Back
[00:00:00] <toastydeath> shims and tape, etc
[00:00:29] <toastydeath> or, if you know how much your epoxy material shrinks
[00:00:36] <toastydeath> per inch
[00:00:57] <JT-Shop> tjb1: ?
[00:01:02] <toastydeath> all you do is vacuum it straight to the rail and when the epoxy cures, you release the vacuum and it'll be at that height
[00:01:06] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Where are those pictures
[00:01:20] <JT-Shop> been making parts...
[00:01:29] <toastydeath> a third method is just to not care about gap at all, because the pressure will create the right gap in most circumstances
[00:04:02] <JT-Shop> well actually for the last 3 hrs I've been drinking and shooting with the other children
[00:04:47] <Valen> ooh did anybody say "hold my beer and watch this?"
[00:04:48] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/240012
[00:05:21] <Valen> looks industrial
[00:06:51] <JT-Shop> we were quite reserved today it was Charlie's birthday... may he rest in peace
[00:07:32] <JT-Shop> removed the top delrin slide and replaced it with a roller... works nice and smooth
[00:07:40] <JT-Shop> well two rollers
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[00:09:51] <Valen> toastydeath: you guys used graphite to get the air in, not really needed you think?
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[00:10:38] <toastydeath> graphite was the surface
[00:10:49] <toastydeath> and we still made a few oriface and groove bearings, etc
[00:10:56] <toastydeath> brb though, food
[00:13:47] <tjb1> Very nice JT-Shop
[00:14:03] <JT-Shop> thanks]
[00:15:50] * JT-Shop is the pizza chef so time to cook
[00:16:53] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myabbp4G5H0
[00:17:13] <kwallace> From scratch?
[00:17:20] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:17:40] <JT-Shop> the dough is ready now...
[00:18:40] <andypugh> Valen: I see a huge problem with those stretchy wires.
[00:19:04] <andypugh> We are about to run out of Indium. even without a new use being found.
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[00:36:39] <kwallace> andypugh: Thanks a lot. I did a search on your basque reference from a couple of days ago but left my speakers on. :-0
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[00:40:23] <andypugh> Squeaky?
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[00:42:44] <kwallace> The link had music, Boom Bada Bomp Bada Bomp. Not the best in the office. I haven't heard Techno for a long while.
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[00:49:53] <toastydeath> Valen, re: graphite, graphite is porous so using that allowed us to not drill holes for oriface bearings
[00:50:13] <toastydeath> building graphite bearings takes a lot of r&d and a very reliable source of graphite
[00:50:27] <toastydeath> otherwise every bearing is way different
[00:50:52] <toastydeath> whereas oriface bearings are harder to make en masse and perform slightly less well, but are way easy to make consistent and with minimal tooling
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[00:53:33] <Valen> got any links for where to start?
[00:53:39] <toastydeath> hm.
[00:54:25] <toastydeath> I don't know of any websites, but if you can find a torrent version of this book
[00:54:34] <toastydeath> there is a chapter on fluid bearings, both air and hydraulic
[00:54:35] <toastydeath> http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Machine-Design-Alexander/dp/0872634922
[00:55:12] <toastydeath> and googling around will more than give you enough information to start
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[00:58:19] <toastydeath> and if you do something that has preload to it, the design of the bearing is ultra-tolerant because the gap is determined by air pressure , not really the inlet restriction design
[00:58:37] <toastydeath> you can do essentially anything as long as it's preloaded and it will turn into an air bearing
[00:59:02] <Valen> doing it with 3 axies of stability could be an interesting challenge
[00:59:14] <Valen> What would you suggest using as a rail for a linear axis?
[00:59:37] <toastydeath> for an air bearing?
[00:59:41] <Valen> yeah
[00:59:49] <toastydeath> anything smooth
[00:59:56] <toastydeath> that you are comfortable machining
[01:00:02] <toastydeath> you can flycut aluminum
[01:00:16] <Valen> It'd be good for high speed lol
[01:00:42] <toastydeath> air bearings are nice in that there's little concern about surface contact
[01:00:47] <toastydeath> so it doesn't matter TOO much what you make it out of
[01:01:04] <toastydeath> iron can be scraped, obviously
[01:01:07] <toastydeath> and hard steel can be lapped
[01:01:35] <toastydeath> and a hobbyist can buy it hard, load a good insert into a flycutter
[01:01:37] <toastydeath> and get it close
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[01:01:49] <toastydeath> then hand lap it using the same process as scraping
[01:02:18] <toastydeath> some people like to use granite for air bearings because it laps REALLY nicely and is very stable
[01:02:46] <Valen> what sort of gap between the bearing and the slide would we be looking at?
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[01:03:14] <toastydeath> if you use a design that's preloading (has opposed bearings in every direction) you don't need to worry about the gap
[01:03:26] <toastydeath> the bearings should contact the surface
[01:03:49] <toastydeath> the air will deform the carriage enough to work just fine
[01:04:07] <toastydeath> if you want to set the gap yourself, .0002-.0005"
[01:04:20] <toastydeath> the bigger the gap, the higher the flow the bearing needs to be
[01:04:29] <toastydeath> and the bigger the gap, the less accurate the axis will be
[01:04:35] <toastydeath> and less rigid
[01:04:54] <Valen> so preload across the bearing not within the bearing?
[01:05:00] <toastydeath> ya
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[01:05:15] <toastydeath> air bearings are preloaded much in the same way a C clamp works
[01:05:24] <Valen> how do you think it'd compare for a bunch of amatures vs off the shelf linear rails?
[01:05:25] <toastydeath> one is fixed, the other one has a screw pushing it into the surface
[01:05:47] <toastydeath> depends; i know for a fact amatures can scrape and recondition machines if they try
[01:06:06] <toastydeath> it's going to be a LOT of work compared to linear rails.
[01:06:18] <toastydeath> you'll have to learn to scrape and lap
[01:06:30] <Valen> see that takes the edge off lol
[01:06:43] <toastydeath> and enough machine millwrighting knowledge, which is also available
[01:07:01] <toastydeath> it's a trade off; a rail is a one time cost, and is easy
[01:07:26] <toastydeath> you have to buy the equipment to make air bearing rails, but once you do it once, you can easily do it again for fairly cheap
[01:07:45] <toastydeath> equipment as in the stuff to measure and align a raw piece of stock into something worthy of guiding a machine
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[01:08:24] <toastydeath> i can't speak to THAT personally, because i've never had to do it; but on the practicalmachinist there's a huge number of folks who have at least learned scraping
[01:08:32] <toastydeath> *practicalmachinist forum
[01:09:51] <Tom_itx> it's a painfully tedious job
[01:09:52] <andypugh> It seems to me that supported linear rail with woods-metal bearings cast round them, inflated with air, might just work a treat.
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[01:10:26] <toastydeath> andypugh, if woods metal is porous enough, it should absolutely work
[01:10:29] <Tom_itx> our cmm had air bearings on it
[01:10:37] <toastydeath> and you can use stupid shit like nail polish to seal off the sides
[01:11:05] <andypugh> It's not porous at all. But it melts at a lower temperature than open-cell foam.
[01:11:29] <toastydeath> oh
[01:12:06] <andypugh> Not sure if that helps. And I have enough projects :-)
[01:12:08] <toastydeath> one of the things i am antsy to get out of college and move on with life for is to build air rails myself
[01:12:16] <toastydeath> to document it and show other people how
[01:12:33] <toastydeath> i know a lot about them from the professional side but not enough from the hand-work side
[01:12:46] <andypugh> I have scraped a few machine tools. My dad's lathe, the shaper, and my lathe.
[01:13:43] <andypugh> The guys who built my lathe scraped the front and back slides of the carriage quite well. Each was a pretty good fit to its rail. It is just a pity that they didn't both fit at the same time.....
[01:14:00] <toastydeath> aahahaha
[01:14:41] <toastydeath> there's another project i really want to take on aside from home built air rails
[01:14:43] <toastydeath> and that's capstan drive
[01:14:55] <toastydeath> for a homemade cnc jig grinder/boring machine
[01:15:10] <toastydeath> should be more accurate than any ballscrew
[01:15:48] <Valen> if you want accuracy just put a glass scale on the linear axis ;->
[01:16:11] <toastydeath> capstans are usually more accurate than the resolution of common glass scales
[01:16:38] <Valen> .001mm is off the shelf
[01:16:40] <toastydeath> very slow and can't handle cutting forces outside finish boring/turning/grinding
[01:17:20] <andypugh> One place I have thought that an air bearing would be useful and easy is a rotary table. Just hold it together with a spring washer, then feed air into the housing to lift the table off its seat. Turm off air to clamp.
[01:17:29] <toastydeath> the other issue is that the actual motion system and the scale aren't exactly coupled; you still get errors in following because the drive isn't accurate
[01:17:52] <toastydeath> and a well-made capstan is more accurate than .001mm
[01:18:00] <Valen> the "easy" way around that is to use 2 scales
[01:18:06] <toastydeath> in a temp controlled environment
[01:18:18] <Valen> one on the linear axis, the other on the motor for feedback
[01:18:25] <andypugh> The only capstan I have seen was on HMS Victory, and that hardly seemed accurate at all.
[01:18:34] <andypugh> (Maybe to the centi-fathom)
[01:18:39] <toastydeath> that doesn't help the problem of the drive not being accurate
[01:18:45] <toastydeath> you just see the errors after they happen
[01:18:48] <toastydeath> very very clearly
[01:18:51] <toastydeath> :D
[01:19:08] <Valen> I'm having difficulty finding any information on a capstain drive as it pertains to a CnC anything
[01:19:11] <Valen> its all tape decks
[01:19:34] <Valen> you use the linear scale for position feedback and the rotary scale for velocity, they can both feed into the one PID
[01:19:37] <toastydeath> it's a friction drive; it uses a lapped pin pinched against a lapped rail
[01:20:09] <toastydeath> Valen, none of that fixes the problem because the error has already happened by the time you are able to measure it
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[01:20:42] <Valen> so how does your capstain drive magically have no error?
[01:20:45] <toastydeath> it's one of those things that doesn't matter for 98% of machines, but if you want to build a jig grinder it's an issue
[01:21:00] <toastydeath> it has error, but it's very constant
[01:21:30] <toastydeath> whereas a screw has a periodic error per turn in addition to a pitch error
[01:21:47] <Valen> with a linear scale you could calibrate those out
[01:22:12] <toastydeath> in theory, you can calibrate any error anywhere out
[01:22:12] <Valen> assuming your rotary axis has higher resolution than the linear scale interpolate between linear counts
[01:22:41] <toastydeath> in practice, that doesn't work and is why high accuracy machines still rely on primary accuracy rather than corrected accuracy
[01:23:16] <toastydeath> the more accurate your machine is without any sort of correction, the better any correction you apply after the fact will be
[01:23:25] <Valen> thats a given ;->
[01:24:05] <toastydeath> i've seen a few high accuracy hobby projects over the years, so i am hoping that it'll work
[01:24:12] <toastydeath> if not, i'll have a really impressive paperweight
[01:26:09] <Valen> hrh
[01:26:11] <Valen> heh
[01:26:41] <Valen> well I'd better get going
[01:26:46] <toastydeath> bai2u
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[01:47:27] <tjb1> Ello.
[01:53:56] <toastydeath> oi
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[02:31:35] <skunkworks> interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh64OMb7DZg
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[03:47:54] <tjb1> Wake up!
[03:48:02] <tjb1> Only a little over a day left to live
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[04:06:34] <tjb1> Already at 16gb on my data plan :/
[04:09:09] <jdh> got unlimited?
[04:09:19] <tjb1> Yep
[04:09:26] <tjb1> Only 11 days into the cycle
[04:09:27] <jdh> do they throttle you?
[04:09:39] <tjb1> Downloading at 1.5 MBps right now
[04:13:06] <toxx> Hi folks, can anybody recommend me a reliable stepper driver for a machine like this:
https://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/index.php?cat=c12020_F1210.html
[04:13:16] <tjb1> Gecko.
[04:13:55] <jdh> depends on where you are and what you want
[04:14:02] <toxx> isn't gecko for servo drives?
[04:14:06] <tjb1> No
[04:14:15] <tjb1> They offer both
[04:14:29] <jdh> gecko 203 would be nice, but somewhat pricey.
[04:14:30] <archivist> I use this sort of chinese
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors
[04:15:00] <jdh> me too
[04:15:07] <tjb1> toxx: The G540 ends up being the cheapest out of Geckos and offers 4axis control
[04:15:19] <jdh> 540 isn't a good choice IMO
[04:15:31] <tjb1> Gets the job done :)
[04:16:02] <jdh> only 3.5amp
[04:16:03] <toxx> i ask for fablab munich / germany, we want good quality for this machine
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[04:16:21] <jdh> then I'd go for a servo :)
[04:17:02] <toxx> well, the machine comes with stepper motors
[04:17:16] <jdh> but no drivers?
[04:17:41] <jdh> that's a BF20 or clone mill?
[04:18:27] <jdh> with a big Made in Germany sticker?
[04:18:41] <toxx> if you order it with drivers, you stick to there microcontroller/software solution, which is quiet pricey
[04:19:09] <jdh> looks like better version of a bf20
[04:19:10] <toxx> not realy a clone
[04:19:22] <tjb1> Looks like a G0704
[04:19:24] <tjb1> :P
[04:19:36] <jdh> size/design, but not junky chinese
[04:19:52] <jdh> a g0704 is a bf20-l or so.
[04:20:06] <tjb1> toxx: What are the stepper specs?
[04:20:49] <jdh> looks like 6amp
[04:20:50] <toxx> I don't know, maybe 3A
[04:21:37] <tjb1> jdh: looks?
[04:21:46] <jdh> on the web site.
[04:21:47] <tjb1> I didnt see any steppers in that link
[04:21:57] <jdh> under cnc upgrade kits anyway
[04:21:58] <toxx> archivist: what are your experiences?
[04:22:22] <archivist> they just work
[04:23:11] <tjb1> They are bipolar 6amps in the upgrade kits
[04:24:07] <tjb1> G201X, G203V, G120X and G213V will work from Gecko
[04:24:15] <tjb1> *G210X
[04:25:08] <toxx> so geckodrive is state of the art?
[04:25:09] <jdh> or a chinese/leadshine
[04:25:48] <jdh> I'd talk to <whatshisname> at rammstein
[04:26:29] <tjb1> They are probably mid level
[04:26:41] <tjb1> I don't know of what is higher, but there is a lot below them
[04:27:11] <archivist> there are limits to the micro stepping on some drivers limiting your speed
[04:27:22] <jdh> gecko is fixed 10x
[04:27:39] <archivist> yup why!
[04:27:45] <jdh> "because"
[04:27:52] <toxx> what do you mean with chinese/leadshine
[04:28:09] <archivist> those I pointed at
[04:28:18] <jdh> there are lots of chinese drivers. They are either made by leadshine, or clones of them.
[04:28:29] <toxx> i see
[04:28:38] <jdh> are you in .de?
[04:29:01] <toxx> yes
[04:29:41] <jdh> I'd talk to IchGuckLive when he is around. Might be more useful in finding things easily available there.
[04:30:20] <toxx> i noticed him
[04:31:08] <tjb1> usually pops in about 12 hours from now
[04:31:51] <toxx> ok, thanks for your infos
[04:31:53] <archivist> there are two other .de users who will join in the morning
[04:32:20] <jdh> it's pretty much morning there now isn't it? :)
[04:33:01] <archivist> 4am in uk 5 .de I assume
[04:33:09] <toxx> well, not much time left on this earth, i guess :)
[04:33:33] <jdh> perhaps I shouldn't bother taking vacation on friday.
[04:33:54] <archivist> ask Loetmichel and DJ9DJ
[04:34:15] <jdh> I might have been thinking about Loetmichel actually.
[04:34:17] <toxx> ok
[04:38:45] <jdh> http://itgetsworseforsysadmins.tumblr.com/image/27570541204
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[04:49:09] <toxx> btw, does this work with the current linuxcnc version, or is it in developing state:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ProbeKins
[04:51:52] <jdh> that entry hasn't been updated since Jan.
[04:53:00] <toxx> seems to be in the emc2-dev branch
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[05:37:53] <tjb1> I'll pay someone to clean and sort the files on my computer and 3 hard drives
[05:37:55] <tjb1> Any takers?
[05:38:29] <toastydeath> hahah
[05:39:57] <tjb1> Guess you are a taker
[05:41:20] <toastydeath> NEGATIVE BLUE LEADER
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[05:41:41] <tjb1> I am Red leader
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[05:50:57] <tjb1> Woo, downloads folder empty
[05:51:28] <tjb1> Dropbox is a mess :/
[05:56:40] <tjb1> If someone could convert this -
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/HITCHPLATE.MCX - to dwg, that would be amazing
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[06:18:59] <tjb1> Well computer, dropbox, and 1 hard drive down…2 hard drive to go
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[07:56:10] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:11:21] <cncbasher> tjb1: change the mcx extension to dxf should do the trick
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[08:21:23] <archivist> how would that work as it is internally a mastercam format
[08:22:57] <archivist> getting a converter
http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/mcx
[08:23:38] <tjb1> archivist: I was hoping someone had mastercam here
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[08:24:34] <archivist> I think one or two do
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[08:25:35] <cncbasher> older mastercam files were just dxf formats
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[08:26:11] <cncbasher> i have mastercam but not installed at the moment ,
[08:26:18] <tjb1> I can do it when I get back to school but thats a month away
[08:26:56] <cncbasher> i need to go out for half an hour shortly , i can convert it once i return
[08:27:06] <archivist> dxf format is documented so you can look in the file and work it out
[08:27:11] <tjb1> Ill be asleep here shortly :)
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[08:27:41] <archivist> it is breakfast time
[08:28:02] <tjb1> Lucky you
[08:31:23] <tjb1> Got bacon?
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[08:32:10] <archivist> crumpets
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[08:33:30] <archivist> http://www.warburtons.co.uk/products/breakfast/crumpets but the fat mentioned there is wrong add butter
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[08:35:37] <tjb1> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184414_452821448099664_1854469943_n.jpg
[08:36:11] <tjb1> So its an english muffin...
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[08:52:09] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:59:25] <tjb1> toxx: There he is.
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[10:06:24] <cncbasher> tjb1:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48903110/HITCHPLATE.DWG
[10:16:46] <cncbasher> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/48903110/HITCHPLATE.DWG
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[14:31:05] <jdh> mhaberler: are you really here?
[14:31:19] <mhaberler> yes
[14:31:30] <jdh> is probekins yours?
[14:31:54] <mhaberler> that was never integrated, but yes
[14:32:00] <jdh> will it ever be?
[14:32:12] <mhaberler> my wine cellar is empty
[14:32:30] <mhaberler> iow: I would need some motivation ;)
[14:32:38] <jdh> heh
[14:32:55] <mhaberler> have a good use case?
[14:33:21] <ttuner> hi
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[14:33:42] <jdh> not specifically. I started playing with CNC stuff to try to make PCBs but my Z has never been good enough.
[14:33:43] <ttuner> i have been asking for the probekins
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[14:34:27] <mhaberler> it 'basically' works - it does have a serious issue if the path is along a edge of neighbouring triangles
[14:34:41] <mhaberler> could be some numerical instabiility problem
[14:35:13] <ttuner> there was this video at hackaday a while ago, how did they do it. just a moment
[14:35:26] <mhaberler> I dont think it is very hard - needs some tracing and though what could be wrong here
[14:36:01] <jdh> I tried someones python post-processor. It helped, but was messy.
[14:38:01] <mhaberler> well give it a spin, maybe you find the error
[14:38:33] <mhaberler> I didnt really need it, I just found the postprocessing "method" appalling
[14:39:14] <jdh> I'll try soon. I have about 5 more hours at work today then off til Jan 2
[14:39:32] <jdh> yeah. If it had some persistance, it would be better.
[14:50:14] <ttuner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqjKohZX2t8
[14:50:38] <ttuner> here it is, PCB height-probing and milling
[14:51:35] <ttuner> i thought, maybe this was done with linuxcnc, but it doesn't seems to
[14:52:37] <ttuner> ok, its done with pcbgcode
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[15:01:46] <mhaberler> that fellow needs a path optimizer badly ;)
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[15:02:43] <mhaberler> interesting
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[15:04:08] <mhaberler> well if you give it a stab, I'd be happy to help from the sidelines
[15:06:37] <toxx> it would generally be interesting for engraving
[15:07:07] <toxx> maybe on curved surfaces
[15:09:23] <archivist> that really needs the head/spindle to point at the surface normal though
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[15:10:44] <toxx> hmm, maybe just small curves :)
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[15:14:46] <toxx> Loetmichel: are you arround? I was told you could give me some information about stepperdrivers in .de
[15:15:15] <Loetmichel> toxx: i am
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[15:15:23] <Loetmichel> more or less
[15:15:26] <Loetmichel> <- at work
[15:15:36] <Loetmichel> what do you want to know?
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[15:16:57] <toxx> stepperdriver für eine wabeco, 6A motoren
[15:17:15] <toxx> sollen wir privat chatten, um nicht zu stören?
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[15:20:12] <DJ9DJ> re
[15:21:43] <toxx> ich probiers später nochmal
[15:22:54] <Loetmichel> toxx: we can do that here: only german alternative zu geco is the triplebeast from
[15:23:05] <Loetmichel> gecko
[15:23:28] <Loetmichel> http://benezan-electronics.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=61
[15:23:33] <Loetmichel> sotrry
[15:23:57] <Loetmichel> toxx: we can do that here: only german alternative to gecko is the triplebeast from
http://benezan-electronics.de/shop/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=61
[15:24:03] <Loetmichel> now its correct
[15:24:43] <toxx> i see
[15:25:20] <toxx> i am from fablab munich and we will buy a wabeco machine without drivers, 6A
[15:25:20] <jdh> they also went for fixed 10x uStep?
[15:26:51] <toxx> the driver is for 5A, is this no problem
[15:27:29] <Loetmichel> no, 1/5 and 1/10
[15:27:50] <Loetmichel> toastydeath: no problem, just a bit weaker than possible, but the motors stay cooler
[15:28:16] <Loetmichel> benezan has also beast and bigbeast, which are tsingle motor drivers in bigger
[15:28:25] <Loetmichel> grrr, i meant toxx
[15:28:47] <toxx> ok, thanks for the inf. interesting
[15:29:24] <Loetmichel> but benezan is the only one in germany who proiduces reliable CNC stepper drivers
[15:29:27] <toxx> you have experience with that?
[15:29:35] <Loetmichel> ... the only one in know of, that is ;-)
[15:29:49] <toxx> what about isel or nanotec?
[15:29:59] <Loetmichel> with the triplebeast: some. the beast i have seen only once
[15:30:13] <Loetmichel> but runs smooth and havent seen ansy complaints
[15:30:40] <Loetmichel> toxx: depends on your budget
[15:30:51] <toxx> i found this:
http://de.nanotec.com/schrittmotorsteuerungen.html
[15:30:58] <Loetmichel> the nanotec is overpriced japan/china chips relabeled
[15:31:08] <Loetmichel> isel ist just overpriced ;-)(
[15:31:25] <toxx> yes, that was my feeling too
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[15:33:16] <toxx> money isn't that problem. It should be reliable
[15:33:40] <Loetmichel> benezans stuff IS
[15:33:56] <Loetmichel> you can buy them at sorotec.de
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[15:35:35] <zoni1983> i need help with motenc lite
[15:35:59] <toxx> what do you mean with IS?
[15:36:18] <toxx> Leadshine?
[15:37:42] <zoni1983> i have an analoge drive with 250 ppr encoder
[15:38:53] <zoni1983> in a full circle the encoder gives 1000 pules with a 5mm pitch screw
[15:40:24] <Loetmichel> reliable
[15:40:28] <zoni1983> when i enter 1000 in input scale the motor does not rotate smoothly but whe i ender 9000 it works fine
[15:40:38] <zoni1983> why does rhis happen
[15:40:54] <toxx> ok, thanks a lot.
[15:41:44] <pcw_home> Ifyou change the input scale you will change the PID gain
[15:43:03] <pcw_home> input scale should probably be 200 (for mm machine units)
[15:43:29] <zoni1983> the pid value is 100 if i increase it the motor start vibrating
[15:43:59] <zoni1983> yes the input scale should be 200
[15:44:51] <pcw_home> but the PID gain is dependent on your input scale so you need to tune after the input scale is set
[15:45:38] <zoni1983> what do u suggest the p value should be
[15:46:12] <pcw_home> what type of drive (velocity, torque, Hbridge?)
[15:46:50] <zoni1983> it is old analue drive i think hybrid
[15:47:21] <pcw_home> Does the motor have a tachometer?
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[15:47:35] <zoni1983> yes
[15:47:48] <pcw_home> OK likely velocity mode
[15:48:07] <zoni1983> ok
[15:49:11] <pcw_home> so increase P until you get oscillations (jog to start oscillations) and then back off to about 1/2 the value that oscillated
[15:50:08] <pcw_home> Then you need to adjust FF1 to minimize following error during high constant speed
[15:50:12] <bnz> hi guys i have almost got my mill fully cnc'd and was wondering what toolpath software i should use for emc. i use linux and mac osX and have a 3 axis mill with dividing head. (just short one toothed belt and all the axis would be powered )
[15:50:39] <pcw_home> (I am assuming the drives velocity loop is tuned)
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[15:51:26] <zoni1983> when i enter the input scale 1000 the oscilation start at about 15 only
[15:52:21] <zoni1983> should this happen
[15:52:26] <pcw_home> Right, if you lower the input scale you raise th PID gain
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[15:54:12] <pcw_home> so set input scale correctly and 'P' very low to start
[15:54:56] <zoni1983> but if enter 1000 scale the motor oscilate very hard at even at 100 p
[15:55:21] <pcw_home> so set P to 1
[15:55:39] <zoni1983> should it be so low
[15:56:05] <pcw_home> its value is _dependent_ on input scale
[15:57:24] <pcw_home> which is why you must set input scale first
[15:57:27] <zoni1983> ok then one more thing i cannot get the out put voltage above .7 even at rapid go and motor rotates slowly
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[15:59:16] <zoni1983> in increased the accelaration and other values but nothing
[15:59:27] <pcw_home> I'm not familiar with Motenc but you probably need to do something with the DAC scale or PID max output
[16:00:07] <zoni1983> does this depend on pid
[16:00:15] <pcw_home> you can trace backwards though the HAL signals to see where you output is limited
[16:00:27] <pcw_home> s/you/your/
[16:01:05] <pcw_home> the PID comp has a max output parameter which might be the limiting factor
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[16:01:43] <zoni1983> ok thanks i will try and get back to u
[16:01:46] <pcw_home> also I dont know how the output scale (DAC scale) is set on the Motenc
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[16:02:15] <zoni1983> can i send u the i
[16:02:30] <zoni1983> ini and hal files
[16:04:09] <pcw_home> post them on pastebin.com
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[16:22:44] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: I'm out in the shop now
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[16:30:00] <tom3p> cheap mpg? resolver tester? scrap vcr heads have rotary xformers
http://nutsandboltsandflyingsparks.blogspot.in/2012/07/i-got-spinners-dawg.html
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[16:43:58] <skunkworks> tom3p: I didn't read through it all - but it looks similar to changing a stepping motor into a mpg
[16:45:04] <skunkworks> seen less ccompliccated ones..
http://www.webx.dk/oz2cpu/20m/encoder.htm
[16:46:30] <tom3p> my thought was 1) with encoder wheel its just an mpg, but 2) before chucking the innards, it has what looks like a resolver in it and maybe of use with anydpugh's arduino work
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[16:55:24] <tom3p_> never ever search irc channels in xchat-gnome. it hangs. the dialog window drags and erases on the window below. dangit thats MY rule & I forgot!
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[16:55:56] <mrsun> all irc chats hangs when doing a channel scan
[16:56:03] <mrsun> it has never ever worked :P
[16:56:36] <cradek> usually a busy irc server will have way too many active channels to list.
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[17:00:03] <tom3p_> faq: "Check the Gelhausen site for a current list."
[17:00:20] <tom3p_> http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode
[17:00:38] <tom3p_> bookmark it tommy!
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[17:51:55] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the World at the last day of the World O.O
[17:53:14] <tom3p_> well then, goodbye for a while :)
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[18:15:30] <tom3p> gene77, are you geneH?
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[18:21:19] <tom3p> http://videobin.org/+68b/6wq.html
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[18:22:51] <IchGuckLive> Tom3p is it 2.64
[18:23:45] <IchGuckLive> looks like 2.49b
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[18:29:42] <andypugh> I haz missing plugin. Am I missing much?
[18:30:38] <IchGuckLive> im figting always with the flash on linux wrong color
[18:32:45] <archivist> I haz werkin plugin
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[18:57:54] <andypugh> archivist: How does one work out how deep to cut with a hob?
[18:58:54] <archivist> some data is with a hob, or I cut multiple passes till I am happy
[19:00:07] <andypugh> The hob came with no data
[19:00:37] <archivist> what numbers are on the side, part number or some extra
[19:01:03] <andypugh> I bought one of those overpriced hobs from eBay earlier, by the way. Though that is unrelated. It looks to be for making T5 pulleys, and has the correct bore for my horizontal arbor.
[19:01:43] <andypugh> The hob I am taking about has (IIRC) just helix angle and mod.
[19:01:45] <archivist> also it depends if it is topping or not
[19:02:12] <andypugh> The one I am using today was from arc-eurotrade. It's rather teeny.
[19:02:52] <archivist> I usually have been using random unknown hobs and assumed topping and repeated to the correct od
[19:03:21] <andypugh> I will just cut till it looks right then. But yes, it it is a topping cutter then that makes sense.
[19:03:33] <archivist> now you may guess why gearing must never be lost :)
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[19:03:40] <andypugh> Of course, then you are making assumptions about addendum....
[19:04:52] <archivist> I have a mod 1 from arc euro which I used a few of years ago
[19:06:25] <archivist> the real toys to properly measure what one makes are just too expensive
[19:07:11] <andypugh> http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/measuring/Gear-measure1.jpg ?
[19:07:26] <andypugh> I think my dad has one.
[19:07:48] <archivist> I have never got one of those yet
[19:08:07] <andypugh> But his was bigger, as he rarely worked on any gear less than 1m diameter, and often several times that.
[19:08:50] <andypugh> I recall him paying £1000 excess baggage charges once to being one (broken off) tooth home.
[19:09:50] <archivist> hmm odd toy on fleabay 140779835755
[19:10:30] <archivist> there was a gear measuring machine on fleabay for a long while for a few thousand
[19:10:50] <andypugh> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/gear-tooth-vernier-20-2-D-P-/321042022429?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4abf98801d
[19:11:51] <andypugh> I have to say that that is definitely the nicest one of those Gleason things I have ever seen. Also the worst.
[19:12:18] <t12_> for smallish gears would
[19:12:25] <t12_> using a scanner be pretty easy/accurate now
[19:12:26] t12_ is now known as t12
[19:12:34] <archivist> scanner! no way
[19:12:46] <t12> i guess assuming you're only looking at it in 2d
[19:13:17] <archivist> http://gears.archivist.info/gears/IMG_1214_hires.JPG
[19:13:59] <archivist> and those verniers are a bit big too
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[19:41:20] <tom3p> IchGuckLive, its 2.49b the pynode capability was defeated in 2.5 up to my present 2.65, supposed to reappear in 2.66 tho
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[20:09:30] <tom3p> any suggestions for low profile precision vises?
[20:09:31] <tom3p> my sable 2015 has limited Z open height, my schmidt vise leaves about 2mm stroke, just enuf for the brackets im making. (just)
[20:10:04] <jdh> what material are you holding/cutting?
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[20:11:52] <tom3p> alum brackets, 1.5mm thx, rt angle
[20:12:03] <tom3p> legs are 1.5"
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[20:12:57] <tom3p> the leg in the jaw can be reduced to 14mm before cnc
[20:13:35] <archivist> soft jaws maybe
[20:14:20] <tom3p> short jaws is what im after, i got no Z stroke ( i almost got no room for my hands to put in the parts )
[20:15:21] <tom3p> i'll do something with 123's bolted to table :/
[20:15:34] <archivist> I some times just clamp stuff on the table, add clamped blocks to clamp against
[20:17:07] <tom3p> yeh, the Sable2015 has flat plate table, no tslots, but lotsa room for tapped holes :)
[20:17:43] <jdh> I clamp things down to the table on my router
[20:17:57] <jdh> or to a spoilboard on the table.
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[20:24:14] <tom3p> 3R used to have a plate with a rear rt angle as a nest.
[20:24:34] <tom3p> forward of the nest, on the plate, was a grid of holes that you placed pins in, the pins were cross tapped for thumb screws.
[20:24:50] <tom3p> the thumb screws squeezed that part into to corner nest. the hole grid allowed different size parts ( all in a 4" diameter, 1.5" tall package )
[20:31:39] <tom3p> this idea
http://ftool.com/en/shop/index.php?script=/en/shop/wScripts/produkt_details.ws&article_id=FT%2001087&top_product=1
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[21:05:39] <L84Supper> https://www.asiga.com/products/ these guys actually claim 1um accuracy in their Z axis in their data sheets, have they no shame?
[21:08:19] <L84Supper> "theoretical software setting accuracy" vs "real physical world measurable accuracy" or maybe their repeatabilty is only +- 10um with 1um accuracy
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[22:09:08] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:22:48] <JT-Shop> Tom3
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[22:38:38] <Valen> damn amercian centric apocalypses
[22:41:41] <andypugh> A friend noticed that the Mayan exhibition in a museum in the town where he lives (Hamburg I think) was due to close on Friday. I wonder if that was deliberate?
[22:42:03] <andypugh> Valen: Clearly the apocalypse will be scheduled GMT!
[22:42:29] <andypugh> I am moderately happy with this evening's work.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SdvfSId15Za3-noq57yQHtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:42:47] <andypugh> 204 teeth to debur now.
[22:43:11] <andypugh> I expect Archivist will spot the "deliberate error"
[22:45:03] <L84Supper> andypugh: what's the material?
[22:45:27] <andypugh> Delrin
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[22:46:14] <andypugh> 0.8 mod. A 51:51 pair and a 36:66 pair. That is to suit the two possible final drive ratios of the vertical head.
[22:46:54] <L84Supper> what's the diameter of the lower right one?
[22:47:33] <L84Supper> hard to judge the size except for the crease in that paper
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[22:59:25] <tjb1> Ah thats awesome...
[22:59:36] <tjb1> Gecko is closed from tomorrow until January 2nd
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[23:08:52] <andypugh> Well, 0.8 mod and 51 tooth tells you everything you need to know :-). They are 51 * 0.8 mm diameter.
[23:09:00] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/25968-linuxcnc-software
[23:09:14] <andypugh> A gurl?
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[23:10:26] <JT-Shop> could be...
[23:10:40] <tjb1> I read that as Cand(ice) because of candcnc
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[23:10:52] <JT-Shop> does it matter where the axises are placed on the control board?
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[23:11:26] <andypugh> It's a fair question, and the answer is "No"
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[23:11:57] <FinboySlick> I hate walking in on Negative Andy.
[23:11:59] <p0st4L> tjb1,
[23:12:03] <p0st4L> i ordered that stepper kit
[23:12:10] <tjb1> Which one?
[23:12:16] <p0st4L> the $520 one
[23:12:20] <tjb1> cncrouter?
[23:12:23] <p0st4L> rgr
[23:12:32] <tjb1> rgr?
[23:12:33] <p0st4L> should be here next week sometime
[23:12:38] <p0st4L> rgr = roger = confirm
[23:15:42] <andypugh> That was a positive answer, actually.
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[23:20:53] <JT-Shop> I guess it depends on how you read the question, and I think I missed the vital clue
[23:21:20] <FinboySlick> But the whole point is to be clueless.
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[23:21:47] <JT-Shop> I'm usually clueless...
[23:22:55] <JT-Shop> so that is a TB6560 board?
[23:24:05] <JT-Shop> how much press fit can I put on a 3/4" steel plug?
[23:25:19] <andypugh> How big is your press?
[23:25:29] <tjb1> I would look that up in the handbook but I don't have good luck finding what I am looking for in that
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[23:26:04] <JT-Shop> 50 tons
[23:26:07] <cradek> JT-Shop: before what happens?
[23:26:33] <JT-Shop> enough for a tight fit
[23:26:42] <JT-Shop> the stock is 0.748"
[23:27:14] <JT-Shop> I'm planning on pressing in the plugs, tig weld the edge then redrill the hole in the proper place
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[23:30:58] <andypugh> Mke the plugs about 5 x as long as needed and slightly tapered from -.0005 under to +.005 over, then keep pushing until the press can't push any further. Then machine flat?
[23:32:19] <JT-Shop> I was going to put a little lead in taper... the press can bend big things I know
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[23:36:17] * JT-Shop looks for some general rule of thumb
[23:37:15] <cradek> with a taper I bet you could push a lot with 50 tons. maybe the consideration is how much you want to distort the part.
[23:37:50] <cradek> (I didn't read back to see what you're doing)
[23:38:36] <JT-Shop> I drilled a hole in the wrong place on a piece of 1/2" x 2" A36 HR
[23:38:45] <Loetmichel> *ha!* I love it when a plan comes together... first air duct done... now i will mill the second one, then tomorrow in the company ( ehrm, in 7 hrs) some alu tape over the edges. mount it on the hdd cage and enjoy a silent PC... :-)
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13826
[23:39:21] <JT-Shop> so a 3/4" hole in the proper place cleans up the old hole, so now I need to press in a plug weld it up then redrill
[23:39:32] <JT-Shop> the normal use for this is to be beat with a hammer
[23:40:27] <JT-Shop> I'm looking for a German fit you know Gootandtight
[23:40:57] <cradek> haha ok
[23:41:05] <icee> that's fairly pretty
[23:41:19] <cradek> I like the long taper idea then...
[23:41:47] <JT-Shop> a bit of googling says 0.001" per 1" of diameter
[23:43:18] <cradek> .0002 interference for a dowel pin is easy to tap in with a hammer, or a small hand operated press
[23:44:46] <cradek> bet you'll split your .5 bar before you run out of press power
[23:48:03] <JT-Shop> I bet that too
[23:51:32] <cradek> or wait is that .0005? a 1/4 dp is like .2502 I think, and is the dp reamer .2497?
[23:52:44] <toastydeath> i fucking hate reamers
[23:52:47] <toastydeath> that is all
[23:54:52] <JT-Shop> about a thou seemed right when I pressed it in
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