#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-10-10

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[00:00:30] <andypugh> Step-dir input only, but that isn't necessarily a disaster
[00:00:49] <owhite> Leadshine. Boy those chinese sure know their marketing.
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[00:01:42] <owhite> oh huh. This pwm control is a new one on me.
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[00:07:22] <andypugh> Servo drives have been working on analogue voltage derived from a PWM for years. And then the first thing that they do internally is turn that analogue voltage into a PWM...
[00:10:40] <owhite> am I the only one that thinks at this point the pico boards should with using parallel port connections?
[00:10:51] <owhite> ^stop
[00:11:19] <andypugh> It works, it's deterministic, driver support is lightweight with few dependencies.
[00:11:39] <andypugh> What's _wrong_ with it?
[00:12:51] <owhite> I have to check but I'm not sure the mini-itx I was planning on using has a parallel port.
[00:13:27] <andypugh> Which one?
[00:13:47] <owhite> I dont have it in front of me.
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[00:17:57] <andypugh> Having said that, I have not used a Pico card myself.
[00:18:12] <Jymmm> I think cradek has
[00:18:14] <andypugh> But then I am knee-deep in Mesa samples.
[00:21:27] <cradek> I have pico products on my lathe (the resolver convertor), but I haven't used the ppmc interfaces on my own machines. But I have helped on retrofits that have.
[00:22:40] <owhite> cradek - what would you recommend for the current state of the art for brushed servo motor drivers ? I used to use gecko G320s but I'm wondering if people are doing anything different these days.
[00:23:29] <cradek> I think step-servos are a crap solution. but that being said, so far I've always used the drives that were already on the machine (original brushed servos, original drives)
[00:23:56] <cradek> I guess I used an AMC for my homemade 4th axis, it works fine
[00:24:12] <owhite> hm well I already have the brushed servo motors.
[00:24:32] <owhite> I forget, think they're in the 7amp range or something.
[00:25:25] <somenewguy> lucky man
[00:25:33] <owhite> what is a reasonably inexpensive alternative?
[00:26:37] <andypugh> What do you consider unreasonably expensive?
[00:27:22] <owhite> I dunno. It's been a while, I forget what price I got these on ebay.
[00:27:51] <owhite> is the point that brushless servos would be better?
[00:28:17] <andypugh> Not really. How many sets of brushes have you ever worn out?
[00:30:19] <owhite> okay so cradek is down on step-servos - is there some non-stepped approach to using brushed servos? keep in mind its been on the order of 8 years since I built my last system. At the time stepped servos seemed like the only affordable way to go.
[00:31:03] <andypugh> What interface are you looking at at the computer end?
[00:31:24] <kwallace> My Pico amps are working well: http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/
[00:31:31] <somenewguy> this is gonna sound silly once I know the answer, but why does ngcgui.ini contain a [Rs274ngc] field and the e default sim axis.ini does not? Is that not an important library?
[00:31:43] <somenewguy> how does axis not have it, or am I completlye misunderstanding how it works
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[00:33:15] <kwallace> Brushless amps let you adjust commutation timing on the fly.
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[00:33:42] <owhite> andypugh - the pci or what ever is in my mini-itx.
[00:34:01] <andypugh> Mesa card then?
[00:34:53] <owhite> probably. the only other I/O is going to be usb or db-9 connectors. I believe it has two but I have to double check.
[00:35:39] <andypugh> somenewguy: You can add [SECTIONS] and ENTRIES to the INI as required. I think that the [RS274NGC] one must be ngcgui-specific.
[00:35:58] <somenewguy> ok, a quick google of what it is makes it sound like it IS the gcode interperter so i am really confused
[00:36:38] <andypugh> In that case you can use a variety of interfaces, but the best support would be analogue-voltage, PWM or step/dir
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[00:37:45] <owhite> what are examples of driving brushed servos without using step-servo drivers?
[00:38:33] <MacGalempsy> sorry about that greet and vanish, had to get a report out to a client
[00:39:24] <andypugh> AMC analogue-input drives. (or any of a thousand others)
[00:39:33] <MacGalempsy> so andy, the computer you recommended and the mesa board set are on the way. the i/o options on those cards are quite impressive!
[00:40:03] <andypugh> The Mesa 7i29 takes direct PWM commands from the FPGA
[00:40:31] <MacGalempsy> after going through the linuxcnc documentations, im a still nervous about the setup phase
[00:40:39] <andypugh> owhite: Have a look at the 5i25/7i77 combo, and any +/-10V servo drive.
[00:40:50] <MacGalempsy> like figuring out all the settings for the motors and encoders
[00:41:15] <andypugh> With enormous flexibility comes enormous complexity, unfortunately.
[00:42:05] <MacGalempsy> yeah, I figured so. can you think of any addtional meters or tools I will need to calibrate the motor parameters?
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[00:44:38] <andypugh> No, Halscope is all that you should need.
[00:44:41] <owhite> andypugh - ah. Thanks. I wasnt aware there were animals like the 7i77.
[00:45:45] <andypugh> I am using the Mesa 8i20. That's a brushless drive, but us a good example of something different, as it takes current and phase angle commands in a digital serial format from the Mesa FPGA card.
[00:47:22] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: Halscope is cool: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/tutorial.html#sec:Tutorial-Halscope
[00:47:26] <MacGalempsy> the 5i25/7i77 combo runs ~240
[00:47:57] <andypugh> owhite: For step-servos the alternative is 5i25/7i76
[00:48:58] <MacGalempsy> the turret toolladder seems reasonable, but no real idea until everything gets stripped down. Hopefully, all the OEM buttons and lights will work right
[00:49:01] <andypugh> (Or to use the 7i29, in case you were thinking about it, you would need 5i20 or 5i23. A different style of card. )
[00:51:04] <andypugh> OK, out of here.
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[00:53:19] <MacGalempsy> The_Ball: whats up?
[00:53:56] * WalterN bounces The_Ball
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[01:02:47] <The_Ball> MacGalempsy, not much, just got to work
[01:02:57] <MacGalempsy> yeah me too. what do you do?
[01:03:19] <The_Ball> I'm a developer
[01:03:27] <The_Ball> What do you do?
[01:04:45] <WalterN> he pokes people on IRC
[01:05:01] <MacGalempsy> im a consulting geologist
[01:05:01] <The_Ball> hmm, who pays for that, hook me up ;)
[01:05:23] <MacGalempsy> so I wait for data to analyze then send out reports
[01:07:22] <The_Ball> Cool, for mining industry?
[01:07:22] <MacGalempsy> you guys have a best size touchscreen for running linuxcnc?
[01:07:30] <MacGalempsy> no oil and gas
[01:07:44] <The_Ball> yeah, the bigger the better ;)
[01:08:07] <MacGalempsy> hmm
[01:08:23] <MacGalempsy> this last computer got dual 27 and those are too big
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[01:08:37] <MacGalempsy> well, the wifeys computer
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[01:51:42] <s1dev> cradek: it was the tool table, turns out the tool table itself was zero indexed while what was shown in the software was one indexed and since there were extra empty entries in the tool table, it went unnoticed
[01:52:31] <WalterN> where is a good place to get a motion control belt?
[01:53:23] <WalterN> like 12ish feet long XD
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[01:54:13] <WalterN> something like a timing belt for a car
[01:54:33] <jdh> sdp-si perhaps
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[02:01:04] <WalterN> hmm
[02:01:17] <WalterN> maybe it would be easier to just get an acme screw
[02:01:29] <WalterN> 12ish feet long
[02:01:43] <somenewguy> chain?
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[02:02:02] <WalterN> a chain would work too
[02:05:38] <somenewguy> probably easier to get in the length you want, and you can couple em to make em longer
[02:05:44] <somenewguy> within reason of course
[02:07:05] <WalterN> hmm
[02:07:25] <WalterN> I'm not finding a 12' acme screw rod
[02:08:11] * WalterN goes to ebay
[02:08:37] <somenewguy> get a die and some rod lol
[02:09:14] <WalterN> meh
[02:09:16] <WalterN> I'm lazy
[02:09:23] <somenewguy> I wouldn't do it either
[02:09:29] <somenewguy> just encourage others to hate themselves doing it
[02:09:34] <WalterN> lol
[02:10:33] <WalterN> dies dont work very well anyway... single point is the best way, but doing 12' single point would be a pain in the butt
[02:12:33] <WalterN> I guess it dosent even have to be acme threads
[02:12:39] <WalterN> well
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[02:12:49] <WalterN> preferable
[02:14:18] <WalterN> not finding anything longer than 6'
[02:14:31] <WalterN> suppose I could put two of them together
[02:15:32] <Tom_itx> WalterN, the reprappers buy them in lengths i'm sure you could order what you need
[02:15:38] <WalterN> here is a 5 lead acme rod
[02:16:31] <WalterN> Tom_itx: I'm just not finding it though... 6' is about the longest I've seen so far
[02:17:07] <Tom_itx> WalterN, also have you seen this system: http://bell-everman.com/products/linear-positioning/servobelt-linear-sbl
[02:18:21] <WalterN> Tom_itx: how much is that?
[02:18:48] <Tom_itx> i'd call sdp-si or someone like them and ask
[02:18:57] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure about the cost on that system
[02:18:59] <WalterN> oh
[02:19:17] <WalterN> its designed to ride on a linear bearing?
[02:19:25] <Tom_itx> click on the 'how it works' tab
[02:19:29] <WalterN> I dont need it to be that accurate
[02:20:05] <WalterN> I'm just looking at stuff to make an automatic blanking thing for a hydraulic bandsaw XD
[02:21:33] <Tom_itx> http://www.vbeltsupply.com/timingbelts.html?gclid=CO2sw7uai7oCFWpp7AodC1oAPg
[02:22:14] <Tom_itx> i know the reprappers buy it in rolls
[02:22:23] <Tom_itx> they cut it to length and sell it
[02:22:30] <Tom_itx> but theirs is likely too small
[02:24:07] <WalterN> hmm
[02:24:39] <WalterN> timing belt that has ends?
[02:24:57] <Tom_itx> they make ends for it for open ended systems yes
[02:24:58] <WalterN> and you cut it to length and glue the ends together?
[02:25:16] <Tom_itx> i doubt you can glue the ends
[02:25:28] <somenewguy> spliceing is common practice no?
[02:26:26] <WalterN> I'm just trying to figure out what a roll of belt means
[02:27:29] <Tom_itx> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/816799734/rubber_T2_5_Open_Timing_Belt.html
[02:27:33] <Tom_itx> or similar
[02:28:40] <WalterN> how would you make it to length?
[02:29:08] <Tom_itx> do you need a closed end belt or open?
[02:29:34] <WalterN> closed loop
[02:29:35] <WalterN> lol
[02:29:57] <Tom_itx> then i'd call sdp-si or someone and tell them what length you need
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[02:32:48] <spack> those rolls are for long belts that don't ever make a full rotation
[02:32:53] <spack> they make less than half
[02:33:01] <spack> so the splice point never rolls over the pulleys
[02:33:01] <Tom_itx> right
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[02:33:45] <WalterN> hmm
[02:34:01] <Tom_itx> not really a splice, rather a clamping plate
[02:34:31] <WalterN> yeah, I recall seeing one of those in the past
[02:34:42] <WalterN> dont remember where
[02:35:37] <Tom_itx> http://www.gatesmectrol.com/mectrol/brochure.cfm?brochure=5193&location_id=5321
[02:36:18] <spack> yeah, it'd be a shitty splice
[02:36:29] <spack> sometimes the ends just clamp to the carriage
[02:39:50] <WalterN> what is this VbeltSupply.com place?
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[02:43:22] * WalterN starts looking at chains
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[02:47:43] <WalterN> they dont look too expensive
[02:49:27] <WalterN> shiny http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MORSE-06B-3-TRIPLE-STRAND-3-8IN-24FT-ROLLER-CHAIN-D203286-/290917776067
[02:49:46] <WalterN> what is that multi-band chain generally used for?
[02:50:01] <Tom_itx> heavier loads
[02:50:15] <Tom_itx> ever see a timing chain on a cheby?
[02:50:31] <Tom_itx> not roller chain but the same idea
[02:50:31] <WalterN> never seen a timing chain
[02:51:09] <Tom_itx> http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Cloyes-Gear-C3023X-S-B-Chevy-Double-Roller-Timing-Chain,220.html
[02:52:51] <Tom_itx> how long a belt do you need?
[02:54:18] <WalterN> about 12' between sprockets
[02:54:46] <WalterN> as I'd like to be able to drop in a 12' bar for the thing
[02:54:50] <Tom_itx> that would be a heavy chain too
[02:55:14] <Tom_itx> for a bar feed?
[02:55:26] <WalterN> bar feed for a band saw
[02:55:50] <WalterN> might make a bar feeder later on I guess
[02:57:13] <WalterN> hmm
[02:57:21] <WalterN> and a bandsaw to go with it XD
[02:57:41] <WalterN> the one we have here is kind of seriously fail
[02:58:28] <MacGalempsy> guys, what kind of control panels are hot to go with the linuxcnc package? any preferable configurations?
[02:58:58] <Tom_itx> whatever suits the application
[02:59:37] <WalterN> get a cheap mechanical keyboard and use that
[02:59:47] <Tom_itx> WalterN, do you use a feed stop on the end for the bar feed?
[02:59:49] <WalterN> <3 mechanical keyboards
[03:00:01] <WalterN> Tom_itx: what do you mean feed stop?
[03:00:17] <Tom_itx> to stop the bar to the proper length
[03:00:49] <Tom_itx> or are you counting on the feed mechanism to regulate the cutoff length?
[03:01:39] <WalterN> uh
[03:02:19] <Tom_itx> you indicated the application is to cut off a full length 12' bar to itty bitty pieces
[03:02:21] <WalterN> I was just going to use a beefy stepper motor and count steps based on whatever size sprockets I get to feed the correct length
[03:02:46] <Tom_itx> why not use a positive stop on the cutoff end?
[03:02:47] <WalterN> with a stop switch near the end of its travel
[03:03:03] <WalterN> I'm not sure what you mean
[03:03:18] <Tom_itx> similar to a lathe bar feed
[03:03:34] <Tom_itx> the material will advance until it hits the stop
[03:03:49] <WalterN> maybe we are talking about the same thing?
[03:03:52] <WalterN> lol
[03:04:16] <Tom_itx> that way you don't need to count stepper steps
[03:04:30] <Tom_itx> it will advance until it hits the hard stop
[03:04:50] <WalterN> what?
[03:04:56] <WalterN> oh... like
[03:05:22] <WalterN> have a switch in front of the saw, maybe an IR break beam?
[03:05:29] <Tom_itx> and some sort of clutch or slip mechanism to keep the feed mechanism from burning up when it hits the hard stop
[03:05:35] <Tom_itx> mechanical
[03:05:41] <Tom_itx> it could be optical i suppose
[03:07:23] <WalterN> enh
[03:07:25] <Tom_itx> http://bandsawblade.com/modernbf.htm
[03:08:15] <WalterN> wouldent it be easier to just use a stepper motor?
[03:12:34] <WalterN> anyway
[03:12:53] <Tom_itx> depends on the application i suppose
[03:13:03] <Tom_itx> there's generally more than one way to do something
[03:13:10] <WalterN> heh, yeah
[03:13:25] <WalterN> I'm thinking chain+stepper motor is the way to go
[03:13:39] <Tom_itx> what are you cutting off?
[03:13:58] <Tom_itx> tubing? I beams? it may make a design difference
[03:14:01] <WalterN> right now... square/rectangle 1018
[03:14:14] <WalterN> 1.5"ish in size
[03:14:28] <Tom_itx> is it cut to finish or rough cut?
[03:14:32] <WalterN> both
[03:14:45] <Tom_itx> then you _do_ need accuracy
[03:14:53] <WalterN> some stuff is sent out with a saw cut, some is faced
[03:15:55] <WalterN> either way they all end up in the mill to get holes and stuff drilled out
[03:16:59] <WalterN> and I could see it being useful for other things
[03:17:10] <WalterN> besides what is running right now
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[03:55:21] <MacGalempsy> hangout?
[04:28:55] <MacGalempsy> dang its dead
[04:30:31] <Jymmm> come back around 6am Pacific time
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[06:15:29] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[06:15:42] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:31:03] <MacGalempsy> morning
[06:32:22] <frallzor> Top of the mornin to ya
[06:35:08] <archivist> its the bottom pre breakfast and coffee :)
[06:35:57] <archivist> Loetmichel, I got around to taking pics of the other little presses http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2013/2013_10_07_Presses/
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[06:42:46] <frallzor> Ahhh soon my wooden plate is done!
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[06:54:31] <_DJ_> moin
[07:04:16] <MacGalempsy> guys, I saw a note that linuxcnc will not work with nvidia drivers. is there another driver source for nvidia cards?
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[07:04:40] <archivist> use the generic drivers in that case
[07:05:20] <MacGalempsy> ok. this is my first linux box and there is an older quadro fx card laying around.
[07:15:12] <MacGalempsy> is there even any benefit of running a beefed up video card with linuxcnc?
[07:15:42] <MacGalempsy> if all I am using the computer just the controller
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[07:30:17] <archivist> not really, I just use the lowest latency card I can find
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[07:35:40] <MacGalempsy> why so much emphasis on low latency?
[07:35:51] <MacGalempsy> i guess I dont understand the concept
[07:36:41] <archivist> it means the trajectory planner starts each cycle at a more regular time slot
[07:37:04] <archivist> and the loops etc (all the real time stuff)
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[07:37:24] <MacGalempsy> so basically lower latency leads to faster machining?
[07:38:13] <archivist> better
[07:39:23] <MacGalempsy> so is it a never ending quest for lower latency, or is there a point where it is the best it can get?
[07:41:07] <Loetmichel> archivist: nice!°
[07:41:27] <archivist> you can equate a point in time error with an accuracy is one can to the maths
[07:42:53] <archivist> Loetmichel, you can seet a broken part in one press (first) I took it apart to see why it broke. someone had brazed the adjusting screw, will make a new one
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[10:36:44] <archivist> bloody lathe motor...knocks the mains trip out now and again
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[10:43:05] <Loetmichel> archivist: hrhr... my co-worker had lent my circular saw at sunday, because the one he had (2kW) hat tripped his 10A breakers all the time... my saw has only 1050W ;.-)
[10:43:24] <Loetmichel> -t+d
[10:43:33] <archivist> its the earth leakage trip that drops out
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[10:44:06] <archivist> I was just finishing of the broken press screw !
[10:44:21] <archivist> now done and fitted
[10:45:16] <Loetmichel> hmm, isolation failure tripping the RCD?
[10:45:18] <Loetmichel> bad thing
[10:45:25] <Loetmichel> abd unpredictable , too
[10:45:29] <Loetmichel> and
[10:47:41] <archivist> yes, has been perfect all summer, october, cooler probably damp being in the garage
[10:49:50] <Loetmichel> dismantle the motor, get the stator out, dip it in 2k epoxy and vaccum
[10:49:57] <Loetmichel> ... hope for the best...
[10:50:01] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[10:52:19] <archivist> I dont have access to those types of facilities any more, local transformer company shut
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[15:06:59] <JT_Shop> I have 75 slots to do in 3/16" steel do you think it is cost effective to drill them out first?
[15:07:43] <Tom_itx> stack em
[15:07:53] <Tom_itx> how big are the slots?
[15:08:22] <JT_Shop> .26 x .625
[15:08:31] <Tom_itx> i would probably drill a pilot hole
[15:08:32] <JT_Shop> stacking never works for me in a vise
[15:08:52] <JT_Shop> I was thinking of drilling 3 holes
[15:09:03] <Tom_itx> you could stack drill the hole as a first op
[15:09:07] <Tom_itx> then just mill away
[15:09:28] <Tom_itx> would cut op time down a bit
[15:09:55] <JT_Shop> don't know how to hold the parts to stack them, 1" x 1.75" x 0.1875
[15:10:13] <Tom_itx> can you clamp the end?
[15:10:46] <Tom_itx> yeah it always depends on the part
[15:11:02] <Tom_itx> i would predrill though
[15:11:43] <Tom_itx> what size mill cutter?
[15:12:32] <JT_Shop> .25
[15:12:47] <jdh> I'd think about making a holder and running them through twice (drill then mill)
[15:12:55] <jdh> but, I'm a software guy :)
[15:12:55] <syyl> take a 6mm twoflute
[15:13:07] <syyl> ramp down to full depth
[15:13:18] <syyl> take a profile cut to cleanup
[15:13:19] <syyl> done
[15:13:27] <Tom_itx> predrill with a letter F drill and the mill won't miss the hole that way
[15:13:35] <Tom_itx> in case you're off a bit
[15:13:52] <syyl> i would guess 1 to 2 minutes per slot
[15:13:52] <Tom_itx> otherwise drill, mill all at once before reclamping the next part
[15:14:12] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't use a 2 flute on steel
[15:14:18] <Tom_itx> i'd use 3 or 4
[15:14:21] <syyl> i run 2 flute in steel all the time
[15:14:26] <syyl> Oo
[15:14:28] <Tom_itx> we avoided it
[15:14:30] <syyl> even for hard willing
[15:14:32] <syyl> *milling
[15:14:35] <JT_Shop> if I was doing this in the VMC with flood coolant I'd just mill the slots out but I'm trying to keep the heat down
[15:15:03] <Tom_itx> is this manual labor?
[15:15:44] <JT_Shop> on the BP knee mill 3 axis CNC
[15:16:01] <Tom_itx> oh you just don't have flood coolant on it..
[15:16:11] <Tom_itx> even mist would be ok i suspect
[15:16:35] <syyl> airblast works fine if you go for a carbide endmill
[15:16:46] <syyl> i dont see the need to predrill
[15:16:58] <syyl> not in that case
[15:17:12] <Tom_itx> the slot is fairly small, i might agree there
[15:17:26] <Tom_itx> it's harder on the cutter
[15:17:34] <syyl> jep
[15:17:42] <JT_Shop> that's what I'm thinking
[15:18:00] <Tom_itx> do you have room to ramp a decent angle?
[15:18:24] <syyl> [1708:22] <JT_Shop> .26 x .625
[15:18:34] <Tom_itx> i know
[15:18:41] <syyl> a little ;)
[15:18:59] <Tom_itx> well it isn't that deep, i say go for it and see how it does on a couple
[15:19:07] <Tom_itx> you can always add a drill if you need to
[15:19:21] <syyl> maybe it even works if you plunge it straight in
[15:19:21] <Tom_itx> ramp half speed or less
[15:19:26] <syyl> even harder on the tool
[15:19:36] <Tom_itx> yeah let's see how many we can chip
[15:19:57] <syyl> is a bridgeport so flimsy?
[15:20:01] <Tom_itx> try milling tungsten sometime
[15:20:09] <syyl> been there ;)
[15:20:12] <syyl> awfull
[15:20:48] <syyl> only edm and grinding anymore on tungsten for us
[15:21:00] <JT_Shop> if I put too much pressure on Z it move the crappy head up on the knuckle joint
[15:21:14] <syyl> uh Oo
[15:21:19] <Tom_itx> question boils down to which is gonna be quicker on that machine
[15:21:35] <syyl> it has no toolchanger, hasnt it?
[15:21:49] <Tom_itx> ramp and have to back up to clean the ramp or drill and mill
[15:22:19] <JT_Shop> I'm the tool changer
[15:22:20] <Tom_itx> that was why i suggested stack drilling at least
[15:22:24] <archivist> I would use the horizontal mill
[15:22:37] <JT_Shop> it's faster to change parts in the vise
[15:22:38] <syyl> stack up and wire edm ;)
[15:22:47] <syyl> (sorry ;) )
[15:22:57] <Tom_itx> mill one die and stamp em all
[15:23:07] <syyl> :)
[15:23:22] <Tom_itx> i know you got a decent press :)
[15:23:54] <Tom_itx> anyway, i'm off
[15:26:13] <Tom_itx> set up a jig in the drill press to predrill
[15:26:18] <Tom_itx> just make sure it's aligned right
[15:26:22] <syyl> thats a good idea
[15:26:26] <syyl> i like that one
[15:26:28] <Tom_itx> then you can do both at once
[15:26:59] <Tom_itx> and you won't get bored running back and forth :)
[15:28:21] <JT_Shop> easier to use the mill to drill with
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[15:29:01] <Tom_itx> it's just one of those 'no money maker' jobs any way you look at it
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[15:29:36] <syyl> good job to give somebody else ;)
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[15:31:40] <JT_Shop> it's parts for a much larger job
[15:31:42] <archivist> bit like the 4 bits of plastic I had to do, molded and shiny, remove 90 % with no outer marks...., used some wire cutters and a dremel, setup to mill would have taken ages
[15:32:03] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, i figured it was but it's still a pain
[15:32:11] <JT_Shop> that it is
[15:32:27] <Tom_itx> i think i'd still drill and mill
[15:32:37] <syyl> talking of pain
[15:32:38] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0350.jpg
[15:32:42] <Tom_itx> no need to screw up a cutter for that little part
[15:32:49] <syyl> machining 1000 of these sheet metal lever parts...
[15:33:42] <syyl> "just ad a hole in the lower section"
[15:33:43] <Tom_itx> that would warrant a die
[15:34:01] <syyl> thats what i thought, too
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[15:34:08] <_DJ_> hi syyl
[15:34:15] <syyl> but they wanted different hole diameters
[15:34:22] <syyl> and different location
[15:34:24] <syyl> ...
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[15:34:40] <syyl> so i went for drilling and milling
[15:34:54] <jdh> how do you align them ?
[15:35:12] <syyl> by the hole and the contour
[15:35:21] <syyl> there is a raised area
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[15:35:36] <jdh> on the clamp?
[15:35:42] <syyl> in the plate
[15:36:24] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0350%20-%20Kopie.jpg
[15:36:29] <syyl> i marked it ;)
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[15:40:49] <syyl> but recently i get all the good stuff to make :D
[15:40:50] <syyl> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24396704/QMTL2/IMAG0176.jpg
[15:47:38] <jdh> nifty
[15:48:35] <jdh> I thought that was another slot in the fixture plate, but I guess the corners are too square to be that.
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[15:54:38] <JT_Shop> parts are all holy now
[15:56:08] -!- syyl_ws has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[15:56:40] <jdh> skip the milling and just print the brackets on your handy solves-all-problems 3d printer!
[15:56:57] -!- syyl has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
[15:57:01] <syyl_ws_> yes
[15:57:13] <syyl_ws_> and after that you can print new brake discs for your car ;)
[15:57:17] <jdh> yeah
[15:57:28] <syyl_ws_> and a nice cup of coffee
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[15:57:48] <syyl_ws_> i am not the biggest fan of the 3d printer hype :D
[15:58:11] <jdh> we got one at work. All the CAD guys were excited about it.
[15:58:24] <jdh> I told them to let me know when they printed somethign useful with it.
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[15:58:46] <syyl_ws_> :D
[15:58:54] <syyl_ws_> we tried one to make our prototype parts with
[15:58:59] <jdh> I think they just thought I was being an ass back then, but so far all I have seen has been a few logos and a keychain fob
[15:59:00] <syyl_ws_> crap
[15:59:15] <syyl_ws_> now the prototype parts are back to be milled by me
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[16:22:55] * frallzor have a reprap mendel mono on order, 3dprinters are supposed to be cheap and tinkerful =)
[16:23:27] <frallzor> not expensive and change to it = nono =)
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[16:50:37] <jthornton> well that was fun
[16:54:55] <jdh> I'm not sure we need to hear about *that*
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[16:55:24] <jthornton> finished making the slots in the parts
[16:55:34] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[16:58:45] <jdh> that was speedy
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[17:01:25] <jthornton> the holes helped by removing the bulk of the material and only took a few seconds each to drill
[17:02:32] <jdh> you need a 5kW YAG and a waterjet.
[17:02:53] <IchGuckLive> or simply a 200USD plasma
[17:05:09] <jdh> too slaggy
[17:06:42] <IchGuckLive> and noicy and dirty
[17:07:17] <jthornton> mine is not dirty anymore
[17:07:49] <jthornton> I modified the water table to bring the level very close to the bottom of the part and no more dust everywhere
[17:09:55] <IchGuckLive> i go higher then that i got a EDM like watertable and fload at 1mm below partheight so 2mm into part on 3mm sheet
[17:10:16] <IchGuckLive> EDM like waterheight control
[17:10:37] <IchGuckLive> floats always in and runs off at given height
[17:11:29] <IchGuckLive> ok i had to mod the post to get away at cut end dont get springwell
[17:12:24] <jthornton> yea I move over some material while the tip cools
[17:12:32] <jthornton> or splash city
[17:12:50] <IchGuckLive> if you stay you fload the shop
[17:13:35] <IchGuckLive> at 3.5Bar it blows a 100l per min out of the table
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[18:04:07] <andypugh> I think I know wht my spindle oozes grease. It is meant to have an NLGI 3 grease in it. But all you ever see on sale is grade 2.
[18:05:28] <archivist> andypugh, remember all these people with screw/whatever accuracy questions, started a page to help/hinder http://www.archivist.info/cnc/screw_error/
[18:06:11] <archivist> just playing with phpplot at the moment and real data
[18:07:28] <archivist> squint right and there is a periodic error there on my machine, not enough to worry about but it shows
[18:08:03] <andypugh> I suspect that people care rather less about accuracy than they think they do.
[18:08:49] <archivist> I suspect some have more periodic error due to cheap sh... than they realise
[18:10:19] <archivist> I have a second hand nsk ball screw there and a tenths mitutoyo digital dti to measure it with
[18:12:02] <JT_Shop> mm on the plot?
[18:15:59] <IchGuckLive> plasma dont need accuracy at all !
[18:16:16] <IchGuckLive> cust cut the shape and wellt it together
[18:16:25] <IchGuckLive> 1mm is good to go
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[18:16:32] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[18:17:01] <kengu> off by one again
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[18:24:14] <archivist> JT_Shop, its .4" travel total so thou
[18:25:36] <archivist> JT_Shop, I am editing and playing with the page as I go :)
[18:38:51] <archivist> added axes to graphs with units
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[18:41:41] <pcw_home> does looke like some .050" periodic error
[18:41:59] <pcw_home> .050" pitch screw?
[18:42:09] <archivist> 2.5 mm iirc
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[18:43:43] <archivist> I was just making a sample chart for some of the users that are chasing errors the last few days, I should remount the dti so I can do the full 2 inches of its reach
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[18:45:00] <pcw_home> interesting so maybe 2 cycles/rotation?
[18:45:08] <archivist> I didnt put an end bearing mount on the ball screw so could even expect to see some bearing error
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[18:47:05] <strop> hi
[18:47:19] <archivist> pcw_home, also considering the second hand nature of the screw, could be wear
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[18:48:12] <strop> looking for a nice diy HW project to play around with EMC, any sugestions?
[18:49:30] <cpresser> strop: building a mill, or using one?
[18:49:44] <cpresser> ~s/mill/cnc machine/
[18:50:04] <strop> building one, using will be the second part of the experiment
[18:50:45] <cpresser> budget?
[18:51:06] <archivist> I made a fugly mill by using parts of other machines
[18:51:50] <andypugh> strop: Depending on the sort of project you like, a Plasma Cutter might be cool to have.
[18:52:15] <jdh> or, depending on how much space you have.
[18:52:44] <andypugh> A micro-plasma for cutting watch parts.
[18:53:02] <strop> space is no issue, but i was aiming at something simple that could then build something... bigger or more complex
[18:53:20] <cpresser> or a high-power diode-laser for engraving
[18:53:43] <andypugh> A plasma seems like a good tool for making other things with.
[18:53:54] <strop> plasma cutter sounds nice
[18:54:02] <jdh> Atlas V gantry
[18:54:17] <archivist> a lathe and mill are often required too
[18:54:25] <andypugh> I am thinking of hanging a plasma on an arm off the end of my milling machine. Think in terms of a water-table sat on the floor.
[18:55:40] <strop> do you know any example project i can follow?
[18:56:40] <strop> some years ago the linuxcnc site was full of such examples, but i can't seem to find the now
[18:56:56] <jdh> etch-a-sketch
[18:57:49] <archivist> strop you mean http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Case_Studies
[18:58:29] <andypugh> This looks like a good writeup from that page: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
[18:59:41] <andypugh> I just saw a SCARA plasma cutter on Youtube. Now I want to build one :-)
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[19:00:27] <JT_Shop> strop, http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/plasma.xhtml
[19:00:30] <archivist> what about an internal cnc gear shaving machine... (geared axes and some other evil jog needs)
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[19:01:54] <andypugh> Hmm, then I could make an epicyclic back-gear for my lathe...
[19:03:25] <strop> i had been through those pages, but some are broken, other are retrofits, so out of scope
[19:03:58] <strop> i do have a few engines lying around, from printers and ricoh machines
[19:03:59] Cylly is now known as Loetmichel
[19:04:11] <strop> they are fairly weak
[19:04:34] <archivist> dont dismiss retrofits easily as they can be a better start to a career making stuff
[19:04:43] <strop> but may do the trick
[19:05:10] <archivist> tiny printer motors..are tiny
[19:06:19] <strop> archivist: :D a few years ago, when i was a student i got envited to do an internship on a company doing just that: retrofits, i declined and pursued other paths
[19:07:28] <strop> i almost got my hands on an old myford lathe a couple of years ago, the business went sour, and it slipped off my hand
[19:08:00] <archivist> I live 25miles from where they were made
[19:08:23] <strop> heheehe
[19:08:38] <archivist> but I would prefer industrial iron to a myford
[19:09:00] <archivist> I have used a myford
[19:09:44] <strop> hey, i don't know nothing about this subject, but have allway's been curious. when i mentioned the internship my participation would be from an electrical point of view
[19:10:02] <andypugh> I was born in the same town as Boxford, Denford and Woodhouse & Mitchell lathes.
[19:10:53] <andypugh> But that is quite a small number of local manufacturers for one town in West Yorkshire. Heckmondwike, Cleckheaton and Halifax had hundreds of makers.
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[19:12:05] <archivist> Denford/ Boxford were related at one time
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[19:16:13] <strop> i fell of the wagon
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[19:18:00] <strop> as i was saying, i have been following www.buildyouridea.com , a great website
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[19:58:50] <JT_Shop> a guy just emailed me and wants me to design a 6 axis machine for his factory :)
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[20:06:26] <andypugh> JT_Shop: Does he also want to pay you?
[20:07:37] <JT_Shop> aye, I set up a machine for him a while back
[20:08:17] <andypugh> Repeat customers are the best sort.
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[20:08:55] <JT_Shop> yes, he is on the East coast so sometimes a challenge
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[20:12:42] <JT_Shop> anyway pretty neat stuff to work on
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[20:13:08] <JT_Shop> better than decorative steel fencing
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[20:13:42] <andypugh> I just found out what bearings are in my spindle: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?products_id=40501
[20:14:05] <andypugh> Except mine are Timken, solid cage, hand-engraved serial number!
[20:14:18] <JT_Shop> hand fitted?
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[20:16:25] <andypugh> I hope never to find out :-)
[20:17:36] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, did you drill the slots out or drill a pilot hole first?
[20:18:28] <JT_Shop> drilled 3 holes then slotted them
[20:18:58] <Tom_itx> sometimes it's hard to weigh which is more practical
[20:19:26] <Tom_itx> i know on some large hogouts we sometimes did that for quicker machining and less warpage
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[20:26:23] <Tom_itx> andypugh, is that like vxb.com in the US?
[20:26:44] <andypugh> Probably :-)
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[20:46:10] <Tom_itx> JT_Shop, 6 axis cutting maching or other?
[20:46:32] <JT_Shop> something like that yes for plastic
[20:46:59] <Tom_itx> belt drive?
[20:47:29] <Tom_itx> someone here was looking for a long drive belt
[20:47:33] <Tom_itx> like 12'
[20:52:32] <andypugh> Traction engine enthusiast?
[20:53:01] <Tom_itx> bar feed drive
[20:53:06] <Tom_itx> 12' bar stock
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[20:53:12] <Tom_itx> for a saw
[20:53:59] <andypugh> Well, as it is a reciprocating application, you can buy toothed-belt in reels.
[20:54:13] <Tom_itx> that was my suggestion
[20:55:18] <Tom_itx> he was gonna use stepper counts to keep track of length, i'm not quite sure if i agree with that
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[21:03:17] <andypugh> 14' seems to be a standard length: http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p670539/1700H075+Major+Brand+Synchronous+Toothed+Belt+19.05mm+Wide,+12.7+mm+Pitch,+340+Teeth+Allow+2-3+Days/product_info.html
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[21:04:16] <Tom_itx> which would stretch less, double roller chain or belt?
[21:04:56] <andypugh> Define "stretch"
[21:05:09] <Tom_itx> 'wear' stretch
[21:05:15] <andypugh> Belt then.
[21:05:21] <Tom_itx> really?
[21:05:23] <andypugh> But the chain will be less elastic
[21:06:01] <Tom_itx> for a saw application i suppose either would be suitable
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[21:12:58] <_DJ_> gn8
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[21:26:30] <kengu> what is the ultimaker plywood that is lasercuttable as we have some leftovers from ultimaker and that is pretty easily cutted (6mm) but then some other plywoods we have, same 6mm or even less and we are having troubles getting it to cut
[21:26:34] <kengu> what are the properties of "good cuttable plywood"
[21:26:43] <kengu> +laser
[21:27:24] <mrsun_> does stepper cables need shielding in some way ?
[21:27:32] <mrsun_> from driver to motor
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[22:06:10] <micges> mrsun_: imo they should be shielded
[22:06:58] <kengu> hum.. the internet says that interior grade plywood is good and exterior is not good. that is because the glue is different
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[23:04:29] <MacGalempsy> evening all
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[23:12:30] <andypugh> Hi
[23:13:23] <owhite> is there some irc command to save the dialogue on the channel?
[23:16:40] <andypugh> Your IRC client may be able to save logs.
[23:16:52] <andypugh> And there are a few loggers that log everything
[23:16:59] <andypugh> logger[mah]_:
[23:16:59] <logger[mah]_> andypugh: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-10-10.html
[23:17:18] <owhite> .
[23:17:57] <owhite> sweet. thanks.
[23:20:48] <owhite> andypugh: thanks for your help.
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[23:51:13] <JT_Shop> how do you loose a 6' level?
[23:53:09] <Tom_itx> set it on top of a wall and rest a while
[23:56:38] <MacGalempsy> so the mesa 5i25 and 7i77 are on the way. When the machine gets, here, I am hoping that I can unwire and catalog all the connections, then move the connections over to the 7i77. is there anything I should keep in mind when moving the connections?
[23:58:32] <MacGalempsy> is anyone seeing that youtube is down?