#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-08-08

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[00:00:12] <chopper79> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jKFp0BWN
[00:00:39] <LeelooMinai> Is that what those things are formally called?
[00:00:44] <Tom_itx> LeelooMinai, it's just a little sherline :)
[00:01:42] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, apparently they are: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CNC-4-Axis-USB-Pendant-Manual-remote-Control-JOG-encoder-for-Mach3-ONLY/593668103.html
[00:02:02] <LeelooMinai> Probably would not work with linuxcnc though (?)
[00:02:22] <Tom_itx> yeah, for starters it's usb
[00:03:14] <LeelooMinai> I could design/make my own, but in the past I thought I could maybe use cheap tablet to control the machine.
[00:03:34] <LeelooMinai> One of those $27 ones maybe
[00:03:39] <LeelooMinai> $37*
[00:05:01] <LeelooMinai> Would not have nice physical knob, but would have flexible interface.
[00:05:28] <Tom_itx> the knob is the best part
[00:05:31] <LeelooMinai> Well, I guess I could have knob as an attachment - that would be best of two worlds.
[00:05:56] <LeelooMinai> Right, nothing beats nice big solid0feeling knob
[00:06:51] <LeelooMinai> SO the whole thing, tablet + knob would be $50 or so - but probably would require programming the interface, unless someone made some android app like that.
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[00:08:55] <chopper79> Did my pastebin link show up?
[00:11:13] <LeelooMinai> I saw it
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[00:13:10] <chopper79> Thanks, just wanted to make sure
[00:13:34] <chopper79> So if anyone looked over the file in the link does anyting look out of the ordinary, that would cause my issue?
[00:13:42] <chopper79> anything*
[00:19:12] <Tom_itx> i'm not familiar with the mapping on the 5i25.. is hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.enc0 the count out?
[00:19:26] <Tom_itx> net mpg-out ilowpass.0.in <= hm2_7i43.0.encoder.00.count
[00:19:30] <Tom_itx> i specify count on mine
[00:20:33] <chopper79> That would be the count out
[00:21:10] <Tom_itx> what is your lowpass scale?
[00:21:27] <chopper79> 10
[00:21:39] <Tom_itx> if you compare mine, it's really quite similar
[00:21:42] <Tom_itx> with the jog part
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[00:27:33] <chopper79> They are close after copy, paste and remove the rest of the text
[00:27:39] <chopper79> hmm....
[00:28:12] <Tom_itx> that's why i'm wondering what else it could be
[00:29:56] <chopper79> I agree, PCW was thinking a bad encoder section on the MPG, but changed out for a new mpg and same issue. The count in HAL configuration when I watch enc0 only changes from 0 to -1 and never 0 - +1
[00:30:41] <Tom_itx> put an led on it and watch it
[00:30:45] <chopper79> maybe its something in the mpgs then and its not seeing the A or B input for some reason. I just cant imagine 2 bad mpgs back to back
[00:30:48] <Tom_itx> see if any miss
[00:31:02] <Tom_itx> i doubt it
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[00:32:06] <Tom_itx> what about the encoder mode?
[00:32:51] <chopper79> Since its using MPG mode on the 7I77 I would use only input 16 and 17 and not one of the encoder inputs.
[00:33:06] <chopper79> If i am not mistaken, which is entirely possible
[00:33:28] <PetefromTn_> Thats what I am using on mine.
[00:33:44] <chopper79> so I am not sure if I would still need a count
[00:34:47] <PetefromTn_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC0uvUuXVh8 here ya go!
[00:35:40] <chopper79> @pete.... nice
[00:35:44] <chopper79> haha
[00:36:05] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[00:36:24] <chopper79> Does your hal look similar pete to the one I pasted?
[00:37:19] <PetefromTn_> honestly i do not know I have to go out there and crank up the machine and take the files off. We are eating dinner right now.
[00:38:03] <chopper79> i understand... just polished off some pizza myself so I could get on here and get this nightmare figured out.
[00:38:54] <chopper79> my hal looks fine to me, but I am sure I am missing something
[00:39:04] <chopper79> unless 2 mpgs are bad
[00:39:20] <PetefromTn_> amazing how one single charachter can srew up the works in there.
[00:40:12] <Tom_itx> view the encoder outputs in show hal config
[00:40:23] <chopper79> I know I chased one of those issues a year ago for about 6hrs and found that I missed a single character
[00:40:23] <PetefromTn_> good idea.
[00:40:47] <Tom_itx> trace the signal there and make sure it's doing what you think it is
[00:42:36] <chopper79> I have viewed enc0 and the number only goes form 0 to -1 and never 0 to +1 regardless of rotion direction.
[00:43:07] <Tom_itx> i'd look into that then
[00:43:17] <Tom_itx> i bet the mode or something is wrong
[00:43:23] <chopper79> I agree
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[00:43:36] <Tom_itx> but i don't know how PCW does it on the 5i25
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[00:44:12] <Tom_itx> are you using A+ B+ signals?
[00:44:16] <chopper79> so even though I am using inputs 16 and 17 and not an encoder input would I still need the counter mode?
[00:44:17] <chopper79> yes
[00:44:18] <Tom_itx> or A- B-?
[00:44:20] <Tom_itx> or both
[00:44:31] <chopper79> A and B out of MPG
[00:44:39] <Tom_itx> that would just reverse the encoder
[00:44:39] <chopper79> no -
[00:44:46] <Tom_itx> so am i
[00:45:16] <chopper79> correct, I could see if I was using all 4 and I had something backwards but its difficult to mess up 2 wires
[00:45:17] <Tom_itx> do you need any pullups / downs on the inputs?
[00:45:39] <Tom_itx> PCW should be here somewhere
[00:46:08] <chopper79> I believe they are already taken care of, I would have to look at the manual and or consult PCW on that one
[00:46:38] <Tom_itx> check show hal config when you get a chance
[00:46:56] <Tom_itx> start at the encoder pins and trace the signal out from there
[00:47:01] <chopper79> that woint be for 12hrs
[00:47:03] <chopper79> wont
[00:47:19] <Tom_itx> do you have an encoder there?
[00:47:25] <chopper79> got tired of looking at it at work so came home so I could relax
[00:47:26] <Tom_itx> you can test it with an led too
[00:47:37] <chopper79> both are at work
[00:47:41] <Tom_itx> A will be on when B is off
[00:48:16] <Tom_itx> i forget if there's overlap on them...
[00:48:25] <Tom_itx> but one will follow the other
[00:48:34] <Tom_itx> depending on the direction
[00:48:50] <chopper79> I checked with a volt meter when I was down there and both show output but its jumpy
[00:49:19] <Tom_itx> it's probably ok but you need to see the pulse somehow
[00:49:39] <chopper79> Ok
[00:50:13] <chopper79> Since I do not have it in front of me and my work does not have interweb access anything else I can check?
[00:51:22] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_encoder#mediaviewer/File:Quadrature_Diagram.svg
[00:51:32] <Tom_itx> there is overlap
[00:51:43] <Tom_itx> it's how direction is determined. they are 90 deg out of phase
[00:52:07] <chopper79> I see, that woudl explain why my voltage never really dropped
[00:52:13] <chopper79> to 0
[00:52:24] <Tom_itx> that's why i suggeted leds
[00:52:34] <Tom_itx> or just look at show hal
[00:52:42] <chopper79> Need to check my parts bins
[00:53:23] <Tom_itx> you can see it in the watch window
[00:54:07] <chopper79> yes, they both change but seem like that are jumpy also or not consistant
[00:54:48] <chopper79> may take 2 clicks to get one to change and then take a couple back an forth rolls actiosn to get another to change
[00:54:51] <Tom_itx> move the MPG slowly
[00:54:55] <Tom_itx> and watch it
[00:55:17] <Tom_itx> mine changes state _between_ the detents
[00:55:53] <chopper79> mine dont seem to do that if I recall. It flickers and then goes back to the first on that was lit
[00:56:14] <Tom_itx> http://www.pmdx.com/MPG-01
[00:56:14] <chopper79> or not lit at all
[00:56:21] <Tom_itx> that's the one i have
[00:57:20] <Tom_itx> you sure it's quadrature out?
[00:58:14] <chopper79> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=162
[00:59:53] <chopper79> according to this it is quad
[00:59:59] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:00:30] <chopper79> this is the last piece to the puzzle and I can start making parts again
[01:00:47] <Tom_itx> and you're wiring it up to the 7i77?
[01:00:50] <chopper79> Dont like to edge find with out a pendant
[01:01:09] <chopper79> yes on input 16 and 17 and board is set for mode 3
[01:01:18] <chopper79> which is MPG mode
[01:01:30] <Tom_itx> you need to get the pendant output to look like that wiki signal i posted
[01:02:21] <Tom_itx> what other modes does it have?
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[01:08:13] <chopper79> MODE 0 I/O only mode (32 bits of input data, 16 bit of output data)
[01:08:22] <chopper79> MODE 1 I/O plus analog input mode (32 bits of input data, 16 bits of output data, 4 analog input channels on inputs 0..3)
[01:08:31] <chopper79> MODE 2 I/O plus analog input and field voltage mode (32 bits of input data, 16 bits of output data, 4 analog input channels (on inputs 0..3) and field voltage analog in)
[01:08:40] <chopper79> MODE 3 I/O plus analog input and field voltage mode (32 bits of input data, 16 bits of output data, 4 analog input channels (on inputs 0..3), field voltage analog in and 2 MPG encoders on inputs 16..19). Default encoder count mode is 1X to match normal 100 PPR MPGs. Encoder input threshold is fixed at 2.5V for compatibility with 5V encoder outputs.
[01:10:12] <chopper79> seen a post by PCW on linuxcnc
[01:10:15] <chopper79> You change the "sserial_port_0=SOMETHING" parameter in the
[01:10:15] <chopper79> firmware config line at the top of the .ini file to sserial_port_0=M00xxx"
[01:10:15] <chopper79> where M is the mode for the 7I77 field I/O (0,1,2,3)
[01:10:15] <chopper79> Note that the MPG option (mode 3) was added
[01:10:15] <chopper79> recently and may not be present on your 7I77
[01:10:28] <Tom_itx> yeah i did that on mine
[01:10:40] <chopper79> did you use the M
[01:10:52] <chopper79> before putting 3
[01:10:58] <Tom_itx> i don't remember i was just testing a sserial card on that machine
[01:11:05] <chopper79> got ysa
[01:11:07] <chopper79> ya
[01:11:11] <Tom_itx> and the drive isn't hooked up right now or i'd boot it
[01:11:22] <Tom_itx> i'm testing 2.6.1 on a ssd right now
[01:12:20] <chopper79> wonder if I need to go sserial_port_0=M300xxx" instead of just sserial_port_0=300xxx"
[01:12:35] <chopper79> PCW if your on here can you clarify this please
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[01:16:17] <Tom_itx> i don't have mine wired to the sserial card right now
[01:16:28] <Tom_itx> your mode is correct mode3
[01:17:34] <atom1> sserial_port_0=22xxxxxx"
[01:17:43] <atom1> is how i did mine in the config
[01:17:59] <Tom_itx> just the numbers
[01:21:12] <Tom_itx> chopper79, don't use the M
[01:21:36] <Tom_itx> i think it's supposed to be 8 bits wide though
[01:21:47] <Tom_itx> so xxx the unused ones for good practice
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[01:24:38] <chopper79> are you using inputs 16 and 17 or are you using and encoder input
[01:24:57] <Tom_itx> i don't have a 5i25
[01:26:39] <chopper79> so what are your A and B connecting to from your pendant
[01:27:00] <Tom_itx> in contrast my MPG is on IO 4 & 6
[01:27:28] <Tom_itx> i'm using a 7i43 with a 7i47
[01:27:53] <chopper79> # MPG encoder feedback
[01:27:54] <chopper79> #setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.counter-mode 0
[01:27:54] <chopper79> # Set counter-mode to quadrature (1) -- was set to single mode
[01:27:54] <chopper79> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.counter-mode 1
[01:27:54] <chopper79> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.filter 1
[01:27:54] <chopper79> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.index-invert 0
[01:27:55] <chopper79> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.index-mask 0
[01:27:55] <chopper79> setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.00.index-mask-invert 0
[01:28:35] <chopper79> I see your using mpg encoder feedback is that due to you using the mpg as an encoder input
[01:29:08] <chopper79> your input s as encoder inputs from mpg
[01:29:15] <chopper79> I meant
[01:39:51] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:40:02] <Tom_itx> that may be the difference
[01:40:47] <chopper79> well i replaced your hm2 sectiosn of code with my hm2 sections and I am going to insert your hal file into my machine and see what hapens also
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[02:40:40] <pcw_home> sserial_port_0=300xxx is correct for a 7i77x2 config (since it has 6 sserial channels)
[02:40:41] <pcw_home> sserial_port_0=300xxxxx will work also (the extra Xs are ignored)
[02:44:18] <Tom_itx> ok
[02:44:42] <Tom_itx> i just figured they all had 8
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[02:53:42] <chopper79> Thank for clearing that up PCW
[02:54:08] <chopper79> After I got off the phone with you I tested the other pendant and same issue
[02:55:54] <chopper79> I thought about using the config wizard to help setup the mpg but need some clarification on some of the terminology. Is thee a site or wiki that I can read up on mpg setup in Pnconfig?
[02:55:56] <PetefromTn_> what do you think of the quality of those pendants? I am looking for a decent one for the VMC
[02:57:40] <chopper79> They have always did me right when I used them on parallel port setups. Always did good and lasted forever. First time using them on mesa setup so I am sure it will be just as good if not better after its working. I will probably build my own next time just to do it.
[03:00:05] <PetefromTn_> I would prefer to have a tad more functions on it but that really has most of the necessities and I like the rotary switches for axis and step selection.
[03:00:49] <Tom_itx> http://www.kelinginc.net/BreakoutBoards.html
[03:00:56] <Tom_itx> basic
[03:01:07] <chopper79> Yeah since I am not using axis 4-6 I thought about using them for other things such as overides, etc.
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[03:02:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-cnc-pendant.html
[03:03:25] <Tom_itx> most of those are USB
[03:03:36] <PetefromTn_> they do have a wired model.
[03:09:31] <chopper79> does anybody know what the following is..... jog incr A
[03:10:09] <chopper79> Its in the pncConf and does it correspond to an axis?
[03:10:27] <chopper79> same with ..... joint select A
[03:11:09] <chopper79> I could see if it was Jog incr 1 and joint select 1 but its not so what do these match up to?
[03:11:39] <chopper79> nevermind just hit me
[03:13:20] <pcw_home> If it doesnt count it most likely a hardware issue (halmeter hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.enc0 I think is the pin)
[03:13:22] <chopper79> jog incr (#) goes to the X1, X10, X100 and joint select (#) goes to x, y, or Z and they correspond to what inputs I put my wires to
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[03:14:57] <chopper79> pcw_home, that is the line and it counts only in one direction like I was saying on the phone, but does it with two different pendants and I am not sure I how I have two bad one back to back
[03:15:28] <chopper79> possible though
[03:15:31] <pcw_home> this is something to test with a voltmeter
[03:16:32] <chopper79> I did and the readings are all over can not get a good solid reading. The reading will bounce from 2.5v - 0 - 1.3 4 - 1
[03:16:48] <chopper79> I was thinking I woudl be able to get a consistand voltage but I guess not
[03:17:17] <chopper79> consistent
[03:17:31] <pcw_home> with the MPG untouched?
[03:17:43] <chopper79> no when rotation the jog wheel
[03:17:55] <chopper79> untouched I get about 3 - 4 v
[03:18:02] <chopper79> on A side and nothing b side
[03:18:32] <chopper79> it may be hardware issue and I have a couple bad units
[03:18:37] <chopper79> pendants that is
[03:19:18] <pcw_home> both a and b toggle when moving?
[03:19:30] <chopper79> yes
[03:19:48] <chopper79> they both will read when moving
[03:20:01] <chopper79> just nothing jumpy
[03:20:06] <chopper79> but jumpy
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[03:22:00] <chopper79> One of the pendants I too completely apart and redone all the connections so make sure that the wiring was making good contact. no luck
[03:22:54] <tk8196> Good evening. Mesa 7i49 w/ 3 axis mill. had 1 axis working but tuning was a nightmare. Getting weird response that after some searching, looks like the resolvers needed to be run at half the voltage. This requires changing from the aout0 and resolver0 on the 7i49 to aout3 etc respectively. This is the hal file before changing
[03:22:57] <tk8196> http://pastebin.com/4y2Fe2gm
[03:23:13] <chopper79> must be getting tired my typing is getting worse
[03:23:50] <tk8196> I've successfully changed the resolver info to the correct inputs as I can get proper resolver feedback in Axis, however trying to change everythign else over so that the motor output is connect properly has eluded me
[03:30:33] <pcw_home> chopper79: if you only have 3V that may be marginal for the 7I77 inputs (they have a 2.5 v threshold)
[03:31:18] <chopper79> explain please, seems to not make any sense right now
[03:31:33] <pcw_home> might try pullup resistors if they are TTL outputs or check you 5V power at the MPG is they are CMOS
[03:33:00] <chopper79> 4.9v at mpg vcc in
[03:33:42] <pcw_home> you said high A/B level was 3-4V, thats low for a high input to the 7I77 mpg inputs (2.5V threshold with 10% hysteresis)
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[03:34:14] <chopper79> got understood now
[03:34:20] <chopper79> go tit
[03:34:23] <chopper79> it
[03:35:33] <chopper79> so I need to be up closer to 5v then. I have 4.9v input (reading taken at terminal inside MPG)
[03:35:49] <pcw_home> tk8196 only thing that should change would be the resolver channels (assuming you left the analog out connnections unchanged)
[03:36:00] <chopper79> so what would be dropping it down that much?
[03:36:21] <pcw_home> If they are old they may be TTL
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[03:37:40] <pcw_home> I would check the B high level also (probably requires very slow movement of the MPG so set it high)
[03:37:42] <tk8196> I changed the A out as well, when we test, Hal meter would show 10 out and no change with DVM for the AOUT...
[03:38:45] <pcw_home> did you set the PWM mode right for the other channels?
[03:39:17] <chopper79> They are TTL according to the specs
[03:39:28] <chopper79> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=162
[03:39:42] <chopper79> http://cnc4pc.com/images/MPG2_E.jpg
[03:40:06] <pcw_home> and if you read the 7I77 enc0 pin is just counts between 0 and 1?
[03:40:30] <chopper79> yes - 0 and -1
[03:41:51] <chopper79> They work fine with a parallel card and external pendant interface but the interface is also supplied with 5v and takes a lower voltage input from mpg and steps it up to 5v solid to the parallel port inputs. Maybe that woudl explain it
[03:42:51] <chopper79> but I do get some movement on the axis just not correct movement. 0.01 movement will move machine 0.01 and then its puled back to origansl position
[03:43:15] <chopper79> lack of input voltage to the 7i77 from mpg will cause this
[03:43:18] <chopper79> ?
[03:43:46] <pcw_home> and they are wired to inputs 16 and 17 (bottom 2 pins on TB7)
[03:43:55] <chopper79> yes sir
[03:44:50] <pcw_home> maybe to low for the 7I77 to read (you might try a 1K or so pullup resistor on A and B)
[03:45:05] <pcw_home> A and B
[03:45:35] <chopper79> so add a pull up and see if the voltage is higher
[03:45:53] <pcw_home> it will be
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[03:47:34] <chopper79> well need to give it a try then
[03:49:56] <chopper79> first go around with a pull up
[03:50:22] <tk8196> I'm not sure what we did the first time we tried resolver.03 with axis.00 but its functioning now so thank you for your time
[03:50:58] <chopper79> let me get this correct.... take resistor and attach one side to ground and the other to A line?
[03:51:27] <chopper79> increases the load so increases output?
[03:55:12] <chopper79> also all I have close to 1k is 680, and 1.5k resistors. The 1.5k takes care of the " or so" part but this may be to much?
[03:58:48] <chopper79> I have a few 102 1206 package resistors but not sure if I have anyplace to place them in the mpg unlike a through hole resistor.
[04:03:48] <chopper79> or does the pull up go between the 5v+ and the A line? Nothing to ground
[04:04:57] <pcw_home> one side to _5V_ and one side to A
[04:04:58] <pcw_home> same for B
[04:05:25] <chopper79> Ok I found a diagram for pull ups and pull downs so this makes sense now
[04:05:33] <chopper79> slow sometimes... soryy
[04:05:37] <chopper79> sorry
[04:07:04] <chopper79> Well im off to bed I have to be up in 5hrs so go back at this conversion. Thank you all for the help. After I test and work on this some more I will update you with what I find out.
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[07:02:01] <Deejay> moin
[07:05:29] <Deejay> Jymmm, are you sleeping? ;)
[07:05:41] <Jymmm> yes
[07:05:45] <Jymmm> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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[07:07:54] <Deejay> ok, dream well then ;)
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[11:07:04] <skunkworks> wonder if andy has seen this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSIcV710ACk&index=4&list=TLh3aF9unGicfWxL_0sSWGWRiA6g29fXOx
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[12:52:32] <_methods> anyone in here know of a U.S. hot dip aluminizer?
[12:52:50] <_methods> i'm going to talk to AK steel later today
[12:53:17] <_methods> but was just wondering if anyone else in here had ever had parts aluminized after fabrication
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[12:57:23] <CaptHindsight> _methods: http://www.alumiplate.com/ aluminum plating to most conductive substrates, might be beyond your requirements
[12:59:00] <_methods> hmm
[12:59:09] <_methods> i don't see anywhere any specs
[12:59:20] <_methods> like what materials and sizes they can process
[13:00:46] <_methods> ahh ok well i guess they can do f22 landing gear
[13:01:19] <_methods> that might be big enough i'll have to hit them up
[13:01:21] <_methods> thx for the link
[13:01:34] <CaptHindsight> it's pure aluminum on any thing conductive, if it's not conductive it's possible to you an intermediate like Tin and then aluminum plate
[13:01:50] <_methods> it's steel
[13:01:52] <CaptHindsight> sorry for the typos
[13:02:16] <CaptHindsight> no problem, we have even anodized over steel
[13:02:33] <_methods> they're giving me a astm callout for the material though
[13:02:37] <_methods> astm a787
[13:02:39] <archivist> or like printed circuits where they use a conductive carbon layer
[13:02:40] <_methods> t1-25
[13:02:53] <CaptHindsight> I'm not sure how big their chamber is
[13:03:02] <_methods> have to see if aloomiplate fits that astm
[13:07:15] <archivist> thinking of anodizing there is a local steel girder bridge that has had a steel anodising process done on it, very even looking rust
[13:07:24] -!- SolarNRG [SolarNRG!~SolarNRG@213.207.137.7] has joined #linuxcnc
[13:07:26] <SolarNRG> hi guys
[13:07:45] <SolarNRG> I've begun work on my hefty CNC machine, can I show you some photos and ask for your guidance on this matter please?
[13:08:10] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[13:08:16] <SpeedEvil> Is it over 50000lb?
[13:08:21] <CaptHindsight> archivist: is it this type? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel
[13:08:21] <SolarNRG> Hi Speedevil, long time no see?
[13:08:28] <SpeedEvil> hey
[13:08:29] <_methods> the more pics the better
[13:08:31] <archivist> without pics there is no proof
[13:08:38] <SolarNRG> Well its 100mm 5mm thick box steel and 28mm stainless rails
[13:08:46] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[13:08:50] <SolarNRG> Have a browse through my gallery: http://imgur.com/YL75tKq,ck0INho,wLrG7vY,c70t2zX
[13:09:09] <SolarNRG> first image is my idea of rails I'm going for the tri-grip pulley method
[13:09:25] <SpeedEvil> That is quite a big screw you have there.
[13:09:39] <SolarNRG> you think that thread will handle milling mild steel?
[13:10:04] <skunkworks> the threads will - the rails probably wont...
[13:10:05] <archivist> CaptHindsight, dont know, there is another bridge on the same junction that is painted, I was told it was an experiment
[13:10:11] <SolarNRG> third image I wanna know how can I stop my gf's psychology books from getting covered in metal filings and cutting fluid?
[13:10:17] <SolarNRG> the rails are solid bar
[13:10:21] <SolarNRG> 28mm stainless
[13:11:15] <SpeedEvil> 28mm is quite flexy
[13:11:20] <SpeedEvil> unfortunately
[13:11:48] <SpeedEvil> Stiffness goes with thickness ^3
[13:12:21] <SpeedEvil> A 50mm bar is 6 times as stiff as 28mm
[13:12:33] <SpeedEvil> How long is the unsupported length of the bar?
[13:12:37] <archivist> move books to another room
[13:12:56] <SolarNRG> well they are 1.2m lengths but I'm only hoping the entire length of the machine to be a mere 80cm
[13:12:57] <_methods> or kill that bitch
[13:13:01] <_methods> then it won't matter
[13:13:17] <SolarNRG> lol but then who would breastfeed the baby?
[13:13:38] <_methods> haha i didn't say i had a plan
[13:13:40] <_methods> just a solution
[13:14:50] <SolarNRG> if i move the books I can't get hte 100mm beam level
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[13:15:57] <SolarNRG> main thing is eliminating all clatter from the system
[13:16:02] <SolarNRG> that's what leads to innacuracy
[13:16:38] <SolarNRG> and if you're telling me that a 3kw cnc spindle on those rails is going to sag weave and bend then maybe I'm better off NOT drilling a 29mm hole through that but getting hold of some pipe and filling it with concrete
[13:16:43] <CaptHindsight> SolarNRG: try stacking boxes or magazines
[13:17:17] <SpeedEvil> SolarNRG: A 25mm square stainless beam, unrestrained at the ends, and loaded with 100kg in the middle will deflect 1.7mm downwards.
[13:17:29] <SpeedEvil> (the thingy I'm using doesn't do round beams)
[13:17:34] <SolarNRG> that adds up to quite a lot
[13:19:20] <SolarNRG> so I really want stainless rails as thick as the pillar of my drill then
[13:19:28] <archivist> if the bar is bolted to the box at regular points then it would be more sensible
[13:19:45] <SolarNRG> I was planning on spotwelding it into the 29mm holes in the box steel
[13:20:25] <archivist> show us a drawing of the final shape
[13:20:27] <SpeedEvil> If the bar is restrained at the ends - so it can't twist - then it gets better than 1.7mm
[13:20:33] <SolarNRG> hang on
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[13:20:48] <SpeedEvil> this needs actual structural welding - as the forces are quite high
[13:21:08] <SpeedEvil> Scaffolding pole mays suit well
[13:22:17] * archivist worries about squareness of welded structures
[13:25:12] <JT-Shop> are we making a silk purse from a sows ear again?
[13:26:02] <_methods> is this that circle cutter guy again
[13:26:14] <archivist> at least one can use a sows ear to attempt to make a version two
[13:26:25] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[13:26:36] <SpeedEvil> And in principle measuring how crap your machine is is quite easy
[13:26:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Why, you need more trinkets for your ear necklace?
[13:27:43] <SolarNRG> ok here's my diagram of what I'm trying to build: http://i.imgur.com/cnwJyxy.jpg
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[13:29:24] <archivist> move the outer verticals to under the rods
[13:29:30] <Jymmm> skate bearing trucks?
[13:29:41] <SolarNRG> yeah that's my plan, machien it all so it locks together perfectly square and level then weld then fill with concrete
[13:29:52] <SolarNRG> nah heavy duty crane pulleys
[13:30:17] <SolarNRG> jymm: http://imgur.com/YL75tKq,ck0INho,wLrG7vY,c70t2zX#1
[13:30:34] <archivist> but you then mounted the pulleys in thin brackets
[13:31:32] <SolarNRG> I didn;t show it but I've angle grinder cut these /\ shaped bits of metal I'm gonna weld the thin brackets to them on both sides to this 200mmx300mm plate and that's gonna be my linear bearing
[13:31:36] <SolarNRG> 6 pulleys each side
[13:32:02] <SolarNRG> hang on ill take a snap and show u real quick
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[13:38:09] <SolarNRG> here: http://imgur.com/5VAiTzg
[13:38:43] <SolarNRG> these are the brackets I'm gonna weld to the 8mmx20mmx30mm plate and the thin metal brackets
[13:39:04] <SolarNRG> because I know that metal's too unsupported but it worked great as a guide for how to position the pulleys
[13:39:11] <SolarNRG> you think it'll work?
[13:39:29] <SolarNRG> obviously I'm gonna grind off all the brass coating off the thin metal before I begin
[13:40:32] <SolarNRG> I made like 20 of these and only 8 are like perfect, some of them were too thin on one side and didn't "lock in" nicely so I had to sort of cut them too big then grind them down till they were perfect
[13:41:10] <Jymmm> If instead of welding, if you got a block of solid material the same profile, you could get rid of those nut spacers you have, and tap the block to accept the bolt directly
[13:41:50] <SolarNRG> 14mm hss tap? hmm worthy investment
[13:42:26] <Jymmm> ...and the bolts would have less flex/play I would think.
[13:44:15] <SolarNRG> I had doubts over welding the bolts, figured the bearings might "warp"
[13:44:33] <SolarNRG> even just a tac might have irrevocable consequences
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[13:44:49] <archivist> never get bearings hot
[13:45:27] <SolarNRG> my idea was to make a square cut under the 200mmx300mmx8mm plate just big enough to acess the bolts at the bottom
[13:45:52] <SolarNRG> maybe like 150mmx40mm
[13:46:20] <SolarNRG> so the house shaped plates can weld onto the lip the bracket can sit on top snug and there's space to put a socket set in to tighten the bolts
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[13:46:59] <SolarNRG> but I'm having 2nd thoughts now you've told me that 28mm stainless solid bar will sag by 1.7mm
[13:47:02] <archivist> that metal is nowhere thick enough for a metal milling machine
[13:47:53] <SolarNRG> the 8mm thick house brackets? or the 2mm thick standard ones I got bolted into the pulleys?
[13:48:07] <archivist> you need to learn about stiffness
[13:48:15] <archivist> 2mm is puny
[13:48:28] <SolarNRG> right can't I weld over it loads?
[13:49:10] <archivist> think about how it will bend under load
[13:49:13] <SolarNRG> I think you might be right, even with reinforcing it might be too weak
[13:49:16] <Jymmm> Metalagra
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[13:49:53] <SolarNRG> Well we clamped the metal house brackets together and me and my gf both stood on the bar it was fine
[13:49:54] <archivist> and I think you are forgetting any lifting moments in use
[13:50:05] <SolarNRG> but as you say we didn't notice mm bends too small
[13:50:26] <archivist> use a dti to measure bending
[13:50:36] <SolarNRG> link to a good dti?
[13:51:27] <SolarNRG> how well does concrete filled pipe hold up on the old bending just out if interest?
[13:52:11] <SolarNRG> *out of interest
[13:52:22] <archivist> concrete cracks, it is the outer beam which matters
[13:52:42] <SpeedEvil> Unless you prestress it
[13:53:09] * SpeedEvil is in the middle of trying to make prestressed fibreglass concrete panels
[13:53:20] <Loetmichel> what i really ask myself sometimes: what would happen too a pipe bending wise if you put a threaded tod thru it and apply some nuts and lots of pressire to the ends=?
[13:53:21] <SolarNRG> explain?
[13:53:51] <SolarNRG> how about the 5mm thick 100mmx100mm box steel is that any good?
[13:53:59] <archivist> concrete cannot withstand tension
[13:54:46] <SolarNRG> all this talk is making me tense, forgive the pun
[13:54:49] <Loetmichel> archivist,: inside the steel pipe it just acts as a "filler"
[13:54:56] <Loetmichel> not as a load bearing element
[13:55:04] <SolarNRG> sorry all this torque is making me tense
[13:55:08] <Loetmichel> to prevent nicking in of the walls
[13:55:27] <archivist> Loetmichel, are you trying to teach granny to suck eggs?
[13:55:42] <Loetmichel> oh, should i have made a ? at the end?
[13:55:51] <Loetmichel> i meant to ask if that is right
[13:55:51] <SolarNRG> You're right according to this table conrete's got shite tensile strength: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength
[13:56:26] <archivist> Loetmichel, its main use is damping when poured internally
[13:56:42] <SolarNRG> But it says there's this Zylon Polybenzoxazole stuff that's got greater tensile strenght than steel
[13:56:50] <SolarNRG> would pouring that stuff in the machine help?@
[13:56:50] <Loetmichel> wouldnt loose sand better for taht?
[13:57:12] <Loetmichel> for damping
[13:57:18] <SolarNRG> less clatter right
[13:57:40] <SolarNRG> mV=Mv mroe massive machine less momentum
[13:59:01] <SolarNRG> woah tool steel is like 10x the tensile strength of standard stainless!
[13:59:36] <Loetmichel> solar: but it shatters on hammer impact
[13:59:43] <Loetmichel> btdt
[13:59:53] <SolarNRG> yeah the more tense the more brittle
[14:00:19] <SolarNRG> like glass keeps flat until you bend it enough then it smashes and you get a bit of broken glass in ur eye
[14:00:24] <Loetmichel> not a nice feeling when the chisel esxplodes in your fist ,-)
[14:00:50] <SolarNRG> sounds like a lot of stored energy waiting to be released in something that tense
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[14:02:07] <SolarNRG> it says my stainless rods should be about 520 for cold rolled which I'm guessing they are
[14:02:13] <Loetmichel> not stored energy
[14:02:18] <SolarNRG> And my scrap box steel is probably about 448 Mpa range
[14:02:36] <Loetmichel> just a 2kg hammer hitting a chisel and a concrete lump on the other side
[14:02:39] <Loetmichel> *BANG*
[14:02:52] <Loetmichel> <- *picking steel shards from palms*
[14:02:57] <SolarNRG> ouch
[14:03:19] <Loetmichel> and hitting it HARD to drive a 4mm thick steel nail into the concrete
[14:03:44] <Loetmichel> usually it took the happer blows to send a 20mm long 4mm nail into the concrete
[14:04:00] <Loetmichel> and at some time the hollowed chises had enough
[14:04:15] <Loetmichel> three hammer bliows
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[14:05:09] <Loetmichel> http://www.lieske-elektronik.de/artikel_obo-bettermann-3100189-duebel-mit-gewinde-m6x18mm-903__528533.htm
[14:05:12] <Loetmichel> these nails
[14:05:35] <SolarNRG> tungsten's got better tensile strength than most abundant steels
[14:05:49] <SolarNRG> If only you could buy a solid tunsten carbide drill bit it would last like forever
[14:05:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.lieske-elektronik.de/artikel_obo-bettermann-3031012-setzeisen-duebel-903-915__811341.htm this chisesl
[14:06:12] <SolarNRG> got a higher vickers hardness too
[14:07:01] <SolarNRG> You'd probably have to hire an engineer to make you one, can't find any for sale except for offshore drilling companies and they only make ones like really big
[14:07:29] <SolarNRG> so yeah, what's your advice, work with the 28mm stainless bar or not?
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[14:13:49] <SolarNRG> because once I've drilled a 29mm hole in that box steel there's no way I can make it bigger without misalignment
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[14:15:22] <SolarNRG> say I went out and got some 50mm instead, you think solid or pipe? if pipe what thickness u advise?
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[14:21:30] <SolarNRG> guess everybody's gone to sleep, ok thanks for your input guys and thanks for checkign out my wip cnc machine
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[14:25:49] <Jymmm> God luck!
[14:25:53] <Jymmm> Good*
[14:26:33] <Jymmm> this tape will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
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[14:46:47] <PetefromTn_> Mornin' folks
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[15:10:46] <t12> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152539428340659
[15:11:30] <archivist> broken flash was it anything we must see
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[15:18:18] <t12> something about last scissor maker in sheffield
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[15:24:58] <PetefromTn_> Apparently they are making a lot more now and selling them on the internet according to the video. Nice to see real craftsmen making things that last.
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[15:27:28] <archivist> much better link is direct to BBC (already seen it anyway) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28581597
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[15:41:19] <Jymmm> Good interview/video of the scissors... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IitTC4PqcOI (I had no video in the BBC link)
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[15:43:45] <SolarNRG> sheffleild steel good stuff
[15:43:58] <SolarNRG> if its good enough for saddam's supergun then its good enough for a pair of scissors
[15:44:19] <t12> i think the bbc link no work in the US
[15:44:24] <SolarNRG> get a vpn
[15:44:32] <skunkworks> worked here
[15:45:13] <archivist> you should be redirected to the bbc.com site for overseas
[15:54:04] <PetefromTn_> both links worked fine for me here in Tennessee LOL
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[16:09:15] <JT-Shop> anyone have a slick way to hold this part to cut the 10 degree bevel on the top face? http://www.gnipsel.com/images/Briggs/W26%20Cam%20End%20Support.JPG
[16:09:51] <Jymmm> dimensions?
[16:09:56] <Jymmm> apx
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[16:09:58] <ssi> sine bar?
[16:10:01] <SpeedEvil> 10 degree?
[16:10:07] <SpeedEvil> oh - the top face
[16:10:22] <PetefromTn_> maybe put tow of them on either side of the vise sticking out horizontally and cut them that way?
[16:10:36] <SpeedEvil> Freehand it on a belt sander
[16:10:58] <syyl_> tilt the head of the machine by 10deg
[16:11:09] <PetefromTn_> locate with a vise jaw stop.
[16:11:46] <syyl_> or chuck with a 10deg prism in the vice
[16:11:50] <syyl_> and facemill the bevel
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[16:12:33] <JT-Shop> oh no I don't like to tilt the head, but I have a sine bar
[16:12:43] <PetefromTn_> if the bevels on the sides are all the same angle just different depths perhaps order an angled endmill in that degree angle
[16:12:51] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: apx dimensions?
[16:13:00] <JT-Shop> they are the same depth and angle
[16:13:04] <PetefromTn_> then cut it vertically
[16:13:31] <PetefromTn_> so the offset is different then.
[16:13:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is this thing 2" or 12" ? Numbers man, numbers
[16:13:50] <JT-Shop> 2"
[16:14:13] <PetefromTn_> depending on how many you need to make would determine the setup for me.
[16:14:29] <syyl_> for a one of
[16:14:30] <syyl_> on a cnc
[16:14:38] <Jymmm> Could take two #70 drill bits and clamp in a vise
[16:14:40] <syyl_> i would just run it with a ball endmill
[16:14:41] <syyl_> :D
[16:14:42] <JT-Shop> I have 20 some to do
[16:15:02] <syyl_> replace setuptime by machine-time
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[16:15:45] <PetefromTn_> what is the actual angle?
[16:16:01] * JT-Shop has a 5" sine bar but no gauge blocks
[16:16:04] <JT-Shop> 10 degrees
[16:16:24] <Jymmm> Like this --> |%|, where the '/' is the workpiece, the '|' is the vise jaws, and the 'o' are the #70 drill bits crazy glued to the jaws.
[16:16:28] <ssi> no gauge blocks?!
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[16:17:23] <Jymmm> Technically 0.698", but #70 drill t comes the closest to 10 degrees
[16:17:24] <tjtr33> t12, archivist the scissors link to a sign painter for carnivals, gorgeous pin stripping
[16:17:31] <PetefromTn_> I would probably just order a 10 degree endmill and machine it all vertically so you only have one setup and all the angles are correct in relation to one another.
[16:17:37] <SpeedEvil> Jymmm: crazy glue is underused in fixturing.
[16:17:58] <Jymmm> Eh, it's just 20 of them, KISS
[16:18:11] <JT-Shop> it's just a clearance cut
[16:18:11] <Jymmm> then acetone to remove it all
[16:18:17] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, dress 10 degree on wheel and grind it ( looks like a mold insert ) got a grinder ( like harig 6-12)?
[16:18:23] <PetefromTn_> yup but this is a pro shop and I would just eat the cost of the tool over many careful setups
[16:19:07] <ssi> JT-Shop: setup a sine bar and space it with a drill bit
[16:19:11] <ssi> or something similar
[16:19:19] <ssi> it's roughly 7/8" under 5" bar to get ten degrees
[16:19:44] <JT-Shop> I grabbed a 3/4 chunk and my feeler gauges LOL
[16:19:45] <tjtr33> or dont dress wheel, put on magnetic sine at 10 degree, then grind it
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[16:22:40] <tjtr33> http://its.foxvalleytech.com/MachShop5/Surfgrind/MgSnPlt.jpg
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[16:27:25] <JT-Shop> sine bar worked great, thanks for the idea
[16:27:26] <JT-Shop> s
[16:29:48] <tjtr33> cool
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[16:30:42] <tjtr33> speaking of lost trades, remember when knife grinders rolled carts up & down the street? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Knife_grinder-1.JPG
[16:30:59] <cradek> nope
[16:31:06] <tjtr33> haha kids
[16:31:32] <ssi> why sharpen a knife when you can throw it away and buy another one?
[16:32:04] <archivist> our local had it on his bicycle
[16:32:26] <cradek> is this a european thing? I'm old but have never seen it.
[16:32:42] * Jymmm smacks ssi with a dull bread knife!
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[16:33:00] <ssi> bread knives are definitely gonna be dull
[16:33:04] <archivist> methinks they existed stateside too
[16:33:09] <ssi> because NOBODY sharpens serrated blades anymore :P
[16:33:10] <cradek> (I religiously sharpen my own knives)
[16:33:21] <Jymmm> ssi: I do.
[16:33:33] <Jymmm> Well, good ones that is.
[16:33:39] <cradek> I just don't buy/use serrated for that reason
[16:33:45] <Jymmm> not steaks knives ot anything like tht.
[16:34:38] <Jymmm> Dual straight/serrated blades, like leatherman I sharpen both.
[16:35:12] <Jymmm> Only takes a few minutes.
[16:36:14] <Jymmm> How to Set Up and Use a Sine Bar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQAhzW4J4qs
[16:36:48] <archivist> you dont need youtube you just need paper sine tables
[16:37:17] <archivist> or a clinometer :)
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[16:44:46] <tjtr33> JT-Shop, i'd agree that dots in comp names would confuse the interpreter, becuz the dot means something like 'son-of' like 'bar' in ancient names
[16:45:03] <tjtr33> so was surprised gene said it 'used ta work'
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[16:51:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:52:05] <IchGuckLive> bussy day here in the channel logs
[16:54:10] <IchGuckLive> SolarNRG: great wip cnc
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[16:55:39] <IchGuckLive> what a nick hi z_
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[16:57:50] <IchGuckLive> Guest60461: please identify real nick
[16:58:46] <Guest60461> IchGuckLive, just a bit of an issue normally it says zeitue
[16:59:11] <IchGuckLive> ah ;-)
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[16:59:53] <IchGuckLive> so from today the area of burningman is under construction
[17:00:08] <zeitue> should be fixed now
[17:00:17] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:00:58] <asah> PCW: ok checked the lash today. it is more like .1 of rotor angle. better than I thought.
[17:11:07] <pcw_home> and thats geared down to the ball screw?
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[17:27:04] <JesusAlos> hi
[17:28:12] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:30:25] <JesusAlos> I was install a clean V2.5 and don't appear real time delay error with the same configuration and the same PC
[17:30:55] <JesusAlos> was try too with V2.6 Devian and run ok too
[17:31:52] <IchGuckLive> Nice
[17:32:00] <IchGuckLive> did you got the timing numbers down
[17:32:18] <IchGuckLive> dirsetup < 45000
[17:47:40] <asah> pcw_home: yes. just did the calcs on the ballscrew and that equals .125mm lash
[17:48:12] <asah> the ballscrew pitch is 5mm, the quadrature counts per mm on the motor side is 6400
[17:48:32] <asah> the reduction motor pinion -> ballscrew is 4:1
[17:49:02] <asah> IE my ENCODER_SCALE works out to be 6400
[17:50:34] <archivist> asah, what sort of machine?
[17:50:44] <asah> maho 400e
[17:51:12] <archivist> hmm well worn
[17:52:33] <asah> I am measuring this in a pretty sloppy way on the motor side.
[17:53:09] <asah> so hopefully its less in the real world.
[17:53:29] <asah> it has glass scales, so its not the end of the world
[17:53:44] <asah> but it effects my control loop setup.
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[17:58:00] <IchGuckLive> hi InsideJob
[17:58:21] <IchGuckLive> its better to be involved then stand out
[17:59:52] <JT-Shop> whew done with the 4 nests... bust ass mode = off
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[18:06:57] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: how has been the day so long
[18:07:40] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: was finishing a release at work, pretty busy
[18:07:57] <IchGuckLive> take your time ;_9
[18:08:03] <kfoltman> on a happier side, got a pair of SBR16-600
[18:08:14] <kfoltman> + carriage blocks
[18:08:25] <IchGuckLive> 2 per rail
[18:08:34] <IchGuckLive> so 4 total ?
[18:08:43] <kfoltman> yes
[18:08:52] <IchGuckLive> cool setup to go witth
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[18:10:20] <JesusAlos> I'm going to attend to my family
[18:10:23] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: http://stores.ebay.de/cnc-discount/Gruen-Green-Set-16mm-/_i.html?_fsub=2622094013
[18:10:40] <JesusAlos> by
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[18:13:12] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: yeah, I'd have to move to Germany ;) "Postage: May not post to Ireland - Read item description or contact seller for postage options."
[18:13:48] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: the customs from HK charged me 40 euro (on top of 65 euro paid for rails)
[18:14:01] <IchGuckLive> i got most stuff for the 200 mashines from him
[18:14:07] <kfoltman> I mean, the Irish customs of course, not HK :)
[18:14:49] <CaptHindsight> sure but Ireland has better Stout :p
[18:15:38] <kfoltman> to be fair, I'm buying linear rails more often than stout ;)
[18:16:04] <IchGuckLive> since yesterday Russia blocks all the stuff and the dayly direct train from chongching to Berlin
[18:16:45] <IchGuckLive> ok im off For today there is a chicken BBQ in town need to get me some wings
[18:16:52] <IchGuckLive> BYE
[18:16:53] <kfoltman> heh
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[18:18:15] <CaptHindsight> kfoltman: did you find s source from HK that has linear bearing blocks that aren't "crunchy" when you slide them?
[18:21:29] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: the SBR16 aren't too crunchy, but they are kinda loud
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[18:22:00] <kfoltman> I'm wondering (sorry, noob question) - the carriage blocks leave a lot of blackish powdery residue, is that normal?
[18:22:00] <CaptHindsight> I don't know if they use square bearings or just assemble them next to a sandbox
[18:22:38] <kfoltman> as in, ball bearings with cubic shaped "balls" ? (-:
[18:22:58] <CaptHindsight> black powder on the rails? are they packed full of grease or dry?
[18:23:18] <kfoltman> there's some oily stuff on the bag insides, but they don't feel greasy
[18:23:32] <kfoltman> I put some 3-in-1 on them though
[18:23:59] <archivist> 3 in 1 ew
[18:24:02] <CaptHindsight> do they have grease fittings?
[18:24:11] <kfoltman> the carriages? no
[18:24:26] <kfoltman> just the two set screws
[18:24:31] <CaptHindsight> what size are they? Have a pic?
[18:24:39] <kfoltman> they're SBR16UU
[18:24:43] <kfoltman> let me make a pic
[18:25:15] <kfoltman> archivist: what would you use?
[18:25:21] <kfoltman> instead of 3 in 1
[18:25:41] <archivist> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16mm-linear-slide-guide-shaft-SBR16-600mm-2-rail-4-SBR16UU-bearing-block-CNC-set-/161188859108?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item25879acce4
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[18:27:01] <kfoltman> archivist: yes, that exact item from that exact seller I think :)
[18:27:28] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: http://i.imgur.com/YCzzHut.jpg
[18:27:33] <archivist> I searched your part number
[18:28:21] <kfoltman> archivist: still, it's sold by 3 or 4 ebay accounts (perhaps more if you search from ebay.com and not .ie)
[18:28:50] <kfoltman> some sellers' listings don't appear on the .ie version, for some odd reason
[18:28:51] <archivist> how often are the rods screwed to the base
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[18:29:17] <kfoltman> archivist: 150mm, same as mounting holes
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[18:37:29] <kfoltman> the 16mm ones aren't as bad as the 12mm ones I have
[18:37:49] <kfoltman> at least the balls don't tend to fall out of the bearings from just looking at the rail from wrong angle ;)
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[18:52:21] <CaptHindsight> kfoltman: unfortunately those are about the quality of the bearings you'll find on low cost sliding miter saws
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[18:56:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23993.jpg
[18:56:38] <archivist> with or without the saw dust
[18:57:16] <CaptHindsight> the saw dust comes prepacked in the blocks so no dust shield is required :p
[18:57:39] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: they're good enough to mill an occasional PCB or temporary enclosure
[18:57:54] <CaptHindsight> yeah, don't expect more or long life
[18:58:46] <kfoltman> spending 2000+ euro for decent quality rails, bearings and ground C3 screws makes no sense if the machine is running 15 minutes a day at most
[19:00:07] <CaptHindsight> not sure about your area, but I find used profile bearings on ebay all the time that last me for years
[19:00:07] <kfoltman> though the way they cut the bearings open suggests they stopped hiring children and started hiring semi-blind monkeys and letting them play with angle grinders ;)
[19:00:46] <gabewillen> I'm in the middle of retrofitting a fellows gear shaper. I thought i would join the ARM movement and purchased a BBB + PBX-BB(Probotix) cape. Everything work's fantastic on the software side. I am powering the BBB with a 5v ac-dc adapter, that runs through a 220v to 110v step down transformer inside the machine.
[19:01:01] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: I bought some second hand "proper" linear rail and (I think ground) ballscrew, I'm using it for the Z axis
[19:01:03] <gabewillen> The machine turns on buy energizing 110v coils that close the 220v circuit to drive the motors. I am using a 4 channel 5v opto-isolated relay board. I'm powering the PBX-BBB cape with a 12v ac-dc adapter on the same transformer.
[19:01:30] <gabewillen> The issue is the BBB locks up when opening the circuit to turn the machine off. I believe its a back emf issue with the 110v relays. The BBB toggles the same relay perfectly if connect with an extension chord to a separate 110v outlet.
[19:02:11] <kfoltman> gabewillen: could it be a voltage dip issue as well?
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[19:03:19] <gabewillen> I was thinking that originally
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[19:04:27] <gabewillen> I hooked a scope up to it the adapter is producing a smooth 5.1v. On relay toggle however i get up to 15v spikes.
[19:04:56] <Tom_itx> you need a diode across the realay
[19:04:59] <Tom_itx> relay
[19:05:09] <kfoltman> gabewillen: is it due to poor line regulation, or is it a pulse induced in the 5V cable?
[19:05:16] <gabewillen> I have a identical machine that i retrofitted using a PC a few years ago. It has no issue's
[19:05:28] <ssi> relay board ought to have flyback diodes across the relay coils
[19:05:33] <ssi> if it doesn't, you should add them
[19:05:49] <kfoltman> ssi: shouldn't matter anyway, it's powered from a different PSU from what he says
[19:05:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.douglaskrantz.com/Flyback_Diode.html
[19:06:10] <CaptHindsight> gabewillen: ^^^
[19:06:13] <kfoltman> ssi: as in, it is necessary but lack of it wouldn't show up as locked up BBB
[19:06:14] <ssi> that won't necessarily preclude ground bounce
[19:06:16] <gabewillen> http://www.sainsmart.com/4-channel-5v-relay-module-for-pic-arm-avr-dsp-arduino-msp430-ttl-logic.html
[19:06:23] <kfoltman> ssi: and it's optoisolated
[19:06:32] <cradek> the opto22 oac5a will switch 240VAC directly with 5v logic in
[19:07:08] <gabewillen> I purchased this temporarily while i await a pcb board to be manufactured.
[19:07:27] <ssi> yeah I have some of those
[19:07:33] <ssi> they have diodes onboard
[19:07:37] <ssi> damn those things are everywhere now :)
[19:07:51] <kfoltman> ssi: I'd suspect the dc adapter for the bbb
[19:08:11] <gabewillen> Thats what i thought as well. I already have tried placing additional diodes.
[19:08:20] <kfoltman> gabewillen: can you run it with a different adapter?
[19:08:32] <zeeshan> http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-08/6/11/enhanced/webdr07/anigif_enhanced-buzz-29480-1407339983-20.gif
[19:08:47] <kfoltman> gabewillen: also, did you check the input voltage with power adapter *switched off*?
[19:08:52] <cradek> if you're switching 240v you may have to use real hardware and not this $5 hobbyist crap
[19:09:03] <zeeshan> lol cradek
[19:09:10] <gabewillen> read the above post its temporary
[19:09:24] <gabewillen> i got it in one day from amazon
[19:09:32] <kfoltman> gabewillen: I mean, for voltage spikes coming from induced voltage, not from poor line regulation
[19:09:47] <kfoltman> if you have a big ass motor directly next to BBB :D
[19:10:02] <kfoltman> or wrapped your 5V cable around the motor cables ;)
[19:10:28] <gabewillen> No its mounted well away from it. Also its not driving 220v its driving a opto-isolated 5v relay that drives a 110v relay that engages the coil
[19:10:34] <cradek> http://www.amazon.com/Opto-22-G4OAC5A-Isolation-Current/dp/B00597V2CY
[19:10:45] <gabewillen> A similar set up on the sister machine next to it works without a hitch
[19:11:02] <kfoltman> gabewillen: tried swapping power adaptors?
[19:11:07] <kfoltman> with the working one
[19:11:23] <kfoltman> some 5V adaptors are really bad
[19:11:40] <kfoltman> "may burn your house down" level of bad
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[19:11:56] <gabewillen> No i haven't but the 5v adapter work's on a separate 110v outlet
[19:12:19] <zeeshan> why do you guys worry so much
[19:12:30] <zeeshan> if someone wants to blow up stuff
[19:12:31] <zeeshan> let them!
[19:12:38] <zeeshan> that's how you get awesome youtube videos
[19:12:49] <cradek> that's true
[19:13:03] <gabewillen> The board im waiting on will have a 5v switching supply built into it.
[19:13:29] <kfoltman> gabewillen: perhaps nobody designed that adaptor for up to 2x voltage spikes from rapidly switched on and off inductive loads
[19:13:44] <gabewillen> perhaps...
[19:13:50] <zeeshan> usually you use contactors
[19:13:56] <zeeshan> for switching inductive loads
[19:14:24] <zeeshan> i've welded relays together in the past
[19:14:30] <zeeshan> trying to switch 1hp motor loads
[19:14:30] <zeeshan> :D
[19:14:31] <gabewillen> it is using a contactor, i'll snap a picture... The machine is from the 1940's
[19:16:58] <PCW> If you are switching a AC relay you probably need a arc suppression device across the relay coil
[19:17:34] <gabewillen> I was thinking about implementing a zero-crossing detector
[19:17:40] <zeeshan> pcw isnt that usually built into a relay
[19:17:42] <zeeshan> or a contactor
[19:17:48] <zeeshan> the pads of it
[19:17:50] <PCW> doesnt help with relays
[19:18:14] <zeeshan> gabewillen: if you put a resistive load
[19:18:17] <zeeshan> like a light bulb
[19:18:19] <zeeshan> can you switch it?
[19:19:33] <PCW> unless you have arc suppression you will get picosecond risetime 100's of volt spikes
[19:20:26] <PCW> a noise pulse radio transmitter
[19:20:27] <gabewillen> http://postimg.org/image/joxzvbc0v/
[19:20:33] * kfoltman likes zeeshan's idea
[19:20:48] <gabewillen> wow thats blury
[19:20:51] <gabewillen> hold on
[19:22:03] <zeeshan> do you have 110v test light?
[19:22:09] <zeeshan> that you can tap in there temporarily
[19:22:43] <gabewillen> Yes
[19:22:48] <zeeshan> try it out
[19:23:10] <gabewillen> could serve two purposes, signify if the operator is running the machine or not from afar
[19:23:13] <gabewillen> :)
[19:23:29] <kfoltman> gabewillen: it mostly to check if the crashes are due to EMF :P
[19:24:24] <gabewillen> I was just kidding... I actually install a buzzer to signify the part is completed
[19:24:49] <kfoltman> unsupervised CNC machine? *waits for the future youtube videos*
[19:26:19] <zeeshan> i crashed my lathe the other day
[19:26:20] <gabewillen> No its supervised the operator has to redin deburr the parts while its running
[19:26:22] <zeeshan> spindle wasn't turning
[19:26:29] <zeeshan> had the jog speed at 100ipm
[19:26:42] <zeeshan> tool went directly into a 1/2" 6061 piece that was between centers 10" long
[19:26:46] <zeeshan> it bent it
[19:26:46] <gabewillen> http://postimg.org/image/kmfwkammd/
[19:26:53] <zeeshan> now i can use my lathe as a rod bender
[19:27:17] <gabewillen> Clearer image of the circuitry
[19:27:56] <zeeshan> haha
[19:27:58] <zeeshan> thats pretty old school
[19:28:05] <kfoltman> less blurry for sure, whether it's "clear" is questionable ;)
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[19:28:21] <gabewillen> Yeah i can't stop shaking for some reason to take the picture
[19:28:47] <CaptHindsight> the control cabinets of a new Enco lathe look similar
[19:29:01] <gabewillen> I'll try the light bulb, be back in a few
[19:29:52] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: BTW, if you're in the States, the availability of cheap 2nd hand linear motion components is much greater
[19:30:19] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/lathe/P6140010.jpg
[19:30:22] <kfoltman> for me, it's either China or Worse Korea
[19:30:24] <zeeshan> thats my lathe's factory system
[19:30:27] <zeeshan> before it went cnc :P
[19:31:18] <PCW> anything that old is not likely to have snubbers
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[19:31:51] <_methods> anyone going to IMTS?
[19:32:10] <PCW> snubbers will also save your 110v relay contacts
[19:32:14] <CaptHindsight> \0
[19:32:50] <_methods> i might go this year
[19:32:56] <_methods> i should have gone to the vegas one
[19:33:14] <CaptHindsight> _methods: I've thought about a small tabletop demo for Linuxcnc
[19:33:26] <_methods> that would be cool
[19:33:45] <_methods> you have a booth there?
[19:34:03] <PCW> or use a SSR to drive the contactor (since they have 0 current turnoff )
[19:34:31] <CaptHindsight> _methods: no, it's local for me and I could have or share
[19:34:38] <_methods> ahh
[19:40:28] <gabewillen> Okay the 110v light is a fail
[19:40:39] <gabewillen> switched on and off about 5 times before the BBB froze
[19:41:15] <CaptHindsight> anyone know the current requirements to get certified to purchase freon and other regulated refrigerants?
[19:41:21] <zeeshan> sounds like a software error
[19:41:21] <gabewillen> PCW i'm not familiar with a snubber but i'll google it
[19:41:30] <zeeshan> you dont need a snubber for a light
[19:41:40] <zeeshan> its a resistive load
[19:41:55] <gabewillen> zeeshan: it works flawlessly plugged into a separate 110v outlet still
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[19:42:33] <gabewillen> Im starting to wonder if its the adapter
[19:42:35] <CaptHindsight> it used to be you could just walk in and take the test at certified retailers of HVAC supplies
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[19:43:09] <gabewillen> When i tested it with the separate outlet i used a usb cable cell phone charger for testing.
[19:43:56] <gabewillen> I can solder 2 pins on the PBX-BB cape and power the BBB from the 12v adapter
[19:44:34] <gabewillen> i'll swap out the adapter really quick
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[19:55:34] <gabewillen> Who would of thought this cheap ass cell phone charging adapter would work better than the linksys 5v adapter i had laying around
[19:55:42] <gabewillen> Seems to be working
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[19:56:12] <gabewillen> Thanks for the help zeeshan
[19:57:29] <gabewillen> Along with the others, PCW im still going to heed your advice on the snubber's
[19:59:26] <PCW> In general its a good idea to reduce EMI and contacts opening on inductive loads are known offenders
[20:01:00] <PCW> (an AM tuned off channel radio is a good test sensor)
[20:01:02] <gabewillen> Would it be better if i removed that system and switched to something more modern
[20:01:09] <PCW> AM radio
[20:01:27] <gabewillen> Just use a relay to drive the load directly
[20:02:07] <gabewillen> or perhaps a 3 phase motor drive, then i could adjust the speed without changing the pulley as well
[20:03:47] <PCW> using a SSR to drive the contactor might help if the noise issue is from the 110 control power
[20:04:22] <gabewillen> Damn it locked up again.... while testing it for a longer duration.
[20:05:05] <gabewillen> I feel like an even bigger idiot as though it "locked up" yet i just ssh'd into it.... i bet its the touch screen haha
[20:05:43] <PCW> USB?
[20:05:49] <gabewillen> this is why i don't ask for help, usually its something so simple its embarrassing
[20:05:56] <gabewillen> yes
[20:06:21] <PCW> might check the kernel logs for USB errors
[20:06:30] <gabewillen> doing that as we type
[20:06:35] <Jymmm> snap on torroid does wonders
[20:07:23] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks_: do you use Linuxcnc for any of your machines that aren't machine tools?
[20:08:01] <gabewillen> I do! though the question is not directed towards me
[20:08:50] <CaptHindsight> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZW4hGbRAhs a quilting machine using Linuxcnc
[20:11:10] <Smidge204_> Someone's really enjoying the plugins that came with the video editing software, that's for sure
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[20:12:21] <Jymmm> Ya know, it's always amazed me how/what a sewing/quilting/embroidery machine do what they do. Especially for as long as they have been around.
[20:12:59] <Jymmm> Even the foot powered ones are pretty sweey.
[20:13:05] <CaptHindsight> I'm considering making a Linuxcnc controlled weaving or knitting machine
[20:13:06] <Jymmm> sweet*
[20:13:47] <gabewillen> PCW: It seems to be a USB issua
[20:13:54] <gabewillen> issue*
[20:13:57] <CaptHindsight> 3 days for installation, 21 days waiting for parts, sounds about right for automation
[20:14:09] <PCW> USB is quite noise sensitive
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[20:19:15] <gabewillen> I always try to get away with cheap, and it never works in an industrial environment.
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[20:31:03] <skunkworks_> CaptHindsight: I use linux for servers and my main laptop
[20:32:20] <skunkworks_> oh - missunderstood - Not at the moment.. But when you use linuxcnc you start to see it for a solution to a lot of automation problems.. (well - I did use it as a logger to evaluate other motion control software... )
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[20:33:48] <ssi> I'm thinking about putting some automation in place to run a solenoid in place of the main ball-valve on my shop air compressor, and also a relay on the dryer
[20:34:00] <ssi> so any machine that comes on can fire a remote signal to ask the air system to turn the air on
[20:34:08] <ssi> and have an inactivity delay shutoff or somethigv
[20:34:19] <CaptHindsight> skunkworks_: that quilting machine is neat, the majority of the machines I have used it on don't have any cutting tools
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[20:51:22] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:23:40] <TheChance> Hey, guys. I was referred here from another channel. I'm trying to cut small circles from PVC using an 1/8" spiral up. Trouble is, when the bit exits, it brings the part with it, throws it across the room, and ruins the edge. I can't take a lead-out, I can't switch bits, what CAN I do?
[22:24:27] <TheChance> I've been running 100 IPM down, 200 IPM cuts at 22k RPM.
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[22:24:40] <cradek> how small?
[22:25:41] <alexchally_cnc> Hey guys, got a question. I am trying to enable a pin on my mesa 7i37, but I can't figure out which pin corresponds to OUT0
[22:26:00] <alexchally_cnc> I *think* the command should setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.***.out 1
[22:26:10] <alexchally_cnc> where *** is the pin number on my mesa pci card
[22:26:27] <alexchally_cnc> but I am not sure which pin to actually use
[22:26:51] <cradek> have a look at page 4 of the 7i37 manual
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[22:27:54] <cradek> I think you are right about the command
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[22:28:01] <alexchally_cnc> cradek, I have, and putting 033 does not seem to do it
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[22:28:15] <alexchally_cnc> now, the other thing is the 7i37 is on the second ribon cable, pins 24-47
[22:28:34] <SpeedEvil> TheChance: can you stop the bit in the part?
[22:28:47] <cradek> aha, then 033 will be wrong
[22:28:50] <cradek> let's see...
[22:28:56] <alexchally_cnc> so I was thinking that I needed to add an offset of 24 to the pin number, so it becomes 24+33= 57
[22:29:02] <alexchally_cnc> but that does not work either
[22:29:11] <cradek> if you look at dmesg you can see the mapping
[22:29:23] <cradek> lines like hm2/hm2_5i25.0: IO Pin 030 (P2-10): IOPort
[22:29:28] <cradek> (of course mine is different)
[22:29:51] <cradek> you need to look at the one that says P3-33 I think?
[22:29:55] <TheChance> cradek: about 1/2". SpeedEvil: I... don't know. I'm an apprentice, and my boss is on vacation :( I suppose I could simply pause the program, remove the part, and allow it to continue. I hadn't thought of that.
[22:30:06] <alexchally_cnc> [ 55.367150] hm2/hm2_5i23.0: IO Pin 040 (P3-33): IOPort
[22:30:22] <PCW> the top 8 I/O of the connector are outputs so GPIO 40,,47
[22:30:23] <cradek> if it's plugged into P3 that's the one
[22:31:11] <cradek> so yeah, sounds like 040 is it
[22:32:14] <PCW> you need to set the is_output and (probably) invert_output parameter for each output pin
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[22:35:50] <alexchally_cnc> pcw, so these three lines? setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.040.is_output 1
[22:35:51] <alexchally_cnc> setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.040.invert_output 1
[22:35:51] <alexchally_cnc> setp hm2_5i23.0.gpio.040.out 1
[22:37:04] <Tom_itx> isn't the last one the signal?
[22:37:11] <PCW> well normally you would not setp the .out pin
[22:37:37] <alexchally_cnc> I wanted to hardcode it so it would keep a relay on for now
[22:37:46] <alexchally_cnc> well, an SCR, but whatever
[22:37:48] <PCW> but for testing that should turn it on
[22:38:19] <alexchally_cnc> and that should apply +5v between OUT0+ and OUT0-, correct?
[22:39:14] <alexchally_cnc> as long as the jumper is in the Cable position
[22:39:36] <PCW> Nope, it will connect OUT0+ to OUT0-
[22:39:52] <alexchally_cnc> ahhhh
[22:39:56] <alexchally_cnc> k.
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[22:40:45] <PCW> note that if you connect backwards it will be always on (1 diode drop)
[22:41:11] <PCW> 1A max 48V max
[22:41:43] <alexchally_cnc> k. is there a 5v header anywhere on the board, or do I need to include an external PSU?
[22:42:49] <PCW> No it can be cable powered (unless its more than say 15 feet away)
[22:43:34] <PCW> Yay 7I92 works!
[22:43:34] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, sorry, not for powering the board, but to use as a supply to turn on my scr
[22:43:57] <Tom_itx> it would need a common ground
[22:44:39] <PCW> all the OUTN+ and OUTN- are isolated so they connect from whatever power you have to whatever load you have
[22:45:33] <PCW> (there are no common power or ground terminals on the 7I37TA at all)
[22:45:49] <PCW> (inputs are the same)
[22:46:43] <PCW> all outputs are just floating switches
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[22:56:30] <sharpen047> hey guys, i was hoping someone could help me with my boot issue on linux cnc. its a p4 system and has been running emc for about 2 years now. it started yesterday and wont load past the loading mouse animation. i can move the mouse but the animation is frozen. it boots up in low graphics mode as well.
[23:08:59] <PCW> bad harddrive/video card?
[23:09:37] <alexchally_cnc> PCW, awesome, that worked for me. What is the command to map that pin to the AXIS enable button?
[23:11:37] <alexchally_cnc> that is, i want to hit the enable button in axis and have it energize that relay
[23:27:44] <alexchally_cnc> also.. i seem to be unable to see any signals on halscope :/
[23:29:02] <alexchally_cnc> nm wrt: halscope
[23:31:45] <sharpen047> windows works on the same box. low graphics mode works.
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[23:42:24] <PCW> maybe a monitor issue (EDID quit working)
[23:42:26] <PCW> hard to guess but unless you changed something, sounds like broken hardware
[23:43:57] <sharpen047> pcw: any chance i could track it down? took out everything but video card and ram
[23:44:21] <sharpen047> different monitor, keyboard/mouse and so on because its in the house now. not the garage
[23:44:56] <PCW> try the hardrive in a different PC?
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[23:47:43] <sharpen047> i dont really have any more p4 systems
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[23:51:29] <sharpen047> if i get to a terminal can i do anything else? i have recovery mode and low gfx mode works
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[23:53:36] <PCW> boot into the memory test
[23:54:08] <sharpen047> booting now
[23:54:57] <sharpen047> oh ok background shows noise fail calibration failed
[23:55:06] <sharpen047> running mem test now
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