doubt your Eclipse will anchor 4,200lbs.
[16:52:38] <zeeshan> it's gotta serve some purpose
[16:52:43] <zeeshan> that things been blown up collecting rust
[16:52:49] <zeeshan> it better serve as an anchor :D
[16:53:11] * SpeedEvil wishes anchoring was simple.
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[16:53:26] <roycroft> groovy
[16:53:34] <roycroft> it looks like my ball screws will arrive today
[16:53:36] <SpeedEvil> It would be really nice if you could just easily anchor and get a hundred ton anchor point you could pull on
[16:54:36] <zeeshan> maybe the guy im going to pick up the machine from
[16:54:38] <zeeshan> might know someone
[16:54:56] <zeeshan> they have lots of machinery, so im sure they have people in mind to use
[16:55:17] <roycroft> if it's not heavy enough to use as an anchor, fill it with concrete
[16:55:27] <zeeshan> ROFL roycroft
[16:55:30] <zeeshan> poor eclipse.
[16:55:38] <zeeshan> goes from car to a concrete anchor
[16:55:42] <roycroft> i'm sure it would make a good form
[16:55:52] <roycroft> unless the rust is too bad
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[16:56:01] <zeeshan> the only reason its sitting on my driveway is because i want to use it's engine to make a generator
[16:56:03] <zeeshan> at some point
[16:56:16] <roycroft> don't fill the engine compartment with concrete then
[16:56:25] <roycroft> just the interior and the trunk
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[17:02:56] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: I've considered some bags of sand for that.
[17:03:21] <jdh> rent a uhaul. park it on teh back side of teh house.
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[17:03:24] <SpeedEvil> ~10 tons of sand in 25kg bags inside large 800kg sacks with lifting hooks would make a reasonabe anchor
[17:03:46] <roycroft> that would do the job
[17:03:51] <roycroft> concrete can be more satisfying though
[17:03:55] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1019057627&posted=true&adActivated=true&uli=true
[17:03:59] <zeeshan> i wonder if it will sell
[17:04:00] <zeeshan> :D
[17:04:44] <roycroft> if you were in or instead of on i might consider it, zeeshan
[17:04:59] <zeeshan> its a nice mill for manual work
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[17:05:10] <zeeshan> has a nice solid WEG motor and eaton VFD
[17:05:33] <roycroft> yeah, a single phase vfd makes it nice
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[17:06:05] <varesa> Hi
[17:06:09] <SpeedEvil> roycroft: or of course, if you have free water - water
[17:06:11] <zeeshan> for now im just going to move it further towards the back of the garage
[17:06:23] <zeeshan> i need to make more space :D
[17:06:42] <CaptHindsight> whats the gradient of the driveway?
[17:06:50] <zeeshan> like 10 degrees
[17:06:55] <zeeshan> maybe 15
[17:07:05] <varesa> I just got a Terco 45 CNC mill (http://www.usedmachinery.in/images/cnc_machines/vmc/MINI%20VMC-TERCO%20CNC%2045.JPG) with the controller broken
[17:07:24] <CaptHindsight> and the tilt flatbed can't back up the the garage door?
[17:07:40] <zeeshan> capt the head of the machine, even when its put sideways
[17:07:40] <varesa> So I'm thinking about making it pc based so I need atleast stepper drivers, recommendations?
[17:07:42] <zeeshan> will hit my door
[17:08:17] <zeeshan> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-servo-motor-driver/dc-servo-driver-dg4s-016035
[17:08:21] <zeeshan> are these decent servo drives?
[17:08:50] <roycroft> your asking price is not bad for what it is, zeeshan
[17:09:06] <zeeshan> roycroft: i figure someones going to negotiate
[17:09:09] <zeeshan> ill take 1800 for the mill
[17:09:15] <roycroft> yeah
[17:09:24] <roycroft> but it would cost me half that much to ship it
[17:09:35] <zeeshan> yea its not worth it if you're not local
[17:09:39] <CaptHindsight> I once picked up a bridgeport from an 80yo machinist, by the time we got to his garage with the tiltbed he had rolled out the mill onto his driveway by himself using a long bar and some 1" cold roll bars as wheels
[17:09:49] <roycroft> used bridgeports come up for sale in oregon occasionally for a decent price
[17:09:56] <roycroft> but they invariably have the stock 3-phase motor
[17:10:07] <roycroft> the single phase vfd is what makes yours intersting
[17:10:20] <CaptHindsight> he was about 120lbs and 5' 4"
[17:10:32] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: are you implying i am weak? :)
[17:10:49] <roycroft> a level driveway vs. a 10 degree inclined driveway are two entirely different things
[17:11:06] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: of course not, just that the old guys was resourceful :)
[17:11:10] <zeeshan> haha
[17:11:17] <varesa> Is the Gecko G540 a good value driver?
[17:11:25] * roycroft would rather be called weak than unresourceful
[17:12:11] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/null_zps53dbde14.jpg
[17:12:16] <zeeshan> this is how i rolled the bridgeport
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[17:14:32] <archivist> I make wooded tracks for rough ground (to level and spread the load) and use rollers
[17:14:33] <pcw_home_> zeeshan: thats a step/dir drive. for linuxcnc you are probably better off with analog input drive
[17:14:42] <zeeshan> can you recommend a good one?
[17:15:26] <pcw_home_> varesa: that Terco has servo drives, if they work theres no reason to change to steppers
[17:15:50] <zeeshan> actually
[17:15:52] <zeeshan> now that i think about it
[17:15:57] <zeeshan> im pretty sure this machine has servo drives in the cabinet
[17:16:00] <zeeshan> ill check it out tomorrow
[17:16:01] <varesa> pcw_home_: oh, I read somewhere that they were steppers, well good to know before I order anything :)
[17:16:13] <pcw_home_> AMC drives are usually a good choice (what drives does it have now?)
[17:16:18] <jdh> zeeshan: so y ou will have plenty of space to mount your stepper drives.
[17:16:26] <zeeshan> jdh: shuddap
[17:16:31] <zeeshan> i told you im going servo for the mill
[17:16:35] <zeeshan> i want the speeds
[17:16:43] <zeeshan> and it needs hardware stepping
[17:16:46] <zeeshan> 300ipm!!
[17:17:06] <zeeshan> jdh: do you wear a chain around your neck that says "servo lover"
[17:17:28] <varesa> pcw_home_: I don't know what system it has, possibly something of their own (it's original)
[17:18:52] <roycroft> i'll be using stepper motors on my new router, since i only play with toys, not real machines :P
[17:19:16] <pcw_home_> (actually i was aiming my answer at zeeshan but missed)
[17:19:29] <zeeshan> ill find out tomorrow what drives it has
[17:19:45] <pcw_home_> but in any case check what you have before making any equipment decisions
[17:19:54] <varesa> pcw_home_: you said that linux cnc is better of with analog input drive?
[17:20:09] <varesa> what kind of interface do I need between the pc and the drive?
[17:21:24] <pcw_home_> I just mean that in that case the system is full closed loop (linuxcnc knows where things are)
[17:22:58] <varesa> pcw_home_: so what kind of AMC model should I be looking for?
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[17:27:00] <pcw_home_> do you have the original drives? how old is the machine?
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[17:32:38] <pcw_home_> Actually the Terco does look like a stepper machine but there may be different models
[17:36:59] <FinboySlick> zeeshan: What's the fancy car next to your bridgeport? ;)
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[17:41:44] <jdh> roycroft: me too.
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[17:44:50] <varesa> pcw_home_: The original drives should be somewhere inside either the machine itself or the orange "controller"
[17:47:36] <pcw_home_> Yeah if its a simple step/dir machine you should be able to control it with a PC and parallel port
[17:47:37] <pcw_home_> (If the drives are old newer Gecko or Leadshine step drives would be an improvement)
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[17:53:47] <skunkworks> terco?
[17:54:57] <skunkworks> like http://electronicsam.com/images/emco/terco.JPG ?
[17:55:07] <pcw_home_> http://www.usedmachinery.in/images/cnc_machines/vmc/MINI%20VMC-TERCO%20CNC%2045.JPG
[17:55:09] <pcw_home_> is that the same as your trainer?
[17:55:29] <skunkworks> wow - no.
[17:55:37] <skunkworks> that looks a few generations newer
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[17:55:59] <skunkworks> neat!
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[18:04:54] <jdh> those look like encoders. Are they tiny steppers?
[18:05:57] <varesa> pcw_home: I think these three cards are the drives: http://imgur.com/XckhDnR
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[18:06:59] <varesa> http://imgur.com/CHcCn7J
[18:07:36] <jdh> wow, looks like I wired that.
[18:08:18] <jdh> except for the neat parts.
[18:08:30] <Jymmm> heh
[18:08:59] <Jymmm> jdh: Just wrap in split loom tubing / black tape
[18:09:10] <jdh> tie-wraps
[18:10:52] <skunkworks> jdh, mine? they are actually pretty nice steppers - mae hybrids
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[18:12:14] <jdh> they just look small. Not much scale there though.
[18:12:14] <skunkworks> jdh, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkhlpdRWREE&list=UUHk52YjGT8HryRYmJKSl-lg
[18:12:19] <skunkworks> moves it around pretty good
[18:12:24] <varesa> The interface between the controller and the machine: http://imgur.com/CHcCn7J
[18:13:52] <varesa> I'm thinking it might possible to interface to the machine through that D-connector with some kind of adapter
[18:14:31] <jdh> that table looks pretty cool moving all 3 axes
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[18:14:53] <zeeshan> skunkworks: that looks SO AWESOME
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[18:22:26] <varesa> skunkworks: are those servos or steppers?
[18:22:56] <skunkworks> varesa, steppers
[18:23:15] <varesa> skunkworks: okay
[18:23:36] <pcw_home_> _orange_ steppers
[18:24:07] <varesa> My terco 45 has similar looking motors but no labels and I was trying to figure out which ones they were
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[18:24:32] <varesa> Some of these similar models seem to have servos
[18:24:50] <varesa> Though I guess 4 wires is a stepper?
[18:25:13] <skunkworks> most likely
[18:25:17] <archivist> 4 wires usually bipolar stepper
[18:25:43] <varesa> http://imgur.com/1rmBpF5
[18:25:48] <pcw_home_> 4 wires only is a stepper (servos will generally have separate motor and encoder cables)
[18:26:31] <pcw_home_> thats a stepper (looks same as skunkworks)
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[18:27:02] <varesa> I wonder what that little pcb on the side is
[18:27:14] <skunkworks> homing?
[18:28:15] <skunkworks> or thermal
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[18:28:21] <varesa> There is a microswitch on the other side
[18:28:29] <varesa> Thermal is a good guess
[18:28:39] <varesa> http://imgur.com/VwHzsdf
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[18:30:04] <varesa> http://imgur.com/5FtyUm9
[18:37:38] <varesa> I wish I could see a similar machine working so it would be easier to figure out how the drives work
[18:39:00] <pcw_home_> there are some on youtube but no idea if the drives have been upgraded
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[18:45:26] <Gabriel__> Hello. I would like to know if LinuxCNC can be used in commercial machines.
[18:47:13] <kengu> sure it can. depends on many things
[18:48:51] <Loetmichel> i think he means license wise
[18:49:43] <Gabriel__> kengu, thank you. Loetmichel, yes, I mean to distribute it as the controller on commercial machines.
[18:50:57] <roycroft> as long as you're prepared to provide the source code upon request that's perfectly legal, gabriel__
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[18:54:23] <Gabriel__> roycroft, I can provide the source code, I can even ship it together by default, including my own patches. I have no problems with it, but I was not sure if I could even use it this way.
[18:54:52] <Gabriel__> Thank you by the information.
[18:55:45] <Gabriel__> *for*
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[18:57:06] <roycroft> the easiest thing to do in this day and age is to put a /usr/src directory on the controller's hard drive and just stick the source code there
[18:57:36] <roycroft> back in The Olden Days(tm) (pre-commercial internet) disk was expensive and uucp was slow
[18:57:43] <roycroft> so folks often did not ship the source code with their product
[18:58:26] <ssi> GOD DAMNIT WHY IS CHINA SO WORTHLESS
[18:58:32] <roycroft> the gpl allows for reasonable fees for media, so often folks would offer source code for a few dollars to cover the cost of a floppy disk and postage
[18:58:53] <roycroft> i wouldn't call owning a significant amount of the us debt "worthless" :P
[18:59:11] <roycroft> we're the ones who are worthless
[18:59:26] <roycroft> (we being usians)
[18:59:40] <ssi> maybe so, since we keep giving them money for worthless products and terrible service
[19:01:25] <Gabriel__> roycroft, I will distribute it this way. The machine is still in development, but I needed this information before studying the code in depth.
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[19:39:29] <Connor> http://vimeo.com/106152006
[19:42:01] <Connor> That thing uses standard R8 Collets!
[19:42:16] <Rab> weird
[19:42:26] <Connor> Kinda a neat looking machine.
[19:42:31] <Connor> very compact.
[19:43:15] <Connor> not too sure about the X and Y being belt driven..
[19:43:55] <Rab> Z's belt driven too, looks like a long and complex setup.
[19:44:07] <Connor> Yes, but it uses screws.
[19:44:18] <Connor> the X and Y look to be direct drive via belt..
[19:47:35] <varesa> pcw_home_: so for a 3 axis stepper machine like what drives would you recommend?
[19:47:39] <ssi> Connor: neat
[19:47:44] <varesa> something like Gecko G540?
[19:48:32] <PCW> or Leadshine MX3660
[19:49:12] <ssi> if you only need 3 axis I'd definitely try that MX3660
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[19:52:56] <motioncontrol> hi at all. one question: for enable new tp , in ini file we included again : arc_blend_enable=1 and arc-blend_fallback_enable ecc or it is enabled with default , in master ?
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[20:14:12] <varesa> PCW: do you have any idea what current those motors could be rated at?
[20:14:44] <PCW> No, skunkworks probably does though
[20:15:10] <varesa> I would have asked him if he hadn't just left
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[20:15:34] <varesa> unlike the ones in his video my motors don't have labels/plates
[20:16:09] <varesa> or atleast the X-axis motor which was the easiest to uncover didn't have
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[20:31:56] <varesa> skunkworks: do you know what current the terco steppers are rated for?
[20:34:34] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Don't judge based on this arduino clone, this is just for pricing purposes: http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/technologies/development-tools/development-tool-hardware/Pages/7005980-VNCLO-START1.aspx?IM=0 But check out the specs on the chip itself (RTOS) http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/ICs/VNC2.htm
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[20:40:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It would be slick to have a single device that not only boots the OS, but provides the CNC I/O at the same time
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[20:42:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: There is also an android thing for it too. OTG emulation to any android tablet maybe?
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[20:54:08] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:00:47] <varesa> skunkworks: ping
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[21:24:27] <nofxx> Hello .. nice chan! ain't beautiful those words together ? linux cnc
[21:24:54] <nofxx> ehhe.. anyways, was talking in #electronics about the why there's no servos on the DIY world. Only reason would be servo price?
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[21:30:50] <CaptHindsight> nofxx: I think it depends on whose DIY world you are in
[21:31:51] <nofxx> CaptHindsight, hehe, got some links? For something small, say 100x100mm router, using servos.
[21:32:01] <CaptHindsight> I'm assuming you are excluding RC servos and are talking about DC and AC servo motors
[21:33:28] <nofxx> RC servo, small ones?
[21:34:18] <nofxx> as in those MG99x
[21:34:34] <CaptHindsight> RC servos are mostly those plastic toy rotary positioners http://www.hobbypartz.com/servos.html
[21:35:32] <nofxx> but that can't move a decent head, even it's laser... 5 ~ 10kg with a spindler
[21:35:52] <CaptHindsight> http://www.orientalmotor.com/products/servo-motors/bx-series-velocity-control-servo-motors.html
[21:36:49] <CaptHindsight> no, most DIYers find use servo bargains on places like ebay
[21:36:57] <CaptHindsight> use/used
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[21:38:56] <nofxx> CaptHindsight, some small ones here http://www.orientalmotor.com/products/servo-motors/nx-series-servo-motors.html#content
[21:39:03] <nofxx> wondering how much it will go brand new
[21:39:16] <CaptHindsight> $600 and up
[21:40:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Leadshine-Closed-Loop-Hybrid-Servo-Drive-Kit-HBS57-Driver-Motor-encoder-/281430281899 ~$250 and up
[21:42:05] <nofxx> CaptHindsight, nice! thank you for all answers, appreciate
[21:42:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-400W-Digital-ac-servo-driver-AC-servo-motor-CNC-KIT-Router-Mill-Plasma-/281409681742 syas AC servo, but I'm not certain
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[21:43:19] <CaptHindsight> but I find much larger and powerful AC servos and drives for the same prices
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[21:44:24] <CaptHindsight> Allen Bradley, Parker etc are built like tanks and can last for decades if they were stored under the ocean or out in the rain
[21:44:36] <CaptHindsight> were/ were not
[21:46:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/?kw=%2Bservo%20%2Bmotors&ad=27793236126&gclid=CJXbl-mY5MACFcRzMgodBjUAXg start ~$250 for integrated drive and motor
[21:47:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.tamagawa-seiki.com/english/servo/tbl-i-mini-ac.html makes tiny 3-30W servo motors
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[21:50:50] <CaptHindsight> nofxx: another low cost source for servos are the suppliers in China that build for printers and sewing machines
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[22:00:31] <nofxx> CaptHindsight, wrote it down. Going to play with it for sure. thanks
[22:00:37] <nofxx> clearpath looks fancy
[22:00:45] <CaptHindsight> __rob: http://robokitsworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_71&products_id=376 DC Servo motor with 0.2deg resolution
[22:00:52] <nofxx> hehe friendly servos! ;)
[22:02:06] <CaptHindsight> no specs on the gearbox (backlash)
[22:02:51] <CaptHindsight> I would hope it's better than the encoder res
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[22:34:38] <Jymmm> Any suggestions where to savage PVC Film from? I only need half a sq foot or so
[22:35:03] <Jymmm> scavenge*
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[22:39:59] <CaptHindsight> packaging film is most often either oriented PVC or polyolefin
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[22:40:38] <Jymmm> YEah, I need to avoid the polyolefin is the issue =)
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[22:40:55] <CaptHindsight> do you need clear?
[22:41:03] <Jymmm> clear or white
[22:41:15] <Jymmm> I'm repairing a broken frig door shelf
[22:41:44] <Jymmm> I'm hoping it's pvc, could be ABS for all I know.
[22:42:38] <Jymmm> I just wanted to reenforce the join after cementing it back together.
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[22:57:02] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: PS is not uncommon
[22:57:19] <SpeedEvil> I cheated, and made one from wood.
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[23:01:28] * Tom_itx gives Jymmm some recycled radioactive PVC film
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[23:11:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: lick it!
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[23:19:13] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: why are you avoiding polyolefins?
[23:19:27] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: solvent weld
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[23:41:58] <zeeshan> so i saw the mill
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[23:47:21] <PCW> look better or worse close up?
[23:49:11] <zeeshan> its hard to tell
[23:49:23] <zeeshan> it's been stored in a freezer (literally a freezer)
[23:49:30] <zeeshan> so all the surfaces have rust
[23:49:39] <zeeshan> but before they stored it, they had lube sprayed all over it
[23:49:49] <zeeshan> when i was trying to clean the rust off the table
[23:49:54] <zeeshan> it'd go away with a cloth
[23:50:04] <zeeshan> but on the ways, it still had pockets of rust
[23:50:11] <zeeshan> the cat40 taper looked mint
[23:50:20] <zeeshan> i couldnt see the condition of hte ball screws
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[23:50:28] <zeeshan> he's giving me dc servos, drivers etc
[23:50:35] <zeeshan> so its a pretty complete mill
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[23:51:23] <zeeshan> http://media.exapro.com/product/2013/06/P30626055/c9916f42d051bbea1b0e1fd550e9b280/used-ex-cell-o-602-vertical-cnc-milling-machine-p30626055_2.jpg
[23:51:27] <zeeshan> its a variant of this mill
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[23:58:40] <zeeshan> i think im going to bite the bullet and buy it
[23:58:42] <zeeshan> :D
[23:59:19] <PCW> what vintage?
[23:59:26] <zeeshan> 40 calibre
[23:59:46] <PCW> looks sort of 80s to me