#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-02-22

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[00:27:45] <skunkworks> logger[p
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[02:27:40] <Jymmm> Ok, who shops at ASDA ?
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[02:33:06] <tjb1> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fxcumkrneq4rcai/Screen%20Shot%202013-02-21%20at%209.29.02%20PM.png
[02:33:12] <tjb1> Does that look like an o-ring on the end of that?
[02:34:09] <Valen> the little black thing? yeah
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[02:35:10] <tjb1> Im trying to get the length of threads on the end of that
[02:35:16] <tjb1> Is that a standard?
[02:35:57] <Valen> nfi
[02:36:58] <tjb1> nfi?
[02:38:51] <tjb1> http://www.mcmaster.com/#cadinlnord/5225k503/=lkytwj
[02:39:52] <Valen> no "fine" idea
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[03:22:53] <uminded> Hello, I have a working Xenomai kernel on my A13-Olinuxino board. is their any good resources on compiling linuxcnc on arm boards? (armv7t-a)
[03:31:27] <uminded> anybody alive in here?
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[03:40:53] <tjb1> Yes but I can't help you
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[04:22:08] <r00t4rd3d> there is some raspberry pi tuts on doing it
[04:22:11] <r00t4rd3d> probably be the same
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[04:22:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://raspberrypi.org/phpBB3//viewtopic.php?f=37&t=14122
[04:24:40] <r00t4rd3d> http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/
[04:24:51] <r00t4rd3d> thats another thing you could try
[04:25:09] <r00t4rd3d> " Project utilize Linux kernel version 2.6.35.9 with i-pipe and Xenomia support"
[04:26:35] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: router running yet?
[04:27:16] <r00t4rd3d> tomorrow i am going to cut some jobs
[04:27:44] <tjb1> What did you just get extended carriages?
[04:27:52] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[04:28:03] <tjb1> How much travel did you lose
[04:28:08] <tjb1> 4"?
[04:28:28] <r00t4rd3d> none really
[04:28:35] <tjb1> Oh yeah, Torque released an update and it now works with my phone
[04:30:13] <r00t4rd3d> send me the apk
[04:30:32] <tjb1> Where is that at on the phone?
[04:30:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1563894
[04:31:03] <r00t4rd3d> thats the easiest way
[04:31:36] <r00t4rd3d> a good way to keep a personal copy of paid apps to for backup
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[04:32:03] <tjb1> google does that for me
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[04:33:10] <r00t4rd3d> see they barely got ubuntu running on the n7
[04:33:33] <r00t4rd3d> you see googles new toys?
[04:33:57] <r00t4rd3d> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_acer_c710
[04:34:06] <tjb1> the n7 is slow enough
[04:34:22] <tjb1> Glorified tablet?
[04:34:35] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think its touch screen, not that model
[04:34:43] <r00t4rd3d> https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_pixel_wifi
[04:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> that one is
[04:34:51] <tjb1> Well it can only do what a tablet can basically
[04:35:04] <tjb1> lol $1300
[04:35:58] <r00t4rd3d> did you read the specs?
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[04:36:41] <tjb1> Who cares, it cant run solidworks
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[04:37:16] <r00t4rd3d> yeah thats a deal breaker
[04:37:28] <tjb1> Its just a really expensive tablet
[04:37:41] <r00t4rd3d> i just want the 199 acer
[04:37:53] <r00t4rd3d> you can run all the android apps on it
[04:39:05] <r00t4rd3d> funny it cost more then my Nexus 7 :/
[04:39:10] <r00t4rd3d> i mean less
[04:39:29] <tjb1> Well if the nexus 4 worked on CDMA I would have it...
[04:40:50] <tjb1> How is the Nexus 4 $350 and the SGS3 is $600
[04:40:55] <r00t4rd3d> i brought my machine inside for the night to warm up
[04:41:27] <r00t4rd3d> google would rather have the world own their device then make a profit
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[04:42:07] <r00t4rd3d> i will never purchase another samsung device in my life
[04:42:45] <tjb1> Why?
[04:43:28] <r00t4rd3d> they only care about their new line of shit
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[04:43:43] <tjb1> Thats why you run custom roms
[04:43:48] <tjb1> Im on a 4.2.1 rom
[04:44:01] <r00t4rd3d> soon as they release the galaxy iv they will forget about the s3
[04:44:12] <tjb1> I dont need them :P
[04:44:27] <tjb1> I certainly dont need Verizon either
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[04:45:59] <r00t4rd3d> i had 4.2.2 installed 10 minutes after it was released
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[04:46:17] <r00t4rd3d> reason 1 to get a google branded device
[04:46:44] <uw> anyone ever use littlemachineshop website?
[04:46:49] <uw> for buying stuff?
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[05:13:39] <t12> https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/166717_427975530617876_1356157159_n.jpg
[05:16:49] <r00t4rd3d> repost
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[05:18:56] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/521399_10200311156637527_1097882799_n.jpg
[05:19:07] <tjb1> I want that but it said something about curdled milk so no
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[05:37:53] <r00t4rd3d> baileys and amaretto
[05:39:27] <r00t4rd3d> schnapps for the clear
[05:40:39] <r00t4rd3d> half full with schnapps the other half baileys then slowley drizzle in some amaretto
[05:41:24] <r00t4rd3d> douche bag bar drink
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[05:41:57] <tjb1> lol
[05:42:49] <r00t4rd3d> a cement mixer is curdling one.
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[05:43:29] <r00t4rd3d> or just do a shot of baileys and a shot of lime juice
[05:43:30] <tjb1> And this curdled stuff taste like?
[05:43:30] <r00t4rd3d> lol
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[05:45:15] <r00t4rd3d> get a girl drunk and give a cement mixed lol
[05:45:23] <r00t4rd3d> wow i fucked that up
[05:45:58] <r00t4rd3d> *get a girl drunk and give her a cement mixer
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[05:46:19] <r00t4rd3d> it will be funny for you
[05:46:37] <tjb1> Why is that
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[05:47:18] <r00t4rd3d> cause they are nasty
[05:47:41] <r00t4rd3d> its like oatmeal
[05:47:49] <tjb1> lol
[05:55:04] <tjb1> First time I have ever had something use 8gb...
[05:55:20] <tjb1> Solidworks feature recognition
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[06:20:56] <r00t4rd3d> i hate google doodles
[06:22:49] <Valen> heathen
[06:25:24] <toastyde1th> what is a google doodle
[06:26:30] <Valen> http://www.google.com/doodles/finder/2013/All%20doodles
[06:26:49] <toastyde1th> oh
[06:33:37] <uw> i swear some of these doodles are like "wtf is this person and why are they in a doodle?"
[06:33:56] <uw> I cant wait for the Van Halen and Slayer google doodles
[06:34:45] <t12> anyone ever dealt with small desktop furnaces for heat treating blades and the like
[06:35:02] <Valen> uw that i do have to agree with
[06:35:38] <uw> LOL are you DLR valen or Sammy valen?
[06:36:20] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Babylon_5_characters#V
[06:36:38] <uw> ooh i see
[06:36:59] <uw> i thought you were agreeing with the V halen comment
[06:37:12] <uw> and you were somehow related to V halen
[06:37:34] <Valen> nup
[06:38:02] <uw> just a garden variety Babylon 5 CNC machinist
[06:38:11] <Valen> yup
[06:38:24] <uw> which is cool
[06:38:30] <Valen> like me
[06:40:22] <uw> i must leave
[06:40:27] <uw> but i will return
[06:40:30] <uw> dont fret
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[06:47:45] <r00t4rd3d> http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/19/google-looking-for-google-fiber-engineers-in-waterloo/
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[07:41:23] <mrsun_> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/gear/gear1.html <-- hmm that "feed in distance" wtf do they mean by that? :)
[07:46:09] <cncbasher> mrsun_: it is how far to move the formtool in that is holding the 2 buttons , to give the correct profile
[07:46:30] <mrsun_> cncbasher, ye but what is the reference position ?
[07:46:41] <mrsun_> at the edge of the formtool buttons ?
[07:46:47] <cncbasher> yes
[07:47:03] <mrsun_> or from where they start to cut ?
[07:47:31] <cncbasher> ok .. from the start of cut of the blank
[07:47:43] <mrsun_> cause in the case of a no 1 cutter, the buttons are 44.8mm diameter, infeed of 3.934mm wouldnt even touch the blank :P
[07:50:52] <cncbasher> i usualy move the formtool until it just touches the blank and then measure from that point ... works fine
[07:51:38] <mrsun_> but 1 button should do the job equaly well shouldnt it ?
[07:51:44] <mrsun_> move in on one side, then the other
[07:51:57] <mrsun_> or is the cutting forces very high in the application so it bends the blank from the cutter ?
[07:54:00] <cncbasher> look for the workshop practice series book on gear cutting explains that process much more
[07:54:58] <cncbasher> yes the forces are enough to possible bend the blank if the gear is thin
[07:55:01] <mrsun_> ye ive been thinking of ordering that book also =) got some books from it and find them quite good =)
[07:57:01] <cncbasher> i found the gear cutting book , quite good at explaining why it is done a particular way and the reasons behind it
[07:57:45] <cncbasher> and of course the information and descriptions of the tools needed to make
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[08:01:27] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:01:42] <Jymmm> Morning Sunshine
[08:02:03] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: btw.... YOUR LATE!
[08:04:42] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm
[08:04:51] <DJ9DJ> yeah, maybe... had terrible sleep
[08:04:58] <Jymmm> ah
[08:05:15] <Jymmm> Well, wake up and go to sleep then
[08:05:31] <DJ9DJ> neighbour started in the middle of the night to bring out the slurry of his pigs
[08:05:45] <DJ9DJ> driving all the time in front of my window
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[08:06:18] <Jymmm> pigs? on how big a lot?
[08:06:50] <DJ9DJ> yes, farmer, has several thousands of pigs
[08:07:19] <Jymmm> and your house is right up against his property?
[08:07:48] <DJ9DJ> yep
[08:07:55] <Jymmm> strange
[08:08:18] <DJ9DJ> we also have a farm
[08:08:26] <DJ9DJ> but we do not have any animals
[08:08:31] <DJ9DJ> no stinky stinky
[08:08:48] <Jymmm> sure, but why would your house be right up next to your neighbors is what I dont get
[08:09:00] <Jymmm> how many acres do you have?
[08:09:11] <DJ9DJ> too few ;)
[08:09:47] <DJ9DJ> about 40 acres? (not sure, we use the unit hectares in germany)
[08:10:09] <DJ9DJ> we a three farmers here, living right next to each other
[08:10:18] <DJ9DJ> like three in a row ;)
[08:10:26] <Jymmm> Ok, so in all those 40 acres, you build your house right p against the pig farm fence line?
[08:11:22] <DJ9DJ> dont ask me why. the farms are at their place for >hundred years or so
[08:11:39] <Jymmm> k
[08:11:56] <DJ9DJ> in the early days, each farm was not that big like it is today
[08:12:07] <DJ9DJ> less animals, smaller buildings, less stinky stinky ;)
[08:12:32] <DJ9DJ> today, its more like factories for mass production than good old farms
[08:13:11] <Jymmm> bummer
[08:14:06] <DJ9DJ> yeah
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[08:17:29] * DJ9DJ yawns
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[08:31:21] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:36:51] <Jymmm> hi
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[14:23:41] <jensor> Inan effort to try to update my system I downloaded Ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc3-i386.iso got a checksum match, burnt a CD but cd will not boot.
[14:24:30] <jensor> I then copied file back to desktop and did a checksum and get a match which should verify the CD copy.
[14:25:06] <jensor> Anybody have any ideas on fixing this?
[14:25:22] <cradek> how did you burn it?
[14:25:48] <cradek> if you could copy an iso file from the cd back to the desktop, you definitely burnt it incorrectly
[14:26:16] <jensor> I used Roxio
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[14:26:39] <cradek> ok, I don't know what that is, but check google and/or ubuntu.com for cd burning instructions
[14:27:00] <jensor> ok, will do thanks
[14:27:02] <cradek> you want to see something like "burn from an image" instead of "put some files on the cd"
[14:27:34] <jensor> By the way will a DVD work in lieu of a CD?
[14:27:54] <cradek> I am not sure, but I think probably so
[14:32:34] <Tecan> meanwhile in #linuxcnc
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[14:46:52] <JT-Shop> jensor: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/Getting_EMC.html#_getting_linuxcnc
[14:47:10] <jensor> Cradek: I redid as you suggested. It is working and booting ok now
[14:49:20] <Jymmm> cradek: Somebody might want to put that "Burn an image " one-liner next to the download instructions.
[14:49:32] <Jymmm> It gets asked too often
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[15:02:45] <skunkworks> who uses commandline? ;)
[15:03:08] <Jymmm> Only the cool kids
[15:04:39] * Vq lives on the commandline
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[15:04:59] <skunkworks> did you see the xkcd?
[15:05:00] <skunkworks> http://xkcd.com/1168/
[15:05:19] <Vq> Graphical systems are for handling multiple terminal emulators.
[15:05:24] <skunkworks> heh
[15:05:53] <Jymmm> Vq: screen
[15:06:37] <Vq> Jymmm: I use screen(1) as well.
[15:06:56] <Vq> I also run terminals in emacs from time to time. :)
[15:07:33] <Vq> skunkworks: Thats a good one, I could be in trouble if I were using a non-standard keyboard. ;)
[15:07:49] <Vq> My fingers remember the tar flags.
[15:08:30] <Jymmm> You just double click in any terminal to untar
[15:09:39] <archivist> I still use the tar cmd line from my unix days, the linux version just copes :)
[15:09:52] <Vq> Jymmm: Why would you double click on the keyboard?
[15:10:47] <Jymmm> vg WHAT?! Why would you click on the kybd for?! You double click on the screen silly ;)
[15:11:28] <Vq> Damn touchscreens...
[15:11:44] <Jymmm> I never said anythign about touchscreens
[15:12:21] <Vq> Correct, I assumed you wanted it to cause an effect.
[15:12:45] <Jymmm> Redneck untar'ing by double clicking via pump shotgun.
[15:17:33] <Jymmm> Vq: http://i39.tinypic.com/28vdgk9.jpg
[15:22:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop talks about taking naps all the time... http://i44.tinypic.com/2r6mako.jpg
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[15:38:40] <jensor> Is it possible to configure system so that on a G0 call the velocity on the moving axis will move at its programmed max velocity instead of being limited to the slowest axis?
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[15:55:41] <L84Supper> does anyone know of a robot arm that has access to the encoders on each joint?
[15:56:22] <L84Supper> I need real time feedback for position from all the joints, not an update with coordinates every 1mS or so
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[16:22:26] <rizo> hello
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[16:25:21] <rizo> i have one question... encoder runs with base-period and bldc with servo period... when when bldc detects the index-enable FALSE, the encoder value may already change, so the ofset the bldc writes at that time may be wrong?
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[16:32:19] <rizo> i want to init the bldc. The init is done when bldc detects the index-enable low, and at that time stores the value of raw_count of encoder. I dont know how can this work correctly if the bldc runs with slower period than encoder, because the encoder raw_count can change several times before the bldc detects the index enable pin, and so it writes the wrong offset.
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[16:44:50] <pcw_home> The way index works with latch-on-index is that at the physical index mark, the encoder count is latched
[16:44:52] <pcw_home> then when the drive detects tha an index even has occurred, it offsets the position count with -latched count
[16:44:54] <pcw_home> (so it dose not matter how many encoder counts have occurred before it notices that an index has event has happened)
[16:46:44] <jr> http://pastebin.com/KQ4SPBTu is terminal session for my simple DRO which just uses python and HAL. It doesn't work on this Ubuntu 10, but does on 8. I have lapic in grub.
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[16:51:42] <pcw_home> I think I misunderstood the question. Yes the index enable is just sampled at 1 KHz or so meaning there will be a
[16:51:44] <pcw_home> small offset in the commutation depending on BLDC homing speed but this is unimportant for a couple of reasons
[16:51:46] <pcw_home> 1. BLDC homing speed is slow relative to the pole spacing
[16:51:47] <pcw_home> 2. errors of a few degrees in commutation are unimportant do to the
[16:51:49] <pcw_home> ~(1-cosine(err)) magnitude of commutation errors effect on torque
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[16:53:52] <jr> Can anyone give some direction on why this is happening?
[16:55:33] <pcw_home> post the boot dmesg maybe?
[16:56:03] <skunkworks> jr: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting#emc2_doesn_t_run_missing_lapic
[16:57:17] <pcw_home> yeah maybe your grub update didn't take
[16:57:18] <skunkworks> oh - sorry - didn't read back
[16:57:25] <skunkworks> Are you sure the grub took it?
[16:57:27] <skunkworks> heh
[16:57:39] <rizo> pcw_home, i saw the encoder has the count-latched OUT, but there is no count-latched IN at bldc component. How is the data transfered then?
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[16:58:07] <pcw_home> its not (but like i said its unimportant)
[17:00:50] <rizo> still dont understand, it is important for the bldc...the only data the bldc gets it the raw count
[17:01:19] <pcw_home> even a 2 degree error will cause only a loss of .06% torque so is unimportant
[17:01:33] <rizo> :)
[17:02:10] <pcw_home> Heck, hall commutated drives get by with 30 degree errors
[17:02:16] <rizo> bau i can run the bldc bith base period...than no info is lost
[17:02:28] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Hey now, that 0.06% torque loss could move a matchstick, such a waste!
[17:02:34] <rizo> can i run the bldc with base period...than no info is lost
[17:02:46] <skunkworks> rizo: your worrying too much
[17:03:04] <rizo> my encoder detects 0.5 um
[17:03:10] <pcw_home> or worrying about the wrong things
[17:03:13] <rizo> every cont is important
[17:03:18] <skunkworks> heh
[17:03:22] <pcw_home> not to commutation
[17:03:44] <rizo> ok
[17:03:47] <skunkworks> once the system is tuned - you don't have to worry about any inconsistancies.
[17:04:04] <rizo> is there something wrong if i run bldc with base period?
[17:04:23] <skunkworks> as peter said - hall comutated servos get by with 30deg errors and once the system is tuned - you don't know it.
[17:04:44] <rizo> i dont have hall sensors
[17:05:03] <skunkworks> no - you have it better using encoders
[17:05:05] <pcw_home> maybe a problem if your I/O is not fast enough
[17:05:29] <rizo> i am using fpga
[17:05:34] <skunkworks> heh - I need to read back more.. I don't know what the original problem is ;)
[17:05:38] <pcw_home> Is this a linear motor?
[17:05:42] <rizo> yes
[17:06:07] <pcw_home> so if you are using a FPGA, you dont want a base thread anyway
[17:06:29] <pcw_home> (it will just add jitter to your servo thread)
[17:07:33] <rizo> what is the usual servo thread frequency?
[17:07:55] <rizo> i am runny base thread at 2500 Hz
[17:09:07] <pcw_home> If you have a FPGA you probably only want one thread (servo thread)
[17:09:53] <rizo> I will do that. What should be the frequency?
[17:10:10] <rizo> Approximately?
[17:10:14] <pcw_home> additional thread will cause more jitter in the servo thread (which can run at 1 KHz to maybe 10 KHz depending on CPU and I/O hardware)
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[17:11:05] <pcw_home> for a linear motor in torque mode I would run it as fast as you can, this rules out Atom MBs)
[17:11:24] <pcw_home> say 5-10 KHz
[17:11:28] <rizo> i have atom
[17:11:36] <pcw_home> :-(
[17:11:43] <rizo> is 2.5 kHz to slow
[17:11:49] <rizo> is 2.5 kHz too slow
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[17:12:31] <pcw_home> depends on the mechanical bandwidth of your motor and the required performance
[17:12:59] <pcw_home> you will find out when you tune :-)
[17:14:40] <rizo> OK, will see, thank you
[17:15:31] <rizo> so the PID should feed the bldc.feed-angle
[17:15:33] <rizo> ?
[17:15:57] <pcw_home> fmech = {1\over 2 \pi} \sqrt {k\over m}
[17:15:59] <pcw_home> you want a sampling period 10 to 25 times this
[17:16:55] <rizo> and what is k?
[17:17:14] <skunkworks> question - if you do this on a lathe G02X3.8Z-4.0R4.0 but don't have g18 set - what would it do? would it actually run - but create a strait line in the x,y plane?
[17:17:28] <pcw_home> spring constant
[17:17:32] <skunkworks> *x and z plane
[17:17:46] <rizo> but i have no spring
[17:18:09] <rizo> is this magnetic spring?
[17:18:18] <jr> pcw_home: I'd have to reboot to get the boot DMESG. Didn't look at it before I cleared it.
[17:18:20] <pcw_home> you have a torque drive with torque proportional to error which is the same
[17:18:47] <jr> skunkworks: I did check, and lapic is in grub.
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[17:19:26] <pcw_home> pid out feeds bldc.N.value
[17:21:24] <rizo> why...this control the current through the motor
[17:21:45] <rizo> not the angle
[17:21:48] <pcw_home> bldc example:
[17:21:50] <pcw_home> freeby.mesanet.com/hm2-servogreen.hal
[17:22:23] <pcw_home> BLDC control the angle itself (from raw encoder counts in this case)
[17:22:46] <pcw_home> controls
[17:25:26] <rizo> ok, so is the motor shut down (no current) when there is no offset?
[17:26:01] <pcw_home> Yes, Thats the PIDs job
[17:26:36] <rizo> But why, in my case i want the motor to stand still, with full current
[17:27:00] <pcw_home> full current=full torque
[17:27:10] <rizo> isnt that how it suppose to be with linear motor
[17:27:27] <pcw_home> or full force in a linear motor case
[17:27:34] <pcw_home> No
[17:27:56] <pcw_home> Thats is how a step motor works
[17:28:00] <rizo> yes current = torque (but there is no torque if there is no offset of motor regarding to magnet)
[17:29:50] <pcw_home> so ~0 current if in position
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[17:30:52] <jr> http://pastebin.com/E7B3hHb5 is boot log from DMESG. I do see lapic there, once.
[17:32:28] <pcw_home> [ 0.000000] No local APIC present or hardware disabled
[17:32:30] <pcw_home> [ 0.000000] APIC: disable apic facility
[17:32:32] <pcw_home> looks bad
[17:34:43] <rizo> pcw_home, thank you for your help! Will try that, and report :)
[17:34:48] <pcw_home> Is there a BIOS setting for the LAPIC? If not the MB may be too old to run 10.04
[17:37:34] <jr> I'll research it.
[17:38:10] <pcw_home> rizo: good luck, bldc stuff is "interesting" :-)
[17:38:59] <pcw_home> bbl found sheet rock screw in a tire
[17:39:12] <pcw_home> :-(
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[17:53:31] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[17:56:53] <jensor> I haven't gotten a response since this AM so I'll try again. Is it possible to configure system so that on a G0 call the velocity on the moving axis will move at its programmed max velocity instead of being limited to the slowest axis?
[17:57:54] <IchGuckLive> yes
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[17:58:05] <IchGuckLive> the interpreter of 2.51 does this
[17:58:13] <IchGuckLive> 2.5.1
[17:58:30] <jensor> How do I determine which I am using?
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[17:59:04] <IchGuckLive> start a terminal and type linuxcnc -version
[17:59:36] <IchGuckLive> -v does it also
[17:59:55] <IchGuckLive> shoudt give you -> LINUXCNC - 2.6.0-pre0-3688-g75ddaf4
[18:00:56] <IchGuckLive> im on a old System :D O.O B) i know it
[18:02:01] <IchGuckLive> jensor: did you update to 10.04
[18:02:13] <jensor> yes
[18:02:25] <jensor> I have axis 2.5.0
[18:02:26] <IchGuckLive> so why not the buildbot
[18:03:14] <jensor> Just downloaded and am looking at it and not familiar with the term buildbot
[18:03:52] <IchGuckLive> hit my nick please
[18:04:23] <jensor> I don't understand your request.
[18:04:30] <jensor> what is nick
[18:04:41] <IchGuckLive> my name in the names frame
[18:04:49] <jensor> ok
[18:05:26] <jensor> i get drop down who is, and query
[18:05:35] <IchGuckLive> query
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[18:09:01] <Loetmichel> amsg re @ home
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[18:17:23] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: snow hight increses at 1cm per hour here
[18:18:11] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive; here not one flake
[18:18:18] <IchGuckLive> B)
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[18:47:57] <L84Supper> 10cm fell here last night
[18:48:51] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: go shuffel ;-)
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[18:49:13] <L84Supper> we have plows and snow blowers here for that :)
[18:49:56] <L84Supper> does anyone know of a robot arm that has access to the encoders on each joint? I need real time feedback for position from all the joints, not an update with coordinates every 1mS or so
[18:49:58] <IchGuckLive> yeah the US uses power not mand
[18:51:14] <AR_> L84Supper, build one
[18:51:40] <L84Supper> AR_: in a few weeks?
[18:52:13] <AR_> yeah
[18:52:24] <IchGuckLive> no snow in a vew weeks
[18:52:27] <L84Supper> not enough time
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[18:54:42] <L84Supper> http://www.staubli.com/en/robotics/6-axis-scara-industrial-robot/low-payload-6-axis-scara-robot/6-axis-industrial-robot-tx60/
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[18:57:07] <pcw_home> Probably quite a few robot arms use encoders, older one may use resolvers, newer high quality ones ones may use absolute patterned scale type encoders
[18:58:21] <L84Supper> staubli also uses fiber in the robot to make it more difficult to access the encoders
[18:58:39] <pcw_home> can't you use a 1 ms position update and interpolate in between?
[18:58:54] <L84Supper> we always have to modify the arms, still looking for something that might be easier
[18:59:46] <L84Supper> nope, need real time for sync, you can interpolate the positions between the position updates but it's not as accurate
[18:59:55] <pcw_home> If they are not geared up you need ~million count encoders
[19:00:33] <AR_> very simple
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[19:00:56] <AR_> why do you need 1ms
[19:01:02] <AR_> how fucking fast are you going to move it
[19:01:08] <AR_> less than 1ms*
[19:01:15] <L84Supper> think about a cnc mill with 1 ms updates for position while machining while trying to sync another machine or axis with a second tool
[19:01:41] <AR_> i think you are making it too complicated
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[19:01:59] <AR_> you're not going to have the robot hold the part while being machined, are you?
[19:02:01] <jr> Does Ubuntu 8.04 require LAPIC?
[19:02:10] <pcw_home> No
[19:02:37] <L84Supper> yes, but it's not being machined, it's being built (3d printed)
[19:02:56] <AR_> oh
[19:02:58] <AR_> hrm
[19:03:08] <jr> pcw: I assume you're answering to the LAPIC question?
[19:03:09] <pcw_home> I suspect interpolation will be better than you think
[19:03:15] <L84Supper> moving parts and moving deposition heads
[19:03:29] <AR_> why not just add other axis to your machine
[19:03:34] <AR_> it's basically the same thing
[19:03:35] <pcw_home> Yes, 8.04 LinuxCNC no lapic needed
[19:03:41] <jensor_> I need to access this AM;s discussion . how do I access history here
[19:03:45] <L84Supper> already been doing this, I'm just asking about arms :)
[19:03:46] <jr> Thanks.
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[19:04:22] <tjb1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgTtZXuj4w
[19:04:29] <pcw_home> And if 1 ms is not good enough. 1/2 ms will be 4 times better
[19:05:14] <AR_> well anyway
[19:05:23] <AR_> you cannot get continuous information
[19:05:28] <AR_> that's kindof impossible
[19:05:29] <pcw_home> and 4 KHz is 16 times better
[19:05:33] <L84Supper> the faster heads can move over 1 meter/sec
[19:05:56] <pcw_home> speed does not matter
[19:06:20] <L84Supper> if you can get the robot to update at 0.25ms thats great, but what if their controller tops out at 1ms
[19:06:43] <pcw_home> Dont use their controller, use LinuxCNC
[19:07:09] <pcw_home> I can run stuff at 8 KHz with a good MB
[19:07:36] <L84Supper> heh, now you're into trying to mod their electronics or just replacing it
[19:08:02] <L84Supper> lots of ways to skin this cat
[19:08:39] <jensor_> how do I access earlier discussion
[19:08:50] <AR_> scroll up
[19:09:11] <pcw_home> Bare robot with drives and sensors
[19:09:13] <pcw_home> jensor: http://psha.org.ru/irc/
[19:10:02] <pcw_home> must be some Chinese naked robot company (better not search for that)
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[19:10:27] <L84Supper> lol
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[19:10:55] <AR_> i'd be interested in a naked robot
[19:11:51] <L84Supper> something in female form that's affordable might change the future of civilization :)
[19:12:07] <jensor_> That link s most recent log is 2/14/2013
[19:13:35] <jensor_> I,m interested in this am and can only scroll up to where I most recently signed in
[19:14:02] <L84Supper> the results from "used naked robot arms" wasn't as scary as expected
[19:14:43] <pcw_home> jensor this is from the log:
[19:14:45] <pcw_home> [19:12:07] <jensor_> That link s most recent log is 2/14/2013
[19:14:46] <pcw_home> [19:13:35] <jensor_> I,m interested in this am and can only scroll up to where I most recently signed in
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[19:21:15] <archivist> jensor, http://emclog.archivist.info/
[19:21:36] <cradek> how many logs do we have anyway?
[19:22:48] <skunkworks> atleast 3
[19:23:19] <pcw_home> doesnt mhaberler run one too?
[19:23:28] <archivist> sufficient :)
[19:24:27] <skunkworks> I didn't know about archivists
[19:24:28] <archivist> each breaks for odd periods so another has the gaps
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[19:25:11] <archivist> my previous data needs fixing (dragging out the database)
[19:26:57] <cradek> we used to worry about one on dreamhost with linuxcnc.org, but why bother now?
[19:27:04] <cradek> i.e. thanks!
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[19:29:57] <jensor> Trying to install 10.04 LTS. Procedure hangs at "Prepare partitions" screen
[19:31:22] <jensor> Ran ok from live cd
[19:32:17] <jensor> Nothing appears in partition table
[19:32:44] <jensor> Is there any way ot testing hard drive?
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[19:37:20] <JesusAlos> hi
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[19:40:05] <Icekiller> guys .. i'm wondering about something right now i got m12 rod .. and i want to upgrade to tr12x3
[19:40:27] <Icekiller> how much mm does a tr12x3 move per rotation?
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[19:58:14] <cncbasher> Icekiller: 3mm
[19:58:58] <Icekiller> so right now i have a m12 rod its 1,75mm if i just change the rod with 3mm the same 1 turn will now move it 3mm instead of 1,75mm which would mean its lets accurate?
[20:01:08] <archivist> do not confuse precision with accuracy
[20:02:56] <Icekiller> what i mean is
[20:03:20] <Icekiller> my motor does 1 turn.. 1 turn @ m12 = 1,75mm, tr12x3 @1turn = 3mm
[20:03:51] <Icekiller> a motor can do 1/4 turns so m12 can do 0.4375mm and a tr12x3 would be 0,75mm
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[20:05:37] <L84Supper> it's funny, somebody mentions Linuxcnc to control something, them Mach3 comes up them people are off to write their own code for control
[20:05:48] <L84Supper> them/then
[20:05:51] <archivist> change the gearing motor to shaft
[20:05:57] <Icekiller> aha
[20:06:02] <Icekiller> thats what i don't _want_
[20:06:12] <L84Supper> I don't understand why people shy away from linuxcnc so often
[20:06:21] <Icekiller> L84Supper diffucility & maintenance
[20:06:27] <archivist> frightened
[20:06:30] <Icekiller> most people know how to reinstall windows & mach3
[20:06:43] <Icekiller> yet linux is something they heard of in the 90's that was difficult and hard..
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[20:06:48] <archivist> scared of teh linux
[20:06:57] <Icekiller> it also doesn't help that most users first attempt of linux is at an old pc with slow parts..
[20:07:01] <L84Supper> I can understand the jump to Windoze, but why start to write your own application?
[20:07:08] <cncbasher> more people know how to install windows more than mach3
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[20:07:25] <Icekiller> mach3 they just backup the xml ..
[20:08:05] <archivist> jt was making a xml to linuxcnc converter
[20:08:46] <L84Supper> somebody asked about controlling galvos with Linuxcnc for a printer, hours later somebody thinks they can write something better
[20:09:13] <archivist> dreams...people have them
[20:09:33] <L84Supper> heh, young and lots of time to dream
[20:10:30] <archivist> all those started projects, what percentage get finished
[20:10:32] <Icekiller> well
[20:10:44] <Icekiller> i'll probably go for gbrl with emc2 ;)
[20:11:30] <L84Supper> archivist: they tend to be FAB, free and broken
[20:19:09] <r00t4rd3d> would running linuxcnc off a usb drive fuck up my latency?
[20:21:08] <Icekiller> r00t4rd3d depends
[20:21:19] <Icekiller> if you don't use the swap @ usb stick but 100% at memory it should be ok
[20:21:29] <Icekiller> fyi i'm still surprised i've seen 0 rapsberry pi's :P
[20:21:39] <r00t4rd3d> no swap
[20:21:45] <Icekiller> and the stuff saying but its to sloww is bullcrap a old dos machine 386 can run a cnc machine.
[20:24:19] <Jymmm> People are awesome http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV7bUMFLwac
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[20:28:05] <cradek> L84Supper: NIH syndrome
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[20:28:22] <L84Supper> cradek: yeah that's a big one
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[20:29:40] <cradek> also there's currently a huge fetish market for low powered embedded stuff, which won't run linuxcnc, or will only run it shittily after much effort
[20:30:50] <L84Supper> that needs a separate PC as UI, since the board is only powerfulish enough to run the CNC
[20:30:53] <cradek> there's also a fetish market for tablets for some reason, look for more time and effort spent trying to use them with linuxcnc somehow, upcoming
[20:31:45] <cradek> L84Supper: yes, and now you've got two problems, haha
[20:31:52] <L84Supper> before the tablet craze i expected to be able to use them for machine controllers, but they never included the PCIe or GPIO
[20:31:53] <r00t4rd3d> i wish i could use my nexus 7 to run my cnc
[20:32:49] <r00t4rd3d> it can already run ubuntu
[20:33:00] <cradek> for years we've wished for enough cpu power to do things, now that it's here and cheap/free we want something else shiny, so meh
[20:33:37] <L84Supper> my thoughts were only for a low cost device with a touchscreen display that could do it all
[20:33:54] <L84Supper> and tablets never routed the GPIO
[20:34:02] <cradek> sure that'd be nice, but you get inadequate cpu and I/O with it, mostly because it's made for battery operation
[20:34:12] <PCW> Plug a cable in the SD card slot?
[20:34:46] <PCW> Realtime and high enough bandwidth
[20:34:47] <L84Supper> and even though AMD sells some APU's for about the same price as a Tegra soc, the tablets sell for hundreds more than arm
[20:35:28] <L84Supper> PCW: have you found any with SDIO fast enough?
[20:35:43] <PCW> SDIO is plenty fast enough
[20:36:21] <PCW> (as long as the driver owns the hardware and its not shared with on card stuff)
[20:36:31] <L84Supper> I thought there were driver issues
[20:36:44] <L84Supper> latency was slow
[20:36:54] <L84Supper> several milliseconds
[20:36:54] <Icekiller> r00t4rd3d
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[20:37:02] <Icekiller> i've actually made an app for mach3 to control it @ android
[20:37:03] <Icekiller> :P
[20:37:12] <Icekiller> basicly just send keyboard shortcuts xD
[20:37:20] <PCW> you would need a special driver and exclusive access
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[20:38:17] <PCW> A10 SPI is capable of 100 MHz!
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[20:39:14] <L84Supper> PCW: they got 4MHz GPIO toggle speeds on the A13
[20:39:30] <L84Supper> a13 is a10 minus a few sections
[20:39:45] <PCW> so SPI is a better bet probably
[20:41:16] <L84Supper> now that a10 boards are actually shipping I can try one, I do have an a10 netbook but it's really awful
[20:42:00] <PCW> I keep trying to get a cubieboard but the last batch sold out in one day
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[20:42:24] <PCW> (Yesterday)
[20:42:27] <L84Supper> they have a channel here #cubieboard
[20:42:57] <L84Supper> also #olimex has an a13 board with an a10 board in the works
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[20:43:03] <PCW> no Xenomai yet but being worked on
[20:43:28] <L84Supper> https://www.olimex.com/Products/
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[20:44:04] <L84Supper> but like cradek always mentions, why bother if the price is so close?
[20:44:42] <L84Supper> but a tablet for ~$100 with IO for controlling things, that has lots of uses
[20:44:48] <PCW> You need to save power for your KW servos
[20:45:04] <L84Supper> heh, not for CNC
[20:45:04] <Jymmm> s/K/M/
[20:45:38] <r00t4rd3d> you could probably use an arduino and grbl shield with a tablet
[20:46:35] <PCW> I'm not so much interested in running all of LinucCNC on a little machine but in running mhaberlers remote realtime portion
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[20:46:39] <L84Supper> http://sd.hypertron.com/sd_extender_card/ http://www.jinvanisystech.com/sd_extender.html
[20:47:14] <r00t4rd3d> pcw where is that project located?
[20:47:14] <L84Supper> we have applications for process control that come up all the time
[20:47:58] <PCW> mhaberlers head?
[20:48:02] <L84Supper> or smaller machines that are cost sensitive
[20:48:09] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[20:48:26] <L84Supper> it would be nice to have a standard little control with touchscreen to use
[20:48:41] <L84Supper> does his head have a wiki?
[20:49:08] <PCW> (will thunderbolt ever make it to pads?)
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[20:49:23] <L84Supper> I heard that the Pi and the beagleboard both work
[20:49:33] <jensor> trying to update to linuxcnc.org lucid base linuxcnc2.5 and it requests APT line. What do I enter there?
[20:49:43] <PCW> I notice some NUCs have Thunderbolt
[20:50:52] <L84Supper> we were just talking about a lapdock for the arm dongles
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[20:51:11] <L84Supper> no GPIO though using the dongles
[20:51:19] <L84Supper> USB and HDMI only
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[20:52:12] <PCW> well if you can run "machinkit" on a Raspi that does not add much to your cost
[20:52:37] <PCW> (with USB or Ethernet interface)
[20:57:58] <L84Supper> the other problem with tablets, even with Samsung that always used u-boot and published open docs ....
[20:58:27] <L84Supper> they closed and locked down the bootloaders and even Samsung closed the docs for any soc that was useful
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[21:02:34] <r00t4rd3d> running off usb doesnt seem to have any effect on my machine :)
[21:03:35] <fragalot> the smoothieboard looks interesting
[21:03:48] <fragalot> normally meant for reprap but I don't see why it couldn't be used for cnc instead
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[21:14:46] <Icekiller> fragalot
[21:14:48] <Icekiller> power for motors.
[21:15:41] <jensor> I am following the guide for installing 10.04LTS and am trying to get the latest software. The instructions say go to Administration-> Software Sources.I select the entry that says http://linuxcnc.org lucid base linuxcnc2.5. I then hit "Add" button. It then requests Enter complete APT line of repository that you wan to add as a source. Example given 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid main". Is that what I should enter? The
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[21:17:43] <Icekiller> http://www.wantmotor.com/ProductsView.asp?id=160&pid=80 i got those motors.. what kind of power & amp should i use realisticly?
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[21:30:17] <fragalot> Icekiller: i meant for IO, not for actual driving of servos/steppers
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[21:31:50] <Icekiller> fragalot
[21:31:57] <Icekiller> than just use an arduino..
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[21:32:13] <Icekiller> fragalot got facebook..? theres a computer numerical group where i post a lot of stuff
[21:32:13] <fragalot> smoothieboard is a lil' faster (well, a lot)
[21:32:24] <Icekiller> and a lot more expensive..
[21:32:24] <fragalot> Icekiller: I do, but I don't like using it
[21:32:30] <Icekiller> well use it
[21:32:34] <Icekiller> and check it out :P
[21:32:43] <fragalot> :P
[21:32:58] <Icekiller> it uses a stm32 if i'm not mistaekn (the smoothieboard)
[21:33:03] <fragalot> it does
[21:33:41] <Icekiller> like i said
[21:33:54] <Icekiller> if it was just aBOB i wouldn't mind it but it has build in stepper motors..
[21:34:02] <Icekiller> a4982 i think
[21:34:24] <Icekiller> max output of 6 amps 24v (i believe)
[21:34:43] <fragalot> i'd be surprised if it did 6A on the steppers
[21:38:27] <AR_> alright
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[21:38:34] <AR_> what should i make on my machine
[21:38:53] <AR_> so far i milled out a circle with radius .100
[21:39:27] <AR_> getting bored
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[21:44:35] <L84Supper> the smoothie and the 4pi are two more boards with software from scratch that for some reason wanted to reinvent the wheel
[21:45:01] <L84Supper> https://0xfb.com/shop.html
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[21:45:31] <L84Supper> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard
[21:46:34] <L84Supper> http://www.nxp.com/products/mosfets/standard_mosfets/BSP100.html#quickreference the mosfets on the smoothie
[21:49:48] <L84Supper> the rerap community tends to attract users and devs that don't value their time or anyone others time, and everything should cost 2 cents
[21:51:14] <Icekiller> AR_ roadrunner
[21:52:23] <AR_> a pic of a roadrunner
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[22:00:08] <Icekiller> yup :P
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[22:13:54] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:14:10] <L84Supper> http://elm-chan.org/works/vlp/report_e.html heh, this make far more sense than using silly Linuxcnc
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[22:18:44] <L84Supper> I haven't noticed any laser projectors that use more than 3 laser (RGB) for color display
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[23:05:48] <jdh> mine has a black laser
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[23:29:16] <Jymmm> jdh: O_o
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[23:36:30] <Jymmm> I have some SS Tool wrap than I can easily cut with scissors. Is there some practical way to "dull" the cut edges so it's not razor sharp by chance?
[23:38:10] <ReadError> cut some fine grit sandpaper ;)
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[23:50:38] <r00t4rd3d> run it along your tongue
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[23:55:58] <r00t4rd3d> bla, 1 more hour long cut to go
[23:56:10] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: you first... LICK IT!
[23:56:25] <r00t4rd3d> 32F
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