#linuxcnc | Logs for 2014-01-03

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[00:00:38] <heathmanc> would I use the same firmware for the 4i69?
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[00:00:55] <heathmanc> i only see one 4i69 firmware in the package
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[00:05:16] <heathmanc> or will that firmware work with 2x 7i29
[00:06:07] <PCW> No you need specific 4I69 firmware (he 4i69 has mainly been used by people using their own firmware)
[00:06:26] <heathmanc> sounds like i'm in for an adventure
[00:07:25] <PCW> not really its just theres not a whole lot of pre-built firmware available for the 4I69
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[00:07:44] <heathmanc> to me, the 4i69 and a single board computer sound like the ultimate setup
[00:07:49] <heathmanc> rugged, compact
[00:07:56] <heathmanc> surprised there aren't a lot out there doing it
[00:08:28] <PCW> I think the 4I65 is more common for this (older/better supported by linuxcnc)
[00:08:46] <heathmanc> lol, maybe i should have ordered that
[00:08:55] <heathmanc> assuming it's too late now
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[00:16:06] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/4i69_16_sv12.bit is a bitfile suitable for a 4i69-16 and 7I29s
[00:16:23] <PCW> its not a big deal to make bitfiles
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[00:17:43] <heathmanc> awsome, I ordered the -25 though, would it be possible to get one for the 7i48 on the 4i69-25 also, can't order the 7i29 as it's not in stock
[00:21:45] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/4i69_16_sv12.bit
[00:22:04] <PCW> sorry freeby.mesanet.com/4i69_25_sv12.bit
[00:22:52] <JT-Shop> http://www.lolbrary.com/content/686/epic-mousetrap-61686.gif
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[00:23:28] <heathmanc> hopefully those were the same files, since I accidentally overwrote the first one with this one
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[00:26:01] <PCW> the -16 and -25 files are not compatible if thats what you mean
[00:26:53] <heathmanc> sorry, wasn't paying attention to the second link
[00:28:27] <heathmanc> so that one is good for the 7i29s
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[00:32:38] <PCW> freeby.mesanet.com/4i69_25_svst6_6.bit
[00:32:40] <PCW> (for 7I48)
[00:33:44] <heathmanc> awesome, I greatly appreciate it
[00:34:29] <PCW> NP
[00:34:44] <Mr_Mayhem> MESA Rules!
[00:34:47] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe
[00:35:00] <Mr_Mayhem> But really, I do like mine.
[00:35:19] <heathmanc> any idea when the 7i29 might be in stock and the 7i42ta
[00:35:37] <PCW> I'll ask
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[00:40:18] <uw> (spins around in chair)
[00:40:39] <uw> when can we expect 7i29 stock
[00:40:45] <heathmanc> lol
[00:40:50] <heathmanc> I'm not the only one I see
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[00:46:19] <PCW> 7I29s next week
[00:47:11] <heathmanc> i will keep pinging the website for them then
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[00:57:22] <NickParker|2> PCW: could using the wrong work.@card@,all be causeing my issues?
[00:57:27] NickParker|2 is now known as NickParker
[00:57:35] <NickParker> i'm on work.i25_x9card.all for a 6i25
[00:58:19] <NickParker> and i notice work.sixi25_x9card.all is an option
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[01:01:59] <NickParker> and my "issues" are that my compiled bit files keep the pc from booting unless i use a pencil to short the eeprom chip
[01:03:38] <Tom_itx> when i built mine i commented that out and used the specific card
[01:03:49] <Tom_itx> btw did you notice my how to on making bit files?
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[01:04:15] <NickParker> Tom_itx: no i did not. last time i was in here you were starting it. link please?
[01:04:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
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[01:20:17] <NickParker> Tom_itx: so is the work.@CARD@.all field talking about what daughter card I'm using, or what anythingIO FPGA card I'm using?
[01:21:30] <PCW> the card selected is not likely to cause a problem
[01:21:32] <PCW> If you bit files are bad download the current source, build a _standard_ bitfile
[01:21:34] <PCW> using the fivei25.xise project file and modify (carefullY) from there
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[01:22:44] <NickParker> I've just restarted from source. So if I'm wiring everything up through a breadboard, what should I put in @CARD@?
[01:23:34] <PCW> the card is for the FPGA card (independent of daughtercards)
[01:24:46] <Tom_itx> the @PIN@ is more for the daughter cards isn't it?
[01:25:11] <NickParker> Tom_itx: yes, that's what i thought.
[01:25:20] <PCW> Yes that determines the I/O pinout (and modules included)
[01:25:21] <Tom_itx> the @CARD@ sets up the parameters for the main card
[01:25:30] <NickParker> alright well I'm going to go with work.sixi25_x9card.all for the @card@ slot for now
[01:28:16] <PCW> either 5i25 or 6i25 card types will do
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[01:32:10] <NickParker> what's a good PIN file to start from for 6i25? My old one seems to have some issues so i'm starting that part fresh as well.
[01:33:10] <PCW> what issues?
[01:33:36] <NickParker> I've added it to the library but i still get the error "Cannot find <pin_new1> in library <work>. Please ensure that the library was compiled, and that a library and a use clause are present in the VHDL file."
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[01:34:28] <NickParker> so i'm guessing I've done something to its use clause
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[01:35:30] <NickParker> wait
[01:35:35] <NickParker> end package name hadn't been changed
[01:36:41] <NickParker> .....and I dropped an S in the name for the use work.PIN[S]_NEW1.all; line
[01:36:48] <Tom_itx> PCW do you try to synthesize the files for size when you can over speed?
[01:37:04] <Tom_itx> referring to the 'speed' bug we uncovered...
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[01:42:53] <PCW> I normally compile for speed (area is risky)
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[01:44:33] <somenewguy> can ngcgui always safely accept equations as input?
[01:45:27] <PCW> NickParker: make sure you use the fivei25 project file,
[01:45:28] <PCW> if not the bitfile generation options will make unusable bitfiles
[01:46:22] <Tom_itx> are there FPGA size options on it also like there is on the 7i43?
[01:46:44] <NickParker> PCW: I had been using hm2epp.xise. Switched now
[01:47:04] <Tom_itx> that's for parallel port
[01:47:08] <PCW> umm thats guaranteed to fail
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[01:48:13] <NickParker> Tom_itx: The page you posted just said to use it. Could you add that that's for parallel port?
[01:48:31] <Tom_itx> i used my setup as the example
[01:48:44] <Tom_itx> i thought i mentioned that
[01:49:19] <NickParker> oh yeah you did. you said "in this example i will be using the hostmot2 EPPHM2 firmware"
[01:49:41] <NickParker> sorry, didn't put two and two together over here that I might need a different project file.
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[01:52:09] <PCW> you need
[01:52:11] <PCW> the right project file
[01:52:12] <PCW> the right FPGA chip selected
[01:52:14] <PCW> the right ucf file assosciated with the top vhdl file
[01:52:15] <PCW> otherwise you will get
[01:52:17] <PCW> bit hash/mish mash
[01:52:33] <Tom_itx> i'll add something to that effect
[01:52:34] <Tom_itx> to the page
[01:53:04] <Tom_itx> if i knew more about the specifics i would add to it
[01:53:17] <NickParker> alright I just compiled one without any errors. I've got some warnings though: http://pastebin.com/5XeaTjdA
[01:53:24] <NickParker> a lot of warnings I should say...
[01:53:33] <Tom_itx> yep
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[01:53:44] <Tom_itx> you can ignore most of them i think
[01:53:53] <NickParker> what about this 9k BRAM error?
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[01:54:05] <NickParker> I've *always* had it, everything I tried to compile with the ISE
[01:54:08] <Tom_itx> that's above my pay grade
[01:54:27] <PCW> meaningless
[01:54:43] <NickParker> cool. Well time to grab a pencil, boot my pc and see if this one works
[01:54:55] <PCW> the ones I like are the case statement is complete warnings
[01:56:12] <Tom_itx> PCW, ^^ what about the ucf file?
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[01:56:17] <Tom_itx> i didn't do anything there
[01:56:21] <Tom_itx> that i'm aware of
[01:57:03] <PCW> you just need to make sure the right one is assosciated (the card specific project files do that for you)
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[01:58:53] <Tom_itx> the project file is the .xise file right?
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[02:00:06] <PCW> Yes sir
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[02:00:14] <Tom_itx> PCW, do all the project files start with TopEPPHostMot2 as the top file where you select the board and daughter options?
[02:00:56] <Tom_itx> i suppose they wouldn't be EPP though
[02:01:05] <PCW> Top something
[02:01:16] <Tom_itx> so would it be fair to say TopXXXHostMot2 file?
[02:01:44] <PCW> epp,epps,spi,usb,ether,serial.pci etc
[02:03:38] <PCW> dir top*.vhd
[02:06:54] <Tom_itx> PCW, read the paragraph before the first .jpg and see if it makes sense: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/xilinx/xilinx14_install_index.php
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[02:09:42] <PCW> yes though the Top XXXX names are longer
[02:09:57] <Tom_itx> they should get the idea
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[02:13:06] <PCW> Top9054HostMot2.vhd 5I21,5I22,5I23,3X20, 4i68, 4I69
[02:13:07] <PCW> TopEPPHostMot2.vhd 7I43, 7I61 EPP
[02:13:09] <PCW> TopEPPSHostMot2.vhd 7I90 EPP
[02:13:11] <PCW> TopPCIHostMot2.vhd 5I24, 5I25, 6i25, 4I74
[02:13:13] <PCW> TopUSBHostMot2.vhd 7I32, 7I61 USB
[02:13:14] <PCW> TopEthernet16HostMot2.vhd 7I80, 7I76E, 7I77E
[02:13:16] <PCW> Top9030HostMot2.vhd 5I20, 4i65
[02:13:18] <PCW> TopGCSPIHostMot2.vhd 7I90 SPI
[02:13:20] <PCW> TopSerial16HostMot2.vhd 7I90 serial
[02:13:36] <Tom_L> i could list those i guess
[02:13:51] <PCW> TopUSBHostMot2.vhd 7I43, 7I61 USB
[02:14:16] <PCW> TopGCSPIHostMot2.vhd 7I90,7I91 SPI
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[02:18:38] <Tom_L> any more?
[02:18:46] <Tom_L> i added those to the page
[02:20:57] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/131080611452 anyone used the newer TB6600HG Stepper Motor Drivers?
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[02:25:54] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis-2 $500 and no specs on tolerance or accuracy
[02:27:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-router-rotational-axis-the-4th-axis
[02:27:48] <CaptHindsight> 3A NEMA23 1.8 Degree Stepper Motor Centric Rotational tolerance: ~0.1mm Pulley Belt: 17 teeth to 128 teeth
[02:28:11] <CaptHindsight> good for engraving wood?
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[02:32:55] <toastydeath> this doesn't help you but I'm curious what "centric rotational tolerance" refers to
[02:33:03] <toastydeath> is it synchronous bearing error or shaft runout
[02:37:05] <CaptHindsight> the guy that runs automationtechnologiesinc has a PhD in ME
[02:37:20] <CaptHindsight> but your guess is as good as mine :)
[02:37:34] <eric_unterhausen> some bastardized mixing of the two, no doubt
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[02:38:20] <eric_unterhausen> TIR would be a nice thing to have though
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[02:38:48] <eric_unterhausen> that's probably what it is, he's not doing spindle metrology
[02:44:18] <toastydeath> sadness.
[02:45:05] <eric_unterhausen> send it to me, I will run unterhausen-soft on it and give you just about everything
[02:45:10] <eric_unterhausen> no reversals though
[02:45:54] <eric_unterhausen> 'cause somehow I doubt that bearing will show up a 25nm test ball
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[02:47:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/cnc-mogul-machine more new stuff from Keling
[02:48:25] <CaptHindsight> cutting Area: 36" x 36" $1000 cutting Area: 48" x 96" $1255
[02:48:46] <CaptHindsight> looks like makerslide
[02:50:54] <eric_unterhausen> I think if I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd start thinking about linear rails from alibaba
[02:51:46] <eric_unterhausen> the makerslide wheels on my shapeoko are square, thump, thump, thump
[02:52:32] <eric_unterhausen> the people that have gone with metal wheels have significant wear on the extrusions
[02:52:57] <CaptHindsight> after trying to work on providing instructions for some open source machines I discovered that most people want a set of instructions down to exact part numbers and cut here, bend here, slot 1 with tab B instructions vs theory and really good suggestions
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[02:55:25] <eric_unterhausen> well, you have to admit that a BOM saves a lot of time
[02:56:12] <eric_unterhausen> maybe it's for the wrong reasons, but I have a lot better completion rate on projects that are well-defined
[02:58:35] <CaptHindsight> thats why I can see that Mogul thing being popular
[03:01:41] <CaptHindsight> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/kl-1218-stone-machine
[03:02:08] <CaptHindsight> "We Changed this Machine to Mach3 Controlled System" I wonder what it used to come with?
[03:02:53] <eric_unterhausen> probably some proprietary closed-source non-working Chinese program
[03:03:34] <eric_unterhausen> I was looking at spindles on ebay last night and found a batch of solid looking routers for less than $1000
[03:03:38] <jdh> it doesn't even come with mach3
[03:03:52] <jdh> what solid looking routers?
[03:05:53] <toastydeath> I still want someone to scrape in an aluminum extrusion and use an air bearing
[03:06:02] <toastydeath> I think that's probably the cheapest and most accurate way to build anything hobby
[03:06:07] <eric_unterhausen> drew would do it
[03:06:09] <toastydeath> no speed restrictions
[03:06:17] <toastydeath> accuracy limited by patience
[03:06:31] <toastydeath> and as cheap as you can source the aluminum
[03:07:05] <CaptHindsight> http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/mat/4247171655.html 5052 Aluminum Sheets .25" x 5'x 10' - $250
[03:07:17] <CaptHindsight> thats about 1/2 price
[03:07:32] <CaptHindsight> unless you buy in really high quan
[03:08:27] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROFESSIONAL-3040Z-CNC-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-ENGRAVING-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-p6-/370569081937?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5647a37451
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[03:09:58] <eric_unterhausen> not advocating for it, just looked pretty solid for the price
[03:10:18] <CaptHindsight> you could mount a PLA extruder on that
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[03:11:59] <jdh> 121165762354
[03:12:09] <eric_unterhausen> exactly
[03:13:03] <jdh> I'd like one of those without electronics/motors
[03:13:38] <CaptHindsight> same price and the spindless router from automationtech
[03:13:49] <CaptHindsight> and/as
[03:14:07] <eric_unterhausen> the 1.5kw spindles seem to be ok
[03:16:12] <CaptHindsight> I rarely see them without controls and motors
[03:16:27] <CaptHindsight> unless they are leftovers
[03:17:23] <CaptHindsight> 370770474504
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[03:18:40] <CaptHindsight> I'd grab that if I had time to drive there
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[03:20:36] <eric_unterhausen> I'd like to see that in action
[03:21:33] <CaptHindsight> the controller looks like it's from a 70's scifi
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[03:23:57] <PCW> I dig those lights
[03:25:01] <NickParker> Hi all, back from dinner. PCW: I can't seem to recover my 6i25 yet. sudo ./mesaflash --device 6i25 --recover --write fallback.bit works, i can see sectors erase and get written and it says configuration updated successfully
[03:25:24] <PCW> did you cycle the PC power?
[03:25:28] <NickParker> but after that sudo ./mesaflash --scanpci doesn't see anything and --device 5i25 and --device 6i25 both say device not found
[03:25:35] <NickParker> yes, but it still needs the pencil to boot.
[03:25:50] <PCW> well then the bitfile is not right
[03:26:10] <NickParker> I can't imagine how i would have mucked up fallback.bit, but I'll grab a fresh one and try it
[03:27:45] <PCW> download the source/ select fivei25.xise project/build a standard bitfile (the supplied pins files) and try that
[03:28:14] <NickParker> ok will do after i reboot with my freshly downloaded fallback.bit
[03:28:54] <PCW> or better still just program with one of the supplied bit files
[03:29:48] <NickParker> booted with the supplied fallback.bit
[03:32:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hurco-KMB-I-CNC-Mill-Used-AM12099-/121238145729?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3a5b4ac1
[03:32:28] <CaptHindsight> $1,950.00
[03:32:30] <NickParker> my pc was probably just trying to boot from usb before...
[03:34:10] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/121231910617 Mitutojo CMM X slide aprox 7' travel, 5500 pounds
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[03:36:53] <eric_unterhausen> that must have been a really crappy cmm
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[03:40:06] <toastydeath> wtf cmm has linear rails
[03:40:23] <toastydeath> that just looks like a random lathe z axis
[03:40:47] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think the discount cmm company has the guts to go with rolling element rails
[03:41:08] <toastydeath> "Valu CMM"
[03:41:13] <toastydeath> "Your one stop shop"
[03:41:23] <Tom_itx> i thought they ran on air bearings
[03:41:27] <eric_unterhausen> know your dimensions with .001" accuracy
[03:41:33] <toastydeath> they do, that's why we're incredulous
[03:41:47] <toastydeath> cuz that shit LOOKS like it's got some linear bearings slapped on a casting
[03:41:48] <Tom_itx> the one we had would just float
[03:42:12] <toastydeath> Air bearings are extraordinarily tolerant of surface variations
[03:42:30] <toastydeath> linear bearings, not so much
[03:43:46] <toastydeath> which means you can scrape an air bearing in and it has no problems whatsoever
[03:44:17] <toastydeath> vs being forced to grind and lap something
[03:44:40] <eric_unterhausen> I went to Ziess last fall
[03:45:08] <toastydeath> how was it?
[03:45:23] <eric_unterhausen> it was interesting, wish I could have learned more
[03:46:26] <eric_unterhausen> they didn't hide anything from us
[03:46:43] <toastydeath> damn
[03:47:03] <eric_unterhausen> main thing I learned was that you shouldn't buy a better machine than you need
[03:47:22] <Tom_itx> why not?
[03:47:30] <eric_unterhausen> because they don't spec their machines at their limits
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[03:53:31] <archivist> in the electronics world, one makes a measuring device an order of magnitude better that the uncertainty you wish to measure too
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[03:54:36] <toastydeath> depends on what you're doing, often the machine is beyond the limit of one's ability to measure in the world of companies like Moore, Zeiss, precitech, etc
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[03:55:16] <Mr_Mayhem> great slogan. "Beyond the Limits" hehe
[03:55:19] <eric_unterhausen> gotta get better than zygo
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[03:55:33] <toastydeath> I once made a calibration thing for zygo
[03:55:39] <toastydeath> I was fucking shocked it worked
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[03:55:53] <toastydeath> the most halfassed bullshit ever
[03:56:04] <toastydeath> but i guess if it works, it's not stupid, or something like that.
[03:56:28] <eric_unterhausen> reminds me, I gotta upgrade the computer on my zygo
[03:56:56] <eric_unterhausen> too bad I don't have 80k, the new machines are really nice
[03:57:01] <eric_unterhausen> same specs though
[03:58:35] <toastydeath> oh, there was another thing we did at New Way that wound up being cool but nothing ever came of it
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[03:58:47] <toastydeath> (speaking of scraping aluminum for air bearings on hobby machines)
[03:58:50] <eric_unterhausen> for a precision machine maker, any synchronous that is obvious with a measurement from a zygo is a problem
[03:58:57] <toastydeath> we took two air bearings and a big stainless pipe
[03:59:07] <toastydeath> just a relatively straight 3" pipe
[03:59:34] <toastydeath> stuck two air bushings on either end, and it turns out that if you pretend the pipe is a spindle
[03:59:43] <WalterN> woo
[03:59:53] <toastydeath> you wind up with a virtual straightedge you can use to guide a machine with
[03:59:54] <WalterN> tomorrow I get to go on a business field trip
[04:00:15] <WalterN> going to go look at a bunch of equipment
[04:00:30] <toastydeath> two gauges on either side and spin the pipe, and just use the A-B method of spindle measurement
[04:00:51] <toastydeath> straightedge accurate to your bearing's error
[04:01:07] <toastydeath> .00001" or better on just some old junk pipe
[04:01:15] <toastydeath> over 8 feet
[04:01:30] <eric_unterhausen> didn't that company get started selling moglice or something like it?
[04:01:37] <eric_unterhausen> Drew is a smart guy
[04:01:38] <toastydeath> New Way didn't
[04:01:53] <eric_unterhausen> I thought that's where "New Way" came from
[04:01:54] <toastydeath> drew started with in place machine reconditioning
[04:02:11] <toastydeath> bought the distributorship... rights? to moglice in north america
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[04:02:49] <eric_unterhausen> Drew is a smart guy
[04:02:58] <toastydeath> then he started making air bearings, and he and Nick (the other owner of New Way, who i did NOT get along with) got together and manufactured air bearings
[04:03:03] <eric_unterhausen> and he thinks up some stuff that's really off the wall
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[04:03:06] <toastydeath> the machine shop itself came from Nick, who inherited his dad's shop
[04:03:19] <eric_unterhausen> ok, I thought it was Drew's dad
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[04:03:21] <toastydeath> what irritated me about new way is they didn't give drew any expertise
[04:03:35] <toastydeath> he comes up with some bizarre shit but you can see the application from forty miles away
[04:03:51] <toastydeath> he just has NO idea what he's doing a lot of the time, and the people around him DO, but don't help
[04:04:23] <WalterN> toastydeath: looking at employing a guy?
[04:04:26] <toastydeath> he's also willing to give it ago
[04:04:30] <toastydeath> * a go
[04:04:35] <toastydeath> and keep at it until it starts to work
[04:04:41] <toastydeath> WalterN, ?
[04:04:46] <eric_unterhausen> his youtube channel is a hoot
[04:05:07] <eric_unterhausen> but I don't know if the stuff I've seen is public
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[04:05:33] <WalterN> toastydeath: donno... you are talking about a guy who does not know what his is doing and his application
[04:05:46] <toastydeath> wut
[04:06:09] <WalterN> thats what I'm trying to figure out
[04:06:24] <eric_unterhausen> toasty and I both know the guy
[04:06:27] <toastydeath> the guy i'm talking about is not a machinist but has a lot of good ideas
[04:06:43] <eric_unterhausen> probably too many good ideas :)
[04:06:43] <toastydeath> ideas that have (in my opinion) obvious and immediate utility as products
[04:07:03] <WalterN> ideas are cheap, implementing them isnt
[04:07:06] <toastydeath> what he doesn't have is machining or engineering expertise
[04:07:31] <eric_unterhausen> I think he's getting better about that
[04:07:40] <toastydeath> and so he bangs his head against the wall on projects that would be done SO quickly otherwise
[04:07:50] <toastydeath> just because he can't get support from inside the company
[04:08:03] <WalterN> so why dosent he fix it?
[04:08:27] <toastydeath> if "fixing it" in a medium sized business were that simple, you'd be able to sell a book and make a few million as a consultant
[04:09:10] <WalterN> http://www.amazon.com/Machine-Shop-Trade-Secrets-Manufacturing/dp/0831134771/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388722121&sr=8-1
[04:09:16] <WalterN> is what I mean by fixing it
[04:09:30] <toastydeath> because it's not that simple
[04:09:33] <WalterN> if he does not know how to do things, that book will help a lot
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[04:10:12] <toastydeath> he has all the time and books on machining in the world
[04:10:36] <toastydeath> and that's not the same as having a toolmaker with 40 years of experience helping you
[04:10:53] <toastydeath> of which new way employs several
[04:11:27] <WalterN> so whats the problem? if you have an idea, and knowledge of how to make stuff...
[04:11:35] <toastydeath> that works for a single shop
[04:11:42] <toastydeath> single-man shop
[04:11:58] <eric_unterhausen> I didn't know he made 3 vids in our lab
[04:12:05] <WalterN> I'm so confused
[04:12:51] <WalterN> also, I need to shave sometime tonight
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[04:13:51] <eric_unterhausen> my software wasn't photogenic enough to make it into the video
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[04:18:27] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[04:19:00] <eric_unterhausen> http://youtu.be/uT2yjUo0hXc I didn't get a credit
[04:19:25] <eric_unterhausen> that's ok, ted had to write the report
[04:19:49] <eric_unterhausen> I love that vacuum air bearing, he was showing it floating upside-down at a conference
[04:20:00] <toastydeath> he wants those to happen so bad
[04:20:24] <toastydeath> it's not going to, but he wants it to
[04:20:43] <eric_unterhausen> I also like the free-form air bearings
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[04:24:47] <toastydeath> free form air bearings?
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[04:25:11] <eric_unterhausen> weirdly shaped bearings
[04:25:16] <toastydeath> ...for what
[04:25:16] <eric_unterhausen> like for paper guiding
[04:25:20] <toastydeath> Ohhhhh
[04:25:27] <toastydeath> I thought about that the other day
[04:25:42] <toastydeath> What if you did a water bearing for like, a grinder
[04:25:46] <toastydeath> or an air bearing for a bandsaw
[04:25:51] <toastydeath> you could put the crown on the bearing
[04:25:57] <toastydeath> as usual, drew has obviously beaten me to it
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[05:30:08] <Mr_Mayhem> I saw someone at a japanese research place move paper using linear electrostatic motor. They move small particles too.
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[05:33:48] <Mr_Mayhem> http://www.aml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/research/espf/espf_e.html
[05:34:05] <Mr_Mayhem> quicktime video in upper right corner of that page.
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[05:34:36] <Mr_Mayhem> Main page. http://www.aml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/research/es_motor/es_motor_e.html
[05:35:05] <CaptHindsight> magic voodoo
[05:35:15] <Mr_Mayhem> hehe
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[08:16:24] <Deejay> moin
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[08:33:28] <uw> moin Deejay
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[08:45:51] <Deejay> hi uw
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[09:05:51] <RyanS> Ever heard of a German tool brand 'CoCaCo'?
[09:08:37] <skroon> good morning all
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[09:23:54] <uw> bye Deejay
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[11:17:52] <jthornton> wow 15 stone this morning
[11:28:28] <archivist> of pure fat/muscle/bone ?
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[11:34:09] <jthornton> very little fat left, it seems to wear away the more you work
[11:38:02] <archivist> when you get to the bones rattling stage it may be wise to stop :)
[11:38:48] <jthornton> lol, I plan on stopping before that
[11:39:33] <jthornton> shooting for 14 stone ish
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[13:01:21] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: i am more like 17 stone... and rising
[13:01:29] <Loetmichel> and theres a bit ore of fat ;-)
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[13:02:31] <Loetmichel> +m
[13:04:11] <Loetmichel> grrr
[13:04:20] <Loetmichel> jthornton
[13:04:56] <Deejay> i think jthornton und JT-Shop are one and the same person ;)
[13:06:30] <jthornton> I think so too
[13:06:36] <Deejay> ;)
[13:06:42] <Deejay> split personality ;)
[13:06:46] <jthornton> lol
[13:06:56] <Deejay> we are three people here: me, myself and I
[13:07:03] <Deejay> ;)
[13:07:20] <jthornton> cogito ergo sum
[13:08:45] <Deejay> :)
[13:09:04] <jthornton> Loetmichel, I was 17.5 stone at one time
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[13:14:02] <eric_unterhausen> do you have a scale that measures in "stone"?
[13:15:03] <jthornton> no, I have a calculator
[13:15:18] <jthornton> do scales in UK read in stone?
[13:15:28] <archivist> yes
[13:16:17] <archivist> although new imported scales may be in kellogs
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[13:38:10] <R2E4_> http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show%3F21301285353227&prev=/search%3Fq%3D27BA050%26espv%3D210%26es_sm%3D122
[13:38:36] <R2E4_> I have 4 of these, at 6000.00, I will let them go for 10,000.00 for all 4....lol
[13:41:27] <R2E4_> I just want the damn manuals.
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[13:49:17] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Found the manuals!
[13:50:00] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Will let them go for $15,000 =)
[13:50:35] <R2E4_> I would need to sell the drives to buy the manuals.
[13:50:45] <R2E4_> Then what would I need the manuals for?
[13:51:04] <Jymmm> Nostalga?
[13:52:48] <R2E4_> it sucks, Sanyodenki wont return my emails, cannot find these manuals anywhere and I cannot do anything else on my project without these manuals.
[13:53:16] <Jymmm> Can you post a pic of the label?
[13:54:53] <R2E4_> I dont have the pics of it with me, I do have the actual manual in japaneese right here in front of me.
[13:55:12] <Jymmm> Do you have an android phone?
[13:55:26] <R2E4_> iphone
[13:56:06] <Jymmm> Well, see if you can install google translate, it will let you take a photo and translate
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[13:58:30] <R2E4_> its installing
[14:00:28] <eric_unterhausen> I have the sanyo denki manuals on a hard drive
[14:00:44] <eric_unterhausen> unfortunately, I'm not sure which one
[14:00:53] <eric_unterhausen> they used to call me occasionally
[14:01:36] eric_unterhausen is now known as sanyo_denki_sale
[14:02:00] <sanyo_denki_sale> you d/l some manuals from our site, can I sell you something expensive?
[14:02:08] sanyo_denki_sale is now known as eric_unterhausen
[14:02:19] <eric_unterhausen> I just wanted to know if I should buy some drives off of ebay
[14:03:07] <eric_unterhausen> same thing happened with bijur
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[14:06:14] <R2E4_> Someone must have this manual....
[14:08:43] <Jymmm> R2E4_: installed yet?
[14:09:22] <eric_unterhausen> it used to be possible to d/l, you just had to register on the site
[14:09:55] <Jymmm> http://www.sanyo-denki.com/servo_manuals.aspx
[14:10:25] <eric_unterhausen> looks like current products
[14:10:32] <eric_unterhausen> you need opsolete products
[14:10:53] <Jymmm> *I* don't =)
[14:11:08] <eric_unterhausen> if you want the $15000
[14:11:31] <Jymmm> lol
[14:12:03] <Jymmm> Nah, I need 302/304 FH SS sheet 0.010"
[14:12:21] <eric_unterhausen> what's the fh part?
[14:12:25] <Jymmm> #4 Finish
[14:12:28] <R2E4_> They dont list the BL Super line
[14:12:32] <Jymmm> Full Hard
[14:12:37] <eric_unterhausen> okey
[14:12:59] <eric_unterhausen> how do you cut full hard 304?
[14:13:16] <Jymmm> scissors?
[14:13:24] <Jymmm> It's only 10mil
[14:13:40] <eric_unterhausen> somehow my mind translated that to .1
[14:13:47] <Jymmm> ah
[14:13:57] <eric_unterhausen> too much working in millimeters
[14:14:28] <eric_unterhausen> and yes, it still doesn't make sense in millimeters
[14:16:29] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/files/sanyo-denki.jpg theres the drives
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[14:27:25] <JT-Shop> CN1 and CN2 go to the servo?
[14:29:03] <R2E4_> CN2 go to the servos
[14:30:04] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/sanyodenkibl827.pdf
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[14:30:45] <R2E4_> RGSO is the drive enable. IT shows a contact, so you think all i need to do is provide a contact to enable the drive?
[14:31:18] <R2E4_> I need to find out what VTG, 15G IA and IVTG1 are....
[14:31:27] <archivist> you could do some tracing of wires with a meter
[14:32:03] <R2E4_> IT goes to the controller, I know where they go.
[14:32:12] <R2E4_> I just dont know what they do
[14:32:37] <archivist> do you have the controller docs
[14:33:26] <R2E4_> yes, it doesnt get down to that level though. I have all the wiring for the controller and machine also.
[14:33:41] <R2E4_> I am really close but before I rip anything apart I need to find out
[14:33:41] <archivist> things like the enables may be connected together
[14:34:18] <archivist> wire names can be a good clue on the wiring diagram
[14:35:48] <archivist> you can also run it and scope the signals
[14:36:07] <R2E4_> The wires that go from the drives to the controller are multi-pair wire.CN1, goes to a connector on the controller
[14:36:17] <R2E4_> yeah......
[14:37:21] <R2E4_> I am also worried about phase, there are in the controller screen etc that talks about AB phase and sections limited to that, which I do not know what that does.
[14:38:40] <archivist> encoder AB?
[14:42:26] <R2E4_> yeah I think thats what it is
[14:43:12] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/schematics1.pdf
[14:44:09] <Jymmm> R2E4_: Did yu get google translate installed?
[14:44:27] <R2E4_> yeah, it wouldnt take a pic as an input
[14:44:49] <R2E4_> That last doc, makes it look simple.....
[14:45:05] <Jymmm> Ah, time to get rid of that iphone =)
[14:45:22] <R2E4_> haha, yeah
[14:45:46] <Jymmm> It surprisingly works well for taking/using a photo to translate
[14:45:53] <R2E4_> OH1, OH2 overheat output of servo amp......
[14:46:05] <R2E4_> With an android?
[14:46:11] <Jymmm> yeah
[14:46:29] <R2E4_> I have a few I copuld borrow
[14:47:12] <R2E4_> So I wont have to touch CN2, just CN1 and CN5 on the controller
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[14:47:58] <R2E4_> Tach goes into servo amp. What exactly does the amp use that data for?
[14:48:08] <archivist> differential signals on the encoder
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[14:50:07] <R2E4_> So the control knows where it told the axis to go, the motor moved and the confirmation of the move gets sent to the controller via encoder.
[14:50:33] <R2E4_> If there is an error, what would linuxcnc do with the diff signal?
[14:51:43] <archivist> which diff
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[14:52:17] <R2E4_> the diff between what the controller told it to move and what it actually moved, (from encoder)
[14:53:23] <archivist> the loop in linuxcnc sees the error and moves the axis accordingly
[14:53:53] <R2E4_> Thats what I thought, but I have heard others speak differently about it.
[14:54:20] <R2E4_> IT knows where it is suppose to be, if its not, it sends it there.
[14:54:37] <archivist> it is a continuous process
[14:57:00] <JT-Shop> $58 for a tiny replacement stove grating!
[14:57:22] <archivist> cast in USA or cast in china
[14:57:56] <R2E4_> or cast in backyard
[14:58:06] <archivist> stoves are expensive here too, so I am cold
[14:58:26] <mozmck> Even a used one?
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[14:59:53] <archivist> yes used are silly prices and often broken
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[15:04:42] <R2E4_> What does a cutting monitor do? beside monitor cutting.....lol
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[15:30:34] <JT-Shop> made in USA
[15:32:00] <jdh> <- me too
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[15:44:56] <PetefromTn> me three...LOL
[15:45:12] <jdh> hey pete, how's the weather over there?
[15:45:39] <R2E4_> http://irmtl.com/LinuxCNC/VM40/schematics1.pdf pins 4 and 3 on CN1 of servo amp I would think is the PWM from a 7i77.just below that there is a velocity control.
[15:47:07] <R2E4_> to control the speed of the axis?
[15:47:41] <R2E4_> I thought that would be in the pwm signal
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[15:52:39] <JT-Shop> term 4 & 3 say Velocity Command Voltage term 25 & 21 say Velocity Control On
[15:53:14] <R2E4_> yeah
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[16:21:23] <PetefromTn> jdh: sorry man was distracted. IT"S FREAKIN' COLD!!!
[16:21:44] <PetefromTn> was about 16 this morning.. But it is supposed to warm up during the day.
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[16:23:16] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/03/mitsubishi-enters-american-3d-printing-market-metal-3d-printer-platform-matsuura-machinery/
[16:23:42] <CaptHindsight> $845,946 a single machine platform that combines metal laser sintering with high-speed milling allowing for the production of very precise parts to tight tolerances up to 25 x 25 x 18 cm .
[16:25:11] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn: 16F we won't be above 0 most of next week
[16:25:27] <PetefromTn> my sympathies friend LOL
[16:26:02] <PetefromTn> Like I said I want to sell my house and move to where a COLD day is 50 degrees.....FLORIDA!!
[16:27:56] <skunkworks> -25 by monday
[16:28:10] <skunkworks> suposidly..
[16:28:28] <PetefromTn> Holy smokes where do you live antartica?
[16:28:32] <CaptHindsight> yeah high of -16F or so
[16:28:33] <syyl_ws> 25F?
[16:28:41] <syyl_ws> -25F?
[16:28:49] <skunkworks> -25f
[16:28:56] <CaptHindsight> yeah, upper midwest
[16:29:02] <skunkworks> yep
[16:29:05] <CaptHindsight> IL, Wi, Mi
[16:29:05] <syyl_ws> ok, -25C are cold
[16:29:14] <syyl_ws> but -25F are freaking cold :D
[16:29:27] <CaptHindsight> -16C right now
[16:29:40] <PetefromTn> yeah um screw that noise... I think I will stay in the south LOL
[16:30:02] <CaptHindsight> -32C monday
[16:30:38] <CaptHindsight> and we just had 12" of snow (31cm)
[16:30:55] <PetefromTn> We were SUPPOSED to have snow but only got some flurries.
[16:32:16] <PetefromTn> At least if it snowed we could go out and enjoy the cold a bit but now it is just crappy. At least it is sunny today oh well. Heating up the shop right now to get some work done. Slept in some LOL
[16:32:17] <CaptHindsight> it's actually warmer in Canada
[16:35:58] <CaptHindsight> we still had 90+ days into September and now this
[16:44:23] <PetefromTn> talk later guys. have a nice day.
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[16:58:30] <Gigs-> 60mph winds here last night
[16:58:58] <Gigs-> woke me up because it sounded like the siding was going to come off, went to the bathroom and the water in the bowl was going boing boing
[16:59:18] <Gigs-> so powerful it was drawing vacuum on the plumbing vents
[16:59:23] <CaptHindsight> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/03/afinia-puts-dukes-defend-stratasys-lawsuit/ patent lawsuits over FDM
[16:59:37] <CaptHindsight> Gigs-: we get there here as well
[16:59:57] <CaptHindsight> there/that
[17:00:12] <Gigs-> yeah crazy little winter storm
[17:00:55] <CaptHindsight> like being on a ship
[17:01:28] <Gigs-> re the link the USPTO is going downhill again
[17:01:54] <Gigs-> for a little while it looked like they were going to shape up, then someone sent me a link the other day to a recently granted patent for a bouyancy perpetual motion machine
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[17:04:03] <Gigs-> not even a very clever one, just bouyant balls falling down, being inserted into the bottom of a column of water, and floating back up
[17:06:01] crib- is now known as crib
[17:06:27] <skunkworks> wait - that would work!
[17:06:37] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:07:00] <CaptHindsight> you just have to keep feeding it balls by hand
[17:07:12] <mozmck> Might be hard to find prior art on that one though...
[17:07:40] <Gigs-> I'm sure there's even similar patents issued from back when it wasn't the uspto's policy not to grant perpetual motion patents
[17:08:05] <Gigs-> it's a pretty "classic" design ... probably first thought of in the 1500s or even earlier
[17:08:26] <Gigs-> at the latest, the renaissance
[17:08:30] <CaptHindsight> perpetual patent machine
[17:08:34] <mozmck> askpatents.com
[17:08:49] <mozmck> saw this the other day and it looks interesting.
[17:09:19] <Gigs-> yeah, it's been around a while, it's a good idea but apparently it's not completely working
[17:09:47] <mozmck> I don't know, I read about it here: http://joelonsoftware.com/
[17:10:09] <Gigs-> related there's also some open libraries of prior art
[17:10:28] <Gigs-> funded by the big guys that have thousands of patents ironically
[17:10:57] <Gigs-> there's some things IBM or ITT might not want to patent, but they want to get prior art documented to prevent anyone else from patenting
[17:11:09] <mozmck> makes sense
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[17:12:03] <CaptHindsight> A giant silicon valley "fruit" co just filed for a patent for something we are building for them and have been building for years
[17:12:24] <CaptHindsight> lots of prior art
[17:12:26] <Gigs-> the major problem in my mind is that the USPTO seems to "default to issue"... but really I think very few patents should actually be issued
[17:13:09] <CaptHindsight> the definition of "obvious" has been made very specific for the USPTO
[17:13:13] <mozmck> From the site I just linked: "The number of actually novel, non-obvious inventions in the software industry that maybe, in some universe, deserve a government-granted monopoly is, perhaps, two."
[17:13:35] <Gigs-> even just watching Shark Tank on TV... you see startups holding ridiculous patents sometimes
[17:14:10] <Gigs-> Mark Cuban tore into someone who had a patent on channels in clothing to run earphone wires through, that was nice to see at least
[17:14:26] <CaptHindsight> heh
[17:14:32] <Gigs-> since that idea has been around for ages and at least two of the investors had been making similar products for years
[17:15:47] <CaptHindsight> plus there are tons of overlapping patents
[17:15:55] <Gigs-> in the EU it's much harder to patent software (or at least it was), they used to require that the software patent only be in the context of a business method
[17:16:13] <CaptHindsight> the attitude is to grant and let the courts decide
[17:16:14] <Gigs-> you couldn't patent say a wavelet codec, you could only patent using a wavelet codec to send x-rays etc
[17:17:46] <Gigs-> I think that's a good example, the first guy who figured out how to do wavelet perceptual lossy codecs should have probably gotten a patent... but every tiny variation on it shouldn't get its own patent
[17:18:59] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6994809.html this was filed just to show how silly this has become
[17:19:13] <Gigs-> is that the swing
[17:19:17] <Gigs-> oh
[17:19:23] <CaptHindsight> patching a hole
[17:19:37] <Gigs-> yeah some guy patented swinging a playground swing sideways
[17:19:45] <CaptHindsight> lol
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[17:20:09] <Gigs-> there's also "method for excersizing a cat" which as far as anyone can tell, was a serious patent
[17:20:20] <Gigs-> it basically says point a laser around the room
[17:20:51] <jdh> my wife got some cat games for her iPad... the cat loves them.
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[17:21:13] <CaptHindsight> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0270152.html Patent Acquisition and Assertion by a (Non-Inventor) First Party Against a Second Party
[17:21:24] <CaptHindsight> filed by haliburton :)
[17:21:34] <Gigs-> yeah they patented patent trolling
[17:22:31] <Gigs-> I "invented" a sort of pin gauge... people have wrote me to ask if it's patented
[17:22:54] <Gigs-> mixed feelings there since I really don't think it should be patentable, but part of me knows the USPTO would probably approve it anyway
[17:23:30] <CaptHindsight> when I tell these stories to people in China they ask "Doesn't this just breed laziness?"
[17:23:49] <Gigs-> "Method and apparatus for determining the diameter and depth of small holes"
[17:23:53] <CaptHindsight> it's good to be the king
[17:24:08] <Gigs-> well it's an alien concept in China, where ripping people off is not considered wrong
[17:24:42] <Gigs-> a good quality knock-off is something to be proud of in China
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[17:26:09] <mozmck> A knock off is not theft (ripping off).
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[17:26:29] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:26:30] <Gigs-> meh, just consider it an expression
[17:26:53] <IchGuckLive> its a storm over head here in germany
[17:27:14] <mozmck> It might be "legally speaking", infringement of a government granted monopoly though.
[17:27:14] <Gigs-> I bet you have a word for that too
[17:27:27] <Gigs-> deuschstormoverheaden
[17:27:29] <mozmck> :)
[17:27:45] <IchGuckLive> someone in the USA affected by the winterstorms
[17:27:58] <Gigs-> just got a lot of wind here in the southeast
[17:28:21] <mozmck> Not here in texas, just too cold (22F last night)
[17:28:22] <CaptHindsight> IchGuckLive: 30cm of snow and -30C
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[17:28:38] <IchGuckLive> i got +15
[17:28:52] <Gigs-> mozmck: yeah I get that argument but in general in the US we do have a cultural aversion to "taking people's work", in that things like plagarism are even a concept
[17:29:00] <IchGuckLive> no snow for this winter as to count
[17:29:14] <Gigs-> much different cultural attitudes toward that sort of thing in china
[17:29:33] <mozmck> Gigs-: yes, you can even be sued for plagarizing your own writings! pretty neat...
[17:29:53] <CaptHindsight> lots of factories in China operate making the actual product during the day and then after hours so "extra" parts get made that always fall off the trucks
[17:30:16] <Gigs-> on Wikipedia we give people copyright warnings for posting their own work that they published elsewhere first, that sucks... they never understand and just think we are crazy
[17:30:31] <IchGuckLive> CaptHindsight: THATS the fun part that makes the profit
[17:31:01] <CaptHindsight> it's fun finding sneakers with 3 different logos on them, all made in the legit factory but assembled elsewhere
[17:31:05] <mozmck> that is crazy if someone else does not hold the copyright.
[17:31:23] <IchGuckLive> im looking for spareparts of a China Geenrator
[17:31:31] <Gigs-> mozmck: we have no way of knowing whether the wikipedia user is the same person unless they provide evidence
[17:31:47] <IchGuckLive> there are so many exact the same but noeone has parts
[17:32:02] <Gigs-> mozmck: as well a lot of the time it's stuff they did as part of their job and people don't realize that work generated as an employee almost always winds up copyright to the company not to them personally
[17:32:17] <mozmck> interesting. Oh, well, I despise copyright and patents in general.
[17:32:38] <mozmck> Yes, and most publishers "own" the authors works too.
[17:32:46] <Gigs-> yeah so it gets sticky fast
[17:33:15] <Gigs-> patents would be OK by me if they were much more selective about issuing them
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[17:33:22] <Gigs-> at least they don't last too long
[17:33:38] <mozmck> Probably so. Copyrights would be better if they only lasted the original 14 years.
[17:33:41] <Gigs-> copyright is basically forever
[17:33:54] <Gigs-> yeah 14-20 years or whatnot would be fine for copyright
[17:34:43] <jdh> I need an oxygen analyzer that will measure 0-5ppm O2 in helium. Any suggestions?
[17:34:57] <Gigs-> whew, that's low
[17:35:08] <jdh> well, 0-50ppm, but accurate down to at least 5
[17:36:08] <Gigs-> what's your budget? I have the feeling you are in the pricey industrial range
[17:36:26] <jdh> less than $10k would be good
[17:36:46] <Gigs-> check Omega sensors
[17:36:50] <CaptHindsight> jdh: under what conditions?
[17:37:26] <jdh> Capt: pre-weld, room temp, clean gas
[17:37:53] <Gigs-> it might be easier to just add oxygen absorbers
[17:38:03] <CaptHindsight> jdh: working with aluminum?
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[17:38:21] <jdh> Capt: something like that. Reactive metals anyway
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[17:38:49] <Gigs-> http://www.aoi-corp.com/products/trace_oxygen_analyzers/series_3000/
[17:39:01] <Gigs-> something like this guy
[17:39:30] <Gigs-> but a gas line trap with pyrophoric iron oxide would probably burn off trace oxygen for eons at those concentrations
[17:39:57] <CaptHindsight> molecular sieve
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[17:40:26] <Gigs-> heh I go low tech you go super high tech
[17:40:53] <jdh> the helium itself is pure enough. It is welding in an enclosed box. Also needs a cooldown area
[17:42:23] <Gigs-> you could do a little circuit off the box through the oxygen reactor/adsorber to keep the atmosphere in there clean
[17:42:42] <CaptHindsight> sintering reactive metals has the same conditions and problems
[17:44:01] <jdh> inserting/removing parts always allows a little atmosphere in, even with positive pressure.
[17:44:32] <Gigs-> I don't know how much the box I linked to is, but I suspect it's probably right around 10k
[17:44:47] <CaptHindsight> can you have more that one airlock?
[17:44:55] <CaptHindsight> 2+ stages
[17:44:56] <Gigs-> he's talking PPM
[17:44:57] <jdh> not really.
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[17:49:51] <Gigs-> as expensive as helium is an oxygen scavenger system is probably going to be cheaper in the long run if you currently just flush until your levels drop
[17:50:14] <Gigs-> as long as you don't mind the small levels of nitrogen
[17:50:32] <jdh> nitrogen embrittlement
[17:50:45] <Gigs-> even at a few ppm?
[17:50:53] <jdh> dunno about that low
[17:51:37] <jdh> oxygen scavenging would be good from a process perspective, but I still have to measure.
[17:51:48] <Gigs-> yeah if it's critical you'll need both
[17:52:22] <Gigs-> http://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/products/Model-6410-Oxygen-Absorbing-Purifiers.pdf
[17:52:44] <Gigs-> all this is is a metal tube filled with pyrophoric iron just like those "hot hands" things or the packets in jerky
[17:52:55] <Gigs-> and I'm sure they sell it for oodles of money.. I'm in the wrong business
[17:53:10] <Cylly> re @ home
[17:53:12] <Gigs-> but if it's critical, there's an off the shelf product you can use
[17:53:14] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
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[18:20:30] <Gigs-> , Kushner is planning on renovating a townhouse located in Greenwich Village for a single family�s use, incorporating a 75 foot high climbing wall, and hopes to be the first home principally built utilizing 3D printing techniques
[18:20:34] <Gigs-> mmm
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[18:20:55] <Gigs-> I don't think I'd climb that wall
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[18:26:14] <IchGuckLive> i printed here the hole day on a HP designjet 3D and i trust those parts
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[18:29:13] <Gigs-> it's still ABS
[18:29:56] <andypugh> I trusted ABS as a motorcycle helmet for years.
[18:30:23] <Gigs-> a motorcycle helmet is supposed to break
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[18:30:54] <andypugh> No, it isn't.
[18:31:38] <andypugh> The foam liner is meant to compress. The shell is meant to remain intact to hold the foam liner in place.
[18:31:56] <R2E4_> If the helmet won't break under the force then your head will.
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[18:32:20] <andypugh> That's just bollocks.
[18:32:28] <Gigs-> well yeah it's not supposed to shatter or crumble
[18:32:40] <Gigs-> but they don't make them out of steel for a reason :P
[18:33:04] <andypugh> Mainly weight. And rust.
[18:33:26] <R2E4_> Whats the popint of the helmet if it doesnt take the impact?
[18:33:34] <Gigs-> now I want a brushed titanium helmet even though I never ride a bike
[18:33:40] <R2E4_> ITs the same priciple as the safer barrier in Nascar no?
[18:33:47] <andypugh> When I retired the plastic hat (bought a fibreglass one) I tried to smash it with a sleghammer. I failed.
[18:34:24] <andypugh> A helmet is made of two parts. A tough, resilient shell and a sfot, deformable foam liner.
[18:35:06] <andypugh> The foam liner absorbs the impact. The shell holds the whle thing together, spreads the load and protects against penetrating injuries.
[18:35:33] <andypugh> This is a subject I know a fait bit about. I used to work in crash testing.
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> ...as the dummy ;)
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[18:35:54] <Gigs-> ok ok maybe I was off base, but your helmet wasn't 3d printed
[18:36:12] <andypugh> Jymmm: SHhh!
[18:36:12] <Jymmm> andypugh: (sorry, couldn't resist ')
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[18:37:18] <archivist> I tested mine on a corner once :)
[18:37:22] <R2E4_> impact-absorbing liner
[18:37:40] <Jymmm> archivist: and the bike?
[18:38:06] <archivist> jumped back on and continued the journey
[18:38:13] <Jymmm> I tested my helmet on the asphalt once
[18:38:39] <archivist> I just rolled around on a grassy verge
[18:39:02] <Jymmm> It survived, my leather boots got a hole via friction burn them though
[18:39:10] <Jymmm> in^
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> Both the shell and the liner compress if hit hard, spreading the forces
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> of impact throughout the helmet material. The more impact-energy
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> deflected or absorbed, the less there is of it to reach your head and
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> brain and do damage. Some helmet shells delaminate on impact.
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> Others may crack and break if forced to take a severe hit; this is one
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> way a helmet acts to absorb shock. It is doing its intended job. Impact
[18:40:34] <R2E4_> damage from a crash to the non-resilient liner may be invisible to the
[18:40:35] <R2E4_> eye; it may look normal, but it may have little protective value left and
[18:40:35] <R2E4_> should be replaced.
[18:41:01] <R2E4_> I guess both voices could be right.
[18:41:28] <R2E4_> Thats from http://msf-usa.org/downloads/helmet_CSI.pdf
[18:42:05] <andypugh> The shell will often be damaged during a crash. But it isn't _necessary_ that it be damaged in order for the helmet to do the job. And that was the statement I was objecting to.
[18:42:37] <R2E4_> yeah your right
[18:42:56] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hrhr, tell me about it
[18:43:06] <Loetmichel> i have destroyed about 10 helmets to date
[18:43:20] <Loetmichel> and still my head ist where it belongs ;-)
[18:43:26] <Jymmm> http://www.viralnova.com/embarrassed-son/
[18:44:58] <R2E4_> haha
[18:45:04] <IchGuckLive> is in the USA To use Helmets the law
[18:45:21] <IchGuckLive> or does police do nothing if you pass them without
[18:45:21] <Loetmichel> my newes helmet: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14355
[18:45:34] <Loetmichel> ... i dont like the closed ones ;-)
[18:46:14] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: Happy new Year
[18:46:25] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: wir haben ieen 3d drucker bekommen
[18:46:27] <Loetmichel> to you, too
[18:46:42] <andypugh> I prefer full-face after a hailstone-related crash in an open-face when I was 16.
[18:46:43] <Loetmichel> so use it to make another one ;-)
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[18:47:08] <andypugh> (The pain caused by the hailstones caused the crash)
[18:47:12] <Deejay> re
[18:47:19] <Loetmichel> archivist: dou are not supposed to brake with your chin ;-)
[18:47:34] <Loetmichel> you
[18:47:42] <Loetmichel> ok, that i can relate to
[18:47:56] <Loetmichel> but my motorcycle is just 50ccm
[18:47:57] <archivist> I forgot a bend :)
[18:48:02] <andypugh> du bist night mit der chin gefehnen!
[18:48:18] <Loetmichel> so at about 35mph the hailstones are not THAT hard ;-)
[18:48:23] <andypugh> (See, I told you I didn't speak German :-)
[18:49:13] <Loetmichel> what souod that pseudo-german tell me?
[18:49:22] <andypugh> (Hmm, I think I tried to make a german word out of French, there, actually)
[18:49:23] <Loetmichel> say it in english, please?
[18:50:40] <andypugh> Loetmichel: You already said it in English.
[18:51:08] <Loetmichel> andypugh: my little "moped": http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14283
[18:51:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14280
[18:51:31] <Loetmichel> ah, that would be: "Du sollst nicht mit dem Kinn bremsen!"
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[18:51:40] <Loetmichel> in german
[18:52:17] <andypugh> Yeah, I remembered "Bremmstrahlung" just after typing my version.
[18:53:01] <andypugh> My Bike: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UlvzurQu3pBpLs3XMDh_NNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:53:12] <Loetmichel> my worst free flight was with a friend on a tuned BMW k100
[18:53:22] <Loetmichel> at night on the autobahn
[18:53:40] <Loetmichel> a lorry had lost a 4 by 4
[18:53:51] <Loetmichel> and we did hit it at 110mph
[18:53:53] <andypugh> Hmm, I can see that a tuned K100 might just about be fast enough to get out of its own way. :-)
[18:54:07] <Loetmichel> -> 50m flight, 80m sliding on the tarmac
[18:54:25] <andypugh> Ah, yeah, it's best to stay on the bike, I have found.
[18:54:47] * Jymmm lol @ andypugh
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[18:55:30] <Loetmichel> andypugh: although the k100 had 345kg it wasnt that fast: the rpm limiter kicked in at 11500 rpm being 290kmh... ;-)
[18:55:34] <R2E4_> http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0708_rekindling_the_thrill_of_motorcycling/photo_01.html
[18:55:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: at least when it's vertical that is.
[18:56:25] <Loetmichel> andypugh: i used do commute to work on a scooter.
[18:56:31] <Loetmichel> 45km
[18:56:34] <Loetmichel> one way
[18:56:37] <Loetmichel> summer and winter
[18:56:57] <Loetmichel> i have lost count how often i had hit the ground in winter ;)
[18:57:00] <CaptHindsight> uphill both ways? :)
[18:57:27] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: at -10°c on a 50ccm scooteer it feels that way after nearly an hour of drive ;-)
[18:57:47] <Loetmichel> with this little bugger: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3794
[18:58:39] <CaptHindsight> I used to have a 50cc 2-cycle motorized skateboard. I could hit 55mph running nitromethane
[18:58:55] <Loetmichel> the aluminum box on tha back served a dual pourpose: for once it could carry to boxes of coca cola, second it spared me from painting the plastic sides over and over after the "accidents"
[18:59:41] <archivist> one accident should train the rider to be careful
[19:00:02] <Loetmichel> because piaggio had (for unkown reason) decided to use WHITE plastic parts and paint them black
[19:00:10] <andypugh> I crashed my FJ1100 4 times on one miserable journey (fresh snow on top of, and hiding, icy ruts)
[19:00:14] <Loetmichel> archivist: in fall: not happening
[19:00:41] <Loetmichel> wet leaves, first snow, careless driver ;-)
[19:01:27] <Loetmichel> the "new" old gilera i have now is more my age than a plastic scooter i think
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[19:01:55] <andypugh> Policy decision, I am writing off the living-room carpet and I will replace it with some hard flooring more suited to my lifestyle once I have finished assembling the lathe and cabinet.
[19:02:04] <CaptHindsight> you know it's slippery when your Spyder ends up on its side
[19:02:07] <Loetmichel> and its MUCH faster ( about 75 kmph on the plain) than its allowd to be ;-)
[19:02:24] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
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[19:02:32] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: you mean the porsche?
[19:02:39] <Loetmichel> how did you do THAT?
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[19:02:59] <CaptHindsight> http://can-am.brp.com/spyder/
[19:03:04] <CaptHindsight> not me
[19:03:20] <Loetmichel> ah, that thing
[19:03:45] <CaptHindsight> the kids around here amaze me at how often then end up upside down next to the road
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[19:05:01] <andypugh> Help! I am turning into a freak! I just washed my dead-blow hammer.
[19:05:11] <CaptHindsight> 4 kids in a new Mustang passed me doing >90mph, 4 miles later I saw the bottom of their car with the wheels still spinning
[19:05:43] <archivist> andypugh, its the woodwork that causes that disease
[19:05:48] <CaptHindsight> on flat dry highway
[19:06:30] <mozmck> heh, woodwork and metal work in the same shop - quite a pain both ways.
[19:07:02] <CaptHindsight> what do you guys do, put up tents around the machines?
[19:07:10] <archivist> woodwork and pallets http://www.laguitarsales.com/pages/3157/Taylor_Custom_Shop_Pallet.htm
[19:08:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNZCZsHJIR8 <. and i thought I am a crazy driver ;-)
[19:08:14] <mozmck> I have put a cover my wife made of denim over my metal lathe, but it doesn't always stay there.
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[19:08:50] <mozmck> I wipe the dust off the metal machines and try not to get grease and oil on the wood and woodworking machines.
[19:09:24] <CaptHindsight> I got an extra mill just for boring into granite surface plates
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[19:10:42] <R2E4_> That looks like fun, allthough I would choose to wear shoes.
[19:10:54] <Loetmichel> me too ;-)
[19:11:10] <Loetmichel> and some protectivegear
[19:11:13] <mozmck> If I was working in the shop much I would separate the metal and wood - mainly to keep the wood dust out of the metal working stuff.
[19:11:17] <Loetmichel> like a leather suit
[19:16:25] <CaptHindsight> big wheels, rope and a bicycle when I was a kid
[19:18:15] <andypugh> Yes, I am doing the woodwork in my living room, rather than get the metalworking stuff dusty :-)
[19:18:24] <CaptHindsight> did they have big wheels in the 70's in europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Wheel_%28tricycle%29
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[19:21:20] <archivist> living room is for electronics
[19:23:41] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: no
[19:23:47] <Loetmichel> not that i know of
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[19:33:36] <Tom_itx> archivist naw, more suited for bikes as they won't fit down the hallway
[19:34:32] <Tom_itx> andypugh you got that cabinet stained yet?
[19:36:24] <CaptHindsight> not if he uses coasters and placemats :)
[19:37:12] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Just reassembling it. I have had a few people suggest i ought to fume it before finishing.
[19:42:05] <CaptHindsight> speaking about perpetual motion machines earlier http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/01/04/wireless-energy-3d-printed-atmomotor-hv/
[19:42:40] <CaptHindsight> http://laserhacker.com/?p=356
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[19:51:30] <CaptHindsight> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/good-to-share/10546819/Acoustic-levitation-how-sound-can-get-physical.html
[19:51:41] <CaptHindsight> fun stuff today
[19:53:20] <heathmanc> anybody got a source for decent nema23 servos?
[19:53:48] <heathmanc> besides keling
[19:53:59] <heathmanc> haven't heard anybody ever really talk about them
[19:54:33] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: what was that source of yours? they had really high torque
[19:54:41] <R2E4_> I pulled the shafts .5" latterally out of my keiling steppers.... on my router
[19:54:57] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: I use lots by Parker
[19:55:12] <CaptHindsight> AC servos
[19:55:16] <heathmanc> just looking for something peak torque 300-400oz in, incremental
[19:55:26] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: keling only has DC servos
[19:56:15] <andypugh> Omron?
[19:56:52] <CaptHindsight> yes, but I think he might be looking for DC. Which are you looking for heathmanc?
[19:56:56] <andypugh> heathmanc: Do you want new, or would you take second-hand?
[19:57:13] <heathmanc> second hand is fine if they aren't some no-name
[19:57:19] <heathmanc> i would prefer DC
[19:57:35] <heathmanc> AC would work, would get some pwm amps from pico probably
[19:58:22] <Tom_itx> heathmanc i got mine from keelinginc
[19:58:40] <Tom_itx> steppers that is
[19:58:55] <heathmanc> I have bought steppers from him before, this is for a servo system
[19:59:12] <andypugh> I wonder how well these hybrid stepper systems work? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-Hybrid-Closed-loop-Step-Servo-Drive-Driver-2HSS86H-4-5N-M-Motor-Encoder-/281237656097?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item417b121221
[19:59:14] <Tom_itx> the steppers were fine
[19:59:33] <Tom_itx> his servos are skewed rotor
[19:59:35] <heathmanc> I don't know, I see them everywhere now
[19:59:41] <Tom_itx> at least some of them are
[19:59:51] <heathmanc> i just need something to interface dumb and let linux and mesa do their thing
[20:02:06] <heathmanc> would prefer them to be DC to use with mesa 7i29
[20:04:06] <CaptHindsight> http://us.misumi-ec.com/vona2/detail/110302496410/?Inch=0&CategorySpec=00000032221%3A%3Aa%0900000032222%3A%3Aa%0900000032283%3A%3Ab
[20:04:25] <CaptHindsight> PEAK TORQUE N-m 2.29
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[20:06:28] <heathmanc> would have to go with pico, these are brushless servos with a 150vdc requirement
[20:07:08] <CaptHindsight> if you don't mind used there are several from Parker on ebay from a seller in Minn http://stores.ebay.com/D-S-Machined-Products?_trksid=p2047675.l2563
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[20:10:19] <t12_> ~a
[20:10:37] <CaptHindsight> Parker 23 size AC servo with a simple Gemini drive are ~$300
[20:10:49] <andypugh> FA-Parts has lot of motos and drives, second hand
[20:11:33] <andypugh> Like this set which I keep on not-quite buying: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261144227546?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
[20:12:15] <andypugh> heathmanc: I am using the Mesa 8i20 with great success.
[20:12:21] <heathmanc> i have so much crapy lying around i need ot get rid of
[20:12:31] <heathmanc> not sure i want to fork over the money for 4 8i20
[20:12:45] <heathmanc> and they are overkill for a taig mill and a 7x14 lathe
[20:13:22] <andypugh> You get 5 for the price of 4 with the bulk discount :-)
[20:13:39] <heathmanc> i have a bunch of mitsubishi mr-j2 and allen bradley ultra3000 drives
[20:13:56] <heathmanc> lol, if i needed 4 that would be great!
[20:13:56] <jdh> i'll pay for the fifth one.
[20:13:56] <andypugh> So why not use them?
[20:14:27] <CaptHindsight> the AB Ultras are nice
[20:14:31] <heathmanc> the allen bradley stuff is nice, but the tuning is a pain.. i just want something dumb and only tune one loop
[20:14:41] <heathmanc> i have ultra3000s on the taig mill right now with 270watt motors
[20:14:55] <heathmanc> but they have smart encoders that are sin/cos
[20:15:22] <heathmanc> and two of the amps don't have a recent firmware so they commutation doesn't autodetect quite right the first time they are turned on
[20:15:29] <CaptHindsight> do you have a scope for tuning?
[20:15:49] <heathmanc> yes, i have a tektronix digital scope
[20:16:08] <heathmanc> truth be told, i am really an amater
[20:16:14] <heathmanc> amateur even
[20:16:29] <CaptHindsight> it's just takes some time to tune
[20:16:38] <heathmanc> that's not the biggest issue
[20:16:44] <CaptHindsight> some people just don't like to bother
[20:17:06] <heathmanc> when i enable the drive after it's been turned on the first time, the servos hunt for a while in one direction until they find whatever they are "looking for"
[20:17:10] <heathmanc> after that, it's fine
[20:17:27] <CaptHindsight> hunt fast or slow?
[20:17:29] <heathmanc> but I'm looking for something more compact than that setup, and something i can move easily to a lathe
[20:17:34] <heathmanc> slow
[20:17:44] <R2E4_> IS pulse coder another name for encoder?
[20:17:49] <heathmanc> it's a firmware issue with the drive, and AB doesn't just give up firmware
[20:18:01] <CaptHindsight> yeah
[20:18:19] <heathmanc> so instead of using them as intelligent encoders, i have to select sin/cos and a serial commutation
[20:18:34] <heathmanc> but it isn't quite right.. the drive that has the newer firmware works great
[20:20:34] <heathmanc> so, with the 8i20, was the setup pretty easy?
[20:20:34] adfa is now known as voxadam
[20:21:01] <andypugh> Not for me.
[20:21:17] <andypugh> I had to write a driver, and the bldc HAL component.
[20:21:19] <andypugh> :-)
[20:21:26] <CaptHindsight> what year is that older ultra3000 from?
[20:21:26] <heathmanc> i am moving to a single board computer, and a 4i69 anything io on a pci-104 bus
[20:21:26] <andypugh> It should be easier now.
[20:21:57] <CaptHindsight> heathmanc: what firmware rev?
[20:22:52] <heathmanc> a date code of 1502
[20:23:00] <heathmanc> and firmwares from 1.3 to 1.4ish
[20:23:05] <heathmanc> needs to be 1.52 minimum
[20:23:21] <heathmanc> i have 7 of these drives total
[20:23:26] <heathmanc> only one has 1.52
[20:23:37] <heathmanc> they would work great for a regular incremental encoder
[20:23:38] <CaptHindsight> 2098-DSD-010 or the -005?
[20:23:52] <heathmanc> i have four of the 005
[20:23:59] <heathmanc> and one 010, and two 020
[20:24:15] <CaptHindsight> I might have a home for them if you decide to get rid of them
[20:24:17] <heathmanc> the last 3 are sercos models, but run fine not on sercos
[20:24:47] <heathmanc> they are great drives, the ultraware software is nice
[20:24:52] <heathmanc> but again, I am a hobbyist
[20:25:13] <CaptHindsight> I mostly use them to control linear servos
[20:26:02] <heathmanc> i am just looking for something more compact
[20:26:18] <heathmanc> need to find something to do with the mitsubishi mr-j2s amps also
[20:26:30] <heathmanc> don't have any extra servos for those
[20:26:42] <heathmanc> and many galil cards
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[20:26:52] <heathmanc> I collect stuff it would seem
[20:27:21] <CaptHindsight> have link to the motors? or are the mr-j2s amps?
[20:27:29] <heathmanc> amps
[20:27:36] <heathmanc> uses hc-kfs type motors
[20:27:43] <heathmanc> 131072 encoder counts
[20:28:17] <CaptHindsight> what size amps? the 20's?
[20:28:54] <heathmanc> 3 40's and one 70
[20:29:36] <CaptHindsight> nice stuff
[20:29:43] <heathmanc> originally tried them with mach3 and a galil card and plugin
[20:29:54] <CaptHindsight> are you really pressed for space?
[20:29:54] <heathmanc> was not very happy with the galil and mach3 plugin
[20:30:03] <heathmanc> i am in the air force stationed overseas
[20:30:08] <CaptHindsight> well anything mach3
[20:30:14] <heathmanc> i just don't need most of this stuff
[20:30:20] <heathmanc> i have a buying problem
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[20:30:39] <CaptHindsight> a footlocker is only so big :)
[20:30:48] <heathmanc> lol
[20:32:33] <CaptHindsight> you still need a power supply for the 8i20's
[20:32:39] <heathmanc> right
[20:32:45] <heathmanc> i can come up with that no problem
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[20:32:54] <heathmanc> i have toroids galore
[20:33:19] <CaptHindsight> they will work
[20:34:55] <heathmanc> just got a ekstrom carlson 24k spindle 1.34hp for this little taig mill
[20:35:24] <heathmanc> lighter than the spindle that was on there
[20:35:39] <heathmanc> but have to sort out the control from linuxcnc
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[20:40:36] <andypugh> My 8i20 supply doesn't use a transformer, just retified mains.
[20:40:49] <andypugh> 300VDC
[20:41:41] <heathmanc> what are you interfacing the 8i20 with?
[20:42:35] <andypugh> These would be nice on the Taig, and would probably be OK with 50V and a 7i39HV. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251319064135?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
[20:43:12] <andypugh> I run the 8i20 through a 5i23 and 7i44.
[20:43:46] <heathmanc> those servos won't work, they have an intelligent encoder
[20:43:54] <andypugh> (plus a 7i39 and a 7i49 and a 7i64).
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[20:44:10] <andypugh> How intelligent?
[20:44:41] <heathmanc> hiperface
[20:44:53] <heathmanc> sin/cos encoders
[20:45:02] <andypugh> Ah.
[20:45:46] <andypugh> Mesa have firmware for BiSS and SSI, bit not Hiperface AFAIK.
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[20:45:59] <nlancaster> any tips for tramming a cnc router table? never done it before
[20:46:47] <andypugh> Dial indicator swinging on a log arm?
[20:46:54] <andypugh> (long arm)
[20:47:11] <andypugh> Thats the way to get the spindle perpendicular to the bed.
[20:47:26] <CaptHindsight> laser micrometer
[20:52:18] <heathmanc> so, the 8i20 has rj45 connectors back to the 7i44?
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[20:57:50] <heathmanc> andypugh: what motors are you using with the 8i20
[20:58:20] <andypugh> Some Lenze 750W motors that I found on eBay.
[20:58:29] <andypugh> (Which have resolvers, for extra fun)
[20:59:44] <heathmanc> lol, pretty happy with the setup?
[21:00:10] <andypugh> Yes
[21:00:43] <andypugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0celdfZmkA
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[21:02:10] <andypugh> The camera makes it seem louder than it really is.
[21:02:15] <heathmanc> any special configuration involved in linuxcnc?
[21:02:36] <andypugh> Yes.
[21:02:47] <heathmanc> lol, several days woth?
[21:02:49] <heathmanc> worth
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[21:03:16] <andypugh> Hard to say, as I was writing the drivers and HAL component at the same time, so it took me several months.
[21:03:32] <andypugh> It should be about a day knowing what I know now.
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[21:06:09] <nlancaster> love those big lit up buttons andypugh
[21:06:22] <heathmanc> so a 4i69, 7i47s, and 7i37com and 4x8i20 should work
[21:07:24] <heathmanc> well, no 7i47s, a 7i44 and them something to control analog out for spindle
[21:09:04] <andypugh> Cheapest setup would be 5i25 + 7i74 + another DB25 IO card for the GPIO.
[21:09:27] <heathmanc> i already have a 5i20, 7i37com, 7i48, 4i69
[21:10:29] <heathmanc> so i will be using the 4i69 on the single board computer
[21:10:42] <andypugh> Ah, in that case you would only need the 7i44, and it is fairly cheap: http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=7i44&product_id=96
[21:10:48] <heathmanc> right
[21:10:55] <heathmanc> but that doesn't give me analog spindle control
[21:11:02] <andypugh> 7i83?
[21:11:18] <andypugh> Slightly overkill.
[21:11:50] <heathmanc> was looking at a 7i42ta and SPINx1
[21:12:33] <andypugh> I am forgetting you have all the other 5i20 headers :-)
[21:12:47] <heathmanc> right, but won't be using the 5i20
[21:12:51] <heathmanc> using a pci-104 card
[21:13:11] <heathmanc> the 5i20 is what i am currently using
[21:13:16] <heathmanc> waiting on my single board computer
[21:13:24] <andypugh> SPINX1 looks ideal, and could be driven off of anything, including a parallel port.
[21:13:30] <nlancaster> do they still make pc104 SBCs?
[21:13:37] <heathmanc> this is a pci-104
[21:13:41] <heathmanc> no isa interface
[21:13:44] <nlancaster> pci-104 i meant sorry
[21:13:47] <andypugh> I have an interesting SBC to play with, when I get the time: www.udoo.org
[21:13:57] <heathmanc> oh yes, advantech, adlink, emac
[21:14:01] <heathmanc> bunch of them out there
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[21:14:23] <heathmanc> i have looked at udoos
[21:14:58] <heathmanc> i am a little confused about the ac servo inputs into the 8i20
[21:15:08] <andypugh> I am not sure how the PC and Arduino side yalk to each other.
[21:15:24] <heathmanc> don't see inputs for encoders/hall sensors
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[21:19:06] <andypugh> Yes, the 8i20 is totally dumb, and encoder inputs and halls etc get into HAL from elsewhere.
[21:19:38] <andypugh> (In my case the commutation is all done via the 7i49 Resolver data)
[21:21:02] <heathmanc> so something like a 7i52 is needed
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[21:22:45] <heathmanc> and just leave out the 7i44
[21:22:57] <andypugh> That would work, but the 7i37 is probably perfectly adequate
[21:22:59] <heathmanc> rj45 from the 8i20 to flying leads to the 7i52
[21:23:42] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I see your plan.
[21:23:43] <heathmanc> 7i37 is just an i/o card
[21:24:01] <andypugh> You might need tp check with PCW that it will work.
[21:24:30] <andypugh> Right, out to the workshop to see what is wrong with the belt sander.
[21:24:41] <heathmanc> lol, good luck
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[21:52:34] <andypugh> Thought it was the belt, no such luck, it's the output bearing spinning in the housing.
[21:53:34] <heathmanc> that's no good
[21:53:44] <heathmanc> outer race isn't tight to the bore?
[21:53:49] <andypugh> 608 skate bearing :-)
[21:53:59] <heathmanc> easy enough to get hold of
[21:54:13] <andypugh> Just ordered
[21:54:43] <andypugh> (Heck, I ordered 8 of them)
[21:55:45] <heathmanc> cheap enough to have spares
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[21:56:34] <heathmanc> i think i got my situation sorted.. 7i47s, and 7i52, 4169, 4x 8i20
[21:57:44] <heathmanc> and then the 7i37COM for all the gpio
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[22:09:54] <Deejay> gn8
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[22:29:07] <andypugh> heathmanc: What is your motor power?
[22:29:38] <heathmanc> whatever i want it to be, seeing as i don't have any but the AB motors I am currently using
[22:29:43] <heathmanc> they are 270watt
[22:29:48] <heathmanc> overkill for the taig
[22:30:01] <heathmanc> but the plan is a bigger mill in a couple years
[22:30:18] <andypugh> 270W is rather small for the 8i20, it lacks resolution at low currents (or so I think PCW has said)
[22:30:53] <andypugh> What voltage are they?
[22:31:02] <andypugh> (How fast do they run at 50V?)
[22:31:14] <heathmanc> they are 230V
[22:31:25] <andypugh> Hmm.
[22:31:37] <heathmanc> these won't be the ones i am using, they have intelligent absolute encoders
[22:31:46] <andypugh> 7i39 will probably spin them a bit slowly then.
[22:32:26] <andypugh> We have been working on BiSS and SSI, the drivers are there in Master
[22:32:58] <heathmanc> these use stegmann i believe
[22:33:01] <heathmanc> don't know how that compares
[22:33:31] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Xo21L0ybE
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[22:34:10] <heathmanc> i have some 200v 400w sanyo denki P5 ac servos that i would like to use also
[22:34:17] <heathmanc> but again, some funky encoder
[22:34:23] <heathmanc> they are for my cnc router project
[22:37:37] <andypugh> We need to work on these funky encoders.
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[22:37:56] <heathmanc> they are ABSII-R
[22:37:59] <heathmanc> or something odd
[22:38:05] <andypugh> I have one serve (also Sanyo Denki P5, actually) that I intend taking the encoder off of and fitting a Resolver i have spare...
[22:38:11] <heathmanc> they are on a mechanism I really want to use
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[22:38:30] <andypugh> I rather like resolvers.
[22:38:39] <heathmanc> I like whatever works
[22:39:05] <heathmanc> what kind of resolvers are you fitting on it?
[22:41:36] <andypugh> I don't know, it was something like £2 on eBay because the guy had no idea what it was,
[22:42:29] <heathmanc> Are you in england?
[22:42:36] <andypugh> Aye
[22:42:53] <heathmanc> that's where I'm stationed. at RAF Lakenheath
[22:43:14] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[22:45:54] <andypugh> http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/en/288-servo-and-stepper-systems
[22:48:51] <andypugh> and http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/sections/1/motors/
[22:49:52] <andypugh> and http://www.worldofcnc.com
[22:52:36] <heathmanc> a wide range of items
[23:01:01] <andypugh> heathmanc: You are only 30 miles from a LinuxCNC user who is building a working scale model Ferrari F1 engine: http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=conrods
[23:03:21] <heathmanc> that's pretty awesome.. some people have to much time on their hands
[23:03:33] <heathmanc> i wish i could get into something like that
[23:03:51] <syyl-> aww
[23:03:57] <syyl-> that guy has a deckel fp2nc
[23:04:17] <syyl-> envy :o
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[23:05:23] <andypugh> He doesn't mess about, that's for sure. He just built a new workshop: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Qll6-unQntbnBFe2fjfNbSE34QWor4gUzfw_1O9qsPw?feat=directlink
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[23:06:41] <heathmanc> a lot of cast iron there
[23:07:53] <andypugh> Aye. Definiteluy not enough cast iron here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aD3U7TVt-SvekGIitO20B9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:07:59] <syyl-> and a lot of fine machined parts
[23:08:17] <andypugh> That's my first (and current) CNC which suffers from a marked lack of adequacy.
[23:09:06] -!- voxadam [voxadam!voxadam@unaffiliated/voxadam] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:09:17] <syyl-> looks a bit used and battered ;)
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[23:09:44] <andypugh> No, just unloved :-)
[23:09:58] <syyl-> dont tell her
[23:10:21] <andypugh> I hope to get rid of it in a year or so.
[23:10:50] <andypugh> Some fool will prbably pay good money for a combined CNC mill/lathe :-)
[23:11:35] <syyl-> of course, it seems like a good idea ;)
[23:11:40] <andypugh> (and it does actually do good work as long as the parts are small and the cuts are light)
[23:13:28] <andypugh> It isn't a good idea to take a 7" lathe and stretch it to 9". It is then a bad idea to make it a 9x40 rather than 7x20. It is an even worse idea to then bolt on a milling head, as V-flat lathe beds make lousy milling tables.
[23:14:05] <andypugh> It is then an even worse idea to convert such a machine to CNC :-)
[23:14:24] <syyl-> ;)
[23:14:37] <syyl-> i had a lough :D
[23:14:44] <heathmanc> lol, but that's how you learn what you really want
[23:14:52] <heathmanc> several incarnations of cnc kludgery
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[23:17:49] <andypugh> Yes, indeed. Which is why I went on to convert a proper machine made in Yorkshire by folk who knew what they were doing, using proper-sized motors and custom iron castings rather than milled aluminium.
[23:18:41] <andypugh> I am pretty proud of the Harrison conversion, I think it is a bit like Harrison themselves might have done it.
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[23:19:14] <andypugh> I am still dithering about whether to CNC convert the Rivett 608 lathe next :-)
[23:20:05] <andypugh> (another case of buying a machine built without compromise a long time ago, rather than something built yesterday, badly, to be as cheap as possible)
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[23:29:47] <nlancaster> use it to build one from scratch.
[23:30:09] <CaptHindsight> http://www.xmos.com/en/products/silicon http://www.xmos.com/startkit#D1WEaWZP anyone ever play with their hardware?
[23:30:19] <andypugh> I have considered it. I am interested in the idea of starting from a slab of granite.
[23:32:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: I know a roof you can get soem from
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[23:32:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Hey, you have bandwidth this mont again WOOHOO
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[23:34:54] <nlancaster> andypugh, the lathe is "the" basic machine tool. all others including other laths can be built with a lathe.
[23:35:25] <andypugh> nlancaster: And the sky is blue and water is wet :-)
[23:37:31] <nlancaster> uh?
[23:37:48] <nlancaster> i am serious. the lathe can replicate itself. and machine all hte parts to build a mill.
[23:38:16] <nlancaster> if asked which came first, the lathe or the mill? The Lathe!
[23:39:45] <CaptHindsight> http://www.camachinetools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/greece-ancient-athenian-agora-mill-stones.jpg the ancient greeks had mills
[23:40:27] <CaptHindsight> never heard of an ancient greek lathe :)
[23:40:46] <nlancaster> they had them
[23:41:04] <nlancaster> and a mill stone, is not a "Mill"
[23:41:13] <nlancaster> as in 3 axis machining system :P
[23:41:39] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101008
[23:42:38] <nlancaster> see. lathes! :D
[23:43:07] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101006
[23:43:34] <nlancaster> i read alot sci-fi and some of my favorite books deal with creating technology on a primitive planet or in the past.
[23:43:54] <nlancaster> neet
[23:44:55] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kotsanas.com/gb/exh.php?exhibit=1101012 λιμάνι εμπορευματικών μεταφορών
[23:44:57] <nlancaster> conrad stargard books, and also now the Safehold series from david weber
[23:45:29] <CaptHindsight> loosely translates as freight harbor :)
[23:45:34] <nlancaster> nice!
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[23:53:36] <i_tom> nlancaster: totally agree about the lathes
[23:55:15] <i_tom> CaptHindsight: ancient lathes look nearly close to as we know it today
[23:55:45] <i_tom> the workpiece was rotated by the energy of falling water or human force (slaves)
[23:56:09] <i_tom> for sure the lathe is invented before the mill
[23:56:13] <i_tom> :)
[23:56:15] <CaptHindsight> same for math, but don't tell that to the schoolbook publishers
[23:56:44] <i_tom> and democracy, philosophy, basic medicine
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[23:57:06] <i_tom> great nation
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[23:57:36] <CaptHindsight> then the Italians took over
[23:58:11] <i_tom> more like latinics and italics
[23:58:23] <i_tom> not sure about the exact word for them nations
[23:58:30] <i_tom> the founders of modern italy
[23:58:48] <i_tom> anyway, other great nation didn't know the wheel
[23:59:49] <i_tom> edit: didn't use the wheel for other than kids toys