#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-03-12

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[00:26:19] <andypugh> Wooohoo! I am typing into a terminal window with a keyboard connected through a 7i73, smart serial, 5i25 and HAL !
[00:26:39] <pfred1> take a picture
[00:27:36] <pfred1> I'm IRCing through an ssh shell on my DEbian system through my Gentoo system which was exciting a couple of days ago but is kinda meh now
[00:28:02] <andypugh> Well, I have only got as far as key "1" on a 4x4 keypad putting letter "a" on screen.
[00:28:57] <andypugh> This is slightly more cool, as it means I have written a Linux input input device driver that connects via HAL rather than USB.
[00:29:02] <pfred1> andypugh this was my greatest keyboard hack http://www.instructables.com/id/Sinclair-Surplus-Keyboard-Graft/
[00:30:27] <andypugh> I tried the same thing with my spectrum. But I hadn't realised that the old Amdahl keyboard I had was capacitative rather than switches.
[00:30:50] <pfred1> I got lucky
[00:31:05] <pfred1> I don't know to this day what that keyboard I used is
[00:31:17] <pfred1> I guess plain switches
[00:31:48] <pfred1> I will say this it played hell with TV reception whenever I had it going
[00:33:41] <andypugh> http://pastebin.com/BVzCD33E
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[00:39:47] <pfred1> with the documentation I have building RTAI is like guess my best
[00:44:16] <pfred1> does LinuxCNC need any of the Optional Features: in RTAI configure?
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[00:47:23] <tjtr33> andypugh, beautiful Lorch lathe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bvyFG3hWM
[00:50:06] <andypugh> tjtr33: Reminds moe of this with all the accesories: http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/ (keep scrollong down))
[00:50:16] <cpresser> andypugh: so how did you finally hook up the keyboard?
[00:51:21] <andypugh> cpresser: Generic input device
[00:51:55] <cpresser> so you build a kernel module for it?
[00:52:20] <andypugh> Yes.
[00:52:27] <cpresser> nice :)
[00:53:10] <andypugh> cpresser: Not a lot of code: http://pastebin.com/aMcLR3Rj
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[01:04:48] <skunkworks> andypugh: cool
[01:05:41] <pfred1> whoah that patch seems to have worked
[01:05:51] <andypugh> The worry is that people will use it to map physical buttons to Axis UI keyboard shortcuts.
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[01:07:25] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You here?
[01:08:15] <skunkworks> what was your idea? I thought that was the point. or am I missing something.
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[01:09:01] <andypugh> The idea was to be able to enter touch-off values and MDI G-code from a matrix keyboard on a console.
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[01:11:37] <cpresser> but why use the this module+axis when you can use halui
[01:11:49] <cpresser> i dont think you need to worry, andypugh :)
[01:12:03] <andypugh> How do you connect a matrix keyboard with Halui?
[01:12:30] <cpresser> no, i was thinking axis-ui shortcuts
[01:12:43] <cpresser> like machine on/off; coolant, ...
[01:12:56] <andypugh> Ah, yes, that is definitely the way to do it, rather than with this module.
[01:14:20] <andypugh> tjtr33: Ooh, that Lorch does screw-cutting by driving the compound slide screw.
[01:14:41] <tjtr33> helluva video like 45min
[01:15:42] <tjtr33> i tried to find fotos of the F1 i used at AGie, used a DIXIE cnc, and had istema tooling holder, no table, just for electrode mfctr
[01:16:15] <r00t4rd3d> https://nightly.mozilla.org/
[01:16:23] <r00t4rd3d> didnt know that existed
[01:17:56] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: For the man living on the edge.
[01:18:10] <skunkworks> ah - so you just want it for normal gcode alphanumerics. that makes sense. everything else should be accessable through halui
[01:19:09] <andypugh> Imagine you have a machine with an ABC keyboard, this lets you carry on using it
[01:19:40] <skunkworks> right
[01:19:43] <andypugh> Rather than plug in a USB one and retire the keyswitch keyboard.
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[01:28:33] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: firefox sucks
[01:30:27] <FinboySlick> I still like it better.
[01:32:14] <andypugh> cpresser: By connecting 3 matrix_kb hal functions to 1 matrix keyboard scancode pin I can get 3 characters per keypress. :-)
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[01:54:04] <andypugh> Time so sleep.
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[02:48:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/0CzMG
[02:48:06] <r00t4rd3d> odd
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[02:56:48] <r00t4rd3d> I might make me a pallet
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[03:07:51] <tjtr33> r00t4rd3d, its odd how things happen in cycles, i was just looking at molded bricks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBkv5jjjhJ0 jog up to 29sec
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[04:12:37] <Jymmm> mortar-less interlocking cider blocks?
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[04:48:10] <pfred1> Paul is a happy boy http://i.imgur.com/oPOsH0N.png
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[04:55:25] <r00t4rd3d> i fixed up cnczone.com logo and he used it :)
[04:55:34] <pfred1> nice
[04:55:46] <pfred1> too bad that place is awash with Geckos and mach3
[04:56:32] <r00t4rd3d> i dont have a gecko but i want one
[04:56:38] <pfred1> pfft
[04:57:03] <r00t4rd3d> though my tb6560 has worked flawlessly
[04:57:31] <pfred1> I wonder if these numbers mean what I think they mean http://i.imgur.com/oPOsH0N.png
[04:57:57] <r00t4rd3d> what numbers
[04:58:01] <r00t4rd3d> lots of numbers there
[04:58:13] <pfred1> yes that is the rtai test suite running
[04:58:28] <pfred1> and if they're my latency scores they're mighty low
[04:59:08] <r00t4rd3d> i never really bothered with that
[04:59:27] <r00t4rd3d> i ran the lat test but thats it
[04:59:38] <pfred1> once I install the rest of LinuxCNC I'll have to compare them
[04:59:52] <pfred1> well this is the official latency test from RTAI
[05:00:10] <pfred1> I'm pretty sure they're the same thing just a different interface
[05:00:12] <r00t4rd3d> i imagine on a new kernel things would improve though
[05:00:30] <pfred1> well I'm running 2.6.38
[05:00:45] <pfred1> which is the highest kernel RTAI will patch against
[05:01:12] <pfred1> Linux acme 2.6.38-rtairtai1 #3 SMP Tue Mar 12 00:16:36 EDT 2013 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[05:01:24] <pfred1> /exec -o uname -a
[05:01:54] <pfred1> I need to clean up my append it is doubling
[05:03:45] <r00t4rd3d> do you know who is a regular contributor to the linux kernel?
[05:03:53] <r00t4rd3d> one you probably wouldnt guess
[05:04:01] <r00t4rd3d> ms
[05:04:27] <pfred1> they just contribute virtuilization code for their hypervisor
[05:04:36] <pfred1> and their code sucks too
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[05:05:19] <pfred1> the 20,000 lines they contributed has been whittled down to 9,000 lines
[05:06:52] <r00t4rd3d> why dont you like geckos ?
[05:07:00] <r00t4rd3d> cost?
[05:07:40] <r00t4rd3d> takes away from your drug habit
[05:07:59] <pfred1> I just don't like boring solutions
[05:08:11] <r00t4rd3d> plug and play man!
[05:09:50] <pfred1> perhaps the latency test in LinuxCNC is this one? RTAI Testsuite - UP preempt (all data in nanoseconds)
[05:11:29] <pfred1> http://pastebin.com/0Ci7nmZZ
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[05:13:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTKuWlx-tIY
[05:13:51] <r00t4rd3d> that is cool
[05:14:04] <pfred1> it'd be nice if it stays at 5,000ns when I have all of LinuxCNC installed
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[05:23:40] <pfred1> now that I have the kernel running I suppose getting the rest going is just a matter of time
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[07:54:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop-3: Maybe you should open a TechShop https://secure.techshop.ws/memberships.cfm?step=select_offer&offer=58
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[07:56:11] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:58:53] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[09:13:35] <Loetmichel> *nervous waiting* company has FINALLY allowed me to order a cnc mill... ups avised delivering tomorrow... -> http://www.ebay.de/itm/321061312512
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[10:28:35] <IceKiller> Loetmichel any idea if that spindle can be bought seperatly?
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[10:39:55] <Loetmichel> IceKiller: it can, just serarch ebay
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[11:00:56] <Loetmichel> hmm, anyone has a link to a linuxCNC (ubuntu 10.04 ) CD laber to make the install CD nice?
[11:01:06] <Loetmichel> label
[11:01:33] <Jymmm> sharpie
[11:01:54] <Jymmm> sharpie marker
[11:02:06] <Loetmichel> i said NICE
[11:02:22] <Loetmichel> my handwriting may be many things, NICE is none of them ;-)
[11:02:29] <Jymmm> We can't help it if you have sucky penmmaenship
[11:03:01] <Loetmichel> and as i have printable CDs and a printer here wich supports cd printiung...
[11:03:03] <Jymmm> write slow
[11:03:11] <Jymmm> use your feet or something
[11:03:49] <Loetmichel> i thought SOMEone must have gone creative before me... thougth wrong it seems...
[11:04:07] <Loetmichel> * linuxCNC logo and Ubuntu cd label download...
[11:04:25] <Jymmm> fine, put the sharpie in your cnc and do it that way
[11:04:35] <jthornton> I think Alex did one for the 8.08 CD
[11:05:29] <Jymmm> jthornton: Maybe you should open a TechShop https://secure.techshop.ws/memberships.cfm?step=select_offer&offer=58
[11:06:12] <jthornton> I saw that Jymmm, I doubt anyone around here is interested in a techshop
[11:06:35] <Jymmm> you sure?
[11:07:02] <Jymmm> Would kinda be like a DIY fix-it shop
[11:07:27] <jthornton> I'm sure you would need a larger city than here to have enough interest
[11:08:01] <Jymmm> ah
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[11:40:10] <Loetmichel> *install* -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=14109 ... machine comes tomorrow ;-)
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[12:34:21] <skunkworks> wow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJZBcd-sek
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[12:48:12] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Whatcha WOWing about?
[12:48:25] <skunkworks> that is andys video
[12:48:58] <Jymmm> someone stole it?
[12:49:33] <skunkworks> if you can actually steel youtube videos...
[12:49:50] <Jymmm> You can...
[12:50:03] <Jymmm> I do it on ones I like
[12:51:51] <Jymmm> Oh man, I need to get a new trackball. I wore this one out =(
[12:53:20] <Jymmm> and the price of it hasn't dropped in 15 years, even on ebay it's $90
[12:54:12] <archivist> skunkworks, you can send feedback to google to complain, I just did
[12:54:33] <skunkworks> archivist, you had the same problem - didn't you?
[12:54:39] <archivist> yes
[12:55:06] <Jymmm> click the FLAG
[13:00:50] <Jymmm> I'm going to toss the laser on the LAN, this should be fun =)
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[13:21:45] <skunkworks> Jymmm, what are you using to control the laser?
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[13:38:47] <r00t4rd3d> his brains with a tin foil hat
[13:40:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/5X760C2.jpg
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[13:55:35] <L84Supper> web controlled laser vs leaving a box of laser pointers just outside a middle school, hijinks ensue
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[14:42:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.flickr.com/photos/28521811@N04/
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[17:48:54] <tjtr33> pcw_home, i've dloaded the 4 parts of the Xilinx ISE suite, it's able to do many diff installs.
[17:48:55] <tjtr33> do you recommend M% vs Linux vs ISE vs WebPack?
[17:49:02] <tjtr33> M$
[17:50:50] <pcw_home> ISE is $$
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[17:51:32] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:51:43] <pcw_home> (the download is the same the licensing and capabilities are different)
[17:52:35] <IchGuckLive> 10cm of snow here today in southwest germany
[17:53:50] <tjtr33> pcw_home, already dloaded, wondering which way to ask it to install.
[17:53:53] <tjtr33> I'd like to learn vhdl with the m5i20 and later the cape/shield that mesa has in the works
[17:54:23] <pcw_home> install weback unless you want to pay $2500 or so a year
[17:55:01] <tjtr33> great, thx
[17:55:06] <pcw_home> install ISE if you need its features and dont mind the $$$
[17:56:00] <tjtr33> i wouldnt be able to answer that q @ features, so must not need them now :)
[17:56:22] <pcw_home> You will know when you need them...
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[18:00:38] <AR_> just install webpack
[18:00:45] <pcw_home> I just use webpack, we used to have a ISE licence but it was not worth it for us
[18:00:51] <AR_> i also recommend altera modelsim for simulation
[18:01:47] <pcw_home> I dont use the Altera tools but I've heard they are less bug infested
[18:02:13] <AR_> more lightweight
[18:02:53] <pcw_home> The latest Xilinx install is like 15 GB
[18:03:02] <AR_> yeah it's rediculous
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[18:03:35] <tjtr33> ? i dloaded last nite ver 14x ~9G
[18:04:04] <tjtr33> oh, expanded? good to know, was planning destination
[18:04:13] <pcw_home> installed?
[18:05:02] <tjtr33> i think the conversation was speaking of installed size =15G , i dloaded 9G
[18:05:29] <pcw_home> I think theres a complete alternate environment (Vivado?)
[18:06:13] <AR_> i think instead of fixing things over the years, xilinx just added more and more to the package
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[18:06:30] <tjtr33> ubuntu 12.04 vs 10.04? make any diff for WebPack?
[18:06:49] <pcw_home> Yeah the pile gets bigger but not a lot taller
[18:07:23] <pcw_home> Dont know, I run under winders
[18:07:39] <tjtr33> ah, thx!
[18:07:56] <pcw_home> I think someone has some tips on Ubuntu installs (might google for that)
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[18:17:05] <andypugh> pcw_home: The internets says that 2 keys is OK without diodes :-)
[18:17:45] <andypugh> I am pretty likely to end up adding matrix-scan to the component.
[18:18:04] <skunkworks> andypugh, did you see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJZBcd-sek
[18:18:37] <andypugh> Why do they do that?
[18:18:46] <skunkworks> no clue
[18:18:58] <skunkworks> are there ads? I didn't notice
[18:19:15] <pcw_home> Yes I think that true 2 Key rollover is possible without diodes by
[18:19:17] <pcw_home> reversing the drive/ sense busses
[18:21:26] <L84Supper> ever work with Altium for FPGA's?
[18:22:02] <andypugh> skunkworks: Complaint submitted.
[18:22:17] <skunkworks> andypugh, good - I think a few others have also
[18:22:30] <pcw_home> No I thought that just about sunk Altium...
[18:23:54] <L84Supper> I prefer Capture and Allegro to Altium, so I either use webpack or at times ISE
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[18:24:22] <L84Supper> sometimes a disti will give us a working copy without support
[18:26:28] <pcw_home> I think Altium would be better off to concentrate on PC layout
[18:26:30] <pcw_home> (and sell a plain schematic/layout package without the FPGA crap)
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[18:27:31] <Err> heh, I've used altera's tools for years and I don't know that I would call them fantastic
[18:28:19] <pcw_home> Pretty sure the FPGA stuff got their CEO fired
[18:29:15] <L84Supper> it's odd that they would try to integrate it, when there are packages from the vendors themselves ... and even they are buggy
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[18:30:07] <pcw_home> Yeah no one needs yet more buggy FPAG devel crap, theres enough already
[18:30:36] <Err> I think they wanted to start getting recurring revenue from IP block sales
[18:30:48] <Err> there are a *lot* of "FPGA designers" who just tie purchased IP together
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[18:31:38] <pcw_home> I love the XIlinx bugs where stuff meets timing but just doesnt work (until you change some obscure compile directive or XST version)
[18:32:56] <Err> I've never seen quartus meet timing (if the requirements are spec'd correctly) and then the resultant not work - except for one specific version that couldn't produce valid programming files for the cyclone II
[18:32:57] <pcw_home> My particular favorite is the "small counters don't work on Spartan3" bug
[18:33:01] <Err> (that was awesome)
[18:34:10] <pcw_home> These things are tough enough as it is without toolchain bugs
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[18:39:50] <pcw_home> I should put this in context, I have only found 2 of these really bad synthesis bugs over the years
[18:39:52] <pcw_home> but they caused a fair amount of pain and suffering because they usually bit in bigger complicated designs with multiple processors etc, so caused a very merry wild goose chase
[18:39:54] <pcw_home> since I trusted the tools. (not anymore)
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[18:44:28] <AR_> mmm
[18:44:37] <AR_> blocks of delrin have arrived
[18:45:20] <bluefr0g> Yay
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[18:56:00] <IchGuckLive> AR_: why dont you use PA6.6 cheeper
[18:56:19] <AR_> because I dont know about it obviously
[18:56:52] <IchGuckLive> in the future use this and you wll be impressed but 6.6 not 6
[18:57:04] <AR_> where can I find i t
[18:57:05] <AR_> it
[18:57:13] <IchGuckLive> europ or usa
[18:57:51] <AR_> usa
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[18:59:20] <Err> pcw_home: it doesn't take many toolchain bugs to make you gunshy - because they're *such* a pain to debug
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[19:02:14] <IchGuckLive> AR_: flat or round in your metal supplyer must have this also in Homedepo ask for PA66
[19:02:23] <AR_> ok
[19:02:33] <AR_> it is the same as nylon6/6?
[19:02:43] <IchGuckLive> almost yes
[19:03:07] <IchGuckLive> nylon woudt have more teflon in it it is more pricy
[19:03:21] <AR_> oh
[19:04:24] <IchGuckLive> bad thing on this is only that the manafuctures worldwide dident agree on color coding the pa6 <-> PA66
[19:04:45] <IchGuckLive> as it is used for food mashines it has to be with
[19:04:50] <IchGuckLive> whith
[19:05:03] <IchGuckLive> "Weiss"
[19:05:37] <IchGuckLive> white O.O B)
[19:06:13] <IchGuckLive> so some sell the cheep PA6 for the harden and more expensive PA6.6
[19:07:09] <IchGuckLive> as this resists almost all chemicals and has good bearing properties
[19:07:49] <IchGuckLive> for self-lubricating
[19:08:51] <IchGuckLive> AR_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamide
[19:09:03] <AR_> ah ok
[19:09:05] <AR_> thanks
[19:09:45] <IchGuckLive> the english wikipedia is not given all answers german wiki on this is mutch longer
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[19:12:22] <IchGuckLive> AR_: i run TRapezional tread on alot of mills out of this
[19:12:40] <IchGuckLive> you can get them ready made in germany
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[19:13:31] <IchGuckLive> http://maedler.de/product/produkte/gewindespindeln-muttern-keilwellen-keilnaben/din-103-trapezgewindespindeln-und-muttern-eingaengig-rechts/runde-muttern-mit-trapezgewinde-eingaengig-rechts/runde-muttern-mit-trapezgewinde-eingaengig-rechts-kunststoff
[19:13:47] <IchGuckLive> mouse over price logo
[19:14:41] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by till tomorrow
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[19:32:19] <Jymmm> I like the first line, not sure about the second:
[19:32:25] <Jymmm> The supplied 3D models, pictures and technical drawings are made with reasonable care.
[19:32:25] <Jymmm> Nevertheless liability is excluded for the accuracy and correctness of this data.
[19:38:03] <syyl> i think all suppliers have such a line for their technical informations
[19:41:43] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: look on the other side: would you like to be held liable for a service you give your customers for free, and that already eats some not so small portion of your renevue?
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[19:42:01] <uw> anybody have a secrets for cheap suppliers of plastics?
[19:42:07] <uw> like, the block kind
[19:42:11] <uw> you can machine
[19:42:18] <tjb1> JT-Shop: You here?
[19:42:51] <andypugh> uw: Melted-down carrier bags?
[19:44:51] <uw> andypugh, hmm is there a process to do that?
[19:44:58] <uw> that doesnt cause them to burn?
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[19:45:22] <uw> id be willing to try. I have used milkjugs before to melt into other things, but never blocks
[19:45:34] <L84Supper> uw: sheets and shapes of what type and where in the world?
[19:46:07] <L84Supper> uw: or are you looking for pellets?
[19:46:07] <uw> L84Supper, blocks and rounds, mostly stuff to practice on. I am in NJ USA
[19:46:08] <archivist> I get the odd bit of plastic off fleabaay
[19:47:14] <uw> archivist, I have seen them on there. Just seeing if there is another place that is super cheap cutoffs that are going for scrap
[19:47:26] <uw> i get metals in this form, but not plastics
[19:47:35] <L84Supper> uw: setup a plastic recycling bin "Dispose of your large sheets and block of tooling plastics here" :)
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[19:52:16] <uw> L84Supper, ha yea and hope its filled by the end of the day
[19:52:19] <andypugh> uw: http://www.instructables.com/id/Machinable-Wax/
[19:52:36] <pfred1> is there a tarball for LinuxNC anymore? All I'm seeing on the download page is the ISO and some scripts for Ubuntu
[19:52:52] <pfred1> LinuxCNC even
[19:53:46] <andypugh> pfred1: no tarball, but buildbot.linuxcnc.org is an alternative way to get it.
[19:55:19] <pfred1> didn't there used to be a tarball release?
[19:55:52] <pfred1> can I cvs or git it? I just want a source tree to compile
[19:56:34] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#Getting_the_source_with_git
[19:56:43] <pfred1> skunkworks ta
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[20:05:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: No, no, no, it's just the verbage not the release of liability.
[20:05:43] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The first line was nice and straight forward. The 2nd, not so much
[20:06:09] <Jymmm> 2nd sounds too much like legalese
[20:06:16] <pfred1> well there is a tarball for LinuxCNC now -rw-r--r-- 1 pfred1 pfred1 85758787 Mar 12 16:09 LinuxCNC-git.tar.bz2 :)
[20:07:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: only in your mind
[20:07:39] <pfred1> Jymmm no on my LAN
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> pfred1: and that does any of us any good how?
[20:08:28] <pfred1> Jymmm you can all bask in my glory when I get this running
[20:08:44] <Jymmm> pfred1: Until then, it's only in your mind
[20:08:53] <Jymmm> =)
[20:09:46] <Jymmm> pfred1: and how well do you expect the rPi to do against the real thing?
[20:10:17] <pfred1> Jymmm I've no idea
[20:10:36] <pfred1> rasPIs are too expensive
[20:11:09] <Jymmm> isn't that what you're building on?
[20:11:26] <pfred1> not me I have a PC I got out of a thrift store
[20:11:39] <pfred1> five dolla
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[20:15:16] <PCW> andypugh: is ist possible to change the "Unsupported Device ( ) found on sserial X channel Y" message to
[20:15:18] <PCW> "Sserial X channel Y enabled but no sserial device found" as the unsupported device message seems to cause some confusion
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[20:15:59] <pfred1> PCW a confused user is our best customer
[20:16:12] <PCW> :-)
[20:16:26] <xyzee> Can anyone point me to a place to buy a good cheap computer to run linuxcnc in the UK?
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[20:16:38] <pfred1> xyzee hit the tip
[20:16:52] <pfred1> that is where I got my first LinuxCNC PC
[20:17:11] <pfred1> xyzee I'm moving up in the world now I got my last one at a thrift store
[20:17:27] <PCW> Real money
[20:17:31] <pfred1> $5
[20:18:02] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/oPOsH0N.png
[20:18:56] <andypugh> PCW: It should be. It actualy shouldn't say anything at all.
[20:19:18] <pfred1> did you ever wonder what the difference between cp -r and cp -R is?
[20:19:37] <PCW> is that a debug leftover?
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[20:21:36] <PCW> I kind of like the warning since if you want to use the TX pin as GPIO you might want to know its warbling around during startup
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[20:25:03] <xyzee> pfred1: I've had two salvaged machines and they both died, I want something reliable
[20:25:21] <pfred1> xyzee you use the same power supply in both?
[20:25:49] <pfred1> I had a bad PSU once every machine I put it in it killed in about a month
[20:26:14] <pfred1> it wouldn't kill them right away but sure as anything it'd kill them over a short span of time
[20:26:19] <Jymmm> Heh, I used the same CASE (different PS), and found it was the power switch button causing the problem
[20:27:06] <pfred1> I figure the filter caps in it were shot to the point that it killed the filter caps on the motherboard due to ripple stress
[20:27:29] <Jymmm> pfred1: UK ?
[20:27:42] <L84Supper> and the use of just plain crappy caps
[20:27:58] <xyzee> Pfred1 Two seperate machines. I'm a chippy and not much of a geek I just want a good box
[20:28:03] <pfred1> L84Supper oh it was a lousy PSU from the get go but it did work for quite a while
[20:28:28] <pfred1> xyzee LinuxCNC runs well on some Intel atom ITX systems
[20:28:56] <pfred1> if you are buying a machine specifically to run LinuxCNC that seems like the hot setup to me today
[20:29:12] <Jymmm> pfred1: You in the UK ?
[20:29:19] <pfred1> Jymmm no
[20:29:39] <PCW> Also known to workwell on E45M1-M PRO
[20:29:56] <pfred1> xyzee ask andypugh he is in your neck of the woods
[20:30:09] <Jymmm> and is archivist
[20:30:14] <pfred1> he has a mad atom setup too as I recall
[20:30:49] <xyzee> Pfred1: So I buy an intel atom mother board. What else do I need (stupid question I know)?
[20:31:08] <andypugh> xyzee: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Mount-D525MW-Mini-ATX-Motherboard/dp/B0041RSC94/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363120246&sr=8-1
[20:31:40] <andypugh> xyzee: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KingSpec-8GB-SATA-DOM-MLC-KDM-SA-51-08GMJ-SSD-42-MB-S-Solid-State-Disk-/190703794464?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item2c66d4f920
[20:31:58] <pfred1> what the heck does LinuxCNC need Xinerama for?
[20:33:05] <cradek> pfred1: splash screen
[20:33:16] <pfred1> cradek classic
[20:33:48] <andypugh> xyzee: http://linitx.com/product/11459
[20:39:33] <xyzee> andypugh: you're doin me proud thanx. So that is a board, a hard drive thing, and a power supply. Plus memory, is that everything aprt from leads?
[20:39:47] <pfred1> xyzee andypugh is the man
[20:41:23] <pfred1> xyzee if you ask him he even has a picture of what it should all look like when you're done :)
[20:41:27] <andypugh> You need a 12V supply, but I am guessign you probably already have one.
[20:43:25] <xyzee> andypugh: what is the 12V 80W PicoPSU-80 you listed earlier?
[20:43:44] <andypugh> xyzee: You will also need some way to get the initial boot data in. Do you have an existing Linux installation, or an SATA CD-rom drive?
[20:44:05] <andypugh> That is something that converts 12V to all the voltages a PC needs.
[20:44:26] <andypugh> You _could_ use a completely normal PC power supply, if you prefer, and have the space.
[20:44:47] <pfred1> xyzee don't be cheap buying a PC PSU though
[20:45:02] <xyzee> I have usb with persistant ubuntu & linuxcnc
[20:45:50] <andypugh> pfred1: This one is a pretty colour: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ACE-500W-PSU-12cm-Red/dp/B005FW0Q48/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1363121096&sr=8-4
[20:46:25] <pfred1> andypugh I don't know about that thing there ace
[20:47:20] <pfred1> doubles as a smoke machine I'm sure
[20:47:44] <pfred1> plug it in a disco ball pops out then comes the smoke
[20:49:05] <andypugh> Given that the Atom probably needs about 30W of power, it should be fine.
[20:49:33] <pfred1> that much?
[20:49:41] <pfred1> I heard those things needed like 8W
[20:50:16] <pfred1> thing is you are supposed to size an SMPS to the load too big is no good
[20:50:34] <pfred1> though that 500W is probably more like 250W
[20:50:53] <PCW> 500 W of peak music power
[20:51:12] <pfred1> yeah that thump when you press the power button
[20:51:30] <tjb1> I used this cave with my intel - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[20:51:41] <tjb1> case ^
[20:52:06] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/a4oevjy all will runs rings around the Atom boards
[20:52:14] <pfred1> tjb1 drag your club back by the fire
[20:52:31] <tjb1> :(
[20:53:26] <pfred1> the new atoms scare me with their limited graphics support
[20:54:19] <L84Supper> Intel doesn't want Atom competing with their higher margin cpus and chipsets
[20:54:21] <pfred1> L84Supper I'm trying to get my AMD going right now just hung up on my phthon version
[20:54:25] <pfred1> python even
[20:54:45] <pfred1> Intel had better realize the days of the high end CPU are over
[20:55:06] <andypugh> xyzee: This MB has done well in LinuxCNC tests too: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005O43SI8/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=11068593125&ref=asc_df_B005O43SI8
[20:55:11] <pfred1> people are making HTPCs out of RasPIs
[20:55:34] <L84Supper> nah, Intel will just find some way to cheat again
[20:56:00] * Loetmichel had just installed an old Esprimo 5600 for his new CNC at the company
[20:56:07] <andypugh> L84Supper: Well, those motherboards won't do too well without a CPU installed :-)
[20:56:53] <L84Supper> andypugh: next thing you're going to say is that they need power supplies as well
[20:57:58] <andypugh> Just making it clear that the prices there are better than the Atoms mainly because there is no CPU.
[20:58:18] <andypugh> Any idea what those AMD setups give for Latency?
[20:59:02] <PCW> the E45M1-M PRO is about 10,10 usec
[20:59:11] <L84Supper> usually around 5us or better for all the boards we have used
[20:59:23] <Loetmichel> at ~50 eur they are as cheap as it gets... -> http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/MTM5ODkyOTk-/Computer_und_Zubehoer/Hardware/Komplett_Rechner_Barebones/Desktop_PC_FUJITSU_SIEMENS_ESPRIMO_E5600_XP_COA.html
[20:59:38] <PCW> and will run 8KHz servo thread (the atoms blow up at ~2 KHz)
[20:59:40] <pfred1> which RTAI test shows the latency figures that the latency test in LinuxCNC does?
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[21:02:51] <L84Supper> http://tinyurl.com/c8p6rfa these are just the boards with the onboard (no socket) APU
[21:03:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: How does that 12V atom board work out?
[21:04:43] <andypugh> The DN2800? It's fine for what I am using it for, but I can't recommend because of the graphics driver issue. Not tried it with Precise yet, though.
[21:05:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: and latency?
[21:07:34] <pfred1> grrr I'm stumped configure is bombing on configure: error: Python version too old (2.4 or newer required) and i have Python 3.2.3 installed
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[21:10:27] <PCW> Doesn't linuxCNC need Python 2.X?
[21:10:39] <pfred1> PCW I am beginning to think that
[21:10:51] <PCW> 2.7 maybe
[21:11:04] <pfred1> http://pastebin.com/FXWc6jYi
[21:11:52] <pfred1> I think i can install another python and direct configure to use it somehow
[21:12:17] <PCW> 2.x and 3.x are not very compatible
[21:12:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: what ver of lcnc?
[21:12:50] <pfred1> Jymmm a git I pulled a couple of hours ago
[21:12:59] <Jymmm> pfred1: which one?
[21:12:59] <alex_joni> Jymmm: it's post 2.4.x if it's lcnc
[21:13:31] <pfred1> Jymmm I imagine a recent one
[21:14:00] <pfred1> git clone git://git.linuxcnc.org/git/linuxcnc.git linuxcnc-dev
[21:15:36] <pfred1> whatever that gets is what I got
[21:16:45] <pfred1> cat VERSION = 2.6.0~pre
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[21:20:23] <Jymmm> if ! $PYTHON -c 'import sys;raise SystemExit,sys.hexversion<0x2040000'
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[21:25:01] <pfred1> so what version of Python should i install in order to satisfy LinuxCNC's configure?
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[21:27:29] <PCW> my linuxcnc install has 2.6.5
[21:28:11] <pfred1> I can get a 2.6.8
[21:28:34] <pfred1> let me give that a shot and see what happens
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[21:33:40] <Jymmm> I wonder if 3x has a different way of reporting it's version becasue I can't see anything in that line above that would indicate a ceiling
[21:34:25] <pfred1> beats me I'm trying to figure out how to install a parallel version of Python
[21:34:34] <Jymmm> This is the only other thing I saw, but no indication of a version limitation that I could see... http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob_plain;f=lib/python/nf.py.in;hb=a667bfed44ac00eeaeab85fda8abfb50c3a9b30d
[21:34:49] <Jymmm> why parallel? Remove 3 install 2 ?
[21:35:51] <Jymmm> but dont listen to me, I know nuttin
[21:37:52] <PCW> Jymmm: looks like the line raised a syntax error in python 3.x
[21:38:14] <Jymmm> PCW: Oh?
[21:38:24] <PCW> its really incompatible
[21:39:10] <pfred1> now i just have to figure out how to install all of the packages for this python that LinuxCNC needs
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[21:40:39] <Jymmm> PCW: Specifically http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/configure;h=eb8a340ebed5317570f7bd29464a69c6504d1f8d;hb=a667bfed44ac00eeaeab85fda8abfb50c3a9b30d#l9241
[21:40:58] <Jymmm> PCW: (if you care)
[21:42:24] <Jymmm> PCW: Maybe line 9245 needs to be changed to >2.4 and <3.0
[21:45:25] <pfred1> man people who program computers all ought to be flogged
[21:45:47] <pfred1> don't they realize other people need to use these things?
[21:47:23] <pfred1> oh man I've got a pit of snakes going on over here now
[21:47:34] <Jymmm> pfred1: LICK EM
[21:47:44] <pfred1> Available Python interpreters: [1] python2.6 [2] python2.7 [3] python3.2 *
[21:50:16] * pfred1 is emerging dev-python/numpy
[21:50:59] <pfred1> and Doc Sneezy and Grumpy too!
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[22:02:32] <kanzure> well, #reprap has a lot of people building things
[22:02:44] <kanzure> wow i was backscrolled pretty significantly.
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[22:20:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:20:58] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: GN9
[22:21:09] <DJ9DJ> nighy jymmm
[22:21:11] <DJ9DJ> +t
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[22:31:14] <pfred1> I am coming to the conclusion that anyone who uses Gentoo as a desktop OS is flipping cracked in the noggin
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[22:33:30] <Jymmm> lol, that's why you dont use gentoo
[22:33:41] <Jymmm> unless you're a serious tweeker
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[22:34:14] <pfred1> that other box became rather preoccupied
[22:34:30] <L84Supper> kids today have no backbone
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[22:40:08] <t12> just hand build parallel python version
[22:40:09] <t12> out of system
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[22:54:24] <pfred1> I ain't gonna declare victory quite yet but I think I may have just figured it out
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[23:05:04] <pfred1> I think I'm going to put out a Linux distro based on Gentoo and I'm going to call it Video Poker Linux where you type a command, hit enter, then see if you get what you want out of it after watching the screen scroll for a while
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[23:24:27] * Jymmm lol @ pfred1
[23:24:43] <Jymmm> pfred1: GentooCraps
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[23:25:22] <pfred1> Jymmm yeah the gaming commission had better not get wind of me running this stuff they'll want their cut
[23:25:49] <Jymmm> stay out of NV and NJ
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[23:26:28] <pfred1> someone just told me to, "install boost with the python flag enabled" but I didn't have the heart to say to them that I have no idea what that means
[23:26:34] <pfred1> PC LOAD LETTER!
[23:26:52] <Jymmm> refill with legal
[23:27:07] <Jymmm> or tabloid
[23:27:09] <pfred1> WTF does that mean??
[23:27:23] <Jymmm> refill ptinter with letter sized paper
[23:27:32] <Jymmm> 8.5 x 11"
[23:27:53] <pfred1> yeah i have the printer that says that so I know what it means but I don't know what "install boost with the python flag enabled" means
[23:28:03] <pfred1> PC stands for Paper Cassette
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[23:28:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: and you dont know how to google?
[23:28:38] <pfred1> sure
[23:28:42] <Jymmm> https://www.google.com/search?q=python+boost
[23:29:00] <pfred1> I've hit 6 pages so far that give vague reference to it but no command example
[23:29:25] <pfred1> I need python+boost on Gentoo
[23:29:44] <Jymmm> you build it yourself, thats what gentoo is all about
[23:30:18] <pfred1> actually gentoo is all about using their screwball portage scheme which looks like it was documented by spastic autistics
[23:31:09] <pfred1> and it has all recently changed but none of the documentation has been updated to reflect any of those changes!
[23:31:37] <pfred1> good times, good times ...
[23:32:07] <Jymmm> http://gentoo-portage.com/USE
[23:32:27] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, you picked the most sadistic distro, what do you expect?
[23:32:36] <Valen> now this i can see working for emc if people get it running on arm https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieboard%20Developer%20Board
[23:32:48] <Valen> a whole bunch of real GPIO pins
[23:33:05] <Valen> 4gb onboard flash, 1gb of ram
[23:33:09] <pfred1> Jymmm well so far the numbers I've seen might make it all worthwhile
[23:33:51] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JEPeeohYs
[23:34:03] <pfred1> Jymmm building a whole system march=native is pretty impressive
[23:34:06] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Got a minute?
[23:34:16] <JT-Shop> one or three
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[23:34:49] <tjb1> What am I missing that offset, volts high, volts low and volts ok do not work?
[23:35:34] <FinboySlick> Valen: Is there a workable non-X version of LinuxCNC these days?
[23:36:28] <FinboySlick> For little boards, I'm thinking having the display/controls on a separate machine would be an advantage.
[23:36:35] <JT-Shop> I'd guess some hal would be needed to calculate the volts stuff... I'm not sure if there is an offset pin... I might have did that for testing
[23:36:35] <pfred1> Jymmm trouble with that page you linked to is there is no information regarding python and boost
[23:37:28] <pfred1> FinboySlick there is a terminal front end for LinuxCNC I think
[23:38:11] <FinboySlick> pfred1: I've seen some Curses based interface, but I didn't know if they were kept current.
[23:38:28] <pfred1> FinboySlick they should work
[23:39:19] <tjb1> JT-Shop: No pins for the volts either, guess I would some type of if statement to see if volts are higher or lower than the requested?
[23:39:20] <FinboySlick> Oooh, that cubieboard has onboard flash too.
[23:39:30] <FinboySlick> That's cool.
[23:40:15] <pfred1> FinboySlick I use tkemc on my one machine because it can't handle the GL Axis uses
[23:40:29] <JT-Shop> the thc comp does have the calculated volts out pin
[23:41:04] <pfred1> FinboySlick and AFAIK tkemc hasn't been developed for quite some time now still works though
[23:41:49] <tjb1> JT-Shop: I mean the volts high, volts low or volts ok
[23:42:04] <JT-Shop> you would have to roll up some hal for that
[23:42:18] <FinboySlick> It wasn't really that involved but my last attempt at building it (on an embedded x86 board) made it feel like a complete mess of dependencies. I didn't explore much of the ./configure options though.
[23:42:18] <tjb1> ill just do an if statement in the comp
[23:42:53] <tjb1> I tried to do .750 at 140 volts and it brought the torch too high, 125 cut great….not so sure about the hypertherm cut chart unless it is different for hand vs machine torch
[23:43:32] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Groovy tune, btw.
[23:43:35] <JT-Shop> I just use the chart in the manual
[23:43:40] <JT-Shop> FinboySlick: thanks
[23:44:13] <Valen> FinboySlick: that thing would have the herbs to run axis at the same time
[23:44:16] <JT-Shop> the charts are a guide but I find the 1250 charts to be spot on
[23:44:25] <tjb1> I checked the voltage out of the plasma cutter and its dead on with the computer
[23:44:31] <tjb1> but .75 is a bit much for 45 amps too
[23:44:42] <JT-Shop> well yea
[23:45:26] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577438_10200439780533044_1906476485_n.jpg
[23:45:30] <tjb1> Did a nice cut though
[23:45:53] <JT-Shop> looks good
[23:46:18] <FinboySlick> Valen: Yeah definitely.
[23:46:25] <FinboySlick> A10 is a pretty nice chip.
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[23:46:55] <tjb1> I think I am done bugging you about the thc now :)
[23:47:04] <tjb1> I just have to get a new atx in the box and it should be done
[23:47:21] <pfred1> I need to step back from this dependency stuff now myself
[23:47:25] <JT-Shop> mobo not well?
[23:47:50] * FinboySlick got one of these http://bugasalt.com/.... It's incredibly satisfying when it works, but I think candian flies are too tough.
[23:48:40] <FinboySlick> It'll strip (cheap) varnish off of moldings but I think the air gets there before the salt.
[23:48:42] <JT-Shop> candian gas guages don't work either
[23:48:42] <tjb1> The one that was powering the breakout boards, fans, thc a-d, limit and probe switches kept shutting off
[23:49:09] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Hehe, you bought a GM car?
[23:49:19] <JT-Shop> Can Am Spyder
[23:51:32] <FinboySlick> And to be uselessly patriotic: The canadian flies work fine. It's the US gun that doesn't ;)
[23:51:43] <FinboySlick> Well, not often enough.
[23:51:52] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:52:19] <FinboySlick> Holy crap, how long is that song?
[23:52:22] <JT-Shop> as I recall the Alaskan flies are quite big
[23:52:27] <JT-Shop> 44 minutes
[23:52:42] <FinboySlick> Yeah, I just checked.
[23:52:58] <tjb1> JT-Shop: How do you price plasma work?
[23:53:04] <JT-Shop> here is a shorter one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYomv4c7BkU
[23:53:11] <JT-Shop> tjb1: tell me the name of it
[23:53:22] <tjb1> the name?
[23:53:34] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Well, I'll finish this one first, it's pretty cool...
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[23:53:50] <JT-Shop> by the Feed rate and setup time
[23:53:56] <JT-Shop> yea, I like it
[23:54:39] <JT-Shop> and how much the customer helps and or directs
[23:54:43] <tjb1> so cutting time and time spent with cad/cam
[23:54:52] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:55:04] <JT-Shop> and the number of parts
[23:55:29] <tjb1> Can you share your rate?
[23:56:14] <JT-Shop> it varies quite a bit but for a buisness it is $1
[23:56:22] <FinboySlick> Valen: You work on embedded boards like that often?
[23:56:30] <Valen> not that one yet
[23:56:41] <tjb1> $1 a minute?
[23:56:46] <JT-Shop> aye
[23:56:58] <JT-Shop> your quick today :)
[23:57:06] <FinboySlick> Valen: I was a bit curious about registering platform devices and gpio.
[23:57:13] <tjb1> 1 final question, is there a way to limit acceleration with the height adjustments
[23:57:21] <Valen> registering platform devices?
[23:57:47] <FinboySlick> Valen: As per CONFIG_PPS_CLIENT_GPIO in later kernels.
[23:57:53] <JT-Shop> thc.correction-vel float rw
[23:57:54] <JT-Shop> The amount of change in user units per period to move Z to correct
[23:58:04] <tjb1> Yes
[23:58:08] <Valen> over my head i'm sorry ;->
[23:58:13] <FinboySlick> I have a GPS with pps laying around and a neat little board that could act as a time server.
[23:58:19] <tjb1> Id like that to be proportional but it gets to a point where its above the speed the stepper can start at
[23:58:39] <FinboySlick> But it apparently can't be as nice as modprobe themodule gpio=thisone
[23:58:47] <tjb1> I know I can adjust that proportion but just wondering if there was a way to slow the accel down
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[23:59:28] <JT-Shop> just limit the accel for the stepgen