Nothing with high precision is gonna be cheap.
that can mean vastly different things to different people.
Tooling board is low-force
yeah I suppose if to you a quarter inch precision is high resolution.
That's a good start to the cheap-but-accurate equation
What resolution do you need?
Also, do you only need one, or do you need component supply security?
Because for a one-off "Lucky on eBay" is a good start, but you can't sell a product that way.
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i'm trying to make molds for stop motion puppets
so it'll have to be pretty high resolution
to the point where it looks smooth at the very least
OK, so this machine is only for your own use.
doesn't have to be particularly fast either
That helps a lot
I think that a standard NEMA 23 stepper setup, with an extruded aluminium frame but with lower than standard gearing might work for you
Smaller steppers would be fractionally cheaper, but only fractonally.
Now, if _I_ wanted to build a machine to do what you want to do, I wouldn't start with your budget.
what budget would you start with?
I did start with your budget 4 years ago, and ended up with a machine I intend to sell on.
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I think you can possibly reduce your current budget and make a machine that will teach you a lot.
[00:13:46] * Jymmm waves to andypugh
(and, it will make you some decent models, but slower than you might imagine)
oh sure slow is fine
saki`: I guess you are here to make stuff? Always bear in mind that a lot of us here have forgotten what stuff we wanted to make when we started.
yeah i'm specifically here to make stuff
last few years my dyspraxia's gotten pretty bad
makes it hard to do stuff with fine motor control for long periods of time
we make tools that make tools that make tools
so i'm looking to get back into working with my hands, kinda
go directly from a digital maquette to something i can work with
I will try to bear that in mind. My hobby morphed from an idea for a clock to wanting to have some really cool CNC tools. For me the machines are the hobby, and I have forgotten what it was I wanted to make.
i've been reading this: http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/
What are you making?
puppets for stop motion animation
i want to make the molds
OK, so why not use additive maching (3D printin?)
that i'll be using to cast the puppets
not high resolution enough
unless i spend a ton
3D print + hand work?
i was looking for something i could keep in the studio
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defeats the point, might as well do it from scratch then
writing, drawing, carving causes pain in my arm after maybe 5 minutes of work now
so i'm trying to cut down the discomfort a bit
Oh, no, really not. The difference between hand-modelling or printing + a bit of smoothing is actually pretty big.
I love CNC, but have you considered just going 100% CGI?
100% wouldn't look as good with the resources i have available to me
If you shifted focus, it might.
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I am no expert on CGI. (Quite the opposite) but it does seem to be very scriptable (and very intersting).
yeah rendering things within a certain time frame is pretty darn hard
if i wanted to just let something develop over several years then maybe
main objective with the CNC are these:
[00:25:06] <saki`> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg
It seems parts of the CGI work flow could be "shared" on the cloud.
So, if you wanted to get in to making your visions appear using software, then there is the option of hacking the software. On a fundamental level if you can calculate the value of every pixel then CGI can be identical to photography.
there are lots of problems to consider with subsurface scattering, glossy surfaces, etc.
Oh, yes, I do enough CAD renndering to be aware of the subleties.
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well either way
So there is a big difference between a model for a CNC part and a full render?
stop motion will give me an aesthetic i'll be happy with
We are wandering away from the subject here, but arguably subsurface scattering is easier to do in software than by hoping to cast in the right material?
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yeah you'd be surprised what all can be achieved with resin and a few different pigments and fillers
we make furniture out of paper mache and sawdust
saki`: I don't think Aardman are using CGI plastacine. I acknowledge the fact of the aesthetic
aardman's doing what i do
So, let us get back to your original question.
(rather than trying to point you at different ways to do the same thing)
[00:31:49] <saki`> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg
<-- this is largely the objective
So you need a system that the can produce a part needing as little finish work as possible? A mold seems like a good thing.
I do rather think that that looks a lot better suited to addditve (3D printing) mnufacture than conventional (subtractive) machining
it is better suited to 3d printing
But 3D needs significant finish work.
it's just that i can't get the resolution i suppose within a reasonable amount (not several thousand dollars)
partly because you will build a 3D model of what you want. Not waht you don't want.
well i'll still be making a mold out whatever i print out
A mould is a model of what you don't want. And there are a number of steps between part and mould, and some of them have no obvious software path
CaptHindsight: Ye online?
There are well-developed software paths from 3D model to 3D printed part. The path between 3D model and mould is less well trodden. Personally I am from the old-school subtractive machining of parts modellling area. When I design a machine component I tend to start with a basic shape and remove machinable-shaped chunks to get what I need.
So, my design-flow is rather subtractive. I rather susoect that your modelling flow is based on adding the parts you do want to the 3D model?
You might find that it makes sense to print models, polish them, then make moulds from them
i can make the 3d model of the negative mold in two parts
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i'd be doing the same with a plastiline sculpture
I don't think you could cut molds for those with a plain 3 axis device.
if the nose is slightly turned up i think it's okay, no?
as long as there's no over hang
you should build one anyway. If nothing else, you can use it to build a different one.
yeah i could probably just do that separately
ignore the hair
heck the head's not really much of a concern
it's just the faces i want to be able to do
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saki`: Where in the world are you
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hair's just a looped guitar string dragged through clay
and then cleaned up with a needle
Sorry, hit the wrong key
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What's the URL of your local eBay? (I tried www.ebay.pk :-)
I would expect your import costs from China or India to be lower than mine
no local ebay
i just use aliexpress
or alibaba when i'm importing from china
And why not
paypal's not available here
so i suppose there's that
a bit circular really
Have you looked at the CNC engravers on aliexpress?
yeah the shipping's not going to be very nice on those
plus i wouldn't know what to trust
and parts are easier to deal with as far as customs go
i've played around with an arduino before
[00:59:15] <andypugh> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-110V-CNC-3020T-DJ-upgrade-fom-CNC-3020-CNC-3020T-Router-Engraver-Milling-Drilling/904552009.html
so this slowed down would work?
Close to your budget
With very overlapping paths it would probably work as-is
if i can get something with a grand that'll give me exactly what i need with few hassles i'd be willing to do that
So, same axis speeds, but very many more passes. But you probably still need to hand-polish
i was concerned about the drill
(I don't see the die-polishing businesses here going bust, the CNC revolution just means that they have more dies to polish)
I don't think that machine will be your final solution.
well if i'm going to pay that much i might as well pay more.
and get a better investment
I imagine that you will modify it from the day it arrives (installling LinuxCNC for a start) and then you will learn its limitations, and work out what you really want, and how to achieve it. Perhaps the spindle will be upgraded. Perhaps the spindle will become a 3D printing head. Or laser, or electron beam. Who can say? But you won't know until you start, and that looks like a decent start
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why would you put an electron beam?
My first CNC had a tiny budget. This was good, because I wasn;t too upset when I realised that it wasn't what I wanted. (I think it is a cheap Indian copy of a cheap Chinese copy of a cheap German lathe)
I don't think anyone has used selective electron beam sintering yet, but it might work. I threw it in as a random future technology (I have done some electron beam welding research and it is an amazing process. 1m thick welds in a single pass with no weld-prep or filler.
does it work harden the joint?
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just reading the backlog... what size are the figures? 6x6x? inch or?
You may want to make saki` s client go "piong" by mentioning his name
The sample look better than GGG, bit about the same as SLS
Sorry, I think I mean scanned-laser-polymerisation, whatever that abbrieviates to
did saki` post a link with an example?
[01:53:37] <andypugh> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6SaFVTipdyg/Tad-WCsz-oI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Y6ppFsTTrFc/s1600/Mail+Man+face+part+3+07.jpg
looks like head, + eyes + face then clay mouth for speech.
(Actually rather an interesting field of endevour)
DLP or SLA won't need any polishing
Can you do SLP or SLA for $600? (In Pakistan)
Err. I meant DLP. What would SLP be, and is it patented yet?
SLA is out of patent
a chinese galvo setuo is ~$100 and a bluray laser is ~25
+ z-axis and a vat with a PTFE film
Do the galvos do vector or raster
So, it's basically G-code>
(I am wondering if I should finish my dedicated-raster config)
the galvo inputs are usually +-10V
Input is bitmap, output is motor position + intensity. No G-code
there is also a stage lighting/control serial interface that they use
there is something creepy about those puppet part pics
looks like it's carved from bone
I went to a work-related trade-show at work. All our suppliers showing their toys in our conference room.
There was some EtherCAT, but also a lot of CAN and XCP-over-ethernet
(I don't even know what XCP _is_ and it appears to be my job)
funny how the car has become place for complex forms of networks
moreso than the shop floor
[02:12:53] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCP_(Protocol)
I wonder how Open it is?
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Vector had an interesting demo they were levitating a ball-bearing.
Basically a prox in the base, and a solenoid above. It looked pretty trivial to achieve in LinuxCNC
The fun challenge would be to do it with video feedback.
But. time to sleep.
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[02:44:44] <t12> http://25.media.tumblr.com/f498cda0020d922ad5e807e7fa03d382/tumblr_mupdqyn2jD1qdkeiao1_500.jpg
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oh shoot sorry
i was reading and lost track of time
CaptHindsight, i was looking at the form1
but light cured resin would be ideal for sure
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hum i took apart and rebuilt a mitutoyo dial height gauge
not as hard as i expected
except i didnt rebuild the movement
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t12 taking things to bits is a sure sign :)
it was all grimed up and rough so kinda to the garbage if not fixed
how accurate? who knows!
t12 someone told me I would never get married, because the first thing I would do is take her to bits to see how she worked
as long as you get the springs set right the accuracy should be ok
seems that on that unit
to get the dial off you have to pull the glass and hand
which isnt so hard but not so easy also
then ?? happens to the movement from the force
likely some special tiny hand puller is the correct tool
I have hand pullers :)
one day i'll be able to make the hand pullers on demand!
after 40 years of tooling up heh
most of the work can be done from the rear in a lot of dti dials
thats what i expected
anything i say at this point will be entirely inappropriate
but the screws that mount the sorta.. frame to the slide
are under the dial
i'm considering quitting my main job
not sure what to think of this move
there are multi finger tools to remove glasses
in the job climate, I would not quit a job
this one the bezel just kinda prys off
same job 7 years in jan
job is going nowhere
skills are actually going backwards now i think
get a new job before you quit
i'm pulled too many directions at once, so now its been years of only doing a shit job at everything
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yeah i have another one lined up but its in unreliable startup world
then they go ...oh shit, we better offer a better wage
last time that was approached the boss said it would be
'unethical' to give me a raise
(re: not giving other people ones too)
shares in the business then :)
i could rot there till i retire if i wanted
which most people seem to think i'm crazy to NOT want to do
I imagine a uni job having more variation than out in industry
there is def alot of variety
longest job i've ever held, so no idea what quitting something like that will be like
want to move careers away from sysad/it type stuff towards more engineering/motion control/prototyping kind of work
likely i'm just restless and want to make something new happen
or just move departments
i'm in 3!
my discovery is that there isnt really much moving, its more like piling more on
t12: Tell them to get you Cisco AND Juniper certified
oh none of that will ever happen
the employment is directly from federal life science research grants
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Ok, go into research then =)
i'm not worried about acquring new work really
research is awful
life science postdoc == 20 years of training, 30-40k/year earning capability when its over
only room for sharks at the top
also i have zero degrees
but yeah complain/complain
t12 fleabay 250851255622
thats the retail price, I have more than one
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there are other devices that need the whole bezel off as they are a press that deforms the plastic enough to shrink the rim
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[07:19:36] <t12> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdY-p5g7HS4
dang this guys shop
like this 370808822282
ya thats like the tool from longislandindicator
problem is bezel fitting method used sometimes
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I like the comment under the image http://longislandindicator.com/p30.html
alot of interesting info there
someone bothered to write it all down!
7i76e and 8i20 have arrived
time to be responsible and not hurry to use!
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two fleabay retrofits 141099696763 141099563938
but they don't fit on my kitchen table..
and another 400592266598
rearrange your shed http://www.collection.archivist.info/Dads_Shed.JPG
if only i had concrete floors and a forklift
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general wiring question: if the dc amplifier has direct pwr input, then the mesa board only has to send enable, disable signals?
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what is it amplifying
48v dc 15A
that I believe is the supply, not what it is amplifying
15mm thick spruce panel, http://www.botsmark-tra.se/InteriorSprucePanel.jpg
is lasercuttable sans knots
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the only power lines in/out from the amplifer are HV (in) Motor (out)
what is HV
thats it, the reset are voltage ref, tach, enable, enable+/-, fault, reset
HV is high voltage in
how do you set the speed and direction
well there is an encoder, too. still trying to figure all this out
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im trying to understand when the amplifier would send out 80V/10A to a 12&24V motors
when = why
you would only do that on peaks, most of the time it is within normal amounts
that is the continuous rate
motors are happy with short term overload
the old board was so complex, that I am trying to make sure nothing gets missed
there are places on the board to run the 15+/- to the amplifier, maybe I need to add that in?
i guess with tach and encoder, that could be signal enough?
you have not mentioned yet how the speed and direction are input to the amplifier/drive
honestly, all I can do is show you the amp tech sheet and tell you what is connected. http://www.copleycontrols.com/Motion/pdf/4122.pdf
if you can open that up, I can tell you what ports are wired. I kind of think an additional wire will be run from the mesa card to the 15 +/-
speed and direction through the encoder?
Anybody done frequency measurements with mesa cards? The THCAD card claims it the FPGA firmware can count on chip, anyone played with that?
an encoder input should be able to count pulses
you could have the encoder reset on an index pulse, similar to a "gate" on a frequency counter
Yeah, much overhead though, or is that also done in firmware?
on a mesa card the encoder counter is on the fpga
probably a few MHz max count rate
you'd want the gating to be quite precsie, also on the fpga. that would probably require new HDL for the fpga
Ah, well then the velocity output is exactly what I need.. I don't actually need to reset on an index pulse, I want to measure a temperature using a A-F converter
I'm going to have a play with 3d printing, repstrapping my mill, so I need to measure the temperature of the head and the bed
ok... normal xtal clocks are good to maybe 50ppm, but if you are doing temperature measurement you will not need >5 digit precision anyway :)
the thermal time-constants are long, so in principle you can transmit temperature information with a slow signal
Yeah I'm contemplating using a uC to do the measurements and send it serially, or use IO's on the mesa. Using two encoders wastes a lot of pins
Could even do bitbanged i2c to the uC over a couple of general mesa IO pins
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depends on what mesa model you have, some have 96 i/os which should be enough.
thats cool. i am going to millstrap my reprap with a pneumatic rotory pencil
I did extruder temperature control and measurement over the parallel port - you've maybe seen that in my blog
teacup firmware and an arduino is all it takes
awallin, I might, what's the url?
first three links there anyway
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hadn't seen that, I'll give it a read thanks
MacGalempsy, the ref inputs
I thought the ref was to monitor the voltage
perfect then, appreciated you clearing that up for me
if you read the velocity section you will see
between putting together the wiring diagram and trying to go through all the manuals, it can get overwhelming.
so I also appreciate the patience
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awallin, I like the sim_extruder.comp :)
had to test things in sim-mode at some point...
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does anyone know if the linuxcnc version 2.5.3 can be installed on top of the xenomia kernel
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2.5.3 might be 'officially' supported only on 10.04 with rtai
okay so i need to do the isntallation like described on your page
my notes are from 2012/12, so quite old. there was a new "ubc3" page somewhere..
do you know what the plans for linuxcnc are
wil is stick with ubuntu which rt kernel will be used?
that might be the best instructions available now if you need something newer than 2.5.3
there is work that makes it build on: rtai, xenomai, preempt-rt, and plain vanilla kernel
you can run RTAI on newer kernels
it will most probably make its way into 2.6, with some unknown schedule
have you seen the .debs?
[13:41:47] <CaptHindsight> http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc/rtai-for-3.4-prerelease/
did anyone compare rtai vs xenomai on the same hardware? latency numbers etc
here are the instructions
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okay i will try both thanks
awallin: RTAI 5-10uS, PREEMPT-RT ~30uS not sure where the xenomai for x86 is hiding but should fall somewhere in between
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tested on a few mainboards
ok, do you have those results, histograms, etc online somewhere? interesting data
[13:52:37] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?NewRTInstall
not sure if this is the current howto on xenomai for x86 and Linuxcnc
mah's page might be more uptodate
awallin: not online, we tested a few boards here while we were working on updating RTAI to newer kernels
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hows things JT?
not bad a bit cold out so we canceled the motorcycle ride for today
playing with QCad CAM atm
I used to ride a bunch years ago...had about a dozen different sportybikes...
any luck with it?
actually if you mean QCad CAM yes I'm getting it to work for profiles
2d of course?
many things I do are simple profiles and I hope to make it work with my plasma
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I use and enjoy Sheetcam predominately for all the simple 2d and 2.5d stuff. Pretty powerful with simulations and runs perfect evey time.
yes, I have Sheetcam as well but if I can skip a step and generate the CAM from QCad that saves me time
Does it do the V-carving and rigid tapping etc that sheetcam does?
[14:28:32] -!- Tom_garage [Tom_garage!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
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what do you mean by V-carving? How does Sheetcam handle rigid tapping?
jthornton what were you using before trying QCad?
I have a software to generate rigid tapping G code
I use OneCNC and Sheetcam
Tom_itx: you forgot: Tom_Outdoor_Emporium_food_court_and_petting_zoo
but for simple, fast is better
That's NOT what she said.
SHeetcam now has a v-carve feature which allows a CNC router to vary Z height to allow a v shaped cutter to make caligraphic text
Jymmm: read the reviews "SOS mode only does SOO"
ah, very cool
CaptHindsight: Who cares, look at the crown on it
Jymmm, it's still not echoing back to my client. reading the logs to follow along :)
The tapping cycles are in there too which allow for rigid and semi rigid tapping functions.
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PetefromTn, does Sheetcam generate proper rigid tapping G code for LinuxCNC?
[14:32:19] -!- Tom_itx [Tom_itx!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
CaptHindsight: Doubt that could be legal
let's try yet another server
Dunno have not tried it yet because my VMC is still waiting for me to install the damn spindle encoder LOL But yeah it did work for the RF45 pretty good.
Jymmm: they should call it a reamer or something toolish
or pocket hole maker
CaptHindsight: assault crown isn't ugly sounding enough? lol
CaptHindsight: just new definition for it is all =)
One nice feature of Sheetcam I enjoy is that whenever I go back to a drawing that is already in sheetcam in my cad software as soon as I go back to sheetcam it says there is an updated drawing and asks me if I want to use it. Then I click yes and it automatically updates everything with my machining operations.
Not exactly an integrated solution but works really well so far.
CaptHindsight: Zombies can't read SOS from SOO anyway =)
Jymmm: are zombies considered more alive than dead?
Just watched World War Z last night. That was definitely a nail biter...
yet more dead than alive
If a virus/bacteria is alive, then sure
[14:37:35] -!- dosas [dosas!~dosas@p4FEBDE13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
not sure what their official designation is
dead man walking?
offiicial designation: Target practice LOL
CaptHindsight: i'm trying to compile linuxcnc for rtai but do you know what path i have to give for--with-realtime
dosas: if you really want to compile from scratch....
[14:42:52] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL
no not rtai
i used the .deb packages you recommended
sorry, there's a howto on the linuxcnc as well ...
[14:44:12] <dosas> http://static.mah.priv.at/public/html/common/UnifiedBuild.html
[14:44:43] -!- Servos4ever [Servos4everemail@example.com] has joined #linuxcnc
no, we stopped reading those after getting too much misinformation
there's a howto on the wiki
okay i will search for this
can't find it now, andypugh pasted it a few days ago here
[14:54:57] <CaptHindsight> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Installing_to_Ubuntu_10_04_or_8_04_from_source
maybe this ^^
[15:02:13] -!- pfred1 [pfred1!~pfred1@unaffiliated/pfred1] has joined #linuxcnc
The_Ball: its possible to make a config with just encoder "A" pins so it only take a single pin to do a frequency counter
guess what i just picked up at a yard sale
if i stick them all together it might be a hard
I got a precision gauge block set
but it is missing 2 blocks
still for $18 I couldn't pass it up
files some steel to size for the other two
actually you can get spares
archivist these things came from the Army and there are like warnings on it don't break the polyethyelene seal etc. etc
I mean they're serius instruments
I got an ex army set, exceedingly workshop used grade
these seem to be in pretty good shape to me
what is left of the set
now you need a comparator and a temperature controlled room
I'm always looking for setup blocks that's probably what I'll end up using them for
for the price i can afford to
they're real nice chunks of steel
there are some block holders that are worth looking out for
what a rough set looks like http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_13_comparator/IMG_1678.JPG
this set has these rods that I guess go through the blocks in order to extend them
Nice man. I picked up a largish granite surface plate from the Y12 area a few years back. It is real nice and heavy and has certs with it they all cleared the radiation checks and apparently were used in the inspection areas. Nice stuff and it is what I check all my flat surfaces against.
archivist they'd work mine are like long bars
I'll pop a shot of it real quick BRB
rods or bars?
but I am a sucker for any thing that measures in a wooden box, if I have the cash available at the time
yeah I know how you feel.
those don't look very certified
might have been 50 years ago
I had a neighbor who I was friendly with that moved away awhile back. One day she came over and told me that her father passed away and that she had a whole bunch of tools and instruments he used. She asked me if I was interested in them. I said yeah how much and what does he have? She said Oh no you can have it all for free we just know you are kind of a tool guy and thought he would want you to have them.
the glass ones to the top of the picture are interesting, for testing a 1" micrometers
this is what i just got http://i.imgur.com/wpXgLtq.jpg
PetefromTn when I was moving I passed on a basement filled with machinists equipment because i didn't want to move it
this place was packed though floor to ceiling
I got several boxes of cool stuff including some carving knives and equipment, lots of tiny files with curved and different shaped ends, many many measuring tools, lots of magnification stuff like those old headsets with dual lenses and all kinds of cool stuff. I was in hog heaven.
but I'd been moving my stuff and i just couldn't move more then
pfred1: Where was I when I needed ya LOL.
never say no, just make more trips
every time I brought a handful of stuff up to the girl running the sale she said oh give me $3
I even got a couple of dremel tools with lots of bits and a flex shaft as well as some older dremel fixtures that hold the motor for you.
archivist I'd already made like 50 trips and i was moving over 200 miles away
[15:26:00] -!- Felix29 [Felix29!Felix@c-71-193-105-131.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #linuxcnc
some of those trips cost like a grand too if I had to rent a U Haul
I also got a bunch of german high quality layout tools like scribes, compasses, etc.
I wasn't moving around the corner if you know what I mean
it was a 4 hour drive
I cannot imagine what it would cost to buy all that stuff many hundreds if not thousands of dollars. I was tripping over myself thanking her for her generosity.
PetefromTn it happens just like lightning strikes
She just said that knowing her father he would have been pleased that it went to someone who would actually use them for what they were intended instead of just pawning it for drugs or other crap.
when I die there are going to be a ton OK many tons of tools just lying there
someone is going to end up with them too
pfred1: yeah I guess, it has only happened to me once tho unfortunately LOL
pfred1: I'll give you my number and address dude LOL
[15:28:28] -!- JesusAlos [JesusAlosfirstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #linuxcnc
a lot of old folks do sell their stuff off when they get really old
Actually it has happened twice to me. When I first got this VMC here I was pretty broke and trying to get it working as I had a couple honest to goodness machining jobs wanting me to make stuff for them. A nice fellow donated me about a dozen different Cat40 toolholders to help get me started.
I've thought about rigging my house with a deadman so if I croak it all goes sky high
so. i was informed that i dont need to spend nearly as much for a router that is suitable for pcb work. that makes me feel much better
With all the nastiness and violence in the world it is nice to know that there are still truly kindhearted and honest people out there willing to lend a hand and are truly generous.
PetefromTn I like being on the other end of the deal when people are pawning tools for drugs
why you deal drugs?
I've got some OK tools that way for decent prices
no but i deal in cash
Yeah I got your meaning just bustin chops.
Looking for any economic PC compatible with linuxcnc
oh, i also want to design new housings for my projects
I just made a cheesy housing for my new PSU
I used the Atom 525 for my Cincinatti Arrow 500 VMC retrofit and it works awesome.
out of scrap wood
PetefromTn Atoms rock what kind of latency do you get?
Can't remember it was decent but I am using the Mesa cards 5i25/7i77 combo so apparently that is not as much of an issue anyways.
JesusAlos I use an AMD X2 I got out of a thrift store for $5 it's OK
pfred1: yes but i mean like custom parts for mechanics too
I need a new computer tower for my design computer and I am looking on cragislist right now for a cheapie. There is a nice HP Pavillion elite with a 1tb drive and 8g ram quad core now for less than $200.00
kde looks like
pfred1: what board is that?
PetefromTn I got 2 Pavillions for next to nothing browsing around I'm on one of them right now
PetefromTn an Asus Bianca
You like the pavillions then?
it is a 2.5GHz dual core X2
PetefromTn well they all had little problems which is why I got them so cheap
one the RAM popped out so I had to reseat it
lurk on your local freecycle too
[15:35:43] -!- Nick001 [Nick001!~Nick001@188.8.131.52] has joined #linuxcnc
Here is the one I am considering.... http://knoxville.craigslist.org/ele/4141479397.html
that was the AMD this one is a core2 and it has a broken VGA jack on the motehrboard
slapping a video card in fixed it
how is it broken?
it needed it too
but i paid a buck for this box
you can just buy a cheapo video card sor 20 usd
they thought the whole motherboard was fried in it
I am having a problem with my current desktop in my office, it is also an HP, slim form factor older business machine.
yeah so HP does seem to come down with problems
I tried two different monitors and it kinda locks up the video.
this one is kinda old but it worked great until recently.
but for what i paid for the 2 i have I can't really complain
but yeah my main goal is to route pcbs, other stuff is secondary
Whaddya think of that one I linked to?
I've had really good latency with HP DC7800 and 7900.
This is a 9220y.. Not intending to ever use it to run a machine just want a nice fast design and internet computer for the office.
[15:38:48] <kwallace> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310732876724
PetefromTn it's a little steep for a used machine
pfred1: Yeah I kinda thought that too. Was thinking of offering $170.00 or so..
it does have a terr drive and 8GB ram tho..
PetefromTn I'm looking it up to see what it really is
doesn't sound promising
read the link
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it is an AMD X4 AMD does pretty good with RTAI
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ATI gfx ah I've had problems with that
yeah I have actually read similar online but it seems to me that is only when comparing it to other offerings of the time when buying new. used it is not as much of an issue if it has my needs covered adequately...
this box I tried the ISO live image with ATI it froze up Nvidia it worked
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so I'd have to blame ATI there
all I did was swap the video card and reboot
it is fair to say I'm not the world's biggest ATI fan
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so you might be up for changing the video in order to run
just want a nice looking and quick desktop for as cheap as possible right now so I can get back to desig work. I have a nice built in cabinet to draw over the weekend here.
oh you're not running LinuxCNC on it?
then it'll be fine
the rest of the stuff on CL right now is crap.
hit some thrift stores
that is where I got my X2
nope no LCNC ever just a nice office computer with reasonably fast processor for design.
Sometimes just changing screen resolution or timing will get a PC to boot up, so it's not so much what video card you have.
one thing I will say for ATI is dual monitor works out of the box
pcw_home, do you need to recompile the mesa firmware to change the config in that manner?
actually the computer boots up fine, if I remove power from the monitor and plug it back in sometimes it will come up but most of the time it just powers back down automatically inside the monitor.
yeah that would be sweet I actually have two nice 24" flatscreens here for that.
when I blew the dust bunnies out of this system and hooked it back up I had some monitor flakiness I plugged the one jack back in and it straightened out
so just unplug and plug your monitor back in at the card it might help
what one jack? I tried two different monitors and it was the same story so it must be the computer somehow.
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I know this PC the onboard has broken solder joints on the jack
Tried that and installed a PCI nvidia card and it did the same thing only after awhile.
could be the socket then
could be bad caps too
at first I thought I had it fixed with the new video card but after a week or two it started again.
If the PC sends a signal that the monitor doesn't like, the monitor will usually go to sleep to protect itself. That is why changing the X settings in xorg.conf can help.
look really closely at the caps by the socket
see if any of them have a bulge on the top
frustrating because I had the computer setup nice with all my favorite software.
even a slight push up on an electrolytic is bad
could be the PSU too how old is it?
yeah that is probably what it is, I blew the dust out of it regularly too and tried to keep it clean all the time.
any PSu over 5 years old could be going bad
Honestly I bet it IS the PSU, I was told that the video card I installed which was installed before I got it draws a lot of heat.
electrolytics just don't last that long
even good ones it depends how they specced it when they built it how close to the edge it is
the PSU is kinda wierd, not your typical screw in box but it pivots on metal tabs and is removable easily.
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but I've seen some shady stuff inside PC PSUs
as is the PCI setup, just has a neat bracket that goes over and holds them down.
latches in place.
Apparently it is a business computer so I guess they tried to make it tool less R and R....
they really don't build a whole lot of headroom into PSUs as far as overspeccing parts go
like they throw 16V caps on the 12V rail
yeah the PSU I bought for my VMC I got is a monster just in case LOL.
it works but just barely
a couple years down the road just barely can turn into it doesn't work too
what I'm saying is sooner than it should
you can have an old stereo from the 70s and it's PSU will still work
but they built those with more headroom
so even though the caps are half gone in them today the half left still does the job
I have a Denon AVR3000 AV amplifier that I use to run my surround sound. I bought it when I was in the Coast Guard at a PX in Guam. It still kicks ass to this day almost 20 years later.
yup and a 20 year old computer still has a fair chance of working today too
but the new stuff? it doesn't last
its built not to of course.
yes they engineer them razer thin now
[15:56:34] tjb1s_brain is now known as tjb1
if the ysave 20 cents on a cap but they're making 100,000 units it adds up
[15:57:07] -!- Crack123 [Crack123!~IceChat7@184.108.40.206] has joined #linuxcnc
so they toss you the cheaper cap
whaddya think is a fair offer for that HP?
I kinda like it..
Crack123: Hello crack.
yeah they are stylish it looks a lot like the 2 I have
I like stylish LOL
mine are almost identical twins
how old are they?
they were made 2 years apart
one is a 2007 the other is a 2009
I'm on the 2009 now
He said it is a couple years old so I am hoping 09/10
so what say ye?
remember i paid $1 and $5 for mine
does anyone have some time for a short LinuxCNC / Ethercat conversation ?
well that is what a broke old computer goes for
yeah I know....worthless.
Crack123 ask if anyone can help we will
this one works tho.
I wanna offer $150.00 but who knows..
well what should i tell u, first time using Linux, totaly screwed in just try to Install Ethercat Master hehe
PetefromTn go look it over and when they're not looking jiggle the VGA jack on the box real hard and when it stops working then get a better price
LOL now that's not nice dude...
neither is asking that much for a used PC
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yeah but it is a STYLISH used PC LOL
Crack123 Ethercat Master?
what is that?
Maybe if I offer $150.00 he will meet me somewhere in middle.
allowed to post links?
yeah dunno what ethercat is?
[16:01:52] <Crack123> http://www.etherlab.org/en/ethercat/index.php
its like connection Beckhoff Hardware to Linuxcnc
oh this is tricky
[16:02:16] -!- syyl-- [syyl--!~syyl@p4FD10B37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #linuxcnc
Crack123 I've been running Linux since 1995 so I've seen a few things
built LinuxCNC from Git too
well i just saw some ppl who use Ethercat Drives or for example the Beckhoff Modules with it so it should be possible :(
OK so tell us what you've done so far
were you able to download the source tree for instance?
well as Docu say me, installed Unbuntu Linux 10.40 or smth like thos
i have no clue about Linus :D
me either he's a joker
i following this :
[16:04:42] <Crack123> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EtherCatDriver
a bit Below the installation
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ah so here they're telling yo uto get a tarball snapshot
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i got this folder with the files on my desktop now
but this untar thing ?!
yes but they're telling yo uspecifically where you need to put it
yeah untarring it won't be a problem
but lets put the tarball where it belongs first
u see more then me it seems
actually that tar command looks wring
i found 2
one with # and one with $
it should be tar xjvf
yeah this to
[16:07:03] -!- terabyte- [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #linuxcnc
but how can the terminal know where it is ?
oh OK jusat out of order it is OK
you have to navigate to the file
its on desktop atm
but I'd just unpack it where it belongs
copying it after you've untarred it works but it is kind of goofy
you can redirect tar too but again goofy
just put the tar archive where it belongs and untar it there
would be happy if untaring would work
let's figure out what the exact path of the directory you need to pupack it to is on your system
# cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
we need to replace <source-path-of-LinuxCNC> wit hthe real path
do this find / -name ethercat
it is overkill but it'll find it
still at untaring i put the command in it jumps to next line but i dont see any change
it should have scrolled a bunch of file names unless you forgot the v
i did # tar xjvf ethercat-1.5.2.tar.bz2
but still the folder is unpacked manualy when i click on it
yes it should be all unpacked now
but you have to put it inside another source tree in order to build it
another whole structure of files and folders
well this src path dont exist atm
# cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
yes you're going to have to install the LinuxCNC source
well <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2 won't exist
i mean after the source path ofc
but src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/ may on ytour machine somewhere
there is src
did you run find / -name ethercat
only on desktop rest is not enough rights
OK do sudo -i
and give it your password
now run the find command
you have more rights now
all rights in fact
it shows me 2 files in the folder what i downloaded before
OK so you do not have the source for LinuxCNC installed
whatever it is think not hehe
try this aptitude search linuxcnc
we'll see if we can't get the other stuff you need installed
you are looking for a package with the name source attached to it
so you could run aptitude search linuxcnc | grep -i src
oh man this is tough
I'm not using a LinuxCNC machine ATM
it isn't that bad
me either hehe
oh you're using ssh?
well i started on mach3 with some paralellport card but i want to go big higher
yeah a remote shell to another system
hmm not sure what u mean exactly?
you can run Linux over a network connection
nah it runs on another pc
like you can have a terminal up on one system logged into another system
and do stuff in that terminal just like you were at the other system
its a external pc only for this atm
mach3 parallel port is da debil.
it really is handy
yeah LinuxCNC owns Mach3 for performance
much easier stiill xD
sure Mach3 is easier it only does one thing
my problem is now iam missing this source ?
LinuxCNC does lots of things better
you need the main source tree in order to compile this module you have
you have a leaf yo uneed the whole tree
its 2 times harder to get this working if u dont speak realy good english to
yeah I'm American so I only speak English sorry
not realy sure where i get this source code
well the package manager should have it
thought its already in this version
well you don't automatically get all source code
but you can get it all
well even that isn't technically correct with LinuxCNC but hopefully we won't run into that situation
or have they found the missing kernel source?
when I went looking for it no one knew where it was
there are two source trees with LinuxCNC LinuxCNC itself and the kernel source tree
well packet manager shows me nothing to install so it did all seems only the Linux update
there is no linuxcnc src or dev package?
If LinuxCNC is installed, the source is available form Synaptic in linuxcnc-dev, or you can look in git http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=summary
kwallace so aptitude should find it too
Crack123 do this aptitude update
there is nothing to update
all updated already
OK then aptitude search linuxcnc
heck just do aptitude install linuxcnc-dev
forget it kwallace told us the package name
i just understand *zzZZzzZ*
Crack123 run aptitude install linuxcnc-dev in your window you did the sudo -i in
yes it will have the permissions to execute that command
Crack123 we're going to give you a crash course in running Linux
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so its done
OK now run dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
well iam from electric automation that should be possible^^
that will list every file that install just installed
but we're only interested in the ethercat ones so
run dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev | grep ethercat
this is called filtering output
now take that tarball and copy it to there
shows me not installed
hmmm maybe you have to put it into drivers?
this page says me to copy it to src/hal etc
but this path dont exist
or i cant see it
well have yo udetermined from the first dpkg command where the source tree is?
that aptitude command installed something didn't it?
you need to put that tarball in there where it belongs then uppack it
# cp -av <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>/src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/debian ethercat-1.5.2
so go as deep as you can with src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master/
this should be the path
i can go src
then no hal
yes but this part you have to replace <source-path-of-LinuxCNC>
[16:39:50] -!- Guest16559 [Guest16559!~vDRAGON@220.127.116.11] has joined #linuxcnc
just spoke with the guy with that HP. He siad he had an offer of $175.00 so if I will go higher it is mine regardless of price increment LOL I may go look at it at 5pm when he gets back home today.
PetefromTn $175.00 almost sounds like real money to me
how new is that CPU?
quad core sounds kind of old for AMD now
they're like on 8 cores now aren't they?
yeah it IS real money, MY real money LOL. But unfortunately there is nothing remotely as nice locally for any cheaper.
he said it is like three years old.
yeah in computer years that is like one foot in the grave
[16:41:57] -!- Guest16559 [Guest16559!~vDRAGON@18.104.22.168] has parted #linuxcnc
2 years is aged
yeah but yours are 07 ad 09 LOL
but i paid a dollar
they were dead when I got them too
I'm like the PC necromancer over here
bringing them back from the dead
btw what it the Linuxcnc source path...?
Crack123 you should be able to determine that from the dpkg -L command
LOL that's hilarous.
Crack123 do this dpkg -L | less
then hit the space bar and try to figure out where the actual source tree is
because there will be documentation man pages and who knows what else with that dev package
but we want the location of the actual source files
you'll see a lot of files with a .c extension etc.
you want to find a path that most resembles this src/hal/drivers/ethercat/master
as much of that as you can find and we'll make the rest
if we have to make ethercat/master under src/hal/drivers that is OK
now i know why not many ppl use this
no it isn't just clicking yes buttons all of the time
its like programm ur own OS
but when you do stuff like this it can be very powerful too
some times its enough for me if stuff work, dont need to know how :(
powerful enough to shoot your foot off
like when Windows just doesn't do one thing you want it to
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well since Win7 i havent 1 problem
Tom_itx I can't say I've never done it but I've gone out of my way in order to do it
iam just confused
all this docus are like download file a then yvxyfeqfq then youre rdy
Crack123 so was the guy who wrote the code but he got past it
all you need to do is put the tar archive where it belongs
it isn't hard
you have the location on your machine now
its just hard if the path dont exist
well you have enouhg of it you can make the rest
cya guys talk later.
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Crack123 I'd tell you exactly where to copy the file but I cannot see what is on your system
wanna use teamviewer or smth?
cause i have no focking clue rly
well usually with Linux we use pastebin
so someone remotely can see a bunch of output and try to make sense of it
well what should i post u xD
aptitude install pastebinit
then pastebinit dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
and I'll have a look at it
hm cant read from dpkg
pastebinit - dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev
apparently pastebinit needs the - to read stdin
I don't use the stuff much myself
so its next line blinking
i bet that stuff i wanna do dont work with it anyways lol
im sad i want a mill/router so bad :-p
pfred1: its all your fault :-P
tandoori I have a mill
OK you need to redirect std out
let me figure out how pastebinit does that
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this feels like to dunno fly a space shuttle to the moon
Crack123 wait until you get to compiling this is nothing
ah pipe it
OK dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev | pastebinit
that should work
ctrl+c the blinking cursor
then it should give yo ua URL
give me the URL
getting many files in a list
yes dpkg -L linuxcnc-dev lists every file in the linuxcnc-dev package on your system
this line ?
between dev and paste
we need to find where there we have to install the tar archive you have
then we should get to the good stuff
[17:11:08] <Crack123> http://pastebin.com/NB49wx4E
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that's it huh?
well i closed terminal between it
i'm trying to compilev lcnc on ubuntu 12.04 with rtai kernel but when i configure it says it wants the path to the rt --with-realtime=<path> anyone knows which path to give here
that isn't it
we need the src package
well i was close to shut down pc and throw HD onto wall :p
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try this aptitude install linuxcnc-src
me or dosa
dosas I think it wants the path to RTAI
but where is my rtai
to the image or the headers
or somewhere else
I imagine the source
the server i have my notes on from when I did it is off now
I built LinuxCNC on Debian
which is a lot like doing it on Ubuntu
I also did it on Gentoo but that was so so
I missed a critical kernel compile flag and it didn't work 100%
I almost got it to work though :)
I finally emailed RTAI and they straightened me out
that drove me nuts!
good to know
yeah if you have a multi core CPU you have to say Y to that
or you get this bizarre message about symblos are not found in the module
ah you compiled the kernel
no i want to compile lcnc
I did a total build
well LinuxCNC still needs the path to RTAI
but i do not know ehich path to use
I can almost figure it out from a screenshot i have
it is somewhere near /usr/realtime I think
because that is the default location RTAI installs to
[17:20:36] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/oPOsH0N.png
RTAI on Gentoo!
pfred1: what sort of things do you mill?
i have no usr realtime
but I couldn't get X Window and axis to run
that is bad
tandoori oh my CNC machine isn't done yet but I have a manual mill
I am making a CNC router for woodworking
I just got done making a new PSU for it
new CNC PSU http://i.imgur.com/XSiJp4R.jpg
hmmm I have a newer picture than that
[17:23:07] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FRK/KF2Q/HN82NHI3/FRKKF2QHN82NHI3.jpg
tahat is just the bridge and filter caps I keep the transformer in a separate metal box
about installing rtai
i installed precompilded .deb packages
uname -r gives me 3.4.55-rtai-1
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but i do not have the /usr/realtime
well i think i give up here lol
Crack123 could you install the source package?
i have no clue
the dev doesn't have the source tree it is just headers and man pages
which is what dev packages usually are
Crack123 did you run aptitude install linuxcnc-src ?
OK dpkg -L linuxcnc-src
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pfred1: what hardware are you using? (mainboard, cpu)
CaptHindsight that machine is an HP a6130n
I bought it at a thrift store for $5
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ / 2.6 GHz Chipset Type NVIDIA GeForce 6150 / nForce 430
but it is an upgrade over my Gateway 1GHz P3 that I found in a trash pile
ok i didnt install it cause he dont find it
Crack123 no package called linuxcnc-src?
dont find it yes
aptitude search linuxcnc
so 7 lines now with stuff
does one line say it is the source files?
that is the package you need
its 1 time linuxcnc, then with -dev and 5 times with doc end
OK try this dpkg -L linuxcnc | grep src
maybe the source comes with the main package?
I like the wooden enclosure for the PSU
CaptHindsight heh yeah I'm thinking about sanding it some more and maybe painting it
I like the rustic look
oh it's rustic i found the wood in my lean to
hm there nothing happens
it's practically found art
Crack123 I was afraid of that
yeah me to
Crack123 i honestly don't know how LinuxCNC distributes their source from the repository
Crack123 but there is another way to do this
you can do it with the first set of instructions
that i liked better anyways
that would be these http://www.etherlab.org/en/ethercat/index.php
i know this pdf
you can get the source code for LinuxCNC
why it isn't in the repository I've no idea
well maybe i try it later but atm my mood is just down
Crack123 do yo uknow which version of LinuxCNC you have?
Linix is 10.40 , linuxcnc is 2.5.3
not that it really matters by the time we're done you can have a different one
let's see if we can find you a release tarball shanshot for that
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it looks like your only option is git
ut would be much easier if i would know what i do here xD
Crack123 do this aptitude search git
aptitude show git
you might as well know what you're getting involved with
it say no real paket
no actual version
OK don't do this in your sudo terminal do this as a normal user
because you don't want all these files owned by root
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open another terminal up as yoru regular user
ah i see root none root kk
type cd into it then enter to go to your home directory
then mkdir linuxcnc
so this whole mess will g ointo that directory
now back to your root window install git with aptitude install git
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because you probably don't have git installed
same as ethercat thing before....
Crack123 this is what you have to do now http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?git
but do that in your regular user window
not as root
root will have to do some stuff later but we'll leave root out of it for as long as we can
i dont think that work now how u think it should
you installed git?
root window it says some weird error msg like no paket ( i cant even translate this word with google) and none root it say me some no permission lines
you must have ran the command in the wrong window
i tryd in both^^
only root can install
i cant translate this one word
the window with the #
candidate version or smth
try this type which git
I wish we could just download a snapshot
but I'm not seeing that option
so you need git in order to proceed
better i get some windows operation programm :(
well half the problem is the version LinuxCNC runs on is not supported anymore
10.04 went end of life last spring
somewhere wroted dont update it
so the repositories for it are shut down now
yes LinuxCNC should have moved to a newer version of Ubuntu
one that is still supported
what you might be able to do is change the repository
there might still be one alive somewhere
I'd be very surprised in fact if there wasn't
but what that is I cannot say
I'll try to find one
Crack123 OK now for some real funky Linux tinkering
Crack123 there is a file that tells aptitude where to look for software
Crack123 but where you're looking the server is probably dead now
so we're going to try a different server
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or do i need a lathe to make such items?
hey! how did I get in here?
[23:46:21] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
heh I accidentally swapped channels
Of course you need a lathe
stupid keyboard shortcuts
andypugh: lol how can you say that?
Everyone needs a lathe
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andypugh: i need a mill/router first
A mill could be a lathe, but then it would be a lathe, which everyone needs.
lathes are nice to have
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yeah andypugh has a 'lathe' mill
a lathe mill
[23:54:14] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_qEwL9vi3g
oh a horizontal mill lol
[23:55:47] <tandoori> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ypo_4zHvo
that's my fav so far
i played with engraving pcbs
didnt get very good results
i prefer having them sent out and get soldermask anyway
look at that sexy ground plane