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[00:15:58] <Tom_itx> very nice andypugh
[00:16:00] <Tom_itx> so
[00:16:06] <Tom_itx> how you gonna top that for the new year??
[00:16:19] <andypugh> Guess what it is :-)
[00:16:53] <Tom_itx> not a pile of lumber anymore
[00:18:47] <andypugh> http://www.deprecision.com/RivettLathe.com/images/cummins_608l.jpg
[00:19:24] <Tom_itx> copied from that?
[00:19:41] <andypugh> I spent more than twice what the lathe cost plus 10 days of work to make a stand for a lathe I don't need :-)
[00:19:56] <Tom_itx> but
[00:20:02] <Tom_itx> you're making a showpiece out of it
[00:20:27] <andypugh> Yeah, because the only place I have space for it is my front room :-)
[00:20:37] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:21:32] <Tom_itx> did you see how my engraving turned out?
[00:22:16] <andypugh> No, I have been basically offline all Christmas / Andymas.
[00:22:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant/pendant2.jpg
[00:22:32] <Tom_itx> i tried a couple different depths
[00:22:50] <Tom_itx> bottom was about .010" top around .035" or so
[00:23:05] <andypugh> The lower ones may be a little too subtle?
[00:23:08] <Tom_itx> not perfect but workable
[00:23:20] <Tom_itx> i may flycut it and try again
[00:23:45] <andypugh> You should be able to rust re-engrave. This is CNC :-)
[00:23:52] <andypugh> (just)
[00:23:58] <Tom_itx> yeah but we're talking about sherline here
[00:24:09] <andypugh> Ah.
[00:24:33] <andypugh> Buy something in the half-ton class. I really don't regret it.
[00:24:37] <Tom_itx> wasn't sure what to expect from the new bits
[00:25:18] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[00:25:24] <Tom_itx> much better than trying to use a drill bit
[00:26:59] <andypugh> That worked quite well considering.
[00:27:23] <andypugh> Engraving bits seem to have a geometry you would never guess.
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[00:32:31] <Tom_itx> we used to use fairly long half round bits for deep hole drilling brass on the old old New Brittans making barb fittings etc
[00:32:37] <Tom_itx> very similar to that
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[00:37:28] <andypugh> I have a tobacco tin full of such things, and no idea what they are for. :-)
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[01:13:41] <Tom_itx> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/01150127
[01:13:45] <Tom_itx> just like those
[01:15:46] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: At the bare minimum, do atmels need an external osc/crystal?
[01:16:31] <Tom_itx> no
[01:16:42] <Tom_itx> afik they all have internal oscillators
[01:16:52] <Jymmm> thanks
[01:16:55] <Tom_itx> if you want better accuracy you need one
[01:17:06] <Tom_itx> some have internal calibration bits
[01:17:30] <Tom_itx> and default to the lowest denominator
[01:17:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I want to program on an arduino, then pull out the chip and insert another one
[01:17:36] <Tom_itx> ie generally 1Mhz
[01:17:37] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Looks like a gun-drill?
[01:17:44] <Tom_itx> very much
[01:17:55] <Tom_itx> used mostly for long holes in brass
[01:18:18] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, as long as you don't screw up the fuse bits that works
[01:18:42] <Tom_itx> i made a fixture for attiny2313 but added a redundant crystal to the bottom just in case
[01:19:09] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's just to make a bunch of led blinky things
[01:19:36] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny9.jpg
[01:19:47] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/attiny2313/attiny8.jpg
[01:19:51] <Tom_itx> bottom of it
[01:20:13] <Tom_itx> thumb held programming at it's best
[01:20:46] <Jymmm> if I cna help it, I dont even want a PCB
[01:21:24] <Tom_itx> how you gonna attach the power and isp pins?
[01:21:31] <Tom_itx> dip chips?
[01:21:32] <andypugh> ROFL. (well, actually, I smirked silently)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_drill seems to have some too-literal imperial to metric conversions.
[01:21:59] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: just hard wire it
[01:22:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: direct to the DIP chip
[01:22:37] <Tom_itx> andypugh, those aren't quite half round
[01:22:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: maybe get a wirewrap socket
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[01:23:21] <eric_unterhausen> hoho, even after reinstalling ubuntu, the commands I hosed it with previously are still in my bash history
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[01:24:28] <andypugh> I wonder if you could make super-straight rifle-barrels with spark-erosion?
[01:24:50] <eric_unterhausen> how do you keep the sparker from drooping?
[01:25:03] <andypugh> Erode vertically
[01:25:11] <eric_unterhausen> duh
[01:26:03] <andypugh> (sorry)
[01:26:07] <eric_unterhausen> haha
[01:26:14] <eric_unterhausen> i am a little slow
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[01:27:18] <eric_unterhausen> looks like vesa and opengl are working after my reinstall
[01:28:32] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: did you ever get your imx6 + arduino board?
[01:29:02] <andypugh> Apparently it has been left next-door (just got home)
[01:32:51] <eric_unterhausen> I bought 3 compact flash to sata converters, the only one I wasn't using was bad
[01:32:55] <eric_unterhausen> too late to send it back
[01:33:28] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, don't forget you need a pullup on reset and all the power pins need connecting
[01:33:46] <eric_unterhausen> input connector visibly crooked
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[01:37:05] <eric_unterhausen> CaptHindsight, how do you tell if memleak is on?
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[01:39:25] <CaptHindsight> he's gone until tomorrow night
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[01:41:08] <eric_unterhausen> linux purists strike again
[01:41:45] <eric_unterhausen> http://pastebin.com/1zamrMwt non-gpl module causes error
[01:43:19] <eric_unterhausen> sometimes it's enough to make you want to use BSD
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[01:50:42] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: I do ue BSD. Well, the OSX flavour.
[01:51:18] <eric_unterhausen> w/linuxcnc?
[01:53:35] <andypugh> No, though it has been done, apparently
[01:53:55] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, plus I have no patience for that anyway
[01:56:00] <eric_unterhausen> curious that it failed referencing fglrx.ko, doesn't seem like that should be part of the rtai kernel
[01:56:22] <eric_unterhausen> maybe that's some cruft on my system
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[02:06:33] <eric_unterhausen> would it be fair to say that linux is written by people that benefit monetarily by linux having problems?
[02:07:12] <andypugh> No.
[02:07:32] <eric_unterhausen> because the purist kernel thing doesn't make sense to me otherwise
[02:07:49] <andypugh> I know hardly anyone who benefits from Linux o=monetarily at all
[02:07:54] <eric_unterhausen> torvalds certainly does
[02:07:58] <eric_unterhausen> and it was his decision
[02:08:12] <andypugh> As does my Linux-fellow friend.
[02:09:01] <andypugh> But they do better when it works.
[02:09:14] <eric_unterhausen> it almost works, that's the sweet spot
[02:09:41] <eric_unterhausen> not quite right, works most of the time
[02:10:48] <andypugh> http://lwn.net/Articles/419640/ is a long-time friend. It came as something of a surprise to find that he was a Linux Dude, I think he was equally surprised to find that I dabble too. We are in the same bike club. :-)
[02:10:55] <eric_unterhausen> just annoyed because torvalds doesn't understand that decisions like that hurt the linux user base more than whatever target he was aiming at
[02:11:17] <cradek> eric_unterhausen: are you sure you're mad at the right people?
[02:12:08] <eric_unterhausen> the software is deliberately broken by the linux folks
[02:12:53] <eric_unterhausen> not really angry, not even annoyed
[02:12:56] <eric_unterhausen> just spouting
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[02:15:27] <cradek> fglrx is proprietary trade-secret hiding binary blob driver stuff made by a company that keeps secrets in order to protect their ability to profit off of you. torvalds has given decades of work to you under a license that tries to protect your freedoms.
[02:15:58] <eric_unterhausen> I could tolerate it back in the day when it said some module was tainted
[02:16:12] <eric_unterhausen> actually breaking my system is over the line, imho
[02:16:49] <eric_unterhausen> i don't even want fglrx, but since it's on my system, the command fails
[02:16:57] <andypugh> I think this photo nicely sums up the srurdy nature of the cabinet:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7Mx5qLVvlDrTPlJxXtSNN9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[02:16:59] <eric_unterhausen> is that a bug or what?
[02:17:19] <cradek> well then get rid of it?
[02:17:55] <eric_unterhausen> I was trying to figure out where it came from, but the buggy software didn't exactly give me any hints
[02:18:01] <eric_unterhausen> from what I could see
[02:18:12] <tjtr33> nice work andy
[02:19:46] <RyanS> Interesting concept and somewhat accurate but really, $66
http://www.acmetools.com/tools/STARRETT+18SB+Spacing+Attachment+for+No.+18B
[02:19:56] <andypugh> I have loads of work to come on finishing it. I still need to decide if I shoulf fume it to make ot look the same age as the lathe.
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[02:23:27] <eric_unterhausen> fume it
[02:24:17] <andypugh> RyanS: If you do that a lot then $66 is cheap (it would pay back in a day). If you do it rarely, then you have your dividers. If someone offered me £40 to make that, I would politely refuse. I suspect that they haven't set up for volume production of a rarely-required widget.
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[02:25:35] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: I don't like faking. It's brand-new, perhaps it should look new until it isn't?
[02:25:56] <eric_unterhausen> fuming was done when the lathe was made :)
[02:26:18] <eric_unterhausen> if you said you were going to stain it, that's a different matter
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[02:30:09] <RyanS> true
[02:31:31] <andypugh> All the oak here (except for one 500 year old original beam) has just been ignored for 10 years. It doesn't take that long to get a natural patina.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UbuI899a2pJFu8778cuNCNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[02:31:43] <eric_unterhausen> then again, if you just shellac it, it starts looking fairly old right away
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[02:32:37] <eric_unterhausen> I've never fumed anything, but to get patina you would want to use a very dilute solution or it turns black
[02:32:38] <RyanS> And would take a fair bit of fiddling around to make. I guess
[02:33:22] <andypugh> You don't use a solution, you build a tent and put a suceer of ammonia in it
[02:33:35] <eric_unterhausen> evil amd guys promised me an uninstall script, it's not there
[02:33:42] <eric_unterhausen> bastages
[02:36:41] <RyanS> Speaking of turning stuff black.anyone tried cold black oxide treatment for steel?
[02:36:52] <eric_unterhausen> bluing?
[02:37:06] <Tom_itx> not bluing
[02:37:10] <Tom_itx> it's different
[02:37:15] <Tom_itx> and no i haven't tried it
[02:37:22] <RyanS> yeh . It's sort of
[02:37:24] <eric_unterhausen> I'm going to blue one of my bike frames
[02:37:38] <Tom_itx> proper bluing is done with heat
[02:37:42] <RyanS> There is cold and hot methods
[02:37:45] <Tom_itx> this is chemical
[02:37:55] <eric_unterhausen> that's why I'm going to have it powder coated after I blue it
[02:38:06] <andypugh> The Wiki page is informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)
[02:38:34] <RyanS> hot is better but apparently quite dangerous in a home workshop
[02:38:45] <RyanS> Toxic chemicals
[02:39:04] <eric_unterhausen> I'm going to guess that the cold methods use chemicals you don't want to drink
[02:39:25] <RyanS> That's true, but fumes
[02:39:40] <RyanS> brb
[02:40:42] <andypugh> You can polish and blue with no chemicals. But it is anyones guess what you would do to the tube heat-tratment. But then if they are alloyed to survive lug-brazing, it is probably no concern.
[02:43:27] <eric_unterhausen> so you can fume your oak with the same stuff as they fume guns with
[02:43:40] <andypugh> Try just polishing and a blow-torch if it is 531 or similar brazable steel, they don't really care what you do, that's their raison d'etre
[02:46:30] <eric_unterhausen> that's funny, speedvagen did that a while back to put the heat affected zone on before powder coating
[02:46:39] <eric_unterhausen> I think it would be tricky to make it uniform
[02:47:11] <eric_unterhausen> you usually get some black
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[02:49:21] <somenewguy> huh, regardless of where the error is, it keeps claming its on the last line....
[02:49:22] <andypugh> You can try again as many times as it takes
[02:50:17] <eric_unterhausen> I usually use heat treated tubes, so I'd rather not mess with it when I can get a can of blue for a few bucks
[02:51:22] <somenewguy> ...nvm I continue to be an idiot
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[03:01:52] <somenewguy> also sprunge is the coolest thing ever btw
[03:03:11] <andypugh> eric_unterhausen: How do you join the tubes?
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[03:09:29] <RyanS> So black oxide bolts are usually made so during heat treatment. I guess
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[03:15:33] <eric_u_cnc> andypugh, I either use lugs or fillet braze
[03:15:41] <eric_u_cnc> never learned how to tig
[03:16:07] <andypugh> So, the lugs get far hotter than blueing temp.
[03:16:18] <eric_u_cnc> fillet is hotter yet
[03:16:50] <eric_u_cnc> I forget my color chart
[03:17:28] <eric_u_cnc> but I'm pretty sure it would be hard to get a consistent color
[03:17:40] <eric_u_cnc> the blue doesn't show up until it cools
[03:18:00] <andypugh> The "special trick" of 531 is that is is cold-drawn to high strength and retains that strength through brazing. I am pretty sure you can hot-braze it safely
[03:18:39] <andypugh> (sorry, I meant hot-blue it)
[03:18:47] <eric_u_cnc> none of the heat treated tubing loses any significant strength through brazing
[03:19:08] <eric_u_cnc> I don't know if anyone around here does that
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[03:19:43] <andypugh> The dark blue is easy. The lighhter colours less so.
[03:20:11] <andypugh> A bit of a spectrum thing might actually look rarther nice
[03:20:28] <andypugh> it only costs time to try it.
[03:20:46] <eric_u_cnc> i have occasionally wondered why reynolds doesn't make 531 anymore
[03:20:50] <eric_u_cnc> they have moved on
[03:21:11] <andypugh> Competition.
[03:21:32] <RyanS> hmm not sure I see the difference between hot black oxide and hot blueing
[03:21:32] <eric_u_cnc> pretty sure they would sell enough to make it worthwhile
[03:21:36] <andypugh> The new stuff is probably TIG-able etc.
[03:21:51] <RyanS> Cold black oxide seems pretty pointless. However
[03:22:01] <eric_u_cnc> they have a fairly extensive product line, some of it very 531-like
[03:23:25] <eric_u_cnc> columbus sells something called "sl" that is nothing like the old stuff, it's marketing
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[03:25:59] <andypugh> 953 is basically twice as strong, and it is stainless too.
[03:26:52] <eric_unterhausen> too much money for me
[03:27:00] <RyanS> TIG looks like it would be fun to learn. can braze dissimilar metals as well as well as only requiring 1 type of gas
[03:27:25] <andypugh> Full list here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_Cycle_Technology
[03:28:22] <RyanS> A lot more versatile but slower than any other welding process. It seems
[03:29:30] <eric_unterhausen> I think I could pick up tig pretty fast, but I don't feel like spending $3kusd on it
[03:29:50] <RyanS> You don't need to spend that much
[03:29:56] <andypugh> You don't need to.
[03:30:02] <RyanS> Especially if you don't need to aluminium
[03:30:06] <eric_unterhausen> it adds up pretty fast
[03:31:01] <RyanS> its aluminium that requires AC and more expensive equipment,
[03:31:06] <eric_unterhausen> if I went with tig, it would be for Ti
[03:31:22] <eric_unterhausen> there is no reason for me to tig a steel frame
[03:31:27] <RyanS> I think you can do that with DC
[03:31:55] <andypugh> This has HF start and is $300. (or suggests so)
[03:31:57] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-in-1-TIG-DC-PULSE-FREQUENCY-HF-WELDER-200-AMP-MOSFET-INVERTER-MMA-ARC-STICK-/321245302013?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item4acbb64cfd
[03:32:05] <eric_unterhausen> I asked a friend why he didn't build aluminum, he told me that you can get a reasonably good frame from Tiawan for $25
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[03:32:46] <RyanS> am not sure, however, but titanium is a bitch to weld
[03:33:07] <eric_unterhausen> all the people I know that want me to build them a frame want Ti
[03:33:26] <andypugh> Though you might as well go for a HF / AC set like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-I-TIG-200T-TIG-WELDER-/171137324069?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item27d8945425 so that you can do Aluminium too.
[03:33:31] <eric_unterhausen> just when the bicycle Ti tube makers have quit making tubes
[03:33:53] <eric_unterhausen> I've heard the everlast welders are pretty good
[03:34:08] <RyanS> I think you have to back purge everything with titanium
[03:34:18] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, purge is expensive
[03:34:19] <andypugh> If I wanted to make a Ti frame I would use glue and machined lugs.
[03:34:49] <eric_unterhausen> if I wanted to make a Ti frame, I would buy some stainless :)
[03:34:52] <andypugh> Sleep time
[03:34:56] <Tom_itx> aww
[03:34:59] <Tom_itx> it's the new year
[03:35:04] <Tom_itx> stay up and party!
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[03:35:19] <Tom_itx> guess he didn't fall for it
[03:35:20] <eric_unterhausen> isn't it 4am there?
[03:35:27] <Tom_itx> something like that
[03:35:44] <eric_unterhausen> if I go to bed after 3, I might as well skip it
[03:36:12] <RyanS> AC and high-frequency start would seem like the best features, but I don't know if you need things like ac balance , up/down slope. I think post gas is pretty important
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[03:37:08] <eric_unterhausen> there was a big kerfluffle recently because one of the high-end frame companies wasn't using enough gas
[03:37:24] <eric_unterhausen> and their welds were a nice blue color
[03:37:39] <eric_unterhausen> which is unacceptable for just about anyone that cares about weld longevity
[03:38:10] <jdh> you have to use helium with Ti?
[03:38:47] <eric_unterhausen> helium is in short supply, everyone uses argon unless it's really high value piece
[03:39:27] <jdh> short supply where?
[03:39:30] <eric_unterhausen> helium used to be produced by the U.S. gvmnt, they tried to get private industry to make it but it didn't happen
[03:39:40] <jdh> stockpiled
[03:39:46] <RyanS> helium I think is for a higher current really thick stuff
[03:40:03] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, but we've been drawing down the stockpile for a while
[03:40:27] <RyanS> Also, argon is heavier than air so it stays where you want it apparently
[03:41:00] <eric_unterhausen> it's just not as good
[03:41:25] <eric_unterhausen> BITD, they called TIG "heliarc"
[03:41:37] <eric_unterhausen> not argoarc
[03:41:48] <RyanS> eric_unterhausen
http://lostgarage.com/blogs/news/8182739-tig-welders-compared-miller-dynasty-200dx-vs-everlast-powertig-200dx . This is a good review
[03:42:19] <RyanS> But I don't think anyone really uses helium unless it some special reason
[03:42:55] <eric_unterhausen> the bike guys imply that argon is a bit expensive because they use so much
[03:43:04] <eric_unterhausen> 1 frame = a tank
[03:43:55] <eric_unterhausen> when I first looked, the Dynasty cost $1700, price has been going up precipitously since then
[03:43:55] <RyanS> Surely not 8lpm -10 is usually the amount
[03:44:20] <eric_unterhausen> I dunno, this is what I read
[03:44:21] <RyanS> $5000 machine
[03:44:27] <eric_unterhausen> they also back-purge
[03:44:43] <RyanS> That could be why
[03:44:48] <eric_unterhausen> I haven't figured out what Miller was up to
[03:45:03] <eric_unterhausen> I somehow doubt their costs have doubled
[03:45:48] <RyanS> I think it's more like duty cycle... You pay more for that if you are going to welding all day long
[03:46:07] <eric_unterhausen> Dynasty doesn't have a great reputation
[03:46:12] <eric_unterhausen> people want synchrowaves
[03:46:54] <jdh> I pay $89 for 300ft^3 of HP-Helium
[03:46:59] <jdh> used to be $59
[03:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> don't they pay you to take argon?
[03:47:32] <RyanS> How thick is the tube for bike frames?
[03:47:54] <eric_unterhausen> not sure about Ti, steel is .7 mm
[03:47:58] <eric_unterhausen> in the welded areas
[03:48:21] <RyanS> Don't think need much amps for that
[03:48:30] <eric_unterhausen> no, the lowest setting
[03:49:03] <eric_unterhausen> it's like the old welders that would cut a coke can in half and weld it back together
[03:51:51] <eric_unterhausen> at the end of the miller/everlast comparo, they talk about getting good helmets
[03:52:08] <eric_unterhausen> apparently a lot of welders like the $50 HF auto-darkening helmet
[03:52:36] <eric_unterhausen> surprised me, I figured everything in HF was worse than trash
[03:52:49] <RyanS> I think I'd be a bit worried when dealing with my eyeballs
[03:52:57] <RyanS> Think I'd rather spend the extra cash
[03:53:10] <RyanS> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power-I-Tig-200-348-pd.html this can do everything but aluminium
[03:53:23] <eric_unterhausen> that's the thing, they say it's no worse than the high-price spread
[03:53:37] <eric_unterhausen> you will get flashed with a auto-darkening helmet from what I hear
[03:55:09] <RyanS> yeh also apparently the better ones react to the electromagnetic 'signature' of tig
[03:55:31] <RyanS> So they react before the ARC even strikes
[03:55:59] <eric_unterhausen> the guys I know use gold plated lenses on their helmets
[03:56:14] <RyanS> Interesting
[03:56:15] <eric_unterhausen> I have enough eye problems I'm not sure I would bother with auto-darkening
[03:56:27] <eric_unterhausen> the fixed lenses are reasonably priced
[03:57:06] <RyanS> yeh u can just get into the habit of flipping it down
[03:57:37] <eric_unterhausen> it always drove me crazy to see the guys on tv weld with their eyes shut
[03:57:53] <eric_unterhausen> jessie james, for example
[03:58:00] <RyanS> someone said you can use a flashlight, but I can't see how that would give any visibility
[03:58:47] <RyanS> In the US you can also purchase a gas bottle? You don't have to do a lease?
[03:58:58] <eric_unterhausen> just small ones
[03:59:09] <eric_unterhausen> I own my own oxygen/acetylene tanks
[03:59:25] <eric_unterhausen> I am thinking about getting an oxygen concentrator and using propane
[03:59:58] <RyanS> Can't even purchase in Australia. You have to rent because the gas suppliers won't refill
[04:00:10] <eric_unterhausen> in a lot of places you aren't supposed to have acetylene in a house or attached garage, and they can't deliver to a residential address
[04:00:46] <eric_unterhausen> I bought my tanks from my gas supplier
[04:00:52] <RyanS> I don't even think it's regulation. I think it's monopolistic gas companies who make a great deal out of rental
[04:01:17] <eric_unterhausen> when I first started buying gas, they just gave you the bottles
[04:01:33] <eric_unterhausen> gave == lent
[04:01:58] <eric_unterhausen> so it's funny to see someone selling grandpa's bottles, because they probably belong to the gas company
[04:02:06] <eric_unterhausen> they always want top dollar too
[04:02:21] <RyanS> hmm, is Oxy fuel welding anything like an alternative to tig?
[04:02:34] <RyanS> As far as versatility?
[04:02:49] <eric_unterhausen> you can't do non-ferrous metals
[04:03:03] <RyanS> Except in Australia. That means renting and two bottles rather than just argon
[04:03:17] <RyanS> You can't weld aluminium?
[04:03:40] <eric_unterhausen> there are ways of doing it, but it's not great
[04:03:46] <RyanS> Maybe they just braze
[04:04:06] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I think there is aluminum brazing rod
[04:04:13] <eric_unterhausen> but it is not particularly strong
[04:04:59] <eric_unterhausen> for making bikes and glasswork, an oxygen concentrator and propane makes sense
[04:05:25] <eric_unterhausen> I assume you can still use a gas grill in Australia?
[04:06:07] <eric_unterhausen> and there is a constant supply of oxygen concentrators because the medical supply companies make more money selling new ones
[04:06:12] <RyanS> You can own barbecue bottles, no problem, just not industrial gas
[04:06:36] <eric_unterhausen> which is funny because propane is heavier than air, so more likely to blow up your house
[04:07:22] <RyanS> does a good air propane torch have enough ooomph for annealing or really you need oxygen?
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[04:07:54] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think you would be happy with it
[04:08:10] <eric_unterhausen> they do make better air-propane torches, I have no experience with them
[04:08:36] <eric_unterhausen> playing tricks with heat bricks is probably in order
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[04:09:49] <RyanS> http://www.weldmart.com.au/img/products/Turbo%20200.jpg you can use these but the problem is the fuel will last a couple of hours . However, the oxygen less than 30 minutes If you're lucky
[04:13:25] <RyanS> I suppose plenty of people build a little gas forge
[04:15:14] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, you want to use a tank for a grill and an oxygen concentrator
[04:15:34] <eric_unterhausen> in the u.s., the oxygen concentrators go for $300-500
[04:16:11] <eric_unterhausen> Austrailians are healthier, so they cost more due to lack of supply
[04:16:27] <RyanS> yeh, I think you can also use forced air
[04:16:51] <RyanS> Not sure aren't we supposed to drink a lot
[04:17:06] <eric_unterhausen> I believe so
[04:17:23] <RyanS> I don't even like beer. It's horrible
[04:17:48] <eric_unterhausen> ok, I'm surprised you aren't off floating on an iceburg with that comment
[04:18:07] <RyanS> An iceberg?
[04:18:24] <eric_unterhausen> banished
[04:18:30] <RyanS> I'm into good spirits
[04:18:44] <eric_unterhausen> no, I mean involuntarily
[04:19:06] <eric_unterhausen> although having friends that won't drink your beer can be a good thing
[04:19:10] <RyanS> As in hard liquor
[04:19:36] <RyanS> Cocktails..
[04:20:18] <RyanS> I don't do wine or beer
[04:24:29] <eric_unterhausen> now I'm learning more than I want to about dkms
[04:25:42] <RyanS> dkms?
[04:26:01] <eric_unterhausen> dynamic kernel module system
[04:26:15] <eric_unterhausen> it builds kernel modules if you install a new kernel
[04:26:28] <eric_unterhausen> keeping me from installing the rtai-headers
[04:27:12] <RyanS> I know nothing about linux :P I'm just here to talk about metal work
[04:27:36] <eric_unterhausen> I'm fond of metalworking myself
[04:28:46] <eric_unterhausen> although most recently I've been grinding glass
[04:29:54] <RyanS> urgh building your own propane burner sounds a bit risky
[04:30:34] <eric_unterhausen> it's usually pretty cheap to buy
[04:30:56] <eric_unterhausen> libfglrx_ip.a is apparently the evil binary blob
[04:32:48] <eric_unterhausen> ok, taking bets on if i'm about to hose my system
[04:33:46] <RyanS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jBVa2bw3r_k#t=164 . I like this idea, but using a propane torch with a barbecue bottle
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[04:35:04] <eric_unterhausen> ya, heat bricks
[04:35:59] <eric_unterhausen> yay, no hosed system
[04:36:20] <eric_unterhausen> too bad I have to go to the basement to reboot the computer
[04:37:24] <eric_unterhausen> I had an electric oven that would heat treat, but the last thing I needed was another project so I gave up on it
[04:37:33] <eric_unterhausen> gave it to a starving artist
[04:38:21] <eric_unterhausen> I have successfully heat treated O2 steel with an acetylene torch, so having an oven was surplus anyway
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[04:51:46] <RyanS> We have all this steel, stainless and aluminium engineering stock at home but who knows specifically what type.. Some of them still have text like 316 stainless etc but the rest is just a guess
[04:54:53] <RyanS> My old man purchased two cabinets from a Kodak insolvency sale I guess business still had in-house machine shops for repairs and replacement parts
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[04:55:21] <RyanS> Lots of stock metal
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[05:42:12] <rootB> hey linuxcnc
[05:42:19] <rootB> Do you got experience using a proxon spindle?
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[06:04:15] <eric_unterhausen> ha, forgot to change kernels
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[06:56:19] <eric_unterhausen> I was really impressed that I remembered the name of the package with hm2 firmware
[06:56:37] <eric_unterhausen> right up to the point where I tried to start linuxcnc and got an error due to the lack of firmware
[07:00:26] <eric_unterhausen> hostmot2-firmware-5i20 worked
[07:06:02] <eric_unterhausen> well, I managed to break pncconf
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[07:07:15] <RyanS> Just tried out the MIG on pure CO2. Not bad, very little splatter but it is sounded a little ferocious it seemed
[07:10:25] <eric_unterhausen> but after all that hoo-ha, I seem to have linuxcnc running on precise with about 14uS latency
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[07:24:47] <toastydeath> I really wish I could find a paper or book on welding that covered the physics of gas composition
[07:25:04] <toastydeath> like Sandvik had that book on cutting tools for machining
[07:25:16] <toastydeath> and went into the mechanics of it fairly deeply
[07:25:50] <eric_unterhausen> which kind of welding?
[07:26:03] <RyanS> There's a few engineering books on welding at my university library just can't be bothered looking
[07:26:06] <toastydeath> welding, in general
[07:26:33] <toastydeath> the Sandvik book was bigger than Machinery's handbook and covered literally everything
[07:26:55] <eric_unterhausen> the AWS sponsors a lot of research
[07:27:03] <toastydeath> from how heat was generated in the cutting zone, to how to build a deep hole drill
[07:27:07] <eric_unterhausen> there probably is a big book about welding somewhere
[07:27:18] <toastydeath> I can find stuff on like, process tutorials
[07:27:26] <toastydeath> but not to the same level as the cutting book
[07:27:38] <eric_unterhausen> I just got a book about steam, 750 pages about hot water
[07:27:48] <toastydeath> yeah, that's the kind of thing i'm looking for
[07:27:51] <eric_unterhausen> it's amazing how much information it has in it
[07:28:19] <eric_unterhausen> I think it's around, one of the faculty is doing distortion testing down the hall
[07:28:22] <eric_unterhausen> I'll ask him
[07:28:43] <eric_unterhausen> he keeps telling me he would do things with tig, I tell him I don't want to
[07:28:54] <toastydeath> any particular reason
[07:28:56] <toastydeath> I loved tig
[07:29:13] <eric_unterhausen> I am highly skilled at brazing, don't know how to tig
[07:29:53] <toastydeath> I was good at stick, apparently impressive at tig, and horrifying with mig
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[07:30:05] <toastydeath> never brazed anything, but need to learn
[07:30:19] <eric_unterhausen> I can mig weld if I have to
[07:30:45] <RyanS> "Prevention of humping bead associated with high welding speed by double-electrode gas metal arc welding" and nice title
[07:31:06] <eric_unterhausen> I have some mig welds that have held up over a decade in a fatigue application
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[07:31:48] <toastydeath> I learned tig from some dude who made dragster frames
[07:31:56] <toastydeath> as part of my votech program for machining
[07:32:08] <eric_unterhausen> I always wanted to get into TIG, but there are only so many hours in a day and it's down the list
[07:32:13] <toastydeath> he offered me a spot on his welding team and hounded me for like 2 years to join the welding program
[07:32:39] <toastydeath> the guy before him was ridiculous, but retired
[07:32:54] <eric_unterhausen> my daughter knows someone that took a welding program and can barely weld
[07:32:55] <toastydeath> little community college with an insane amount of skill in the trades
[07:33:21] <toastydeath> all the machinists are long time tool and die makers, and the welding guys are even more credentialed
[07:33:45] <toastydeath> they taught welding titanium and cast iron if you wanted them to
[07:34:19] <toastydeath> looking back i should have taken at least a few classes on the welding side
[07:34:33] <toastydeath> and yeah, most of the kids out of the program couldn't weld or machine for shit
[07:34:46] <eric_unterhausen> it's useful, and having a tig around would be nice
[07:34:47] <toastydeath> it was a CC, and the curriculum was easy. you had to actually ask
[07:34:51] <eric_unterhausen> I'm stuck gas welding
[07:35:21] <eric_unterhausen> that's interesting, I would think that would produce a lot of crappy graduates
[07:35:26] <toastydeath> it does
[07:35:42] <toastydeath> I'd love to learn to gas weld, it seems awesome, but i only learned flame cutting
[07:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> of course, students have always wanted to do the least amount of work for the most grade
[07:36:17] <toastydeath> it was amazing for the students who cared, because you were given free reign and had access to incredibly seasoned veteran tradesmen
[07:36:29] <eric_unterhausen> one of my profs in grad school was nearly reduced to tears when he was trying to help us understand something
[07:36:34] <toastydeath> but it didn't mean shit for the companies trying to hire, because you could get a dumbass really easily
[07:36:43] <RyanS> I don't understand this, people seem to say how difficult TIG is and I can understand it requires dexterity and more practice
[07:37:08] <eric_unterhausen> there are a lot of things going on at once
[07:37:11] <toastydeath> Tig requires juggling a lot of varibles
[07:37:34] <RyanS> MIG is apparently so easy but that still requires practice
[07:37:40] <toastydeath> in your dominant hand, you have the torch - the angle of the electrode and distance from the work matters a lot, as does the welding pattern you use
[07:37:40] <eric_unterhausen> brazing is the same way, not everyone can do it, but for a lot of people it's easy
[07:37:55] <toastydeath> change any one of those three things on just that hand, and your weld will change
[07:38:39] <toastydeath> in your non-dominant hand, you have filler metal, which you have to add to the weld pool at the appropriate time while also making sure you're feeding it into your hand as well
[07:38:50] <toastydeath> it's very literally doing two things at once in just that hand
[07:38:55] <toastydeath> then your foot control the electrode current
[07:38:59] <toastydeath> or voltage, depending on how the machine's set
[07:39:17] <toastydeath> and you'll vary that as the part heats up
[07:39:25] <toastydeath> to maintain the correct weld pool size
[07:39:45] <toastydeath> you also have to worry about the color and shape of the arc
[07:40:00] <toastydeath> as that tells you when your electrode is contaminated or need to be reshaped
[07:41:27] <toastydeath> with mig and stick, none of that gets modified during the welding process
[07:41:28] <RyanS> I've read a couple of books on the theory, but I still don't get if you sent your machine to 200 A does that mean the foot control provides a range of 0 to 200. Likewise with whatever Max your machine is set to?
[07:41:46] <toastydeath> yeah
[07:43:05] <toastydeath> I set my current to something more than what I needed but not a whole lot
[07:43:15] <toastydeath> so that if you needed some additional heat, it was there, but you weren't going to blow through your material
[07:43:32] <RyanS> So what is the point of a figure control, it surely is not terribly ergonomic to roll the amperage knob with your finger
[07:43:46] <toastydeath> it's not
[07:44:02] <RyanS> Not very popular. I guess then
[07:44:18] <toastydeath> if you're welding on something not at a bench, like a large casting or structural work
[07:44:24] <toastydeath> you don't have the option to use a foot control
[07:45:37] <RyanS> So if you got really good at using the foot control. You can probably set the machine to max on whatever job?
[07:45:50] <toastydeath> no
[07:46:04] <RyanS> It's easy to overdo it?
[07:46:07] <toastydeath> yes
[07:46:21] <toastydeath> the current required doesn't change all that much
[07:46:45] <toastydeath> and there are other techniques you can use to handle discontinuous thicknesses or thick/thin welding
[07:47:10] <RyanS> Makes sense. I guess if you're joining razorblades and coke cans
[07:47:24] <RyanS> You can easily blast right through
[07:47:43] <toastydeath> you can even make a mess of thick shit if you keep your welder at 200A
[07:49:17] <RyanS> It doesn't make sense to me how my MIG has only four voltage settings I mean, seems like a very coarse adjustment
[07:49:36] <RyanS> I know it's a different process....
[07:50:06] <toastydeath> that's a very inexpensive welder
[07:51:02] <RyanS> yeh, bu but I see even some expensive welders with stepped voltage and not a huge amount of variability
[07:51:08] <toastydeath> which ones
[07:52:14] <RyanS> Can't remember, however, some have more than 20 steps were as others not even particularly cheap have about six
[07:52:31] <toastydeath> I mean "cheap" brand new welders are like ~500-1000
[07:52:50] <toastydeath> so it's a matter of scale, i suppose
[07:53:18] <toastydeath> i would suggest most people buy used and buy a better, older one than a newer one with few adjustments
[07:53:25] <RyanS> How much does that actually matter if you don't do ultra-thin sheet metal but 2-4mm steel section
[07:53:36] <toastydeath> it can matter quite a deal, actually
[07:53:59] <toastydeath> metal running all over, lots of slag to clean up
[07:54:05] <toastydeath> shitty starts and stops
[07:54:20] <toastydeath> remember that you're running a dead short
[07:54:29] <toastydeath> and a small change in voltage can mean a big change in current
[07:54:44] <RyanS> I would get a tig , it's actually not my mig
[07:55:04] <toastydeath> the nice thing about most TIG welders is that you can do all three processes on them
[07:55:13] <toastydeath> stick, tig, and mig
[07:55:21] <RyanS> I would imagine that they give you the voltage settings that most home handyman typically use
[07:55:56] <toastydeath> that doesn't make any sense
[07:56:10] <toastydeath> you don't know what voltage you're going to use until you start welding and see how it runs
[07:56:18] <toastydeath> it's not like a socket set with fixed sizes
[07:56:51] <toastydeath> you are controlling the amount of heat, and if you are stuck with and either/or choice when you need something between, you will eventually have to make a compromise
[07:57:42] <RyanS> As I said I wouldn't have bought it :) mig and to me seems no advantage at all over stick welding in the home workshop
[07:57:52] <toastydeath> Mig's like a hot glue gun
[07:57:57] <toastydeath> Tig takes a lot of setup and prep
[07:58:05] <RyanS> You don't even need gas for stick
[07:58:14] <toastydeath> stick's a fucking mess
[07:58:25] <toastydeath> you're going to be cleaning shit up for ages
[07:58:48] <toastydeath> I would use stick with odd materials (cast iron, maybe) or in hard to reach locations on a genset welder
[07:59:07] <toastydeath> but in the shop, with the usual suspects for material, MIG is fast, and TIG is strong
[07:59:20] <toastydeath> (mig can also be strong but it's easy to make great looking, shit welds with mig)
[08:00:13] <toastydeath> MIG is great for doing basic shop work where you're trying to do tooling or fixturing
[08:00:22] <Jymmm> HNY !!!
[08:00:25] <toastydeath> it's fast, and essentially turn on and go
[08:00:40] <toastydeath> TIG is awesome for repair and things you're actually going to load up with force
[08:01:00] <RyanS> Is not like I need to do much welding shit, but I would like to be a will to easily switch between stainless, aluminium, and copper. tig just requires a different rod and tungsten change
[08:01:12] <toastydeath> ya
[08:01:15] <toastydeath> tig is king for that
[08:01:56] <toastydeath> also different gas
[08:03:56] <RyanS> Don't you just use Argon for every Tig process?
[08:04:01] <toastydeath> no
[08:04:56] <archivist> stick is bad for cast iron
[08:05:14] <RyanS> hmm so you want to do, stainless, you would use O2 mix..... Same as MIG?
[08:05:55] <toastydeath> RyanS, you'll have to look it up
[08:06:05] <toastydeath> I never got into the gas mixtures
[08:06:12] <toastydeath> just used what people pointed me toward
[08:06:15] <archivist> a local cast iron welder (internationally known) heats the item up and uses gas
[08:06:34] <toastydeath> gas is good on cast iron because of the distributed heat, yeah
[08:06:51] <toastydeath> but stick also works if work is being actively heated
[08:07:06] <archivist> I have seen the work (used them) excellent
[08:07:39] <RyanS> ok. Imagine the gas bill for a fabricatio shop , considering the amount of different processes and materials they work with
[08:08:09] <RyanS> "
[08:08:18] <archivist> I did some stick with heated iron still got some cracking if we were not careful
[08:08:36] <toastydeath> you can get cracking with gas if you're not careful
[08:08:42] <RyanS> "Give us every mix you've got"
[08:08:43] <toastydeath> cast iron sucks to weld, that's just how it is
[08:08:51] <toastydeath> RyanS, it's not that many different mixes
[08:09:02] <toastydeath> and most shops will use one or two mixes more than anything else
[08:09:32] <toastydeath> my old shop went through like 30 lbs of endmills per week
[08:09:49] <toastydeath> (the ones we sent for sharpening and didn't throw away)
[08:09:54] <toastydeath> consumables cost money
[08:10:58] <RyanS> haha I was silly enough to grab a Chuck of cast-iron attempt to stick weld to mild steeld. I should have had a clue from the chips produced when drilling
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[08:11:16] <RyanS> It was mixed and with the mild steel
[08:11:50] <Deejay> moin
[08:12:16] <Deejay> happy new year to everyone!
[08:12:28] <RyanS> I hate machining cast-iron, makes a mess..
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[08:16:43] <somenewguy> rootb, do you?
[08:16:57] <somenewguy> I am thinkin about doing such a thing
[08:17:10] <archivist> I love cast
[08:17:29] <archivist> good metal can be polished
http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=cast+pendulum
[08:17:49] <RyanS> Yes, the old pendulum
[08:17:58] <RyanS> What did you use to polish?
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[08:23:09] <archivist> wet and dry paper
[08:24:54] <RyanS> That it.... hmm I just mustn't have spent enough time polishing
[08:26:00] <toastydeath> there's an old projects where somebody replaced all the contact surfaces on an old Atlas lathe with air bearings
[08:26:33] <toastydeath> took off all the drive gear and used a counterweighted cable to drive the carriage and cross slide
[08:26:41] <toastydeath> mirror finish straight from turning
[08:26:44] <toastydeath> i can't find the link
[08:27:04] <toastydeath> but at that point you might as well just build a whole new lathe
[08:28:19] <toastydeath> speaking of mirror finishes, why aren't used centerless grinders cheaper
[08:28:21] <toastydeath> they're like 14k
[08:28:30] <toastydeath> for an old ass #2 cinci centerless
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[08:38:33] <RyanS> yep that MIG sucks. Even the cheapest everlast has stepless voltage control
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[12:38:12] <rootB> Hello linuxCNC, someone from #reprap just told me you guys know a lot about CNC.
[12:38:22] <rootB> I have a shapeoko Spindle-based CNC.
[12:38:38] <rootB> And im having issues with my Z-AXIS
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[12:50:27] <jthornton> http://geoff.greer.fm/2012/05/19/programmer-irc-etiquette/
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[12:55:45] <jthornton> logger[psha], log
[12:57:14] <jthornton> https://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc
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[13:02:57] <jthornton> interesting little machine
[13:05:10] <archivist> what issues
[13:05:59] <jthornton> happy new year archivist
[13:06:38] <archivist> happy new year and all that crap :)
[13:06:45] <jthornton> lol
[13:07:50] <archivist> I wonder if someone will ask the real question or are we supposed to beat it out of him
[13:08:45] <jthornton> he's not even here anymore
[13:08:50] <jthornton> didn't stay long
[13:09:47] <archivist> I wonder if its a speaking in public issue with him
[13:10:41] <jthornton> maybe a short attention span
[13:13:21] <archivist> or he did not understand the basics of asking a question that people can answer which
https://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc is supposed to help with
[13:14:23] <ReadError> plus he said reprap ;/
[13:17:37] <jthornton> I thought it was repcrap
[13:19:25] <archivist> pay more and you can get renotmuchbetter
[13:19:51] <archivist> repnotmuchbetter
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[16:27:44] <somenewguy> I thought I saw there was a way to have a comment or some such that as a line is evaluated in a .ngc it will print it somewhere?
[16:28:04] <somenewguy> bascially iwant to do some debugging and if I could get it to output a few values as it runs it would help me find the issue with my math
[16:30:25] <jdh> debug
[16:31:43] <jdh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/overview.html#sec:debug-messages
[16:31:58] <jdh> or msg, or print
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[16:39:41] <eric_unterhausen> everyone has issues with their shapeoko z axis. They have a forum about it
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[16:44:53] <ReadError> lol
[16:45:00] <ReadError> dedicated to z axis problems?
[16:45:57] <eric_unterhausen> no, but plenty of hate and discontent about it
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[16:58:56] <eric_unterhausen> my shapeoko has flat spots on the vee-wheels
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[17:07:00] <JT-Shop> if you ever wonder why a gas tank from a 1956 tractor has twigs in it... they didn't have flashlights
[17:07:27] -!- somenewguy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:07:37] <eric_unterhausen> and they didn't have fuel gages either, I guess
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[17:10:16] <JT-Shop> nope
[17:10:25] * JT-Shop just got the last twig out of the tank
[17:11:10] <JT-Shop> I've been pulling sticks and twigs out of that tank for 15 years
[17:11:52] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8 <- MUHAHA... nice, with "hand-PWM"
[17:12:03] <inventor42> Anyone have a recommendation for Brushless DC Servo drives?
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[17:12:46] <JT-Shop> you have servos and need drives?
[17:13:07] <inventor42> Correct
[17:14:27] <eric_unterhausen> Loetmichael, on-off switch is not holding the wire up to the overhead wire
[17:14:45] <eric_unterhausen> how many people do they lose a year due to that?
[17:15:20] <JT-Shop> inventor42, Mesa has a 7i39 BLDC driver
[17:15:41] <Loetmichel> eric_unterhausen: tell that the albanians
[17:16:02] <Loetmichel> they even make the "speed control" bei intermittient contact to the overhead line ;)
[17:16:05] <JT-Shop> inventor42, how many watts is your servo motor?
[17:16:22] <eric_unterhausen> takes an experienced operator
[17:16:39] <eric_unterhausen> I do mining safety work on the side
[17:16:56] <eric_unterhausen> hate to see what the practices are inside the mine
[17:17:54] <Loetmichel> if i read the comments correctly that locomotove was battery powered
[17:18:25] <Loetmichel> assuming that the batterys died somwhre years ago and they took a big welder and some cable... _> voila, overhead train
[17:18:26] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:18:28] <inventor42> JT-Shop: Something like this...
http://www.motionsolutions.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3599&idcategory=702
[17:18:37] <JT-Shop> looks like pico also has one
http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3&products_id=20
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[17:20:43] <JT-Shop> doesn't say how many watts or I'm getting blind
[17:20:59] <inventor42> Ever used one of those?
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[17:21:15] <pcw_home> They seem to have left that minor detail put
[17:21:23] <pcw_home> out
[17:22:56] <eric_unterhausen> Peter, what power supply do you use?
[17:23:02] <pcw_home> since its a Technics motor, why no just use a matching Technics drive?
[17:23:13] <pcw_home> power for what?
[17:23:32] <eric_unterhausen> for the 7i39
[17:23:53] <pcw_home> depending on model 24 or 36V
[17:24:10] <pcw_home> 8I20 uses rectified 220V line
[17:25:21] <inventor42> That's an option. I was given some motors and know little about CNC. Just trying to learn
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[17:25:47] <IchGuckLive> hi al From germany its 2014 ;-)
[17:25:58] <pcw_home> do you have the motor voltage or current specs?
[17:26:38] <pcw_home> Hi IchGuckLive
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[17:27:06] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: hi no log for today psha needs to ad a year
[17:28:11] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: this year it might be the mesa year of getting almost all cnc custemers toyour struff
[17:28:25] <inventor42> I have 2 kinds of those motors. One kind is 11.6V (8.5A). I believe the other is around 23V? (4.3A)?
[17:29:17] <IchGuckLive> with or without gearing atatched inventor42
[17:30:59] <inventor42> One is labelled: 8.5A cont; 6000 rpm; Class F; 25C; 116.2 oz-in; 11.6 V/krpm
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[17:31:55] <inventor42> Shave a lovejoy coupler that I want to use to direct drive a ballscrew
[17:32:02] <IchGuckLive> ok got the locks to read inventor42 where are you from in the world
[17:32:08] <inventor42> Oops. Shave = have
[17:32:15] <inventor42> US
[17:32:21] <IchGuckLive> im in Germany
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[17:33:09] <pcw_home> so thats roughly a 90V 30A drive
[17:33:48] <IchGuckLive> most got the 100V brigh inside
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[17:35:08] <somenewguy> my sim is suddenly ignoring a G41 line and I ahve no idea why
[17:35:26] <IchGuckLive> D is missing somenewguy
[17:35:32] <IchGuckLive> G41 D4
[17:35:38] <somenewguy> it was working 2 minutes ago, I had tochagne an equation further down in the code to try andgetthe arc I was wanting, and now G40 is perpetually active
[17:35:40] <IchGuckLive> G41 D1
[17:35:48] <somenewguy> I thought if a tool was already loaded D was optional?
[17:35:55] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:36:07] <somenewguy> it seemed to be working before with no D
[17:36:23] <somenewguy> is there a way I can make it check what tool is active? this is for a subroutine
[17:36:38] <JT-Shop> how did you "load" the tool?
[17:36:45] <somenewguy> N6 T4
[17:36:47] <somenewguy> M6
[17:36:50] <somenewguy> thru mDI
[17:37:10] <JT-Shop> D is optional for G41/42
[17:37:25] <JT-Shop> did the status bar show T4?
[17:37:33] <inventor42> Is there an easy way to "test" a servo without buying a drive? Something that will drive it continuously with no feedback. Just to see if this thing works
[17:37:44] <IchGuckLive> inventor42: consideer a Leadshine ACS606
[17:38:21] <somenewguy> at the bottom of axis it shows the tool info
[17:38:30] <IchGuckLive> inventor42: if its a BLCD
[17:38:33] <JT-Shop> did you know that Tn M6 only loads the tool diameter?
[17:38:42] <inventor42> I did look at those. But I'm working blind. That's a good one? Relatively reliable and easy to work with?
[17:38:46] <somenewguy> it does not show T4 in the active g-codes window, if it should
[17:39:15] <somenewguy> jt-shop, no i did not
[17:40:07] <JT-Shop> I don't think T shows up there but if you go to Machine > Show LinuxCNC Status
[17:40:13] <somenewguy> so M61 is what I should be using?
[17:40:34] <somenewguy> oh no it isnt, misread that
[17:40:43] * somenewguy checks
[17:40:44] <JT-Shop> if you want the length offset you put G43 after M6
[17:41:54] <somenewguy> it shows tool in spindle = 4 so it knows its there
[17:42:25] <somenewguy> thething that has me super confused, is I am about 99.9% sure I only changed some text in a G02 line further down in the code, and did not touch anything else when this issue started
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[17:42:57] <somenewguy> Im going to go look again for a stray keystroke
[17:43:47] <somenewguy> oh and a related question, since my sub relys on tool diameter to complete, is there a way I can get axis to error out or not attempt to evaluate it if no tool is loaded?
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[17:44:13] <somenewguy> some kind of "if tooldiam == 0, ERROR "please load a tool first""
[17:44:46] <somenewguy> because if <5410> is 0, you will get stuck in an infinite loop, and that's just rude
[17:44:47] <JT-Shop> somenewguy,
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/overview.html#_numbered_parameters_a_id_sub_numbered_parameters_a
[17:45:09] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:conditional
[17:48:14] <somenewguy> ok those things I do understand, I guess my big question is is there a tool I can use to generate my own custom error message (or message period) after evaluating such a conditional that I know is bad
[17:48:39] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/overview.html#sec:messages
[17:48:55] <JT-Shop> and
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/overview.html#sec:debug-messages
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[17:53:34] <somenewguy> thank you! for some reason I wasn't turning that up
[17:53:40] <somenewguy> I knew I had seen it before tho
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[17:54:10] <somenewguy> however I still see no issue with my M41, do you have a second to see if it gets ignored for you too?
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[17:56:16] <somenewguy> or if anyone here wants to see if it will respect tool offset for them I would appreciate it
[17:56:18] <somenewguy> http://pastebin.com/A79xssVT
[17:56:53] <somenewguy> just note that there is an arc at line 63 or so that may fail and need to be commented out
[17:57:07] <somenewguy> thats what I was working on when I noticed this issue had apperaed
[17:57:41] <IchGuckLive> G41 not M
[17:57:45] <somenewguy> gonna go grab a cup of coffee, been working on this sicne I woke up and just realized how much I need that right now
[17:58:10] <somenewguy> did I say G41//
[17:58:15] <somenewguy> errr oh right
[17:58:24] <somenewguy> yeah thats not whatI did in my code, just a brain fart on IRC
[17:59:34] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy:
http://pastebin.com/PA1Zc1ts
[18:01:03] <JT-Shop> somenewguy, I don't see where your calling your subroutine
[18:01:10] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/o-code.html#sec:subroutines
[18:02:07] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: in the example same contour is called with same tool in 3 different diameters
[18:02:25] <IchGuckLive> so Rouphing first finish and a meshure correction path
[18:03:11] <IchGuckLive> all called and done with heekscad CRC post for linuxcnc
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[18:13:05] <somenewguy> I made a file that has the sub commented out to make debugging easier
[18:13:13] <somenewguy> to make sure I keep calling it w/ the same parameters
[18:13:29] <somenewguy> so what I pastebinned is completly standalone as a file
[18:13:34] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: did you see my example
[18:13:51] <somenewguy> looking at it right now
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[18:18:37] <somenewguy> I keep having to reboot axis... I can't always open the tool table
[18:19:15] <somenewguy> coudl you see if my code works for you after you comment out the bad arc?
[18:19:25] <somenewguy> I think I might be having an issue with axis itself
[18:19:31] <somenewguy> or linuxcnc
[18:19:46] <IchGuckLive> tool teble editor set in ini
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[18:20:40] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: you know that it is in mm G21
[18:21:01] <somenewguy> it works sometimes
[18:21:04] <somenewguy> thats scary to me
[18:21:15] <somenewguy> fortunatly this machine is only for sim, but still
[18:21:36] <IchGuckLive> do you add all the 3 tools it uses
[18:21:44] <IchGuckLive> 3 Diameter
[18:22:21] <IchGuckLive> 1 11 21
[18:23:04] <somenewguy> I added them with made up sizes
[18:23:24] <somenewguy> I will changethem to thsoe numbers, as a quick run made it look like it was still just following the pathand in G40
[18:23:29] <somenewguy> but I could have missed it, Iam in inches
[18:24:10] <JT-Shop> it runs here
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[18:24:52] * JT-Shop is behind schedule today... should have been napping a 1/2 an hour ago
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[18:25:15] <somenewguy> ok axis is NEVER telling me it is in G41 mode....
[18:25:49] <somenewguy> I am gonna go install 2.5.3, I have no idea why I put 2.6dev on thismachine, its not what I am using in the shop
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[18:26:47] <somenewguy> IchGuckLive: on the code you gave me, since it calls out the offset using G41 Dn, I never get a prompt for a tool change
[18:27:04] <somenewguy> is that the intent? would an auto changer take care of that for you or something?
[18:27:35] <somenewguy> if I actually tried torun that, it would do thewhole thing with one tool and different offsets
[18:27:46] <somenewguy> or is that what you meant by roughing and finisheing?
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[18:28:00] <somenewguy> by fudging the diameter you get to finish w/ the same tool path (cool!)
[18:28:14] <IchGuckLive> yes the toolchange is only for messuring
[18:30:36] <somenewguy> ok, since G41 never goes active I am blaming linuxcnc for now and syncing thismachine to the real one. no idea why I didn't do thatthe first time
[18:30:49] <IchGuckLive> somenewguy: what is your entry for the tool editor if you got one even in the axis_sim
[18:30:50] <somenewguy> thank you very much for the input, hopefully I'm not back here in 20 minutes crying again
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[18:32:53] <somenewguy> you mean this line?
[18:32:55] <somenewguy> TOOL_EDITOR = tooledit diam z
[18:33:05] <IchGuckLive> go for gedit
[18:33:16] <tjb1> hello IchGuckLive
[18:33:19] <IchGuckLive> and your tooltable will apear
[18:33:27] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: hi
[18:33:54] <tjb1> How are you sir
[18:34:12] <IchGuckLive> tirerd after a long night O.O
[18:34:22] <IchGuckLive> lots of firerworks
[18:34:35] <somenewguy> ok, is tooledit buggy you are saying?
[18:34:52] <IchGuckLive> dubai has been the best ever with the World Record settings
[18:34:53] <somenewguy> i assume tooledit is the name of the tool that opens that neat little table for editing tool data
[18:35:11] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:35:29] <somenewguy> ok thanks
[18:35:37] <somenewguy> do you know if sublime text is a safe editor?
[18:35:49] <IchGuckLive> use notepad
[18:36:10] <somenewguy> ok
[18:36:14] <eric_unterhausen> is there any difference between nohlt and idle=poll?
[18:36:46] <eric_unterhausen> or should I just be happy with 12uS latency on a servo machine?
[18:37:05] <IchGuckLive> eric_u its a hyperthread parameter
[18:38:53] <pcw_home> 100 usec is probably fine an a servo machine
[18:39:30] <pcw_home> how the heck do you change those boot options on 12.04?
[18:39:54] <eric_unterhausen> well, first you say a few curses about the grub2 developers
[18:40:17] <eric_unterhausen> you can change it in one of the grub configuration files
[18:40:47] <IchGuckLive> idle=nomwait: Disable mwait for CPU C-states
[18:40:52] <pcw_home> Those odd files in grub.d?
[18:41:00] <eric_unterhausen> yes
[18:41:37] <IchGuckLive> idle=halt: Halt is forced to be used for CPU idle.In such case C2/C3 won't be used again
[18:41:39] <pcw_home> so I have 9 files with funny names there...
[18:41:42] <eric_unterhausen> wait, don't think I've messed around in there before
[18:42:40] <IchGuckLive> Format: idle=poll, idle=halt, idle=nomwait ther is no "nohlt"
[18:42:59] <eric_unterhausen> I think you are best off changing it in /etc/default/grub
[18:44:32] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE for today
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[18:45:14] <eric_unterhausen> I'm going to have to run a network wire downstairs
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[18:48:34] <eric_unterhausen> there is nothing in grub.d that indicates it is being used
[18:48:38] <eric_unterhausen> which is really annoying
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[18:51:41] <eric_unterhausen> No manual entry for grub2
[18:51:47] <eric_unterhausen> also for grub
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[18:56:43] <pcw_home> lets see if this grubbing about works...
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[19:02:26] <pcw_home> so how can you know if your bootargs took?
[19:02:59] <birchy> guys, I'm putting a Bash script together to automate the git clone, configure & install. I'm stuck at parsing the output of dpkg-checkbuilddeps. I want to end up with a string I can append to aptitude. Any suggestions?
[19:03:08] <eric_unterhausen> that's a really good question, wonder if it's in dmesg somewhere
[19:03:49] <eric_unterhausen> response to pcw, not dpkg
[19:04:35] <eric_unterhausen> pcw, where did you end up putting the bootargs?
[19:05:06] <pcw_home> in etc/default/grub
[19:05:50] <eric_unterhausen> my google is now in arabic
[19:06:10] <eric_unterhausen> some days I'm glad duckduckgo is my default search engine
[19:07:13] <pcw_home> no evidence in dmesg that anything changed
[19:07:56] <eric_unterhausen> I assume you ran lilo after changing?
[19:08:11] <pcw_home> no
[19:08:21] <eric_unterhausen> how about update-grub?
[19:08:58] <pcw_home> ok did that
[19:09:07] <pcw_home> rebooting...
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[19:15:21] <pcw_home> searching for BOOT_IMAGE= finds the bootargs in dmesg
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[19:18:35] <birchy> Sorry for the noobish question, but can 'aptitude build-depends' be run after debian/configure to auto-install dependencies rather than manually apt-getting them?
[19:18:37] <eric_u_cnc> there is an article on the wiki about some stuff in the /sys filesystem
[19:19:50] <somenewguy> birchy, are you talking about automating configuring linuxcnc for use in an arbitary os?
[19:20:21] <birchy> I'm installing on Wheezy...
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Wheezy_Linux-Rt_Compile_LinuxCNC#Build_LinuxCNC
[19:23:02] <birchy> basically I'm creating a one-hit bash script for my hardware. The idea is to install Wheezy and then run my script. I'm pretty much done but don't quite understand how to automate dependency installation.
[19:23:41] <somenewguy> ah ok
[19:24:18] <somenewguy> I didn't really ahve much to add, but I am interested in the results eventually, and just wanted to point out if you didn't notice the steps on how to setup $PATH appear wrong in one of the walkthrus online
[19:24:52] <somenewguy> I started a thread on the forum when I discovered that issue, but the walkthru hasn't been modified so I don't know if I misdiagnosed the problem or I just haven't spoken to the right person to fix it
[19:25:23] <somenewguy> figured if u were doing somethign like this you would know
[19:26:44] * Loetmichel hat just eaten a doupbe pack of "mama" ramen noodlesoup "duck"... now my mouth and lips are numb... will i _ever_ learn to NOT put in the whole bag of chili power in the instant pack? *sniffle*
[19:26:50] <birchy> Haven't come across any $PATH issues yet, were you installing from git source?
[19:30:33] <eric_u_cnc> birchy, there are multiple choices given with builddeps, I don't know if that would easily be automated
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[19:35:25] <somenewguy> yeah
[19:35:44] <somenewguy> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Build_A_Simulator_Manually
[19:35:50] <somenewguy> those were the instructions I followed
[19:36:01] <somenewguy> and here is the thread where I think I spelled out my isssue/rix
[19:36:24] <somenewguy> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/9-installing-linuxcnc/27088-installing-linuxcnc-sim?start=10
[19:36:37] <somenewguy> you can skip to the last post for what I am talking about
[19:36:45] <eric_unterhausen> the builddeps part is always the most annoying
[19:36:53] <somenewguy> the first half of the thread is me struggling for a while on unrelated stuff
[19:37:04] <eric_unterhausen> although it's head and shoulders above the old days of building all the dependencies yourself
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[19:37:52] <birchy> somenewguy: that looks like a Ubuntu kludge. I'm building on Debian Wheezy.
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[19:38:30] <Jymmm> If you care HF has that 20% off today only
[19:38:31] <somenewguy> i didnt' think it would make a difference? the suggested path variable is just going one layer too deep from whatI can tell
[19:38:31] <birchy> eric: yeah, I'm determined to automate this! gdebi is useful for the debs (rtai kernel, etc)
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[19:38:53] <somenewguy> but I am not good at thisstufff, so maybe it is only an ubuntu issue
[19:38:56] <somenewguy> :shrug:
[19:39:48] <eric_unterhausen> parse the output of builddeps?
[19:40:25] <birchy> eric: that's where I started but then someone said that apt-get build-deps would do it...
[19:40:47] <eric_unterhausen> so try it?
[19:41:00] <birchy> eric: you any good with Bash? Python is my thing
[19:41:17] <eric_unterhausen> no, I can muddle through
[19:41:24] <eric_unterhausen> filter it through a python script :)
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[19:41:59] <birchy> eric, I'm a purist! :)
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[19:42:09] <archivist> why script it as you only do it once or twice
[19:43:22] <eric_unterhausen> I was going to post the link to the xkcd about this
[19:43:28] <eric_unterhausen> it's actually pretty useful
[19:43:30] <birchy> I've done it about 100 times the last 4 or 5 weeks but then again I was using arceye's sources and it's turned out that they don't work on a clean install
[19:44:10] <birchy> Plus I'd rather automate the install for future use.
[19:44:27] <eric_unterhausen> ya, over the entire user base it would be a big time saver
[19:44:33] <eric_unterhausen> http://xkcd.com/1205/
[19:44:46] <eric_unterhausen> there is an xkcd about everything
[19:44:50] <birchy> And I was thinking that not all users are Linux experts. They're machinists...
[19:45:03] <eric_unterhausen> that's what the livecd is for
[19:45:24] <eric_unterhausen> I'm reasonably competent at linux, and it's a pain for me to deal with things when they go wrong
[19:45:44] <eric_unterhausen> if I haven't forgotten what to do, they changed the OS to make it "better"
[19:46:32] <Loetmichel> hrhr, i can relate there
[19:46:44] <birchy> Both the LiveCDs are awful on my PC's. Hardy is to old to support the gfx and 10.04 crashes randomly
[19:47:01] <eric_unterhausen> obviously, it's time for a new livecd, I don't think that's in dispute, it's just that it has to be worthwhile
[19:47:07] <Loetmichel> i used to be really good at linux... the suse 7.3 brand... and now i find nothing
[19:47:17] <eric_unterhausen> and ubuntu kinda moved away from us
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[19:52:03] <eric_unterhausen> but I haven't installed debian recently
[19:52:12] <birchy> rcconf is a handy tool for disabling stuff...if you haven't found it yet
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[19:53:01] <birchy> debian 7 is dead easy now. just like ubuntu was before it became bloaty
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[19:53:52] <eric_unterhausen> wow, rcconf takes me back to the redhat days
[19:53:54] <eric_unterhausen> thanks
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[19:54:46] <eric_unterhausen> I did d/l debian, maybe I'll try it. I have all my cnc systems on compact flash so I can just swap them at will
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[19:57:08] <somenewguy> why wont cutter comp work for me!
[19:57:10] <somenewguy> arrrgh
[19:57:13] <birchy> I tried Debian 6 a few years ago but wasn't a big fan, so reverted to LMDE. Having now tried Debian 7, I doubt I'll go back
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[19:58:49] <eric_unterhausen> I always wondered why the debian installer had to offer so many choices
[19:58:59] <eric_unterhausen> but if they fixted it that's good
[19:59:25] <ries> birchy: isn't mint not just Debian unstable?
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[20:02:06] <birchy> Yeah, LMDE is Debian testing. The main Mint is Ubuntu based
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[20:04:04] <birchy> eric: wheezy has a really simplified install now. you just select language, keyboard and from there, there's half a dozen yes/no questions
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[20:54:54] <somenewguy> question about parameter scope
[20:55:06] <somenewguy> if i have a subroutine with #<rad> defined in it
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[20:55:31] <somenewguy> and have a subroutine within it, if I modify #<rad> is it the same variable?
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[20:55:42] <somenewguy> or am I creating a new #<rad> and playing with it
[20:56:35] <somenewguy> the sub routine is a while loop, not called, I don't think that makes a difference but I have been wrong before
[20:59:42] <micges> you are creating new #<rad>
[21:00:00] <micges> #<_rad> will be global
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[21:02:13] <somenewguy> dang it, how was this code even working before....
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[21:06:59] <somenewguy> hmm, this doesnt seem right. if a if/while sub does not inherit the params of the code it is sitting in, i should be gettinghundresds of "param not defined" errors
[21:07:07] <somenewguy> but im not
[21:09:43] <micges> only sub/endsub doesn't inherit
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[21:17:34] <somenewguy> ohhh ok, so mine are all inheriting as i thought
[21:17:59] <somenewguy> thanks for the clarification
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[22:10:58] <Deejay> good night
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[22:11:59] <Deejay> bye
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[22:37:19] <CaptHindsight> how does one handle setting the delay period between motion (G0, G1, etc) and M64 or M65 output controls?
[22:46:17] <andypugh> One of them doesn't take effect until the next motion command.
[22:46:24] <andypugh> (I can't recall which)
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[22:51:24] <Tom_itx> dwell?
[22:51:48] <Tom_itx> no that probably isn't it
[23:00:11] <CaptHindsight> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/m-code.html#sec:M62-M65 M62 and M63 are synced with motion
[23:00:41] <CaptHindsight> "The actual change of the specified outputs will happen at the beginning of the next motion command. If there is no subsequent motion command, the queued output changes won’t happen. It’s best to always program a motion G code (G0, G1, etc) right after the M62/63."
[23:01:31] <CaptHindsight> what if you don't want motion but say an I/O to flip states 0.5 seconds after a motion has ended and 2.3 seconds before the next motion
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[23:04:15] <CaptHindsight> dwell G4 with G1 of Zero?
[23:05:00] <CaptHindsight> sorry, M62 with a G1 of zero
[23:06:37] <toastydeath> g1 x000 y000 z000; g4 p.5; m63 p0; g4 p2.3; m64 p0
[23:06:40] <toastydeath> something like that?
[23:07:22] <CaptHindsight> yeah, but I was wondering if there was some shorter way of doing it
[23:07:32] <toastydeath> oops, m64 and m65
[23:08:19] <CaptHindsight> if you want to sync motion with I/O but able to set the intervals between the I/O change and the motion change
[23:10:24] <CaptHindsight> this crosses over into COMEDI
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[23:15:01] <pcw_home> position breakpoints and a comp?
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[23:15:56] <pcw_home> or reverse, do you want I/O to control motion?
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[23:16:57] <i_tom> :)
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[23:32:52] <i_tom> Hey guys :) anyone have an experience with BeagleBone Black ?
[23:34:00] <jdh> I have one.
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