#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-09-25

[00:00:45] <kwallace2> I'm still undecided on what to do with the tip length. BTW this is what I have so far: http://www.wallacecompany.com/tmp/Screenshot-13.png
[00:02:19] <kwallace2> A dwell calculation might be good too.
[00:02:52] <somenewguy> I would call Zend the end of the full size hole
[00:02:56] <jp_mill_> oooh looks nice!
[00:02:58] <somenewguy> since you are trying to make a hole
[00:03:05] <somenewguy> but that is the nicest looking tool I ahve seen
[00:03:23] <somenewguy> I am a mach3 user, waiting to get my parallel PCI card in the mail before going over to linuxcnc
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[00:03:35] <somenewguy> no point setting up this machine, it is dying
[00:04:12] <somenewguy> but IMHO, I would prefere to tell it where the full diam hole should end, and have it give me a heads up in a box of waht the final tip depth would be
[00:04:25] <somenewguy> no clue how hard that is, just figured I'd give you the input
[00:05:06] <jthornton> sometimes I need full hole diameter depth and a way to calculate it with one mouse click or less
[00:05:38] <kwallace2> I had the hole called out properly to the radial corner, but then could not figure out how to calc the tip length without adding more boxes and buttons.
[00:06:18] <jthornton> yea, you gotta have all the facts
[00:06:19] <somenewguy> I would say just assume a 118 angle and have a greyed out box with the effective tip length?
[00:06:24] <jp_mill_> I wonder what that thread mill screen will look like?
[00:06:41] <somenewguy> OR a chart with final Z for std tip angles
[00:06:49] <somenewguy> coudl be in small print to the right of Z END
[00:07:09] <jthornton> I hate charts, if all you have is 118's then set that in a preference page
[00:07:15] <somenewguy> shrug, it might be more work than its worth, I have never acutally needed to konw before
[00:07:15] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/271851
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[00:07:28] <somenewguy> this current job just happens to care, first time ever lol
[00:07:54] <jthornton> I'm still adding a bit of things to that page
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[00:08:28] <kwallace2> Nice work JT. I like it.
[00:08:43] <somenewguy> ^this, that is a really well done screen
[00:09:00] <jthornton> thanks, I've been working on it
[00:09:05] <somenewguy> although after looking at mach3 wizards long enough, dog poo has a beautiful UI
[00:09:14] <jthornton> lol
[00:09:30] <jthornton> they make my eyes hurt
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[00:12:20] <kwallace2> Glade should allow many people to make their own UI. Once it gets more popular, I can imagine a library of UIs.
[00:13:17] <jthornton> I'm using glade for the basic screen layout
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[00:20:37] <jthornton> all right deep hole drilling has been added
[00:20:48] <jthornton> on to reaming or dinner what ever comes first
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[01:27:42] <ries> jthornton: I was thinking about that aswell, I could properly even attach it to my z-probe, also sorry for the delay, wife called
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[01:57:47] <spack> CaptHindsight: what do you think about this?
[01:57:53] <spack> CaptHindsight: https://swmi.craigslist.org/tls/4084649879.html
[01:59:15] <jdh> I could fit that in my garage, with some cleaning.
[01:59:24] <spack> "fit that in my garage"
[01:59:28] <spack> my thoughts exactly.
[02:00:33] <spack> probably have to unbolt something off the head to get a little clearance
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[02:18:09] <CaptHindsight> spack: looks nice, there was a Matsuura 710 on fleabay for $1500 last week
[02:18:26] <spack> yeah, the one on the east coast?
[02:18:36] <spack> i thought the shipping might be pretty high
[02:19:04] <CaptHindsight> yeah, not sure if have a friend with a big trailer
[02:19:37] <CaptHindsight> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matsuura-710-/281170891274?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item417717520a
[02:19:41] <CaptHindsight> still there
[02:22:54] <spack> i wonder how tall it is
[02:23:20] <spack> not finding that through google
[02:24:37] <CaptHindsight> that Bridgeport must be 6-7', but thats no help :)
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[02:25:26] <spack> bridgeport should be 86"
[02:25:35] <spack> or that's what the interwebs say
[02:26:02] <CaptHindsight> how much clearance in your garage?
[02:26:40] <spack> it's about 84"
[02:26:42] <CaptHindsight> btw, I found a new hackerspace on the southside
[02:27:02] <spack> i'm counting on having to unbolt the spindle motor on just about anything
[02:27:05] <spack> orly?
[02:27:06] <spack> where at?
[02:27:42] <CaptHindsight> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/South_Side_Hackerspace
[02:27:54] <CaptHindsight> 2233 S Throop St
[02:28:04] <CaptHindsight> near Chinatown
[02:28:14] <spack> cool, if i move from here, it will be to bridgeport
[02:28:27] <CaptHindsight> Bridgeport/Pilsen
[02:28:33] <CaptHindsight> http://sshchicago.org/
[02:29:06] <spack> i know that area pretty well
[02:29:06] <CaptHindsight> I was searching for some channel on IRC and it came up in the results
[02:29:11] <spack> heh
[02:29:13] <spack> nice
[02:30:01] <spack> i still like this one, but the dude won't come down on price:
[02:30:02] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hurco-KM3P-CNC-Milling-Machine-3-Axis-with-Books-Check-Video-/130944091144
[02:30:06] <spack> also, no tool changer
[02:31:04] <CaptHindsight> I've been too busy to look around
[02:31:13] <spack> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Milling-Machine-99-Mighty-15-x-42-Bed-Mill-Model-MV40-NEEDS-REBOOT-DISC-/231052047370?pt=US_Heavy_Equipment&hash=item35cbc6740a
[02:31:18] <spack> i don't know anything about mighty
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[02:31:40] <CaptHindsight> 1999
[02:31:48] <toastydeath> looks haas-level
[02:32:07] <toastydeath> i..e more rigid than a bridgeport, but less than the standard names you'd expect in VMCs
[02:32:12] <spack> dude said he wanted twice that if he finds the "boot disk"
[02:32:21] <spack> :P
[02:32:22] <CaptHindsight> hey I might even bid on that one :)
[02:32:35] <CaptHindsight> looks like a deal
[02:32:52] <toastydeath> i dig the pendant on that
[02:33:27] <spack> heh, that giant thing with the bmw wheel?
[02:33:28] <CaptHindsight> it's like those TV remotes for seniors
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[02:34:02] <spack> looks pretty clean
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[02:34:23] <spack> what's this "reboot disk" he's talking about?
[02:34:23] <CaptHindsight> it looks to big and clumsy to hold in one hand while turning the wheel with the other
[02:34:31] <spack> yeah, i bet it's been dropped a lot
[02:35:19] <CaptHindsight> needs reboot disc for control. PC Acramatic Control
[02:35:43] <spack> does he mean it needs to be reinstalled?
[02:35:50] <spack> what's a reboot disk?
[02:36:02] <spack> does it have the machine parameters on it or something?
[02:37:07] <CaptHindsight> it looks like it uses a PC for the controller
[02:37:19] <spack> i think that's just a drop feeder
[02:37:48] <spack> drip
[02:37:57] <CaptHindsight> has BIOS settings
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[05:33:46] <uw> idk i guess people are impressed with the sample pieces?
[05:33:58] <uw> looks like it was made on a $100 machine...
[05:34:00] <uw> oh wait
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[05:36:39] <CaptHindsight> I didn't they could make a SLA printer worse than a glue gun, but i was proved wrong
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[09:30:40] <archivist_herron> big one 200954563720
[09:33:11] <Loetmichel> nice one... but a bit expensive
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[14:48:44] <false8> Hey guys
[14:48:55] <kengu> hello
[14:49:35] <false8> pcw_home: If you're in, thanks for the custom bitfile, it's working like a charm!
[14:54:02] <pcw_home> Welcome!, thats just about at the limits of what will fit in a 5I20 however
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[15:01:01] <false8> Well, for the next project I was planning to buy a bigger card anyway, do you know the estimated transit time of products to the netherlands?
[15:05:04] <pcw_home> You can choose the shipment method, fastest (and most expensive ) is a few days
[15:05:42] <false8> ok good to know
[15:07:10] <false8> bdw, on my 7i64 inputs the red leds are glowing very very dim, when not active. This would mean a ground loop if I'm not mistaking, but I can't for the life of me find it, could anything else cause this?
[15:07:58] <false8> the cables are all shielded of course.
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[15:48:14] <jthornton> false8, shielded on one end only?
[15:48:26] <jthornton> grounded on one end only?
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[15:52:33] <pcw_home> on the 7I64 the red LEDs are reverse inout indicators so you have a negative input voltage >2V
[15:52:34] <pcw_home> or AC
[15:52:40] <pcw_home> input
[15:53:02] <ChristianS> hi, i have a reprap 3d printer but are currently research other open source CNC machine for a talk i'll give
[15:53:47] <ChristianS> any popular open source rounters/mills i should mention, besides the shapeoko?
[15:55:41] <CaptHindsight> ChristianS: why are you focusing on a single CNC machine vs the concept that Linuxcnc supports many types of CNC machines?
[15:57:09] <ChristianS> CaptHindsight: will mention the software but i'm looking for open-source hardware
[15:57:13] <CaptHindsight> Linuxcnc allows you to control just about any type of CNC machine
[15:57:41] <ChristianS> CaptHindsight: were the full blueprints/designs of the machine and free/open too, as with shapeoko, reprap, arduino etc.
[15:58:28] <JT-Shop> Gingerly
[15:58:29] <cpresser> ChristianS: linuxcnc is just the software. you will have to do the hardware yourself
[15:58:57] <cpresser> ChristianS: but there are some free mill-designs out there. see google/kickstarter/...
[15:59:37] <false8> I'm thinking AC, because reversing the input wiring gives the same result.
[15:59:40] <ChristianS> cpresser: ok, just thought some people here might be using such machines
[15:59:49] <ChristianS> or is there another channel were i could ask?
[16:00:26] <cpresser> ChristianS: i am not aware of any people or a channel for that topic. most people in here use retrofitted machines
[16:00:50] <pcw_home> all 7I64 inputs are floating so each input +- pair needs to be terminaled
[16:00:53] <CaptHindsight> ChristianS: there are but many people here treat machine design the way you might look at a box of crayons
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[16:01:20] <CaptHindsight> box of crayons and blank paper vs crayons and a coloring book
[16:01:31] <pcw_home> Is the control logic 24VAC?
[16:02:07] <ChristianS> CaptHindsight: hmm, any coloring instructions anywhere? ;)
[16:02:13] <false8> Yes, wired like this: +24vdc->switch(no)->7i64+->7i64- -> com
[16:02:25] <false8> nope, dc
[16:03:17] <CaptHindsight> ChristianS: search the crowdfunding sites and cnczone etc
[16:03:32] <cpresser> ChristianS: there are projects like this out: http://diylilcnc.org/
[16:03:43] <cpresser> ChristianS: you will find a handful of similar ones
[16:03:59] <false8> It only occurs when the drives are enabled with a motor connected. So probably noise, but I'm using a star point distribution and all cables are shielded, except for the servo leads.
[16:06:04] <pcw_home> Thats a lot of noise to turn on the reverse protection LEDs...
[16:06:23] <false8> Putting a isolated screwdriver on the + input gives the same dim led response, so acting as an antenna right? But connecting the input to the switch lead with the switch disconnected, the led stays off??
[16:06:23] <ChristianS> cpresser: diylilcnc is a good tip, thanks
[16:07:33] <cpresser> ChristianS: you should include the retrofit-option in your talk :)
[16:08:46] <archivist_> ChristianS, I can show fugly homebrew machine, no "design" involved (5 axis cnc mill)
[16:10:05] <pcw_home> If the switch leads are shielded/twisted I might expect this
[16:10:07] <pcw_home> especially if theres a _lot_ of noise around
[16:12:19] <JT-Shop> 5 more days of slow internet
[16:14:59] <cradek> did you find the cause?
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[16:21:27] <archivist_> I deeply suspect junk on websites to be sucking bandwidth
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[16:22:35] <cradek> yeah that's likely (especially flash garbage)
[16:23:20] <archivist_> and the web collect all your data, and the send video adverts
[16:23:28] <archivist_> web2
[16:23:39] <cradek> it'd sure be easy for me to find, but my nat and firewall are a computer, not a black box
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[16:24:14] <archivist_> I just came home and had to kill -9 firefox to get out of swap
[16:24:31] <JT-Shop> I think it was the eye pad
[16:24:42] <cradek> yeah "exit your browser when you're not using it" is good advice
[16:24:47] <archivist_> stab it in the eye
[16:24:57] <cradek> what was it doing? something you asked for, or didn't ask for?
[16:25:12] <jmasseo> certain websites will cause your browser to leak violently.
[16:25:18] <JT-Shop> I think it was syncing icloud or something like that
[16:25:33] <archivist_> last thing I did was on the BBC web site and look at the watchmaking vid
[16:25:48] <false8> pcw_home: Scope to the + input leads gives about 4V p-p, scope to the PE gives about the same.
[16:25:54] <archivist_> cradek, you should see that
[16:26:09] <cradek> is that a special way of saying it sends a copy of all your data to apple?
[16:26:17] <cradek> archivist_: url?
[16:26:21] <JT-Shop> yea all your photos
[16:26:36] <JT-Shop> I turned off wifi on all the eye devices
[16:26:39] <cradek> lovely
[16:26:47] <archivist_> I have to restart firefox !...may take some time
[16:27:07] <JT-Shop> I've been turning off everything except the IRC when I'm not using it
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[16:28:32] <archivist_> cradek the search term on the news site is "the man who makes £100000 watches"
[16:28:34] <false8> earth fault?
[16:29:22] <cradek> bbc.co.uk?
[16:29:49] <archivist_> cradek, www.bbc.co.uk/news
[16:30:10] <cradek> aha, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24211691
[16:30:29] <archivist_> the old guy is George Daniels
[16:30:39] <archivist_> the late
[16:30:47] <cradek> oh that's wonderful, someone is following him
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[16:31:02] <cradek> I've read his big book many times
[16:31:11] <archivist_> he handed a certificate to me :)
[16:31:20] <archivist_> I have the book
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[16:33:56] <archivist_> hmm firefox running at 104% and still not showing anything yet
[16:35:56] <JT-Shop> on this windoze computer I have a meter that's been running for a couple of weeks and it has only up/down loaded 0.379GB
[16:36:13] <cradek> archivist_: and someone so young, yay :-)
[16:36:37] <archivist_> yes young and keen
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[16:55:17] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:16:47] <jthornton> hi
[17:17:51] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[17:23:41] <DJ9DJ> nabemd
[17:24:02] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:24:06] <DJ9DJ> namd ;)
[17:24:08] <DJ9DJ> hi live-gucker
[17:24:22] <IchGuckLive> oktoberfest beer beer und die schiederin
[17:25:29] <IchGuckLive> http://www.muenchen.tv/munchen-tv-livestream/#.UkMcftdhNe8
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[17:46:42] <pcw_home> http://www.templeofcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/cat-car.jpg
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[17:50:40] <archivist_> what has been seen cannot be unseen
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[18:10:08] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:28:21] <ReadError> off by what?
[18:28:25] <ReadError> (never gets old)
[18:31:41] <DJ9DJ> offline ;-)
[18:32:39] <CaptHindsight> Lunchin in München
[18:34:11] <DJ9DJ> you mean drinking beer until he cannot stand any more
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[18:34:21] <DJ9DJ> ;-)
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[19:06:10] <JT-Shop> anyone want to test the mill G code generator?
[19:06:40] <JT-Shop> I'm getting close to finishing it http://gnipsel.com/shop/files/mill.zip
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[20:33:42] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:41:29] <JT-Shop> night
[20:41:55] <kengu> good evening
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[20:42:29] <JT-Shop> I'm getting close to finishing it http://gnipsel.com/shop/files/mill.zip
[20:42:43] <joebog> morning all, If I invert the y channel , wont that change my datum point ?
[20:42:54] <joebog> from rear left to front left ??
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[20:45:38] <joebog> mornin skunk
[20:51:09] <jdh> try it and find out
[20:51:19] <jdh> mine is front left
[20:51:45] <joebog> OK I will
[20:51:56] <jdh> some people like back since the fixed jaw of a vise is in the back.
[20:52:20] <joebog> thats the opposite from the origional english setup AND the Cipher windows setup ??
[20:52:29] <jdh> but, I am not a machinist.
[20:52:49] <joebog> nor am I :D
[20:52:59] <jdh> is the original setup relevant for anything?
[20:53:00] <joebog> Im a pretty poor engineer heh heh heh
[20:53:06] <joebog> BUT rapidly learning
[20:53:17] <joebog> no it isnt relevant
[20:53:33] <joebog> its just that its changed my thinking
[20:54:21] <jdh> change is good!
[20:54:26] <jdh> here, have some hope, and change.
[20:54:33] <joebog> heh heh I suppose so
[20:54:59] <joebog> I had to change some settings in the config to make it work
[20:55:15] <jdh> that's why it is a config instead of compiled in.
[20:55:29] <andypugh> Odd email " Keith Fenner added you on Google+"
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[20:55:51] <joebog> I have a second question, the z axis still seems to "gain" down movement, by that I mean it doesnt seem to go back to what I set as the home point
[20:55:56] <joebog> does that make sense ?
[20:56:02] <jdh> is the head heavy?
[20:56:07] <JT-Shop> joebog: lathe or mill?
[20:56:25] <JT-Shop> nevermind
[20:56:34] <andypugh> joebog: Which stepper drivers are you using now?
[20:56:37] <joebog> npe no real "weight" at all
[20:56:48] <joebog> head is driven by worm and ball
[20:56:58] <joebog> chuck is 3/8" collet chuck
[20:57:43] <joebog> the same ones andy, I have no idea what they are, as all labels and makers plates have been removed
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[20:58:19] <joebog> BUT the x and y axis now work perfectly
[20:58:31] <joebog> apart from the need to invert y axis
[20:58:38] <andypugh> The same ones as were fitted by Cipher, or the other ones?
[20:59:21] <joebog> Cipher ones I "think" the guy has clammed up since Im not going to spend $7500 of 5 fonts software
[20:59:47] <joebog> I can see the glue where the name plates were removed
[21:00:18] <joebog> they are mounted using " universal mounting plates" same as I see on eblech
[21:02:37] <joebog> er hmm I just reread yourquestion, sorry, the stepper drivers are cipher of 408
[21:02:57] <joebog> I still use the breakout board I bought as my interface though
[21:04:05] <joebog> IM408
[21:08:28] <andypugh> I would try putting the Y driver on the Z axis and seeing what you get. (purely as a wiring change)
[21:10:05] <joebog> I can do that, you suspect motor maybe ??
[21:10:12] <joebog> or a driver board ?
[21:10:21] <andypugh> Could be either.
[21:10:36] <andypugh> Though inverting the step pulses in stepconf is also worth a try.
[21:11:04] <joebog> can you run that by me ? please , how to invert ?
[21:11:19] <joebog> is it just add a minus to the direction ?
[21:11:56] <joebog> perhaps I should explain what Ive done now
[21:12:16] <JT-Shop> joebog: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/stepconf.html#_parallel_port_setup_a_id_sec_parallel_port_setup_a
[21:12:26] <JT-Shop> see the Invert check box?
[21:12:36] <andypugh> No, there is a tick box next to each pin on the parport setup page that lets you invert the pin. You might find you get better results with 0-for-step. (you can also use that to invert the direction pin to swap directions)
[21:13:15] <joebog> I have set my "zero" half way between the two end stops so that cutters of different legths can be accomodated
[21:13:27] <joebog> OK sorrry about that
[21:13:36] <joebog> Im home and not looking at the machine
[21:13:56] <joebog> as soon as I saw the link page I twigged
[21:14:43] <andypugh> There is no need to do that, though you can, of course. You almost never work in "machine" coordinates but in offset work coordinates (typically with Z=0 at the top of the work)
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[21:15:39] <joebog> OK, although I still think I have done something wrong, as the z axis always ends up jammed into the bottom stop
[21:16:07] <joebog> I havent connected limit switches yet
[21:16:23] <tjtr33> verb Brit.informal past tense: twigged; past participle: twigged 1. understand or realize something. :)
[21:16:57] <JT-Shop> joebog: some more good reading http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/g-code/index.html
[21:17:01] <joebog> :) thanks for that tjr
[21:17:40] <tjtr33> trying to keep up ( Thai & Mandarin aren't enuf, OZ is tricky :)
[21:17:56] <joebog> thganks JT, I have been reading alla the stuff, BUT you have thousands of pages
[21:18:33] <joebog> strewth tjr hold the pony
[21:18:55] <tjtr33> really, try swapping the drives. if same, suspect you _loose_ steps going up and a counterbalance may help ( quik rig up a weight and pulley )
[21:19:05] <tjtr33> good on ya'
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[21:20:09] <tjtr33> if different, suspect amp or motor or couplings ...
[21:20:13] <JT-Shop> the best page is Start Here!
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[21:20:25] <joebog> I will try swapping drives !!!but no easy way to hang counter balance on, Ill post more pics so you will understand that will happen tomorrow
[21:20:58] <joebog> have done exactly that JT, but its a steep learning curve and Im slow :D
[21:21:19] <JT-Shop> you will get there
[21:21:32] <JT-Shop> have you seen the stepper test?
[21:21:53] <joebog> on config pages ?
[21:21:53] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.html#_testing
[21:22:15] <JT-Shop> no, a little G code to test an axis for missing steps
[21:22:42] <joebog> I see it
[21:22:43] * JT-Shop heads out now
[21:22:55] <joebog> thats exactly what I have been looking for
[21:23:01] <JT-Shop> there you go
[21:23:08] <joebog> thanks again JT
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[22:32:34] <Nick001-shop> is pyvcp an addon for linuxcnc ?
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[22:42:04] <andypugh> No, it's a built-in
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[22:43:06] <archivist_> CaptHindsight, not a glue gun http://reprap.org/wiki/MetalicaRap
[22:43:57] <andypugh> archivist_: Any idea how globoidal worms work?
[22:45:03] <andypugh> It seems to me that as the radius of the worm incrreases towards the ends, so the curvature no longer fits the wheel.
[22:45:43] <andypugh> But maybe the tooth shape is somehow compensated.
[22:46:18] <andypugh> I am trying to 3D-model a globoidal ball-worm, and it turns out to be harder than it looks.
[22:47:18] <archivist_> there is a solidworks tutorial to draw one
[22:47:48] <archivist_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20qSj_QUOM
[22:49:53] <andypugh> That is, however, completely wrong :-)
[22:50:07] <andypugh> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sorging.ro%2Fen%2Fmember%2FserveFile%2Fformat%2Fpdf%2Fslug%2Fgloboid-worm-hob&ei=xGdDUoCcHcXa0QWh24CADg&usg=AFQjCNG7Pev-boQKb9VlCtGt83_I31PEtw&sig2=sp3dyFgMfSeKZan8nX2AvA&bvm=bv.53217764,d.d2k
[22:50:11] <andypugh> Is closer
[22:53:17] <andypugh> I suspect it might be easier to make than model...
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[22:53:58] <archivist_> mebe
[22:55:05] <archivist_> that bit of a paper has a fiddle to spread wear that looks interesting
[22:56:02] <andypugh> I suspect that the trick is to make a hob and let the wheel sort itself out.
[22:57:40] <archivist_> the "make a hob bit" is a clue also to make a worm I think
[22:58:30] <archivist_> needs a "lathe" with a rotating tool post
[23:00:11] <andypugh> Indeed. I am thinking hob-to-be in the horizontal spindle of the milling machine with the cuttter on the A axis with a form too.
[23:00:13] <andypugh> (l)
[23:01:49] <andypugh> That will only generate the correct form on the central plane, but looking at pictures I think that the wheel gaps end up spread anyway.
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[23:02:35] <archivist_> but, considering I have measured worm and wheel accuracy using optical techniques...there be dragons
[23:02:38] <andypugh> (I was awake all night last night thinking round this puzzle)
[23:03:02] <Nick001-shop> does pyvcp need to be started and is it in 2.5.1?
[23:03:27] <andypugh> It has been in all versions since at least 2.3
[23:03:50] <archivist_> you probably have to start reading some manual/ code/wiki to use it
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[23:04:28] <andypugh> archivist_: I assume you have seen http://urobotics.urology.jhu.edu/projects/BW/ ? (and wondered why a Urology dept would want one?)
[23:05:09] <andypugh> Nick001-shop: Have you read: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pyvcp.html
[23:05:28] <Nick001-shop> I'll have to check further to see what I did wrong - trying to get a spindle speed box working now that single point threading is working
[23:07:34] <archivist_> andypugh, seen that page in the past when looking at ball worm drive
[23:08:07] <CaptHindsight> archivist_: yes, it's the cost and complexity that holds it back from DIY and patents from commercial applications
[23:08:13] <andypugh> It looks interesting, but ideally you would want an enveloping worm, I think.
[23:08:42] <archivist_> the thing that got me in testing some rotaries is when a new too tales load, there is a step in the output angle
[23:09:05] <archivist_> new tooth takes
[23:09:48] <archivist_> this is why telescope makers use very high reduction ratios
[23:09:53] <CaptHindsight> archivist_: molds from sand and also lost wax types may be printed very rapidly for casting metals
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[23:11:55] <andypugh> archivist_: Interesting globoidal cam here: http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2013/04/13/cnc-4th-axis-basics-how-they-work/
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[23:13:08] <andypugh> I am struggling to see any advantages in those designs.
[23:13:36] <archivist_> speed
[23:14:04] <andypugh> They don't seem inherently low-backlash
[23:14:04] <archivist_> and one can calibrate out the error as a tool indexer
[23:14:41] <CaptHindsight> archivist_: there's lots of 3d printer tech that is just sitting on the shelf and ignored so that other high margin tech stays alive
[23:14:50] <archivist_> one of those "use the right tool for the job" problems
[23:14:52] <tjtr33> The Machines of Leonardo Da Vinci and Franz Reuleaux: Kinematics of Machines ... discusses enveloping worms and refers to a cad model available and to 2 phys models in Voigts collection on page 318
[23:15:19] <tjtr33> do you want a worm with a lot of contact for torque?
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[23:16:08] <archivist_> for a machining table you have torque, backlash and accuracy needs
[23:16:54] <CaptHindsight> andypugh: yes, I don't see lower backlash just higher contact area
[23:17:05] <archivist_> as a gear maker, the accuracy matters most
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[23:18:10] <andypugh> When I make gears I only cut the right number of teeth about half the time. :-)
[23:18:15] <tjtr33> maybe more contact area averages error or reduces effect of individual/small are errors
[23:18:24] <tjtr33> area
[23:18:30] <andypugh> Interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplex_worm
[23:18:39] <CaptHindsight> with higher contact area you might get lower backlash since you spread the errors over that larger area
[23:19:10] <archivist_> tjtr33, that does not seem to be shown in my measurements of rotary tables
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[23:22:10] <archivist_> any form error of the worm or gear will give a new tooth pickup step change in output angle, one can minimise with large reduction though
[23:22:23] <CaptHindsight> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Newport-DC-Motor-Drive-for-RV240CC-240mm-Rotation-Stage-/00/s/NTY5WDc1MA==/z/4vUAAOxyu~lSQN8k/$T2eC16V,!%29MFIb%28%29B!twBSQN8kq4Gw~~60_3.JPG
[23:23:03] <CaptHindsight> ^^ these worm gears get <0.001 deg repeatability on their rotational stages
[23:23:19] <archivist_> I want to try a harmonic drive one day
[23:23:36] <archivist_> repeatability is not accuracy
[23:24:33] <CaptHindsight> absolute accuracy 0.005 deg
[23:24:58] <tjtr33> encoder on the worm?\
[23:25:48] <archivist_> tjtr33, no because you lose the accuracy between worm and wheel
[23:26:32] <archivist_> one has to manufacture with accuracy in mind at the outset
[23:26:34] <tjtr33> we had 2 mfctrs claim .001deg accuracy. 3R had encoder on worm, Hirschmann used Heidenhain thru hole on axis itself ( and 6" dia bearings ) Hman won.
[23:27:09] <archivist_> and cost?
[23:27:18] <CaptHindsight> the highest accuracy models have the encoder attached to the moving platen
[23:27:26] <CaptHindsight> http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=RV120HAT
[23:27:40] <tjtr33> hehe the 3R ran 35K , surpringly the Hman was cheaper ( no price comes to mind )
[23:28:05] <CaptHindsight> ^^ that stage is $9000
[23:28:11] <andypugh> http://www.renishaw.com/en/resolute-absolute-optical-linear-and-absolute-optical-rotary-angle-encoder-system--10852 looks ideal for that
[23:28:46] <CaptHindsight> I've been reworking them to see what we can get out of them
[23:29:53] <archivist_> andypugh, I got stuck on the Renishaw stand a couple of years ago being shown that ... it is rather nice
[23:30:19] <tjtr33> http://www.hirschmannusa.com/english/cachsenov.htm
[23:30:19] <andypugh> I wonder if they will lend me one to test BiSS with?
[23:30:50] <archivist_> you just care about torque and backlash let the measuring fix accuracy
[23:31:17] <tjtr33> agreed
[23:31:29] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: what price range are the Hirshmann units in?
[23:31:51] <tjtr33> dunno, i can find out if you like
[23:32:05] <tjtr33> guesstimate 15k
[23:32:09] <archivist_> tjtr33, you were quoting resolution not accuracy :) if you read that chart
[23:32:11] <CaptHindsight> it's ok, I can check
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[23:33:08] <tjtr33> archivist we had to have a laser inspection proove they were +/- .002 deg, so true they claim .001 rez
[23:33:31] <tjtr33> ^^^ 3R ( system 3R sweden )
[23:34:09] <tjtr33> CaptHindsight, Pete Knowles pres Hman USA Arl Hts
[23:34:13] <CaptHindsight> I'm working on a lower cost laser system to build into machines for self calibration
[23:34:30] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: yeah, I talked to him before
[23:35:08] <CaptHindsight> I got pricing on those already
[23:35:17] <CaptHindsight> been so busy i forgot :)
[23:35:50] <tjtr33> then let ME know, i get mine from Taiwan installed in taiwan & shipped to USA
[23:36:05] <CaptHindsight> they were nice but had long lead times. I think they are all pretty much built to order
[23:36:26] <tjtr33> try MMK ( matsumura )
[23:38:06] <CaptHindsight> http://www.mmkmatsumoto.com/rotary-tables/
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[23:39:06] <CaptHindsight> I always outside their target application
[23:39:22] <tjtr33> they have a line that they tear apart and hand work, claiming very high precision
[23:39:49] <CaptHindsight> I don't have any cutting tool contact
[23:39:53] <tjtr33> i used some made into SS for submerging in DI water
[23:40:10] <CaptHindsight> it's closer to EDM but the parts are typically lighter
[23:40:13] <tjtr33> for EDM ( non contact)
[23:40:32] <tjtr33> Sam Noguchi pres US ops
[23:40:40] <tjtr33> maybe Naguchi
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[23:41:16] <CaptHindsight> we talked about these early in the summer
[23:41:20] <tjtr33> yep
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[23:41:37] <tjtr33> back to remodelling bye
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[23:41:40] <andypugh> Polytec make some amazing kit. 24Mhz bandwidth and sub nanometer distance resolution. http://www.polytec-ltd.co.uk/uk/
[23:42:43] <uw> S to the PAM
[23:43:44] <Nick001-shop> andy - thanks for the info - I think I'm missing the hal pin. I'll work on it after the Hardinge is done with it's current work.
[23:44:27] <CaptHindsight> lots of patents on laser scanners for measurement as well
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[23:45:06] <andypugh> I downloaded the Autodesk 3D scanning iPhone app, but apparently it id borked with iOS7...
[23:45:21] <CaptHindsight> I've found that lots of problems have been solved for years but the current patent system keeps them off the market
[23:47:13] <CaptHindsight> make me think of that last scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark in the warehouse
[23:47:44] <CaptHindsight> just safely kept locked up
[23:48:31] <CaptHindsight> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130925-how-to-use-3d-printing-in-lost-wax-casting-of-custom-lugs-for-a-bicycle-frame.html
[23:49:51] <CaptHindsight> The plastic moulds may be printed very fast