#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-12-31

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[00:04:04] <adb> 'mpg' has a order of precision ? 1/100 mm
[00:04:41] <adb> or its a non sense ..
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[00:16:38] <ReadError> i think theres a certain amount of pulses per revolution
[00:16:52] <ReadError> and you can set a factor on the pendant to control the speed
[00:16:58] <ReadError> or distance each pulse does
[00:20:13] <adb> thx
[00:26:07] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_machines/170556-so_you_want_try_cnc_i_did.html
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[00:29:24] <tjb1> Wish I could tell google I dont care about malware
[00:33:47] <asdfasd> :
[00:33:50] <asdfasd> :)
[00:33:51] <asdfasd> The last time Google visited this site was on 2012-12-30, and the last time suspicious content was found on this site was on 2012-12-30.
[00:33:51] <asdfasd> Malicious software includes 125 trojan(s), 4 exploit(s). Successful infection resulted in an average of 2 new process(es) on the target machine.
[00:35:48] <skunkworks> We have found the problem that caused our site to be blacklisted, we have cleaned all infected files. Since 2003 I have never had a problem like this. I'm taking many costly steps to eliminate this from happening again. Site should be back to normal by monday.
[00:35:50] <skunkworks> Thanks for your patience.
[00:38:15] <adb> Thanks for your works
[00:39:00] <tjb1> Its been off and on doing it for the past couple months
[00:39:43] <asdfasd> same happened to my forum 2 years ago, I hosted the forum on my own server at home, later I moved the forum on paid server, and year later happened again - some files on the server was replaced, after you open the main page of the forum a lots of viruses begin to download to your pc
[00:43:27] <tjb1> I believe he said it was in the ad code so I wonder if that means people using adblock aren't affected
[00:44:51] <asdfasd> I think if someone can gain access to modify files on remote server it will be capable to trick adblock too
[00:45:22] <asdfasd> so better dont take that risk :)
[00:45:59] <tjb1> i dont run anti virus
[00:48:43] <tjb1> never have, never will :)
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[00:57:10] <asdfasd> which OS ?
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[01:05:02] <ReadError> so
[01:05:09] <ReadError> im officially horrible at using a lathe
[01:05:20] <ReadError> the metal looks worse after than it did when i put it in
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[01:08:00] <Tom_itx> what does it look like?
[01:08:13] <Tom_itx> is the tool on center?
[01:08:21] <Tom_itx> is the spindle speed too fast?
[01:08:25] <ReadError> yea im fairly sure i need to take my square to it
[01:08:35] <ReadError> part of the problem might be i have no clue what im doing
[01:08:45] <ReadError> and maybe the aluminum is too soft?
[01:08:58] <Tom_itx> O material is crap to machine
[01:09:23] <ReadError> well im just really bad then ;)
[01:09:28] <Tom_itx> if it's T material it should machine ok however some alloys machine better than others
[01:09:59] <Tom_itx> take a pic and show the material and tool
[01:10:38] <Tom_itx> while you do i'm gonna shower
[01:11:14] <ReadError> pic coming
[01:11:29] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Dec%2030%2C%208%2010%2007%20PM.jpg
[01:12:37] <Tom_itx> the material was too far from the spindle to begin with or you should have supported the end with a live center
[01:12:45] <Tom_itx> too much chatter
[01:12:53] <ReadError> ahh
[01:13:00] <ReadError> i can try that
[01:13:10] <Tom_itx> also make sure the tool is on center and sharp
[01:13:53] <Tom_itx> if you face the end off and it leaves no tit it should be pretty close to center
[01:14:08] <tjb1> asdfasd: mountain lion
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[01:31:38] <tjb1> Im tired of moving snow
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[01:40:06] <Tom_itx> ReadError, got an updated pic?
[01:40:26] <ReadError> well, i dont have anything to make the center hole ;/
[01:40:30] <ReadError> i need to buy one
[01:40:42] <Tom_itx> what rpm was it turning?
[01:41:03] <Tom_itx> and what diameter is the bar?
[01:41:10] <ReadError> i have no idea about the rpm
[01:41:19] <ReadError> i need to add a little hall effect sensor
[01:41:21] <Tom_itx> fast medium slow
[01:41:25] <ReadError> or do the math for my pulleys
[01:41:27] <ReadError> medium
[01:41:31] <ReadError> it was in the middle
[01:41:53] <Tom_itx> can you put it closer to the chuck?
[01:42:32] <ReadError> the metal ?
[01:42:34] <ReadError> or the pulley
[01:42:35] <Tom_itx> yes
[01:42:39] <Tom_itx> the bar
[01:42:45] <ReadError> yea i just cut that piece off to test with
[01:42:59] <Tom_itx> how far was it sticking out?
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[01:43:10] <ReadError> its about 3" long
[01:43:14] <ReadError> so maybe 2.5"
[01:43:15] <ReadError> or 2
[01:43:30] <Tom_itx> bar size? 1/2" ?
[01:43:36] <Tom_itx> 1/4" ?
[01:43:48] <ReadError> a little over 1/4"
[01:43:52] <Tom_itx> i figured
[01:44:00] <ReadError> .215
[01:44:03] <ReadError> err, .315
[01:44:06] <Tom_itx> 5/16
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[01:44:17] <Tom_itx> .3125
[01:45:15] <Tom_itx> are they insert cutters or just square tool steel you sharpened?
[01:45:16] <ReadError> yea around that
[01:45:28] <ReadError> well i got 6 bits with my lathe
[01:45:38] <ReadError> let me get a pic
[01:47:14] <Tom_itx> a trick i learned to eyeball if the tool is on center is to pinch a straight bar between the tool and the workpiece with it off. if the bar is perpendicular to the lathe bed when you pinch it between the work and the tool it is straight
[01:47:47] <Tom_itx> s/straight/on center
[01:48:00] <ReadError> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25091878/Photo%20Dec%2030%2C%208%2046%2008%20PM.jpg
[01:48:36] <Tom_itx> the tool is sticking out too far too
[01:48:37] <ReadError> i was cutting that from right to left
[01:48:53] <Tom_itx> and is the tool sharpened to a point?
[01:48:58] <Tom_itx> it looks like a tool blank
[01:48:59] <ReadError> well its how it came
[01:49:29] <Tom_itx> i can see somewhat of a relief on it i think
[01:49:36] <Tom_itx> but it's sticking out too far
[01:49:48] <tjb1> Took me a while just to see the tool
[01:49:55] <ReadError> thats a piece of steal on there now
[01:50:03] <ReadError> but i think it was bent when i got it
[01:50:10] <Tom_itx> shorten the tool and bring the work closer to the chuck and try it again
[01:50:54] <ReadError> 1 sec
[01:51:00] <ReadError> should it being going fast or slow?
[01:51:06] <ReadError> (for steel)
[01:51:10] <Tom_itx> slow
[01:51:17] <ReadError> ok 1 min
[01:51:25] <Tom_itx> do you have a radiused tool?
[01:51:37] <Tom_itx> one without a sharp point
[01:52:04] <Tom_itx> that's really not the right tool there imo
[01:52:30] <tjb1> I have trouble getting a good finish with a very light pass also
[01:52:41] <tjb1> Looks like you barely took anything off
[01:53:06] <Tom_itx> show me the other tools you have
[02:00:52] <tjb1> Got slic3r and repetier so far
[02:01:14] <ReadError> Tom_itx, its a real gaggle
[02:01:21] <ReadError> i was thinking about ordering a 20 pack
[02:01:31] <kwallace> HSS (High Speed Steel) tool blanks do not usually come sharpened. Before insert tooling became all the rage, shaping and sharpening tool blanks was part of the art of machining. I just found this: http://www.sherline.com/grinding.htm . I usually need to use cutting oil with steel to get a decent finish too.
[02:02:24] <Tom_itx> he's got a bit of relief cut on the tool but i wouldn't use that tool for that cut
[02:02:31] <tjb1> Make sure you do not tighten inserts in too tight, idiots at school put them in so tight you have to break the insert to get it out
[02:03:01] <ReadError> Tom_itx, what do you recommend ?
[02:03:29] <Tom_itx> i'd use a V cut tool flat on top with reliev on each side with a bit of a radius on the tip
[02:03:37] <kwallace> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm
[02:03:59] <ReadError> i have one thats V shapped but its rounded
[02:04:16] <ReadError> i should really read a book
[02:04:20] <ReadError> to understand all this better
[02:04:29] <ReadError> i have the machinery handbook
[02:04:35] <ReadError> but its such a boring read
[02:04:47] <ReadError> dont think i would get much out of it
[02:04:52] <Tom_itx> kwallace, whoever wrote that tutorial burned the crap outta the tool
[02:05:12] <tjb1> ReadError: You would get a lot out of it if you can find the correct section
[02:05:20] <tjb1> You have the 28th?
[02:05:42] <ReadError> yea its a newer one
[02:05:47] <ReadError> i need to get this for the ipad
[02:06:01] <tjb1> If it is the 28th, I can find the page for you
[02:06:28] <ReadError> well i need the home machinist book
[02:06:33] <ReadError> its on amazon for 13$
[02:06:39] <ReadError> looks like it has some good stuff in it
[02:06:47] <ReadError> (but they dont sell the digital copy, bums)
[02:09:09] <tjb1> 746-760 will help you with tools
[02:10:23] <tjb1> 1005 has speeds and stuff
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[02:11:36] <tjb1> This is a good book if you can find it - http://www.amazon.com/Machinists-Ready-Reference-Weingartner-Compiler/dp/B004RIV86Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356919867&sr=8-2&keywords=machinists+ready+reference
[02:12:04] <tjb1> ISBN: 0-9703398-0-1
[02:12:25] <Tom_itx> i've got it
[02:12:32] <Tom_itx> different cover but same book
[02:12:38] <tjb1> http://www.amazon.com/Machinists-Ready-Reference-C-Weingartner/dp/0970339801/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1
[02:12:44] <Tom_itx> mine's 8th edition
[02:12:57] <tjb1> Mines 9th but its red
[02:12:57] <Tom_itx> also the machinists handbook
[02:13:09] <tjb1> I hate the "toolbox" handbook
[02:13:11] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/Home-Machinists-Handbook-Doug-Briney/dp/0830615733/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_5
[02:13:16] <ReadError> thats what i wanted
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[02:13:57] <tjb1> Seems like a waste for that one
[02:14:09] <tjb1> "Proper lighting and storage"
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[02:14:34] <tjb1> "Buying, using, and storing tools"
[02:14:35] <Tom_itx> http://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-29th-Toolbox-9780831129019/dp/083112900X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356919987&sr=1-1&keywords=machinists+handbook
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[02:15:26] <tjb1> The 28th I have is like tracing paper
[02:15:46] <ReadError> yea
[02:15:51] <ReadError> bible paper or something
[02:15:53] <Tom_itx> i think mine is 25 or so
[02:16:26] <tjb1> I have the digital version
[02:16:51] <Tom_itx> also have mark's standard handbook for mechanical engineers
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[02:20:39] <tjb1> Only other ref book I have is ugly's electrical references
[02:24:52] <tjb1> Going to be great if they can get an open source pellet to filament extruder going
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[02:32:11] <ReadError> they have the lyman
[02:32:13] <ReadError> or w/e it is
[02:32:18] <ReadError> seems pretty simple
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[02:33:08] <IndexWerkeB60> Thank you all.
[02:35:11] <tjb1> For that contest, <$250 and ability to color the filament
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[02:39:46] <tjb1> ReadError: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/557/filament-extruder-convert-pellets-to-filament
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[02:49:43] <t12> once going through all that diy
[02:50:00] <t12> wouldnt it be easier to just go straight from pellet -> printing extrusion head
[02:51:00] <Tom_itx> too much moveable mass
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[02:55:23] <t12> could still feed through a guide or something
[03:00:05] <tjb1> If you are feeding it through a guide you are basically printing the filament then
[03:00:25] <t12> my point is why bother going to a spool as an intermediate
[03:00:34] <t12> if you're going to produce filament right next to the printer anyway
[03:00:42] <t12> might as well run everything in tandem
[03:01:10] <JBFromOZ> makes the printer quite a bit more complex
[03:01:28] <tjb1> They have trouble with rectraction using direction pellet to extrusion
[03:01:32] <tjb1> *direct
[03:02:24] <tjb1> They also found they can't do individual pellet feeding reliably because of the size inconsistencies so you end up with a large reserve of one color
[03:02:27] <JBFromOZ> if you have multiple printers, would you want multiple pellet to printer setups
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[03:06:32] <tjb1> I'm going to apply for beta for that pellet extruder once I get my printer next month
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[04:51:51] <Jymmm> Anyone have access to Ford TSB?
[04:52:30] <frysteev> tchnical service bulletin?
[04:53:07] <Jymmm> yeah
[04:53:36] <Jymmm> There's 146, but I can only see a single sentance summary
[04:53:43] <frysteev> i have access at an oily haynes manual for an 1988 f150 does that count?
[04:54:04] <Jymmm> That doens't even count as a manual =)
[04:54:59] <frysteev> 'haynes manual' is what i said
[04:55:04] <Jymmm> frysteev: But, if your headlamps ever go out, check the ground screw under the hood on the fender wall
[04:55:14] <frysteev> its like 'genuine imatation leather'
[04:55:44] <frysteev> i have a bunch of haynes manuals from over the years and half of it is that same generic crap like body repair
[04:55:58] <frysteev> the older ones atleast had schematics,
[04:56:03] <Jymmm> I have the Ford Wiring manual, and the service manuals are on the way.
[04:56:24] <frysteev> the last one i saw had like 6 level circuit diagrams in it
[04:56:37] <frysteev> Jymmm: what did you break now?
[04:56:48] <Jymmm> lol, mine alone is 1" thick on wiring alone.
[04:56:50] <frysteev> and why havent you used EMC to replace your car computer?
[04:57:06] <Jymmm> frysteev: Not emissions certified
[04:59:25] <Jymmm> frysteev: and it's a car, not autonomous vechicle ya goober!
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[05:14:10] <tjb1> still havent figured that out
[05:26:19] <JBFromOZ> ok i've figured out the KL12 DRO mitutoyo has RS232 out, which gives me XY to 3 decimal places
[05:26:41] <JBFromOZ> is that something linuxcnc can use as input on serial to control steppers?
[05:30:34] <dhoovie> for feedback?
[05:32:22] <dhoovie> going to have to go through the hal documentation to see if there is a way to do that. I'm not sure tbh.
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[05:34:55] <JBFromOZ> yeah not sure of accuracy and condition of the leadscrews, they acmes not ballscrews, so thinking if i can position based on DRO, that might give good positional accuracy
[05:39:26] <dhoovie> hmmm... another thing I'm not sure is the speed of the readings that can be read from the DRO
[05:39:46] <dhoovie> maybe try to ebay some cheap quad encoders?
[05:40:28] <dhoovie> or buy some of those magnetic encoder ICs and try to get em to work
[05:41:32] <dhoovie> you could also try to measure the backlash and try to do some backlash compensation.
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[05:59:07] <JBFromOZ> hmm nothing in the docs about the speed of info off the KL12
[05:59:27] <JBFromOZ> so run the encoders straight to something else might be the go yeah?
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[06:30:16] <archivist> JBFromOZ, rather than mess with scales, replace the worn acme screws with ball screws with no backlash
[06:30:35] <archivist> better for machining
[06:30:41] <JBFromOZ> whats the budget for that tho?
[06:32:50] <archivist> you cannot/should not climb mill with backlash, most cam will climb mill, best finish is climb milling
[06:33:24] <Jymmm> For all you ice/snow below 0 lovin bastards... http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/59686_10151182965728348_1983164291_n.jpg
[06:36:44] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: This is your car, aint it? http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/14324_10151173782638348_1251398065_n.jpg
[06:36:54] <JBFromOZ> ahh now the "do not climb mill" from dad's mentor makes a lot more sense
[06:55:03] <alex4nder> ReadError: haha werd.
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[08:56:37] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:27:46] <Loetmichel> moin, re vom einkaufen...
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[14:26:48] <JT-Shop> 12.04 is so eyepad like it is a pita to use so far
[14:27:14] <Tom_itx> available on livecd yet?
[14:29:03] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, Agreed - but you get used to it. (I have been running it on my laptop for quite a while now) (default install - didn't change the gui)
[14:29:23] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: where is the package manager?
[14:30:12] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, top most icon on the menu bar is search - just type in what you are looking for
[14:30:17] <JT-Shop> and the terminal
[14:30:32] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, CTRL-ALT-T
[14:30:43] <skunkworks> or search for it.
[14:30:55] <JT-Shop> nothing matches
[14:31:24] <JT-Shop> there is the terminal
[14:31:50] <skunkworks> oh - isn't the package manager right on the menu to the left?
[14:32:05] <JT-Shop> no, that is the update thing
[14:32:14] <skunkworks> (hold on - booting laptop
[14:32:19] <JT-Shop> ok
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[14:39:30] <skunkworks> ok - I was using the 'ubuntu software center' that is on the menu
[14:42:41] <skunkworks> which to me was the 'synatic package manager' from 10.04
[14:43:19] <skunkworks> it allows you to change change software soruces and such
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[15:02:43] <JT-Shop> ok i'll check it out
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[15:17:31] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, going to try xnomi?
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[15:18:54] <JT-Shop> if I can get the ELO touchscreen to work, yes
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[15:19:29] <JT-Shop> I was trying to verify the libusb version as the elo driver requires it
[15:19:48] <JT-Shop> damn apr touchscreen is a pia
[15:27:33] <skunkworks> yeck
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[15:39:16] <skunkworks> heh - instead of 3 - 1tb sas hard drives from an abay - I recieved the passenger mirror for a honda.
[15:40:06] <archivist> phail
[15:40:17] <skunkworks> They took care of it. :)
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[15:54:53] <JT-Shop> 5 keyways broached 4 to go
[15:55:37] <archivist> something satisfying about broaching keyways
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[16:00:58] <JT-Shop> be even better if all the teeth were sharp on the broach
[16:03:41] <archivist> using a drill press is a bit naughty though
[16:04:28] <JT-Shop> 50 ton press here
[16:04:59] <Tom_itx> slitting saw on a horizontal
[16:05:19] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, progressive broach?
[16:05:58] <JT-Shop> I'm not completly clear on what a progressive broach is...
[16:06:34] <Tom_itx> for example in a round hole, a hex broach that starts out undersize and gradually steps up to size
[16:06:38] <archivist> I have the 00 http://www.dumont.com/broaches/keyway-sets/american-standard/
[16:06:57] <JT-Shop> yea, dumont keyway broach
[16:07:19] <JT-Shop> 6mm broach 20mm bushing, takes two passes
[16:07:37] <archivist> expensive I see, got mine surplus
[16:07:54] <JT-Shop> I just buy one when I need it
[16:08:20] <Tom_itx> if it comes in a padded box you can count on it being expensive :)
[16:10:17] <skunkworks> drill 'press' what is naughty? ;)
[16:10:57] <archivist> the table was bending, looked like it was about to break
[16:11:10] <skunkworks> we have a large drill press we use for pressing bearings and such. (#5 morris iirc) it allows you to 'feel' better.
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[16:11:51] <skunkworks> #4 maybe
[16:12:03] <Tom_itx> so block under the drill table
[16:12:25] <Tom_itx> the thrust bearings don't care
[16:12:28] <archivist> was floor standing
[16:12:41] <Tom_itx> long 4 x 4 post
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[16:56:41] <tjb1> http://imgur.com/gallery/kNdD7
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[18:15:26] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[18:15:32] <IchGuckLive> hi all and happy new Year for all that write already 2013
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[18:25:25] <JT-Shop> making progress with 12.04 and ELO APR touchscreen :)
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[18:33:45] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: with linuxcnc sim ?
[18:35:39] <JT-Shop> no, just trying to get this PIA APR touchscreen to work
[18:38:39] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by have a good party
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[18:40:45] <bpuk> Hmm, is that the old serial port ELO TS? or the slightly newer usb one
[18:42:04] <JT-Shop> it is a USB APR touch screen, brand new. I have no problems making the serial intellitouch screens working but this one is giving me fits
[18:43:45] <bpuk> thought it was an ebayed one for some reason - the one I have is one of the serial ones, which worked well (except for calibration being a bit erratic). I'll wish you luck with the USB bit
[18:45:58] <JT-Shop> I'm in touch with ELO tech support and their last request was to try it on a Wondoze computer to see if the hardware was ok
[18:47:26] <bpuk> Blimey, they're breaking out the big guns then
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[19:04:24] <ReadError> i hate newyears
[19:04:31] <ReadError> it takes me like 2 months to write the new year
[19:04:42] <ReadError> i always forget, and hardly write dates on checks or anything..
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[19:06:27] <tjb1> I hardly write the date on anything anymore
[19:06:37] <tjb1> The 5 or so papers I do a semester
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[19:43:12] <skunkworks> JT-Shop:
[19:43:20] <skunkworks> you can install synaptic if you want...
[19:43:30] <skunkworks> sudo apt-get install synaptic
[19:43:44] <skunkworks> http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/12/linuxcnc-on-ubuntu-12-04lts/
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[20:04:50] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: thanks
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[20:07:37] <JT-Shop> what the heck is this "If your Xserver does not use X
[20:07:38] <JT-Shop> authentication"
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[20:09:47] <JT-Shop> http://www.elotouch.com/files/install/Elo-Linux-APR-v2.2.0_Installation-Instructions.txt
[20:13:16] <bpuk> If you're not using Xauth - not aware of any major distro that isn't. If you're using it you'll have a file ~/.Xauthority
[20:14:27] <bpuk> usually used for connecting to an X server over SSH - still used for local connections (X gets a bit odd sometimes...)
[20:16:32] <ReadError> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/featured-cnc-products/wireless-mpg-handwheel-for-mach3-controller
[20:16:46] <ReadError> anyone used that with the hid tool for linuxcnc ?
[20:18:12] <ReadError> http://hidcomp.sourceforge.net/
[20:27:10] <adb> needs link for 2.5.1 download
[20:27:53] <ReadError> i still have 2.5 ;/
[20:28:39] <adb> wheezy here ..
[20:30:07] <adb> on squeeze 2.5 worked well ..
[20:30:39] <JT-Shop> ubuntu 12.04 is garbage just like a eyepad you can't configure anything
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[20:31:50] <ReadError> ya i cant see any reason to upgrade
[20:33:18] <JT-Shop> well I'm trying to get this ELO touch screen to work so I'm trying everything
[20:33:31] <JT-Shop> guess I'll try windblows XP again
[20:33:47] <bpuk> did it work on 10.4? (or windoze?)
[20:33:56] <JT-Shop> has not worked yet
[20:34:16] <JT-Shop> at this point it is a $500 15" monitor
[20:35:23] <jdh> did you buy it new?
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[20:37:37] <JT-Shop> yes
[20:38:02] <tjb1> Can't you get one without that acoustic touch?
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[20:38:18] <jdh> I have 20ish elo's at work. They are all windows though.
[20:39:14] <PCW> does it show up with
[20:39:17] <PCW> xinput list
[20:40:07] <adb> JT-Shop, http://rivendell.tryphon.org/wiki/ELO_touchscreen_setup_%28debian/KDE%29
[20:40:16] <JT-Shop> PCW: no
[20:40:20] <adb> same on ubuntu
[20:40:52] <JT-Shop> that is not for the APR models
[20:41:32] <JT-Shop> I have an ELO Intellitouch and it works with elographics
[20:41:46] <JT-Shop> PCW: it does show up in lsusb
[20:42:11] <diatonic> JT-Shop: Have you tried 'sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-elographics' (no idea if this is still relevant … I mostly avoid Ubuntu)
[20:42:23] <diatonic> from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EloTouchScreen
[20:43:03] <diatonic> I was a bit slow reading your latest responses … oops
[20:43:26] <cradek> JT-Shop: how about lsusb
[20:46:18] <JT-Shop> PCW: it does show up in lsusb
[20:46:45] <PCW> is this with 10.04 or 12.04?
[20:47:48] <JT-Shop> diatonic: that is not for the APR (Acoustic Pulse Recognition) monitors
[20:48:09] <JT-Shop> PCW: lsusb shows the monitor in both 10.04 and 12.04
[20:48:25] <JT-Shop> the 10.04 is the linuxcnc live cd
[20:48:48] <PCW> and xinput list shows it on neither?
[20:49:00] <JT-Shop> I didn't try xinput on 10.04
[20:49:14] <JT-Shop> I can install it fresh and try
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[20:50:41] <JT-Shop> "APR works in a simple and elegant wayby recognizing the sound created when the glass is touched at a given position." If you could get it to work!
[20:50:54] <PCW> you have probably already looked at this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touchscreen
[20:51:39] <JT-Shop> no, I've not seen that page yet
[20:53:02] <JT-Shop> the APR touchscreen has to download a file from the screen with the eloapr utility to work
[20:53:40] <PCW> does that work?
[20:54:02] <JT-Shop> it worked in 12.04 only
[20:54:14] <cradek> download a file from the screen!?
[20:54:52] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:54:57] <cradek> they've lost their minds
[20:55:21] <JT-Shop> Now run the driver from the terminal to detect the new APR touchscreen and
[20:55:21] <JT-Shop> download the characterization data file. This data download will take a few
[20:55:21] <JT-Shop> minutes to complete and is done only once per touchscreen. This data, stored on
[20:55:21] <JT-Shop> the hard disk, is unique for every touchscreen and is used by the driver to
[20:55:21] <JT-Shop> work with a specific touchscreen.
[20:55:36] <PCW> seems pretty trixy for a mouse replacement
[20:55:40] <cradek> can you return it and get a monitor with 80% fewer stupid gimmicks?
[20:56:09] <PCW> ahh must be calibration data
[20:56:14] <JT-Shop> that is pretty much my plan when I give up... I did buy it through Amazon :)
[20:56:27] <cradek> yay
[20:56:52] <cradek> I guess it would be cool to have calibration stored in the screen
[20:57:08] <JT-Shop> seems neat to not have to calibrate it
[20:57:12] <cradek> although it oughta be built in, and the driver should only see correct screen coordinates
[20:57:36] <cradek> this way is backasswards
[20:57:52] <PCW> Yeah why is that data not on a $.60 EEPROM
[20:58:50] <cradek> PCW: if only we designed hardware ... wait
[20:59:18] <PCW> I think that's what we pay for the 2M byte ones nowadays
[20:59:22] <bpuk> when PCW designs and builds a touchscreen, count me in :D
[20:59:46] <PCW> We did! (around 1988)
[20:59:55] <bpuk> got any left? :P
[21:00:04] <jdh> touch screen calibration is different for different people.
[21:00:04] <PCW> Multitouch!
[21:00:08] <cradek> periodic user calibration was really important on CRTs
[21:00:18] <jdh> we have issues with short + tall people using the same fixed height monitors
[21:01:06] <bpuk> one of the screens we have at work (simatic) works perfectly at 22C - as soon as the extruder underneath gets up to 180C the touchscreen stops working (or rather, needs recalibrating). Stupid place to put a touchscreen
[21:02:17] <bpuk> btw, do any of your PC/104+ cards run linuxcnc?
[21:02:26] <PCW> No
[21:03:10] <PCW> we haven't really made CPUs for many years (we do supply them to existing customers)
[21:04:19] <PCW> This may change if we decide to do something with Zynq
[21:04:32] <bpuk> ah. Given the drive towards Mini-ITX I guess PC/104 has been left behind somewhat?
[21:05:12] <bpuk> (that's industry wide, not mesa specifically)
[21:05:14] <PCW> A lot of PC104 is for tough environments MiniITX is no-go there
[21:05:43] <Jymmm> Just wrap in duct tape, it'll be fine.
[21:08:59] <bpuk> Next daft question of the evening: from memory, the 5i20 supports encoder pulse rates of around 4.4 MHz max (10 MHz absolute max?) - is that per channel, or across all the connected pins
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[21:10:26] <PCW> per channel (10 MHz is a daughter card = RS-422 receiver limitation)
[21:10:30] <tjb1> Jymmm: fix your truck yet
[21:11:27] <bpuk> oh good - I've been looking at glass scales lately, and the 0.1 micron ones look shiny - but since they worked out at about 1.2 MHz base pulse rate I figured it was better to double check that
[21:12:14] <PCW> Make sure they have differential outputs at that data rate
[21:12:42] <PCW> 1.2 MHz is fine even for muxed encoders
[21:14:27] <bpuk> hmm, looks to be differential (PA and not-PA listed on pinout)
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[21:15:22] <bpuk> and the output circuit diagram, such as it is, has a opamp with a not symbol on the second output line - which I'm guessing is a differential transmitter. Looks good.
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[21:19:09] <bpuk> So, whatever happened to the multitouch-screen?
[21:21:53] <PCW> It was part of a flat panel PC we made with a Planar EL display
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[21:24:20] <PCW> Been so long I barely remember it
[21:24:21] <PCW> Pretty sure it used a 8051 though
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[21:39:18] <JT-Shop> the best thing about today is everything I've made today has passed the cat scan and has the Woody paw print of approval on it :)
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[21:43:22] <PCW> cat scan LOL
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[21:44:33] <bpuk> glad to hear everything has gone well today then ;)
[21:45:07] <PCW> Well I learned not to leave squash on the back porch stairs.
[21:45:08] <PCW> the sheep climbed the stairs and stole one
[21:46:39] <bpuk> things I never expected to learn from #linuxcnc: sheep like to steal marrows
[21:48:20] <bpuk> things I learned today: When you buy a machine (and vice) from ebay - don't expect the vice jaws to be parallel. When you go to the grinder to fix said jaws, expect the grinder to spontaneously break.
[21:49:51] <JT-Shop> I was amazed to see a nuthatch fly off with a whole peanut in their mandibles... it just doesn't look like it will fit.
[21:50:03] <bpuk> on the bright side, the vice is now fixed and works as expected - pity that was pretty much all I got done today (and it didn't pass JT's cat scan :D)
[21:50:12] <JT-Shop> lol
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[21:54:34] <bpuk> Next question: With the exception of one bloke on the mailing list - has anyone used and had a problem with the D525MW (or even better, hasn't had a problem)?
[21:55:28] <bpuk> (Yes, I'm slightly bored and shopping for the next machine)
[22:00:31] <tjb1> Im ordering the d525mw in 2 weeks, hope there is no problems with it
[22:03:46] <PCW> They seem to work well especially for software stepping but they will run out
[22:03:48] <PCW> of horsepower pretty soon if you have a fancy configuration
[22:03:50] <PCW> (large classic ladder config, fast servo thread etc)
[22:04:31] <JT-Shop> I have one BOXD525MW and two D510s, one D510 lost the LAN port the other two are still in machines
[22:04:41] <bpuk> PCW: since all my machines are 5i20 based - and the next one is likely to be servo based, any other suggested boards
[22:05:49] <Jymmm> tjb1: No. I repaired the cluster last night (digital odometer doens't always want to display, known cold solder joint issue), about to install it in the dash right now. Waiting for the Shop eManuals to arrive, going to trace out a possible bad connection as well.
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[22:06:37] <PCW> the D525 is fine for most servo systems, where I would have reservations is complex classic ladder configurations
[22:06:38] <PCW> or torque mode drives or linear motors where you will need a 4KHz or faster servo thread
[22:07:03] <Jymmm> PCW: classic ladder is more resource intensive?
[22:07:11] <Jymmm> in general
[22:07:13] <PCW> yes
[22:07:32] <Jymmm> Is that due to the parallel nature?
[22:07:37] <PCW> the D525 cant manage much more than a 1KHz servo thread
[22:08:07] <Jymmm> oh, different contexts
[22:08:18] <Jymmm> ignore me
[22:09:50] <tjb1> Jymmm: Well good luck, electrical problems are the worst
[22:11:22] <Jymmm> tjb1: "electrical" I can handle, no problem. It's the electronics that are a pita.
[22:11:40] <Jymmm> tjb1: module this, sensor that, etc.
[22:12:09] <Jymmm> We need an Open Source/Hardware car!
[22:12:14] <tjb1> Yes, my moms car has a misfire that we haven't been able to nail down yet
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[22:12:28] <Jymmm> PCW: Care to donate a few fpga cards to the cause =)
[22:13:56] <Jymmm> Though, I do suspect that due to the I/O this might be better http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/HW-SPAR3A-SK-UNI-G.htm
[22:14:59] <Loetmichel> tjb1: hadn had problems on this with my old car...
[22:15:16] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3527
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[22:15:44] <Loetmichel> ... no electronics... runs under water as long as no water gets into the intake ;-)
[22:16:56] <bpuk> Can't speak for the spartan - but got a few systems running on stellaris, and for I/O they're pretty nifty
[22:21:52] <ReadError> is there a good live gcode viewer IDE ?
[22:22:02] <ReadError> where you can write stuff and it shows up as you go
[22:22:32] <ReadError> syntax checking and all that fancy stuff..
[22:22:32] <bpuk> tried GWE? not the greatest simulator, but keeps getting better http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCGWizardE.html
[22:23:53] <ReadError> hmm checking now have not seen this before
[22:25:00] <bpuk> I use the other program he does for a lot of my feeds+speeds - don't use GWE much, but since it's free at the moment it's probably worth checking out. If that's no use for you I can probably think of a couple of others I've trialled
[22:34:04] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop
[22:34:12] <Tom_itx> do you fire off the cannons at midnight?
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[22:39:49] <JT-Shop> I'm a daylight cannoneer, but the thought has crossed my mind...
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[22:51:17] <JT-Shop> good news Hi John,
[22:51:17] <JT-Shop> It sounds like you might have a bad monitor.
[22:59:52] <bpuk> That is suprisingly good news, have they agreed to replace it yet?
[23:00:23] <JT-Shop> that was tech support, and I don't want a replacement unless it is an Intellitouch
[23:00:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Kinda interesting... realistic synth voice http://www.loquendo.com/en/demo-center/interactive-tts-demo/
[23:01:12] <JT-Shop> is it Steven Hawkins?
[23:01:22] <Jymmm> realistic
[23:01:31] <JT-Shop> ah, I missed that part
[23:01:35] <Jymmm> =)
[23:01:58] <Jymmm> CNC for blind operators?
[23:02:13] <ReadError> hey Tom_itx
[23:02:21] <ReadError> i got some of those center drillers today
[23:02:32] <ReadError> so ill have another go at it tonight
[23:02:56] <JT-Shop> for your lathe?
[23:04:41] <ReadError> yea
[23:04:58] <ReadError> and i got some index bits
[23:05:06] <ReadError> so i hope they are pre-sharpened
[23:05:16] <ReadError> (cheap HF stuff)
[23:08:23] <toastydeath> inserts are generally not "sharp"
[23:08:28] <alex_joni> happy 2013 all
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[23:09:06] <tjb1> Lots of pictures ReadError :)
[23:10:09] <ReadError> i dont want to post more of my #fail
[23:14:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You future freak you!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR
[23:15:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Lil late aint ya? It's already 0114
[23:15:38] <bpuk> 23:15 here - I'm guessing alex_joni is in europe
[23:16:06] <Jymmm> bpuk: 2012-12-31 15:15:38 bpuk: 23:15 here - I'm guessing alex_joni is in europe
[23:16:38] <toastydeath> how often do you guys use oscilloscopes
[23:16:59] <Jymmm> 90's =)
[23:17:38] <Jymmm> only cause I can't afford a nice one without it being a boat anchor.
[23:18:03] <bpuk> how odd - my computer clock shows that it's 23:17 here now. I'm assuming that the timestamp is the server time
[23:18:23] <Jymmm> bpuk: 2012-12-31 15:18:03 bpuk: how odd - my computer clock shows that it's 23:17 here now. I'm assuming that the timestamp is the server time
[23:18:45] <Jymmm> Thats my local machine time, not server.
[23:18:50] <bpuk> toastydeath: Often - when the signal is too fast for my analogue scope (since I can't justify the money for a modern DSO) I use halscope
[23:20:03] <Jymmm> toastydeath: This is as close as I'll be getting to a scope for a while http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXSGBzNFDOs
[23:20:08] <JT-Shop> toastydeath: only when I have to
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[23:20:44] <toastydeath> hahaha
[23:20:52] <bpuk> ah, fair enough. You must be a while behind me then. Pacific standard?
[23:21:02] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Wut?
[23:21:03] <toastydeath> i am weirdly fascinated by oscilloscopes but all I have is a busted up analog one
[23:21:31] <toastydeath> i want to get a used dso but I'm not good enough at electronics troubleshooting yet to justify it
[23:21:41] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Oh, wanna see something slick you can do with a scope?
[23:21:49] <toastydeath> a lot of them in the 500-600 dollar range have FFT
[23:21:54] <toastydeath> sure
[23:22:01] * bpuk settles in and waits for explosions
[23:22:26] <toastydeath> i looked at new dsos but it doesn't seem like a great buy compared to the same price used
[23:22:35] <toastydeath> esp looking at how they're built
[23:22:48] <Jymmm> ~~~ Use a scope to measure the length and impedance of coax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il_eju4D_TM
[23:22:56] <Jymmm> toastydeath: ^^^^^^^^^^^
[23:22:59] <toastydeath> oh, i've done that
[23:23:02] <toastydeath> tdr
[23:23:19] <toastydeath> i can't get work to buy me a cheap scope and pulse generator to troubleshoot lines
[23:23:36] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Get a DDS then
[23:24:03] <toastydeath> dds?
[23:25:17] <Jymmm> toastydeath: You can go super cheap $5 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-AD9850-module-modest-capacity-AD9851-DDS-Function-Generator-up-to-40MHZ-/110993903646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d7c0901e or you can go fancy/self-contained... http://www.ebay.com/itm/AD9851-2-sine-Square-wave-LCD1602-DDS-Signal-Generator-Module-89S52-Study-Board-/290696608319?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item43aede3a3f
[23:25:24] <bpuk> Jymmm: Bah, was expecting someting much more fun
[23:26:42] <toastydeath> that could workj
[23:26:43] <toastydeath> *work
[23:27:02] <Jymmm> bpuk: I said fun, not wipe your ass easy =)
[23:28:04] <Jymmm> toastydeath: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AD9851-DDS-Function-Signal-Generator-50MHz-DDS-Source-SCM-DDS-Module-/160765044884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256e57e894
[23:28:06] <bpuk> hey, getting an old oscilloscope to have a perfect pyrotechnic explosion ain't wipe your ass easy, not far off but....
[23:28:40] <toastydeath> i think i'll be buying kits soon
[23:28:43] <toastydeath> so that will probably be on there
[23:29:53] <Jymmm> bpuk: then hit the hardware store, everythign is there
[23:30:02] <bpuk> but regardless, I get fairly good results with my analogue scope (80's tech) - but the modern kits can probably do much better - if I see a fairly modern DSO at a reasonable price I'll snap it up - the analogue one just can't manage to keep up with stepper pulses
[23:30:40] <bpuk> shhh. according to my government everything explosive related needs a license and isn't readily available - for the love of pete don't tell them it still is.
[23:30:43] <toastydeath> bpuk, there are 400 mhz real time dsos on ebay for like 500 bucks
[23:31:15] <toastydeath> lecroy and agilent
[23:31:46] <bpuk> ayup, and about £600 over here (or about the same once shipping is accounted for) - I have more important things to spend my money on. Given the choice I'll continure to use textronix - agilent ain't bad - can't speak for lecroy
[23:32:06] <toastydeath> lecroy is as good as or better than aligent from what I hear
[23:33:24] <toastydeath> the one annoying thing about lecroy is that it's hard to tell from the listings what options the scopes have on them
[23:34:00] <Jymmm> toastydeath: if you have an arduino, you can use it and the cheap DDS
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[23:35:13] <toastydeath> i do not
[23:35:41] <bpuk> hmm, quick ebay search for 'Lecroy DSO' shows about £1100 from the UK, between £1,500 and £34,000 from the states - one or two cheaper on there, but either way, waaaay out of budget
[23:35:55] <toastydeath> ouch
[23:36:58] <bpuk> given that the shiny 0.1 micron (0.004 thou) resolution scales I'm looking at run about £1300 ea - I know which is more useful atm
[23:37:50] <bpuk> Jymmm: That video is kinda interesting - not sure I'd go as far as 'fun' but, interesting
[23:38:38] <Jymmm> bpuk: lies, all lies!
[23:39:17] <Jymmm> toastydeath: You MIGHT be able to use paraport, I don't know would have to google around.
[23:39:58] <toastydeath> it's not that critical because the only place i'd use tdr is work
[23:40:09] <Jymmm> toastydeath: Maybe this might help http://www.elecfreaks.com/2110.html
[23:40:16] <bpuk> I wonder how the mesa boards would do - I know they don't have an ADC onboard - but given the 10Mhz sampling rate it might be possible to get an acceptable rate
[23:40:23] <toastydeath> if i sharpen up my electronics skills further, they'll just buy me some kit
[23:40:29] <Jymmm> toastydeath: MAYBE one of the emc devs could create a plugin for it =)
[23:40:34] <toastydeath> hahaha
[23:41:17] <toastydeath> my boss's opinion is that he trusts me to say whether or not we'll use particular equipment, so if I think I really can use it, I can have it
[23:41:23] <tjb1> Jymmm: I feel like im in the 90s, snow on a webpage
[23:41:41] <Jymmm> tjb1: you are, now shut up and enjoy the show!
[23:41:47] <tjb1> *snow
[23:41:51] <toastydeath> at home I think a multimeter and some projects to solder up are all i need for now
[23:41:56] <Jymmm> sh|now
[23:43:09] <tjb1> sh|n?
[23:44:01] <bpuk> :1/$s/sn/now/g?
[23:46:35] <bpuk> I am kinda curious about the serial mesa interface and ADC's though - wonder how many channels could be supported at a reasonable speed. The front end isn't exactly complicated if you're feeding to an ADC
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[23:47:44] <PCW> The sserial interface is for servo thread rate stuff (1-10 KHz)
[23:48:02] <bpuk> So way too slow for a scope - ah well
[23:49:49] <PCW> Theres a parallel DAC interface in HM2 good for about 25 Ms/sec (16 bits)
[23:52:12] <PCW> its designed for demand mode DMA but you can just fill the FIFO and read with programmed I/O at you leisure if you dont need streaming data at that rate
[23:53:25] <bpuk> by the monkeys, you are far too good at answering semi-random questions with detailed... details PCW.
[23:55:48] <toastydeath> most scopes sample at 2x-3x their frequency anyway if you're not doing single shot triggering
[23:56:22] <toastydeath> so even with 10 khz you could get something out of it
[23:57:41] <bpuk> not if your signal is at 1.2 MHz... Need a fairly chunky DSO to get reasonable readings then. Oddly enough it's not the analogue end that's the problem on the current scope, it's the screen update rate - doesn't show a full signal at anything like a reasonable rate
[23:58:26] <toastydeath> haha, sorry - didn't realize the signal was that high
[23:59:05] <bpuk> can just about manage 10kHz on the analogue scope - but the signal tends to be fragmented onscreen
[23:59:08] <toastydeath> also what do you mean, doesn't show a full signal
[23:59:39] <bpuk> literally - draws half the signal on the CRT then gives up and starts again - skips the second half of the signal
[23:59:46] <toastydeath> ouch