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[00:36:06] <ssi> I tried to get into rc flying, and the club politics kept me out
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[00:47:43] <jdh> there is a lot of that around
[00:47:46] <RyanS> I crashed a few......
[00:48:02] <jdh> me too
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[00:48:21] <jdh> last time was 1980 though
[00:48:43] <RyanS> stupid I should have stuck with the trainer for longer
[00:48:44] <Valen> by default does emc still use its pid loop when running steppers?
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[00:52:24] <ssi> which pid loop would that be
[00:53:53] <Valen> I'm not sure....
[00:54:10] <Valen> realising I have nfi how emc works with steppers
[00:54:29] <Valen> I always presumed it ran them like servos with stepgen faking it
[00:54:42] <ssi> well I think typically the stepgens get fed position
[00:55:00] <ssi> and the stepgen component itself just knows that to get from the position I'm in to the position i'm commanded to, I have to pulse x times
[00:55:39] <Tom_itx> Valen, i think if you miss steps you just miss them
[00:55:52] <Valen> not talking about that
[00:56:03] <Valen> more how it gets from gcode to steps out
[00:56:16] <Valen> and how that differs from gcode to servo out
[00:56:29] <Tom_itx> probably very similar
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[00:56:37] <Tom_itx> so many steps per inch or mm
[00:56:43] <ssi> well in servo mode, you have a position command, and the pid component uses feedback to minimize error
[00:56:48] <Tom_itx> so many ticks of the encoder with a servo
[00:56:50] <ssi> in stepper mode there's no pid
[00:56:57] <ssi> there's a position command, and the stepgen ticks
[00:57:05] <Tom_itx> at least with a servo it has a chance to correct it
[00:57:16] <Valen> my mental model was it still ran through the pid just as a "passthrough"
[00:57:36] <Valen> with the step rate coming from the error between commanded and actual position
[00:57:39] <ssi> I don't think there's a pid component at all
[00:57:45] <ssi> but maybe I'm wrong
[00:57:49] <ssi> it's been awhile since I setup a stepper machine
[00:57:53] <Valen> you're probably right
[00:57:57] <Valen> i've never done one
[00:57:57] <Tom_itx> steppers have no position feedback
[00:58:13] <jdh> unless you add position feedback
[00:58:19] <Tom_itx> righ
[00:58:20] <Tom_itx> t
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[01:03:34] <RyanS> the 'DRO' on emc, if your motors miss a step, you would be getting a false reading right?
[01:04:06] <ssi> correct
[01:04:39] <Tom_itx> the dro keeps going even if the stepper doesn't
[01:05:54] <RyanS> hmm, I guess closed loop will deal with problems like that.
[01:06:21] <Tom_itx> yup
[01:07:03] <RyanS> I would have thought machining centres would also have encoders on the ways too..
[01:08:14] <RyanS> or some redundancy in the DRO anyway
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[01:14:44] <Valen> they often do use scales on the axies
[01:15:01] <Valen> but they use those for position feedback and the encoders on the motors for velocity
[01:17:55] <RyanS> Makes sense I guess that's the whole point of closed loop
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[01:22:40] <ssi> as long as there's no lost motion between the encoder and the joint, you don't need direct feedback from the joint
[01:22:47] <ssi> encoders on the motors is plenty sufficient
[01:23:16] <RyanS> That laser camera measurement technique you were talking about, does it have a technical name? Not having any luck on Google
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[01:24:08] <Tom_itx> ssi, where does backlash comp come into play in that equasion?
[01:24:29] <ssi> Tom_itx: ideally in the mechanicals ;)
[01:24:32] <ssi> ie dont' have backlash
[01:24:41] <Tom_itx> but everything does
[01:24:44] <Tom_itx> to some degree
[01:24:49] <Tom_itx> or will with wear
[01:24:51] <Valen> you can have less backlash than you can measure though
[01:24:57] <ssi> yes
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[01:25:16] <Valen> we have less than .001mm backlash
[01:25:20] <ssi> my hnc has resolvers that are driven from the leadscrew through a belt reduction
[01:25:28] <ssi> and it still can hold 0.00002" without backlash comp
[01:25:33] <Valen> a pair of ballnuts with a spring between them
[01:27:23] <Valen> well, a set of belville washers with a few hundred KG on them ;->
[01:28:00] <RyanS> does it matter if there is backlash as long as the controller 'knows about it' and its predictable?
[01:28:09] <Valen> backlash is bad
[01:28:16] <Valen> imagine trying to mill a circle
[01:28:30] <Valen> say 10mm in diamiter, with 5mm of backlash in your screw
[01:29:02] <Valen> the controller needs to rip through that 5mm of backlash in zero time as you change direction
[01:29:24] <RyanS> Can't the control software compensate?
[01:29:34] <ssi> with infinite acceleration, yes
[01:29:35] <eric_unterhausen> if a mobo takes atx 24 ps, is there any hope that a standard atx ps will work?
[01:29:48] <Valen> sometimes
[01:30:08] <Valen> most newer mbos will have the 24 pin port on them but may be able to run with 20 pin
[01:30:10] <eric_unterhausen> it also has atx12
[01:30:10] <Valen> check the manual
[01:30:15] <ssi> there's also the issue that with backlash in the system, the cutter can grab and slam the table back and forth the amount of the lash
[01:30:19] <ssi> and no software is compensating for that
[01:30:46] <RyanS> i see
[01:31:07] <RyanS> Manual machines probably not so much an issue?
[01:31:22] <ssi> on manual machines the practice is to always feed one direction
[01:31:22] <Valen> still an issue
[01:31:26] <ssi> so you're always working against the lash
[01:31:33] <ssi> but there's still the issue of cutter grab when climb cutting
[01:31:35] <Valen> at least for the thing vibrating
[01:31:44] <ssi> that's the reason conventional milling is taught
[01:31:53] <ssi> you're feeding into the teeth
[01:31:57] <ssi> rather than with them
[01:32:13] <ssi> so the cutter is trying to push against you, keeping the lash loaded
[01:32:18] <RyanS> ah
[01:32:38] <ssi> most manual machines have a TON of lash
[01:32:48] <ssi> my 9x42 mill has almost 0.100"
[01:33:02] <Tom_itx> that's alot
[01:33:04] <ssi> yep
[01:33:19] <ssi> but it doesn't bother me because I have a DRO with glass scales :P
[01:37:45] <RyanS> I keep hearing the stories about finding old turret mills "everywhere" for ridiculously cheap. They mustn't be talking about Australia?
[01:38:34] <RyanS> $4000-$6000 seems to be the going price around here
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[01:39:37] <Valen> not in .au Ryan
[01:39:56] <Valen> the only ones that are cheap are the ones that are too big to move
[01:45:51] <RyanS> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ikegai-AX25N-CNC-lathe-12-tool-turret-/271218127064?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f25dc30d8
[01:46:03] <RyanS> The end of the first paragraph is hilarious
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[01:46:30] <toastyde2th> Ikeagi, good lathes
[01:46:31] <Valen> rofl
[01:47:05] <RyanS> I can see how the coffee grinder would make a difference.....
[01:47:22] <Valen> i think perhaps there may have been some hyperbole
[01:48:40] <RyanS> It sounds like a tall tale
[01:50:03] <RyanS> The cost of tools would be too much
[01:56:37] <RyanS> Live tooling on that turret?
[01:59:17] <toastyde2th> no
[02:00:02] <toastyde2th> also most residential power can't handle that much current
[02:00:21] <toastyde2th> it's kinda insane how much peak power they pull
[02:01:17] <RyanS> A lot of houses with central air-conditioning have three-phase... Probably only have 30 amp
[02:01:35] <toastyde2th> ya, 240v, 30-40 amp
[02:03:31] <RyanS> Live tooling is more recent technology ?
[02:09:21] <toastyde2th> much
[02:09:24] <toastyde2th> and much more expensive v
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[02:47:49] <RyanS> wtf is an oil country lathe?
[02:53:50] <Jymmm> a rock?
[02:54:56] <Valen> guess its from texas?
[02:55:17] <RyanS> lol I was just about to say that
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[03:20:44] <skunkworks> probably really really big?
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[03:39:23] <qdc> I always assumed it was something only an oil company could afford
[03:40:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/what-makes-oil-country-lathe-74514/
[03:42:11] <Tom_itx> heck, they even have a website
[03:42:13] <Tom_itx> http://www.oil-country-lathes.com/
[03:47:02] <RyanS> yee haw
[03:47:28] <RyanS> Maybe they manufacture oil drills
[03:47:37] <RyanS> rig
[03:53:45] <RyanS> "Billy Bob we done gone have enough room for 'nother oil country lathe in the barn"
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[04:04:39] <toastyde2th> RyanS,
[04:04:52] <toastyde2th> oil country lathes are generally:
[04:05:16] <toastyde2th> Big as fuck spindle bore, 25-30" swing or larger, but a relatively short bed _for the spindle size_
[04:05:48] <toastyde2th> they'll also have an elongated spindle housing with a chuck on the other end of the spindle as well
[04:06:14] <toastyde2th> they'll have a bed long enough to do SOME boring, but not a lot - maybe 10-15' long
[04:06:20] <toastyde2th> the idea is to be able to work on drill string
[04:10:55] * roycroft could make some crude, bawdy comment about beds long enough for boring, but decides not to
[04:15:24] <ssi> commenting on the comment is still commenting :D
[04:17:36] <roycroft> of course
[04:17:55] <roycroft> but any interpretation is not my responsibility
[04:19:04] <Valen> you know I hadn't made that interpertation untill you made the comment
[04:20:07] <RyanS> Besides you don't necessarily even need a bed
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[04:21:32] <roycroft> true, and a rotary table could add a whole new dimension
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[05:17:39] <ssi> woooo
[05:17:48] <ssi> device tree overlays are somewhat conquered
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[06:48:48] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:52:43] <lomach> Hi all, Can anybody tell me the best way to get a high speed analogue signal into linuxcnc. I want to monitor an accelerometer if possible
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[09:18:16] <skroon> hi all
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[09:24:46] <archivist_herron> lomach, more than one way, what will you be doing with the information
[09:24:57] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:33:41] <lomach> archivest_heron - I want to balance my spindle if possible. Only wanted to temporarily get the info into halscope
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[09:49:05] <skroon> I was wondering about milling a straight line into a material, your actually doing conventional and climb milling at the same time right?
[09:49:14] <skroon> is this a good/bad thing?
[09:49:23] <skroon> perhaps need special drill to do this?
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[11:13:27] <exc> anybody know of any linuxcnc meetups in Germany (Stuttgart) or planned integrator meetings?
[11:14:47] <jdh> exc: The central committee on meetups in Germany has put you in charge of arranging said meetups.
[11:15:56] * jthornton seconds the nomination
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[11:16:50] * archivist_herron as a random voter abstains because he wants it in the UK
[11:18:17] <exc> well that
[11:18:25] <jthornton> wouldn't the UK have their own
[11:19:10] <archivist_herron> I did meet rob_h at oen of the model engineer shows but we should do something one day
[11:19:12] <exc> s what I thought ;-) If I can find some / someone interested finds me I will get something started
[11:19:42] <jthornton> exc, have you looked at the user map
[11:19:54] <exc> jthornton, nope, but I
[11:20:03] <exc> 'll do that now
[11:22:21] <exc> link? It is not easily found with the help of google ;-)
[11:22:26] <mhaberler> ssi: what is the semantics of 'somehwat conquered' ;-?
[11:22:52] <jthornton> it's on the main linuxcnc.org page but you have to register to see it
[11:23:17] <exc> ah I have to login
[11:23:37] <jthornton> aye
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[12:07:35] <exc> I will contact the guys within 50 km and we
[12:07:42] <exc> 'll take it from there
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[12:09:26] <archivist_herron> 50! why not 150km :)
[12:13:40] <exc> figure of speech ;-) I
[12:13:47] <exc> darned keyboard
[12:13:57] <exc> I'll do 200
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[12:19:51] <rob_h> should have the UK meet at my works could do with some works right now ;)
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[12:23:24] <Crashdemon> hey guys
[12:24:02] <Crashdemon> how can i use current lowering in linuxcnc?
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[12:25:59] <cpresser> Crashdemon: stepper? set it at the stepper-driver. its not a software issue
[12:26:48] <Crashdemon> isn't it possible to use the amp enable output?
[12:30:00] <cpresser> sure
[12:30:17] <cpresser> just configure a pin in HAL
[12:30:37] <cpresser> you can even write am comp which detects that there is no motion and sets that pin
[12:31:26] <archivist_herron> rob_h, on condition I get to play with the sliding head :)
[12:31:48] <cpresser> but most drives already do this automatically
[12:32:11] <archivist_herron> Crashdemon, are you sure you want to , losing steps can be the result
[12:32:48] <Crashdemon> actual the current lowering is always on, by default
[12:33:35] * cpresser did disable it
[12:33:45] <cpresser> i shut my machine down when i am not using it. simple as that :)
[12:34:56] <Crashdemon> ok this is also an option :-)
[12:35:17] <archivist_herron> keeps the house warm in winter
[12:35:47] <Crashdemon> but i will try it with hal, but im not experienced with it, it is very powerful
[12:35:59] <cpresser> i have cheaper ways of heating th shop :)
[12:37:58] <rob_h> archivist, thats a deal lol
[12:38:23] <rob_h> i guess ull sit down most of the day with the magazine barfeed now on it :)
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[12:56:01] <archivist_herron> rob_h, its running ok then ?
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[12:56:40] <rob_h> its not inplace as such yet gota have a move around, get the big crowbar out but iv had it on and moved it and had a play as one does
[12:57:03] <rob_h> barfeeds got deliverd few weeks back, picked up some 4m magazine servo barfeeds on the cheap
[12:57:31] <jthornton> tight fit I'd bet
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[12:57:46] <rob_h> also took guards off and gave it a dam good clean out and its getting a touch of pain
[12:57:47] <rob_h> t
[12:58:30] <rob_h> lol yea john but you only need a walk way between machines right? these factorys with huge ammounts of space between machines how wastefull is that ;)
[13:00:21] <jthornton> I have become very frugal with floor space
[13:00:54] <rob_h> besides if no machine sitting on the floor space u only got sweep it ;)
[13:01:02] <jthornton> yea
[13:01:40] <jthornton> if the machines are 1" off the floor you can't sweep or find all the parts that roll under them
[13:01:51] <rob_h> lol ye
[13:02:03] <rob_h> things u find when u move one quite funny
[13:02:31] <rob_h> like other day we had drag a hydrolic tank out one to fix a leak on the pump, and all the allenkeys and spanners we found at the back people had droped over the years
[13:02:51] <jthornton> I have the VMC crawling along at 100IPM rapids and can make a part or two before it trips
[13:03:11] <rob_h> o dear getting alot more worse
[13:03:15] <jthornton> oy
[13:03:34] <rob_h> encoders or tacho in them motors?
[13:03:42] <jthornton> seems to be, I just hope whatever is weak would just die
[13:03:47] <rob_h> ye
[13:03:48] <jthornton> tacho I think
[13:03:54] <jthornton> could be dirty?
[13:03:57] <rob_h> they AC
[13:04:10] <rob_h> maybe or something todo with feedback area
[13:04:16] <jthornton> the servos are DC
[13:04:23] <rob_h> cleaned the brush's
[13:04:34] <rob_h> give them a good dedust inside
[13:04:51] <rob_h> the ones on superslant for ever trying to clean carbon out off the coms
[13:04:53] <jthornton> the Z is the easy one to reach so I'll look at it after while
[13:05:10] <jthornton> brilliant idea mate
[13:05:44] <rob_h> fanuc ones tho are grate, just simens cant seem to make a good motor
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[13:07:14] <jthornton> I'm off to the shower to start my day, speak soon and good luck on the bar feeder
[13:07:23] <rob_h> k later
[13:07:32] <rob_h> im off to make more chips
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[13:22:32] <L84Supper> whats the consensus here on what <100W laser cutters to recommend for non-DIYers?
[13:23:28] <jdh> 100w yag or 100w co2
[13:23:40] <L84Supper> co2
[13:23:58] <jdh> not that I have an opinion on either, other than wanting one.
[13:24:32] <L84Supper> Jymmm has been pretty happy with his, but I forget the make and model
[13:24:48] <jdh> Jymm was happy about something? Are you sure?
[13:25:29] <L84Supper> well after 387 mods and the exhaust filter :)
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[13:27:45] <skunkworks> heh
[13:28:31] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/mzcyamb looks like a good deal
[13:29:12] <jdh> if it is fixable. 8x4 table!
[13:30:11] <L84Supper> it doesn't look like it spent any time under flood waters
[13:31:50] <L84Supper> easy enough conversion to EMC
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[13:39:01] <jdh> I was thinking about the $700 keling 40w myself
[13:39:38] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/mjlqwkk $2500 gets you something like this
[13:40:19] <cpresser> L84Supper: i got a machine similar to this one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Co2-Laser-BS-9060-Deluxe-80W-Arbeitsflache-900mm-X-600-mm-/121053757919?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item1c2f5dc1df
[13:40:38] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/laser-engraving/40w-co2-laser-machine-software-training
[13:45:46] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/111091396186
[13:48:44] <jdh> the price is in my range for the keling one. The 50w looks better but the price difference is huge
[13:51:40] <L84Supper> 50 US or Chinese watts? :)
[13:51:51] <JT-Shop> lol
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[14:20:59] <archivist_herron> US watts are smaller than imperial watts anyway :)
[14:21:13] <jdh> that's ok, US seconds are longer
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[14:29:56] <Thiel> hi all !!!
[14:30:30] <Thiel> question on the thcud component is the setp thcud.requested-vel 30 in mm/min or sec
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[14:30:40] <Thiel> mashine is in mm
[14:31:05] <Thiel> setp thcud.vel-tol 10 is this also in mm/min
[14:31:55] <cradek> the manpage says this connects to motion.current-vel, so you can be sure those are mm/sec
[14:32:17] <Thiel> ok
[14:32:18] <cradek> velocities and accelerations are /sec and /sec2 everywhere except in the gcode's F word
[14:32:45] <Thiel> the reaction is var to slow on 4000mm/min
[14:33:10] <Thiel> i run on 30mm/sec acording to you but it moves to slow up and down
[14:34:12] <Thiel> cradek: setp thcud.correction-vel 0.0001 why is this so low
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[14:34:39] <Thiel> is this maybe the actuall speed
[14:35:28] <cradek> sorry are you asking me why you set it to a low number? all I can do is read the documentation, I have no knowledge about your setup or how you got it set the way you do
[14:36:26] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/thc.9.html
[14:36:31] <Thiel> in all posts i find this low value so what is it for maybe i do try and error
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[14:37:11] <cradek> hm, in the manpage, that says units per period, which is a very strange unit
[14:37:34] <cradek> this may be weirder than I expect, sorry, I have never used it
[14:37:42] <cradek> hang around and maybe someone who knows more will help.
[14:38:32] <jdh> ~28 days for most women.
[14:38:35] <Thiel> ok
[14:38:41] <Thiel> Tom_itx: ? online
[14:39:03] <Thiel> tom you use the eagle plasma thc and your component thcud
[14:44:04] <Thiel> got it !!!!
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[14:48:43] <jdh> don't forget to leave the solution you found in the logs so others can see it when they search.
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[14:57:43] <L84Supper> @ 4:10 watch the effect of thermal expansion from a flashlight on a hollow beam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fke49j9AqFw
[14:58:16] <L84Supper> I guess I'll have to start micromachining in the dark from now on
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[15:53:15] <mrsun> ey! anyone alive? :)
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[15:54:03] <mrsun> got a jog wheel with quadrature .. is the A- B- outputs just the inverse of A+ and B+ ? do i need both to read it? :)
[15:59:04] <jthornton> to tell which direction you are going yes you need both
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[16:04:16] <mrsun> both A and B but both the non inverted and the inverted also ?
[16:04:22] <mrsun> so all A+ A- B+ B- ?
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[16:11:28] <jthornton> aye you need all for to know direction
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[16:21:07] <jdh> you do?
[16:21:16] <Tom_itx> no, you can use either pair or both
[16:21:30] <Tom_itx> if you have differential input you can use both
[16:21:37] <Tom_itx> i have differential input and used one pair
[16:21:49] <jdh> and a bias voltage?
[16:21:53] <Tom_itx> ja
[16:22:44] <Tom_itx> the direction is derived from the fact they are 90 deg out of phase
[16:23:26] <Tom_itx> if you need more direction, get a GPS
[16:24:35] <jdh> or ask us, we'll tell you where to go.
[16:30:09] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:34:08] <Tom_itx> mrsun, yes they are the inverse
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[16:50:37] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:02:09] <tjb1> IchGuckLive: hello
[17:02:39] <IchGuckLive> hi
[17:05:07] <Jymmm> L84Supper jdh I have a 30W CO2... ULS M-300, It's self-contained and acts just like a printer.
[17:05:11] <tjb1> Did you need something yesterday?
[17:07:35] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: no i only wanted to know on what vel-tol you are as the cheep plasma thc went off some times at hard corners
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[17:08:06] <tjb1> I haven't used mine much but on small intricate parts it was diving so I turned it off for the time being
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[17:10:37] <IchGuckLive> the master chief today testet parts that hat height differences at12mm on 100mm length
[17:11:07] <IchGuckLive> and the numbers of delay hysteresis and vel where bad to work out
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[17:16:19] <tjtr33> gene78, could you paste an example svg to imagebin.org ? i'll try pdfposter on it.
[17:19:45] <jdh> Jymmm: got pics of any cut objects or engravings? Is that real 30w vs. chinese 40w?
[17:20:51] <IchGuckLive> will the laser getting cheeper
[17:21:11] <IchGuckLive> i woudt like to have one for cutting 3mm metall sheets
[17:22:01] <Jymmm> jdh: Real 30W, I had ULS send me out a laser power meter to measure the output.
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[17:22:47] <Jymmm> An illuminary I designed and created out of wood veneer and paper
http://i51.tinypic.com/2rqzvw0.jpg
[17:22:54] <Jymmm> My "Teddy Bear" I laser engraved on 12" black granite tile from a photograph...
http://i54.tinypic.com/k2mo7n.jpg
[17:23:01] <Jymmm> Laser engraved glass stones -
http://i54.tinypic.com/fyl3c0.jpg
[17:23:25] <Jymmm> Laser engraved clear acrylic edge lit night light
http://i51.tinypic.com/2jttp2.jpg
[17:24:13] <IchGuckLive> Jymmm: the bear is this one pass only
[17:24:33] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: Yes.
[17:25:13] <Jymmm> IchGuckLive: Well, what do you mean one-pass, Like not having to go over the same path twice?
[17:25:25] <Jymmm> if so, then yes.
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[17:25:45] <jdh> did you cut the acrylic edge lit thingie also?
[17:25:53] <Jymmm> yes
[17:26:15] <jdh> how long to cut an inch?
[17:26:29] <Jymmm> It'll vary
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[17:26:46] <Jymmm> Could I use more power, sure.
[17:26:52] <jdh> 2 seconds? 2 minutes? 2 hours?
[17:27:04] <Jymmm> jdh: It'll vary
[17:27:42] <Jymmm> It can every change day by day due to temp, humidity, etc
[17:28:12] <IchGuckLive> humidity on my laserprojektor a big factor
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[17:29:27] <jdh> I asked the keling guy about speeds 3 or 4 times, never got an answer from him either
[17:29:53] <jdh> nor would he say how thick it would cut, etc. even with specific material types.
[17:30:03] <Jymmm> jdh: It's not an absolute like it may be with tooling
[17:30:31] <jdh> I understand that, but seconds/minutes/hours should be available, or at least a range
[17:30:59] <jdh> 1" x 1" square outline in clear 1/8" plexiglass
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[17:32:30] <Jymmm> jdh: You keep thinking like a mill/lathe, it's light
[17:32:53] <Jymmm> It's not fast due to being 30W if that's what you're asking.
[17:33:10] <jdh> but is not fast 5 minutes or 5 hours
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[17:33:51] <Jymmm> could be a lil of each
[17:34:10] <Jymmm> jdh: you keep asking for an absolute, there is none.
[17:34:37] <jdh> I was asking for a range. I included a factor of 60x for imprecision
[17:35:01] <Jymmm> If it was a 250W laser, might be a different factor.
[17:35:18] <jdh> sure, but I was askign about a 30w laser
[17:35:22] <Jymmm> And I keep telling oyu, but you dont want to accept the answer,
[17:35:54] <jdh> so, when you cut somethign, you don't know if it will take an hour or a day?
[17:36:03] <Jymmm> correct
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[17:46:45] <Jymmm> jdh: You're looking at it like milling aluminum. But al doens't absorb moisture or thermally expand/contract like plastics do. Can a chainsaw cut al fast, sure but your not going to have a nice edge. Sometimes that's the case here. To say "will it cut in x time" is not an absolute. you could cut fast and have a shitty edge, you could have the vaporized material redeposit itself on to the workpiece, it can smoke and leave soot at the molten
[17:46:45] <Jymmm> edge, it can deform, it can craze, etc. There are multiple factors to acount for.
[17:48:15] <jdh> so for cutting acrylic, do you do multiple passes? or does it know when it is cut through?
[17:50:09] <Jymmm> It doesn't know anything, it's all by feel. I've had 1/4" on one pass some days, and 1/8" in multiple passes. I know what you are asking for, and there is no absolute answer. Keep asking the say question (even if rephrased) is not going to change the answer.
[17:53:45] <Jymmm> If you have a higher wattage 100W+ laser, then those misc factors become less of a factor. I now one that had to jump up to 250W for engraving wood to overcome the the pitch (sap) variations.
[17:53:58] <Jymmm> s/now/know/
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[17:56:49] <Jymmm> jdh: Now, the flip side to the coin is you can do some very interesting things with this lil quirks too
[17:57:45] <cpresser> jdh: with my 80W-China-Laser i cut 1/4" acrylic with 10mm/sec at 70% power
[17:57:56] <Jymmm> jdh: I can "bleach" out just the color pigments in fabric to engrave designs/logos into jeans without damaging the fabric.
[17:58:09] <Jymmm> jdh: there ya go cpresser has an answer for ya
[17:58:49] <cpresser> however, i do also change settings depending on the job :)
[17:59:00] <Jymmm> lol
[18:00:01] <cpresser> 12mm Acrylic is also possible. 2mm/sec at 90% power. but that looks ugly :/
[18:00:32] * cpresser has a cheat-cheat for different materials. i found all those values by trial and error. they are not absolute!
[18:00:38] <Jymmm> cpresser: at what DPI?
[18:01:06] <cpresser> Jymmm: cant tell. cheap chinese control. i cant change the pulse-ratio
[18:01:13] <Jymmm> cpresser: ah
[18:01:32] <cpresser> i might do a retrofit. i need to look into hal-streamer
[18:02:00] <Jymmm> cpresser: Hey, when you cut a disc, do you find the start/end point to have a dimple?
[18:02:07] <cpresser> yes, i do
[18:02:23] <cpresser> thats why i do a lead-in and lead-out in the CAD
[18:02:34] <Jymmm> cpresser: Yeah, even the monster hitachi industrial ones do that too.
[18:02:35] <cpresser> but that doesnt solve it 100%
[18:03:22] <cpresser> i am not sure how you can avoid these artifacts
[18:03:51] <cpresser> usually i just change the geometry and have the start/end point at a place where it doesnt matter that much :)
[18:03:58] <Jymmm> cpresser: Have the post-processor convert circles from 'O' into 'C'
[18:04:13] <Jymmm> like a 99.999% circle.
[18:04:35] <Jymmm> cpresser: But such a pita
[18:04:59] <Jymmm> cpresser: Same here
[18:05:03] <cpresser> yep, its a lot of work. but most times i cut squares :)
[18:05:27] <jdh> I get a dimple with endmills
[18:05:30] <cpresser> so its not a big problem for everyday work :)
[18:05:53] <Jymmm> yeah, and most dont notice it anway
[18:05:56] <Jymmm> anyway
[18:06:24] <jdh> 80w is pricey, chinese 40w is relatively cheap. I just wanted a general idea about what it could do.
[18:06:44] <Jymmm> jdh: what do you want it to do?
[18:06:51] <cpresser> depending on the job i also grind the dimples away with a disc-sander
[18:07:04] <Jymmm> cpresser: Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[18:07:14] <jdh> cut 3mm acrylic at the moment.
[18:07:36] <Jymmm> jdh: one? 20? 200? daily? quarterly?
[18:07:45] <jdh> yeah
[18:07:49] <jdh> it's not absolute
[18:08:20] <cpresser> for 3mm you are okay with 40W. but 6mm will be a pita.
[18:08:35] <cpresser> same for 10mm wood/mdf. you can cut it, but not in a nice single pass
[18:09:33] <jdh> I have no immediate needs. Just need a tiny bit of justification for purchasing
[18:10:12] <cpresser> for comparison: this one took 10minutes on my machine:
http://imagebin.org/260592
[18:10:25] <cpresser> its 8x10" (200x250mm) 6mm Acrylic
[18:11:02] <jdh> for the cut also, or just the engrave?
[18:11:25] <cpresser> total.
[18:11:38] <cpresser> the cut takes ~2min, the engraving 8min
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[18:20:08] <jdh> 40w $700, 80w: $6,000
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[20:43:51] <Crashdemon> what causes "joint 2 on limit switch error" error messages?
[20:44:17] <cradek> the joint 2 limit switch signal being true
[20:44:46] <cradek> according to fallible memory, those are something like axis.2.positive-limit-switch or axis.2.negative-limit-switch
[20:48:44] <Crashdemon> yes this error ocours when i'm trying to reference
[20:49:18] <Crashdemon> on z-axis
[20:49:22] <cradek> are you trying to home to a limit switch?
[20:50:14] <Crashdemon> maybe, i've configured it as ref. z + both switches
[20:50:42] <cradek> pastebin your ini and hal files?
[20:50:49] <Crashdemon> sounds wrong?
[20:50:55] <Crashdemon> jop
[20:53:56] <Crashdemon> hal:
http://pastebin.com/wbkAejhE
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[20:54:31] <Crashdemon> ini:
http://pastebin.com/xGnM4L5k
[20:54:44] <cradek> ok you have pin 13 hooked to all of Z home, pos limit and neg limit
[20:54:57] <Crashdemon> yes
[20:55:24] <cradek> in AXIS_2 you have HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS so you should not be getting this error when homing Z. Are you sure you get it when homing Z?
[20:55:25] <Crashdemon> my z-axis also driving into the wrong direction
[20:55:39] <cradek> you can fix that by negating [AXIS_2]SCALE
[20:55:46] <Crashdemon> ok
[20:56:15] <Crashdemon> yes i'm pretty sure this error ocours when ref. z-axis
[20:56:43] <cradek> it's surprising that pins 11 and 12 need inversion and 13 does not. are you sure they are right?
[20:57:54] <cradek> maybe you should watch the both-home-z signal with halmeter and make sure it is TRUE when you are activating the switch and FALSE otherwise
[20:58:23] <Crashdemon> ok i will give it a try
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[21:02:58] <Crashdemon> ok, now pin 11 and 12 need no inversion
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[21:03:54] <Crashdemon> is it not possible to change scale in stepconf?
[21:04:35] <Crashdemon> the erros stays the same
[21:04:40] <andypugh> Yes, but Stepconf obfuscates it behind pullley tooth numbers and microstepping values in an attempt to be helpful
[21:05:37] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:06:53] <Crashdemon> very confusing error, i have no clue what causes this
[21:07:51] <Crashdemon> maybe i should configure z-axis with ref. switches only
[21:08:30] <andypugh> Which LinuxCNC version? (cradek, dind't we have a bug recently where it lied abut which axis was the problem?)
[21:08:42] <jdh> I have Z home up top
[21:09:05] <jdh> maybe Z+ limit also, lower z limit seemed impossible to do well
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[21:10:29] <andypugh> Typically Z home/limit is one switch at the top of travel (Z = 0) and the bottom limit is at Z=minus_some_number. And you set the axis maxlimit as zero and minlinit as minus_the_same_number.
[21:10:34] <Crashdemon> actual version of linuxcnc
[21:11:15] <Crashdemon> ok i will fix that
[21:12:38] <andypugh> I think that the bug I am thinking of was unrelated:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commit;h=33d4483ccf856fea23726c3bcdf1ab7c19b855dd
[21:12:47] <andypugh> That was a jogging thing.
[21:14:36] <Crashdemon> isn't possible to debug what this error message causes?
[21:16:48] <andypugh> "joint 2 on limit switch error" means that whatever is connected to axis.2.(pos/neg)-limit-switch-in was true when LinuxCNC last looked. It is quite possibly electrical noice.
[21:16:51] <andypugh> (noise)
[21:18:15] <Crashdemon> pin bouncing could be a possible error?
[21:18:50] <andypugh> it is one possibility.
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[21:21:18] <Meduza> Anyone tried to use Intel D2550-based motherboards for LinuxCNC?
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[21:23:52] <Crashdemon> i solved the problem by disabling limit switches on z-axis in stepconf
[21:24:10] <Crashdemon> now all went well
[21:24:19] <Crashdemon> thanks guys
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[21:26:52] <andypugh> Yes, but....
[21:27:42] <andypugh> That is a "solution" rather like avoiding toothache by shooting yourself in the head.
[21:30:28] <Crashdemon> yes i know, but it works
[21:30:49] <Crashdemon> a fast workaround
[21:36:05] <andypugh> There is a software debounce in HAL, you can set the limit only when the input has held the same value for N cycles of the servo or bas threads.
[21:36:46] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/debounce.9.html
[21:37:04] <andypugh> not the clearest of docs
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[21:42:41] <Crashdemon> ok
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[21:55:24] <abetusk_w> is there any hope of engraving marble on this type of machine:
http://zentoolworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=74 ?
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[21:57:31] <Meduza> Is there any known problems with using this motherboard (based on Intel D2550):
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/AD2550B-ITX/ with LinuxCNC?
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[22:06:03] <andypugh> abetusk_w: Perhaps very slowly. It is a plastic frame and slow motors. We may be getting close to the bird sharpening beak and wearing away a mountain timescale.
[22:06:34] <andypugh> Sorry, not "slow motors" I meant "small motors"
[22:07:29] <abetusk_w> hmm, yeah. Guess I'll just have to try it out
[22:07:32] <abetusk_w> I'm not too hopeful
[22:08:43] <andypugh> Meduza: I don't think anyone here has an exhaustive knowledge of all motherboards.
[22:09:09] <andypugh> Meduza: It is likely to matter a lot less in the near future.
[22:09:33] <Meduza> Nah, i'll dont think so either, it was really more if there is any known problem with the D25xx family of processors :)
[22:09:43] <Meduza> andypugh: OK, what is about to change?
[22:10:35] <andypugh> shifting to support of Xenomai and RT_PREEMPT. LinuxCNC may soon be just another package on stock kernels.
[22:11:47] <PCW> There are video driver problems with Linux and Cedar trail Atoms (25002550,2600,2700 2800 etc) so you are limited to framebuffer support
[22:12:29] <Meduza> Is that a big problem in reality (or can you live with it)?
[22:13:52] <PCW> ask andy, he has a Cedar trail MB I think
[22:13:57] <andypugh> I am living with it on a D2800.
[22:14:15] <Meduza> andypugh: intresting, do you know anywhere i can read more on the upcomping changes? (Honestly i have not updated my last cnc computer since 2007, and that is a now 13 year old laptop)
[22:14:44] <andypugh> But it almost never connects to a monitor. It is on the bookshelf behinf the TV as a development platform.
[22:15:04] <Meduza> I'll think i propably can live with it, as i said my current CNC computer is a 700Mhz P3 laptop with 256Mb RAM...
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[22:16:47] <Meduza> Or is there any other chipset that exists on Mini-ITX boards more recent than 2008 that is well supported?
[22:16:48] <andypugh> Meduza:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/9522
[22:17:13] <Meduza> thanks andypugh!
[22:17:54] <Meduza> I have built a computer with Intel D525MW for a friend wich worked great, but i'll have a hard time finding a that old motherboard to buy new...?
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[22:18:20] <Tom_itx> it was a good one
[22:22:16] <Meduza> yeah, i'll know that was my conclusion at the time, but know it is a few years old and hard to find, and where they have it it is almost double the price it was before..
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[22:24:22] <Meduza> I have actually only found one place selling it, and they want 110€ + shipping...
[22:24:36] <Meduza> and does not even tell if they have it in stock
[22:24:57] <andypugh> PCW what is that one you have good results with?
[22:30:23] <PCW> I hate to say since I recommended the ASUS E45M1 as a fast low latency MB (works for me) but others have had troubles with it
[22:30:57] <andypugh> Ah.
[22:30:59] <PCW> a little gun-shy about recomendations
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[22:33:37] <PCW> When the Xenomai thing is ironed out there will be many more modern MB choices
[22:35:07] <PCW> the GIGABYTE GA-E350N has been recommend but apparently has trouble with modern screen sizes and Ubunto10.4
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[22:37:52] <Meduza> Well right now i only need 1024*768 as i got a really nice industrial monitor that will fit my mill really nice
[22:38:25] <Meduza> I am reading the threads about xenomai and the other changes, and it looks really promising!
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