#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-04-16

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[00:32:48] <PetefromTn> ...
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[00:57:00] <tjb1> JT-Shop: got a job at hardinge
[00:57:59] <PetefromTn> REALLY??!! NICE...
[01:00:07] <PetefromTn> Just tried to reinstall my Y axis ballscrew cover into the Cincinatti Arrow 500 retrofit and found that at the rearmost travel the guard would hit the mounts for the motor leads.... Thankfully I was prepared for this eventuality thanks to my pal LEE who said it might be an issue so I creeped it back there and did not mangle anything YEAY!!! Just removed the cover and had to notch some out of the side of it and it seems to fit
[01:00:07] <PetefromTn> good now. Now I can reinstall the cover and test it for clearance and if it clears I can put the rest of the table covers back on the machine finally....
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[01:21:37] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... can I use an impact wrench (air) to drive normal screws?
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[01:24:40] <Tom_itx> if you wanna pop the heads off
[01:25:16] <pcw_home> I was about to say 'maybe once'
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[01:31:04] <LeelooMinai> Aha... any reason? I am googling and so far I think "probably"
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[01:31:15] <PetefromTn> Really I do it quite often, I have a 3/8 butterfly impact and have used it to drive larger lag bolts and other things into heavy wood before several times. Works a treat.
[01:32:08] <LeelooMinai> From what I have read the difference is mostly that wrench has more power and usually larger attachement
[01:32:21] <LeelooMinai> So ... should work, I guess...
[01:35:09] <pcw_home> I guess it depends on the size of the impact wrench and the screw
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[01:35:30] <PetefromTn> better yet is if you have a cordless drill with a clutch on it you can often set the clutch so you don't break the screw and drive away...
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[01:37:34] <pcw_home> Since I do mostly do electronics, when you say screw its 4-40 or 6-32 or 3mm/.5
[01:40:52] <LeelooMinai> Nah, my mom decided I need to put marble tiles in the bathroof floor and I though of using impact wrench do drive a lot of wood screws:)
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[01:45:28] <gammax> anything wrong with running steppers off a usb to parallel port converter?
[01:46:08] <pcw_home> no, unless you want more than a few hundred RPM
[01:47:05] <gammax> im lookin at max! 200 rpm
[01:47:34] <pcw_home> Possibly but not currently by linuxCNC
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[01:48:19] <gammax> pcw_home, what do you mean by last comment?
[01:49:24] <pcw_home> linuxCNC has no step driver for USB devices as its not very practical since linuxCNC sets the timing
[01:50:27] <pcw_home> and a USB device would add a 1 ms jitter to the step generation
[01:50:41] <pcw_home> (best case)
[01:51:02] <gammax> ahhh ok... I think I may go with this.. http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Parallel-PCI-Express-Brackets-SI-PEX50054/dp/B00B5L9PF4/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1366076976&sr=8-6&keywords=parallel+port+low+pci-e
[01:52:09] <pcw_home> Yes, that will have predictable timing...
[01:56:13] <gammax> whats best way to control vfd? I have http://www.ebay.com/itm/270759117884?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 that work?
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[02:00:58] <pcw_home> Yeah if you VFD supported by linuxCNCs Modbus interface
[02:01:22] <pcw_home> s/you/your/
[02:02:18] <gammax> hmmm
[02:03:03] <pcw_home> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?VFD_Modbus
[02:03:32] <gammax> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270873771567?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[02:03:39] <gammax> thats what i got
[02:04:12] <gammax> wait, i take that back. on the mill i have an sj200
[02:08:34] <r00t4rd3d> shocker, Saudi national under guard in the hospital with a leg wound from the blast in Boston.
[02:08:56] <gammax> what a suprise
[02:09:01] <r00t4rd3d> i know
[02:09:54] <r00t4rd3d> i think more then half of the 911 hijackers were saudi, lets invade iraq!
[02:11:13] <gammax> I gave up. Went to the stan and my contracting career is now over thank god!
[02:12:27] <r00t4rd3d> what?
[02:12:52] <r00t4rd3d> wrong chan maybe
[02:13:02] <gammax> lol no correct one]
[02:13:17] <gammax> i gave up caring about those people.... for good or for bad...
[02:15:11] <tjb1> sorry PetefromTn, yes
[02:15:14] <tjb1> elmira
[02:16:28] <PetefromTn> Cool....Good luck man
[02:16:42] <r00t4rd3d> thanks, he'll need it.
[02:19:11] <gammax> did I miss something?
[02:20:36] <r00t4rd3d> earlier convo
[02:23:33] <largecheesepuff> one problem down... pretty exciting
[02:24:03] <PetefromTn> Been working some more on this monster here today. My machine has an air pressure regulator/oiler on the back of the machine. It has a low pressure sensor in there too. Well the damn thing has a small petcock on the bottom of the plastic cup that you fill with line oil. The fitting has a leak that I cannot stand and I am about to rip the damn thing off the wall. The oring inside the fitting that seals to the plastic cup was
[02:24:03] <PetefromTn> kinda cruddy so I replaced it with a new one and it still leaks a bit. At first I thought the little plastic screw was the problem as it does not have an oring on it. Tried some teflon tape on the threads and it helped a little but the problem is actually between the cup and the outside fitting. I am giving up for tonight but tomorrow I will probably try to machine a plug that I can stick inside the tube and try to seal it up
[02:24:03] <PetefromTn> that way. I will lose the ability to bleed off but really the thing works by just filling it up and if I have to purge it I will just remove the entire cup.
[02:24:18] <PetefromTn> largecheesepuff: what problem is that?
[02:25:58] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: did you see earlier
[02:26:31] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: forward and reverse acting weird on the lathe
[02:26:58] <PetefromTn> largecheesepuff: define....wierd.
[02:28:11] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: at max of 2000 rpm M3 S500 worked but m4 s500 would run at 1500rpm
[02:28:16] <PetefromTn> Sweet lathe for sale in Clinton TN for a reasonable price I think... If I was not dead set on a CNC lathe I would be calling them right now.http://knoxville.craigslist.org/tls/3745161761.html
[02:28:38] <jdh> nice
[02:28:52] <PetefromTn> yep...
[02:28:54] <jdh> that's a lot of iron
[02:30:56] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: essentially scaling the analog encoder backwards
[02:31:12] <PetefromTn> largecheesepuff: The settings in my machine initially did not let the spindle run backwards despite my checking and verifying the outputs were correct. We found that the output was going negative and had to change the settings to only output positive numbers. Obviously not what your machine is doing but it points to the same direction. I would start by removing the output wires and verifying the output voltage is correctly
[02:31:12] <PetefromTn> scaled to your input selection
[02:31:51] <pcw_home> largecheesepuff: What hardware
[02:31:59] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: it's actually corrected PCW on the forums helped out
[02:32:04] <PetefromTn> jdh: Actually they are not really that big. They are probably one of the prettiest lathes ever made tho...
[02:32:17] <jdh> yeah, I've seen a few.
[02:32:22] <PetefromTn> Oh okay just trying to help...
[02:32:27] <jdh> 3000lbs is a lot of iron in that little package
[02:33:20] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: it was issues in the hal file. I just used pncconf to configure everything and it didn't seem to handle that correctly
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[02:34:16] <PetefromTn> largecheesepuff: Yeah I know we basically only used the PNCconf for the basic setup and then Connor was able to help me learn sorta how to find my way around in the hal and INI files. Once you understand that it is easier I think.
[02:34:23] <largecheesepuff> PetefromTn: I still need to trouble shoot the spindle encoder which isn't work but I'm saving that for tomorrow
[02:34:28] <PetefromTn> jdh: yeahh man sure is...
[02:35:06] <largecheesepuff> err sp work/working
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[02:35:27] <PetefromTn> largecheesepuff: That's my basic philosophy on this build, take it one circuit and step at a time. What's the old adage, how do you eat an Elephant.....one bite at a time LOL.
[02:36:14] <largecheesepuff> yeah, I finally managed to start wrapping my head around tool setup on gang tool style lathe
[02:36:21] <pcw_home> largecheesepuff: You might mention this pncconf issue in the
[02:36:23] <pcw_home> pncconf section of the forum (need add unipolar analog spindle out option)
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[02:36:35] <pcw_home> need to add
[02:36:38] <largecheesepuff> over the weekend, after reading for hours.
[02:36:59] <PetefromTn> Yeah don't ya just use tool offsets in multiple axes?
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[02:37:29] <sparr> Are there open source slicing/toolpath programs that can handle more than 3 axes of motion? Particularly for machines with a table that can tilt?
[02:38:00] <largecheesepuff> pcw_home: Yeah, I'll mention it on the forums.
[02:43:50] <PetefromTn> Anyone ever heard of using a hot water heater element as an braking resistor for a VFD? I heard it will work actually and was considering trying it for my VFD> Elements are like $25.00 and the braking resistors I need are in the $150.00 range....
[02:44:39] <largecheesepuff> it's a high wattage resistor
[02:44:57] <largecheesepuff> harder thing is finding the correct ohms but that is easy enough to calculate
[02:45:01] <PetefromTn> Yes I suppose it is...
[02:45:15] <pcw_home> A stove top element works also
[02:45:16] <PetefromTn> Yeah my pal Art has already done that for me for the most part.
[02:45:29] <PetefromTn> Pete have you ever seen one used that way?
[02:45:36] <pcw_home> Yes
[02:45:58] <PetefromTn> Just how hot do they get would you say for a spindle brake setup?
[02:46:21] <PetefromTn> We talking glowing red here or just dissipating some heat and then quickly cooling.
[02:46:25] <pcw_home> They work fine but you need a cage to prevent accidental comtact
[02:46:35] <largecheesepuff> seems easy
[02:47:00] <largecheesepuff> you can always add a fan if needed to dump more heat
[02:47:02] <pcw_home> never glowing red, but definately a burn hazard
[02:47:19] <PetefromTn> Actually there is a cage in the machine already that I initially removed to make into my computer enclosure. I have since installed the computer up front so I can reinstall that if need be.
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[02:48:24] <PetefromTn> Also was considering drilling some holes into the electronics enclosure and installing the resistor on the outside of the cabinet between it and the mill column inside some kinda steel cage. That would keep the heat out of the electronics cabinet...
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[02:50:11] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: You mentioned SRL32s the other night, mind if I pick your brain a tad?
[02:50:21] <PetefromTn> Won't a traditional braking resistor create similar heat? I mean the energy has to go somewhere and that is what a resistor does after all, bleed off energy in the form of heat. Maybe it is not as efficient at heating up as the element would be?
[02:50:43] <pcw_home> The energy will be the same
[02:52:05] <pcw_home> excess kinetic energy dumped into heat (same heat as a brake doing the same job)
[02:52:17] <FinboySlick> pcw_home: Documentation speaks of 32bit input and width up to 1024bits.
[02:52:47] <pcw_home> Big fancy drives dump it back into the power lines
[02:53:08] <PetefromTn> So in your opinion the heat created for the same amount of energy dump will be the same regardless of the resistor then?
[02:53:16] <pcw_home> Yes
[02:53:36] <PetefromTn> LOL I thought I bought a big fancy drive, I mean it is a Hitachi 15HP!!
[02:53:41] <pcw_home> A higher value resistor will take longer
[02:54:16] <pcw_home> VFDs get very big
[02:54:17] <PetefromTn> So therein lies the importance of proper sizing...
[02:54:20] <L84Supper> pcw_home: any news on a Zynq FPGA + PCIe + DDR3 board?
[02:54:49] <PetefromTn> yes they do I was just kidding. I've seen motors and VFDs in the hundred of HP range online...
[02:55:02] <pcw_home> working on it (though no PCIE)
[02:55:32] <PetefromTn> Whats the difference between PCI and PCIE?
[02:55:40] <L84Supper> have they announced pricing yet on the Zynq parts?
[02:55:46] <pcw_home> Too low a value will overload the braking transistor
[02:56:25] <pcw_home> Ive seen some leaked info (Avnet posted prices then removed them)
[02:56:56] <L84Supper> http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/DK-Z7-VIDEO-G.htm 5 week lead time for this board
[02:59:42] <L84Supper> http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/EK-Z7-ZC706-G.htm only 2 weeks on the eval kit
[03:01:24] <PetefromTn> Yeah I will speak with Art about it, unless you have some ideas about proper sizing. Basically I have a 270 volt 5.5kw motor 7.5HP and I think it is 18.5 amps at 50/60hz. We will of course be at 60...
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[03:02:59] <pcw_home> input voltage?
[03:03:43] <PetefromTn> 220vac
[03:04:00] <PetefromTn> Sorry..
[03:06:25] <PetefromTn> I am looking to get an edge finder to use until I can get a proper probe built or bought for the machine, Was considering using one of the 3/4 shank electronic edge finders temporarily until I can get something better. Something like this...http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRECISION-ELECTRONIC-DIGITAL-EDGE-FINDER-CNC-MILLING-/330518419131?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf46ed6bb.
[03:08:24] <pcw_home> the brake resistor runs off the DC bus which will be about 320V
[03:08:26] <pcw_home> so the power in the load will be about twice what it is at 220 VAC
[03:08:27] <pcw_home> so a 2 KW 220V heater will dissipate about 4 -5 KW when on
[03:08:29] <gammax> what guage wire would you guys use for a 25ft run to a cnc lathe?
[03:09:06] <gammax> vfd in there connected to motor
[03:09:28] <PetefromTn> What size motor and what is the total amperage...
[03:09:42] <gammax> 1.5
[03:09:47] <gammax> total amps unk...
[03:09:54] <gammax> im assuming under 10 though...
[03:10:03] <L84Supper> #12
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[03:10:24] <PetefromTn> Pete, so if I find an element that is 2kw 220 I should be fine then?
[03:10:51] <pcw_home> Yes
[03:10:56] <gammax> you guys talking about breakin resistors?
[03:11:24] <pcw_home> we ain't breakin no resistos
[03:11:40] <gammax> lol
[03:11:49] <gammax> I need to choose one...
[03:12:51] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... is there a way one can cut at home 1/4 inch structural steel angle? :)
[03:13:24] <PetefromTn> Silly question, can I go TOO BIG? I mean will a larger one dissipate the heat better there is a 5.5kw one at Home depot for like $20.00
[03:13:40] <PetefromTn> sure hacksaw...LOL
[03:13:52] <PetefromTn> Just better workout your arms first...
[03:13:57] <LeelooMinai> I was just going to add - without spanding a day hacksawing it:)
[03:14:34] <PetefromTn> You can buy one of the cheap chinese 4x6 bandsaws and they work pretty good.
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[03:15:00] <gammax> LeelooMinai, plasma cutter...
[03:15:05] <pcw_home> The VFD should have a minimum resistance/max current spec
[03:15:06] <gammax> angle grinder...
[03:15:08] <PetefromTn> You can also get an abrasive chop saw but they are loud, create a ton of heat, and usually mushroom the metal.
[03:15:16] <LeelooMinai> I have a bandsaw... But I am pretty sure that the band it has is only for wood
[03:15:29] <PetefromTn> Angle grinder with cutoff wheel would work but take forever.....
[03:15:31] <gammax> LeelooMinai, try and find out :)
[03:15:59] <PetefromTn> Wood bandsaw won't work you will melt the tires on the wheels and wind up breaking your saw...
[03:16:04] <gammax> PetefromTn, I disagree... a quality cutoff wheel not Harbor friehgt would slice through it pretty fast...
[03:16:13] <LeelooMinai> Well, I guess I will leave it to metal market to cut it. Though they wrote me that they can cut only as accurate as the tape measure they have... which is supposedly 1/8 inch
[03:16:27] <PetefromTn> gammax: He said 1/4 inch thick angle.....
[03:16:40] <gammax> I know lol
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[03:16:41] <LeelooMinai> I am not a "he" btw
[03:16:42] <PetefromTn> I said it would cut it but take awhile and eat up some disks...
[03:17:07] <gammax> LeelooMinai, your a he/she?
[03:17:09] <PetefromTn> Ooh do tell, nice to meet ya leeloo...
[03:17:14] <LeelooMinai> I have some of those disks and a grinder, but, I don't think that would create a nice cut:)
[03:17:36] <gammax> if you had a nice chop saw...
[03:17:59] <gammax> had one at the power plant I used to work at... had a chain to hold the peice down and then the sparks flew
[03:18:00] <LeelooMinai> I have mitre saw and I bough alu blade, but that's for non-ferrous metals
[03:18:07] <PetefromTn> Just do yourself a favor and take it to a welder or metal supplier and have them cut it for you...
[03:18:33] <PetefromTn> If you were close I would cut it for you LOL
[03:18:43] <LeelooMinai> Initially IO planned to build my cnc frame from alu only, but recently I reconsidered and now it will be mixed alu/steel, but all I can do with steel is drill holes:)
[03:19:01] <PetefromTn> So leeloo from the fifth element?
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[03:19:26] <LeelooMinai> Right, that's the nick I had for years
[03:19:29] <pcw_home> big bada boom
[03:19:45] <PetefromTn> How cool is a chick that builds CNC routers and stuff....
[03:19:47] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... I guess I will let them cut the steel parts and try not to rely on their length
[03:20:10] <PetefromTn> If they are worth their salt they SHOULD be able to cut it accurately....
[03:20:16] <gammax> leeloo why not replace band saw blade?
[03:20:24] <PetefromTn> Multipass....
[03:20:58] <LeelooMinai> gammax: Well, to be honest cutting like 4inch angle with bandaw scares me a bit:)
[03:21:28] <LeelooMinai> I would save only few dollars probably per piece
[03:21:41] <LeelooMinai> Maybe it's not a good idea...
[03:21:46] <gammax> LeelooMinai, im a do it yourselfer..
[03:22:07] <LeelooMinai> I am too, but there must be a line somewhere:)
[03:22:09] <PetefromTn> Best probably to look on craigslist for a used metal cutting bandsaw for cheap I see them all the time. You will use it a LOT if you are building a machine...
[03:22:56] <gammax> I picked up a horizontal/vertical with new blade for 20 bucks in california! lol all I had to do was tighten everything up!
[03:22:57] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn: My plan was using my mitre saw + this nice alu cutting blade I bought to handle all the aluminum parts - beams mostly
[03:23:33] <gammax> LeelooMinai, cant you just attache a huge grinding wheel to it?
[03:24:08] <LeelooMinai> Hmm... to 8.5inch mitre saw? :)
[03:24:23] <LeelooMinai> http://i.imgur.com/FHhriVz.png <- I am still designing the frame, but this is more or less the plan
[03:24:24] <PetefromTn> LeelooMinai: I have cut a lot of metal and while you can cut aluminum with a wood cutting mitre box it is less than ideal and not a little dangerous. The metal cutting saws are usually slower moving blades and have safety guards in place for the chips.
[03:25:29] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn: Hmm... I thought aluminum is not that hard and this blade is carbide-tipped and good brand
[03:26:19] <gammax> LeelooMinai, ive cut aluminum with many differant type of saw... prolly not the safest but when I did.... I always used a type of grease to cut it....
[03:26:32] <LeelooMinai> Cutting oil probably
[03:26:36] <PetefromTn> LeelooMinai: It is not that hard depending on the alloy I am just saying it is a higher speed saw and will not be pleasant to use while you are cutting with it. It will probably throw hot chips all around and it sucks..
[03:26:41] <LeelooMinai> I read about those few weeks ago
[03:27:04] <PetefromTn> Where are you located?
[03:27:14] <LeelooMinai> Canada/Ontario
[03:27:20] <gammax> ehhh
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[03:28:30] <LeelooMinai> PetefromTn: Maybe I will do the cutting on the deck outside and protect myself somehow
[03:29:20] <LeelooMinai> I could look into those saw bands, but I thought a mitre saw blade would create more flat cuts (?)
[03:29:52] <PetefromTn> Check out your local chinese tool supplier busybee or something like that I think and see if they have that small bandsaw... you will wind up loving it and it is much safer and can cut steel or aluminum with ease and relatively precisely if you set it up right...
[03:30:24] <LeelooMinai> Right, thx, I will investiage this
[03:32:35] <PetefromTn> Good luck Leeloo dallas multipass...
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[03:43:38] <PetefromTn> gammax: Here is a little wire gauge help....https://www.icmag.com/modules/Tutorials/ElectricalSafety/1655.htm
[03:44:24] <gammax> nice thanks
[03:46:39] <gammax> anyone have a wiring scematic for a hardinge hc? :)
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[03:59:36] <r00t4rd3d> holy fuck there is some nasty pictures of that boston shit
[04:00:03] <r00t4rd3d> NSF-ANYTHING!!!!! http://imgur.com/a/IuEDd
[04:00:12] <r00t4rd3d> dont look if you dont like that kinda stuff
[04:03:27] <r00t4rd3d> not that i like that kinda stuff but i can stomach it
[04:03:46] <r00t4rd3d> while eating pasta
[04:04:56] <r00t4rd3d> everyone having a smart phone with a decent camera in it sure has changed the world
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[04:36:32] <gammax> r00t4rd3d, pretty sick!
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[05:16:28] <zultron> logger[mah],
[05:16:29] <logger[mah]> zultron: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2013-04-16.html
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[06:17:45] <Spida> </win 23
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[06:23:04] <gammax> anyone familiar with breaking resistors?
[06:23:15] <gammax> for vfd's specificly?
[06:26:17] <largecheesepuff> think there was that discussion earlier
[06:28:56] <gammax> dang... Need to know which one to get on ebay! lol
[06:32:45] <archivist> read the manual for your vfd
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[08:00:13] <RussCnC> this is a test
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[08:09:44] <archivist> luk phail
[08:09:47] <archivist> lurk
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[08:53:47] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:42:00] <r00t4rd3d> meow
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[12:02:36] <L84Supper> http://www.electroarc.com/compactportable.cfm downsize these and you have a raygun
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[12:21:00] <PetefromTn> Good morning fellow CNC junkies....!!
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[12:22:50] <jdh> 'junkies' has such a negative connotation
[12:22:53] <jdh> but, yeah.
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[12:33:45] <skunkworks> a bit newer than ours.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kearney-Trecker-CNC-machining-center-/350701233408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a76c2500
[12:40:55] <jthornton> 7 days till SpyderFest http://www.spyderfest.com/
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[12:44:03] <PetefromTn> jdh: lol yup im a cnc junkie but if you prefer afficionado...
[12:44:18] <jthornton> that does read better
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[14:39:19] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GBLjLrnwlig neat! =)
[14:39:21] <Tecan> (GBLjLrnwlig) "INCRA Precision Marking Rules" by "incratools" is "Howto" - Length: 0:01:33
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[14:41:11] <mrsun> now if i only could find those on ebay or something in metric format :P
[14:41:18] <Tom_itx> that is prety cool
[14:41:24] <Tom_itx> come in thousandths?
[14:41:52] <mrsun> :P
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[14:42:49] <mrsun> that one would be neat for non precision building, where you want some accuracy but hundreths of mm isnt nessecery =)
[14:43:23] <Tom_itx> it says 0 - 6" but shows a 12" rule
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[14:44:32] <Tom_itx> about as easy as making a good solder stencil
[14:44:33] <cradek> those are ok for woodwork if you work in fractions
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[14:46:31] <cradek> I have one (it was a gift maybe?) but have never used it, because I never do anything in 16ths/32nds
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[14:52:37] <PetefromTn> Those incra items are very very nice. Having worked professionally in a high end cabinetry and woodworking arena I have used a lot of their products and can vouch for their precision. Their router table fences are very nice and pretty well thought out. That laser cut ruler could come in real handy for metalworking fabrication too with the scribe and layout of cut parts.
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[14:57:31] <PetefromTn> Gonna install my new braking resistor to my spindle drive this morning and test it out.....
[14:59:07] <carper64_lb> hi folk
[14:59:34] <PetefromTn> hey carp...
[15:00:22] <jdh> how big?
[15:01:01] <jdh> I have some 1.5ohm 600w ones I use for burn testing batteries
[15:01:12] <jdh> guess 600 might be too small for a brake
[15:01:27] <PetefromTn> 2500 watt 240v...
[15:01:53] <jdh> just get 25 100 watt light bulbs!
[15:02:54] <PetefromTn> went to the pawn shop on the way home and picked up a sweet right angle die grinder for $15.00.... Got tired of having to swap the cutoff wheel out of my straight shank die grinder for my surface prep disk all the time LOL...
[15:03:27] <PetefromTn> Yeah 25 watt light bulbs LOL...that would work if I could use it to light the enclosure but it would probably dim and bright with the spindle speed LOL...
[15:03:40] <carper64_lb> yep pete ive got to setup my lathe this week not looking forward to it it using a 5I20 a7I47 and 7I42ta mesa cards but its running steppers with encoders
[15:05:31] <PetefromTn> carper64_lb: good luck man....Mesa rocks!
[15:08:09] <carper64_lb> yep i love the cards had it setup once but that was without the encoders on the axis from what i understand settingup stepperswith encoders can be a problem
[15:08:29] <jdh> what lathe?
[15:09:23] <carper64_lb> its denford orac
[15:09:59] <PetefromTn> Denford look like nice stuff...
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[15:10:37] <PetefromTn> This little Angle die grinder kicks butt.... It has front venting so it is different from my other one sounds different... NICE!!
[15:10:57] <carper64_lb> encoders are 2500 count with indexing
[15:12:09] <Connor> Your doing encoders on steppers ?
[15:12:34] <jdh> or encoders on spindle
[15:12:51] <carper64_lb> yep encoders on steppers
[15:13:15] <Connor> All that's going to do from what I've read is tell you if you miss steps..
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[15:13:34] <jdh> I need a pair of nema11 or 17 for my new lathe
[15:14:32] <carper64_lb> i read somewhere that you can get it to position to the encoder feed back
[15:14:57] <Connor> I dunno.. I've not done it.. things may have changed.
[15:17:20] <carper64_lb> then after ive got the lathe sorted i have a dnford easimill standing ready for conversion the card of that is the 5I22
[15:18:51] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, mike_kilroy is so excited about the mach setup he is helping with... Can you imagine running your machine with mach?
[15:19:04] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: NOPE....
[15:19:07] <carper64_lb> the mill is gong to 5 axs with encoders if the lathe is sucsessful
[15:19:40] <carper64_lb> nop ive looked at mach to limited on what you can do wth it
[15:19:41] <PetefromTn> carper64_lb: you need to check out those new servosteppers they have now. Basically it is what you are talking about....
[15:20:19] <PetefromTn> Mach3 is fine but after seeing and using both now I pick LinuxCNC every time. Especially when you consider it is free LOL...
[15:21:51] <skunkworks> heh
[15:22:41] <carper64_lb> i have mach but never run it looked at both bits of sooooftware before i did the update to the lathe to deside wat to use
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[15:24:11] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, your z axis isn't counterbalanced?
[15:24:35] <carper64_lb> it just finding my way round linux thats the big problem but getting there with help lol
[15:24:37] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: nope....never was
[15:24:42] <skunkworks> darn
[15:25:33] <PetefromTn> carper64_lb: yeah I hear ya it is definitely not as EASY as mach3 since it is mostly programming type stuff but it is way more configurable and open source so you can make it do about anything...rigid tap is cool too...
[15:26:12] <PetefromTn> skunkworks: actually it wored pretty good like that for many years now so why fight it. The ballscrew is 8mm...
[15:26:56] * JT-Shop never could get Mack to work... the screens made me get temp blindness
[15:27:01] <skunkworks> nice. - I am sure it will work just fine.
[15:27:56] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/conversion/xaxis/ballscrew.JPG
[15:29:24] <PetefromTn> jeez thats a big bastard isn't it LOL...
[15:30:24] <carper64_lb> the price of harmonic drives ar frightening i was going to use hem on the forth and fifth axis on the mill
[15:30:34] <carper64_lb> them
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[15:32:12] <PetefromTn> yeah you can occasionally find a deal on the bay but not often LOL...
[15:37:12] <pcw_home> PetefromTn: a 1500W 240V element is around 38 Ohms, a 2350W one about 24 Ohms (in case the VFD specs a minimum resistor size)
[15:38:53] <Connor> PetefromTn: It possible the Axis Drivers have a setting like the VFD did for the back EMF ?
[15:38:54] <PetefromTn> pcw_home: Thanks man I went with a 2500 watt 240v unit which SHOULD be around 23 ohms and the minimum is 20 according to the manuf..
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[15:39:26] <PetefromTn> Connor: yeah man good morning, they do and it is actually already set to 3 which is use the internal resistor unfortunately...
[15:39:53] <Connor> okay, so, it's just not big enough.
[15:40:52] <PetefromTn> dunno really I honestly don't think we have it tuned right yet. Still have not messed with the DRIVE'S tuning....
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[15:46:51] <pcw_home> It may be easier to tune the Z Axis in torque mode
[15:46:52] <pcw_home> (since the PID loops BIAS term is equivalent to
[15:46:54] <pcw_home> constant torque to counterbalance the weight)
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[15:50:00] <skunkworks> PetefromTn, I think mike_kilroy thinks you are going to use the vfd for positioning the spindle or something...
[15:50:00] <carper64_lb> this is my orac refit http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=3782&p=14407#p14407
[15:50:20] <skunkworks> (running the encoder to the vfd..)
[15:51:32] <Connor> We DO need the encoder for orientating the spindle for toolchange.
[15:51:48] <skunkworks> right - but I assume you are going to use linuxcnc.
[15:51:55] <Connor> correct
[15:52:33] <skunkworks> Other than your magic mask circuit for the index. :)
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[15:52:42] <Connor> yea.
[15:53:06] <sparr> Are there open source slicing/toolpath programs that can handle more than 3 axes of motion? Particularly for machines with a table that can tilt
[15:53:19] <Connor> I think we're going to do differential for A & B.. He has enough wires in the cable for it..
[15:53:40] <Connor> Index will be single ended.. into my mask circuit.
[15:53:59] <skunkworks> then differential?
[15:54:10] <Connor> nah.
[15:54:26] <Connor> unless you can't do that...
[15:54:40] <skunkworks> (I am wondering how you are going to interface that to the mesa card.. I though it is either single ended or differential..
[15:55:00] <carper64_lb> all this hassle just so i can build 1/6th scale radial engines
[15:55:01] <skunkworks> for a,b,z
[15:55:05] <Connor> pcw_home: may have to weigh in on that..
[15:55:10] <skunkworks> right
[15:55:40] <Connor> If it's all or nothing.. We'll wire ALL the connectors up from get go.. and then do single ended to start with then.
[15:56:19] <PetefromTn> Yeesh this is making my head hurt LOL....
[15:56:56] <Connor> I could make a differential circuit using two optos.. I would need pulls ups on the +index though.
[15:57:02] <skunkworks> be carful - I had issues going >10ft with single ended..
[15:58:46] <L84Supper> sparr: you mention slicing, is this for GGG?
[15:59:24] <sparr> L84Supper: no idea what GGG is
[15:59:35] <L84Supper> glorified glue gun
[16:00:04] <sparr> yes, give or take. no one in the 3d printing community has anything like it, but if I can find software meant for a 4-6 axis cutting device I could probably make it work for a 4-6 axis additive device
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[16:00:58] <L84Supper> sparr: there's is nothing open source for CAM yet, we are discussing it since we make multi-axis 3d printers
[16:01:16] <L84Supper> open source foe CAM with more than 3 -axis i should say
[16:01:18] <Connor> PetefromTn: I might need the encoder to do some testing with my circuit..
[16:01:24] <sparr> yeah, that's what I thought
[16:01:25] <sparr> thanks
[16:01:41] <Connor> I would like to bread board it first if possible.
[16:01:43] <L84Supper> sparr: PyCAM is only 3, and it's really slow right now
[16:02:04] <sparr> HeeksCAM is the one I've used
[16:02:14] <zultron> L84Supper, which version of PyCAM are you using?
[16:02:14] <PetefromTn> Connor: thats fine man....
[16:02:17] <sparr> also only 3
[16:02:37] <L84Supper> sparr: there are lots of 3d printers out there that you never hear about in reprap
[16:02:41] <Connor> It's already assembled so you can spin the encoder disk freely ?
[16:03:01] <L84Supper> sparr: multi-axis nozzle and inkjet has been around for quite some time
[16:03:59] <L84Supper> zultron: whatever is up on the website
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[16:04:13] <L84Supper> Heeks is dead
[16:04:24] <L84Supper> the project, not the man :)
[16:04:50] <sparr> L84Supper: multi-axis as in more than 3? I deal with a lot of hobby printers that aren't related to the reprap community
[16:05:01] <L84Supper> sparr: the toolpaths are the same for 4+ axis GGG
[16:05:05] <sparr> my current project uses a ShapeOko as its base
[16:05:21] <L84Supper> yeah, we make 4,5 or more
[16:05:34] <sparr> yeah, I've used subtractive CAM software to make additive toolpaths before, I'm familiar with the equivalence
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[16:05:49] <L84Supper> working on one now with 5-axis + more 2-axis for the laser
[16:06:30] <L84Supper> sparr: we are working with Seimens now to get some additive capabilities into NX CAM
[16:06:44] <zultron> L84Supper, the git version is MUCH faster. Someone did a bunch of work on it a year ago.
[16:07:05] <L84Supper> but open source for 4-5 axis PyCAM might be ready this summer
[16:08:10] <L84Supper> zultron: 0.5.1 or more recent?
[16:09:15] <L84Supper> CAM for 4-5+ axis additive manufacturing hadn't really occurred to anyone yet
[16:11:47] <L84Supper> sparr: the printers we build integrate stages like these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Ig_Dk9pbA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
[16:13:48] <L84Supper> MasterCAM had no idea that 3d printing would need CAM
[16:15:00] <sparr> ...
[16:15:05] <sparr> not sure what that even means
[16:15:21] <sparr> 3-axis CAM is the same for 3d printing or milling
[16:15:33] <L84Supper> similar yes
[16:15:58] <L84Supper> but different since you're adding vs cutting, and the tools are different
[16:16:28] <L84Supper> inkjet head vs end mill for example
[16:16:36] <carper64_lb> could do with a 3d printer to priiiint £coins to finance my other cnc projects
[16:17:44] <L84Supper> sparr: CAM is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-aided_manufacturing it's used to create the G-code, toolpaths for the machine tool or simulation
[16:17:50] <sparr> I know that
[16:18:20] <carper64_lb> i use camworks
[16:18:23] <L84Supper> MasterCAM is http://www.mastercam.com/
[16:18:37] <sparr> consider an object. To build that object additively with an extruder that produces a particular width/depth of material per pass the gcode is identical to milling the negative of that object with an end mill of that same width and depth per pass
[16:18:48] <carper64_lb> quiet like delcam too
[16:18:51] <sparr> identical except it's backwards :)
[16:19:07] <L84Supper> usre, if you're using a single nozzle extruder/glue gun
[16:19:18] <L84Supper> sure/usre
[16:20:18] <L84Supper> a single nozzle glue gun, just a small subset of the tech available for additive manufacturing
[16:21:22] <L84Supper> what the tech needs is CAM to cover many types of deposition vs just glue guns
[16:21:49] <sparr> multiple additive tools, multiple subtractive tools
[16:21:52] <sparr> doesn't seem that big a difference
[16:21:55] <carper64_lb> glue gun from what ive seen of the extruder head they are using 0.2mm with abs plastic
[16:22:24] <L84Supper> sparr: but nobody has written it yet, and the major vendors are just getting to know about it
[16:22:29] <sparr> .2 to .5mm are common nozzles, with extrusion cross sections around 125% that wide. ABS and PLA are the most popular plastics to print
[16:22:43] <L84Supper> sparr: write something for PyCAM, lots of people will use it
[16:23:32] <L84Supper> the GGG fad will pass once better tech makes it to market for <$2K
[16:23:55] <L84Supper> most of the old patents are expiring so it's a good time to start on CAM
[16:25:11] <sparr> I expect GGG will remain the cheapest for plenty more years
[16:25:45] <sparr> $1500 SLA printers are coming, but SLA has negatives that FDM(GGG) doesn't, and a $300 printer will always beat a $1500 printer in some markets
[16:26:28] <sparr> I don't know of anyone working on hobby/cheap powder+binder printers like zcorp's designs, probably because their patents haven't expired yet?
[16:26:33] <carper64_lb> yep it tends to be buil a 3d printer to prit the parts for an improved printer a friend has been been workin on his version of a printer for some week now and is using zirconia ceramic for the extruder
[16:27:03] <WalterN> lasers are cooler
[16:27:12] <sparr> the b9 printers, SLA with lasers or projectors, are the most hobby-level alternatives right now, and still far from affordable
[16:28:12] <carper64_lb> yep i think the sintered way is better usng the laser to fuse th particals together
[16:28:18] <L84Supper> sparr: they are actually cheaper to manufacture than a 3 axis glue gun
[16:28:25] <L84Supper> inkjet is lower as well
[16:29:11] <L84Supper> laser diodes prices are dropping like rocks, and there are $100 galvos
[16:29:13] <WalterN> carper64_lb: more material options
[16:29:49] <carper64_lb> yes walter i totally agree
[16:29:52] <L84Supper> the MIT patent for inkjet + binder has expired
[16:30:45] <L84Supper> sparr: most will come out of China where it's most cost efficient to manufacture
[16:31:35] <L84Supper> they are just ramping up now, $100's of millions being invested into building tech centers to make printers
[16:31:46] <sparr> L84Supper: 3 axis glue gun costs are coming down. $350 for a working printer is the price point du jour, and it will only get lower from there
[16:32:17] <carper64_lb> when they get to the stage where they can print an engine that runs then ill think about 3 d printing
[16:32:25] <L84Supper> sparr: for small bed and it's really slow with limited materials
[16:32:48] <L84Supper> SLA is 10-100x faster
[16:32:50] <sparr> carper64_lb: shapeways can print in aluminum, at higher quality and precision than casting... I expect you could make a small working engine if you wanted, using tech they already have
[16:33:05] <sparr> SLA, whether with laser or printer, is going to need a lot more work on materials before it's a good alternative to FDM.
[16:33:12] <sparr> SLA parts look pretty, but they aren't functional
[16:33:30] <sparr> you can *use* parts from a FDM printer
[16:33:42] <Connor> PetefromTn: The encoder mounted? or is that mocked up ?
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[16:33:58] <L84Supper> sparr: not sure what your background is but photopolymers and composites are functional
[16:34:14] <PetefromTn> Connor: you mean the pics of Lees machine?
[16:34:15] <PetefromTn> ifso mounted and working...
[16:34:25] <Connor> Oh, Is that Lee's ?
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[16:34:47] <WalterN> L84Supper: oh yeah, when I'm done making the actual SLS machine, do I have to make some special software to work with linuxCNC?
[16:34:57] <L84Supper> GGG has it's place where you need a extruded material at slow speed
[16:35:39] <Connor> PetefromTn: Was looking at the pictures.. not the text.. ROFL. :)
[16:35:45] <L84Supper> WalterN: depends on your mechanics
[16:35:51] <carper64_lb> i think 3d printing at th moment is great idea for producing plugs for sand casting
[16:35:57] <PetefromTn> trying to figure out what terminals to hook this braking resistor to on the drive...
[16:36:04] <L84Supper> WalterN: galvo or Cartesian system?
[16:36:07] <sparr> L84Supper: I don't know why hobby SLA machines aren't using functional materials, but they aren't. The stuff coming out of the b9 is rigid and brittle (and pretty!)
[16:36:12] <WalterN> L84Supper: either
[16:37:02] <L84Supper> sparr: the B9 uses a resin made a guy in Spain, it's a cheap acrylate
[16:37:19] <sparr> are there patents or secret formulas for the materials being used in professional SLA machines?
[16:37:28] <sparr> I really don't know
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[16:37:38] <sparr> I can't say *why* hobby SLA uses crap material, but it does
[16:38:00] <L84Supper> sparr: the major SLA vendors have been mostly sitting on their patents
[16:38:36] <L84Supper> B9 just ships cheap acrylates made by SpotA in Spain
[16:38:44] <L84Supper> he doesn't care
[16:40:05] <Connor> Looks like he's not running differential either.. just single ended..
[16:40:14] <L84Supper> sparr: the commercial SLA vendors sell $10/L resin for $400/L because they can
[16:40:43] <sparr> until that's not the case, SLA won't be suitable for hobbyists to print functional parts
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[16:41:11] <PetefromTn> yup I thought I told you that... Anyone on the wj200 braking resistor wiring terminals?
[16:41:14] <sparr> and until SLA printers are <$500, FDM printers will continue to be the most popular with hobbyists
[16:41:15] <L84Supper> it's already happening in China
[16:41:55] <sparr> a GGG printer will be available at walmart or best buy for $200 at some point in the next couple of years
[16:42:01] <L84Supper> hobby SLA is a really small market, same for the GGG printers
[16:42:34] <sparr> not much smaller than the market for 2d cnc cutters, like the craftrobo or cricut
[16:42:47] <L84Supper> I'd beg to differ, I'd say inkjet, SLA or a combination of the two will be the consumer version soon
[16:43:22] <sparr> too expensive
[16:43:23] <WalterN> L84Supper: so yeah, what kind of system will I need to go from a 3D model to lasering the 3D object together with galvos?
[16:43:43] <PetefromTn> I'm thinking RB and N/ the other too terminals have a large shunt across them....dunno what that is for really...
[16:43:50] <Connor> PetefromTn: Pulling down the manual.. give me just a few.
[16:43:58] <L84Supper> printers for plastic, toys, game pieces and spoons that take 4 hours to print won't be very popular for long
[16:44:27] <carper64_lb> damn just dropped the plug iam making for a 1/6 scale f16 fuselage and broke it
[16:44:43] <PetefromTn> Sure man.... Looks like PG 14 PDF gives the best picture of the wj200 terminals on my 5.5kw + drive...
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[16:46:04] <carper64_lb> oh well looks like ill be busy for next cpl of day repairing it
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[16:46:29] <L84Supper> a 3-axis system with extruder BOM icost s higher than a inkjet or SLA
[16:46:38] <sparr> is the B9 the cheapest SLA printer right now? $2000 or so, I think?
[16:46:50] <pcw_home> why would you use a galvanometer instead of a scanning prism?
[16:47:09] <sparr> I don't even know what inkjet printers cost right now; I haven't seen any on the hobby market. I've seen secondhand zcorp printers for $4000.
[16:47:34] <L84Supper> sparr: in the west
[16:48:00] <pcw_home> I guess its more chary with laser power but at a significant cost
[16:48:12] <sparr> there are GGG printers on the market, assembled, for $400
[16:49:04] <sparr> L84Supper: "4 hours" is hyperbole. something like a spoon will print on a GGG printer in a few minutes
[16:49:43] <L84Supper> sparr: I'd just say that I wouldn't put too much faith into GGG as more than a novelty
[16:50:07] <sparr> if you're talking about 10 years from now... sure, maybe another technology will have come down in cost enough to be appropriate for consumers
[16:50:13] <sparr> I'm talking about this year, next year
[16:50:37] <L84Supper> sparr: we use extruders as well, only in limited applications for a few materials to supplement inkjet or SLA
[16:51:00] <L84Supper> sparr: nah, year or so
[16:51:53] <carper64_lb> if i was to build a 3d printer it would only be for printing in wax for casting
[16:52:07] <L84Supper> already taking off in China, once the factories kick in the prices will drop even lower
[16:52:17] <sparr> "taking off in china"...
[16:52:26] <L84Supper> it's all a race to the bottom
[16:52:36] <sparr> do you have a single video of a working product? any links to anything for sale, even if it's only for sale within china?
[16:52:46] <carper64_lb> not alot of info about wax printing on the net
[16:53:36] <sparr> carper64_lb: when richrap was doing his chocolate and frosting extruders he made one that uses solid sticks of chocolate and a hot end to melt it on demand. I expect that design would work for wax, and it would definitely be a glorified glue gun :)
[16:53:36] <L84Supper> sparr: checkout the 3d printer conference videos, the next one is in Beijing next month
[16:54:23] <pcw_home> probably need to compound the wax so it has a larger plastic range (or melt and spray it)
[16:54:44] <L84Supper> pcw_home: yeah, hotmelts are available in a wide range
[16:54:59] <L84Supper> the GGG printer folks haven't realized this yet
[16:55:04] <sparr> carper64_lb: check out http://richrap.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/universal-paste-extruder-ceramic-food.html near the bottom, he deals with pre-formed wax rods
[16:57:15] <pcw_home> I would guess photopolymer printers will outrun GGG
[16:57:17] <pcw_home> (My recently repaired chipped tooth tells me this as well)
[16:57:40] <sparr> outrun in what way?
[16:57:52] <carper64_lb> don know wether it would give me enough definition for castings
[16:57:53] <L84Supper> SLA is ~6mm z-axis print rate at 100um res
[16:57:56] <pcw_home> run over
[16:58:13] <L84Supper> over a 10cm x 7cm area
[16:58:22] <sparr> so, let's say all three technologies (GGG, SLA, inkjet) all get down to the same price point
[16:58:24] <sparr> today
[16:58:36] <sparr> hypothetically, you can buy a similar size printer of each sort for $400
[16:58:41] <L84Supper> with 100um layers, 6mm/minute
[16:58:41] <carper64_lb> my way of thinking was to use a inkjet head printed onto a cold table to set each layer
[16:59:07] <carper64_lb> of wax
[16:59:09] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: what res do you need?
[16:59:20] <sparr> I would still choose FDM
[16:59:39] <L84Supper> FDM fan
[16:59:44] <pcw_home> There may also be hybrid models (GGG paste photopolymer thats hardened in place)
[16:59:55] <sparr> no, I'm considering the pros and cons of each
[17:00:29] <carper64_lb> detail would have to quit good for priniting engine pars for 1/6th scale engines
[17:00:40] <carper64_lb> parts
[17:00:41] <sparr> SLA is faster than FDM. that's not really an issue for me, if a print takes 10 minutes or 100 minutes, I'm going to go do something else or run it overnight
[17:00:47] <L84Supper> what is really needed are printers that print multiple materials quickly
[17:00:51] <pcw_home> Hybrid would have much better control of hardening and no need for temperature control
[17:00:54] <L84Supper> at high res
[17:01:06] <sparr> carper64_lb: most engine manufacturing processes involve milling after casting, so I'd expect to need milling after printing, too
[17:01:22] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: ~25um with DLP SLA
[17:01:48] <L84Supper> two photon initiation is down to 100nm for feature size
[17:02:34] <sparr> FDM makes more functional parts. Maybe there are SLA materials that are as good as ABS or PLA or HDPE or nylon, but I've never seen them and today is the first I'm hearing of them, so I'm dubious, and even if they exist *I* can't get them.
[17:02:45] <sparr> inkjet parts are entirely non-functional, in my experience
[17:02:59] <L84Supper> pcw_home: micronozzle and SLA are both around 7 liters per hour right now
[17:03:23] <sparr> Also, I don't know of an SLA design that does multiple materials
[17:03:30] <sparr> but there are inkjet and FDM printers that do
[17:03:33] <L84Supper> 7 liters = 7kg of PLA
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[17:03:48] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:03:54] <Loetmichel> sparr: you meand z-corp?
[17:03:56] <carper64_lb> ive seen the quality of alot of the plastic printers an they are good but not goo enough for intricate parts as alot leave the diaganol lines in the part
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[17:04:22] <Loetmichel> i.E: plaster or starch powerder hardened with inkjets?
[17:04:29] <L84Supper> sparr: so additive manufacturing CAM should be popular
[17:04:47] <sparr> Loetmichel: ~90% of my experience with inkjet parts are with zcorp printers. Are we referring to some other process as "inkjet"?
[17:05:07] <carper64_lb> thats why iam thinking if wax was used it can be melted to liquid nd using a cold table can be set almost instantly
[17:05:09] <L84Supper> photopolymer inkjet and micronozzle
[17:05:25] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: photopolymers cure instantly
[17:05:28] <sparr> carper64_lb: you wouldn't need to melt it all the way to a liquid. paste/clay/frosting printers could handle soft wax
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[17:05:45] <Loetmichel> sparr: i dont know, thats why i asked ;-)
[17:06:02] <sparr> L84Supper: are there photopolymers that perform well for casting plugs? lost ABS casting is a nice option to have with a FDM printer
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[17:06:34] <sparr> Loetmichel: I know stratasys has a process in their objet printers that I'm not familiar with
[17:07:00] <IchGuckLive> i got a Zprinter 450 at the University
[17:07:08] <L84Supper> people use SLA for lost wax type casting all the time, I bet most of the B9 ad form1's are going to jewelers
[17:07:29] <Loetmichel> sparr: i find it a nice idea to negative print parts in paster and then cast Tin or aluminum therein ;-)
[17:07:31] <L84Supper> sparr: most of the development is't going o with the deposition tech, it's in the materials
[17:07:39] <Loetmichel> plaster
[17:07:42] <carper64_lb> but the finer the particals the greater the definition thats hy i was thinking of melting the wax to a liquid olymers would put the cost up to greatly to mke the end product salable with lost wax casting
[17:07:48] <L84Supper> sorry my N key is dying
[17:08:26] <carper64_lb> supper make whole keyboard is trowing a dissy fit
[17:08:50] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/articles/20130301-new-kevvox-dlp-3d-printers-available-for-australia-and-new-zealand-market.html
[17:08:54] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: ^^
[17:09:02] <L84Supper> for example
[17:09:51] <IchGuckLive> carper64_lb: what is the goal the printer needs to retch
[17:10:05] <IchGuckLive> there is no universal
[17:10:13] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: http://3dlprint.com/gallery/
[17:10:14] <IchGuckLive> as inkjet != laser
[17:10:41] <L84Supper> heh, well we are making inkjet heads now with lasers in them
[17:10:54] <L84Supper> all the lines are blurred
[17:11:07] <carper64_lb> yep that is perfect supper
[17:11:41] <carper64_lb> but now its needs to be done with casting wax to keep the price down against using polymers
[17:11:52] <IchGuckLive> is is best to let print then buying a 3D printer
[17:12:44] <L84Supper> DSLS and e-beam are able to print metals directly without molds, thats the next big thing that will get low cost
[17:12:53] <WalterN> my laser safety glasses are here
[17:13:22] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: green
[17:13:31] <WalterN> no, pink :3
[17:13:48] <IchGuckLive> whow that is expensiv
[17:13:58] <WalterN> $150... *shrug*
[17:14:11] <carper64_lb> i really think they ar great tools espiecally to people who cast metal but the thing is to keep th price of the end product down to be competitive an wih ploymers it becomes to expensive
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[17:15:22] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: photopolymers that burn out well for lost wax using DLP SLA are $30/Kg, cheaper in volume
[17:15:22] <IchGuckLive> carper64_lb: it is still prototyping
[17:15:53] <carper64_lb> using abs then burning them ou of the molds prior to casting takes to long to burn out and also leaves residue
[17:16:11] <WalterN> rocking it with my new pink shaded $150 safety glasses... currently being worn like sunglasses
[17:16:15] <WalterN> lol
[17:16:30] <carper64_lb> still mor expesive than casting wax that can be used over and over again ploymers are 1 shot deals
[17:16:34] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: do you use a
[17:16:38] <L84Supper> many photopolymers are lower to manufacture than GGG filaments since you don't have to extrude them
[17:16:39] <IchGuckLive> Argon laser
[17:16:49] <L84Supper> the raw materials are about the same price
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[17:16:55] <WalterN> IchGuckLive: I have a diode laser
[17:17:01] <Connor> PetefromTn: Look on page 299 in the PDF
[17:17:07] <L84Supper> you just stir vs melt and mix
[17:17:23] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: nm
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[17:18:01] <WalterN> IchGuckLive: this is what I got... https://www.lasersafetyindustries.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=35-145
[17:18:50] <PetefromTn> okay, just called driveswarehouse and he is going to check out my setup here I gave him all the information. He told me to hook the resistor between p+ and RB tho....peace
[17:19:03] <IchGuckLive> WalterN: and what nM has the laser
[17:19:18] <PetefromTn> 299?
[17:19:45] <Connor> Really??
[17:19:58] <WalterN> IchGuckLive: 808nm +-2nm
[17:20:28] <WalterN> OD rating is 6 for that wavelength
[17:21:00] <L84Supper> carper64_lb: doesn't the wax burn out?
[17:21:05] <WalterN> its good for red lasers too
[17:21:36] <Connor> I can't even find reference as to what RB is.. I'm guessing that stands for Regenerative Break.
[17:22:12] <Connor> PetefromTn: Section 5-2
[17:22:32] <Connor> It has the Braking between + and -
[17:23:14] <carper64_lb> i will come up with a solution to it that uses ordanary casting wax that can be reused after moulds are made and give good deffinition once i get time to mess wih a prototype
[17:24:18] <IchGuckLive> the new ALU800 molds are made for <5000 pcs in one day only milling
[17:24:37] <Connor> Looking at 2-18.. I see a P/+ and N/- (or + - for Single-phase)
[17:25:25] <Connor> Maybe RB is insterally connected to the N/_
[17:25:41] <carper64_lb> yep that was aother wayi thought about was to do spilt molds in alu milled then poured into with the wax
[17:26:40] <IchGuckLive> carper64_lb: its way cheeper then printing 500parts
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[17:26:54] <IchGuckLive> and you get the full part
[17:27:27] <pcw_home> Typically the brake resistor goes between the +DC bus and the brake terminal (the collector of a IGBT)
[17:27:34] <carper64_lb> yes i agree printing is not cost effective at the moment
[17:27:54] <L84Supper> you can print wax directly from an inkjet head, 600-1200dpi res
[17:28:24] <carper64_lb> i thought that would have been possible supper
[17:28:49] <L84Supper> inkjet heads are really finicky beasts
[17:28:52] <IchGuckLive> carper64_lb: do ypou got a pic of the effected part
[17:28:59] <L84Supper> there are a few that can handle >100C temps
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[17:29:27] <IchGuckLive> carper64_lb: or somthing near
[17:32:15] <sparr> isn't an inkjet head just a bunch of very tiny GGGs next to each other? :)
[17:32:56] <sparr> I took apart the pumps for a big non-3d inkjet printer recently, and they looked very similar to the syringe pump for the universal paste extruder
[17:33:12] <L84Supper> sparr: multiple nozzles sure, but an inkjet doesn't extrude
[17:34:01] <sparr> L84Supper: what's the functional difference in wax coming out of an inkjet and wax coming out of a ggg?
[17:34:32] <L84Supper> sparr: depends on how you want to argue
[17:35:32] <L84Supper> number of inkjet nozzles, firing speed , drop size, vs nozzle dia and flow rate
[17:35:58] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: the inkjet gives the color the laser hardens the part
[17:36:03] <sparr> sure, but those are just variables
[17:36:09] <sparr> the concept is the same
[17:36:41] <sparr> do you just pick a line in the sand and say "more than X nozzles, smaller than Y drops, that's inkjet, less/larger is ggg"?
[17:36:45] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: you have seen Zcorp inkjet Zprinters
[17:37:54] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: yes they use HP TIJ cartridges
[17:38:08] <IchGuckLive> yes
[17:38:15] <sparr> A friend of mine in Atlanta buys those cartridges and refits them to work in his zcorp printer
[17:39:23] <pcw_home> Inkjets are pulsed and spray droplets (non contact)
[17:39:25] <pcw_home> GGG is more like dragging a toothpaste tube
[17:40:06] <L84Supper> sparr: do you spend a lot of time in #reprap?
[17:42:08] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: the z-corp could print as fast as these, Jump to 2:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFGnjkoeDng
[17:42:39] <IchGuckLive> time is no factor only viewing is the case
[17:44:10] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: not sure what you meant, resolution is more important that print rate?
[17:44:35] <sparr> pcw_home: non contact... that's actually new information to me
[17:44:45] <sparr> L84Supper: more when I'm building printers, less when I'm not
[17:45:13] <pcw_home> Inkjet is actually very old (1969)
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[17:46:40] <L84Supper> as my mother used to say: Der Apfel fällt nicht weit vom Baum
[17:47:28] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: agree but resulution means price Z450 is at 600dpi its good to go at lowest pricee
[17:47:46] <IchGuckLive> the 510C is at 1200 at 4times the cost
[17:50:03] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: last I heard from HP, z-corp dosen't use virgin cartridges. I wonder how often a cartridge is DOA?
[17:50:27] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: whats a z450 cost?
[17:51:43] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: im not in pricing but it is at 1500Euros
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[17:52:51] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: thats lower than I thought it might be
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[17:53:23] <L84Supper> http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/
[17:54:46] <L84Supper> I've thrown better things away
[17:55:14] <IchGuckLive> soliddoodle jeh
[17:58:02] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: there are also used 3-D printers in some manufactures
[17:58:19] <IchGuckLive> that drops prises from 50k to 5k
[18:00:04] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: DP-3400 with 6500 Printzing Hours at 3675Eur
[18:00:16] <IchGuckLive> New pricing 48K
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[18:03:08] <IchGuckLive> they are yoused in dental to got the mold for the real stuff
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[18:10:14] <IchGuckLive> im off by for today NICE talking THe futher is Us
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[18:54:10] <L84Supper> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/eff-partners-challenge EFF and Partners Challenge Six 3D Printing Patent Applications
[18:54:29] <L84Supper> it's about time, but will they make a dent?
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[19:07:16] <WalterN> L84Supper: what kind of system(s) will I need to go from a 3D model to lasering the 3D object together with galvos?
[19:07:42] <WalterN> I guess mostly what will I need besides linuxCNC (if anything)
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[19:11:23] <DJ9DJ> namd
[19:14:17] <Tecan> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11712
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[19:31:14] <PetefromTn> back again...
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[19:32:44] <JT-Shop> what size lazer do I need to burn letters in aluminum > 0.003" deep?
[19:33:54] <PetefromTn> I'd say Buck Rodgers sidearm would work fine LOL
[19:34:18] <Loetmichel> PetefromTn: but a bit "not so precise"
[19:34:37] <Loetmichel> thinking of the arm thick beams sooting out there ;-)
[19:34:40] <PetefromTn> Hey I tried....
[19:34:51] <PetefromTn> how about 1.21 gigawatts?
[19:35:10] <mrsun> http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p206x206/37049_10151540711803648_1131746460_n.jpg so my new little friend have moved in! =) atleast something on the router is done now :P
[19:35:30] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: depends on the aluminium: mirrolike polished isnt really possibloe
[19:35:43] <PetefromTn> mrsun: lookin good man...
[19:35:48] <Loetmichel> black anodized should work with about 80W
[19:35:53] <Loetmichel> ... to write on
[19:36:04] <Loetmichel> maybe even with 40W
[19:36:14] <mrsun> PetefromTn, thanks =)
[19:36:58] <PetefromTn> Well my improv brakinig resistor seemed to work okay. Definitely stops the motor better now but not sure if there are better options.... It went from 4500 RM down to nil in about 2.5 seconds or so...
[19:37:20] <PetefromTn> mrsun: Did ya make it yourself?
[19:37:23] <mrsun> yes
[19:37:23] <L84Supper> WalterN: for software just CAM that creates the G-code based on your laser spot, but thats the simple answer
[19:37:38] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: thanks I think the parts are black anodized
[19:37:56] <PetefromTn> how about drag engraver?
[19:38:04] <L84Supper> WalterN: you may also want to modulate the laser or control the amount of overlap over earlier layers
[19:38:07] <JT-Shop> the letters have to be > 0.003" deep
[19:38:18] <PetefromTn> so?
[19:38:23] <JT-Shop> the hole is 3" deep and the letters are on the bottom
[19:38:26] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: normally one uses a paint that chenges color when heated by a laser
[19:38:47] <PetefromTn> diameter?
[19:38:54] <JT-Shop> this is not normal... the goverment is involved
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[19:39:23] <JT-Shop> the hole?
[19:39:24] <L84Supper> WalterN: most galvos have an analog input, so you will need analog output from one of the mesa boards
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[19:39:47] <JT-Shop> too small and too deep for normal metal working tools
[19:40:05] <jdh> govt money!
[19:40:12] <PetefromTn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2eCsngVlKso
[19:40:13] <Tecan> (2eCsngVlKso) "Tormach - Diamond Drag Engraving 4140 Steel" by "tormachlabs" is "Tech" - Length: 0:02:27
[19:40:15] <jdh> get a 100watt yag
[19:40:48] <PetefromTn> Why would you need to put letters inside a deep narrow hole LOL?
[19:40:58] <jdh> it's the govt
[19:41:52] <L84Supper> WalterN: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_electronics_discussion/150487-as5311_encoder_2_%B5_very_little_money.html#post1087824
[19:42:07] <WalterN> L84Supper: I'm mostly wondering about the software side
[19:42:32] <WalterN> do I need a CAM system?
[19:42:39] <JT-Shop> gov regs
[19:42:42] <L84Supper> PyCAM
[19:42:59] <L84Supper> WalterN: you need to create a tool path for the laser
[19:43:32] <PetefromTn> Pycam? wazzat?
[19:43:55] <L84Supper> http://pycam.sourceforge.net/
[19:44:12] <Loetmichel> jdh: other appoach: make a steel punch with the letters that fits the hole...
[19:44:12] <JT-Shop> I'm pretty sure the tormac tool is too big to fit
[19:44:13] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[19:44:29] <Loetmichel> and drive it in ;-)
[19:44:48] <WalterN> L84Supper: oh ok... I didnt know if it needed anything special for rapid prototyping machines... will it need special stuff for figuring out the angles with the galvo system though?
[19:44:59] <Loetmichel> grrr
[19:45:06] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop was meant
[19:45:42] <JT-Shop> Loetmichel: good idea I have to see if the letters change or not
[19:46:09] <L84Supper> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK14SaaYMoc CNC laser galvo scanner head test
[19:47:09] <PetefromTn> Anyone here using this pycam?
[19:49:02] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: They make narrower ones....
[19:50:39] <JT-Shop> PetefromTn: I'll have to get the item in my hands to see exactly what I have to work with but if it fits the drag tip might be the solution
[19:51:30] <PetefromTn> JT-Shop: Whatever works man LOL... They do work nice tho even on relatively hard stuff.
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[20:02:12] <JT-Shop> hmm you can get the drad tips quite long
[20:03:19] <jdh> seem like longer would mean less precision due to flex?
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[20:08:24] <sumpfralle1> PetefromTn: I use (and develop) pycam
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[20:09:30] <PetefromTn> sumpfralle1: well hello then! Whats the story with this how does it compare to say Cambam or other similar programs? What does it cost? I need a 3d solution for my shop here but cannot afford the more mainstream offerings.
[20:10:30] <L84Supper> WalterN: thats what the CAM tools work out, you interact with it to produce the G-code that will move the laser
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[20:36:15] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:54:20] <Lomach> Hi All, Im new to the irc. Can someone help me with stopping "look ahead" at the start of a subprogram and then restart it when its finished
[21:54:54] <skunkworks> Lomach: could you expand on what issue you are trying to fix?
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[21:57:48] <Lomach> Yeah sure. I am using a subprogram for a toolchange operation which is not ideal but it works. The issue is if i abort a program a few lines before the subprogram is called it seems to hold some of the commands in the memory. Then if i go to an mdi command and run a line it runs in parallel with the new command. Hope that makes sense
[22:04:00] <skunkworks> Lomach: I am not understanding what you mean :)
[22:05:01] <skunkworks> on a side note - have you thought about gcode remapping?
[22:05:03] <skunkworks> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html
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[22:05:48] <skunkworks> something to look into - it is in the develompent version - but might do what you want using normal gcode.
[22:06:14] <skunkworks> they have tool change examples
[22:06:23] <skunkworks> Lomach: could you give an example?
[22:07:30] <Lomach> I am thinking of remapping but the code would still need this issue sorted. I will try to explain.
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[22:09:20] <Lomach> I have a subprogram for a toolchange with several m62/63 commands with in it to complete the task. If I am running a g code program that has a toolchange in it everything runs fine if it goes to the end
[22:10:16] <Lomach> If however i press esc before the subprogram is called the machine stops but somehow retains some of the m64 commands.
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[22:11:23] <Lomach> So at this point i went to mdi and typed in a x movement but when i pressed go the m64 command was executed along with the x move.
[22:12:26] <Lomach> I remember when using probing routines on a fanuc machine there was a way of disabling the look ahead in the subprogram which i assume would prevent this from ahappening
[22:13:19] <skunkworks> well - It sounds like a bug.. But
[22:13:43] <skunkworks> Could you try putting a G4P.1 before the sub call?
[22:14:25] <Lomach> I looked at that and thought it was just a positional tolerance
[22:14:35] <skunkworks> it is a delay
[22:15:16] <skunkworks> but I think it causes it to stops looking ahead at that point
[22:15:18] <skunkworks> I think
[22:15:50] <Lomach> Sorry i thought you meant g64 not g4. I see where your going though and never thought about that
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[22:18:05] <andypugh> Bother! https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5747722155741347649/5867572345591306402
[22:18:24] <andypugh> (It isn't my outrunner motor, it's the alternator from my bike...)
[22:19:57] <Tom_itx> what happened?
[22:20:18] <skunkworks> yeck - shorted out!
[22:20:21] <andypugh> I have no more idea than last time it happened, 40,000 miles ago.
[22:20:38] <andypugh> No, it is electrically fine, but the magnets have come loose.
[22:20:43] <skunkworks> odd
[22:20:53] <skunkworks> does the oil eat it?
[22:21:06] <Lomach> skunkworks - i just looked it up on google and renishaw use g05 to specify the number of lines to look ahead. Is there such a thing on linuxcnc
[22:21:09] <andypugh> Maybe, bit it shouldn't, it is in an engine!
[22:21:17] <skunkworks> Lomach: no
[22:21:42] <andypugh> And this is a _bargain_ price for a new one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-2005-2006-YAMAHA-R1-MAGNETO-GENERATOR-ALTERNATOR-FLYWHEEL-ROTOR-/111050690125?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19db230e4d
[22:21:50] <skunkworks> well - wondering if you are using some exotic oil that wasn't available when the machine was mfgred?
[22:21:56] <skunkworks> oil blend
[22:21:56] <Lomach> Ok. Will try the dwell tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for your help
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[22:22:49] <skunkworks> Lomach: let us know
[22:23:35] <Lomach> will do. The machine works great once its set but this is an issue i need to sort out
[22:23:42] <skunkworks> sure
[22:24:11] <skunkworks> I think you should maybe post a bug report showing your code and subs explaining what happens...
[22:26:11] <Lomach> I would be happy to but can you tell me how to report it
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[22:28:01] <skunkworks> Lomach: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=106744&group_id=6744&func=browse
[22:29:00] <Lomach> Thanks for that. Dont have the code with me but will do it tomorrow
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[22:42:11] <skunkworks> andypugh: too far out there?
[22:42:14] <skunkworks> ;)
[22:42:53] <andypugh> <blank look>
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[22:46:26] <skunkworks> well - wondering if you are using some exotic oil that wasn't available when the machine was mfgred?
[22:46:29] <skunkworks> oil blend
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[22:53:29] <PCW> Stator undamaged?
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[22:53:53] <andypugh> The stator is a little rounded on the pole pieces.
[22:54:20] <andypugh> I need to check continuity, but it was fine last time this happened.
[22:54:37] <PCW> Happened before?
[22:56:33] <andypugh> Yes, 40,000 miles ago, ehen the bike had 40,000 on the clock. Curiously regular failure mode, I bet it happens again at 120,000 miles.
[22:58:16] <PCW> Sure looks like the glue doesn't get along with hot oil
[22:59:09] <andypugh> Indeed. There are actually injection-moulded spacers.
[22:59:23] <andypugh> I guess I _could_ try to re-magnet it...
[22:59:26] <PCW> Did you save the last mess? maybe there would be enough good magnets to re-glue
[23:01:07] <andypugh> It was worse last time: http://www.bodgesoc.org/OhDear.jpg
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[23:02:24] <PCW> you probable knew right away this time...
[23:02:38] <andypugh> I think the magnets are pretty much all still there. There is certainly a lot less sign of bits all over the inside of the engine.
[23:02:40] <Tom_itx> he'll be able to repair it in his sleep next time
[23:03:02] <andypugh> It's an easy repair, but horribly expensive.
[23:03:18] <andypugh> http://www.cmsnl.com/products/rotor-assy_5vy8145000/
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[23:06:50] <skunkworks> are others having the same problem?
[23:08:30] <PCW> Yow thats a lot (and there's no excuse for it dissolving into goo)
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[23:11:41] <andypugh> I have seen some reference to it happening, when googling.
[23:12:06] <andypugh> I am going to have a word with Yamaha. Having it happen twice to one person seems unfair.
[23:12:12] <Nick001-Shop> PCW- will a 7i32 allow me to run steppers in a closed loop?
[23:12:59] <PCW> With SoftDMC yes, LinuxCNC no
[23:13:32] <Nick001-Shop> whats SoftDMC?
[23:14:51] <PCW> our integrated motion controller (built into the FPGA)
[23:15:32] <PCW> It might be doable with LinuxCNC but would need so hardware help with commutation
[23:15:44] <PCW> s/so/some/
[23:15:47] <Nick001-Shop> How would I access that program and is there docs?
[23:16:36] <andypugh> This evening was meant to be just changing the oil and filter on the bike. Not failing to start it, failing to bump-start it, walking 2.5 miles home, charging a battery, walking 2.5 miles back, starting it, riding it home and finding that the alternator has expired. :-(
[23:18:28] <andypugh> Time to log off, anyway. I wish you all a better evenign than I have had.
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[23:51:50] <PCW> Nick001-Shop: http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/softdmc.pdf
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[23:57:54] <Nick001-Shop> thanks - will get to it in about an hour - dinner bell went off
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