#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-15

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[00:00:44] <Tom_itx> dog tags?
[00:01:04] <Jymmm> you need some?
[00:01:08] <Tom_itx> no
[00:01:22] <Jymmm> Those I can get if you do
[00:01:23] <Tom_itx> also ask the dudes that make ss stencils for solder mask
[00:01:35] <Tom_itx> where they get theirs
[00:01:54] <Jymmm> They use MUCH thinner than 0.01
[00:02:07] <Tom_itx> same suppliers though
[00:02:18] <Tom_itx> probably .003 or so
[00:02:30] <Tom_itx> maybe a bit thicker
[00:02:59] <Jymmm> god idea
[00:03:10] <Jymmm> good*
[00:03:18] <Jymmm> bbiab
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[00:38:34] <MacGalempsy> /away
[00:38:48] <MacGalempsy> \away
[00:38:52] <MacGalempsy> hah oops
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[02:45:22] <eric_unterhausen> is there an XZC config in samples?. I guess I want a lathe config, but I have complete control over the C spindle and also have a spindle mounted on Z
[02:46:29] <eric_unterhausen> if I do G01 Xxx Cyy F10, does that mean that C rotates at 10 deg/min and X moves at 10mm/min?
[02:48:35] <skunkworks> If I understand it - x moves at 10ipm if it can - (if C can go fast enough to do it..) so they both end at the same time
[02:49:10] <skunkworks> if it was just C then it would be in deg/min
[02:49:13] <skunkworks> F
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[05:06:21] <ju-emb> some advice how to run glade with hal components on a sim machine?
[05:07:55] <ju-emb> oops, wrong tab
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[06:04:35] <MacGalempsy> FINALLY...success with the drive wanting to go both ways. now it just needs to be tuned and one drive should be done
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[06:05:48] <MacGalempsy> the trick was to plug the tachs into the reference voltages because the ideal difference is 0, so the two cancel out and all is good in the hood. for now
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[07:40:59] <_DJ_> moin
[07:53:17] <MacGalempsy> MORNING DJ
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[10:05:11] <Jymmm> Hand moldable plastic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGSKSDdWlKw
[10:05:12] <Tecan> (RGSKSDdWlKw) "Hand Moldable Plastic Molding a Handle" by "inventables" is "Tech" - Length: 0:04:55
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[10:35:04] <MacGalempsy> Jymmm: when PID tuning, do I adjust P in halscope?
[10:35:50] <Jymmm> no clue, I just use steppers.
[10:36:17] <MacGalempsy> ok. what kind of stuff do you make?
[10:38:33] <Jymmm> laser cut Illuminary from wood and paper http://i51.tinypic.com/2rqzvw0.jpg
[10:39:00] <MacGalempsy> wow that looks great
[10:39:17] <MacGalempsy> you sell those retail or wholesale?
[10:39:45] <Jymmm> Edge lit clear acrylic nightlights (apx 4" x 2") http://i53.tinypic.com/2ducze8.jpg and http://i51.tinypic.com/2jttp2.jpg
[10:40:21] <MacGalempsy> nice
[10:40:31] <Jymmm> My "Teddy Bear" laser engraved from a photo into 12" granite tile http://i54.tinypic.com/k2mo7n.jpg
[10:41:18] <Jymmm> Everything I do is basically custom stuff.
[10:41:19] <MacGalempsy> very cool. did you use the photo converter w linuxcnc?
[10:42:13] <Jymmm> No, I do most (not all) things in CorelDraw and a variety of other grphics apps
[10:44:44] <MacGalempsy> it is amazing how versatile linuxcnc seems to be
[10:46:42] <Jymmm> It is, but my I have a commercial laser, not DIY. My router (which is for sale) is DIY.
[10:49:33] <MacGalempsy> I am not into manufacturing yet, but I do have aspirations of making some plastic injection molds
[10:49:58] <Jymmm> out of metal?
[10:50:37] <MacGalempsy> yes
[10:51:07] <MacGalempsy> cut into aluminum or steel, then inject. I am hoping for prototypes before the end of the year
[10:51:53] <MacGalempsy> just got the x and Y to run in the appropriate directions, but now need to PID tune and move on to the activating the zbrake before moves
[10:52:49] <Jymmm> you have mold heaters already?
[10:52:57] <Jymmm> and ejection pins?
[10:53:26] <MacGalempsy> I have nothing. this whole endevor is a side project that I work on during my normal shift
[10:53:40] <MacGalempsy> so, one machine at a time :)
[10:53:48] <Jymmm> oh, you work in a place that has mold injection machines?
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[10:54:09] <MacGalempsy> no I work from a home office geosteering horizontal oil and gas wells
[10:54:45] <MacGalempsy> last year I built a 3d printer and got some crazy ideas. decided this would be a good way to keep my mind sharp
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[10:55:07] <Jymmm> Have you seen a mold injection machine up close and in person while operating?
[10:55:38] <MacGalempsy> not in person, but threre are some small ones that look like they would be good to try out
[10:55:51] <Jymmm> small?
[10:55:53] <MacGalempsy> the knobs are for dashboards, so not too big
[10:56:29] <Jymmm> you have a machien shop in your garage?
[10:56:29] <MacGalempsy> the one I saw was about 2x2x3
[10:56:42] <MacGalempsy> as of now, I just have the benchman XT
[10:57:38] <MacGalempsy> once that is done, a few guys on the reprap channel were talking about working on an opensource wire EDM
[11:00:19] <MacGalempsy> btw that ultramaster software took some working, but it finally delivered the result. thanks
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[11:48:21] <syyl-> there are realy small injection mold machines, Jymmm
[11:48:33] <syyl-> about the size of an average laserprinter
[11:48:39] <syyl-> bechtop
[11:49:05] <syyl-> mostly for prototyping and small batch runs
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[12:24:28] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy, http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mold_mach_137.htm
[12:25:05] <archivist> heh that page crashed my firefox
[12:25:14] <Tom_itx> not mine
[12:25:20] <Tom_itx> running ff here
[12:26:02] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: got the motors running back and forth
[12:26:12] <jthornton> what did you find out
[12:26:13] <Tom_itx> so i see, congrats
[12:26:40] <MacGalempsy> so the tachs I just pluged into the references
[12:27:14] <MacGalempsy> just counted the pully gears and need to adjust the counts equation
[12:28:17] <MacGalempsy> shouldnt be too much to figure that out. then I would like to ask for some help PID tuning. having problems seeing values in halscope
[12:28:19] <Tom_itx> you in okc?
[12:28:24] <MacGalempsy> yep
[12:28:33] <Tom_itx> ict here
[12:28:52] <jthornton> you need a trigger
[12:29:29] <MacGalempsy> give me a sec. want to run these numbers and update the INI
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[12:40:21] <MacGarage> ok. so things are moving pretty accurately
[12:41:14] <MacGarage> a 1" jog moves it 0.9865"
[12:42:21] <MacGarage> how do I tighten this up?
[12:42:38] <archivist> get the numbers right
[12:43:00] <archivist> but first tune your axes
[12:44:06] <jthornton> if you move 1" and the table does not move 1" your scale is off
[12:44:06] <MacGarage> I read to start increasing P until it oscillating begins, but I cannot figure out how to read that
[12:44:20] <jthornton> the table will shake
[12:44:33] <jthornton> but first get your scale correct
[12:45:08] <MacGarage> I counted the motor teeth at 14 the leadscrew at 28
[12:45:20] <MacGarage> I swear it was 5 turns per inch
[12:45:31] <MacGarage> and the encoder has 2500 counts
[12:46:09] <MacGarage> I wonder if they used metric ballscrews
[12:46:57] <jthornton> do you have a dial indicator that has 1" of travel?
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[12:48:27] <archivist> jthornton, why not tune first, ferror will be loose till its tuned
[12:49:45] <gonzo_> that ratio does look like the difference between 5mm and 200thou
[12:51:21] <jthornton> I guess I'm anal about getting the scale set first
[12:51:21] <gonzo_> (within a couple of thou anyway)
[12:52:27] <Tom_itx> fixing the 'knowns' first makes sense to me
[12:53:03] <jthornton> yea, I guess that is what I mean... but it is early
[12:53:25] * Tom_itx gives jthornton some java
[12:53:32] <archivist> I dont expect accurate display till the servo is locked up nicely
[12:54:04] <jthornton> speaking of java I learned that there is two java's, java and javascript
[12:54:12] <Tom_itx> i'd also measure after taking the backlash out in one direction
[12:54:17] <Tom_itx> to begin with
[12:54:38] <MacGarage> are ballscrfews 0 backlash?
[12:54:45] <archivist> not all
[12:54:56] <archivist> depends how much you pay
[12:54:58] <Tom_itx> nothing is absolutely 0 backlash
[12:55:14] * Tom_itx waits for the argument
[12:55:15] <archivist> preload has 0 backlash
[12:57:23] <archivist> but I do like how every thing in a machine is a spring to an extent
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[13:02:21] <MacGarage> how would I go about measuring backlash?
[13:03:54] <archivist> dti and bidirectional moves and looking on the dti
[13:04:20] <MacGarage> dti?
[13:04:32] <archivist> dial test indicator
[13:04:42] <MacGarage> oh
[13:05:05] <MacGarage> so bidirectional, so set at zero, then jog left then jog right?
[13:05:09] <archivist> eg look at third graph at the left hand side http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
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[14:10:55] <MacGarage> thanks for the help guys, the counts seem to be within tolerances and the manual says they are zero backlash
[14:11:11] <skunkworks> so - tune it and see...
[14:11:13] <skunkworks> :)
[14:11:27] <MacGarage> i keep increasing P and the table wont shake
[14:11:33] <skunkworks> (and no - I am no expert in tuning.. You really just have to jump in..)
[14:11:41] <skunkworks> what are you up to?
[14:11:54] <MacGarage> -15
[14:12:11] <MacGarage> but I cannot figure out how to use halscope
[14:12:14] <skunkworks> uh - negative is not normal...
[14:12:27] <MacGarage> inverse is the only way I could get everything to work
[14:12:53] <MacGarage> i guess I could invert and invert the encoder value, but it works
[14:13:11] <MacGarage> the axes move in the right direction and the counts on the dro are good
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[14:18:11] <MacGarage> anyone around who can tell me how to hookup halscope? I have it set up like in johns tutorial, but no across the screen
[14:22:54] <MacGarage> well guys, im off to bed. have a nice day! TGIF!
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[14:27:37] <PetefromTn> Morning folks..
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[14:41:01] <JT_Shop> MacGalempsy, you need to set up a trigger
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[14:58:26] <pcw_home> Yeah you need to invert the analog out if the encoder scale is right but the feedback is backwards (or reverse the motor leads)
[14:59:17] <pcw_home> -P is no good
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[14:59:58] <pcw_home> (well its -I thats the problem with the PID comp but -P means I is not available))
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[15:00:33] <Jymmm> syyl-: video or they dont exist =)
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[15:07:18] <Jymmm> hold oddbal parts while machining http://vimeo.com/2488267
[15:08:40] <Jymmm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3CNV3ygHAs
[15:08:56] <Jymmm> Engraving Scrollwork - Start to Finish
[15:10:18] <archivist> Jymmm, fleabay 251301661796
[15:11:43] <Jymmm> archivist: thanks
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[15:15:30] <Jymmm> Lots of test equipment http://www.hi-techequipment.com/stock/index.php?cPath=1
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[15:16:34] <Jymmm> archivist: When electro etching, what does different voltages/amperages do?
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[15:17:47] <archivist> depends on the material, but choice usually depends on rate and finish, too much and it will be rough and spoil
[15:18:19] <Jymmm> archivist: Ah, chainsaw vs mill
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[15:19:06] <archivist> too little and it will take an age and the fluid could attack the resist
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[15:21:21] <Jymmm> archivist: Going to try SS shim stock 0.010". Need to do full-thru etching (holes) and surface etching (engraving). Couple of people suggested wax for the resist. I haven't tried yet, but I may be able to vaporize the wax on my laser.
[15:24:06] <cpresser> Jymmm: most likely the wax fumes will be a problem
[15:24:19] <cpresser> you cant controll where the fumes deposit again
[15:24:25] <Jymmm> cpresser: from the lasering or etching ?
[15:24:26] <cpresser> but its worth a try :)
[15:24:35] <cpresser> from the lasering.
[15:25:29] <Jymmm> Heh, nah, have a 950CFM dust collector on it and carbon filter. Plus nothing stinks as much as when lasering leather/rubber
[15:25:54] <Jymmm> It's just vaporizing it before letting it reflow.
[15:27:35] <Jymmm> But I know where I might be able to get 60 lbs of high temp (brittle) wax really cheap
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[15:29:36] <Jymmm> I think I still have a 1/2lb sample around here. Might try and see how thin I can coat some piece.
[15:29:46] <Jymmm> pieces*
[15:30:54] <Jymmm> archivist: and the difference between etching and plating is reversing the polarity?
[15:31:04] <archivist> yes
[15:31:17] <Jymmm> lol, that's too cool.
[15:31:38] <archivist> and having a sensible cathode/anode
[15:31:50] <Jymmm> such as?
[15:32:14] <archivist> for plating you want to supply the metal
[15:32:35] <Jymmm> sure
[15:32:45] <archivist> for etching you want something not to annoy the solution
[15:33:30] <Jymmm> annoy? I was just thinking tool steel, or some automotive steel bracket
[15:33:53] <archivist> often is lead
[15:34:24] <archivist> not ever heard of steel being used, dumb idea
[15:34:38] <Jymmm> why's that?
[15:34:43] <archivist> rust
[15:34:59] <Jymmm> ah
[15:35:21] <Jymmm> aluminum?
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[15:35:32] <archivist> and or any other insulating layer
[15:35:50] <archivist> which rules out aluminium
[15:36:09] <Jymmm> aluminum is an insulator???
[15:36:21] <archivist> please understand why aluminium stays shiny
[15:36:39] <Jymmm> annodize?
[15:37:27] <archivist> it self oxidises like stainless steel does
[15:37:35] <Jymmm> ah
[15:38:34] <archivist> so for etching one has to strip that layer first
[15:39:05] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pounds-Clean-Lead-Ingots-Casting-Metal-Reloading-Bullets-Sinkers-Lures-/321100695177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac317c689
[15:39:19] <Jymmm> 5lbs for ~ 15
[15:39:42] <archivist> you want sheet really for bath lining
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[15:40:25] <Jymmm> what about zinc?
[15:40:44] <Jymmm> Calif has this Prop 65 warning bullshit regarding lead
[15:41:03] <archivist> sod the warnings :)
[15:41:33] <Jymmm> lol, normally I would but their pricks about it.
[15:41:39] <Jymmm> they're
[15:41:57] <archivist> dive to next state fetch drive back
[15:42:01] <archivist> drive
[15:42:35] <Jymmm> Oh no, not that. This product contains lead warning in the etched item
[15:42:55] <gonzo_> go digging in the sand at the local range
[15:43:25] <archivist> go to a roofing store for lead flashing
[15:43:31] <Jymmm> gonzo_: They'll shoot me =) Metal recycling around here is a huge thing.
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[15:44:18] <Jymmm> archivist: when etching, doens't the lead break down?
[15:44:54] <archivist> you are plating iron on it ish
[15:45:19] <Jymmm> ok
[15:45:31] <archivist> but you can acid etch without current
[15:46:22] <Jymmm> I like the salt water idea over baths of acid
[15:46:36] <Jymmm> just toss on the weeds when it gets icky =)
[15:47:09] <archivist> you may need acid and caustic baths anyway
[15:47:35] <Jymmm> final cleanup of the etch parts?
[15:48:21] <archivist> no, the strip the oxidised layer to start etching stage
[15:49:02] <Jymmm> Ah
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[16:03:09] <Jymmm> Ok, I'm in lust... http://vimeo.com/41597539#
[16:04:05] <Jymmm> Meats on sticks!!!
[16:05:46] <jmasseo> you can acid plate too :)
[16:06:10] <jmasseo> ask any jeweler who stuck their metal tongs in the pickle pot and everything comes out all pink. :)
[16:06:14] <jmasseo> err, steel tongs
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[16:06:49] <Jymmm> pickle pot?
[16:06:56] <archivist> and silver plate
[16:06:59] <jmasseo> pickle pot
[16:07:03] <jmasseo> it's a little acid bath jewelers use
[16:07:08] <jmasseo> usually a mild sulfuric
[16:07:10] <jmasseo> sometimes vinegar
[16:07:13] <Jymmm> gotcha
[16:07:20] <archivist> with some nitrin in
[16:07:28] <archivist> nitric
[16:07:33] <jmasseo> anyway, when you work with sterling in particular, when it's heated, the copper rises to the surface and oxidizes
[16:07:42] <jmasseo> so you drop it in the pickle
[16:07:46] <jmasseo> and all the oxides dissolve
[16:07:56] <jmasseo> but if you reach in with a metal that is lower on the activity series...
[16:07:57] <jmasseo> like iron
[16:08:06] <jmasseo> higher on the activity series?
[16:08:09] <jmasseo> whatever
[16:08:16] <jmasseo> all the copper will precipitate out onto whatever is in there
[16:08:33] <archivist> pickle is used for brass castings too
[16:08:37] <jmasseo> yeah
[16:08:45] <jmasseo> sparex works on all the non-ferrous stuff i've done
[16:08:48] <jmasseo> brass, copper, silver
[16:09:01] <jmasseo> i use vinegar on steel
[16:09:17] <jmasseo> but that's usually stripping galvanization off more than pickling :)
[16:09:34] <jmasseo> also because it's cheap and i'm not in a hurry
[16:10:22] <jmasseo> i don't think there is nitric in jewelers pickle, actually
[16:10:23] <Jymmm> Will vinegar remove ozidation layer on SS ?
[16:10:32] <jmasseo> Vinegar should remove ferric oxides.
[16:10:56] <jmasseo> i think it will also disolve some of the alloys though
[16:11:00] <jmasseo> i think chromium will disolve in vinegar?
[16:11:09] <jmasseo> of course
[16:11:19] <jmasseo> i doubt that will be an issue though
[16:11:32] <Jymmm> are we talking household vinegar or lab grade?
[16:11:38] <jmasseo> i use the cheap shit
[16:11:43] <Jymmm> k
[16:11:52] <jmasseo> from the grocers
[16:11:54] <Jymmm> $2 as restraunt supply
[16:11:58] <Jymmm> at*
[16:12:00] <jmasseo> yeah
[16:12:08] <jmasseo> it's like $1.69/gal from albertsons or whatever
[16:12:14] <archivist> use white less crap in it probably
[16:12:14] <jmasseo> a gallon lasts a while too
[16:12:14] <Jymmm> yeah
[16:12:22] <jmasseo> yeah
[16:12:25] <jmasseo> distilled white is what i use
[16:12:28] <jmasseo> balsamic steel!
[16:12:36] <Jymmm> red wine!
[16:12:49] <jmasseo> malted!
[16:13:01] <Jymmm> rice wine
[16:13:04] <jmasseo> heh
[16:13:13] <jmasseo> even the cheap albertsons stuff will bother my skin if i don't clean it off though
[16:13:23] <jmasseo> it's like dilute to 5% too
[16:13:42] <Jymmm> It's ok, I usually keep lbs of baking soda arund here
[16:13:49] <archivist> thou shall be shot if pickling antique clock parts
[16:13:51] <jmasseo> yeah i have a huge bag of it to base shit out
[16:14:02] <jmasseo> i should keep lye or ammonia around too but i don't
[16:14:24] <Jymmm> lye?
[16:14:31] <jmasseo> the best base
[16:14:42] <jmasseo> NaOH
[16:15:02] <Jymmm> ah, I think I was getting stoned during chem class
[16:15:03] <archivist> ammonia is bad for brasses too, can cause stress corrosion cracking
[16:15:18] <Jymmm> archivist: didn't know that.
[16:15:29] <Jymmm> archivist: crazing?
[16:15:46] <Jymmm> micro fractures
[16:15:53] <archivist> very popular for polishing brass I know, but please dont
[16:15:55] <Jymmm> cuase that might be a cool effect
[16:16:10] <archivist> can crack all the way
[16:16:17] <Jymmm> ah
[16:16:41] <archivist> specially if any stress left in
[16:17:09] <jmasseo> brass is such a funky alloy
[16:17:20] <jmasseo> i know a guy with a shitload of brass turnings in his shop
[16:17:23] <jmasseo> i kind of want to try a little casting
[16:17:27] <jmasseo> err no
[16:17:27] <Jymmm> I think I just want to KISS.... salt water and a PS etching. Hard part is getting SS shim stock at reasonable pricing
[16:17:28] <jmasseo> it's bronze
[16:17:30] <jmasseo> silicon bronze
[16:17:32] <jmasseo> my bad
[16:17:49] <jmasseo> SS is costly. :/
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[16:17:59] <jmasseo> i have a few pieces of generic scrap stainless
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[16:18:19] <jmasseo> i actually have a piece in stainless i need to clean up and polish
[16:18:24] <jmasseo> just a plasma cut silhouette
[16:18:28] <jmasseo> i was just gonna do it by hand.
[16:18:35] <Jymmm> I can get it cheaper on the East Coast, then shipping costs come into play.
[16:18:50] <jmasseo> we have a stainless specialty supplier near me
[16:18:56] <jmasseo> although i know a guy who orders his metal from out of state
[16:18:58] <jmasseo> like 5160 bar
[16:19:08] <jmasseo> i'm in tx us btw
[16:19:15] <Jymmm> This is 0.010" shim stock
[16:19:22] <jmasseo> oh
[16:19:26] <jmasseo> precision?
[16:19:33] <Jymmm> not really
[16:19:42] <jmasseo> got a rolling mill? :)
[16:19:47] <Jymmm> 302/304 Full Hard polished
[16:19:52] <jmasseo> not rolling that
[16:20:32] <Jymmm> No mill, just 20 pairs of HF free scissors =)
[16:21:33] <jmasseo> they give out free scissors?
[16:21:41] <Jymmm> Coupons,
[16:21:52] <Jymmm> shit loads of them in the newspaper every week
[16:22:03] <Jymmm> scissors, tape measures, flashlights, etc
[16:22:15] <jmasseo> oh right
[16:22:21] <Jymmm> screwdriver sets, etc plus a 25% off one item coupon
[16:22:37] <jmasseo> my next HF purchases will probably be a vacuum pump and maybe a drill press
[16:22:40] <jmasseo> i do not have a drill press
[16:22:45] <jmasseo> which means at certain times, my life sucks.
[16:22:59] <Jymmm> forget the vac pump from HF
[16:23:14] <jmasseo> does not operate per specifications?
[16:23:33] <Jymmm> it might... till the seals go
[16:23:46] <jmasseo> i have a vacuum pump with a bad A/C motor
[16:23:49] <jmasseo> i dropped it at the shop.
[16:23:56] <Jymmm> replace the motor
[16:23:58] <jmasseo> i need the vacuum for vacuum investing
[16:24:01] <jmasseo> it's an OEM
[16:24:06] <Jymmm> who?
[16:24:11] <jmasseo> Whip Mix?
[16:24:18] <jmasseo> GE motor OEM'd by Whip Mix
[16:24:23] <jmasseo> so it has a special shaft on it
[16:24:28] <jmasseo> to fit into the vacuum investment mixers
[16:24:31] <jmasseo> to spin em
[16:24:31] <Jymmm> find dental equipment... they have vac pumps
[16:24:38] <jmasseo> this is dental equipment. :)
[16:24:43] <Jymmm> there ya go
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[16:25:13] <jmasseo> i spent a pile of cash on this lot of equipment.
[16:25:22] <jmasseo> i mean, i'm still ok even if i can't restore the pump
[16:25:34] <jmasseo> i got a kiln, centrifigal caster, and a baldor polishing lathe.
[16:25:42] <jmasseo> a torch head and lines
[16:25:54] <jmasseo> so it was a good deal regardless. :)
[16:26:02] <jmasseo> just eager to do some casting.
[16:26:11] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/R105228-Thomas-Compressors-905CA23TFE-217E-Benchtop-Vacuum-Pump-/331061664251?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item4d14d019fb
[16:27:30] <jmasseo> lots of options on ebay
[16:27:40] <Jymmm> 45m left on that auction
[16:27:56] <Jymmm> raping on shipping though
[16:27:59] <jmasseo> right
[16:28:03] <jmasseo> but it's still less than HF compressor
[16:28:06] <jmasseo> and probably not a piece of shit
[16:28:35] <jmasseo> but it will only pull 22.5"
[16:29:14] <Jymmm> http://www.ebay.com/itm/905CA23TFE-217E-Thomas-115V-Compressor-Type-Vacuum-Pump-/130573389981
[16:29:23] <Jymmm> $50 vs $400
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[16:30:08] <jmasseo> wow
[16:30:10] <jmasseo> for the same thing
[16:30:34] <CaptHindsight> you get what you pay for?
[16:30:47] <Jymmm> also says "as is" , so eh
[16:33:36] <jmasseo> right
[16:33:43] <jmasseo> the refrigeration pumps seem to have the highest vacuum
[16:33:45] <CaptHindsight> Jymmm: so "Makers" were using spray paint as an etch resist or mask, and using their laser cutter to remove the paint where they wanted the etch to attack
[16:34:15] <jmasseo> spray paint?
[16:34:26] <CaptHindsight> yes
[16:34:52] <jmasseo> Won't the solvent pick that up?
[16:35:11] <jmasseo> i guess you use an organic solvent with paint.
[16:35:19] <CaptHindsight> if you etch in solvent
[16:35:28] <jmasseo> vs an acid
[16:35:41] <jmasseo> apart from the burning paint
[16:35:44] <jmasseo> how did it turn out?
[16:35:53] <CaptHindsight> http://hackaday.com/2008/08/03/laser-etching-printed-circuit-boards/ PCB example
[16:36:31] <jmasseo> looks pretty good
[16:36:39] <jmasseo> probably a better material to use
[16:37:08] <jmasseo> be pretty cool for artistic etching
[16:37:23] <CaptHindsight> many acrylated photopolymers are also acid resistant
[16:37:33] <jmasseo> i've heard of people using vinyl masks
[16:37:45] <jmasseo> I wonder if i could cut a series of masks to do an etched relief.
[16:38:09] <CaptHindsight> coat, expose with a mask, removed uncured polymer, etch
[16:38:24] <jmasseo> CaptHindsight: s/expose with a mask/DLP/
[16:38:34] <jmasseo> DLP and Photolithography!
[16:38:50] <jmasseo> we don't need to stinkin stencil
[16:39:13] <jmasseo> i think the Form1 laser-cures it's material
[16:39:22] <jmasseo> or is it DLP?
[16:39:31] <CaptHindsight> yes, a DLP or UV lamp with a printed mask (overhead transparency) or film
[16:39:59] <jmasseo> I'd like to see DLP scaled down for semiconductor lithography
[16:40:02] <CaptHindsight> form1 uses a 405nm laser + galvo
[16:40:25] <CaptHindsight> jmasseo: yes, it works quite well for lithography
[16:40:27] <jmasseo> you could use the same technique as form1 for masking as well
[16:41:29] <CaptHindsight> the precoated etch resist PCB's use a water based emulsion photopolymer
[16:41:32] <cpresser> CaptHindsight: thank you for that laser-etching link. ill try that soon :)
[16:41:41] <CaptHindsight> similar to what is used to make silk screens
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[16:42:05] <jmasseo> if i had access to nitric, i'd like to try to do some etched silverwork.
[16:42:13] <jmasseo> maybe i'll try the laser cutter on copper/brass with the spraypaint
[16:42:41] <archivist> hand engraving for silver !
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[16:44:36] <CaptHindsight> cpresser: http://makezine.com/2007/01/22/how-to-use-a-laser-to-etc/ more links
[16:45:36] <jmasseo> heh
[16:45:41] <jmasseo> i have not tried hand engraving yet
[16:45:42] <jmasseo> i'd like to
[16:45:44] <jmasseo> i don't have the cutters.
[16:45:47] <jmasseo> i guess i could make some
[16:46:01] <CaptHindsight> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
[16:46:19] <archivist> I have done a tiny bit usually as part of a repair
[16:46:58] <CaptHindsight> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cartesianco/the-ex1-rapid-3d-printing-of-circuit-boards
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[16:48:22] <CaptHindsight> anyone going to Fabtech next week? http://www.fabtechexpo.com/
[16:48:40] <archivist> and I cheat, I start the repair with the brass insert proud of the correct level so I can fix it as I level it
[16:48:49] <jmasseo> sounds like fun.
[16:49:18] <jmasseo> archivist: what do you repair?
[16:49:53] <archivist> http://www.collection.archivist.info/searchv13.php?searchstr=norfolk+dial was a clock dial
[16:50:31] <archivist> the close ups are terrible so dont show the process well at all
[16:50:49] <jmasseo> so you fix clocks?
[16:51:10] <archivist> I used to, got redundancy
[16:51:24] <jmasseo> not that much demand for fixing clocks?
[16:52:21] <archivist> no, and the customers dont like the prices for better work
[16:52:29] <jmasseo> right
[16:52:39] <jmasseo> they also don't understand what's involved.
[16:52:55] <archivist> very few do
[16:53:04] <jmasseo> very nice work
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[16:53:49] <jmasseo> so you had to match the scroll where you replaced part of the body
[16:53:54] <archivist> boss did the hands and silvering and the pillars, I did the hole filling and the engraving
[16:54:16] <archivist> yes
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[16:55:18] <jmasseo> I kind of want to do something crafty for a career
[16:55:30] <jmasseo> Seems very difficult to do.
[16:56:00] <archivist> depends if your brain can control your hands
[16:56:09] <jmasseo> i mean businesswise
[16:56:35] <archivist> yes, getting the work is hard
[16:56:55] <jmasseo> I know some people have more work than they can do
[16:56:57] <jmasseo> and others can't find any
[16:57:04] <jmasseo> and skill level does not seem to be the determining factor
[16:57:19] <archivist> most is got by repeat business
[16:57:29] <jmasseo> get the word out
[16:58:14] <archivist> first get work so you can pay for advertising
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[17:15:05] <kwallace> archivist: Have you considered trying KickStarter for an engraving project?
[17:15:16] <jmasseo> right
[17:15:25] <jmasseo> My plan is 'Dont quit my day job'
[17:15:25] <jmasseo> heh
[17:15:30] <jmasseo> At least until I have enough work to replace it.
[17:15:45] <archivist> I dont think I could scam my level of engraving on that site
[17:16:07] <jmasseo> scam?
[17:17:04] <archivist> I do think some projects over state their abilities :)
[17:17:44] <archivist> there is a huge difference in doing a patch repair to a new project
[17:18:58] <kwallace> But you can do both repair and new.
[17:20:11] <archivist> I could not do new hand engraving
[17:20:41] <archivist> never trained for it, and am not artistic at all
[17:20:42] <kwallace> If you say so.
[17:21:33] <archivist> repair is a lot easier, one is joining up to existing art
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[17:24:12] <archivist> although I did attempt a tiny bit of new on a repair the two bits in the middle http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2005/2005_04_01_Clockworks/P4010901.JPG
[17:24:20] <kwallace> Getting different levels of funders, 1, 5, 100, 1000 $ or p on a single repair project might be a problem. Maybe sell mugs and t-shirts for a project for a museum.
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[17:28:53] <kwallace> You get business, the museum gets advertising and a repair, your funders get a trinket and involvement. Everyone is happy.
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[17:30:59] <archivist> one usually has to have certificates and stuff to get paying museum work
[17:32:06] <archivist> or as I was when employed at the clockworks, hide behind bosses fellowship of the BHI
[17:32:10] <jmasseo> i'm trying to discover my 'artistic' side
[17:32:12] <jmasseo> or my 'creative' side
[17:32:13] <jmasseo> whatever
[17:32:20] <jmasseo> since i've been pretty technically driven my life
[17:32:37] <jmasseo> i know how to make music that sounds good, because i studied the theory behind music that sounds good. Not because of any inate creative drive.
[17:32:52] <archivist> was funny when I went there I asked what tolerance to machine stuff to
[17:32:53] <kwallace> Your website is your certificate.
[17:34:54] <jmasseo> I think that's probably true too.
[17:35:03] <jmasseo> Having a website that does not suck full of portfolio that does not suck
[17:36:07] <kwallace> I suppose in England, social and professional restrictions are greater than here in the U.S.
[17:36:47] <archivist> dunno, you lot are protecting the term engineer more than we do
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[17:37:55] <jmasseo> The term engineer in the US makes me sad
[17:38:00] <jmasseo> I doubt I'll ever be a real 'engineer' by american standards
[17:38:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:38:09] <jmasseo> I'm a 'technician' :)
[17:38:27] <IchGuckLive> engineer is wire into plug
[17:38:48] <IchGuckLive> techniken plugs the wire
[17:38:58] <IchGuckLive> or the other way O.O
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[17:40:50] <jmasseo> alright
[17:40:52] <jmasseo> i'm going to lunch
[17:41:19] <IchGuckLive> pizza is off here its cold outside today no BBQ
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[17:41:49] <IchGuckLive> SAD but tomorrow we will have a nice "Flammkuchen "
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[18:24:50] <IchGuckLive> hi narogon how is it design overtaken
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[18:34:24] <andypugh> This http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360762617209 5A DC-DC converter with voltage and current display is surprisingly tiny. About 1" x 2" in fact.
[18:36:00] <archivist> hmm cheeeeeeeep
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[18:38:44] <archivist> I want a little 5A 12 v psu I wonder how upset it gets when one get to that limit
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[18:42:14] <archivist> heh 166 negative feedback in the last month
[18:43:02] <IchGuckLive> archivist why not a meanwell 12V 6.8A
[18:43:13] <IchGuckLive> to large ?
[18:44:29] <Connor> So, Is using a USB Camera for Edge Finding really that difficult? I seen lots of stuff about frame rate and HD not being suitable etc etc..
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[18:45:18] <IchGuckLive> no use PY>thon PIL
[18:45:19] <Connor> Touch probe or Camera next thing I'm getting when I finish getting the enclosure built and get the mill mounted back in it..
[18:45:35] <IchGuckLive> and the frame it to 0/255
[18:45:42] <IchGuckLive> so you get your edge
[18:46:07] <IchGuckLive> there are also filters that give you a clear signal on edges
[18:46:32] <IchGuckLive> Cylly: Wie heist hutschiene auf english
[18:46:35] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Not talking about edge finder as in filter.. Edge finder as in for the mill.. you mount camera on spindle..
[18:46:59] <IchGuckLive> the tool edge
[18:47:00] <Connor> use it like a probe to find edges and center of circles etc..
[18:47:04] <IchGuckLive> or the part
[18:47:05] <Cylly> IchGuckLive: kA. C-profile vielleicht?
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[18:47:19] <IchGuckLive> Cylly: danke
[18:47:40] <jdh> connor: how do you align the cam rotationally?
[18:47:44] <Cylly> ah, "top hat rail, DIN-Rail"
[18:47:57] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[18:47:58] <Connor> jdh, No clue. Not to that part yet. :)
[18:48:01] <Cylly> says dict.cc ;-)
[18:48:22] <IchGuckLive> archivist there are Top hat rail mount also for near 15USD that size available
[18:48:35] <Connor> I'm just seeing a bunch of stuff flying by on the mail list.
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[18:48:48] <jsskangas> HEY, anyone has tryed 5-axis simultaneous machining in EMC2
[18:48:51] <jsskangas> ??
[18:51:03] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh9eCupbsso
[18:51:06] <andypugh> jsskangas: Yes, some people have
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[18:52:02] <andypugh> Or, a bitmore heavy-duty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ
[18:52:13] <jsskangas> OK, How you have solved a problem related to feed
[18:52:36] <andypugh> Which problem?
[18:52:50] <jsskangas> when rotating and moving cut feed is debended on how far you are from center
[18:53:19] <andypugh> It needs to be solved by the CAM system, and the CAM needs to use inverse-time mode
[18:53:36] <archivist> jsskangas, there is no god answer for that yet in linuxcnc itself
[18:54:10] <cradek> andypugh is right, and that's also how it's handled in commercial controls
[18:54:44] <jsskangas> not in MAZAK as I have noticed
[18:54:57] <archivist> jsskangas, as I hand code I tend to experiment with feed till I am happy ish
[18:55:28] <cradek> jsskangas: have any more details? link to documentation?
[18:56:26] <jsskangas> No but I have IVS200 in my use
[18:56:39] <andypugh> I can see how a tilting-tool machine might be able to calculate the feed rate, but it is more difficult for moving-work systems.
[18:57:06] <jsskangas> Yep it is a hard task
[18:58:00] <jsskangas> I work as fulltime NX CAM support and implementation
[18:58:20] <Jymmm> andypugh: Nice find. I have one of these... http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html
[18:58:33] <jsskangas> I have done lot of kinematics and G code simulation stuff whit NX
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[18:59:46] <jsskangas> and reasently I retrofitted EMC2 on and old moriseiki where we are now building a 5 table from harmonic drives
[19:00:04] <jsskangas> that why I was asking
[19:00:35] <Connor> jdh: Starting to think everything I'm reading about Webcam edge finders (most are used in Mach3 machines) are used as a PASSIVE device..
[19:01:20] <Connor> which means, it doesn't really matter which orientation the camera is in after you've centered it.
[19:01:53] <archivist> jsskangas, css for n axis machines needs adding / on my wish list
[19:03:27] <jdh> yeah. Should be able to auto-orient with a little code.
[19:04:08] <Connor> jdh: from what I've read on the list.. i think someone is trying to set it up to be "active" meaning once you find the center.. you tell the machine.. and it moves...
[19:04:47] <jdh> moves where?
[19:05:13] <archivist> and what is moving
[19:05:16] <jdh> I did a laser welder aiming thing years ago. Found the weld joint, moved the beam, offset, etc.
[19:05:23] <Connor> To center the part under the cross hairs from the edge. or whatever.
[19:05:52] <Connor> I guess.. I'm not sure.. Don't have one..
[19:06:01] <Connor> Trying to follow the thread..
[19:06:34] <jdh> I bought two for $10 on ebay a few years ago to try the emc2camview stuff. Had it embedded in axis, but then it got cold.
[19:07:09] <archivist> Connor, think of a 5 axis where the camera has to find the object and find the tool in the spindle :)
[19:07:25] <Connor> Ick.
[19:07:27] <Connor> No. :)
[19:07:51] <Jymmm> Anyone need a job? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/hr.asp
[19:08:02] <archivist> Connor, http://www.archivist.info/cnc/target.php
[19:08:48] <CaptHindsight> Hobbyking? any relation to Sofaking?
[19:09:05] <Connor> OKay. So, does anyone know if they're talking about active or passive in the USB Camera for edge finder mailing list thread ?
[19:09:11] <Jymmm> CaptHindsight: only if it flies and has a remote control
[19:11:18] <Jymmm> Is there an opensource variant of 2D AutoCad?
[19:11:38] <CaptHindsight> Connor: I believe they are discussing active. I'm working on something similar to detect edges and defects and move a tool, laser, nozzle etc over that area
[19:12:22] <Connor> Okay.. just found this.. Russell, the guy who started it said " Ummm... I was planning on using it by eye, with Camview for Linuxcnc"
[19:12:26] <Connor> so, that's passive.
[19:13:20] <archivist> I got to the point I knew I needed better optics, more axes and better grabbing code
[19:13:36] <CaptHindsight> my project is active
[19:13:37] <Connor> Russell is thinking of mounting it permanently, and using a tool or work offset..
[19:13:59] <CaptHindsight> 5+ axes
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[19:14:18] <sono> yea hey. we got invited in #beaglebone or sth
[19:14:28] <sono> i have seem the amazing PRUSS code from that guy from austria
[19:14:31] <sono> would like to thank him
[19:15:39] <skunkworks> Jymmm, what was the androd software for file sharing and such over the wifi?
[19:16:05] <Jymmm> skunkworks: AirDroid ?
[19:16:12] <skunkworks> sono, I don't think anyone knows what youa re talking about
[19:16:12] <Jymmm> there are a few
[19:16:15] <andypugh> sono: I think the PRU code was from Charles, rather than Michael. I may be wrong.
[19:16:52] <skunkworks> Jymmm, what you had mentioned to petefromten
[19:17:38] <Jymmm> skunkworks: You mean this? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sand.airdroid
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[19:18:13] <skunkworks> I will try it - thanks!
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[19:18:44] <sono> charles steinkuehler
[19:18:51] <sono> http://git.mah.priv.at/gitweb?p=emc2-dev.git;a=tree;f=src/hal/drivers/hal_pru_generic;h=1f70466089d6480ffb9e55338e1f88d53aeeb437;hb=refs/heads/arm335x-hal-pru-tasks
[19:19:43] <skunkworks> yes - charles is in the US - he did the beagle bone stuff on top of micheals xeonmai realtime/ unified build stuff.
[19:19:49] <sono> ah, ok
[19:20:17] <andypugh> mah is in .at though.
[19:20:39] <sono> well, we have a CNC machine at the hackspace currently running off an old PC board over the parallel port
[19:20:52] <sono> i didn't do a lot with that, didn't set it up or build it, but it uses linuxcnc
[19:20:55] <sono> so, again, thanks
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[19:31:23] <CaptHindsight> sono: where is your hackerspace?
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[19:42:09] <sono> CaptHindsight: w├╝rzburg, germany
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[20:05:23] <andypugh> You missed a recent LinuxCNC fest, in Germany.
[20:05:37] <andypugh> (Well, I am assuming you did, I wasn't there myself)
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[20:12:39] <skunkworks> isn't germany a tube train ride away? (and another train ride I suppose)
[20:13:17] <andypugh> Yes. Until recently I used to do day-trips for work on a fairly regular basis.
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[20:23:43] <jsskangas> archivist: still here?
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[22:37:19] <_DJ_> gn8
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