#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-07-05

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[00:00:00] <CaptHindsight> have you run the latency test yet on either?
[00:00:10] <anarchos> nope
[00:00:25] -!- rob_h [rob_h!~robh@2.217.96.57] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:02:21] <Aero-Tec> upgraded to 10.04
[00:02:32] <Aero-Tec> can not get networking to work
[00:02:45] <CaptHindsight> anarchos: if the nettop doesn't have LPT then you'd have to use ethernet
[00:02:51] <Aero-Tec> keeps asking for password but one is not needed
[00:03:31] <Aero-Tec> any ideas?
[00:04:03] <CaptHindsight> ubuntu always asks for the password to change network settings
[00:04:04] <Aero-Tec> got 2 other linux units talking to my windows unit
[00:04:14] <Aero-Tec> not change
[00:04:17] <Aero-Tec> connect
[00:04:33] <Aero-Tec> it does not show up on my windows box
[00:04:38] <Aero-Tec> the other 2 do
[00:04:45] <Aero-Tec> not sure why
[00:04:51] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: delete all the network connections
[00:05:02] <CaptHindsight> then create a new one
[00:05:04] <anarchos> CaptHindsight, yeah. not sure if i want to go ethernet or get a new PC for the mill
[00:05:06] <Aero-Tec> on the new upgrade?
[00:05:26] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: yes, if it's acting odd
[00:05:30] <Aero-Tec> the new linux unit?
[00:05:35] <Aero-Tec> ok
[00:06:11] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: I've had funny issues with the connection manager in ubuntu
[00:06:25] <Aero-Tec> deleted, now what?
[00:06:40] <CaptHindsight> create a new wired connection
[00:07:41] <Aero-Tec> connection name, will that be the name of the computer that show on the network?
[00:07:47] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: and enter all the settings, then save
[00:08:22] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: no, that's just the name for set of settings
[00:09:15] <Aero-Tec> how do I set up the computer name for network?
[00:09:18] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: when you installed Ubuntu it asked you for the name of the computer
[00:09:46] <Aero-Tec> can I change it now?
[00:10:01] <CaptHindsight> I forget how in 10.04, let me check
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[00:10:41] <anarchos> what's up with eBay sellers having a "submit best offer" option that's nearly exactly as the buy it now price?
[00:11:09] <anarchos> submitted an offer of $64 for something that was $64.99 and it was declined :P
[00:11:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.wikihow.com/Change-Your-Computer-Name-in-Ubuntu
[00:11:39] <CaptHindsight> anarchos: never had that happen for a price that close
[00:12:26] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxgizmos.com/open-linux-hummingboard-sbc-goes-on-sale-starting-at-45/
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[00:17:03] <anarchos> i was looking at that today
[00:17:18] <anarchos> does linuxcnc run on arm? :)
[00:17:29] <CaptHindsight> yes
[00:19:05] <LeelooMinai> SOme people run versions of it on Beaglebone Black and it's ARM, so yes
[00:19:11] <CaptHindsight> tested on the cubie2 and the bigotboardblack so far,
[00:19:25] <CaptHindsight> and the UDOO
[00:19:50] <LeelooMinai> I wonder if it could run on that banana pi
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[00:20:12] <LeelooMinai> I think it's only $50 or so
[00:20:13] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: should be fine, we're finishing up the howto
[00:20:38] <CaptHindsight> banana pi is $30
[00:20:50] <LeelooMinai> Where? In ali it's $50 or more
[00:20:54] <LeelooMinai> On ali*
[00:20:56] <CaptHindsight> on debian
[00:21:15] <LeelooMinai> What debian...?
[00:21:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bananapi.org/
[00:22:07] <LeelooMinai> It's the target price, but I don't think one can buy it for that (?)
[00:22:09] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc on debian for the allwinner A20 boards
[00:22:34] <anarchos> what about raspberry pi?
[00:23:34] <CaptHindsight> I forget, i think some had some variation of Linuxcnc on the Rpi, it's even run on an old mini2440
[00:23:48] <anarchos> hmm, because I have a RPi
[00:23:51] <CaptHindsight> and sam9 400mhz
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[00:26:19] <CaptHindsight> https://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/
[00:26:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ls5ta7eg8
[00:26:54] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc (emc2) running on Pico-SAM9G45 ^^^
[00:28:50] <CaptHindsight> linuxcnc also runs on https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/
[00:29:15] -!- bertrik has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
[00:29:19] <CaptHindsight> https://www.olimex.com/Products/SOM/A20/
[00:30:48] <CaptHindsight> LeelooMinai: that aliexpress sire has only sold 8 units, i wonder if they are just buying them at $30 and reselling
[00:31:19] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/A20-Dual-core-Development-Board-1GB-Banana-Pi-better-than-Cubieboard-compatible-with-Raspberry-PI/1822518984.html?af=ppc&isdl=y&src=Google&albch=Google&albcp=Search_Search-ALL-PLA&albkw=None_US-Shopping-Search-Product-AliExpress_none_none&albag=home_none_Search-ALL-PLA_1013999999870&albmt=broad&albst=search-text&albom=OTHERS_None_20130807_Aliexpress&creative=3144745
[00:31:19] <CaptHindsight> 1305&ptsid=1013999999870&gclid=CNv-4rX1rL8CFUc0aQodpbcAoQ
[00:31:39] <CaptHindsight> sorry for the flood
[00:31:42] <LeelooMinai> Well, this is 262 orders: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-Banana-pi-fully-compatible-with-Raspberry-Pi-cubieboard-with-Gigabit-ethernet-port-SATA-Socket/1839648169.html
[00:33:24] <CaptHindsight> heh $52, I'd wait a few weeks
[00:34:42] <Aero-Tec> got it fixed
[00:34:53] <Aero-Tec> 2 computers had the same name
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[00:35:16] <CaptHindsight> Aero-Tec: why did you do that? :)
[00:35:52] <LeelooMinai> He named one of them Bob, then decided to use that name in reverse for another one
[00:38:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.knowhowtec.de/
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[00:48:11] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RaspbianXenomaiBuild
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[00:49:14] <CaptHindsight> anarchos: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RaspbianXenomaiBuild
[00:50:02] <Aero-Tec> thanks for the help
[00:50:14] <anarchos> awesome, thanks
[00:50:25] <Aero-Tec> I was installing on 3 comps at the same time
[00:50:39] <Aero-Tec> and did not know what I was doing
[00:50:41] <Aero-Tec> lol
[00:51:02] <Aero-Tec> one had a easy way to change the name
[00:51:11] <Aero-Tec> not sure why the others did not
[00:51:32] <anarchos> i don't even know much about my RPi
[00:51:41] <anarchos> i wonder if that's a legit lpt header on it
[00:55:34] <Aero-Tec> looks like the upgrade to 10.04 screwed up emc2
[00:55:55] <Aero-Tec> it was a old install
[00:56:10] <Aero-Tec> it will not run now
[00:56:13] <Aero-Tec> not sure why
[00:56:39] <kengu> sounds reasonable
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[00:58:07] <Aero-Tec> not even in the applications list
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[01:09:23] <kengu> emc2 is replaced by linuxcnc in more recent versions. but still there are reasons not to upgrade the system under. I did similar upgrades on a new install and figured it was not too good idea..
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[01:19:01] <Jymmm> kengu: emc2 and linuxcnc are only a name change, nothing else.
[01:20:06] <LeelooMinai> They could name it emc^3 :)
[01:20:32] <Jymmm> LeelooMinai: Not according to the lawyers
[01:23:14] <gkamysz> aero, my upgrade was taking hours so i just gave up used the disk. other than video compatibility it was easy
[01:26:28] <kengu> Jymmm: true on that also. i should have stated renamed
[01:26:38] <Jymmm> =)
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[02:12:54] <Tecan> happy jul 4 from your northern neighbors
[02:13:35] <Jymmm> Tecan: Happy Putine To you!
[02:13:47] <Jymmm> poutine
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[03:09:52] <anarchos> welp, just bought 3 controllers :D
[03:10:40] <anarchos> need to decide on a breakout board and motors now
[03:12:07] <jdh> motors that work with the controllers!
[03:13:00] <anarchos> :P
[03:18:17] <RyanS> With this style of tool be good for quality finishing passes? http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-611/indexable-iso-standard-lathe/Detail
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[04:29:54] <ssi> hrm
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[05:11:09] <anarchos> are there any other cnc related irc channels/
[05:11:20] <anarchos> like ones not just for linuxcnc?
[05:13:07] <RyanS> You can't grind carbide blanks on a standard bench grinder is that right?
[05:17:24] <ssi> sweet, have linuxcnc running on beaglebone and moving an axis via CRAMPS board
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[05:17:27] <ssi> that's promising
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[05:35:37] * zeeshan-laptop is tapped into a wifi network at the beach
[05:35:37] <zeeshan-laptop> :D
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[05:47:35] <RyanS> are thin slitting saws, more dicey that the thicker. Actually, what would produce minimal vibration, a small diameter & relatively thin?
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[06:47:52] <Deejay> moin
[06:48:47] <Jymmm> Ug
[06:52:32] <RyanS> Do reduced shank drill bits suck?
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[12:14:21] <jthornton> no
[12:17:49] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:18:07] <SpeedEvil> In more detail.
[12:18:42] <SpeedEvil> A reduced shank drillbit always performs worse than a full-sized one. The major caveat is 'if you have something that can take the full shank'
[12:18:52] <SpeedEvil> It's almost always better than an adaptor of any sort.
[12:19:46] <SpeedEvil> And in many, even most cases, it may be quite adequate. In some cases, the smaller shank may mean that chucks slip, or machines won't be designed for the torque - but lubrication, feed rates, sharpening, and predrilling out most of the hole can help
[12:23:38] <syyl_ws> reminds me of the 40mm drillbit that i had to turn the shank down to 10mm
[12:23:43] <syyl_ws> to fit in a cordless drill
[12:23:54] <syyl_ws> perfectly safe ;)
[12:24:20] <syyl_ws> worked fine in wood
[12:24:21] <syyl_ws> Oo
[12:24:31] <syyl_ws> i suggested a forstner bit
[12:24:36] <syyl_ws> "no, this is cheaper!"
[12:32:51] <SpeedEvil> hah
[12:33:10] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes improper solutions are better
[12:35:26] <syyl_ws> such a large drill with the tiny shaft just looks stupid
[12:35:27] <syyl_ws> :D
[12:35:44] <syyl_ws> i always feared that someone will chuck it up in the milling machine to drill steel ;)
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[13:28:18] <JT-Shop> so they still don't suck
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[13:57:37] <SpeedEvil> It depends. If you expect them to be as capable as a full shanked bit - then they may well
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[14:01:12] <gkamysz> S&D drills are sold by metal working suppliers, so there must be some demand. You would only use it to enlarge a hole, then the loads are small.
[14:01:18] <syyl_ws> issnt there even a "common name" for those?
[14:01:21] <syyl_ws> demming bits?
[14:01:27] <syyl_ws> or something like that
[14:01:30] <gkamysz> silver and demming
[14:01:39] <syyl_ws> !
[14:01:40] <syyl_ws> thanks :D
[14:03:02] <gkamysz> syyl what kind of cam are using using for lathe?
[14:03:45] <syyl_ws> left/right hand ;)
[14:03:52] <syyl_ws> i have no cnc lathe
[14:04:08] <syyl_ws> the postprocessor sits between my ears ;)
[14:04:13] <archivist> I use inside rear of skull cam
[14:04:20] <gkamysz> oops someome else then
[14:04:33] <syyl_ws> i would use creo/nc because i have access to it
[14:04:44] <syyl_ws> or cambam..
[14:06:54] <gkamysz> anyone using hsmXpress for lathe?
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[16:24:17] <Aero-Tec> the upgrade to 10.04 was a huge pain
[16:24:26] <Aero-Tec> could not get things to run
[16:24:38] <Aero-Tec> installing off the live CD
[16:24:41] <XXCoder> morning
[16:24:45] <Aero-Tec> morning
[16:26:53] <XXCoder> upgrade eh? I probably would just backup important files and do fresh install
[16:26:59] <XXCoder> unless you have lots of OS tweaks
[16:27:04] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr3BXrbmxe4&feature=youtu.be 8 axis CNC
[16:27:53] <Jymmm> What XXCoder said
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[16:36:34] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:36:41] <XXCoder> hey supercnc
[16:37:26] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[16:37:40] <IchGuckLive> K6MLE: did you use your holiday wright
[16:38:32] <IchGuckLive> today i made my first V-shape bearing CNC
[16:39:29] <IchGuckLive> Nice but there is real concern as there is no fix at the upforce only G-force
[16:39:53] <IchGuckLive> SBR uses 4point at 25% more price
[16:40:21] <MrSunshine> weight/counter bearings? =)
[16:40:48] <IchGuckLive> yeah the Y is good to use it by X is not the best
[16:41:07] <MrSunshine> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/943353_10151856091243648_172953772_n.jpg incase the link works
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[16:41:42] <MrSunshine> atleast on my machine i cant find any problem with lift so far in the axis. . sure if i plunge to fast with a bit not realy made for plunging
[16:41:48] <MrSunshine> but then its not cutting in the center so :P
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[16:46:04] <IchGuckLive> agree on that even the plasma design wit the 2Z axis is capable of using it
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[17:06:43] <IchGuckLive> Hurricane arther is realy going up the east cost USA
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[17:15:12] <XXCoder> http://s.likes-media.com/img/aa4eb5b3e306eaefbfd060a667c74802.600x.jpg lol
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[17:21:21] <XXCoder> still waiting for my parts
[17:21:24] <XXCoder> so slow :P
[17:22:32] <IchGuckLive> you got time its a lng way to x-mas O.O
[17:22:47] <XXCoder> lol
[17:24:40] <XXCoder> wonder if this is true. https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10513378_10154378963025078_6768189224429024883_n.png
[17:24:45] <XXCoder> deaf so cant tell :P
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[17:30:21] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You're deaf?
[17:30:29] <XXCoder> born deaf
[17:30:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: So, nobody has ever signed to you in an "accent"?
[17:30:51] <XXCoder> it exists
[17:30:54] <Jymmm> LOL
[17:30:56] <XXCoder> signed accent that is
[17:31:04] <Jymmm> that's funny
[17:31:35] <Jymmm> Now, is it an "accent" or just slang?
[17:31:42] <IchGuckLive> ok im off have a nice DAY BYE
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[17:31:57] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Now, is it an "accent" or just slang?
[17:32:07] <XXCoder> nah there is regional signs and differences
[17:32:19] <XXCoder> so sometimes you can tell where guy was rainsed in
[17:32:33] <XXCoder> in other actual accent. not "accent" or slang
[17:32:49] <Jymmm> Ah. A friend used to use slang, so I had nfc what she was signing
[17:33:19] <Jymmm> ...especially since I only know my ABC's
[17:33:35] <Jymmm> oh, and to tell her she's full of shit.
[17:34:44] <XXCoder> lol
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[17:46:31] <XXCoder> wow
[17:46:33] <XXCoder> http://interestingengineering.com/3dsystem-create-ekocycle-3d-printer-that-turns-coke-bottle-into-just-about-anything/
[17:48:03] <XXCoder> bah they do recycle part not us
[17:48:09] <XXCoder> result is expensive cardiages
[17:48:18] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder:it's just an FDM that uses PET
[17:48:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.solidsmack.com/fabrication/yarr-students-3d-print-a-boat-made-from-recycled-milk-jugs/
[17:48:46] <XXCoder> yea jus thought we would be able to use bottles and print with em
[17:48:57] <Jymmm> Yeah... bastards!
[17:49:00] <XXCoder> yeah saw that before. nice!
[17:49:09] <Jymmm> I was looking for the hole to insert bottles into
[17:49:10] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: it's 3D systems, the only thing they want to do is make money with as cheap and old tech as possible
[17:49:40] <XXCoder> without direct recycle its just yet another glue gun
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[17:50:20] <CaptHindsight> their original inventor of SLA (Charles Hull) sold off most of his 3D Systems stock last year
[17:50:51] <XXCoder> "Also so you have to pay to buy cartridges of recycled “junk”. Wouldn’t it be better to create something that turned the bottles into the cartridges and then prints them all in one package."
[17:50:58] <XXCoder> smart guy replies
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[17:51:32] <XXCoder> "“filament cartridge contains 25% of post consumer recycled materials” it says in the small print at the end. What this commercially inclined superficial pop star is saying is just a downright lie. This machine does NOT convert your own pet-bottles into print wire at all. Just arrogant eco-commercial nonsense, trying to make money on the naďve eco-fashion."
[17:51:50] <XXCoder> last reply by guy that read everything apparently
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[17:53:11] <XXCoder> wow http://www.designboom.com/technology/president-obama-3d-printed-bust-national-portrait-gallery-06-25-2014/
[17:53:23] <XXCoder> hes first in more than one way
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[18:03:50] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: making a plastic shredder is pretty easy, if you move the part vs the print nozzle it's also simple to make an extruder that can handle shredded PET
[18:04:22] <XXCoder> yeah yet all printers go inkjet route :(
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[18:05:41] <Jymmm> Forget shredding, direct melt =)
[18:06:51] <XXCoder> thats bit more challenging im sure
[18:07:00] <XXCoder> I rather make a unprinter
[18:07:11] <XXCoder> theres couple designs out there
[18:08:40] <CaptHindsight> you probably want to shred it to make smaller PET particles vs 1 gallon jug size pieces
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[18:10:04] <archivist> and you need to remove the congealed detritus too
[18:10:21] <Jymmm> shredding will help the melting process, but that's about it. Shredding is a mechanical process and PET is pretty tough, so I'd try to overcome with "heat guns" of sorts.
[18:10:24] <Jymmm> archivist: detritus ???
[18:10:32] <Jymmm> archivist: slug?
[18:10:36] <Jymmm> sludge?
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[18:11:06] <archivist> anything not PET
[18:11:18] <Jymmm> Oh, like the priginal contents
[18:11:22] <Jymmm> original.
[18:11:40] <Jymmm> Eh, gives it "character" =)
[18:11:42] <archivist> the paper label, the glue on the label the spit around the screwtop
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[18:12:28] <Jymmm> Right, I got ya now. I have no clue how one would do that is a single "cube" machine
[18:13:01] <Jymmm> unless it floats to the top or something.
[18:13:22] <XXCoder> two seperate devices is better
[18:13:28] <XXCoder> 3d printer and unprinter
[18:13:28] <archivist> think about the bit of metal seal left on a milk carton
[18:14:21] <Jymmm> archivist: I know what you are talking about, but USA soda bottles don't have that type of seal, it's all built into the cap itself.
[18:14:35] <XXCoder> http://www.filastruder.com/products/filastruder-kit
[18:14:41] <XXCoder> this is filment maker
[18:14:54] <Jymmm> untwist cap, breaks seal, "ring" remains on bottle.
[18:16:18] <CaptHindsight> stop selling milk, make better use of the resources, or at least ship it with the water removed
[18:16:35] <Jymmm> Ewwwwwwwwwwwww
[18:16:45] <XXCoder> it already exists
[18:16:48] <XXCoder> powered milk
[18:16:52] <XXCoder> powdered
[18:16:57] <XXCoder> nobody likes it
[18:16:58] * Jymmm smacks CaptHindsight with a 55gal drum of powdered milk!
[18:17:15] <XXCoder> theres probably barrels of em older than you
[18:18:00] <CaptHindsight> that the problem, it's part of a system that people don't really want to change
[18:18:15] <XXCoder> system if liking stuff that taste good?
[18:18:16] <CaptHindsight> it's not a tech problem, it's culture
[18:18:19] <XXCoder> *of
[18:18:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Powdered milk tastes like shit is the problem!
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[18:19:09] <XXCoder> to me powdered milk tastes like impure water
[18:19:13] <Jymmm> The "best" powdered milk is Nido, by Nestle as it's whole fat, but still not the same thing.
[18:19:20] <XXCoder> fuck nestle
[18:19:25] <XXCoder> owned by koch bros
[18:20:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If dehydrated things were perfect wehn reconstituded, then the next time you cremate grandma, JUST ADD WATER to restore!
[18:20:58] <Jymmm> XXCoder: Who are Koch Bros?
[18:20:59] <XXCoder> cremating isnt same
[18:21:11] <XXCoder> american assholes. lemme get summary
[18:21:35] <Jymmm> Nestle is a swedish/swiss company I thought
[18:22:24] <XXCoder> Jymmm: you might be right, I hate them too, they bought a crical water river and make people who used to use it for free to pay for it
[18:22:26] <XXCoder> http://www.boycottkochbrothers.com/
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[18:23:24] <XXCoder> http://naturalsociety.com/nestle-drains-water-arkansas-rivers/
[18:24:56] <CaptHindsight> most people that get into science aren't stupid, most of these problems aren't technical hurdles, they are political or societal
[18:26:35] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:26:49] <Jymmm> XXCoder: That's sad, as I really like most of Nestle's products too.
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[18:27:00] <XXCoder> me too
[18:27:15] <XXCoder> I used to buy nestle drink once a while. stopped for 2 years now
[18:27:41] <XXCoder> I try my best to avoid unethical companies but its hard. expecially tech :(
[18:28:04] <Jymmm> Well they also own Stoffers, and other thigns too
[18:28:28] <XXCoder> oh fyi dont buy apple
[18:28:33] <XXCoder> they opwn slaves
[18:28:59] <Jymmm> That boycott link you gave says "Teflon", which is owned by Dupont.
[18:29:10] <kfoltman> who owns Dupont?
[18:29:21] <Jymmm> XXCoder: you mean cinese labor?
[18:29:28] <XXCoder> worse
[18:29:29] <archivist> the pension funds, you
[18:29:33] <XXCoder> abused chinese labor
[18:29:43] <XXCoder> they has lots "interns"
[18:29:56] <XXCoder> half already kousy pay and hella hours
[18:30:21] <CaptHindsight> and don't forget Hobby Lobby :)
[18:30:32] <XXCoder> yeah boycotted that too
[18:30:36] <kfoltman> XXCoder: you mean foxconn? half of the industry uses foxconn for mass manufacturing
[18:30:38] <XXCoder> companies arent people
[18:30:40] <Jymmm> XXCoder: This message created on a Mac. (c) Apple computer Inc.
[18:31:09] <XXCoder> kfoltman: exactly. I'd have to throw out 3/4 of my tech stuff :(
[18:31:18] <XXCoder> thats why its so hard when tech related
[18:31:41] <Jymmm> XXCoder: So, but a LCD display MADE IN USA.... Oh wait, doesn't exist.
[18:31:46] <Jymmm> buy*
[18:32:19] <XXCoder> yeah
[18:32:44] <Jymmm> XXCoder: You'll have to find a 1970's Curtis Mathis TV. Those were made in the USA.
[18:32:53] <XXCoder> lol
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[18:33:13] <Jymmm> They were the last TV's made in USA iirc.
[18:34:32] <CaptHindsight> why did that happen?
[18:34:40] <XXCoder> greed
[18:35:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Why no longer made? Cheaper to import.
[18:35:12] <XXCoder> my answer was shorter
[18:35:17] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: not everyone likes to have smelly factories around
[18:35:17] <CaptHindsight> so stop encouraging greed, simple
[18:35:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ppl don't REAPAIR tvs today, we replace them.
[18:35:37] <XXCoder> Jymmm: most current tech is one peice unfixable thing
[18:35:41] <Jymmm> Disposable Society
[18:35:45] <kfoltman> Jymmm: that's just the cost of rapid progress
[18:35:49] <XXCoder> not even batteries is repklaceable
[18:35:55] <CaptHindsight> but who is going to do that?
[18:35:57] <kfoltman> Jymmm: everything gets totally obsolete after 1-2 years
[18:36:17] <CaptHindsight> yes, it best for short term profit
[18:36:23] <XXCoder> obsolete dont always mean useless
[18:36:30] <Jymmm> kfoltman: Think so? Look at Cuba with all the Packards they have still operational down there.
[18:36:30] <XXCoder> I use some pretty old tech thats still great
[18:36:41] <XXCoder> my pc is 8 years old. phone is 3 years old, touchpad
[18:36:53] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: but you're not a good consumer, report for retraining
[18:37:04] <kfoltman> it will stabilize once Moore's law will stop working
[18:37:04] <Jymmm> kfoltman: Ask archivist to link you to the museum he helps out at
[18:37:26] <kfoltman> but, as it is, using an old PC with lots of power consumption and little processing power is just nonsense
[18:37:31] <XXCoder> sure, pay me $2000 a month to buy stuff and I will start buying around $1000 a month of stuff a month!
[18:37:52] <XXCoder> kfoltman: my pc was riciously powerful in its day
[18:38:13] <XXCoder> its now just a little bit below standards and still adread in others
[18:38:30] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder: sorry too late, that's not how an oligarchy works
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[18:38:35] <Jymmm> kfoltman: There's a mentality of "newer, shinier, better" but that's not always the case. "Oh, windows 213, let me upgrade" sorta thing.
[18:38:58] <kfoltman> Jymmm: well, CPUs getting faster/more efficient is not just mentality
[18:39:03] <kfoltman> they're objectively better
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[18:39:08] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: and that isn't by accident, people have been trained to think that way
[18:39:08] <Jymmm> kfoltman: Not in 10 years.
[18:39:25] <kfoltman> Jymmm: they'll stop getting faster in 10 years
[18:39:39] <kfoltman> but, as it is, we've gone from "utter crap" to "not crap"
[18:39:40] <kfoltman> which is good
[18:39:54] <Jymmm> kfoltman: XP still runds perfectly fine. What has Win7 or 8 given you that's "better"? A different GUI, that that's just fluff.
[18:40:07] <kfoltman> we're approaching the physical limits, as opposed to wasting energy on heating up transistors
[18:40:17] <Jymmm> windows is wondows and hasn't changed any in 20 years
[18:40:23] <kfoltman> oh really?
[18:40:28] <Jymmm> Really!
[18:40:33] <CaptHindsight> it's more of a mentality of want vs need that's the problem
[18:40:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: yep
[18:40:59] <kfoltman> Jymmm: I'm not tracking the progress in Windows, but look at the Linux kernel now vs 10 years ago
[18:41:16] <Jymmm> kfoltman: it's worse?
[18:41:29] <kfoltman> Jymmm: kernel-wise?
[18:41:35] <Jymmm> kfoltman: That dev's now think in speed to release instead of quality ?
[18:41:37] <kfoltman> worse, how?
[18:42:39] <Jymmm> Just look at FF. How many YEARS of updates have they had and they still have a memory leak
[18:42:55] <kfoltman> it's not "a memory leak"
[18:42:56] <CaptHindsight> kfoltman: is your point that efficient electronics are better?
[18:43:00] <Jymmm> They wont bother going back and ficing it, just add more fluff.
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[18:43:22] <Jymmm> FF is now bloated crap.
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[18:43:35] <kfoltman> Jymmm: you sound ignorant
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[18:43:47] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: well, my point is that during the period of rapid progress, it's not a smart choice to hold on temporary stepping stones
[18:44:01] <Jymmm> kfoltman: hahaha, you think so huh? Go for it.
[18:44:08] <kfoltman> Jymmm: seriously, you are trolling, aren't you?
[18:44:33] <Jymmm> kfoltman: No, just tired of all the bullshit that is passed off as "progress"
[18:44:36] <kfoltman> Jymmm: or you ignoring the amount of memory profiling efforts that went into fixing various memory issues in Firefox and various add-ons?
[18:45:04] <kfoltman> Jymmm: and other efforts to increase efficiency (several generations of JIT compilers, for example)
[18:45:10] <Jymmm> kfoltman: I'm tlaking the 70% system ram usage for a couple of windows open.
[18:45:24] <kfoltman> the current version of Firefox is still slow - but that's because we get more and more of Javascript
[18:45:50] <Jymmm> 30.0 is serious crap, they broke something in it.
[18:45:57] <kfoltman> have you looked at all the crap that websites load?
[18:46:01] <kfoltman> especially without adblock
[18:46:12] <Jymmm> Nope, ABP is my friend.
[18:46:21] <kfoltman> and adblock itself is not without its problems
[18:46:51] <Jymmm> If ABP had "block list" for chrome, FF would be gone.
[18:47:30] <kfoltman> well, what ABP does is evaluating a whole bag of rules for any HTTP request issued from the browser, and another bag of rules related to CSS elements
[18:47:33] <kfoltman> that *must* be slow
[18:47:43] <kfoltman> blame the advertisers
[18:48:04] <kfoltman> all the spying/tracking, all the intrusive audio-video crap
[18:48:21] <kfoltman> so we need ABP just to defend from all that
[18:48:30] <Jymmm> Goes far beyond marketing and more into XSS stuff.
[18:48:37] <kfoltman> it's insane
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[18:49:01] <Jymmm> And the crap google is pulling now, makes it much worse.
[18:49:14] <Jymmm> YouTube, a google company sorta thing.
[18:49:32] <kfoltman> but, if you took a relatively modern CPU and ran mostly limited, slimmed-down software, it would be super-fast
[18:49:43] <jdh> like a chromebook!
[18:50:06] <Jymmm> If that were the case, then I could run DOS programs SCREAMING fast. I've tried, it doens't work that wa.
[18:50:38] <jdh> I haved some dos apps that are still fast.
[18:50:52] <jdh> they are still running on a 486 though
[18:51:16] <Jymmm> jdh: Sure, but not compared the the power of a i5 vs 386dx
[18:51:47] <jdh> no, but for this app, it doesn't matter (TIG weld data collection)
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[18:52:07] <Jymmm> I tested a 386Dx against a P3 800, That should have been 10x faster. it wasn't.
[18:52:18] <kfoltman> Jymmm: running native code or emulation?
[18:52:25] <Jymmm> bare metal
[18:52:43] <kfoltman> BTW: it isn't 10x faster, the RAM is still lagging behind
[18:52:47] <kfoltman> not to mention disks
[18:53:10] <Jymmm> I STILL use DOS, I have things on CF/uSD cards
[18:53:30] <kfoltman> but, audio synthesis on 386DX was some pathetic 8 channels of linearly interpolated resampling
[18:53:44] <kfoltman> audio synthesis on core 2 quad = polyphonic modular synth
[18:53:59] <Jymmm> I dont do audio
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[18:54:25] <Jymmm> If I want signal processing I just use DSP/FPGA
[18:54:26] <kfoltman> well, anything audio/video/DSP usually benefits a lot from the newer CPUs
[18:54:48] <kfoltman> DSPs are a bit overrated, I'd say
[18:55:07] <Jymmm> Again, I dont do audio.
[18:55:23] <kfoltman> they have some nice features, but I'm not too excited to try them
[18:55:24] <Jymmm> But I do pull in a full RF spectrum.
[18:55:32] <kfoltman> FPGAs, yes, at the lower end
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[18:55:55] <kfoltman> I'm trying to learn to do DSP on FPGAs, but it's a slow process for me
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[19:00:25] <anarchos> so if i have 3 motors at 36V that can do 4.2A max, that's a tad under 500 watts...
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[19:00:47] <anarchos> all the PSU seem to max out at 36V/9.7A
[19:00:55] <anarchos> or...the ones that CNC4PC sell
[19:01:24] <anarchos> 'spose I'd never really max out all three axis' at once
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[19:15:17] <Loetmichel> anarchos: servo or stepper?
[19:16:12] <anarchos> stepper
[19:18:01] <Loetmichel> steppers with 36V are NEVER drawing 4.2A
[19:18:12] <Loetmichel> or they would be sized like a truck starter
[19:18:34] <anarchos> o yea?
[19:18:37] <anarchos> perfect :D
[19:18:41] <Loetmichel> i am nearly sure your steppers have a few volts, < 5V preferably
[19:18:59] <Loetmichel> so the stepper controller acts like an SMPS
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[19:19:32] <Loetmichel> and steps down the voltage to the point that the couils have the rated current flowing
[19:20:11] <anarchos> i see
[19:20:15] <Loetmichel> but that means that at 36V there are NOT 4,2A per coil, but MUCH less. (of your motors have 2,6V rated voltage about a thenth)
[19:20:48] <Loetmichel> so your PSU has to be rated for roughly a fitht of the combined current to have some headroom
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[19:21:15] <Loetmichel> i successfully have run 3 3.6V 1A steppers on a 36V 2A supply
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[19:22:53] <anarchos> awesome.
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[19:29:24] <anarchos> all the steppers on eBay seem backwards to me...
[19:29:43] <anarchos> 6.35 (1/4") shaft on the rear, witha 8mm on the front
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[19:29:51] <anarchos> i need 1/4" on the front :P
[19:30:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: kinda low voltage there
[19:30:43] <Jymmm> for bipolar
[19:32:24] <kfoltman> anarchos: I got screwed the same way
[19:32:44] <kfoltman> worse, I got some stupid couplers with 1/4" bore instead of 6mm
[19:32:58] <kfoltman> (yeah, I'm aware that it's not couplers that are stupid)
[19:33:08] <kfoltman> heh
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[19:33:59] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: its the usual voltage for good high speed steppers
[19:34:30] <Loetmichel> because if you want high speed you'll have to overvoltage them at least 10 times to get the current flowing instantly
[19:34:44] <Loetmichel> because of the high inductance these have
[19:34:59] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: 20-25 times I believe is the "norm"
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[19:35:26] <Loetmichel> the steppers on my old big machine were rated 2.4V / 3A per phase
[19:35:36] <Loetmichel> ... and were supplied by a 45V PSU ;-)
[19:35:45] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: "at least"
[19:36:03] <kfoltman> the voltage rating is only for non-current-controlled operation, right?
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[19:36:11] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: rgiht
[19:36:36] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: your example was 10x, not 20x
[19:36:42] <pcw_home> its just the I*R drop at the rated current
[19:36:52] <Loetmichel> my example was my home machine
[19:36:53] <mrec_> I wonder is there something like a direct gcode interface available in linuxcnc? eg. like with grbl just open the serial port and send g-code
[19:37:08] <Loetmichel> and i said at least 10 times
[19:37:32] <Loetmichel> mrec_: why use linuxCNC at all then?
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[19:37:53] <pcw_home> makes it a bit hard to do run from line...
[19:37:59] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: because of more complete implementation of g-code?
[19:38:00] <mrec_> Loetmichel: to drive the controller?
[19:38:07] <Loetmichel> just cp gcode.ngc /dev/usbtty*
[19:38:15] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: there are many reasons why grbl is inadequate
[19:38:17] <kfoltman> or may be
[19:38:32] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i know. he doesent it seems ;-)
[19:38:36] <mrec_> I'm using grbl for a custom pick and place machine so far
[19:39:14] <kfoltman> !
[19:39:20] <Loetmichel> can grbl now interpret full 3d code?
[19:39:29] <Loetmichel> or still only 2.5d code?
[19:39:52] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: full 3d as in arcs in arbitrary plane?
[19:40:00] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: correct
[19:40:06] <mrec_> pick and place doesn't need to be so complex
[19:40:27] <Loetmichel> last i heard grbl could only interpoalte in xy, z moves had to be seperated
[19:40:35] <Loetmichel> but that was a long time ago
[19:40:41] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: G17/18/19 seem to be implemented, but never used them
[19:41:00] <kfoltman> it can do XYZ interpolation
[19:41:05] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i meant the lookahead and accerleration code
[19:41:53] <Loetmichel> last time i looked it made bad errors when moving all three axis simuntaneously
[19:42:14] <Loetmichel> especially when the z has a different accelereation/resolution/vmax than xy
[19:43:11] <kfoltman> I've used XYZ for milling simple cutouts using the spiral descent, didn't *seem* wrong
[19:43:26] <kfoltman> but, I'm a CNC n00b
[19:44:17] <mrec_> I'm loosing steps occasionally however the vision system corrects it
[19:44:40] <kfoltman> I had some problems with stalls when moving axes simultaneously, but that's just because my power supply is 0.5A or so :D
[19:44:40] * SpeedEvil passes mrec_ an e.
[19:46:08] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: creme?
[19:46:29] <mrec_> well as long as it works, finetuning is coming afterwards
[19:47:32] * kfoltman is intrigued by the idea of using a vision system
[19:47:58] <kfoltman> not for routing, of course, but for pick and place, or solder paste dispenser, or even a laser exposer
[19:48:57] <SpeedEvil> kfoltman: I can design for you a really simple low-res vision system that's perfect for that. Only two pixels per axes.
[19:49:06] <SpeedEvil> Ok, ok, it's an optical encoder.
[19:49:39] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: well, I would hope to correct for badly placed boards and skewed bed, so I doubt your system would work nicely
[19:51:42] <mrec_> little bit dust and the components are placed next to the pcb
[19:52:08] * SpeedEvil quacks.
[19:52:31] <SpeedEvil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdGSFc7VjBE
[19:52:41] <SpeedEvil> Some random hints for quick hand SMD assembly
[19:52:49] <SpeedEvil> Not quite on topic - but sort-of-relevant
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[20:00:32] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: brilliant!
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[20:24:49] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: hrhr, seems good advice. i do it a bit less "sorted" though ;-)
[20:24:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/Fc13_smd_loet.avi
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[20:54:07] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:06:31] <anarchos> hmm
[21:07:12] <anarchos> i thought i had it all figured out but now I'm second guessing myself :P
[21:08:36] <Loetmichel> anarchos: hows that?
[21:09:17] <anarchos> just about wiring my motors to my controller
[21:11:52] <anarchos> s/controller/driver
[21:13:26] <anarchos> like...motor goes to the driver, driver goes to breakout board, breakout goes to controller (PC)
[21:14:01] <Loetmichel> so far so good...
[21:17:38] <anarchos> i'm just confused as to where the actual power for the motors come from. like i'm thinking the breakoutboard is sending signals to the driver with 5V (or 3.3) that it's getting from the parallel port
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[21:20:49] <anarchos> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/images/4030D.JPG
[21:20:54] <mrec_> Loetmichel: you have a lot time ^^
[21:21:45] <anarchos> so a+/-, b+/- go to the motor, and the input from power supply would be on +Vdc and GND?
[21:22:06] <jfigie> anarchos: the power for your motors comes from +Vdc on the Microstep drive
[21:22:14] <Loetmichel> mrec_: hmm?
[21:22:29] <mrec_> applying solder one after each other onto each pad
[21:22:55] <Loetmichel> anarchos: gnd and +VDC i would think
[21:23:09] <Loetmichel> there should be a PSU with a few 30V or so
[21:23:34] <anarchos> yeah i'm thinking of getting a 36v PSU
[21:24:49] <Loetmichel> mrec_: its the easiest way when you have no solder paste and an pizza oven
[21:25:09] <Loetmichel> ... and have to figure out which omponent has to go where ;-)
[21:25:26] <Loetmichel> (thts why i had the circuit plans there)
[21:27:35] <anarchos> hmm
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[23:07:18] <cabbage_breath> anybody have any experience with capacitive THC for oxy-fuel machines or even using it for initial height control for plasma?
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[23:23:30] <humble_sea_bass> i use thc for high control all the time
[23:29:58] <Markus_> Hello, have anybody experience with a mirrored new zero by Button or Pendant with pyvcp
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