#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-05-27

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[01:25:16] <RyanS> What's the point of three turrets on a turning centre? Is it simply for faster production?
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[01:26:28] <toastydeath> faster production, and you can often cut harder with two turrets
[01:26:37] <toastydeath> third turret is either for boring or 2nd chuck work
[01:26:54] <andypugh> Probably. Or maybe to make it easier to get long tools out of the way. Or possibly to perform operations on the other spindle simulaneously.
[01:28:20] <RyanS> I think the other thing that I have seen is pinch milling thin parts I guess you would need 2
[01:28:55] <toastydeath> pinch turning works just as well
[01:29:30] <toastydeath> consider that a swiss screw machine has what... seven or eight tool slides that all work simultaneously?
[01:30:31] <RyanS> But if it only the has one spindle?
[01:30:54] <toastydeath> yep
[01:31:41] <RyanS> Swiss machines confuse me I think because they are so fast it's difficult to see what's going on
[01:32:31] <toastydeath> the chuck is also hidden
[01:33:01] <RyanS> yeah
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[01:34:50] <RyanS> Is it impossible for a fixed head turning centre to achieve the same level of precision as swiss.. Or its more about the speed
[01:35:26] <toastydeath> considering the most accurate turning machines in the world are not swiss machines, i'd say "yes"
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[01:35:50] <toastydeath> it is difficult to beat a swiss screw machine (cnc or cam driven) for accuracy AND speed
[01:36:07] <RyanS> ah ah
[01:36:32] <toastydeath> the cam driven machines are a good margin faster
[01:36:46] <toastydeath> but cannot handle the same range of work, and are a little less accurate than their cnc counterparts
[01:37:02] <velcrow> I am making my own CNC mill, but am not sure what to use as the cutting tool/spindle. I was thinking of using my Dremel, but am not sure if that's good. Any suggestions? I want to mill PCBs, <6mm MDF/plywood/acrylic (is this possible?). Thanks.
[01:38:45] <RyanS> cam systems are Windows-based? What happens if the computer crashes halfway through machining
[01:39:27] <toastydeath> no, cam, as in camshaft
[01:39:58] <toastydeath> non-cnc screw machines are driven by a set of cams
[01:43:01] <RyanS> ah....nevertheless computer-aided machining..... solidcam is a well-known one. If it crashes as much as solidworks
[01:43:15] <Tom_itx> ie brown & sharp, davenport, new brittan
[01:44:48] <RyanS> I just find it strange you have a a few million dollars worth of machinery being run by a desktop computer
[01:45:16] <toastydeath> ?
[01:45:43] <toastydeath> DNC machining is pretty uncommon nowdays
[01:46:08] <toastydeath> the machines are networked and can pull/push nc files across the network, but actual drip feeding machines is rare
[01:46:18] <toastydeath> (for exactly the reason you're pointing out)
[01:46:20] <RyanS> DNC?
[01:46:27] <toastydeath> direct numeric control
[01:46:35] <toastydeath> or is it distributed
[01:46:37] <toastydeath> i forget
[01:47:08] <toastydeath> you throw the machine into DNC mode, and hit start, and it sits there and waits for commands to come in over ethernet or rs232
[01:47:33] <RyanS> "Each SolidCAM post-processor is customized to the machinist's individual needs and generates ready-to-run CNC-programs" ?
[01:47:39] <toastydeath> was used back in the day of tape storage for long ass programs
[01:47:59] <toastydeath> that's just CAM; it's a finished program
[01:48:16] <toastydeath> you take the gcode the postprocessor spits out, send it to the machine, and the machine runs it locally
[01:49:05] <Tom_itx> yeah most machines probably have alot more memory now
[01:49:24] <Tom_itx> we had one we had to DNC all the time
[01:49:26] <RyanS> ah so you never have a machine that is simply like a dumb terminal
[01:49:36] <toastydeath> the only place i've ever heard of DNC being used is OLD school 5 axis machines in the early days of aerospace machining
[01:49:43] <toastydeath> like, 60's and 70's
[01:49:44] <andypugh> velcrow: The Bosch Colt router is popular
[01:49:53] <toastydeath> RyanS, yeah, exactly
[01:50:03] <toastydeath> they can theoretically be used that way, but they aren't
[01:50:17] <velcrow> andypugh, Thanks, looking into it.
[01:50:48] <velcrow> andypugh, A specific model?
[01:50:59] <pcw_home> A dremel is entirely too wobbly for (fine) PCB routing
[01:51:56] <RyanS> hmm I wonder what sort of CPU in the machines controller probably RISC and not all that high clock speed?
[01:52:44] <toastydeath> my understanding is that most industrial controls use several processors at a low clock speed, yeah
[01:53:07] <andypugh> velcrow: Have you seen this sort of thing on eBay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5KW-WATER-COOLE-MILLING-AND-GRINDING-SPINDLE-MOTOR-WITH-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-b2-/170745848157?
[01:53:46] <velcrow> andypugh, Not on ebay, but I have seen it elsewhere during my research. Why?
[01:53:49] <eric_unterhausen> the Haas at work uses the biggest circuit board I have ever seen
[01:53:59] <eric_unterhausen> even in old-school electronics
[01:54:25] <andypugh> Well, they are actually designed for the job (then built down to a price, which may undermine things a little)
[01:55:12] <andypugh> I am sure we can find you spindle motors up to any budget you care to name.
[01:55:55] <velcrow> andypugh, A little out of my price range though? Are there cheaper solutions? I'd go up to about $100. I can make the entire machine except for the spindle mechanism stuff because I have no experience with milling.
[01:55:57] <eric_unterhausen> wish I could figure out how to run the Moore tool spindles I have
[01:56:15] <toastydeath> eric_unterhausen, you mean you have jig grinder spindles?
[01:56:35] <eric_unterhausen> don't think so, they are small, router sized
[01:56:45] <toastydeath> bout 6" long?
[01:56:50] <toastydeath> rectangular base?
[01:56:50] <eric_unterhausen> yeah
[01:57:00] <toastydeath> what rpm
[01:57:04] <toastydeath> 40k, 60k, 120k?
[01:57:07] <eric_unterhausen> 40k, 60k,
[01:57:11] <andypugh> There are people making spindles from brushless RC motors.
[01:57:22] <toastydeath> lol those are worth several thousand dollars if they're in good condition
[01:57:31] <toastydeath> they are not router spindles, they're ultraprecision grinding spindles
[01:57:32] <velcrow> i use bl motors for my rc hobby :)
[01:57:35] <velcrow> same ones?
[01:57:39] <andypugh> Yes.
[01:57:49] <velcrow> And they'd work for my purposes?
[01:57:49] <eric_unterhausen> toastydeath, aware of that
[01:57:59] <toastydeath> ah, sorry
[01:58:07] <eric_unterhausen> but I'm not sure what to feed them
[01:58:32] <eric_unterhausen> have the drive
[01:58:49] <toastydeath> i wish i didn't throw away all my business cards, I had a guy from moore nanotech who could get all the manuals for those machines
[01:58:53] <RyanS> What machines are typically used in aerospace (or any requiring ultra-precision), just high-end models of the major brands? Or are we talking about some exotic machines from a manufacturer most have never heard of
[01:59:22] <toastydeath> RyanS, the former
[01:59:32] <toastydeath> aerospace isn't ultraprecision, they're just precision
[01:59:36] <andypugh> velcrow: You take a brushless motor, one of these collets: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C16-ER16A-150L-Straight-Collet-Milling-Chuck-Holder-for-ER16-Collet-/290913553085 and some bearings. Make a housing (which needs a lathe, you are wasting components unless you get the housing right) and then either drive with a coupling or a belt drive.
[02:00:10] <toastydeath> Kitamura, DSG, Mori Seiki, Ikeagi, Okuma
[02:00:21] <toastydeath> and more i can't remember now, but all fairly expensive
[02:00:24] <velcrow> andypugh, Thanks, that helps a lot.
[02:00:44] <eric_unterhausen> moore nanotech and some other related company are ultra-precision
[02:00:55] <andypugh> There is somebody making them semi-commercially, but I can't find him.
[02:00:58] <pcw_home> Sodick makes some tiny ones
[02:01:22] <pcw_home> all linear
[02:01:24] <andypugh> toastydeath: Which DSG?
[02:01:33] <toastydeath> dean, smith, and grace
[02:01:35] <RyanS> What's the Swiss brand, starts with a k..
[02:01:54] <toastydeath> either way a lot of companies make "aerospace" quality machines now
[02:02:30] <toastydeath> because hitting .0001" tolerances anywhere in a machine's envelope isn't as hard as it used to be
[02:03:06] <toastydeath> provided you're willing to pay the cost of doing that, that is
[02:03:46] <andypugh> toastydeath: I think you might have meant DMG? Though DSG made this lovely thing: http://www.pdbengineering.com/pdf/Travelling%20gantry%20machine%20feature.pdf
[02:04:26] <toastydeath> I thought DSG was bought by somebody and was still an active division, but DMG is obviously super-high quality
[02:04:42] <toastydeath> much like Leblonde was bought, though their quality went to shit and are virtually unknown now
[02:05:08] <RyanS> Kern..
[02:05:23] <andypugh> DSG are stilll the place to go for _really_ good lathes. http://www.deansmithandgrace.co.uk
[02:05:23] <RyanS> Odd looking machines
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[02:07:03] <toastydeath> damn that's a big goddamn gantry mill
[02:07:54] <toastydeath> i was wondering if it was worth waiting for the load time
[02:07:59] <toastydeath> but the answer is yes
[02:08:59] <RyanS> nanotech.. looks exotic
[02:09:30] <toastydeath> ?
[02:09:51] <toastydeath> the diamond turning machine company?
[02:10:15] <RyanS> yeh you mentioned that b4
[02:10:33] <toastydeath> oh, moore nanotech
[02:10:52] <toastydeath> they're two different companies
[02:11:15] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAvfrrlMZg4&list=UUvR6oZZrgw7dz50ANYv2gQA&index=26
[02:11:16] <Tecan> (vAvfrrlMZg4) "Diamond Turning Copper Sample with Measurements.wmv" by "mdrlpsu" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:30
[02:12:22] <andypugh> toastydeath: What I like about that gantry is that it is conceptually identical to a DIY CNC gantry, even in the construction and bolt-on linear slides. But it is a lot bigger.
[02:12:32] <toastydeath> i used to work for a company that made air bearings and one of our major products were linear stages for diamond turning machines
[02:13:03] <eric_unterhausen> air bearing linear stages?
[02:13:11] <eric_unterhausen> which company?
[02:13:20] <RyanS> Ive seen that video very impressive
[02:13:21] <toastydeath> new way air bearings
[02:13:31] <eric_unterhausen> how was Drew to work for?
[02:13:43] <toastydeath> he was an interesting guy
[02:14:21] <eric_unterhausen> he's making some interesting shaped air bearings
[02:14:23] <toastydeath> didn't work directly under him except for a handful of times
[02:14:32] <RyanS> How about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epjtsPc58Gc
[02:15:27] <toastydeath> RyanS, that's actually engraving microscopic patterns on the drum, not just a regular diffraction grating
[02:15:28] <eric_unterhausen> they have some company that uses theirs to make reflective material
[02:15:45] <eric_unterhausen> takes more than a shift to do a part
[02:16:06] <toastydeath> and if you jump or drop something, it ruins the part
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[02:16:20] <eric_unterhausen> probably
[02:16:30] <toastydeath> nice big white line shows up
[02:16:34] <RyanS> Looks like a granite bed
[02:16:46] <eric_unterhausen> fancy concrete
[02:16:47] <toastydeath> at least it's easy for inspection to catch
[02:16:59] <andypugh> I find myself wanting to make a lathe, with an air-bearing, direct drive spindle, and a granite bed.
[02:17:34] <eric_unterhausen> andypugh, and do what with it?
[02:17:59] <andypugh> Oh, nothing. I am only interested in makine machines, not using them :-)
[02:18:42] <RyanS> It wouldnt be too hard to pour a granite bed level.... no maybe those machines use actual machineed rock
[02:18:57] <eric_unterhausen> easy to get ruined spindles on ebay :)
[02:18:58] <andypugh> I expect to die with the capability to machine absolutely anything, but having never actuallt done so.
[02:19:48] <toastydeath> you can get pretty good results with an air bearing spindle and not a whole lot of knowledge
[02:20:13] <andypugh> Indeed, they aren't actually complicated.
[02:20:36] <andypugh> I use to work for a company that used air bearings partly because they were easy.
[02:20:52] <eric_unterhausen> depends on the precision you need
[02:21:29] <toastydeath> naturally, but for a homebuilt machine a homebuilt air bearing is going to be more accurate than most commercial bearings of any type that is in the price range
[02:22:09] <eric_unterhausen> I have a private vid that has been watched 17 times
[02:22:16] <andypugh> I designed this (well, the high-speed parts, the base machine was a standard frame). http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/dage/products/bondtesters/Pages/4000HSHighSpeedBondtester.aspx
[02:22:23] <toastydeath> we got away with stuuuupid laziness on experimental projects for things that went into cmms and interferometers
[02:23:02] <eric_unterhausen> I was working with a cmm, surprised how crappy it is
[02:23:12] <eric_unterhausen> they move approximately where you tell them to go
[02:23:19] <toastydeath> "CLOSE ENOUGH"
[02:23:46] <andypugh> They achieve very good accuracy without actually using expensive components. The air-bearing lets you land on the substrate of a chip, back off three microns, then push through a track and measure the force.
[02:23:51] <eric_unterhausen> I did this to work with cmm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azv9_aDfg_E&list=UUvR6oZZrgw7dz50ANYv2gQA
[02:23:52] <Tecan> (azv9_aDfg_E) "Cylindricity Spindle TEST.mp4" by "mdrlpsu" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:16
[02:24:27] <toastydeath> was that using the moore method
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[02:24:42] <eric_unterhausen> what moore method?
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[02:25:21] <toastydeath> measure deviation for 360 degrees, rotate test artifact 180, measure again, the differential error is the error in the spindle
[02:25:21] <RyanS> Do people use epoxy granite for diy because it doesn't require foundry stuff? Most commercial machines are cast-iron
[02:25:53] <andypugh> RyanS: Basically, yes. Though some manufacturers apparently fill cast iron framws with it too.
[02:25:56] <toastydeath> moore came up with it in the 70s as the first direct measurement of spindle error
[02:26:06] <eric_unterhausen> toastydeath, no
[02:26:09] <toastydeath> without relying on an artifact's accuracy
[02:26:12] <andypugh> However, my lathe idea was to use a granite kitchen worktop :-)
[02:26:15] <eric_unterhausen> we have better methods anyway
[02:26:31] <toastydeath> yeah, that's why i was curious to see only one probe
[02:26:42] <toastydeath> i haven't seen a one probe spindle test in a long long time
[02:26:51] <eric_unterhausen> we do single probe multiprobe :)
[02:26:55] <RyanS> What about a cheap surface plate?
[02:27:14] <toastydeath> how does that work?
[02:27:24] <eric_unterhausen> put the bearing on a rotary table
[02:27:39] <eric_unterhausen> saves you 20k in cap probes
[02:27:50] <toastydeath> ah, so you're indexing it by 120 every time?
[02:27:57] <eric_unterhausen> no, magic angles
[02:28:00] <eric_unterhausen> 120 doesn't work
[02:28:35] <eric_unterhausen> angles are published, just magic
[02:28:38] <toastydeath> hahaha
[02:29:04] <toastydeath> i believe it
[02:29:17] <toastydeath> this conversation is making me sad i got out of ultraprecision
[02:29:31] <eric_unterhausen> it's a very small world
[02:29:47] <toastydeath> hindsight i should have stuck with drew
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[02:30:04] <eric_unterhausen> drew really seems like he could have a bright future
[02:30:16] <toastydeath> the manufacturing team and the r&d team were not best friends, and the mfg side basically told me "pick us or him"
[02:30:29] <toastydeath> since i was trying to become a machinist at the time, i picked them
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[02:30:59] <Tom_itx> heh
[02:31:05] <toastydeath> looking back, that was a stupid thing to do
[02:31:47] <Tom_itx> too bad we weren't born with hind sight
[02:32:03] <Tom_itx> i'm sure we'd all change a few things
[02:32:04] <toastydeath> it ended any chances I had of going out to the precision machining conferences
[02:32:14] <toastydeath> only got to go to one
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[02:34:24] <toastydeath> maybe after i get my math degree i'll send my resume around
[02:35:30] <andypugh> I did a project on machining 100um dia glass cylinders to 3um thick. :-)
[02:35:43] <toastydeath> hahahah
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[02:35:48] <toastydeath> how did that work out
[02:35:55] <toastydeath> i wouldn't want to be the one to have to handle those
[02:36:15] <eric_unterhausen> no
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[02:36:58] <andypugh> Pretty easy with the right machine: http://www.gatan.com/pdf/addl_pdf/Dimple%20Grinder.pdf
[02:39:31] <toastydeath> haha
[02:39:53] <andypugh> Looks like the paper isn't available without subscription: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00275452
[02:40:58] <andypugh> I got quite good at engraving the specimen number in the wall-thickness of sections of 3mm brass tube.
[02:41:00] <toastydeath> my school is pretty crappy but we have a lot of subscriptions
[02:41:03] <toastydeath> i may have access
[02:41:29] <toastydeath> from all the money they get from like, dance students, they spend it on physics and engineering journals
[02:41:34] <toastydeath> ...there's no engineering department
[02:42:21] <andypugh> You can't dance without physics, but you can do physics without dancing :-)
[02:42:54] <toastydeath> there's like ten people in the physics dept
[02:43:24] <andypugh> <digression> It is possible to plug an Rpi into a Beaglebone. I wonder if that is useful in any way?
[02:45:58] <pcw_home> With Ethernet or serial of course, probably SPI as well whether its a useful or not I dont know
[02:46:14] <pcw_home> useful combination
[02:47:01] <andypugh> I was mainly meaning that the Beagle has a female header, and the RPi a male one ;-)
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[02:48:59] <Willburrrr2003> hello, i hope everyone is doing well
[02:50:11] <Willburrrr2003> i finally upgraded from emc 2.4.6 to linuxcnc 2.5.0 today
[02:51:00] <pcw_home> as long as it does not cause a I/O-->GND or I/O -->PWR short there are probably many possible connections
[02:51:23] <Willburrrr2003> i was able to get my config files edited for the linuxcnc changes. i had to comment out my ngcgui in my ini file, as it keeps crashing my linux cnc
[02:52:39] <pcw_home> crashing is such a harsh word perhaps program control anomaly?
[02:52:49] <Willburrrr2003> does anyone know if there was any changes in the way linuxcnc sets up and calls ngcgui vs emc?
[02:53:11] <Willburrrr2003> ok, i can go with that
[02:53:45] <andypugh> Typically it isn't a "crash", it is a controlled exit with an error report.
[02:54:14] <andypugh> ie, the software finds something it isn't happy with, and gives up.
[02:54:29] <Willburrrr2003> it closes linuxcnc as soon as it opens, and if i comment out all the tab setup lines it doesnt close linuxcnc as soon as it loads up
[02:54:48] <andypugh> Now, the code I write, that can crash. In fact I crashed an 8i20 so badly it had to go back to Mesa.
[02:54:51] <Willburrrr2003> yes andy it does spit out an error report
[02:56:27] <andypugh> So, what is the error report?
[02:57:45] <Willburrrr2003> let me fire up the computer and i will tell you what it says
[02:58:10] <tjtr33> the blue leds on the bbb are blinding, really long term persistance of vision.
[02:58:13] <tjtr33> but pretty cool it just shows up on desktop and has its own web page
[02:58:37] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, they are lowering the led leves
[02:58:40] <eric_unterhausen> levels
[02:59:16] <andypugh> It was rather annoying blinking there next to me.
[02:59:27] <eric_unterhausen> too much
[02:59:49] <eric_unterhausen> I'm going to put mine in a case and hope not too much light gets out
[02:59:55] <tjtr33> type left handed, right cupped over annoying leds :|
[03:00:28] <tjtr33> wheres that cardboard box :)
[03:00:41] <tjtr33> ahhh!
[03:01:21] <andypugh> Lay it face-down? I don't think that the photon pressure is enough to launch it accross the room. Though it's probably close.
[03:01:51] <Willburrrr2003> andy, in the error window under debug it says tkinter.tclerror: expected integer but got "normal"
[03:01:56] <Connor> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/173025-zachs_g0704-6.html#post1281782
[03:02:03] <Connor> someone may want to help him with that.
[03:03:15] <andypugh> I just properly crashed my Linuxcnc box. Like, need to walk accross the room and pull the power plug.
[03:03:42] <eric_unterhausen> I've seen 0-5v and direction before
[03:04:17] <Willburrrr2003> andy, also at begin of debug section says can't find -sec Mot - var Mot -num 1, & same can't find for IO,Linuxcnc,Emc
[03:04:24] <andypugh> Willburrrr2003: Sounds like a question for Dewey on the forum.
[03:04:33] <andypugh> You can ignore those.
[03:04:40] <Willburrrr2003> wow andy, that does sound like a crash
[03:05:21] <Willburrrr2003> ok andy, i will post for dewey in the forums and see what he says
[03:05:21] <andypugh> And, annoyingly, no clue what is wrong. But I am doing hariy things with void pointers in kernel modules.
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[03:13:00] <andypugh> Connor: I wasn't quite quick enough to beat some prat suggesting throwing out the Mesa kit and using a kflop.
[03:13:29] <tjtr33> for the bbb, should i use raring or quantal ubuntu image on uSD card?
[03:14:34] <Connor> andypugh: K flop won't work on linuxcnc will it
[03:14:49] <andypugh> Not as far as I know.
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[03:23:19] * ssi fpgas up the world
[03:26:10] <andypugh> Night all
[03:27:01] <tjtr33> gnite
[03:35:26] <zultron> GammaX-Tower, I have folks in Suzhou who can do some legwork if you need.
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[04:12:19] <ssi> my verilog-fu is exceedingly weak :(
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[04:37:00] <The_informer> !HY-TB3DV-M setting
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[05:15:19] <L84Supper2> BBB SOC <1W, LED's >1W :)
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[06:06:02] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, you still on?
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[06:41:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:24:08] <zultron> Hi GammaX-Tower
[07:24:33] <Andy1978> Hi at all
[07:32:34] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, hey I saw your response before and wnated to enquire further. How are you.
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[07:42:30] <zultron> Doing good, GammaX-Tower
[07:42:51] <GammaX-Tower> zultron, can you check Pm Please?
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[07:54:44] <RyanS> are sherline machines actually any more accurate than chinese benchtop machines?
[07:56:45] <archivist> sherline accurate!
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[07:59:08] <RyanS> My question was not is it more accurate than a mori seiki :p
[08:03:09] <archivist> well I read http://www.sherline.com/8700inst.htm and there are factual inaccuracies , I emailed the site
[08:03:39] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, what type of bench top? rf45 type benchtop? pm25?
[08:06:05] <RyanS> the equivalent size....
[08:08:52] <GammaX-Tower> there two totally diff size machines lol
[08:10:33] <RyanS> no I mean sherline vs the smallest sieg would be the comparison
[08:13:08] <GammaX-Tower> ohhh
[08:13:17] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, your interested in buying one of them?
[08:13:48] <archivist> I would get cast iron rather then extruded aluminium
[08:14:06] <RyanS> I'd prefer a multi-turret dual spindle turning centre With live tooling but, you know
[08:14:08] <archivist> that means the chinese crap
[08:14:24] <GammaX-Tower> the cast iron will give much more rigidity.
[08:14:31] <GammaX-Tower> archivist, you goin to the meatup?
[08:15:01] <archivist> I am in england and have no proper job, no funds to go
[08:15:32] <RyanS> yeah, it's just I am wondering about the build quality
[08:16:41] <archivist> well from the statements on the page I linked equating resolution with accuracy, I know which to avoid :)
[08:17:14] <archivist> even after I told the guy in a friendly manner
[08:17:52] <RyanS> umm not sure what you mean..
[08:18:08] <archivist> they are not telling the truth
[08:18:27] <RyanS> who?
[08:18:48] <archivist> sherline
[08:19:08] <archivist> The electronic system has no error in its calculations, but it does round off as previously explained. rounding off is adding an error
[08:19:25] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, whats ur price range if you dont mind me askin?
[08:20:34] <RyanS> oh, so irrespective of the build quality if you get extruded aluminium you are sacrificing rigidity, and therefore accuracy and repeatability
[08:20:40] <archivist> I think RyanS should get an old southbend or something
[08:21:04] <GammaX-Tower> If he wants new I think he should get a pm25 or pm30
[08:21:50] <RyanS> I probably should add cnc
[08:24:34] <RyanS> And also I'm a disabled dude. And I suspect when doing model engineering even if you have a basic cnc its 60% workpiece setup and 40% actual cutting? Wouldn't that be a pretty accurate ratio
[08:25:02] <GammaX-Tower> possibly more % on setup
[08:25:52] <archivist> the smaller and more versatile the machines the more time you spend on setup
[08:28:12] <RyanS> Thought so. However if I have the machining and knowledge and the assistant is just there to change bits and tighten bolts said assistant needs to be somewhat handy
[08:31:05] <RyanS> lotto win and get 2 spindle, 2 turret turning centre is probably the better option :p
[08:31:46] <GammaX-Tower> RyanS, price range?
[08:33:29] <RyanS> $5000 for latge, mill, cn and tolling maximum
[08:33:50] <RyanS> But the setup thing that it is likely pointless exercise
[08:34:49] <RyanS> And a bar feeder for the unrealistic option
[08:35:34] <RyanS> And three-phase power, and a new concrete slab
[08:36:57] <archivist> hlepers skill level will also be a problem
[08:37:41] <RyanS> yeh
[08:37:58] <RyanS> lotto...... lol
[08:38:15] <archivist> we had an electronic kit returned for repair and setup that was made by the Lords, butler, I wish I had pictures
[08:38:26] <RyanS> In which case my budget is $500k
[08:41:02] <RyanS> I wonder if a turning centre with milling function and backside machining would not require actually touching the machining except for sticking a piece stock in (which I would have an industrial robot)
[08:41:12] <RyanS> That's not too much to ask is it
[08:41:32] <RyanS> (First world problems)
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[08:41:59] <RyanS> Touching the machine*
[08:42:42] <RyanS> You just sit behind a PC and have everything remote-controlled
[08:44:41] <archivist> for production possibly, for one offs, I dont think so at the moment
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[08:45:41] <RyanS> doesn't it just mean you will be doing lots of programming
[08:46:34] <RyanS> You get one with an automatic tool changer and have every tool you own in the machine?
[08:48:28] <RyanS> I would say to an enthusiastic engineering student "I'll let you make parts on my Mazak Integrex j-200 if you write me some custom software and set up the robots"
[08:48:33] <archivist> there is some effort in tool setting
[08:49:56] <RyanS> What about a 72 ATC, how many can you possibly need
[08:50:24] <RyanS> Outside help to replace broken tools
[08:50:39] <RyanS> or have two of each
[08:54:04] <RyanS> I thought that those machines have tool length sensors (although I have seen tool setting machines)
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[08:58:12] <archivist> only a percentage have tool measurement and even then its not just length one needs to measure
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[09:03:08] <RyanS> Okay but once you tool the entire machine up, it's only breakages and replacement of worn tools
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[09:05:36] <RyanS> Investment casting, 3-D printer, for model engines
[09:08:17] <RyanS> probably no good for pistons, and crankshafts...
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[11:47:30] <L84Supper2> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-parts/new-z-axes-coupling are <$2 ea, most Keling parts seem to be ~60% less in China
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[12:38:18] <exco> awallin, as promised: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wslOMT6_e6k
[12:38:19] <Tecan> (wslOMT6_e6k) "LinuxCNC Manutec R15 2" by "excogitation" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:45
[12:41:07] <jthornton> cool
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[13:17:56] <archivist> andypugh, just seen a linkedin email did you instigate that or their spam system :)
[13:18:27] <jthornton> I've gotten them as well and suspect spam
[13:18:39] * archivist not trusting of linkedin just yet
[13:18:43] <jthornton> not from Andy but from others in the UK
[13:18:56] <andypugh> It was actually me.
[13:19:09] <archivist> then I shall accept :)
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[13:19:25] <andypugh> I just ticked about 20 people that they have been suggesting to me for months.
[13:19:37] * jthornton is not sure what linkedin does
[13:19:41] <archivist> not me
[13:19:44] <archivist> nor
[13:20:04] <archivist> I think it mainly spams job ads
[13:20:07] <andypugh> It's like facebook but without the social, useful or fun parts?
[13:20:17] <ReadError> its for job connections
[13:20:51] <archivist> I need an appropriate job not some of the crap they have sent so fay
[13:20:57] <andypugh> I think the idea is that if any of my contacts wants a maker of small gears, then they stand a fair chance of finding archivist.
[13:20:58] <archivist> far
[13:22:11] <archivist> we need an unconnected volunteer to test one day :)
[13:22:16] <andypugh> But I think that it is meant more for jobs looking for people than people looking for jobs.
[13:23:19] <archivist> I keep getting some stuff from Rolls Royce derby, looking for graduates, that is not me
[13:25:39] <andypugh> Somebody (not linkedin) tried to interest me in a contract, graduate, job at £8 an hour for 6 months.
[13:25:57] <andypugh> I didn't even bother replying.
[13:26:10] <archivist> were they looking for offshore
[13:26:20] <archivist> India
[13:26:58] <archivist> I have had a couple of fishing emails from Google but I hardly fit the profile
[13:27:23] <archivist> I replied to the first but got no reply
[13:27:31] <andypugh> "Graduate Design Engineer - (6 MONTH CONTRACT) - Hereford - £8-10ph. My client based in the Hereford Area are offering the opportunity for a recent Graduate to join their team on an initial 6 Month Contract. The role will entail working on 3D Designs of Air Conditioning Units using Inventor Software."
[13:28:19] <andypugh> They wouldn't have had to look very hard to see that I am not a recent graduate, even if I do know how to drive Inventor.
[13:28:48] <archivist> I suppose recent graduate are cheaper too these days
[13:29:08] <andypugh> And £28 ph is far nearer the normal rate for Inventor.
[13:29:36] <eric_unterhausen> I don't think recent grads would get out of bed for that kind of money
[13:30:26] <andypugh> They might in Hereford.
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[13:31:52] <archivist> these days some of the "degrees" are not worth what they were
[13:32:53] <archivist> renaming Tech colleges as universities and handing out confetti :)
[13:34:13] <eric_unterhausen> the rapid expansion of college administration costs has made actual educators too expensive
[13:34:47] <eric_unterhausen> we have 200+ students in some upper level engineering elective classes
[13:35:03] <archivist> anyway, I have a run out of bread error, must nip to shops
[13:35:05] <eric_unterhausen> while the administrators sit at starbucks
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[13:38:21] <tjtr33> guess the mechanism: polar magnet & ball bearing ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtKy9Vznxps
[13:38:22] <Tecan> (jtKy9Vznxps) "LinuxCNC - Sandplotting - Sandy 2013 - Sandmalerei" by "Josef Spinnler" is "Tech" - Length: 0:05:13
[13:44:56] <andypugh> That is rather cool.
[13:46:34] <andypugh> Given the way that the ball moves very slowly in the first pattern when it gets to the middle, I think you are right about the polar cooardinates.
[13:49:19] <tjtr33> the german text said something about polar, i was wondering the arm mechanism arrangement.
[13:49:20] <tjtr33> another 'hochscholle' ? ( highschool?) project that outclasses me :(
[13:50:01] <tjtr33> anyways, congrats the Josef Spinnler
[13:50:04] <andypugh> His supervisor was a "Prof Ing" so I suspect not high-school
[13:50:50] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochschule
[13:51:08] <andypugh> hochschule == higher-than-school
[13:52:20] <tjtr33> ah hochspannung was just high V but this is graduate
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[14:17:22] <andypugh> gene78: Did you ever consider an 3-phase motor and VFD for your lathe? I can't see it being more difficult.
[14:18:51] <frallzor> blind is only the man who cannot see!
[14:21:14] <eric_unterhausen> it's a poor craftsman that blames his tools
[14:22:08] <andypugh> The guy who said that dodn't buy his lathe from China.
[14:22:20] <eric_unterhausen> still his fault :)
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[14:23:17] <andypugh> I want this, but I think it will go even higher. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARRISON-M250-240-VOLT-VERY-GOOD-CONDITION-/290920655475
[14:23:53] <eric_unterhausen> we have established that you are just a tool hoarder anyway
[14:24:46] <archivist> is that a restoration job or what
[14:25:13] <andypugh> Compared to some folk (it's OK, archivist, I won't mention your name) I am nothing of the sort.
[14:25:32] <andypugh> archivist: Probably ex-school and never actually used.
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[14:25:48] <frallzor> I´m a tool hoarder, I ordered a whole single 6mm end mill today
[14:26:20] <andypugh> I actually want a more tired one.
[14:26:31] <archivist> hoarding++
[14:26:43] <frallzor> I want any decent lathe, but no room whatsoever =/
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[14:27:45] <eric_unterhausen> denial is proof :)
[14:28:21] <eric_unterhausen> people call me a hoarder. I just threw away more than half of my accumulated junk
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[14:28:31] <archivist> hmm wheels are scruffy compared to the machine
[14:28:34] <IchGuckLive> hi all !
[14:28:52] <frallzor> ironically enough, when my girlfriend moves here I might get one since she will help me make room =P
[14:28:56] <eric_unterhausen> the whole time I was working my butt off to throw stuff away, they kept calling me a hoarder
[14:29:07] <eric_unterhausen> what is wrong with this picture?
[14:29:25] <IchGuckLive> reic are you from germany ?
[14:29:44] <eric_unterhausen> U.S.
[14:29:57] <IchGuckLive> B)
[14:30:14] <andypugh> I fancy converting an M250 to CNC, which makes this plaque on an M250 at work really rather ironic: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/vKtV-CvRkuRA9-ymhL9dW9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[14:30:17] <frallzor> fussball
[14:31:31] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 1998 is quit not a old one
[14:32:04] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: bayern got the pokal
[14:32:41] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: That was when they converted it, I don't know when it was made.
[14:33:10] <exco> I'm trying to connect a pyvcp button to a mesa out pin
[14:33:16] <exco> net myJ2start hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.out <= pyvcp.J2start
[14:33:27] <IchGuckLive> no mater what if it is tecnologie from 1998 it sghoudt be posible and good to go for modern tecnology
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[14:33:31] <exco> ^^ J2start in corresponding xml
[14:33:42] <andypugh> exco: That should work.
[14:33:58] <exco> sim.hal:131: Pin 'pyvcp.J2start' does not exist
[14:34:10] <IchGuckLive> exco: only small letters pleese
[14:34:28] <IchGuckLive> pyvcp.j2start
[14:35:03] <IchGuckLive> and did you do this inside your postgui hal
[14:35:37] <andypugh> exco: You need to put that code in the postgui halfile, as the PyVCP panel isn't loaded when the main HAL file runs.
[14:35:43] <IchGuckLive> locks like it is in your mashine hal there is no pyvcp
[14:36:09] <andypugh> You also need to set the is_output parameter of the GPIO pin (or it will be an input).
[14:36:17] <exco> postgui was the key I guess
[14:36:35] <IchGuckLive> B) NP
[14:36:47] <exco> yes, andypugh thanks: setp hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.is_output true
[14:36:51] <andypugh> And, actually, you can use capital letters if you want, but you are storing up typo-trouble for the future. :-)
[14:37:49] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: what is the oposit of capitel in english language
[14:37:59] <andypugh> lower-case
[14:38:04] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[14:38:11] <andypugh> possibly "uncial"
[14:38:57] <DJ9DJ> hrhrhr
[14:39:20] <andypugh> Not "uncial" that is something else.
[14:39:22] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majuscule
[14:40:36] <exco> I should be able to watch a state change in hal hm2_5i22.0.gpio.064.out then ... but cant :(
[14:41:11] <IchGuckLive> halmeter does not change ß
[14:41:12] <andypugh> How are you watching?
[14:41:16] <DJ9DJ> you should do some more practice on watching then ;)
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[14:42:25] <exco> machine -> show hal -> tree -> hm2_5i22 -> gpio -> 64 -> watch
[14:42:37] <IchGuckLive> exco: maybe you need a toggle for the pin to get it stable on a True or False
[14:43:05] <exco> IchGuckLive, yes, I have a toggle also and that doesn't do anything yet ;-)
[14:43:26] <IchGuckLive> did you add a servo tread for the toggle
[14:43:33] <exco> I can see the change in hal -> pyvcp->j2start
[14:44:12] <exco> I don't think so
[14:44:30] <IchGuckLive> then the button touch is not regonised
[14:44:58] <IchGuckLive> addf toggle.0 servo-thread
[14:45:44] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: shouldn't be needed
[14:46:16] <andypugh> exco: Are you using the watch tab? The other tab doesn't update.
[14:46:26] <exco> yes, watch tab
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[14:46:53] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: yes http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/toggle.9.html you are right
[14:46:54] <andypugh> But, in the other tab you can see if the gpio pin is linked as expected. It is possible that your postgui hal file just didn't get run.
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[14:48:18] <IchGuckLive> # Single file that is executed after the GUI has started. Only supported by
[14:48:19] <IchGuckLive> # AXIS at this time (only AXIS creates a HAL component of its own)
[14:48:21] <IchGuckLive> POSTGUI_HALFILE = plasma_test.hal
[14:48:23] <IchGuckLive> HALUI = halui
[14:48:54] <IchGuckLive> in the [HAL] section byond the main hal files
[14:49:20] <andypugh> I think that "Only Axis" comment may no longer be true.
[14:49:52] <IchGuckLive> 2.5.0 no 2.5.2 is on yes
[14:50:16] <andypugh> And the comment will persist in any config that already exists.
[14:50:30] <IchGuckLive> B)
[14:51:25] <IchGuckLive> exco: is it a Joint2 driver power up button
[14:53:03] <IchGuckLive> im getting here over the youtube channel more and more questions on a stand alone THC axis as many CAM there plasmas with big CAD systems that does not include post for thc
[14:53:48] <IchGuckLive> and pour polnish supplyer does get a cheep standalone Z axis for that
[14:55:34] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouu-5mLDNwU
[14:55:36] <Tecan> (Ouu-5mLDNwU) "Plasma THC Controller + CNConv USB program - Automated Torch Height" by "PromaElektronika" is "Tech" - Length: 0:01:12
[14:55:36] <exco> I need to dive through my code a bit ... thanks for the input.
[14:55:57] <IchGuckLive> look how he is cutting ready punched curved sheeds
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[15:08:27] <tjtr33> http://proma-elektronika.pl/download/doc/thc_en.pdf ( sorry, i could not read the Polish )
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[15:10:44] <tjtr33> i thought i remembered proma, they have and edm generator also http://proma-elektronika.pl/edm-generator-kontroler-osi
[15:11:26] <tjtr33> 1900 zlotnicjz
[15:12:04] <tjtr33> 590$ US
[15:14:28] <andypugh> Mounting the THC sensor and logic on the Z axis does sound like it might make sense.
[15:17:57] <tjtr33> we always had best edm control when process sensor and dc chopper were closest to discharge ( approach 0 len to reduce transmission probs )
[15:19:05] <tjtr33> the AGie 'S-box' was not cutting condensors, they were cable tuners ( too tiny for energy )
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[15:48:07] <Tom_itx> somewhat OT: http://www.electronicproducts.com/Electromechanical_Components/Motors_and_Controllers/New_and_interesting_electric_motors.aspx
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[16:07:58] <andypugh> SRM sounds interesting.
[16:08:26] <andypugh> (Actually, it sounds like an old-school non-hybrid stepper motor)
[16:09:16] <pcw_home> Yep I'm old enough to remember when 8" floppy drives used those
[16:09:38] <pcw_home> I think they were 3 phase
[16:10:32] <JT-Shop> I don't feel so old now... I only remember 5 1/4" floppys and they were really floppy
[16:10:55] <tjtr33> 8" was floppier
[16:11:06] <tjtr33> CPM!
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[16:11:18] <pcw_home> ZCPR
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[16:12:00] <JT-Shop> I still have some 5 1/4" drives and disks
[16:13:10] <Tom_itx> i finally tossed my box full of Novell disks but have a few others
[16:13:12] <tjtr33> heh kansas city standard tape format on 1/4 inch audio cassette ( just so you didnt have to key in the boot code )
[16:15:08] <tjtr33> as i sit here using cloud9 and a usb thumb and a uSD ... we live in sci-fi
[16:15:56] <andypugh> There is a nice picture on Wikipedia of an 8GB uSD sat on top of an 8k magnetic core
[16:16:25] <tjtr33> donuts! mag core
[16:18:28] <andypugh> The mux16 hal component offers the option to interpret the input bits as gray-code. Am I right in thinking that the same effect can be had by simply setting up the inputs to suit?
[16:18:54] <cradek> surely
[16:19:30] <andypugh> That sounds easier with the arbitrary-size mux I am plating with.
[16:19:40] <andypugh> (well, easier for me, at least).
[16:19:52] <eric_unterhausen> I think I finally tossed my last stack of punch cards
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[16:22:33] <pcw_home> Now if someone would take away my old Versatec plotter...
[16:22:41] <ryan_turner> Hi, what electronics work with LinuxCNC? I have a few reprap printer controllers sitting around
[16:23:00] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[16:23:02] <ryan_turner> would love to be able to use arduino/ramps or rumba
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[16:23:50] <JT-Shop> zumba maybe
[16:24:24] <ryan_turner> Im interesting in building a small CNC out of old RepRap Mendel Prusa i2 parts and other random stuff I have on hand
[16:24:27] <ryan_turner> as well as 3D printed parts.
[16:24:58] <ryan_turner> mainly interested in cutting PCBs though maybe I'd try wood.
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[16:26:18] <ryan_turner> trying to find how linuxcnc is supposed to interface with the steppers...
[16:26:41] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: a mendel isnt sturdy enough to mill anything hader than chester cheese
[16:26:45] <ryan_turner> Ah, serial port?
[16:27:09] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, I've disassembled it.
[16:29:10] <ryan_turner> So, basically Ill need to make a board that interfaces my stepper drivers (pololus) with that serial out.
[16:30:09] <archivist> parallel not serial
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[16:30:49] <ryan_turner> aha
[16:30:56] <ryan_turner> so something I dont even have heh :D
[16:31:41] <ryan_turner> I recognize XYZ, but whats A?
[16:32:20] <eric_unterhausen> 'A'nother axis
[16:34:23] <JT-Shop> XYZABCUVW are the axes
[16:34:36] <toastydeath> a is usually rotary around x
[16:34:45] <toastydeath> (emphasis on usually, not always)
[16:35:01] <toastydeath> b is rotary around y, c is rotary around z (hence c axis on a lathe)
[16:35:20] <cpresser> ryan_turner: do you stepper-drives have dir/pulse inputs?
[16:36:20] <ryan_turner> dir and step
[16:36:45] <cpresser> then you only need a breakout-board for the parallel-port and you are done
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[16:36:52] <ryan_turner> yep
[16:36:58] <ryan_turner> I have a PSU already
[16:37:05] <ryan_turner> have about 6 nema17s sitting around
[16:37:09] <cpresser> you can build one, or get a cheap chinese one off ebay
[16:37:29] <ryan_turner> I have a parallel port housing that I bought a few years ago by mistake
[16:37:38] <ryan_turner> just going to solder up the needed 17 wires and then go from there.
[16:38:30] <cpresser> i recommend to use some TTL or CMOS buffers in the lines
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[16:38:47] <ryan_turner> are there any decent small CNC designs that utilize common parts and 3D printables?
[16:38:55] <ryan_turner> ah
[16:39:34] <ryan_turner> I do not have any line drivers on hand
[16:40:03] <cpresser> those are not mandatory, but they protect your par-port :)
[16:40:12] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: serial port is nonsens if you want to use linuxCNC
[16:40:40] <ryan_turner> cpresser, speaking of, gotta figure out what to buy to make me have a parallel port lol
[16:41:05] <ryan_turner> $10, ok.
[16:41:10] <cpresser> ryan_turner: a PC with a parallel port
[16:41:18] <cpresser> usb-parallel _wont_ work!
[16:41:19] <Loetmichel> cpresser: the pololus are miniature Allego stepper drivers on a miniature board
[16:41:21] <ryan_turner> Oh it wont?
[16:41:32] <cpresser> no. not at all.
[16:41:32] <ryan_turner> well shit :(
[16:41:56] <ryan_turner> Well that just put an end to my project :P
[16:42:17] <cpresser> get some old mainboard from friends or ebay
[16:43:14] <ryan_turner> Yeah... hmm...
[16:43:24] <andypugh> bizarre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3JFmrlgWAk
[16:43:25] <Tecan> (b3JFmrlgWAk) "Trained Fish Does Amazing Tricks" by "r2fishschool" is "Animals" - Length: 0:00:35
[16:43:26] <ryan_turner> ok, guess this isn't going to be a holiday project :P
[16:43:38] <Loetmichel> cpresser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex39zP8alnY thats a typical reprap board with 4 steppers and 5 Drivers (the small square plugs left "upper level"
[16:43:39] <Tecan> (ex39zP8alnY) "ramps1 4 test" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:38
[16:44:08] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: pc or laptop?
[16:44:19] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, with regards to what?
[16:44:22] <Loetmichel> DEsktop Pc or laptop
[16:44:31] <Loetmichel> for the LinuxCNC
[16:44:33] <ryan_turner> I was hoping to run off of a desktop
[16:44:42] <Loetmichel> better so ;-)
[16:45:01] <Loetmichel> and the desktop has no lpt left?
[16:45:07] <ryan_turner> nope
[16:45:08] <Loetmichel> lpt port
[16:45:33] <Loetmichel> hmm, cheap PCI LPT cards are about 10 eur or so
[16:45:43] <Loetmichel> should fit
[16:45:55] <Loetmichel> how fast is that desktop?
[16:46:03] <andypugh> If it is a desktop then you should be able to install a PCI parallel card (or, better, some proper IO hardware). There is also a pretty good chance that there is a parallel port header on the motherboard, even if there isn't one on the back panel.
[16:46:09] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, why is it suitable to have an LPT card instead of a USB?
[16:46:27] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: becuase USB isnt realtime capable
[16:46:34] <ryan_turner> Ah, ok.
[16:46:38] <andypugh> USB isn't time-deterministic. You can send a stp request and actually get it 10mS later.
[16:46:47] <JT-Shop> we sure need a link to answer the USB, serial questions
[16:46:51] <Loetmichel> -> you cant "wiggle" with a portpin with 50khz over usb ;-)
[16:47:12] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, it's a core i7 with SSD
[16:47:41] <Loetmichel> andypugh: iirc the max specified round trip for a usb packet is about ONE SECOND ;-)
[16:47:42] <andypugh> That might be inconveniently high-spec and complicated
[16:48:31] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: thats a bit "shooting with cannons on singing birds" ;-)
[16:48:33] <ryan_turner> andypugh, ugh, sounds like my radio programming people... cant have a processor faster than about 512 MHz or it causes problems
[16:48:43] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, its the only desktop I own.
[16:48:47] <ryan_turner> (its what Im on right now)
[16:49:33] <andypugh> Well, it's pretty easy to burn the LinuxCNC live CD, boot from that, and run the latency test. No changes to the pC needed.
[16:49:47] <andypugh> What's your current OS?
[16:49:48] <archivist> find a more sensible pc at a garage sale
[16:50:01] <ryan_turner> andypugh, ubuntu 13.04 with a few VMs
[16:50:19] <ryan_turner> archivist, I'd really prefer to not pick up more hardware. I'm a college student with limited budget/space
[16:51:13] <andypugh> Thought so. We are waiting for RTAI support in 3.NNN kernels. So (embarassingly) LinuxCNC doesn't really work on anyhting newer than 10,04 at the moment. (yes, we know...)
[16:51:34] <ryan_turner> Heh :D
[16:51:44] <archivist> running a realtime os under a vm is also not really sensible
[16:52:03] <andypugh> I do it all the time, for testing, but it wouldn't run real hardware.
[16:52:11] <Loetmichel> archivist: thats like "putting the suare thing in the round hole ;-)
[16:52:17] <Loetmichel> square
[16:52:31] <archivist> I prefer hex
[16:52:32] <ryan_turner> I didnt mean to say that as a recommendation for how to run this?
[16:52:45] <Roguish> Ryan_turner: what ever u do, be sure to use opto isolators to keep the magic smoke inside the PC where it belongs.
[16:53:06] <Loetmichel> Roguish: if he uses a cheap lpt card: who cars
[16:53:08] <Loetmichel> cares
[16:53:10] <ryan_turner> Whats the opinion of you guys on the PICnc Jr board?
[16:53:12] <andypugh> ryan_turner: The BeagleBoneBlack might be a solution. When we get that going too. Run LinuxCNC on the bone (lots of lovely IO) and control it with a web interface.
[16:53:20] <archivist> bare metal old pc most have cost me zero
[16:53:29] <Loetmichel> the card will act as a sacrifice in case of any mishap
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[16:53:48] <ryan_turner> andypugh, yeahg i was just looking through a raspi solution, beagle fits better but didnt find any results for that.
[16:53:50] <IchGuckLive> hi all Back B)
[16:53:59] <ryan_turner> andypugh, http://code.google.com/p/picnc/ the bottom looks most interesting to me.
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[16:54:22] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: where are you located?
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[16:54:28] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, Memphis TN USA
[16:54:29] <andypugh> I just sent off the artwork to the PCB manufacturers for an RPi to Parallel port adapter :-)
[16:54:49] <Loetmichel> in germany i can buy second hand Coputers from leasing for next to noting
[16:55:08] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, shouldnt cost much here either, but space is a concern living in a 10' x 10' room
[16:55:21] <Loetmichel> i woudlt go through the hassle to put the only PC to work on this. i would buy a cheap desktop
[16:55:28] <archivist> stack vertically
[16:55:33] <Loetmichel> ans even use its PSU for the mill ;-)
[16:55:55] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: thats about nie square meters?
[16:55:58] <ryan_turner> Heh dont worry I've got an overkill 40 amp linear power supply
[16:56:01] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, yeah
[16:56:08] <ryan_turner> err 30 amp *
[16:56:11] <Loetmichel> my workshop is bigger... 3*4m ;-)
[16:56:18] <andypugh> How big is the desktop case? Room for a second mini-ITX atom board in there? Can share PSU that way.
[16:56:19] <ryan_turner> Yeah and thats my bedroom
[16:56:39] <ryan_turner> yeah a mini would fit most likely
[16:56:50] <ryan_turner> but now Im curious about the raspi or beagle route
[16:56:50] <Tom_itx> andypugh what pcb company did you go with?
[16:57:07] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: and no room left, too... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=9033
[16:57:08] <Loetmichel> :-)
[16:57:15] <Loetmichel> <- messie :-)
[16:57:19] <ryan_turner> Anyway, Ill be watching in here for a bit :)
[16:57:22] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: pete from tenesy is about 25mil away from you
[16:57:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Seeed.
[16:57:34] <ryan_turner> IchGuckLive, I dont know who that is
[16:58:07] <IchGuckLive> he is also a linuxcnc reprap men
[16:58:14] <ryan_turner> ah
[16:58:20] <DJ9DJ> IchGuckLive, from where?
[16:58:35] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: he will join us not every day but offen
[16:58:38] <ryan_turner> Its a lazy way to say tennessee
[16:58:46] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[16:58:50] -!- skorasaurus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
[16:58:56] <IchGuckLive> tennessee O.O B)
[16:59:08] <DJ9DJ> :)
[16:59:34] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: iirc IchGuckLive is german like me, cut him some slack on his english ;-)
[16:59:39] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: the D525Mw board gives you way more options
[16:59:54] <DJ9DJ> channel overtake by the krauts ;)
[17:00:13] <Loetmichel> DJ9DJ: "PSSST!"
[17:00:15] <Loetmichel> :-)
[17:00:31] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: way more krauts in the USA as they eat hotdogs B)
[17:02:04] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: at non space room so what is the main goal for the mashine to be reatched
[17:02:15] <ryan_turner> IchGuckLive, PCB cutting
[17:02:33] <ryan_turner> just need something small.
[17:02:34] <IchGuckLive> ah my little education mashines !!!
[17:03:00] <Loetmichel> the best are the american co-workers of my wife... quote:" I am german, too!" wife: "so you speak german?" "no, sorry. But my gandgrandpa was german!"
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[17:03:25] <ryan_turner> something like 150 x 150 x 50 mm would be plenty
[17:03:27] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: http://mechmo.de/lothar/cnc_4.JPG
[17:03:40] <IchGuckLive> its 160x160x65
[17:04:05] <ryan_turner> So, bed moves Y, and the Z is mounted on moving x
[17:04:07] <IchGuckLive> place is 250x250x300
[17:04:15] <ryan_turner> Yeah, that's about the perfect size
[17:04:23] <ryan_turner> I dont have a way to manufacture that though
[17:04:50] <ryan_turner> I was hoping to get away with as much 3D printed as possible. Probably going to use aluminum extrusions and 3D printed parts.
[17:04:56] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: the proxxon minimot: you must nbe kidding!
[17:05:02] <IchGuckLive> then get a Chinas one at that size for 400USD
[17:05:04] -!- vladimirek [vladimirek!~vladimire@95.105.250.72] has joined #linuxcnc
[17:05:34] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: aluminium extrusions tend to be bend as a banana because of the production process
[17:05:44] <ryan_turner> Loetmichel, oh?
[17:05:45] <Loetmichel> -s+like
[17:06:18] <Loetmichel> ryan_turner: ok, the banana was exaggerated
[17:06:49] <Loetmichel> but an 40*40mm aluminium extrusion with t-slots can be bent 5mm on a meter length
[17:06:54] <Loetmichel> BTST
[17:07:25] <IchGuckLive> ryan_turner: pete has a shop and can help you with the parts
[17:07:45] <IchGuckLive> it woudt be chep as 250USD to build
[17:08:46] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: student
[17:08:48] * DJ9DJ thinks IchGuckLive's keyboard must be broken in some way. It seems to eat letters!
[17:08:54] <fragalot_> ryan_turner: lil' tip: STAY AWAY from the "sable 2015"
[17:09:05] <ryan_turner> LOL
[17:09:05] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: you got it
[17:09:07] <ryan_turner> was just looking at it
[17:09:11] <Loetmichel> if he wants to reuse his reprap parts 250$ is off the chart ;-)
[17:09:17] <fragalot_> I have one for PCB cutting, and there's a .3mm bow in the bed, and .5mm play on the Y bearings
[17:09:37] * fragalot_ is selling his reprap
[17:09:39] <ryan_turner> wow
[17:09:43] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: seems reasonable ;-)
[17:09:53] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: perfect for styrofoam mauling
[17:10:21] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: let me guess: the rails are 8mm mild steel?
[17:10:25] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: bu not in size
[17:10:27] <Loetmichel> NON-supported?
[17:10:28] -!- exco has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:10:35] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: no they're actually 12mm hardened
[17:10:44] <fragalot_> unsupported for ~40cm or so
[17:10:54] <Loetmichel> not MUCH better ;-)
[17:10:56] <fragalot_> :P
[17:11:20] <Loetmichel> my really cheap chinese "mill" has 20mm hardened rails in y
[17:11:27] <Loetmichel> unsupported for 400mm
[17:11:37] <Loetmichel> and THAT tends to be a bit thin :-)
[17:11:40] <fragalot_> haha
[17:11:51] <fragalot_> well only the X is unsupported
[17:11:59] <fragalot_> the Z isn't supported either, but that's only 10cm long
[17:12:01] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6nphBHcuZrw
[17:12:02] <Tecan> (6nphBHcuZrw) "Styrocut Styroporschneiden in 5Achsen XYBUV" by "Thiel Volker" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:50
[17:12:03] <fragalot_> the Y is fully supported
[17:12:10] <fragalot_> but the bed is bowed so it doesn't really matter anyway xD
[17:12:25] <fragalot_> wait, it's the X bearings with the play on 'm
[17:12:31] <fragalot_> which prevent me from milling the bed flat
[17:13:01] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14148 <- anyway: it does its job, and 2kEur fir a mill with a watercooled spindle, vfd and tools, "plug and pray" ... you have to compromize a bit
[17:13:02] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: I made a machine like that in uni :) later we converted it to be an automated cocktail bartender
[17:13:05] <fragalot_> quite fun
[17:13:12] <IchGuckLive> fragalot_: why not vacuum table and plane milling
[17:13:20] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: NotBad
[17:13:33] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: the play in the X bearings is too much to do anythin guseful
[17:13:42] <fragalot_> I need to replace those but the way it's built doesn't make that very easy
[17:13:42] <Loetmichel> it even cale with a c axis ;)
[17:13:47] <Loetmichel> came
[17:14:15] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: neat - is it worth anything?
[17:14:24] <Loetmichel> more or less
[17:14:31] <fragalot_> lol
[17:14:35] <Loetmichel> its the only thing that has some play
[17:14:39] <IchGuckLive> there are cheep smale and flat vacuum Tabless available for less then 100USD
[17:14:40] <Loetmichel> about half a degree
[17:15:09] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: that doesent help if his x axis is cluttering around
[17:15:24] <IchGuckLive> agree
[17:15:34] <fragalot_> I used to have a micro vice on there that was milled sorta flat
[17:15:35] <IchGuckLive> so first fix the miss
[17:15:41] <fragalot_> (20mm high, 150mm clamping)
[17:15:42] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: a question: are you from the ex-DDR?
[17:15:50] <IchGuckLive> no
[17:15:53] <fragalot_> was OK for PCB's, if they didn't have to be accurate :D
[17:16:03] <Loetmichel> because your englis reads like you never learned it at school
[17:16:06] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: you know 40km south of you
[17:16:06] <Loetmichel> +h
[17:16:13] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: well the X is cluttering, causing problems in the Y direction :P
[17:16:38] <fragalot_> first I suspected the Z, those turned out fine and had adjustment screws.. the Y for some reason does not
[17:16:53] <IchGuckLive> the 2015
[17:17:25] <fragalot_> and I just don't have the budget to really fix it at the moment
[17:17:37] <IchGuckLive> there is a ballbearing kit out for that mashine that fits with no extra work
[17:17:54] <fragalot_> IchGuckLive: it's got ball bearings now.. what kit are you talking about?
[17:17:56] <IchGuckLive> AH money makes the world go round
[17:18:17] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: my fist CNC had m5 stainless threaded rods and brass nuts as drive...
[17:18:20] * fragalot_ knows it's got ball bearings because the first time he took it apart they all fell out :D
[17:18:28] <Loetmichel> lasted about 8 hrs
[17:18:32] <fragalot_> lol
[17:18:43] <IchGuckLive> ROFL
[17:18:44] <Loetmichel> then the nuts had a nice and smoot 5mm hol instead of a thread ;-)
[17:18:46] <fragalot_> my first had M8 stainless with brass nuts...
[17:18:53] <fragalot_> NEVER trust your endstops
[17:18:55] <fragalot_> that's all I can say
[17:19:10] <fragalot_> I warped the whole frame and ended up binning everything but the motors & electronics
[17:19:14] <fragalot_> xD
[17:19:19] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[17:19:34] <Loetmichel> that wouldnt be possibel with my first...
[17:19:39] <Loetmichel> possible
[17:19:46] <fragalot_> well I kinda underspecced the frame..
[17:19:53] <fragalot_> it wasn't very fast, but it had a lot of torue
[17:19:59] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=2859
[17:20:04] <fragalot_> N17 motors with a 10:1 reduction
[17:20:05] <fragalot_> xD
[17:20:10] <fragalot_> (read: EXTREMELY SLOW)
[17:20:25] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: cute!
[17:20:28] <Loetmichel> it wouldnt have bent... just disitegrated in millions of little PMMA shards ;-)
[17:20:34] <fragalot_> lol
[17:20:56] <IchGuckLive> PMMA Poly Methyl Met acrylat
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[17:21:06] <IchGuckLive> "Plexiglas"
[17:21:16] <Loetmichel> right
[17:21:25] <fragalot_> Loetmichel: is IchGuckLive drunk? :P
[17:21:50] <Loetmichel> fragalot_: no, it seems he learned english by hearing it, not by a school ;-)
[17:22:05] <fragalot_> I used to always correct my teacher, lol
[17:22:13] <fragalot_> later she ended up coming to me for help instead >.<
[17:22:24] <Loetmichel> sounds familliar...
[17:22:33] <fragalot_> hey look what a bargain!
[17:22:35] <fragalot_> http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/321130744404?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
[17:22:38] <fragalot_> *cough*
[17:22:44] <fragalot_> *nudge*
[17:23:04] <fragalot_> *wink*
[17:24:17] <Loetmichel> <- had made an "umschlulung" ( sponmsored second aprenticeship by the unemplyment agency)... 22 people, one was a gardener, one was a sports teacher one was a baker and so on... i was the ONLY one who had a computer background... the aprenticeship was for the "IT-systems electronican" job...
[17:24:40] <Loetmichel> ... it lasted three days than anone just called me "prof" ;-)
[17:25:05] <fragalot_> haha
[17:27:01] <Loetmichel> and one of the teachers never said more than three sentences, then looked in my direction to check if i am nodding or shaking my head ;)
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[17:28:55] <fragalot_> XD
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[17:29:48] <IchGuckLive> holgi: O.O B) new vid on gamepad
[17:34:33] <ryan_turner> seen PetefromTn
[17:34:40] <ryan_turner> !seen PetefromTn
[17:34:40] <the_wench> last seen in 2013-05-24 03:29:44GMT 87:04:56 ago, saying Client Quit
[17:46:09] <IchGuckLive> silence 1
[17:46:59] <skroon> I would like to level my spoilboard, with some custom written gcode program, i'm wondering though how I can make a loop? so I can say repeate last movement but with X-1.4 ? and keep repeating until X == 85.0 ?
[17:48:15] <andypugh> LinuxCNC G-code supports loops.
[17:50:00] <skroon> is there a "native" way in gcode alone?
[17:50:08] <andypugh> #1 = -1.4 // O100 while [#1 LT 85] // G0 X#1 Y100 // #1 = [#1 + 0.25] // O100 endwhile // M2
[17:50:56] <andypugh> I missed out the G1 move there....
[17:51:57] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html
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[17:56:47] <skroon> nice thanks
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[18:07:09] <IchGuckLive> skroon: there is a pattern example in the nc-file folder
[18:14:48] <IchGuckLive> here is the pattern example for X main and Y main action http://pastebin.com/5s44j6bU
[18:15:14] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today
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[18:44:37] <cbjamo> Is anyone from Mesa around?
[18:45:36] <Tom_itx> ping pcw_home
[18:46:01] <cbjamo> thanks
[18:47:38] <cbjamo> Or, does anyone know how much the "7I50 SPI I/O expander" costs? It isn't listed on the pricelist.
[18:48:31] <andypugh> It is in the price list. $45
[18:48:46] <andypugh> (It is under accessories)
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[18:51:38] <cbjamo> I can't find, are you using a different one than this: http://www.mesanet.com/prices.pdf
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[18:55:50] <pcw_home> I would suggest a sserial expander instead of the 7I50, just because it more integrated into linuxCNC
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[18:57:26] <andypugh> Yes, I seem to be looking at a different price list.
[18:57:47] <pcw_home> s/it/its/
[18:58:45] <skroon> those "numbered parameters" is that something LinuxCNC is using only, or is it in the gcode spec?
[18:59:11] <andypugh> Things like #1 ?
[18:59:22] <andypugh> Very standard.
[18:59:49] <andypugh> #<human_readable_name> is a bit less standard.
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[19:00:36] <pcw_home> andtpugh: noticed a sserial bug
[19:01:42] <cbjamo> pcw_home: What part would you recommend? I need 12 digital outs, 6 digital ins, and some way to sense temperature, I haven't decided how yet.
[19:02:39] <pcw_home> connected to what?
[19:02:52] <cbjamo> 5I22
[19:03:05] <andypugh> pcw_home: Hopefully andtpugh can fix it for you :-)
[19:03:16] <skroon> andypugh: right indeed stuff like #1 so if I understand correctly when I would do: #1 100.0 G00 X#1
[19:03:19] <pcw_home> you are out of 5I22 pins already?
[19:03:28] <skroon> then it should move the X axis to 100.0 right?
[19:03:31] <pcw_home> HA
[19:03:55] <andypugh> Needs to be #1 = 100 (assignment)
[19:03:59] <cbjamo> No, I was going to use the 7I46 so that I could read temperatures in over serial.
[19:04:49] <skroon> andypugh: ah yeah forgot the assignment there.. but basically that should do it right ?
[19:05:33] <cbjamo> Relatedly, how difficult would that be to do from a linux cnc standpoint?
[19:05:45] <pcw_home> The SPI /LinuxCNC interface is fairly hairy...
[19:06:27] <skroon> andypugh: for some reason my machine doesn't like that syntax
[19:07:08] <cbjamo> Ok, how would you reccomend temperature sensing? I need to sense 5 separate temps, between 180-300 C.
[19:07:44] <andypugh> cbjamo: Arduino/USB works for non-realtime.
[19:09:42] <pcw_home> I would use a 7I88 (when we finish it)
[19:09:53] <pcw_home> 8 channels TC
[19:12:59] <pcw_home> Well, much as I try, I can put off cleaning the chicken coops no longer
[19:16:09] <andypugh> cbjamo: When he says that the SPI interface is a bit hairy, he means that you will need to write a driver like mesa_7i65.comp.
[19:16:36] <pcw_home> andypugh sserial bug is: remote faults (say a 7I76 shorted output) are not detected when running, only at startup
[19:18:01] <cbjamo> pcw_home: any idea on when the 7I88 will be available? If it isn't in the next 2ish weeks then I'll need to go with something else.
[19:19:26] <pcw_home> This is because the runtime error check is not run unless there is a transfer failure (but you can have a remote fault like overcurrent or overvoltage or undervoltage that is not a communication error so the transfer succeeds)
[19:21:28] <pcw_home> cbjamo: Probably not in the next 2 weeks, If its not realtime, the Arduino Idea may work for you, (or a 7I87 = 8 +-10V analog inputs)
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[19:23:09] <cbjamo> pcw_home: I'll probably use an arduino, and run the heater mosfets from it as well, then just run the pid on there. I was hoping to do it all from the one card if I could.
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[19:29:12] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, whats the water system like for that spindle? need pressure/temp/flow control? (or a bucket and bilge pump :)
[19:34:24] <tjtr33> got a model http://ugracnc.com/technical-resources/cnc-spindles/simple-spindle-water-cooling-system.html
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[19:39:19] <Loetmichel> tjr: pump for a room fountain, aquarium tubes, somme car cooler fluid and water-> done
[19:39:40] <Loetmichel> if the bucket with the pump is big enough no designated radiator is needed
[19:39:46] <Loetmichel> tjtr33
[19:40:20] <Loetmichel> look at my home CNC
[19:40:51] <tjtr33> thx! got some aquaruim pumps and a 'Little Giant'
[19:41:36] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Ov69t0uwo
[19:41:37] <Tecan> (a9Ov69t0uwo) "HFspindel fertig" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:00:38
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[19:45:47] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, thx! reminds me of the 'wordless workshop in old Popular Mechanics ) http://www.roydoty.com/syndicated/wordless-panel.htm
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[21:13:52] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:33:06] <Logxen> say, does anyone in here know how 4th-6th axis rotary support works? i am a motion controller firmware developer and I am trying to figure out specifically what existing cam tools are going to generate gcode-wise
[22:33:43] <andypugh> It depends...
[22:34:20] <andypugh> I think a lot is done in pure CAM, where the CAM system knows the rotation axis positions relative to the tool tips.
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[22:35:35] <Logxen> andypugh: that's what I'm hoping ;)
[22:35:36] <andypugh> However it is possible (with the right kinematics) to program tool-point positions.
[22:36:16] <Logxen> the combined feedrate thing I've read about sorta worries me though for some reason
[22:36:16] <andypugh> With moving-work it is a bit hard to visualise, because your planes move with the work.
[22:37:34] <andypugh> That is partly why it works better in the CAM much of the time, or that is my assumption. The CAM system knows a lot more about the cut and the system as a whole than the controller can. All that the controller sees is the G-code.
[22:38:31] <Logxen> exactly... so I would expect the cam needs to segment the gcode quite a bit
[22:39:26] <andypugh> It gets awkward, as Gcode can only really define curves in the cartesian planes.
[22:39:36] <Logxen> so I kinda want to verify how the existing systems work with someone who is familiar with them before I start coding ;)
[22:39:38] <Logxen> yeah exactly
[22:40:59] <andypugh> I don't know why. It seems that given a start position and an end position there is only one plane that also includes any given centre position, and only one radius that touches both end-points.
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[22:41:42] <andypugh> Well, I have never touched the motion planner.
[22:42:36] <Logxen> andypugh: it's my hope that you are right... it would mean that I don't actually have to do anything special with the rotary axes... just throw them on the pile with linear axes
[22:42:52] <andypugh> I think the last person to touch motion was cradek
[22:43:59] <andypugh> A lot of "5-axis" work isn't really.
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[22:44:49] <Logxen> yeah... if I'm gonna implement 4 I might as well implement 6 though as far as the firmware goes
[22:45:10] <andypugh> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh9eCupbsso looks to be "real" 5-axis cutting.
[22:45:11] <Tecan> (Oh9eCupbsso) "Linuxcnc-5axis- 2" by "Rudy du Preez" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:13
[22:45:46] <Logxen> wow that's awesome
[22:46:32] <andypugh> Claims to be using XYZACkins
[22:47:01] <andypugh> So I think he is programming tool XYZ and AC relative to the workpiece.
[22:47:26] <andypugh> ie, A and C are tilt angles relative to the bit of wood.
[22:48:08] <andypugh> But I am not usre that is the usual way of doing that.
[22:48:11] <Logxen> andypugh: yeah, centered on workpiece as opposed to the tool?
[22:48:18] <Logxen> I think it can be either
[22:48:39] <andypugh> (I keep thinking I can hear myself talking in the backgorund of that video, but it is actually a normal person speeded up)
[22:50:15] <andypugh> Logxen: Yes. If you consider a robot arm, then the AC is realtive to the floor, because the "tool" moves with the roatary axes.
[22:50:50] <andypugh> But if the work moves ralative to the tool, then the coordinate system moves (and rotates) with the work
[22:51:10] * Logxen nods
[22:51:31] <andypugh> But you may very well not need to worry about that. Leaving it to the CAM is perfectly valid I think
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[22:51:55] <Logxen> yeah I think I'm supposed to just trig the values in as if they were linear
[22:52:08] <Logxen> so to speak :P
[22:52:32] <Logxen> and the cam has to know where everything is relatively
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[22:55:44] <crotchet> Logxen: The way most cam works is to output an intermediate file that, in the case of normal 3d, just has tool position. For multi-axis, you need tool position *and* a tool vector direction. Then it's the post writer's job to make it work with the given machine.
[23:00:41] <Logxen> I see... so one could choose to take over at either stage...
[23:01:27] <Logxen> I want a spec for that intermediate point
[23:02:23] <Logxen> are you sure the rot is expressed as a vector and not in degrees?
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[23:04:31] <crotchet> http://pastebin.com/wGJ3aZE8
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[23:05:48] <Logxen> hm, that's not even gcode yet
[23:05:53] <crotchet> That is a type of intermediate file accepted by most cam programs. The first 3 numbers are position. The next line, on the $ continuation, is the vector direction.
[23:06:10] <Logxen> yeah makes sense
[23:06:13] <crotchet> 0,0,1, is along the z axis
[23:08:06] <crotchet> In this case, the x component of the tool axis is zero- this was for a 4th axis only machine, the only type I have experience in.
[23:08:31] <Logxen> http://www.cncsnw.com/4thHowTo.htm
[23:08:46] <Logxen> that ^ describes using degrees instead of vector
[23:12:56] <crotchet> the vectors and the positions get converted into x,y,z,a, in the post.
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