#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-05-17

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[00:00:09] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=rapidsyn&_lncat=0&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=2&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1&_nkw=23bls&_sacat=0
[00:00:23] <Valen> i cant seem to find anything less than a like $500
[00:01:00] <andypugh> search for Rapidsyn. I am sure a lot of those are not actually steppers at all. Too many wires.
[00:01:18] <Tom_itx> that page says classic ladder has modbus builtin
[00:01:25] <Tom_itx> not that it would help you
[00:02:12] <GammaX-Shop|2> yeah im trying to stray from classic ladder
[00:02:25] <Tom_itx> is it a pita?
[00:02:31] <Tom_itx> i've never tried it yet
[00:04:17] <GammaX-Shop|2> not sure to be honest..
[00:04:39] <GammaX-Shop|2> I already got a driver... just need to get linuxcnc to link the pins to the serial port...
[00:06:09] <GammaX-Shop|2> the drivers installed actually
[00:10:22] <Valen> trying to spec out the motors for out gantry mill/router thing
[00:10:46] <Valen> I'm thinking a size 23 servo is going to be about the same ballpark as a size 34 stepper?
[00:10:55] <Valen> with some additional gearing
[00:11:13] <Valen> looking at the torque vs speed curves on the steppers
[00:11:19] <Valen> thaughts?
[00:12:04] <GammaX-Shop|2> how big of a machine?
[00:12:17] <Valen> 600x1200 work area
[00:12:24] <andypugh> GammaX-Shop|2: If you look here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/drivers/VFS11.html
[00:12:27] <Valen> we want good acceleration mainly
[00:12:56] <andypugh> That modbus driver just connects _itself_ to the serial port, or to a TCP port.
[00:13:30] <andypugh> I suspect that the same is true of gs2_vfd and wj200_vfd
[00:13:39] <GammaX-Shop|2> I agree
[00:14:29] <GammaX-Shop|2> the comp file is already installed... just need to basicly connect it to a serial port..
[00:14:34] <andypugh> The HAL example on that page is very brief, so it looks like there is not a lot to it, when done that way.
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[00:16:38] <Valen> tossing up between NEMA 34 906 oz-inSteppper Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $994.26 and NEMA 23 Servo Motors 4 Axis CNC Kit: $1180.84 ( 350 oz-in Peak 60V/20A)
[00:16:47] <andypugh> So you "just" need to do the hard part, that none of us have a clue about?
[00:16:47] <Valen> from http://www.kelinginc.net
[00:17:07] <GammaX-Shop|2> lol
[00:17:46] <andypugh> Why not comp --install that WJ200 driver, and see if it just happens to work?
[00:19:19] <GammaX-Shop|2> if it doesnt will it jack my shit up?
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[00:20:05] <andypugh> I am not sure what you are asking.
[00:20:43] <Valen> it may insult your mother
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[00:32:56] <GammaX-Shop|2> ok i gtg.... ill work on this next week. tlak to you guys soon. thanks a lot andypugh!
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[00:34:47] <generic_nick> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8746177688_c97d67dacc_c.jpg
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[00:39:12] <Valen> so what do you think of my thinking? is a servo worth ~2x a stepper?
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[00:46:45] <eric_unterhause1> at least 2x
[00:47:13] <Valen> that makes me feel better ;->
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[01:17:50] <PetefromTn> Evening gentlemen....
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[01:21:19] <PetefromTn> Perhaps not.
[01:22:08] <eric_unterhause1> irc etiquette says greetings from 112 people is not likely to be well received
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[01:27:23] <Valen> perhaps he just loves talking to strangers
[01:27:43] <PetefromTn> This thing on?
[01:27:51] <Valen> nope
[01:27:56] <PetefromTn> Hehe
[01:28:18] <eric_unterhause1> I like talking to strangers, but I don't expect acknowledgement unless I say something interesting
[01:28:26] <PetefromTn> Evening fellas
[01:28:51] <Valen> I would expect at least one femininist to rip his nuts off in a group this size
[01:29:09] <PetefromTn> Okay evening ladies
[01:29:35] <Valen> now you sound like an army person insulting his troops best case, or a troll worst case ;-P
[01:29:39] <eric_unterhause1> this is such a sausage-fest
[01:30:03] <eric_unterhause1> not sure I'm aware of any female involvement
[01:30:11] <Valen> my wife is involved
[01:30:22] <Valen> in that she likes the things i make on the mill for her....
[01:30:22] <eric_unterhause1> exception that proves the rule
[01:30:29] <eric_unterhause1> I've also met Jon Elson's wife
[01:30:55] * Tom_itx sits down to a real meet n greet
[01:31:15] <Valen> isnt there some big emc get together going on atm?
[01:31:23] <Tom_itx> ?
[01:31:26] <Tom_itx> not yet
[01:31:31] <Tom_itx> that i'm aware of
[01:31:48] <Tom_itx> are you talkin about the fest?
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[01:32:02] <Valen> probably
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[01:32:29] <Tom_itx> probably good his connection isn't that stable
[01:32:38] <Tom_itx> that's next month
[01:32:46] <gammax-Laptop1> I realy wish I could hit a button and my vfd just work
[01:32:49] <eric_unterhause1> no, he just says hi that many more times
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[01:33:18] <eric_unterhause1> I have to plug mine in and it just works
[01:33:41] <gammax-Laptop1> I envy you
[01:34:04] <eric_unterhause1> it had been smashed so I got a good deal (?)
[01:34:07] <Valen> does it have buttons on the front you can use?
[01:34:13] <Valen> ie make sure its working?
[01:34:26] <Valen> also have you tried just talking serial to it outside EMC
[01:34:28] <eric_unterhause1> it has a plug-in 'programmer'
[01:34:28] <Tom_itx> gammax-Laptop1, are you just trying to get it to estop if it faults?
[01:34:35] <Tom_itx> or get the whole thing working
[01:34:58] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1: what brand vfd?
[01:34:58] <PetefromTn> Trying to chat on my smartphone sitting out back by the fire pit but I keep getting bumped offline.
[01:35:17] <eric_unterhause1> PetefromTn we noticed
[01:35:36] <eric_unterhause1> it's a conspiracy
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[01:35:40] <Tom_itx> not so smart ehh?
[01:36:05] <Valen> rofl
[01:36:43] <Tom_itx> are those chinese vfd's hard to get hooked up and working?
[01:36:51] <eric_unterhause1> too many "screwed up thing" convos going on at once
[01:36:57] <Valen> dunno about modbus connection
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[01:37:02] <Tom_itx> me either
[01:37:06] <Valen> but easy to plug in and drive from the buttons on the front
[01:37:13] <eric_unterhause1> you would think a chinese vfd would be simplicity itself
[01:37:19] <Valen> modbus connection involves soldering an IC onto it ;->
[01:37:37] <Tom_itx> hmm?
[01:37:45] <Tom_itx> onto what?
[01:37:52] <gammax-Laptop1> Its a hitcachi sj200
[01:37:55] <eric_unterhause1> da innards
[01:38:03] <Valen> at least the one we got, the rs485 converter isn't on the PCB in the VFD
[01:38:04] <Tom_itx> is that so hard?
[01:38:26] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1: that's yer problem, you should have gotten a hitachi sj200
[01:38:32] <Valen> not too bad, SO8
[01:38:45] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, I hate u lol
[01:39:13] <gammax-Laptop1> anybody use large 1" endmills?
[01:39:19] <Tom_itx> not anymore
[01:39:29] <Tom_itx> and at the time, that wasn't large
[01:39:29] <gammax-Laptop1> I have some I want to barter with
[01:39:32] <eric_unterhause1> been a while since I used anything that big
[01:39:54] <Tom_itx> nice big roughing em
[01:39:56] <gammax-Laptop1> all carbide...
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[01:40:32] <gammax-Laptop1> will trade for some mesa products!
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[01:42:35] <r00t4rd3d> no one wants your burn up bits
[01:42:58] <Tom_itx> carbide likes to run hot
[01:43:43] <gammax-Laptop1> you guys dont use carbide?
[01:44:00] <r00t4rd3d> i do
[01:44:03] <Tom_itx> sure i do
[01:44:14] <Tom_itx> i don't need anything that big anymore
[01:44:34] <r00t4rd3d> wish i had a machine that could run a 1" bit
[01:44:52] <Tom_itx> cat40 50 will pretty well
[01:44:57] <Valen> use a 1/4 mill, and go 4x as fast
[01:45:30] <Tom_itx> they don't 'sing' as loud as the small ones
[01:45:48] <Tom_itx> they just shake the building
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[01:47:22] <gammax-Laptop1> lol
[01:47:52] <Tom_itx> why are you gettin rid of em?
[01:48:02] <gammax-Laptop1> no need for em
[01:48:07] <gammax-Laptop1> cant put them in my machine
[01:48:45] <Tom_itx> much bigger than that and you start using insert cutters
[01:48:48] <Tom_itx> not practical
[01:49:09] <PetefromTn> what
[01:49:14] <PetefromTn> are
[01:49:16] <PetefromTn> we
[01:49:18] <PetefromTn> talking
[01:49:20] <PetefromTn> about
[01:49:23] <PetefromTn> LOL
[01:49:30] <gammax-Laptop1> SHUT
[01:49:32] <gammax-Laptop1> YOUR
[01:49:33] <gammax-Laptop1> FACE
[01:49:40] <PetefromTn> EAT
[01:49:43] <PetefromTn> MY
[01:49:45] <PetefromTn> SHORTS
[01:49:46] <gammax-Laptop1> lol
[01:50:01] <gammax-Laptop1> thought shorts was gonna be replaced with D*ck
[01:50:22] <PetefromTn> hey I thought this was a gentlemans forum..
[01:50:29] <Valen> yah i wouldn't use solid carbide for much more than half inch
[01:50:54] <r00t4rd3d> i mostly use 1/8 ones
[01:50:56] <Valen> too expensive when you drive them through a hold down screw instead of the MDF
[01:50:58] <Tom_itx> we had some 3" carbide insert drills
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[01:52:03] <Tom_itx> r00t4rd3d what are you paying for your .125 cutters?
[01:52:22] <Tom_itx> i'm gettin a couple ballnose local but he was out of stock
[01:52:33] <gammax-Laptop1> where do you guys buy your carbide bits from?
[01:52:43] <r00t4rd3d> 10 bucks
[01:52:46] <Tom_itx> sandvik or valenite
[01:52:55] <PetefromTn> I mostly get mine from Frank Mari.
[01:52:56] <gammax-Laptop1> I only have like 2 ball mills
[01:53:02] <Tom_itx> r00t4rd3d for 1/8 ball?
[01:53:05] <gammax-Laptop1> and like 80-90 3 fluters...
[01:53:11] <r00t4rd3d> nah endmill
[01:53:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbide-Router-Bit-3-20mm-125-1-8-Shanks-NEW-Solid-Carbide-CNC-PCB-/160816395593?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2571677549
[01:53:17] <r00t4rd3d> them things
[01:53:36] <Tom_itx> pcb router bits?
[01:53:53] <r00t4rd3d> i cut oak with them
[01:54:11] <Tom_itx> are those 4 flute?
[01:54:34] <Tom_itx> 5
[01:54:38] <Tom_itx> it looks like
[01:54:38] <r00t4rd3d> Great for PC Boards, Plastics, Wood, Soft Metals, etc.
[01:54:47] <Tom_itx> those are pcb router bits
[01:55:04] <r00t4rd3d> they cut hardwood great
[01:55:13] <r00t4rd3d> ive purpleheart with them also
[01:55:17] <r00t4rd3d> cut^
[01:55:57] <r00t4rd3d> and that stuff is super hardwood
[01:56:04] <gammax-Laptop1> I cut some pine 2x4's with my 3/4 3 flute carbde bit great the other day!
[01:56:15] <Tom_itx> i think local was about $7 for regular ones
[01:56:21] <r00t4rd3d> i dont mess with that cheap stuff
[01:56:29] <r00t4rd3d> pine
[01:56:53] <gammax-Laptop1> my first test cut
[01:57:10] <r00t4rd3d> well it should have been in mahogany
[01:58:02] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1 u sure that your vfd is actually listening?
[01:58:20] <eric_unterhause1> some industrial stuff requires external power
[01:58:20] <r00t4rd3d> he called it names and it called them right back
[01:58:23] <Valen> http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/photos-you-really-need-to-look-at-to-understand is pretty funny
[01:58:42] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, listening on modbus?
[02:02:02] <eric_unterhause1> I assume that's what you are trying to do
[02:02:12] <eric_unterhause1> pushadabutton works, right?
[02:04:01] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, I need to get linuxcnc to recognize the halpins to work over rs485
[02:04:34] <eric_unterhause1> do you have alternate ways to talk to it that work?
[02:04:46] <gammax-Laptop1> the control board attached to it
[02:06:49] <eric_unterhause1> I was wondering about alternative programs
[02:07:17] <eric_unterhause1> I find it really hard to write software that talks over serial without seeing _something_ coming over the lines beforehand
[02:07:44] <gammax-Laptop1> not tracking u siorry lol
[02:09:54] <eric_unterhause1> can you try libmodbus or similar to talk to it on vanilla linux?
[02:10:13] <gammax-Laptop1> i already have libmodbus isntalled on my current build
[02:10:37] <eric_unterhause1> I'm typing really slowly hoping you can figure out my question
[02:10:45] <eric_unterhause1> did libmodbus talk to it?
[02:11:04] <Tom_itx> Valen, that wasn't makerfair you were thinking of was it?
[02:11:11] <gammax-Laptop1> nothing has talked to it... because it doesnt know how to
[02:11:15] <Tom_itx> that may be this week
[02:11:18] <gammax-Laptop1> its not linked via serial yet
[02:11:19] <Valen> Tom_itx: no idea
[02:11:22] <eric_unterhause1> HIW
[02:11:22] <Valen> doesn't matter
[02:11:35] <eric_unterhause1> hardware something something
[02:11:38] <Tom_itx> i just remembered rue was going to that
[02:12:28] <eric_unterhause1> gammax-Laptop1 I just think that talking to it on generic linux is probably hard enough, and will help you with hal module
[02:13:14] <gammax-Laptop1> eric_unterhause1, i think im gonna try mb2hal
[02:22:52] <RyanS> Valen do you have any pictures of a cnc machine you built from scratch?, Would love to see
[02:23:15] <Valen> not yet
[02:24:08] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_hm45.html is stuff we have used on our current mill
[02:27:28] <RyanS> hmm so the hm45 is not really that great?
[02:28:02] <Valen> i haven't heard anybody singing the praises of any chinese mill
[02:28:54] <PetefromTn> do any of you guys successfully link to these CNCzone items? I cannot get on there at all lately and I am not sure why.
[02:29:05] <RyanS> But surely for the cost they are somewhat capable ?
[02:29:15] <Tom_itx> works fine for me
[02:29:39] <PetefromTn> I could not even get on there from my Cellphone...
[02:30:44] <Valen> on ours one of the gibb screws wasnt even tapped all the way through
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[02:30:52] <Valen> you couldn't tighten the Z axis
[02:31:46] <Tom_itx> would a heater core be a big enough spindle cooler?
[02:32:09] <Valen> probably, though it depends on how hard you push it
[02:32:27] <RyanS> those machines are clones of a Taiwanese brand right?
[02:32:43] <Valen> the anti-backlash nuts from the factory just had a cut in the end of it, you crushed the nut with the screw
[02:32:53] <Valen> so it got harder to turn, it just didn't do anything about the backlash
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[02:33:25] <Valen> now I can tune the PID loop (with ballscrews) in well at one point in the table and it will oscillate at another spot
[02:33:46] <Valen> so yeah, I'm not too impressed
[02:35:07] <gammax-Laptop1> RyanS, I have a pm45cnc version and like it very much
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[02:36:30] <RyanS> so thos spindles use a VFD to control the RPM as opposed to a gearbox, does that sacrifice torque ?
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[02:36:54] <Valen> eh, somewhat
[02:37:02] <Valen> but you just use a smaller cutter at higher RPM
[02:37:10] <gammax-Laptop1> RyanS, the pm45cnc has a vfd with a gearbox, I will be selling belt drives here shortly
[02:38:03] <RyanS> ok, it seems like all the machining centres of these days have direct drive spindles?
[02:38:15] <Valen> the bigger ones do at least
[02:39:39] <RyanS> I guess if you have a 20kw motor you don't even need to worry about torque too much
[02:41:23] <Valen> not too much ;->
[02:41:41] <Valen> higher speeds are easier to get higher powers
[02:43:30] <RyanS> Is it mainly to get high-speed or the more power means deeper cuts, larger tools et cetera .... A combination of all three I guess?
[02:44:26] <Valen> its the metal removal rate
[02:44:27] <Tom_itx> that depends on what the rest of the machine was designed for as well
[02:46:35] <toastydeath> RyanS, the torque on a 20kw spindle is actually pretty low
[02:47:04] <toastydeath> for direct drive
[02:47:28] <gammax-Laptop1> belt drive baby!
[02:47:47] <toastydeath> the whole idea is to use heat resistant tooling, use light cuts, and move very fast
[02:47:59] <RyanS> really? So those machines centres are more about speed than torque ?
[02:48:08] <toastydeath> cnc in general is now about speed vs torque
[02:48:16] <toastydeath> speed over torque, rather.
[02:48:21] <Tom_itx> it depends what you're buying them to cut
[02:48:26] <Valen> torque is hard, relativley speaking
[02:48:38] <Tom_itx> if you plan to cut alot of steel etc you need more torque
[02:48:41] <Valen> basically torque = amps, amps = heat and expensive electronics
[02:48:42] <toastydeath> machinists also are uncomfortable with high torque machines
[02:48:43] <ReadError> who here was the one that ordered PCBs from dorkbotpdx ?
[02:48:56] <ReadError> I remember it was a big wood machine
[02:49:00] <Tom_itx> ReadError, i have used them
[02:49:00] <toastydeath> there are lathes that will take a 1/8" chip, 5" depth of cut
[02:49:02] <Tom_itx> not lately
[02:49:11] <toastydeath> that's essentally producing sheet metal
[02:49:14] <Valen> but a 20Kw spindle will push a 100 fly cutter just fine still ;->
[02:49:32] <ReadError> Tom_itx: hows the quality?
[02:49:36] <toastydeath> if you put a big facemill on a 20kw spindle, you might stop it.
[02:49:49] <Tom_itx> ReadError, they were using a US MFG so pretty good
[02:49:50] <toastydeath> i've stopped a 10kw spindle with a 4" facemill
[02:50:09] <ReadError> oh did they switch to china?
[02:50:09] <Valen> of course you *can* but you can still take a decent cut with it
[02:50:21] <Tom_itx> i don't know, i haven't used them lately
[02:50:28] <RyanS> I suppose all the videos I have seen of CNC they are never hogging out huge amounts of metal
[02:50:30] <Tom_itx> did you need several or just one or two?
[02:50:41] <Valen> thing is you would be using carbide and running at 4X the speed you used to with HSS
[02:50:43] <toastydeath> sure, the only reason i brought it up is because most people have never actually put a machine to a heavy cut before
[02:50:49] <Tom_itx> i've been getting mine from capnkernel in #avr lately
[02:51:04] <ReadError> Tom_itx: ive used itead, they are cheap but the silkscreen is kinda crappy
[02:51:12] <Tom_itx> his are ok
[02:51:19] <ReadError> hes in the USA?
[02:51:22] <Tom_itx> no
[02:51:24] <Tom_itx> china
[02:51:31] <Tom_itx> he commutes from australia
[02:51:49] <Tom_itx> join #hackvana and ask him
[02:51:58] <ReadError> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Apr%2026%2C%209%2036%2041%20PM.jpg
[02:52:02] <ReadError> those are the last ones i got
[02:52:16] <Valen> the rest of our mill lags behind the spindle
[02:52:32] <Valen> the chinese spindle isn't that crash hot either
[02:52:44] <Valen> they put a matched pair of angular contact bearings in
[02:52:53] <Valen> thing is they were orientated the same way
[02:53:02] <ReadError> which I guess for like $9 for 10, isnt a bad deal
[02:53:10] <ReadError> i was just looking for something domestic
[02:53:11] <Tom_itx> no
[02:53:15] <Tom_itx> oh why?
[02:53:26] <ReadError> speed
[02:53:31] <Tom_itx> you're stuck with purple with them ya know
[02:53:35] <ReadError> yea
[02:53:48] <Valen> hackvana can do rapid turn
[02:53:54] <ReadError> i guess itead isnt that slow, 10 days from order to arrival with UPS
[02:54:04] <Valen> I think it took like 8 days or so with express shipping
[02:54:07] <ReadError> but the soldermask is kinda crap
[02:54:16] <Valen> 5 days for pcb fab 2-3 for shipping
[02:54:22] <Tom_itx> yeah i've been happy with hackvana
[02:54:24] <Valen> to australia
[02:54:31] <Tom_itx> i didn't mind waiting
[02:54:42] <Tom_itx> so i just used the regular post
[02:54:48] <Valen> how long was it?
[02:55:16] <Tom_itx> i don't remember off hand
[02:55:27] <Tom_itx> probably 4 weeks
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[02:55:31] <Valen> also why wont my attiny wake up
[02:55:41] <Tom_itx> shake it harder
[02:55:45] <Valen> PCMSK1 |= (1 << PCINT8); //turn interrupts on for pin b0/pcint8
[02:55:45] <Valen> sleep_mode();
[02:55:50] <Valen> and its dead bro
[02:55:55] <Tom_itx> i haven't messed with sleep mode much
[02:55:58] * Valen growls at it
[02:56:10] * Valen threatens it with a bbq lighter
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[03:14:32] <RyanS> Which manufacturers I wonder make top quality linear actuators.. I've about five Linak ones fail within the last couple of years... Plastic junk
[03:15:29] <RyanS> I think wheelchair manufacturers use student engineers to design their products :p
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[03:22:45] <Valen> probably
[03:25:44] <RyanS> When you say 'we' and your machine build article. Are you building with a group of ppls?
[03:26:56] <L84Supper> vs what? The Queens we? :)
[03:28:23] <RyanS> In your article I should say
[03:28:51] <RyanS> thou?
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[03:33:18] <Valen> my father and myself
[03:33:24] <RyanS> ah
[03:35:07] <RyanS> My old man wants to buy a cheap milling machine I said don't waste your money, he thinks 1mm is pretty accurate tolerance :p
[03:35:29] <Valen> well in that case a cheap one will do ;->
[03:36:02] <RyanS> I don't think that's even the Woodwork tolerance
[03:38:49] <toastydeath> i think i can hit that with a hacksaw
[03:38:56] <toastydeath> and a steady eye
[03:40:06] <RyanS> do pedantic people make good machinists?
[03:40:24] <RyanS> I would probably make a good machinist
[03:40:46] <eric_unterhause1> pedantry probably a disqualification for anything
[03:41:38] <RyanS> Run that by me again
[03:41:55] <RyanS> metrology perhaps
[03:41:57] <eric_unterhause1> see what I mean?
[03:42:35] <RyanS> I don't, I just don't understand what you said :)
[03:43:11] <eric_unterhause1> I'm a part-time metrologist
[03:44:32] <RyanS> It certainly couldn't harm to be a little pedantic in that line of work?
[03:46:15] <eric_unterhause1> one of the meanings of pedantic is "meticulous," but that's not what most people think of when they hear the word
[03:48:51] <RyanS> In that case I guess a meticulous person would make a good machinist
[03:49:59] <Valen> depends on what you mean by "good" too
[03:50:13] <eric_unterhause1> wouldn't know, never met a meticulous machinist
[03:50:30] <Valen> if you are a jobbing shop, if its in the spec its good, theres no point getting a mirror finish on the boat anchor points
[03:51:14] <RyanS> An aerospace parts manufacturer :)
[03:51:20] <Valen> again
[03:51:23] <Valen> meet the spec
[03:51:47] <Valen> knowing what matters is important
[03:51:59] <eric_unterhause1> I'd like to meet a machinist that could explain gdt&e to me
[03:52:28] <Valen> ?
[03:52:50] <Valen> meticulous is something I'd want in a welder
[03:53:02] <eric_unterhause1> geometric dimensioning tolerancing and something that starts with an e
[03:53:07] <Valen> lol
[03:53:25] <eric_unterhause1> it's a rational way of doing tolerancing
[03:53:51] <eric_unterhause1> probably need a good draftsman instead
[03:54:17] <eric_unterhause1> the engineers that try to explain it are too pedantic
[03:55:16] <RyanS> Is that true that MIG welding is easier than stick welding .. 'Idiot proof' some claim?
[03:55:31] <eric_unterhause1> any idiot can lay a good bead with MIG
[03:55:46] <eric_unterhause1> and then the idiot's bead breaks later
[03:56:21] <eric_unterhause1> if there is an idiot involved, I definitely prefer stick
[03:56:30] <eric_unterhause1> that way I know not to get out of the boat
[03:57:13] <RyanS> Can you actually weld stainless somewhat okay with a stick welder?
[03:57:22] <eric_unterhause1> I don't think you can
[03:57:28] <eric_unterhause1> but I'm not sure
[03:57:35] <Valen> if you don't do a lot of welding get a TIG
[03:57:51] <Valen> also if you weld lots of different things
[03:58:05] <eric_unterhause1> I want a TIG
[03:58:05] <Valen> mig is good for production
[03:58:26] <RyanS> tig requires the most skill though?
[03:58:28] <eric_unterhause1> I do gas welding, and if I had bigger tanks/torch I would probably be happy with that for household stuff
[03:59:01] <eric_unterhause1> RyanS, what are you making?
[04:00:53] <r00t4rd3d> car battery, jumper cables and some sticks
[04:00:59] <Valen> I'd say tig needs less skill to get a better end result as you can try again ;->
[04:01:17] <Valen> IE if the amps are a bit low you can just sit there a bit longer etc
[04:01:44] <Valen> you don't need to faf about with getting all the settings sorted
[04:02:00] <RyanS> . Actually I had stainless steel tube fittings tigged/.... Building a still.. I went overboard with the design and it still isn't finished
[04:02:31] <ReadError> apparently to be a good machinist you need to stop eating
[04:02:32] <RyanS> Problems with the heating element controller
[04:02:33] <ReadError> seen it in a movie
[04:03:43] <RyanS> lose your thumb and then have to have your big toe grafted in its place
[04:05:58] <eric_unterhause1> famous metrologist blew his thumb off when he was a kid and they spliced his big toe in its place
[04:06:38] <eric_unterhause1> of course, famous metrologist is probably an impossible thing
[04:07:11] <RyanS> Got to be careful how you wield those deadly calipers
[04:07:29] <RyanS> Sorry that's a handyman I meant micrometrer
[04:12:05] <RyanS> awesome .. Robot tig welding http://vimeo.com/59907378
[04:12:23] <RyanS> Beware of the lame music
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[04:14:43] <RootB> hello linux cnca nyone here with diptracer experience?
[04:14:51] <eric_unterhause1> first robot welder I saw was 20+ years ago. They could never convince the humans to weld the seam in the right place
[04:16:22] <RyanS> How on earth do they program welding robots.
[04:16:37] <eric_unterhause1> teaching pendants?
[04:16:45] <eric_unterhause1> I had a welding robot
[04:16:56] <eric_unterhause1> but I didn't have enough power to start it up
[04:17:23] <RyanS> yeh but you essentially drive the robot manually to teach it
[04:17:28] <eric_unterhause1> yes
[04:17:39] <eric_unterhause1> you can program it other ways
[04:18:10] <RyanS> They surely must use cam software these days
[04:18:15] <eric_unterhause1> I'm sure
[04:19:03] <RyanS> I guess in that case it's no different to 5 axis milling
[04:19:21] <eric_unterhause1> striking an arc is probably somewhat specialized
[04:19:39] <eric_unterhause1> I'm trying to figure out how to do edm right now
[04:20:07] <Valen> HV arc starter, strike ALL THE ARCS
[04:20:16] <RyanS> They don't need to strike an arc with mig or tig
[04:20:46] <eric_unterhause1> they don't need to scratch start the arc
[04:21:27] <Valen> scratch starting tig is bad, you contaminate the electrode by default
[04:21:46] <Valen> mig it doesn't matter if you contact the job by definition ;->
[04:22:55] <eric_unterhause1> I would guess there is some arc starting magic for welding, but I don't know for sure
[04:23:04] <eric_unterhause1> welding robots I mean
[04:23:08] <Valen> yeah, its called a high voltage starter
[04:23:20] <Valen> same thing regular tig torches (that don't suck) have
[04:23:31] <RyanS> cool you can get an automatice rod feeder for human tig
[04:23:44] <Valen> good ones have a high frequency HV start that runs full time
[04:23:47] <RyanS> That's cheating
[04:23:49] <Valen> makes the arc smoother
[04:24:41] <RyanS> You can't actually get argon in Australia without renting the gas bottles at huge cost?
[04:25:01] <Valen> there is one outfit that you can *buy* the bottle off
[04:25:06] <Valen> then swap them over as usual
[04:25:06] <eric_unterhause1> if I rented the bottles in austrailia, it would be a huge cost
[04:25:08] <Valen> no rental
[04:25:26] <Valen> we were without argon for ages because of that
[04:25:35] <Valen> now we have an argon tank, lasts us ages
[04:26:06] <eric_unterhause1> my local shop is really weird about selling bottles, but I've never needed argon
[04:26:10] <RyanS> What is the deal.. they just have a monopoly so they force you to rent just because they can?
[04:26:16] <Valen> basically
[04:26:29] <Valen> they will tell you all sorts of BS about it being illegal
[04:26:32] <eric_unterhause1> I asked if I could rent oxy/acetylene, "no"
[04:26:49] <eric_unterhause1> so I bought
[04:28:32] <RyanS> I wonder if those LPG torches are any good .. Then you can use a barbecue bottle .... Model steam engine people use them
[04:28:47] <eric_unterhause1> lpg/air?
[04:29:08] <eric_unterhause1> I have considered getting lpg with an oxygen concentrator, that's what the glassblowing people use
[04:29:32] <eric_unterhause1> only problem is you have to kill someone's granny to get the concentrator
[04:29:48] <RyanS> So the same trap with renting oxygen?
[04:30:07] <eric_unterhause1> not in the U.S., you can buy the concentrators for around $300 or so
[04:30:17] <RyanS> Just buy one from a vet supplier
[04:30:40] <eric_unterhause1> there is a steady supply from the medical market
[04:30:52] <eric_unterhause1> used ones can't be used for humans, apparently
[04:31:43] <RyanS> I use a ventilator... I should tell them that I want oxygen too ,just because,
[04:32:31] <Valen> you should get liquid O2, then make rockets
[04:34:00] <RyanS> I wonder if you could tig weld copper..... It's similar to brazing
[04:35:09] <eric_unterhause1> I know there is some kind of bronze filler for tig, not sure about copper
[04:35:33] <eric_unterhause1> typically use silver for that I think
[04:37:03] <RyanS> managed to get a soft soldering working pretty good with mapp
[04:37:29] <RyanS> However I read that you don't need flux for silver soldiering.... Maybe that's why it's not working
[04:37:54] <Valen> flux all the things
[04:38:43] <RyanS> For brazing you need a flux whic doesn't boil off until really high temperature?
[04:38:57] <RyanS> The hardware shop only has crappy flux
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[04:56:00] <Connor> jdh: You around ?
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[06:49:10] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:52:18] <RyanS> is Haas, relatively speaking a cheap ass brand?
[07:59:45] <Valen> not as far as I'm aware?
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[09:15:21] <Tom_itx> RyanS, imo they are middle of the road
[09:16:52] <Tom_itx> certainly not the best or worst
[09:17:24] <toastydeath> i'd call them low end
[09:17:42] <Tom_itx> i would too but i was giving them the benefit of the doubt
[09:17:46] <toastydeath> but a low end vmc/hmc is more than enough for most purposes
[09:17:51] <toastydeath> haha
[09:18:37] <Tom_itx> of the ones i have personal experience with i'd put mori seki at the top
[09:18:47] <toastydeath> mori seiki is definitely baller
[09:19:23] <toastydeath> i'd buy a well-used Mori over a haas
[09:19:44] <Tom_itx> and okuma but they probably aren't quite as rugged as a mori
[09:21:10] <Tom_itx> we ran most of our steel jobs on a tree
[09:21:18] <Tom_itx> as that shop didn't own any mori's
[09:21:54] <toastydeath> one of the more the damning things for Hass is their control
[09:21:59] <toastydeath> it's shit
[09:22:12] <Tom_itx> we have a fix for that
[09:22:18] <toastydeath> ?
[09:22:21] <toastydeath> replace it?
[09:22:29] <Tom_itx> u bet :)
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[11:50:48] <cncbasher> pcw ?
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[12:53:57] <jthornton> is this too much? http://www.gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/hal/or2.html
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[12:57:24] <archivist> the second diagram could confuse a logic noob
[12:57:59] <archivist> should still be left to right
[12:59:05] <archivist> and it has an input connected to an input, even though we really know that the inputs are the output of something
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[13:04:02] <archivist> as it is a tutorial, a truth table, and tell them it can be used as a negative logic AND
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[13:12:59] <jthornton> should I use real world pins like the parallel port etc?
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[13:37:19] <alex_joni> jthornton: http://imagebin.org/257979
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[13:45:23] <Loetmichel> *hrrrmpf*... 5 minutes out of the workshop: workpieve gets loose, and cut to pieces, then breaks the mill bit... my luck today is unbelieveable... agaion!
[13:45:27] <Loetmichel> -o
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[13:47:24] <Loetmichel> ... at least i got the shipment with the 25 2mm mill bits today... so i have no worries (that was the last 2mm bit of the old stock)
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[13:58:49] <Valen> Loetmichel: good ones?
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[14:03:29] <Loetmichel> tiuungsten carbide 1/8"
[14:03:46] <Loetmichel> 2 fute with polished flutes for aluminium
[14:03:51] <Loetmichel> flute
[14:04:49] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: what is the green block?
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[14:11:38] <archivist> JT-Shop, the pins
[14:11:51] <archivist> or connections
[14:12:22] <JT-Shop> ok I could not read what was in the green blocks
[14:12:49] <archivist> ew, add glasses
[14:13:46] <JT-Shop> two pair?
[14:14:25] <archivist> thats cheating, I sometimes do :)
[14:15:03] <archivist> but one pair is sufficient on this monitor
[14:15:06] <alex_joni> JT-Shop: t'was just a suggestion
[14:15:13] <alex_joni> somehow to note that those are pins
[14:15:28] <alex_joni> and look different than the component, and the signals themselves
[14:16:04] * archivist agrees, more obvious
[14:19:16] <JT-Shop> alex_joni: thanks
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[14:36:26] <Tecan> http://www.longevity-inc.com/forum/attachments/cnc-machines-submerged-arc-automated-systems-other-cutting-methods/6526d1355350282-starting-another-cnc-table-x-chain-drive-system-2-.jpg
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[14:47:02] <skunkworks> yay - one external device for mach supports rigid tapping... http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,24610.0.html
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[16:22:29] <generic_nick> why are you guys always spying on the mach forum? lol
[16:23:13] <archivist> for giggles I think
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[16:26:01] <generic_nick> has anyone found a screen protector for touchscreen monitors that allows you to not have perfectly dry hands to use?
[16:26:27] <generic_nick> if a drop of coolant splashes on the monitor, it can push a button
[16:26:35] <generic_nick> can and has
[16:27:01] <JT-Shop> what kind of touch technology is it?
[16:29:12] <generic_nick> not sure, it's an elo touchscreen. glass screen.
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[16:29:23] <generic_nick> i can try and find that info
[16:31:26] <L84Supper> http://www.elotouch.com/Products/Touchscreens/ they make touchscreens with several different technologies
[16:31:34] <roycroft> most of the elo touchscreens are capacitive
[16:32:30] <roycroft> their website has pretty good documentation on even their older models, so you should be able to determine what type it is pretty easily
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[16:33:10] <roycroft> that coolant splashes activate it indicates it's not resistive
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[16:33:46] <L84Supper> go back to good old 5-wire touch
[16:33:56] <L84Supper> that Elo was famous for
[16:33:59] <roycroft> if it's capacitive (whichis likely), i'd suggest doing two things:
[16:34:32] <roycroft> 1. keeping the screen far enough away that coolant won't splash on it (or shielding the coolant spray path appropriately)
[16:35:09] <roycroft> 2. get a conductive styles such as are used on capacitive screen cell phones/tablets, so you don't have to worry about cleaning/drying your hands before using it
[16:35:30] <IchGuckLive> yes screan and PC is far away best to stay that way and a pendant with lots of funktions
[16:35:31] <generic_nick> i found the part number, but even that part number has a ton of different types
[16:35:53] <L84Supper> lets try it anyway
[16:36:23] <IchGuckLive> i do it that way setting XY with one button driving away from it by manual and then go back by button so i see with no pc in view if im at Zero
[16:36:50] <IchGuckLive> then start G-code by button
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[16:38:50] <generic_nick> so a screen protector probably wont help, huh?
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[16:39:31] <IchGuckLive> you can even go without screen on loading axis with only one filename
[16:39:37] <roycroft> if the screen is capacitive it would completely disable it
[16:39:59] <roycroft> unless you managed to find a conductive screen protector
[16:40:14] <IchGuckLive> what mashine is it
[16:40:15] <roycroft> which i don't think exists, but if it did it would do nothing to solve the problem
[16:40:56] <generic_nick> it works with a plastic bag over my finger
[16:41:06] <L84Supper> make everything double tap
[16:41:14] <roycroft> interesting
[16:41:30] <generic_nick> my old htc evo 3d had the same issue...
[16:41:33] <roycroft> but coolant spray causes a touch event?
[16:41:39] <generic_nick> yes
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[16:42:00] <roycroft> that makes no sense to me
[16:42:02] <IchGuckLive> if that hapens c is to near to the mashine anyway
[16:42:09] <roycroft> are you trying to make my brain hurt on a friday?
[16:42:21] <roycroft> if so, you're not a very nice person
[16:42:28] <generic_nick> it's an open machine IchGuckLive, coolant gets in my underwear.
[16:42:38] <IchGuckLive> today i plamad a 10mm sheet with low water level and the hell of a fire show break throu
[16:43:07] <IchGuckLive> the pc is 15feet away frothe mashines in a different room
[16:43:34] <roycroft> i might suggest that your bigger problem is not containing the coolant
[16:43:38] <IchGuckLive> generic_nick: get watertight or move to california where you can mill nacked
[16:43:49] <roycroft> i'm sure it's not good for your underwear
[16:43:50] <generic_nick> i live in socal
[16:44:00] <generic_nick> lol roycroft
[16:44:11] * roycroft would not want to mill naked
[16:44:27] <roycroft> those hot metal bits are bad enough when they burn my neck
[16:44:31] <generic_nick> it's already got a box around the table, but it can only be so hgh
[16:44:34] <roycroft> i don't want them anywhere near my naughty bits
[16:44:37] <IchGuckLive> south of california is Mexico !
[16:45:41] <generic_nick> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8746177688_c97d67dacc_c.jpg
[16:45:45] <IchGuckLive> Today he last fighter sqadron lefet the Airbase here in germany so it may be quiet in the future
[16:46:38] <IchGuckLive> ah is see
[16:46:47] <roycroft> put a plexiglass plate to the mill side of the touchscreen
[16:46:50] <IchGuckLive> generic_nick: so why not a office to the back
[16:47:04] <IchGuckLive> where the tool grinder is
[16:47:22] <IchGuckLive> overgead cable tbe
[16:47:36] <IchGuckLive> overhead
[16:47:47] <IchGuckLive> what BOB is used Mesa
[16:47:50] <generic_nick> having the control not near the machine is rather unsafe
[16:48:00] <roycroft> it seems he wants to continue to use the touchscreen, ichgucklive
[16:48:16] <roycroft> telling him to ditch it for a pendant is counterproductive
[16:48:21] <generic_nick> roycroft: i havent tried milling a lot with this control, i just made it. but it is the same monitor i had on it before
[16:48:29] <IchGuckLive> ah ok then a sqare box around the control
[16:48:57] <roycroft> i think a sheet of plexiglass would work just fine
[16:49:01] <generic_nick> before, the monitor was back more, and on the right side of the mill, where most of the mess goes
[16:49:29] <roycroft> just attach it to the left side of the screen
[16:49:33] <generic_nick> roycroft: coolant on the hands is an issue, when running production it's hard to constantly eep your hands dry.
[16:49:43] <roycroft> when standing at the mill you'll still be able to see the screen
[16:49:51] <roycroft> that's why i suggested a stylus, generic_nick
[16:50:02] <roycroft> just get a stylus, attach it to a string and tie it to the monitor
[16:50:05] <generic_nick> but i have more physical buttons now, so touching the screen should be kept to a minimum
[16:50:23] <roycroft> you can easily grab it when you need with no worries about getting the screen dirty
[16:50:37] <roycroft> you could even make a stylus holder on your sheet of plexiglass
[16:50:51] <generic_nick> yea
[16:51:06] <generic_nick> ill check it out, thanks.
[16:51:17] <IchGuckLive> whatever it is a gread work on getting the shop setup with linuxcnc
[16:51:26] <generic_nick> im going to try running it for a while first, to see if it's an issue with the new control pannel location
[16:52:28] <generic_nick> i was just curious if someone knew of a screen protector that worked well
[16:52:49] <andypugh> The table on my mill swivels. It has graduations every few degrees. There is a single scribed line as a pointer.
[16:53:20] <andypugh> It seems to me that I should be able to make a vernier pointer for it, to measure to smaller subdivisions of a degree.
[16:53:34] <andypugh> Perhaps laser engraving is the way to go?
[16:53:40] <generic_nick> put an encoder on it:)
[16:54:05] <andypugh> I have thought about putting a resolver on it, but I am not clear how.
[16:54:09] <generic_nick> then you can use offset so you dont even have to indicate it
[16:55:24] <roycroft> a vernier pointer is way more old school, and therefore fun, than using an encoder
[16:55:28] <generic_nick> hmm does offset work for angular stuff too? so if my 4th axis is .05 degrees off, can i use offset so it corrects x and y to get it closer?
[16:55:51] <generic_nick> roycroft: i guess that depends if you machine for a living or not lol
[16:56:32] <andypugh> You can add angles as tool offsets. I don't know what the effect is.
[16:56:34] <generic_nick> i guess in order for offset to work, it would need to know the radius of the workpiece
[16:56:34] <roycroft> i would argue that a skilled machinst could read a vernier as fast as an encoder readout
[16:56:58] <generic_nick> not tool offsets. i meant the offset thingie in hal
[16:57:03] <roycroft> i don't machine for a living, though
[16:58:17] <generic_nick> i do
[16:58:35] <andypugh> I have a spare resolver. The table pivots on a plate. I could bore a hole in the table, and read the angle directly with the resolver. Which is accurate to about half a minute of arc. Or I could put a thin gear on top of the pivot, and measure even more accurately than that.
[16:58:39] <generic_nick> i havent used a vernier in 16 years, since trade school
[16:59:22] <andypugh> I think that keeping the reolver for a possible 5th-axis makes more sense. The vernier is only for setting up the angle when hobbing.
[17:00:03] <archivist> I must take pictures of my "digital" vernier 48" resolution 1/4"
[17:01:42] <archivist> bar has holes at 1" and the slider has 4 holes and a peg on a chain
[17:01:49] <generic_nick> andypugh: cant you just build an encoder for a few $$?
[17:02:18] <archivist> renishaw sell stick on encoder stuff
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[17:04:03] <andypugh> This isn't for an axis, though. This is loosen nuts, adjust, lock up again.
[17:04:19] <andypugh> And anyway, working out the geometry seems like fun :-)
[17:15:16] <IchGuckLive> work is always fun !
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[17:31:28] <IchGuckLive> hi pete
[17:31:35] <PetefromTn> Hi Ich!
[17:35:29] <DJ9DJ> hi guys
[17:36:44] <IchGuckLive> long weekend ahead
[17:38:34] <roycroft> you celebrate victoria day?
[17:39:02] <IchGuckLive> victoryday is the 8.5
[17:39:15] <IchGuckLive> 8th of mai
[17:39:15] <roycroft> it's monday next in canada
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[17:42:29] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: whitsun
[17:42:44] <IchGuckLive> this is the truanslation i got
[17:43:14] <DJ9DJ> pfingsten! :)
[17:43:19] <DJ9DJ> (in german)
[17:43:25] <IchGuckLive> B)
[17:43:49] <roycroft> whitsunday is a christian holiday
[17:44:04] <IchGuckLive> DJ9dj what is the weather at you hometown as boring rain as her
[17:44:22] <DJ9DJ> also somewhat rainy here
[17:44:33] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: we live in germany cristion hometown majoryti
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[17:44:45] <roycroft> do you live in southern germany?
[17:44:52] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:45:01] <roycroft> i believe whitsunday is more celebrated by roman catholics than protestants
[17:45:01] <IchGuckLive> oh more west
[17:45:05] <roycroft> so that would make sense
[17:45:44] <IchGuckLive> you may hered about ramstein airforce base its next to me
[17:46:18] <roycroft> yes
[17:46:44] <roycroft> i haven't been to germany in decades
[17:46:48] <IchGuckLive> dj9dj the berlin area got siunshine 15 hours today
[17:47:24] <roycroft> i traveled through the mosel and rhein valleys, kaiserslautern, and berlin
[17:47:43] <IchGuckLive> kaiserslautern B)
[17:47:49] <IchGuckLive> K-town
[17:48:12] <roycroft> i should like to visit bayern at some point
[17:48:19] <IchGuckLive> as 95% of the usa cand speak this name
[17:48:21] <roycroft> being a homebrewer, that's kind of my mecca
[17:48:24] <DJ9DJ> IchGuckLive, i am not worried if we get some more rain. we did not get very much, and the plants need water
[17:48:50] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: we got plenty 85l in this week
[17:48:52] <generic_nick> dangit, my toolchanger on the HNC decided to act up out of the bu\lue
[17:48:56] <generic_nick> blue*
[17:49:05] <DJ9DJ> wow. we got <10l in the last weeks
[17:49:21] <generic_nick> seems like an encoder issue
[17:50:04] <roycroft> so i was in your neck of the woods once
[17:50:10] <roycroft> but that was back in the '70s
[17:50:12] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: dont get to deep into there are more beer brewer in Hawai then now in Bavaria
[17:51:49] <roycroft> them that are left still use some of the old traditions, though
[17:52:26] <roycroft> the bayerische hefeweizen brewers, for example, mostly still do decotions and many of them still use open fermenters
[17:52:28] <IchGuckLive> traditions got business
[17:52:31] <roycroft> even the large ones
[17:52:47] <IchGuckLive> there are 5 bigones
[17:53:05] <roycroft> and there are still all the hops fields
[17:53:07] <IchGuckLive> that controll the market like miller in the usa
[17:53:38] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: yes the "wachhau" is full of hops
[17:55:18] <roycroft> the hallertau hops come from northeast of mnchen, and tettnanger south of stuttgart, by the austrian border
[17:55:29] <roycroft> those are the largest hop growing regions in germany
[17:55:53] <IchGuckLive> i think also in the world
[17:56:06] <roycroft> i'm not sure about that
[17:56:20] <roycroft> we grow a *lot* of hops here in the northwestern united states now
[17:56:31] <roycroft> primarily in two regions
[17:56:46] <roycroft> and the czechs grow saaz hops - another huge region
[17:57:01] <roycroft> but i don't know the exact output of each region, so i can't rank them
[17:58:03] <PetefromTn> I know I have recently built a few custom made Home brewing stands for customers in my area recently.
[17:58:15] <PetefromTn> Apparently there are quite a few home brewing enthusiasts.
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[17:58:25] <roycroft> there's good money in that, if you can do sanitary welding
[17:58:26] <PetefromTn> They were actually fun projects to do.
[17:58:32] <roycroft> there are, petefromtn
[17:58:45] <PetefromTn> meh there was not really any sanitary to it...
[17:58:46] <roycroft> and finally, this year, alabama and mississippi have legalized homebrewing
[17:58:57] <roycroft> now it's legal in all 50 states
[17:59:05] <roycroft> welding up a stand doesn't require sanitary welding
[17:59:13] <PetefromTn> It was just basically a steel stand with some burners on it and some racks and hangers for accessories and a pump.
[17:59:17] <roycroft> but welding fittings on brew kettles, mash tuns, etc. does
[17:59:43] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: USA 25%,Germany 35% of the world hops production
[17:59:44] <PetefromTn> Yeah I did not do any of that for these stands...
[17:59:54] <PetefromTn> One of them was stainless steel completely..
[18:00:05] <roycroft> that sounds expensive
[18:00:15] <roycroft> hopefully 304, not 316
[18:00:31] <PetefromTn> The others were all mild steel and had either been taken for powdercoating or painted by the customer.
[18:00:51] <roycroft> i'd like to build a stand and nickel plate it
[18:01:03] <PetefromTn> I would not mind making a few more stands like that it was kinda fun.
[18:01:17] <roycroft> you're not too far from mississippi, are you?
[18:01:26] <PetefromTn> Im in Maryville, Tn.
[18:01:32] * roycroft assumes the "tn" part of the nick means what he thinks it means
[18:01:36] <roycroft> yes
[18:01:54] <roycroft> well since homebrewing will be legal there on 1 july, there's probably a lot of business potential
[18:01:54] <PetefromTn> yeah Tennessee....for now anyways.. LOL
[18:01:59] <roycroft> if you're willing to travel a bit
[18:02:08] <PetefromTn> why would I have to travel?
[18:02:17] <roycroft> on the other hand, mississippi is a very poor state
[18:02:22] <roycroft> either you or the customer would
[18:02:29] <PetefromTn> why?
[18:02:42] <roycroft> you're not going to ship a brew stand, are you?
[18:02:46] <roycroft> shipping would cost as much as the stand
[18:02:48] <PetefromTn> why not?
[18:02:57] <PetefromTn> doubtful.
[18:03:03] <roycroft> well, not quite
[18:03:12] <roycroft> but it would be pretty expensive
[18:03:16] <PetefromTn> I could also make one that breaks down and could be screwed together on site.
[18:03:37] <roycroft> now that would be an interesting product
[18:03:39] <PetefromTn> It is just a simple stand with some mounts for a burner etc..
[18:03:40] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:03:46] <roycroft> ciaoer
[18:03:46] <PetefromTn> IchGuckLive cya man..
[18:03:54] <roycroft> i'm well aware of how they're constructed
[18:03:58] <roycroft> consider this
[18:04:09] <roycroft> many homebrewers would like a nice stand, but don't have room for it
[18:04:28] <roycroft> if you designed one that can break down that could both make shipping easier and help solve the storage problem
[18:04:29] <PetefromTn> agreed...
[18:05:05] <roycroft> perhaps not screw together, but having the legs hinged
[18:05:21] <roycroft> for quick setup and takedown
[18:05:26] <PetefromTn> most of the ones I made were solid tig welded steel or stainless stands. that were not all that large.
[18:06:26] <PetefromTn> The only issue is that it would have to be idiot proof because if you make a take down stand that someone puts large quantities of boiling fluid on top of it had better not come apart or collapse due to someone not assembling it carefully enough.
[18:06:37] <roycroft> right
[18:07:37] <roycroft> now lots of folks like a shelf on the bottom of their stand to hold the propane tank, and often to mount pumps
[18:07:48] <PetefromTn> I would certainly be willing to make some more custom stands and honestly I did not do too badly on profit with them as there is not a lot to them really.
[18:08:02] <PetefromTn> yeah all of the ones I made had a shelf.
[18:08:20] <roycroft> but for them that don't have the room, a stand designed as a rectangular box frame that holds the burners and legs that attach to it could be really useful
[18:08:29] <PetefromTn> the stainless one had a bunch of mounting holes for a butcher block shelf piece since the stainless sheet got pretty expensive.
[18:08:30] <roycroft> it could break down easily and be stored on end
[18:09:10] <roycroft> anyway, it's just an idea
[18:09:16] <PetefromTn> the first one I made was a longish rectangular square steel tube frame that was useful that way.
[18:09:34] <roycroft> i don't have a stand at this point
[18:09:39] <PetefromTn> Oh its not bad ideas at all... just gotta find buyers for them LOL.
[18:09:41] <roycroft> i'm still making 5 gallon batches
[18:10:01] <roycroft> well, it doesn't cost anything but a bit of time to generate a cad model and render it to put on a website
[18:10:14] <roycroft> if folks bite, you start building them
[18:10:22] <PetefromTn> That is what the guys make I think just five gallon batches but the dual burner helps them make them quicker i guess.
[18:10:28] <roycroft> aah
[18:10:44] <roycroft> most folks i know who get stands are making 10 gallon or 15 gallon batches
[18:11:04] <PetefromTn> This kind of thing is something I could see going somewhere if carefully done...
[18:11:18] <PetefromTn> there's lots of folks who love a good beer right!
[18:11:20] <roycroft> there's an outfit called sabco that make brew systems
[18:11:32] <roycroft> there are tens of thousands of homebrewers
[18:11:48] <PetefromTn> I was kinda amazed at how much commercailly available stands cost.
[18:11:49] <roycroft> i live in a city of 200,000 people and there are almost 200 members of my brew club
[18:11:59] <roycroft> which is a small percentage of the actual number of homebrewers
[18:12:07] <PetefromTn> I'm sure...
[18:12:09] <roycroft> and that's just one small market
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[18:13:18] <PetefromTn> Maybe I need to look more closely at this idea and possibly start drawing some stand models. I like the square steel tube it is easy to work with and cuts nice, also welding is simple and clean.
[18:13:44] <PetefromTn> Is there anything CNC machining related that would be of use to these guys? Trying to find work for my VMC here too...LOL
[18:14:08] <roycroft> yes, i like square steel tubing for that
[18:14:53] <roycroft> i'm designing a temperature controller for the cold side (fermentation), and it will need an enclosure that will be cnc milled
[18:15:08] <roycroft> but that's not really what you're thinking of, i should imagine
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[18:15:16] <GammaX-Shop> Afternoon all
[18:15:37] <roycroft> i can think of lots of things i'd machine for a brew stand
[18:15:42] <roycroft> but nothing mass-market
[18:15:45] <PetefromTn> The ones I made were all from a local club that saw my craigslist ad. They all provided the burners and accessories and even did the design of the stand.
[18:16:08] <PetefromTn> GammaX-Shop He man...
[18:16:20] GammaX-Shop is now known as GammaX-HeMan
[18:16:27] <PetefromTn> I just built what they asked for LOL...
[18:16:30] <GammaX-HeMan> WHats up Pete
[18:16:32] <roycroft> when you do these jobs, be sure you get them to bring you some homebrew as well as paying you :)
[18:16:37] <roycroft> most homebrewers are happy to share
[18:17:12] <PetefromTn> LOL I would but I don't drink so I was content to just receive some pictures of their setups working and installed and hearing about how they enjoyed the products.
[18:17:19] <roycroft> if you can do sanitary welds, you could get a lot of business welding fittings on their kettles, etc.
[18:17:45] <roycroft> it's hard to find a good sanitary welder who doesn't have a huge minimum charge
[18:17:51] <GammaX-HeMan> im a pretty good welder
[18:18:04] <roycroft> and most brewers don't want to pay $120 for adding a single fitting to their brew kettle
[18:18:15] <roycroft> have you ever done any sanitary welding though?
[18:18:30] <PetefromTn> I am a fair Stainless Tig welder but not entirely sure what is involved to make it sanitary. I always use a purge when doing stainless of course and keep it clean and try to keep the heat and oxidation out.
[18:18:48] <roycroft> using purge gas behind the weld is an important part
[18:18:58] <roycroft> but the real challenge is making the weld very very smooth
[18:19:06] <roycroft> microscopic pores can harbor bacteria
[18:19:12] <PetefromTn> I have seen that you actually want a tight fit and most don't even use filler...
[18:19:32] <roycroft> well, i think you'll use filler most of the time, but very little
[18:20:04] <roycroft> the welds really need to be smooth as glass
[18:20:07] <PetefromTn> honestly on thin walled things like that you really should not need filler unless there is a gap where there should not be.
[18:21:05] <PetefromTn> is there a certification for this?
[18:21:12] <roycroft> i'm not sure
[18:21:27] <PetefromTn> never heard of one but I would not be surprised if there were.
[18:21:37] <roycroft> i can tell you that in my part of the world, finding a sanitary welder is harder than finding someone who can weld stands
[18:21:42] <PetefromTn> My tig is a large commercial unit and works quite well..
[18:21:43] <roycroft> it's a big problem for homebrewers
[18:21:49] <GammaX-HeMan> PetefromTn: I have never welded stainless but I realy wanna do alum tig... just so expensive!
[18:22:00] <GammaX-HeMan> I want to trade some stuff for one one of these days...
[18:22:02] <roycroft> i have a nice tig welder
[18:22:03] <PetefromTn> I do aluminum with the Tig occasionally.
[18:22:20] <Connor> PetefromTn: Saw post from Bubba about you having computer and internet problems?
[18:22:24] <roycroft> it's not blue or red though
[18:22:27] <PetefromTn> I have welded up several aluminum bass boats
[18:22:40] <GammaX-HeMan> I like the fact that If I jack or a job with the mill or lathe... I can weld some material back on and modify the cycle and redoe it.
[18:22:48] <PetefromTn> I have built turbo manifolds for performance cars etc..
[18:23:14] <PetefromTn> mine isn't red or blue either LOL..
[18:23:16] <roycroft> this is what i have:
[18:23:17] <roycroft> http://www.everlastgenerators.com/PowerTig--250EX-381-pd.html
[18:23:28] <roycroft> i'm not a very good welder at this point
[18:23:38] <roycroft> but i know that's a decent machine
[18:23:44] <roycroft> and not too expensive
[18:23:57] <PetefromTn> Yeah I have heard good and bad on those, It sure looks like a decent machine.
[18:24:39] <PetefromTn> Mines an L-tec made by the same people who make Esab..
[18:24:45] <roycroft> most of the bad i've heard is from bigots who think anything not blue or red is crap, and won't even consider anything else
[18:24:47] <Connor> PetefromTn: Also finished up my Power draw bar last night.. but.. I need to remake the lift plate out of .5" steel.. I used .375" alum.. and it flexes under the pressure.. it works.. but.. once I lock it down to the head, it will bend the screws that it rides on.
[18:24:54] <PetefromTn> It is a beast with over 350 amps..
[18:25:03] <roycroft> some of the bad i've heard is from idiots who don't know how to weld
[18:25:08] <Connor> Only issue is.. I'm not setup to mill out steel.. only have 2 flute end mills.. and no steel.
[18:25:12] <PetefromTn> probably...
[18:25:25] <roycroft> l-tec are pretty good
[18:25:31] <PetefromTn> Connor Well that sucks... I probably got some steel here that might work if you need it.
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[18:26:11] <PetefromTn> It has served me faithfully and welded everything I have asked of it for many years now.... It is an awesome machine.
[18:26:26] <PetefromTn> It also is not shy on the power when you stomp that pedal LOL...
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[18:27:13] <roycroft> have you ever used a thumb-dial torch?
[18:27:28] <roycroft> i have a friend who swears by them but i've never tried one
[18:27:31] <PetefromTn> Only thing that ever went wrong with it was the foot pedal cable got jerked out one time and crunched the plastic connector. It has a new one now LOL.
[18:28:58] <PetefromTn> Nah I like the foot pedal but for certain things the thumb dial could be useful. I have done work on my offroader suzuki samurias where it was hard to reach the work and kick the pedal and kinda wished for something else. I usually just adjust max for what I need and cheat the pedal and then pull off when I am done. Not the best for shielding but it works..
[18:29:27] <roycroft> you can always operate the pedal with your chin or elbow in such situations :)
[18:29:44] <PetefromTn> LOL yeah I have done all sorts of contortions
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[18:30:35] <PetefromTn> I have built several rock crawler Suzuki Samurais for myself and my kids and basically either tig welded everything or if it was real thick and difficult to reach used the Arc output in DC stick...
[18:30:49] <roycroft> *nod*
[18:30:53] <PetefromTn> I have a mig welder but I don't care for mig too much...
[18:31:04] <roycroft> i use mig fairly often
[18:31:15] <roycroft> it's not as neat as tig, but it's a lot faster
[18:31:37] <PetefromTn> yeah it has it's place for sure, I just love the control of the tig.
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[18:33:05] <roycroft> i rarely do any smaw these days
[18:33:19] <roycroft> although i went for years with an old lincoln buzz box
[18:33:39] * roycroft does not weld professionally - he's more of a "farm welder"
[18:33:50] <roycroft> a farm welder with good toys :)
[18:34:04] <PetefromTn> LOl..... I quite enjoy welding, and it makes me some decent cash occasionally.
[18:34:10] <roycroft> i enjoy it too
[18:34:35] <PetefromTn> Right now I am so slow around here I am wondering what I can sell to pay the bills LOL....
[18:35:22] <PetefromTn> Connor Ya there man?
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[18:36:20] <PetefromTn> This damn MIRC does not show me when people are online or not like the quassel did... unless if there name is there they are online actually.
[18:36:22] <roycroft> since you enjoy welding, and have somewhat of a connection with that local brew club, i'd suggest doing kettle welding
[18:36:31] <Connor> PetefromTn: Yea. on phone.. one minute.
[18:36:44] <roycroft> get an old keg, buy some stainless fittings, weld them up really neatly, and you can show off your skills
[18:37:10] <roycroft> you won't get rich from that, but you can probably pick up a lot of little jobs
[18:37:14] <PetefromTn> roycroft Sure man just need to find the cash to buy the stuff...
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[18:37:30] <roycroft> you can get an old keg for next to nothing
[18:37:33] <PetefromTn> Rich is not in the equation, just trying to make a damn living is all...
[18:37:37] <roycroft> and the fittinngs as well
[18:37:52] <roycroft> you just need enough to demonstrate your skill
[18:38:01] <archivist> next to nothing for some is expensive
[18:38:06] <roycroft> yes, i know
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[18:39:05] <archivist> good week for me...40 pounds
[18:39:11] <PetefromTn> roycroft Not trying to be a smartass really but right now my house's air conditioner took a dump and I need all the cash for that and with no real work on the horizon it is difficult to put any money out that will not bring back more without doubt.
[18:39:26] <roycroft> i'm just offering ideas
[18:39:36] <PetefromTn> Ideas are most appreciated...
[18:39:37] <roycroft> i don't expect you to do anything with them
[18:39:50] <roycroft> i don't know your situation, so i can't possibly know what is best for you to do
[18:40:01] <PetefromTn> no worries man...
[18:40:07] <PetefromTn> don't sweat it.
[18:40:09] <generic_nick> cook meth?
[18:40:21] <roycroft> they do that a lot where i live
[18:40:24] <roycroft> i wouldn't recommend it
[18:40:29] <PetefromTn> LOL thats what a lot of assholes around this part of the world do..
[18:40:40] * roycroft has seen too many times what happens to people who do meth
[18:40:47] <generic_nick> come up with a widget to sell.
[18:41:03] <generic_nick> it's not that hard, people will buy anything
[18:41:30] <PetefromTn> I served in the US Coast Guard for quite awhile so methinks you will surely never read about me or my family doing that crap.
[18:41:42] <PetefromTn> generic_nick Thats the goal right now.
[18:42:04] <generic_nick> do you have any hobby related web forums you're part of where you can make something related and show it off?
[18:42:09] <PetefromTn> Honestly I fought to keep that sorta stuff out of our country now they make it in the bathroom...
[18:42:44] <archivist> generic_nick, I wish that worked :(
[18:42:48] <PetefromTn> yeah sure...just gotta come up with a good design for something that will sell.
[18:43:01] <generic_nick> it absolutely works
[18:43:21] <generic_nick> how do you think i pay the mortgage in southern california?
[18:43:23] <PetefromTn> only problem with that is the stuff is usually not main stream so there is typically a limited market.
[18:43:41] <generic_nick> it'll get you some income momentarily at least
[18:43:49] <generic_nick> till you can find some real work
[18:43:58] <roycroft> it's lunch time
[18:44:02] <PetefromTn> jeez you pay a socal mortgage with widgets for hobbies?
[18:44:10] <generic_nick> machine AR lowers, the 80% ones you can legally sell
[18:44:17] <roycroft> if i think of something that will make you a million dollars i'll let you know petefromtn :)
[18:44:26] <roycroft> unless it's something i want to do :P
[18:44:27] <PetefromTn> roy
[18:44:30] <generic_nick> PetefromTn: i havent had a job since the beginning of 2009
[18:44:34] <PetefromTn> yeah I am sure you will LOL
[18:44:55] <PetefromTn> LOL need a partner with tools?
[18:45:04] <generic_nick> haha right
[18:45:19] <PetefromTn> Hell what are ya making over there anyways?
[18:45:55] <generic_nick> im nho longer doing that, i got a contract machining these: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8395/8704736685_63028c81dd_c.jpg
[18:46:04] <generic_nick> that's someone else's product
[18:46:23] <PetefromTn> yeah but it is paying YOUR bills right..
[18:46:28] <generic_nick> yea
[18:46:55] <PetefromTn> I hope I am not sounding too much like a mooch here...
[18:46:59] <generic_nick> average machine time is about 75/hr. not too hard to live off of that if you're doing it out of your home
[18:47:30] <PetefromTn> I am just saying that I am trying to get started is all... Just got the machine working after all and it still does not have a toolchanger function yet.
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[18:47:51] <PetefromTn> Hell man I would be happy with half that much I live quite frugally here.
[18:48:21] <PetefromTn> I am sure I will come up with something soon hopefully. Looking at options and ideas now.
[18:48:27] <generic_nick> PetefromTn: i started in your shoes. lost my job in 2009, bought some machines and went to work
[18:48:41] <PetefromTn> how many machines?
[18:48:55] <PetefromTn> what kinda machines?
[18:49:11] <generic_nick> started with a surface grinder, then a manual lathe, then a manual mill
[18:49:23] <generic_nick> then got my shizuoka, and converted it to run on emc2
[18:49:42] <PetefromTn> interesting...
[18:49:53] <generic_nick> once i got the cnc mill going, i was able to make some decent money. then i built the hardinge HNC
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[18:50:04] <generic_nick> that's all i have right now
[18:50:18] <generic_nick> your mill is lightyears above my crappy mill
[18:50:27] <generic_nick> you're off to a good start
[18:50:37] <PetefromTn> That is what I have been working towards. Started with several different manual mills and lathes, then built the RF45 CNC and got the bug.
[18:50:59] <PetefromTn> Now I got this pretty nice VMC here that is finally running. Just need something to whittle on it now.
[18:51:10] <generic_nick> only thing is i've been machining full time for 16 years and i was a manufacturing engineer
[18:51:25] <PetefromTn> Yeah I am pleased with it, it is not perfect by any stretch but it is quite nice.
[18:51:27] <generic_nick> get the toolchanger working before you go too crazy with work
[18:51:57] <PetefromTn> The toolchanger will be kind of a long term project because I don't want to nor can I afford to screw it up LOL.
[18:52:06] <generic_nick> anyways, i have a pin stuck true on my lathe for the toolchanger. gotta go get that working
[18:52:16] <PetefromTn> I do have the power draw bar working tho..
[18:52:31] <PetefromTn> good luck man. go make some money right.
[18:52:53] <generic_nick> not making crap for money now, we're still in prototype phase lol
[18:53:12] <generic_nick> almost there though. probably another month
[18:53:21] <PetefromTn> I gotta go too, we got a gift certificate for joes crab shack for her from my stepson for mothers day we are gonna go eat some crab for once LOL.
[18:53:34] <generic_nick> haha nice
[18:53:38] <generic_nick> time for lunch for me too
[18:53:39] <generic_nick> adios
[18:53:40] <Connor> PetefromTn: My lift plate is 2.5" x 4.5" and needs to be .5" thick.
[18:53:50] <PetefromTn> adios man nice chatting with ya.
[18:54:00] <Connor> and I don't have any 4 flute end mills.. nor have I done nay milling in steel.
[18:54:32] <PetefromTn> Connor I MIGHT have something like that gotta go see. Going to dinner right now. I will check tomorrow unless you are in a terrible hurry.
[18:54:46] <Connor> Na, I'm good for now.
[18:54:49] <PetefromTn> I am quite sure the Cincinatti can take care of the steel milling problem LOL.
[18:55:54] <PetefromTn> I actually have a small job working in some hot rolled steel tube so we will see how it goes. I need to buy some nicer steel carbide mills..
[18:56:41] <PetefromTn> Gimme a shout tomorrow and I will see what i can do buddy..peace
[18:56:46] <PetefromTn> Gotta go.
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[19:06:54] <generic_nick> weird..... the hal meter shows an input as true, but when i check that input at the 7i33, it shows that it should be false
[19:07:05] <generic_nick> 7i37*
[19:07:32] <generic_nick> i wonder if my ribbon cable is screwy
[19:10:56] <pcw_home> 7I37 I/O in inverting so beware (7I37 input active - FPGA pin low)
[19:11:15] <pcw_home> is inverting
[19:12:32] <generic_nick> pcw_home: i was just going to ask you that. so if the input pin 0 on the 7i37 is getting 12v, but emc2 is not seeing that input as it should (true in this case), the ribbon cable may have an open circuit?
[19:12:54] <generic_nick> mind you this machine functioned perfectly for years with it's current configuration, all i did was move the machine
[19:13:53] <pcw_home> if a 7I37 input is 12V the GPIO pin should be low
[19:14:15] <generic_nick> right, so it could be an open circuit then?
[19:14:31] <generic_nick> or would it be shorted?
[19:15:04] <pcw_home> If LinuxCNC does not see a change when the 7I37 input changes I would trace the signal
[19:15:16] <generic_nick> there is 12v going to that pin, so that pin would be false based on my hal configuration, but it's true instead
[19:16:02] <generic_nick> pcw_home: the signal is fine all the way to the 7i37. the problem is in the 7i37, ribbon cable, or 5i20
[19:16:31] <generic_nick> there is 12v at the 7i37 input pin
[19:16:49] <pcw_home> did you measure the 12V across the IN+ / IN- pins?
[19:16:54] <generic_nick> yes
[19:17:01] <generic_nick> just like i checked the other pins
[19:17:41] <generic_nick> all the pins are seeing 12v, except the one that shouldnt (that bit isnt active).
[19:19:00] <pcw_home> which input?
[19:19:41] <generic_nick> it's an encoder on my lathe's turret, there are 4 wires that come from an encoder. depending on which position it's in, one or more pins will be active. in it's current position, the correct pins are active. however, hal is showing that one other pin is also active, no matter what position the turret is in. that pin is stuck true
[19:20:09] <pcw_home> which 7I37 input I mean
[19:20:28] <generic_nick> the one that is having problems is input 0.
[19:20:58] <generic_nick> i assume that could be the last wire in the ribbon cable?
[19:21:28] <pcw_home> Yes thats often one that gets broken
[19:21:29] <generic_nick> maybe it got damaged moving the lathe. the computer did put a little strain on it at one point
[19:21:36] <generic_nick> ok cool
[19:21:38] <pcw_home> red wire
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[19:22:00] <generic_nick> so i should be on the right track?
[19:22:19] <pcw_home> yeah you can Ohm it out
[19:22:32] <pcw_home> (unpowered)
[19:22:43] <generic_nick> will do
[19:23:07] <generic_nick> i may have another long ribbon cable kicking around which i can swap out
[19:23:56] <generic_nick> wish i checked that before i started taking covers off lol
[19:24:20] <generic_nick> i always check mechanical things first since that's easier for me to understand
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[19:34:11] <lando5446> cradek: are you there?
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[20:04:51] <GammaX-Shop> SO has the digitizer program in linuxcnc gone anywear?
[20:04:55] <GammaX-Shop> anywhere*
[20:06:49] <sharpen047> anyone mind helping me include a 5 axis ini into emc?
[20:08:04] <sharpen047> i have the ini file the hal and tbl but dont know how to get it to run
[20:10:54] <generic_nick> you need to ask specific questions or you wont get much help
[20:10:56] <JT-Shop> at what point are you stuck exactly
[20:11:44] <GammaX-Shop> generic_nick: you bought a encoder for your spindle not too long ago correct?
[20:12:03] <GammaX-Shop> JT-Shop: is the digitizing program still being developed or has it been forgotten?
[20:12:59] <generic_nick> GammaX-Shop: i got some optical switches to make a disk encoder with
[20:13:14] <GammaX-Shop> what brand and model?
[20:13:27] <andypugh> GammaX-Shop: You rather have to work out who wrote it, and ask them. I don't even know which program you mean. Don't go thinking that there is any sort of plan with LinuxCNC, or that any developer even knows what any other developer is doiong.
[20:13:51] <sharpen047> ok ive been looking into upgrading my 3 axis cnc into a 5 axis. i dont have a 4-5 axis yet but i can get one or build one. i have access to mastercam which can generate 5 axis gcode(no post yet) but i cant even control it once i get the code with emc. so i found the 5 axis code on the git tree and dont know what to do with the files now that i have them
[20:14:11] <andypugh> generic_nick: My hard-won experience is that reflective sensors work less well than gap sensors
[20:14:11] <GammaX-Shop> lol I remember back in 2007 there was a digitizing program and I completely forget who wrote it...
[20:14:50] <andypugh> sharpen047: How do you want to control your 5-axis?
[20:14:59] <GammaX-Shop> andypugh: I got a photomicrosensor I plan on using that wil lreflect off the spinles on my quill
[20:15:17] <Jymmm> andypugh: telepathically
[20:15:31] <generic_nick> andypugh: this is what i got. http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/414/OPB900-913-23105.pdf
[20:15:40] <generic_nick> the ttl version
[20:15:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: Though, not sure on the latency =)
[20:15:57] <andypugh> sharpen047: There are two ways to do it, you can have a CAM system that commands XYZABC to control the tool-tip, or you can use kinematics to do it.
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[20:16:22] <andypugh> generic_nick: Those should work fine.
[20:16:52] <GammaX-Shop> andypugh: this is what I got http://www.ebay.com/itm/320968554164?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[20:17:11] <sharpen047> andypugh: one lpt port can support 4 axes, how would i control the last of the 5? i currently run a g540 with the A axis on the board running a second x motor. so i would need 2 lpt ports correct? how do i tell emc to do that?
[20:17:44] <archivist> sharpen047, my 5 axis is plain xyzab and without the 5 axis kins
[20:18:04] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: you can always add another parport...
[20:18:05] <sharpen047> andypugh: apparently i dont know what kinematics does, i thought thats what controlled the second lpt port.
[20:18:34] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: i have an onboard and a pci port, the second port is open at the moment. how do i tell emc to use that at the same time?
[20:18:51] <andypugh> I have used quite a few of this sort of thing, and they are rather more fussy than the transmissive style: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Optek/OPB746WZ/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvQY0bpacMSoa7MXQF5PmS1sqCJ9NjSwUU%3d
[20:19:14] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: its in the stepconfig
[20:19:36] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: when you tell linuxcnc which partport address to use theres an option I believe rite below it for a second one.
[20:20:22] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: thanks ill go look real fast, computer is in the garage with CNC. Just currious what do you use for generating the 5 axis code? same with you andypugh
[20:20:53] <GammaX-Shop> uhhhh I dont have 5 axis... only 3 :)
[20:21:01] <andypugh> When you get to this sort of size, though, reflective is all there is: http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Avago-Technologies/AEDR-8300-1W2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsx4%2fFVpd5sGekUyiYT5sTF
[20:21:10] <andypugh> sharpen047: I don't use 5-axis.
[20:21:50] <archivist> sharpen047, I use inside rear of skull for my 5 axis code :)
[20:21:54] <andypugh> But, with the right kinematics you can program the too-tip position and angle in 3D-space and LinuxCNC calculates the actuator positions to make that happen.
[20:22:10] <sharpen047> archivist: lol wow
[20:22:21] <andypugh> But, if your CAM can do that, then it is probably easier.
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[20:22:47] <GammaX-Shop> Mastercam can do 5 axis im almost certain..
[20:23:14] <sharpen047> haha ok so i have mastercam but no post, thats another joke haha. Thanks for the second parport, rather stupid of me-but thats okay i am making a name for myself right?
[20:23:16] <archivist> sharpen047, I tend to do regular shapes around an article so it is easier than you think
[20:23:19] <GammaX-Shop> anyone have an extra 3 jaw chuck they would like to trade? :)
[20:23:35] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: right and i can generate it, but i cant get it to output into something emc can read
[20:23:47] <GammaX-Shop> so you need a post...
[20:23:54] <sharpen047> yeah:(
[20:24:04] <sharpen047> expensive...
[20:24:06] <archivist> write the post
[20:24:20] <sharpen047> isnt it basically like learning a programming language?
[20:24:27] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam_Post
[20:24:53] <sharpen047> isnt that only 3 axis? thats what i use now
[20:25:24] <GammaX-Shop> You could write your own...
[20:25:45] <GammaX-Shop> I just have no idea how to do it. I would look at that post and then edit it. make it an all nighter.
[20:25:48] <sharpen047> but i dont know the language, that is the last hurdle software side for converting my cnc
[20:26:46] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: well people are saying i can take the generic haas 5 axis and edit that but i dont know what im looking at. I could upload it if you would like to take a look?
[20:27:06] <archivist> methinks it would be a very long night
[20:27:11] <JT-Shop> are people doing that or just guessing?
[20:27:12] <sharpen047> same
[20:27:22] <sharpen047> people are doing that.. for the right prive
[20:27:25] <sharpen047> price*
[20:27:37] <GammaX-Shop> yeah the haas 5 axis is closest I beleive
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[20:27:47] <GammaX-Shop> from what everytone else says on forums atleast.
[20:28:07] <sharpen047> i can get g code out of it but it has the n system like n0001 in front
[20:29:10] <JT-Shop> that's just line numbers
[20:29:28] <archivist> would that be a simple edit to remove
[20:29:56] <JT-Shop> LinuxCNC ignores them anyway IIRC
[20:30:10] <sharpen047> alright ill try to have it run it right now
[20:30:13] <sharpen047> be right back
[20:30:44] <JT-Shop> dang X axis belt is shot on the plasma after all these years
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[20:32:28] <GammaX-Shop> JT-Shop: where do you live at?
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[20:34:06] <GammaX-Shop> new hampshire?
[20:34:31] <GammaX-Shop> wilmot possibly?
[20:37:20] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: ok tried to use the second port but it doesnt come up to change the pinouts- like it still doesnt have an option besides 2 3 or 4 axis
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[20:40:05] <archivist> sharpen047, I hand edited the ini to add A and B axis
[20:40:27] <JT-Shop> GammaX-Shop: out in the woods in swamp east Missouri LOL
[20:41:16] <GammaX-Shop> missery
[20:41:27] <sharpen047> archivist: basically just renaming a copy of the x into an a and b? simple as that?
[20:41:48] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: I think what archivist said is going to be the best option....
[20:42:19] <archivist> sharpen047, basicly then a bit of editing
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[20:44:40] <sharpen047> archivist: how do i tell it which pin is the a and c axis? a and c in my case
[20:44:53] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: also in regards to the post.... You miht be able to contact the devs who made the posts on that link I sent you and ask for help.
[20:45:16] <GammaX-Shop> c axis?!
[20:46:39] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: the wiki link? and like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-engraving-machine-Rotary-Axis-A-Axis-B-Axis-4th-5th-Axis-CNC-Rotary-Table/261198401838?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D7729271719685717765%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D261118755481%26
[20:46:42] <GammaX-Shop> Tuesday I get to pick up a pallet of free old computers and parts... perfect for cnc :)
[20:47:41] <GammaX-Shop> wow that little guy is interesting!
[20:47:56] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: yeah luckily i own a pc repair business and have 18 computers and only5 are multicore
[20:48:27] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: where do you live?
[20:48:29] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: yeah its good for 20 lbs too but ill probably get that and upgrade the motor for the table to a stronger one. OR ill make my own
[20:48:39] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: near los angeles
[20:49:11] <GammaX-Shop> I just left digital forensics to start a machining business..
[20:49:41] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: interested in that table? haha
[20:49:54] <GammaX-Shop> making 6 figures to currently... none! lol
[20:50:05] <sharpen047> wow mind if i ask what you do?
[20:50:08] <sharpen047> what you make
[20:50:10] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: nah, too much for my right now. too much room for error with more axi'
[20:50:35] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: what do you use for 3axis cam?
[20:50:40] <L84Supper> anyone ever have one of these? http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/tls/3807078432.html
[20:50:49] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: nothing yet, gonna start out making some gang tool holders and then w/e my mind thniks of.
[20:50:53] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: camworks
[20:50:59] <L84Supper> kent owens horizontal mill
[20:51:28] <GammaX-Shop> L84Supper: ive seen them... but ive never wanted to use one.
[20:52:02] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: its nice as its completely integrated into solidworks. Which I happen to love.
[20:52:39] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: i havent touched that tool changer thing yet, just built my second cnc and currently not making a thing, solidworks is great and i have an old copy somewhere but it isnt installed since i dont know how to use it yet, i can use mastercam pretty decently at the moment though.
[20:53:10] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: just installed the mister too. i think actual cutting area is 4x5 foot and maybe 5-6" z
[20:53:18] <GammaX-Shop> the mister?
[20:53:30] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: like coolant,but mist
[20:53:35] <GammaX-Shop> ohhhh
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[20:54:03] <GammaX-Shop> ok i gotta jump in shower, im in FL for weekend and lady friend is comin home from work now.
[20:54:15] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: cool you in here often?
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[20:54:25] <GammaX-Shop> sharpen047: lately every day
[20:54:35] <sharpen047> GammaX-Shop: cool, mind if i bug you later?
[20:54:40] <GammaX-Shop> good luck on getting everything up and running
[20:54:47] <GammaX-Shop> sure, Ill help if I can.
[20:54:52] <sharpen047> thanks
[20:55:06] <GammaX-Shop> everyone in here knows i have been given a lot of help! lol
[20:55:09] <GammaX-Shop> NP. Later all.
[20:55:47] <sharpen047> anyone have any experience in mastercam posts?
[20:56:04] <Tom_itx> no just smartcam post
[20:57:01] <sharpen047> isnt smartcam a camera? hah
[20:57:09] <Tom_itx> no
[20:57:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.smartcamcnc.com/
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[21:03:10] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:03:15] <Tom_itx> don't they have a forum you can ask on?
[21:03:59] <Tom_itx> or is it all 'pay per view'?
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[21:12:34] <r00t4rd3d> time to drop another 500 on parts :/
[21:12:49] <sharpen047> Tom_itx: was that to me?
[21:12:57] <Tom_itx> yessir
[21:13:34] <sharpen047> Tom_itx: well yes but its only under current copies. i have access to a machine shop with an out of date version of mastercam
[21:14:23] <Tom_itx> i didn't think their posts were readily modified
[21:15:09] <Tom_itx> back when i was shopping, i chose smartcam over them because their posts were free and easily modified
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[21:15:53] <Tom_itx> they may have changed their policies since
[21:17:18] <sharpen047> Tom_itx: yeah anyone can modify them now but they made it much harder to modify. they have courses just to learn how to edit posts. but i dont know how much modification the haas one needs.i can change axes and stuff in mastercam itself but not the invalidchars and stuff
[21:17:47] <sharpen047> Tom_itx: smartcam looks nice but im just starting and cant afford a 4000+ program yet
[21:18:21] <L84Supper> $20K with all the bells and whistles
[21:19:06] <sharpen047> again
[21:19:07] <sharpen047> haha
[21:19:15] <L84Supper> sorry for mastercam not smartcam
[21:19:48] <rene_> hello can everybody help me with the stepper driving time with DM860A from longs motor
[21:20:55] <sharpen047> rene_: what do you need help with?
[21:21:53] <Tom_itx> mine is dated but it still works for me
[21:22:01] <rene_> hello i need the Step Time Step Space Direction Hold Direction Setup
[21:22:58] <rene_> from longs motor, there give me no answer
[21:23:28] <rene_> so i hope you can help me
[21:23:51] <rene_> whitch time must i adjust
[21:24:20] <sharpen047> longs is a chinese company, have you tried default values for "other" or you just want some to try?
[21:25:52] <sharpen047> the pinouts are how you wired the driver and motor. have you done that yet?
[21:26:05] <rene_> i give in the standard from china board
[21:26:43] <rene_> the driver runs but i dont no is it corectly
[21:27:30] <sharpen047> does the motor turn? or have you tried it? if the settings are wrong or the motor isnt correctly connected you could ruin any combination of the driver the motor or your pc
[21:28:16] <rene_> the motor runs corectly
[21:28:32] <rene_> in + or-
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[21:30:08] <sharpen047> if it runs correctly, im not sure what the problem is? if you are asking for the step time etc then are the measurments off?
[21:30:10] <rene_> i means in dir steps or only steps it is ok
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[21:32:22] <rene_> linuxcnc is new for me and i want adjust corectly
[21:33:02] <rene_> would rather ask before errors occur
[21:33:34] <rene_> thanks for your answer
[21:34:04] <sharpen047> its more of a trial and error approach. i dont have the timing for that board or your pc but the link to try is here:http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_stepconf.html
[21:35:02] <rene_> thanks i will look in the link
[21:35:06] <sharpen047> rene_: if you have access to calipers that would be your best option. run emc and tell it to move .1 inch(or metric if you use metric) and see if it moves the distance it says
[21:36:21] <rene_> jes it run of 0.005mm with a spindelpitch from 10mm corectly
[21:36:37] <sharpen047> rene_: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html at 1.3 it says how to make sure your settings are correct. if the distance is correct, you will end up in the same location.
[21:37:15] <rene_> ok thanks
[21:37:29] <sharpen047> np, hope it helps
[21:39:32] <rene_> yes thanks, i think the machine is correctly, i have adjust from this link today
[21:41:59] <rene_> the steppers runs with the china standards or the standards from Basic informations of linuxcnc.org
[21:43:18] <rene_> just wanted to have but sure do not make any errors
[21:43:36] <rene_> thanks for your help
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[21:44:52] <generic_nick> pcw_home: i was unable to fix it with the ribbon cable, but i switched it to the next empty input and now it works fine
[21:45:01] <generic_nick> so i just cant use input 0
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[21:45:58] <generic_nick> i know, not the best fix, but i need the lathe working
[21:47:54] <generic_nick> i must have damaged something when i moved the lathe.
[21:48:00] <generic_nick> it worked fine before that
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[21:48:31] <PCW> You replaced the whole cable?
[21:49:41] -!- rene_ [rene_!~chatzilla@178.115.248.140.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #linuxcnc
[21:50:06] <generic_nick> no, didnt have one so i changed the connectors on both ends
[21:50:14] <generic_nick> i inspected the cable and it seemed fine
[21:50:21] <generic_nick> but it could still be the cable
[21:50:28] <generic_nick> ill get a new one shortly
[21:50:56] <generic_nick> i should have a spare, not sure where all mine went
[21:51:03] <PCW> Its pretty easy to Ohm out
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[21:52:27] <PCW> if its uses AMP connectors you can us a sharp probe on the top of the connectors
[21:53:42] <generic_nick> i tried checking it, seems to be open
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[21:53:54] <generic_nick> i dont have small enough probes though
[21:54:09] <generic_nick> i dont have much around to check it properly
[21:54:33] <generic_nick> no biggie, its working for now. ill just order a new cable.
[21:54:55] <generic_nick> i like to keep some spare parts around so it isnt down for long if something goes wrong
[21:54:58] <PCW> yeah some 25 mill square pins stolen from a male connector can be used as well
[21:55:25] <generic_nick> LOL yea but im not an electronics guy, i dont have much of that stuff kicking around
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[21:56:14] <generic_nick> my electronics background consists of installing a stereo in my cars
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[22:03:38] <PCW> You could clip some off just about ant bad motherboard/PC card with .1" connectors
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[22:03:48] <PCW> s/ant/any/
[22:06:04] <generic_nick> ugh i got a long drive tomorrow, i need to get the jeep in shape so it doesnt fall apart
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[22:19:53] <PetefromTn> elo...?
[22:21:04] <sharpen047> does anyone have any idea what noise floor calibration time out is? EMC wont start
[22:23:24] <sharpen047> i have 2 par ports one is 0x378 the second is 0x379 but dmesg shows ath5k phy0 noise floor calibration failed
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[22:44:50] <Tom_itx> 0x379 doesn't sound right
[22:45:07] <JT-Shop> how did you find the second parallel port address?
[22:45:22] <Tom_itx> 0x278 0x378 0x 3BC iirc are the common ones
[22:45:45] <sharpen047> 378 is the first one
[22:45:51] <sharpen047> idk the second one
[22:46:03] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/pci_parallel_port.html
[22:46:13] <sharpen047> emc says it in the error log.
[22:46:41] <JT-Shop> so you just guessed at the second parellel port address?
[22:49:09] <Tom_itx> 378-37A, 278-27A are the first two port ranges
[22:49:29] <sharpen047> i didnt specify a second address
[22:49:40] <sharpen047> second one isnt enabled
[22:51:52] <JT-Shop> perhaps you should pastebin the entire dmesg... nothing is making sense
[22:53:58] <PCW> ath5k phy0 noise floor calibration failed
[22:54:00] <PCW> sounds like a wireless card complaint
[22:54:21] <JT-Shop> ouch
[22:54:34] <PCW> so not linuxcnc related
[22:59:08] <sharpen047> ok pastebin is i5T0wG3T
[22:59:13] <sharpen047> oops
[22:59:31] <sharpen047> http://pastebin.com/i5T0wG3T
[23:00:38] <sharpen047> i think i pasted twice.. i tried to get the emc error but apparantly it didnt get it
[23:02:04] <JT-Shop> you can say sudo dmesg -c to clear dmesg then run your configuration
[23:02:14] <sharpen047> ok brb
[23:02:32] s1dev is now known as s1dev|away
[23:03:00] <JT-Shop> hmmm PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[23:05:04] s1dev|away is now known as s1dev
[23:05:41] <sharpen047> http://pastebin.com/xN2rtzfl
[23:06:32] <JT-Shop> did you start your LinuxCNC configuration? I don't see it
[23:07:02] <sharpen047> config? no just tried to open emc
[23:07:12] <JT-Shop> I'm no expert but this kinds sticks out PARPORT: ERROR: port parport0 claim failed
[23:07:20] <JT-Shop> describe "open emc"
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[23:08:27] <sharpen047> from the gnome menu run CNC then linux cnc> select 5x540(my cnc config file)
[23:08:41] <sharpen047> if i was going to run code and make a part thats how i would do it
[23:09:08] <sharpen047> sorry, im one of those people you have to spell everything out for haha
[23:09:16] <JT-Shop> ok, btw if you create a desktop shortcut it saves many steps
[23:09:20] <JT-Shop> me too
[23:09:47] <JT-Shop> have you installed anything in the computer? software or hardware?
[23:09:48] <sharpen047> i did that too but just to be clear on what i was opening
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[23:10:58] <sharpen047> yes the second pci card (par port) its this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166005 but with serial ports x2
[23:11:10] -!- rene_ has quit [Client Quit]
[23:11:28] <sharpen047> thats where the second par port came in
[23:11:49] <JT-Shop> so if you take that card out your configuration runs fine?
[23:12:14] <sharpen047> should, ive been using it without for about a month now with this new cnc. i ran the same file that isnt modified
[23:13:17] <sharpen047> im trying to config emc to use two par ports, thats why i tried installing the new card. but even if i open the old config file that hasnt been modified it doesnt run. so the new card is bringing down the real time service
[23:13:34] <JT-Shop> ouch
[23:13:57] <JT-Shop> you need more I/O?
[23:14:09] <sharpen047> trying to upgrade to a 5 axis from a 3
[23:14:22] <JT-Shop> can I suggest something?
[23:14:25] <sharpen047> sure
[23:14:31] <JT-Shop> stepper machine?
[23:14:39] <sharpen047> like a smooth stepper
[23:14:40] <sharpen047> ?
[23:14:55] <JT-Shop> takes step and direction inputs?
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[23:15:09] <sharpen047> im not following
[23:15:26] <JT-Shop> your drives take step and direction inputs?
[23:15:40] <JT-Shop> from the parallel port
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[23:17:01] <JT-Shop> for $200 you can get a Mesa 5i25 7i76 combo with cable and have 5 axis plus spindle plus a ton of I/O
[23:17:12] -!- ravenlock [ravenlock!~ravenlock@enlightenment/developer/ravenlock] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:17:31] <JT-Shop> and you can save $1000 worth of beating your head against a wall
[23:18:32] <PCW> what does your loadrt hal_parport line look like?
[23:18:44] <sharpen047> JT-Shop: what do you mean?
[23:20:21] <sharpen047> JT-Shop: i was trying not to put more money into it since i was just curious to see if i could run a 5 axis first.
[23:20:34] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:20:41] <sharpen047> PCW: ill go check
[23:21:05] <sharpen047> JT-Shop: its not out of the question and i have been looking into it but dont know anyone using one because they dont use 5 axis.
[23:21:54] <JT-Shop> using one of what?
[23:21:57] <sharpen047> JT-Shop: im also not sure how they work. ive seen ones that basically throw out the use of emc and install their own software onto windows and thats about it
[23:22:18] <sharpen047> JT-Shop: are you talking about a usb to cnc adapter?
[23:22:33] <JT-Shop> nope, a pci control card
[23:22:39] <JT-Shop> usb won't work
[23:23:14] <JT-Shop> the 5i25 is used by many with LinuxCNC
[23:23:50] <andypugh> The 5i25 looks just like a PCI parallel port card. It emphatically is _not_ a PCI parallel card, though it is capable of emulating one.
[23:24:21] <JT-Shop> hi Andy, your gui is cool
[23:24:31] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC0pmOeYoEo
[23:24:32] <Tecan> (YC0pmOeYoEo) "Zydeco Gris Gris - Beausoleil" by "Jeffrey Caron" is "Entertainment" - Length: 0:04:08
[23:24:33] <PetefromTn> what GUI?
[23:24:58] <JT-Shop> you need to read the forum more often
[23:25:00] s1dev is now known as s1dev|away
[23:25:03] <PCW> On the other hand there should be no reason that two parallel ports wont work
[23:25:06] <PetefromTn> me?
[23:25:13] <andypugh> I am a bit stuck, I am trying to load a different ngc file for each tab. But I am not getting tab-selection to trigger an event.
[23:25:13] <JT-Shop> aye
[23:25:45] <PetefromTn> well this MIRC does not download the days convo so I am skrewed.
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[23:25:47] <JT-Shop> I think I ran across something on that
[23:25:48] <PCW> tab selection must change _something_
[23:26:04] <JT-Shop> Pete view the logs
[23:26:12] <sharpen047> PCW: http://pastebin.com/XBc6UTYG
[23:26:20] s1dev|away is now known as s1dev
[23:26:33] <andypugh> PCW, I think I just need to find (and enable) the correct event
[23:26:54] <PetefromTn> These NGC are the sorta wizards right?
[23:27:05] <JT-Shop> G code files
[23:27:05] <PCW> ok "0x379 out' is wrong
[23:27:09] <andypugh> sharpen047: I can almost guarantee that the second parport is not at 0x379
[23:27:45] <sharpen047> andypugh: im not sure why it shows that since i havent touched it
[23:27:49] <PCW> I would try with just the first (0x378) port
[23:27:52] <andypugh> PetefromTn: logger psha logs everything to the web
[23:27:56] <sharpen047> andypugh: i know thats not a valid address too
[23:28:09] <PetefromTn> where?
[23:28:16] <PCW> http://psha.org.ru/irc/
[23:28:18] <sharpen047> PCW: not sure how to change it since its not in stepconf either which is what i used
[23:28:27] <sharpen047> where would i get a 5i25?
[23:28:35] <PCW> edit the hal file
[23:28:44] <sharpen047> ok brb
[23:28:57] <PetefromTn> Oh so you mean I am famous for all my Bsing on here then?
[23:29:25] <PetefromTn> sharpen047 PCW here can take care of all your 5i25 needs LOL... he makes them
[23:29:27] <PCW> yep recorded for posterity
[23:29:49] <PetefromTn> Incidentally I have one in my Cincinatti and it is pretty cool so far.
[23:29:49] * JT-Shop puts on his pizza chef hat and wanders inside
[23:30:01] <PetefromTn> Ooh make me a stuffed crust.
[23:30:05] <PCW> mmmm pizza
[23:30:08] <JT-Shop> I have one on my plasma and one on my BP
[23:30:11] <PetefromTn> with meat lovers..
[23:30:14] <JT-Shop> yea, mmmmm
[23:30:31] <andypugh> I gave away my 5i25 :-)
[23:30:34] <JT-Shop> I'll leave the light on
[23:30:45] <andypugh> I kept the 6i25 though.
[23:30:53] <PetefromTn> Incidentally I ate a Steam Pot from Joe's crab shack today and it was SUPERB!!
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[23:31:05] <andypugh> I don't eat insects
[23:31:10] <JT-Shop> yea, that is good
[23:31:13] <PetefromTn> Oh I am sorry for you...
[23:31:20] <PCW> even big ones?
[23:31:23] <JT-Shop> swimming roaches yum
[23:31:29] <andypugh> Especially big ones.
[23:31:30] <PetefromTn> especially the big ones..
[23:31:35] <PetefromTn> ROFL
[23:31:45] -!- rob_h has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[23:32:03] <PCW> we all eat a few little ones I expect
[23:32:13] <PetefromTn> yuk.
[23:32:20] <JT-Shop> yup
[23:32:27] <PetefromTn> crayfish?
[23:33:36] <PetefromTn> I remember when I lived in Florida we would buy like 25 lbs of snow crab and melt a bucket of breakstones whipped butter and just make absolute pigs of ourselves. GAWD that was good...
[23:33:56] <PetefromTn> anyway back to CNC stuff...LOL
[23:35:14] <sharpen047> ok i removed the secodn par port from hal manually and it still errors, dmesg coming up
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[23:35:37] <JT-Shop> see you guys later
[23:35:42] <sharpen047> http://pastebin.com/WDP8pzpn
[23:36:08] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop Cya man... pizza man.
[23:36:10] <PCW> happy pizza
[23:36:54] <sharpen047> PCW: so you make those mesa i/o cards?
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[23:37:17] <PCW> hmm do you get that error if you remove the PCI parallel card?
[23:37:43] <PCW> Well I design them
[23:37:45] <andypugh> I suspect that he actually has minions to make the cards for him :-)
[23:37:53] <sharpen047> PCW: it didnt happen before so id say no.
[23:38:05] <PetefromTn> Yeah like despicable me...
[23:38:23] <sharpen047> hahaha he hires single eyed minions only
[23:38:36] <PetefromTn> we'll start calling him Gru...
[23:38:46] <PetefromTn> cracks me up...!!
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[23:41:02] <sharpen047> so is it just a hardware incompatibility with this machine? the card was used in the current computer with emc to control the same cnc
[23:41:24] <sharpen047> but this is a quad core and got 500000 latency
[23:41:49] <PCW> ok what does lspci -v show for the PCI parallel port
[23:42:53] <sharpen047> it shows a communication controller but im not sure if it is the onboard or not. it only shows one that i can see
[23:43:01] <r00t4rd3d> whats the last error or warning in dmesg
[23:43:07] <PCW> 500000 (0.5 ms) is pretty useless as is so you need to fix that if possible
[23:43:32] <sharpen047> any way to tell which one it is? well thats why i removed it from this pc and put it in the p4 machine we are troubleshooting:)
[23:43:44] <sharpen047> 6000 latency on this one
[23:44:02] <r00t4rd3d> disable the onboard parport in bios
[23:44:28] <sharpen047> .. nice thanks
[23:44:28] <sharpen047> brb
[23:44:29] <PCW> I think he wants both ports
[23:44:35] <r00t4rd3d> then config the mesa
[23:44:47] <r00t4rd3d> then reenable the onboard
[23:45:07] <r00t4rd3d> 1 at a time
[23:45:44] <r00t4rd3d> pcw you got a mesa proto i can play with?
[23:45:55] <PCW> probaby
[23:46:21] <PCW> we have some ratty cards about
[23:46:28] <r00t4rd3d> i would really like to see if I can benefit from one
[23:47:10] <r00t4rd3d> and so many people need help with them, once I learn something, i learn it.
[23:47:34] <PCW> if you are pushing step rates it will probably help
[23:48:43] <r00t4rd3d> pete, what do we have to say or do to get you to stop with the excessive punctuation?
[23:49:06] <r00t4rd3d> ive tried nice, tried mean, nothing.
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[23:50:25] <PCW> yeah he's got a period jones
[23:50:37] <Tom_itx> what's the purpose in punctuation on irc anyway?
[23:51:10] <r00t4rd3d> you answered that yourself
[23:51:14] <r00t4rd3d> ?
[23:51:45] <r00t4rd3d> the only thing i think is needed on irc is ! and ?
[23:51:58] <Tom_itx>
[23:52:12] <PCW> Dinner time!
[23:52:18] <sharpen047> PCW: ok looks like this is the pci card showing up in lspci it says netmos 9835 multi io controller (it has 1 db25 and 2 serial ports)symbios 0012 medium devsel irq16
[23:52:57] <PCW> addresses?
[23:53:16] <sharpen047> oi ports at 9400 98000 9c00 a000 a400 and a800
[23:53:18] <r00t4rd3d> hardware address is all the things
[23:53:21] <sharpen047> 9800*
[23:53:36] <sharpen047> kernel driver and module use parport_serial
[23:53:44] <PetefromTn> r00t4rd3d A better question is what will it take for you to get off my back dude. Whats your problem anyways.
[23:54:05] <r00t4rd3d> Ive explained it detail.
[23:54:26] <Tom_itx> too much detail
[23:54:28] <r00t4rd3d> and so have others
[23:54:30] <Tom_itx> carry on
[23:54:42] <sharpen047> PCW: in all the guides i see to tell which number it is it shows the 0xxxx number in lspci, mine doesnt
[23:56:19] <andypugh> 0xNNNN just means it's hex. Those numbers clearly are in Hex
[23:56:20] <r00t4rd3d> pastebin lshw
[23:56:22] <PetefromTn> Dunno what to tell ya man, I type the way I type. You made your point about the link issue, I guess you need to find other issues to bitch about huh.
[23:56:57] <sharpen047> so the hex for this card is 9400?
[23:57:06] <sharpen047> r00t4rd3d: ok
[23:57:08] <andypugh> 0x9400
[23:57:12] <r00t4rd3d> pastebin lshw
[23:58:01] <r00t4rd3d> ok pete, it annoys me and others. If you dont wish to be a part of the groupe and mesh with others, thats your gig.
[23:58:24] <PetefromTn> Oh I am part of the group whether you like it or not buddy.
[23:59:05] <Tom_itx> take it off channel and argue about it all you want
[23:59:08] <PetefromTn> honestly your posts have been annoying since I first got on here but I don't bash you about it.
[23:59:15] <Tom_itx> but leave it outta here