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[00:19:45] <MacGalempsy> evening
[00:20:44] <Tom_itx> yes it is
[00:21:27] <MacGalempsy> hi Tom_itx. anything exciting happening?
[00:21:41] <Tom_itx> just a bit of wiring
[00:22:51] <MacGalempsy> on?
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[00:23:46] <Tom_itx> the mill
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[00:25:12] <MacGalempsy> pic of setup?
[00:26:10] <Tom_itx> just my sherline
[00:26:34] <MacGalempsy> nice. what kind of wiring?
[00:26:45] <MacGalempsy> .... are you working on?
[00:27:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[00:27:15] <Tom_itx> there's the new enclosure i'm working on for it
[00:27:22] <Tom_itx> tesing some boards
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[00:32:51] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Just be aware that most IEC connectors are not rated over 5A.
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[00:35:45] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And I do understand the reasoning for your placement of the power switch, but it's terminals are exposed at the edge of the door which may not be a good thing if anything was to fall in without you realizing it.
[00:36:53] <Tom_itx> yeah i plan to cover that
[00:38:27] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If you can find some, 2-3" shrink tubing would work
[00:38:33] <Jymmm> diameter
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[00:40:16] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: It's a shame that you can't show off the shiny gecko drives too
[00:40:17] <Tom_itx> PCW, 5v vfield results in undervoltage error on sserial on the 7I71 but not on the 7I84
[00:40:39] <Tom_itx> would a firmware update do anything for that?
[00:41:03] <Tom_itx> the 7i43 is running ver 41 iirc
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[00:42:47] <PCW> the 7I43 firmware is not important the 7I71 firmware doesnt support 5V (its a little silly on a 48 output relay driver)
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[00:44:05] <Tom_itx> probably so
[00:44:26] <PCW> I suppose its possible but a TTL device like the 7I69 might make more sense for a 48 x5V interface
[00:44:27] <Tom_itx> the docs indicate a field voltage from 5-28v
[00:45:11] <PCW> it may have been intended I will check
[00:45:41] <PCW> it may also be bad or funny since its a proto
[00:45:54] <Tom_itx> yeah i'm not that worried about it
[00:46:03] <PCW> though it seemed to work as AFAICT
[00:46:05] <Tom_itx> i just wanted 5v on the 7i84 for sure
[00:46:24] <Tom_itx> and that one is ok
[00:46:46] <PCW> the 7I84 and 7i76 and 7i77 have the 5V change
[00:46:54] <Tom_itx> where do i see the encoder list? in halcmd show pin?
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[00:47:48] <PCW> I need to check if the per input threshold has been implemented (someone on the forum wanted 24V Vfield but 5V inputs on some pins)
[00:48:28] <PCW> yes or in axis "show hal configuration"
[00:48:35] <Tom_itx> with split vfield on the 7i84 that's quite possible
[00:48:46] <Tom_itx> run one at 5 and the other at 24
[00:49:10] <NickParker> wooh i got ssh working it looks like
[00:49:26] <NickParker> now to just reboot with the 6i25 in, and fix this silliness
[00:49:27] <PCW> Yeah the forum guy has a 7I77 and it does not support split VFIELD
[00:51:40] <Tom_itx> single encoder on the 7i84?
[00:52:09] <Tom_itx> i see enc0 enc1
[00:52:28] <Tom_itx> and 4 analog just above that
[00:53:03] <NickParker> awww hell. my ssh doesn't work with the 6i25 in
[00:53:11] <Tom_itx> unexpected realtime delay
[00:53:18] <Tom_itx> just idling
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[00:57:20] <PCW> Tom_itx: may be more I/O than you can do practically with a 7I43
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[00:58:26] <PCW> although if you ran out of time, i would expect a sserial error (last command not complete or some such)
[00:58:37] <PCW> NickParker: do you have a 5I25 or 6I25?
[00:58:43] <NickParker> 6i25
[00:59:14] <PCW> a 5i25 is not recoverable in that state (bogus bit file) without JTAG
[00:59:44] <NickParker> is a 6i25?
[00:59:46] <PCW> a 6I25 is recoverable without JTAG
[01:00:06] <NickParker> how do I recover it?
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[01:03:05] <Tom_itx> PCW that was with the 7i84 only
[01:03:25] <Tom_itx> only happened once
[01:03:59] <PCW> actually its probably unrelated to sserial
[01:04:21] <NickParker> mmm I believe my bogus bitfile had sserial still in the ModuleID array
[01:06:00] <PCW> nothing you do with the pin file can break the bitfile to the extent that the PCI bus is broken
[01:06:02] <PCW> there is some likely some global thing wrong to make such a broken bitfile
[01:06:52] <NickParker> That's good to hear, I don't want to have to worry about jamming it again while working on the pin file.
[01:07:00] <PCW> like wrong or no ucf file association.
[01:07:11] <PCW> (check the pad report)
[01:07:49] <Tom_itx> i had that happen once when i tried copying a bitfile i'd done with an external editor that already had an entry in the hostmot file
[01:08:15] <PCW> if the ucf file association is wrong the tools will cheerful assign a random pinout
[01:08:31] <PCW> without warning
[01:08:32] <Tom_itx> to save time, i wound up reinstalling the zip and copying the modified bit file _BEFORE_ i made the file entry
[01:09:37] <PCW> the chances that a random pinout will do anything but crash the system are small
[01:10:02] <NickParker> so how do i undo it?
[01:11:06] <PCW> so if you have a bad bitfile you need to prevent it loading at power up
[01:11:08] <PCW> There is no graceful way to do this but short out the EEPROM pins at power up (6 and 7 are suggested)
[01:11:54] <PCW> 7 is 3.3V and 6 is clock (but has a series resistor so you are not shoring the actual FPGA pin)
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[01:12:33] <PCW> do not accidentally short to the nearby bypass
[01:13:17] <PCW> then you can use mesaflash in the recovery mode to re-flash the 6I25 with a working config
[01:14:19] <PCW> or get a JTAG programmer widget (a few bucks for a parallel port model)
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[01:15:19] <NickParker> That sounds much safer, and I wouldn't be surprised if my dad has a JTAG programmer around somewhere, I think I'll go that route.
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[01:18:07] <Tom_itx> how do i figure out an IO to PIN map for the 84? the pdf mentions 16..19 are for the encoders, are they paired as 16-18 and 17-19 for the quadrature MPG?
[01:18:29] <NickParker> alright we don't own one. Can you recommend a workable (cheap) one online PCW?
[01:19:26] <PCW> 16 ia A0 17 ia B0 18 is A1 19 is B1
[01:19:41] <Tom_itx> thanks
[01:22:31] <PCW> NOt sure how good they are there are a lot on Ebay from 8.49 up
[01:22:41] <NickParker> Wait PCW was the EEPROM thing you were talking about just the "BRIDGE EEPROM ENABLE" section of the 6i25 manual?
[01:23:05] <NickParker> I'm happy to try that. You said it was an ugly route so I thought you meant shorting 2 pins on some tiny chip, not moving a jumper.
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[01:23:34] <PCW> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LPT-JTAG-XILINX-Buffered-Parallel-Programmer-Cable-for-iMPACT-FPGA-CPLD-/271075614688?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
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[01:25:11] <NickParker> moving W5 did not fix my issue
[01:25:22] <PCW> Yes thats the bridge chip EEPROM jumper but you need to disable the FPGA EEPROM which is different (the pins are not too tiny = .050 pitch)
[01:26:02] <PCW> I think the few times I've had to do this I used a pencil
[01:27:27] <NickParker> Alright let's try it. Where are these pins?
[01:28:13] <PCW> U2 pins 6 and 7
[01:29:00] <PCW> U2 is a M25P80 8 pin SO package on the top right side of the 6I25
[01:31:27] <NickParker> ok found U2. So I want a pencil line between the top right 2 pins on it. I assume down is the PCI slot and up is the 26 pin header?
[01:32:13] <PCW> top pins are 5,6_pencil_ 7,8
[01:32:35] <NickParker> ok. Yeah I just found a picture of the pins for this chip, matches what you say.
[01:33:10] <PCW> not a pencil line the pencil tip between the pins as you power up
[01:34:11] <PCW> if you succeed you should get at least one red LED staying on
[01:34:36] <Tom_itx> PCW if the encoder is open collector will i need pullups on those inputs?
[01:34:45] <Tom_itx> i did when testing on my avr
[01:34:52] <PCW> Yes
[01:34:55] <Tom_itx> ok
[01:35:12] <PCW> they have 22K pulldowns
[01:35:26] <PCW> so you need stiffer pullups
[01:35:30] <Tom_itx> alright
[01:35:47] <PCW> 2.5V threshold
[01:36:27] <NickParker> PCW: oh that makes it trickier. Once it's done booting I can move the pencil though I hope?
[01:36:56] <PCW> Yes only for the second or so that the system powers up
[01:37:29] <PCW> a tiny screwdriver will do as well if you are careful
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[01:38:52] <NickParker> alright it worked
[01:39:17] <Tecan> dont forget the final step
[01:39:25] <PCW> Then have to figure out the recover option of mesaflash
[01:40:02] <Tecan> i always forget the last step
[01:40:14] <PCW> the final step is dont do whatever it is you did before
[01:40:28] <Tecan> profit
[01:40:57] <PCW> yeah that would be different :-)
[01:41:47] <NickParker> should mesaflash --scanpci be able to see it?
[01:41:50] <NickParker> it can't.
[01:42:06] <PCW> no
[01:43:00] <PCW> thats why you need the recover mode
[01:44:15] <NickParker> ok i did mesaflash --device 6i25 --recover (known good bitfile) and it turned off the red lights
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[01:44:29] <NickParker> still can't see it though. should i try restarting?
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[01:45:00] <PCW> yes it only loads the bitfile at power up
[01:45:55] <PCW> bbl
[01:47:04] <PCW> well it will reload after recover but the BAR register are not initialized to its invisible
[01:47:18] <PCW> really bbl
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[01:53:52] <NickParker> ok so the restart didn't change behavior, i've booted with the pencil again
[01:54:47] <NickParker> when i do sudo ./mesaflash --device 6i25 --recover fallback.bit i get "Board Name:6i25 Access via XIO2001 bridge"
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[02:22:03] <NickParker> ok it can see a tiny bit, because sudo ./mesaflash --recover fallback.bit --device 6i25 gets the message above but sudo ./mesaflash --recover fallback.bit --device 5i25 gets device not found
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[02:54:43] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: BTW, the new controller looks nice. Just need s few hundred blinky lights and you can call it the Robototron 4000 =)
[02:56:54] <Jymmm> ~~~ Sheet Metal Gauge Size Chart
http://www.custompartnet.com/sheet-metal-gauge
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[03:05:26] <pcw_home> ./mesaflash --recover fallback.bit --device 5i25 gets device not found
[03:05:28] <pcw_home> is not expected to work since only 6I25s have a recovery option
[03:08:00] <pcw_home> Did the recover write work? (prints file header and indicates written blocks)
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[03:38:23] <NickParker> oh wait should i be doing --recover --write or just --recover (filename)?
[03:39:05] <NickParker> ./mesaflash --recover fallback.bit --device 6i25 got "Board Name:6i25, Access via XIO2001 bridge" and nothing else bac
[03:39:11] <NickParker> it turned off the red lights though
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[03:41:00] <NickParker> however, behavior stays the same
[03:41:07] <NickParker> on reboot i get no video
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[03:43:18] <NickParker> brb pcw_home
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[03:59:59] <NickParker> back
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[04:09:53] <pcw_home> I dont think it wrote, It probably needs --recover --write
[04:10:46] <Tom_itx> encoder worked btw. thanks for all the help pcw_home
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[04:21:15] <NickParker> --recover --write worked.
[04:21:27] <NickParker> rebooted, fallback.bit verifies and --scanpci recognizes the card as 5i25
[04:30:14] <pcw_home> yeah --recover just enables the alternate flash write method you still need --write
[04:30:36] <pcw_home> I dont use that often enough to remember
[04:31:38] <pcw_home> Tom_itx: the MPG encoder is 1x by default (for 100 count detented encoders)
[04:32:16] <Tom_itx> i just grabbed an encoder i had in a box to test with
[04:32:27] <Tom_itx> 500 count but it worked fine
[04:32:51] <pcw_home> Pretty sure you can set 4X modes (and many others) but the modes are undocumented
[04:33:02] <Tom_itx> the sserial probably isn't fast enough for much of an encoder is it?
[04:33:27] <Tom_itx> where would i look for that?
[04:33:32] <pcw_home> depends on the count size
[04:33:53] <Tom_itx> i've got a few of these 500 count ones i may put to use one day
[04:34:48] <pcw_home> I think the 7I84 encoders are limited to about 30-40 KHz by the RC inputs and 50 KHz sampling rate
[04:35:50] <pcw_home> really just intended for MPG use
[04:36:00] <Tom_itx> i just watched it in hal config and it counted up and down so the quadrature is working
[04:36:02] <Tom_itx> yeah i know
[04:36:17] <Tom_itx> i planned to move most of my pendant stuff over to it
[04:36:32] <Tom_itx> nothing on it would strain it
[04:37:06] <pcw_home> you have to spin the dial pretty fast to get 30KHz on a 500 line encoder
[04:37:34] <pcw_home> what that 900 RPM?
[04:37:41] <Tom_itx> i thought about putting one on the spindle which goes to about 3500rpm
[04:37:56] <Tom_itx> but that would require one off the 7i43
[04:38:02] <pcw_home> Yep
[04:38:23] <Tom_itx> the 84 looks like a great all around card
[04:38:55] <Tom_itx> would i be safe moving limits to it?
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[04:39:20] <pcw_home> Were really happy we chose to do our digital input with an A-D :-)
[04:39:42] <pcw_home> Yes, its intended for limits
[04:39:44] <Tom_itx> i can see how that would be very handy
[04:40:30] <pcw_home> for example the normal input threshold is 1/2 VField
[04:40:33] <Tom_itx> probably not fast enough for pwm or stepgen
[04:41:20] <pcw_home> The outputs arent (but we have run tiny unipolar step motor from one for fun)
[04:41:28] <Tom_itx> yeah
[04:41:40] <Tom_itx> it might run a reprap but i don't plan to do one of those
[04:42:21] <Tom_itx> what's that little 6-8pin sot chip that bridges the cat5 input?
[04:42:46] <Tom_itx> i held it up to the light and saw the gnd plane surrounding it all but that chip
[04:42:53] <pcw_home> a ADUM isolator
[04:42:59] <Tom_itx> that must be the bridge across it
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[04:43:58] <pcw_home> the 7I71 and 7I84 I/O is galvanically isolated from the serial link
[04:44:10] <Tom_itx> i read that
[04:44:54] <pcw_home> so thats a dual isolator (TX and RX)
[04:45:27] <pcw_home> good to 10 MBaud
[04:45:52] <pcw_home> (though normal sserial is 2.5 MB)
[04:46:10] <Tom_itx> should handle anything we could throw at it
[04:46:39] <pcw_home> you can set the remote baud rate to 10MB and they will work (but SSLBP needs to be set to 10 as well)
[04:46:53] <Tom_itx> firmware update?
[04:47:03] <Tom_itx> i don't really see a need for that
[04:47:26] <pcw_home> eventually we will add baud rate search to SSLBP 2.5,10,115200
[04:48:04] <Tom_itx> i figured sserial is still a work in progress
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[04:50:29] <pcw_home> Were pretty happy with most of it now but there are a number of improvement we would like
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[04:52:11] <pcw_home> (one is splitting the RX and TX parts of the transactions and auto starting RX transactions based on the DPLL)
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[06:06:45] <RyanS> I had kind of a tailstock camlock crappy design..... :( cam section starting to bend after second use
[06:07:59] <RyanS> There is some website called "nothing too strong ever broke" I usually abide by that
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[06:41:37] <toastyde2th> RyanS, why would you use a camlock for a tailstock
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[07:04:16] <RyanS> It seems to be a common and easier method instead of a shiftinng spanner/nut
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[07:06:34] <toastyde2th> common where
[07:06:51] <toastyde2th> ain't no production lathe I know of that uses a camlock for the actual tailstock bar
[07:07:10] <toastyde2th> there's lots of camlocks on tailstock carriages and split nut locks, though
[07:07:40] <RyanS> Sorry I was referring to the carriage itself
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[07:13:21] <RyanS> I'm about to open up my three-phase motor.. It has no badge, but is it easy to identify 2, 4, 6 pole?
[07:17:07] <toastyde2th> no idea
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[07:49:32] <Deejay> moin
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[08:03:24] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:17:48] <archivist> RyanS, number of slots relates to poles
[08:18:28] <archivist> and the method of pole interconnection, see a motor book
[08:19:20] <archivist> but the rewire to delta is not too hard as there is only one star connection
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[08:32:09] <Jymmm> archivist: Do you have any suggestions on how to setup resist/electro-etching to create a few of these "tiles" from a larger sheet of material ?
http://i40.tinypic.com/160aolf.jpg
[08:32:56] <Jymmm> archivist: The "tiles" might just drop out of the larger sheet before they've had a chance to etch out the honeycomb pattern.
[08:34:04] <Jymmm> archivist: The only thing I can think of is an inside-out process, but seems a tad process intensive.
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[08:36:54] <archivist> leave a joining tag
[08:37:14] <Jymmm> oooohhhhh good idea!!!!! THANK YOU =)
[08:38:16] <Jymmm> Know of any good press-type tool to shearing the tab(s)?
[08:38:33] <archivist> scissors
[08:39:09] <Jymmm> My luck, I'd leave a razor sharp edge =)
[08:39:47] <Jymmm> I don't mind creating a fixture to have clean cuts
[08:39:53] <archivist> clean up any edges left
[08:40:34] <archivist> all cutting methods leave sharp edges
[08:40:58] <Jymmm> I was thinking of something like this, but squared, not round dies
http://www.grizzly.com/products/H7862
[08:41:09] <archivist> there are production methods of edge fixing
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[08:42:51] <archivist> barrel polish with the correct abrasive, you get a consistent finish and deburred
[08:43:55] <archivist> that punch is for round holes, leaves an edge around the hole
[08:43:58] <Jymmm> This is 10mil so it has a higher razor potential which I'm hoping the electroetching will resolve, less the tabs
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[08:45:11] <Jymmm> I'm just wondering how something like this has to burrs (tumbled?)
http://media.jetpress.com/ovxyuhpl10/Single-Cable-Pipe-Clip-Edge-Fixing-Standard.jpg?width=580&height=580
[08:45:22] <Jymmm> s/to/no/
[08:46:25] <archivist> likely that was punched out to leave burs inside, also tumbled=barrel polish
[08:46:43] <Jymmm> ah
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[08:47:29] <archivist> as it has black finish that has been processed after any polish
[08:48:13] <Jymmm> It was just a burr-free "punch" image I found for an example is all.
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[11:26:17] <RyanS> http://imagebin.org/280483
[11:31:02] <RyanS> http://imagebin.org/280485
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[11:40:41] <archivist> do you still have that link I gave yesterday showing a motor wiring being taken apart
[11:44:05] <archivist> http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=7773.0
[11:46:13] <archivist> you have to undo the string restraining the wire and winding, find the star joint, you now have 6 ends
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[11:47:42] <archivist> disconnect the star, and now connect as delta, re tie check for shorts and leaks to frame
[11:49:32] <archivist> reassemble, final check, three windings measure the same and still no leaks to frame, connect to a vfd and bring up slowly
[11:51:06] <archivist> be very careful you dont foul the through bolts when you tie the wires
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[11:52:49] <TekniQue> don't they make inverter VFDs nowadays that can run a 400V motor from 230V single phase?
[11:53:08] <archivist> yes, cost about twice as much
[11:53:52] <archivist> there being a double inversion internally
[11:54:05] <TekniQue> aye
[11:54:41] <TekniQue> that being said, 3x63 amps is standard issue nowadays here
[11:54:54] <TekniQue> even in residential housing
[11:56:49] <archivist> rare to get 3 phase to the house I think
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[13:59:15] <TekniQue> http://i.imgur.com/4QaTs51.jpg
[13:59:20] <TekniQue> oops, wrong window
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[14:15:13] <skunkworks> ouch - curbed
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[14:46:33] <pcw_home> skunkworks: 7I76E running under linuxcnc/PreemtRT for about a day now, no major bugs
[14:49:15] <skunkworks> awesome! I have been testing the tp that rob has been working on - so I have not gotten back to trying the new stuff for the 7i80
[14:49:29] <skunkworks> what kind of servo thread time are you getting?
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[14:49:54] <pcw_home> I am running a standard1 KHz
[14:50:29] <skunkworks> I meant - how long are the functions taking
[14:50:33] <pcw_home> average time use for comms is about 100 usec
[14:50:58] <skunkworks> oh - nice. (I was seeing around 600 peak here with rtnet)
[14:51:19] <pcw_home> sometimes the RX time is much longer (on this machine video interferes)
[14:51:20] <skunkworks> so 2khz might be possible?
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[14:52:46] <pcw_home> On this machine under Preemt RT Video interferes with RX so 1 KHz may be max
[14:52:47] <pcw_home> But I dont think all the possible tweaks have been done
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[14:53:45] <pcw_home> (setting Ethernet RX interrupt priority high is one thing suggested by OSADL)
[14:54:38] <skunkworks> you must have figured out the incatation (mac address and such?)
[14:55:46] <pcw_home> Yes:
[14:55:48] <pcw_home> [HOSTMOT2]
[14:55:49] <pcw_home> DRIVER=hm2_eth board_ip="192.168.1.121" board_mac="00:60:1B:10:40:01"
[14:55:51] <pcw_home> BOARD=7i76e
[14:55:52] <pcw_home> CONFIG="num_encoders=1 num_stepgens=5 sserial_port_0=20xxxxxx"
[14:56:21] <pcw_home> But thats it, no other setup magic
[14:57:15] <skunkworks> nice
[14:57:20] <pcw_home> I probably should set the ip address so that it does not overlap my wireless range
[14:58:00] <skunkworks> yah - the ip was also part of our wired network - but didn't seem to cause any problems with rtnet
[14:58:13] <skunkworks> (two separate nics)
[14:58:44] <pcw_home> This is the MB Ethernet port on this old shuttle MB
[14:59:15] <pcw_home> dont even know what it is (thats the advantage of Preemt_RT)
[14:59:23] <skunkworks> awesome. that should really help if 'most' hardware should run now
[14:59:37] <skunkworks> right
[15:00:18] <skunkworks> have you had good luck with shuttles? I think every one we have had now has failed.
[15:00:36] <skunkworks> (they came with some equipment we got)
[15:00:40] <pcw_home> No, they are miserable
[15:00:46] <skunkworks> ok - good. :)
[15:00:47] <FinboySlick> Ditto.
[15:01:08] <FinboySlick> Every shuttle mobo I've come across died.
[15:01:46] <pcw_home> I have this one as its a Frankenstein of the last working remains of a bunch we had at work that all died
[15:02:01] <skunkworks> heh - ok. Atleast it isn't just us.
[15:02:28] <pcw_home> all PS issues (either the PS proper or the switching reg on the MB)
[15:02:48] <skunkworks> yes - we have had a bunch of power supplies with blown caps
[15:02:55] <FinboySlick> part of the capacitor-gate scandal? It was around that time, no?
[15:03:04] <pcw_home> maybe so
[15:04:07] <FinboySlick> Mention of video interfering with RT though... Since Axis is mostly xorg-based, wouldn't there be a good case to be made for easy setup with remote X display and no actual video drivers on the EMC machine?
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[15:06:12] <FinboySlick> It was a long time ago, but even then opengl through remote display worked fine.
[15:06:37] <FinboySlick> I failed miserably trying to get that to work with LinuxCNC when I was doing my initial setup though.
[15:06:52] <pcw_home> Sure, for the highest performance you want the fewest possible interfering tasks
[15:06:54] <pcw_home> (heck for the highest performance you want a machine that only runs HAL and has no
[15:06:55] <pcw_home> interrupts: all Ethernet coms are synchronous polled at the thread rate
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[15:07:34] <skunkworks> that is close to what the bbb does I think
[15:07:56] <pcw_home> Well no the BBB is a standard linux mess
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[15:08:38] <skunkworks> well - I mean most are running remote because it is a bit hard on it running axis
[15:09:01] <skunkworks> (but I have only been paying half attention...
[15:09:04] <skunkworks> )
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[15:10:51] <pcw_home> I do think its a good general idea to spilt the user interface from the real time portion
[15:10:52] <pcw_home> so each hardware platform can be optimized for their specific task
[15:10:55] <FinboySlick> Heck, you could even netboot and disable all the drive controller hardware.
[15:11:15] <pcw_home> Yeah
[15:12:53] <pcw_home> I saw some old CNC system mentioned on cnczone that did this with 2 PCs, one for user interface and the other as a DSP
[15:13:07] <pcw_home> 386 vintage
[15:13:12] <FinboySlick> I'm still on Ubuntu 8 based livecd install... Can modern kernels (3.x) be used relatively easily now?
[15:13:50] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: That's what I wanted to do with my ALIX board, but I think it just sucks for RT.
[15:13:58] <pcw_home> Yes its much easier now thanks to Mhaberler and friends
[15:14:35] <FinboySlick> I might give a try at setting up a buildroot package for it.
[15:14:53] <FinboySlick> (buildroot the linux 'distro', not the general build system)
[15:15:11] <pcw_home> well if it suck for RT its really likely theres some process that blocks interrupts and its likely some driver
[15:15:32] <skunkworks> FinboySlick, good starting point
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
[15:15:35] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: It's video related from what I read.
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[15:15:51] <FinboySlick> I couldn't even get to a point where I could test the RT kernel.
[15:15:57] <FinboySlick> So I don't know for sure.
[15:16:18] <FinboySlick> I'll give it another shot with a newer kernel.
[15:16:24] <skunkworks> FinboySlick, I think I meant...
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewRTInstall
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[15:18:45] <FinboySlick> http://buildroot.net/ apparently has built-in xenomai support.
[15:18:48] <pcw_home> Now if sound only worked on the Preempt RT- kernel I would leave it running my desktop
[15:19:16] <skunkworks> latency spikes?
[15:19:41] <pcw_home> No it just doesnt work
[15:19:45] <skunkworks> oh
[15:19:48] <skunkworks> huh
[15:21:35] <mrsun_> gah how to make a touch off plate that wont pass current throught the spindle bearings .. and its hard to get to the tool to clip a contact on that also :/
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[15:22:32] <mrsun_> and that is big enough to now having to have to see exactly where the tool is while i touch off :P
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[15:22:59] <FinboySlick> mrsun_: Doing the home-made touch probe thing might work better, no? Just put it upside-down with a flat 'probe'.
[15:23:31] <pcw_home> no sound _and_ the fact that is crashes about once a day...
[15:24:02] <mrsun_> FinboySlick, i want the touch of to be automatic as my brushes gives a huge preasure down on the table and everything i stuck under i cant realy feel good when the tool touches it =)
[15:24:27] <mrsun_> with my current router i guess i could just drill a holw in the back end and use a contact directly on the spindle shaft :P
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[15:34:45] <MacGalempsy> mornin
[15:38:45] <archivist> FinboySlick, you had wandered off when I saw your message
[15:41:16] <JT-Shop> mrsun_: the best touch off tool is a dowel
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[15:47:47] <FinboySlick> archivist: It wasn't all that important. I just wanted an opinion on the best tools to get my linear rails flat and perpendicular (on the machining/grinding side). I think they're recessed so I doubt I could even use a surface grinder.
[15:49:53] <archivist> FinboySlick, or adjust the column mount where it fits the base
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[15:50:49] <FinboySlick> http://www.syilamerica.com/product_docs/MachineDocs/X5/x5.pdf pages 34-36
[15:51:13] <FinboySlick> archivist: Just adjusting the mating between column and base isn't enough.
[15:51:27] <FinboySlick> The column seems warped/twisted.
[15:51:39] <FinboySlick> (or the rails aren't even).
[15:53:27] <archivist> you could try shims under the rails to see where it is wrong
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[15:54:27] <archivist> basic squareness is probably the base to column for most of the error
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[15:55:40] <FinboySlick> What I'm thinking on doing is re-facing the surface on the base where the Y rails are fastened as well as the surface where the column mounts on the same setup. That would at least make those decently parallel.
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[15:56:17] <archivist> before cutting/grinding measure
[15:56:36] <FinboySlick> archivist: Good idea ;)
[15:56:52] <FinboySlick> I also need a machine that I can trust to do this.
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[15:57:09] <FinboySlick> Obviously, the result would be as reliable as the machine that cut it.
[15:57:17] <archivist> you can do a hell of a lot with the right level...and files
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[15:57:58] <archivist> and a few dtis and other assorted measuring toys
[15:58:04] <FinboySlick> archivist: The rail mounts are recessed though. It'd be a lot simpler if I could just lap the whole thing.
[15:58:56] <archivist> I would lift off the table place level on carriages and check
[15:59:15] <archivist> some parallels are needed too
[16:00:00] <archivist> do you have a precision level yet
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[16:02:28] <FinboySlick> No.
[16:03:15] <archivist> if the problems are just sloppy assembly, all you need do is get the measuring toys and assemble correctly
[16:04:14] <archivist> here the the clearance around the screws holding the rails to column could be giving you a squareness problem
[16:05:16] <FinboySlick> I seem to be getting most of my errors (on the Y axis) at the ends, so I think there's a banana effect here.
[16:06:12] <archivist> oops you just missed a bible
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Machine-Tool-Reconditioning-by-Edward-F-Connelly-1955-/300892448874
[16:07:32] <FinboySlick> archivist: a good place do do all this in is likely to be the hardest to find for me.
[16:08:05] <archivist> the rails are a bit bent because of the way they are hardened, they rely on the surface to hold them straight
[16:08:43] <FinboySlick> That's a good bit of information to have.
[16:10:09] <archivist> I got that from one of the machine tool shows
[16:10:27] <archivist> seems that book is available
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Machine+tool+reconditioning+applications+hand+scraping
[16:11:03] <archivist> although it predates rails, it does have the measuring
[16:11:38] <archivist> you need a box square really
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[16:12:48] <FinboySlick> Hehehe, google image isn't helpful on finding what one of those looks like ;)
[16:13:29] <archivist> box level I mean
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[16:15:29] <archivist> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/53674-anyone-used-these-levels
[16:15:51] <archivist> apart from the postage I do have a spare
[16:15:59] <FinboySlick> Sheesh, that's a lot cheaper than I thought.
[16:17:34] <archivist> scruffy one 171170058355
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[16:18:26] <archivist> looks like it has been polished on a buff
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[16:20:46] <FinboySlick> http://www.shars.com/products/view/2476/6quot_x_112quot_x_6quot_Precision_Frame_Spirit_Levels (assuming it lives up to its specs) should give me a pretty good idea of where the problem is at least.
[16:20:52] <archivist> never cheap this seller 330804628067
[16:21:21] <FinboySlick> are these ebay item numbers?
[16:21:22] <archivist> that is cheap for that spec
[16:21:26] <archivist> yes
[16:22:36] <archivist> thing about this type of level is you can check and get the column right after you have got the table done
[16:22:40] <Jymmm> You don't need an actual level, just a straight edge?
[16:22:52] <archivist> er no Jymmm
[16:23:13] <archivist> this is first principles getting it right
[16:23:50] <FinboySlick> archivist: My concern with the level approach is also that they're almost as long as my entire travel for the rails. In fact, on y, they're longer.
[16:23:57] <Jymmm> So a level IS needed? Is so, can't one use a clear hose and colored water?
[16:24:09] <Jymmm> If so*
[16:24:13] <FinboySlick> So I also need a good way of making sure the rails are flat before I can consider the level accurate.
[16:25:40] <archivist> you put parallels in place of table on carriages at the spacing they are in use and try between carriages and between rails, all over
[16:26:13] <FinboySlick> archivist: Oooh, smart!
[16:26:16] <FinboySlick> Hehe.
[16:26:34] <archivist> you can just put the level on the table and see if it remains stable all over before you do anything
[16:26:35] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'm glad I nagged you about this again now ;)
[16:27:07] <archivist> also move the level about on the table see if it is flat
[16:27:21] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yeah. My chief concern for the time being is actually finding a place where I can do that kind of work.
[16:27:38] <FinboySlick> My floors aren't sturdy enough.
[16:27:41] <archivist> note all this is impossible if your machine is on a wooden floor and you are heavy
[16:28:01] <FinboySlick> It's half-impossible then. It's on a wooden floor, but I'm pretty light.
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[16:28:27] <archivist> you will get a shock just how still you need to be
[16:28:36] <FinboySlick> Regardless, I'd do this on a concrete, ground floor.
[16:29:03] <FinboySlick> archivist: These floors move from just me breathing.
[16:29:13] <FinboySlick> It's a terrible place for a machine to be to begin with.
[16:29:27] <archivist> you can use a clinometer too
[16:29:27] <FinboySlick> I'm still gathering money to build a proper place.
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[16:29:47] <FinboySlick> All this while I was thinking of a large granite surface and a dti.
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[16:30:17] <archivist> I saw a slab of granite on a dead cmm over here the other week
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[16:39:41] <FinboySlick> cmm?
[16:40:36] <archivist> coodinate measuring machine
[16:40:53] <FinboySlick> Hehe, it feel on it?
[16:41:40] <archivist> 261318218650
[16:42:14] <FinboySlick> Wow... Now there's a slab of granite.
[16:42:39] <archivist> too big for me to get home
[16:43:05] <FinboySlick> I guess that thing would tell me where my machine flaws are.
[16:43:39] <archivist> I thought about bidding and fetching all the motors and control and leaving the seller with a slab problem
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[16:46:55] <FinboySlick> It's a beautiful machine... Do they know what's wrong with it?
[16:46:56] <JT-Shop> like I'll be back later for the slab?
[16:47:28] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Have them air-mail it ;)
[16:53:49] <archivist> I think that slab weighs more than the estate car
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[18:00:53] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[18:05:28] <IchGuckLive> storm over UK and north Europ expected to hit this night
[18:06:42] <Deejay> fleurop?
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[19:05:45] <MacGalempsy> link to slab pic?
[19:06:55] <MacGalempsy> my nephew is 8 and wants to get into programming. anyone got any suggestions for literature?
[19:08:13] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy: LOGO or Arduino
[19:08:30] <Jymmm> with the arduino, he can see the results
[19:08:31] <archivist> basic
[19:08:53] <FinboySlick> MacGalempsy
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ITP-CMM-Machine-/261318218650
[19:08:57] <Jymmm> archivist: Might as well teach him to set the clock on VCRs =)
[19:09:23] <FinboySlick> Best language to learn nowadays is probably python.
[19:09:57] <archivist> too much magic with oop
[19:10:09] <Jymmm> Arduino sketchs are (technically) java, so it's a start.
[19:10:12] <FinboySlick> archivist: You don't need to use oop with python.
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[19:10:31] <FinboySlick> You can write purely functional code.
[19:10:38] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: No need to start teaching bad practises
[19:10:46] <archivist> you need the magic whitespace too
[19:10:59] <Jymmm> Yeah, I think that would be a bigger issue
[19:11:02] <archivist> serious bad practice
[19:11:33] <Jymmm> Ardunio... lots of examples, instant feedback
[19:11:48] <Jymmm> and gets to learn electronics along the way at the same time
[19:12:40] <archivist> rpi has more educational stuff probably
[19:12:41] <Jymmm> MacGalempsy:
http://blog.arduino.cc/category/kids/
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[19:13:15] <MacGalempsy> Jymmm: thanks, i'll check that out
[19:13:18] <Jymmm> http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/24/primo/
[19:13:33] <jdh> I thought arduino sketches were c++
[19:13:45] <jdh> though I often can't tell the difference.
[19:14:21] <FinboySlick> MacGalempsy: And if you don't want to listened to the python-prejudiced people:
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781593274078.do
[19:15:12] <MacGalempsy> trying to get him started with something that would be usefully for me ;)
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[19:21:39] <archivist> there is the lego stuff
[19:21:47] <archivist> and it is xmas
[19:32:29] <MacGalempsy> those are an option
[19:37:13] <jdh> vb dot net
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[19:43:28] <WalterN> inserts are so expensive
[19:44:08] <WalterN> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/74161522
[19:45:18] <WalterN> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/05095088
[19:45:26] <WalterN> both of those should fit in the same holder, right?
[19:45:37] <syyl--> ever bought a diamond insert? ;)
[19:45:57] <WalterN> syyl--: linky
[19:48:18] <syyl--> as i am sitting in germany, a link to a supplier here would be a bit useless ;)
[19:48:43] <syyl--> those wpmt inserts should fit in the same holder, yes
[19:48:52] <syyl--> same style and size as it seems
[19:49:05] <WalterN> yeah
[19:49:14] <WalterN> though, is it worth the price difference?
[19:50:26] <WalterN> I'm cutting 4150 steel with it
[19:51:26] <WalterN> what do the grade numbers mean?
[19:52:00] <WalterN> Material Grade C5 (for the Hertel brand)
[19:52:23] <syyl--> you have to look for the specs of the manufacturer
[19:52:27] <syyl--> whats it rated for
[19:52:28] <WalterN> Material Grade Micrograin (for the Cutting Tool Technologies brand)
[19:56:25] <WalterN> bleh, I'm not finding any information on insert grade for hertel
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[19:59:21] <Tom_itx> what about Kennametal or Sandvik?
[20:00:23] <WalterN> what about them?
[20:00:40] <Tom_itx> for finding insert grades
[20:01:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/knowledge/general_turning/getting_started/choice_of_insert/insert_grade/pages/default.aspx
[20:02:05] <Tom_itx> http://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-us/knowledge/milling/grade_information/pages/default.aspx
[20:03:04] <Tom_itx> that one looks fairly complete
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[20:17:12] <WalterN> I'm finding less information on cutting tool technologies
[20:17:25] <WalterN> their catalog on their website is from 2009 evidently
[20:17:39] <WalterN> and does not contain the insert I'm looking at
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[20:33:14] <WalterN> stupid
[20:34:08] <WalterN> not finding any information on this stuff
[20:34:58] <WalterN> is that what everyone does? buy different inserts and stick with the ones that work best?
[20:37:04] <jdh> gets pricey
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[20:57:03] <mrsun_> finaly got the touch off plate to work .. damn that was a hassle just to do that, and now i cannot start stepconf anymore cause it overwrites my changes :/
[20:57:11] <mrsun_> stepconf needs to get smarter =)
[20:57:16] <mrsun_> to diff in the changes or something
[20:58:11] <jdh> add your changes to custom.hal or wtf it is.
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[21:01:31] <mrsun_> well some changes has to go into mymill.ini also =)
[21:01:35] <mrsun_> all tho not many
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[22:17:00] <Mjolinor> anyone aware of a linuxcnc 3d printer implementation that doesn't use an arduino?
[22:17:37] <Mjolinor> I have mad emyself a hot end and stuck an A axis to push the filament but I am unsure fo hte best way to control filament speed adn temperature
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[22:18:26] <cpresser> Mjolinor: that depends on the gcode
[22:18:29] <Mjolinor> I have a PIC reading the temperature adn turnign the heater on and off itself but feel that it would perhaps be better to deliver hte temperature fomr the PIC to the PC over serial and let Linuxcnc decide if it's hot enough or not
[22:18:51] <Mjolinor> but I cant find anyone that has done anyhting similar
[22:19:08] <cpresser> Mjolinor: you could create a userspace-hal-comp to communicate with the pic
[22:19:31] <Mjolinor> hmm, perhaps you could but not I :)
[22:19:48] <cpresser> most 'slicer' programs use custom m-codes for extuder and temperature controol
[22:19:56] <Mjolinor> I am happy enough with assembler all day long but C and higher is not soemthign I can do very well
[22:20:01] <cpresser> Mjolinor: when you are able to program a pic, you can do python :)
[22:20:33] <Mjolinor> Skeinforge seems to be pretty straighforaward but as you say there seem to be lots of custom M codes involved that presumably one can download form some reprap site
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[22:21:14] <cpresser> anyway, you need to adapt some of the mcodes
[22:21:26] <Mjolinor> I could write a standalone C binary to look after temperature easily enough
[22:22:18] <Mjolinor> feed rate and temperature don't seem to be too well documented generally unless oyu are using an arduino
[22:22:18] <cpresser> Mjolinor:
http://pastebin.com/xZTnQ5Jp thats how i send data to a pic
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[22:22:44] <cpresser> Mjolinor: i would take a look at
http://slic3r.org/ its not as complicated as skeinforge
[22:23:02] <Mjolinor> cheers
[22:23:41] <Mjolinor> I find skeinforge OK but it is the only one I have looked at
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[22:23:59] <Mjolinor> python bakees my noodle
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[22:24:41] <cpresser> that code looks ugly, it was my first python script
[22:24:47] <cpresser> but it works :)
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[22:25:40] <Mjolinor> it doesnt look ugly to me, it just looks random :)
[22:25:49] <cpresser> it has everything you need: open, read and write a serial port
[22:26:18] <Jymmm> serial port? who uses serial ports?
[22:26:25] <Mjolinor> I have C programmes that will read serial and I2C already
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[22:26:36] <Mjolinor> http://81.110.238.61/
[22:26:47] <cpresser> Jymmm: virtual-serial-ports. for all kind of microprocessor applications
[22:26:48] <Mjolinor> that is using C to talk to some pics over 433 MHz radio
[22:27:08] <cpresser> Mjolinor: you can write a comp in C. its not limited to pyhton
[22:27:32] <Mjolinor> I am just not sure iof linux needs any more than "temperature OK2 or not
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[22:28:16] <Mjolinor> given the choice I would do it all in assembler but that would be a lifes work I fear :)
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[22:32:52] <Mjolinor> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/comp.html
[22:32:58] <Mjolinor> is that where I shoudl start?
[22:33:34] <Mjolinor> seems like a terribly complex place to start, doesnt make a lot of sense to me :)
[22:33:39] <cpresser> Mjolinor: yes, that would do.
[22:33:41] <andypugh> For writing components, yes.
[22:34:01] <cpresser> there should be some examples for userspace components
[22:34:02] <Mjolinor> OK, cheers Ill go read it then :)
[22:35:02] <Mjolinor> I am sort of surprised that no one has done this for a 3d printer
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[22:35:42] * cpresser was to lazy to finish the project. i still have the extruder and a partially finished temperature control hidden in abox
[22:36:26] <Mjolinor> :)
[22:36:49] <Mjolinor> I actually bought a 3d printer off ebay
[22:37:06] <Mjolinor> TNT reduced ti to a fair sized pile of recycling before I go tmy hand on it
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[22:38:42] <Jymmm> Does anyone have any recommendations for a .22lr pistol?
[22:39:40] <Mjolinor> so you ahve obviously looked t this hot end filament assembly thing then
[22:40:24] <Mjolinor> I was planning on putting hte stepper on a pivot wiht a strong spring and hall effect sensor so that I can read how hard the filament is being pushed
[22:40:24] <cpresser> Mjolinor: i did
[22:40:45] <Mjolinor> but none of the things I have looked at seem to care how hard hte filament is pushed, they jsut push it
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[22:41:10] <cpresser> Mjolinor: true. all designs i know dont care about a 'readback'. they just push
[22:41:21] <Mjolinor> so if you push at a particular rate then it is only the temperature that controls how much flows
[22:41:33] <Tom_itx> Jymmm why so small?
[22:42:28] <Mjolinor> thats not right, they dont push, they pass
[22:43:01] <Mjolinor> the amount of push is not used they jsut feed so extrusion rate is fixed and if the hot end is not hot enough then presumably they stall the stepper
[22:43:17] <Mjolinor> or strip the filament
[22:43:50] <cpresser> you just described one of the various problems of FDM-Type printers :)
[22:44:01] <Mjolinor> that doesn't seem sensible to me, much better to measure the force on the filament I think
[22:44:04] <cpresser> i have a seen a lot of people struggling with this issue
[22:44:44] <Tom_itx> Jymmm,
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_madewi0oQg1rwjpnyo1_500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://peashooter85.tumblr.com/post/31563209583/remington-xp-100-these-single-shot-bolt-action&h=241&w=500&sz=25&tbnid=Rat3pzYW6L_tpM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=187&zoom=1&usg=__N0P0Sa0XKiE0AQG9P1-WcsKsUJg=&docid=RF2AIYb-gHPD8M&sa=X&ei=56-fUrfcGca1kAeAh4D4Dw&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAQ
[22:45:07] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball
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[22:48:22] <Mjolinor> anyone know what sort of feed in rate the filament needs?
[22:48:41] <Mjolinor> all fo the info I find is realted to output flow rate, nothign about the in rate of the filament
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