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[00:00:41] <Tom_itx> those aren't timing belts are they?
[00:01:37] <anarchos2_> no it's a vbelt
[00:01:48] <Tom_itx> hope you got extra belts
[00:02:47] <anarchos2_> i did not but am actually looking for a good place to order some as we speak
[00:02:59] <Tom_itx> sewing machine shops
[00:03:19] <anarchos2_> would all 5m355 belts be about the same?
[00:03:48] <anarchos2_> there's lots of Gates brand ones out there for sale, the Polymax ones all seem to be from over seas :P
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[00:10:04] <roycroft> so, folks, if i'm going to buy some ball screws, is there a good source of information about the various manufacturers, comparing them?
[00:10:41] <roycroft> the stuff being peddled on ebay tends not to have a lot of good specifications, other than length and mounting
[00:11:01] <roycroft> notable things like precision and backlash are sorely missing
[00:12:04] <Tom_itx> rolled vs ground
[00:12:17] <roycroft> yes, and they generally don't specify that
[00:12:39] <Tom_itx> if it's cheap it's likely rolled
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[00:15:29] <roycroft> here's a typical example of what i'm finding:
[00:15:32] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/me3olvn
[00:15:58] <roycroft> i don't know if that's considered cheap or not
[00:16:12] <roycroft> ~US$200 shipped for a 25mmx1400mm ball screw
[00:16:27] <Tom_itx> what's it going on?
[00:16:31] <roycroft> a cnc router
[00:16:37] <Tom_itx> that's a fairly good size ballscrew
[00:16:41] <Tom_itx> 1"
[00:16:42] <roycroft> i want to be able to hold 0.005"
[00:16:46] <roycroft> yes
[00:17:04] <roycroft> i'd like to be able to move fast
[00:17:05] <Tom_itx> i don't see why any ballscrew couldn't do that
[00:17:53] <roycroft> so that particular one is described as "anti-backlash"
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[00:18:13] <roycroft> however, someone here (i forget who) said that i need a second nut to have zero backlash
[00:18:16] <Tom_itx> 55" long?
[00:18:24] <roycroft> on an acme screw that's definitely the case
[00:18:31] <roycroft> yes, about that
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[00:19:17] <roycroft> i could use a shorter one
[00:19:40] <roycroft> i want total travel to be 3' x, 2' y, and 6" z
[00:19:58] <roycroft> i'm just using that one as an example - i can order any length from that seller
[00:21:07] <roycroft> now if i really do need a second nut for zero backlash i'll have to subtract the length of that nut + whatever mounting mechanism i use from the total travel length
[00:21:24] <Tom_itx> haven't used ballscrews yet myself
[00:21:34] <roycroft> i've used machines with ball screws
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[00:21:39] <roycroft> but i've never built one
[00:21:40] <Tom_itx> well i have too
[00:21:42] <Tom_itx> same
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[00:21:52] <roycroft> i don't want to buy more than i need
[00:21:54] <Tom_itx> 3" ballscrews
[00:21:56] <roycroft> but i want to buy enough
[00:22:13] <MrHindsight> subtract the length of the carriage that you mount the nut to as well
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[00:23:31] <MrHindsight> how you mount the carriage or table on that axis will also have an effect on the range of travel
[00:24:16] <MrHindsight> you'll have some linear bearings as well, what will determine the range of travel on the bearings?
[00:25:28] <roycroft> since the ball screws are much longer than the mounts i figure that the travel range of the screws will be the determinant
[00:26:19] <roycroft> i.e. i mount the x axis nut in the middle of the gantry, and the x rails will be long enough for the nut to travel its full length
[00:26:52] <roycroft> my thought is that i should get the ball screws first, and design the rest of the machine around them
[00:27:13] <roycroft> i have zero interest in remachining the ball screws if they are not the correct length
[00:27:29] <roycroft> so designing around them makes sense to me
[00:27:38] <Tom_itx> that's likely what i'd do if i were starting a new build
[00:27:53] <Tom_itx> costs too much to order custom ballscrews
[00:27:57] <roycroft> if i were retrofitting ball screws to, say, a vertical mill, that would be a different story
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[00:28:08] <roycroft> but i'm designing/building this machine from scratch
[00:28:40] <roycroft> it's going to be a moving gantry router, btw
[00:28:57] <roycroft> i pondered briefly a moving table machine, but i just don't have the room for that
[00:30:02] <MrHindsight> http://www.pbclinear.com/SIMO-Series-Driven-Systems---Lead-Screw click the Specifications tab, you can see an example of calculating the lengths in an linear screw actuator/positioner
[00:30:29] <roycroft> thanks
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[00:31:25] <ssi> roycroft: you have to work pretty hard to build a machine that can't hold 0.005"
[00:32:02] <roycroft> if the screws have 0.003" backlash that's over half my slop right there
[00:32:54] <roycroft> if i used acme screws with single nuts i'd probably have 8-10 thousandths right there
[00:33:14] <anarchos2_> i wonder if i walked into one of the machine shops around here (one's that make bike parts and etc) if they'd sell me some metal
[00:33:29] <anarchos2_> buying metal in small quantities seems expensive as hell
[00:33:47] <Tom_itx> if they had scraps they might
[00:33:49] <roycroft> i'm fortunate to have a couple local metal suppliers
[00:34:04] <roycroft> they sell at pretty much the same price, no matter the quantity
[00:34:10] <roycroft> they do charge for cuts, though
[00:34:17] <anarchos2_> i'm fortunate that i live in a ski resort but unfortunate that there's no where to buy stuff, except online :P
[00:34:20] <roycroft> although they'll cut a 20' length of steel in half for no charge
[00:34:44] <anarchos2_> there's a little shitty very expensive hardware store, but that's it.
[00:34:48] <roycroft> and they have nice scrap bins, where they sell by the pound
[00:34:59] <anarchos2_> aye, sounds nice.
[00:35:00] <ssi> roycroft: backlash doesn't necessarily contribute to inaccuracy
[00:35:13] <roycroft> no, but it's a hassle to compensate for it
[00:35:16] <ssi> ie I can make parts to 0.001" on a bridgeport with 0.060" backlash
[00:35:21] <roycroft> i'd rather avoid that hassle
[00:35:30] <roycroft> sure, so can i, manually, and easily
[00:36:00] <roycroft> i don't want a cnc machine to always travel in one direction though
[00:36:12] <roycroft> perhaps it's easier to compensate for backlash than i think it is
[00:36:14] <anarchos2_> how much do they charge for cuts? i was thinking of buying a 4"x4" piece of aluminum but a couple feet long (for if/when i try to make a few parts to sell), but i'd need to cut them down into 4x4x3" blocks
[00:36:16] <ssi> anyway, point is that the cheap rolled ballscrews are plenty good enough for a machine that holds 0.001"
[00:36:29] <anarchos2_> probably easier to pay someone to do that than buy some sort of metal bandsaw
[00:36:31] <roycroft> that's what i'm trying to get a snes of, ssi
[00:36:50] <roycroft> quite a bit anarchos2_
[00:36:54] <roycroft> like $3/cut or so
[00:37:02] <anarchos2_> wow
[00:37:09] <roycroft> i only get custom cuts when i buy expensive metals like brass or ss
[00:37:25] <roycroft> anything else, i'll just get a 10' length even if i only need 6"
[00:37:32] <roycroft> it's a good way to build up inventory :)
[00:38:33] <roycroft> i do have a 7x12 bandsaw, though
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[00:38:43] <anarchos2_> i have no room for that :P
[00:38:53] <roycroft> i have no room for my new router
[00:38:56] <anarchos2_> my workshop is 7.5x5 feet :P
[00:39:06] <roycroft> finding somewhere for it to live may be the biggest challenge of the build
[00:39:10] <anarchos2_> about 50% of that is taken up by my work bench
[00:39:35] <roycroft> you need to build an extension
[00:39:40] <roycroft> bump your shop out a bit
[00:39:47] <roycroft> or up
[00:39:48] <anarchos2_> i rent :P
[00:39:58] <roycroft> outbuilding on skids
[00:40:03] <anarchos2_> lol
[00:40:19] <roycroft> that ski resort land is about $1000/ft^2, though
[00:40:27] <roycroft> so you probably don't have a lot of property
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[00:41:15] <anarchos2_> the house is built into a cliff, so not a lot of land
[00:41:18] <roycroft> i figure that to get 2x3' travel on my router i'll need a footprint of 3x5' or so
[00:41:25] <roycroft> oh
[00:41:31] <roycroft> so get an air chisel
[00:41:33] <anarchos2_> convert the driveway into a garage would be my best bet (if i owned the house
[00:41:33] <roycroft> and get busy
[00:41:34] <roycroft> :)
[00:41:53] <anarchos2_> dynamite
[00:41:58] <anarchos2_> much better option
[00:42:03] <roycroft> or you can design and build a tunnel boring machine
[00:42:15] <roycroft> that would be hewaps of fun
[00:42:18] <roycroft> heaps
[00:42:22] <roycroft> but a serious distraction
[00:42:48] <Tom_itx> just don't roll outta bed on the wrong side
[00:43:18] <roycroft> chicken wire will help with that
[00:43:21] <anarchos2_> onlinemetals.com charges $6 per cut :/
[00:44:03] <roycroft> well
[00:44:10] <roycroft> you live in a hoity-toity town
[00:44:18] <roycroft> you can charge top dollar for the parts you make
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[00:44:46] <MrHindsight> are you near one of these?
http://metalsupermarkets.com/store-finder/
[00:44:53] <roycroft> just add in the $6 cut as a snob surcharge
[00:46:16] <anarchos2_> MrHindsight, ~2 hours is the closest one
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[00:47:58] <anarchos2_> ooh i have an idea. triton delivers daily to my work
[00:48:13] <anarchos2_> i call them up, order on my credit card and have them deliver on the same truck
[00:48:30] <anarchos2_> talk to the parts guys, bribe them with beer to give me a call when my metal gets there
[00:48:34] <MrHindsight> you can save 20-50% of the online price by ordering direct from the local metalsupermarkets stores
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[01:27:41] <anarchos2__> huh, my aliexpress ordered was cancelled or something. it says "closed" and "no shipment"
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[01:40:39] <XXCoder> anarchos2__: got money back?
[01:44:28] <anarchos2__> XXCoder, it appears they didn't even charge my card
[01:44:40] <XXCoder> oldd
[01:44:44] <XXCoder> odd
[01:44:45] <Tom_itx> they just wanted your cc info
[01:45:06] <XXCoder> they dont get it
[01:48:01] <anarchos2__> or maybe they did...
[01:48:35] <anarchos2__> it's hard to tell since there's no name on the charge yet (that always takes a couple days) and it was in USD and my cards in CAD
[01:48:46] <anarchos2__> so it's a "random" amount
[01:49:31] <XXCoder> do a conversion to cad and klook for close numbers
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[01:50:48] <roycroft> so for this router project of mine, would 16mm ball screws suffice?
[01:50:58] <roycroft> i found a nice set
[01:51:10] <anarchos2__> XXCoder, it was only for $~8 and i have a lot of charges for $8 and change :P
[01:51:20] <anarchos2__> coffee and whatnot :P
[01:51:26] <Tom_itx> roycroft, they should do just fine
[01:51:30] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/m325u39
[01:51:34] <XXCoder> roycroft: what size router? but yeah would think so I guess
[01:51:36] <roycroft> and that's a very good price
[01:51:36] <anarchos2__> but looking at the time stamp of my order vs charge on my card, it seems I was charged
[01:51:55] <XXCoder> whoa!
[01:51:59] <roycroft> the set are 350/950/1150mm
[01:52:01] <XXCoder> yeah good price
[01:52:11] <XXCoder> sorely tempted to go buy it too
[01:52:16] <roycroft> US$159 delivered
[01:52:26] <Tom_itx> you'll need ends etc
[01:52:37] <roycroft> it comes with them
[01:52:41] <anarchos2__> can you get ballscrews that are strong enough to not twist over 8'?
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[01:52:42] <roycroft> it comes with nuts and ends
[01:52:53] <anarchos2__> if i build a router table it's gonna be a 4x8'er
[01:53:03] <roycroft> 30mm ball screws perhaps?
[01:53:22] <roycroft> the answer, of course, is yes, you can
[01:53:24] <toastyde2th> I've worked on machines with 100mm ballscrews, so I know they exist
[01:53:28] <anarchos2__> heh
[01:53:32] <toastyde2th> not cheap
[01:53:32] <roycroft> the next question is can you afford them?
[01:53:41] <XXCoder> toast largest I ever saw was 2 inch
[01:53:44] <anarchos2__> also the question is, does europe have a standard plywood size, like 4x8?
[01:53:53] <XXCoder> I assume 2 inches but realluy could be 3 inch
[01:54:03] <toastyde2th> it's very uncommon to see large ballscrews, but they exist
[01:54:09] <toastyde2th> i've seen acme screws 6" in diameter
[01:54:10] <XXCoder> oh 100mm is even larger!
[01:54:16] <XXCoder> wow.
[01:54:18] <toastyde2th> yeah, 4"
[01:54:24] <roycroft> baltic birch plywood is 1525mmx1525mm
[01:54:25] <Tom_itx> roycroft doesn't come with support blocks
[01:54:28] <XXCoder> did incorrect conversion
[01:54:55] <XXCoder> 25mm to inch roughly good to remember
[01:54:59] <roycroft> i assumed that was the standard european size
[01:55:19] <XXCoder> sigh I wanna work on my cnc but so busy
[01:55:32] <XXCoder> ironically busy working on cnc macgine. at work.
[01:55:34] <anarchos2__> apparently the euros use 125x250cm ply mostly
[01:55:47] <roycroft> what support blocks?
[01:55:56] <roycroft> it comes with the nuts and with the end blocks
[01:56:01] <roycroft> what else do you need?
[01:56:41] <roycroft> however you connect to your motor you will have to custom fabricate a holder
[01:56:43] <Tom_itx> i didn't see that it said endblocks
[01:56:43] <XXCoder> hmm the screw, the nuts, the blocks at ends to hold screw in place
[01:56:55] <XXCoder> tom yeah i dont see it either
[01:57:07] <roycroft> it says "+ball nut+end"
[01:57:12] <Tom_itx> says the end is machined
[01:57:20] <Tom_itx> round for a collar
[01:57:25] <Tom_itx> not endblocks
[01:57:26] <roycroft> but even if it doesn't come with the end blocks, they're not hard to make
[01:57:33] <Tom_itx> agreed
[01:57:57] <roycroft> an hour or so on a vertical mill and bob's your uncle
[01:57:58] <XXCoder> heh still havent figured how to make holder for nut to gantry and stuff
[01:58:11] <roycroft> i'm going to buy the ball screws
[01:58:14] <anarchos2__> my package went from supposidly being delivered today to "delivery estimate unavailable" back to being delivered today...but it's 7pm
[01:58:15] <roycroft> and design around them
[01:58:20] <anarchos2__> i think they're lying to me.. :P
[01:58:26] * roycroft is almost ready to pull the trigger on that set
[01:58:30] <XXCoder> assuming one owns said mill
[01:58:41] <XXCoder> roycroft: go for it
[01:58:42] <roycroft> the price is pretty damn good
[01:58:52] <XXCoder> I paid more than double for less
[01:59:08] <roycroft> for a router i don't think i can really go wrong
[01:59:20] <XXCoder> just clean out bearings
[01:59:25] <XXCoder> I had to fix mine
[01:59:25] <roycroft> if it were for a knee mill and i wanted to hold 0.0005" perhaps not
[01:59:34] <Tom_itx> i've half a notion to get a set myself
[01:59:44] <roycroft> but i'm only looking for an order of magnitude less
[01:59:57] <roycroft> well it's a good thing there are more than 10 available
[02:00:10] <roycroft> since i seem to have several folks interested now :)
[02:00:53] <Tom_itx> roughly 13" 37" and 45"
[02:00:54] <anarchos2__> heh
[02:01:08] <anarchos2__> what kind of table are you going to make?
[02:01:15] <Tom_itx> what's the screw pitch?
[02:01:17] <anarchos2__> like...extrusion?
[02:02:14] <roycroft> 1610 is 16mm diameter, 10mm lead, i think
[02:02:24] <roycroft> oh wait
[02:02:28] <roycroft> those are 1605
[02:02:31] <roycroft> so 5mm
[02:02:32] <Tom_itx> those are 1605
[02:02:39] <Tom_itx> 5mm per turn?
[02:02:44] <roycroft> yes, i think so
[02:02:50] <roycroft> so slower
[02:02:56] <roycroft> but better granularity
[02:03:23] <Tom_itx> odd number for an inch machine
[02:03:27] <Tom_itx> which is what i'd be after
[02:03:42] <roycroft> cnc has computer magic that can fix that for you
[02:03:46] <Tom_itx> .19685" per turn
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[02:04:18] <XXCoder> computer doing computery thing? no! wow
[02:04:20] <XXCoder> ;)
[02:04:33] <roycroft> i would water that if you wanted an inch ball screw you would pay 4-5x as much for it
[02:04:38] <roycroft> wager, rather
[02:05:39] <Tom_itx> i bet you could get the pillow blocks from them as well
[02:05:40] <XXCoder> water wager lol
[02:05:44] <roycroft> 5/8"x5 turns/inch would be the nearest equivalent
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[02:06:02] <roycroft> yes, they sell blocks
[02:06:07] <roycroft> probably the correct size, too
[02:06:27] <roycroft> those screws would make a bigger machine than i want/need
[02:06:31] <roycroft> which is better than smaller
[02:06:35] <jdh> why would you care if they are inch or metric
[02:06:38] <roycroft> and not all that much bigger
[02:06:51] <roycroft> i really don't
[02:06:58] <jdh> you can get whatever size you want cut to fit for pretty much the same price.
[02:06:58] <roycroft> because i only want to hold 0.005"
[02:07:16] <roycroft> the imprecision in converting from us common units to metric is way less than 0.005"
[02:07:28] <jdh> there is no imprecision
[02:07:37] <Tom_itx> this might be a better deal:
[02:07:38] <roycroft> there's a little bit
[02:07:42] <jdh> there is none.
[02:07:43] <anarchos2__> they changed the inch to match mm, exactly.
[02:07:46] <anarchos2__> did they not?
[02:07:55] <roycroft> an inch is exactly 25.4mm
[02:07:56] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-anti-backlash-ballscrew-RM1605-400-600-600mm-C7-end-machine-ball-nut-CNC-set-/181300982331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3661723b
[02:08:08] <anarchos2__> 25.4 on the dot
[02:08:14] <Tom_itx> with free shipping
[02:08:25] <roycroft> not big enough
[02:08:31] <Tom_itx> except the x is too short...
[02:08:33] <roycroft> i need 2'x3' at least
[02:08:46] <roycroft> 1000mm is barely enough, if enough, for the x
[02:09:12] <roycroft> and 600mm is not quite enough for the y
[02:09:25] <roycroft> that's only $20 less
[02:09:36] <anarchos2__> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SFU1605-1200-2600mm-Super-Long-Zero-Backlash-CNC-Ball-Screw-No-Endmachined-/141241957672
[02:09:39] <anarchos2__> that's what i need
[02:09:45] <anarchos2__> not too bad price wise, really.
[02:09:52] <roycroft> i'm liking the set i posted
[02:10:04] <roycroft> i'm going to ponder that while i finish making dinner
[02:10:19] <roycroft> but there's a strong likelihood i'll pull the trigger after dinner
[02:10:32] <XXCoder> it seems decent indeed
[02:10:33] <roycroft> i'm going to construct the frame/gantry out of 80/20, btw
[02:10:39] <XXCoder> damn
[02:10:43] <XXCoder> wish i can afford THAT
[02:10:54] <roycroft> it's a little pricey
[02:11:03] <roycroft> but if you put a value on your time, it's pretty cheap
[02:11:10] <roycroft> erector set for grownups :)
[02:11:13] <XXCoder> my router design has serious issues
[02:11:32] <anarchos2__> what kind of slides are you planning on using, raycroft?
[02:11:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR16-300-1300-1300mm-linear-rail-set-3-ballscrew-RM1605-BK-BF12-end-bearing-CNC-/171221281701?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item27dd956ba5
[02:11:35] <anarchos2__> roy*
[02:11:40] <Tom_itx> everything you need and then some
[02:11:51] <roycroft> i'm thinking cold-rolled steel
[02:11:58] <roycroft> 1/4"x2"
[02:12:10] <roycroft> and i'll make some blocks to slide on them with six bearings
[02:12:14] <Tom_itx> that kit has the slides too
[02:12:16] <roycroft> two above, two below, and two on the end
[02:12:18] <XXCoder> ouh painful but HUGE
[02:12:32] <XXCoder> but then it has EVERYTHIN
[02:12:43] <roycroft> i haven't figured out how to adjust the bearings, though
[02:13:01] <roycroft> i supposed if i machine everything properly in the first place there will be no need to adjust the bearings
[02:13:55] <anarchos2__> so with a setup like that, you'd mount the linear guide rails down to a frame, then mount the frame of your table to the blocks on the linear rails?
[02:14:08] <roycroft> i just got back from holidays, and i spent a bunch of time thinking about how to build the router
[02:14:43] <anarchos2__> and then attach your ball screw nut to the table somehow?
[02:14:52] <roycroft> i'd build a frame for the x axis with 80/20, mount the table to that frame directly, and put the guide rails on the bottom of the frame
[02:15:20] <roycroft> the gantry would extend down below the frame, and have a cross member underneath to which i'll attach the nut for the x axis ball screw
[02:15:23] <roycroft> does that make sense?
[02:15:30] <anarchos2__> a little
[02:15:37] <roycroft> i'm building a moving gantry router
[02:15:50] <anarchos2__> so your table is going to X, then the gantry Y/Z?
[02:15:56] <roycroft> yes
[02:16:05] <roycroft> the table is immobile
[02:16:09] <roycroft> it's attached to the frame
[02:16:14] <anarchos2__> ah i see
[02:16:14] <roycroft> x movement is by moving the gantry
[02:16:15] <XXCoder> moving gantry tyen
[02:16:22] <anarchos2__> all movement in gantry
[02:16:26] <roycroft> right
[02:16:33] <roycroft> i don't have room to build a moving table router
[02:16:39] <anarchos2__> heh, yeah
[02:16:43] <roycroft> moving gantry is significantly more compact
[02:17:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.dogmaphobia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cad.jpg an example
[02:17:49] <anarchos2__> yeah makes sense
[02:18:04] <XXCoder> mines moving gantry too
[02:18:15] <roycroft> after i get the ball screws i'll start modeling the machine in solidworks
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[02:18:47] <jdh> why not the other way around
[02:18:54] <roycroft> sort of, capthindsight
[02:19:08] <roycroft> except i'll be dropping the gantry below the table
[02:19:54] <roycroft> more like this:
[02:19:56] <roycroft> http://www.payne.org/index.php/File:IMG_0986.jpg
[02:20:38] <roycroft> jdh: i do not want to even consider modifying the ball screws
[02:20:46] <roycroft> i'd rather design around them than vice-versa
[02:20:58] <jdh> you can get ball screws exactly how you want for about the same price.
[02:21:22] <roycroft> i'm also waiting for the 80/20 dvd with all their parts in solidworks format
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[02:21:27] <roycroft> that will make it a lot easier
[02:21:39] <CaptHindsight> be sure to get with them threads on one end for setting the bearing preload
[02:22:02] <roycroft> did you see the link i posted above, capthindsight?
[02:22:18] <CaptHindsight> yes
[02:22:43] <roycroft> that's all the information i have about them
[02:23:45] <roycroft> i've worked with machines that have ball screws, but never built nor maintained one that has them
[02:23:54] <roycroft> i don't know about setting the bearing preload on them
[02:24:10] <roycroft> if you would care to enlighten me further it would be much appreciated
[02:24:28] <roycroft> $159 is cheap, but if they don't do the job it's pissing $159 down the drain
[02:24:31] <CaptHindsight> ballscrew_fixity
[02:24:31] <roycroft> which is not cheap
[02:26:02] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
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[02:26:24] <roycroft> thanks
[02:26:33] <roycroft> i'm not sure if that's one of the links you gave me the other day
[02:26:46] <roycroft> i went on a camping trip right after that, and just returned
[02:27:02] <roycroft> i didn't have a chance to visit all of the links you provided at the time - i'm just now catching up
[02:27:51] <anarchos2__> i have issues with my free end ball screw
[02:27:54] <anarchos2__> i'm afraid to commit
[02:28:29] <anarchos2__> to drilling my column
[02:31:25] <roycroft> ok, so from what i read of that a thrust bearing at the motor end is useful to ensure accuracy
[02:31:55] <anarchos2__> http://imgur.com/L3pZtvr
[02:32:41] <anarchos2__> i need to drill my Z plate into the column, right now it's held with a clamp, but i can't find the perfect alignment so the ball screw doesn't bind on the nut
[02:33:38] <anarchos2__> i think i need to get better clamos
[02:33:40] <roycroft> the linkage end of the screws i'm looking at have, coming out from the threads, a turned shaft of indeterminate length, a threaded section the same diameter, and a linkage section that is turned down smaller
[02:33:40] <anarchos2__> clamps
[02:33:52] <roycroft> one should be able to fabricate a thrust bearing to fit that
[02:34:21] <roycroft> and i mentioned the other day a concern about the screw "whipping" if turned too fast
[02:34:38] <roycroft> i can see how the fixed bearing would help alleviate that problem
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[02:35:47] <anarchos2__> yea
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[02:48:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm
[02:49:24] <CaptHindsight> http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg
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[02:52:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf The maximum safe operating speed of a ballscrew assembly for normal operation is 80% of the critical speed p
[02:59:07] <Tom_itx> !wench ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[02:59:34] <Tom_itx> and of course it's not online :(
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[03:03:01] <the_wench> you called
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[03:12:07] <Tom_itx> !wench ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[03:12:53] * Tom_itx slaps the_wench a bit
[03:12:54] <archivist> !wench learn ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[03:12:54] <the_wench> I have learned ballscrew-info is
http://www.kuroda-precision.com/products/ball_screws/QandA/BS_QandA_001.htm and
http://machinedesign.com/site-files/machinedesign.com/files/archive/motionsystemdesign.com/images/typical-evaluation-checks.jpg and
http://www.beaver-online.com/uploaded/files/Critical%20Speed%20Formula.pdf
[03:13:03] <CaptHindsight> ballscrew_fixity
[03:13:03] <the_wench> http://machinedesign.com/linear-motion/importance-ballscrew-end-fixity
[03:13:08] * archivist slaps Tom_itx
[03:13:19] <Tom_itx> thanks i needed that :)
[03:14:27] <CaptHindsight> ballscrews, microstepping and maybe t-slots are the top 3 topics
[03:14:29] <roycroft> well, fixed support blocks are more expensive than the ball screws themselves
[03:17:11] <roycroft> it might be better to go back to 25mm ball screws, anticipating that the greater rigidity of the shaft will better ameliorate the flex effect
[03:17:55] <Tom_itx> more mass to accelerate too
[03:21:12] <CaptHindsight> higher inertia
[03:26:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.learneasy.info/MDME/MEMmods/class_projects/backstop/controller/Topic4-BallscrewCalculations.pdf
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[03:46:15] <XXCoder> heys
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[04:14:52] <anarchos2__> i kinda want one of these
[04:14:55] <anarchos2__> http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32682#
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[04:29:29] <roycroft> ok, i think this will work with those ball screws:
[04:29:31] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/mybyoye
[04:30:38] <roycroft> aah, a much better deal on a set of 3:
[04:30:39] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/poyxwm2
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[04:34:01] <XXCoder> gonna love disconnects
[04:34:22] <roycroft> did you see the link to the mounts that i posted?
[04:34:48] <XXCoder> the screw mounts yeah
[04:35:33] <roycroft> they cost as much as the screws and nuts
[04:35:44] <roycroft> but still, about $300 for everything is a good deal
[04:35:44] <XXCoder> yeah
[04:35:52] <XXCoder> if you has skill its cheaper make own
[04:35:59] <XXCoder> I dont lol so I bougth my own
[04:36:37] <roycroft> the fixed bearing is a lot of machining
[04:36:42] <XXCoder> insane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f44oHby9aMw
[04:37:06] <roycroft> i don't know that i have the skill - i could probably pull it off if i were really careful - but it would take me a long time to make those
[04:37:18] <XXCoder> time vs money
[04:37:58] <XXCoder> 800 inches per minute
[04:38:00] <XXCoder> insane
[04:38:06] <roycroft> that's wicked fast
[04:38:18] <XXCoder> my mentor told me about machine that does 1000 ipm though
[04:38:21] <roycroft> my brain would hurt if i watched that
[04:38:30] <XXCoder> lift millimeter above stock and go 1000 ipm
[04:44:26] <toastyde2th> lol it's hard to buy a small VMC that's under like 2500 IPM now
[04:44:34] <toastyde2th> if your machine has linear motors it'll do like 6000 ipm
[04:57:38] <Jymmm> and if it has logarithmic motors, it'll build you a cabin in the woods
[05:00:46] <roycroft> i'm too old for that kind of speed
[05:01:00] <XXCoder> yeah
[05:01:14] <XXCoder> with your older age, you need greater speed. like 100,000 ipm
[05:01:21] <XXCoder> less time wasted
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[06:01:05] <toastyde2th> high speed machines are so scary
[06:01:16] <toastyde2th> I really don't like having windows on fast rapid machines
[06:01:26] <toastyde2th> my butthole hurts from clenching it too hard over time
[06:01:47] <toastyde2th> ZIP "hrk" ZIP ZIP ZIP "oh god" ZIP "ow"
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[06:05:57] <Jymmm> TMI
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[06:12:46] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[06:16:53] <Loetmichel> toastyde2th: i know what you mean. i made this machine for a friend... it can do 1200 ipm. i have limited it in software to 600 ipm because to scary ;-) ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYgyqjHCBLg
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[06:27:32] <Jymmm> my machine can move 85,000 miles/second... cutting air
[06:29:08] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i dont believe you
[06:29:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Fine, send me some air and I'll show you!
[06:31:18] <Loetmichel> 85000 miles/sec would be about a quarter the speed of light... ;-)
[06:31:55] <Jymmm> no, thats 133,000
[06:32:36] <Jymmm> err 186,000
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[07:35:35] <anarchos2__> wow those are crazy high speeds
[07:35:45] <anarchos2__> i wonder how i can get more speed out of mine
[07:35:55] <anarchos2__> my motors seems to make weird noises after 25ipm
[07:35:58] <anarchos2__> and lose steps
[07:36:13] <anarchos2__> or like...do weird ass things
[07:38:10] <anarchos2__> i wonder if i turned my microstepping down
[07:38:22] <anarchos2__> or get a mesa card, maybe?
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[07:42:08] <anarchos2__> i'm not sure if it's the pc, the driver or the motors themselves that can't keep up
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[08:19:20] <Loetmichel> gnah, sweating like hell. that is the fith weekend in line i am driving to the trash burning power plant. why did my landlod had the idea to paint the house and the balconys?
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[08:19:59] <Loetmichel> <- packing the car with the last batch of 8 times 120 liters trash bags... it seems i am kind of a messy guy.... where did all that stuff on the balconys come from?
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[09:53:55] <archivist> anarchos2__, steppers cannot manage high speeds
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[09:57:03] <Jymmmm> What's a good way to have something maintain symmetry but appear random?
[09:57:56] <Jymmmm> random, "organic", etc
[10:00:46] <archivist> you are speaking of an oxymoron
[10:01:16] <Jymmmm> Sorry, not metaphorically, but visually.
[10:02:39] <Jymmmm> Like if blades of grass are planted on a grid/hex, but not appear as such.
[10:02:45] <archivist> nobody can possibly know what you want from that description
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[15:47:53] <roycroft> i've emailed the seller of those ball screws asking for the length of thread on each
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[15:48:38] * roycroft hopes to get useful answers
[15:48:47] <zeeshan> those ball screws have drawings online
[15:49:39] <roycroft> i actually just found another listing for the same ones
[15:49:43] <roycroft> which has the drawings
[15:49:52] <roycroft> and are on sale
[15:50:32] <CaptHindsight> and hope the drawings are accurate
[15:51:55] <roycroft> hmm, so i lose 108mm, including the length of the nut
[15:52:01] <CaptHindsight> I tend to get some excuse for inaccuracies like "oh that old drawing, this newer but better part"
[15:52:17] <XXCoder> lol
[15:52:18] <CaptHindsight> "it still work right?"
[15:52:29] <zeeshan> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/barrie/machine-shop-layout-table/1014661289?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
[15:52:30] <zeeshan> man
[15:52:33] <zeeshan> that's hell of a deal
[15:52:33] <CaptHindsight> "we only mean could be that long"
[15:52:34] <roycroft> if it's close that's all i need for now
[15:52:34] <zeeshan> for all that stuff
[15:52:52] <zeeshan> that is one sexy steel surface table
[15:52:56] <zeeshan> its like polished
[15:54:10] <roycroft> that is a good deal
[15:54:22] <zeeshan> i think jusjt that table
[15:54:23] <zeeshan> is worth that much
[15:54:33] <CaptHindsight> well over that
[15:54:39] <zeeshan> i only want 3x3.5" angle plate
[15:54:40] <roycroft> my layout table is granite
[15:54:44] <zeeshan> and 4x4" angle plate
[15:54:45] <zeeshan> er
[15:54:46] <zeeshan> 5x5
[15:54:50] <zeeshan> but he wont part them
[15:54:52] <roycroft> it's only 18"x24"
[15:55:01] <zeeshan> yea my table is weaksauce
[15:55:04] <roycroft> so buy the lot and part out the rest
[15:55:08] <zeeshan> its a like 18x18
[15:55:14] <zeeshan> roycroft: i got no room
[15:55:15] <XXCoder> resell rest
[15:55:26] <zeeshan> my garage is absolutely full
[15:55:28] <XXCoder> you probably can gain more money if capt is right
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[15:56:34] <zeeshan> do you americans have monday off
[15:56:39] <zeeshan> like us canadians
[15:56:40] <zeeshan> ;D
[15:56:42] <XXCoder> me american monday off
[15:56:43] <Tom_itx> of course we do
[15:56:49] <zeeshan> sweet
[15:56:53] <zeeshan> happy long weekend everyone!
[15:56:54] <zeeshan> :]
[15:59:16] <XXCoder> yeah been woking 6 day weeks, finally no sat AND long weekend,. nice. lol
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[16:06:23] <roycroft> same seller has the bearing mounts on sale too
[16:06:39] <roycroft> $287.88 for everything, including shipping
[16:09:51] <CaptHindsight> what's a day off?
[16:10:19] <XXCoder> labor day
[16:10:53] <CaptHindsight> oh, one of those days where nothing gets shipped
[16:12:57] * roycroft pulls the trigger, thinking that's a pretty good deal for a set of ball screws
[16:14:06] <XXCoder> temping for me too but I'd have to vbuy rails again
[16:14:43] <roycroft> the other seller has a 6% off sale on both items
[16:14:55] <roycroft> and they had the drawings with the listings, which was useful
[16:15:04] <roycroft> i didn't wait for a response from the first seller
[16:16:07] <roycroft> and i get six monts at 0% interest to pay for the things
[16:16:18] <roycroft> which means i can use my cash to buy more parts now
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[16:20:30] <Deejay> namd
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[16:38:58] <PetefromTn_> Have a nice weekend everyone.. I am just waiting for my new bearings to get here who knows how long that will take. The fact that Monday is a Holiday is kinda gonna make it take even longer unfortunately.
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[17:16:12] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn_ so much time to work but nothing to work on?
[17:16:57] <PetefromTn_> yeah well I am going to work on the spindle encoder shaft for the motor and my RWS54 12ftlbs destroked Field Target Rifle build.
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[17:35:38] <ssi> PetefromTn_: the holiday is making my new laser tube take longer to come too :'(
[17:36:24] <Tom_itx> what happened to the old one?
[17:36:27] <ssi> nothin
[17:36:34] <ssi> ordered a 100W reci tube
[17:36:41] <PetefromTn_> Oh you mean so you can burn down the neighbors hous in record time??
[17:36:46] <ssi> exactly
[17:36:51] <ssi> and then the house on the other side
[17:36:54] <PetefromTn_> ;)>
[17:37:01] <ssi> speaking of houses
[17:37:06] <ssi> a tree fell on my house tuesday :(
[17:37:17] <PetefromTn_> damn that suck.. wanna buy mine LOL
[17:37:22] <ssi> lol
[17:37:25] <ssi> don't want the house, just the cinci ;)
[17:37:37] <ssi> I'll buy it cheap right now while the bearings are bad!
[17:37:39] <PetefromTn_> hell You can have both if the price is right!!
[17:37:54] <PetefromTn_> hell bearings are on their way man...
[17:38:02] <ssi> YEAH BUT RIGHT NOW THEY'RE BAD
[17:38:09] <ssi> :D
[17:38:12] <PetefromTn_> Gonna be up and running smooth as glass before you can shake a stick.
[17:38:59] <Tom_itx> tool changer too?
[17:39:07] <PetefromTn_> the new bearings are actually rated higher than the originals by a considerable amount.
[17:39:41] <PetefromTn_> Hey if I can con my best buddy and resident Genius Connor into coming over and donating a bit more of his time ya just never know LOL
[17:39:52] <Tom_itx> hammer em into their housing when they arrive
[17:39:52] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[17:40:09] <PetefromTn_> meh I own a decent press..probably don't need one tho.
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[17:54:50] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn_, what bearings did you end up getting?
[17:55:27] <PetefromTn_> I got some Fafnir branded versions of the original bearings which are actually rated a bit higher than the originals in grease.
[17:55:36] <PetefromTn_> Got them from an ebay seller in NYC.
[17:56:04] <JT-Shop> cool
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[18:07:57] <JT-Shop> I need to bend some 7/8 OD tubing with a .120 wall on 4" radius... wonder if I can bend that
[18:13:57] <marmite> probebly
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[18:15:49] <tjtr33> hello from Taipei ! (happy dance, i got some work :)
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[18:16:46] <tjtr33> nayone here used usrmot? pretty cool linuxcnc feature, acts like a terminal program, takes ascii commands, moves, even arcs
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[18:33:03] <tjtr33> i was trying to run usrmot this way:
[18:33:08] <tjtr33> open a terminal, exec linuxcnc &
[18:33:13] <tjtr33> then cd ~/linuxcnc/configs/stepper-xyza
[18:33:51] <tjtr33> then /usr/bin/usrmot -ini inch.ini
[18:33:51] <tjtr33> you get a list of the cmds that way
[18:34:09] <tjtr33> this is a very poor cnxn, hope the gist made it thru
[18:35:17] <tjtr33> oh yeah, your paths and cfgs will likely vary
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[18:37:36] <tjtr33> no gcode involved, so maybe handy for those automation or synchronous tasks mentioned recently
[18:38:38] <CaptHindsight> very inneresting
[18:39:05] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: connection is fine
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[18:39:37] <tjtr33> as i sat on the plane i wondered if it had pins
[18:39:55] <tjtr33> wether usrmot had pins, like a hal component
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[18:45:24] <tjtr33> no pins seen, but such a cobbled way of running it after axis wouldnt show it anyway. hal isnt aware of it , halcmd show pin shows no usrmot items
[18:47:01] <tjtr33> well the idea is to inject positions to the quueu directly, then think better of it and issue 'a' ( abort ) and tell it to do soemting else, possibly based some dynamic process input ( cough: like EDM )
[18:47:39] <tjtr33> the credit for the idea/hack is to Dave Engval ( hope i spelled it right this time Dave )
[18:48:26] <tjtr33> he sent me a couple emails on this idea back in 2006 that i _just_ got around to reading on the flight
[18:51:48] <ssi> JT-Shop: that's some pretty heavy walled tubing
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[19:44:45] <awyea> I'm trying to set up one of those cheap ebay BOBs, but I'm getting no motor movement so I have my scope out. How should I look at the step pin signal?
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[20:39:51] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:03:19] <CaptHindsight> awyea: have a link to the cheap BOB? I have several different that I've tried.
[21:08:00] <CaptHindsight> awyea: scope the Step signal where you expect the input to be on the BOB, the .hal will have the pin number
[21:09:19] <CaptHindsight> if you see it there, then check the expected output location, also post which stepper driver you are connecting it to
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[22:14:45] <anarchos2__> hola
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[22:27:22] <anarchos2__> how do people usually mount their camview cameras to their mill?
[22:28:06] <anarchos2__> i'm just wondering how far from the centre of the spindle it could be before it starts getting weird to align things because of the angle
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[22:30:05] <f1oat> my camera is about 100mm far from the center of the spindle. The tricky job if to have it properly aligned to Z axis
[22:30:31] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2__: if it's parallel to the spindle and the offset doesn't change is another way of doing it
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[22:31:56] <CaptHindsight> the camera just needs to find the position of what you want, if the camera doesn't move then you know that the center of the spindle is offset by whatever the distance/position is of the camera
[22:32:14] <anarchos2__> right, hmm
[22:32:47] <anarchos2__> but if the tool length changes (which mine do) then it might be tought to figure out, no?
[22:33:02] <CaptHindsight> well Z is another story
[22:33:55] <anarchos2__> would it be possible to take the tool offset and have the crosshairs on camview-emc change location, automagically?
[22:34:01] <anarchos2__> i'm sure some sort of math could figure it out
[22:34:31] <CaptHindsight> yes, it's already in the camview plugins but I have to write the howto
[22:34:37] <anarchos2__> oh i see
[22:34:48] <f1oat> I use a mount with a ball joint and fine adjustment screws for Z alignment. Look at
http://blog.f1oat.org/tag/hd5000/
[22:34:59] <CaptHindsight> the info is currently scattered over a few pages
[22:35:26] <ssi> I have all those pages open in a browser in the hopes that one day I'll get around to doing it :P
[22:35:34] <anarchos2__> CaptHindsight, also, do you know if there's a debian compatable repo for camview-emc?
[22:35:37] <ssi> in fact, here
[22:35:38] <ssi> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video
[22:35:41] <ssi> http://psha.org.ru/b/camview-emc.html
[22:35:44] <ssi> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc
[22:35:46] <ssi> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Camview
[22:35:50] <ssi> lul
[22:36:08] <CaptHindsight> anarchos2__: there were for some version of debian, just not wheezy
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[22:36:58] <anarchos2__> ah
[22:38:43] <anarchos2__> this is gonna be super cool once everything arrives :D
[22:38:49] <anarchos2__> my touch plate was shipped today
[22:39:01] <CaptHindsight> http://psha.org.ru/debian/README.html
[22:39:32] <anarchos2__> i wonder if i could add the squeeze repo
[22:39:52] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Camview I only got this far on the new howto
[22:40:16] <CaptHindsight> please add any clear info to it :)
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[22:43:53] <CaptHindsight> http://psha.org.ru/debian/dists/squeeze/
[22:44:50] <anarchos2__> python-camunits : Depends: python (< 2.7) but 2.7.3-4+deb7u1 is installed.
[22:45:14] <anarchos2__> camunits-plugins-emc-misc : Depends: libcv2.1 which is a virtual package.
[22:45:14] <anarchos2__> Depends: libfreeimage3 (>= 3.10.0) but it is not going to be installed.
[22:45:23] <anarchos2__> when i add the squeeze repo :(
[22:45:29] <CaptHindsight> yes, it needs some help
[22:46:12] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure where is source is
[22:46:47] <CaptHindsight> he made some changes to the camunits sources
[22:46:52] <Rab> Anybody have a preferred camera for Camview?
[22:47:13] <CaptHindsight> I tried several
[22:47:17] <awyea> @CaptHindsight sorry got unexpectedly called away for longer than I thought here is the link
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Upgraded-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Mach3-USB-Cable-/310702269807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48574c656f
[22:47:31] <CaptHindsight> Rab: it depends on your needs
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[22:48:23] <anarchos2__> i'd like to be able to touch off X and Y with the camera
[22:48:23] <CaptHindsight> awyea: I have that one on my desk in front of me
[22:48:43] <Rab> CaptHindsight, I mainly just want to monitor the tool. A friend of mine is writing software to do Z-axis touchoff with OpenCV which seems pretty neat.
[22:48:45] <anarchos2__> and then Z with my touch plate combined with measuring the height of the workpiece beforehand (i think that how it works)
[22:48:58] <anarchos2__> for a zero-touch touch off routine
[22:52:17] <Rab> anarchos2__, here's the software I was talking about...has nothing to do with LinuxCNC though.
https://github.com/jerkey/homer
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[22:54:02] <Rab> I'm not convinced camera focus is precise enough for decent touch-off in the Z plane. But I'm interested to see others' experiments.
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[22:57:30] <CaptHindsight> Rab: you'd have to define "precise enough" it's easily within a few mm :)
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[22:59:32] <anarchos2__> i wonder if you could use one of those macro lense addons for phone cameras
[22:59:33] <Rab> I was thinking a few mils.
[22:59:35] <CaptHindsight> awyea: I haven't gone through that BOB yet, it has two 5V DC connections for common anode optos or one GND for common cathode
[22:59:36] <anarchos2__> and get reeeeeal close
[22:59:51] <Rab> CaptHindsight, which camera do you like?
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[23:01:38] <CaptHindsight> Rab: it depends on the res you want, the closer the camera to work surface the better the res
[23:01:52] <asah> anyone around versed in 3 phase power electronics who can give me some advice on my retrofit plans?
[23:01:54] <asah> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhbf7glecef1vya/MAHO-400E_RETRO_083014.pdf?dl=0
[23:02:04] <CaptHindsight> I even tried some $5 VGA usb cams
[23:02:25] <asah> I am wondering if I should even bother with the contactor in front of the spindle and hydro VFDs
[23:02:44] <asah> I could just have a manual switch / breaker there.
[23:03:07] <asah> as the VFDs would be handling “on” and “off” and would be spinning up the respective motors.
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[23:04:17] <asah> those contactors could be wired into the safety system, which is an argument to have them there I suppose.
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[23:05:02] <asah> though I could just do one single main contactor for all 380 power, from which they all feed.
[23:05:03] <CaptHindsight> Rab:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200X-Portable-USB-2-0-Digital-4-LED-Endoscope-For-Circuit-Board-Preschool-/291170901602 these are only VGA but easy to mount
[23:05:43] <Rab> CaptHindsight, thanks!
[23:06:32] <anarchos2__> ooh that looks nice
[23:06:39] <CaptHindsight> Rab:
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/hd-webcam-c270 was also easy to use and the lens is easy to modify for up close
[23:07:01] <Rab> I'm hoping to mount something inside the dust shoe. A tubular/lipstick-style cam could go through a diagonal hole in the top, though.
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[23:07:47] <Rab> Yeah, the C270 seems to be favored for good performance under Linux.
[23:08:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/hd-webcam-c310?crid=34 these were on sale for ~$30
[23:08:58] <anarchos2__> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Dia-7mm-5m-USB-Endoscope-Inspection-Camera-6LED-IP66-Waterproof-Mini-PC-Camera-Side/964170287.html
[23:09:02] <anarchos2__> that looks pretty nice
[23:09:20] <anarchos2__> waterproof, TINY, 720P...
[23:09:57] <Rab> I have a similar endoscope camera I got off eBay. Framerate under Linux is terrible, and the picture isn't very good either.
[23:10:08] <Rab> It's usable for fishing cables in walls, etc.
[23:10:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-6-LED-1-3M-Clip-WebCam-Web-Camera-w-Microphone-MIC-/330616795036 with led's also worked but it was only VGA at best
[23:11:01] <CaptHindsight> I didn't have to open the case to get the lens to focus <1" away
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[23:11:39] <anarchos2__> http://usbfever.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=251_259&products_id=196
[23:11:56] <anarchos2__> maybe one of these attached to a webcam might be good
[23:12:35] <anarchos2__> says it focuses between 10 and 23mm, so you could get really close up
[23:13:48] <CaptHindsight> it depends on what actual res, speed and reliability you need
[23:14:27] <CaptHindsight> we have also used $20K zoom microscopes to get down to a few microns per pixel
[23:14:53] <anarchos2__> wow
[23:15:09] <CaptHindsight> and also you budget :)
[23:15:16] <CaptHindsight> you/your
[23:15:29] <anarchos2__> http://www.adafruit.com/products/636
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[23:16:04] <CaptHindsight> somebody here got one of those, worked fine
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[23:16:37] <anarchos2__> cool
[23:19:04] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAVITAR-6000-II-ZOOM-LENS-INSPECTION-SYSTEM-SONY-COLOR-CAMERA-MONITOR-/351149378104 something like this gets you a better pic with higher frame rate and from a farther distance
[23:19:12] <CaptHindsight> but also at much higher cost
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[23:21:33] <anarchos2__> yea
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[23:59:01] <CaptHindsight> asah: is there an e-stop or kill input on the VFD's?
