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[00:02:52] <PetefromTn_> yeah man I can smell the big ol' greasy burgers on the grill right now with some cris cut fries and sliced fruit... I am getting hungry too..
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[00:14:05] <cmorley> swapper: the pncconf fix is not released because 2.5.4 has not been released
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[00:38:27] <sabotender> should I get this and build my own:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PDJ-CNC-router-plans-kit-milling-machine-plasma-rapid-prototyping-projects-DVD-/291098901427
[00:38:32] <sabotender> it looks pretty impressive
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[00:41:48] <sabotender> looks like maybe the spindle and the stepper motors are the most expensive items in the project
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[01:02:32] <sabotender> is there a downside of using wood for the frame?
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[01:46:27] <zeeshan> IM SO GLAD I WENT
[01:46:31] <zeeshan> I HIT A JACKPOT
[01:46:50] <zeeshan> i picked up half the tools today
[01:47:00] <skunkworks> went?
[01:47:01] <zeeshan> the other halfd i gotta go and grab it with my friend cause they kennedy boxes are heavy
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[01:47:48] <zeeshan> http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-other-5-pc-Kennedy-machinist-mechanic-tool-box-W0QQAdIdZ574091748
[01:48:01] <zeeshan> each one of those drawers is packed with machinist tools
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[01:48:23] <zeeshan> i took the upper two boxes and some things from the bottom boxes
[01:48:38] <humble_sea_bass> what
[01:48:41] <zeeshan> but those bottom boxes are like very heavy and cant find in my car
[01:48:51] <zeeshan> what what
[01:49:02] <humble_sea_bass> you are a winner
[01:49:13] <zeeshan> yes ive been looking for over a year for a deal like this
[01:49:21] <zeeshan> where i could go snag a bunch of machinist measurement tools
[01:49:39] <zeeshan> what i got extra is almost 300 carbide inserts
[01:49:41] <zeeshan> with tool holders
[01:49:57] <zeeshan> i be happy
[01:50:10] <sabotender> okay so it looks like if I want a CNC MILL, it would be better for me to convert a manual mill, but if I want a CNC ROUTER, that one I could build myself
[01:50:40] <zeeshan> sabotender: i agree
[01:51:21] <sabotender> the mill can work with almost any material, but has limited range, the router can have great range, but materials are limited (maybe soft metals like aluminium)
[01:52:18] <zeeshan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Mitutoyo-511-162-Dial-Bore-Gage-2-4-Machinist-Tool-Box-Find-Indicator-/121294427227?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3db6145b
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[01:52:25] <zeeshan> the kit had this bore gauge too
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[01:52:29] <zeeshan> ive been looking for this forever
[01:52:37] <zeeshan> i hate telescoping gauges and inside mics
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[01:53:09] <sabotender> I am more leaning toward the router since I want this to mill PCBs and make prototype chasis for my electronic projects (of which would be made out of aluminium and/or plastic)
[01:53:31] <sabotender> zeeshan: would this information that I surmised be accurate?
[01:55:00] <humble_sea_bass> sabotender: you're not going to get crazy accuracy out of a router, but it will cut traces for your PCBs
[01:55:36] <humble_sea_bass> but for the money, silkscreening and etching will give you smaller finer results
[01:55:40] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: if I made it of solid materials (metal instead of wood)
[01:56:09] <humble_sea_bass> how much money are you willing to spend
[01:56:19] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: aye, this is probably true, however I still need something to make the prototype chasis
[01:56:31] * sabotender chuckles to himself. Not much to be honest
[01:56:50] <sabotender> I am willing to spend good money for a decent spindle and stepper motors though
[01:57:45] <zeeshan> if all you wanna do is pcb milling and light aluminum milling
[01:57:47] <zeeshan> i'd buy this:
[01:58:01] <humble_sea_bass> I dunno at what scale you work at, but I started using ammo cans as electronics chasis a long time ago, and they cannt be beat
[01:58:02] <zeeshan> https://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/
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[01:58:08] <sabotender> yeah, i can't imagine wanting anything else, really.
[01:58:10] <zeeshan> you're not gonna make something cheaper ;p
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[01:58:23] <zeeshan> unless you have the resourcess and access to cheap ass used parts
[01:58:25] <sabotender> zeeshan: see that thing is a bit expensive and it looks like it is missing a LOT of stuff
[01:58:28] <humble_sea_bass> yeah, "cheaper" is very expensive
[01:58:35] <sabotender> so that cheap price is a smoke screen
[01:58:53] <zeeshan> i dunno for the 2 things u want
[01:58:57] <zeeshan> i thinik that machine is more than planety
[01:59:03] <zeeshan> *plenty
[01:59:31] <zeeshan> you might be able to find a router like that used
[01:59:33] <humble_sea_bass> nema23 motors can be had for 30 bux a pop
[01:59:38] <sabotender> oh and the operational space is too small
[01:59:52] <sabotender> if I made my own I could build it larger
[02:00:01] <zeeshan> remember
[02:00:02] <zeeshan> the bigger you go
[02:00:03] <humble_sea_bass> and you can find DeWalt or Bosch trim routers on craigslist for nothing
[02:00:08] <zeeshan> then you cant use things like lead screws
[02:00:11] <zeeshan> you gotta go to rack and pinion
[02:00:30] <zeeshan> like anything bigger than 48" in either axis
[02:00:35] <zeeshan> is prolly better off with a rack and pinion
[02:00:46] <zeeshan> wth anti-backlash pinion
[02:01:07] <Connor_iPad> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc8.jpg
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[02:01:36] <Connor_iPad> My little cnc router. Using bosh colt trim router
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[02:02:18] <sabotender> oh 48" is too large
[02:02:19] <sabotender> lol
[02:02:22] <sabotender> not that big
[02:02:37] <PetefromTn_Andro> 48 is just getting started LOL...
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[02:03:12] <Connor_iPad> 32" x 24 foot print. 18" x 12" work envelop.
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[02:03:27] <sabotender> im just saying that I might be able to save some money if I just built my own, and then I can tailor the parts to my needs
[02:03:37] <sabotender> you know, getting a good spindle and stepper motors
[02:03:48] <humble_sea_bass> You're awfully worried about saving "money"
[02:03:58] <humble_sea_bass> this is the wrong line of work/hobby
[02:04:13] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: eh this is for hobbiest work
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[02:05:25] <PetefromTn_Andro> Build yourself a mechmate and be done with it hehehe
[02:05:40] <sabotender> money doesnt always equal quality. You have to factor in the labour as well. when you are buying pre made, there is labour costs, packing, shipping, etc etc etc
[02:06:22] <humble_sea_bass> ok. so build something that makes you happy
[02:06:43] <sabotender> many people don't have the time/patience to assemble things. right now, all I have IS time
[02:06:58] <sabotender> i missed some comments, let me scroll up
[02:07:27] <PetefromTn_Andro> Unfortunately in my experience money Usually does equal quality problem is I never seem to have enough ...;)
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[02:08:30] <sabotender> PetefromTn_Andro: so are you saying that grandma's homemade cookies can't be on par with the tasty girl scout cookies?
[02:08:46] <humble_sea_bass> yeah i'm always 200 bux from being able to shave another thou off
[02:09:37] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: thats a sexy router
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[02:09:47] <Connor_iPad> Thanks.
[02:09:59] <PetefromTn_Andro> Well actually I don't like Girl scout cookies and my Grandma was the best cook on the planet but I thought we were talking about CNC machines here LOL.
[02:10:01] <humble_sea_bass> sabotender: what we are saying is that you need to find a friend with a CNC mill/router to cut a bunch of parts out for you so you can make your mill
[02:10:11] <humble_sea_bass> otherwise, you're not going to be saving much
[02:10:35] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: how well does that cut metal?
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[02:11:37] <Connor_iPad> Never tried. Made for wood and plastic. Probably could cut thin sheet profile.
[02:11:49] <Connor_iPad> But wouldnt try anything else.
[02:12:23] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: maybe, I still think some pieces can be purchased locally
[02:13:35] <humble_sea_bass> git 'er done
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[02:15:41] <sabotender> HOWEVER
[02:15:53] <sabotender> ive had my eye on the v90 for ages and ages
[02:16:01] <humble_sea_bass> git 'er done
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[02:16:21] <sabotender> but I have received mixed reviews about it
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[02:17:49] <Connor_iPad> I think os1r1s has a v90.
[02:17:58] <sabotender> what do you have, humble_sea_bass ?
[02:19:10] <humble_sea_bass> a wee taig mill and bridgeport manual
[02:20:20] <sabotender> heard good things about the bridgeports
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[02:20:38] <humble_sea_bass> if you have the room for it, which i don't
[02:20:44] <sabotender> is it convertible?
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[02:21:17] <sabotender> oh i see, hum
[02:21:21] <Connor_iPad> The z can be tricky.
[02:21:24] <humble_sea_bass> i'm sure it is, but the cost of doing sowould be best spent elsewhere
[02:21:33] <os1r1s> Connor_iPad: I do
[02:21:33] <os1r1s> Among others
[02:21:54] <sabotender> os1r1s: sweet! I would like you to tell me every little thing about it!
[02:22:05] <Connor_iPad> What are its capabilites with regards to aluminum?
[02:22:10] <os1r1s> Do you have any cnc machines?
[02:22:16] <os1r1s> sabotender: ^
[02:22:27] <sabotender> me, naw. I need one though
[02:22:31] <sabotender> like NEED
[02:22:51] <os1r1s> sabotender: What type of material do you intend to cut and what are the maximum dimensions?
[02:23:24] <sabotender> well. I can make-do with the tiny dimensions of the v90 if it can at least cut aluminium
[02:24:49] <os1r1s> sabotender: If you want small in size, why get a v90?
[02:25:12] <sabotender> os1r1s: no I want large in size
[02:25:14] <os1r1s> If you want to cut al, I'd recommend a vertical mill and not a gantry router
[02:25:18] <PetefromTn_Andro> http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s83/matospeter/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140313_221246_zpscrxwvigi.jpg my dog on my bed just now LOL
[02:25:53] <os1r1s> sabotender: You can cut al on the v90. I do not. You'll need a superpid to lower the speed of the router. You'll also need to take shallow passes.
[02:25:53] <sabotender> os1r1s: mills don't have enough workable range for me
[02:26:09] <os1r1s> sabotender: What is the max size you want to cut?
[02:27:04] <Connor_iPad> What size and thickness are you wanting to do in alumn?
[02:27:12] <sabotender> well, if it were 18x18x3 that would be nice
[02:27:48] <os1r1s> sabotender: You'll never cut somethin gthat large on a v90
[02:27:57] <os1r1s> Most you can do is 12x16x1.5
[02:28:00] <os1r1s> And that is pushing it
[02:28:07] <sabotender> oh i know
[02:28:12] <os1r1s> The 1.5 is because of the bit height
[02:28:20] <sabotender> you asked me the max size in general
[02:28:43] <os1r1s> What are the normal thicknesses?
[02:29:24] <os1r1s> bbiab
[02:29:27] <sabotender> see so the v90 is out of the question. oh less than an inch. .5 inch maximum probably not even that.
[02:30:05] <sabotender> I want to build custom chasis for my electrical projects
[02:32:55] <Connor_iPad> Outmof alumn?
[02:32:59] <Connor_iPad> Out of.
[02:33:19] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: some of them, yes. most will be plastic, however
[02:33:45] <Connor_iPad> Sounds like you need both a mill and a router.
[02:33:58] <sabotender> for thin sheet metal? nonsense
[02:34:00] <Connor_iPad> Sometimes one machine cant so it all.
[02:34:26] <Connor_iPad> It will do thin sheet met
[02:34:30] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: what I want is something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PDJ-CNC-router-plans-kit-milling-machine-plasma-rapid-prototyping-projects-DVD-/291098901427
[02:34:35] <Connor_iPad> Aluminum.
[02:35:06] <sabotender> that right there is exactly what I need, actually
[02:35:27] <sabotender> I just can't get anyone knowledgeable to comment on it
[02:35:54] <os1r1s> sabotender: I would suggest you reconsider how you are designing the boxes
[02:36:01] <os1r1s> You can do them in layers or panels
[02:36:02] <Connor_iPad> You might look at a 3020 or 6040. Not sure how good they are. But they're made out of alumn instead of MDF
[02:36:04] <os1r1s> I do both
[02:36:28] <Connor_iPad> Because those are just plans.
[02:37:00] <Connor_iPad> You might try researching on CNCZone.
[02:37:20] <Connor_iPad> Lots of threads on routers and mills.
[02:37:43] <sabotender> right, I know those are just plans
[02:37:54] <PetefromTn_Andro> What was the name of that sweet little tabletop router the Guy was selling on the zone that was kinda mdf but stressed box and could cut aluminum?
[02:38:02] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: im sorry, a 3020 or 6040 what?
[02:38:16] <Connor_iPad> Chinese gantry router.
[02:38:18] <os1r1s> sabotender: Or you could call probotix and tell them what you want to do and ask them their opinion
[02:38:30] <os1r1s> Service for the sale
[02:38:40] <os1r1s> Send them a model, get their opinion
[02:38:49] <jdh> http://www.carving-cnc.com/cnc6040-series.html
[02:38:57] <Connor_iPad> That too. But. A SuperPID will most likely be needed.
[02:39:08] <os1r1s> Connor_iPad: I use a superpid on mine
[02:39:13] <Connor_iPad> To slow down the spindle so you don't burn up the bit.
[02:39:37] <PetefromTn_Andro> Can't ya just feed faster?
[02:39:57] <os1r1s> PetefromTn_Andro: Not fast enought to make 30k viable
[02:39:58] <os1r1s> enough
[02:40:05] <Connor_iPad> To a point. But, no feedback on the speed.
[02:40:13] <sabotender> Connor_iPad: I thought those chinese routers were craptastic?
[02:40:44] <Connor_iPad> I didn't say that. Someone else said that. And that's a relative word.
[02:40:51] <PetefromTn_Andro> Nobody remembers what they were called?
[02:40:59] <Connor_iPad> Compared to nothing. I'd say they're pretty good. :)
[02:41:20] <jdh> they are probably better than mine
[02:41:25] <Connor_iPad> PetefromTn_Andro: I know which one your talking about I think. But no. Can't remember.
[02:41:28] <os1r1s> sabotender: fwiw, I really like the widgitmaster routers
[02:41:33] <sabotender> see, i'd buy one of those too, but everytime I asked for an opinion I was told no no no :-P
[02:41:45] <os1r1s> sabotender: Doubt you can find the large one, but if you can it would do the job
[02:42:18] <Connor_iPad> I wouldn't use the electronics package. The stepper drivers suck.
[02:42:32] <Connor_iPad> I would use a gecko or mx3660 on one.
[02:42:45] <jdh> http://www.carving-cnc.com/accessories/cnc-router-mainbody/6040mainbody.html
[02:42:46] <Connor_iPad> And drive it with LinuxCNC :)
[02:42:50] <jdh> no electronics
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[02:43:32] <PetefromTn_Andro> It has fixed sides and a moving table and the y ran on tensioned rails like the table neat design I always thought would be nice machined from aluminum plate....
[02:44:51] <Connor_iPad> CarveOne ?
[02:45:16] <Connor_iPad> That sounds right. I think that was the name. CarveOne.
[02:45:17] <PetefromTn_Andro> No that's not it...I can't remember the damn name.
[02:46:26] <PetefromTn_Andro> He was selling them online and he designed the thing to fit into a shipping box or something. It was no motors or electronics.
[02:47:18] <Connor_iPad> Go to zone and look it up.
[02:47:46] <sabotender> wow i like that 6040 mainbody
[02:48:02] <sabotender> those steppers look a bit suspect though
[02:48:14] <jdh> g540 and a PSU
[02:48:29] <jdh> they could be replaced if so.
[02:48:30] <Connor_iPad> Looked like they may have encoders? Couldn't tell.
[02:48:35] <Connor_iPad> Maybe just caps.
[02:48:40] <jdh> looks like plastic manual knobs
[02:49:12] <Connor_iPad> Might be able to get them to sell it without the steppes and get some Keling steppers
[02:49:44] <sabotender> you see thats what I would do, get the body then get good quality steppers and spindle
[02:50:34] <jdh> it is $60 less without the steppers. But also less stepper mounts and couplers
[02:51:47] <Connor_iPad> Oh check them too.
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router
[02:53:37] <sabotender> mmm....
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl6060-desktop-cnc-router-with-3-stepper-motors-2
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[02:57:19] <sabotender> but isn't a good spindle going to cost me at least 300 USD?
[02:57:36] <jdh> or 400
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[03:02:24] <PetefromTn_Andro> GN8 folks
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[03:05:32] <sabotender> looks like that is also sans motor driving circuits
[03:05:52] <sabotender> which is no problem; as that is inexpensive
[03:05:54] <Connor_iPad> They import stuff.
[03:07:57] <sabotender> hmm. I could totally afford that
[03:17:26] <toastyde1th> hey, has anyone here installed lustre
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[03:26:49] <sabotender> im totally getting the 6040 :-D
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[03:34:39] <sabotender> hey anyone still about?
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[03:53:35] <tjtr33> skunkworks, the new Surplus Center catalog came, and has those cabinet fans for 9$ ( procrastination works! )
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[07:59:37] <Deejay> moin
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[08:39:31] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:17:57] <Swapper_> cmorley: if i go ahead and run 2.5 branch (stable) from
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ will that include the patched version och pncconf
[10:18:18] <Swapper_> of pncconf ?
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[10:31:42] <jthornton> patched for?
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[12:41:55] <Swapper_> fixing a bug with mesa 5i25 + 7i77 and pncconf
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[13:20:55] <JT-Shop> my guess is not
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[16:01:09] <JT-Shop> crap, my plasma torch is not firing...
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[16:39:38] <Swapper_> cmorley: it works with latest from build bot (regarding the pncconf bug)
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[17:22:54] <sabotender> can i use a parallel to usb adapter with a cnc router or must there be a parallel port on my computer?
[17:23:30] <archivist> usb parallel port aint gonna work
[17:23:55] <sabotender> i didn't think so
[17:24:57] <archivist> usb allows dead phases for connection detection
[17:25:16] <archivist> device discovery etc
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[17:26:01] <sabotender> ah i see. well, PCI parallel port cards are cheap
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[17:27:21] <sabotender> because none of my computers have parallel ports :-P
[17:28:44] <CaptHindsight> sabotender: most of the PCI/e to LPT cards work if you connect them directly to stepper drivers
[17:29:53] <CaptHindsight> some have flaky hardware and won't work well connected to a FPGA
[17:30:16] <sabotender> I wonder if express card parallel port would work too :-P
[17:30:32] <sabotender> then I could use my notebook instead
[17:31:18] <Jymmm> laptops have power management which time splice/pause real time operations
[17:31:22] <CaptHindsight> if your notebook has low enough latency, run the test and see
[17:31:32] <sabotender> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Parallel-Port-PCMCIA-Card/dp/B000SR2H4W/ref=pd_sim_e_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1RP04EGNHW4SS1NRFEC0
[17:31:52] <CaptHindsight> so far only a few have been discovered to work fast enough
[17:32:00] <jdh> run the latency test first. doubtful it will work
[17:33:20] <CaptHindsight> it's highly doubtful on that old of a laptop
[17:33:30] <sabotender> wait so I buy the card and then run the latency test?
[17:34:16] <CaptHindsight> run the test before buying anything
[17:34:48] <CaptHindsight> pop in the Livecd and run the latency test
[17:35:01] <sabotender> right, but how do I run the test? what is it called so I can find it on google
[17:35:22] <CaptHindsight> it's in the menu on the Livecd
[17:35:46] <CaptHindsight> LATENCY TEST
[17:36:05] <sabotender> what live cd? a random linux live cd?
[17:37:06] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/download
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[17:37:36] <sabotender> oh sweet :-D
[17:38:15] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/install/Latency_Test.html
[17:40:35] <sabotender> you will have to forgive me, as I am new-ish to the CNC world. I am getting my first router after careful research
[17:41:21] <sabotender> I am getting the 6040 cnc router
[17:46:31] <archivist> what are you intending to machine on it
[17:49:02] <jdh> heh... 'careful research' and 'getting a 6040'
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[17:55:37] <CaptHindsight> sabotender: those are ok for cutting thin or softer materials
[17:56:02] <CaptHindsight> quality is hit or miss
[17:57:17] <CaptHindsight> the only part anodized is sometimes the t-slot so they look pretty rough out of the box
[17:58:45] <CaptHindsight> they mount the motors with a bolt as a spacer, not sure what that is about
[17:59:38] <CaptHindsight> so there is a gap the thickness of the bolts between the face of the motors and the mount
[18:00:18] <CaptHindsight> maybe it's because they don't bother to machine the mount to match the face of the motor
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[18:03:24] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[18:09:02] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: I doubt I would be cutting anything harder than aluminium
[18:09:31] <IchGuckLive> alu is a tricky thing
[18:09:34] <archivist> aluminium is hard for some machines
[18:09:37] <sabotender> most of my chasis will be plastic, but some of my plans definitely call for metal parts and aluminium will suit just fine
[18:10:05] <IchGuckLive> some hard alu will be more cutable then the cheep chees alu
[18:10:06] <CaptHindsight> anything more than aluminum sheet and you will be disappointed
[18:10:16] <sabotender> archivist: I have seen youtube videos of the 6040 and they cut aluminium just fine
[18:10:48] <CaptHindsight> some of us work with very high precision machines
[18:10:48] <archivist> depends on the ally
[18:11:11] <CaptHindsight> there's cutting and cutting with precision
[18:11:39] <CaptHindsight> some people just expect miracles from budget machines
[18:11:46] <sabotender> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xkqel2Dq8
[18:11:48] <CaptHindsight> we just want you to be realistic
[18:12:36] <sabotender> that appears to be doing a fantastic job
[18:12:39] <humble_sea_bass> sabo has been here since 10pm last night talking in circles about he is just going to build a machine for next to nothing
[18:13:02] <sabotender> I said I *could* and it was an *option*
[18:13:22] <humble_sea_bass> git 'er done
[18:13:37] <sabotender> you keep saying that like its some clever quip
[18:13:44] <IchGuckLive> so sabotender what is your buged
[18:13:54] <CaptHindsight> budget
[18:14:59] <sabotender> which it isn't. I am doing research and just because you spent thousands on a router doesn't mean I have to. my intentions are realistic and simple. And I shouldn't have to defend my decision. Not all of the inexpensive routers are crap, and I am sorry that your experience has led you to believe it is
[18:15:01] <CaptHindsight> that knob took only 11 hrs on that machine :)
[18:15:24] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: are yoiu in the UK
[18:15:48] <archivist> as a cheap person, I built my own machine
[18:15:56] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: no, I am in the US. my budget is maybe 1.5 - 2k
[18:16:01] <IchGuckLive> archivist as we all do
[18:16:32] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: thats very high
[18:16:36] <sabotender> I don't know why some people in here beilieve that i have to spend 6k just to get a quality machine.
[18:16:44] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: do you got any masies to make parts
[18:16:51] <archivist> sabotender, you dont
[18:17:13] <archivist> I used scrap parts from other machines
[18:17:28] <humble_sea_bass> I think we showed you the fireball v90 and you shat on it because the 600 dollar price tag doesnt includ 120 bux worth of motors
[18:17:30] <sabotender> CaptHindsight and humble_sea_bass seem to believe so, and they get pissy when I show them the possibilities of the cheaper machines.
[18:17:42] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: and I told you that the v90 is too small
[18:17:50] <sabotender> the 6040 is the size I need
[18:18:10] <CaptHindsight> yikes, is that what you got out of my comments?
[18:18:15] <IchGuckLive> thats a good size
[18:18:26] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: what state are you
[18:19:05] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: yes, I did. because you were saying that those machines absolutely could *not* cut aluminum, and when I show you that your assumptions are false, you have another negative quip to throw in
[18:19:30] <humble_sea_bass> hah
[18:19:33] <sabotender> its just exhausting filtering though the bs, when I am trying to have a civilised conversation is all
[18:19:52] <humble_sea_bass> you can cut aluminum by pissing on it, you're just gonna have to let it rip for a while
[18:20:14] <IchGuckLive> did you lok for a toolshop next to your location that buidas this mashines
[18:20:22] <CaptHindsight> sabotender: I said those things?
[18:20:46] <CaptHindsight> sabotender: are you a native English speaker?
[18:21:12] <IchGuckLive> 6040 is made all over the USA
[18:21:28] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: yeah I noticed
[18:21:40] <IchGuckLive> by the way im in Germany
[18:22:20] <IchGuckLive> so lets get mire detailed you need at least a 8025 frame set
[18:22:49] <IchGuckLive> you need to cut good parts a ballscrewLeadscrew dor all 3 axis
[18:23:52] <IchGuckLive> and a 3Nm 450Oz steppers
[18:23:54] <sabotender> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng9LCBZK89g there is another pretty cool vid of the 6040
[18:24:24] <IchGuckLive> i asume to go for leadshine M880A and 80V
[18:24:37] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: wait, what are you talking about again?
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[18:24:46] <IchGuckLive> this gives you a very good performence
[18:25:01] <jdh> I have also researched 6040's and will be getting one anyway.
[18:25:17] <IchGuckLive> a timingbelt gearsystem at 20/25
[18:25:38] <CaptHindsight> lol
[18:25:58] <IchGuckLive> sabotender:
http://foengarage.de/gears2.html
[18:26:45] <IchGuckLive> this is why you need the gear to get the 400steps of your stepper into a good performence
[18:27:17] <sabotender> oh nice :-D
[18:27:18] <IchGuckLive> in metric you are at the best milling performence on this setup
[18:28:02] <IchGuckLive> and for milling you only need parport so electronics charge is 50USD
[18:28:22] <jdh> sabotender: you shoulc get teh carving-cnc 6040 mainbody, a G540 + 48v PSU + spindle/vfd from ebay
[18:28:31] <IchGuckLive> with your high budget you can go mesa 5i25/7i76 and have best ever choce
[18:28:35] <jdh> then let me know how it works before I buy the same.
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[18:29:09] <jdh> Ich: you think mesa really adds anything if you are not at p-port speed limits?
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[18:30:03] <IchGuckLive> this is how capt kthk will buy you the mashine
[18:30:05] <IchGuckLive> http://s.taobao.com/search?q=carving-cnc+6040&app=detail
[18:30:21] <IchGuckLive> 700USD complede
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[18:33:51] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass:
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9462035
[18:34:04] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: its the JapanChina amazon
[18:34:21] <sabotender> give me a moment, I am trying to make bkfst. I am not ignoring you lot
[18:35:13] <JT-Shop> anyone fix my plasma while I was gone?
[18:35:29] <IchGuckLive> im the plasma fixer ;-)
[18:35:47] <IchGuckLive> as now maybe 15 plasma owner call here to fix
[18:35:48] <CaptHindsight> did you tun it of and on again?
[18:36:23] <IchGuckLive> look an the Gnd Chain if it still grounded
[18:36:24] <JT-Shop> yes
[18:36:32] <humble_sea_bass> cap i saw that
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[18:36:42] <humble_sea_bass> very exciting@
[18:37:05] <humble_sea_bass> the anti-vaxx crowd is a treat
[18:38:09] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: do you got access via your company towards tabao
[18:38:22] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: same as you
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[18:38:57] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: what helps is having locals deal with better pricing or problems
[18:39:01] <IchGuckLive> i only go a person in HK that tryes to get the best shiment
[18:40:48] <CaptHindsight> I've stood there for an hour watching them haggle over <$1 for one part
[18:41:03] <IchGuckLive> agree on that
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[18:41:24] <IchGuckLive> L297 driver boards for 1USD
[18:41:28] <humble_sea_bass> I've never used taobao
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[18:42:30] <CaptHindsight> Chinese Amazon but more difficult with returns
[18:42:30] <IchGuckLive> best ship i reatched order 9am Friday Berlin time Delivery from HK via airmail on thusday 10am
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[18:42:37] <humble_sea_bass> how is it compared to aliexpress
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[18:42:59] <CaptHindsight> taobao is what the locals use
[18:43:08] <CaptHindsight> aliexpress is for exports
[18:43:08] <humble_sea_bass> the shippers from aliexpress use the slow boat so it is like two weeks to nyc at least
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[18:43:50] <IchGuckLive> 2weeks is ok for our parts almost
[18:44:19] <humble_sea_bass> but i need those DIN connectors NOW
[18:44:27] <CaptHindsight> EMS from China is under a week
[18:44:30] <IchGuckLive> but as capt said it may be some fake parts
[18:44:37] <humble_sea_bass> (by need I mean want)
[18:45:07] <IchGuckLive> i got a M880a delivery that dident make the timing
[18:45:08] <CaptHindsight> Fedex and DHL from China is ~2 days
[18:45:33] <humble_sea_bass> Fedex costs a fortune usually on ali
[18:45:43] <IchGuckLive> agree on that on 40USD charge
[18:45:58] <CaptHindsight> Fedex and DHL to China is 3-5 days, it's always faster out of China than into China
[18:47:21] <sabotender> alright! I have returned, with food :-D
[18:47:27] <sabotender> let me scroll up
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[18:47:41] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: no need internal discussion
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[18:48:12] <sabotender> jdh: I wanted to go that route, but I don't know how to differentiate a good stepper and spindle from a poor one.
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[18:48:24] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: what state are you
[18:48:51] <IchGuckLive> lets find one in your driving range
[18:49:18] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: I prefer to order my loot online
[18:49:33] <sabotender> I don't mind the shipping times
[18:49:37] <IchGuckLive> ok up to you
[18:49:39] <humble_sea_bass> "loot"
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[18:50:44] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass doesn't seem to like that word. Fine. Stuff. Merchandise. Things. Equipment. Parts. Components. Items.
[18:51:04] <humble_sea_bass> I was playing Zork
[18:51:18] <humble_sea_bass> i have no idea what you're talking about
[18:51:29] <IchGuckLive> what experiency in electronic mantainance do you got sabotender
[18:51:55] <sabotender> IchGuckLive: great. I have an ee degree. Recent graduate.
[18:52:15] <IchGuckLive> ok so 500USD for the main 6040 frame
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[18:52:28] <IchGuckLive> and build your Alu mill on your own
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[18:52:55] <IchGuckLive> going the way i anounced earlyer
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[18:53:21] <CaptHindsight> 50F going to the beach!
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[18:53:50] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: surfe boards are outside torrance ca
[18:53:53] <sabotender> right, and buy the other parts separately.
[18:54:11] <sabotender> that is what jdh was saying
[18:54:34] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: any developments on the reader?
[18:54:52] <IchGuckLive> 80V leadshine M880 and a 2005 ballscrew setup
[18:55:16] <IchGuckLive> sabotender: at 450+ Oz steppers
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[18:56:27] <humble_sea_bass> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9GBZ2qNvDs
[18:56:50] <humble_sea_bass> i got over the flu so as of this evening I'll get to work
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[19:04:55] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE have a nice milling suturday its rainy here so i will run all 3 mills tomorrow cutting wood boards
[19:04:59] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I'm building some paste extruders now
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[19:05:44] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: they can print the polymers
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[19:07:47] <humble_sea_bass> I'd really like to get more involved with that sort of equipment
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[19:08:34] <humble_sea_bass> is that what the new leadshine driver is for?
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[19:08:56] <jdh> good stepper is easy to find.
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[19:09:47] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: sort of, I just wanted to try it for some low end stepper driven printers
[19:10:13] <CaptHindsight> i just don't want any warranty or support issues for 2+ years
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[19:13:36] <sabotender> i think he means 'a' 450+ oz stepper, not 'at'
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[19:14:07] <jdh> get them from keling
[19:14:17] <jdh> and get a g540 for simplicity
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[19:15:40] <humble_sea_bass> [M f6the g540 + kellings make the most annoying noise on idle
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[19:16:15] <CaptHindsight> the keilings are all leadshines
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[19:17:48] <humble_sea_bass> yeah. that was a revelation
[19:18:09] <jdh> all cheap drives look like leadshines. or are they clones
[19:18:41] <CaptHindsight> humble_sea_bass: I have to find a balance between driving voltage and deflection
[19:19:39] <CaptHindsight> 2-4KV drive is going to make layout more difficult, <1KV with 0.5mm deflection is the goal
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[19:20:26] <sabotender> is it my imagination or are those 450 Oz steppers 300 USD a pop?
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[19:21:54] <sabotender> I don't know. maybe that is a size specification
[19:22:53] <humble_sea_bass> you think you'd get any arcing between hi and lo pins
[19:23:41] <CaptHindsight> it's very low current, and it's insulated by the same or similar material
[19:24:33] <sabotender> jdh: can you give me more information about this '450 oz' whatever?
[19:24:38] <sabotender> I can't find much about them on google
[19:24:45] <CaptHindsight> that's the down side of many of the polymers, the voltage required
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[19:25:40] <CaptHindsight> living muscle is low voltage
[19:27:11] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Stepper_Motors_-z-_Cables/STP-MTR-34066
[19:27:32] <CaptHindsight> 434 oz-in $111.00
[19:28:15] <CaptHindsight> 861 oz-in $140.00
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motion_Control/Stepper_Systems/Stepper_Motors_-z-_Cables/STP-MTRH-34097
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[19:31:43] <humble_sea_bass> tragic magic
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[19:35:02] <sabotender> i'll have to choose a different stepper because i cant find any info on the ones there were suggested to me
[19:35:33] <humble_sea_bass> what was suggested to you
[19:35:52] <humble_sea_bass> Leadshines?
[19:35:54] <sabotender> a 450 oz, whatever that is
[19:36:19] <humble_sea_bass> yeah get the whatever that ises, those are teh best
[19:36:44] <sabotender> O_o
[19:37:59] <sabotender> I'll ask someone else
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[19:40:20] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34/nema-34-high-torque-stepper-motor-single-shaft NEMA34 465 oz-in
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[19:41:34] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34/nema34-1805ozin-8-8a-cncstepper-motor NEMA34 1805oz/in
[19:41:35] <sabotender> OH the WEIGHT
[19:42:05] <sabotender> he was referring to the weight
[19:42:51] <CaptHindsight> http://www.aqua-calc.com/what-is/linear-density/ounce-per-inch
[19:42:56] <archivist> oz in is the torque
[19:43:09] <sabotender> ah! even better!
[19:43:44] <sabotender> I did not know this since ive never actually played with a stepper motor before
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[19:43:56] <CaptHindsight> http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/tutorials/torque/Q.torque.intro.html
[19:44:09] <sabotender> I know what torque is
[19:45:26] <CaptHindsight> https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/torque.html I wish we had this when i was a kid
[19:46:13] <Loetmichel> you americans and your strange units ;-)
[19:46:22] <CaptHindsight> referring to the website, we had torque :)
[19:46:29] <sabotender> archivist: thank you very much for clarifying things
[19:47:00] <sabotender> so any stepper motor that provides at LEAST that much torque would be suitable
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[19:49:02] <archivist> you need enough torque to avoid lost steps but over specifying gives a slower maximum rpm for the stepper
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[19:49:20] <archivist> so....depends
[19:49:39] <sabotender> ah, gotta find that sweet spot
[19:49:54] <humble_sea_bass> like the 10 crack commandments
[19:50:04] <Loetmichel> archivist: that can be cured with more voltage ;-)
[19:50:14] <sabotender> so I can expect to spend ~210 on a trio of good steppers
[19:50:40] <archivist> not cured but improved
[19:50:57] <humble_sea_bass> yes sabo, 3*70 dictates that to be the case
[19:50:57] <sabotender> and that g540 is 300 usd
[19:51:36] <archivist> I use the leadshine drives
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[19:52:56] <CaptHindsight> sabotender: please post pics or vids when you're done
[19:53:14] <CaptHindsight> it's always interesting to see the final results
[19:53:56] <sabotender> CaptHindsight: I will definitely, but I want to make sure I have a complete parts list before I start buying stuff
[19:54:10] <humble_sea_bass> http://image.thefabricator.com/a/safety-in-jet-cutting-jet-cutting-hazard-sign.jpg
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[19:55:05] <sabotender> the frame itself is 838 usd, and i have to stay within budget for the rest of the stuff
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[19:55:14] <CaptHindsight> for even fingers place hand into the jet
[19:55:25] <CaptHindsight> what i got out of it anyway
[19:56:15] <humble_sea_bass> finger hemming
[19:57:08] <sabotender> wait, what?
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[20:01:00] <sabotender> archivist: what does 'phase' refer to?
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[20:01:13] <sabotender> a complete revolution?
[20:02:08] <humble_sea_bass> you know when kids become teenagers
[20:02:08] <archivist> relation between two signals
[20:02:08] <humble_sea_bass> and they all of a sudden hate their parents
[20:02:08] <humble_sea_bass> of when they start wearing all black
[20:03:09] <archivist> often stepper coils are referred to in that way as they are wound at a magnetic angle to each other
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[20:03:24] <sabotender> archivist: ah i see. so would it make any difference if I got a 2 or 3 phase stepper drive?
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[20:13:52] -barjavel.freenode.net:#linuxcnc- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff:
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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[20:14:20] <Jymmm> sabotender: Whatever you plan or budget for, triple it for actual expenses.
[20:14:39] <sabotender> Jymmm: salami.
[20:14:51] <archivist> CaptHindsight, that is a broken web page
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[20:15:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.engineersgarage.com/articles/stepper-motors
[20:15:26] <archivist> sent my browser silly
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[20:15:49] <CaptHindsight> maybe some fun with JS or cookies
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[20:16:25] <sabotender> very informative.
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[20:16:43] <archivist> I think so I heard the disk drive get busy and the display was odd, I killed it quick
[20:17:20] <CaptHindsight> archivist: omega.com link?
[20:17:39] <archivist> yes
[20:18:38] <CaptHindsight> only 3 trackers
[20:19:12] <CaptHindsight> not my site but I just tried it with firefox and chrome without issues
[20:19:29] <archivist> yes but how busy and how much memory is that page using, there are some bad js web2 things about
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[20:20:46] <CaptHindsight> http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/
[20:21:09] <sabotender> archivist: do you have any resources where I could get this information?
[20:21:53] <archivist> someone is feeding you resources at the moment :)
[20:22:10] <sabotender> wait, what?
[20:22:24] <sabotender> it mustve gone right over my head. let me check
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[20:23:57] <archivist> and my fav
http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[20:25:46] <sabotender> oh but thats not what i am looking for
[20:26:18] <humble_sea_bass> we require more resources
[20:26:29] <sabotender> I am an electrical engineer, not a mechanical, so many of mechanical concepts baffle me.
[20:26:51] <sabotender> I meant making sure I have all the parts to construct a complete router
[20:26:54] <humble_sea_bass> it is all tubes man
[20:27:35] <sabotender> since it was suggested that I just buy the mainbody and get the other parts separate. I am trying to find info about what other 'parts' i need
[20:27:54] <humble_sea_bass> you focus on a subsystem, strt gettin' 'er done till you can't get 'er done no more because something is missing
[20:28:01] <sabotender> I know that I need a stepper driver, 3 stepper motors, and a spindle. I need the software too, but I know I am missing stuff
[20:28:28] <sabotender> like...bushings and washers and bolts and nuts and other stuff that makes me dizzy thinking about
[20:29:25] <sabotender> humble_sea_bass: that's a craptastic way to go about something. I hate starting a project just to discover that something is missing
[20:29:30] <sabotender> I like to be prepared
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[20:30:49] <CaptHindsight> whoever suggested that probably didn't realize how uncomfortable you are with it
[20:31:17] <sabotender> especially when I am going to be spending as much money as I am going to
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[20:31:55] <archivist> I have made kits and stuff from scratch, not sure either is "best"
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[20:33:40] <humble_sea_bass> i actually keep stock of useful things so I just go to my tool box drawers and I continue to get 'er done
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[20:34:46] <archivist> I do feel for the run out of x sized screw error
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[20:35:25] <humble_sea_bass> whatever you budget, tripple it
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[20:35:54] <sabotender> sausage.
[20:35:58] <humble_sea_bass> the incidental costs are 3x whatever number you come up with
[20:36:26] <CaptHindsight> no more feeding racehorses
[20:36:34] <sabotender> thats why it might be best for me to get a complete set
[20:37:44] <archivist> do you have any manual lathe and drill etc
[20:38:05] <sabotender> no lathe but i have a drill
[20:38:27] <humble_sea_bass> get a rep rap, I hear those are real sweet machines and come with everything you ever needed in a box with ikea like illustrations
[20:38:52] <archivist> reasonable motor mounts need a lathe or mill so get ready made
[20:39:11] <sabotender> ikea instructions are not very good
[20:39:27] <humble_sea_bass> bite your tongue
[20:39:55] <sabotender> and their stuff is too expensive for the quality offered
[20:40:11] <humble_sea_bass> http://global3.memecdn.com/Ikea-instructions-to-babby_o_68360.webp
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[20:50:18] <Swapper_> anyone know how to get what encoder is on what block in the 7i77 ?
[20:50:49] <Swapper_> it says Muxed encoder 0 in pncconf but i dont get what pins ?
[20:52:09] <sabotender> archivist: so you dont think this set is satisfactory:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROFESSIONAL-3-AXISES-6040-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-p9-/170795467640?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c4340378
[20:55:01] <archivist> sabotender, depends what one is intending to make
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[20:56:56] <archivist> but I do wonder why at that price they cant be bothered to get the text etc right
[20:57:29] <sabotender> archivist: what? just simple stuff! chassis for my electrical projects, maybe etch PCBs, some sheet aluminium milling
[20:57:38] <sabotender> yeah i was looking at that
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[20:59:11] <archivist> and there are reports of having to align the things when they arrive
[20:59:25] <sabotender> the chassis are important
[20:59:51] <sabotender> whats wrong with aligning? hardware aligning or software?
[21:00:26] <archivist> the chassis alignment I am talking about, out of square
[21:00:45] <sabotender> you mean..its warped?
[21:00:49] <sabotender> lop-sided?
[21:01:08] <archivist> that picture does not show the rail mounting method either
[21:02:27] <sabotender> heh. long life circle
[21:04:04] <humble_sea_bass> what engineering school did you go to
[21:04:11] <sabotender> im not sure what that means, but it sounds important (rail-mounting method)
[21:04:29] <archivist> that and an arrow to the gantry and calling it an engraver
[21:04:37] <sabotender> hehe
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[21:05:45] <archivist> the round bar types are either end mounted (liable to chatter/vibrate) or full length supported (ok)
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[21:08:06] <sabotender> ah i see
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[21:08:51] <sabotender> soo...that's a bad set :-(
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[21:38:26] <PCW_> Swapper_ 7I77 manual page 4 shows the encoder numbers
[21:39:29] <PCW_> (and pages 7-8)
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[21:57:47] <Deejay> gn8
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[23:03:13] <andypugh> So, what machining sequence for these? I really can't decide.
http://imagebin.org/299390
[23:03:23] <andypugh> (note that the edges are not parallel)
[23:09:10] <andypugh> I think the best plan might be to part-cut the profile with the flat side up, do the convex radii, then finish the cutting-put, them put them in a fixture logated by the big oval hole.
[23:10:21] <andypugh> (slightly awkwardly they are mirror-images in their taper)
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[23:12:43] <toastyde1th> i'd cut all the features on the non-sunk side first
[23:12:53] <toastyde1th> cut the taper next
[23:12:58] <toastyde1th> then lay it flat and do everything else
[23:13:30] <andypugh> How to hold it down for the internal profiling?
[23:13:36] <toastyde1th> in a vise?
[23:13:42] <andypugh> They taper
[23:13:44] <Loetmichel> glue ;-)
[23:13:53] <toastyde1th> cylinder
[23:14:15] <andypugh> Glue might be the way.
[23:14:30] <toastyde1th> i'd either cut soft jaws or use a pin
[23:14:40] <andypugh> I used to use sticky wax all the time when making TEM samples.
[23:15:17] <andypugh> I need to make one pair. I might make 6 pairs, in case any other owners of 1921 Ner-A-Cars want some...
[23:15:34] <toastyde1th> instead of a pin you can also use a chunk of wood and just file a radius into it
[23:15:35] <andypugh> So soft-jaws might be a bit much.
[23:15:39] <Loetmichel> andypugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o53RsosYwGg
[23:15:41] <toastyde1th> pretty standard technique to hold tapered parts
[23:16:30] <Loetmichel> CA is a wonderful thing
[23:16:34] <andypugh> Loetmichel: I see that your CAM puts in loads of annoying Z-moves too :-)
[23:16:50] <JT-Shop> yea, the log splitter works!
[23:17:05] <Loetmichel> after milling: give it a tap with a lead mallet-> done ;-)
[23:17:07] <andypugh> Just in time for summer!
[23:17:12] <Loetmichel> andypugh: cam?
[23:17:16] <Loetmichel> thats BoCNC
[23:17:37] <Loetmichel> a little freeware that can convert 2d plots and dxf to gcode
[23:17:50] <Loetmichel> depth by pen number
[23:17:51] <andypugh> OK, so why all the Z-action?
[23:18:19] <Loetmichel> bedause it does slices if tolt that it can mill only so deep in one turn
[23:18:21] <toastyde1th> Also, another useful thing to have is a machine jaw with a spherical back to it that sits in a spherical pocket, so it can hold all sorts of irregular parts
[23:18:37] <Loetmichel> why it pulls out between two turns: no idea, ask the programmer ;_9
[23:19:08] <JT-Shop> well spring is a good time to harvest dead standing trees and split them
[23:19:18] <JT-Shop> gotta beat the ticks and chiggers
[23:19:36] <andypugh> This stuff is probably useful, use heat to fix and heat to release:
http://www.lakeside-products.com/html/cement.html
[23:20:48] <andypugh> Though I ended up using
http://www.universalphotonics.com/Portals/0/TechDatas%5CwaxquartzstickyTD.pdf which has the nice feature of coming off cleanly with turpentine (I couldn't afford to het my samples by the time they were 100um thick)
[23:27:22] <JT-Shop> what do you use them for?
[23:28:01] <andypugh> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00275452
[23:28:37] <andypugh> By lucky coincidence, the very first paper of 1993
[23:29:41] <andypugh> So, setting 100um dia fibres in epoxy then mechanically polishing to 10um. Then ion-beam milling to 0.5um.
[23:32:54] <andypugh> But.. The waxes are generally aimed at mounting geological specimens etc.
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[23:40:01] <andypugh> Methinks this chap needs to get the hang of tool geometry so that he isn't filing after machining every time:
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f25/all-about-wax-chucks-15752/
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[23:57:48] <cmorley> Swapper_: Yaay! Thanks for the report on pncconf.
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