#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-22

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[00:00:02] <AR__> in the past month I have spent $675 on parts for my machine build
[00:00:05] <AR__> ......
[00:00:52] <ReadError> thats not bad
[00:00:56] <ReadError> what are you making?
[00:01:27] <AR__> a little mill
[00:01:34] <AR__> mostly out of aluminum
[00:01:42] <ReadError> wow from scratch ?
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[00:01:53] <AR__> yes pretty much
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[00:02:05] <AR__> ballscrews, supported shaft linear bearings
[00:02:51] <AR__> just bought a big ground flat aluminum 'base' for $40 on ebay
[00:02:54] <ReadError> any pics?
[00:03:08] <AR__> pics of some of the parts lol
[00:03:18] <ReadError> i feel like im cutting like those high speed machining videos on youtube, feels good
[00:03:58] <ReadError> i think delrin is probably my fav material to cut
[00:04:05] <ReadError> acetal*
[00:04:21] <AR__> here is just the x and y parts sitting on tope of each other for fun
[00:04:23] <AR__> http://i.imgur.com/DbGAq1u.jpg
[00:04:50] <ReadError> i better wait till this is finish cutting to open it ;x
[00:04:57] <AR__> http://i.imgur.com/P58Vl42.jpg
[00:05:42] <AR__> here is with the motor and belt sitting there before i put it together: http://i.imgur.com/2iL0mnJ.jpg
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[00:06:02] <AR__> and other parts you can see laying arounf
[00:06:04] <AR__> around
[00:06:06] <ReadError> im about to build a router
[00:06:14] <ReadError> i really want to go rack and pinion
[00:06:15] <ReadError> ;/
[00:06:24] <ReadError> but everyone is like no they suck
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[00:06:34] <AR__> depends how precise you want to be i guess
[00:06:46] <AR__> if you are just routing wood with big bits i dont think it would matter
[00:07:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/xOxh5cU.jpg
[00:07:37] <ReadError> nah not wood
[00:07:43] <ReadError> g10 and CF more than likely
[00:07:49] <ReadError> maybe some 6061
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[00:09:42] <AR__> then why a big rack and pinion
[00:09:49] <AR__> big parts?
[00:10:19] <ReadError> well i want atleast 24x48"
[00:20:27] <AR__> thats pretty big
[00:20:38] <ReadError> yea
[00:20:51] <ReadError> ok this HDPE is kinda like a game of, 'how fast can i push this'
[00:21:18] <Connor> Anyone have any ideas on engraving QR codes with a V-bit ?
[00:22:30] <AR__> lol
[00:22:38] <AR__> why are you engraving qr codes
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[00:28:56] <Connor> AR__: Dog Tags.
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[00:31:56] <Jymmm> How difficult is it to work on/diagnose a diesel car/truck?
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[00:42:43] <Connor> any good free gif to dxf programs ? python or perl is fine.
[00:43:54] <r00t4rd3d> free yes, good no.
[00:44:25] <Connor> Shouldn't be bad.. black and white, 2 tone only..
[00:44:31] <r00t4rd3d> link to gif?
[00:44:42] <Connor> Goign to be a qr code.. will change.
[00:46:29] <r00t4rd3d> I use Vector Magic but thats not free
[00:46:45] <r00t4rd3d> and I dont think they have a linux version
[00:49:27] <Jymmm> Connor: Just use the TRACE utility inside of Inkscape
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[00:53:54] <Connor> Jymmm: was hoping to be able to automate it..
[00:54:16] <Jymmm> Connor: Not gonna happen
[00:54:54] <Jymmm> Connor: If you think you can live with "good enough", you CAN script Inkscape.
[00:55:33] <r00t4rd3d> Connor, link me to the gif
[00:56:19] <Jymmm> Connor: I personally have a large CLEAN vector library, but it can take housrs sometimes depending on what it is to cleanup node by node.
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[00:57:21] <Jymmm> Connor: Everyone has seen this... http://blog.millermedeiros.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/awesome_tiger.svg
[00:57:59] <Jymmm> Connor: But it's extremely bad and it really is this.... http://i48.tinypic.com/e8la2v.jpg
[00:59:21] <Jymmm> Useful for screen/print, but not anything tangible
[00:59:33] <Jymmm> or fabricated.
[01:00:15] <r00t4rd3d> I could make that workable
[01:00:45] <Jymmm> Go ahead and try
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[01:00:55] <r00t4rd3d> almost done
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[01:08:03] <jymmm> r00t4rd3d: how is it coming?
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[01:13:16] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igg5aS3FdGw#t=25s << cool sounding 8 bit tune
[01:14:19] <r00t4rd3d> I ran it through one time and didnt edit anything : http://i.imgur.com/QUeiM8u.jpg
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[01:14:42] <Tecan> ran it through the simulator ?
[01:14:52] <Tecan> whatcha using for that ?
[01:14:55] <r00t4rd3d> no, through my slew of apps
[01:15:09] <r00t4rd3d> vector magic and aspire
[01:15:43] <r00t4rd3d> I could work that to make it perfect
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[01:17:49] <r00t4rd3d> i had to covert it first from svg to png before vector magic
[01:20:28] <jymmm> If it's no longer vector, it can't be scaled.
[01:24:16] <r00t4rd3d> sure it can
[01:24:20] <r00t4rd3d> it is vector
[01:24:32] <jymmm> PNG is raster, not vector.
[01:24:33] <r00t4rd3d> i went from svg to png to dxf
[01:24:56] <jymmm> and lost all the outline for one.
[01:25:05] <r00t4rd3d> and Iam almost done with a proper rework
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[01:34:46] <r00t4rd3d> better: http://i.imgur.com/gBm8Ciw.jpg
[01:35:22] <tjb1> r00t4rd3d: Mine shipped
[01:35:29] <r00t4rd3d> yeah mine too
[01:35:41] <tjb1> but the jackass shipped it mail innovations
[01:36:19] <r00t4rd3d> i got a usps priority tracking #
[01:36:20] <tjb1> Im 2 hours away from allentown...
[01:36:36] <jymmm> r00t4rd3d: That's really rough
[01:36:54] <jymmm> just sayin
[01:37:18] <r00t4rd3d> yeah, there is much better lion art out there
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[01:42:56] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/PGuGYNd.jpg
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[01:44:51] <r00t4rd3d> A guy on Reddit is looking to have these made : http://imgur.com/a/vXh5y
[01:45:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.reddit.com/r/CNC/comments/1702gu/looking_for_cnc_services_from_rcnc/
[01:45:40] <r00t4rd3d> i guess he has the files if anyone wants some work
[01:47:33] <r00t4rd3d> "in aluminum alloy or plastic"
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[01:49:03] <ReadError> or plastic?
[01:49:03] <ReadError> lol
[01:49:19] <ReadError> its a tarp
[01:49:41] <r00t4rd3d> i hope you mean trap
[01:50:10] <ReadError> i say what i mean, and i mean what i say.
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[01:58:49] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/opNnoOx.gif
[01:58:52] <Tecan> how accurate woutl ultrasonic be fore measuring tool distance from surface ?
[01:58:54] <Tecan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Arduino-Ultrasonic-Module-HC-SR04-Distance-Measuring-Transducer-Sensor?item=250973476855&cmd=ViewItem
[01:59:32] <r00t4rd3d> i personally would not trust that for any type of cnc work
[01:59:56] <r00t4rd3d> those are more for proximity sensing robots
[02:00:02] <Tecan> yeah
[02:00:21] <Tecan> probably better off with a spst probe
[02:00:26] <ReadError> holy cow
[02:00:30] <ReadError> that just blew my mind
[02:00:33] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:00:34] <ReadError> how is that done
[02:00:51] <r00t4rd3d> if you see weird faces it means your gay
[02:00:56] <Tecan> root4rd3d i have one eye so that does not work for me
[02:01:01] <r00t4rd3d> LOL
[02:01:08] <r00t4rd3d> do you got a boat?
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[02:01:22] <Tecan> yarrr
[02:01:25] <ReadError> i almost lost an eye recently
[02:01:28] <ReadError> i got something in it
[02:01:29] <r00t4rd3d> maybe we can go pirating sometime
[02:01:34] <ReadError> well it got infected
[02:01:38] <ReadError> i think its getting better
[02:02:04] <r00t4rd3d> tecan how did you lose an eye?
[02:02:17] <toastydeath> who was cutting HPDE earlier, i forget
[02:02:26] <ReadError> me
[02:02:45] <ReadError> i hope UHMW poly is more stiff
[02:02:49] <ReadError> ill see tomorrow i guess
[02:03:33] <toastydeath> quick, unsolicited tip
[02:03:47] <toastydeath> if you have to re-cut something to bring it down in size, back your cutter off by like .0025
[02:04:06] <toastydeath> the spring pass can take off a shitload of material you were not expecting
[02:04:23] <Tecan> oh i see the weirdness now
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[02:05:21] <ReadError> toastydeath, it cut really nice
[02:05:29] <toastydeath> it usually does
[02:05:29] <ReadError> but its not rigid enough for my application
[02:05:40] <toastydeath> easy to cut, just like 6061, but springs like a motherfucker
[02:05:44] <ReadError> im hoping UHMW poly cuts as nice and is more rigid
[02:05:44] <r00t4rd3d> toys*
[02:05:46] <toastydeath> (just like 6061)
[02:05:47] <r00t4rd3d> FTFY
[02:06:04] <ReadError> r00t4rd3d, grown man toys
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[02:10:46] <ReadError> Tecan, from efnet?
[02:11:03] <Tecan> yessim
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[02:11:24] <ReadError> ah ok
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[02:24:27] <r00t4rd3d> i think taco bell allows their mexican staff to make their commercials
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[02:30:37] <Tecan> would it be possible to put 2 motors on the Y axis of my driver board by reversing some wires for the steppers ?
[02:30:50] <Tecan> to have the motors spin in opposite
[02:31:39] <r00t4rd3d> what driver board do you have?
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[02:32:13] <r00t4rd3d> any why 2 motors on your y?
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[02:32:46] <r00t4rd3d> if 1 isnt going to be enough, use a nema 34
[02:32:55] <Tecan> hehe
[02:33:15] <Tecan> i just happen to have those
[02:33:22] <Tecan> it was overkill for my laser
[02:33:30] <Tecan> 600 oz/in
[02:33:35] <r00t4rd3d> what driver board do you have?
[02:33:40] <Tecan> ummm one sec
[02:33:45] <r00t4rd3d> tb6560?
[02:33:45] <Tecan> mechantronics something
[02:34:18] <Tecan> all my other driver boards fried
[02:34:23] <Tecan> i've got a box of em
[02:34:29] <Tecan> those mechantronics are bulletproof
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[02:35:57] <Tecan> http://www.easy-cnc.com/4axisdriver.html
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[02:41:31] <r00t4rd3d> i like that it has a standard fuse and all the chips are easily replaceable.
[02:42:37] <Tecan> those allegra chips do fry though
[02:42:40] <Tecan> not easily
[02:43:05] <Tecan> i fried a few trying to figure out the wiring on my nema 34 lol
[02:43:56] <Tecan> actually i fried all of them bought a new board then fixed the old one
[02:44:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CNC-TB6560-3-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-1-Set-/281013443688?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416db4dc68
[02:44:39] <Tecan> now i use common sense hooking them up... datasheets etc..
[02:44:41] <r00t4rd3d> thats what i use
[02:44:59] <r00t4rd3d> $40
[02:45:16] <Tecan> whats that weird looking port on it ?
[02:45:29] <r00t4rd3d> game port
[02:45:34] <Tecan> sensors obviouslyo... oh
[02:46:22] <r00t4rd3d> for a remote pendant or game controller to manually jog
[02:46:39] <Tecan> wicked
[02:47:10] <Tecan> i lost all my heatsinks
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[02:52:26] <r00t4rd3d> look around, open your eye.
[02:52:50] <ReadError> i think you can use copper pennies
[02:54:15] <r00t4rd3d> how many copper heat sinks have you ever seen?
[02:54:36] <ReadError> uh
[02:54:38] <ReadError> zalman ?
[02:56:03] <r00t4rd3d> rare, most are made of aluminum.
[02:58:34] <AR__> no
[02:58:40] <AR__> aluminum is not conductive
[02:59:02] <jdh> really.
[02:59:07] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[02:59:12] <Tecan> its conductive just not magnetic
[02:59:14] <r00t4rd3d> Ill have what he is smoking
[02:59:49] <jdh> http://tinyurl.com/aca2cx5
[02:59:52] <pcw_home> copper is better but more expensive/heavier
[03:00:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink#Design_factors
[03:00:17] <r00t4rd3d> The most common heat sink materials are aluminium alloys.[
[03:01:22] <AR__> i machine my heat sinks out of O1 tool steel to tolerances under .00005
[03:01:47] <r00t4rd3d> Hmm I guess diamonds are good for heatsinks
[03:01:52] <jdh> why so sloppy?
[03:02:06] <r00t4rd3d> he likes his machined parts like he likes his women
[03:02:22] <jdh> paid for?
[03:02:37] <toastydeath> copper is twice as thermally conductive than Al, but Al is quite thermally conductive by itself
[03:03:00] <jdh> copper is prettier
[03:03:01] <toastydeath> and steel is dismal comparatively.
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[03:04:19] <r00t4rd3d> what a douche bag that "prince" harry is announcing to the world he killed a taliban.
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[03:05:00] <r00t4rd3d> eww you killed some poor, brainwashed sand dweller, GJ!
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[03:08:48] <r00t4rd3d> I want to go live in the woods and surround my cabin with anti government signs.
[03:10:23] <pcw_home> unabomber?
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[03:11:04] <jdh> nra?
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[03:16:10] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/Evqu3x2.jpg
[03:16:29] <Tecan> i just guessed where to put it and hit print
[03:16:49] <r00t4rd3d> shows
[03:17:08] <Tecan> did that one last week havnt printed a mark since
[03:17:57] <Tecan> might sand around the edges
[03:19:33] <r00t4rd3d> is that as dark as your laser will go?
[03:19:42] <r00t4rd3d> how many mw is it
[03:23:32] <Tecan> 40 watt...
[03:23:37] <Tecan> duno why its so dull
[03:23:59] <r00t4rd3d> going to fast?
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[03:29:11] <Tecan> even when i slow it down it still sending the same ammount of laser its probably in the code i need to modify
[03:29:20] <Tecan> nice to be able to do though
[03:29:28] <Tecan> gets only a little darke
[03:29:28] <Tecan> r
[03:30:12] <Tecan> it uses spindle speed :)
[03:30:17] <Tecan> to fire the laser
[03:30:45] <Tecan> iirc
[03:31:02] <Tecan> ya the pwm
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[03:32:27] <r00t4rd3d> 40w seems very low
[03:33:07] <Tecan> not if you think how well those cdrom lasers work
[03:33:15] <Tecan> blueray for example
[03:33:59] <Tecan> i probably have to tweak the pwm settings to get er upto 100% blast
[03:35:34] <Tecan> my laser as is fireing in test mode i cant even cut acrylic
[03:35:46] <Tecan> duno if it needs to be black or what
[03:36:16] <Tecan> it dents it a little bit but it would take forever
[03:36:55] <r00t4rd3d> whats your pulse width set to?
[03:37:35] <Tecan> not sure off hand probably between 5 and 10k hz
[03:39:41] <r00t4rd3d> go out of focus, lower the power and slow the speed down, reduce the ppi
[03:39:48] <r00t4rd3d> " "
[03:40:34] <Tecan> i've not really focused it properly yet lol
[03:40:47] <Tecan> i got rid of the cat eye burn and then left it
[03:41:16] <r00t4rd3d> should be out of focus
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[03:44:11] <Gene34> any gunsmith/machinists in here?
[03:45:05] <r00t4rd3d> ReadError, stfu.
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[03:46:25] <Gene34> are they hobbyist or professionals
[03:46:47] <r00t4rd3d> we are mainly professional hobbyists
[03:47:34] <r00t4rd3d> Ive never seen anyone talking about making guns in here, anyone but me :)
[03:48:14] <Gene34> do you make guns?
[03:48:19] <r00t4rd3d> no
[03:48:32] <r00t4rd3d> would like to
[03:48:45] <r00t4rd3d> if i had the right machine I could...
[03:49:10] <Tecan> i gun play i dont play with guns
[03:49:26] <Gene34> hence my next question... what is recommended for barrel action alignment on a bolt (blueprinting)
[03:50:09] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncguns.com/forum/index.php
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[03:50:22] <r00t4rd3d> Gene34, I think posting on that forum would be your best bet.
[03:51:05] <Gene34> fyi... watched 70 videos on youtube and have read several forum posts and understand what is needed for repair, but when aligning best barrel with action and cleanup etc would like a little more info
[03:52:03] <r00t4rd3d> so you are making one?
[03:52:09] <r00t4rd3d> got any progress pics?
[03:52:24] <r00t4rd3d> wanna make me an ar-15
[03:52:57] <r00t4rd3d> i need a receiver on the cheap :D
[03:53:27] <jymmm> Gene34: you need ar-15 plans?
[03:53:37] <r00t4rd3d> lol no
[03:54:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html
[03:54:11] <r00t4rd3d> you can get the ar15 plans there though
[03:54:34] <Gene34> AR15 is not for me...
[03:54:56] <Gene34> more like a rem700 clone with accuracy parts
[03:55:23] <jymmm> Gene34: for distance?
[03:55:56] <jymmm> I'd just be happy with unregistered legal firearms =)
[03:56:40] <jymmm> 22 9 and 12 would work for me =)
[03:57:57] <Gene34> yes... for distance
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[04:19:25] <Tecan> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170978738775
[04:19:33] <Tecan> if anyone wants one hehe
[04:19:50] <Tecan> bbl
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[04:39:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/gDNRRUQ.jpg
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[05:00:23] <MattyMatt> has anyone use a mag drill as a milling spindle?
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[05:01:29] <MattyMatt> last owner of my new mill used one, and it looked pretty good
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[06:13:54] <Connor> anyone have a good source for enclosures / cabinets. ?
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[06:19:11] <L84Supper2> Connor, what type, size etc etc??
[06:19:57] <Connor> Just looking for a good source of metal ones. Looking for a one to put my speed control in, E-Stop and maybe a few control buttons
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[06:20:21] <archivist> there is always the makeityourself department
[06:21:00] <Connor> Yea, I don't want to make it. I don't have a break.. not into doing sheet metal right now... and is way to large to mill something out.
[06:21:33] <archivist> or http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwg16.htm
[06:21:35] <L84Supper2> Connor: take a look at the Mouser website/catalog
[06:22:09] <L84Supper2> they carry Hammond and several others
[06:22:28] <Connor> Think like what you see on the back of a Tormach machine.. only smaller..
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[06:22:46] <Connor> because everything else is housed in a PC rack mount case.
[06:23:05] <archivist> dunno what the back of ... looks like
[06:23:17] <L84Supper2> steel pullbox from any electrical supplier
[06:23:27] <Connor> http://www.tormach.com/
[06:23:36] <archivist> or ally or diecast box
[06:24:16] <archivist> tormach shows the front!
[06:24:44] <Connor> behind the table, to the side of the column..
[06:24:47] <Connor> that's what I meant.
[06:26:56] <L84Supper2> heh, the site is still loading here
[06:27:17] <L84Supper2> nothing like hotel wifi sometimes
[06:27:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10b_1358831531
[06:27:25] <archivist> I shut it down quickly
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[07:21:43] <Tecan> http://i.imgur.com/gOGJoPP.jpg
[07:22:11] <Tecan> wonder how hard that would be because the surface is not entirely flat
[07:22:21] <Tecan> maybe they probe before they cut
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[07:24:29] <archivist> cut till the right amount of light shows
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[08:03:17] <Tecan> http://www.rtaautomation.com/modbustcp/files/Open_ModbusTCP_Standard.pdf
[08:05:49] <Tecan> who was it here that used canbus ?
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[08:10:21] <Tecan> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/TAIJIUINO-Due-Pro-Board-completely-compatible-with-Arduino-Due-/130825173003?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e75c9b80b
[08:10:27] <Tecan> 84 mhz not bad
[08:11:24] <Tecan> wait is that the same as this http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/arduino-due/
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[08:11:54] <Tecan> yep
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[08:31:00] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[08:35:17] <Tecan> moin
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[08:52:22] <DJ9DJ> moin
[08:52:42] <Tecan> moin moin
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[09:03:52] <theos> moiniom
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[09:10:38] <Tecan> would it be possible to drive 2 stepper motors at the same time in opposite directions with 4 transistors ?
[09:11:09] <Tecan> by reversing the motor wires or something
[09:12:01] <archivist> possible...but is it sensible
[09:12:39] <Tecan> rather than taking up 2 axis on a driver board
[09:12:53] <Tecan> they should step in unison right ?
[09:13:46] <archivist> it is very likely you dont want to do that because you will not want the exact phase to be the same
[09:14:24] <Tecan> on the same axis on the mill ?
[09:15:37] <archivist> just get a large enough single, for a gantry your phase is not identical side to side
[09:15:56] <Tecan> oh
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[09:43:32] <Tecan> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/87407-1_driver_2_stepper_motors_possible_will_work.html
[09:43:44] <Tecan> just found that, should be ok
[09:44:51] <Tecan> oops
[09:45:06] <Tecan> thats turning same direction
[09:46:01] <archivist> Why do you think you want to do it
[09:47:04] <Tecan> if you had to mill in a pinch
[09:47:14] <Tecan> im one of those redgreeners
[09:47:35] <archivist> answer does not match question
[09:47:57] <Tecan> i see what your saying now
[09:48:22] <Tecan> just move the motor where you need it
[09:48:37] <Tecan> run them in parallel
[09:48:49] <archivist> why why parallel
[09:48:58] <Tecan> like matching colors
[09:49:05] <Tecan> into the same socket
[09:49:16] <archivist> steppers are not made for parallel
[09:49:41] <archivist> there is more to this than the connection side
[09:49:48] <Tecan> :)
[09:49:53] <Tecan> i understand more now
[09:51:08] <Tecan> guess i like riding bikes off the paths into tree's lol
[09:51:54] <archivist> what is your "mechanical" reason for steppers in parallel
[09:52:20] <Tecan> having a tandom belt drive
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[09:52:37] <Tecan> where the motors are on one side pulling the table
[09:52:58] <Tecan> i put them on the outer sides of the rails
[09:54:03] <archivist> I think you need to clear up explanations "one side" means one, not one each on both sides
[09:54:13] <Tecan> same same though
[09:54:17] <Tecan> anyway i g2g
[09:54:22] <Tecan> thanks for the help
[09:55:30] <archivist> mechanical parallel needs the phasing to be correct of they drive each other and lose power unless they are correctly offset to their own home/0
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[10:24:16] <Tecan> http://superuser.com/questions/98274/why-are-there-so-many-pins-on-a-sata-power-connector
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[10:32:41] <Tecan> i got a request to do laser this up http://i.imgur.com/SGbKkZj.jpg
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[11:10:25] <Tecan> lol this is all there is other than the protocall for bluetooth hehe http://i.imgur.com/wyetjpH.jp
[11:14:12] <Tecan> not bad resolution out of this camera
[11:14:29] <Tecan> shrank it to upload but its 18 mp and spits out 6 mb jpegs
[11:14:58] <Tecan> ES REBEL T3i
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[13:55:31] <Tecan> BIT BANG
[13:55:50] <Tecan> anyone still kickin ?
[13:59:03] <ReadError> i kick 24/7/365
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[14:34:57] <mrsun> you must have huge leg muscle!
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[14:36:26] <Tecan> lol
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[14:39:30] <MattyMatt> repraps use steppers in parallel or even serial all the time
[14:39:54] <MattyMatt> it works fine with the nema17
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[14:42:21] <MattyMatt> and they'll get themselves in phase if you turn them on with the setscrews loose on one of them
[14:43:33] <MattyMatt> even with the tiny drivers typically used on repraps, there's no sign of back-emf issues
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[14:45:20] <MattyMatt> you could even drive 2 belts with 4 motors, all one one driver
[14:46:29] <mrsun> http://www.verktygsboden.se/20.0.0.1/18683/cache/18683_4bcdb84653265808f781d56a8b6b57c5.jpg hmm those vices .. i wonder how they are for milling applications =)
[14:46:42] <mrsun> dont know if the want to force stuff downwards
[14:47:04] <mrsun> (removing the degree plate thingie)
[14:47:10] <mrsun> so its flaton table
[14:47:18] <MattyMatt> that looks like a proper milling vice to me. you should see what I have to use
[14:47:31] <mrsun> i use a drilling vice now
[14:47:33] <mrsun> sucks like hell
[14:47:44] <mrsun> nothing goes in straight as jaws lift and all sort of stupid stuff
[14:47:56] <mrsun> and cost about the same as this vice does
[14:47:57] <mrsun> :P
[14:48:00] <MattyMatt> me too. shimming it helped a bit
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[14:48:43] <mrsun> tho i think that vice will take up just about the whole micromill i have :P
[14:49:49] <MattyMatt> as long as the table is big enough for the vice base to sit on, that's ideal isn't it?
[14:50:17] <mrsun> ye i guess =)
[14:50:30] <archivist> too much vice height can be a problem too
[14:51:09] <MattyMatt> that one clearly comes off the rotary base
[14:53:47] <Tecan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_chain_%28electrical_engineering%29
[14:54:41] <mrsun> http://automatic.jetshop.se/pub_images/original/3354100_01_311004_357.jpg also looks quite nice
[14:54:47] <mrsun> but cant replace the fixed jaw :P
[14:58:08] <MattyMatt> this is mine http://www.mptools.co.uk/images/380677.jpg
[14:58:21] <MattyMatt> £6.95 and worth every penny :)
[14:59:22] <archivist> ew, hide that from public view
[14:59:38] <MattyMatt> it was a good match for my plywood dremel pusher, but now I have the makings of a real mill
[15:02:59] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/milling-machine-base-/261151455705
[15:03:38] <mrsun> heh cool little machine
[15:03:41] <MattyMatt> real by my standards. the guy who sold it also had a bridgeport
[15:04:00] <archivist> dinky toy :)
[15:04:46] <MattyMatt> this is perfect size for me. it was right on the limit of what I could get in momma's car and upstairs by myself
[15:04:47] <archivist> far better than plywood
[15:05:32] <archivist> you can get bigger stuff upstairs by dismantle and carry smaller bits....trust me I know this :)
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[15:05:53] <skunkworks> -11F here this morning
[15:06:11] <archivist> 3 deg c indoors here
[15:06:21] <MattyMatt> I took this up in 2 pieces
[15:07:01] <MattyMatt> table was ~100lbs (hernia) and base was ~200 (broken toes)
[15:07:11] <archivist> I think my 5 axis was 4 bits
[15:07:25] <MattyMatt> I rolled the base end over end up the stairs
[15:07:32] <skunkworks> indoors?
[15:07:39] <archivist> or 5 if one counts the pc
[15:07:53] <MattyMatt> yeah wooden staircase, with momma daring me to chip the paint
[15:08:03] <archivist> all normal people have cnc indoors dont they?
[15:08:39] <skunkworks> that is freezing..
[15:09:04] <skunkworks> (almost)
[15:09:22] <MattyMatt> I'll keep this one manual for a bit. stiff dovetails = big motors
[15:09:31] <archivist> it is effin cold in here
[15:10:41] <MattyMatt> all the snow melted away in the sun here. we've got a microclimate. this town is famous for its palm trees
[15:10:50] <skunkworks> archivist scrapes frost off the monitor
[15:11:27] <MattyMatt> scilly isles, torquay, and then wallasey
[15:11:43] <MattyMatt> and there's a scottish island that can also grow them
[15:13:43] <MattyMatt> we get privileged access to gulf stream I think
[15:14:07] <archivist> send it down the country a bit
[15:15:26] <MattyMatt> -11F is effin cold
[15:15:41] <MattyMatt> -11C is bad enough IMO
[15:16:38] <MattyMatt> 2/3 of the world's population have never seen snow, according to a bbc report I read. I'm not sure I believe that
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[15:26:50] <archivist> skunkworks, one of the backlights in my old display used to fail in low temperatures, I would know it was cold by the dim and flickering display
[15:26:53] <MattyMatt> I'm not sure whether to scrap my plywood one when this one is working. it's got a slightly bigger work area and does the job for woodwork
[15:29:09] <MattyMatt> I'll pass it on to another beginner probably, complete with 4axis TB6560 and nema23
[15:30:41] <archivist> burn the wood to keep warm re use the electronics
[15:31:08] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna start replacing failed CCF backlights with rows of white LED
[15:33:51] <MattyMatt> I'm running out of thinkpad spares, and my bigger screens I can't fix the inverters at all
[15:44:46] <pcw_home> The inverter on my desktop monitor just died (Crappy capacitors leading to transistor failures)
[15:44:48] <pcw_home> they are a very common cause of LCD problems
[15:47:09] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: on my monitors at home the psu electrolytics fail very predictable after 6 months....
[15:48:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=5675
[15:48:50] <Loetmichel> i think thats whats called "planned obsolescence"
[15:49:01] <pcw_home> Mine did a lot better (6 years). I dont think people have complained like they have with motherboard capacitors
[15:49:27] <pcw_home> nice picture
[15:49:49] <Loetmichel> look at hte pic... to put the cas DIRECTLY beside the heatsink cant be accidental ;-)
[15:49:53] <Loetmichel> caps
[15:50:11] <pcw_home> Lovely timer
[15:50:41] <Loetmichel> hannsG... nuff said ;:)
[15:51:26] <pcw_home> that looks almost exactly like mine that just failed
[15:52:36] <Loetmichel> i thinkt thats an "outsourced" part
[15:52:38] <Loetmichel> the PSU
[15:52:45] <pcw_home> Although only some of the caps on mine were bulged
[15:52:58] <Loetmichel> thats why it written on "TDK" in a HannsG monitor ;-)
[15:53:35] <pcw_home> Yes with every singe part sourced form the cheapest supplier
[15:53:56] <Loetmichel> like apollo ;-)
[15:54:01] <Loetmichel> or the shuttle;-)
[15:54:38] <pcw_home> at least its not keeping anyone in the air
[15:56:34] <pcw_home> I just bought a new monitor but intend to fix the old one
[15:56:36] <pcw_home> (the new monitor is LED and has much better contrast so its probably a good thing for my old eyes)
[15:58:58] <pcw_home> LED _backlight_ I should say. I guess there are OLED monitors for those with money to burn
[16:01:12] <archivist> what is this money you speak of
[16:01:41] <pcw_home> something we had in the olden days
[16:02:07] <archivist> 12 years since I had a sensible wage :(
[16:03:09] <pcw_home> :-(
[16:03:59] <archivist> I dont see job openings for 60+ year olds without a degree theses days
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[16:05:45] <pcw_home> I'm in the same boat but since I'm in the good old USA I need to work at least for medical insurance
[16:06:22] <Loetmichel> hrm...
[16:06:49] <Loetmichel> i am only 43... but still: if my wife would get the pink slip we were in trouble.
[16:06:59] <Loetmichel> my wage is only about 2800 Eur
[16:07:03] <Loetmichel> monthly
[16:08:27] <pcw_home> But you actually have government services. we pay lower taxes but get ~0
[16:09:21] <archivist> why are the republicans fighting obama over health reforms!
[16:09:47] <cradek> while we have a shortage of available health care, we have a decent road system and my house is hooked to reliable gas, electricity, and sewer
[16:09:48] <Loetmichel> right, thats why my account only sees 1450Eur a month as income. rest_> government
[16:10:23] <cradek> pcw_home: (a friend just got back from a long stay in nepal. helps to have some perspective about services...)
[16:11:23] <pcw_home> Well yes we do sort of have medicare
[16:11:25] <cradek> of course we also have by far the best-funded warmaking machine in the world :-/
[16:11:31] <ReadError> wow and i thought my taxes where high ;/
[16:11:38] <Loetmichel> ... paying 1150 Eur rent a month diesent help either ;-)
[16:11:41] <Loetmichel> doesent
[16:12:14] <pcw_home> so we dont have 0 services we have occasional very silly wars
[16:12:42] <cradek> and the largest most successful prison system (although that's quickly being privatized so the rich can extract profit from it)
[16:13:29] <pcw_home> Yep (California has a huge prison lobby)
[16:13:49] <pcw_home> big (and growing) business
[16:14:18] <cradek> yeah, with kickbacks to judges who imprison all those poor and minority kids
[16:15:05] <cradek> GOP: Where was Obama's outreach in inaugural speech?
[16:15:07] <cradek> hahahaha
[16:15:07] <Loetmichel> cradek: define successful ;-)
[16:15:13] <cradek> the news headlines never fail to deliver
[16:15:31] <cradek> Loetmichel: successful at imprisoning the most people possible in order to maximize profit
[16:15:41] <Loetmichel> ok, that may be right
[16:16:00] <cradek> Loetmichel: and/or minimize the presence of minorities in the cities
[16:16:23] <Loetmichel> the thought of "resocializing the convicts seems to have never occured in any amerycan
[16:17:22] <cradek> many here prefer vengeance to reform/reintegration/mental health care
[16:17:24] <Loetmichel> + warden/ judge
[16:17:28] <pcw_home> too much 'morality' and retribution, not enough systems approach
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[16:18:00] <Loetmichel> cradek: hmmm, resocializing is more cost effective than put them away forever.
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[16:18:28] <Loetmichel> ... if you have death penaity thats even more cost effective, tough
[16:18:37] <Loetmichel> though
[16:18:41] <cradek> Loetmichel: you're telling the wrong guy
[16:18:50] <pcw_home> but monetizing the process is the point
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[16:19:37] <archivist> citizens also help with the death penalty in usa....let all the fools own guns
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[16:20:09] <pcw_home> probably enough preaching to the choir
[16:20:18] <cradek> archivist: http://www.theonion.com/video/nra-fights-legislation-that-would-ban-gun-sales-to,30927/
[16:21:05] <Loetmichel> cradec: predictable
[16:21:32] <pcw_home> pretty funny
[16:22:40] <archivist> didnt play for me
[16:23:45] <archivist> odd I expected an isp caused adsl reset 1/2 an hour ago....
[16:25:30] <pcw_home> maybe they updated your firmware to a broken version
[16:26:05] <archivist> I have been shouting at the isp yesterday and today, engineer coming thursday
[16:26:46] <archivist> very odd that modem retrains are exactly 8 hours apart
[16:27:15] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/IWew45C.jpg
[16:28:25] <TekniQue> nice
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[16:52:56] <tjb1> That's dedication
[16:55:28] <ReadError> not dedication, thats cold hard cash
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[17:35:04] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:37:02] <IchGuckLive> someone has ever seen a pendand for a parport
[17:37:15] <IchGuckLive> ready made
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[17:47:18] <jackc-> anyone have a link handy for the eagle ULP that generates nc code?
[17:47:26] <jackc-> lost my bookmarks
[17:48:57] <jackc-> jepler: that was you who wrote that correct?
[17:49:11] <skunkworks> jackc-, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam
[17:49:18] <skunkworks> gcode.ulp
[17:49:21] <jackc-> thanks a ton
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[18:03:11] <jackc-> hrm its a little upset
[18:03:52] <IchGuckLive> there is a better g-code generater
[18:03:57] <IchGuckLive> for eagle
[18:03:58] <jackc-> ya?
[18:04:41] <jackc-> ive only every used this one
[18:04:54] <jackc-> but im trying to use it on windows currently because there is no ix64 build of eagle for linux
[18:05:06] <IchGuckLive> pcb-gcode
[18:05:12] <IchGuckLive> did you ever used this
[18:05:17] <jackc-> nope
[18:05:22] <IchGuckLive> it has a linuxcnc interface
[18:05:29] <jackc-> whats that mean
[18:05:35] <jackc-> it doesnt export nc code?
[18:05:42] <IchGuckLive> it does
[18:06:20] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pcbgcode.org/
[18:06:33] <IchGuckLive> you can setup alot of things to get best routing
[18:06:37] <jackc-> hm
[18:06:41] <roh> IchGuckLive: ready made pendant? nope. but i can show you how to make a simple one
[18:06:47] <JesusAlos_> http://imagebin.org/243829
[18:07:01] <JesusAlos_> The route cut the letter
[18:07:04] <roh> https://trac.raumfahrtagentur.org/wiki/Maschinen/CncFräse/JogBox
[18:07:15] <IchGuckLive> roh: i did this http://kleinwindkrafttechnik.de/pendant_V1.jpg
[18:07:28] <JesusAlos_> altrough split sketch
[18:08:04] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos_: you can select the start and endpoint of eatch
[18:08:27] <roh> IchGuckLive: nice, but i dont really need a display ;)
[18:08:40] <IchGuckLive> and the list entries numbering is the workflow
[18:08:53] <IchGuckLive> roh: i eighter
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[18:09:23] <IchGuckLive> it woudt be good to go parport insted of usb but the joypad from logitech is quite good
[18:09:27] <JesusAlos_> but must create a profile operation for each sketch?
[18:09:31] <IchGuckLive> it looks non CNC
[18:09:57] <IchGuckLive> jesus no
[18:10:22] <IchGuckLive> you can split the letters then join them
[18:10:32] <IchGuckLive> with the new workflow
[18:10:53] <IchGuckLive> only put the sketches in the right order
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[18:11:36] <IchGuckLive> for Foam best to start at top corner etch letter
[18:17:05] <IchGuckLive> roh: the side you providet is blockt true to ip grappig
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[18:20:00] <roh> ?
[18:20:54] <IchGuckLive> th jogbox
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[18:21:04] <roh> works for me
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[18:23:25] <JesusAlos_> http://imagebin.org/243831
[18:23:34] <JesusAlos_> the problem is the H letter
[18:23:42] <JesusAlos_> dont cutt all
[18:23:48] <JesusAlos_> all profile
[18:25:27] <JesusAlos_> https://trac.raumfahrtagentur.org/wiki/Maschinen/CncFr%C3%A4se/JogBox
[18:25:43] <JesusAlos_> Paralel port can read analog inputs?
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[18:26:32] <mrsun> no
[18:27:10] <sliptonic> JesusAlos_: If the 'H' is its own sketch, check its ordering. It should say either clockwise or counterclockwise. If it says 'bad' or 'multiple' you've got something wrong with the geometry. Probably duplicate lines.
[18:30:59] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: Hello is it possible to see some more detail of your pendant?
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[18:31:25] <IchGuckLive> what the pcb
[18:31:57] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: pcb, schematic, firmware all, like to build one.
[18:32:14] <ktchk> or buy
[18:32:36] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_4S24dW8w
[18:33:13] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: they changed in arduino from 0022 to the new the interface so the new wont run
[18:33:27] <IchGuckLive> as the serial kill at 2min the connection
[18:34:22] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: ok,thanks it is the arduino build. Is the v1 ok?
[18:35:41] <roh> JesusAlos_: analog? the jogbox just has encoders... so its digital
[18:36:59] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: the 0022 works fibe here no other
[18:37:33] <IchGuckLive> ktchk: http://kleinwindkrafttechnik.de/all_boards.jpg
[18:38:54] <ktchk> sliptonic: I have a bridgeport clone built under linuxcnc, heekscnc and a video at http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=324437181000344
[18:39:46] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: is there an eagle file?
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[18:41:18] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:41:36] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: where?
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[18:43:00] <IchGuckLive> i mail you if you need it
[18:43:06] <IchGuckLive> see Querry
[18:43:27] <ktchk> IchGuckLive: Querry?
[18:43:45] <IchGuckLive> isent there my name in your chat frame standalone
[18:43:53] <IchGuckLive> klick on my name please
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[18:58:44] <JesusAlos_> I think the HeeksCNC is not very practica for 2 axis cutting letters.
[18:59:00] <JesusAlos_> eny suggestion?
[18:59:35] <mrsun> tttracer? :)
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[19:00:00] <IchGuckLive> awallin has also good scripts
[19:00:02] <mrsun> http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
[19:01:38] <JesusAlos_> for windows
[19:02:44] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos_: can you upload your heeks someware
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[19:03:49] <JesusAlos_> what do you mean?
[19:03:58] <JesusAlos_> upload what?
[19:04:57] <IchGuckLive> the heekscad file you used
[19:07:08] <JesusAlos_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ersr1m0lfkoywy1/heekscnc.dxf
[19:08:32] <JesusAlos_> you have it?
[19:08:43] <ktchk> sliptonic: hello
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[19:29:02] <IchGuckLive> For all who have the same problem then Jesus ther is a positiening operation in heekscnc
[19:29:10] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/pos_heeks.png
[19:29:32] <IchGuckLive> just set some points and move to them bevor a profile or whatever
[19:30:55] <IchGuckLive> not perfect but a idee how it works
[19:31:57] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[19:35:56] <sliptonic> JesusAlos_: http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2826/selection010dq.png Seems to work fine.
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[19:37:08] <JesusAlos_> The idea is no cut into the letters
[19:37:21] <JesusAlos_> only for necessary leter like A
[19:41:37] <sliptonic> JesusAlos_: I'm not sure I understand. Let's jump over to #heekscad and I'll try to help.
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[19:54:22] <AR__> would a 1HP VFD have enough power to run a .8kW spindle?
[19:54:41] <AR__> one of the chinese 220V 5A ones
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[20:01:57] <andypugh> AR__: I would have thought so.
[20:02:41] <AR__> What about one like this so i dont have to run a 220 line? http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?cID=28&PID=4705
[20:03:54] <andypugh> If it works as advertised, then it should be fine.
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[20:04:37] <andypugh> (mentally converting 220V into 440V to understand the problem)
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[20:08:50] <Jymmm> How difficult is it to repair/diagnose diesel cars?
[20:11:36] <AR__> andypugh, but 1HP is 750W, so will it be pushing the limits of the VFD?
[20:11:45] <AR__> or not since it will rarely be drawing full power
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[20:20:52] <kwallace1> Usually the problem comes about when using single phase input with a VFD designed for three phase input. To do so, one should use a VFD rated at 1.2kW or more, or use a VFD rated for single phase.
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[20:26:33] <AR__> kwallace1, this one is rated for 115V single phase input only
[20:26:44] <AR__> 1hp 220v 3-phase output
[20:27:49] <AR__> if you overload a VFD it just shuts off with an error right?
[20:31:54] <kwallace1> I think it depends on how sophisticated the software is, but usually a VFD will shut down on DC bus under and over voltage, output bridge over temperature and maybe over current. Usually you can program these to suit your motor, but I'm not an expert.
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[20:44:34] <mrsun> hmm
[20:45:00] <mrsun> making a hexagon ... checked the mill and got 0.0 backlash with backlash comp ... still insted of 15mm across i get 3 different measurments :/
[20:49:24] <mrsun> 0.5mm off on one side ...
[20:49:28] <mrsun> i dont get it :/
[20:49:48] <mrsun> might be overtightened tables or something so missing steps somewhere
[20:51:04] <mrsun> but when i have indicator on the table i cant find any error in movement
[20:53:15] <tjb1> Seen a guy on a motorcycle at school…its 12F here...
[20:55:05] <mrsun> i guess i could attack the calipers to check movement atleast curdley
[20:55:15] <mrsun> to see if it realy moves 15mm when i tell it to :P
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[21:02:47] <mrsun> this makes me sad :(
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[21:04:35] <Loetmichel> tjb1: so what?
[21:04:49] <tjb1> Thats cold!
[21:04:59] <mrsun> cold ?
[21:05:07] <mrsun> got -24C here now
[21:05:19] <Loetmichel> i've drifen to work over three years on a 50cc Scooter. 1 hr per commute... spring, summer, autum and winter ;-)
[21:05:28] <Loetmichel> driven
[21:06:25] <DJ9DJ> mrsun, where are you?
[21:06:29] <Loetmichel> at -10°c you have to take a break at half the way in a gas station, get a coffe and a hot sausage to thaw the fingers ;-)
[21:06:31] <mrsun> sweden
[21:06:35] <DJ9DJ> uuh okay :)
[21:06:44] <tjb1> mrsun: Thatts only 20f away...
[21:06:58] <mrsun> you can throw that scale to the pigs
[21:07:03] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[21:07:05] <mrsun> "only 20f" away isnt even linear
[21:07:06] <tjb1> Loetmichel: 12F is colder than -10C :P
[21:07:14] <Loetmichel> a little bit
[21:07:35] <tjb1> 12 f = -11C
[21:07:38] <tjb1> Better mrsun ?
[21:07:45] <r00t4rd3d> lol hot sausage
[21:07:46] <Loetmichel> but the point is: ive done that 2 hrs a day over three years. its not nice bot doable
[21:07:54] <roh> its -6C in berlin right now and that sucks. wind from the east... siberia is calling
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[21:08:16] <Loetmichel> mrsun: it IS linear
[21:08:24] <r00t4rd3d> 9F
[21:09:01] <mrsun> and -22 C = -11.2F 11 degree C diff, 13.2 degree F diff
[21:09:02] <Loetmichel> roh: "weichei!"
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[21:09:23] <tjb1> Yes, thats nearly 20F
[21:09:26] <roh> i'm traveling by bike
[21:09:36] <mrsun> i do not see the linearity in farenheight scale
[21:10:30] <DJ9DJ> fahrenheit :D
[21:11:17] <mrsun> ok ok might be linear .. dont know but its a stupid scale
[21:11:19] <mrsun> =)
[21:11:38] <mrsun> ive yet to be proven its worth to this world
[21:11:42] <mrsun> just like the imperial system
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[21:13:25] <andypugh> AR__: If you run an 800W motor from a 750W VFD you end up with a 750W motor.
[21:15:11] <andypugh> I was on the motorbike today, and yesterday. There isn't _that_ much snow on the roads.
[21:16:43] <r00t4rd3d> i wanna stud my tires and go ice riding
[21:17:37] <skunkworks> that's what she said! wait - what?
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[21:19:14] <andypugh> I have a quote for ice studs for the GasGas, I just haven't placed the order yet.
[21:20:27] <r00t4rd3d> https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=nk79yjjHJ4k
[21:20:31] <r00t4rd3d> lol looks wicked fun
[21:22:36] <Loetmichel> mrsun: IIRC the farenheit scale is just steeperand a bit shifted, 100°F = ~38°C, 0°F = ~-18°C
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[21:23:01] <Loetmichel> so its perfectly linear, just not at the same "angle" than Celsius
[21:23:12] <mrsun> ye but where did they get that 0F os -18C from ? from their asses? :P
[21:23:49] <Loetmichel> IIRC farenheit uses his body temperature as 100° and the freezing point of aclohol as 0°
[21:24:04] <Loetmichel> used
[21:24:14] <mrsun> so he was a hot person with an alcohol problem then ?
[21:24:23] <mrsun> and in that you trust a temperature scale? :P
[21:25:17] <Loetmichel> oh, wron, he used the coldest temperature in winter in his hometown danzig...
[21:25:27] <Loetmichel> just asked wikipedia
[21:25:28] <DJ9DJ> body temp is 96F
[21:25:52] <mrsun> if i have 38 degrees i run a fever or however thats spelled :P
[21:26:15] <Loetmichel> a slight fever, yes
[21:26:56] <Loetmichel> farenheit defined "the bodytemperature of a healthy human" as 96°F
[21:27:15] <mrsun> well mr farenheit should have been shot at birth :P
[21:28:56] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[21:29:02] <mrsun> but then again, ye its hard to define a temperature ... but using body heat as a reference is kinda stupid
[21:29:22] <mrsun> atleast water always freezes at the same temperature at the same altitude with the same preasure :P
[21:29:32] <Loetmichel> farenheit defined it in 1714
[21:29:48] <andypugh> Look up the "Newton" scale
[21:29:50] <Loetmichel> what other fixed temperature did he have to lean on?
[21:31:07] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit
[21:31:08] <mrsun> water freezing insted of alcohol ?
[21:31:09] <mrsun> :P
[21:31:23] <Jymmm> brine
[21:31:54] <tjb1> water only freezes at the same temperature if its pure water
[21:32:43] <Loetmichel> distilled water was readily aviable in 1714
[21:32:43] <mrsun> doesnt the same hold true for brine, alcohol etc? :P
[21:32:50] <Jymmm> nope
[21:33:12] <Jymmm> add a pinch of salt to water, it boils faster.
[21:33:29] <Jymmm> alcohol never freezes
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[21:33:43] <DJ9DJ> it boils slower
[21:33:46] <mrsun> add a pinch of water to brine and it will freeze at a different temperature
[21:33:47] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delisle_scale
[21:33:51] <DJ9DJ> if you add salt to water
[21:34:24] <andypugh> 0 = boiling, 150 = freezing
[21:35:17] <andypugh> "The Celsius scale, like the Delisle scale, originally ran from zero for boiling water down to 100 for freezing water. This was reversed to its modern order after his death"
[21:36:32] <mrsun> well i guess celcius should have been shot at birth also then
[21:36:44] <mrsun> but atleast some sensible person came and rectified his mistake
[21:37:03] <mrsun> unlike farenheit .. where americans felt like .. "yeah lets use the most stupid scale in the world!"
[21:37:35] <tjb1> 32 is freezing, 212 is boiling, 68-70 is a good temperature and 98.6 is body temp…how hard is that?
[21:38:07] <Jymmm> 32 freezing and 212 boiling is 180 degrees apart.
[21:38:12] <mrsun> 0 is freezing, 100 is boiling 38 is good body temp
[21:38:17] <mrsun> see
[21:38:20] <mrsun> very nice
[21:38:32] <tjb1> Its nice because you know it
[21:39:33] <mrsun> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7YhXQIcQGTY/UK-qYbPT4GI/AAAAAAAAA70/N34gYSwTBo8/s1600/USA+scales+vs.+the+world.jpg
[21:39:35] <mrsun> nuff said
[21:39:36] <mrsun> =)
[21:39:50] <andypugh> I want a scale where 0 is the freezing point of coolant and 100 is the melting point of solder.
[21:40:19] <tjb1> Who said day month year is right?
[21:40:21] <Jymmm> andypugh: Why not just make it 10 instead?
[21:40:22] <DJ9DJ> yeah, the andypugh-scale :D
[21:40:50] <mrsun> tjb1, cause its the logical order of things
[21:41:07] <andypugh> year-month-day is more sensible. It can then be lexically sorted.
[21:41:14] <roycroft> i'm in the us and i haven't used the stupid fahrenheit scale in, well, i can't remember how long
[21:41:19] <mrsun> andypugh, sure .. that also
[21:41:29] <mrsun> but year, day, month would be like getting raped by a pig
[21:41:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:41:43] <andypugh> What's the base unit of mass in the SI ?
[21:41:53] <roycroft> the kilogram, i believe
[21:42:01] <DJ9DJ> yeah, the ur-kilogram in paris
[21:42:05] <andypugh> Indeed. What's that "kilo" doing in there?
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[21:42:34] <mrsun> tells that its 1000 grams
[21:42:41] <tjb1> mrsun: I dont care how the date is but it should be univeral
[21:42:44] <andypugh> So the gram is the base unit?
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[21:43:08] <tjb1> You cant tell if 3-4-2013 is april or march
[21:43:24] <Jymmm> 2013-01-22.1343
[21:43:25] <mrsun> day, month, year
[21:43:26] <roycroft> tjb1: i consider dates written that way as ambiguous, and therefore, invalid :)
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[21:43:28] <mrsun> very logical
[21:43:33] <tjb1> I knew you would say that.
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[21:43:34] <roycroft> yyyy-mm-dd is valid
[21:43:49] <roycroft> anyone who would ever use yyyy-dd-mm is a moron
[21:44:02] <tjb1> why is it more logical to have day, month, year?
[21:44:21] <roycroft> dd-mm-yy and mm-dd-yy are not the results of morons, but of archaic local customs
[21:44:23] <tjb1> Logical is (1-12),(1-31), year.
[21:44:24] <andypugh> tjb1: They are in order of precision.
[21:44:24] <mrsun> cause x days make a month, x months make a year
[21:44:32] <mrsun> not x months makes a day, x days makes a year
[21:44:36] <mrsun> see the problem here? :P
[21:44:37] <roycroft> dd-mm-yy is in descending granularity
[21:44:41] <Jymmm> 1752-09-07
[21:44:48] <roycroft> mm-dd-yy is in zig-zag granularity
[21:44:55] <tjb1> No I see you have a different view of logical and try to force it as correct
[21:45:00] <andypugh> How about decimal time and dates?
[21:45:08] <Jymmm> roycroft: it's ambigous with US/EU
[21:45:22] <roycroft> 1752-09-07 can only be parsed one way in the gregorian calendar
[21:45:34] <Jymmm> roycroft: Nope, it's invalid
[21:45:35] <roycroft> and that would be a moronic parsing :)
[21:45:51] <roycroft> it could be parsed as 9 july 1752
[21:46:15] <Jymmm> roycroft: 1752-09-07 does not exist =)
[21:46:24] <roycroft> if parsed correctly, yes
[21:46:30] <Jymmm> No, it does n't
[21:46:37] <roycroft> i mean yes, it does not exist
[21:46:40] <roycroft> i.e. yes, i agree with you
[21:46:41] <roycroft> sorry
[21:46:46] <Jymmm> lol
[21:47:07] * roycroft is being as mornic as the mm-dd-yy people at the moment
[21:47:49] <tjb1> Yes, we're morons.
[21:47:53] <Jymmm> September 1752
[21:47:53] <Jymmm> Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
[21:47:53] <Jymmm> 1 2 14 15 16
[21:47:54] <Jymmm> 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
[21:47:55] <roycroft> i've never seen a logical rationale for using mm-dd-yy
[21:47:56] <Jymmm> 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
[21:47:58] <roycroft> it's just local custom
[21:48:04] <roycroft> but not a logical custom
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[21:48:26] <roycroft> i'm well aware of the gregorian synchronization, jymmm
[21:48:27] <Jymmm> The logic is: Jan 09
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[21:48:35] <roycroft> no, that's not logic
[21:48:42] <roycroft> it's just an example
[21:48:51] <Jymmm> It is in accounting entries about 50 years ago
[21:48:59] <roycroft> that does not make it logical
[21:49:07] <roycroft> it just further exemplifies that it's customary
[21:49:21] <andypugh> Jan 09 was 4 years ago, not 50.
[21:49:22] <roycroft> i'll give you a possible explanation for why it's the case
[21:49:37] <roycroft> printed calendars generally are laid out in a monthy grid
[21:49:42] <roycroft> with the year not being printed on each month's grid
[21:49:56] <Jymmm> Ok, I dont care now, next topic
[21:50:01] <roycroft> so the custom could have developed by reading the month printed on the grid and then the date
[21:50:12] <roycroft> with the year being appended as necessary
[21:50:24] <roycroft> that is an explanation, but it's still not logical
[21:50:32] <andypugh> "December the thursdayth"
[21:50:34] <Jymmm> ok spock
[21:50:55] <roycroft> one could ask when the week begins too
[21:51:04] <roycroft> which, again, is a matter of local custom
[21:51:13] <roycroft> in the us it's customarily sunday
[21:51:19] <roycroft> in eu customarily monday
[21:51:39] <roycroft> interesting that, as we're such a bible-thumping nation, we get it wrong
[21:51:46] <roycroft> well, most do
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[21:52:01] <roycroft> seventh day adventists get it right according to us custom
[21:52:06] <roycroft> since saturday is their sabboth
[21:52:21] * Jymmm smacks roycroft why a used outdated mayan calendar!
[21:52:28] <Jymmm> s/why/with/
[21:52:34] <mrsun> hehe
[21:52:45] <mrsun> hot to start a small war - Staring mrsun
[21:53:05] <roycroft> you'll fizzle out in a few thosand million more years, mrsun
[21:53:08] <roycroft> thousand
[21:53:15] <roycroft> so strut your stuff while you can
[21:54:38] <mrsun> well i might be a red dwarf
[21:54:44] <mrsun> with a mass of 0.1 of the suns mass
[21:54:45] <Jymmm> Why do diesel engines hard start on cold days? Or might need starter fluid?
[21:54:47] <roycroft> yes, a puny little red dwarf
[21:54:54] <mrsun> so about 10 trillion years
[21:54:58] <mrsun> lifespan
[21:55:10] <roycroft> they are compression-start engines not ignition-start engines
[21:55:21] <roycroft> they have to build up sufficient heat in the cylinders to combust
[21:55:23] <Jymmm> roycroft: and?
[21:55:32] <roycroft> and that takes a lot of cranking cycles on a cold day
[21:55:44] <Jymmm> define "cold day" ?
[21:56:08] <roycroft> well my car takes longer to start when it gets below about 5 degrees
[21:56:20] <Jymmm> F ?
[21:56:22] <roycroft> no
[21:56:25] <Jymmm> K
[21:56:26] <Jymmm> ?
[21:56:29] <roycroft> i don't use that antiquated system
[21:56:31] <roycroft> c
[21:56:36] <roycroft> the almost universal standard
[21:56:42] <roycroft> 5k would be pretty damn cold
[21:57:02] <roycroft> if my car did not have glow plugs, it would start hard at about 15 degrees
[21:57:07] <mrsun> -0.25 R
[21:57:10] <mrsun> would be a cold day
[21:57:19] <mrsun> Ro ..
[21:57:23] <mrsun> Romer ...
[21:57:30] <roycroft> i should imagine most diesel engines would fall within that range
[21:57:50] <roycroft> if your car/truck is very difficult to start at 10 degrees or lower, the glow plugs might need to be replaced
[21:58:02] <Jymmm> roycroft: So, 40F and below would take how long to start? Would it kill the battery?
[21:58:08] <roycroft> and if it's -10 or colder, i should imagine a block heater would be necessary
[21:58:11] <mozmck> Jymmm, the heat for combustion in a diesel comes from the high compression, and if it is too cold to start with the heat will be less.
[21:58:27] <roycroft> i've never had to crank so much it drains the battery
[21:59:05] <Jymmm> I'm looking at this this afternoon 1982 Vw diesel mk1 sunroof jetta - $1800
[21:59:08] <roycroft> keep in mind that diesel engines generally have bigger batteries than gasoline engines of identical displacement
[21:59:13] <Jymmm> 212K Miles
[21:59:14] <mozmck> I have a block heater I plug in if it's going to be below about 30F - helps the truck crank faster.
[21:59:21] <roycroft> i'd be concerned, jymmm
[21:59:28] <Jymmm> roycroft: why?
[21:59:58] <roycroft> because on a diesel vw of that vintage, 200k miles is right about where everything starts wearing out
[22:00:03] <mozmck> My old mercedes will almost not crank if the glow plugs are bad.
[22:00:07] * mrsun throws a trout at Jymmm
[22:00:13] <roycroft> even if you have a newly-rebuilt engine, the tranny, suspension, electrical, etc will start failing at around 200k miles
[22:00:14] <Jymmm> roycroft: ah
[22:00:32] <roycroft> i got rid of my rabbit when it hit 210k miles because it seemed that every week something new and expensive would break
[22:00:35] <roycroft> at first i cursed vw
[22:00:48] <roycroft> then i realised that it was probably engineered so that everything fails at once
[22:00:54] <roycroft> which is smart engineering
[22:01:00] <roycroft> vw is telling you to go get a new car
[22:01:10] <roycroft> and not pour good money after bad in your old one
[22:01:16] <Jymmm> It funny casue I emailed him making sure that he DOENST start the engine so I can see it cold and his replay was " You must know your diesel engines. Days like today it shouldnt be too hard to start. Any colder you might have to hit it with some starting fluid. I been thinking of installing a block heater but i already have too many damn cars. "
[22:01:31] <roycroft> yeah, bad glow plugs make for a very difficult to start car unless it's 20 degrees or warmer
[22:01:43] <Jymmm> how much are they to replace?
[22:01:52] <Jymmm> and how hard?
[22:01:56] <roycroft> on my rabbit glow plugs were about $100 for the set
[22:01:57] <tjb1> have we stopped talking about metric and logical?
[22:02:00] <mozmck> Jymmm: if you want an older diesel look for a mercedes. they are much better.
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[22:02:19] <roycroft> and replacing them is almost like replacing spark plugs, but iirc you have to take the fuel rails off to get to them
[22:02:35] <Jymmm> how often are they replaced?
[22:02:37] <roycroft> so slightly more work than replacing spark plugs
[22:02:43] <roycroft> every 100k miles or so
[22:02:49] <Jymmm> oh, then no biggy
[22:02:50] <roycroft> they should not fail often
[22:02:56] <mozmck> when they quit working
[22:03:10] <roycroft> when they quit working your engine will not start unless it's summer
[22:03:13] <Jymmm> anythign else to lok out for?
[22:03:15] <roycroft> and i'm not talking uk summer
[22:03:15] <Jymmm> look
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[22:03:56] <roycroft> suspension, electrical - i had all sorts of problems starting at about 200k miles going to 210k, when i got rid of it
[22:04:01] <roycroft> the clutch went out
[22:04:08] <roycroft> the tranny started making noises towards the end
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[22:04:33] <roycroft> i'm a big fan of vw diesels
[22:04:53] <roycroft> but i'd really recommend not buying an early '80s vintage vw with 200k miles on it, unless you can get it for $500
[22:05:03] <roycroft> it will turn into a money pit
[22:05:16] <roycroft> the headliner even started sagging shortly before i got rid of mine
[22:05:24] <roycroft> i guess they used 200k mile glue
[22:05:37] <Jymmm> lol
[22:05:37] <roycroft> well, 20 year glue, more like
[22:05:47] <mozmck> roycroft: do you like the newer TDI engines? I've heard they are great, but the electrical systems are terrible.
[22:05:55] <roycroft> i'm quite happy with my new beetle
[22:06:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, I've never had a diesel before. Would like to get a small pickup.
[22:06:09] <roycroft> i've had no major problems, but the previous owner replaced several switches
[22:06:21] <roycroft> vw 1.6L diesel:
[22:06:25] <Jymmm> electrical, I can do all day long.
[22:06:28] <roycroft> good - fantastic fuel economy
[22:06:36] <roycroft> bad - 0-60 in five minutes
[22:06:45] <Jymmm> I just dont want to deal with smog shit anymore.
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[22:06:56] <Jymmm> and MPG good too
[22:06:58] <roycroft> lots of proprietary parts and tools
[22:07:04] <mozmck> I'm trying to sell my 83 mercedes because it needs a bit of work and I don't have time any more, but it has a lot more than 210k miles on it. Engine still runs fine.
[22:07:06] <roycroft> fuel economy = mpg
[22:07:18] <roycroft> or km/L
[22:07:22] <roycroft> however you look at it
[22:07:28] <roycroft> which is why i used the generic term
[22:07:29] <Jymmm> proprietary tools?
[22:07:31] <roycroft> yes
[22:07:36] <Jymmm> such as?
[22:07:53] <roycroft> special wrenches, pullers, etc.
[22:07:53] <Jymmm> Like an O2 sensor socket?
[22:08:01] <roycroft> no, i'm talking about proprietary vw tools
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[22:08:06] <roycroft> an o2 sensor socket is generic
[22:08:06] <Jymmm> ohhhhhhhhh
[22:08:19] <roycroft> i'm talking about a spanner made to take one part off
[22:08:25] <roycroft> and you can't use any standard tool for that
[22:08:31] <Jymmm> oh fuck me
[22:08:45] <roycroft> back in the air-cooled vw days, vw used to publish specs for making most of the special tools
[22:09:05] <roycroft> now they just give you part numbers and tell you to ring up your vw service center, pull out your wallet, and bend over
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[22:09:27] <roycroft> if you're clever you can make most of your own, though
[22:09:59] <roycroft> there's a very expensive tool used to hold the engine in place on my car while the transmission is being dropped
[22:10:02] <Jymmm> And me here sei-whining about $20 line disconnect tool to replace the fuel filter
[22:10:07] <Jymmm> semi-
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[22:10:22] <roycroft> a big metal bar with two holes drilled in it, and padding on the ends, works just as well
[22:10:54] <roycroft> but many of the tools are difficult to jerry-rig that easily
[22:11:27] <Jymmm> The gold one http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-fuel-and-auto-trans-line-disconnect-tool-set-96834.html
[22:11:34] <Jymmm> works good btw
[22:12:18] <Jymmm> I just dont like plastic tools
[22:13:00] <roycroft> i don't buy many tools from hf
[22:13:16] <roycroft> i consider almost anything i buy there a kit that needs to be rebuilt and augmented before it is functional
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[22:13:30] <roycroft> and i just bought a small greenhouse from there at lunch today
[22:13:55] <roycroft> it's not quite greenhouse season, but i wanted to get it now so i can erect it in my garage and see what i'll need to do to make it functional
[22:14:05] <roycroft> but some of their automotive tools are somewhat useful
[22:15:16] <Jymmm> Well those were $15 cheaper at HF than at the auto parts store and EXACT SAME thing
[22:15:31] <roycroft> yeah, i don't automatically reject anything they have
[22:15:41] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-bottle-refill-kit-45989.html
[22:15:48] <Jymmm> That is the real thing
[22:15:59] <Jymmm> and $7 cheaper than elsewhere
[22:16:06] <Jymmm> when on sale
[22:16:39] <Jymmm> But yeah HF is scarry otherwise, just gotta find the gems in a pile of poo
[22:17:01] <Jymmm> $6 rubber wheel chocks
[22:17:09] <Jymmm> with coupon =)
[22:19:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/7lOqiri.jpg
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[22:48:21] <Jymmm> Well, when AT&T fucks up, at least they do it big time!
[22:49:17] <Tom_itx> so does cox
[22:49:44] <Jymmm> This is the most major outage they've had in 4 years, so I guess I can't complain too much.
[22:49:58] <Tom_itx> over half the nation was out due to cox about a month ago
[22:50:19] <Jymmm> They've had 2h mainenance outages on some sondays
[22:50:27] <Tom_itx> then soon after that their email server borked
[22:50:37] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: They has no cox?
[22:51:33] <Tom_itx> their fix was to create a gmail account
[22:51:49] <Tom_itx> then come back after they figured it out
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[23:17:05] <r00t4rd3d> -30F for tomorrow :/
[23:17:18] <r00t4rd3d> I better bring my computer in.....
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[23:34:21] <andypugh> I found out just now why cradek didn't like the idea of touchscreen-jogging.
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[23:35:08] <andypugh> My touchscreen button stuck down. It seems that I have been under-estimating the DOC that my proper mill is capable of.
[23:35:14] <jdh> I tried it on a touch screen I have. It auto-drops the click
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[23:35:50] <jdh> (windows app, elo USB touchscreen)
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[23:38:28] <Connor> jdh: Got my replacement speed controller in today. Hooked up.. and it works.
[23:38:41] <jdh> nice. Where did you find another one?
[23:38:45] <Connor> Next step is to install it along with the C43 speed controller and get it all hooked up.
[23:38:51] <Connor> Ebay.
[23:39:00] <jdh> in the original box, or you doing somethign differnt?
[23:39:03] <Connor> $112.00 for the same unit.. little newer.. this one is surface mount.
[23:39:19] <jdh> I'll give you $12 for your dead one :)
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[23:39:43] <Connor> I'm thinking of putting the speed controller, C43, e-stop and some other stuff in a separate enclosure.
[23:40:01] <Connor> I'm going to try to get it repaired.. if I can get it repaired cheap enough, I'll sell it.
[23:40:14] <Connor> or use on the 4th axis.
[23:41:08] <Connor> I put a AMT102 encoder on the 2nd shaft of the Treadmill motor too..
[23:41:25] <Connor> So, I'll get that wired up A,B, Z and have full encoder support. :)
[23:41:41] <jdh> via p-port?
[23:41:43] <jdh> how many lines?
[23:41:47] <Connor> for now.
[23:41:49] <Connor> 3 lines.
[23:42:01] <Connor> I have 3-Par-port's
[23:42:07] <Connor> so, I'm good.
[23:42:09] <jdh> I mean lines on the encoder
[23:42:14] <jdh> or PPR
[23:42:28] <Connor> Yea, 3 lines A, B, and Z.
[23:42:29] <Connor> OH>
[23:42:40] <Connor> 48 up to 2048
[23:43:24] <Connor> http://www.cui.com/Product/Components/Encoders/Incremental_Encoders/Modular/AMT_100_Series
[23:45:57] <tjtr33> isnt this wrong for and and2 gate? http://imagebin.org/243869
[23:51:24] <tjtr33> LinuxCNC/AXIS version 2.5.1
[23:52:01] <jdh> it looks like it is prescient
[23:53:20] <tjtr33> ? predictive? sorry dont understand that idea, its an and2 gate
[23:53:48] <jdh> it looks like it it is responding to the future.
[23:53:49] <skunkworks> Connor: has pete bought any servos and or drives?
[23:54:25] <Connor> skunkworks: I haven't heard yet.. He just sold some of his gear and was looking into it.. Not sure if he's pulled the trigger yet or not.
[23:54:29] <jdh> or, it's just wrong
[23:55:03] <Connor> he had some other issues too.. Broken dishwaser.. His van started having issues, and garage door opener stripped a gear.. I swear he can't catch a break.
[23:55:04] <andypugh> tjtr33: You seem to be on the limits of resolution of halscope. Also, the precise results will tend to depend on execution order. Is Halscope sampling before or after the and2 runs? Who can say?
[23:57:25] <Connor> skunkworks: any recommendations on which servo / drivers he should get?
[23:57:32] <tjtr33> andy will try to slow the thread down, but what are the guidelines? what tipped you off I was near limits of halscope?
[23:59:35] <skunkworks> Connor: not really - If it where me - I would have used the servos on the machine and found drives...
[23:59:38] <andypugh> The slope on the transition lines from true to false.