#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-06-01

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[02:17:29] <PetefromTn_> Evening folks..
[02:18:46] <XXCoder1> hey
[02:20:21] <PetefromTn_> Hey whatzup?
[02:22:13] <XXCoder1> not much
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[02:23:17] <PetefromTn_> Just finished drawing up a new version of this same part I have been making with some slight changes.
[02:23:52] <PetefromTn_> Unfortunately when I did the cam work I did not realize that the Origin was set to the top left corner of the part and I need it in the center of extents.
[02:24:10] <PetefromTn_> In my cam program I can move the part drawing origin quite easily.
[02:24:23] <PetefromTn_> However the Toolpaths I generated do not follow it...
[02:24:32] <PetefromTn_> At least I do not know how to make it follow it.
[02:24:44] <PetefromTn_> It may be able to I just don't know how.
[02:24:56] <PetefromTn_> I asked over on their forum to see if there is a way.
[02:25:00] <PetefromTn_> Waiting for a response.
[02:26:12] <XXCoder1> hmm hope you figure it
[02:26:33] <XXCoder1> right now i am trying to get archlinux to run on my touchpad. why not?
[02:29:36] <PetefromTn_> Can't help ya man. sorry.
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[02:30:29] <XXCoder1> it worked lol
[02:30:43] <XXCoder1> just need to connect to it
[02:32:46] <PetefromTn_> nice...
[02:33:54] <Jymmm> connect to it?
[02:34:05] <Jymmm> buy it flowers and chocolate
[02:34:56] <XXCoder1> :P
[02:35:28] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: what did you mean though?
[02:35:47] <XXCoder1> VNC connection. basically remote desktop
[02:36:04] <Jymmm> why ?
[02:36:59] <XXCoder1> there is no why, just how to!
[02:37:00] <XXCoder1> ;)
[02:37:13] <Jymmm> why would you want to vnc to a tablet?
[02:37:24] <Jymmm> the other way around, sure.
[02:37:38] <XXCoder1> its conencting from android tablet os to linux running on same tablet
[02:37:45] <XXCoder1> odd hack but linux running on tablet
[02:38:09] <Jymmm> oh pffff, you're on your own there!
[02:38:44] <Jymmm> running two OSes off an arm at the same time.... lol
[02:38:52] <XXCoder1> yeah
[02:38:58] <Jymmm> Silly newbe!
[02:41:04] <PetefromTn_> Okay apparently there is a way to move the machining origin in the software.
[02:41:09] <PetefromTn_> I did that and it worked.
[02:41:15] <XXCoder1> nice
[02:41:23] <PetefromTn_> But the start points for the individual toolpaths did not move with it.
[02:41:30] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: and using ancient technology too (circa 2012)... GET WITH THE TIMES MAN!
[02:42:10] <XXCoder1> my touchpad is better than most tablets out there
[02:42:31] <Jymmm> and?
[02:43:07] <XXCoder1> it works well enough for me lol
[02:43:55] <Jymmm> eh, fair enough.
[02:45:02] <Jymmm> does pi work on vga?
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[02:46:02] <XXCoder1> pi?
[02:46:57] <Jymmm> http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-HDMI-ADAPTER-CONNECTOR-VGA/dp/B0088K7QUQ
[02:47:15] <XXCoder1> finally figured the damned vnc password lol
[02:47:51] <Jymmm> Raspberry Pi
[02:47:57] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: RTFM? lol
[02:48:15] <XXCoder1> its not listed anywhere at all
[02:48:31] <XXCoder1> luckly I figured password pattern from other distros defaults
[02:49:54] <Jymmm> which was?
[02:50:39] <XXCoder1> archlinux
[02:50:51] <Jymmm> oh geeze
[02:52:03] <XXCoder1> wow archlinux sucks
[02:52:16] <XXCoder1> it dont come with some software to get more programs
[02:52:27] <XXCoder1> big percent of distros out there do
[02:55:21] <XXCoder1> well will play with it more later
[03:02:05] <PetefromTn_> Makin' parts!!!!
[03:02:12] <XXCoder1> :)
[03:02:18] <XXCoder1> talking bout cncs
[03:02:29] <XXCoder1> yeserday i worked with cnc thats larger than my car lol
[03:02:40] <PetefromTn_> mine is larger than my car....
[03:02:40] <XXCoder1> but basic type, like what my cnc machine will be like
[03:02:52] <XXCoder1> large table type with giant ass gantry
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[03:03:15] <PetefromTn_> I have two more of these to make tonight...
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[03:03:36] <XXCoder1> making cncs?
[03:03:40] <XXCoder1> or [arts on that cnc?
[03:03:47] <PetefromTn_> parts..
[03:03:50] <PetefromTn_> ;)
[03:04:26] <XXCoder1> lol ok
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[03:35:51] <PetefromTn_> Man this program is kinda long...
[03:36:05] <PetefromTn_> I need to tidy up the code if I am gonna make a bunch more of these LOL
[03:37:00] <PetefromTn_> I love midnight machining..
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[03:54:42] <XXCoder1> lol
[03:54:55] <XXCoder1> I cant wait to play around with cnc
[03:55:43] <PetefromTn_> Its awesome man
[03:55:58] <XXCoder1> I think I will mostly start off with art
[03:55:59] <PetefromTn_> Once you have a good working machine that is... before that is is FRUSTRATING..
[03:56:03] <XXCoder1> in my culture stuff
[03:58:00] <XXCoder1> I just ordered 4 couplers
[03:58:07] <XXCoder1> 3 to use and one as backup. save postage
[03:59:48] <PetefromTn_> Sweet..
[04:00:57] <PetefromTn_> Making the second part right now. First one came out BEAUTIFUL!!
[04:00:57] <XXCoder1> yeah. last buys will be diffult :( I needs certain screws that will work with my nema23 and other stuff
[04:08:03] <PetefromTn_> Jeez this place has been dead as hell today..
[04:08:32] <XXCoder1> yeah
[04:08:35] <XXCoder1> oh well
[04:08:48] <XXCoder1> not as dead as #cnc though lol
[04:08:54] <XXCoder1> I'm been alone there for while. lol
[04:09:20] <XXCoder1> I guess channel owners left in 2004 or so, as last used date shows
[04:15:02] <PetefromTn_> I guess everyone has better things to do huh.
[04:15:51] <PetefromTn_> I did manage to get a nice Scientific calculator/graphing calculator on craigslist for a song.
[04:16:07] <PetefromTn_> The guy I worked in the shop with uses one to figure out feeds and speeds.
[04:16:18] <PetefromTn_> He told me if I get one he will help me program it.
[04:16:25] <PetefromTn_> We did it over the phone last night.
[04:16:32] <PetefromTn_> Now I can try to learn how he does it.
[04:16:32] <XXCoder1> nice
[04:16:54] <XXCoder1> i probably will use http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard
[04:16:55] <PetefromTn_> It is actually pretty simple but you need to know chip loads etc to use it.
[04:17:05] <PetefromTn_> Yeah that is actually what I have been using.
[04:17:06] <XXCoder1> has limitions though like no plywood and some others
[04:17:41] <PetefromTn_> I got a TI 83 plus..
[04:17:48] <PetefromTn_> They are like $90.00 new or so.
[04:17:56] <PetefromTn_> I got this one for $25.00
[04:18:11] <PetefromTn_> It is so brand new looking and the guy even put fresh batteries in it LOL
[04:18:20] <PetefromTn_> I love getting a good deal.
[04:18:26] <XXCoder1> I still have my ti 83 from college days
[04:18:41] <XXCoder1> hmm I should check it batteries soon thoygh been few years
[04:18:44] <PetefromTn_> Damn good calculator
[04:19:42] <XXCoder1> yeah
[04:19:46] <XXCoder1> played games on it too lol
[04:20:40] <PetefromTn_> they have games?
[04:21:19] <XXCoder1> yeah simple ones, but probably cant find on internet nowdays
[04:21:50] <PetefromTn_> I went to look at a car yesterday...
[04:22:02] <PetefromTn_> Trying to find another Pontiac Fiero GT project car.
[04:22:17] <PetefromTn_> Drove all the way up to Kentucky about three hours one way.
[04:22:25] <PetefromTn_> Guy had a real nice looking one in pictures.
[04:22:35] <PetefromTn_> Got there and it looked nice indeed.
[04:22:50] <PetefromTn_> Was about ready to buy it but we jacked it up and I started to look for rust.
[04:23:26] <PetefromTn_> the whole rear frame rails in the back were rusted like swiss cheese..
[04:23:26] <PetefromTn_> I was so bummed out.
[04:23:27] <XXCoder1> and you found good mine for iron oxide?
[04:23:42] <XXCoder1> ow
[04:24:12] <PetefromTn_> man it was bad..
[04:24:12] <PetefromTn_> Sucks too because it was a pretty car.
[04:24:12] <PetefromTn_> The price was right too..
[04:24:38] <XXCoder1> maybe if you could make new frame
[04:24:43] <XXCoder1> and cut price by half again
[04:26:36] <XXCoder1> wonder if this would work http://www.amazon.com/Socket-Internal-Threaded-Threads-Imported/dp/B00598DI9I/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1401596776&sr=1-5&keywords=%2310+screw
[04:27:00] <PetefromTn_> Drove up there and spent a bunch of gas money and lunch and snacks for nothing.
[04:27:00] <PetefromTn_> Yeah I actually have the tools and skills to fix the whole damn thing but I did not want to start off a project like this and have to tear the whole damn car apart...
[04:27:00] <PetefromTn_> The bodywork on the car was pretty nice...
[04:27:20] <XXCoder1> too bad really
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[04:28:54] <XXCoder1> I dont understand that stats though
[04:29:08] <XXCoder1> it says length of 10 mm but head length of 1 1/4 inches??
[04:29:29] <XXCoder1> head diameter of 1 7/8 inch
[04:29:31] <XXCoder1> bit of wtf
[04:29:58] <PetefromTn_> for what?
[04:30:07] <XXCoder1> amazon link I just pasted here
[04:30:13] <PetefromTn_> yup..
[04:30:26] <XXCoder1> probably bulk bolt for my cnc
[04:30:29] <XXCoder1> not sure
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[04:31:12] <XXCoder1> since its so cheap I probably could order 2 packs for total of 200 and cut some to length
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[04:35:10] <XXCoder1> anyway should look at lowes first or something
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[04:37:11] <PetefromTn_> get it from Mcmaster carr...
[04:37:22] <XXCoder1> ok
[04:37:38] <XXCoder1> I gonna do some planning first so I dont get stuck with too few or too many :(
[04:37:41] <XXCoder1> er :)
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[04:42:15] <PetefromTn_> Mcmaster has some nice fasteners and they are reasonable.
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[04:44:12] <XXCoder1> ok
[04:46:17] <XXCoder1> hey pretty gppd
[04:46:18] <XXCoder1> good
[04:47:03] <XXCoder1> site needs redesign though I actually has scroll lag a bit lol
[04:50:03] <XXCoder1> to countine browsing, please login in??
[04:53:57] <PetefromTn_> dunno man works for me.
[04:54:18] <PetefromTn_> two more ops and this second part is done dude!
[04:54:27] <PetefromTn_> At least the first side.
[04:54:37] <toastyde1th> on the off chance I'm asking this question, is anyone here a really experienced runner?
[04:54:44] <toastyde1th> slash knows a lot about training running
[04:55:13] <PetefromTn_> I don't run unless a large intimidating dude with a gun is chasing me....
[04:55:50] <XXCoder1> wow keepass dont work with that site!!
[04:55:53] <XXCoder1> first time.
[04:56:50] <PetefromTn_> I gotta grind the shank of this cutter so it does not rub on the second depth pass a bit.
[04:57:01] <toastyde1th> XXCoder1, keepass has autotype
[04:57:15] <XXCoder1> it sure couldnt detect my login
[04:57:21] <toastyde1th> that's what i use b/c rdp hates copy paste
[04:57:23] <XXCoder1> but ok
[04:58:34] <XXCoder1> I use keepfox to automate lot stuff for firefox
[04:59:44] <revo14> guys how i can have this tool in linuxcnc-----DXF 2 G-CODE, Version 0.1
[04:59:59] <revo14> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators#Dxf2gcode_import_a_2D_DXF_file_and_produce_G_code
[05:01:29] <PetefromTn_> Damn this machine kicks ass...!!
[05:01:38] <XXCoder1> any pic? lol
[05:02:07] <PetefromTn_> I tried to post pics of the ones I made a few days ago and it did not work.
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[05:02:56] <XXCoder1> oh yeah one you bought from china and black anodized? or was it someone else
[05:04:08] <XXCoder1> just random thought - wonder if theres nice svg to toolpath
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[05:04:31] <toastyde1th> i'm a little perplexed at the need for doing simple parts from svg
[05:04:43] <XXCoder1> I'm very good with inkscape
[05:04:46] <toastyde1th> if it's all straight lines and whatnot, it's fairly easy to code by hand
[05:04:51] <XXCoder1> curves and all
[05:05:10] <toastyde1th> if they're circles, there's no problem
[05:05:16] <toastyde1th> just a start, end, and a radius
[05:05:25] <XXCoder1> yeah circles stright edges I dont need inkscape
[05:05:56] <XXCoder1> http://www.makercam.com/ hm
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[05:10:27] <PetefromTn_> Well I gotta get to bed now.. Parts are done on first side.
[05:10:33] <PetefromTn_> Tomorrow I should be able to finish them.
[05:10:39] <PetefromTn_> Gn8 folks.
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[05:20:27] <XXCoder1> wow
[05:20:42] <XXCoder1> it gets pricy quick with thickness - those alum stuff lol
[05:21:01] <XXCoder1> 12"x48" 2 inxhes thicj is 530 bucks or so
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[07:02:10] <Deejay> moin
[07:03:08] <Jymmm> hpwdy
[07:03:12] <Jymmm> howdy
[07:03:46] <Deejay> hi Jymmm
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[12:36:49] <archivist> antique machines http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/63497-100-year-old-machine-shop
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[12:58:17] <jthornton> wow
[13:03:41] <jthornton> anyone try the RTAI on precise
[13:06:44] <Jymmm> jthornton: Now you know how clean your shop can look like in 100 years =)
[13:07:11] <Jymmm> you too archivist =)
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[13:10:01] <Jymmm> A one man shop, and he has what, 6 lathes?
[13:10:01] <Jymmm> You forgot to say ONLY. "A one man shop, and he has what, ONLY 6 lathes?"
[13:10:17] <Jymmm> heh
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[13:14:56] <Jymmm> Ok, someone else on that forum also commented on how clean it was. I thought it was only me that had my doubts.
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[13:24:25] <Jymmm> My laser cartridge (tube and RF) kicked the bucket after 12 years. The local rep brought his cartridge out to confirm that it wasn't the controller board.
[13:25:51] <Jymmm> To exchange my 30W for a 30W is $1200 to my door. I could benefit from a 50W but that'll be $4000.
[13:27:53] <Jymmm> Ebay has 50W chinese laser for $2200 local free delivery (50 miles).
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[13:28:37] <Jymmm> Replacement tube is $200, but comes from china.
[13:28:55] <Jymmm> Not sure which way to go. thoughts?
[13:29:14] <Jymmm> err shipped from china*
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[13:35:58] <Jymmm> hahahaha, love it.... "Whenever they get another hole in the roof they fasten a funnel under it and run a hose outside."
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[13:43:11] <Jymmm> 3D Gesture control for linuxcnc... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eclJ1mOFZZg
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[13:51:16] <CaptHindsight> archivist: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/loosenut_bucket/DSC_0012_zpsbe19a241.jpg how come out of all the machines this is the only part with a guard?
[13:52:09] <Jymmm> 220MPH in 2 minutes, is that good? Sounds a tad slow.
[13:52:42] <archivist> CaptHindsight, photo fukkit gives a white screen
[13:53:33] <CaptHindsight> #9 from the top in that collection
[13:53:59] <Jymmm> I get the pic here and with ABP enabled.
[13:54:53] <archivist> the only guard painted yellow
[13:55:10] <archivist> there are plenty other guards
[13:55:58] <archivist> I imagine elf an safety has visited
[13:56:20] <CaptHindsight> what powered all the belts?
[13:58:36] <archivist> we had an electric motor in the loft at the museum
[13:58:43] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I think someone said a 5HP motor
[13:59:27] <Jymmm> archivist: What size motor do you guys have?
[13:59:41] <CaptHindsight> "At one time I would think it was a steam engine"
[14:00:14] <archivist> part the claymills workshop is steam engine driven
[14:00:22] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Heh, it probably heated the shop too =)
[14:01:06] <Jymmm> archivist: I meant the one you said was in the loft.
[14:01:07] <archivist> in some places it would be an old single cylinder oil engine
[14:01:24] <archivist> cant remember
[14:01:33] <Jymmm> 5HP or less?
[14:01:58] <archivist> but it was big enough to need a star delta starter
[14:02:49] <Jymmm> archivist: I've just never dealt with all that ceiling belt driven stuff, just thought it would need LOTS of torque to get started.
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[14:15:34] <Jymmm> Railroads burn 4 million gallons of fuel each day?! Only surpassed in consumption by the US Navy in wartime
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[14:34:38] <Jymmm> Has anyone played with electromagnetic linear rails before?
[14:36:19] <XXCoder1> archivist: nice link!
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[14:37:08] <archivist> XXCoder1, a bit of machine prOn for a Sunday
[14:37:12] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: order 3 chinese replacement tubes? in least one will be working and still cheaper?
[14:37:28] <XXCoder1> order em 3 seperate times though
[14:38:39] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: how's your project going? I already have X and Y axes running :P
[14:38:51] <XXCoder1> still getting parts, but getting close!
[14:39:07] <kfoltman> "running" might not be a good term, "crawling while grinding loudly" is perhaps more appropriate
[14:39:32] <kfoltman> had to reduce speed to 1440mm/min and it *knocks wood* doesn't grind anymore
[14:39:44] <kfoltman> or, rather, it still grinds, just doesn't stall
[14:39:46] <XXCoder1> I just need bunch of screws, drill press, probably table saw but will figure how to do stright cuts on plywood
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[14:39:59] <XXCoder1> oh and router too of course, it being router cnc lol
[14:40:22] <kfoltman> drill press, definitely (I did without, but it's a pain in the arse), table saw, maybe - you might ask your friendly wood supplier to cut parts for you
[14:40:46] <leonardo_> Hello to all of you! I hope not to interrupt but I have a little question regarding comp :)
[14:40:53] <XXCoder1> doubt they will cut scrap woo for me :D
[14:40:59] <XXCoder1> ask away
[14:41:30] <leonardo_> Well, I have compiled my component and everything seems to work, but I get a warning when compiling
[14:41:35] <leonardo_> the warning says : warning: the frame size of 57680 bytes is larger than 2560 bytes
[14:41:35] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: scrap wood, no, but they might sell you their plywood cut to your spec for a few dollars/euros
[14:41:42] <XXCoder1> indeed
[14:42:09] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: a table saw will definitely cost you more
[14:42:17] <kfoltman> not to mention storage space
[14:42:38] <XXCoder1> yeah thats why i doubt I can do table saw. I got enough scrap to complete the cnc though
[14:42:46] <XXCoder1> and I can get more for free.
[14:43:01] <kfoltman> what about a mitre saw? at least it's smaller
[14:43:42] <kfoltman> some designs (like Solsylva 13x13) are based on little more than cross-cut 2x4s
[14:43:44] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: i have the advantage of living in germany. the german "baumarkt" usually has a big circular saw on linear rails to cut plywood
[14:43:45] <XXCoder1> has large one
[14:43:51] <XXCoder1> rather my bro does
[14:43:56] <Jymmm> XXCoder1 It's not so much availability of the tubes, as the chinese tool itself vs quality version
[14:44:13] <kfoltman> tubes?
[14:44:20] <Loetmichel> if you tell the employee there which part have to be the same size tey will cut it stacked in one cut so it is exactly the same
[14:44:24] <Loetmichel> done that a few times
[14:44:26] <Jymmm> kfoltman: CO2 laser tube
[14:44:27] <XXCoder1> laser tubes relatong to his earlier question
[14:44:40] <XXCoder1> thats true jy
[14:44:41] <Loetmichel> like the parts for this:
[14:44:44] <kfoltman> Jymmm: ah :)
[14:44:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935
[14:45:14] <XXCoder1> I menioned that he could buy 3 plus shipping for $1000 compared to one new quality one for $2200
[14:45:19] <Loetmichel> ... which looks inside like this: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
[14:45:27] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: yum
[14:45:36] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: new toy?
[14:45:44] <XXCoder1> vaccuum holder?
[14:45:44] <Loetmichel> ooooold toy ;-)
[14:45:44] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: heh, that thing I'm building is 20x20 work area... in cm :S
[14:45:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ah
[14:46:11] <Loetmichel> made it for my ex-boss ;-)
[14:46:37] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: that was a machine for 8hrs a day 5 days a week use
[14:46:48] <Loetmichel> in a small model parts company
[14:46:53] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: I'm going to call a place this week the recharges tubes, the only sad thing is they dont mention ULS on their website, mostly synrad and coherant.
[14:47:16] <Loetmichel> it had cut mostly FR4 and Carbon sheets for 3 years
[14:47:20] <XXCoder1> how do tubes get recharged? plug in wall? heh jk
[14:47:27] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: double X axis?
[14:47:43] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Refilled with gas mixture.
[14:47:56] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Internal optics replaced.
[14:48:01] <XXCoder1> sounds like cheaper option? but then..
[14:48:07] <ChuangTzu> the chinese tubes are cheap
[14:48:13] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Well, cheaper IF they can do it.
[14:48:25] <XXCoder1> yeah calling em first is cheaper
[14:48:33] <ChuangTzu> lol
[14:48:48] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: Worse they could say is no, BUT might know someone that does.
[14:49:23] <Jymmm> If they can recharge and waranty for $750 vs $1200 wiuld be a nice savings.
[14:49:24] <XXCoder1> nah worse is that they now know you has nice tube and breaks in your house to take it lol
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[14:49:43] <ChuangTzu> how many watts?
[14:49:43] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: "Say hello to my little friend"
[14:49:49] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: 30W
[14:50:13] <Jymmm> But my machine can be upgraded to 50W
[14:50:17] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: double y axis
[14:50:20] <ChuangTzu> how much better is it than the chinese ones?
[14:50:22] <Loetmichel> connected at the back
[14:50:22] <Jymmm> for $$$$ of course =)
[14:50:24] <ChuangTzu> because that's really expensive
[14:50:27] <ChuangTzu> :S
[14:50:48] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: Dramatically better.
[14:51:02] <ChuangTzu> in what way
[14:51:14] <Jymmm> Quality
[14:51:19] <ChuangTzu> which qualities
[14:51:34] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7080
[14:51:36] <XXCoder1> power, focus, pleasure? or all?
[14:51:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7086
[14:51:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7083 <- Video!
[14:51:52] <Jymmm> all
[14:51:53] <ChuangTzu> what's your spot size?
[14:51:59] <Jymmm> 2.0
[14:52:02] <ChuangTzu> microns?
[14:52:09] <ChuangTzu> or mil
[14:52:10] <ChuangTzu> ?
[14:52:11] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: belt transmission? considering it for v2.0 :)
[14:52:12] <XXCoder1> picometers
[14:52:14] <ChuangTzu> :S
[14:52:24] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: Go look it up... ULS M-300
[14:52:30] <ChuangTzu> so you don't know
[14:52:33] <ChuangTzu> you're just assuming?
[14:52:44] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: kust belt connetion of the two ballscrews so that it cant loose alignment
[14:52:47] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: Just tired of the 50,000 questions =)
[14:53:23] <XXCoder1> Loetmichel: encoder to keep track?
[14:53:24] <Tom_itx> it was only 49,999
[14:53:25] <ChuangTzu> we've been using this 90W chinese tube on a daily basis for a few years now
[14:53:27] <Tom_itx> get a grip
[14:53:37] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: no
[14:53:49] <Loetmichel> simply both stepper drivers connected to the same LPT pin
[14:53:55] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: You need to scroll back to my original questions
[14:54:18] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: ah, so there are two separate motors, not a single motor driving two screws via belt drive?
[14:54:29] <Loetmichel> no, not originally
[14:54:43] <ChuangTzu> i'd say go with the $200 chinese tube
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[14:54:55] <Loetmichel> thats the way the new owner of the shop killed the machine, though
[14:54:59] <ChuangTzu> because we have no problems with ours
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[14:55:07] <ChuangTzu> focuses down to about 15um
[14:55:15] <Jymmm> ChuangTzu: Again, You need to scroll back to my original questions. youe missing the context here.
[14:55:19] <ChuangTzu> i did scroll up
[14:55:43] <ChuangTzu> of course i can never know if i've scrolled sufficiently far back
[14:56:31] <XXCoder1> if you start seeing convos about ww2 you went too far back
[14:56:37] <ChuangTzu> 08:28:37 Jymmm : Replacement tube is $200, but comes from china.
[14:56:38] <ChuangTzu> 08:28:55 Jymmm : Not sure which way to go. thoughts?
[14:56:43] <Jymmm> My laser cartridge
[14:56:56] <Jymmm> scroll back to that
[14:57:05] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: front of the machine. there you can see the two steppers connected by two short belts to the ballscrews. http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4403
[14:57:50] <ChuangTzu> yeah, read that
[14:58:24] <XXCoder1> Loetmichel: that work surface
[14:58:28] <XXCoder1> is it vaccuum?
[14:58:38] <Loetmichel> no, just 50mm of MFD
[14:58:42] <XXCoder1> oh
[14:58:49] <Loetmichel> i mounted the work parts on it by use of spax ;-)
[14:58:55] <kfoltman> I can't see the steppers there, just the mounting screws I think ;)
[14:59:07] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: the steppers are inside the base
[14:59:22] <XXCoder1> car sized cnc machine I worked on had vaccuum hold. its nice but bit flawed. I did many parts before one of side holders failed and cut went bad
[14:59:22] <Loetmichel> ... searching
[14:59:44] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4585&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[14:59:56] <Loetmichel> (please ignore the chaos)
[15:00:32] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Chaos?! Ha, nothing compared to my week
[15:00:51] <XXCoder1> man
[15:01:00] <XXCoder1> very nice pics of 100+ yr old shop
[15:01:47] <Loetmichel> no, just my hobby room
[15:02:04] <Loetmichel> which had barely fit the machine
[15:02:07] <XXCoder1> loet I wasnt talking about your pic :)
[15:02:14] <Loetmichel> had about 1 meter around it ;-)
[15:02:18] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry then ;-)
[15:02:44] <Tom_itx> Jymmm what do you need linear rails for?
[15:02:53] <XXCoder1> http://www.makercam.com/
[15:02:57] <Tom_itx> they are fast and expensive...
[15:03:04] <XXCoder1> wrong link
[15:03:13] <XXCoder1> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/63497-100-year-old-machine-shop
[15:03:36] <XXCoder1> nice pattern on cnc loer lol
[15:03:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: electromagnetic linear rails. Just a concept thing
[15:03:58] <Tom_itx> Jymmm the 50W chinese laser would probably be 30W actual
[15:04:22] <Tom_itx> they aren't a concept. they acutally exhist
[15:04:31] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: looks nice
[15:04:33] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Sure, I derate chinese stuff by 40% usually =)
[15:04:48] <Loetmichel> the patttern is on the "plywood"
[15:04:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Under $100?
[15:04:51] <Tom_itx> so get the good 30W
[15:04:55] <Tom_itx> and be done with it
[15:05:11] <Loetmichel> ... its called "siebdruckplatte" in german, meaning " sieve printing sheet"
[15:05:16] <Tom_itx> you could get a spare for the cost of the 50W
[15:08:26] <XXCoder1> lol ok
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[15:10:18] <Loetmichel> i think in america it is called "marine plywood"
[15:10:36] <Loetmichel> the dark brown stuff is melamin resin iirc
[15:10:39] <XXCoder1> fancy. I rather get free scrap though ;)
[15:11:01] <Loetmichel> instead of the usual white glue
[15:11:07] <Loetmichel> so it is more or less waterproof
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[15:12:14] <SpeedEvil> There is a halfway house - 'water and boil proof' - which is not resin - but is decently resistant to water and heat
[15:13:40] <XXCoder1> I guess I see why navy would like that.
[15:14:31] <Loetmichel> i use this stuff for CNC machines because it has no length change with change in humidity
[15:14:38] <Loetmichel> as any other "wood" has
[15:15:05] <SpeedEvil> Heat-treated wood greatly reduces the change in length
[15:15:05] <FrankZappa> whoa
[15:15:11] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: if you mean linear servos, yes I use them all the time http://www.ebay.com/itm/310663941283
[15:15:20] <FrankZappa> wood for a cnc machine?
[15:15:26] <SpeedEvil> http://www.maxwellwoodsb.com/TheProcess.html
[15:15:28] <FrankZappa> must be using large cross sections
[15:15:35] <Tom_itx> is refrigeration copper tube the same as gas copper tubing?
[15:15:46] <ChuangTzu> so get a 50W chinese, call it a 30W, and still save a ton of money...
[15:15:50] <FrankZappa> Ipe wood is dimensionally stable.
[15:15:53] <XXCoder1> frank there is lots wood cncs out there
[15:15:59] <SpeedEvil> If you triple the thickness of a beam made from cast iron, and make it of wood, then you get the same stiffness.
[15:16:17] <renesis> wood isnt really dimensionally stable
[15:16:20] <SpeedEvil> If you quadruple the thickness, you can have a hollow beam.
[15:16:21] <CaptHindsight> red vs blue marked copper tube, the difference is the wall thickness
[15:16:22] <XXCoder1> mine wont be treated by heat or anything so yeah less precision but not that concerned.
[15:16:25] <renesis> but plywood isnt just wood
[15:16:47] <renesis> frankzappa: i wouldnt use it for a heavily loaded machine
[15:16:54] <XXCoder1> mine will be combination plywood and.. well wood lol
[15:16:58] * Tom_itx waits for the carpentry class to end and the plumbing class to begin
[15:17:02] <renesis> like, 3d printing or angraving or light routing, prob fine
[15:17:07] <FrankZappa> renesis - well these were used for steering pins in early transatlantic ocean vessels
[15:17:08] <renesis> *engraving
[15:17:15] <XXCoder1> I'm sure rails and such will help on precision a bit though
[15:17:18] <FrankZappa> constant seawater contact
[15:17:22] <FrankZappa> heavy axial loading
[15:17:28] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: And that's all magnetic? No leadscrews?
[15:17:32] <FrankZappa> need to maintain dimensions
[15:17:33] <renesis> i dont know what steering pins is
[15:17:55] <FrankZappa> the thing that transferred mechanical energy from the ship's wheel to the rudders
[15:18:02] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070711085813AAR1zz1
[15:18:05] <renesis> o
[15:18:10] <FrankZappa> it was always underwater.
[15:18:11] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes, no screws
[15:18:16] <Loetmichel> FrankZappa: the machines i made are stiffer than most of the "chinese" gantry routers
[15:18:20] <FrankZappa> they don't call it "ironwood" for nothin
[15:18:28] <Loetmichel> by orders of magnitude
[15:18:38] <FrankZappa> well, stiffness is a sectional property
[15:18:39] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, tubing not pipe
[15:18:48] <Tom_itx> i know about thick and thinwall copper pipe
[15:18:49] <Loetmichel> and more precise
[15:18:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: interesting. Are they weight bearing, menaing can you put 50lbs+ on them?
[15:18:59] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: the same, difference in wall thickness
[15:19:13] <Tom_itx> what about annealed roll copper?
[15:19:34] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: even hundred or thousands, they just get bigger
[15:19:40] <FrankZappa> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444868204578063091931357384
[15:19:43] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ah
[15:19:48] <FrankZappa> ^ article on Ipe
[15:20:14] <Tom_itx> i assume either would work for low pressure gas line
[15:20:27] <Tom_itx> since refrigeration isn't low pressure
[15:20:32] <Loetmichel> FrankZappa: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[15:20:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11175
[15:20:44] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhcZBr38Kmc look Ma no screws!
[15:20:51] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11169
[15:21:02] <FrankZappa> dlitched plywood stanchions?
[15:21:05] <FrankZappa> flitched
[15:21:12] <FrankZappa> I thought everything was wood :)
[15:21:13] <XXCoder1> and freakin fast CaptHindsight
[15:21:19] <XXCoder1> insane
[15:21:30] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: yes, some do several G's
[15:21:47] <CaptHindsight> I use them for precision and zero lash
[15:21:50] <Loetmichel> FrankZappa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgOD4uny5wg
[15:22:13] <XXCoder1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jleS4nog5UQ
[15:22:20] <XXCoder1> do the dance!!
[15:22:35] <XXCoder1> not magnetic though
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[15:23:05] <kfoltman> 2000 mm/*second* :)
[15:23:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: IT'S HAVING A SEIZURE!!!! lol
[15:23:19] <XXCoder1> lol
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[15:24:08] <kfoltman> guys, any opinions re: using proxxon ib/e for a spindle for PCB?
[15:25:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifBPgVDvvK0 Linear Motors in Motion
[15:25:09] <kfoltman> or, any alternatives that would still allow me to use it for light milling of plastics/wood? (enclosures, not furniture)
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[15:25:50] <XXCoder1> would regular router do pcb engraving?
[15:26:02] <SpeedEvil> No.
[15:26:08] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: too much runout for anything SMD
[15:26:16] <SpeedEvil> PCB routing is basically comedically bad in general.
[15:26:34] <SpeedEvil> Unless you have _extreme_ performance.
[15:26:57] <SpeedEvil> 150000RPM+ spindle, +5um or so Z axis, vacuum clamping to the bed, ...
[15:26:57] <kfoltman> the performance of my machine is indeed extreme
[15:27:01] <kfoltman> extremely bad, that is
[15:27:38] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: I posted that vid a few days ago in ##embedded
[15:27:54] <SpeedEvil> You can do laser-printer transfer and get 300dpi++ with a little prep.
[15:28:00] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: it wouldnt? why?
[15:28:23] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: hmmm
[15:28:24] <SpeedEvil> Loetmichel: You really (today) want to be able to make 0.25mm tracks with 0.25mm gaps betwen them
[15:28:27] <kfoltman> some russian guy milling quite decent looking 0.5mm tqfp pads with a machine comparable to mine in terms of components (not build quality of course)
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[15:28:50] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: so?
[15:28:51] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[15:29:06] <Loetmichel> dont thell that the cheap chinese CNC 6040 i have used ;-)
[15:29:07] <SpeedEvil> This can be surprisingly annoying. Especially as you're trying to cut a 15um copper layer on top of an abrasive substrate which may not be very flat
[15:29:31] <SpeedEvil> Right - that's what I would call total crap
[15:30:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14507 <- $me thinks that is pretty decent
[15:30:08] <SpeedEvil> You can literally do that freehand with a sharpie.
[15:30:19] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: actually, I wouldn't mind that sort of results
[15:30:40] <kfoltman> I wouldn't be *happy* with them, but it would still be usable for I/O boards and such
[15:30:55] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: 0.8mm TQFP?
[15:30:55] <Loetmichel> and that is less than 0,15mm isolation trench
[15:30:58] <SpeedEvil> I'd personally argue that it's way easier to setup a simple etch tank
[15:31:06] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: 0.6mm
[15:31:25] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: looks good to me
[15:31:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[15:31:40] <Loetmichel> i may have to correct that
[15:31:40] <SpeedEvil> Ah - I was assuming the DIP was the smallest component as that's all I saw on the youtube
[15:31:48] <Loetmichel> was a Mega8
[15:31:57] <kfoltman> atmegas are 0.8mm I think
[15:32:00] <kfoltman> but still
[15:32:21] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzmjGz0_joM PCB Etching with Lasers
[15:32:36] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: if it can do 0.66mm ones, then it's already a lot of possibilities
[15:32:55] <Loetmichel> SpeedEvil: to make a prototype it is much better than an etch tank
[15:32:57] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: you know my etching adventures, it was pain in the ass too
[15:33:09] <kfoltman> + you still need to drill it afterwards
[15:33:11] <SpeedEvil> I never had much problem with etching.
[15:33:20] <Loetmichel> especially because my PCB software can write gcode directly ;-)
[15:33:22] <SpeedEvil> surface mount works well
[15:33:46] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=281OClYotrY 2-Layer Circuit Boards Using Laser Cutter / Chemical Etching
[15:34:00] <Loetmichel> the 50++ series of that had been made by a pcb manufacturer of course ;-)
[15:34:22] <kfoltman> SpeedEvil: maybe my laser printer has a lousy toner, I don't know, but I had plenty of failures and only some successes
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[15:34:23] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i have done 0,1mm isolation trench
[15:34:36] <Loetmichel> so i see no problem, in doing 0,6mm chips
[15:34:47] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: what spindle is that?
[15:34:50] <kfoltman> and what bit?
[15:35:07] <Loetmichel> "standard" chinese 800W watercooled spindle
[15:35:26] <kfoltman> ehh, watercooled... :S
[15:35:51] <Loetmichel> and these bits: http://www.sorotec.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p179_vhm-fraesstichel-30-.html
[15:36:00] <XXCoder1> what wattage laser would nbe needed to cut wood? curious lol
[15:36:19] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: ehere is the problem with atercooled?
[15:36:26] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: water
[15:36:27] <Loetmichel> my machine at home has the same spindle
[15:36:28] <SpeedEvil> Depends on how thick you want to cut and how fast
[15:36:36] <Loetmichel> it is not very complicated
[15:36:40] <CaptHindsight> XXCoder1: 1MJ will definitely do it
[15:36:46] <XXCoder1> one inch and not millions of years lol
[15:36:46] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I rent a house
[15:36:56] <XXCoder1> or even month lol
[15:37:14] <kfoltman> CaptHindsight: MJ is dead you insensitive clod!
[15:37:26] * kfoltman is old
[15:37:41] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: my machine at home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[15:38:07] <Loetmichel> not really a problem with the water
[15:38:19] <kfoltman> looks... messy
[15:38:22] <Loetmichel> just a lot quieter than an air cooled one ;-)
[15:38:23] * kfoltman doesn't want a divorce
[15:38:47] <kfoltman> probably not THAT bad though
[15:38:49] <CaptHindsight> the problem with all the pcb milling or laser etching is the lack of plated through holes
[15:39:08] <Loetmichel> messy? wiht less than 5 liters of water?
[15:39:16] <Loetmichel> what could possibly happen?
[15:39:30] <XXCoder1> handcam videos make me sick. literally
[15:39:33] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: I have that same desk lap
[15:39:35] <Loetmichel> or did you mean my usual chaos ;-)
[15:39:35] <malcom2073> lamp*
[15:39:37] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: 5l of spilled water
[15:39:55] <malcom2073> Very useful :)
[15:40:06] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: i have a whole bunch of these
[15:40:06] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I mean, it's probably doable, but cost + more stuff to set up + more things to go wrong - I just wouldn't choose it as my first set-up
[15:40:28] <Loetmichel> i really like the low noise of it
[15:40:41] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: why not mod your laser cutter to work with the water cooled Asian tubes and Yag's, blueray, etc, then you can cut, etch, SLA etc
[15:40:43] <Loetmichel> and it costs not really more than the air cooled variant
[15:41:28] <Loetmichel> not counting a bucket, an $10 spring pump and a few feet of pvc hose
[15:41:55] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: VFD?
[15:42:07] <Loetmichel> was delivered with the spindle ;-)
[15:42:16] <Loetmichel> as a package for less than $350
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[15:42:32] <Loetmichel> preprogrammed
[15:42:40] <Loetmichel> so "plug and play"
[15:44:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Mine is air cooled/RF Excited, not water cooled/HV Excited. The chamber is far too short to install a Chinese CO2 tube. I won't do any perm mods becasue the street value of the machine as it stands now (even with a dead tube) is still $4000 easily.
[15:45:30] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: was a kit similar to this: http://www.ebay.de/itm/EXTREMELY-EFFICIENT-SPINDELMOTOR-0-8KW-PASSENDEM-INVERTER-WATER-COOLER-VFD-l2-/200991076532
[15:45:37] <XXCoder1> I saw guide online on how to build co2 laser tube lol
[15:45:39] <XXCoder1> insane
[15:46:16] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: blowing glass?
[15:46:17] <XXCoder1> http://hackaday.io/project/1023-Low-Cost-CO2-Laser-Build
[15:46:26] <XXCoder1> lol its not that fancy
[15:47:13] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: says 515 euro with shipping :S
[15:47:35] <Loetmichel> hi?
[15:47:36] <kfoltman> to Ireland
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[15:47:37] <Loetmichel> hu`
[15:47:49] <XXCoder1> Jymmm: one bad thing about that guide is that it does not cover all aspects of build.
[15:47:49] <kfoltman> free shipping to Germany, 300 euro shipping to Ireland
[15:47:52] <XXCoder1> sucks.
[15:47:56] <Loetmichel> it says 215 eur "including shipping" here
[15:48:09] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: that is bad
[15:48:10] <Jymmm> XXCoder1: They NEVER do =)
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[15:48:24] <XXCoder1> yeah
[15:48:28] <Loetmichel> because it comes from GB, ireland should be cheaper than .de ;-)
[15:48:57] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/130806021363
[15:49:00] <Loetmichel> but you will find similar
[15:49:37] <Loetmichel> kooks about the same, just bigger motor
[15:49:50] <ChuangTzu> kooks
[15:49:53] <ChuangTzu> lol
[15:50:05] <Loetmichel> but beware: the bigger motor has a bigger outer diameter and is nearly double as heavy.
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[15:50:20] <Loetmichel> if your machine can acommodate that: buy ;-)
[15:50:27] <Loetmichel> looks
[15:50:42] <Loetmichel> ChuangTzu: i make a lot of typos.
[15:50:57] <malcom2073> Looking at putting together my first router, I can geta shapeoko for $300 (+$300 for a G540 and some steppers I have laying around, and a dremel I have laying around), OR a chinese 6040 for $1500 (+ 300 gecko drive to replace the crap electronics)? I want to do silly tinkering around with MDF and the like, is it worth spending 3x more on the 6040, or should I just sell the shapeoko once I outgrow it, and spend that money on building myself
[15:50:57] <malcom2073> the 4x8 I always wanted :)
[15:50:59] <Loetmichel> so what?
[15:51:04] <ChuangTzu> i understood what you meant
[15:51:12] <ChuangTzu> kooks is just a funny word
[15:51:30] <XXCoder1> malcom2073: $90 router from local shop?
[15:51:37] <humble_sea_bass> shapeoko isn't very stiff
[15:51:42] <XXCoder1> one with good range of rpm - from 8000 to 16,000
[15:51:59] <malcom2073> XXCoder1: That's another option instead of the dremel
[15:52:17] <XXCoder1> yeah dermel has bad side force sensivity if I recall
[15:52:17] <malcom2073> humble_sea_bass: That's a bit what I'm worried about, is the quality goign to be crap from the delryn wheels and aluminum rails?
[15:52:22] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: iirc the shapeoko isnt really "rigid". not that the 6040 is, but still the 6040 is much "better"
[15:52:23] <XXCoder1> it'd be real slow
[15:52:23] <humble_sea_bass> trim routers from bosch are the best bang for buck
[15:52:51] <XXCoder1> humble yeah was considering that one.
[15:52:55] <XXCoder1> what rpm range though?
[15:53:09] <XXCoder1> one site says only 35,000 rpm hmm
[15:53:11] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: also dremel has a very long unsupported shaft to the first bearing
[15:53:15] <XXCoder1> cant mill alum withg that I think
[15:53:17] <malcom2073> Need to see if someone around here has a shapeoko I can come by and check out haha
[15:53:26] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: bigger motor? 204mm long instead of 180mm, but should be the same otherwise?
[15:53:48] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=284
[15:53:54] <humble_sea_bass> I dunno what the low end of the RPM range is
[15:54:11] <XXCoder1> it just says 35,000 fixed rpm. might be that specific model
[15:54:17] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: oh, sorry. i may have had the size of the 2.2kw in mind
[15:54:20] <humble_sea_bass> it has 6 setting so probably something divisible by that
[15:54:33] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: anyway, I'll keep looking, especially if I can find a kit with mounts already
[15:54:54] <XXCoder1> "Variable Speed Yes "
[15:55:08] <XXCoder1> doesnt say what lower bound is though
[15:55:29] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: 2.2kW might be a little bit of overkill for my plywood-based machine
[15:55:34] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: "kugellager" means "ballbearing"
[15:55:55] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: it may
[15:56:20] <kfoltman> am I supposed not to drink the kugellager?
[15:56:22] <kfoltman> :P
[15:56:30] <XXCoder1> man! some listings is crap
[15:57:31] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i just wanted to show the point in "dremels are lousy CNC spindle because of the long unsupported and thin shaft"
[15:58:02] <XXCoder1> dermel pribably fine for engraving pcbs? heh
[15:58:03] <Loetmichel> even if in thet pic it is a copy. the original has exactly the same construction
[15:58:33] <Loetmichel> not really, because of gross runout and aluminium collets that NEVER sit centered
[15:58:39] <XXCoder1> good one http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/bosch1617EVSrtr.html
[15:58:41] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: so, that 'spring pump' and PVC tube - I guess PVC tube is not that hard to get, where can I get the pump?
[15:58:44] <XXCoder1> 8,000 to 25,000
[15:58:52] <XXCoder1> 8k rpm is probably low enough for alum?
[15:59:06] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: any hardware store that sells garden pond stuff
[15:59:08] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I think I'll go for the water-cooled stuff after all, seems not much more expensive than the proxxon and the parameters look yummy
[15:59:34] <kfoltman> and they ship from UK (or so they claim) so I won't be slapped with customs
[16:00:08] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: dont forget to order some ER collets fitting your preferred tools
[16:00:23] <Loetmichel> iirc there is only a 6mm collet provided
[16:01:06] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: that depends on the diameter of your tools
[16:01:20] <Loetmichel> i mill aluminium 24krpm regulary
[16:01:29] <Loetmichel> with a two flute 2mm mill bit
[16:01:38] <XXCoder1> interesting. ok
[16:01:50] <XXCoder1> what depth and what ipm?
[16:01:59] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: "Collet: ER11(3.175mm,4mm,6mm)" - what does it mean in practice?
[16:02:18] <kfoltman> http://www.ebay.ie/itm/WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-1-5-KW-INVERTER-VFD-1-5KW-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-DRIVE-xa-/111078779912 there are some adapters in that pic
[16:02:21] * kfoltman <- noob
[16:03:57] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i would THINK that you will be delivered with three collets
[16:04:01] <Loetmichel> in these sizes
[16:04:18] <Loetmichel> but i cant find a "list of shipped goods" anywhere
[16:04:47] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13221 <- these are er11 collets
[16:05:05] <Loetmichel> (and an er11 to 8mm straight shaft adapter)
[16:06:08] <malcom2073> Is this stuff going to have a lot of the same issues as the makerslide that shapeoko uses: https://store-itwgldve.mybigcommerce.com/product_images/uploaded_images/v-slot-v-ride-the-rail.jpg ?
[16:06:10] <Loetmichel> each collet can clamp its designated diamater and 0,5mm below
[16:06:53] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: i personally dont like slides that ride on aluminium extrusions
[16:07:05] <XXCoder1> HMMM http://hackaday.io/project/998-Affordable-Metal-3d-Printer
[16:07:09] <Loetmichel> because they are usually bent like a banana
[16:07:10] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: my stuff is made mostly out of 18mm plywood, 2 layers in some places, do you think that'll do?
[16:07:28] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: if you box it a lot: sure!
[16:07:45] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: what about this sort of thing: http://www.bg-cnc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/dscn2801.jpg
[16:07:53] <XXCoder1> its still in very early stages
[16:07:55] <Loetmichel> a single sheet of 18 or 21mm plywood isnt really stiff
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[16:08:53] <Loetmichel> if you make 2 sheets into a 50-100mm high "box" it will be stiff as hell
[16:09:24] * FrankZappa prefers to cast
[16:09:33] <Loetmichel> malcom2073: better because of the steel rods, but still the rail itseld may be bent like hell
[16:09:53] <malcom2073> Loetmichel: So I guess it would depend greatly on how it's supported/mounted
[16:09:54] <Loetmichel> if you have the right equipment to straighten it: looks good to me ;-)
[16:10:49] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: have you seen the pic of the CNC base i made?
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[16:11:00] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: the one that looked like little drawers?
[16:11:06] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4053
[16:11:18] <Loetmichel> of course there is a second sheet on top
[16:11:24] <kfoltman> what are the holes for?
[16:11:40] <Loetmichel> ... and about 1000 5mm by 50mm spax srews ;-)
[16:11:45] <kfoltman> :O
[16:11:47] <Loetmichel> -r+c
[16:12:11] <Loetmichel> the holes are just weight reduction and convenient cable routing
[16:12:25] <kfoltman> you put a screw in each intersection? :O
[16:12:30] <Loetmichel> two
[16:12:38] <kfoltman> ...
[16:13:14] <Loetmichel> but i may have overdone it a bit ;)
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[16:14:22] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I can't see myself doing it with my amount of patience ;) but should be stiff as hell :)
[16:15:07] <XXCoder1> expecially if it was filled with expoxy grinite lol
[16:15:15] <XXCoder1> hard as rock. literally
[16:15:15] <Loetmichel> here you can see the first day of building the second big machine: http://www.cyrom.org/pce/Lilafraese_tag1.avi
[16:15:32] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: not necessary
[16:15:58] <XXCoder1> yeah a big overkill lol
[16:16:00] <Loetmichel> if you do a base this way that is 200mm thick it is as stiff as a BLOCK of plywood 200mm thick
[16:17:01] <XXCoder1> nice
[16:17:11] <Loetmichel> ... i am the one in gray sweater with the cigarette always in the mouth ;-)
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[16:18:24] <XXCoder1> what rails was that?
[16:18:25] <XXCoder1> sbr?
[16:18:29] <Loetmichel> yes
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[16:18:46] <kfoltman> drill press?
[16:18:49] <XXCoder1> you used screws?
[16:18:51] <kfoltman> the green one in the left part
[16:18:56] <Loetmichel> yes
[16:19:13] <XXCoder1> I'm still not sure how to drill holes in my sbr rails lol
[16:19:17] <Loetmichel> to make the 100mm holes with a hole saw
[16:19:19] <XXCoder1> still need a drill press!
[16:19:22] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: shouldn't they already have holes?
[16:19:31] <XXCoder1> mine dont
[16:19:34] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: my sbr12 rails have holes 100mm apart
[16:19:45] <XXCoder1> chinese crap rails lol but works very well
[16:19:51] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: screws and "nail in nuts"
[16:19:54] <kfoltman> I find them very gritty
[16:20:06] <kfoltman> nail-in nuts?
[16:20:09] <XXCoder1> expecially since I took lots time cleaning metal and stuff crud out of bearings
[16:20:19] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: oh!
[16:20:32] <kfoltman> I only applied the amount of lube to put any gay sex party to shame
[16:20:39] <Loetmichel> http://www.bax-shop.de/penn-elcom-m6-einschlagmutter-100-stuck
[16:20:55] <XXCoder1> kfoltman: one nice tip: use hex tool to rotate balls, and do it inside cardboard box
[16:21:06] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: clean the ballcages of the sbrs
[16:21:12] <Loetmichel> they are usally full of dirt
[16:21:18] <kfoltman> :|
[16:21:18] <XXCoder1> so if you acciently pop balls trying to rotate stuck ones, you can just use magnetic tip screwdriver to opush it back in
[16:21:27] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I have some spare ones to practice on :)
[16:21:47] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: I became an expert in reinserting the balls with a scalpel, due to strained axes
[16:21:53] <XXCoder1> and sometimes lightly slam bearing block on hand to loosen metall stuff out
[16:22:05] <XXCoder1> again, in box to prevent ball loss lol
[16:22:34] <kfoltman> but never actually opened a bearing block
[16:22:47] <XXCoder1> I didnt either
[16:22:51] <Loetmichel> i cleaned all of my sbr bearing blocks in a bowl of gasoline
[16:22:58] <ChuangTzu> ball loss sucks
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[16:23:09] <Loetmichel> and then reinsert the rails and press new grease in
[16:23:15] <Loetmichel> pressed
[16:23:20] <XXCoder1> loet nice idea. probably will do so to get rid of trace oil to replace with lathium grease
[16:23:47] <XXCoder1> how did you know when it was dried enough so theres no gas left inside?
[16:24:30] <XXCoder1> and did you clean rails with gasoline too?
[16:25:47] <kfoltman> not much gunk on rails though?
[16:26:07] <XXCoder1> it has oil and oil isnt compitable with lathium grease I plan to use
[16:26:13] <somenewguy> diesel works better than gasoline
[16:26:13] <XXCoder1> so probably has to clean first
[16:26:38] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: oh by the way: SBR12, RM1605, 800W - no red light there?
[16:27:01] <XXCoder1> loet 12 mm sbr? isnt that too thin for such a big machine?
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[16:27:18] <kfoltman> 3Nm steppers (but running at a fraction of max current)
[16:27:46] <kfoltman> XXCoder1: my machine is 20x20cm, so probably not
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[16:29:12] * Jymmm read that as 20x20mm =)
[16:29:27] <kfoltman> Jymmm: no, it's not Proxxon MF70 ;)
[16:29:28] <XXCoder2> gonna love my wifi dongle
[16:29:39] <XXCoder2> Loetmichel: did you answer my question? lol
[16:29:59] <kfoltman> XXCoder2: what sbrs do you have, and for what machine size?
[16:30:19] <XXCoder2> sbr 20, 16, 12, for X Y Z. sizes is 600mm for xy and 200mm for z
[16:30:42] <kfoltman> sounds better
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[16:31:06] <XXCoder2> sounds like overkill but hey I had pretty good deal on it.
[16:31:26] <kfoltman> by the way, those open bearings - looks like they cut them with angle grinders, sometimes sloppily, so the ball races are JUST at the edge of the cuts
[16:31:46] <kfoltman> and then the balls tend to fall out
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[16:32:12] <kfoltman> I have one or two pieces that do that
[16:33:02] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/gMRih
[16:33:03] <zeeshan> woohoo
[16:33:13] <zeeshan> my huge shipment of stuff has arrived
[16:33:14] <zeeshan> :D
[16:33:34] <XXCoder2> lots tools
[16:33:45] <XXCoder2> why that many dials?
[16:33:57] <XXCoder2> I do need to buy one evenually lol
[16:33:58] <zeeshan> you can never have too many dial indicators
[16:34:02] <zeeshan> =D
[16:34:15] <kfoltman> zeeshan: OMG
[16:34:49] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: let me know when you find a box of old laser micrometers :)
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[16:36:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:36:10] <zeeshan> what are laser micrometers
[16:36:23] <XXCoder2> hey ich
[16:36:27] <zeeshan> http://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Laser-Scan-Micrometers-C1068.aspx
[16:36:28] <zeeshan> those?
[16:36:37] <kfoltman> the top pic is taps taps and taps?
[16:36:51] <zeeshan> yes mostly taps
[16:36:55] <zeeshan> the big blue boxes are end mills
[16:37:05] <zeeshan> i ordered these taps cause theyre the special kind
[16:37:08] <zeeshan> they're 'forming taps'
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[16:37:15] <ChuangTzu> oldschool
[16:37:17] <zeeshan> so they form taps instead of cut taps
[16:37:21] <kfoltman> ???
[16:37:24] <zeeshan> mainly bought em for tapping in aluminum
[16:37:29] <zeeshan> cause the thread is much stronger
[16:37:50] <kfoltman> what's the difference between forming and cutting? (sorry, not a native speaker or a machinist)
[16:37:56] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: yeah
[16:38:05] <ChuangTzu> pushing the material out of the way vs. removing it
[16:38:05] <zeeshan> kfoltman: one makes a chip
[16:38:10] <zeeshan> the other deforms the material
[16:38:45] <XXCoder2> so new hole would have dense walls
[16:38:46] <kfoltman> ok, so it's like a difference between squeezing and eating thread with a spoon?
[16:38:48] <XXCoder2> I guess?
[16:40:00] <zeeshan> well when you're cutting threads
[16:40:13] <zeeshan> usually you'll have residual tensile stresses
[16:40:20] <zeeshan> which act to make the thread weaker..
[16:40:32] <kfoltman> ok, I think I got it :)
[16:40:39] <zeeshan> if you form a thread, since you're "pushing it and deforming it" you cause compressive stresses at the surface
[16:40:49] <zeeshan> which make them stronger
[16:41:02] <zeeshan> it's not a big deal for most holes in steel and stuff,
[16:41:10] <zeeshan> but in aluminum it can make a big difference
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[16:45:03] <XXCoder2> cool
[16:45:36] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: what's the amount of vibrations from that spindle? better or worse than average dremel?
[16:47:51] <IchGuckLive> dremel is realy bad use PROXXON IB/E
[16:48:12] <IchGuckLive> if you can get a kress use this
[16:48:13] <XXCoder2> from what I see I wouldnt use dermel at all
[16:48:40] <IchGuckLive> all my mini mashines got a proxxon inside
[16:48:51] <IchGuckLive> and they run and run
[16:48:58] <IchGuckLive> on high load
[16:49:07] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: Loetmichel was convincing me to use a wet Chinese
[16:49:21] <IchGuckLive> with a max as 12mm shape cutters
[16:49:27] <kfoltman> <kfoltman> guys, any opinions re: using proxxon ib/e for a spindle for PCB?
[16:49:31] <kfoltman> an hour ago :)
[16:49:44] <IchGuckLive> the 8oow spindels are realy good
[16:49:54] <kfoltman> XXCoder2: dremel is what I was testing this stuff with
[16:50:24] <IchGuckLive> for pcb only you can use whatever you want
[16:50:31] <kfoltman> and my main concerns at this point is 1) maintenance (but that's not a problem), 2) if it's suitable for poorly aligned 18mm plywood construction machine
[16:50:51] <IchGuckLive> the tool is the goal not the spindel on this as long as it can retch 20k rpm
[16:50:53] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: not 'PCB only', no - but PCB is going to be one of the major uses
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[16:51:09] <somenewguy> IchGuckLive: I am about to get a 'second' spindle for my machine that will be a proxxon
[16:51:26] <somenewguy> do you have digiatl speed control, or do you fiddle the knob between runs?
[16:51:28] <zeeshan> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=29_88&products_id=403
[16:51:30] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: maybe some wood (to make improved parts for the machine :D) and plastic (for slots/holes in enclosures)
[16:51:34] <zeeshan> how many amps are these rated for ?
[16:51:36] <zeeshan> 15?
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[16:52:03] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: i steppt out of pcb milling as ther are so many pcb real plate makers that gets you a drilled and cotad prototype for less then 20USD in 5Days
[16:52:10] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: I would probably be quite content with proxxon for now, and water-cooled 800W thingy as an upgrade later (when I get alignment issues etc. sorted)
[16:52:23] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: are you in Shenzhen? ;-)
[16:52:59] <IchGuckLive> no in germany 20Eur for 80x80 double sided is a real good price
[16:53:09] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: ??? where? :D
[16:53:21] <kfoltman> silkscreen? soldermask?
[16:53:50] <kfoltman> I use seeed or dirtypcbs normally, but wouldn't mind an alternative if it had quicker turnaround
[16:53:55] <IchGuckLive> drilled solderd and coaded
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[16:54:38] <ChuangTzu> we still mill tons of pcbs
[16:54:41] <ChuangTzu> and it sucks
[16:56:42] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: where??????
[16:57:27] <kfoltman> I can only find 10x10cm for 46+shipping
[16:58:13] <IchGuckLive> are you in germany
[16:58:18] <kfoltman> no, Ireland
[16:58:28] <IchGuckLive> they only deliver in germany
[16:58:47] <IchGuckLive> its a internal microcontroller people group
[16:59:10] <kfoltman> something between a hackerspace and ccc
[16:59:29] <IchGuckLive> no people like michel and i
[16:59:47] <IchGuckLive> people that make elecroics for special thinks
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[17:00:19] <kfoltman> so, anyway, you reckon IB/E would be a good enough solution for a few months for light work?
[17:00:29] <ReadError> china kfoltman
[17:00:44] <ReadError> how much did you need and how fast?
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[17:00:59] <ReadError> goldphoenix is pretty quick
[17:01:17] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: yes
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[17:03:30] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: http://foengarage.de/pcb.jpg
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[17:04:06] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/cnc4.jpg this nmashine is only for PCB its below 300 Euros in total and go 165x165x50mm
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[17:05:43] <kfoltman> IchGuckLive: not 0.5mm TQFP, but still extremely useful for me
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[17:06:53] <IchGuckLive> kfoltman: i did a quick grap on TQFP here let me make a image
[17:09:22] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: i have not registered ANY vibration
[17:10:00] <Loetmichel> the spindles are bnalanced
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[17:11:00] <XXCoder1> cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EnlNX7NKC0Y
[17:11:17] <ReadError> not huge fan of milled PCB
[17:11:28] <ReadError> small qfn packages and no mask
[17:11:30] <ReadError> nightmare
[17:11:38] <ReadError> doable but not fun
[17:12:24] <XXCoder1> sand garden cnc https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ge4H4Uw630o
[17:13:41] <Loetmichel> ReadError: w3imp ;-)
[17:14:05] -!- XXCoder2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[17:14:18] <Loetmichel> ReadError: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3135
[17:14:26] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3132
[17:14:31] <ReadError> http://www.dailygusta.com/Phone/i-Cz4tW6n/0/X2/CA_02051410141439-X2.jpg
[17:14:39] <Loetmichel> ... andthat was .6mm pitch
[17:15:29] <Loetmichel> is that an accelerometer chip?
[17:15:44] <ReadError> either way, getting pcbs with 6mi spacing is cheap enough
[17:15:44] <ReadError> rather wait
[17:15:55] <ReadError> thats a 1s lipo management chip
[17:15:59] <Loetmichel> ah
[17:16:24] <Loetmichel> but same package as this? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=10683
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[17:16:41] <ReadError> much smaller
[17:16:58] <Loetmichel> the dead bug one!
[17:17:33] <ReadError> http://www.ti.com/product/bq24075?DCMP=PPC_Google_TI&k_clickid=0888e5a7-ffb4-2e88-8ae4-0000159acd24
[17:17:58] <ReadError> http://www.dailygusta.com/Phone/i-WhfZKbT/0/X2/CA_02241410531241-X2.jpg
[17:19:19] <Loetmichel> seems to be about the same
[17:20:15] <Loetmichel> the qfn is a bit tedoius because you cant solder it with an Iron unless you made the footprint so that the contacts tick out under the case
[17:21:02] <ReadError> this is .5mm spacing
[17:21:10] <ReadError> yea its easy w/ a soldermask
[17:21:21] <ReadError> but with tiny milled traces, not fun
[17:21:26] <ReadError> they lift easy drag soldering
[17:21:40] <Loetmichel> the repair in my pic had been done with two square ceramic resistors "glued" to the bottom of the PCB by heat conductiong compound and heating them up to spdering temperature
[17:22:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: BTW, I'm open to the idea of retrofitting what I have. But laser cartidges that would "bolt up" are obscene in cost, even "used". =)
[17:22:25] <ReadError> http://www.dailygusta.com/Phone/i-n9rxc4j/0/X2/CA_03071407445811-X2.jpg
[17:22:28] <ReadError> thats the finished board
[17:22:42] <Jymmm> ReadError: whats that?
[17:22:49] <Loetmichel> and you can see in the pic why the acc didnt work (look for the still golden pads on the chip)
[17:22:54] <ReadError> UHF receiver
[17:23:04] <Jymmm> ReadError: For?
[17:23:11] <ReadError> long range RC
[17:23:17] <ReadError> FPV flight
[17:23:31] <Jymmm> ReadError: Is there a Tx too?
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[17:23:58] <ReadError> http://www.dailygusta.com/Quads/i-vZH4Sfj/0/X2/CA_05311406074287-X2.jpg
[17:24:03] <ReadError> just finished that yesterday
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[17:24:06] <Loetmichel> ReadError: for steering or for video tx?
[17:24:14] <Jymmm> ReadError: RF Wattage?
[17:24:24] <ReadError> thats 1watt
[17:24:32] <Jymmm> ReadError: Freq?
[17:24:33] <ReadError> Loetmichel, control
[17:24:41] <ReadError> Jymmm, 433
[17:24:47] <ReadError> but can go up to 465mhz
[17:24:48] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[17:24:54] <Loetmichel> somehow i thought you were in germany
[17:25:11] <Jymmm> ReadError: Any reason you made instead of buy modules?
[17:25:26] <ReadError> Jymmm, fun, and I cant get what I want off the shelf
[17:25:32] <Loetmichel> ... where anyting other than 35 MHZ or 2.4 ghz readily sold transmitters are forbidden for model piloting?
[17:25:51] <ReadError> Loetmichel, plenty of germans are using 433
[17:26:01] <ReadError> not sure the legal behind it
[17:26:13] <Jymmm> ReadError: size constraint being the major factor?
[17:26:15] <Loetmichel> ans o a re plenty of germany in violation of regulation if they do it outside ;-)
[17:26:38] <Loetmichel> ... and so are...
[17:26:42] <ReadError> Jymmm, for the RX, I wanted 36x36mm
[17:26:59] <ReadError> since many of the flight controllers are that size
[17:27:02] <ReadError> I make a tower
[17:27:40] <Jymmm> ReadError: Why did you use an F-Connector? lol
[17:27:46] <ReadError> thats a BNC
[17:27:54] <Loetmichel> i will soon upgrade my old TX to 2g4.
[17:27:55] <ReadError> F connector lol no way jose
[17:28:08] <Jymmm> Oh, heh, I saw the threads, didn't realize it was bulk head mount =)
[17:28:09] <Loetmichel> ... but not b efore i have bought a decent 5g8 vide downlink
[17:28:11] <ReadError> well its a panel mount BNC
[17:28:21] <ReadError> Loetmichel, http://www.dailygusta.com/Quads/i-hcjgRVv/0/X2/CA_05261413471348-X2.jpg
[17:28:27] <ReadError> just finished that last week ;)
[17:28:54] <Loetmichel> hmm... is that rigid enough at the outriggers?
[17:29:00] <ReadError> 5mm CF
[17:29:02] <ReadError> short arms
[17:29:04] <Loetmichel> ouch
[17:29:09] <ReadError> plenty rigid
[17:29:12] <Loetmichel> that should be plenty
[17:29:19] <Loetmichel> looked more like 1mm ;-)
[17:29:36] <ReadError> http://www.dailygusta.com/Quads/i-NQbVfQt/0/X2/CA_05241415025877-X2.jpg
[17:29:42] <Jymmm> ReadError: How much was the cost for the pair?
[17:29:58] <ReadError> you can see here how everything is braced against another part
[17:29:58] <Loetmichel> ReadError: btw: did you were in ostheim this weekend?
[17:30:10] <ReadError> Loetmichel, nah, never heard of that
[17:30:24] <ReadError> Jymmm, hmmm not sure to be honest
[17:30:36] <ReadError> probably around 50
[17:30:42] <ReadError> just shooting from the hip on that #
[17:30:55] <Loetmichel> http://kopter-in-ostheim.de/event/
[17:31:06] <ReadError> Loetmichel, oh im in USA :)
[17:31:11] <Loetmichel> ah, sorry
[17:31:11] <Jymmm> ah, ouch,WAY more than I could consider for a project I had in mind.
[17:31:16] <Loetmichel> i thought you were in germany
[17:31:26] <ReadError> Jymmm, what are you trying to do?
[17:31:26] <Loetmichel> as i said earlier ;-)
[17:31:37] <ReadError> serial link?
[17:32:25] <Jymmm> ReadError: I need UHF-FM Rx modules that can accept digital signalling.
[17:32:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: what range?
[17:32:53] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: range?
[17:32:59] <Loetmichel> looks like a job for RFM-12?
[17:33:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: receiver
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[17:33:14] <Loetmichel> tx range i meant
[17:33:25] <Loetmichel> over what distance you want to send serial signals?
[17:33:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I don't need Tx (at this point).
[17:36:56] <ReadError> if you where doing serial data, HM-TRP is a good option
[17:42:04] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Is it STRICTLY digital? Or can I tap into the Rx prior to the digital side ?
[17:42:16] <Jymmm> IF tap
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[17:43:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I need to do some tone decoding as well
[17:43:43] <ReadError> Jymmm, GNU Radio ?
[17:43:54] <ReadError> 10$ RTL dongle
[17:44:00] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the RFM12 are strictly digiral
[17:44:00] <Jymmm> ReadError: sub-audio, ctcss
[17:44:03] <Loetmichel> digital
[17:44:10] <Loetmichel> and bidirectional
[17:44:12] <ReadError> Jymmm, pretty certain you can do that
[17:44:22] <Loetmichel> (transceivers)
[17:44:27] <Jymmm> ReadError: with that module?
[17:44:32] <ReadError> Jymmm, its a USB dongle
[17:44:37] <ReadError> not sure how portable it needs to be
[17:45:04] <Jymmm> ReadError: No, no, not SDR, I mean this type of module... http://www.ebay.com/itm/RFM69CW-Wireless-Transceiver-433Mhz-New-HopeRF-with-RFM12B-compatible-Footprint-/181249440892?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a334efc7c
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[17:46:58] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Are the feqs on those changable?
[17:47:02] <Jymmm> freqs
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[17:49:29] <Loetmichel> IIRC yes, a bit
[17:49:32] <Loetmichel> a few channels
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[18:11:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ReadError those modules would be perfect in the US as they re 433MHz which is in the ham bands here, not ISM/unlcensed
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[18:20:16] <Deejay> re-namd
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[18:28:07] <Loetmichel> hmmm. i just send a fellow reprapper this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkU_5Vk4Z4&feature=youtu.be ... is that understandable for "that is what should happen on your stepper if the croco clips have 3 to 5 V power" (assuming that blue and red is the one coil and white and yxellow the other)
[18:30:27] <Connor>
[18:31:56] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: what is the purpose you are tring to convey?
[18:32:03] <Jymmm> or intent I mean
[18:32:21] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: trying to verify if his cabling/stepper are OK
[18:32:33] <Loetmichel> i.e if he has found the right pairs of wires
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[18:33:14] <Jymmm> If he ohms out the "pairs", then I think he can just swap em if they dont' work
[18:33:30] <Jymmm> jthornton: write this up a ways back n the wiki
[18:34:12] <Loetmichel> he says he has ohmed them put.
[18:34:14] <Loetmichel> out
[18:34:15] <Jymmm> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?StepMotorWireIdentification
[18:35:25] <Loetmichel> but the stepper does some strange things on the drivers: 4 steps forward, two steps back. and at a certain high speed it runs normal in ONE direction, and not the oter, also not at any other speed
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: have him read that link
[18:36:07] <Loetmichel> je doenst speak english
[18:36:11] <Loetmichel> doesent
[18:36:14] <Loetmichel> he
[18:36:16] <Loetmichel> grrr
[18:36:18] <Jymmm> klinon?
[18:36:22] <Jymmm> kklingon?
[18:36:27] <Loetmichel> serbian iirc
[18:36:36] <Loetmichel> and german surprisingly
[18:39:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=sr&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.linuxcnc.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwiki.pl%3FStepMotorWireIdentification
[18:39:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: german http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=de&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.linuxcnc.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwiki.pl%3FStepMotorWireIdentification&sandbox=1
[18:42:04] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: @ german: *shudder*
[18:42:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: then YOU translate it for him =)
[18:43:04] <Loetmichel> he already has indetified the two coils (he says so anyways)
[18:43:43] <Loetmichel> the testing with an externeal 5V supply is just to verify he hasnt done something bad to the motor oder made some bed splder joints
[18:43:58] <Loetmichel> bad
[18:43:58] <Jymmm> and the phases too?
[18:44:00] <Loetmichel> solder
[18:44:15] <Loetmichel> ahem?
[18:44:21] <Loetmichel> phases= coils?
[18:44:32] <Loetmichel> or did you mean: the right direction?
[18:44:36] <Jymmm> Read the link yourself =)
[18:45:16] <Loetmichel> its a 4 wire motor
[18:45:30] <Loetmichel> no need to idetify the connected phases
[18:46:01] <XXCoder1> LOL! http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_921_27-mobile-game-updates-that-would-drive-you-insane/
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[19:31:16] <zeeshan> mobile games drive me insane as is
[19:31:16] <zeeshan> =[
[19:31:48] <XXCoder1> lol
[19:35:00] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/9oSrIfk.jpg
[19:35:04] <zeeshan> i need to figure out how the hell to organize these
[19:35:22] <zeeshan> ideally id like them in a toolbox drawer
[19:35:27] <zeeshan> but i dont have any space
[19:37:04] <archivist> without infinite space you always have a problem with storage
[19:37:21] <zeeshan> i hate those stands with the holes in wood
[19:37:32] <zeeshan> i really need a drawer
[19:37:55] <zeeshan> http://i.imgur.com/o7Pjt2t.jpg
[19:37:59] <zeeshan> this was a freebie :D
[19:38:05] <archivist> I have some boxed sets of drills and some draws with the overflow
[19:38:09] <zeeshan> disected an audio system
[19:38:22] <zeeshan> found a 120VAC to 24VAC transformer
[19:38:24] <zeeshan> 20A!
[19:38:38] <zeeshan> archivist: pics? :D
[19:38:50] <zeeshan> i can't find any pics on google on people organizing taper drills
[19:39:02] <zeeshan> the ones i do find are in those wood things which i dont like
[19:39:03] <archivist> drills are not picworthy
[19:39:21] <archivist> a jumble
[19:40:06] <zeeshan> hehe
[19:40:39] <archivist> my over size taps and dies are also jumble stored in boxes
[19:40:44] <Loetmichel> ReadError: still there?
[19:40:50] <ReadError> ya
[19:40:54] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XZMFqzNbck <- small video of the convention ;-)
[19:41:00] <zeeshan> archivist: mine are organized in a kennedy box
[19:41:01] <zeeshan> =D
[19:43:07] <XXCoder1> zeeshan: get a metal L beam
[19:43:15] <ReadError> Loetmichel, you went?
[19:43:40] <XXCoder1> drill holes down one side, drill more holes on other part, screw that into wall
[19:44:01] <zeeshan> XXCoder1: i want them in a box :P
[19:44:09] <XXCoder1> even better is wide U beam, drill only one side to put drill bits in and bottom of u to screw to wall
[19:44:18] <zeeshan> but thats a pretty good idea
[19:44:20] <Loetmichel> yes
[19:44:22] <zeeshan> long angle iron
[19:44:25] <Loetmichel> not my video, though
[19:45:09] <XXCoder1> other option is to cnc a wood sheet. you can even include sizes print on it
[19:45:21] <XXCoder1> for place in drawer of some form
[19:46:52] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: you mean like this? -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12620 but for taps?
[19:47:10] <XXCoder1> that or on drill sides yeah
[19:47:51] <XXCoder1> side takes lot more 2d space but much lower profile
[19:49:19] <Loetmichel> (to use 3mm FR4 for the spanners was an error, thou :-)
[19:50:17] <Loetmichel> even 3mm mild steel was to weak, had to grind two real spanners to fit the box in the end ;-)
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[19:54:45] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: BTW, can you mill steel with the 800W thingy?
[19:55:04] <XXCoder1> 800w laser?
[19:55:12] <kfoltman> nooooooooo
[19:55:35] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: you can
[19:55:45] <kfoltman> (I pretty much settled for Proxxon for now, and will upgrade to water-cooled in a few months, for now it might be putting lipstick on a pig anyway)
[19:55:46] <Loetmichel> just be patient and take light cuts
[19:56:25] <kfoltman> awesome :)
[19:56:50] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11828
[19:57:06] <kfoltman> that's steel?
[19:57:44] <kfoltman> looks awesome :)
[19:58:21] <Loetmichel> the hammer head was a bit much though: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11801&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[19:58:30] <Loetmichel> had some quite hard spots ;-)
[19:59:22] <kfoltman> that doesn't look right :)
[19:59:41] <kfoltman> but the previous one, well, impressive :)
[20:00:20] <Loetmichel> the first one was simple mild steel
[20:00:31] <kfoltman> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11687 that's some interesting ballnut?
[20:00:40] <Loetmichel> the hammerhead is hardened i believe, at least at the hitting ends
[20:00:57] <XXCoder1> weird ballnut
[20:01:10] <Loetmichel> yeah, is a ebay purchase of a co-worker
[20:01:20] <Loetmichel> making that into a "scrap CNC" now
[20:01:23] <XXCoder1> I guess that tube is bll returb]
[20:01:32] <XXCoder1> ball return
[20:01:35] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[20:01:36] <Loetmichel> it is
[20:01:39] <kfoltman> my Z axis is some Korean second hand 1402 thing
[20:01:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13143
[20:01:55] <kfoltman> bought rails and the screw as a single assembly
[20:02:02] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13116
[20:02:06] <kfoltman> rails, screw, bearings and a heavy aluminium block to connect them
[20:02:18] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13083 <- underside ;-)
[20:02:31] <XXCoder1> I gonna figure how to connect my ball nuts to parts.
[20:02:42] <XXCoder1> like gantry or Z parts so on
[20:03:07] <kfoltman> nice painted/engraved labelling :)
[20:03:08] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149 <- and the PC and drivers/ PSUs are already in the base ;-)
[20:03:48] * kfoltman is seriously afraid of becoming addicted to building cnc routers ;)
[20:04:04] <XXCoder1> lol
[20:04:26] <XXCoder1> I know I will build TWO cncs minium, this current and shitty cnc, and later 8020 version
[20:04:32] <XXCoder1> dunno if will make any more later lol
[20:04:40] <kfoltman> the temptation is probably proportional to access to all sorts of manufacturing equipment :)
[20:04:47] <Loetmichel> i am at the eight or nineth now ;-)
[20:05:21] <kfoltman> the guys at the local hackerspace are still building their first laser cutter, for like, years already - sounds like XXCoder1 ;)
[20:05:34] <kfoltman> but to be fair, they built the frame out of extrusions already
[20:05:42] <XXCoder1> lol hope my cnc sdont take that long!!
[20:06:22] <Loetmichel> i confess: that fitting of the CPU inside that box was a "Press fit" ;-)
[20:07:12] * kfoltman won't even dare to admit what kind of corner-cutting he resorted to
[20:07:29] <Loetmichel> ... öess than a mm between backplane and wall
[20:07:35] <kfoltman> heh
[20:07:40] <Loetmichel> and less than a mm to the top of the cpu card also ;-)
[20:07:44] <Loetmichel> less
[20:08:07] <Loetmichel> its a industrial P4 cpu card
[20:08:18] <kfoltman> P4, ewww
[20:08:27] <kfoltman> well, it deserves a press fit :P
[20:08:55] <kfoltman> still, <1mm tolerance
[20:09:18] <kfoltman> it's probably not a huge vibration generator anyway :D
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[20:09:51] <XXCoder1> lol
[20:10:38] <Loetmichel> like this system here: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13089
[20:11:24] <Loetmichel> was a spare part from the company
[20:11:39] <Loetmichel> but my own CNC PC has not much more space...
[20:11:50] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12265
[20:11:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12247
[20:12:03] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12250
[20:12:04] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:12:32] <Loetmichel> the c2d barely fits into the 80286s pizzabox ;-)
[20:12:39] <kfoltman> is milling stuff like alu angles realistic?
[20:12:59] <kfoltman> or other angled/bent parts
[20:13:11] <archivist> if you can hold them
[20:13:27] <Loetmichel> depends
[20:13:29] <archivist> clamping is teh black art
[20:13:47] <Loetmichel> my main work is making boxes from 1,5mm sheet aluminium ;-)
[20:13:50] <kfoltman> does linuxcnc have any sort of safeguards against bumping into certain areas by stupidly-written gcode?
[20:13:56] <Loetmichel> so i angle them afterwards ;-)
[20:14:05] <kfoltman> I don't have a press brake :P
[20:14:09] <Loetmichel> me neither
[20:14:17] <Loetmichel> isnt a problem
[20:14:25] <kfoltman> in theory I could ask someone locally
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[20:14:38] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14217
[20:14:49] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14160&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[20:14:58] <kfoltman> nice
[20:14:58] <Loetmichel> really easy if you know how ;-)
[20:15:54] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13531 <- "standard" Laptop PSU enclosure
[20:16:27] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14688&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 <- looks like this on the mill
[20:16:48] <Loetmichel> the bends are just milled a slot to 0,75mm depth
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[20:16:59] <Loetmichel> after milling out the part you can bend it by hand
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[20:17:14] <renesis> heh
[20:17:27] <XXCoder1> kfoltman: run it in cncsimulator first
[20:17:35] <renesis> thats like 2.5mm steel?
[20:17:51] <Loetmichel> [22:13] <Loetmichel> my main work is making boxes from 1,5mm sheet aluminium ;-)
[20:17:55] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: doesn't that make it more brittle?
[20:18:03] <archivist> sometimes you have to provide support for the part so you can mill it
[20:18:07] <Loetmichel> not if you be careful where you bend
[20:18:10] <renesis> so you score it like half way with a 90 degree cut?
[20:18:26] <Loetmichel> no, flat cut 2mm wide for 1,5mm metal
[20:18:32] <archivist> eg http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=merlin+worm
[20:18:42] <renesis> oh cool yeah that prob wont snap
[20:18:55] <renesis> what did you use to hold it while bending?
[20:19:02] <Loetmichel> hands?
[20:19:06] <renesis> cool
[20:19:14] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: You know of any other RF Rx modules of that quality/pricing, but maybe analog?
[20:19:17] <Loetmichel> the small flaps i hold in the vice
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[20:19:26] <Loetmichel> Jymmm. not that i know of
[20:19:33] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: ok, thanks =)
[20:19:35] <kfoltman> archivist: too much stuff going on in those pics :O
[20:19:36] <Loetmichel> sorry
[20:19:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: no worries =)
[20:20:08] <Loetmichel> renesis: i even made some englosures for a nas: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14184
[20:20:13] <archivist> kfoltman, there is a brass support behind the worm being cut
[20:20:26] <Loetmichel> that was a bit tedious... 900 drills in the front, 900 drills in the back ,)
[20:20:34] <XXCoder1> cnc drilling?
[20:20:39] <Loetmichel> milldrilling
[20:20:55] <renesis> loetmichel: that is really sexy
[20:21:19] <XXCoder1> good now powder coat it lol
[20:21:33] <kfoltman> archivist: attached with machine screws?
[20:21:35] <Loetmichel> of course the oines that were sold ARE powder coated
[20:21:42] <archivist> kfoltman, yes
[20:21:55] <kfoltman> archivist: black art indeed
[20:22:21] <Loetmichel> XXCoder1: milldrilling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKHPsJtZlc
[20:22:22] <archivist> kfoltman, I cut into it as it was just a support
[20:22:48] <XXCoder1> good, automatic heh
[20:23:03] <Loetmichel> ...and from the office
[20:23:50] <Loetmichel> i like the combination vnc and vlc :-)
[20:23:55] <Loetmichel> ... and a webcam
[20:24:07] <XXCoder1> I bet
[20:25:18] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u_ChO1AKYY <- more remote stuff. careful, second part is loud
[20:25:20] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: it *is* possible to mill a 100mm hole this way? (of course, I mean as a circular slot)
[20:25:34] <Loetmichel> sure
[20:25:37] <Loetmichel> why not?
[20:25:45] <renesis> a circular slot is a hole?
[20:25:54] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: I'm just sanity checking before buying the proxxon ;)
[20:26:15] <Loetmichel> renesis: i think he means "without rubbung out the inner part"
[20:26:21] <kfoltman> yes
[20:26:23] <Loetmichel> rubbing
[20:26:27] <ChuangTzu> bung
[20:26:30] <ChuangTzu> :D
[20:26:51] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: as in, I want to mill improved parts, and that includes holes of diameter of 5mm and more, and proxxon only goes up to 1/8" shank
[20:27:01] <Loetmichel> so?
[20:27:19] <kfoltman> yeah, I see no reason why it wouldn't work :)
[20:27:23] <kfoltman> it's just a slot
[20:27:38] <renesis> heh, for PCB i dont drill anything over like .063, i just route circles
[20:27:53] <Loetmichel> kfoltman: careful, LOUD... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEd4LCJ3uWk
[20:29:00] <kfoltman> renesis: well, sounds better than switching tools 10 times per PCB just because there's a mixture of packages ;)
[20:29:08] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: the sound is horrendous :D
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[20:29:25] <Loetmichel> long aluminium extrusion. resonance
[20:29:45] <XXCoder1> wonder if you could add something to damp it
[20:29:47] <Loetmichel> but: 2mm mill bit: 15mm hole ;-)
[20:30:02] <XXCoder1> olf vw bugs has this black rubber-like thing that converts vibration to heat
[20:30:34] <XXCoder1> why not just slap some on work peice heh
[20:30:36] <toastyde1th> sandbags on the ends of the extrusion
[20:30:57] <Loetmichel> bitumen cardboard?
[20:30:59] <ChuangTzu> sorbethane
[20:31:29] <renesis> kfoltman: i dont have an auto changer, so yeah mostly i am trying to avoid tool changes
[20:31:52] <Loetmichel> renesis: thats my usual mode of operation also
[20:31:54] <kfoltman> I suspect many 'pro' PCB houses do the same
[20:32:04] <Loetmichel> use a 0,6mm mill bit to make ALL drills ;-)
[20:32:18] <Loetmichel> no, pro pcb houses have autochangers
[20:32:22] <XXCoder1> nah 0.01 mm one ;)
[20:32:30] <renesis> they prob drill everything up to shank size
[20:32:35] <XXCoder1> dont even know if such exosts lol
[20:32:42] <Loetmichel> they restrict you toi tools they have in the changer
[20:32:45] <renesis> larger drills are fairly low risk, they dont just break
[20:33:05] <renesis> i drill .012" on my taig
[20:33:07] <Loetmichel> renesis: i have tc drill bits up to 6mm with 1/8" shank
[20:33:08] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:33:25] <renesis> like hundreds of drills into FR4, i usually break the bits changing them, not during cycles
[20:33:25] <Loetmichel> and down to 0,3mm
[20:33:46] <Loetmichel> smaller than that will likk the bit instantly if you have the slightes runput in the spindle
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[20:34:07] <Loetmichel> s/likk/break
[20:34:08] <kfoltman> Loetmichel: up to 6mm? hmmm...
[20:34:26] <ChuangTzu> just route the holes
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[20:36:37] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry: 5mm drill bits: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14910
[20:36:51] <Loetmichel> bu i can order 6mm also
[20:36:57] <zeeshan> cute
[20:36:58] <zeeshan> :D
[20:37:23] <Loetmichel> and they are fully tungsten carbide
[20:37:34] <zeeshan> how much?
[20:37:49] <Loetmichel> 17 eur a piece if i remember correctly
[20:37:58] <zeeshan> expensive!
[20:38:57] <Loetmichel> http://www.sorotec.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p334_hm-bohrer--6-50mm.html <- ah, even 6.5mm
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[20:39:07] <Loetmichel> and only 8.90 eur
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[20:51:43] <kfoltman> what kind of endmills will I need for PCBs? 4-flute?
[21:04:28] <Tom_itx> PCB endmills
[21:06:17] <SpeedEvil> I've idly wondered about recutting 'masonry' carbide bits.
[21:06:28] <SpeedEvil> I assume there is a really good reason this won't work.
[21:06:41] <SpeedEvil> (I know the hole may not be very straight due to teh reduced diameter shank)
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[21:19:16] <Deejay> gn8
[21:19:40] <CaptHindsight> http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/30/new-materials-let-you-bake-your-own-robot/ so my cookie dough robot wasn't so crazy after all
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[21:20:36] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ZKV9oPsoI
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[21:48:24] <kfoltman> ok, so, this is now in my shopping cart: proxxon IB/E, some 1-flute bit for plastic, some 0.8mm spiral bit to do initial tests on a PCB, and a step clamping set
[21:48:43] <kfoltman> I already have some end mill set (1mm-3mm carbide I think)
[21:49:15] <kfoltman> anything else that I should definitely get or I'll regret it until Alzheimer's eats all my memory?
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[22:22:48] <XXCoder1> CaptHindsight: lol
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