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[00:06:47] <toastydeath> praeconium, tbh the machining business in general is still very analog
[00:07:03] <toastydeath> but the hobby forums are probably a MUCH better bet
[00:07:11] <praeconium> Thanks
[00:07:11] <toastydeath> considering how much a real shop is going to charge you for a one-off
[00:07:21] <SpeedEvil> yeah - you can make that almost as easily with a spoke-shave and little more
[00:07:39] <praeconium> tbh I will have mine in some time but dunno when it will be :) started with 3d printer..
[00:07:40] <SpeedEvil> A router makes it pretty easy and really limits the other work you need to do
[00:07:46] <toastydeath> and i second SpeedEvil's recommendation - a couple of bucks in hand tools and not much skill will get you that
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[00:08:21] <praeconium> True.. will start with wood lathe most likely actually
[00:08:36] <SpeedEvil> A lathe is not useful for that
[00:08:58] <praeconium> For speargun no, but for first machine.. I guess its the cheapest :)
[00:10:34] <praeconium> SpeedEvil: what would You recommend?
[00:10:38] <toastydeath> wow, wood lathe is NOT what you should get straight away
[00:10:45] <toastydeath> what are you trying to DO, first
[00:11:03] <toastydeath> tools are for doing things, so the general advice goes to define your goals first
[00:11:17] <toastydeath> and develop a shop plan to suit
[00:12:20] <SpeedEvil> praeconium: A basic saw - a jigsaw or simple circular saw - a cheap router and little more will get you to that - $100ish in tools.
[00:12:31] <SpeedEvil> And it's quite doable with no powertools at all
[00:13:00] <praeconium> I have hand jigsaw
[00:13:10] <praeconium> Don't have a router though
[00:13:10] <SpeedEvil> you can whittle most of that with a knife
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[00:14:07] <praeconium> Will play a bit it I guess.. as I got a handle and mechanism
[00:17:03] <toastydeath> I'd honestly prefer to do that with hand tools
[00:18:40] <SpeedEvil> Most of that is - starting from appropriately sized lumber - literally half an hour with a good knife
[00:19:11] <praeconium> hmm..
[00:19:20] <praeconium> I have good lumber
[00:19:32] <praeconium> I just thought it would be easier with cnc
[00:20:12] <toastydeath> helllllll no
[00:20:15] <SpeedEvil> It's very much easier if you're making 1000
[00:20:22] <SpeedEvil> maybe
[00:20:47] <SpeedEvil> i could see custom very basic jigs almost enabling you turn those out as fast as cNC
[00:20:50] <toastydeath> There's a lot of set up and testing that has to go on with every cnc job
[00:21:10] <toastydeath> if i'm making a handful of parts, I almost always do it manually
[00:24:27] <toastydeath> set up one cut, make the cut on all the parts.
[00:24:32] <toastydeath> move to the next cut
[00:32:34] <SpeedEvil> CNC saws are rare - and a saw with a good fence and a skilled user can do a lot.
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[01:03:34] <praeconium> Hmm.. thanks
[01:04:55] <praeconium> I am only starting out
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[01:38:53] <toastydeath> first thing on my list when I get some space is to start hand tool woodworking
[01:39:07] <zeeshan> you must have a lot of energy
[01:39:07] <zeeshan> :P
[01:39:08] <toastydeath> there's not a lot to it, tool wise, and no crazy power or space requirements
[01:39:28] <toastydeath> haha
[01:39:38] <toastydeath> I figure since most of the dudes who do it are old, it can't be THAT rough
[01:39:45] <zeeshan> dude
[01:39:46] <toastydeath> i've done a little bit of it so far and it's pretty nice
[01:39:51] <zeeshan> hand planing looks worse than hand filing
[01:39:53] <zeeshan> hehe
[01:39:57] <toastydeath> nah, planing by hand ain't bad
[01:40:05] <toastydeath> hand filing IS a pain in the dick, yes
[01:42:10] <toastydeath> but i'm not even using a scrub plane (a roughing plane) and I can get a pretty good chunk of wood removed fairly quickly
[01:42:24] <zeeshan> like 1/16" deep?
[01:42:27] <zeeshan> or more?
[01:42:58] <toastydeath> no, much much less
[01:43:16] <toastydeath> a scrub plane will remove that kind of material
[01:43:21] <zeeshan> i thought it was like peeling an apple
[01:43:27] <zeeshan> with those blade th ings
[01:43:32] <toastydeath> sort of
[01:43:44] <toastydeath> you generally don't fuck up so badly that you've got a shitload to remove
[01:43:51] <toastydeath> hand saws get you quite close
[01:43:55] <toastydeath> and the finish isn't bad
[01:44:28] <toastydeath> and generally, with hand work, you aren't working to a dimension, you're working to fit and match
[01:44:50] <zeeshan> ah
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[01:46:14] <toastydeath> that's why dovetailing is much easier by hand
[01:46:34] <toastydeath> you cut some random dovetail-shaped bits, and just use that as a template on the part it's going to fit to
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[01:57:04] <jdh> guy here makes spearguns. mostly just saw + router
[01:59:51] <jdh> random wood shop guy would make a shit gun
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[04:26:59] <PetefromTn_andro> Damn I'm up late LOL
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[04:43:22] <tjtr33> for hal diagrams with rockhopper or DIA: esp if you use hal based control w/o linuxcnc.
[04:43:32] <tjtr33> i just used Rockhopper to diagram some old hal files after running 'halrun -I -f myhal.hal' worked well
[04:43:40] <tjtr33> BUT a hand tweaked output is better, maybe not worth the 2 hrs or so.
[04:43:51] <tjtr33> also imagebin render is poor, if you save file then open in inkscape you're back to real SVG clarity.
[04:43:57] <tjtr33> by hand using DIA and fsckd by imagebin till you save & open in inkscape
http://imagebin.ca/v/1aGl32K4XfSW.
[04:43:58] <tjtr33> straight from rockhopper to imagebin
http://imagebin.ca/v/1aGdjNqdNxOD
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[04:45:07] <tjtr33> the idea is to use diagrams to make sense of text file based wiring diagrams ( thats HAL )
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[04:47:29] <tjtr33> i used Kent Reeds notes, but didnt run linuxcnc, just set the rip env, and used halrun
[04:47:34] <tjtr33> see
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/9995
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[06:54:53] <MacGalempsy_> evening all from Arkansas
[06:55:14] -!- Deejay [Deejay!~Deejay@unaffiliated/dj9dj] has joined #linuxcnc
[06:55:23] <Deejay> moin
[06:56:30] <MacGalempsy_> how goes it Deejay?
[06:57:03] <Deejay> thanks, fine, and at your side?
[06:57:42] <MacGalempsy_> things are going very well, I think. We just moved into a new place, so still unpacking the CNC
[06:58:00] <Deejay> ah, more space for more machines? ;)
[06:58:32] <MacGalempsy_> I wish, my wife is going to school. Once the other house sells, we'll build a big shop for the toys
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[06:59:03] <MacGalempsy_> the garage is bigger, but she wants to park a car in there, can you imagine that?!
[06:59:03] <Deejay> sounds good :)
[06:59:09] <Deejay> lol
[06:59:13] <Deejay> :D
[06:59:42] <MacGalempsy_> she did not LOL when she saw my toy parked in there! hahahahaha
[07:00:04] <Deejay> hehe
[07:00:12] <MacGalempsy_> what do you got going on today?
[07:01:03] <Deejay> oh, i want to finish to wire an electrical cabinet (hope the translation is right)
[07:01:36] <MacGalempsy_> I get what you mean
[07:01:41] <Deejay> but it is sunday, so we will see ;)
[07:01:46] <MacGalempsy_> been working on IP cams
[07:01:57] <MacGalempsy_> wiring is a pain in the neck
[07:02:58] <Deejay> hihi, yeah, i think its not that bad; but it takes more time i had assumed before
[07:03:17] <Deejay> just putting a few wires together, yes, for several days now ;)
[07:04:35] <Deejay> i hope i can finish it today
[07:04:41] <Deejay> and do first test runs
[07:04:42] <MacGalempsy_> what is the cabinet for?
[07:04:53] <Deejay> see if everything goes up in smoke on first power-up ;)
[07:05:35] <Deejay> it is a controller for a self build machine (to compress some kind of straw to put in plastic bags)
[07:05:48] <Deejay> lots of hydraulic ;)
[07:05:58] <MacGalempsy_> sweet
[07:06:26] <Deejay> valves, sensors, controller, a panel for the operator with buttons and lights ;)
[07:06:27] <MacGalempsy_> so you will use linuxcnc. yes?
[07:06:48] <Deejay> nope :/ not for this purpose
[07:07:00] <Deejay> it is a completely self-made controller board
[07:07:13] <Deejay> small microcontroller and some lines of code
[07:07:58] <MacGalempsy_> sounds pretty time consuming
[07:08:35] <Deejay> oh yes, we start building the machine and all the electronics about the beginning of this year...
[07:08:52] <Deejay> nothing what you do in a few days ;)
[07:09:33] <MacGalempsy_> the machine that compressed straw is for your business or contract for someone else?
[07:09:58] <Deejay> for self-use ;)
[07:10:31] <Deejay> i am living on a farm :)
[07:10:31] <MacGalempsy_> why do you need straw put into bags?
[07:10:35] <MacGalempsy_> ah ok
[07:10:43] <MacGalempsy_> save it for winter?
[07:10:48] <Deejay> nope, for selling ;)
[07:10:55] <MacGalempsy_> even better!
[07:11:24] <Deejay> it is not normal straw (from wheat for example)
[07:11:38] <Deejay> instead, it is from Miscanthus
[07:11:54] <Deejay> widely unknown plant from asia
[07:12:08] <MacGalempsy_> it looks ornamental
[07:12:18] <Deejay> some kind of grass, about 3.5 to 4 meters heigh, lots of biomass
[07:12:26] <MacGalempsy_> I have seen this grass in gardens before
[07:12:41] <Deejay> yes, some people have it in their garden
[07:12:56] <Deejay> but we grow it in a bigger scale on our fields ;)
[07:13:06] <Deejay> lots of hectares ;)
[07:13:13] <MacGalempsy_> i get it.
[07:13:33] <Deejay> and i hope it will be easier to sell it in small, handy units
[07:13:38] <MacGalempsy_> would like to see a video of it in action after you finish it
[07:13:42] <Deejay> lets say 20-25 kg each
[07:13:45] <Deejay> hehe
[07:14:09] <MacGalempsy_> if compressed, maybe home heating in fireplace?
[07:14:38] <Deejay> you will laugh, but we are using it for heating our house ;)
[07:14:55] <MacGalempsy_> not laughing, high biomass, compressed, sounds excellent
[07:15:05] <Deejay> but uncompressed in a special heating system (which works with Miscanthus directly)
[07:15:18] <MacGalempsy_> it shows that there is a lot of research for ethanol production
[07:15:45] <Deejay> right at the moment, we sell most of the miscanthus to the horse people
[07:16:09] <Deejay> they put it instead of wheat straw in the horse boxes
[07:16:23] <MacGalempsy_> how many horses will eat 1 25kg bundle?
[07:16:32] <Deejay> no, not for eating ;)
[07:16:39] <Deejay> to put it on the ground
[07:16:43] <MacGalempsy_> oh, for shitting !
[07:16:44] <MacGalempsy_> hahah
[07:16:46] <Deejay> yeap!
[07:16:53] <Deejay> for the shit ;)
[07:16:59] <MacGalempsy_> mierda
[07:18:08] <MacGalempsy_> the web states Miscanthus produces over twice the amount of ethanol than corn
[07:18:25] <MacGalempsy_> sounds like it burns well and is rich in energy
[07:20:09] <Deejay> yes, it is some kind of low-input plant that produces high biomass
[07:20:37] <Deejay> once planted on the fields, you can harvest it every year (about twenty years long)
[07:21:02] <MacGalempsy_> just one harvest per year?
[07:21:06] <Deejay> yep
[07:21:39] <MacGalempsy_> do you have to fertalize and add carbon?
[07:22:37] <Deejay> we harvest it around April; then the plant is dry itself, suitable for storage
[07:23:36] <Deejay> we have lots of pig farmer around here, and they a happy if they can give away the slurry (pig shit)
[07:24:11] <Deejay> so we get it for free ;) once after harvest each year, we use it to fertilize our miscanthus
[07:24:15] <Deejay> thats enough
[07:25:00] <MacGalempsy_> more with the fecal matter. sounds like farming involves a lot of shit\
[07:25:07] <Deejay> yeah
[07:25:14] <Deejay> shit is fertilizer ;)
[07:25:49] <Deejay> lots of nutrient in it for the plants ;)
[07:26:01] <Deejay> though it smells bad, yeah ;)
[07:26:19] <MacGalempsy_> I worked at a waste water plant for humans while in college
[07:26:28] <MacGalempsy_> for about 1.5 years
[07:26:50] <MacGalempsy_> I cannot imagine working at a plant with settling tanks
[07:27:13] <Deejay> uh ;)
[07:27:48] <Deejay> everyday that bad smell ;)
[07:28:11] <MacGalempsy_> yeah, thats why I went into Geology instead of water management
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[07:32:21] <Deejay> :-)
[07:33:21] <Deejay> and what are you doing in Geology right now? examining minerals in rocks? search oil? ;)
[07:34:38] <MacGalempsy_> drilling horizontal oil and gas wells
[07:34:55] <Deejay> ah, so my guess was not that bad :)
[07:35:10] <MacGalempsy_> there is really only a handful of jobs :)
[07:35:22] <MacGalempsy_> rock hunter, oil hunter, or water hugger
[07:36:51] <MacGalempsy_> since the horizontal drilling started to make the US bigger than Saudi, it has been very busy
[07:37:06] <MacGalempsy_> its almost been 75 days since my last day off
[07:38:27] <Deejay> yeah, sounds like having best job opportunities for the next years ;)
[07:40:50] <MacGalempsy_> just need it to last long enough until the wife graduates medical school!
[07:41:01] <MacGalempsy_> then its time to retire to part time
[07:41:55] <Deejay> ah, more time for cnc stuff then ;)
[07:42:11] <MacGalempsy_> yes! but it needs to get done sooner
[07:42:53] <MacGalempsy_> the machine is wired up, but the programming has been difficult. the new house needs a power source for the machine and the electrician wont be here for another week
[07:43:07] <Deejay> oh
[07:43:26] <MacGalempsy_> it has been over 1 year since I worked on it. hopefully the Wizard has improved for the mesa boards ;)
[07:43:39] <Deejay> hihi
[07:44:03] <Deejay> i think there are enough guys around here that can help in case ;)
[07:44:21] <Deejay> ok, now i will have to do some other work
[07:44:35] <MacGalempsy_> have fun!
[07:44:41] <Deejay> thanks for the nice small talk
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[07:45:05] <Deejay> thanks, you too. hope to be back at the keyboard later on
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[09:29:42] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:35:31] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: have you ever had any problems with proxxon and dirt/swarf accumulation in the bearings?
[09:35:40] <Loetmichel> no
[09:35:59] <kfoltman> did you use anything to shield the vents from flying stuff?
[09:35:59] <Loetmichel> but wirth eaten bearing balls because of milling FR4
[09:36:10] <Loetmichel> or carbon fibre
[09:36:16] <kfoltman> that's what I'm doing :|
[09:36:18] <Loetmichel> the DUST finds its way in
[09:37:02] <Loetmichel> to prevent that wou would have to put air pressire on the casing ("sperrluft")
[09:37:36] <Loetmichel> which is a bit over the top for a proxxon or dremel
[09:37:55] <Loetmichel> i simply have a bunch of bearings here to change them when worn out
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[09:38:57] <kfoltman> I've read some tutorial how to do it on the internet, and it gave me a headache ;) seems a bit finicky/easy to screw up
[09:39:17] <kfoltman> anyway, I'll worry about it when it happens
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[09:39:40] <kfoltman> still, about 4 working PCBs last week, I'm quite happy :)
[09:39:50] <Loetmichel> hihi
[09:40:34] <Loetmichel> another reason to switch to a watercooled Chinese spindle
[09:40:41] <kfoltman> yes, I almost bought it already
[09:41:03] <Loetmichel> (besides the better power and concentricity and quieter run ;-)
[09:41:17] <kfoltman> it's just that we have plenty of expenses these days, and I don't want to overspend on CNC yet
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[09:42:57] <kfoltman> swappable tool-heads would be nice, but I didn't come up with a workable design yet
[09:43:20] <Loetmichel> you mean like in "auto tool changer"?
[09:43:26] <Loetmichel> thats a bit expensive ;-)
[09:43:38] <kfoltman> nonono :)
[09:44:03] <kfoltman> just being able to 'plug' different modules to the Z axis - the Chinese spindle or the proxxon or, say, a 3d printer head
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[09:44:28] <Loetmichel> ah
[09:44:38] <Loetmichel> is that a problem?
[09:44:53] <Loetmichel> just use a clamp for the biggest tool
[09:45:07] <Loetmichel> i.e the 80mm 800W watercooled spindle
[09:45:17] <kfoltman> and mill an adapter?
[09:45:22] <kfoltman> 80mm->20mm
[09:45:25] <Loetmichel> and then make sleeves for the other tools to meet the 80mm
[09:46:27] <Loetmichel> you can put some filters in the "sleeve" for the proxxon, also ;-)
[09:46:38] <Loetmichel> if you make it as a tube
[09:46:51] <Loetmichel> dust filters
[09:47:03] <kfoltman> as a tube? how? (without using a lathe, of course)
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[09:47:35] <Loetmichel> btw: the proxxon sucks air in at the cable end, so the filters have to be tehre, not at the business end air grills
[09:47:55] <Loetmichel> using a ready made tube that is bolted to the adapter for example
[09:47:56] <kfoltman> that makes it easier
[09:48:08] <Loetmichel> can even be PMMA or stuff
[09:48:15] <kfoltman> PMMA :/
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[09:51:18] <kfoltman> anyway, filter at the top is a good idea - I only noticed that the bottom vent only blows air through the left part of the vent, but didn't notice that it's the upper vents that are for sucking air
[09:54:23] <kfoltman> have you used the 'parallel' bits with plastic?
[09:56:11] <kfoltman> I bought a bunch of those (the cheapo ones) hoping to avoid issues with goo accumulation that I'm having with spiral bits when milling any thermoplastics
[09:56:32] <kfoltman> they haven't arrived yet though
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[14:11:12] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SECOND-HAND-1992-VOLMMER-HMS-U15-PLANER-IRON-GRINDING-MACHINE-/181494366581?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item2a41e84175 Is this for surfacing large plates?
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[15:32:14] <archivist> ew ebay sort of working again, bad outage today
[15:34:10] <archivist> SpeedEvil, might be for making the machines themselves (any flat cast iron item), odd that it is in woodworking
[15:37:00] <CaptHindsight> the misplaced listings are often the best deals
[15:38:09] <CaptHindsight> probably only second to typos
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[15:45:01] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:45:09] * SpeedEvil stabs ebay for removing wildcards.
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[15:45:38] <SpeedEvil> However I note that I am not even sure I would use such a machine even once if I got it free and it was installed free
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[15:48:30] <archivist> cylinder head grinding, a job you can do from the garage at home....just
[15:50:27] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ritter-Horizontal-Machining-Center-/231310103682 $2,000
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[15:53:02] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kaltenbach-steel-and-aluminium-cold-cut-saw-400mm-blade-unused-for-3-years-/141405918554
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[15:54:57] <Tom_itx> painted a nice rust color...
[15:55:10] <jdh> what is a cold cut saw?
[15:55:48] <archivist> not a gas axe
[15:56:18] <CaptHindsight> that's a red oxide "treatment"
[15:56:37] <archivist> it will clean easily
[15:57:48] <CaptHindsight> up stroking blade
[15:59:12] <archivist> a better cut than a bandsaw
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[17:08:40] <zbychuk> Hi. Did anyone of you a Latecy Test on Asrock Q1900B-ITX motherboard?
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[17:09:36] <zbychuk> I, am thinking about software stepping on than hardware.
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[17:45:52] <zeeshan> anyone know what are these:
[17:45:57] <zeeshan> archivist i know you know
[17:46:01] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTc1WDEwMjQ=/z/jZcAAOSw-jhUENWz/$_20.JPG
[17:46:08] <zeeshan> above the long 12" rule
[17:46:19] <zeeshan> left of the radius gauges
[17:46:23] <zeeshan> its a brown box and red box
[17:46:26] <zeeshan> er red pouch
[17:46:31] <zeeshan> it looks like some sort of wiggler
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[17:47:47] <archivist> so google wiggler then!
[17:48:10] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/1-Precision-Measuring-Tools/11-Precision-Hand-Tools/1116-Precision-Shop-Tools/111603-Edge-and-Center-Finders/S828HZ
[17:48:11] <zeeshan> looks like that
[17:48:43] * archivist assumes somebody has been out spending moneys again
[17:48:48] <zeeshan> no
[17:48:56] <archivist> stole it?
[17:48:56] <zeeshan> i want to buy that 12" scale
[17:49:01] <zeeshan> i dont have one
[17:49:05] <zeeshan> but i was thinking of buying some other stuff too :P
[17:50:23] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-business-industrial/oakville-halton-region/cmm-mitutoyo/1003617410?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[17:50:32] <zeeshan> damn
[17:50:32] <zeeshan> that'd be cool to own
[17:50:50] <jdh> buy it.
[17:51:04] <zeeshan> i'd rather spend 6k on cnc mill
[17:51:04] <zeeshan> :)
[17:51:16] <archivist> make a cmm
[17:53:34] <archivist> I want one of the camera types for small stuff
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[17:55:03] <SpeedEvil> cmm?
[17:55:17] <SpeedEvil> I want a micromanipulator.
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[17:56:17] <archivist> I used part of a manipulator for my homebrew measuring machine
[17:56:19] <SpeedEvil> Something with a couple of clamps on 'arms' articulated like a human at 1:100 or so would be awesome
[17:57:10] <archivist> I the manipulator ars are someplace in a junk box
[17:57:46] <archivist> variable division of movement
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[17:59:29] <SpeedEvil> Well - yes.
[17:59:41] <SpeedEvil> But at some point, the 'hand' scales get broken
[18:00:54] <SpeedEvil> That is - if your hand analog is ~1/20th of your reach - it's more-or-less natural
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[18:06:19] <archivist> I tend to use a stage with micrometers
[18:11:27] <archivist> just been for a search, awol at the moment
[18:12:32] <SpeedEvil> archivist: I'd love something that lets me easily tie knots in 10um wire - say
[18:13:34] <archivist> I think what I have was more for die welding so no grippers or much rotation
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[18:25:15] <zeeshan> archivist: how do you get your camera
[18:25:15] <zeeshan> aligned with the centerline of your lathe spindle
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[18:25:42] <zeeshan> so you know the tool's plane and the plane of the cam are parallel
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[18:26:25] <archivist> zeeshan, I dont, because I have no camera on anything at the moment, because I could see all the problems and gave up
[18:27:07] <zeeshan> well we use cameras to measure strain
[18:27:10] <zeeshan> and its all about calibration
[18:27:39] <zeeshan> if the camera is at an angressive angle, we were using a template that was flat against what we were measuring
[18:27:52] <zeeshan> with a bunch of circles o nit
[18:28:09] <zeeshan> the circles appear as ovals when there is an agressive angle
[18:28:21] <zeeshan> so maybe you keep adjusting the camera in fine movements
[18:28:25] <zeeshan> till you get a true circle? :)
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[18:28:45] <archivist> I use a microscope on the measuring thing I made it has cross hairs and calibrated axes
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[18:41:33] <archivist> so manipulator base(x y and rotation with travelling microscope on top with has X focus and angle measuring cross hairs
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=travelling+microscope
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[20:39:20] <Connor> PetefromTn_: You around ?
[20:39:29] <PetefromTn_> yup
[20:42:24] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:00:05] <MacGalempsy> hello
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