#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-06-09

[00:07:19] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/RS622-03.jpg
[00:07:51] <ssi> haha it's one of those
[00:08:00] <JT-Shop> aye
[00:08:11] <ssi> super weird
[00:08:20] <JT-Shop> what's that?
[00:08:30] <ssi> the front-wheel trikes
[00:08:32] <ssi> are super weird
[00:08:50] <JT-Shop> yes they do attract attention
[00:10:01] <Tom_itx> what sort of mileage?
[00:10:37] <JT-Shop> http://www.fuelly.com/driver/jthornton/spyder-rts
[00:10:41] <andypugh> What kind of Poker? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireplace_poker
[00:11:26] <JT-Shop> you draw a card at each stop and they write it on your card. The best and worst hand usually get some kind of prize.
[00:11:50] <JT-Shop> it's more of a fun way to donate to something needy and have fun with friends
[00:13:11] <ssi> was mostly an excuse to burn hundreds of dollars worth of avgas for us :P
[00:13:26] <JT-Shop> that sounds right
[00:13:27] <ssi> when the $100 hamburger just isn't impractical enough...
[00:13:29] <ssi> poker run!
[00:13:45] <JT-Shop> dad used to go to breakfast runs in his planes
[00:13:53] <ssi> yea, they're fun
[00:14:01] <ssi> I used to do flyouts a lot with the EAA group
[00:14:05] <ssi> but mostly they're dickbags
[00:14:07] <ssi> so I stopped
[00:14:32] <JT-Shop> that does tend to run folks away when people are not nice
[00:15:00] <JT-Shop> the bunch we hang with are all fun people and the Spyder people are the best
[00:15:11] <JT-Shop> well maybe except for me
[00:17:25] <ssi> haha
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[00:27:36] <JT-Shop> itunes sucks
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[00:41:22] <andypugh> itunes is OK if you consider it as a database frontend not a filing system.
[00:42:13] <andypugh> (and it is tending to improve, though not asymptotically)
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[00:50:46] <L84Supper> Do you like coffee or Starbucks? :)
[00:51:12] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:53:40] <andypugh> So, for reflowing SMT: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280807507869 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170976337578 ?
[00:54:24] <L84Supper> without any tweaking RT-Preempt on an AMD 880 chipset + Phenom-II X4 3.4GHz was ~20uS
[00:55:08] <ssi> andypugh: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1034145369/refloleo
[00:55:16] <pcw_home> Thats really good
[00:55:20] <L84Supper> I'd go for the second one (toaster oven)
[00:57:57] <L84Supper> pcw_home: which Mesa PCI or PCIe FPGA board has the most amount of free gates (after whats used for PCI)
[00:58:28] <andypugh> ssi: Not sure what value I get from my $59. (especially as I already have a programmable kiln/furnace controller I could use, which has the relays built-in, and cost £10)
[00:58:40] <pcw_home> Probably 3X20 or 5I24
[00:58:46] <ssi> andypugh: never mind then :)
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[00:59:05] <ssi> I don't have a kiln controller, but I did recently get a kiln, so a controller would be nice to have
[01:01:13] <andypugh> ssi: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170976337578 maybe?
[01:01:45] <pcw_home> I have a kiln that has a cone melting shutoff. I guess thats a controller
[01:01:45] <ssi> dunno
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[01:02:07] <ssi> pcw_home: I got cones with the kiln, but I dunno if there's some kind of sorcery that shuts off the heat
[01:02:21] <L84Supper> pcw_home: I don't see the 5i24
[01:02:37] <pcw_home> Not something you want to forget
[01:03:18] <pcw_home> 5I24 is new (well old but took me a while to get around to finishing the layout)
[01:03:37] <L84Supper> trying to find it on the website
[01:03:58] <ssi> what is it?
[01:04:17] <pcw_home> its a low profile PCI card like the 5I25 but 72 I/O and XC6SLX16 or XC6SLX25
[01:04:59] <L84Supper> how soon could 2-3 be in my hands?
[01:05:03] <pcw_home> sort of low cost 5I20 replacement
[01:05:15] <ssi> uses the same 50 pin connectors?
[01:05:27] <pcw_home> Yes
[01:05:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh, get a 4 element toaster oven
[01:05:33] <Tom_itx> for reflow
[01:05:43] <Tom_itx> more even heat than 2
[01:05:55] <pcw_home> It will be a few weeks at least
[01:06:08] <L84Supper> it will also depend on the size of the board you want to reflow
[01:06:15] <Tom_itx> andypugh, http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/toaster_oven/toaster_oven_index.php
[01:06:21] <Tom_itx> works good
[01:06:32] <L84Supper> pcw_home: ok, I'll check back, but I need a few things yesterday
[01:06:52] <ssi> L84Supper: what are you trying to do with it?
[01:07:37] <L84Supper> ssi: 7 axis of servo and some image processing
[01:07:44] <ssi> see
[01:07:46] <ssi> I see even
[01:07:52] <pcw_home> If you want a fancy FPGA card for linuxCNC you might want someone elses (we dont do fancy)
[01:08:14] <L84Supper> just checking
[01:08:34] <L84Supper> it doesn't all have to be on the same board
[01:09:15] <pcw_home> If you need high throughput you also need a bus mastering card (if its PCI/PCIE)
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[01:09:45] <L84Supper> also controlling printedheads with lots of LVDS channels
[01:10:01] <pcw_home> Yeah so you need bus mastering
[01:10:29] <pcw_home> how many I/O?
[01:10:52] <L84Supper> we can use multiple boards
[01:11:58] <pcw_home> The 3X20 might do but its no spring Chicken (Spartan3 based).
[01:12:38] <pcw_home> might be able to mount it on the printhead
[01:13:01] <L84Supper> each printhead has ~100 LVDS lines
[01:13:20] <pcw_home> lines or pairs?
[01:13:43] <L84Supper> so it depends on how many heads, lines so ~50 pairs
[01:14:36] <pcw_home> the 3X20 could do that (and pipe the PCIE up the printhead cable)
[01:14:44] <L84Supper> ~1200 nozzles firing up to 50KHz
[01:15:23] <pcw_home> 60 mbits/sec not very fast actually
[01:15:46] <L84Supper> the real bandwidth hog is the image processing
[01:16:39] <pcw_home> FPGA does compression?
[01:16:59] <L84Supper> the system scans for defects and then reworks those areas
[01:17:00] <ssi> what kind of printheads are these?
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[01:18:06] <L84Supper> ssi: the type you find in the fastest commercial printers, web rates in the meters per second @ 1200 dpi
[01:18:17] <ssi> I see
[01:18:36] <L84Supper> some have 5k nozzles ea
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[01:19:46] <L84Supper> pcw_home: the camera does lossless compression internally
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[01:20:41] <L84Supper> we just set levels and look for contrast out of range for defects, like a shiny scratch on a black surface
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[01:25:12] <L84Supper> ssi: http://global.kyocera.com/prdct/tfc/inkjet_printhead/
[01:25:52] <ssi> neat
[01:26:35] <L84Supper> ~$7500 ea
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[01:27:53] <andypugh> I was about to suggest that they looked not inexpensive.
[01:28:57] <L84Supper> vs $300 ea http://www.xaar.com/xaar128.aspx
[01:29:11] <andypugh> Surely full A4-width is an obvious next step?
[01:29:26] <L84Supper> they have made some
[01:30:02] <andypugh> You can just imagine the paper shooting out as the only moving part.
[01:30:19] <L84Supper> just a sec for the video
[01:30:49] <andypugh> Though I see a little pic there of sets of three overlapping, which I guess may be more cost-effective.
[01:31:53] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUTZRrQfy-E there is an a4 version as well
[01:32:16] <L84Supper> 0:42
[01:33:57] <L84Supper> prices will drop like a rock once we start printing printheads
[01:37:17] <andypugh> Aposite comment on the video "Finally, great printers just as paper really is becoming obsolete" :-)
[01:38:39] <L84Supper> the inkjet printhead manufacturers were lazy and just sat on patents, just like the 3dp patent holders
[01:39:16] <L84Supper> not much changed in 20 years, now that the patents are all expiring it's taking off
[01:40:09] <L84Supper> their business model was control, secrecy and milk every penny out of their old limited tech
[01:41:52] <L84Supper> silverbrook / memjet has thousands of patents on MEMS printheads, but MEMS as they applied it just uses silicon for fabrication
[01:44:28] <L84Supper> so if you can print micro-machines that aren't based old silicon fab techniques the field is wide open
[01:44:53] <L84Supper> or just move production to China
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[01:47:49] <L84Supper> andypugh: the down side to having a really wide head is if one nozzle clogs you lose the whole head
[01:48:04] <andypugh> Ah, yes.
[01:49:12] <L84Supper> some printers have redundant heads just for this purpose but now you have 2x heads
[01:50:02] <andypugh> I think I saw something in a linked video which had spare heads and hot-swap
[01:50:11] <FinboySlick> I wonder how we could go with OLED displays if we stuck to monochrome.
[01:50:30] <FinboySlick> How much resolution I mean.
[01:51:20] <L84Supper> it's easy to print OLED pixels @ 600 dpi (newsprint)
[01:52:01] <L84Supper> but again it's not the tech "It's the patents" that is holding things back
[01:52:05] <FinboySlick> If the output and wavelength is right, it could make for pretty cheap 3D printers.
[01:53:01] <FinboySlick> Things like retina displays and hyper-resolution are pushing the bar in the right direction for it anyway.
[01:54:57] <L84Supper> it's easy to print large high res monochrome panels
[01:55:01] <FinboySlick> At least, things literally coming out of the screen :)
[01:55:23] <FinboySlick> :s/least/last/
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[02:04:54] <PetefromTn> evening all...
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[02:20:44] <ssi> peeet
[02:21:37] <PetefromTn> ssi Hey man...
[02:21:44] <ssi> whats up
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[02:22:39] <PetefromTn> Meh not a lot, working on that huge pig roasting grill some more today. Customer came by and gave me some more cash that I did not ask for and seemed very happy with the results.
[02:23:14] <PetefromTn> I am running out of time tho the big shindig is this coming saturday. My whole family is invited so I need to hurry the hell up and finish this cooker.
[02:23:23] <PetefromTn> What's up with you?
[02:23:58] <ssi> nothing major
[02:24:01] <ssi> watching a movie
[02:24:15] <PetefromTn> Anything good?
[02:25:54] <ssi> moonrise kingdom
[02:27:15] <PetefromTn> Never heard of it.
[02:27:33] <PetefromTn> Been doing some Cad drawings in 3d for the first time thol
[02:27:40] <ssi> sweet :D
[02:27:49] <PetefromTn> Trying to learn my way around in the 3d realm here.
[02:30:56] <PetefromTn> Drew this up last night... http://snag.gy/Ytd3r.jpg
[02:31:20] <ssi> looks good
[02:32:01] <L84Supper> http://3dprintingindustry.com/2013/06/06/creating-electrodes-via-two-photon-polymerization/
[02:32:09] <L84Supper> ssi: ^^
[02:32:59] <ssi> awesome
[02:33:09] <L84Supper> this is where things are headed for 3DP on the sub-micron scale, 100nm features are common
[02:33:52] <L84Supper> printing micromachines like printheads, motors, valves etc
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[02:36:04] <L84Supper> http://www.photonics.com/Article.aspx?AID=26907 Two-Photon Polymerization: A New Approach to Micromachining
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[02:47:25] <PetefromTn> Man I really need to make up some kinda high speed spindle for my machine.
[02:47:49] <PetefromTn> Been asked by three different people about engravings like I used to make.
[02:48:54] <L84Supper> water cooled http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-3KW-NEW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-SPECIAL-FOR-METAL-CE-6-/181068857606?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a288b8106
[02:50:53] <PetefromTn> I thought about those but don't know where the hell I would mount it.
[02:51:19] <L84Supper> what machine?
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[02:51:33] <PetefromTn> my Cincinatti arrow 500 VMC
[02:53:00] <L84Supper> http://www.gaec.com/images/k12631a.jpg is that head a quick-change with just the twist of a knob? :)
[02:53:51] <PetefromTn> that's my machine alright but not sure what you mean?
[02:54:03] <PetefromTn> Its a Cat40 tooling setup with power drawbar and toolchanger
[02:54:47] <L84Supper> I know, just kidding about being able to swap out the spindle in 2 seconds
[02:58:10] <PetefromTn> sure would be sweet if you could...
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[03:01:40] <skunkworks> PetefromTn: is there a way to get gcode from freecad?
[03:02:06] <PetefromTn> skunkworks Well that depends...
[03:02:15] <PetefromTn> What kinda G code are you looking for?
[03:02:37] <skunkworks> well - for starters - 2.5d
[03:02:55] <PetefromTn> I mean if you want to run a 3d printer they have apparently already got a plugin or something that works
[03:03:16] <skunkworks> oh - no. (well - not yet) it would be for milling
[03:03:33] <PetefromTn> If you want to CNC mill or rout, they are currently working on a 3d Cam workbench but it is not ready yet.
[03:03:44] <skunkworks> right now I use acad12 and ace converter or hand coding gcode. :)
[03:03:47] <PetefromTn> I plan to use Cambam because it has 3d toolpathing.
[03:04:04] <PetefromTn> I don't hand code anything but the most simple stuff
[03:05:15] <PetefromTn> I am quite liking Freecad so far tho. I have been able to draw stuff much quicker and easier in 3d than anything else I have tried.
[03:05:42] <skunkworks> cool - I am not good at parametric cad..
[03:06:12] <PetefromTn> The only thing that kinda bums is that it is metric native units. But I have a macro that you can run at the end that will scale it up as well as a tweak that allows for four position decimal point dimensions
[03:06:28] <PetefromTn> It really is quite easy once you play with it a little bit.
[03:07:08] <PetefromTn> Also when you are drawing something complex in Freecad or any cad really it helps to occasionally remember to save your work in case of a system crash or power loss.
[03:08:10] <jdh> no auto saves?
[03:08:17] <PetefromTn> I have been haunting the Freecad IRC and there are a couple guys over there who really know the program well and are quite helpful. Nice to have a FREE program that is so powerful and has some real time support you don't have to pay for.
[03:08:28] <PetefromTn> Dunno never tried it yet, probably..
[03:09:16] <PetefromTn> I posted a screenshot of the last project I drew up the page a tad.
[03:09:51] <jdh> save early, save often. My mantra since my first computer class in the 80s
[03:10:15] <PetefromTn> yup LOL it can save you some heartache that is for sure.
[03:10:27] <PetefromTn> http://snag.gy/uMflk.jpg
[03:10:32] <PetefromTn> There it is..
[03:10:58] <PetefromTn> Not bad for less than a week with a brand new to me program and basically no experience with 3d cad LOL
[03:10:58] <jdh> cool. looks (superficially at least) like heeks
[03:11:25] <PetefromTn> Dunno never was able to get heeks...tried to download it but could not.
[03:11:46] <PetefromTn> Apparently Heekscad is also no longer being supported or worked on
[03:13:42] <PetefromTn> Its apparently much like other 3d Parametric modelers with history based modeling tree and using 2d sketches to create 3d models.
[03:14:32] <PetefromTn> They are still working on the assembly workbench it apparently is nearing release but I honestly don't really need it. I am more interested to see what they come up with for their free integrated cam.
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[03:24:56] <PetefromTn> http://snag.gy/uMflk.jpg
[03:25:16] <PetefromTn> Do you guys thing this is a crazy idea or maybe might just work ..
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[04:14:45] <Tom_itx> skunkworks, acad12 is pretty dated
[04:17:21] <jdh> 2d cad hasn't changed much
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[04:34:28] <Tom_itx> no
[04:34:49] <Tom_itx> iirc 12 was 3d
[04:35:26] <Tom_itx> i knew a couple guys that loved acad
[04:35:39] <Tom_itx> used NC Polaris with it
[04:37:25] <Tom_itx> is that pete's pendant?
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[06:49:25] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:01:13] <whfxy> hello
[08:02:10] <BirdyNumNum> Hi
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[10:29:52] <RyanS> Is the interpolation on a converted cnc desktop mill okay for helical boring?
[10:31:23] <archivist> first think where the interpolation is done, cam, or cnc control or ..
[10:37:21] <RyanS> What has the most impact.... Mechanics on the mill itself would seem to be the hardest to fix?
[10:41:19] <archivist> where mechanics is concerned, just engineer the mill to have 0 backlash
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[10:44:31] <abetusk> I'm passively thinking of making my own spindle, possibly using an outrunner prop engine from somewhere like hobbyking. I'm a little confused how to assemble it and how to minimize runout. Could someone give me a kind of high level overview of how to construct a spindle like this? I have an ER11 collet in mind...
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[10:49:35] <jthornton> might start with an ER11 collet holder
[10:55:54] <archivist> I have a few spindle bookmarks http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/ and http://www.dieselrc.com/projects/cncspindle/ the other is currently dead
[10:57:23] <syyl_> the idle sound of that spindle is ok
[10:57:29] <syyl_> but the machining sounds horrible :D
[10:57:37] <archivist> raynerd needs to fix his site!
[10:58:31] <jthornton> neat write up on the spindle
[10:59:14] <archivist> forgot to link this properly :) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/12184-high_speed_spindle_sieg_x2_mill_--5.html
[11:00:34] <archivist> I got a holder ready to make something but it got "used" in my lashed up grinder
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[11:10:35] <RyanS> 3+2 axis milling as opposed to 5 axis simultaneous. is The CAM software less complex and more affordable in the former case?
[11:19:42] <abetusk> how do you attach the bearings to the case?
[11:19:46] <abetusk> press fit?
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[11:25:26] <archivist> press/tight
[11:26:08] <archivist> sloppy would need locktite or other bodge
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[11:34:42] <archivist> if you listen to that spindle you can hear chatter, either loose shaft in bearing or bearing in housing or poor mounting and machine flex
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[11:37:21] <archivist> there are three distinct sounds, the motor and its whine/hum, the cutter on the metal, and a grumble, the grumble is the chatter
[11:38:05] <jthornton> and the sounds of recut
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[11:41:09] <RyanS> Is there a cheap way of adding electronic variable speed to a belt drive lathe? Probably need a higher torque motor
[11:41:31] <jthornton> a VFD
[11:41:32] <archivist> vfd and a 3 phase motor
[11:41:58] <RyanS> Need to replace the motor?
[11:41:59] <jthornton> use the Automation Direct GS2 and you can control it with LinuxCNC very easy
[11:42:31] <RyanS> Its manual
[11:42:37] <archivist> depends on the motors winding
[11:42:54] <archivist> and mains you want to run on
[11:43:05] <RyanS> Belt changing is a pain in the ass
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[11:45:35] <archivist> get a lathe with a mechanical varispeed , some have levers and a gearbox others have sprung pulleys
[11:46:28] <RyanS> Too late :)
[11:47:05] <archivist> colchester chipmaster
[11:47:50] <RyanS> Actually it's my old man's lathe.. He doesn't research, just purchasesn :p
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[11:49:34] <archivist> you can add a varispeed drive between the motor and spindle
[11:50:24] <RyanS> Sounds expensive/complicated
[11:50:56] <archivist> http://www.snaintonwoodworking.com/index.php/accessories/machine-accessories/machine-drive-belts/belt-to-fit-vari-speed-woodlathes.html
[11:52:18] <RyanS> oh pully gets 'resized'
[11:56:13] <RyanS> $245 750w motor and vfd which could handle up to 1500w
[11:57:25] <archivist> motors do not like large torque for long periods at low rpm so there is a limit to the vfd method
[11:57:48] <archivist> they lose cooling at low speed
[11:59:30] <RyanS> DC motor conversion?
[12:05:55] <RyanS> I have a 24v wheelchair motor...
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[14:55:51] <tjtr33> L84Supper, thx for the link to printing graphite. might be a way to reduce edm electrode manufacture
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[15:55:33] <PetefromTn> Afternoon linuxCNC folks..
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[16:02:03] <IchGuckLive> hi all
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[16:22:51] <IchGuckLive> nice and shinie wetter now in germany after a wave of thundershowers
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[16:40:01] <Tom_itx> nice quiet morning on the prarie
[16:40:16] <IchGuckLive> no buffoloes on the run #
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[16:42:34] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today
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[17:08:23] <pimperle__> hi
[17:09:42] <pimperle__> i'm working on my first project with linuxcnc and just started the machine for the first time. currently it only consists of a pid-controlled dc-motor + position encoder, but it seems to work. However, when editing the config and restarting linuxcnc, the motor starts to spin during startup of linuxcnc. is there an easy way to prevent this? do all hal stuff after the gui has loaded?
[17:09:50] <pimperle__> or is it a bug in my hal config?
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[17:13:25] <jthornton> a bug in your electronics
[17:14:35] <pimperle__> oh, that's bad
[17:14:37] <jthornton> your driver should not be enabled until LinuxCNC is loaded and you have turned off the e stop and powered up
[17:15:06] <pimperle__> which driver? the motor-driver (piece of hardware)
[17:15:14] <jthornton> yes
[17:15:42] <pimperle__> ah, ok. thanks for the hint, i didn't know that.
[17:15:58] <pimperle__> i guess i'll just turn the powersupply off each time i restart linuxcnc
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[17:16:24] <jthornton> that will work too
[17:17:04] <pimperle__> yes, unfortunately everything happens on a single pcb so i will probably not be able to control it's power via my parport without powering it on :)
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[17:18:42] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:18:47] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, ever make a nested cube?
[17:20:10] <jthornton> no
[17:20:28] <Tom_itx> i've seen a few but never tried one
[17:20:36] <Tom_itx> was thinking about it
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[17:24:11] <Tom_itx> http://bgerber1.weebly.com/nested-cubes.html
[17:24:19] <Tom_itx> that one looks kindof interesting
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[17:53:24] <Tom_itx> http://www.cnccookbook.com/index.htm
[17:53:30] <Tom_itx> might be of use to someone here
[17:55:42] <archivist> it costs money!
[17:56:29] <archivist> whereas http://openscam.com/ is open source
[17:56:41] <fragalot_> lol open scam
[17:56:43] <Tom_itx> air is all that's free anymore... oh and linuxcnc :)
[17:57:13] <archivist> name is exceeeedingly unfortunate
[17:57:14] <PetefromTn> LOL so's Freecad..
[17:57:23] <Tom_itx> i was looking at the links at the bottom mainly
[17:58:02] <archivist> and for the adventurous there is vismach included in linuxcnc
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[18:32:50] <syyl_> cnc cookbook is generaly not to bad
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[19:06:46] <skunkworks> he is a bit mach biased.
[19:07:47] <Tom_itx> alot are until they 'see the light'
[19:08:50] <skunkworks> heh
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[19:36:52] <andypugh> Bob Warfield was subscribed to LinuxCNC for a while, but appears to have disappeared from the users list.
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[19:42:56] <skunkworks> andypugh: bringing acupins... (and the shields for the arduino we played with_)
[19:44:39] <skunkworks> he keeps saying that cv doesn't work. It works just not the same or as good as mach... (maybe) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/140520
[19:46:31] <archivist> he is what you call a difficult customer
[19:47:21] <skunkworks> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,21035.0.html
[19:48:01] <skunkworks> that guy thinks linuxcnc works better :)
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[20:43:18] <andypugh> I think they may both be looking at the same thing from different perspectives. LinuxCNC slows down on small-radius curves to stay with accelleration limits. It may be that Mach doesn't (you can easily see how an algorithm might only honour individual axis acelleration limits, rather than trajectory limits. A constant-velocity circle might be high acelleration or zero accelleration, depending on how you look at it.
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[20:44:37] <ssi> mach has an option for cv vs exact stop
[20:44:48] <ssi> but I think it does cv the same way that linuxcnc does (or is supposed to anyway)
[20:45:04] <ssi> it trades off exact path for cv, by rounding corners to some degree to stay within accel parameters
[20:45:21] <ssi> which, if you're cutting a circle made of line segments, that corner rounding actually helps :D
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[21:24:16] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:39:29] <Tom_itx> what's the best way to check the Tram on a mill?
[21:39:52] <pfred1> a tramming gauge?
[21:40:32] <pfred1> I just stick a dial indicator in a chuck with a plate on the table
[21:40:34] <ssi> Tom_itx: checking it is easy with an indicator mounted in the spindle
[21:40:43] <ssi> don't even need a plate on the table
[21:40:50] <Tom_itx> that's kinda what i figured
[21:40:59] <pfred1> but they make these special arms that go into the chuck that hold 2 dial indicators
[21:41:05] <ssi> yea like the eztram
[21:41:10] <ssi> or protram or whatever
[21:41:12] <ssi> I have one
[21:41:12] <Tom_itx> i only have one dial though
[21:41:17] <Tom_itx> or at least one good one
[21:41:19] <ssi> you can do it with one DTI
[21:41:29] <pfred1> yeah one is good enough you just have to spin it more
[21:41:33] <Tom_itx> i got a dial and a last word
[21:41:52] <ssi> get a holder like this: http://www.shars.com/products/view/1456/Test_Indicator_Holder_Arm_Only
[21:42:15] <ssi> touch it on one side of the table, spin 180 degrees and touch on the other side
[21:42:25] <Tom_itx> i've got a similar holder
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[21:42:27] <ssi> you should get the same value on both sides if it's in tram
[21:42:34] <ssi> do that along X, do it along Y
[21:42:41] <pfred1> it helps to put a flat plate on top of the T slots
[21:42:53] <pfred1> but you really don't have to do that either
[21:42:56] <ssi> alternatively, you can put a cylinder square on the table and run the quill up and down
[21:42:58] <Tom_itx> i'm using my tooling plate
[21:43:04] <ssi> with the indicator touching the side of the cylinder
[21:43:10] <ssi> if it's in tram, the needle won't move
[21:43:39] <ssi> the protram is nice because you can just touch both indicators down, and move the head until they read the same
[21:43:57] <ssi> instead of bump and check
[21:43:59] <pfred1> you can tell if the table is out of whack when you face mill too it'll drag on one side
[21:43:59] <ssi> which is tedious
[21:44:13] <ssi> yea if it's in tram, a face mill or flycutter will cut overlapping circles
[21:44:15] <ssi> like the mastercard logo
[21:44:27] <ssi> if it's out of tram, you'll only get one side cutting
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[21:58:08] <Tom_itx> i suppose if i'm not certain my plate is flat i should take it off and work off the table itself
[21:58:17] <ssi> I would start with the table
[21:58:41] <ssi> does your machine have a usable quill?
[21:58:51] <Tom_itx> it's a friggin sherline
[21:58:57] <Tom_itx> it doesn't have much useable on it :)
[21:59:00] <ssi> hahah
[21:59:04] <ssi> well the reason I ask
[21:59:08] <Tom_itx> but i do what i can
[21:59:10] <ssi> if you're on the table, the slots can get in the way
[21:59:14] <ssi> so like, on my 9x42 manual,
[21:59:14] <Tom_itx> i know
[21:59:16] <ssi> I'll set a quill stop
[21:59:26] <ssi> run it down to the stop with the indicator on one side, zero the dial
[21:59:36] <ssi> pick it up a bit, swing it 180, and run it down to the stop and check the dial
[21:59:54] <ssi> but on a machine without a quill, it may be more involved :)
[22:00:08] <Tom_itx> i'll get it
[22:00:21] <Tom_itx> i checked it once but it's been a while
[22:01:20] <andypugh> ssi: The cylinder + travel measurment is not quite the same as the table-rotate-table measurment.
[22:01:48] <Tom_itx> you'd have to measure both travels on the x and y side of the cylinder
[22:02:04] <andypugh> The former checks the angle of the column to the table. The latter checks the alignment of the spindle rotation axis to the table.
[22:02:32] <andypugh> Ideally these are the same thing :-)
[22:02:35] <ssi> you're right
[22:02:47] <ssi> if your spindle isn't dead parallel to your quill travel they'll disagree
[22:02:53] <Tom_itx> bbl
[22:02:56] <ssi> but on my machine they tend to be pretty close :)
[22:04:17] <andypugh> A car brake disc can be a good thing to run the dial indicator round. If you have one lying about. (ideally not one that is so worn that it was taken off to throw away). Some of them are so cheap that you can buy one just for this purpose.
[22:04:38] <ssi> yeah ford truck brake rotors are like $12
[22:04:57] <ssi> but I'd be worried that it's not flat
[22:05:14] <ssi> if the front side of the rotor isn't dead nuts parallel to the backside, then you're just building in bad tram
[22:05:37] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300909853012
[22:05:54] <pfred1> you could hand scrape it until it is perfect
[22:06:05] <ssi> yeah that sounds practical ;)
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[22:06:13] <t12> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300909853012
[22:06:15] <ssi> and it'd be tough to scrape the top side
[22:06:15] <t12> er
[22:06:28] <ssi> tough to spot it rather
[22:06:38] <andypugh> They are ground flat. Flat/parallel is critically important to brake discs. They might be all over the place otherwise, but the thickness will be exactly constant.
[22:06:47] <ssi> gotcha
[22:08:15] <pfred1> andypugh a lot of calipers float on pins
[22:08:44] <pfred1> my old Volvos have fixed calipers they are picky about rotors
[22:09:22] <andypugh> Yes, but that is no help in avoiding judder due to thickness variations. Floating calipers helps if the rotors are not square to the wheel axis.
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[22:09:50] <pfred1> just tell the customer that is the ABS
[22:10:24] <ssi> ahaha
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[22:13:22] <pfred1> my little machining project came out good today. I had to make a mount for this monitor so it would go onto my monitor arm
[22:13:47] * pfred1 upgraded
[22:15:16] <pfred1> Screen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 2960 x 1050, maximum 16384 x 16384
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[22:24:41] <andypugh> I didn't do much, but I did do a three-prong shaft coupling to add a manual-over-ride handle to the ballscrew. It's something I found in machineries handbook, three cuts with a Woodruff cutter. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cVGGhnwqpKdGbTQADaf9HdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink and https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/abzo-Io3-DMkbvox4DLo19MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:25:30] <pfred1> is that a servo?
[22:26:26] <andypugh> You put the bottom face of the cutter exactly on the centre line, cut all the way across, rotate 120, repeat, rotate 120 for the last cut. You end up with a hermaphrodite clutch coupling.
[22:26:35] <andypugh> Yes, 600W Lenze servo.
[22:27:35] <andypugh> Which is partly why I want to be able to not have the handle on most of the time, whizzing round at gonad-height.
[22:28:45] <pfred1> so you can just take out that center nut and pop it off?
[22:29:41] <andypugh> No, even easier than that. There were two photo links there.
[22:30:15] <pfred1> yes the handle is off in the second one
[22:30:51] <andypugh> The handle has a matching clutch thingy, and a rod that fits into the centre hole on the ballscrew. I just slot the handle in, engage the clutch, do what I want, then pull the handle out again. No fasteners at all.
[22:31:09] <pfred1> did you make that timing pulley?
[22:31:18] <andypugh> Not that one.
[22:32:31] <andypugh> (That's an old picture, the clutch I made today was on the other ballscrew, actually). If I was doing it now then I would have made that pulley too.
[22:32:35] <pfred1> I got my Y axis just about done I need to run it now and see how it works
[22:33:40] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/eeqVuW5.jpg & http://i.imgur.com/utBBzvx.jpg
[22:35:16] <pfred1> but I got sidetracked setting this monitor up
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[22:45:05] <andypugh> Did you make the blue parts, or are they a standard component?
[22:46:03] <pfred1> yeah they are plywood
[22:46:28] <pfred1> with 2x4s I ripped and channeled and glued
[22:46:41] <pfred1> I have a pic someplace of the setup I made them with
[22:47:07] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/EXhhU.jpg
[22:47:38] <pfred1> it was kind of spooky cutting that dado channel into them
[22:47:54] <pfred1> but I lived
[22:48:35] <pfred1> if this mechanism works OK I'm thinking about remaking it with steel angle or square tube or something
[22:48:58] <andypugh> Send the wood parts to a foundry and get cast-iron back?
[22:49:15] <pfred1> that would be wild
[22:49:49] <pfred1> even made out of structural steel I think it would be nice
[22:49:55] <andypugh> That red-painted casting in my earlier pictures? I had that made for me, cost £25 (I supplied the wood pattern)
[22:50:19] <pfred1> I wouldn't even know where to go have that done
[22:50:42] <pfred1> nothing but corn and soy bean fields by me
[22:50:48] <andypugh> Where are you?
[22:51:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh, unfortunately a brake disk won't fit under my sherline
[22:51:09] <pfred1> I live in Delaware in Sussex county
[22:51:25] <pfred1> Tom_itx one for a bicycle would
[22:51:39] <Tom_itx> i bet those are 3x the cost too
[22:52:01] <pfred1> a cold rolled plate should suffice
[22:52:07] <pfred1> they are pretty accurate
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[22:53:35] <pfred1> we had nice surface grinders at the machine shop I used to work at
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[22:54:03] <pfred1> had one with a 4 foot diameter wheel and a 12 foot bed that was water cooled
[22:54:09] <andypugh> It does look like Delaware is short of iron foundries. There are a few in PA. This one does "historical restorations" so are probably happy with one-offs: http://www.bbfoundry.com
[22:54:27] <Xfriend> t6560 ?
[22:54:44] <pfred1> andypugh I'm about 2.5 hours from philly
[22:55:11] <andypugh> I am about the same distance from the foundry I use.
[22:55:29] <pfred1> yeah they're not around the corner so much anymore are they?
[22:55:37] <Xfriend> t6560 Chinese?
[22:55:55] <pfred1> TB6560?
[22:56:07] <andypugh> There are much closer ones to me, but I have a friend with a good relationship with the one in Dudley.
[22:56:33] <pfred1> TH6560AHQ to be precise
[22:56:47] <Xfriend> TB6560 Chinese?
[22:56:50] <pfred1> TB even
[22:57:16] <pfred1> Xfriend do you mean Chinese stepper driver boards?
[22:57:37] <Xfriend> pfred1, yes...!!!
[22:58:00] <andypugh> Can you phrase your question in the form of a question?
[22:58:45] <Xfriend> my z axis is like stuck and run
[22:59:15] <Xfriend> but it doesnt moves at all
[23:00:36] <andypugh> Try inverting the "step" pin in stepconf
[23:01:07] <pfred1> make sure the step space is 5000ns
[23:01:21] <pfred1> those chips need a long step duration
[23:01:50] <pfred1> under 5000ns mine wouldn't run at all
[23:04:37] <Xfriend> pfred1, dude I'm rookie I don't know how to configure
[23:04:38] <pfred1> Xfriend do not ever under any circumstance disconnect or connect the motor leads to the board while the board is under power
[23:05:02] <pfred1> you will smoke those chips for sure
[23:05:33] <pfred1> stepconf I think it the command
[23:06:43] <pfred1> yeah step space I think that is the one that has to be 5000ns
[23:07:05] <pfred1> although I think step time can be reduced I'm not sure
[23:07:40] <Xfriend> pfred1, I have to home the axis ?
[23:08:10] <pfred1> Xfriend are you just trying to get the motors to run?
[23:08:23] <Xfriend> no
[23:08:41] <Xfriend> just I'm trying to do what you told me
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[23:09:04] <pfred1> oh you're in Axis?
[23:09:14] <Xfriend> but the program is telling me I need to home
[23:09:20] <pfred1> yes you configure your machine with stepconf
[23:09:30] <pfred1> you have to configure before you run
[23:09:58] <Xfriend> I install rf -30 and I can home any axis
[23:10:32] <Xfriend> but if I run tb6560 I can home axis but motor wont work
[23:10:38] <pfred1> you have an RF-30 with TB6560 drivers on it?
[23:10:46] <Xfriend> yes
[23:10:52] <pfred1> seems a bit marginal
[23:11:25] <Xfriend> i dont download it from the website
[23:11:36] <pfred1> LinuxCNC?
[23:11:41] <Xfriend> yes
[23:12:02] <pfred1> is what you are using Mach3?
[23:12:14] <Xfriend> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TB6560 <<< the upload
[23:12:41] <pfred1> I think some of those chinese driver boards come wiht bootleg copies of mach3
[23:12:54] <pfred1> well I guess the demo
[23:13:22] <pfred1> restricted to 2000 lines of gcode
[23:15:12] <Xfriend> pfred1, so what I can do ?
[23:15:21] <Xfriend> to fix that problem ?
[23:15:28] <pfred1> Xfriend I don't even know what you are doing now
[23:16:08] <Xfriend> waiting for you to see if you give any idea how to fix this problem?
[23:16:09] <Xfriend> waiting for you to see if you give any idea how to fix this problem
[23:16:29] <pfred1> are you running LinuxCNC?
[23:16:40] <Xfriend> yes
[23:17:35] <pfred1> so you are using a supplied configuration file?
[23:18:20] <pfred1> one that came with your board?
[23:18:22] <Xfriend> Yes I downloaded from http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TB6560
[23:19:00] <pfred1> Xfriend OK have you run stepconf with that configuration to test it out?
[23:19:27] <Xfriend> I wrote on MDI stepconf
[23:19:33] <Xfriend> and I get a error
[23:19:49] <Xfriend> unknown command
[23:19:50] <pfred1> well that is an issue with using axis
[23:21:12] <Xfriend> well....!!
[23:23:31] <pfred1> hey who can i send wiki proofreading suggestions to?
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[23:25:11] <Xfriend> what board do recommend ?
[23:25:31] <pfred1> for an RF-30 gecko drives
[23:25:52] <pfred1> TB6560 are kind of weak
[23:26:30] <Xfriend> dont said that I fell like an ass hole
[23:26:46] <Xfriend> lol
[23:27:17] <pfred1> well they are on the low end of stepper drivers mostly because they are limited to their input voltage
[23:27:43] <Xfriend> how much will cost RF-30 gecko ??
[23:28:45] <pfred1> http://www.geckodrive.com/
[23:33:21] <Xfriend> pfred1, what driver should i select on driver type
[23:34:36] <pfred1> anything would be better than a TB6560
[23:35:05] <pfred1> mariss' drivers go up to 80V I think
[23:35:38] <Xfriend> it too much for this board
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[23:38:39] <pfred1> I have an RF-32 and I couldn't see running it with TB6560 motor drivers on it
[23:39:22] <pfred1> I have an X axis power feed on it which is much more powerful than a TG6560 and it has a time moving the table
[23:39:56] <pfred1> TB6560 even
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[23:41:18] <pfred1> Xfriend does your machine have ball screw lead screw conversion?
[23:42:41] <Xfriend> no
[23:43:22] <Xfriend> have like switches on and off
[23:43:39] <pfred1> the spindle switch
[23:44:24] <Xfriend> yes
[23:45:38] <pfred1> Xfriend your machine look like this? http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8026/millpic.jpg
[23:46:07] <Xfriend> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-3-5A-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Board-Controller-With-Cable-/200931985414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec87ac806
[23:47:03] <pfred1> yes i have seen chinese TB6560 boards
[23:47:59] <Xfriend> have you see any of this guy working perfect ?
[23:48:19] <pfred1> Xfriend i made my own before the imported boards were popular http://www.instructables.com/id/TB6560-Microstepping-Bipolar-Chopper-Stepper-Motor/
[23:48:51] <pfred1> Xfriend mine work pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbeyNNBZ68
[23:49:49] <Xfriend> are u the who made that board ?
[23:49:58] <pfred1> Xfriend yes i made my own
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[23:50:44] <Xfriend> I like you job
[23:50:50] <Xfriend> I like your job
[23:50:51] <pfred1> thank you
[23:51:07] <Xfriend> you are also
[23:51:09] <pfred1> today it is better to buy the boards
[23:51:58] <pfred1> but there are still some tricks to getting them to run right
[23:52:05] <Xfriend> do I have to through away ths board or I have to buy a new one ?
[23:52:28] <pfred1> it is hard for me to say sitting here
[23:52:50] <pfred1> if I had the board and could examine it I would know what was going on
[23:53:35] <pfred1> have you checked the switch settings on your board?
[23:53:52] <pfred1> like do you know what step mode you are trying to run?
[23:54:12] <pfred1> some of them are better than others
[23:54:50] <Xfriend> I have play with it right now I put it on 100%
[23:55:00] <pfred1> personally I like the highest microstepping mode a PC can generate pulses for
[23:55:31] <pfred1> I just got a new PC so I could generate more pulses for my drivers