#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-03-22

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[00:02:21] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUGbagf5-4 thats what I hope to convert my first cnc to once I build it, and evenually build better cnc
[00:03:07] <XXCoder> probably would remove Z axis though
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[00:15:05] <andypugh> Is Codepad.org broken? Any program, even a syntactically invalid one gives "No errors or program output" for me. (Even pasting their own "Hello World" examples.
[00:16:29] <andypugh> also broken is fswizard! I might have to sleep at this rate
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[00:30:07] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: sorry for the delay; I was removing a header from junk equipment...takes AGES
[00:30:31] <sabotender> oh, I have chosen the cnc router that am going to get the panther 210 seems to be well made
[00:30:36] <sabotender> and I like the general design
[00:31:41] <andypugh> Well, I like the colour
[00:33:19] <andypugh> I think I would prefer supported rails on Y.
[00:34:00] <andypugh> And the gantry could have more lateral bracing (but you could add more, if there actually is a problem)
[00:34:36] <XXCoder> looks good small design
[00:34:41] <XXCoder> and I see SBR
[00:34:43] <andypugh> It does rather depend on what you are doing, of course.
[00:35:02] <XXCoder> SBR can be properly supported on top and side but not bottom right?
[00:35:28] <andypugh> SBR?
[00:36:16] <andypugh> I like that it has handles for when you just can't be bothered with G-code
[00:36:59] <XXCoder> its rail system
[00:37:11] <XXCoder> mini panther has em for X
[00:37:22] <XXCoder> http://www.ecpur.com/mini-panther-210-cnc-router-engraver-cutter-engraving-mill-p-5.html
[00:39:29] <andypugh> I actually like that style. They can borrow stiffness.
[00:40:06] <andypugh> (Well, I prefer large lumps of cast iron, really)
[00:40:22] <XXCoder> very solid I bet
[00:40:36] <KreAture> very few cnc's have actually proper adjustment options for aligning axis
[00:40:47] <KreAture> I find that odd
[00:41:39] <KreAture> it's finr for a small 200x200mm mill but when you have axis 1000mm long it doesn't take much before your holes are a mm away from where you wanted em drilled when machining something
[00:42:17] <andypugh> I converted this Chinese mill/lathe. Interestingly it is an OK lathe, but the mill is too flexible, the head goes "boing" if you slap it.
[00:42:18] <KreAture> The sbr20's I am getting is a set with 1100, 700 and 300mm rails
[00:42:18] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eaFsesYk3n8L1Hxj_CVHD9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:42:29] <KreAture> lol boing!
[00:42:44] <XXCoder> Kre I guess actual working area is less than that sizes
[00:43:07] <XXCoder> If so I'm not sure how much less.
[00:43:21] <KreAture> I know exactly how much less
[00:43:47] <KreAture> the screws I am getting are backlash free ball screws 1150, 750 and 350mm long
[00:44:12] <XXCoder> so, how much less? if axis is 300mm would it be 100mm? lol
[00:44:13] <KreAture> and with my planned bearing spacing I will get a working area of very close to 900x600
[00:44:20] <andypugh> If you slap the head of my second conversion project _you_ go "Oww!": https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GwJasYJB1sDpauT92DfiINMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[00:44:51] <KreAture> I am converting one for work
[00:44:58] <KreAture> quite a lot bigger than that
[00:45:03] <KreAture> it's 1.5 tonnes
[00:45:16] <andypugh> I wanted something I could find a home for :-)
[00:45:24] <KreAture> will take a pic of it next time I am in the new mech lab
[00:45:40] <XXCoder> So loss is around ~200mm,~150mm, ??
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[00:45:53] <KreAture> it's currently got manual jogging and numeric readout, but is not a cnc
[00:45:58] <KreAture> 150mm
[00:46:02] <KreAture> approx
[00:46:15] <andypugh> I deliberately looked for a small machine with a lot of metal in it. It actually has a slightly smaller work envelope than the Chinese Lathe/Mill.
[00:46:17] <KreAture> I may do 850 on the long axis to make a steadier gantry
[00:47:39] <andypugh> KreAture: Think about tool-changing
[00:47:39] <KreAture> My point is, x/y misalignment of only 0.1 degrees will cause my holes between min y and max y to be slanted off along x axis by as much as 1mm !
[00:48:14] <KreAture> cos(89.9)*600mm
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[00:49:42] <KreAture> I don't really need better than 0.1mm accuracy on those holes for my first project, but that requires a x/y angular precision of 0.01 degrees
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[00:53:02] <XXCoder> ok
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[00:54:42] <KreAture> I know how to do metal parts like that but flats and such only, how to do so accurate angles on multiple steps of mounted stuff I dunno
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[01:14:50] <R2E4_> evening
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[01:17:48] <PetefromTn_> evening..
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[01:19:11] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: shut da hell up!
[01:19:26] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: damn autocorrect... Hi how are you?
[01:19:31] <tjtr33> !seen xemet
[01:19:32] <the_wench> Never heard of the entity xemet you ask for
[01:21:36] <PetefromTn_> Jymmm Kiss my big fat white ass....!!
[01:21:46] <PetefromTn_> Damn auto correct...Hey man howsitgoing/
[01:22:41] <Jymmm> PetefromTn_: Bare it bitch! <grabs broom> {autocorrect strikes again> Pretty good <waves hand>
[01:23:10] <PetefromTn_> man you got some kinda issues...you on something? hehehe
[01:23:35] <Jymmm> well, what other come back is there to 'kiss my ass'
[01:23:50] <PetefromTn_> this is true...
[01:24:09] <Jymmm> <grabs broom> put s alayer of fear in there =)
[01:24:24] <PetefromTn_> oh you scared?
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[01:24:38] <XXCoder> human - issues = not human
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[01:41:51] <R2E4_> Hey PetefromTn_:
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[01:42:14] <PetefromTn_> hey man.
[01:42:16] <R2E4_> My Z dropped to my jack
[01:42:25] <PetefromTn_> how far?
[01:42:26] <andypugh> XXCoder: Though the inverse is not true
[01:42:35] <R2E4_> 2"
[01:42:44] <PetefromTn_> did it hurt anything?
[01:43:00] <R2E4_> No, it dropped on wood I had setup with jack.
[01:43:19] <R2E4_> Testing the brake. Needless to say, it failed. lol
[01:43:27] <R2E4_> working on it now.
[01:43:36] <PetefromTn_> When I first bought my machine I had to crank up the millhead by mysefl
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[01:44:08] <R2E4_> Drill? or by hand
[01:45:07] <XXCoder> Or Jedi
[01:45:25] <R2E4_> Dont know what happened. Wired the brake up and it released, but when I hit e-stop the relay dropped out but it held 90vdc and it dropped.
[01:45:26] <PetefromTn_> Believe it or not I was able to unbolt the screws holding the motor down and then with the brake locked down I was able to turn it manually by hand to raise it up to where I needed it...
[01:45:48] <XXCoder> http://www.tshirtvortex.net/wp-content/uploads/500x500xJedi-Cup-Of-Tea-Mug-Life-T-Shirt.jpg.pagespeed.ic.J1PYu0YdR8.jpg
[01:45:58] <PetefromTn_> Watching the new THOR movie now...KICKSASS.
[01:48:43] <PetefromTn_> I actually did this to lower the head down onto the wood blocks so I could move the machine to my house but also did it again to raise it up off the blocks to do something with the head. Then I did it again to put the head on blocks when I changed out the original motor for the new TEco motor with brake.
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[01:57:17] <R2E4_> There was 5 guys here saying its not going tomove at all. Dont even bother blocking it up. The screw will hold it. Good thing I listened to you guys here.
[02:00:21] <tjtr33> stepgen only goes up to 10 steps 5 phases :( is there any hope for these 8 phase Responsyn HDM 175-2000-8 motors?
[02:00:21] <tjtr33> 2000 steps per rev via built in harmonic drive.
[02:00:46] <tjtr33> 9 wires, 1 common, 8 coils
[02:01:33] <andypugh> tjtr33: How high does the Hostmot2 table-based stuffs go?
[02:01:34] <Jymmm> On sale this week for $20, I picked one up, I really like it http://www.frys.com/product/7856949?site=sa:adpages%20page:P27_FRI%20date:032114
[02:01:42] <Jymmm> pcw_home: ^^^
[02:01:56] <tjtr33> ooh thats an idea, thx andypugh !
[02:02:11] <tjtr33> they're off AGIe wedm's, nice stuffe
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[02:03:05] <andypugh> I should know the answer to my own question, I added it to the LinuxCNC drivers only recently :-)
[02:04:18] * Jymmm hands andypugh a pinto
[02:04:20] <Jymmm> pint
[02:05:02] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_ Yeah I know man I cannot imagine how anyone who has ever worked with a ballscrew could say that it would hold it up LOL...
[02:05:53] <R2E4_> Apparantly they haven't.
[02:06:19] <R2E4_> I have a snubber on the brake, is there an issue if I put one across each contact also?
[02:06:27] <tjtr33> andypugh, heres another pint, could you tell me how many phases Hostmot2 could handle with the tables? (LUTs i suppose )
[02:06:55] <tjtr33> or where to browser the source for this new driver
[02:07:05] <XXCoder> so ballscrew cannot hold router head up on Z axis? or am I misreading
[02:07:08] <skunkworks> PetefromTn_: the k&t has roller bearing ways also - we found out hauling them - if you tip the table too far - it start to move..
[02:07:37] <andypugh> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commit;h=ac5345e61e2dba5b7fe367907e454326d15779ce
[02:07:54] <andypugh> It might be easier to mod the software stepgen.
[02:07:58] <R2E4_> thats mass too, how would you stop it if it started moving?
[02:08:05] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks Yeah man it does not take much to make it move and once it starts the weight of these parts will ensure they keep moving LOL..
[02:08:48] <PetefromTn_> When I moved my mill here I used some large chunks of wood to lock the table in position and then had the head down on blocks on the table top.
[02:09:10] <tjtr33> thx andypugh
[02:09:44] <skunkworks> the ends of the ball screws had hex nuts for manually moving the axis - we just tied them off with box-end wrenches.
[02:10:00] <PetefromTn_> really that is interesting...
[02:10:10] <andypugh> My feeling is that it goes up to 6. So you are probably looking at extending the software stepgen (probably not difficult)
[02:10:24] <skunkworks> 'we' as in dad - I was pretty young then...
[02:11:16] <tjtr33> andypugh, yes 6 io pins, 16 stages, ok will look at stepgen,
[02:11:57] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_ My new Teco motors came with a wired up setup that included its own relay that had built in snubbers but you would have to ask PCW if you needed snubbers on that 90 volt setup or what.
[02:13:33] <R2E4_> Yeah, he said on the brake or across the contacts. I put them on the brake and across the contacts to be sure.
[02:13:39] <R2E4_> aboput ready to test it.
[02:14:17] <tjtr33> R2E4_, i meant to tell you, i think a reverse diode goes across the brake coil ( clamps reverse spikes to ground ), but a snubber ( contact protector) goes across the relay contacts. run that past pcw if you can
[02:15:00] <PetefromTn_> So apparently you were able to release the brake then if the head fell right?
[02:16:30] <R2E4_> no when I released the brake the drive was enabled so it didnt fall. I was able to jog it after I dropped the P cause it was jumping (oscilating). When I hit e-stop, it dropped cause the drive was not enabled and the brake didnt engage cause there was still 90vdc on it for somereason.
[02:17:22] <PetefromTn_> aah that sucks.. glad you had it locked down with blocks then huh hehe
[02:17:27] <R2E4_> Thats what I am working on now.
[02:17:55] <PetefromTn_> It is pretty scary tweaking the PID on the Z at least it was for me...
[02:18:04] <R2E4_> yeah, it didnt drop far, just 2 inches and not fast on the block or wood.
[02:18:36] <PetefromTn_> actually yeah it kinda starts slow and then accelerates...
[02:18:54] <R2E4_> The X and Y is set to 100 now, and they are ok untill I get to tuning. I put the Z to 100 and it didnt like it at all.
[02:19:12] <PetefromTn_> no surprise there..
[02:19:23] <R2E4_> I dropped the Z P to 50 and it seems ok, doesnt ocilate
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[02:20:53] <PetefromTn_> I STILL need to tune my Z further than it is now..
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[02:21:09] <PetefromTn_> My X and Y work good tho and haul ass...
[02:21:10] <R2E4_> What is yours set at?
[02:21:24] <PetefromTn_> Aw hell man I don't remember..
[02:21:39] <PetefromTn_> I sent you my hal file it should be in there somewhere I think..
[02:21:46] <R2E4_> Mine are hunting .0001 +-1
[02:22:09] <R2E4_> ITs in the ini file, not the hal
[02:22:52] <PetefromTn_> I think that is kinda normal.... My Z does that too but like I said it needs more tuning.
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[02:25:23] <PetefromTn_> We just kinda did like that page JT posted starting with the P and working up from there...
[02:25:33] <R2E4_> Heres a question, I have contacts out for drive ready. I am reading in the book and it says that this signal is sent to the system when a servo is ready for operation. Apply brakes to an axis if necessary. Should I be using this as another contact safety?
[02:26:19] <R2E4_> How far did you jump each time? These servos are freaking powerfull, I dont want the axis to jump off the machine....lol
[02:26:41] <R2E4_> 20 on the P until it Ocillated?
[02:26:43] <PetefromTn_> single digits as I recall..
[02:27:03] <R2E4_> What did you start out at? Certainl;y not 1
[02:27:15] <skunkworks> ours are 40a 200v servos... 8kw
[02:27:19] <PetefromTn_> I am not out in the shop now so I cannot remember offhand..
[02:27:39] <PetefromTn_> skunkworks No shit those are monsters LOL... Mine are only 1kw.
[02:27:54] <skunkworks> don't you have the other axis's running? start with those settings?
[02:28:19] <PetefromTn_> My Z was quite different from the X and Y as I recall...
[02:28:27] <PetefromTn_> Even with the same basic motor on it.
[02:28:36] <R2E4_> I did, and I thought the Z was going to fly off the machine....lol
[02:28:51] <R2E4_> The motor on my Z is bigger than the X and Y
[02:29:04] <PetefromTn_> usually is...
[02:29:43] <XXCoder> gonna lift whole thing up eh
[02:30:02] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_: Doesnt your driver handle the brake on its own?
[02:30:36] <PetefromTn_> yeah it does and the delay for turning off the servo is built into the drive as well.. he does not have that..
[02:31:04] <Connor_iPad> Oh. What driver is he using?
[02:31:20] <PetefromTn_> Fanuc I think... right?
[02:32:36] <R2E4_> sanyo-Denki for X Y and Z and Fanuc for spindle
[02:33:04] <Connor_iPad> Check manual and see if they support break.
[02:34:07] <R2E4_> They all have dynamicbraking and the Z has a spring engaged electromagnetic release type brake
[02:34:15] <R2E4_> 90vdc excitiong voltage
[02:34:38] <Connor_iPad> Link to manual?
[02:35:35] <R2E4_> its 35meg pon a slow server.
[02:36:36] <R2E4_> no, thats the schematics and logic, I dont have the manual online
[02:38:52] <Connor_iPad> Would think the drivers would have support for external break.
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[02:39:20] <Connor_iPad> What model number are the sanyo-Denki drivers?
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[02:42:56] <R2E4_> X and Y 27BA030FXTH1 and the Z is 27BA050FXTH2
[02:43:56] <R2E4_> Servosare X and Y 20BM090MXP42 and the Z is 20BM220MBP41
[02:44:44] <R2E4_> Well, it kind of work this time but with no delay, the Z dropped. I need a delay on it I think.
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[02:45:55] <R2E4_> The problem is the 7i77 disables and enables the drive automagically so I cannot tell it todelay until the brake is on.
[02:46:48] <PetefromTn_> huh? why?
[02:46:54] <Connor> looking for manual.
[02:47:09] <PetefromTn_> Does not your machine not enable the drives until you hit the servo on button in linuxCNC?
[02:47:17] <R2E4_> When you hit estop, the 7i77 disables the drives right away.
[02:47:53] <R2E4_> Theres a servo on button?
[02:48:22] <R2E4_> you mean the button next to the red E-stop button?
[02:48:24] <PetefromTn_> on my machine if I hit estop the servos are disengaged and the brake catches the head, it only drops a tiny bit..maybe a couple thou..
[02:48:28] <PetefromTn_> yeah.
[02:48:51] <andypugh> R2E4_: Pretty sure that is configurable.
[02:49:53] <PetefromTn_> My machine has a button that enables the servos via a relay that energizes the contactors providing power to the drives but they are not enabled with linuxCNC until you hit that on screen button system on I think it is called.
[02:50:23] <R2E4_> Same as mine.
[02:50:25] <PetefromTn_> They just sit there and do nothing but hold position until I hit the system on button and then I have control.
[02:50:37] <R2E4_> andypugh: I washoping I would hear that.... :-)
[02:51:22] <R2E4_> wait, when you powerup, your drives are enabledbefore you hit the power on button?
[02:51:36] <andypugh> 7i77 has (IIRC) two enables. One vaguely for the spindle and one vaguely for the axes. I say vaguely, because it depends on what you connect where....
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[02:53:01] <R2E4_> I only see one enable per axis
[02:53:35] <R2E4_> well, my test with putting snubbers on contacts as well as brake was a fail. Upped the voltage to 140 volts....
[02:53:45] <R2E4_> I'll be removing them from the contacts.
[02:55:13] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: your drives are enabled before you hit the power on button?
[02:55:20] <PetefromTn_> no.
[02:55:27] <PetefromTn_> They are just powered up..
[02:55:36] <R2E4_> yeah ok.
[02:56:02] <PetefromTn_> When I hit estop not only is the system shut down but power is removed from the drive side of the drives....
[02:56:24] <R2E4_> yes, thats what mine is doing.
[02:56:27] <PetefromTn_> My drives have two power inputs one for logic control and the other to power the motors. I remove the latter..
[02:56:52] <R2E4_> but there is no delay so my Z drops untiul the brake is released.
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[02:57:18] <PetefromTn_> When that happens the logic side continues to track the position and the encoders are not lost so I can just release estop and still maintain position.
[02:57:26] <PetefromTn_> Mine too like I just said.
[02:57:50] <PetefromTn_> It is only a fraction of a second tho and the head only moves a couple thousandths.. I know I tested it.
[02:58:28] <R2E4_> Mine dropped 1inch.
[02:59:01] <PetefromTn_> The brake is only disengaged when there is power to the motor and when you remove power with the control NOT in an estop condition the delay built into the drives holds the drives until the brake engages via the delay timing.
[02:59:20] <PetefromTn_> In an estop it just immediately adds the brake but it is not instantaneous.
[02:59:41] <PetefromTn_> Damn that sucks 1" could really screw some stuff up in an estop emergency.
[03:00:01] <R2E4_> Mine has no delay, andthe residual voltage is holding it longer I think.
[03:00:33] <Connor_iPad> That makes no sense.
[03:01:02] <PetefromTn_> actually it does because my machine was setup that way from the factory. It had a special relay with built in timer.
[03:01:10] <Connor_iPad> If you cut power to the relay coil. It should break immediatly b
[03:01:23] <CaptHindsight> http://imagebin.org/300939 new toy, 89 year old machinist cleaning out his shop... going back tomorrow with a trailer
[03:01:25] <R2E4_> it does.
[03:01:43] <PetefromTn_> thats the problem LOL.
[03:01:45] <Connor_iPad> The realay has a timer?
[03:02:01] <PetefromTn_> yeah the old one did...
[03:03:03] <R2E4_> Mine hasno timer, but it wouldnt matter cause LinuxCNC disables the drive right away, and until the brake grasps, the Z drops.
[03:03:40] <Connor_iPad> But the relay should cut out at the same time.
[03:03:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah but you will STILL need a timer for normal on and off operations..
[03:04:00] <R2E4_> It does cut out at the same time
[03:04:40] <andypugh> I am sure that this can be configured
[03:05:05] <R2E4_> whenyou poweroff, or hit e-stop it disables your drive. So What does a timer have to do with it?
[03:05:06] <PetefromTn_> andypugh I would think so but NOT in an estop situation.
[03:05:47] <andypugh> Depends on how you wire the e-stop
[03:05:56] <PetefromTn_> it would hold power until the brake enables....
[03:06:17] <PetefromTn_> or maybe I am not understanding your system correctly.
[03:06:34] <pcw_home> what a bout the Z dynamic brake?
[03:06:54] <pcw_home> Il bet it depends on that partially
[03:08:05] <R2E4_> hmmmm.
[03:09:12] <PetefromTn_> http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopic=25462 Read this thread.
[03:10:04] <XXCoder> I wonder how easy it is to melt alum. If easy enough might make cnc parts that way lol
[03:10:10] <R2E4_> The dynamic brake contactors get energized upon =applying power to the machine
[03:10:12] <XXCoder> I have source of lot of soda cans.
[03:11:16] <Tom_itx> your better off melting transmission bell housings and aluminum heads
[03:11:51] <PetefromTn_> that safety relay they are talking about was in the original control on my machine, I sold it because I did not need it with the built in brake of the Z motor I bought.
[03:11:54] <Tom_itx> i know a dude doing it
[03:11:54] <XXCoder> I don't think I own "better" but yeah but then I has no source of those.
[03:12:40] <andypugh> Interesting thing mentioned at work today, moving from aluminium to steel pistons in engines (not cast-iron, actual steel)
[03:12:44] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: moo!
[03:13:00] <Connor_iPad> ?
[03:13:13] <XXCoder> andy I bet once titanium gets a cheap way like alum, pistons would be titanium.
[03:13:16] <pcw_home> if the dynamic brake is on, Z should just crawl if released
[03:13:17] <XXCoder> very light and strong
[03:13:28] <Tom_itx> andypugh why?
[03:13:50] <andypugh> They don't melt
[03:13:57] <Tom_itx> they are heavier
[03:15:01] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rih84vg3Frk
[03:15:16] <R2E4_> I just checked and the dynamic brake contactors are energizing
[03:15:42] <andypugh> http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1211dp_aluminum_vs_steel_diesel_engine_pistons/
[03:16:03] <pcw_home> hmm how long does it take the brake to grab
[03:16:07] <pcw_home> ?
[03:17:03] <XXCoder> andy interesting read
[03:17:08] <R2E4_> IT stopped right at the sametime it hit the block, so I dont know if the block stopped it or what, but that was about an inch.
[03:17:29] <Tom_itx> i was looking at a set of my bud's pistons the other day. they use 2 different types of anodizing one them
[03:17:32] <PetefromTn_> jeez that sucks..
[03:17:47] <andypugh> This link from there is interesting too: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1204dp_mahle_unbreakable_pistons_piston_of_the_future/ is an exotic steel piston lighter than aluminium
[03:18:43] <R2E4_> That article says to use servo drive ready contact, in series with the relay for the brake. but it also says it has a timer on it.
[03:18:52] <PetefromTn_> How does the dynamic braking work if you remove power to the drives?
[03:19:38] <R2E4_> big ass resistors wired into motor wires I think
[03:20:13] <PetefromTn_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CINCINNATI-MILACRON-ARROW-750-CNC-TELEMECANIQUE-PREVENTA-GSK3LB-SAFETY-RELAY-/161194220956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2587ec9d9c
[03:20:15] <XXCoder> interesting yep andy
[03:20:23] <PetefromTn_> This is the safety relay my machine had in it..
[03:20:32] <R2E4_> I didnt change that setupo. Left it the way it was and energized them upon startup, as it shows in the schematics.
[03:20:50] <pcw_home> maybe the brake is faulty?
[03:21:30] <pcw_home> seems like it should grab in a fraction of a second
[03:22:11] <R2E4_> I'll drop the wood a bit more and see how far it drops before it grabs.
[03:22:40] <R2E4_> I'll just raise the Z
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[03:23:23] <Connor_iPad> I don't think your break is catching.
[03:24:12] <pcw_home> your brake is broke
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[03:25:10] <PetefromTn_> I dunno man like I said mine drops just a couple thousandths of an inch upon estop which completely removes power from the drive side.
[03:25:15] <R2E4_> It holds when there is no power.
[03:26:06] <PetefromTn_> when I hit system off button there is a click and the head does not move because the timing built into the drive holds the head somehow until the brake is applied. then the servos are turned off.
[03:26:19] <R2E4_> Is Skunkworks around? Hehas a big ass vertical axis.
[03:26:42] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is probably counterweighted if it is...
[03:27:01] <PetefromTn_> Big ass I mean LOL
[03:27:21] <R2E4_> How doesthat work.Your using mesa 7i77 right? ENA gets removed, how is it hoilding?
[03:27:47] <andypugh> Isn't ENA wired in the HAL? You could insert a delay
[03:27:56] <R2E4_> When you turn off, the 7i77 removes ENA,
[03:28:00] <PetefromTn_> yeah mesa 5i25/7i77.. like I said that is built into my drives.
[03:28:31] <R2E4_> No ENA just happens, nothing I had to add in HAL.
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[03:28:40] <PetefromTn_> the drives hold power without movement and apply the brake for a certain number of milliseconds.
[03:29:33] <R2E4_> So how does that differ from hitting e-stop? Do you have an extra input into your drives for e-stop?
[03:29:41] <PetefromTn_> I would be surprised if you could not wire it all into the hal and set it up to energize the brake before the servo enable signal is removed.
[03:29:43] <andypugh> R2E4_: Pastebin the HAL file?
[03:30:38] <PetefromTn_> It IS different from estop. In estop the power is removed from the drive and the head falls but the brake is also depowered so it locks down. The head only falls a couple thousandths...
[03:30:41] <R2E4_> ok, let me get it out of the makchine
[03:31:53] <R2E4_> Thats what I dont understand. How is it different from e-stop? ENA into the drive wether it is e-stop or power off
[03:32:14] <R2E4_> ether one doesthe same thing.
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[03:33:14] <PetefromTn_> no not really. Enable into the drive removed just actuates the built in brake system built into the drive which activates the brake a couple milliseconds before it removes power from the motor so the head does not move.
[03:33:55] <PetefromTn_> Estop kills power to both the brake and the drive so it cannot do that so it falls but the brake on mine is apparently quicker than yours because it only falls a tiny bit.
[03:34:08] <XXCoder> using kiln https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU0ThM8ljAY
[03:34:45] <R2E4_> so you have two inputs into your drive?
[03:35:44] <PetefromTn_> yeah the drive never actually goes off unless you throw the main switch on the back of the machine. In Estop only the motor power side loses voltage and the logic side is still powered up.
[03:36:58] <PetefromTn_> I could have set it up so neither loses power and the estop would be entirely logic based but I don't like that when I hit estop I want everything to stop and not rely on a computer or chip to determine that.
[03:37:28] <R2E4_> So what inputs do you have into your drive?
[03:37:36] <R2E4_> Hal file.... http://pastebin.com/Fw8e7w36
[03:37:38] <PetefromTn_> None of this unfortunately will help you as your drives are different than mine.
[03:38:10] <PetefromTn_> You basically need to setup some kind circuit like they were talking about in that article I posted.
[03:38:13] <sabotender> ugh this makes me upset! no parallel port yet I need one!
[03:38:15] <sabotender> lawl
[03:38:17] <sabotender> moo
[03:38:41] <R2E4_> custom Hal file http://pastebin.com/bHL9aEkz
[03:38:43] <PetefromTn_> Do you see some kinda safety relay in there somewhere.
[03:39:13] <R2E4_> I have a relay out for drive ready
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[03:39:31] <R2E4_> and drive enable in
[03:41:00] <andypugh> R2E4_: Line 61 in your first pastebin is were the magic happens.
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[03:41:48] <andypugh> You could insert a timedelay in that net
[03:42:44] <PetefromTn_> wouldn't it be line 165?
[03:43:34] <PetefromTn_> or whichever one does the same thing for the Z axis?
[03:43:45] <andypugh> Not directly.
[03:44:35] <andypugh> All the axis-enables switch at the same time, and X is being used to turn on the 7i77 analog outputs.
[03:46:08] <R2E4_> So they all would be delayed when e-stop or power off.
[03:46:20] <PetefromTn_> I guess in Estop none of that matters but having it work for regular enable and disable of the system without head falling would be nice...
[03:47:01] <PetefromTn_> when you hit estop on your machine does the Z drive lose power entirely or what?
[03:48:01] <R2E4_> no it doesnt lose a;ll power, it disables the drive.
[03:48:58] <PetefromTn_> directly or because linuxCNC no longer has control losing the enable signal?
[03:49:19] <R2E4_> I have enable in on my drive.
[03:49:27] <pcw_home> how long ( in seconds) does it take for the brake to stop motion?
[03:50:23] <R2E4_> with the block.... 1 inch...lol, I havent had the nerve to drop the jack and see.
[03:50:41] <R2E4_> I'll try it.
[03:50:57] <pcw_home> I played around with a Fanuc robot motor with a brake and it seems to be in the 1/20 of a second region
[03:51:33] <PetefromTn_> It is possible the brake is not engaging and it just stopped on the wood block.
[03:51:59] <pcw_home> so maybe a wiring or component fault
[03:52:51] <R2E4_> I hear the solenoid engage
[03:53:34] <pcw_home> a fault that caused the brake to be shorted when disengaged would cause very slow engagement (due to slow collapse of the magnetic field)
[03:55:53] <R2E4_> 1 inch and it stops
[03:56:35] <R2E4_> maybe a bit less, but the brake stopped it dead.
[03:57:02] <PetefromTn_> so maybe pete is right about a wiring issue...
[03:57:23] <PetefromTn_> slowing the thing down, it should fire almost immediately.
[03:58:13] <Connor_iPad> When do you hear the solenoid fire?
[03:58:50] <XXCoder> Just curious - issue is on cnc mill right? (not trying to fugure, just curious)
[03:58:53] <PetefromTn_> if it fell an inch it musta been close to a second or so time delay you should have been able to hear that.
[03:59:21] <PetefromTn_> perhaps more/
[03:59:24] <R2E4_> I'll check, and I'll raise the Z and see how far it drops
[03:59:38] <R2E4_> Noit moire than a second.
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[04:00:41] <XXCoder> pete is his machine a cnc mill?
[04:00:53] <Connor_iPad> Yes. It is.
[04:01:03] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is a large kickass Hitachie seiki VMC40.
[04:01:11] <PetefromTn_> Hitachi
[04:01:16] <XXCoder> ok. is it possible for cnc router to have similiar problem at all? lol
[04:01:34] <PetefromTn_> I suppose yeah any vertical axis with a servo could...
[04:01:45] <Connor_iPad> Stepper too.
[04:01:52] <tjtr33> R2E4_, you dont need to let it fall at all, just energize & de-energize without linuxcnc, without servo, and see if you can turn or not.
[04:01:53] <tjtr33> that is a way to check to brake by itself.
[04:01:54] <andypugh> On my machine the knee drops on power-off. But it's only a little knee, and that increases tool clearance, so I am unconcernerd.
[04:01:54] <XXCoder> interesting. ok
[04:02:00] <PetefromTn_> I thought steppers lock down when not powered>
[04:02:08] <Gamma_X> no
[04:02:14] <tjtr33> just a power suppl and a pair of jumpers
[04:02:45] <Connor_iPad> Nope. Steppers don't break either.
[04:02:47] <R2E4_> YEs but they are so small and usually the Z is bnot heavy enough to drop. My cnc router Z doesnt drop with no power.
[04:02:49] <andypugh> They have a detente torque, though, and that may or may not be enough to hold the head up
[04:03:04] <Connor_iPad> Mine would if I used ball screws.
[04:03:22] <andypugh> If a servo-system doesn't drop, and there is no brake, it probably means something is mechanically wrong.
[04:03:25] <R2E4_> ok, about a half a second and IT dropped .125 about\
[04:03:52] <PetefromTn_> this is on estop?
[04:04:01] <tjtr33> of course do the tests on top of wood block
[04:04:08] <R2E4_> estop or power off, its the same input
[04:04:27] <andypugh> It doesn't have to be.
[04:04:33] <R2E4_> I see what your saying, but its 90vdc....
[04:04:58] <R2E4_> oooohhh!!!! Now were getting somewhere.
[04:04:58] <PetefromTn_> it sounds like if it works the same way on estop or system off then Andypughs idea may just fix your problems...
[04:05:01] <andypugh> e-stop ought to be all-hardware, and just tell LinuxCNC that you hit the big red buton.
[04:05:29] <PetefromTn_> andypugh Exactly that is what I think...
[04:05:38] <andypugh> Machine-off can be a controlled sequence
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[04:06:37] <PetefromTn_> My estop circuit holds open a relay that controls the contactors that power the axis drives. hit estop and the whole show shuts down...
[04:06:50] <R2E4_> So on machine off, apply brake, then 2 seconds later disable drive
[04:07:07] <PetefromTn_> more like half second...
[04:07:10] <andypugh> As an example, when I turn my machine off, I disable power-on until the DC bus caps have discharged. Otherwise relays welds and resistors explode.
[04:08:26] <PetefromTn_> Estop really should be an emergency power removal not just a servo disable signal...
[04:08:37] <R2E4_> HAL is that done....?
[04:08:41] <R2E4_> hehe
[04:08:55] <andypugh> You might not have realised that resistors can explode, but this one punched through the PSU case: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/PSU#5930254317952931618
[04:10:20] <R2E4_> damn.
[04:10:32] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: your estop removes power from your drives?
[04:10:42] <andypugh> More pictures if you click the arrows
[04:11:02] <Connor_iPad> Limit switches do too
[04:11:16] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I said that a couple times now LOL... it removes power from the motor drive side of the drives.
[04:11:45] <R2E4_> So your drives coast to a stop?
[04:11:45] <R2E4_> on an e-stop?
[04:11:48] <PetefromTn_> Connor_iPad yeah man that is true hitting a physical limit in my machine is essentially hitting the estop as they are all wired together.
[04:12:07] <andypugh> I can't decide if limits should de-power the drives, or link to software.
[04:12:17] <PetefromTn_> if they were moving then yeah....
[04:12:41] <andypugh> Or something in between.
[04:13:11] <andypugh> It seems that coasting to a halt through the switches might be bad in its own way.
[04:13:18] <PetefromTn_> I have a limit override switch that I press to allow me to repower the drives to jog off the limits. Had to use it once when I FORGOT to home the machine and screwed up...
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[04:15:06] <PetefromTn_> I just don't trust software to keep the machine from destroying itself. If it coasts after a rapid into the stops that is better than it NOT working somehow and driving against the stops until you can get back there and turn off the mains...
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[04:16:58] <PetefromTn_> Besides if the machine is setup properly and you are homed out you should NEVER hit a limit.
[04:17:55] <R2E4_> So how are you homing if you have your limit switches externally wiredto power of drive?
[04:18:26] <PetefromTn_> just home the machine. Homes and limits are two seperate things.
[04:18:50] <R2E4_> andypugh: you have some bedtime reading linksonhow to control the machine-is-off routine?
[04:19:09] <R2E4_> Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. relaly!!
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[04:19:22] <andypugh> Have you read the HAL docs?
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[04:20:00] <R2E4_> I have printed al;l the manual;s and read them daily.
[04:20:16] <andypugh> If you are clear on HAL, then all you need might be: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/timedelay.9.html
[04:20:57] <PetefromTn_> I would reconsider your logic estop setup even if you do not use limits in the circuit.
[04:21:13] <R2E4_> Didnt say I was clear on HAL, I am still learning. lol
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[04:22:13] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_: Need to figure out how to setup your toolchanger fwd backward to only advance 1 tool per button press.
[04:22:33] <PetefromTn_> sure do man how do we do it LOL?
[04:22:52] <Connor_iPad> Not sure. :)
[04:23:07] <PetefromTn_> Maybe lee would know?
[04:23:15] <R2E4_> PetefromTn_: you have an index on your toolchanger?
[04:23:21] <PetefromTn_> perhaps the answer is in his Hal file he sent..
[04:24:05] <PetefromTn_> The toolchanger does have an index but it is a once per pocket to tell the carousel motor when to stop turning the geneva mechanism at each pocket.
[04:24:09] <Connor_iPad> andypugh: We push button and it kicks off the motor. He has a per tool sensor. It'll be on when we push button. And we need to stop motor when it toggle off and back on.
[04:24:28] <PetefromTn_> there is no home index or tool pocket one index.
[04:24:51] <andypugh> Sorry guys, too late for me to think.
[04:25:05] <PetefromTn_> nite andy.
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[04:25:27] <R2E4_> nite
[04:25:35] <R2E4_> thanks again
[04:26:02] <PetefromTn_> R2E4_ You going ta bed too?
[04:26:10] <R2E4_> not yet.
[04:26:15] <PetefromTn_> okay.
[04:26:28] <R2E4_> I'm moving my Z inches at a time....lol
[04:26:54] <R2E4_> ITs amazing how smooth it is compared to how big it is.
[04:27:10] <PetefromTn_> I bet your circuit wiring has something to do with the brake delay.
[04:27:29] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is amazing how fast and smooth these large machines can be huh.
[04:27:34] <R2E4_> I'm going to check it, I dont think sothough,
[04:27:59] <R2E4_> remove your delay and I bit yours does the same thing.
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[04:28:28] <PetefromTn_> they have a Haas VF8 at that place I was working and it has something like 40x64 travels on it table is freakin huge.
[04:28:29] <R2E4_> I have to figure out how to do the delay now in HAL. This could take a month orso....hehe
[04:29:19] <R2E4_> yeah, thats big. My machine has an option for pallet changer. I seen those, and they are cool, but huge.
[04:29:20] <PetefromTn_> It has stairs going up to the controls and they are often crawling around inside it to setup parts like it is a house in there LOL...
[04:29:57] <R2E4_> haha, I woul;dnt go in there unl;ess power was off....lol
[04:30:17] <PetefromTn_> They just finished machining some large 3" thick UHMW plastic plates they cut into disks that were over 3foot across...
[04:30:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah I know it is creepy...
[04:30:57] <R2E4_> So, I have the spindle to do and the toolchanger.
[04:31:12] <PetefromTn_> It has a large cantilevered crane on it that you can help load parts into the machine with...
[04:31:36] <PetefromTn_> hey me too LOL...
[04:33:27] <R2E4_> oh, and my coolant tank to fiox.
[04:33:30] <R2E4_> fix
[04:33:45] <PetefromTn_> yeah that is tons of fun LOL...NOT!
[04:34:39] <R2E4_> IT is dropping about .25 inch.
[04:35:03] <PetefromTn_> Ya know what would be cool to build is a programmable coolant nozzle like they have on the Haas machines... that would be sweet.
[04:35:46] <R2E4_> Mine has a nozzle that moves.
[04:36:00] <PetefromTn_> oh nice how does it work?
[04:36:27] <R2E4_> They disconnected it, so I thinkit doesnt. I will fix it though.
[04:36:42] <R2E4_> Buttons to rotate it left and right.
[04:37:23] <R2E4_> I have the one that moves mounted on the Z and 5 fixed. IT moves alot of coolant
[04:38:29] <PetefromTn_> The Haas Programmable coolant nozzle setup comes off the right side of the head and has like twenty positions or something that you program for each cutter length. It only goes up and down not left or right.
[04:39:12] <PetefromTn_> so when you call that cutter and the unit is on it automatically directs the coolant to the tool tip or wheverever you set it.
[04:39:23] <R2E4_> Thats cool
[04:40:17] <PetefromTn_> yeah it is pretty sweet and it has a brass nozzle that really sprays some fluid somehow.
[04:40:40] <PetefromTn_> My machine has a dual nozzle setup that works pretty well but for longer tools I gotta direct it.
[04:41:24] <PetefromTn_> I will probably design and build a half round setup like the fadal machines have and add another nozzle or two with smaller orifices to control streams more directly for varying height cutters.
[04:41:39] <R2E4_> https://www.facebook.com/RobbieBevins
[04:41:55] <R2E4_> thats my facebook page I put the coolant video on it
[04:44:10] <PetefromTn_> interesting...so which one can you control electronically?
[04:44:27] <R2E4_> the one onthe head
[04:45:30] <R2E4_> I'm getting excited. I am getting real close
[04:46:01] <R2E4_> I have tuniong on each axis to do and program homing.
[04:46:16] <R2E4_> Each step I have to read and figure out how to do it.
[04:46:32] <R2E4_> ITs amazing how these guys here klnows this stuff as good as they do.
[04:47:26] <PetefromTn_> yeah man wish I did LOL...
[04:47:38] <PetefromTn_> The toolchanger is gonna be the most challenging for me I think.
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[04:49:33] <R2E4_> Yeah, I love ladder logic though. I used to program plc's for door interlocks and stuff.
[04:50:21] <PetefromTn_> I am kinda surprised that there are not already several people with working umbrella style changers that have done it before us. I mean with a Z movement in there tooo.. that is a very common setup for machining centers.
[04:50:42] <PetefromTn_> unfortunately we are not gonna be using ladder logic.
[04:52:06] <Connor> PetefromTn_: I had a thought.. Maybe we use a "encoder" with the tool pocket switch..
[04:52:19] <PetefromTn_> Well it's past my bedtime folks talk tomorrow. Good luck R2E4...
[04:52:19] <Connor> maybe we can get it to keep track of the counts for us...
[04:52:25] <PetefromTn_> huh?
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[04:52:43] <r2e4_1\> oops, got cut off
[04:52:46] <Connor> use the pocket switch as encoder pulse.. and feed it into encoder hal component.
[04:52:57] <PetefromTn_> lemme switch to my phone so I can get in bed hang on a sec...
[04:53:01] <r2e4_1\> Thanks Conner for helping out.
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[05:00:44] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay back again
[05:01:13] <zeeshan> got a bigger drill press
[05:01:13] <zeeshan> :D
[05:01:15] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/86307D91-3469-4E08-85B7-26471F0058BB_zpsprgmamcc.jpg
[05:01:24] <PetefromTn_Andro> Now what about an encoder?
[05:01:24] <zeeshan> 360lb vs my old drill press which was 120lb
[05:01:35] <zeeshan> drilled a 1" hole with it no problem
[05:02:10] <Connor_iPad> Use prod sensor as encoder input
[05:02:50] <PetefromTn_Andro> Prox
[05:02:52] <Connor_iPad> Prox sensor
[05:03:38] <PetefromTn_Andro> Honestly just a regular input can be setup the same way no?
[05:04:07] <Connor_iPad> Yea. Hal has a encoder input.
[05:04:25] <PetefromTn_Andro> If not we still have the fifth axis available.
[05:06:42] <r2e4_1\> WOW: You need long drill bits.
[05:07:57] <r2e4_1\> pin 16,17,18 and 19 are encoder inputs also.
[05:08:03] <r2e4_1\> on your 7i77
[05:08:04] <zeeshan> i posted the wrong pic r2e4_1\
[05:08:05] <zeeshan> lol
[05:08:18] <zeeshan> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/628E2EE7-1FCF-402B-940C-3B3A6E424244_zpsbr4nycb0.jpg
[05:08:21] <zeeshan> thats the new drill press
[05:08:22] <zeeshan> :D
[05:08:27] <zeeshan> the other one was the old one
[05:08:31] <PetefromTn_Andro> We probably need to also figure out how Hal sees the proxy sensor signal IE does it have a narrow field or do we trigger it on the upslope or downslope and in which direction of rotation or am I making it far too complicated ...
[05:08:46] <zeeshan> the reason the table was so low on the old one was cause i was drilling holes in a large enclosure
[05:08:46] <zeeshan> lol
[05:08:57] <XXCoder> this one any good? https://www.inventables.com/technologies/desktop-cnc-mill-kit-shapeoko-2
[05:09:46] <zeeshan> my friend finally helped me put my air dryer http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p252/turbozee84/A5966CDC-9305-4496-B63E-8B3550D7142A_zpszjf8nv9q.jpg
[05:09:47] <zeeshan> on the shelf
[05:09:49] <zeeshan> thing is like 200lb
[05:10:06] <zeeshan> i need to gain some weight
[05:10:12] <zeeshan> so i can lift this stuff on my own!
[05:11:20] <r2e4_1\> oPetefromTn_Andro: I am using prox sensors for my tool changer, when I went to go look at themtrigger as turret was rotating and I couldnt see it change on screen. But it was changing when I looked at them in hal scope
[05:11:28] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_Andro: Rising edge.
[05:12:34] <PetefromTn_Andro> Okay so your Hal inputs really could care less just saw the input apparently.
[05:12:49] <zeeshan> why have you been working on your tool changer for years
[05:12:50] <zeeshan> !
[05:12:50] <zeeshan> :P
[05:13:18] <PetefromTn_Andro> Connor man I am tired as hell gonna hit the sack can we chat about this tomorrow man?
[05:13:24] <Connor_iPad> Yup.
[05:13:29] <Connor_iPad> That's cool
[05:14:02] <PetefromTn_Andro> Great nite all...
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[05:52:57] <sabotender> moo
[05:53:13] <XXCoder> Milk
[05:53:24] <sabotender> yay
[05:56:04] <XXCoder> lol https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6359350016/hC453EB4F/
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[07:40:52] <Deejay> moin
[07:50:47] <Jymmm> ug
[07:57:46] <Deejay> hi Jymmm
[07:57:55] <Jymmm> howdy
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[08:38:00] <archivist> rules for sneaking more machines into the shop http://users.xplornet.com/~jackson5/shed/rules.html
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[08:48:57] <fedbunt> hi
[08:52:35] <kengu> archivist: (:
[08:54:36] <archivist> I am single and dont need to follow those rules :)
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[09:01:45] <fedbunt> how I do linuxcnc x0 y0?
[09:02:32] <fedbunt> mach3 -> click zero x ,zero y
[09:04:18] <archivist> home the machine then touch off
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[09:12:17] <fedbunt> ok thanks
[09:12:36] <fedbunt> and how do home limits ?
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[09:43:30] <azcnc> bonjour /hey
[09:44:31] <azcnc> i have a brobleme with my cnc machine
[09:44:43] <azcnc> some one can help?
[09:45:23] <azcnc> camtech master z7
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[09:47:31] <azcnc> i use windows systeme, but i want to change it to linuxcnc
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[09:57:55] <archivist> azcnc, we dont know what your problems are till you ask better questions
[09:58:40] <azcnc> i have camtech router z7
[09:59:05] <archivist> you already said that
[09:59:20] <azcnc> i want to use soft to control it from ubuntu
[10:00:17] <azcnc> i use inkscape fordxf files
[10:00:31] <azcnc> i m looking for controller
[10:00:42] <azcnc> or simulator
[10:01:16] <Einar> azcnc: Start here --> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
[10:01:54] <Einar> You can then try it out without installing to your hard disk.
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[10:04:14] <azcnc> i install it in coputer
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[10:04:20] <azcnc> computer
[10:05:30] <miss0r1> I am wondering - is it possible to add a 'wait' function similar to the 'sleep' function in bash scripts? When I use M3 to spin my spindle, I want the cnc to wait 3 seconds for it to reach max speed before starting to cut. Can this be done?
[10:06:00] <archivist> there is a delay gcode
[10:06:21] <archivist> you can also wait for a pin spindle at speed
[10:07:54] <azcnc> this work any machine?
[10:07:59] <miss0r1> indeed - I don't have such a pin, I will have to use the 'delay'
[10:08:38] <archivist> azcnc, we cannot know all machines, but highly likely
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[10:48:11] <jthornton> miss0r1, G4
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[11:31:35] <KreAture> oooooh! My cnc rails are marked as shipped today!
[11:31:50] <KreAture> http://www.ebay.com/itm/301115860502
[11:31:58] <KreAture> I got em to put together this kit for me
[11:32:16] <KreAture> It has two of the longest screws instead of just one
[11:32:33] <KreAture> and it contains all the nut housings you need too
[11:32:45] <KreAture> normally nut housings are not included in the sets
[11:35:51] <Loetmichel> KreAture: that looks NICE
[11:35:57] <Loetmichel> ...but a bit overpriced
[11:36:37] <KreAture> not when I compared it against the other kits containing the blocks and nuts
[11:36:51] <KreAture> nor when I compared it with other sellers
[11:37:39] <KreAture> It does contain 2x1150mm, 1x750 and 1x350mm 1605 ballscrews as well as 4 ballnuts
[11:38:16] <KreAture> 2x1100mm, 2x700mm and 2x300mm SBR20's
[11:38:25] <KreAture> 4x nut housings
[11:38:46] <KreAture> 4x couplers for nema23 motors
[11:39:06] <KreAture> also full set of bearing blocks for the sbr20's
[11:39:10] <Loetmichel> i'ver read the ebay article
[11:39:20] <Loetmichel> right, everything in 20mm
[11:39:20] <KreAture> I made sure they included everything
[11:39:36] <Loetmichel> i would prefert 16mm for x and z
[11:39:42] <Loetmichel> but thats just for cost
[11:39:52] <KreAture> yeh I am sure a cheaper kit could be assembled
[11:39:56] <KreAture> I just wanted beefy
[11:39:57] <KreAture> hehe
[11:40:14] <KreAture> remember my machine design Loetmichel
[11:40:33] <KreAture> I am trying to design it so all SBR sets are working in compression with preloading
[11:40:45] <Loetmichel> the one out of extruded 8040?
[11:40:52] <KreAture> x rails point outwards from bed supported by bed between em
[11:40:55] <KreAture> yeh
[11:41:02] <KreAture> except it's 6030
[11:41:10] <Loetmichel> ah
[11:41:15] <KreAture> because that aligns with the predrilled holes in the sbr20 supports
[11:41:24] <Loetmichel> nice idea
[11:41:40] <Loetmichel> o dont like the extruded stiff because they arent straight
[11:41:44] <KreAture> It will give a bit of adjustment room on the rails too so I can get it all lined up
[11:41:53] <Loetmichel> i
[11:41:58] <Loetmichel> stuff
[11:42:14] <KreAture> I have a local supplier and the ones they deliver are manufactured on 6 meter lengths and are guaranteed straight
[11:42:14] <Loetmichel> most are slightly bent
[11:42:36] <KreAture> he told me they are bent duyring mfg due to the extrusion process and temperature differences in the die
[11:42:48] <Loetmichel> you have seen the big lilalinux machine i helped building?
[11:42:50] <KreAture> and that they go through a extra machine that makes sure they are straight
[11:42:56] <KreAture> yep!
[11:42:58] <KreAture> love it
[11:43:19] <Loetmichel> that has also 20mm rails
[11:43:28] <archivist> best is machined flat after too
[11:43:29] <KreAture> The company delivering my alu is called Rollco
[11:43:34] <Loetmichel> but has more than 4 times the area
[11:43:43] <KreAture> The rails they deliver are made in germany
[11:44:13] <Loetmichel> as a german i might say: that just means that they are more expensice, not necessarily more straight ;-)
[11:44:17] <KreAture> They precision cut to my order btw
[11:44:25] <archivist> pictures or it didnt happen :)
[11:44:36] <KreAture> :p
[11:44:49] <KreAture> they guarantee a very straight cut and cut length to 0.1mm
[11:45:08] <KreAture> I'd like better length accuracy though, but that's not gonna happen
[11:45:33] <KreAture> I've worked with optics at work so I know precision, but size matters
[11:46:12] <KreAture> This machine may get a socket set for mirrors and it's own room, and a lser
[11:46:13] <KreAture> hehe
[11:46:32] <KreAture> laser
[11:47:32] <archivist> optical testing can be fun/ a bore
[11:47:35] <KreAture> silly heavy machine for a laser though
[11:48:46] <Loetmichel> archivist:me?
[11:49:32] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205 <- only a small machine... 2400*1200*300mm travel ;-)
[11:49:33] <archivist> no
[11:50:00] <Loetmichel> too late ;-)
[11:52:44] <archivist> if KreAture has access to the optical tools he get his machine really square and flat
[11:53:23] <Loetmichel> archivist: i dont think that matters when you start building with extruded aluminium beams
[11:53:39] <Loetmichel> they are not meant to STAY straight anyways
[11:53:52] <Loetmichel> not with the precision we want to have ;)
[11:54:18] <archivist> depends if there is enough supporting metal
[11:54:50] <Loetmichel> if i wanted to make a sturdy and PRECISE gantry i would use steel tubes , weld them together, glow them a few days, and then mill/grind them over
[11:55:19] <Loetmichel> the important part is the "glow"
[11:55:23] <Loetmichel> to get the tension out
[11:55:46] <Loetmichel> extruded aluminium parts tend to warp BADLY when machined
[11:55:47] <archivist> anneal /normalise is the proper word
[11:56:18] <Loetmichel> isnt anneal for hardening?
[11:56:24] <archivist> no
[11:56:24] <Loetmichel> not for the opposite?
[11:56:37] <archivist> anneal removes stresses
[11:56:40] <Loetmichel> ah
[11:56:42] <Loetmichel> i see
[11:56:44] <Loetmichel> thx
[11:57:29] <archivist> google "annealing furnace" where you bring and object up to temp, hold, slowly cool
[11:57:39] <Loetmichel> i thought ammeal was the heating after shock cooling for adjusting the hardness
[11:57:55] <Loetmichel> anneal
[11:57:55] <archivist> that is tempering
[11:58:07] <archivist> harden and temper
[11:58:19] <Loetmichel> hm, seem i am still learning english ;-)
[11:58:29] <Loetmichel> s
[11:59:03] <archivist> most germans have very good english (better than me)
[12:00:05] <KreAture> 8020's calculator sais you are wrong Loetmichel
[12:00:34] <KreAture> also, mech guys at work said welding steel for a precise gantry doesn't work
[12:01:07] <KreAture> You can weld it, but you have to precision machine the faces after wards where you want to mount equipment if you want the equipment to be where you planned
[12:01:20] <KreAture> it expands and contracts as you thermal shock it during welding
[12:01:30] <KreAture> later steel also expands a lot with heat
[12:03:14] <KreAture> 10 degrees change in room would cause a 2 meter long gantry to increase in length by 0.32mm
[12:03:18] <jthornton> after welding you need to normalize the structure to release the stress from welding
[12:03:26] <KreAture> that too
[12:03:38] <KreAture> steel still expands
[12:03:57] <KreAture> alu too
[12:04:08] <KreAture> alu is worse though
[12:04:49] <archivist> cast iron in the old days would be placed outside in a yard to normalise for a year or two
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[12:12:52] <Loetmichel> KreAture: sure, you have to mill the surfaces that the rails are mounted to
[12:13:31] <Loetmichel> but an annealed steel frame wouldn bend like extruded aluminium does with every drilled hole
[12:15:20] <Loetmichel> archivist: right. best machine precision is when you get an 50 year old cast oron base from another machine and modify it to fit your needs
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[12:18:45] <archivist> as a kid I went to where the old man worked and the castings were all around the yard
[12:21:42] <Einar> Is it true they pissed on the castings to improve them, or was that just an excuse?
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[12:25:16] <archivist> a google tells me the term was season http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/seasoning-cast-iron-87355/
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[12:58:05] <KreAture> what drilled holes ?
[12:58:14] <KreAture> Loetmichel I will be drilling no holes
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[13:11:51] * archivist wonders how a scratch build can be done without drilling holes
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[13:28:17] <CaptHindsight> KreAture: over what temp change will you be operating the machine?
[13:28:33] <KreAture> 5c
[13:28:37] <KreAture> I hope
[13:29:23] <CaptHindsight> what tolerance are you expecting to hold (not cutting)?
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[13:32:53] <KreAture> no idea
[13:33:24] <KreAture> asI mentiond before though, if I can get holes drilled at 0.1mm accurate locations with about same toleranbce it would be very nice
[13:34:06] <CaptHindsight> are the holes for pins?
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[13:37:50] <CaptHindsight> unless you have a slight interference fit the bolts will have some play anyway
[13:38:05] <KreAture> CaptHindsight no holes are for bolting stuff
[13:40:20] <CaptHindsight> you're using ballscrews anyway
[13:40:36] <KreAture> yes
[13:40:57] <KreAture> heck of a lot better than using threaded rods
[13:41:00] <KreAture> lol
[13:41:05] <CaptHindsight> what most get wrong is using too light an extrusion or counting on them as a linear bearing
[13:41:19] <KreAture> yeh, sbr20 all the way
[13:41:29] <KreAture> extrusions are just to hold the stuff in place
[13:41:36] <CaptHindsight> and expecting few micron precision
[13:41:55] <KreAture> my current plan looks like this: http://kreature.org/projects/cnc/cnc2_12.png
[13:42:13] <KreAture> it will be boxed here and there but not drawn for ease of viewing
[13:42:20] <archivist> the rail makers expect your extrusion to hold their rails straight
[13:42:35] <KreAture> Been discussing the use of the profiles oni the sides but cut sheets are just too flexible in the y direction
[13:43:26] <KreAture> I have access to a laser micrometer I will be using in the end to level the bed
[13:43:37] <CaptHindsight> the rails for the Y-axis are positioned in a weak way
[13:43:43] <KreAture> it will allow me to read height data from entire bed vs a projected laser-beam
[13:43:53] <KreAture> duh
[13:43:57] <KreAture> I know CaptHindsight
[13:44:04] <KreAture> that is why it is considered a preliminary
[13:44:13] <KreAture> It was a discussion of tradeoffs
[13:44:20] <KreAture> overhang vs stiffness in mount
[13:44:46] <KreAture> I am playing with configurations that deliver the shortest overhang
[13:45:01] <KreAture> and you mean the z
[13:45:16] <KreAture> the y is fine
[13:45:43] <KreAture> u will have a extra beam between the two it's mounted to allowing compressive force from the z assy to preload it
[13:45:47] <KreAture> y
[13:46:07] <KreAture> can't make everything visible on such a drawing, then it obscures details
[13:46:46] <KreAture> I am still playing with different ways to do the z without loosing travel in y
[13:47:11] <KreAture> z is very short vs the x and y though
[13:47:17] <KreAture> so can take some unsupported spans
[13:47:49] <KreAture> The latest idea is to only support the z rails on top and bottom but making em fase outwards to left and right
[13:48:27] <KreAture> doing so would allow the z carriage to compress em
[13:48:38] <KreAture> but, the issue then becomes how wide does the z become
[13:48:39] <KreAture> lol
[13:49:08] <KreAture> I know ppl like the square stuff for the z as it is more compact
[13:49:11] <KreAture> I can see why
[13:49:44] <KreAture> all designs have tradeoffs
[13:49:55] <KreAture> I'm locked into using sbr20 all the way now
[13:50:07] <KreAture> trying to make the best of it
[13:51:20] <CaptHindsight> I was just wondering, let us know how it went
[13:51:26] <KreAture> hehe
[13:51:43] <KreAture> any other configurations I haven't tried though ?
[13:51:53] <KreAture> I mean, rails can be like on my pic
[13:52:01] <KreAture> but then again, the rails can be what moves right ?
[13:52:14] <KreAture> bearing blocks stay on the y
[13:52:43] <zeeshan> anyone know where to buy cheap leveling feet from?
[13:54:58] <jdh> mcmaster
[13:55:10] <jdh> have you finished your lathe?
[13:56:50] <zeeshan> no access to mcmaster here
[13:56:56] <zeeshan> unless i buy through my unviersity
[13:56:59] <zeeshan> which is a pain in the butt
[13:57:11] <zeeshan> jdh no: i have been buying tools and building steam engine at school
[13:57:18] <zeeshan> for the last month and a half
[13:57:24] <zeeshan> won't get more time to work on it till april 8th
[13:57:25] <zeeshan> ;p
[13:57:28] <KreAture> CaptHindsight if one used two screws and no rails, one could have the tool be where the screw has to be now
[13:57:32] <KreAture> reduces overhang
[13:57:39] <zeeshan> how about you?
[13:57:45] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section7/index.html
[13:58:04] <KreAture> oooh nice feet
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[13:58:33] <zeeshan> CaptHindsight: look expensive
[13:58:33] <zeeshan> ;p
[13:58:45] <zeeshan> i need like 20
[13:58:47] <zeeshan> =D
[13:58:50] <KreAture> oh right you said cheap
[13:58:53] <KreAture> ebay.com
[13:58:56] <jdh> make them
[13:59:07] <zeeshan> too much work to make
[13:59:12] <zeeshan> :P
[13:59:19] <KreAture> hey jd, any brilliant ideas for my z assy ?
[13:59:36] <zeeshan> jdh: actually not a bad idea.
[13:59:40] <jdh> sure.
[13:59:43] <zeeshan> when the lathe runs
[13:59:44] <zeeshan> i could make em
[13:59:45] <jdh> just none that areuseful
[13:59:48] <KreAture> hehe
[14:01:01] <zeeshan> jdh done your cnc? :P
[14:01:06] <CaptHindsight> zeeshan: how heavy is this lathe? 5000lb mounts are <$10
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[14:01:25] <zeeshan> lathe is like 1800lb
[14:01:25] <zeeshan> or 1500lb
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[14:01:31] <zeeshan> gr
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[14:01:43] <zeeshan> lathe is like 1500lb
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[14:01:47] <zeeshan> mill is like 2600lb
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[14:02:00] <zeeshan> drill press is 400lb
[14:02:05] <zeeshan> bead roller is 200lb
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[14:02:14] <CaptHindsight> http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section7/lpst/index.html
[14:02:17] <zeeshan> lathe needs 8 feet, mill needs 4 feet
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[14:02:25] <zeeshan> drioll press and bead roller need 4 feet each
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[14:02:37] <CaptHindsight> few $ ea
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[14:02:58] <zeeshan> oh
[14:03:03] <jdh> I have drawn up a motor mount for my X. I'll cut it tomorrow and see how well it goes.
[14:03:44] <jdh> ballscrew/nut will be on the headstock side of the crossslide
[14:03:51] <zeeshan> you got lazy
[14:03:52] <zeeshan> !
[14:04:08] <jdh> got tired of waiting for more perfect inspiration
[14:04:25] <zeeshan> its just easier i guess
[14:04:58] <jdh> only other option is on the other side. Not really any better
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[14:12:24] <KreAture> hehe
[14:15:02] <zeeshan> jdh
[14:15:11] <zeeshan> can you show me pics of x mounted ball screws
[14:15:14] <zeeshan> outside the cross slide
[14:15:24] <jdh> not until I mount it
[14:15:30] <zeeshan> isn't there shit online
[14:15:32] <zeeshan> what did you search for
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[14:40:03] <CaptHindsight> http://www.toolfetch.com/construction/saw-blades/metal-saw-blades/evolution-14bladest-14-x-66t-x-1-for-cutting-steel-max-rpm-1500.html anyone ever try the Evolution blades for cutting steel?
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[15:00:15] <XXCoder> archivist: interesting link on cast iron
[15:01:48] <archivist> :)
[15:04:32] <XXCoder> I guess I see why people like em. its bit excess for what I want though lol
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[15:08:02] <skroon> hi all
[15:08:49] <skroon> I just started to use cambam, and I would like to do 3D milling, i'm wondering though how to flip the model, and make sure it has the correct alignment
[15:09:03] <skroon> anyone in here using cambam for 3d milling?
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[15:10:21] <XXCoder> sorry, still pre-cnc myself
[15:10:27] <XXCoder> archivist: lol "Large marine turbine and gear castings were suspended from above, apprentices spent many hours banging on them with lengths of 4 x 4. Quite tuneful sometimes, when they'd get a good rhythm going ! "
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[15:19:06] <CaptHindsight> I was at an 89 year old machinists place yesterday, he was telling me about the magic tree stump and kids in the neighborhood that he used for straightening tubes he would machine into 20K rpm turbine shafts
[15:21:47] <archivist> straightening is a work of art
[15:22:18] <archivist> sometimes win, sometimes snap
[15:24:15] <archivist> I got it wrong a week or so ago on a watchmakers lathe cross slide handle, it broke, and the break shows it was wrought iron
[15:24:26] <archivist> should have annealed
[15:24:32] <ReadError> he machined kids into turbine shafts?
[15:24:52] <CaptHindsight> "back in those days we never said no, we'd say yes and then figure out a way to do it"
[15:25:57] <CaptHindsight> ReadError: kids could spin much faster back in those days
[15:26:51] <archivist> I went to see a straightening press in Sheffield, not long before the factory was pulled down, (before I had a digital camera so no pics from me)
[15:27:54] <archivist> 12000 ton iirc
[15:33:16] <CaptHindsight> when did radial arm saws become so dangerous? I watched a few youtubes on them and they make it sound like they are basically blade launchers labeled as saws
[15:33:37] <XXCoder> trending shitty builds?
[15:33:40] <XXCoder> dunno
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[15:34:22] <archivist> found the pump for that press http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1670291
[15:34:47] <CaptHindsight> nice
[15:34:52] <archivist> and the press http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1668885
[15:35:26] <archivist> minus a cylinder so down to 8000 ton at the time we went to see it
[15:36:05] <CaptHindsight> 112 years old now "This works was doing defence work but nobody batted an eyelid when we asked for permission to photograph."
[15:36:08] <XXCoder> arch I remember touring Navair base machine shop once - they showed machine that has been running since 1910s and said it was utterly realiable. and they showed much more modern machine in its own room "because its sensive to envorment"
[15:36:09] <XXCoder> lol
[15:38:27] <CaptHindsight> more profit, less machine
[15:38:30] <archivist> there was a group of us on that visit, we also went to a forge to see steam hammers in action
[15:42:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.oobject.com/category/10-massive-steam-hammers/ like these?
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[15:43:15] <CaptHindsight> in 30-40 years I don't know who is going to design and build anything
[15:43:54] <archivist> this place http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1689068
[15:44:55] <archivist> heh I have pics of some of those 10,
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[15:45:53] <archivist> sun was wrong for me http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8208&subject=24995
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[15:49:23] <CaptHindsight> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/2871374209_7e4ff265d1.jpg they just closed but they were right in the middle of the city, you could stand on the sidewalk and watch this through the door
[15:51:36] <CaptHindsight> they had a big hammer as well
[15:51:56] <archivist> some people are making stuff the old way, a mainline steam loco has been made new over here
[15:52:38] <archivist> the wheels were cast in the local town, but that foundry has gone now
[15:52:57] <CaptHindsight> they had there mobile cranes for moving forgings down the street shared by city traffic...
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[15:53:39] <CaptHindsight> some nights you would pass the slow moving crane with a glowing forging underneath and feel the radiant heat from several feet away
[15:54:53] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mmsonline.com/cdn/cms/IMG_0588.jpg this would be going down the street
[15:55:16] <XXCoder> interesting
[15:58:50] <XXCoder> big hammer allright.
[16:00:26] <CaptHindsight> huh, they got closed for safety violations
[16:05:06] <XXCoder> wonder what violations
[16:05:37] <CaptHindsight> archivist: not much old way going on here except for craft, jewelry etc
[16:06:25] <CaptHindsight> https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22779
[16:06:37] <archivist> volunteer museums also do things the old way
[16:06:49] <CaptHindsight> and the heir http://www.suntimes.com/news/watchdogs/23434764-452/judge-drops-weapons-charges-against-steel-heir-james-b-finkl.html
[16:07:19] <CaptHindsight> archivist: there is similar train museum near here
[16:07:42] <CaptHindsight> http://www.irm.org/
[16:07:52] <CaptHindsight> but you have several there
[16:08:18] <archivist> several/hundreds
[16:08:47] <archivist> been to IRM :)
[16:09:26] <archivist> about 1984/5
[16:14:33] <CaptHindsight> all the commuter trains here feel like museum pieces now
[16:15:16] <CaptHindsight> when I return from Asia I always feel like I've come back from the future
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[16:17:57] <archivist> when I went on the irm streetcar they said it was the fastest in the world.....I thought otherwise
[16:18:43] <XXCoder> was it underground? might be fastest underground car in world ;)
[16:25:51] <humble_sea_bass> don't worry guys, in 30-40 years we won't have to know how to build anything
[16:25:54] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJC/pictures/America_85/page_0000.jpg
[16:26:20] <humble_sea_bass> we can print knowledge
[16:26:29] <humble_sea_bass> or just go on instructibles
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[16:27:35] <XXCoder> not really. you can read your height tall stack of books on how to ride a bicycle and still fail few times before learning
[16:27:48] <XXCoder> knowledge and experence is not same
[16:28:48] <XXCoder> knowledge gives you experence faster by avoiding common mistakes but its not stand in replacement
[16:30:47] <Tom_itx> experience gives knowledge understanding
[16:30:50] <CaptHindsight> or communicating sarcasm over IRC :)
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[16:50:46] <archivist> CaptHindsight, http://thenextweb.com/dd/2011/12/12/finally-sarcasm-has-a-voice-in-print-with-its-own-font/
[16:55:34] <zeeshan> anyone have a nice PDF
[16:55:39] <zeeshan> that covers all different types of inserts?
[16:55:49] <zeeshan> and diemsnions
[16:55:49] <zeeshan> ;p
[16:56:13] <archivist> pdf and nice would be an oxymoron
[16:56:56] <archivist> and go download the sandvik coromant tooling catalogues
[16:58:44] <skroon> anyone in here using cambam at all?
[16:59:10] <archivist> one or two
[16:59:58] <XXCoder> played with cambam but not enough experence to answer any questionm
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[17:02:22] <archivist> met the cambam coder at a model engineering show, seems a nice bloke
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[17:04:18] <skroon> archivist: cool, he's from the UK right?
[17:05:04] <archivist> yes
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[17:05:22] <skroon> i'm trying to make a double sided part
[17:05:57] <skroon> now, it's the basic CNC knowledge i'm missing to learn about how to align things properly. I know I would be able to use dowel pins etc, to center things perfectly
[17:06:04] <skroon> just curious how to combine that with cambam
[17:06:09] <archivist> but I dont have it, nor used it
[17:06:35] <skroon> what do you use for CAM?
[17:06:45] <archivist> inside rear of skull
[17:06:46] <Tom_itx> skroon, i sometimes machine from a material block as part of the model
[17:07:18] <skroon> archivist: meaning, you write gcode your self?
[17:07:22] <archivist> yes
[17:07:29] <skroon> Tom_itx: ah right, like a square box or something?
[17:07:42] <Tom_itx> then you at least have a consistent reference
[17:08:04] <Tom_itx> you're gonna start off with a block anyway
[17:08:20] <skroon> Tom_itx: right, this is where I know in theory that it works that way, just a bit puzzled how to apply it in the real world :-)
[17:08:43] <skroon> so that additional material block, you make this in your CAM software, or already during CAD ?
[17:09:16] <Tom_itx> mine is combined so i put it in the cad on a material layer
[17:09:31] <skroon> ok
[17:09:38] <Tom_itx> mine also has a 'show cut' feature so defining the material helps in that regard too
[17:09:55] <skroon> what tools do you use?
[17:10:00] <Tom_itx> smartcam
[17:14:11] <Tom_itx> oh and sometimes a screwdriver and wrench or pliers
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[17:14:55] <skroon> this whole fixing and clamping parts, I have to learn more :-)
[17:17:01] <archivist> there is very little (cheap) cam available for round parts made on a rotary like I mostly make hence not using cam
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[17:21:32] <Tom_itx> that's true
[17:22:03] <XXCoder> is there any good free cam software for making toolpaths?
[17:22:15] <skroon> what exactly do you mean with "on a rotary" ? that's A axis?
[17:22:24] <Tom_itx> pick one: good free
[17:22:31] <XXCoder> hmm
[17:22:40] <XXCoder> what about "reasonable working"?
[17:23:34] <Tom_itx> some seem to like cambam ok
[17:23:39] <Tom_itx> i didn't care much for it
[17:23:49] <XXCoder> yeah been playing with it. its ok. whats you use?
[17:23:57] <Tom_itx> ^^
[17:24:04] <Tom_itx> i mentioned that
[17:24:17] <XXCoder> smartcam?
[17:24:19] <skroon> I didnt' know much cam software, but cambam was reasonably priced, how much is smartcam?
[17:24:23] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:24:24] <XXCoder> I googled that and got webcams
[17:24:33] <XXCoder> found it
[17:24:38] <CaptHindsight> http://sites.fastspring.com/hexray/product/cambam
[17:24:52] <CaptHindsight> CamBam plus license $149.00
[17:25:01] <skroon> CaptHindsight: you use cambam?
[17:25:09] <zeeshan> fak paying money for software
[17:25:10] <CaptHindsight> never tried it
[17:25:13] <zeeshan> unless you're a business ;p
[17:25:23] <Tom_itx> i was
[17:25:29] <Tom_itx> now i have it for good
[17:25:45] <skroon> zeeshan: so you don't think it's reasonable to pay a programmer for his work, and also speeds up your own work process?
[17:25:50] <XXCoder> smartcam sirte dont show prices
[17:25:55] <XXCoder> I HATE sites that dont
[17:26:06] <skroon> XXCoder: yeah mee too :-) it's like "hiding the truth"
[17:26:38] <XXCoder> in fact, site seem to assume I already has software installed
[17:26:41] <Tom_itx> XXCoder i paid about 6-8k over 15yrs ago
[17:27:03] <skroon> Tom_itx: i'm assuming you have old version then, or the updates are free?
[17:27:16] <Tom_itx> updates are not free and mine is old
[17:27:16] <CaptHindsight> did pycam ever go beyond 3 axis?
[17:27:35] <Tom_itx> i've got about 3 versions of it
[17:27:45] <Tom_itx> one is actually dos based
[17:27:59] <syyl_ws> im trying cambam since a few months
[17:28:03] <syyl_ws> and i like it very much
[17:28:13] <skroon> syyl_ws: I bought it week ago :)
[17:28:15] <XXCoder> fuck smartcam. it may be kickass but I wont go though hassle
[17:28:26] <skroon> syyl_ws: did you do two sided parts already?
[17:28:33] <syyl_ws> not with cambam
[17:28:40] <syyl_ws> i use it most for 2d parts
[17:28:43] <syyl_ws> and some 3d profiling
[17:29:00] <skroon> syyl_ws: ok :-) I would like to do 3d parts, and have it double sided, manual of cambam isn't really helping out too much
[17:29:01] <syyl_ws> for real 3d machining i have access to creo/Nc
[17:29:07] <skroon> excted for the obvious stuff
[17:29:17] <syyl_ws> because thats what i use at work :D
[17:29:18] <zeeshan> skroon: nah
[17:29:33] <zeeshan> work already pays cam software enough
[17:29:34] <zeeshan> :)
[17:29:35] <skroon> zeeshan: your probably not a programmer your self then :-)
[17:29:53] <skroon> zeeshan: ahhh home use :-)
[17:29:55] <zeeshan> for personal use, its unreasonable to pay 5k for a good cam/cad package
[17:30:05] <zeeshan> for work work, we pay like 500,000 for a years license
[17:30:17] <zeeshan> so i justify it like that :)
[17:30:23] <XXCoder> yeah its 2x cost of very good personal cnc, let alone cheap cnc!
[17:30:25] <skroon> zeeshan: yeah indeed I agree, but i guess it's hard to make software see that distinction clearly
[17:30:51] <syyl_ws> i asked a guy from ptc (those who make creo) if there is a cheaper version for private use
[17:31:06] <syyl_ws> he replied: "look in the internet, you will find what you want.." and smiled ;)
[17:31:17] <zeeshan> honestly im using student copies for nx, inventor, solidworks
[17:31:24] <zeeshan> and i mainly use nx for cam
[17:31:30] <skroon> syyl_ws: nice :-)
[17:31:32] <zeeshan> its just stupid easy to do setup stuff i nit
[17:31:39] <zeeshan> and there is a crap load of support/tutorials
[17:32:10] <skroon> syyl_ws: so you you mentioned you didn't do two sided 3d with cambam, that suggest you did it with other cam software?
[17:32:10] <Tom_itx> http://www.nccs.com/Products.html
[17:32:15] <Tom_itx> good for multi axis
[17:32:27] <syyl_ws> dayli routine for me, skroon
[17:32:41] <syyl_ws> i do prototyping in plastic for a living
[17:33:04] <syyl_ws> most parts are two or more side setups
[17:33:14] <skroon> syyl_ws: how do you align stuff? you have 4th axis?
[17:33:20] <syyl_ws> nope, all 3 axis
[17:33:24] <Tom_itx> fixtures
[17:33:32] <Tom_itx> or tooling points
[17:33:39] <syyl_ws> fixtures or i use a feature of the parts to align
[17:33:53] <syyl_ws> or i machine it in a "frame" thats cut away after i finish
[17:34:06] <syyl_ws> my parts are pretty small ;)
[17:34:20] <Tom_itx> sometimes we leave a skin and pop the part out of those frames
[17:34:41] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/2011-11-25_14-07-18_512.jpg
[17:34:49] <zeeshan> those are small
[17:34:50] <zeeshan> :D
[17:34:54] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0176.jpg
[17:34:58] <zeeshan> what kind of plastic is that
[17:35:04] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0178.jpg
[17:35:13] <syyl_ws> pa6 with 30% glasfibre
[17:35:26] <syyl_ws> i beadblast the stuff when finished
[17:35:27] <zeeshan> you could just say nylon
[17:35:28] <zeeshan> you know
[17:35:29] <zeeshan> :)
[17:35:48] <syyl_ws> or perlon
[17:35:51] <skroon> syyl_ws: that's awesome stuff! :-)
[17:35:54] <zeeshan> fancy names
[17:35:57] <zeeshan> fancy material
[17:35:58] <zeeshan> i like
[17:36:06] <syyl_ws> ah
[17:36:11] <syyl_ws> theres the setup
[17:36:11] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0216.jpg
[17:36:15] <skroon> syyl_ws: what are those parts used for ?
[17:36:15] <Tom_itx> syyl-ws what are they for
[17:36:15] <syyl_ws> first side machined
[17:36:36] <syyl_ws> then filled with a resin
[17:36:37] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0217.jpg
[17:36:45] <zeeshan> it'
[17:36:48] <zeeshan> it's like baking
[17:36:49] <zeeshan> :D
[17:36:53] <syyl_ws> second side:
[17:36:53] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0220.jpg
[17:37:05] <syyl_ws> break the part loose:
[17:37:06] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0221.jpg
[17:37:11] <syyl_ws> done ,9
[17:37:30] <syyl_ws> those are parts for circuit breakers, gfi-switches etc..
[17:37:39] <zeeshan> omg
[17:37:41] <zeeshan> i was about to guess that
[17:37:54] <skroon> that resin is used to hold it in place?
[17:38:04] <syyl_ws> "pattex stabilit express"
[17:38:21] <syyl_ws> dont know if thats common elsewhere then germany ;)
[17:38:31] <skroon> nice
[17:38:39] <skroon> what is the stuff normaly used for ? :)
[17:39:05] <syyl_ws> as a glue with gap fillig properties
[17:39:20] <skroon> and you can get it off the plastic with ?
[17:39:34] <syyl_ws> it breaks loose with almost no residue
[17:39:40] <syyl_ws> but holds enough for machining
[17:39:47] <skroon> great, those small parts don't tend to break?
[17:39:53] <syyl_ws> sometimes ;)
[17:40:02] <skroon> it's better indeed then those bridges
[17:40:11] <skroon> how long does it take for that resin to be hard?
[17:40:18] <syyl_ws> 5 to 10 minutes
[17:40:31] <syyl_ws> 5 if you put it on the room heater ;)
[17:40:44] <skroon> nice
[17:40:52] <skroon> so, about that double sided panel...
[17:40:56] <skroon> you flip it in X or Y ?
[17:41:05] <syyl_ws> x
[17:41:17] <syyl_ws> and i take the outside as a reference
[17:41:23] <skroon> I was about to ask :-)
[17:41:23] <syyl_ws> i pick it with the renishaw probe
[17:41:28] <skroon> so how do you know the outside?
[17:41:29] <skroon> ahh :-)
[17:41:58] <XXCoder> alignment cam? http://tech.woot.com/?ref=gh_tc_2 ;)
[17:42:07] <syyl_ws> i prefer the renishaw ;)
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[17:42:15] <skroon> what does that renishaw probe cost ? :)
[17:42:16] <syyl_ws> its good to 1...2/1000mm
[17:42:23] <syyl_ws> uhm
[17:42:40] <syyl_ws> 5k eur was the replacement
[17:42:52] <syyl_ws> as my workmake broke it...
[17:42:54] <skroon> damn :)
[17:42:59] <syyl_ws> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0415.jpg
[17:43:09] <skroon> then you had to cry?
[17:43:11] <skroon> for 2 weeks
[17:43:17] <syyl_ws> not me :D
[17:43:25] <syyl_ws> company is big enough
[17:43:48] <syyl_ws> he had to take the beating :D
[17:43:50] <skroon> so, I don't really have touch probe
[17:43:57] <skroon> so how would I be able todo the same thing?
[17:44:04] <skroon> use really small drill
[17:44:06] <syyl_ws> with an edgefinder?
[17:44:15] <syyl_ws> cheap as hell
[17:44:19] <syyl_ws> and very precise
[17:44:20] <skroon> "edgefinder" that's new to me :)
[17:44:28] <skroon> you have image?
[17:44:48] <syyl_ws> better
[17:44:51] <syyl_ws> a video from tormach
[17:44:52] <syyl_ws> http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCwQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Df0od-cp_9dg&ei=A8wtU9vfNISjtAaQroDIAw&usg=AFQjCNFVeDJhMxlENy0lx1pyyUo5l9OKbg&bvm=bv.62922401,d.Yms
[17:44:59] <syyl_ws> urgs
[17:45:02] <skroon> checking
[17:45:12] <skroon> what is "cheap as hell" :-)
[17:45:17] <skroon> after hearing a 5k instrument
[17:45:21] <syyl_ws> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0od-cp_9dg
[17:45:22] <skroon> that might vary a bit :)
[17:45:23] <syyl_ws> uhm
[17:45:27] <XXCoder> lol
[17:45:34] <syyl_ws> about 10...50 euros
[17:45:57] <skroon> great!
[17:46:07] <skroon> I should figure out where to buy :-)
[17:46:10] <syyl_ws> ebay?
[17:46:34] <skroon> and you need this edge finder, to make sure the flipping of the X axis, is perfect
[17:46:37] <skroon> right ?
[17:46:45] <syyl_ws> mhm
[17:46:47] <syyl_ws> ã bit
[17:46:54] <syyl_ws> its to locate the edge of an part
[17:46:59] <XXCoder> video is captioned! awesome
[17:48:06] <zeeshan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr9Mki_ElXU
[17:48:10] <zeeshan> that loooks pretty violent
[17:48:11] <zeeshan> lol
[17:48:30] <skroon> so when flipping the board, you again have to use the edge finder ?
[17:48:39] <syyl_ws> jap
[17:48:49] <syyl_ws> you could work against a stop
[17:48:55] <syyl_ws> but i prefer it that way
[17:49:19] <skroon> I have to buy those stops and clamps
[17:49:46] <skroon> currenlty i'm using holes in my bottom board (it has M5 threading in them) and use washers to clamp stuff down :)
[17:50:44] <skroon> syyl_ws: what is maximum speed that edge finder can use? my router has minimum of 10k rpm
[17:50:57] <syyl_ws> thats a bit much...
[17:51:07] <syyl_ws> they like something between 500 and 800rpm
[17:51:10] <skroon> damn :-)
[17:51:11] <skroon> I thought so
[17:51:21] <syyl_ws> you can use a dowel pin
[17:51:26] <syyl_ws> with known diameter
[17:51:32] <syyl_ws> aproach the edge
[17:51:43] <syyl_ws> and watch the light between pin and part
[17:51:49] <syyl_ws> if the lights gone
[17:51:51] <syyl_ws> youre there
[17:51:56] <XXCoder> and that person latest video isnt captioned aw
[17:52:03] <syyl_ws> or paint the pin with a sharpie pen
[17:52:11] <syyl_ws> and aproach the part
[17:52:12] <skroon> syyl_ws: dowel pin in the chuck you mean right
[17:52:17] <syyl_ws> jap
[17:52:18] <skroon> collet
[17:52:25] <syyl_ws> if the paint rubs of the pin, youre touching
[17:52:32] <skroon> and "dowel" pin, i just a straight blank?
[17:52:40] <syyl_ws> yes
[17:52:55] <skroon> and I need the spindle turned on?
[17:52:57] <syyl_ws> maybe the shank of a broken endmill
[17:53:05] <syyl_ws> helps, if theres some runout
[17:53:14] <skroon> ah right
[17:53:38] <skroon> and then once it's touching, I know the the edge if half the diamter (the radius) to the right of the current X position?
[17:53:51] <syyl_ws> correct :)
[17:54:01] <skroon> awesome, thanks for the super clear explanation :-)
[17:54:47] <skroon> in cambam video's, I see a lot people using the center of the object as origin
[17:55:00] <syyl_ws> no problem, sir :)
[17:55:12] <skroon> I would think that lower left corner would be easiest, but i'm probably not correct here :)
[17:55:14] <syyl_ws> centering a part is also a very good way
[17:55:21] <syyl_ws> takes a bit more work
[17:55:30] <syyl_ws> but it averages errors out a bit
[17:55:46] <skroon> what do you mean?
[17:56:12] <syyl_ws> using the center of the part
[17:56:44] <skroon> so then I really need to be sure (measure) if everything fits in al 4 directions right?
[17:57:01] <skroon> whereas lower left corner as origin, I just have to make sure in 2 directions there is enough material
[17:57:09] <syyl_ws> yes
[17:57:15] <CaptHindsight> when the USB scopes show up I'll finish the camera based auto alignment
[17:57:17] <syyl_ws> and when you flip it
[17:57:34] <syyl_ws> take the right upper corner as your zero
[17:57:52] <syyl_ws> so its still the same corner as on the first side, just flipped
[17:57:58] <syyl_ws> also helps against errors :D
[17:58:18] <skroon> isn't it lower right corner if you just do X flip?
[17:58:33] <syyl_ws> ah sorry
[17:58:39] <syyl_ws> yes
[17:58:42] <skroon> np :-)
[17:58:49] <syyl_ws> i normaly use upper left and upper right
[17:59:02] <skroon> since everything is still scary to me, i'm try to get it straight in my head :-)
[17:59:04] <syyl_ws> because theres my fixed yaw of the vise
[17:59:24] <skroon> so then you flip both x and y ?
[17:59:47] <syyl_ws> na
[17:59:49] <syyl_ws> just x
[18:00:07] <syyl_ws> i start the first side on the upper left
[18:00:09] <syyl_ws> flip it
[18:00:12] <skroon> so, you have to touch off, both side, the X and the Y sides to get that opper left (or right)
[18:00:19] <syyl_ws> upper right is the new zero
[18:00:21] <skroon> I mean, lower right or uper right
[18:00:46] <syyl_ws> its so hard to explain something by just-text :D
[18:00:57] <syyl_ws> if you would be sitting next to me, it would be so easy :D
[18:00:58] <skroon> syyl_ws: hehehe that's why I appreciate it a lot
[18:01:20] <skroon> well, I live close to Germany, I can bring Dutch candy and stuff :-)
[18:01:51] <skroon> syyl_ws: so, if you use center as origin, then this touching off from the side, is that still valid approach?
[18:02:01] <skroon> or you just then divide again the material block?
[18:02:11] <skroon> (should I be calling that: the stock ? )
[18:02:28] <syyl_ws> to center stock/part, touch of left and right
[18:02:32] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140322-gang-plans-mass-producing-atm-skimmers-via-3d-printing.html
[18:02:41] <syyl_ws> and divide the measurement from the dro
[18:02:46] <skroon> syyl_ws: ahhh, right! :-)
[18:02:47] <syyl_ws> then you get the exact center
[18:04:01] <skroon> so would that make the flipping (double sided) also easier, when working from the center?
[18:04:51] <syyl_ws> sometimes :D
[18:05:00] <syyl_ws> that depends a bit on the job
[18:05:12] <skroon> hehe, I understand there are so many exceptions ofcourse, depending on job, materials, drawing :-)
[18:05:27] <skroon> i'm looking for the easy way out... but in reality there probably isn't one :)
[18:05:33] <syyl_ws> its always a bit trynerror
[18:06:08] <skroon> right, I noticed, that's why my right hand is always on the E-Stop
[18:06:17] <skroon> even in my sleep, I sometimes press the E-stop out of reflex
[18:07:39] <archivist> make one, adjust gcode and settings make a correct one
[18:08:08] <skroon> now that I was looking at 3D milling, I thought that perhaps a simulator wouldn't be such a bad idea to start with
[18:08:17] <syyl_ws> manual machining: all parts different wrong
[18:08:25] <syyl_ws> cnc maching: all parts wrong the same
[18:08:27] <syyl_ws> ;)
[18:08:38] <skroon> ahahahha
[18:08:51] <syyl_ws> you lough :D
[18:09:02] <syyl_ws> thats sometimes the bitter reality :D
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[18:10:25] <archivist> one at a time cnc part of the setup is by hand so they are not all the same http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_08_13_verge/P1010318.JPG
[18:10:58] <archivist> took 7 attempts to get one
[18:11:06] <syyl_ws> wow
[18:11:09] <syyl_ws> thats nice
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[18:11:23] <zeeshan> what are those
[18:11:26] <zeeshan> mini hole saws
[18:11:30] <zeeshan> ;][
[18:11:50] <syyl_ws> some kind of gear/ratchet?
[18:12:08] <Tom_itx> fancy clock parts
[18:12:08] <zeeshan> teeth look too sharp
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[18:12:27] <zeeshan> shrug ;p
[18:12:31] <archivist> pocket watch verge escape wheel
[18:12:48] <zeeshan> ;D
[18:13:19] <Tom_itx> one thing about making watch parts... you don't waste alot of material
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[18:14:03] <syyl_ws> but a lot of nerves i think ;)
[18:14:24] <Tom_itx> and decent eyes
[18:14:31] <Tom_itx> or magnification
[18:14:46] <archivist> that shows the form on the end of a stick http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2009/2009_08_14_cnc_watch_verge_escape_wheel/IMG_0273.JPG
[18:14:58] <syyl_ws> but it lacks the nice sound when you throw a thrashed part against the next wall :\
[18:15:03] <syyl_ws> that might be disapointing
[18:15:20] <archivist> too small to hear when they fall
[18:16:39] <archivist> as the rotary axis was at an angle and impossible to get in and see, it was try it and see till looked ok
[18:18:26] <skroon> syyl_ws: for that double sided think you just showed, which origin did you use?
[18:18:42] <archivist> the setup is in the last two pics http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=verge
[18:18:54] <syyl_ws> left upper edge
[18:18:58] <syyl_ws> then right upper edge
[18:19:19] <skroon> and then when flipped, you used also the upper ri...
[18:19:21] <skroon> :)
[18:19:36] <skroon> you have a picture of how it was clamped ?
[18:19:44] <skroon> curious to which clamps you used
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[18:19:57] <syyl_ws> uh
[18:20:03] <zeeshan> you guys think
[18:20:07] <syyl_ws> i clamp almost everything in a vise
[18:20:12] <zeeshan> an 18" starrett level is a good enough machinist level
[18:20:13] <skroon> I saw a nice one today in a youtube video, I wanted to have it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd-1BeUN2sc
[18:20:14] <zeeshan> for levelling machines?
[18:20:19] <zeeshan> or should i be looking for something smaller
[18:20:36] <skroon> syyl_ws: ahhh a vise
[18:20:40] <syyl_ws> and the bigger plates get glued down with double sided tape
[18:20:43] <zeeshan> i need to level the mill, lathe, belt sander, welding table, etc
[18:20:43] <archivist> zeeshan, 18" should be pretty damned good
[18:20:56] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDEwMjQ=/z/YGYAAOxyVLNTAmGy/$_20.JPG
[18:21:01] <zeeshan> is this a pretty standard one?
[18:21:16] <zeeshan> looks like the top right screw is for calibrating the level
[18:21:47] <CaptHindsight> we need plugins for when tools break or crash Linuxcnc could play this http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/sad-trombone-wah/
[18:22:13] <zeeshan> there is another one for sale
[18:22:14] <zeeshan> thats 12"
[18:22:21] <zeeshan> im not sure if going with too big of a leevel will cause issues
[18:22:24] <archivist> I have a homebrew version that one would have to calibrate by modifying the spacer under the screws
[18:22:25] <skroon> syyl_ws: so when useing a vise, you don't have to worry about going trhough the model i guess? like i'm using a spoil board now
[18:22:34] <zeeshan> archivist: basically what im asking is
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[18:22:41] <zeeshan> if i go with a 6" level vs a 18" level
[18:22:47] <zeeshan> whats the con of going too big
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[18:23:02] <zeeshan> other than it can't fit on what youre trying to level
[18:23:15] <archivist> you learn how bendy solid stuff is
[18:23:31] <syyl_ws> and how much your floor moves when walking around :\
[18:23:41] <zeeshan> rofl
[18:23:42] <archivist> my levels often detect floor bending
[18:23:47] <syyl_ws> mine too
[18:23:51] <syyl_ws> sold the level ;)
[18:23:52] <zeeshan> concrete bends?
[18:23:52] <zeeshan> ;p
[18:24:02] <syyl_ws> ya
[18:24:06] <archivist> everything bends
[18:24:12] <zeeshan> yea i know that
[18:24:20] <syyl_ws> enough to make you crazy when leveling something
[18:24:21] <zeeshan> but i wouldnt expect it to bend significantly to register on a level
[18:24:29] <Tom_itx> why not?
[18:24:41] <skroon> syyl_ws: when using a vice, you let the material stick out (in z axis) of the vice?
[18:25:04] <Tom_itx> skroon sure
[18:25:09] <syyl_ws> not always
[18:25:18] <syyl_ws> depends again ;)
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[18:25:31] <syyl_ws> sometimes its flush with the yaws
[18:25:35] <syyl_ws> sometimes above it
[18:25:40] <skroon> syyl_ws: i'm curious how you make sure that surface is leveled
[18:25:52] <archivist> use the base
[18:25:56] <skroon> I was thinking, if it's flush, you can more easily get it flushed?
[18:26:00] <archivist> a spacer
[18:26:00] <skroon> archivist: base?
[18:26:01] <syyl_ws> the vice is level with the machine
[18:26:04] <zeeshan> interesting concerete has a signifricantly less youngs modulus
[18:26:06] <zeeshan> than steel
[18:26:13] <zeeshan> i though it was the other way around
[18:26:53] <skroon> syyl_ws: I thought the vise only clamped from the sides, and didn't have a bottom
[18:27:02] <zeeshan> so basically you guys are saying the bigger level will be more sensitive
[18:27:04] <archivist> skroon, between the item and the bottom of the jaws
[18:27:05] <zeeshan> to deflections
[18:27:09] <zeeshan> while the smaller one won't be
[18:27:22] <archivist> zeeshan, depends on the bubble
[18:27:22] <zeeshan> cause its working over a larger span
[18:27:26] <skroon> archivist: ah right, so then it stays up in the air ?
[18:27:31] <Tom_itx> skroon, this part is held above the vise: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/P3.jpg
[18:27:43] <syyl_ws> sometimes i but a big parallel under it
[18:27:49] <zeeshan> http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/z/B3oAAMXQC-tTAmHB/$_20.JPG
[18:27:51] <syyl_ws> and glue the part to it with doublesided tape
[18:27:52] <zeeshan> thats the bubble on the big one
[18:27:53] <archivist> zeeshan, you can get crappy bubbles on long levels
[18:28:00] <syyl_ws> so it doesnt warp up when clamping
[18:28:18] <archivist> so look for the divisions per unit length
[18:28:22] <skroon> great tricks all :-)
[18:28:37] <syyl_ws> i dont know the right term
[18:28:45] <syyl_ws> "many ways to skin a cat"
[18:28:46] <syyl_ws> ?
[18:28:47] <skroon> i have a cheaper CNC, and not too much room in Z-axis, so I would need a low profile vise I guess
[18:29:32] <syyl_ws> screwless grinding vice
[18:29:47] <zeeshan> ill just watch a video on levels
[18:29:47] <syyl_ws> my prefered choice of vice for every milling machine i ever worked on :D
[18:29:50] <zeeshan> im confused ;)
[18:30:23] <skroon> syyl_ws: screwless... meaning the part that clamps is screweless, or the part to fix it to the table?
[18:30:39] <syyl_ws> thats just what they are called
[18:30:45] <syyl_ws> in fact the have a clamping screw
[18:30:53] <syyl_ws> but its on an down-angle
[18:31:23] <syyl_ws> http://www.projectsinmetal.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/vise-exploded-view.jpg
[18:31:36] <syyl_ws> the yaw doesnt tilt up with that design
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[18:35:16] <archivist> zeeshan, I have 3 that I mainly use, a 10" an 8" and a clinometer, sometimes use a box level http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=levels+PD
[18:35:37] <XXCoder1> what about doing vise by laters
[18:35:39] <XXCoder1> layers
[18:35:49] <zeeshan> archivist:
[18:35:50] <XXCoder1> er NM lol
[18:35:51] <zeeshan> your site is so slow :{
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[18:35:59] <mcfloppy> hello
[18:36:07] <mcfloppy> my cnc is running :)
[18:36:11] <mcfloppy> yeah
[18:36:22] <zeeshan> archivist:
[18:36:25] <zeeshan> you have some really nice stuff
[18:36:27] <zeeshan> that wood box is pretty bad ass
[18:36:37] <mcfloppy> now i try to generate gcode. do someone here use dxf2gcode?
[18:36:59] <zeeshan> 'this case is for storage only. for transit by post, etc. it should be packed in a further box'
[18:36:59] <zeeshan> hahaha
[18:37:01] <zeeshan> so bad ass.
[18:37:15] <zeeshan> proper machinist tool.
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[18:40:55] <archivist> come up regular on fleabay here, but some expect high prices
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[18:42:09] <XXCoder1> boxception
[18:42:27] <archivist> the little one on fleabay over priced 160697689973
[18:43:03] <zeeshan> archivist: donate me some tools
[18:43:05] <zeeshan> :)
[18:43:22] <archivist> you just got a load!
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[18:43:23] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[18:43:25] <zeeshan> haha
[18:43:27] <zeeshan> i can never have enough
[18:43:32] <XXCoder1> hey ich
[18:43:33] <archivist> nor me
[18:43:44] <zeeshan> some people are addicted to alcohol
[18:43:54] <zeeshan> for people like us, we need tools anonymous.
[18:43:57] <archivist> I do have a spare box level :)
[18:44:13] <IchGuckLive> 4tons of steel did find the way today throu the mashinings
[18:44:19] <zeeshan> i'm not sure how a box level is used
[18:44:29] <archivist> the same way
[18:44:29] <zeeshan> oxtool talks about it briefly in his video
[18:44:42] <archivist> but also does vertical
[18:44:45] <zeeshan> ah
[18:44:57] <zeeshan> makes sense, the 90 degree surfaces are machined
[18:44:59] <zeeshan> now i see it
[18:45:40] <archivist> I had to buy a new bubble for the clinometer, £80
[18:45:49] <zeeshan> those vials are expensive
[18:45:55] <zeeshan> apparently its a precision made thing
[18:46:09] <zeeshan> and is made in a way so it's 'bowed out'
[18:46:19] <zeeshan> just by what i call a '???? hair'
[18:46:27] <zeeshan> insert inappropriate word in ????
[18:46:50] <Tom_itx> hair on a gnat's ass
[18:46:58] <zeeshan> rofl
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[18:47:15] <zeeshan> okay, todays goal
[18:47:21] <zeeshan> clean up and organize the entire garage
[18:47:38] <Tom_itx> that sounds more like a dream
[18:48:03] <zeeshan> im gonna put up more shelving
[18:48:03] <archivist> not possible in a day
[18:48:13] <zeeshan> okay ill make a reasonable goal
[18:48:20] <zeeshan> clean up all the tools on the floor
[18:48:27] <Tom_itx> not possible without getting side tracked either
[18:48:28] <zeeshan> and organize the drill press area
[18:48:34] <zeeshan> it's true.
[18:48:39] <zeeshan> i want to level my drill press
[18:48:46] <zeeshan> and i only have a shitty as wood working level
[18:48:58] <zeeshan> which might be good enough for a drill press
[18:49:02] <zeeshan> but not good enough for a lathe or mill
[18:49:25] <zeeshan> so then i found a good deal for an 18" level on kijiji
[18:49:31] <zeeshan> guy wants 60$ for a 300$ level
[18:49:46] <Tom_itx> maybe he dropped it
[18:49:54] <zeeshan> doesnmt look dropped
[18:50:01] <zeeshan> just looks old
[18:50:16] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-hand-tools-Starrett-precision-level-W0QQAdIdZ567775325
[18:50:17] <zeeshan> ad
[18:50:47] <zeeshan> there is another one
[18:50:48] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-hand-tools-Starrett-98-6-machinist-level-w-box-W0QQAdIdZ572935226
[18:50:52] <zeeshan> for $60 but its only 6"
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[18:52:17] <sabotender> moo
[18:52:24] <sabotender> heyla archivist
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[18:53:06] <Tom_itx> i think if i were after a precision level i'd get one a bit longer than 6"
[18:53:14] <zeeshan> yea
[18:53:20] <archivist> zeeshan, appears to have been adapted, got at bodged, fleabay 291107043126
[18:53:47] <archivist> I dont trust one like that
[18:54:28] <archivist> been on that long that no one else trusts it either
[18:56:51] <Tom_itx> what don't you trust about it?
[18:58:06] <archivist> it has had a side sawn off
[18:58:14] <zeeshan> really?
[18:58:27] <Tom_itx> yeah
[18:58:29] <archivist> yes mine is complete
[18:58:40] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=567775325&Keyword=starrett%20level
[18:58:44] <zeeshan> where is the side sawn off
[18:58:44] <zeeshan> !
[18:58:49] <zeeshan> looks original to me!
[18:59:04] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail?k=98-18
[18:59:06] <zeeshan> original
[18:59:15] <archivist> what it is supposed to look like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0587.JPG
[18:59:35] <zeeshan> i think we're talking about differnt things
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[19:00:33] <archivist> I was talking about fleabay 291107043126
[19:00:37] <zeeshan> oh
[19:01:01] <zeeshan> damn it is sawed off
[19:01:02] <zeeshan> lol
[19:01:38] <zeeshan> http://www.collection.archivist.info/showresult.php?prog=1&srcprog=searchv13.php&srcdata=title&Type=PD&Accn_no=8285&subject=25072
[19:01:40] <zeeshan> in this pic
[19:01:44] <zeeshan> what is that on the bottom left
[19:01:53] <archivist> ouch starrett miss out the spec of divisions per unit length
[19:01:53] <zeeshan> bottom left ot the taper roller bearing
[19:02:11] <zeeshan> it says
[19:02:18] <zeeshan> 80-90 seconds or 0.005" per foot
[19:02:38] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2010/2010_04_15_Levels/IMG_0596.JPG
[19:02:51] <zeeshan> could you explain how to use a level quickly!
[19:03:04] <archivist> a clinometer I dont know much about yet
[19:03:07] <zeeshan> so knowing its 80-90 seconds / 0.005" per foot
[19:03:11] <zeeshan> what is that telling me
[19:03:29] <archivist> slope/angle
[19:03:59] <archivist> 5 thou per foot, a steep slope for a lathe
[19:04:39] <zeeshan> trying to find a better pic
[19:05:21] <archivist> I have one here which is .00025" in 10"
[19:05:32] <zeeshan> http://images.starrett.com/is/image/Starrett/98-12we66934cUSp1?wid=1200&hei=1200&qlt=90,1
[19:05:35] <zeeshan> ignore that
[19:05:44] <zeeshan> nm that is the link
[19:05:55] <zeeshan> so on the left of the vial i see 7 tick marks
[19:05:56] * Tom_itx ignores it anyway
[19:06:00] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: mean
[19:06:06] <zeeshan> so each tick mark is what?
[19:06:21] <archivist> they should say
[19:06:25] <Tom_itx> the gradients should be specified
[19:06:35] <archivist> crap if not mentioned
[19:06:38] <zeeshan> basically how its shown in that pic
[19:06:41] <zeeshan> means its level right? :D
[19:06:47] <Tom_itx> 1 gradient = 1 foot
[19:06:51] <Tom_itx> bad
[19:06:55] <archivist> you can always adjust them
[19:07:16] <Tom_itx> are they specified in degrees or thousandths?
[19:07:21] <zeeshan> both
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[19:07:25] <zeeshan> 80-90 seconds or .005" per foot (0.42mm per meter)
[19:07:27] <archivist> better levels have the bubble accuracy engraved too
[19:07:28] <zeeshan> Main level vials have graduations that are approximately 80-90 seconds or .005" per foot (0.42mm per meter)
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[19:07:54] <archivist> you can get a lot better :)
[19:08:20] <zeeshan> how so?
[19:09:34] <zeeshan> ill watch a video!
[19:09:40] <zeeshan> easier to be shown
[19:10:18] <zeeshan> ahhh
[19:10:20] <zeeshan> this is relatively easy
[19:10:31] <zeeshan> the bubble needs to lie between the longer tick marks
[19:10:39] <zeeshan> and the 0.005" is over the 18 inches
[19:12:36] <archivist> my small one is .001" in 12" and the big one is .0005" in 10"
[19:12:43] <zeeshan> yea
[19:12:50] <zeeshan> makes more sense to use a .001 over 12"
[19:12:51] <zeeshan> for a lathje.
[19:13:00] <zeeshan> and even a mill
[19:13:10] <zeeshan> so you can check if parts are mounted right as a backup measurement.
[19:13:14] <zeeshan> just by using the level
[19:13:36] <Tom_itx> need a level? http://www.geier-bluhm.com/
[19:14:03] <zeeshan> http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/Precision-Measuring-Tools/Precision-Hand-Tools/Machinsts-Levels/Levels/199Z
[19:14:04] <zeeshan> wtf
[19:14:11] <zeeshan> 838$ level
[19:14:14] <zeeshan> too much $
[19:14:15] <zeeshan> lol
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[19:14:57] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-other-12-Accuracy-0-0002-10-MASTER-PRECISION-LEVELS-IN-FITTED-BOX-W0QQAdIdZ555307255
[19:15:02] <zeeshan> chinese level accurate to 0.0002"
[19:15:02] <archivist> second hand, and set them up on a surface plate
[19:15:03] <zeeshan> hahaha
[19:15:05] <zeeshan> yea right.
[19:15:54] <Tom_itx> http://store.gaging.com/machinist-level/53-422-068-wyler-adjustable-micrometer-spirit-level-6-quot-150mm-00025-quot-per-12-quot-5-arc-second-02mm-m-sensitivity
[19:16:01] <Tom_itx> that one seems pretty accurate
[19:16:04] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: ROFL
[19:16:33] <zeeshan> archivist: how much does the one you have that goes to 0.001" cost
[19:16:35] <zeeshan> typically
[19:17:28] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Starrett-No-199-15-Master-Precision-Level-/171272085250?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e09c9f02
[19:17:33] <zeeshan> flea bay one
[19:19:18] <Tom_itx> http://store.gaging.com/machinist-level/53-422-061-wyler-level-161-200-113-050-inspection-spirit-level-with-prismatic-base-8-quot-400mm-0005-quot-per-10-quot-10-seconds-05mm-m-sensitivity
[19:19:27] <Tom_itx> that one is only half as accurate
[19:21:37] <archivist> zeeshan, got mine 15-20 years ago army surplus, but 25-100 pounds seem the usual fleabay prices that sell
[19:21:37] <Tom_itx> the moon phase would probably affect the first one
[19:21:48] <zeeshan> Tom_itx:
[19:21:49] <zeeshan> rofl
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[19:25:03] <archivist> fleabay 271426976703 hilger and watts
[19:25:23] <Tom_itx> could be worth reading: http://www.vibrodynamics.com/english/bulletin/ml647.pdf
[19:25:41] <zeeshan> Tom_itx: nice find
[19:25:50] <zeeshan> i love technical bulletin
[19:25:54] <zeeshan> engineer's wet dream
[19:26:31] <zeeshan> 0.002" / 3.2 feet
[19:26:32] <zeeshan> hm
[19:27:17] <zeeshan> nm
[19:29:54] <archivist> for setting the mill column vertical the square box type does that too
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[19:34:46] <archivist> another use for levels is to home a rotary so parallel to the mill table
[19:35:13] <zeeshan> that stuff i think is easier to do with a dial indicator
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[19:35:13] <zeeshan> :P
[19:35:42] <zeeshan> archivist: did you see the drill press i bought
[19:35:48] <archivist> no
[19:35:56] <zeeshan> thats what i've been cleaning up and am mounting a tachometer on
[19:36:24] <zeeshan> it's nothing special but its a lot bigger than my other drill press
[19:37:41] <zeeshan> http://imgur.com/a/oEZcD
[19:37:43] <zeeshan> 360lb vs 133lb
[19:38:09] <zeeshan> now i can mount engine blocks on there and drill out broken studs
[19:38:31] <archivist> why is there still a car in there
[19:38:42] <zeeshan> cause she's a garage queen
[19:38:50] <zeeshan> transmission is out
[19:38:52] <zeeshan> so i can't even move it out
[19:38:52] <zeeshan> lol
[19:39:31] <zeeshan> okay no more irc
[19:39:33] <zeeshan> time to do work
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[19:49:40] <rodfrey> Can I access arbitrary pins and signals from a remap python script?
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[21:31:28] <NickParker> pcw_home: Hey I doubt you even remember me from december/early Jan, but I finally have time to mess with my 6i25 again.
[21:32:10] <NickParker> My goal right now is just to make it do something with a .bit file I've compiled, to prove I can compile non-broken bit files with the ISE
[21:33:44] <NickParker> Do you have the link to the basic guide Tom_itx compiled from a conversation between you two?
[21:33:52] <NickParker> oh wait Tom_itx is also here. Have you got that link/
[21:43:05] <NickParker> Found it: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
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[21:53:57] <asah> hello all. Can anyone help me with the BLDC driver? I can't get Trapezoidal commutation to work.
[21:54:13] <asah> I want to get this motor spinning without feedback first.
[21:55:01] <asah> I can get one phase to lock up, but I can't get the rotor-angle or phase-angle to progress.
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[22:00:12] <Tom_itx> isn't feedback part of what makes them work?
[22:01:29] <asah> I should be able to feedforward a trapezoidal, 6 step signal and get the rotor to spin.
[22:01:33] <asah> no?
[22:01:45] <asah> like a dumb RC ESC?
[22:01:57] <Einar> It is possible to make a BLDC run getting feedback from the BEMF. But not very useful in servo drive. It's used in model airplane motors.
[22:02:04] <NickParker> hooray i just booted with a .bit file i compiled
[22:02:15] <NickParker> now to make it actually do what I want..
[22:03:12] <Einar> It must "kick start" without knowing what happens. Then it can analyze the BEMF to see what stat the rotor is in.
[22:03:38] <Einar> But having a servo "kicking" with no control is not useful.
[22:03:57] <asah> right. I am just using this as a test.
[22:04:22] <asah> so I can play without an encoder
[22:05:21] <Einar> Not very useful test. Try to figure out at least the phase feedback first. That will allow it to run open loop. If your drive allows this mode that is.
[22:05:45] <asah> aha!!! got it going.
[22:05:59] <asah> the appropriate param is "frequency"
[22:06:16] <Einar> Good! So it's not dead. ;-)
[22:06:48] <asah> nope.
[22:06:52] <asah> spinning happily
[22:06:56] <Einar> Since we don't know what motor or drive you have we're shooting ducks in the dark.
[22:07:35] <Einar> Hope I did not shoot the sherrif!
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[22:10:57] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:21:01] <asah> sure. its a mesa 7i39 and a 14 pole motor
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[22:25:06] <Swapper_> andypugh: i saw one of your old vids on a X2 with a ac motor on it, what size whas that ?
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[22:26:13] <andypugh> 0.5kW, I think
[22:26:29] <andypugh> Might be 1hp. It has to be a 90 frame though.
[22:26:41] <Swapper_> ok
[22:26:49] <andypugh> (And that still needs an adapter plate)
[22:27:09] <Swapper_> ok ok
[22:27:24] <andypugh> If I was doing it again I would have scrapped the head gears and gone for direct belt drive.
[22:28:03] <Swapper_> yea, have done that on mine and its nice
[22:28:25] <andypugh> I didn't want to loose the dual speed, and it went against the grain to throw away good parts, but the plastic gears are too weak, and the metal gears are too noisy. I was hoping that the conversion to oil-bath lubrication would keep them quiet...
[22:28:34] <Swapper_> but running a 750w sevo atm but i need the servo for my other project so looking for a replacement
[22:29:17] <Swapper_> have a 1,5kw ac motor but i guess it will be hard to fit on the x2
[22:33:46] <andypugh> Offer it up, but I think you will find you can't miss the column and get to the drawbar at the same time.
[22:34:19] <Swapper_> will prob be tight
[22:35:28] <Swapper_> saw that you had the "x2" head on a lathe, i got a maximat that have a mount on the back for a add-on spindle. Think ill do a conversion and add the x2 z+ head to the maximat
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[22:44:55] <Einar> andypugh: G33 seems to work a charm here! G76 still making modern art pieces.
[22:48:03] <sabotender> moo
[22:48:19] <sabotender> what's going on?
[22:50:00] <Einar> Called it a day and having an Aas stout before going into the horizontal plane.
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[22:51:02] <andypugh> Swapper_: Don't. Lathe beds are really bad milling beds. They expect forces to be downwards and to the front, and mills push in many more directions.
[22:51:21] <Einar> So I can shut down the lathe through VNC. Cool!
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[22:51:46] <Swapper_> andypugh: ahh good point
[22:51:54] <Swapper_> but its made with that in mind ?
[22:52:02] <Swapper_> since it exist as a addon ?
[22:52:51] <Einar> I unmounted the milling column on my Emco. The leadscrew or rack is not in good control.
[22:53:11] <andypugh> Maybe the Maximat is. My Chinese "thing" wasn't even a well designed lathe, then they stretched it, and jacked up the head and tailstock.
[22:53:12] <Swapper_> ok
[22:53:42] <Einar> No. The Maximat is a very good lathe, but a lousy mill!!
[22:53:50] <Einar> I have one.
[22:54:10] <Swapper_> kk maybe i jump that then and only cnc convertit
[22:55:41] <Einar> Swapper: Do you have a Maximat? Don't convert it. It's too good as it is. You will always want a manual lathe.
[22:55:56] <Swapper_> yea its a maximat mentor
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[22:56:06] <Swapper_> but im missing some gears
[22:56:13] <Swapper_> for the threading
[22:56:25] <Swapper_> so a cnc conversion would make it more usfull
[22:57:36] <Swapper_> should be able to build it and still get it to run manual ?
[23:02:43] <Einar> I think you will regret not having a manual lathe. Some things are much quicker to to the old fashioned way.
[23:03:02] <Swapper_> yea but i need to have it manual also
[23:03:15] <Swapper_> cant lose that
[23:05:06] <Einar> There are ways. Like using an MPG. But it's not the same.
[23:05:35] <Swapper_> or keep the cranks?
[23:06:20] <Einar> Possible, but not convenient.
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[23:08:45] <andypugh> Einar: I don't miss a manual lathe at all
[23:09:01] <andypugh> But I also never write G-code on my lathe
[23:09:29] <Einar> You need a manual lathe when a sunstorm hits us really hard . ;-) You can have a helper crank the spindle.
[23:09:57] <andypugh> I have macros to turn to diameter, face to length, cut threads, radius, etc. I type in the numbers, press the button, and come back to program the next operation.
[23:09:57] <Swapper_> haha
[23:11:40] <andypugh> Einar: Add this tab to your Lathe UI, I think you will find it useful. http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
[23:12:33] <andypugh> There is a Youtube video where I am hand-cranking the spindle to get it to turn slowly enough to bore a hexagon :-)
[23:13:44] <Einar> Yes. Those macros looks very nice. After I get basic things level, I'll look into it.
[23:13:50] <Swapper_> andypugh: would those macros work in a mill ? if the meterial is in the spindle ?
[23:14:57] <andypugh> Swapper_: Probably. They call G-code which you could alter anyway
[23:15:00] <Bushman> i'm still trying to diagnose errors in my Z axis and it seems the PC part is at fault.
[23:15:25] <Einar> Hand cranking a CNC lathe. OK, that seems like 2 very different ages meet up.
[23:15:29] <Bushman> is it possible (for any arbitrary reason) for the linuxcnc software to lose steps?
[23:16:45] <Einar> Bushman: I think not. But it can cause your drives/motors to loose steps if your latency is not good.
[23:17:33] <Einar> The steppers don't like hiccups.
[23:18:03] <Bushman> i have connected a tiny stepper motor in parellel to my big Z stepper and run stepper config and tested the axis
[23:18:11] <sabotender> so has anyone seen the panther 210?
[23:18:20] <sabotender> I think it is a pretty sweet piece of machinery
[23:18:55] <rodfrey> Hi! I'm writing python scripts for my rack toolchanger. Is there a way to access arbitrary pins? I'm interested in seeing the spindle sensors. I'm using a 5i25 + 7i76.
[23:18:55] <Einar> Bushman: Are you running 2 motors from 1 driver? Not a good idea.
[23:19:29] <Bushman> to verify it's not a velocity issue and acceleration issue i've started from 1mm/s and 20mm/s^2
[23:19:49] <Bushman> Einar: i know but they are not under load right now
[23:19:53] <sabotender> how can one ensure that there is little to no latency?
[23:20:52] <Bushman> anyway... when i press the "Run" button to perform the test and the again to stop it, it usually goes back to 0
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[23:21:42] <sabotender> ... pardon me for 'butting in'.
[23:21:47] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: are you around?
[23:22:09] <Bushman> but from time to time when i press the RUN button to stop the test it does not goes all the way to 0
[23:22:10] <Bushman> or overshoots 0
[23:22:10] <Bushman> on my dial gauge it's about 0.15mm and same happens on the tiny stepper
[23:23:09] <Bushman> i know as for my machine 0.15 is no accuracy cause it's all wood and junk but 0.15 here and there sums up to 2mm at times!!!
[23:23:33] <Bushman> so my question is how do i diagnose the PC side issue
[23:23:34] <andypugh> rodfrey: Your Python code can create HAL pins, which you can read.
[23:23:52] <sabotender> I didn't realise you can use python for that sort of stuff
[23:24:17] <andypugh> rodfrey: As a very simple example, look at hal_manualtoolchange as a python script that runs in Userspace but has HAL pins.
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[23:24:43] <rodfrey> andypugh: cool, I'll look at that. Thanks!
[23:25:55] <andypugh> Bushman: LinuxCNC always does as it is told. (we would have lots of bug reports if it couldn't count steps). The question is, what is the difference between what you are asking the system to do, and what you think you are asking it to do.
[23:26:40] <andypugh> Do both motors run from the same stepper drive? Or are there two drives running from the same step-dir pins?
[23:27:59] <andypugh> sabotender: You can run the latency test to check latency. From the CNC menu. But there are other tools, such as latency-histogram too.
[23:30:12] <Bushman> andypugh: let's ignore the fact that i have commited the crime of running two separate stepper motrs from one driver. it was just for diagnostic purposes to visualise to me what is happening with my main stepper. what i'm asking the system to do is to run +/- 0.5mm at giver acceleration and maximum velocity
[23:30:24] <Bushman> andypugh: what i have observed is:
[23:30:56] <Bushman> the motor does what it is told most of the time
[23:31:08] <sabotender> andypugh: I am slightly peeved that a parallel port is a MUST HAVE
[23:31:16] <Bushman> but in random intervals of time or in random situations it does not
[23:31:24] <andypugh> sabotender: It isn't.
[23:31:31] <sabotender> so it means that I will need to get a pci -> parallel card just for the fun
[23:31:39] <Bushman> there is nothing else running on the PC. just stepper config.
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[23:31:52] <Einar> Workshop shut down and locked? Check. Beer bootle empty? Check. Passing on this channel to the next time zone. Goodnight.
[23:32:16] <Bushman> all i do is press mouse button to click "Run" button in axis test
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[23:32:21] <sabotender> andypugh: orly? I was told that usb -> parallel is a nono, serial -> parallel is a nono. I am not sure about 1392 since I have never owned a device that uses that
[23:32:23] <andypugh> Bushman: It is possible that the step timing is marginal for the drive, and that the drive is either losing steps, or seeing extra steps due to noise issues.
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[23:33:08] <andypugh> sabotender: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
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[23:34:00] <sabotender> andypugh: that penguin should also be wearing a respirator, when working with CNC stuff :-P
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[23:35:05] <andypugh> That list excludes the Mesa 7i80 which connects via ethernet, here it is running a motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HdikHRXnAs&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&feature=share&index=1 Not a parallel port in sight. :-)
[23:36:05] <sabotender> andypugh: what does it mean about 'toy design'?
[23:36:27] <Swapper_> andypugh: is 7i80 still only very beta ?
[23:36:35] <Swapper_> lcnc supportwise
[23:37:32] <andypugh> Swapper_: It is still pretty Beta. I definitely wouldn't be selling anything using it, but I would happily use it for my own systems
[23:37:35] <Bushman> andypugh: the noise was ruled out before
[23:37:53] <Swapper_> ok
[23:38:16] <Bushman> andypugh: we made extensive preventive steps to ensure there is no noise and it didn't change the end result
[23:38:45] <Bushman> andypugh: on osciloscope everything looks nice and dandy
[23:38:48] <andypugh> sabotender: Toy Designs are things that are not really any use for making stuff, but can be fun. Nobody needs a CNC etch-a-sketch
[23:39:05] <syyl-> :(
[23:40:01] <Bushman> we even established my version (red) of the TB6560 driver board has a lot better opto-couplers that allow me to use a lot higher speeds but the issue exist at any given speed
[23:40:04] <andypugh> Bushman: It's hard to see noise on a scope.
[23:40:13] <sabotender> andypugh: oh! I see! I never even thought of connecting an etch a sketch to CNC a fascinating concept though
[23:40:40] <Bushman> i've reduced the feed to 20mm/m and it still ended in wrong place at the end of the G-code
[23:41:20] <andypugh> Bushman: You could look at the counts in Halscope. That will be an accurate measure of how many steps the system has generated.
[23:41:44] <Bushman> andypugh: i have a quite nice scope and i can actually see the noise from my power tool but the thing is it happens even when the tool is OFF
[23:42:04] <Bushman> halscope?
[23:42:17] <Bushman> please tell me more?
[23:45:11] * Bushman is reading http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tools.html#_halscope_a_id_sec_halscope_a in hope that what he needs
[23:48:15] <rodfrey> andypugh: just as a test, trying to get access to the motion.spindle-on pin. In the MDI window:
[23:48:37] <rodfrey> ;py,h = hal.component("motion")
[23:48:57] <rodfrey> ;py,h.newpin("spindle-on", hal.HAL_BIT, hal.HAL_OUT)
[23:49:16] <rodfrey> gets an error - invalid argument.
[23:49:25] <rodfrey> Am I abusing the API?
[23:49:36] <andypugh> rodfrey: I haven't actually ever made hal pins in Python myself, I just know it can be done. (the UIs do it, for a start)
[23:50:02] <rodfrey> Are the uis in python? if so that's a really good place for me to look!
[23:50:28] <andypugh> I don't think you want to call your component "motion" though, that sounds bad.
[23:51:23] <andypugh> Well, Axis is a peculiar blend of Tcl and Python that few understand. But you could have a look at Gscreen
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