#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-05-28

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[00:31:18] <XXCoder> woot
[00:31:23] <XXCoder> I got screwed
[00:31:26] <XXCoder> ballscrewed
[00:31:28] <XXCoder> lol
[00:31:32] <XXCoder> I got package
[00:32:29] <zeeshan> yayyyyy
[00:32:40] <XXCoder> gonna open it soonish
[00:32:50] <XXCoder> bit tired so relaxing till dinner
[00:33:02] <zeeshan> yea i came home
[00:33:03] <zeeshan> and passed right out
[00:33:07] <zeeshan> i guess its the heat
[00:33:21] <XXCoder> not heat here, just standing whole day at work lol
[00:33:27] <XXCoder> finishing results from cnc
[00:33:43] <zeeshan> XXCoder: where do you work again?
[00:33:52] <XXCoder> it was slow because giant cnc router was down
[00:34:11] <XXCoder> training job at machinist shop. big one that supplies parts to boeing
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[02:28:12] <scooty_puff> where is a good place to buy stepper drivers? like ones that can handle at least 2 amps
[02:28:29] <zeeshan> probotix
[02:28:35] <zeeshan> has some for cheap for that much amperage
[02:29:07] <zeeshan> http://probotix.com/stepper_motor_drivers/SideStep/
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[02:30:44] <scooty_puff> is probotix legit? im about to spend $250 with them
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[02:33:47] <XXCoder> just opened ballscrew box
[02:34:00] <XXCoder> they look to be much better quality than sbr rails
[02:34:09] <XXCoder> very well done
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[02:46:22] <CaptHindsight> scooty_puff: http://leadshineusa.com/
[02:47:22] <XXCoder> leadshine uhh heh was that stuble hint of poisonous lead and the movie the shining? ;)
[02:47:31] <scooty_puff> thanks but youre like 10 minutes too late
[02:49:31] <somenewguy> could someone post a bug for me in the proper place? I can't figure out SF site and really don't have the time right now (work) but i don't want it to get forgotten
[02:50:33] <somenewguy> summed up in one line, in axis in linuxcnc 2.5.4 on 10.04, if you jog A axis, press shift while jogging, release a axis jog key, and then release shift, the A axis will continue to jog
[02:51:02] <CaptHindsight> sounds like a latching jog feature :)
[02:51:10] <XXCoder> even if it hits limit button?
[02:51:30] <somenewguy> my a axis is wrapped, so there should be no limit if i read the manuals correctly
[02:51:43] <somenewguy> no soft limits applied, no limit switches eihter
[02:55:25] <zeeshan> XXCoder: im glad you like em!
[02:55:29] <zeeshan> btw update for you guys
[02:55:38] <zeeshan> cnc4pc aka arturo is excellent.
[02:55:49] <zeeshan> he's taking back the burnt supply and the working one
[02:55:57] <zeeshan> and giving me a toriodal in exchange.
[02:56:04] <CaptHindsight> nice
[02:56:14] <zeeshan> ps. don't run smps supply
[02:56:19] <zeeshan> without a snubber circuit!
[02:56:24] <zeeshan> or they will blow up from back emf
[02:56:44] <CaptHindsight> what were you supplying with it?
[02:56:49] <somenewguy> mines fine
[02:56:55] <zeeshan> 110VAC
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[02:56:57] <somenewguy> but its only driving nema 23s lol
[02:57:02] <zeeshan> output was 72VDC 8A
[02:57:08] <zeeshan> running 1200oz-in steppers
[02:57:11] <zeeshan> nema23
[02:57:11] <zeeshan> wer
[02:57:15] <zeeshan> er, nema34
[02:57:35] <zeeshan> it blew up at the end of a jog
[02:57:38] <zeeshan> at 150 ipm
[02:57:47] <somenewguy> thats a sprint in my book
[02:58:00] <zeeshan> arturo specifically says to run the snubber circuit
[02:58:06] <zeeshan> while automation technologies doesnt
[02:58:15] <zeeshan> it just seems like automation technologies is a reseller
[02:58:29] <zeeshan> and doesn't know much about the products it sells when it comes to everything but steppers and stepper drivers
[02:58:52] <somenewguy> I am homebrewing a small unregulated supply for my machine, what do you think about a mov to protect from spikes?
[02:58:54] <Connor> cnc4pc.com
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[02:58:57] <CaptHindsight> he's a ME (PhD) not an EE
[02:58:58] <Connor> is arturo
[02:59:04] <zeeshan> Connor: yes
[02:59:15] <zeeshan> i bought the supplies from automation technologies
[02:59:18] <zeeshan> but im returning them back to cnc4pc
[02:59:27] <Connor> what happened ?
[02:59:30] <zeeshan> since arturo supplies automation technologies with the power supplies
[02:59:38] <zeeshan> Connor: one of my smps shot plasma out the fan
[02:59:38] <zeeshan> lol
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[03:00:37] <Connor> not cool
[03:00:41] <zeeshan> yea
[03:00:47] <zeeshan> luckily the plasma didnt burn my motherboard
[03:00:52] <zeeshan> cause the mobo took the blunt of the plasma
[03:01:13] <Connor> youch.
[03:02:42] amnesic is now known as amnesic_away
[03:02:59] <zeeshan> the only thing im not looking forward to
[03:03:06] <zeeshan> is drilling 4 holes in the enclosure while it's assembled
[03:03:24] <zeeshan> im thinking i can put 4-5 layers of duct tape at the location where the hole will be made
[03:03:28] <zeeshan> and take it easy
[03:03:33] <zeeshan> and keep a shop vac on the back side of the hole
[03:03:53] <Connor> all i can say is.. Vacuum.. and and use a punch to dimple the enclosure before drilling.
[03:04:05] <zeeshan> actually
[03:04:13] <zeeshan> you just gave me an excellent idea
[03:04:15] <zeeshan> i can use greenlee punches
[03:04:19] <zeeshan> and that way i wont have chips
[03:04:26] <zeeshan> its only a 1/4" hole
[03:05:11] <XXCoder> zeeshan: nice!
[03:05:17] <Connor> I have a set of chassis bunches.. but that's for bigger holes.. and the require a pilot hole.
[03:05:59] <XXCoder> sigh. still cant find good place to buy couplers.
[03:06:13] <Connor> XXCoder: What kind are you looking for ?
[03:06:37] <XXCoder> nema 23 to I think 1/2 inch dia screws
[03:06:50] <Connor> 1/2" ??
[03:06:57] <Connor> Dang.. it not turned down?
[03:07:08] <XXCoder> turned down?
[03:07:27] <Connor> the end of the screw. 1/2" awful big..
[03:07:35] <XXCoder> oh it is thick screw
[03:07:41] <Connor> what kind ?
[03:07:48] <XXCoder> ballscrews
[03:08:00] <Connor> from where?
[03:08:18] <XXCoder> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-ballscrews-RM1605-300-600-600mm-3-nuts-BK-BF12-/250451252435?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item3a500ed4d3
[03:08:42] <Connor> okay, those should be turned down..
[03:08:49] <Connor> you better check then end and make sure..
[03:08:56] <zeeshan> XXCoder: are you sure its 1/2"?
[03:09:02] <zeeshan> the ball screw end for a 1605 should be 10mm
[03:09:10] <XXCoder> hmm
[03:09:23] <Connor> or 3/8"
[03:09:28] <XXCoder> 0.39 in
[03:09:32] <XXCoder> mihht be it
[03:09:58] <XXCoder> it says 16 mm
[03:10:12] <XXCoder> 0.629 in appro
[03:10:35] <Connor> WHAT? The ballscrew is 16mm...
[03:10:44] <Connor> it should be turned down...
[03:10:59] <XXCoder> I still dont know what turned down is
[03:11:10] <Connor> the SMOOTH part of the ballscrew..
[03:11:21] <Connor> the part that's NOT screw..
[03:11:23] <CaptHindsight> are the ballscrew ends even machined?
[03:11:26] <Connor> I.E the ends.
[03:11:36] <XXCoder> yeah it seems to be 16 mm at ends
[03:11:56] <Connor> Is that the kit you got ?
[03:11:59] <XXCoder> yep
[03:12:08] <Connor> do they look like the pictures ?
[03:12:14] <XXCoder> exact.
[03:13:23] <Connor> 12mm
[03:13:27] <CaptHindsight> so probably 1605 ballscrew with 12mm ends
[03:13:30] <Connor> they came with BF and BK 12mm
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[03:13:49] <XXCoder> oh! misread chart. 16mm is dia of ball screw itself
[03:13:58] <Connor> http://www.mcmaster.com/#oldham-couplings/=s5lr9b3
[03:14:00] <Connor> http://www.mcmaster.com/#oldham-couplings/=s5lr9b
[03:14:03] <Connor> use those.
[03:14:25] <Connor> need of total of 2 hubs and 1 disk per motor/ballscrew.
[03:14:40] <Connor> you can get clamping or set screw..
[03:15:07] <Connor> if they don't have them in mm.. get the closest size and drill / ream them out..
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[03:15:32] <XXCoder> makes sense. looks pretty good prices
[03:15:33] <Connor> I use Acetel discs..
[03:15:57] <Connor> and I have purchased a extra disc in case I broke one.. as they can act as a mechanical fuse.
[03:16:08] <XXCoder> slightly confused on one thing
[03:16:18] <XXCoder> one clamps on motor, one on shaft
[03:16:22] <Connor> Oh. and you and use clampping on one side and set screw on the other.
[03:16:25] <XXCoder> but they dont seem to be connected
[03:16:25] <Connor> yup.
[03:16:29] <XXCoder> ahh
[03:16:41] <XXCoder> so I have to provide framework so they stay together?
[03:16:41] <Connor> that's what the disc does.
[03:16:56] <Connor> one sec.. picture time..
[03:17:26] <XXCoder> $10.14 each (cheapest) each hub and 2 each screw. ow
[03:17:33] <XXCoder> disc is $2
[03:18:25] <zeeshan> fak that stuff
[03:18:27] <zeeshan> use solid couplings
[03:18:29] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/machine_x_y_done.JPG
[03:18:31] <zeeshan> real men use solid couplings!! :D
[03:18:39] <XXCoder> lol
[03:18:46] <Connor> zeeshan: and break the shaft on the stepper ?
[03:18:47] <zeeshan> im using a solid one
[03:18:51] <zeeshan> seems fine
[03:18:52] <zeeshan> tom is also
[03:19:02] <zeeshan> the shaft isn't gonna break
[03:19:04] <zeeshan> if its aligned right
[03:19:05] <XXCoder> I need something breakable to save motor. I will be running cnc like an idiot like I am
[03:19:13] <Valen> Connor: dude, scale your pictures ;->
[03:19:19] <Connor> oldham allow for offset
[03:19:48] <zeeshan> Connor: looking good!
[03:19:49] <Connor> and make it real easy to remove and re-install the steppers..
[03:19:57] <zeeshan> ive had mine on and off
[03:19:57] <Valen> you can get solid couplings to allow a little bit of misalignment
[03:20:00] <zeeshan> a couple times now
[03:20:06] <Valen> well kinda solid
[03:20:16] <Valen> http://www.motioncontroltips.com/2012/08/28/reli-a-flex-shaft-couplings-offers-long-life-low-kinematic-error/
[03:20:18] <zeeshan> both my stepper and ball screw are within 3 thou of each other
[03:20:19] <Valen> that kinda thing
[03:20:53] <zeeshan> Connor: you and me haave been working on our cnc conversions forever
[03:20:56] <Connor> Unless you get those in stainless which are $$$ they'll break.. at least my alumn ones did.
[03:20:58] <zeeshan> im getting sick of working on it!
[03:20:59] <zeeshan> :D
[03:21:14] <Connor> zeeshan: Mine is been done for a while.. just been upgrading it..
[03:21:20] <Connor> I.E adding the enclosure etc.
[03:21:26] <zeeshan> o
[03:21:42] <Connor> XXCoder: All I can say is.. spend the $$ on the oldham's
[03:21:52] <Connor> Is this for a homemade or a conversion ?
[03:22:05] <XXCoder> con homemade. first one, wood frame
[03:22:35] <Connor> I used Alumn Beam couplers on my Router..
[03:22:48] <Connor> oldhams would have made it easier.
[03:23:00] <zeeshan> those aluminujm beam couplers are a piec eof shit
[03:23:02] <zeeshan> they have backlash
[03:23:05] <zeeshan> a lot of it
[03:23:18] <zeeshan> like 10 thou
[03:23:24] <Connor> they shouldn't.
[03:23:28] <XXCoder> even supposely zero like this http://www.amazon.com/Series-12%C2%A1%C3%8112mm-Flexible-Coupling-Coupler/dp/B00GSLS7L4/ref=sr_1_25?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1401247383&sr=1-25&keywords=cnc+shaft+12+mm+.25+in
[03:23:29] <zeeshan> well mine did
[03:23:30] <Connor> if mounted and used correctly.
[03:23:33] <zeeshan> thats why i converted to solid
[03:23:43] <Valen> they can't have backlash
[03:23:43] <zeeshan> and the backlash is 0.0005 now
[03:23:53] <zeeshan> Valen: i believe mine were stretching
[03:23:54] <Connor> XXCoder: those are the ones I used on my router..
[03:23:55] <zeeshan> or deforming
[03:24:05] <Valen> thats different ;->
[03:24:17] <zeeshan> i think theyre meant for small steppers
[03:24:21] <XXCoder> cant find any meteric one end and imperial other end
[03:24:21] <zeeshan> like 180-200oz-in
[03:24:23] <zeeshan> not big ones
[03:24:24] <Connor> XXCoder: Had 3 of them break.. had to get replacements..
[03:24:36] <zeeshan> Connor: what size steppers?
[03:24:41] <zeeshan> were they breaking on
[03:24:45] <XXCoder> NEMA 23 here
[03:24:47] <Connor> XXCoder: You'll have to get one sized under-sized and drill it
[03:25:01] <Connor> NEMA 23, 340oz I think..
[03:25:04] <XXCoder> good thing I already plan to buy drill press
[03:25:08] <XXCoder> have to have one
[03:25:11] <XXCoder> I suck on hand drilling
[03:25:30] <Connor> Honesty.. I think I hand drill mine..
[03:25:34] <XXCoder> if I hand drill probably do 45 angle on something that should be nice and 90 angle ;)
[03:25:44] <Connor> Held them in a wood vblock..
[03:26:20] <XXCoder> well guess its 12mm - 6 mm then. easy enough to expand 6mm to 6.35 mm (1/4 in)
[03:26:20] <zeeshan> wtf
[03:26:25] <zeeshan> they were yieldingf with 340oz-in
[03:26:27] <zeeshan> lol
[03:26:36] <zeeshan> clearly theyre not designed for fatigue
[03:26:55] <zeeshan> Connor: do the oldham couplers wear?
[03:27:17] <zeeshan> drilling the coupler on a drill press
[03:27:24] <zeeshan> will mean the coupler itself will have runout
[03:27:26] <Connor> zeeshan: They can.. but, not very much.
[03:27:42] <zeeshan> cause its quite hard to get the hole concentric with the OD
[03:27:51] <Connor> zeeshan: Thats why I used a hand drill
[03:28:02] <zeeshan> still youll get 20 thou runout
[03:28:04] <zeeshan> er
[03:28:09] <zeeshan> 20 thou out of concentricity
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[03:28:22] <zeeshan> i ruined one of my timing belt pulleys like that
[03:28:22] <zeeshan> =[
[03:28:38] <zeeshan> im gonna bore it on the mill when i get the other ones in
[03:28:47] <zeeshan> since the lathe is out of service
[03:28:50] <Connor> zeeshan: They're flex couplers..
[03:29:04] <Connor> and the Oldhame's can take the miss-alignment too.
[03:29:25] <zeeshan> well the more theyre out of alignment
[03:29:29] <zeeshan> the quicker they'll wear?
[03:30:12] <XXCoder> other problemic part for me is somehow mount my nema 23. I will probably just use pipes though. where do I source those screws thats compitable with nema motors thread and such?
[03:30:29] <Connor> It'll take allot of use for the Acetel to wear..
[03:30:51] <XXCoder> oh. lol http://www.amazon.com/Coupling-Coupler-D25L30-Ceramic-Machinery/dp/B00IJ67D0W/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1401247835&sr=1-1&keywords=cnc+shaft+12+mm+.25+in
[03:30:55] <XXCoder> this is exact size
[03:31:35] <Connor> Not too sure about that one..
[03:31:58] <Connor> not sure if that is 0-backlash.. those are known as spider or love-joy..
[03:32:35] <Connor> XXCoder: bolt with through pipe not exactly good idea.. those can torque or twist.
[03:32:46] <XXCoder> http://www.amazon.com/Generic-6-35mmx12mm-Flexible-Coupling-Connector/dp/B00EQ1Y54G/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1401247945&sr=1-2&keywords=cnc+shaft+12+mm+6.35+mm
[03:32:51] <XXCoder> exact size too
[03:33:07] <Connor> give those a try..
[03:33:26] <XXCoder> yeah strightfoward enough. also buy 4 of em because I probably would break one lol
[03:33:37] <XXCoder> oh yeah
[03:34:00] <Connor> okay.. I think #10 screw
[03:34:21] <Connor> Don't remember.. Mine are through bolted.
[03:34:21] <XXCoder> how do I use the antibacklash "nut" on my ballscrews? its on side and I want parallel surface connect to it
[03:34:43] <Connor> XXCoder: How do you mean ?
[03:34:57] <XXCoder> look at kit I bought, its that thingy on screw
[03:35:05] <XXCoder> part that moves with rotation
[03:35:22] <Connor> yes.
[03:35:28] <Connor> so, you make a ballnut mount..
[03:35:34] <CaptHindsight> the first Amazon ones ^^ will flex and twist
[03:35:47] <Connor> http://www.amazon.com/Generic-6-35mmx12mm-Flexible-Coupling-Connector/dp/B00EQ1Y54G/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1401247945&sr=1-2&keywords=cnc+shaft+12+mm+6.35+mm
[03:35:54] <Connor> those are the ones if your going cheap.
[03:36:04] <XXCoder> yeah already decided on
[03:36:15] <XXCoder> I just want order all at once
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[03:36:47] <Connor> ballnut mount.. Take a block.. little taller than the ballnut, drill hole so that bull nut can go through it.. then bolt it on.
[03:36:47] <zee-Lathe> c
[03:36:50] <zee-Lathe> woohoo
[03:36:52] <CaptHindsight> https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Catalog/Group/99
[03:36:57] <zee-Lathe> power line networking sucessful
[03:37:04] <XXCoder> so i really am required to make that? aw
[03:37:23] <Connor> XXCoder: How else you going to connect it ?
[03:37:29] <XXCoder> indeed
[03:37:44] <Connor> You can make them out of wood, plastic or metal.
[03:37:50] <Connor> depending on what tools you have.
[03:37:54] <Connor> I made mine out of MDF.
[03:37:57] <XXCoder> it'll hve to be wood
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[03:38:20] <Connor> and I used cross dowl nuts..
[03:38:26] <XXCoder> ok #10 screws gonna look for that later
[03:38:27] <Connor> in the MDF.
[03:38:37] <Connor> McMaster is Cheap.
[03:38:42] <Connor> and double check that..
[03:38:50] <Connor> with your stepper.
[03:39:44] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc1.jpg
[03:39:53] <Connor> that's how I did mine.. I didn't use standoffs on it..
[03:40:03] <Connor> I mounted the steppers straight to the wood.
[03:40:20] <CaptHindsight> you want the oldham or bellows type not the lovejoy
[03:40:23] <XXCoder> probablyu way I will do
[03:40:33] <Connor> I lost a tad of travel on the Z..non on X or Y
[03:40:51] <XXCoder> as long as it has 3 or 4 in left I'm fine
[03:41:06] <XXCoder> I doubt I will need to use stock taller than 6 in
[03:41:14] <XXCoder> 6 in travel then
[03:41:28] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc7.jpg
[03:41:41] <Connor> you can see the stepper going through the wall.. :)
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[03:41:47] <XXCoder> lol yep
[03:41:52] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg
[03:41:59] <zee-Lathe> this is awesmoe
[03:42:02] <zee-Lathe> max jitter is 3411
[03:42:28] <XXCoder> so you just used gaint block of wood to hold router
[03:43:08] <Connor> 2 3/4" mdf laminated together, then I used a hole saw to drill it out.. then cut a slit.
[03:43:31] <Connor> that's a Bosh Colt.
[03:43:45] <Connor> What type of wood you using ?
[03:44:16] <Connor> Little hint when using a hole saw with MDF..
[03:44:34] <XXCoder> plywood for some parts, just wood for rest
[03:44:50] <CaptHindsight> http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0fb8/0900766b80fb8242.pdf differences in couplings
[03:44:52] <XXCoder> I really need to get a truck somehow so I can get larger wood parts from work lol
[03:45:19] <Connor> start the hole with the hole-saw.. just to mark the hole.. then.. using a forstner bit and drill 2 holes on the inside perimeter of the larger hole... on either side..
[03:45:34] <Connor> this allows the MDF chips/dust to clear out so you don't burn up the hole saw.
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[03:45:46] <XXCoder> interesting http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/attachments/gantry-router-build-logs/7405d1353177713-wobblycogs-cnc-mk1-wobblycogs-cnc-v4-gantry-connection-2.png
[03:45:48] <Connor> XXCoder: What sort of plywood ?
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[03:46:03] <XXCoder> con high quality one. expensive. good thing I got it free from trash
[03:46:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.motioncontrolonline.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageID=4151
[03:48:02] <CaptHindsight> http://www.motioncontrolonline.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageID=4144
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[03:49:17] <XXCoder> nice summary
[03:49:35] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGxfchLe-_I Lecture - 20 Shaft Couplings
[03:50:17] <XXCoder> old videos tend to have good autocaptions but not this pone
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[03:51:24] <XXCoder> Connor: any pic of how you connected to ballnut
[03:51:28] <XXCoder> wood cnc
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[03:51:51] <zeeshan> Connor: how much did that wood router cost you
[03:51:52] <zeeshan> total
[03:52:48] <Connor> Honestly.. No.. But, it's simple. A block of 3/4" wood. Hole in center large enough for ballnut to fit through (the round part) 4-6 holes for the bolts to go through, then 2 holes from the top to bolt it to the gantry
[03:53:14] <XXCoder> pretty strightforward. thanks
[03:53:43] <Connor> zeeshan: I lost track. more than it was suppose to be.. I ended up ordering 2nd set of screws because dumba$$ didn't tell me they weren't machined.
[03:53:58] <zeeshan> i want to make a cnc plasma
[03:53:59] <zeeshan> after this
[03:54:09] <Connor> $1200-1500 counting the Atom Based PC, The steppers, electronics, and E-chain
[03:54:17] <Connor> and the bosh colt router.
[03:54:24] <zeeshan> thatrs not bad at all
[03:54:44] <Connor> I'm going to rework most of it out of Alumn at some point.
[03:54:53] <XXCoder> so far mine is cheaper a bit lol but then dont have all parts yet
[03:55:17] <XXCoder> I would skip it and just stright uo buy that 2' x 3' 8020 rail kit as upgrade
[03:55:30] <Connor> I had to buy the MDF, the Cross Dowels / Barrel Nuts..
[03:55:34] <XXCoder> its not expensive $1399 something. no electric suystem though
[03:56:23] <Connor> the plexiglass, is from a old dot matrix printer enclosure..
[03:56:39] <XXCoder> got $200 off but pretty close http://www.finelineautomation.com/products/complete-2-x3-router-kit
[03:57:03] <Connor> I got so lucky on allot of the measurements on that thing, it's not even funny.
[03:57:21] <XXCoder> I probably wull go backwards on my cnc
[03:57:26] <XXCoder> Z first, Y then X
[03:57:30] <Connor> I never planned on putting the PC right next to it built in like that.. it just so happened that I had enough space on that side to do it.
[03:57:51] <Connor> I wanted it to have a footprint of 2' x 3' and fit under that shelf.
[03:57:55] <XXCoder> do Z first so after that I has known dimensions to build Y frame and so on
[03:58:04] <Connor> that in that picture.
[03:58:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS6-Tzjeths ghetto conductive trace glue gun printer
[03:59:02] <Connor> I need to source new gas springs.. ones that are designed to be stored parallel to the ground instead of 60-90 degrees.
[03:59:14] <Connor> gas leaked out.
[03:59:16] <Connor> Oh well.
[03:59:25] <Connor> back later.
[03:59:34] <XXCoder> later thanks too!
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[04:28:51] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, i didnt see any wires laid into the gamepad. now i read they use a separate conductive ink head. demo not very exciting, single layer single sided pcb aint got a lot of bragging rights
[04:30:06] <tjtr33> more interesting from 1968 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhVQ1UG6aM
[04:31:01] <tjtr33> more complete than this http://meemoo.org/iframework/
[04:31:23] <XXCoder> seriously though controllers couldnt be simplier
[04:45:35] <XXCoder> chck this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G5eo5d8F5DU
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[06:45:56] <Deejay> moin
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[08:23:44] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:27:20] <archivist_herron> moaning
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[10:06:27] <jthornton> morning
[10:15:46] <jdh> Good Morning Mr. Thornton.
[10:18:38] <jthornton> morning jdh
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[14:25:37] * JT-Shop is getting nowhere fast this morning
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[15:24:15] <CaptHindsight> !seen tjtr33
[15:24:15] <the_wench> last seen in #linuxcnc 2014-05-28 05:30:58GMT 10:53:15 ago, saying more complete than this http://meemoo.org/iframework/
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[15:52:32] <deMimsy> Am i correct in noticing that one cannot save the loaded tool inbetween instances of linuxcnc?
[15:52:51] <deMimsy> I am not referring to the parameters of a tool but rather indication of which tool is loaded
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[16:04:20] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/lzrlfcx might be useful
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[16:05:29] <jdh> it would be a fairly large assumption that nothing has happened to the machine while linuxcnc was not running.
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[16:07:07] <jthornton> the only exception to that is if you have an absolute encoder on a tool turret
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[16:16:07] <SpeedEvil> Or some sort of interlock with memory
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[16:29:43] <fogl> hello, can someone please tell me what verion of RTAI is compiled with linuxcnc
[16:30:30] <fogl> is there a RTAI version "uname -a" coomand
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[16:38:39] <CaptHindsight> fogl: the 2.6 RTAI that comes with the LiveCD?
[16:38:57] <CaptHindsight> or the 3.4.55 RTAI under test?
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[16:39:42] <IchGuckLive> hi all from a sunny day in germany ;_)
[16:39:58] <CaptHindsight> fogl: the 3.4.55 RTAI kernel howto
[16:40:10] <CaptHindsight> the 2.6 is on the Linuxcnc wiki
[16:40:31] <CaptHindsight> 3.4.55 RTAI howto https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL
[16:41:25] <CaptHindsight> 2.6 RTAI howto http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RtaiSteps
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[16:43:39] <IchGuckLive> XXCoder: ?
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[16:44:58] <IchGuckLive> realy quiet today here in the logs tomorrow is holiday in germany most take a long weekend trip
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[16:50:37] <Jymmm> There is a RTAI CONFIG (shell gui)
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[16:56:36] <Jymmm> rtai config gui http://i60.tinypic.com/2vhu6ft.jpg
[16:58:11] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: what holiday is it there? we just had one Monday in the US
[16:59:51] <IchGuckLive> its a chrisian one in germany
[17:01:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/germany/ you have lots of them, never noticed that before
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[17:04:25] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-PCI-E-Extension-Cable-1X-To-16X-Slot-Riser-Extender-Card-Flex-cable-Adapter-/371048447636 PCI-E Extension Cables only $2.79
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[17:07:35] <narogon> hi!!!
[17:07:44] <IchGuckLive> ;-)
[17:08:01] <narogon> do you know if it is possible jog more than one axis
[17:08:13] <narogon> using halui.jog
[17:08:16] <narogon> at the same time?
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[17:08:32] <IchGuckLive> why do you want this
[17:08:43] <narogon> because i'm using a joystick
[17:09:03] <narogon> and I want to move X and Y axis at the same tiem
[17:09:23] <narogon> but it the movement seems erratic
[17:09:41] <IchGuckLive> let me test this
[17:10:01] <narogon> i read it only process one movement at the same time
[17:10:04] * kfoltman would probably prefer something like angle dial + jog dial
[17:10:05] <narogon> and discard the others
[17:10:38] <kfoltman> otherwise it's too dependent on manual skills, which is never a good idea ;)
[17:10:49] <narogon> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/345/
[17:11:48] <narogon> however it works if you press more than one key at the same time in the keyboard
[17:12:14] <IchGuckLive> narogon: works perfekt
[17:12:37] <IchGuckLive> how did you connect ypour jojstick
[17:13:05] <narogon> with a analogic input terminal
[17:13:09] <narogon> from beckhoff
[17:13:19] <narogon> i obtain the value correctly in hal
[17:13:29] <IchGuckLive> oh i got only a 3USD joypad here
[17:13:45] <narogon> i connect it with halui.jog.n.analog
[17:13:45] <IchGuckLive> the vid on how connect is on my youtube channel
[17:14:07] <archivist> narogon, do you have enough memory on the machine
[17:14:40] <narogon> memory?? do you mean RAM?
[17:14:56] <archivist> yes, eg user stuff being swapped out
[17:15:06] <narogon> yes
[17:15:27] <Jymmm> O_o
[17:15:35] <IchGuckLive> why dont you use the analog 2 dig so you got a bitwise
[17:15:49] <Jymmm> narogon: how much ram is installed on the machine?
[17:15:50] <IchGuckLive> net joy-xpos-jog halui.jog.1.minus <= input.0.abs-hat0x-is-pos
[17:16:02] <narogon> 4gb and
[17:16:05] <narogon> 3gb free
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[17:16:13] <narogon> this isn't the problem
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[17:17:17] <Jymmm> narogon: beckoff is a company, which product are you using?
[17:17:17] <narogon> I tried using bitwise
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[17:17:25] <narogon> and only jog one axis at the same time
[17:17:35] <narogon> el3102
[17:17:41] <narogon> but this isn't the problem
[17:17:48] <narogon> i have a correct value in hal
[17:18:15] <narogon> i check it with scope
[17:19:06] <narogon> and there isn't any problem with the signal with which i command halui.jog.n.analog
[17:19:41] <narogon> it seems this is the problem
[17:19:43] <narogon> http://sourceforge.net/p/emc/bugs/345/
[17:20:34] <IchGuckLive> here is works with the digital one
[17:20:51] <narogon> i'm going to try again with digital
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[17:21:17] <Jymmm> narogon: But works with keyboard, correct?
[17:21:21] <narogon> yes
[17:21:26] <narogon> with keyboard it's works
[17:21:28] <Jymmm> narogon: Solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxxy6C0ErE
[17:23:24] <IchGuckLive> as i said ;-)
[17:23:56] <CaptHindsight> has anyone worked on a SCADA front end for Linuxcnc? I'd like to control things like stepper motors on gantries and have a simple UI.
[17:24:29] <narogon> i'm not sure i could use that Jymm due to i receive the information via Ethercat
[17:24:50] <narogon> I'm going to try with digital inputs
[17:24:51] <narogon> again
[17:25:51] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i use only gantry style large mashines with stepeprs
[17:27:03] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: these are just small cranes
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[17:27:57] <CaptHindsight> precision process control with cnc machines and assembly lines
[17:29:42] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: you trying to automate some processes?
[17:29:48] <IchGuckLive> so where is the hint only the UI
[17:29:54] <narogon> it doesn't work in digital for me neither IchGuckLive
[17:30:03] <narogon> only one axis at the same time
[17:30:07] <narogon> :S
[17:30:31] <narogon> in teleop mode
[17:30:35] <narogon> in joint mode it works
[17:31:36] <narogon> I'm using non trivial kinematics
[17:32:00] <narogon> could it be the reason it works for you?
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[17:32:42] <IchGuckLive> then im off i got only triv mashines
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[17:36:40] <Jymmm> narogon: You might post to the mailing list/forum
[17:37:30] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it's automation in general
[17:37:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: dont want to use classic-ladder?
[17:38:06] <narogon> would do you think is the best subforum to place it?
[17:38:33] <CaptHindsight> custom machines that may not have any cutting or puting tools, but have synchronized motion
[17:38:34] <narogon> advanced configuration i supposed
[17:39:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If they're synced, something has to control it, not necessarily a "dumb" device, is it?
[17:39:42] <CaptHindsight> ladder is too clunky, it needs a easy to see and use UI
[17:39:58] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[17:40:34] <CaptHindsight> lets say it's a gantry to load and unload parts to cnc mills
[17:41:33] <CaptHindsight> it's easy enough to use Linuxcnc to control the gantry but there's no UI for that
[17:42:06] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Well, when you said you didn't want the kludginess of CL, I understand what you mean, but wouldn't that be part of your gcode ?
[17:42:39] <CaptHindsight> well you could use AXIS and mod it to look like SCADA UI's
[17:43:31] <CaptHindsight> I'm looking at what to do
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[17:44:08] <narogon> i post in the forum
[17:44:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz74dDW_c-c
[17:44:17] <narogon> thank you all for your help!! :D
[17:44:19] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: i use a simple m code for that and got a pyvcp button that loads the next part
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[17:44:53] <IchGuckLive> its like a normal Ocode
[17:45:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: He did it in CL *shrug*
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[17:46:11] <IchGuckLive> and the crane is UVW on top of YZ
[17:46:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: do you really need a "GUI", or will idiot lights do (AXIS LED's)?
[17:47:03] <CaptHindsight> SCADA-like UI for Linuxcnc that gives the user some simple control http://www.downloadcollection.com/graphics/largeimages/aggregate_scada_hmi-845380.png
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[17:47:23] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: it should look like the image above ^^
[17:47:37] <IchGuckLive> hi revo14 how is it in venzuela
[17:47:48] <revo14> hello
[17:47:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You have that much Screen real estate to play with?
[17:48:12] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: sure HD 1920 x 1080p
[17:48:31] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: is it interactive? What size screen 20" ?
[17:48:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationworld.com/sites/default/files/styles/lightbox/public/field/image/120723scada_web.png?itok=IlXV7wPd
[17:49:23] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what size screen?
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[17:49:30] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yes, it should be interactive 19-23" touch LCD's are the common size panels
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[17:50:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: And this is all for "in house" purposes?
[17:51:41] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: define "in house"
[17:51:55] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: internal use only
[17:52:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: not for customers/clients/ or the like
[17:52:26] <CaptHindsight> it's for anyone
[17:52:53] <CaptHindsight> but the easy to use UI is for the non-programmer
[17:53:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I get the "appeal" of it, but realisticlly from a Human UI perspective it kinda sucks. Sure it has bells and whistles, but eh.
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[17:53:47] <CaptHindsight> that doesn't need to know every line of code, they just need to perform ON/OFF, change intervals between events, distance of movements etc
[17:54:01] <Jymmm> And not everything has to be "easy" to configure, this isn't legos =)
[17:54:11] <CaptHindsight> this needs to be
[17:54:12] <Jymmm> intuitive yes,
[17:54:21] <CaptHindsight> like legos
[17:54:36] <malcom2073> Hey Legos, I can 3d print that
[17:54:37] * malcom2073 runs
[17:54:50] <CaptHindsight> who can't :)
[17:54:58] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and the back end being what, xml ?
[17:55:02] <IchGuckLive> malcom2073: lego got a ┬žD printer legobot
[17:55:11] <CaptHindsight> ghetto 3D glue gun
[17:55:12] <DaViruz> let's build a reprap out of legos
[17:55:14] <malcom2073> IchGuckLive: I saw the lego based pancacke printer heh
[17:55:16] <DaViruz> that can print legos
[17:55:20] <DaViruz> it's self replicating!
[17:55:24] <malcom2073> Lol DaViruz
[17:55:26] <CaptHindsight> also GGG
[17:55:29] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: and the back end being what, xml ?
[17:55:41] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: undecided
[17:56:05] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I'm trying to see whats been done, if anything with Linuxcnc
[17:56:05] <malcom2073> What do the UI's use to communicate with the linuxcnc backend, is it all done in NML?
[17:57:10] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: *I* have always hated xml, too bloated for my tastes. I prefer JSON. But, what *I* would do is make it native config from text (whatever flavor you decide), then pull those into GUI
[17:57:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Even if the user never see's the text aspects.
[17:58:03] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: If you do this, when (not if) bugs come aroudn, you can isolate them down
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[17:58:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: it would also make it easier to create new tools/objects/devices as blocks, maybe even by concat'ing them together
[17:59:10] <Jymmm> very much like you can do with PS files
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[17:59:33] <saki`> hey all
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[17:59:49] <IchGuckLive> Hi B)
[17:59:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You can even use SQLite to store this all in, and import/export as text any time you want.
[18:00:27] <saki`> does anyone here speak french?
[18:00:54] <IchGuckLive> saki`: im living on the french boarder in germany
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[18:01:49] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: One of my biggest issues is you are not in control of SCADA, and if LIFE SAFETY is an issue, or a client needs a fix ASAP, you can CYA
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[18:03:33] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: *I* just don't take the developers mentality of "will fix it maybe i the next release". See Also: Firefox Memory leaks for the last 5 years =)
[18:06:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Look at "SHUTDOWN PLANT" and "START PLANT" http://www.downloadcollection.com/graphics/largeimages/aggregate_scada_hmi-845380.png
[18:06:31] <CaptHindsight> even for lab automation, that was just an example
[18:06:44] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Since when are fingers these narrow wide things? The controls need to be the human sized/scaled
[18:07:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I understand, it was jusrt one example of Human UI I was taking about
[18:07:22] <Jymmm> talking*
[18:07:47] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Is see crap like that in Android UI too
[18:08:21] <saki`> hey so a friend of mine has been trying to get a case made for his keyboard
[18:08:51] <saki`> but the plans are in french, I just need to know what guage/thickness the aluminium sheet needs to be
[18:08:53] <saki`> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByfnZVaROQ7-VDZhM3VQU2dfWkFKbDE1VGJvWmVIZlE1OHlJ/edit?usp=sharing
[18:09:03] <saki`> if someone would be so kind
[18:09:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: But I suspect you have a client need, so good luck with it =)
[18:09:26] <Jymmm> saki`: google translate
[18:10:28] <CaptHindsight> heh I can't find the Linuxcnc flow chart
[18:10:36] <CaptHindsight> where is that hiding?
[18:11:03] <Jymmm> saki`: which page?
[18:13:17] <saki`> the first and second pages are the plans
[18:14:27] <saki`> Jymmm: "MATIERE : ALU G4 15-10" I suspect this is the specification but googling it doesn't yield any results
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[18:19:10] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, did you google 'linux scada'? maybe the list of OpenSOurce SCADA apps at Sourceforge?
[18:19:11] <tjtr33> http://sourceforge.net/directory/science-engineering/scada/os:linux/freshness:recently-updated/ http://linuxscada.info/
[18:20:38] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: ALU G4 is 7025 Titan aluminum blank sheets
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[18:21:35] <tjtr33> hehe free aint always easy http://xscada.narod.ru/
[18:24:24] <malcom2073> tjtr33: also: http://oscada.org/
[18:24:27] <malcom2073> heh, lots of them
[18:25:14] <tjtr33> over the years a boatload of scada and plc projects, many abandoned, some huge, lotsa work was done
[18:26:41] <tjtr33> malcom2073, that link shows the projet is from Ukraine, and has been pulled offline :( hope they are ok
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[18:29:27] <tjtr33> and Visual, scada & hmi tools, i got a load of these bookmarks, surprised they still 'work' http://visual.sourceforge.net/new/index.php
[18:29:57] <tjtr33> its a swamp CaptHindsight !
[18:31:35] <skunkworks> matsurra is almost level and in location...
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[18:36:38] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Just curious, is this a NEW control, or for an ADDITION to an existing one?
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[18:40:08] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: YEOW.... ouch.... and this is from GE?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ5ky-T1Soc
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[18:41:45] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Like I said, I get it (conceptually), but implementations really bite imnsho.
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[18:58:00] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: been looking into http://openscada.org/
[18:59:10] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: expanding Linuxcnc to control machines other than machine tools
[18:59:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: fair enough =)
[18:59:41] <CaptHindsight> for example someone asked for a simple automated tabletop gantry to more parts around
[18:59:49] <CaptHindsight> more/move
[19:00:05] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: like a pick n place
[19:00:24] <Jymmm> as one exmaple I can think of
[19:00:28] <CaptHindsight> it's easy to have Linuxcnc control the few steppers on belt drives but what do you give them for a UI?
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[19:00:52] <CaptHindsight> yeah, pick and place would be another
[19:00:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: CAD/CAM ?
[19:01:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: what, when you say UI you mean form an operator or programmer perspective?
[19:01:24] <Jymmm> from*
[19:01:32] <Jymmm> and dont say both
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[19:02:35] <Deejay> namd
[19:02:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: they are just not the same thing no matter how much one would like them to be.
[19:03:11] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: the operator non-programmer
[19:03:41] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ok, so how much does the operator need to know/have/control? START/STOP?
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[19:03:53] <CaptHindsight> programming can be anything, don't care
[19:04:39] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: ok, so this parts mover of yours, is it precision plaement?
[19:04:42] <Jymmm> plcaement?
[19:04:46] <Jymmm> bah
[19:04:46] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: whatever limited features the people paying for it tell the programmer ON/OFF, intervals between movements, simple things
[19:05:21] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: but you want pretty pictures/animations etc?
[19:05:30] <CaptHindsight> +/- 1" placement :)
[19:05:58] <CaptHindsight> yeah just nice pics and animations with limited control
[19:06:20] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I guess what I'm asking is what do you want that a switch/button can't give you now?
[19:06:38] <Jymmm> switch/button/LED
[19:06:58] <CaptHindsight> it's not on a touchscreen that can be configured for whatever custom machine
[19:07:07] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I think you need to define that first, then go from there.
[19:07:27] <CaptHindsight> sure
[19:07:38] <Jymmm> sounds like you want an ipad UI
[19:07:47] <CaptHindsight> in some ways
[19:08:06] <CaptHindsight> from that to a 50" LCD
[19:08:15] <Jymmm> basically monkey controls
[19:08:21] <CaptHindsight> bingo
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[19:09:15] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Ok, I want you to think about this for a moment.... "KISS doesn't imply a lack of complexity"
[19:10:18] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: I had this conversation a long time ago, and that is a difficult concept to absorb at first.
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[19:10:56] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Human UI is really a strange thing that I've studied for years.
[19:11:11] <CaptHindsight> it doesn't have to be just simple monkey controls, but that would be the low end
[19:11:25] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Sun Microsystems did a UI test with their employees once...
[19:11:53] <CaptHindsight> they have been mostly getting worse, too many kids with new but not better ideas
[19:12:16] <CaptHindsight> same with graphic design
[19:12:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: On their intranet they had a header navigation with five buttons.
[19:12:47] <CaptHindsight> gnome 2 vs gnome 3 etc
[19:13:14] <Jymmm> What they did was add a space between the buttons and the usability increased 600%. The issue was nobody realized they were actually controlls (buttons)
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[19:14:00] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Adding animations, etc makes shiny things on the screen, but it can also bit you in the ass in overloading the user.
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[19:14:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: So having a monkeyUI is more then (or less) than jjust "OH shiny thing" mentality.
[19:14:55] <CaptHindsight> what this might end up being is a UI builder for AXIS or similar
[19:15:13] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: you're preaching to the choir here :)
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[19:15:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You wil to tink outside the box for a bit and play with something?
[19:15:38] <Jymmm> think*
[19:16:12] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, at Timtos 2005 i chgd the sink edm software from Heidenhain Dialog to a picture of the part, and drag & drop crosshairs.
[19:16:21] <tjtr33> The user bomb sighted the approx posn, then a textedit box opened for him to edit the numbers and describe the operation wanted.
[19:16:22] <tjtr33> the code ended up still Heidenhain code, but the user had simple front end. ( the example was Brembo brake pads )
[19:16:56] <tjtr33> so the user saw something familiar , made no huge mistakes in dimensions, and was alloewed to edit the position and operation info
[19:17:02] <tjtr33> hth
[19:17:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: are you a programmer even if as-needed?
[19:17:23] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yeah, applications like that
[19:18:11] <CaptHindsight> you don't know what the next machine will be but lots just need a simple UI vs the whole toolbox like AXIS
[19:18:50] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You willing to think outside the box for a bit and play with something?
[19:19:36] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: I try to only compile with a soldering iron :)
[19:19:59] <tjtr33> hard to say, but maybe PVbrowser or OpenAPC. else plan on a load of software attempts ( too loosely defined )
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[19:20:51] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was looking at the SCADA tools since they have lots of UI design tools
[19:21:11] <CaptHindsight> and they have the drivers to talk to process controls
[19:21:36] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Play with the examples in Rebol-View, it's less than 1MB full install and just look at the code behind each example (right click) http://www.rebol.com/rebol-view.html
[19:22:16] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: You can create all kind of things GUI wise in it, and it's now open source apache license.
[19:22:18] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: was looking at OpenAPC yesterday
[19:22:55] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: extremely light weight, and cross platform from same code.
[19:23:14] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: can be complied to an self-contained executable too.
[19:23:31] <Jymmm> single file exacutable
[19:23:40] <CaptHindsight> that's why I was looking for any previous projects that tied into Linuxcnc besides Comedi
[19:23:41] <Jymmm> like the old skool dos days
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[19:24:18] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: 1.2KB calculator http://www.rebol.com/pre-view.html
[19:24:40] <Jymmm> and it's code http://www.rebol.com/view/demos/calculator.r
[19:25:15] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: yeah those tools get you the UI but it doesn't have the backend into process controls and instrumentation
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[19:25:39] <CaptHindsight> thats why I was looking at the different SCADA projects
[19:25:46] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: Actually, yes it does. that is not JUST a GUI Generator, that's the FULL APPLICATION
[19:26:04] <CaptHindsight> ok, let me look again
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[19:27:12] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: download rebol/view and play with it
[19:27:54] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: In some ways it's primitve/kludgy, but in other ways it's extremely light weight and straight forward.
[19:28:20] <Jymmm> biggest issue I hve is the docs are all over
[19:35:02] <tjtr33> i saw no internal hdwr i/o functions ( read write inb outb ) but if you can get your devices to write files with their status, and read files for changes, it could work
[19:35:25] <tjtr33> musiclessonz.com/rebol_tutorial.html
[19:36:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDhZxidomc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4l_nSUTwKc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YJlKHwH7gs 3 different bending machines controlled by Linuxcnc
[19:37:08] <CaptHindsight> what UI to use?
[19:37:47] <CaptHindsight> well the first two videos anyway
[19:38:49] <tjtr33> is 2nd vid accordian buttons?
[19:40:38] <CaptHindsight> says: CNC wire bender I made for one of accordions manufacturer.
[19:43:11] <SpeedEvil> I guess the hardest part of making an automated bender is clearing all of the audio samples.
[19:43:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS5jOHWw_gA LinuxCNC rope cutting machine
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[19:45:58] <SpeedEvil> Is that just to cut identical lengths of rope?
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[19:57:51] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, lash up arduino controllers over the hdwr, control them over web page using Bitlash Commander, simple javascript gui web page.
[19:57:53] <tjtr33> i did an exerbike with it. https://github.com/billroy/bitlash-commander/wiki pedal too slow & i sent ascii cmds to dim lcd and lower volume on laptop.
[19:58:23] <tjtr33> can see the youtube video if you dont pedal fast enuf :)
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[19:58:27] <tjtr33> canT
[19:58:58] <tjtr33> bbl
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[20:02:24] <CaptHindsight> I was asking in the other channel about what to do for UI on Linuxcnc controlled machines that are not machine tools
[20:02:39] <CaptHindsight> wire bending, rope cutters, pick-n-place etc etc
[20:03:27] <CaptHindsight> I was looking at open source SCADA as well since they have the GUI builders and the backends with drivers for instrumentation and process control
[20:04:42] <CaptHindsight> what do you guys think? Try to use some open SCADA tools for custom GUI's or maybe write a tool to make customizing AXIS easy
[20:04:45] <CaptHindsight> or??
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[20:05:35] <mozmck> have you looked at gscreen?
[20:06:53] <JT-Shop> CaptHindsight, you can just write a small GUI. Have you seen my examples and tutorials?
[20:07:08] <mozmck> gmoccapy?
[20:07:11] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: yeah was earlier today
[20:07:25] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: yes
[20:07:56] <CaptHindsight> JT-Shop: but was also considering the SCADA tools since they have the backends for process controls and instrumentation
[20:08:13] <CaptHindsight> morph SCADA with linuxcnc
[20:08:49] <mozmck> why use linuxcnc at all - isn't it way overkill for some of that stuff?
[20:09:48] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: what else to use to cnc control a bunch of motors (servos or steppers) that has a easy UI?
[20:11:53] <CaptHindsight> mozmck: say a machine like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4l_nSUTwKc
[20:11:53] <mozmck> I don't know! I was thinking you were talking about something a little simpler.
[20:11:59] * SpeedEvil wants to make a berry-picker
[20:12:27] <SpeedEvil> 'locate circular object of hue x' -> aim vacuum pickup tool at it. Remove berry.
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[20:14:53] <CaptHindsight> yank until there's a sudden loss in tension
[20:14:58] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: interesting machine!
[20:15:39] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Gscreen is nice
[20:16:12] <CaptHindsight> I'll try this for a simple gantry crane
[20:16:36] <CaptHindsight> 2 steppers and belt actuators with a hook
[20:24:26] <_methods> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQO3IkQ0Lo
[20:24:49] <_methods> pretty damn spiffy
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[20:27:16] <CaptHindsight> I use the audio from that video for my alarm clock
[20:31:24] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: did you see gmoccapy? http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26314-gmoccapy-a-new-screen-for-linuxcnc?limitstart=0
[20:32:04] <mozmck> CaptHindsight: Also there is a new Qt based gui being worked on at the machinekit site: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/machinekit/ghCyQMIpUW4
[20:32:32] <SpeedEvil> _methods: yours?
[20:34:45] <CaptHindsight> it's a the same problem for 3d printers (not ghetto glue guns). What GUI for SLA/LCD, SLS, DMLS etc?
[20:36:52] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: On those three videos, the last one has a windows "START" button =)
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[20:37:17] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: did you try Rebol/View?
[20:42:19] <SpeedEvil> On the topic of 'linuxcnc thingies'
[20:42:32] <SpeedEvil> I'm contemplating a linuxcnc concrete mixer.
[20:43:44] <mozmck> how about a linuxcnc doorbell?
[20:44:00] <SpeedEvil> Well - more than that - a teeny batch high-speed concrete mixer which mixes a batch of concrete at about 100C very, very fast, then squirts it into a mould, sprinkles chips on top of it, tampsit down, and then tips it out of the mould several minutes later when it's set.
[20:46:20] <mozmck> Sounds like more of something for a microcontroller or PLC to me.
[20:47:07] <CaptHindsight> cnc concrete block maker
[20:47:57] <SpeedEvil> mozmck: Perhaps - I'munsure.
[20:48:17] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: will try that as well soon
[20:48:34] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: LOL, you could have done that by now =)
[20:48:42] <SpeedEvil> CaptHindsight: Sort-of. They're unusual concrete blocks. 1.2*0.6m or so is the design aim, 1.5cm thick, with chips fused to the top surface and strengthening members and keyhole fixings on the back
[20:49:14] <mozmck> I don't know either, but it doesn't sound like it would need much real motion control. Motors, switches/sensors, and timers?
[20:49:40] <SpeedEvil> Part of it is probably going to involve spreading patterns of chips
[20:49:47] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It's system independant, there's no real "install", more like "unzip and run"
[20:49:53] <SpeedEvil> And wires.
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[20:56:33] <MattyMatt> will it vibrate the moulds too?
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[20:57:36] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ward-3-capstan-turret-lathe/171334716326
[20:57:57] <SpeedEvil> MattyMatt: Perhaps - though I think the elimination of air may avoid the need for that.
[20:58:08] <SpeedEvil> I'm mixing it under steam.
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[21:00:33] <tjtr33> if this isnt too much bloat, skip linuxcnc, use pyvcp & hal ( or qtvcp or gladevcp or tcltkvcp ) gets you RT and Hal and diy gui ( not web page but gui for any size screen )
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[21:17:11] <Deejay> gn8
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[21:24:25] <tjtr33> Fet driver tester pyvcp & hal w/o linuxcnc ttp://imagebin.ca/v/1O0k6Ca8nlbg
[21:24:33] <Jymmm> http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/tdm/telerobotics/telerobotics_overview.html
[21:24:52] <tjtr33> why does USA imagebin.org get id'd as an attack site?
[21:26:05] <tjtr33> robots with smartphones? danger will robinson danger danger (waves arms )
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[21:54:45] <zeeshan> just you guys wait
[21:54:45] <zeeshan> im gonna spend a considerable amount of time on anice gui
[21:55:03] <uw> pix or didnt happn
[21:56:13] <zeeshan> can't wait to get the cnc running
[21:57:57] <CaptHindsight> http://tv.slashdot.org/video/?embed=c5MHYybjooHQt7q-uu9D5nkScJ90R93c opener source laptop with FPGA
[21:58:23] <Jymmm> uw: New CNC GUI http://www.digisensei.info/win3/win95.jpg
[21:58:54] <uw> lol Jymmm ....sharp
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[21:59:07] <Jymmm> uwe_: Sorry, wrong one... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Windows_3.0_workspace.png
[22:00:21] <uw> oh win 3.0 is the new direction?
[22:00:26] <uw> sounds great
[22:00:41] <uw> maybe next it can be dos 5
[22:00:45] * JT-Shop is finally making progress on these parts... only 2 left
[22:00:56] <uw> parts?
[22:01:09] <JT-Shop> I make parts yes
[22:01:25] <Jymmm> uwe_: http://www.betaarchive.com/imageupload/2013-05/1368837904.or.80597.png
[22:01:31] <JT-Shop> I'm current making a dash power adapter for the Can Am Spyder RT
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[22:02:01] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/spyderstore/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=55
[22:02:05] <Jymmm> power what?
[22:02:15] <uw> xeyes, swet
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[22:02:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you're adding a USB port, that's it?
[22:03:25] <uw> i'd laugh but there's probably some bag who would buy it
[22:03:45] <Jymmm> buy what?
[22:03:55] <uw> the usb port/adapter
[22:04:31] <Jymmm> I did, 6 of em from the dollar store.
[22:04:48] <JT-Shop> USB or 12v your choice
[22:05:31] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'm confused, what parts have to be made to add a 12V port that wire and crimpons can't do?
[22:05:43] <JT-Shop> the black thing
[22:05:58] <Jymmm> the donut? what about it?
[22:06:20] <JT-Shop> did you read the description?
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[22:06:46] <Jymmm> Yep
[22:07:03] <Jymmm> w/o replacing anything you can add a power port
[22:07:27] <JT-Shop> yea if you want it dangling from the battery
[22:07:58] <Jymmm> What could you plug into tthe DASH of a MC riding down the road?
[22:08:14] <Jymmm> gps?
[22:08:15] <JT-Shop> your GPS or your phone
[22:08:25] <Jymmm> And you have to mount the gps right?
[22:08:28] <JT-Shop> your heated undies
[22:08:44] <CaptHindsight> https://www.crowdsupply.com/kosagi/novena-open-laptop jikes! $719,045 raised for that laptop
[22:08:46] <JT-Shop> yes, I make a mount for a GPS
[22:08:46] <uw> they make heated undies?
[22:08:48] <Jymmm> which would be better lugged in near the seat, not dash
[22:09:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: so you already have to drill for the mount, why not run cable up it?
[22:10:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not arguing, just not seeing the practile side of a dash mounted port.
[22:10:27] <Jymmm> I figure the cables might interfer with other dashes
[22:11:05] <uw> whatever you make it, i would support it as long as it's not that stupid 12v cigartte adapter plug\
[22:11:09] <uw> that thing sucks
[22:11:18] <uw> it's time for it to go away
[22:11:51] <Jymmm> dual usb http://www.onboardwithmarkcorke.com/.a/6a010536216f64970b017ee9e6d917970d-400wi
[22:12:17] <Jymmm> uwe_: there's powerpoles
[22:12:50] <Jymmm> and I like having a cigarette lighter on a full dress bike
[22:13:01] <CaptHindsight> heh uwe_ is getting all the messages meant for uw :)
[22:13:06] <Jymmm> makes it convienant at 70mph
[22:13:18] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, it must be practical I sell the crap out of them
[22:13:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, eh.
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[22:14:21] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you need to include a pic of it installed.
[22:14:22] <JT-Shop> a prototype http://www.gnipsel.com/images/Ram%20Mount%2013.jpg
[22:14:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I didn't realize that was YOUR site.
[22:14:34] <JT-Shop> yes I do
[22:14:41] <uw> thats wht i'm sayin it's the dumb little things people buy for some reas
[22:14:42] <JT-Shop> yes it is
[22:15:13] <Jymmm> Gawd that's a fugly dash
[22:15:28] <Jymmm> no style to it at all
[22:15:43] <uw> it's a canam...whta were you expecting?
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[22:17:01] <JT-Shop> Jymmm, reload the store page
[22:18:25] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I'd change the text to YELLOW or outline the red with white.
[22:18:29] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: tried to try rebol, after installing dependencies i still have some odd window face error. I'll try it on another system
[22:18:34] <uw> whats a good source for toothed belts and pulleys?
[22:19:04] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: It "says" install, but it's really unzipping. what ver of windows?
[22:19:15] <Jymmm> uw: McMaster
[22:19:19] <CaptHindsight> was on Linux
[22:19:28] <Jymmm> ah
[22:19:29] <uw> Jymmm, that isn't $1000 per pulley...
[22:19:43] <Jymmm> uwe_: No, $2000
[22:20:14] <CaptHindsight> uw: http://www.sdp-si.com/
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[22:22:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Voltmeter-Digital-Marine-Carvan/dp/B00JUI7VW8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1K90ZZDEFA98F3ZQAK4X
[22:23:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Uh oh, bad review on the voltmeter (solo)
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[22:23:59] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.amazon.com/WaterProof-Voltmeter-Accessory-Motorbike-Caravans/product-reviews/B00JROFO6A/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
[22:24:34] <Jymmm> I still like it though, one hole mount!
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[22:28:36] <uw> thanks CaptHindsight
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[22:49:11] <Jymmm> SO, I had disconnected everything frm my portable propane heater, cleaned it off, blew out all the goo and getting ready to store it on it's nylon bag to keep dust/bugs out of it. As I begin to put it in the bag I see the ceramic element GLOWING ORANGE and I'm like OH SHIT IT'S ON AND HOT!
[22:50:03] <Jymmm> No, it was the sun shining from the side on to the neon orange bag I'm putting it in reflecting off the ceramic element =)
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[22:52:56] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:53:17] <Jymmm> But I tell ya, it looked EXACTLY as it does when it's on LOW
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[23:46:08] <XXCoder> woot
[23:46:22] <XXCoder> tomorrow I actually start working with cnc at work :D
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[23:49:46] <zeeshan> nice
[23:51:19] <_methods> operating? or setup?
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[23:55:58] <XXCoder> operating. basically I place stock,m secure it, l;oad up correct nc file then run it
[23:56:55] <_methods> right on
[23:57:01] <_methods> heh watch out for burrs
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[23:57:28] <XXCoder> heh yeah been dealoing with em whple day today
[23:57:48] <_methods> well you hands get wet loading and unloading
[23:57:55] <_methods> then you get the shit cut out of you
[23:58:06] <_methods> always fun
[23:58:21] <_methods> better to bleed a little often than bleed a lot all at once i say though
[23:58:26] <XXCoder> life is risk, risk is life
[23:58:49] <_methods> hehe
[23:59:20] <XXCoder> infinite version - risk is life is risk is life ..... ...
[23:59:52] <_methods> you know what job you'll be running already?