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[00:14:09] <MacGalempsy> evening everyone
[00:14:49] <micges> hi
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[00:20:17] <tjtr33> re ASME meet Wheaton IL. woohoo now there IS a schedule (tentative)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx-xKPGMmB9XUFprekZENWhfbDA/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1
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[00:43:46] <MacGalempsy> anyone machining anything exciting today?
[00:45:21] <MacGalempsy> it kind of blows my mind how much smaller modern controllers are, compared to those seen 10 years ago
[00:46:11] <Tom_itx> compare that to cell phones
[00:47:15] <MacGalempsy> at least phones started off small enough, but I see what you are saying
[00:47:42] <Tom_itx> the first one was a suitcase
[00:47:52] <Tom_itx> then came the bricks
[00:48:44] <MacGalempsy> heh. luckily, I didnt get my first phone until about 8 years ago
[00:50:22] <MacGalempsy> at this point, I am still trying to come up with a decent machine
[00:50:41] <MacGalempsy> has anyone had luck machining steel with a taig?
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[01:40:55] <andypugh> MacGalempsy: I guess one would do light cuts, in mild steel.
[01:41:09] <andypugh> Some steels are softer than some aluminiums.
[01:49:19] <andypugh> Just when I thought that my life couldn't get any more "Big Bang Theory", Wil Wheaton showed up in my Google+ circles....
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[02:00:30] <t12> how did the world go from
[02:00:40] <t12> alt.wesleycrusher.die.die.die.die
[02:00:58] <t12> to wil wheaton blog world
[02:03:09] <andypugh> It could be worse, we got Keith Chegwin back.
[02:04:30] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Jungle
[02:07:32] * WalterN flails
[02:14:14] <t12> i wonder if i can figure out this mitsu encoder protocol this wkend
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[02:38:56] <andypugh> Night all
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[03:27:41] <MacGalempsy> anyone got an opinion about the precision between a grizzley g0704 and a taig cnc?
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[05:19:03] <MacGalempsy> hello? anyone funning a grizzley g0704?
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[06:15:00] <mrsun_> hmm need some system to tighten the wires in the machine :/
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[06:53:27] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:58:03] <Jymmm> Howdy
[07:08:46] <DJ9DJ> hello Jymmm :-)
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[10:14:23] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:06:05] <MacGalempsy> morning
[11:06:27] <MacGalempsy> hey Loetmichel have you heard anything about the Syil cnc products?
[11:06:39] <Loetmichel> never
[11:07:14] <MacGalempsy> it is interesting because they have the exact same machine that Bolton Hardware sells, but yellow
[11:07:21] <MacGalempsy> http://www.boltonhardware.com/category/bolton-tools/metal-lathes-wood-lathes-milling-machines/cnc-lathes-cnc-milling-machines-cnc-machine-center/4-axis-cnc-milling-machine.php
[11:07:27] <MacGalempsy> http://syilamerica.com/machine_x5_vfd.php?view=ts
[11:08:00] <MacGalempsy> except the boltonhardware machine comes with all the accessories and is 700usd less
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[11:09:24] <Loetmichel> MacGalempsy: i would suggest both machines fall in china off the same foundry
[11:09:50] <Loetmichel> just the qualitycheck is more or less good ;-)
[11:10:36] <MacGalempsy> heh. still trying to figure out if I should get one of these two, or just settle for the TAIG. it would be nice to find something used with a ATC
[11:10:47] <Loetmichel> but i have not seen any of the machines live.
[11:11:11] <MacGalempsy> me neither, the bolton sales people are fucking idiots, they dont call back
[11:11:28] <MacGalempsy> I tried to get an idea of how square the machine is, but they did not know
[11:11:35] <Loetmichel> wrong
[11:11:42] <Loetmichel> they dont want to tell ;-)
[11:12:12] <MacGalempsy> from the people I talked to, Ithink they are just idiot order takers, not skilled sailes people
[11:12:29] <Loetmichel> ...or the company has intentionally not told them ;-)
[11:13:15] <MacGalempsy> lol. yeah you are probably right about that
[11:13:26] <MacGalempsy> hence the reason no call backs...
[11:13:42] <Loetmichel> i hanve seen HBM BF20 machines wehre they have forgotten to mill the T-slots out of the table...
[11:13:59] <MacGalempsy> holy crap
[11:14:01] <Loetmichel> just reguar cast slots in there ;-)
[11:14:47] <MacGalempsy> just keeping any eye out. the accountant told me to buy it before the end of the year
[11:14:51] <Loetmichel> so much for quality checks ;.-)
[11:15:12] <MacGalempsy> have you heard anything good about the grizzly g0704?
[11:15:17] <Loetmichel> no, sorry
[11:15:30] <MacGalempsy> heh. im shootin zero today
[11:15:44] <Loetmichel> i am german, maybe i have seen machines with similar castings, but the company names would be different over here
[11:16:04] <MacGalempsy> in all the cnc stuff you do, how often do you use an ATC?
[11:16:24] <Loetmichel> that depemds on what an atc is ;-)
[11:16:34] <MacGalempsy> automatic tool changer
[11:16:38] <Loetmichel> never
[11:16:54] <Loetmichel> i have seen some and worked on some less but never build one myself
[11:16:57] <ReadError> thats a pretty big jump
[11:17:05] <ReadError> a 1k to 7k in price
[11:17:07] <MacGalempsy> do you think it would be the time and effort?
[11:17:26] <Loetmichel> for hobby use its not necessary
[11:17:47] <Loetmichel> for production runs it will be required because of "man cost"
[11:18:15] <MacGalempsy> this project is so that I can start a small business
[11:18:35] <MacGalempsy> something to do in between hours of my normal work
[11:19:02] <Loetmichel> depends on what you want to do in that business: single or small run parts dont requre an ATC, mass production does
[11:19:48] <MacGalempsy> I was thinking it was more a time saver while doing more complex custome pieces
[11:20:56] <Loetmichel> for a single part you will stand beside the machine anyway, so you can change the tool by hand
[11:21:24] <Loetmichel> just at mass production one has to supervides a dozen or so machines: no time to change tools
[11:21:36] <Loetmichel> supervize
[11:21:42] <Loetmichel> supervise
[11:22:33] <MacGalempsy> here is the one I am inquiring about
http://www.exapro.com/benchman-xt-cnc-vertical-milling-machine-p30801007/#!prettyPhoto
[11:23:20] <MacGalempsy> it is nice how it is contained, but it makes milling longer pieces difficult
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[11:40:40] <JT_> Morning
[11:43:56] <mrsun_> damn, that wire did a number on the machine =)
[11:44:08] <mrsun_> steel cable ..
[11:44:11] <mrsun_> maybe its named
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[12:04:04] <Tom_itx> MacGalempsy i wonder if the side pannels open up. the left one doesn't look like it does. we've run a few parts with those doors open when they othewise wouldn't fit
[12:25:46] <MacGalempsy> Tom_itx: I think the door on the left will open
[12:25:58] <MacGalempsy> oops, I mean right
[12:26:40] <MacGalempsy> however, the window on the left could be popped out with the rubber seal
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[12:45:08] <ReadError> MacGalempsy you never machined but want to start a business doing it?
[12:46:02] <MacGalempsy> ReadError: i machined in high school, and have been getting pretty good with designs on the 3d printer.
[12:46:43] <MacGalempsy> ive never run a cnc machine, but think that over time I could perfect the skills
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[12:47:30] <MacGalempsy> im maxed out on my current income with my job and have been wanting to start something on the side. this seemed like a way to get into that
[12:50:12] <MacGalempsy> in some ways I think it would be easier than 3d printing because you dont have to worry as much about temp flux
[12:50:37] <ReadError> lol, 3d printing is way easier
[12:50:42] <ReadError> you dont have to toolpath etc
[12:51:34] <MacGalempsy> true, but the CAM software does that part
[12:51:53] <ReadError> erm
[12:51:56] <ReadError> no
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[12:54:04] <The_Ball> Is there a Fedora build how-to somewhere?
[13:05:25] <Einar> Any suggestion on an easy way to get LinuxCNC install for a lathe? I've been banging my head against the wall the whole day! Now it seems none of my PC's have a parport!
[13:06:10] <Einar> What hardware can be suggested that I just stick in a PCI slot, pick a ready made config, hook it up and run?
[13:06:55] <Einar> Oh! My PC's did have parports earlier. I have no clue why not today.
[13:10:53] <Tom_itx> mesa makes good hardware for pci
[13:13:12] <Tom_itx> it won't be plug n go but it's not that difficult to set one up
[13:13:45] <Tom_itx> install from the live cd and pick a lathe configuration
[13:13:53] <Einar> I looked at those, but there are so many cards, breakout boards etc. that I'm afraid I would be in the same situation. Having a combination tahat does not work well.
[13:14:02] <Tom_itx> 5i25
[13:14:11] <Tom_itx> and possibly a daughter card for it
[13:14:26] <Tom_itx> ask pcw_home when he wakes up
[13:15:20] <Einar> Yeah.. it's that "possibly" that scares me. Their website is not much help. At least not to someone that does not have a clue what will work with LinuxCNC.
[13:15:28] <Tom_itx> would depend somewhat if you have steppers or servos
[13:15:35] <Einar> Steppers.
[13:16:51] <Einar> Any idea why on a PC that worked some days ago, now lspci does not mention any parport?
[13:16:53] <Tom_itx> i think there is a combo you can purchase already for that
[13:17:02] <Tom_itx> the 5i25 bundled with another card
[13:17:27] <Tom_itx> nope
[13:17:47] <Tom_itx> dmesg may show a clue
[13:19:00] <Tom_itx> you should first run a latency test to make sure the MB is a viable option before you go too far
[13:20:30] <Einar> I found 3 PC's where the latency is around or less than 50000. For USC that should be fine. But it is very frustrating moving back to square one after just spending a few days wiring up the machine.
[13:21:04] <Einar> Then, when getting back to the PC, I'm lost again. SIGH!
[13:21:08] <Tom_itx> once a few wake up they may be able to help with the parport
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[13:22:59] <Tom_itx> you would get better performance from the mesa card anyway though
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[13:39:14] <Einar> Now I put in a PCI parport board. It shows in lspci. Could not find USC there either.
[13:40:14] <Einar> Disconnected USC. Powered it off, on again and connected to this PCIboard. Then it works.
[13:41:22] <Einar> Then comes the really strange part: Connected it to the builtin parport and ran it at 0x278. And it works!! That parport is however not shown by lspci.
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[13:43:54] <The_Ball> Einar, the mesa cards work very well with linuxcnc
[13:59:09] <Einar> In what file is the address of my parport set?
[14:04:26] <CaptHindsight> Einar: check the BIOS settings
[14:05:23] <Einar> I know the parport is at 0x278. dmesg bitches because it was not found at 0x378. I need to find where to change the expected address.
[14:13:29] <CaptHindsight> Einar:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Integrator_Manual.pdf page #10
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[14:14:15] <Einar> I found that, but not the file where it's supposed to be. I found one, but it seems that cannot be the one LinuxCNC is actually using.
[14:15:18] <CaptHindsight> page #10 .hal
[14:16:27] <jp_mill> what hal file is your ini calling
[14:16:39] <Einar> I'm runnning from linuxcnc-dev and I just found it is using linuxcnc/configs/univstep.
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[14:17:14] <Einar> Not linuxcnc-dev/configs/univstep.
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[14:21:28] <jp_mill> how are you starting your config?
[14:22:15] <Einar> Startting my config? I edit it in the text editor.
[14:27:12] <Einar> So I fixed it in all existances of the config. But now suddenly the test program cannot find the board either. So I am dealing with both hardware and software problems it seems.
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[14:29:37] <DJ9DJ> re-hi
[14:32:34] <Einar> Powered all down cold. Restarted. Ran univstepdiags, OK. Started linuxcnc. dmesg says in there "linux parport parport 0 does not support mode 4" Then it informs it cannot find the board. Parport address is now correct.
[14:33:00] <jp_mill> Einar: have you tried just using halrun via terminal?
[14:33:01] <Einar> After this I run univstepdiags again, and now it cannot find the board!?
[14:33:32] <Einar> halrun? I have no idea. I run linuxcnc.
[14:33:38] <jp_mill> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/24-hal-components/27024-8255-based-io-cards
[14:33:57] <jp_mill> that was for a different car but same idea^
[14:34:28] <jp_mill> look down and andy had directions in yellow to test via terminal
[14:41:12] <Einar> I did. And it seems a lot of PPMC cards are found. But I have only one card, and it's a USC. So my conclusion is it's reading random data from the parport.
[14:42:51] <Einar> Even though the univstepdiags is running fine. But after the attempt at running LinuxCNC or halrun it will not be found bu univstepdiags anymore.
[14:43:49] <Einar> A full powerdown of PC and USC will fix this, and univstepdiags will run and declare everything is OK.
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[14:45:18] <Einar> Disconnecting and power cycling just the USC will not clear the problem.
[14:53:33] <pcw_home> Are you running the USC from the built-in port or PCI port?
[14:54:01] <Einar> The built-in. I just put in a PCI card and will try that.
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[15:02:45] <pcw_home> Hmm I would expect the built in port to be less trouble :-(
[15:03:25] <pcw_home> but the built in port might be bad/marginal in some way
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[15:21:16] <Einar> Lost my Internet connection temporarily. What I said (into a non existing network) was: And that works. At least it does at the moment. So it seems the univstepdiags is not catching the problem I have.
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[15:24:20] <Einar> Now trying to prune down the mill config to a lathe config. Dealing with the errors as they are reported.
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[16:42:55] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:57:29] <jp_mill> hey
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[16:58:48] <IchGuckLive> hi jp
[16:58:58] <IchGuckLive> how is the weather
[16:59:05] <IchGuckLive> its rianing here ;-8
[17:01:42] <jp_mill> not bad 15degC
[17:03:50] <IchGuckLive> iv seen 35cm of frech snow on CNN in colorado
[17:04:37] <IchGuckLive> not unusual at this time of year
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[17:06:43] <jp_mill> yeah i can wait for that we get enough of that dec - mar
[17:07:19] <IchGuckLive> im off BBQ here today last oktober fest weekend celebrations
[17:07:21] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[19:14:18] <archivist> andypugh, your gearbox measurement may cockup where there are two ways to get a ratio
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[19:26:54] <ries> hey guys, let's say I am at G0A0X0Z10 and then issue G1A6000X50 what does LinuxCNC do with F? Eg, what should I take into consideration if I want to keep my mill over wood speed at 2400mm/minute?
[19:27:07] <ries> when I just issue F2400 the angular speed is way to fast
[19:28:16] <archivist> the angular axis currently has no clue of radius
[19:28:59] <archivist> I fiddle the f number for some sense, others use the inverse time mode
[19:31:11] <ries> archivist: I have been 'fiddleing this to '40' so it looked right (and looking at the chip) but I was wondering for a calc
[19:31:42] <ries> G93 seems to make sense though, since I can calculate the length aroun dmy stock, then I know how long it should take to complete
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[19:50:21] <archivist> hmm strange time of day for other self to be timing out
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[20:02:52] <ries> archivist: Programming G93 works very nice, just tested it and works as expected
[20:04:59] <archivist> needs fixing one day so it is more like the css mode of a lathe
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[20:08:56] <Einar> The Z DRO in axis always shows zero. When program runs the graphics seems right. No machine connected, so I don't know what the step/dir outputs do.
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[20:34:58] <andypugh> archivist: How can there be two ways to get a ratio?
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[20:48:46] <jp_mill> not being a huge user of steppers. what is a typical max vel for a mini mill?
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[20:50:48] <andypugh> You can reckon on steppers running up to something between 300 and 500 rpm in my limited expereience.
[20:55:14] <jp_mill> ok thanks got the mini mill setup now and i can get about 50 ipm out of it
[20:56:20] <jp_mill> probably good enough for anything anyone would want to do on a small mill
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[21:12:41] <andypugh> That sounds about right, actually.
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[21:16:44] <jp_mill> cool. I always tried to say away from steppers but they do work quite nicely
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[21:30:03] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:35:54] <Loetmichel> my personal experience is that every stepper with 200 steps/rev and size below 60mm square skips out at about 10 rev/sec when driven with 40V or less
[21:36:54] <Einar> What is SCALE in the .ini file?
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[21:41:28] <jp_mill> Einar: Step_Scale?
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[21:42:46] <jp_mill> oops scale is step scale either name can be used
[21:42:54] <Einar> No, just SCALE. And then there is OUTPUT_SCALE which is set to 1.000
[21:43:00] <jp_mill> so Scale is number of counts per machine unit
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[21:43:37] <jp_mill> i just finished setting up my mill
[21:45:00] <jp_mill> So 200deg motor at 5X microstepping with a 3:1 gear ratio and a .100" per rev screw gets a scale value of 30000
[21:45:34] <Einar> So with a 200 step/rev motor running half step and a 5mm screw its should be 200*2/5= 80 ?
[21:45:41] <jp_mill> for one inch of travel
[21:45:50] <jp_mill> my machine is in inches
[21:46:47] <jp_mill> is you motor connected straight to the screw?
[21:47:04] <Einar> No, there's a cogged belt.
[21:47:12] <jp_mill> 1:1 ratio?
[21:47:15] <Einar> Yes
[21:47:21] <jp_mill> that sucks
[21:47:27] <Einar> Uhh?
[21:47:40] <Einar> Why?
[21:48:04] <jp_mill> low resolution just joking around
[21:49:14] <jp_mill> what units are you planning on?
[21:49:39] <jp_mill> millimetres?
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[21:52:39] <jp_mill> you will also hae to check your max velocity and acceleration parameters. If acceleration is set too high the motor will just stall and cause you to run around scratching your head
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[22:01:29] <ries> archivist: I did a couple of more test, but in my case it will work just fine. I am writing a little tool that makes from a square stock of wood rond in a efficient manner, starting at corners first. Un the end I am going around 960 degrees (keep rotating, like a lathe) soo I needed to calculate a different F when using A20000 for example
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[22:03:04] <ries> Einar: I run my machine direct drive without issues, and I don't even have a gear, just rack and pinions.
[22:04:10] <Einar> Ries: I do the same with my mill. But then it runs Mach3, not LinuxCNC.
[22:04:23] <ries> You are missing something then :D
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[22:04:48] <ries> I do wood working only, so it's perfectly fine in my situation...
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[22:05:25] <Einar> Oh, I don't run rack, but direct drive to ballscrew.
[22:07:49] <ries> Einar: on your questions, this is perfeclty explain here :
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_config.html
[22:07:59] <ries> Go to 2.10.3. Stepper
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[22:08:37] <Einar> Been there. But I use the USC driver.
[22:11:47] <Einar> I'm trying to put in the right numbers but get a following error as soon as I try moving!
[22:15:54] <ries> out of curiocity, did you take one of the sample config's?
[22:17:50] <Einar> I took the sample config for mill. There is none for lathe. After a lot of mucking around it ran. But when trying to put in the right speeds for my lathe everything blew up!
[22:19:58] <ries> oops
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[23:12:05] * FinboySlick hehs, cute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5pGN6pqkyY
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