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[01:32:55] <tjb1> Anyone know of a cheaper PLC off hand?
[01:33:23] <CaptHindsight> tjb1: cheaper than?
[01:33:33] <jdh> automation direct
[01:33:36] <tjb1> $100?
[01:33:43] <jdh> or linuxcnc + IO card
[01:34:37] <CaptHindsight> ebay used for that low
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[01:44:14] <SpeedEvil> Or an arduino clone
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[01:49:22] <Jymmm> BBB + lcnc ?
[01:49:43] <Jymmm> or that BBB+ardunio hybrid
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[01:51:42] <SpeedEvil> BBB + LCNC - with PRU support would be awesome
[01:52:29] <Jymmm> pru?
[01:52:52] <SpeedEvil> The PRUs are two 200MHz 32 bit processors on-die.
[01:53:05] <SpeedEvil> They are designed for high-speed machine control and motor driving tasks.
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[01:53:20] <SpeedEvil> Well under 1us jitter should be quite possible.
[01:53:37] <SpeedEvil> They are entirely decoupled from the main processor.
[01:54:16] <Jymmm> I have nfc you'ld have to shwo me
[01:55:00] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: but dont go to any effort to do so
[01:55:22] <SpeedEvil> A BBB is quite slow. It would normally have performance similar to a slow PC under linuxcnc.
[01:55:37] <SpeedEvil> With the PRUs, it could be better than the fastest PCs.
[01:55:45] <Jymmm> links?
[01:56:01] <Jymmm> telling me "PRU" doesn't say anything to me.
[01:56:14] <Jymmm> I'd need to compare models
[01:56:20] <CaptHindsight> but the BBB has a weak GPU, no HD GUI for you!
[01:56:26] <SpeedEvil> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/PRU_Projects
[01:57:29] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: So PRU isn't a chip things, it's a SW thing?
[01:58:30] <CaptHindsight> if they had only added a decent GPU to that SOC it would have been just about perfect, but then TI would probably charge $50 for it
[01:58:44] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: which BBB has this PRU?
[01:58:58] <SpeedEvil> All of them
[01:59:07] <SpeedEvil> The BBB is only one processor
[01:59:21] <Jymmm> SpeedEvil: Then why did you say it like it was a special model of bbb?
[01:59:25] <SpeedEvil> The PRU are two processors on the same die as the main processor that runs linux.
[01:59:29] <SpeedEvil> I diddn't.
[01:59:45] <CaptHindsight> http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black
[01:59:48] <SpeedEvil> Though I see it can be read like that
[01:59:50] <Jymmm> BBB + LCNC - with PRU support would be awesome
[02:00:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ti.com/product/am3358 the SOC
[02:00:07] <SpeedEvil> yes - in that you can install linuxcnc on the platform without supporting the PRUs
[02:00:10] <Jymmm> lcnc needs to have the PRU support you are saying?
[02:00:18] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: that's what machinekit does
[02:00:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ?
[02:00:34] <CaptHindsight> but then you need a second PC as the HUI
[02:00:55] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: machinekit? I've never touched bbb btw
[02:01:04] <CaptHindsight> http://blog.machinekit.io/p/machinekit_16.html
[02:01:29] <CaptHindsight> it's good for headless machines
[02:01:52] <CaptHindsight> machinekit also runs on x86
[02:02:05] <SpeedEvil> http://blog.machinekit.io/p/machinekit_16.html looks relevant
[02:02:07] <Jymmm> so you can just use a 2nd machine for the lcnc gui
[02:02:17] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure what exactly it's doing with the PRUs
[02:02:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ^^^^^
[02:02:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK_OYoNOBDQ
[02:03:06] <CaptHindsight> but the other thing they tend to not mention is needing an expansion IO board called a cape/shield/sarape/cloak
[02:03:16] <CaptHindsight> so the final cost is high
[02:03:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, I used to do that with lcnc with the built in features
[02:03:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: joystick on the "headless" box, and gui on a remote box
[02:04:55] <CaptHindsight> we are finishing up the cubie2 + hm2 FPGA so it will have lower total cost and support a HD gui
[02:05:30] <CaptHindsight> http://cubieboard.org/2013/06/19/cubieboard2-is-here/
[02:06:08] <CaptHindsight> should also work with
https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/ and similar
[02:06:42] <CaptHindsight> you get all the fun stuff of the BBB + cape/shield with a powerful GPU
[02:07:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.bananapi.org/ could also work with this
[02:08:19] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: When you say "HD GUI" what do you mean?
[02:08:33] <tjb1> Jymmm: What is BBB?
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[02:09:01] <Jymmm> tjb1: you ask and leave, forget you! lol
[02:09:10] <tjb1> I was in wrong window when I did ctrl-w :P
[02:09:14] <CaptHindsight> high resolution high frame rate display for the user inteface like AXIS
[02:09:27] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: via HDMI?
[02:09:34] <CaptHindsight> BBB =
http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone+Black
[02:09:47] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes or VGA
[02:10:29] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ppl are anal when it coems to HD is why I ask. They excpect movie/games at 40000000frame rate
[02:11:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'm content with DVD quality
[02:11:34] <CaptHindsight> you can play HD games on the cubie2, Banana Pietc
[02:11:50] <Jymmm> I'm not a gamer
[02:12:17] <Jymmm> I need a framerate to define "HD"
[02:12:28] <Jymmm> or some other spec
[02:12:31] <CaptHindsight> the point is the BBB can't runa machine and display a decent GUI at the same time
[02:12:46] <Jymmm> can it play netflix?
[02:13:02] <Jymmm> streaming without jitter?
[02:13:05] <CaptHindsight> so you're limited to headless of low res and low frame rates
[02:13:12] <CaptHindsight> yes
[02:13:16] <Jymmm> ah
[02:13:35] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I'm not trying to be difficult, just "HD" alone is subjective =)
[02:14:02] <CaptHindsight> I'm used to having to explain things to children, no problem :)
[02:14:09] <Jymmm> so bascially bb is a unitasker
[02:14:14] <Jymmm> bbb
[02:14:29] <CaptHindsight> when it comes to graphics/video
[02:14:37] <Jymmm> good video or good motion, but not both =
[02:15:09] <Jymmm> does the video freeze up?
[02:15:25] <Jymmm> can you lower resolution to compenste?
[02:16:22] <CaptHindsight> 1-2 fps depending on res
[02:16:38] <Jymmm> 2fps on the highest or lowest res?
[02:16:47] <Jymmm> ...with motion
[02:16:52] <CaptHindsight> you'll have to try it and see
[02:17:09] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Oh, I thogught you were saying that is the result you got
[02:19:01] <CaptHindsight> no I really never got started on the BBB since the cubie2 and similar came out
[02:19:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I have enough on my plate as it is right now TYVM. Just had the rep bring me my replacement laser tube today... $1200 later.
[02:20:17] <CaptHindsight> just passing along the observations
[02:20:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: no worries =)
[02:20:44] <CaptHindsight> you're probably better at finding deals on PC's
[02:21:11] <CaptHindsight> the BBB + shield is ~$150
[02:21:31] <CaptHindsight> the IO boards cost more than the BBB last i checked
[02:21:33] <XXCoder1> capt did you see latest design?
https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10427235_456337351177840_1505210135140562994_n.png
[02:21:40] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Heh, not so much anymore. I've been avoiding the IT World as much as possible =)
[02:21:48] <CaptHindsight> maybe someone in China has a $25 knockoff by now
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[02:22:22] <CaptHindsight> $45 for BBB + $25 for a IO board would make more sense
[02:22:30] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: There was a time when I would have a stack of 1U servers I got for like $4 for ALL of them =)
[02:23:26] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ...and NOT desktop mobo's either, full server mobo's with dual cpus, multi-core and obscene amounts of ram =)
[02:23:39] <Jymmm> remote mgnt built in, etc
[02:23:47] <Tom_itx> running what os?
[02:24:03] <Jymmm> Mostly CentOS
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[02:24:14] <Tom_itx> doesn't do me alot of good
[02:24:15] <Jymmm> they came from the DC
[02:24:44] <Jymmm> Customer's wouldn't pay their bill, we got first dibbs on ethem =)
[02:25:09] <Jymmm> Cisco routers were expensive though, $10 =)
[02:27:21] <Jymmm> We had a nice lil network lab though =)
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[02:29:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: The most glorified thing I have now is a 24p gig switch and a ethernet/RS-232 over 3G adapter =)
[02:30:27] <Jymmm> the latter doubles as a serial over ethernet adapter too.
[02:33:47] <XXCoder1> lol
[02:36:00] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: wuuuuuuuuuut?
[02:36:17] <XXCoder1> wut on what?
[02:36:34] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: wut joos laffn bout willis?
[02:37:06] <XXCoder1> the difference of easy to access cheap stuff
[02:37:15] <XXCoder1> I can get pretty lot wood for free
[02:37:27] <XXCoder1> while you got nuts cheap prices on expensive stuff
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[02:39:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Eh, I guess it's subjective. =)
[02:39:32] <XXCoder1> indeed
[02:40:16] <XXCoder1> other guy said he gets free 8020 from friends
[02:40:20] <XXCoder1> I'd love that lol
[02:46:29] <fenugrec> arrrgh... running latencytest from the live CD was quite optimistic
[02:47:28] <fenugrec> now running the OS from the HDD, I'm getting ridiculous jitter
[02:50:37] <fenugrec> 3.8ms ? seriously ?
[02:52:27] <skunkworks_> fenugrec: did you install the closed source video drivers?
[02:53:34] <fenugrec> skunkworks_: no, I'll go check though. I assumed the linuxCNC live CD shipped with nouveau / vesa / other open drivers as default
[02:54:16] <fenugrec> skunkworks_: running from the liveCD worked great (12-13us jitter), either some configs changed or for some reason my HDD is screwing everything up
[02:55:04] <pcw_home> check the dmesg or SMART for HD errors
[02:55:32] <XXCoder1> I really need to test jitter on my pc
[02:56:32] <skunkworks_> afreed
[02:56:34] <skunkworks_> agreed
[02:57:27] <fenugrec> pcw_home: dmesg shows nothing HD-related, but whatdoyaknow : "RTAPI: ERROR: unexpected delay on task 1. [...] run latency test and resolve before continuing"
[02:57:49] <fenugrec> I didn't check if I had that error running from the liveCD
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[03:00:48] <pcw_home> What MB? and do you have all the usual latency causes disabled (power management etc)
[03:02:10] <fenugrec> pcw_home: APM disabled, ACPI is enabled (not sure if needed; it worked as-is from the liveCD), no CPU scaling / throttling; there was a portaudio thread that was niced at -10 (other processes all at 0) so I re-niced to 0, mobo is Asus A8V-X with socket 939 Athlon64
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[03:03:20] <fenugrec> one IDE HDD, USB Legacy is disabled; I have 1.5GB RAM and no swap so I know it's not paging out memory all the time.
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[03:05:44] <fenugrec> I have the bad feeling it's very HDD-related
[03:07:26] <fenugrec> Any tips on analyzing HDD IO delays ? Can I / should I disable DMA altogether ?
[03:09:31] <fenugrec> (skunkworks_: hehe I forgot this has an ATI card; it's currently using "radeon" for a module. I think that's the open-source one, not the closed binary)
[03:10:57] <skunkworks_> look at the smart data...
[03:11:00] <pcw_home> PIO mode maybe worth a try but the only really bad HDD related latency I have seen is with a failing HDD
[03:12:59] <pcw_home> I may even have that MB (seems familiar)
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[03:14:03] <fenugrec> skunkworks_: SMART quick info says "all good" but I'm running a surface test as we speak.
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[03:28:50] <fenugrec> hmm there have been some "UDMA CRC errors"... I'll try swapping cables tomorrow. I'm off for now, later dudes
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[03:31:46] <XXCoder1> heys
[03:32:05] <XXCoder1> wonder if theres any good article on how to make a good battery out of 2 bad lathium ion batteries?
[03:32:16] <XXCoder1> I know it tend to be one or two cells that go bad not all of em
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[03:45:01] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: they usually tack weld the cylindrical cells to aluminum strips, there also a thermal sensor that opens the battery contacts if they get too hot
[03:46:14] <CaptHindsight> and laptop batteries have a serial smart switch so that they only charge and work when given the magic password
[03:46:49] <XXCoder1> not fixing laptop battery
[03:47:00] <XXCoder1> but jeez
[03:47:48] <XXCoder1> oh look
http://www.instructables.com/id/Cordless-drill---Improving-the-battery/ lol
[03:47:53] <XXCoder1> thanks though
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[03:50:54] <XXCoder1> this is closer
http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=587'
[03:51:04] <XXCoder1> *
http://www.astromart.com/articles/article.asp?article_id=587
[03:52:39] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Hey, that battery is $34 from Sears+ tax
[03:52:59] <XXCoder1> yeah I have TWO bad batteries
[03:53:06] <XXCoder1> typicallyu its one or two cells that go bad
[03:53:11] <XXCoder1> so yah
[03:53:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Yeah, both of mine are dieing
[03:53:49] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: IF I replace them, Ill toss in Ni-MH I think
[03:53:58] <XXCoder1> I dont know how to solder
[03:54:04] <XXCoder1> so probably out. dunno
[03:54:09] <Jymmm> if I can find low internal resistance ones tha tis
[03:54:18] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: really?
[03:54:30] <XXCoder1> yeah. well can sorta solder. not very good
[03:54:59] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Just have a decent iron, and use liquid flux. A bottle will last firever
[03:55:15] <XXCoder1> flux is not familiar with me, whats it do
[03:55:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: People try to get away without the flux
[03:55:24] <XXCoder1> from what I gather it keeps metal pure
[03:55:35] <XXCoder1> and better contact?
[03:55:39] <Jymmm> When the heat hits it, it "cleans" the points of contact
[03:55:50] <Jymmm> be it the pcbor wire
[03:56:11] <Jymmm> it gets residue off the surface.
[03:56:39] <Jymmm> When you are all done soldering, you wash it off with alcohol and an acid brush or stiff toothbrush
[03:57:48] <XXCoder1> interestubg
[03:57:52] <Jymmm> If yu need to solder two fine wire together, dip them in flux, then tin them with solder individually. Then you can basically put the wire together, hit with soldering iron and they will be soldered.
[03:58:18] <XXCoder1> heh flux name do look funy to me :P but thanks
[03:58:26] <Jymmm> there is enough sodler resdue from tinning them to solder them together, and solder will always stick better to itself.
[03:58:51] <XXCoder1> yah tin I did before, makes it much easier even with no flux
[03:59:11] <Jymmm> Using flux makes the worse soldering job easier
[03:59:31] <Jymmm> NEVER acid flux though.
[03:59:44] <XXCoder1> nor any reflux lol
[04:00:00] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: This will last you forever
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70159768
[04:00:23] <XXCoder1> thanks
[04:00:23] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: you in the USA?
[04:00:26] <XXCoder1> yep
[04:00:32] <Jymmm> near a FRYS?
[04:00:53] <XXCoder1> not really, hour and half, be cheaper to order online
[04:01:24] <XXCoder1> my car blew top fasket or cracked head block so REALLY bad idea to drive there now.
[04:02:37] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: These go on sale periodically for $16
http://www.frys.com/product/4825190?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
[04:02:59] <XXCoder1> thanks
[04:03:19] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: cheap enough to buy a new one than to buy a repacement tip for $10-$15
[04:03:40] <XXCoder1> oh if solder dont heat up is it repairable?
[04:04:00] <Jymmm> all soldering iron have replaceable tips
[04:04:27] <XXCoder1> so if solder dont heat up its bad tip?
[04:04:42] <Jymmm> not necessarily
[04:04:58] <Jymmm> it's a $20 soldering iron, can't expect much =)
[04:05:04] <XXCoder1> lol ok
[04:05:21] <XXCoder1> well night
[04:05:24] <Jymmm> and these work MUCH better than a sponge
http://www.dollartree.com/household/cleaning/cleaning-tools/Scrub-Buddies-Stainless-Steel-Wire-Scourers-3-ct-Packs/500c501c508p336380/index.pro?method=search
[04:06:09] <Jymmm> you can buy the ones that say "solder tip cleaner" and pay $15, or three of those for $1
[04:07:02] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: ^^^^^^^^^
[04:12:57] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: how much compression were you running?
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[04:49:38] <Valen> ey PCW / pcw_home you about?
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[10:37:01] <Deejay> re
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[12:09:12] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks
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[12:10:31] <SpeedEvil> Morning
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[12:28:53] <jthornton> morning
[12:29:05] <XXCoder1> morning
[12:30:38] <Jymmm> I got my replacement laser tube yesterday =)
[12:30:55] <XXCoder1> did yu go for chinese one or?
[12:31:32] <Jymmm> I replaced the the laser cartridge in my existing laser.
[12:32:02] <Jymmm> cartrudge = tube+RF Exciter
[12:32:40] <Jymmm> I even cut a square in 1/4" wood =)
[12:35:09] <Jymmm> But I'll be damn if I could cut a hole in 1/8" partical board. Too much glue and fibers in it.
[12:35:29] <Jymmm> I was burning, not cutting it.
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[12:43:16] <skunkworks> Jymmm, how many watts?
[12:43:28] <Jymmm> skunkworks: 30W CO2
[12:43:47] <skunkworks> what is the focal length of the lense?
[12:43:59] <Jymmm> Well, the calibration sheet shows it's firing at 32W avg
[12:44:05] <Jymmm> 2"
[12:44:33] <skunkworks> I supposed you have tired moving the focal point around?
[12:44:42] <skunkworks> do you have a longer focal length lense?
[12:45:16] <Jymmm> skunkworks: It's the glue and fibers in the partical board that are the issue.
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[12:45:40] <Jymmm> I tossed on a piece of 1/4" solid wood and cut a hole no problem.
[12:45:46] <skunkworks> ah
[12:46:18] <_methods> all those gaps and glue in particle board will be hell
[12:46:25] <_methods> play hell on the beam
[12:46:35] <Jymmm> corrigated cardboard can be the same way, but since that's hallow, you can just focus 50% into the material and it'll cut just fine.
[12:46:50] <Jymmm> hollow*
[12:46:53] <_methods> yeah you might try focusing lower like cardboard
[12:46:58] <_methods> but still that damn resin
[12:47:32] <Jymmm> It was just a piece of scrap I was using for testing, not that I cut that material normally.
[12:48:05] <Jymmm> I just wasn't going to sign the invoice till I saw the new tube do something =)
[12:48:30] <Jymmm> The local rep brought it out.
[12:50:22] <_methods> i don't blame ya
[12:50:24] <skunkworks> Jymmm, did you have many hours on the previous laser?
[12:50:31] <_methods> how much was that tube $800?
[12:50:31] <skunkworks> *tube
[12:51:13] <Jymmm> skunkworks: 105,120 Hours (It was 12yo per the mfg date. It lived a good life)
[12:51:50] <skunkworks> wow
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[12:52:02] <Jymmm> _methods: $1200 with tax and shipping both way (exchange).
[12:52:29] <kengu> glue mostly
[12:52:39] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Well, I don't know about the hurs on it, it was 12yo though
[12:54:59] <Jymmm> I do have an 120VAC hour meter here, so since I have a new tube, I can let the meter run when the machine is powered on, won't give the tube runtime, but a good estimate at least.
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[12:56:41] <Jymmm> I think I scared the rep when I said i was pissed at the partical board and started ripping it into piece and tossing in the trashcan. lol
[12:57:05] <miss0r> I started a milling program yesterday at around 21:00. it is now 15:00 and I am almost half way done. horrible
[12:57:53] <Jymmm> We had worked on that for a long time, even was at 100% Pwr, 0.2% Speed, 1000 PPI and it still wouldn't cut in one pass.
[12:58:58] <Jymmm> miss0r: only 18 hours more to go!
[13:00:39] <miss0r> yeah. I hope it turns out okay... I am doing a brass plate as a diploma for a friend of mine who will get her real education diploma this friday. I am using an engraving needle, and since I cannot manage to get it completely leveled, I have to go to a depth of 0.1mm with a 0.01mm cut each time.
[13:01:25] <miss0r> It is taking a hellowa time
[13:02:11] <Jymmm> 8" x 10" ?
[13:02:31] <miss0r> no :) 8 x 120 mm
[13:02:38] <miss0r> lol... 80 x 120mm
[13:02:57] <Jymmm> WTH?!
[13:03:11] <miss0r> The problem is the plate is only 1mm thick, so even with double sided tape, I can't get it properly leveled
[13:03:15] <miss0r> WTF what ?
[13:03:44] <Jymmm> 36 hours for 12 sq inches?!
[13:04:02] <Jymmm> I'm assuming you meant 80x120 not 8x120
[13:04:30] <miss0r> indeed. The needles are way too thin for this job, and my spindles only able to reach 8k rpm. so I have to take it quite slow
[13:05:42] <Jymmm> You know you could electro-etch it in 15 minutes =)
[13:06:00] <archivist> will the job pay for the power used to cut it
[13:06:07] <miss0r> could've would've should've :-P This is way more fun to do some stuff on my new mill
[13:06:35] <Jymmm> miss0r:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Electro-Etch-a-Solid-Metal-Plaque/
[13:06:38] <miss0r> archivist: as I am currently doing it for 0 and power =! 0, no :)
[13:07:43] <archivist> I spent best part of two hours scanning manuals for somebody £15 donation, so I am happy today
[13:08:35] <Jymmm> Ya heard it folks, archivist works for peanuts!
[13:09:13] <miss0r> great. 'peanuts' is exactly what I am offering for a cleaning'lady'
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[13:09:22] <Jymmm> archivist: did you build a auto page turner yet?
[13:09:36] <archivist> no
[13:10:07] <archivist> page turners cannot deal with foldout diagrams
[13:10:17] <Jymmm> ah
[13:11:03] <miss0r> Challange accepted.
[13:11:30] <miss0r> a camera controlled robot, with a build-in alghorithm to detect paper folds.
[13:11:43] <archivist> I wish for better image stitching too
[13:14:13] <miss0r> I wish for a pizza right about now
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[13:22:55] <Jymmm> miss0r: M-Th carryout special $8
https://order.dominos.com/en/
[13:24:07] <miss0r> yeah... i'm not exactly within the reach of dominos ;)
[13:24:09] <Jymmm> They have really improved, used to be crap.
[13:24:21] <miss0r> the nearest dominos are something like 40 miles away
[13:24:51] <miss0r> i'll bey you the pizza would be cold before it got here, especialy considering the domino delevery in Denmark is done on scooter :)
[13:24:56] <Jymmm> miss0r: send yout lcnc controled quadcopter to pick it up
[13:25:29] <miss0r> that would be sweet. no question about it.
[13:25:39] <Jymmm> Amazon is doing it
[13:25:55] <miss0r> But, however, if I am too lazy to go get a pizza I think I shouldn't eat one ;)
[13:26:20] <Jymmm> miss0r: 30 minute delivery
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171879-amazon-unveils-30-minute-prime-air-quadcopter-delivery-service-but-its-completely-impractical
[13:27:03] <_methods> http://www.iflscience.com/technology/new-type-computer-capable-calculating-640tbs-data-one-billionth-second-could
[13:27:05] <miss0r> Wasn't that a hoax?
[13:27:18] <miss0r> the amazon stuff
[13:28:05] <Jymmm> miss0r:
http://www.amazon.com/b?node=8037720011
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[13:28:57] <miss0r> well, there you have it :)
[13:29:12] <miss0r> meh. I have to find something to eat and get gone. see you
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[13:29:23] <cpresser> a amazon packet.. and a free quadcopter. nice!
[13:29:52] <Jymmm> heh
[13:32:19] <cpresser> honestly, how are they going to prevent me from stealing copters?
[13:34:02] <Jymmm> cpresser: Bill your CC?
[13:34:09] <Jymmm> cpresser: They know where you live =)
[13:34:38] <cpresser> but they cant prove that I stole that copter
[13:34:51] <Jymmm> if they have camera on it they could
[13:35:55] <Jymmm> And most are using quads for aireal photography anyway
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[14:07:45] <jthornton> Jymmm, you have a photo of your new laser?
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[15:52:00] <Gigs-> so is there a downside to lathe holders that take replacable inserts vs the brazed on carbide kind?
[15:52:41] <archivist> the cost, the upsides are many
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[15:53:50] <archivist> tool geometry is right every time, no need to grind etc
[15:56:53] <Gigs-> I feel dumb but I just realized yesterday that threads are 60 degrees and carbide triangles are equilateral
[15:57:15] <Gigs-> after carefully grinding thread tools for this long I feel a little silly
[15:57:36] <archivist> get thread shaped inserts, you get the right radius on the tip then
[15:57:37] <syyl_ws> i threw most of my indexable insert tools away
[15:57:50] <syyl_ws> back to grinding highspeed and solid carbide tooling
[15:58:11] <Gigs-> archivist thanks for the tip (pun)
[15:58:16] <archivist> I grind hss for my tiny stuff
[15:58:25] <Gigs-> syyl_ws: what reason?
[15:58:36] <syyl_ws> got a pretty small lathe, a 9x20
[15:58:50] <Gigs-> ah yeah I could see that, you need some torque and stiffness
[15:58:55] <archivist> inserts can need more power
[15:59:02] <syyl_ws> and i can take way heavier cuts with highspeeds/brazed/solid carbide
[15:59:17] <Gigs-> I know even on the little south bend even brazed carbide was a lot less fun compared to HSS
[15:59:31] <Gigs-> we are tossing the south bend against my advice :(
[15:59:45] <archivist> often home user cannot get a good edge on brazed
[15:59:51] <syyl_ws> i kinda like the brazed
[16:00:00] <syyl_ws> since i have a finde diamond wheel ;)
[16:00:06] <syyl_ws> *fine
[16:00:06] <archivist> never toss a southbend
[16:00:10] <Gigs-> my dad has one wheel on the grinder set up just for carbide but it gets loaded from grinding the HSS section of brazed ones easily
[16:00:19] <Gigs-> my dad couldn't settle the dispute with his buddy archivist
[16:00:32] <Gigs-> so the enco, the south bend, and the XLO knee are going out the door :(
[16:00:36] <archivist> jump in with your own offer :)
[16:00:39] <syyl_ws> the green silicon carbide wheels for carbide are a horrible pain ;)
[16:00:42] <Gigs-> he would never forgive me
[16:00:47] <archivist> aw
[16:01:04] <Gigs-> on the plus side he ordered a taiwan lathe to replace it on my recommendation
[16:01:05] <syyl_ws> break down in seconds, make a mess, hold no corner, ...
[16:01:17] <Gigs-> a PM 1340GT
[16:01:52] <Gigs-> precision mathews ... it looks like the same taiwan factory they all come out of pretty much
[16:02:22] <Gigs-> I saw some pretty good reviews for them in terms of QC so we'll see how it goes
[16:03:10] <Gigs-> still haven't decided on what to do for a new knee mill... but for whatever reason it seems that knee mills are less critical/expensive
[16:04:00] <syyl_ws> is knee mill another term for bridgeportknockoff?
[16:04:03] <Gigs-> yeah
[16:04:27] <Gigs-> vertical mill with a table that goes up and down, generally the bigger guys
[16:04:40] <Gigs-> freestanding
[16:04:59] <syyl_ws> uncommon here in europe ;)
[16:05:07] <Gigs-> what do you all have?
[16:05:09] <syyl_ws> we have the deckel style mills
[16:05:12] <Gigs-> oh
[16:05:29] <Connor> Gigs-: Who is your dad? He come onto IRC too ?
[16:05:39] <syyl_ws> table gives x/z movement, the ram gives y
[16:05:59] <Gigs-> heh no connor he's like 80
[16:06:06] <Connor> Ah
[16:06:11] <Gigs-> he had his journeyman card back in the 60s
[16:06:27] <Gigs-> now he just does light gunsmithing stuff
[16:06:35] <Gigs-> and helps me out with my business
[16:07:28] <Gigs-> syyl_ws: really??
[16:07:42] <Gigs-> the head moves forward and back?
[16:08:09] <Gigs-> oh I see it there, the crank on the back of the head
[16:08:15] <Gigs-> never seen one of those in operation
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[16:09:11] <Gigs-> seems like it would be hard to "rough diagonal" that I sometimes do, jogging the x and y at the same time
[16:09:30] <syyl_ws_> oh easy
[16:09:36] <syyl_ws_> kick in x and y feed the same time
[16:09:41] <syyl_ws_> presto, 45° :D
[16:09:52] <Gigs-> oh see the XLO I use has REALLY REALLY slow feeds
[16:09:58] <Gigs-> like, set it and forget it
[16:10:03] <Gigs-> come back in a few hours
[16:10:10] <syyl_ws_> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f14/16749d1256823788-deckel-fp3-missing-tnc-control-deckle-dk.jpg
[16:10:16] <Gigs-> so we almost never use the feeds
[16:10:19] <syyl_ws_> thats a mid size deckel
[16:10:23] <Gigs-> except Z feed for boring
[16:10:35] <syyl_ws_> no rapid feed?
[16:10:39] <Gigs-> nope
[16:10:43] <syyl_ws_> uh
[16:10:49] <Gigs-> I think the fastest feed is 0.0006 per rev or something
[16:11:00] <syyl_ws_> hate it when a conventional mill has no rapid ;)
[16:11:10] <syyl_ws_> the deckels run about 1...2000mm/min in rapid
[16:11:22] <syyl_ws_> and up to 400mm/min in normal feed
[16:11:27] <archivist> there was a deckel listed yesterday, claimed to have a hobbing spindle fleabay 141321364586
[16:11:37] <Gigs-> yeah the xlo only has three speeds for the feed, pretty basic
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[16:12:12] <Gigs-> because the feed is per rev I guess if you cranked the RPM way up it would be faster
[16:12:33] <Gigs-> but XLOs cry at high speed, they always sound like they are going to fall apart
[16:12:38] <Gigs-> apparently that's normal
[16:12:55] <Gigs-> something about the CVT transmission design
[16:13:10] <syyl_ws_> i think he means the horzontal arbor attachement, archivist
[16:13:16] <archivist> I know
[16:13:22] <syyl_ws_> there is no thing like a hobbing bla for those ;)
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[16:13:34] <syyl_ws_> but it has the broaching head
[16:13:37] <syyl_ws_> nice thing to have :D
[16:13:40] <archivist> I thought hobbing was not possible on them :)
[16:13:51] <Gigs-> a rotary broach really?
[16:14:04] <Gigs-> that would be amazing to have
[16:14:05] <archivist> some idiots dont realise gear milling is not hobbing
[16:14:09] <syyl_ws_> not rotary
[16:14:16] <syyl_ws_> just linear motion
[16:14:18] <syyl_ws_> like a shaper
[16:14:22] <Gigs-> oh
[16:14:29] <syyl_ws_> for keyways and internal corners
[16:14:44] <syyl_ws_> or to scare novices in the shop ;)
[16:14:48] <Gigs-> I've always dreamed of having one of those eccentric rotary broach setups, they are so neat... drilling square holes even blind
[16:15:08] <syyl_ws_> i think edm is the way to go today...
[16:15:24] <syyl_ws_> for one offs
[16:15:45] <archivist> nah, fly press and grunt a square hole
[16:16:11] <syyl_ws_> :D
[16:16:15] <archivist> we used to make clock keys on a flypress, boring
[16:17:58] <syyl_ws_> :D
[16:18:54] <syyl_ws_> bbq time
[16:18:57] <syyl_ws_> ahoi!
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[16:19:46] <Gigs-> this is an arbor setup like you all were talking about right
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/sites/7/images/member_albums/71654/381211.jpg
[16:19:59] <Gigs-> how do they index in that setup?
[16:20:09] <Gigs-> oh nevermind I see the edge of the rotary table under there
[16:20:56] <archivist> yup, that is gear milling
[16:22:10] <CaptHindsight> that's the easy way, using a cutting tool with the exact profile of the tooth
[16:22:11] <Gigs-> so true hobbing has synchronized drive for the workpiece as well?
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[16:22:40] <archivist> yes the spindle is geared to the rotary
[16:23:00] <Gigs-> cool... just making sure I understood the distinction
[16:23:22] * SpeedEvil supposes you could broach a gear in one pass.
[16:23:27] <archivist> so the hob looks like
http://gears.archivist.info/P9190303.JPG
[16:23:34] <SpeedEvil> But the tool would be ridiculous
[16:23:39] <SpeedEvil> and so would the forces
[16:23:44] <archivist> left, blank is right
[16:24:48] <archivist> that is producing a qty of clock form gears that can be parted off
[16:25:02] <Gigs-> SpeedEvil: when the machine starts actually bouncing off the floor you know you went too far :P
[16:25:32] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:25:56] <archivist> people do broach stuff but the forces are silly and tooling costs match
[16:25:59] <Gigs-> on the plus side with getting rid of all our current machines, we can replace them with single phase
[16:26:26] <skunkworks> archivist: you are using it for production? cool!
[16:26:45] <Gigs-> the shop is on a demand meter and just starting the phase converter once makes my electric bill $20 higher for the month
[16:26:56] <archivist> skunkworks, that was at the last job, didnt get that machine....grrrrr
[16:27:06] <skunkworks> oh - darn
[16:27:18] <Gigs-> those must have been some expensive clocks archivist
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[16:27:19] <skunkworks> Gigs-, need a soft start...
[16:27:41] <Gigs-> skunkworks demand meter is a 15 minute time average anyway but the idler motor is like 6 or 8 HP
[16:27:46] <archivist> skunkworks, but soon will be doing it with linuxcnc
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[16:27:57] <skunkworks> nice
[16:28:02] <skunkworks> peak meter
[16:28:24] <Gigs-> technically the phase converter isn't actually using any power, but you know electric companies, they find a way to charge you for reactive power
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[16:29:07] <Gigs-> it does get pretty warm so I guess it does burn at least a few hundred watts in losses
[16:29:44] <archivist> a vfd is a better way to get three phase motor running
[16:30:12] <Gigs-> yeah I did suggest my dad order 3 phase stuff along with VFDs but not too much gain since all the newer machines have pretty nice built in transmissions
[16:31:32] <Gigs-> I have oriental motors for my automation stuff on VFDs.... I learned the hard way that 12/3 and 14/3 cable have 4 wires, but 16/3 cable.... has 3
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[16:31:55] <Gigs-> oh well at least I only bought 50 feet of it and not a whole spool
[16:32:35] <Gigs-> I tried running them ungrounded for a while, until I got sick of getting shocked
[16:32:51] <Gigs-> now there's a 18 gauge wire taped to the 16/3 :P
[16:34:50] <Gigs-> I toured our R&D here at the print company and I was surprised to see they were using all oriental motors too.. that company is really making nice stuff and getting a lot of market share for fractional HP and gearheads
[16:35:29] <Gigs-> probably because bodine and the traditional US makers are impossible to deal with... you have to find a local distributor, and they don't stock shit... that is, even if they are willing to order the bodine motor you need
[16:35:43] <Gigs-> our local bodine distributor won't even deal in fractional HP motors
[16:35:46] <zeeshan-laptop> mm VFD
[16:35:50] <zeeshan-laptop> i live for VFD
[16:36:13] <Gigs-> it is very nice for the automation stuff to be able to tweak the speed at will
[16:36:36] <zeeshan-laptop> its not nice!
[16:36:39] <zeeshan-laptop> its almsot necessary!
[16:36:47] <Gigs-> I'm seeing a lot more tiny 3ph on VFD where in the past you might see brushless or steppers
[16:38:18] <Gigs-> yeah some of our conveyors here at work are on VFD and some you have to change out spur gears or pulleys... problems that are a major hassle can evaporate instantly on the VFD belts with a little tweak
[16:38:55] <Gigs-> we often wind up using the VFD belts to compensate for issues caused by the fixed speed belts
[16:39:45] <zeeshan-laptop> what are vfd belts?
[16:39:54] <Gigs-> sorry, vfd drive conveyor belts
[16:40:21] <zeeshan-laptop> ah
[16:40:47] <Gigs-> some of our older belts have fixed induction motors are often require a new spur gear to change their speed
[16:41:03] <Gigs-> or at best a sprocket change
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[16:54:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:55:48] <IchGuckLive> today a very nice day in germany
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[17:10:17] <tjtr33> tjb1, did you find a cheaper plc?
[17:10:39] <tjtr33> maybe try running ClassicLadder standlaone?
http://en.it-usenet.org/thread/18400/14843/#post14914
[17:11:13] <tjtr33> i just ran it standalone, but have no devices connected to test. a cheap pc and a parport could do as much as AD units
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[17:26:37] <IchGuckLive> there are lo many cheep and still good s5 on ebay or simalar types on 32IO
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[17:43:24] <tjtr33> thx Ich
[17:43:26] <tjtr33> bye fornow
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[18:07:35] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: s5 is from siemens_> no go ;-)
[18:08:02] <IchGuckLive> stand alone
[18:08:06] <Loetmichel> "do you want something decent or can it be something from siemens?"
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[18:08:44] <IchGuckLive> i worked 23 years at siemens
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[18:15:47] <IchGuckLive> thanks cradek for updating linuxcnc.org download !
[18:16:12] <IchGuckLive> im off for today BYE
[18:16:16] <kfoltman> hi IchGuckLive
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[18:18:33] <Jymmm> jthornton: This is my machine, the cartridge I dont have a pic of yet
http://www.assuredlaser.com/english/laser_systems/product_line/m300.html
[18:20:02] <Jymmm> jthornton: looks like the boxes sitting on the floor here
http://www.assuredlaser.com/english/laser_systems/product_line/quickchange.html
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[19:46:14] <JT-Shop> got a photo of your machine?
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[20:10:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Me? The first link...
http://www.assuredlaser.com/english/laser_systems/product_line/m300.html
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[20:11:10] <Tom_itx> is that your very one?
[20:11:40] <Jymmm> as opposed to?
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[20:12:05] <Tom_itx> we need to see it in place so we can see the cannons etc in the background you're hiding :)
[20:12:32] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: JT-Shop has the cannons, not me
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[20:12:45] <Tom_itx> so what DO you have then?
[20:13:04] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: sharks with frickin lasers =)
[20:14:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and a mini phalanx =)
[20:16:13] <Tom_itx> pics or it never happened is what i say
[20:16:18] <Loetmichel> *whiiiiiiRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR PRRR PRRR wiiiuuuuuu*
[20:16:19] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:17:02] <Jymmm> laser carteidge
http://www.tux-lab.com/assets/gallery_image/49/small/uls_m300_laser_cartridge.jpg?1307961302
[20:17:30] <Jymmm> the whole machine
http://www.cuttingmachinerylocator.com/photos/m300.gif
[20:18:17] <Tom_itx> did you get a new 40w laser?
[20:18:35] <Jymmm> No, just replaced my existing 30W
[20:18:47] <Tom_itx> oh i thought it was 40w
[20:19:07] <Jymmm> the machines is fine, I just needed a new tube (cartridge).
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[20:19:28] <Tom_itx> i know
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[21:34:16] * Jymmm pokes cradek with a __________ !
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[21:50:16] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:52:39] <Jymmm> DN9
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[23:09:00] <LeelooMinai> Anyone familiar with linuxcnc HAL Oscilloscope details?
[23:10:05] <LeelooMinai> In particular, the first thing I wonder about is how does it exactly get the voltage it displays?
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[23:22:37] <PCW> its not going to be able to read voltage unless you have a A-D of some kind
[23:23:17] <LeelooMinai> Right, it just looked weird it was showing something at 1V
[23:26:19] <LeelooMinai> Hmm, cannot get my stepper to move.
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[23:28:58] <LeelooMinai> I have DB25-1205 BOB and I looked at the circuit board to draw schematic of the outputs. I believe I have it wired correctly to the DQ542MA driver. I also checked parallel port. All seems fine. The driver holds the steper when on, but when I do maual control in linuxcnc and try to move a bit, the stepper is not moving.
[23:29:39] * LeelooMinai scratches the head
[23:30:11] <LeelooMinai> Maybe I will bring the scope close and look if the driver gets sane pulses on the PUL inputs.
[23:31:47] <zeeshan|2> LeelooMinai: did you fix the ms issue
[23:31:49] <zeeshan|2> yesterday
[23:31:53] <zeeshan|2> where you couldnt change the timing in stepconf?
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[23:32:50] <LeelooMinai> I edit the conf file by hand
[23:32:59] <zeeshan|2> okay
[23:33:03] <LeelooMinai> Gave up on the "qizard"
[23:33:06] <zeeshan|2> hehe
[23:33:09] <LeelooMinai> wizard
[23:33:16] <zeeshan|2> when you say you checked your parallel port
[23:33:24] <zeeshan|2> did you energize an output in HAL
[23:33:30] <zeeshan|2> and see if the voltage changed?
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[23:33:59] <zeeshan|2> while having your voltmeter connected between ground and that pin?
[23:34:00] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I played with the parallel port hal utility and signaling seems fine - goes through the BOB
[23:34:08] <zeeshan|2> did you check each pin?
[23:34:10] <zeeshan|2> or just a couple
[23:34:17] <LeelooMinai> I will now see with the scope if the pulses are sent
[23:34:19] <zeeshan|2> they were going from 3.3 or 5V to 0
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[23:34:24] <zeeshan|2> or 0 to 3.3V or 5V?
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[23:35:47] <LeelooMinai> I RE the BOB a bit and the output ports are optos with the outpub BJT having the emiter on the ground and the collector going to VDD through a 1kΩ resistor - this is nowhere documented of course.
[23:36:49] <LeelooMinai> Also, when you send ON to the parallel port pin, the opto actually goes off... It was confusing as hell before I just sat and drew this out.
[23:37:12] <LeelooMinai> And there's zero schematic on net for this BOB
[23:37:39] <zeeshan|2> that doesnt matter
[23:37:46] <zeeshan|2> at least for outputs
[23:37:50] <zeeshan|2> all you gotta do is invert the signal in hal.
[23:38:32] <LeelooMinai> I know I can do that - just saying, that nowhere they draw how those outputs look with that 1kΩ there
[23:39:26] <LeelooMinai> So if you try to sink current from it for another opto, well, the resistor will limit it
[23:40:48] <zeeshan|2> i dont know electronics
[23:40:54] <zeeshan|2> i know simple test methods to check if something is working or not :P
[23:41:04] <zeeshan|2> the first thing i did when my parallel port wasn't working
[23:41:12] <zeeshan|2> was check each pin.
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[23:41:21] <zeeshan|2> after i got the parallel port working (was a driver issue)
[23:41:27] <zeeshan|2> i checked the port again
[23:41:39] <zeeshan|2> some of the pins would energize at will. no matter what i did
[23:41:45] <zeeshan|2> found out the parallel port address was wrong
[23:41:55] <zeeshan|2> after i fixed both issues, everything worked as commanded
[23:44:04] <LeelooMinai> Yes, I guess my setup is not straightforward. I know electronics, and had hard time with it due to no docs.
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[23:46:22] <LeelooMinai> Right, no pulses out
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