#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-24

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[00:07:48] <andypugh> tjtr33: and NickParker: This is where the stepgen table pin codes are defined: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=hostmot2-firmware.git;a=blob;f=IDROMConst.vhd;h=ee9200775acd0fc365ff9ba56d320c8c7f2980d0;hb=3e97b6f53ad38c8cd05db36da8b888e5b7ac3850#l311
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[00:11:04] <tjtr33> andypugh, thx, stored for study
[00:13:35] <NickParker> andypugh: Yep either you or tom got me to look there earlier :) Sorry for bothering you with that last question, it was pretty obvious.
[00:13:38] <andypugh> So, to make a bitfile that supposrts table mode I think you just need to allocate some pins to those names
[00:14:06] <andypugh> I have not, so far, found what sets the table width
[00:14:08] <NickParker> I believe I've done that at this point. I added all the table pins and such I wanted compiled, and the result isn't bricking anything.
[00:14:41] <NickParker> andypugh: As I recall, it just assumes you're using full width, and you 0 out the ones you aren't using in your table data
[00:15:09] <andypugh> Yes, as long as you only want 6. But tjtr33 needs 8
[00:16:46] <andypugh> It is possible that it simply counts how many you have used, actually.
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[00:18:44] <tjtr33> ohm i expected to see something set an array size, but then i hit the end of the file haha
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[00:19:25] <pcw_home> It counts the stepgen pins to determine the width needed (though I think 6 is the max currently)
[00:19:41] <andypugh> Looking at the vhd files for PIN_ST12_72 is looks like those files define pins by number, with an "8" to show them as outputs. There is a mapping to name here: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/hal/drivers/mesa-hostmot2/pins.c;h=87fdfa2ca8f4432072f2749b6e785ad63f09c4e3;hb=HEAD#l126
[00:20:37] <andypugh> "Table7Pin" is defined (0x88 for an output) which looks like maybe you can have 8 wires.
[00:20:51] <andypugh> ("Step" being Table0Pin)
[00:21:30] <andypugh> 8 seems a more likely choice than 6, really :-)
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[00:22:35] <tjtr33> andypugh, i saw Table7Pin but it seems to count form 1 not 0, so i guessed 7 pins, (still studying )
[00:23:33] <tjtr33> then again adding Table8pjn would not be tough ( though 1 have not looked at relations )
[00:23:38] <andypugh> The 0x81 is "Step" up to 0x88 for "Table7Pin", so that is 8 pins.
[00:24:32] <pcw_home> The current limit is 6 but could be changed
[00:25:10] <tjtr33> i thought 2nd entry was DIR then Table2Pin up to 7 this is near line 129
[00:25:28] <andypugh> I am machining these parts by dropping them into a milled pocket with some hot-melt glue, and putting the whole thing in the oven for a while.
[00:25:37] <tjtr33> in any case i need to read more, and thx!
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[00:26:03] <pcw_home> there are constant for 8 table pins but the top two are currently unusable
[00:26:11] <pcw_home> bbl
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[00:28:25] <NickParker> Well I have table mode half working on one test stepgen right now
[00:28:41] <NickParker> the StepPin and DirPin are both behaving as if they were part of the table
[00:28:52] <NickParker> but the table2 and table3 pins are behaving like inputs still
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[00:34:07] <NickParker> Oh wait, I may not have actually compiled the version with table pins in it..
[00:36:18] <tjtr33> when you get back... you mean the table element names have nothing to do with their function? that 1st and 2nd (PWN and Dir) are just element to be used as you like?
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[00:41:14] <andypugh> Yes, in table mode step and dir are table0 and table1
[00:41:48] <tjtr33> arrrgh! thank you very much,, that might have confused me
[00:41:56] <andypugh> NickParker: You need to add 0x80 to the code to make it an output.
[00:43:07] <NickParker> Where do I need an 0x80?
[00:44:46] <NickParker> here let me just try again with a fresh compile real quick - I think I may have just not actually put the latest code on yet
[00:49:25] <NickParker> Ok yeah I do need to change something, table2 and table3 are still inputs.
[00:50:23] <asah> I am looking into using the core of hal and halrun from another outside process. I can do this using the python module linuxcnc, but this only seems to work with axis running (I get channel errors if not).
[00:50:47] <asah> is it possible to run hal only, but talk to it from python / c++ over nml?
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[00:53:15] <tjtr33> asah yes you can run hal w/o linuxcnc, lemme get notes
[00:53:39] <asah> and chat with it through an external python process?
[00:53:40] <asah> cool!
[00:54:07] <tjtr33> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html
[00:54:38] <asah> BTW how far along is the new Messaging effort?
[00:54:42] <tjtr33> niw for controlling it thru python, i dont know, but suspect its possible. and for NML i dont know its neccesary
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[00:55:40] <tjtr33> new messaging, like 0MQ? ask on dev to Michael H
[00:55:50] <asah> k
[00:56:40] <asah> thanks. I have been successful with commandline hal w/o linuxcnc, I am looking to have my own process talk to just a small running hal core.
[00:56:43] <asah> seems possible.
[00:56:45] <asah> Ill bug devel.
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[00:56:59] <tjtr33> did you and xemet? have to drive an 8 pole stepper (Responsyn ), i saw something on an Italian linuxcnc site that mentioned it and your names
[00:57:59] <asah> I know nothing about 8 pole steppers and italians =) so... no.
[00:58:24] <tjtr33> haha ok np
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[01:02:27] <ebrummer> I have a questions about encoders/resolvers
[01:04:33] <tjtr33> ask it ( rule of thumb here , just ask )
[01:04:43] <NickParker> rule of thumb on all irc really
[01:05:06] <ebrummer> most servo amps/drivers have feedback for the encoder or resolver going to them
[01:05:14] <tjtr33> if someone can help, they'll answer, silence means 'we dont know'
[01:05:19] <ebrummer> but if i'm switching to linuxcnc with say a Mesa 7i49
[01:05:47] <ebrummer> to run the resolvers into LinuxCNC to do the PID, do I not have the amp/driver part of the feedback loop?
[01:06:47] <MrHindsight> the amp/driver powers the motor, so it's in the loop
[01:07:17] <ebrummer> i might say using a gecko 320x, it has a pid feedback loop with it, completely independent of LinuxCNC
[01:08:25] <ebrummer> so the computer would send out signal to move, and the servo amps would respond and do the feedback loop, but then if I'm using the 7i49, i can take the resolvers (or encoders if that were what I had) to Linux CNC instead
[01:09:35] <asah> ebrummer, can you describe your components more?
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[01:10:38] <ebrummer> 3 axis shizuoka CNC mill with a bandit controller. stripping bandit. i have 3 dc servo motors with resolvers that are driven by westamp servo amps. the servo amps are controled via +/- 10v signals from a controler
[01:10:55] <asah> typically the encoder or resolver are on the motor and feedback the position or velocity to linuxcnc which can respond in many different ways to "close the loop" and affect controlled movement.
[01:11:15] <MrHindsight> http://www.geckodrive.com/g320x.html
[01:11:45] <ebrummer> i mentioned the 320x cause depending on how these old westamp servo amps work, i might convert to encoders/those drivers
[01:12:12] <MrHindsight> it's a DC servo drive with STEP and DIRECTION
[01:12:25] <asah> ok. do you have any position feedback, glass scales etc?
[01:12:32] <ebrummer> no i do not
[01:12:42] <MrHindsight> http://www.geckodrive.com/g320x-rev-10
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[01:13:27] <asah> do you have access to the encoder signal? or is it going straight to the westamp?
[01:13:36] <ebrummer> but it seems to me that all servo amps/drivers i've seen do the feedback loop internally (resolvers or encoders go back to the driver) and it responds to adjust for error
[01:13:44] <ebrummer> its resolver and it goes to the driver
[01:13:56] <ebrummer> i think it might also go to the old controller but i'm not sure on that
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[01:14:34] <andypugh> ebrummer: Often there is a velocity loop internal to the drive, and the position loop runs in the controller.
[01:14:56] <ebrummer> ok, that might be what Im seeing then.
[01:14:59] <andypugh> But it is equally possible to run all the control loops in the controller.
[01:15:08] <NickParker> andypugh: What were you saying earlier about 0x80?
[01:15:09] <asah> right, so on my maho there are tachos on the motors, those feedbakc the velocity to the drive and the voltage sets the velocity desired.
[01:15:19] <asah> but I have glass scales, so I have an absolute position reference.
[01:15:32] <asah> for closing the position control loop.
[01:15:56] <ebrummer> i assume ideally, having linuxcnc do the full loop close is best for positional accuracy
[01:15:56] <tjtr33> ebrummer yes, and the position feedback need to get to linuxcnc thru some interface like Mesa
[01:16:02] <andypugh> (My mill runs current-mode, resolvers on the motors give position feedback, and LinuxCNC sends current commands to achieve the required position)
[01:16:44] <andypugh> Actually, velocity-mode amps with position control in LinuxCNC works well, and can be easier to tune.
[01:17:11] <tjtr33> ebrummer, are your scales absolute?
[01:17:20] <asah> the key for ebrummer is to find out how to access those resolver signals in linuxcnc
[01:17:36] <tjtr33> sorry that was asah had abso
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[01:17:47] <asah> yep.
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[01:18:57] <tjtr33> bbl
[01:19:44] <ebrummer> thanks
[01:20:10] <ebrummer> i'm sure i'll be back once i started testing the mesa cards with the servo amps
[01:20:28] <PetefromTn_Andro> Watching UFC fight night here... have not seen this in awhile.
[01:23:08] <tjtr33> ebrummer, this may be of use http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/09/servo-setup/
[01:23:15] <tjtr33> as a model
[01:24:11] <ebrummer> yep. that makes sense to me
[01:25:16] <ebrummer> just wasn't sure if i should be splitting the resolver signal and sending it to the servo amp and mesa
[01:26:26] <ebrummer> my servo amps are so old i'm not sure if I can even tune one axis properly since supposedly the pots are prone to fail (so i might upgrade servo amsp)
[01:26:30] <NickParker> tjtr33: You don't have any idea what andypugh was talking about do you? I'm pretty stumped right now.
[01:28:37] <andypugh> It may be that andypugh was talking rubbish
[01:28:52] <andypugh> What's puzzling you?
[01:28:54] <ebrummer> thanks again everyone.
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[01:29:28] <NickParker> Well as of 5 seconds ago, it's that i don't seem to be using my pins file
[01:29:49] <NickParker> just thought to check dmesg again..
[01:30:30] <NickParker> Here's my pins file:
[01:30:30] <NickParker> http://pastebin.com/0mhDBuFd
[01:30:53] <NickParker> and I have use work.MYPINS0.all in the main TopPCIHostMot2.vhd
[01:31:27] <andypugh> does it all compile to make a bitfile? It's really hard to spot the errors in all the scrolling text
[01:31:47] <NickParker> Yes it all compiles, no errors
[01:31:54] <NickParker> billions of warnings, but that's inevitable it seems
[01:32:42] <andypugh> So, what does dmesg say when you use that bitfile?
[01:32:51] <andypugh> And which Mesa card are you using?
[01:32:53] <Tom_itx> some of the warnings you need to look at
[01:32:58] <Tom_itx> like timing
[01:33:33] <NickParker> Like these? "Timing constraint PATH "TSLowToMed_path" TIG ignored during timing analysis."
[01:33:40] <Tom_itx> no
[01:33:48] <Tom_itx> ones that exceed the restraints
[01:34:24] <NickParker> Is there a way to set what raises warnings and what doesn't?
[01:34:38] <NickParker> I don't really need to know every single Latch that gets trimmed..
[01:34:44] <Tom_itx> probably but i haven't messed with that
[01:36:13] <NickParker> Ok wait, I just reran my hal and dmesg after changing num_stepgens to -1 so they would all enable
[01:36:28] <NickParker> and now it's showing me the pins from PROB_RFX configuration
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[01:37:04] <NickParker> which is the file I started from for my pins files
[01:37:30] <andypugh> dmesg will list the pins by name. You should see the table pins
[01:37:32] <NickParker> but I renamed the package in the MYPINS0.vhd, and my main vhd file says to use MYPINS0.all
[01:38:12] <NickParker> andypugh: Yeah I don't, I see the pins listed in PIN_PROB_RFx2_34
[01:38:28] <andypugh> Which card are you using?
[01:38:31] <NickParker> 6i25
[01:38:41] <NickParker> work.Sixi25_x9card.all in my code
[01:39:08] <andypugh> You need to reflash the 6i25 with the new bitfile using Mesaflash, and then you need to power-cycle the computer.
[01:39:20] <andypugh> (not just reboot)
[01:39:34] <NickParker> andypugh: alright, I've only been rebooting.
[01:39:35] <NickParker> Will do
[01:40:35] <skunkworks> I think when I was playing with the engraver - I hooked the drives directly to the printer port
[01:40:38] <skunkworks> heh
[01:40:41] <skunkworks> wrong window
[01:47:50] <NickParker> Ok I power cycled and now it seems to be using the right bitfile, but a new issue has cropped up: http://pastebin.com/eGwmDjE2
[01:48:02] <NickParker> Complaining about parameters in hm2_pci
[01:49:27] <andypugh> what does dmesg say?
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[01:51:27] <NickParker> just getting that for you
[01:51:37] <nlancaster> so I am trying to get linux cnc running, too among other things see if windowsxp+mach3 is part of my z-axis step issue.
[01:51:42] <NickParker> http://pastebin.com/XysgaMyT
[01:51:49] <nlancaster> anyone know if an atom 330 dual core will run linuxcnc ok?
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[01:52:33] <NickParker> nlancaster: Run it off usb and run latency test :)
[01:53:21] <andypugh> NickParker: Something wrong with the pin file: [ 520.120052] hm2/hm2_6i25.0: pin 21 primary tag is 0 (end-of-list sentinel), expected 34!
[01:53:21] <nlancaster> do you mean the "test base period jitter" ?
[01:53:26] <nlancaster> and if so what am I looking for in that?
[01:53:40] <nlancaster> nvm found the latency test. lol
[01:54:07] <NickParker> nlancaster: I don't actually remember the numbers you want, just that I got 25,000 and that was good enough
[01:54:26] <NickParker> nlancaster: wait a sec let me look them up
[01:54:58] <tjtr33> NickParker, yes i dont know what the 0x80 is about ( i guessed it might be a first entry but guesses dont count )
[01:55:49] <NickParker> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/pdf/LinuxCNC_Getting_Started.pdf
[01:55:51] <NickParker> nlancaster: page 24
[01:56:04] <nlancaster> thanks
[01:56:50] <nlancaster> that is spindle configuration?
[01:57:15] <NickParker> nlancaster: page 19 by the numbers on the pages
[01:57:18] <NickParker> page 24 of the pdf as a whole
[01:57:42] <nlancaster> ah thanks
[01:58:46] <NickParker> andypugh: I/O 21 is a pin for one of the stepgens I don't want which I turned into emptypin
[01:59:04] <NickParker> Oh, perhaps I need to adjust the instance number on StepGenTag..
[01:59:35] <NickParker> yeah it was set to 8.. now returned to 3.
[02:00:12] <NickParker> andypugh: I'm allowed to just emptypin out pins like this right? http://pastebin.com/Uhd5tCsc
[02:00:37] <NickParker> Oh wow that paste is near unreadable...
[02:00:42] <andypugh> I don't know. But why would you emptypin them?
[02:01:02] <NickParker> They were assigned to stepgen instances which I don't need
[02:01:09] <NickParker> I guess I could just leave them there
[02:01:35] <andypugh> But there is no harm in keeping them as stepgens, then disabling them in the HAL file to use as GPIO.
[02:03:13] <NickParker> Yeah actually that makes sense.
[02:03:20] <XXCoder> playing around with http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard a bit
[02:03:33] <XXCoder> it dont have MDF and plywood as well as regular wood
[02:03:40] <XXCoder> would mahohgany work for those?
[02:05:14] <andypugh> I have never tried using it for wood.
[02:05:29] <andypugh> Anyway, work tomorrow. Goodnight.
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[02:05:58] <NickParker> Thanks for all the help
[02:06:26] <tjtr33> gnite andypugh
[02:06:55] <pcw_home> emptypin can not be used for a actual hardware pin
[02:07:41] <tjtr33> NickParker, are you using the table mode, and are there docs for table mode? ( or just the code )
[02:08:03] <pcw_home> man hostmot2
[02:08:26] <pcw_home> (master only of course)
[02:08:57] <tjtr33> thx pcw_home
[02:10:19] <pcw_home> IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin
[02:10:21] <pcw_home> for GPIO only pins
[02:10:49] <pcw_home> constant IOPortTag : std_logic_vector(7 downto 0) := x"03";
[02:11:38] <NickParker> tjtr33: yeah the man page is all there really is
[02:13:19] <pcw_home> so you could define a GPIO only pin as
[02:13:21] <pcw_home> constant JustGPIO : std_logic_vector(31 downto 0) := IOPortTag & x"00" & NullTag & NullPin;
[02:14:16] <tjtr33> got it, reading "u32 r/w) table-data-N" now
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[02:16:31] <pcw_home> the driver uses the 4 32 bit values as a string of up to 16 bytes each byte representing a output pin pattern
[02:16:50] <nlancaster> so after 10mins of using the computer, including surfing the web 15k max jitter
[02:16:52] <nlancaster> seems good
[02:18:09] <pcw_home> usually flash videos cause trouble if there are video driver issues
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[02:18:53] <XXCoder> ipm = feed say 34 inch per min on fswizard?
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[02:37:22] <tjtr33> pcw_home, am i understandng the table mode? http://pastebin.com/8gmtLx5J
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[02:42:44] <pcw_home> not quite since the table data is just output as you specify
[02:42:46] <pcw_home> so for your specified output the table data would be
[02:42:47] <pcw_home> 0x02020101
[02:42:49] <pcw_home> 0x08080404
[02:42:50] <pcw_home> 0x20201010
[02:42:52] <pcw_home> 0x80804040
[02:44:21] <pcw_home> which could be shortened to
[02:44:22] <pcw_home> 0x08040201
[02:44:24] <pcw_home> 0x80402010
[02:44:25] <pcw_home> with a sequence length of 8
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[02:52:31] <pcw_home> that is, the table data bytes are simply written to the I/O so your table-data-2 = 0x06060505
[02:52:32] <pcw_home> would output the pattern 00000101 00000101 00000110 00000110
[02:55:27] <tjtr33> ok, thx, reading...
[02:55:28] <Tom_itx> lifo?
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[02:56:44] <tjtr33> ok, if i setup the sequence, am i concerned with counting up and down thru the table?
[02:57:10] <tjtr33> i mean to ask, do i just set up a single fwd revolution in the table?
[02:57:42] <pcw_home> looks like its LSbyte first
[02:59:12] <pcw_home> yes you set up the forward table sequence form the ls byte of table 0 to the MSbyte of table3 (assuming the table is that long)
[02:59:50] <tjtr33> great, this is all do-able by a config line. amazing work! thx
[02:59:55] <pcw_home> (table sequences can be 3 to 16 long)
[03:00:02] <pcw_home> Thank Andy
[03:00:37] <tjtr33> thanks andypugh ( very quietly, he's sleepin )
[03:00:52] <pcw_home> the table stuff was always there in the firmware but not easily used without driver support
[03:02:22] <tjtr33> and i can ignore where man hostmot2 says theres only 6 IO pins?
[03:02:23] <tjtr33> " In table mode up to 6 IO pins are individually controlled in an arbitrary sequence up to 16 phases long."
[03:02:38] <tjtr33> becuase andy extended it?
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[03:06:56] <pcw_home> Actually i think it there was width limit of 6 at one time but the firmware doesn't seem to have that limit
[03:07:20] <pcw_home> constant StepGenTableWidth: integer := MaxPinsPerModule(ThePinDesc,StepGenTag);
[03:08:31] <pcw_home> looks like if you wanted 24 wide the firmware would not object, but Andys driver is limited to 8
[03:08:56] <tjtr33> it was mentioned that it might count the pins asked for. great thanks and have a great nite.
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[03:13:21] <tjtr33> gnite all
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[03:42:42] <XXCoder> probably stupid question
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[03:43:05] <XXCoder> when I has a machine, do I have to set parameters like how large motor case are?
[03:43:08] <XXCoder> if so, how?
[03:43:27] <XXCoder> so cnc would not acciently hit motor case on workpeice when cutting some 3d shape
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[03:59:48] <Valen> XXCoder: that's your problem
[03:59:56] <Valen> you can set the limits of motion for the machine
[04:00:09] <Valen> but there is nothing that will stop you from cutting holes in that machine
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[04:34:21] <XXCoder> Valen: ok, thanks
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[07:40:04] <Deejay> moin
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[12:09:24] <MattyMatt> popular beastie. 82 bids http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XYZ-PROTURN-CNC-MANUAL-LATHE-/321357559300
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[12:13:48] <MattyMatt> 2.6t on that palette truck. I'd make an offer for that too
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[12:31:35] <skunkworks> was it manual with jog wheels or actual handles on the end of the screw?
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[12:34:21] <MattyMatt> that lathe? looks semi-manual to me
[12:34:31] <MattyMatt> aka real handles
[12:35:03] <MattyMatt> the crossslide at least, the handle looks inline with where the screw would be
[12:45:18] <Loetmichel> *gnah* anyone knows how to reduce tha 2 sec lag wiht VLC webcam steraming? this wa its nearly unuseable, the machine will have broken the bit before pressing esc... -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kClMm1yC1Ug
[12:45:43] <Loetmichel> ... and yes, vlc sender and vlc reciver have already all caches to minimum or off that i could finsd
[12:45:45] <Loetmichel> find
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[12:52:47] <ries> Loetmichel: aren't not any other streaming solutions? VLC sounds a bit overkill to me? A option could be a security cam with coax?
[12:54:28] <Loetmichel> ries: thats is a bit difficult, having the webcam here and mountet at the machiene ;-)
[12:56:23] <Loetmichel> the pc für linuxcnc is a codualcore Athlon64
[12:57:19] <Loetmichel> AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 3800+
[12:57:31] <Loetmichel> that should be sufficient fpr linuxCNC AND the encoding
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[13:04:24] <tjtr33> hello, I was surprised to see no user mail this morning, but gmane says... aint no user mail for 24th!
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[13:06:22] <skunkworks> same here.. life must have engaged for a while..
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[13:18:18] <ries> Loetmichel: I am not a guru on teh subject, but may be due to the real time nature of the kernel VLC get's limited resorces or may be it cannot access some libraries to do iot's compressing.
[13:18:31] <ries> You can try a other compression method, so if that gives anything
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[13:29:40] <_methods> http://gizmodo.com/train-derails-at-chicago-airport-makes-it-halfway-up-t-1550226320
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[13:42:35] <skunkworks> yikes
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[14:18:59] <MattyMatt> ramps like that look better than buffers
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[14:40:45] <CaptHindsight> somebody was sleeping at the controls
[14:41:09] <zeeshan> ;]
[14:41:25] <CaptHindsight> the station is going to be down for months
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[14:44:33] <CaptHindsight> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-ohare-train-crash-20140324,0,1750012.story at least the escalator was made well, look how it survived that load
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[14:53:10] <humble_sea_bass> red eye flights are the worst
[14:53:19] <humble_sea_bass> i feel like that train
[14:54:29] <CaptHindsight> I prefer them
[14:55:05] <CaptHindsight> .... just not near 3 screaming babies
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[14:56:49] <humble_sea_bass> I got home at 1am so it wasnt really really a red eye, but the fact that i was on california time was a problem
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[14:57:15] <humble_sea_bass> if it wasn't for stupid monday status meetings I'd have stayed home
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[14:58:11] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: phone conference not possible?
[14:59:32] <humble_sea_bass> my boss loves loves loves to pow-wow for 3 hrs to review every open project and schedule. it is irrational and I've learned to not take off mondays because of it
[15:00:37] <CaptHindsight> heh, no chance of sleeping through it then
[15:01:20] <humble_sea_bass> not in the slightest.
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[15:03:20] <miss0r1> Can any of you guys recommend a place where I can purchase cheap and accurate FR4 double sided cobber boards? (The ones I just bought from china varies 6/100mm in thickness across the cobber - NO GOOD!
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[15:04:48] <CaptHindsight> miss0r1: where are you located?
[15:04:59] <miss0r1> CaptHindsight, Denmark.
[15:06:31] <humble_sea_bass> I buy from Newark.com
[15:06:40] <humble_sea_bass> i think they have a british counterpart
[15:07:02] <miss0r1> I was thinking somewhere along the lines of some specific ebay store located in europe (no import taxes if i buy within europe)
[15:07:27] <Loetmichel> miss0r1: try some stores taht sell Bungard pcbs
[15:07:34] <Loetmichel> expensive but very good
[15:07:38] <Loetmichel> (german made ;-)
[15:07:55] <miss0r1> Ahh - that smells like quality already - I will look at that. Thank you
[15:08:33] <MattyMatt> Vero is the quality british brand
[15:08:45] <Loetmichel> i use only bungart material
[15:09:14] <Loetmichel> i have pcbs with photo paint on that had 10 years of shelf... worked like fresh from factory
[15:10:27] <humble_sea_bass> you should rotate your stock more often man
[15:10:38] <humble_sea_bass> it is like milk, new ones go in the back
[15:10:44] <MattyMatt> you can't use pre-sensitised boards for that home through-plating process
[15:11:03] <MattyMatt> that looks like fun, although complex and expensive
[15:11:40] <miss0r1> Damnit - it seems I can only find german sellers of bungard pcbs - (My German is more than a little rusty)
[15:11:44] <MattyMatt> I still want to know what happens if you make a pcb out of clear PC
[15:12:23] <humble_sea_bass> you just need to adhere the copper
[15:12:27] <CaptHindsight> I print multilayer PCB's with SLA and SLS (but I'm just showing off)
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[15:12:56] <MattyMatt> yeah copper foil is easy to buy
[15:13:04] <CaptHindsight> you could use a clear epoxy
[15:13:15] <humble_sea_bass> west systems will handle this!
[15:13:18] <MattyMatt> or CA or just heat & pressure
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[15:13:34] <CaptHindsight> the fiberglass is clear but disperses the light
[15:14:50] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: at home
[15:15:10] <humble_sea_bass> heh
[15:15:48] <CaptHindsight> miss0r1: are you milling the boards to make the traces or chemical etching?
[15:16:00] <miss0r1> CaptHindsight, I am milling
[15:16:02] <archivist> clear saphire pcb, used in microwave work
[15:16:05] <MattyMatt> would thin clear PC stay sufficiently solid at soldering temp?
[15:16:06] <Loetmichel> humble_sea_bass: i havent used etching in a long time now
[15:16:12] <Loetmichel> because i have a cnc mill ;-)
[15:16:22] <Loetmichel> i tend to mill the pcbs now
[15:16:35] <CaptHindsight> transparent aluminum!
[15:16:44] <Loetmichel> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMXxjT4nNxg
[15:16:49] <miss0r1> MattyMatt, I can't seem to find any vero 160x100 double clad boards on ebay.co.uk - Anywhere specific I should look for it?
[15:16:59] <MattyMatt> indium tin oxide. transparent copper!
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[15:17:32] <MattyMatt> miss0r1, none I know sorry, only RS
[15:17:48] <CaptHindsight> gold on diamond
[15:17:52] <humble_sea_bass> miss0r1: try element14
[15:18:01] <humble_sea_bass> they are expensive, but they will have it
[15:18:23] <CaptHindsight> is element14 (Newark) world wide now?
[15:18:36] <miss0r1> MattyMatt, I was on the phone with RS earlier, but they didn't know weather their product was precise enough. Now I know - I will just order from them, I've been a customer there for ages.
[15:18:37] <humble_sea_bass> element14 is UK based i think
[15:18:39] <MattyMatt> element14 are farnell
[15:18:47] <humble_sea_bass> newark is their stateside thing
[15:18:56] <humble_sea_bass> FARNELL! that's what i was trying to rmember
[15:19:35] <humble_sea_bass> http://dk.farnell.com/
[15:19:37] <miss0r1> so farnell is also good?
[15:19:59] <humble_sea_bass> they are overpriced, but it is the cost of convenience
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[15:21:05] <miss0r1> indeed.
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[15:21:37] <MattyMatt> you could take your cheap FR4, and copper plate it with the cathode near the thin end
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[15:22:58] <miss0r1> It is not so much a thin end as it looks like the rocky mountain all across the surface
[15:23:14] <humble_sea_bass> hah
[15:23:28] <CaptHindsight> miss0r1: is the copper uneven or the core?
[15:23:29] <humble_sea_bass> so they gave you a crumpled piece of copper
[15:24:55] <miss0r1> CaptHindsight, I am having a hard time determining that. But it seems it is the core
[15:25:03] <CaptHindsight> it's only 2 sided, I'd just use them with the max z depth
[15:25:45] <CaptHindsight> are you sure it's even FR4? That sounds like the really cheap stuff, I forget the name
[15:26:00] <miss0r1> CaptHindsight, The problem is the time I have to spend measuring the entire surface of the board, and determin the top height. Then after than I have to mill it 3 times, or I will break my 0.3mm ballhead
[15:26:08] <CaptHindsight> really low cost and dielectric constant since it has lots of air in it
[15:26:11] <miss0r1> (err... break more of them, that is)
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[15:26:34] <MattyMatt> FR2 aka epoxy paper, can be flat if high quality
[15:26:35] <miss0r1> The seller claimed it to be FR4
[15:26:51] <CaptHindsight> have a pic?
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[15:27:40] <miss0r1> I can give you the seller link on ebay - I Hve no picture of the board here
[15:27:46] <miss0r1> (I could make one thou)
[15:28:03] <CaptHindsight> just wondering more out of curiosity
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[15:28:45] <CaptHindsight> but China + ebay description are terrible
[15:28:54] <miss0r1> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350805001241?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
[15:29:32] <CaptHindsight> nobody check the translations and they just cut and paste whatever into the descriptions
[15:29:46] * MattyMatt just tried to blow the dust off Loetmichel's pcb
[15:30:07] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: harhar
[15:30:11] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt
[15:30:16] <Loetmichel> did that already
[15:30:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14507
[15:30:32] <Loetmichel> result
[15:30:33] <miss0r1> Also - the boards was not individually wrapped, and in only one layer of bubblewrap. (15 boards alltogether) They were pretty mangled upon arraival. :)
[15:30:56] <MattyMatt> I need a cool air jet for milling plastic. I usually babysit it with a hose in my mouth
[15:31:02] <CaptHindsight> that's sad, I'd return them on ebay
[15:31:25] <CaptHindsight> contact the seller
[15:32:26] <miss0r1> CaptHindsight, I did, they tell me I must've dropped them when handeling them. I got pissed - they got pissed. I am now thinking of just giving them to a buddy of mine that etches
[15:32:42] <MattyMatt> I wouldn't bother for something that cost tuppence from china, just chalk it up and use them for something non-critical
[15:33:23] <CaptHindsight> they sounds like they are good BSers
[15:33:38] <CaptHindsight> you must have dropped them :)
[15:34:05] <miss0r1> indeed. And I don't want to sound rich(I am really not) but I can't be too bothered with 20UK pounds, and they know it.
[15:34:09] <CaptHindsight> and torn out the 15 spacers between each board
[15:34:15] <miss0r1> indeed
[15:35:42] <miss0r1> one good thing did come out of this 'adventure'. I was thinking my fixation of the board was to blame, so I did build a vacuum board, with 50 small holes under the surface of a 160x100mm board.
[15:36:20] <Loetmichel> hmm... nothing with my delay problem?
[15:36:45] <Loetmichel> i am the only one that is so insane to "supervize" the mill from the office nearby?
[15:37:27] <gonzo_> dilbert principal, all companies and procutcs are crap. The difference between the number sold and the number not returned through costomer exhasperation or lasyness is called the profit margin
[15:37:55] <MattyMatt> I do that, but it's only a dremel pusher, so I can hear if the tool breaks
[15:38:12] <miss0r1> gonzo_, :D
[15:38:14] <Loetmichel> MattyMatt: thats hat i want to avoid
[15:38:22] <Loetmichel> the tools are expensive ;-)
[15:38:46] <MattyMatt> mine aren't. I get the £10 for 10 sets, probably resharpened
[15:39:06] <Loetmichel> and they cut like crap i suppose?
[15:39:23] <Loetmichel> i mill aluminium with a chinese 6040 so it should be sahr mill bits
[15:40:00] <miss0r1> I am to god-holy lucky; a friend of mine is a tool maker(I don't know if that is the correct term: he makes steel moulds for moulding plastic). When their tools have run for exactly 125mins, they are discharged, even if they are not worn at all - he takes the good ones and give them to me (ALOT!)
[15:40:09] <MattyMatt> I haven't used an expensive one for comparison yet. I'm saving that until I stop breaking them through clumsiness until I've made a few good parts
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[15:42:16] <Tom_itx> miss0r1, i could send you some but the shipping would be prohibitive: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/Copper2.jpg
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[15:45:02] <miss0r1> Tom_itx, Holy! that is some pile you have there!
[15:45:20] <Tom_itx> i have a few full sheets as well
[15:45:34] <miss0r1> I don't even know what size a 'full sheet' is
[15:45:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/Copper3.jpg
[15:45:42] <Tom_itx> that's half a sheet
[15:45:53] <Tom_itx> 3 x 4'
[15:45:55] <miss0r1> oh mah' lord!
[15:46:08] <miss0r1> (I don't talk like that in real life...)
[15:46:14] <miss0r1> :)
[15:46:52] <miss0r1> How does one come across that amount? (with no killing going on - I assume you didn't kill anyone?)
[15:47:13] <Tom_itx> local boardhouse closed
[15:47:22] <Tom_itx> bought all their stock
[15:47:32] <Tom_itx> ~3 pickups full
[15:47:33] <miss0r1> Sweet. And that is a good quality?
[15:47:46] <Tom_itx> it's what they ran production with
[15:47:56] <miss0r1> with cnc mills?
[15:48:08] <Tom_itx> no they had huge etch tanks
[15:48:27] <Tom_itx> i use etching as well
[15:48:47] <miss0r1> well, if they etched it, it doesn't really mean that the thickness doesn't vary..
[15:49:09] <Tom_itx> it's not produced for milling...
[15:49:33] <archivist> milling is the wrong way in reality
[15:49:49] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[15:49:54] <Tom_itx> there's some results
[15:49:59] <Tom_itx> gotta run...
[15:50:37] <miss0r1> archivist, Indeed - but I like it too much not to.
[15:51:14] <archivist> I have never milled a pcb yet
[15:51:27] <Tom_itx> this is a SOT32-6: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard2.jpg
[15:51:36] <Tom_itx> with 3 traces under it
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[16:01:51] <rmu> Loetmichel: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9119106/how-to-reduce-the-delay-vlc-streaming-from-a-web-cam
[16:03:03] <Loetmichel> rmu: thy
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[16:11:18] <rmu> Loetmichel: I did not try it myself, but this http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/MJPG-Streamer should also work
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[16:13:04] <CaptHindsight> archivist: people do it because they can but they live without plated through holes, which is why I never bothered
[16:14:46] <Connor> I was going to do it, because I normally just make one-off's.. and I thought it was easier than etching..
[16:14:56] <jdh> me too
[16:14:58] <Connor> Plus, I don't like dealing with the acids..
[16:15:16] <jdh> I haven't done any acid in years
[16:15:52] <Connor> I made the mistake of using high end v-bits that cost like $25-30 each.. instead of the simple single flue ones.. and broke a few and got disenchanted with it.
[16:16:28] <jdh> I made the mistake of trying to use my non-flat cheap router
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[16:17:51] <Connor> My router had issues with Z too.. But, I think I solved that by making a fixture... only issue is.. you really have to face it every time you make any sort of adjustment.. and hope you don't knock the router out of alignment while changing the end mill to the v-bit..
[16:18:35] <archivist> bolt it to a bench that holds it straight
[16:18:52] <jdh> I plan on trying it with my 6040 if I ever order one.
[16:18:54] <Connor> router as in the spindle.. not as in the whole thing..
[16:19:05] <CaptHindsight> I rarely have aboard with less than 4 layers, 6-8 is most common
[16:19:33] <Connor> You can't do that DIY..
[16:19:38] <archivist> I only went to 4 layers for one job
[16:20:05] <archivist> fewer layers makes easier to fix
[16:20:32] <jdh> I often only want 1 layer, but 2 would be plenty.
[16:20:52] <CaptHindsight> with SLA + SLA we can have >10 in 0.062", it's actually layerless and more like multiwire
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[16:21:20] <Connor> huh?
[16:21:22] <CaptHindsight> SLA + SLS
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[16:22:15] <CaptHindsight> 3d printed, similar to a laser printer only using liquids
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[17:01:01] <jdh> gwar?
[17:01:05] <jdh> <urk>
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[17:04:15] <R2E4_> Does ENA on a 7i77 have a HAL pin?
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[17:37:52] <skunkworks_> how do you calculate the acceleration needed for a given circle at a given speed?
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[17:39:45] <zeeshan> constant velocity?
[17:39:53] <zeeshan> a = v^2 / radius of circle
[17:40:29] <skunkworks_> heh - just found that ;)
[17:40:34] <IchGuckLive> zeeshan: this is the formal that breaks the tools or and the mashine
[17:40:42] <zeeshan> if its not constant
[17:40:45] <zeeshan> its a bit more complicated
[17:40:57] <zeeshan> you gotta find the tangential and normal components of acceleration
[17:41:09] <zeeshan> IchGuckLive: lol
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[17:47:46] <jdh> finished your X on your lathe?
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[17:51:47] <zeeshan> jdh no!
[17:51:50] <zeeshan> building steam engine
[17:51:56] <zeeshan> for final capstone still
[17:51:59] <zeeshan> has been taking all my time
[17:52:07] <zeeshan> and at the same time im cleaning up/organizing the garage
[17:52:15] <zeeshan> a dirty garage is quite demotivating
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[17:52:20] <zeeshan> you?
[17:52:40] <humble_sea_bass> zeeshan: a particular steam engine, or your own design
[17:52:50] <zeeshan> mostly our own design
[17:52:57] <zeeshan> i mean it's not all original
[17:53:07] <zeeshan> a crankshaft and cross head are fairly common things on steam engines
[17:53:08] <humble_sea_bass> oh is it your senoir design thing?
[17:53:12] <zeeshan> yea
[17:53:27] <zeeshan> mostly me
[17:53:36] <zeeshan> and less of my other group mate
[17:53:44] <zeeshan> have been manufacturing it for the last 2 months
[17:53:45] <humble_sea_bass> kick his ass out
[17:53:48] <zeeshan> can't man
[17:53:52] <zeeshan> we started with 4 people in the group
[17:54:02] <zeeshan> 1 guy dropped out of the course 4 weeks in
[17:54:11] <zeeshan> my other friend got murdered =/
[17:54:17] <zeeshan> half way into the project
[17:54:27] <zeeshan> so its just me and my other group mate
[17:54:29] <humble_sea_bass> cursed steam engine???
[17:54:42] <zeeshan> nah, i think its just a test for both me and him
[17:54:55] <zeeshan> to pull through :D
[17:55:01] <zeeshan> it's starting to shape up pretty nice
[17:55:29] <zeeshan> ill post pics of it when its in good shape :)
[17:55:48] <archivist> must move my steam engine analyser from pascal to js to get it on the web
[17:56:45] <zeeshan> ;D
[17:56:52] <zeeshan> js?
[17:57:10] <zeeshan> archivist: i developed an electronic steam injector
[17:57:20] <zeeshan> that could virtually control the cutoff down to 15%
[17:57:25] <archivist> javascript so it can run in the browser
[17:57:28] <zeeshan> at 4000 rpm
[17:57:33] <zeeshan> but unfrotunately we couldn't build it
[17:57:45] <zeeshan> cause it'd take too long to build the controller
[17:59:32] <skunkworks_> nobody is wondering what the story is of zeeshan's friend?
[17:59:33] <archivist> someone took a diagram from an engine, it always gave a poor diagram, we measured the mechanicals and the auto expansion device, it was bad by design :)
[17:59:38] <zeeshan> skunkworks:
[17:59:38] <zeeshan> lol
[17:59:48] <zeeshan> these guys are harsh!
[18:00:01] <zeeshan> its a simple story
[18:00:05] <zeeshan> he was out with his friends
[18:00:11] <zeeshan> and some scumbags came and shot him to death
[18:00:23] <zeeshan> they say it was an altercation
[18:00:29] <skunkworks_> yikes
[18:00:39] <zeeshan> <- this is why i don't go out to clubs/bars past 12
[18:00:41] <skunkworks_> this is canada?
[18:00:45] <zeeshan> yes
[18:00:47] <skunkworks_> wow
[18:01:09] <humble_sea_bass> where do you live again zeeshan
[18:01:15] <zeeshan> hamilton, ontario, canada
[18:01:20] <zeeshan> i go to mcmaster unviersity
[18:01:24] <zeeshan> it happened near it
[18:02:36] <humble_sea_bass> sounded more like nyc circa 1987 at the height of the crack wave. that sucks
[18:03:13] <zeeshan> honestly i try my best never to get in an arguement with strangers
[18:03:39] <zeeshan> some people don't have anything to lose, they haven't even finished highschool and are selling drugs
[18:03:49] <zeeshan> and are just pretty much scum
[18:04:07] <zeeshan> so it doesn't take much for them to do something that's considered 'wrong' by normal people
[18:04:53] <zeeshan> http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4427403-mr-used-clear-out-is-part-jumble-sale-part-archeological-dig/
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[18:04:57] <zeeshan> i think i need to go visit 'mr used'
[18:05:01] <zeeshan> might have some fancy tools there
[18:05:08] <zeeshan> $400 Fill your car including the trunk and back seat with anything it can hold. You must be able to completely close your car doors and trunk.
[18:05:53] <zeeshan> my winterbeater car is a coupe
[18:06:05] <zeeshan> with folding seats, i use it to transport 10 foot long pipe all the time
[18:06:12] <zeeshan> i could fill a lot of stuff! :D
[18:06:55] <archivist> tek scope
[18:07:07] <zeeshan> yes
[18:07:13] <zeeshan> and there is a stainless steel sink i've been looking for
[18:07:15] <zeeshan> utility sink
[18:07:36] <archivist> but that model is 1960's
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[18:09:13] <kb8wmc> good day to all
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[18:11:20] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: HI
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[18:12:23] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: hello sir
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[18:36:00] <archivist> zeeshan, another on on fleabay 271433148782
[18:37:20] <zeeshan> now that's a proper level
[18:37:25] <zeeshan> what do you think it'll reach to price wise?
[18:37:29] <zeeshan> it only got posted today
[18:37:46] <archivist> I have that maker in my watch list
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[18:38:04] <zeeshan> you're a master ebayer et?
[18:38:05] <zeeshan> eh?
[18:38:05] <zeeshan> hehe
[18:38:20] <R2E4_> zeeshan: your not in Vancouver!!!
[18:38:22] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8283&subject=25070
[18:38:36] <zeeshan> R2E4_: no
[18:38:36] <zeeshan> :D
[18:38:54] <zeeshan> archivist: you don't need that many levels
[18:38:55] <R2E4_> I know, your in TORONTO, but they say eh? out west
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[18:39:08] <zeeshan> R2E4_: haha i like saying 'eh'
[18:39:18] <archivist> zeeshan, hence I post them in here for others to get
[18:39:19] <zeeshan> archivist: how much did you pay for that one?
[18:39:31] <archivist> less than 75 :)
[18:39:37] <zeeshan> fak.
[18:39:45] <zeeshan> that is quite cheap.
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[18:40:04] <archivist> I got a frame type for 21 plus carriage
[18:40:08] <zeeshan> none of you are bidding on that fleabay level
[18:40:09] <zeeshan> its mine
[18:40:11] <zeeshan> !!!
[18:40:28] <archivist> its a 12" one a bit big
[18:40:52] <zeeshan> wow
[18:40:56] <zeeshan> off of fleabay?
[18:40:57] <archivist> I not the felts are missing from in the box
[18:41:01] <archivist> note
[18:41:11] <zeeshan> that's not a big deal
[18:41:16] <zeeshan> felt can be glued back in :)
[18:41:24] <archivist> yup, you have to watch for years and pounce
[18:41:56] <zeeshan> what does the bottom of the level look like
[18:42:00] <zeeshan> does it have a v groove
[18:42:01] <archivist> iirc mine was ex army stores with a haggle due to rust on its feet
[18:42:02] <zeeshan> or just flat
[18:42:08] <archivist> v
[18:42:12] <zeeshan> awesome
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[18:42:26] <archivist> that bum has not shown the feet
[18:42:33] <zeeshan> yea hehe
[18:42:46] <zeeshan> looks proper.
[18:42:50] <archivist> there are possible rust marks in the box
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[18:43:55] <archivist> I would worry posting it that far, you should be able to find equivalent over there
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[18:47:07] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EDA-Level-61R-0-01-200-Engineers-Level-200mm-Long-Sens-0-01mm-m-/360890117575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5406ba2dc7
[18:47:08] <zeeshan> what about that
[18:47:29] <zeeshan> i don't see the calibration screw for it
[18:47:48] <zeeshan> bah its only 7.8"
[18:48:34] <archivist> that is similar in length to my smaller one (the one I use most)
[18:49:43] <archivist> greasy fingermarks new!
[18:50:45] <zeeshan> think that would be good enough to level a lathe and mill with?
[18:50:51] <archivist> yes
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[18:51:14] <zeeshan> the only thing i don't see is the leveling screw
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[18:52:09] <archivist> like my cooke it may be under the label
[18:52:36] <zeeshan> ah it is
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[18:52:40] <zeeshan> here is another pic of it from google
[18:52:46] <zeeshan> http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq265/shaggy4411/Master%20Precision%20level/level1.jpg
[18:52:53] <zeeshan> black screw
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[21:12:04] <Einar> Does this work outside Norway: http://radio.nrk.no/direkte/p1pluss
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[21:16:37] <skunkworks> seems to..
[21:17:13] * JT-Shop is having network LAN from hell today
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[21:38:54] <Bushman> ave
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[21:59:39] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:26:16] <CaptHindsight> http://www.plxtech.com/products/uart/oxpcie952 anyone try out the EPP on these with the Mesa 7i43?
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[22:39:48] <CaptHindsight> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-first-all-in-one-3d-printing-technology up to $101, from $100 last week!
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[22:40:18] <XXCoder1> its heavy with buzzworfs
[22:40:22] <XXCoder1> "spaceone" lol
[22:41:08] <CaptHindsight> they have some of the best 3D renderings of any campaign so far
[22:41:42] <XXCoder1> tool rack
[22:42:15] <CaptHindsight> I would have chosen Detroit as the location that needs help rebuilding
[22:43:38] <XXCoder1> not interested heh
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[22:54:24] <XXCoder1> it may be interesting to some, but it seemed to be really high priced item
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[22:54:44] <XXCoder1> maybe if it really was automated tool changing, even switch types - say from cnc to 3dprint
[22:55:31] <CaptHindsight> it's a poor design for FDM or for milling/router
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[22:57:25] <CaptHindsight> I'm don;t think they are even going to break even on the time spent for their website or 3d models
[22:57:42] <XXCoder1> if its unsccessful do they get partial fund?
[22:57:59] <CaptHindsight> This campaign will receive all funds raised even if it does not reach its goal.
[22:59:16] <XXCoder1> interesting. ok
[22:59:27] <CaptHindsight> what they should have done was use a duino along with something everyone loves ion #reprap, that way the fanboys would have jumped onto it
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[22:59:54] <XXCoder1> rich fanboys
[23:01:11] <CaptHindsight> it's like a cult in there now
[23:01:25] <XXCoder1> yeah theres such thing as toxic fanboys
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[23:01:36] <XXCoder1> dont they get it that they are destroying the very thing they loce
[23:01:40] <XXCoder1> love
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[23:03:52] <CaptHindsight> hp2200 under $20 http://www.amazon.com/HP-Webcam-HD-2200-BR384AA-ABA/dp/B004UR9P9Q
[23:04:08] <CaptHindsight> going to see how close I can get the lens to focus
[23:06:33] <XXCoder1> cool
[23:06:53] <XXCoder1> I was reading, found interesting ideas on making machine auto zero itself
[23:06:55] <XXCoder1> including z
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[23:11:38] <XXCoder1> some machines apparently has spot where they run to and calbrate
[23:12:02] <XXCoder1> buttons, or metal plate
[23:14:45] <PetefromTn_> you mean auto tool zero?
[23:15:11] <XXCoder1> yeah
[23:16:16] <PetefromTn_> I am working on a tool probe for my VMC right now..
[23:16:59] <XXCoder1> I doubt I would ever make auto tool zero. silly when I am just hobbyist
[23:17:26] <PetefromTn_> why my pal Art has it on his RF31 and loves it..
[23:19:02] <XXCoder1> maybe I would do z plate.
[23:19:05] <XXCoder1> easier to zero z
[23:19:10] <XXCoder1> while x and y meh
[23:19:54] <XXCoder1> if I ever build second one, maybe lol
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[23:25:13] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn_: we are working on auto tool zero using a camera
[23:25:31] <XXCoder1> capt how does it work anyway?
[23:25:42] <XXCoder1> does it align with stock edges?
[23:25:46] <XXCoder1> what about z?
[23:25:47] <CaptHindsight> I just need to find a cheap enough camera that works
[23:25:52] <PetefromTn_> seen that before looks cool.
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[23:31:20] <CaptHindsight> you find the edges you want and figure out the offset and then home or jog to that position
[23:31:32] <XXCoder1> cool
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[23:34:57] <Tom_itx> CaptHindsight, you seen this? http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/centrecam.htm
[23:37:17] <XXCoder1> it looks like tool bit camera
[23:42:59] <CaptHindsight> Tom_itx: I just want to extend http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video to have auto zero
[23:43:39] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Adding_Digital_Zoom_To_Camview-Emc was recently added
[23:44:34] <XXCoder1> so far I see, it automates XY
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[23:46:14] <Tom_itx> how do you ensure the camera crosshairs are the tool center?
[23:46:52] <XXCoder1> too bad theres no such thing as "ring camera"
[23:46:55] <CaptHindsight> the camera has to be at a known location
[23:47:12] <CaptHindsight> known offset from the tool center
[23:47:44] <XXCoder1> say, camera with 4 lens that can interplote one picture, plus all 4 pictures would have bit in view. you can calculate angles from it
[23:47:51] <PetefromTn_> Actually you usually just rotate the camera on the spindle and adjust until there is no runout in the video.
[23:48:04] <XXCoder1> if you guys create kickstarter or something just give me enough to get kickass cnc lol
[23:49:39] <CaptHindsight> we already do that and more with a zoom microscope, but most users aren't going to spend $K's on a a camera system
[23:49:54] <XXCoder1> kickstart a cheap version
[23:49:56] <XXCoder1> $100 say
[23:50:00] <CaptHindsight> $15 webcam is another story
[23:50:14] <CaptHindsight> kickstart what?
[23:50:21] <XXCoder1> the ring camera lol
[23:50:33] <CaptHindsight> what's the ring?
[23:50:45] <XXCoder1> I explained it a sec ago
[23:50:48] <XXCoder1> say, camera with 4 lens that can interplote one picture, plus all 4 pictures would have bit in view. you can calculate angles from it
[23:51:53] <CaptHindsight> I'm not a really good mind reader
[23:52:17] <XXCoder1> I'm not sure how I can explain more clearly
[23:52:40] <XXCoder1> ok picture this, a ring attachment on cnc router
[23:52:53] <XXCoder1> it has 4 camera, on - + X as well as Y
[23:53:22] <CaptHindsight> 4x $15 = $60 ok, I follow you
[23:53:27] <XXCoder1> computer then could take picture from all 4, and with 4 different points can calculate where bit point is
[23:54:09] <XXCoder1> it can touch down directly on stock xyz 0 point since it can see from any points of view
[23:55:04] <CaptHindsight> I follow you
[23:55:23] <XXCoder1> as bit of bonus, it would work for every bit. I think
[23:55:31] <XXCoder1> just change bit and hit button
[23:55:45] <CaptHindsight> you're making lots of assumptions
[23:55:50] <XXCoder1> yep, I am
[23:56:27] <CaptHindsight> be sure to let us know how that works out
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[23:56:39] <XXCoder1> nah not skilled enough unfortunately
[23:56:53] <XXCoder1> if someone takes this idea and hit it off, all I want is cnc machine lol
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