smoke is a valuable troubleshooting tool
bright flashes can often be missed in my experience
no flash, the wiring is still not a 100% short, the motor has to run for awhile before the smoke starts
it is just a small arcing
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you can not even see it with the cover removed, one does see the burnt coil, but it is not real bad yet
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Arcs generate major EMI
I've had shorted motor coils that look OK
and it was arcing to ground
well where else would it arc to?
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Overheating can cause shorted turns
I have a grinder here someone cooked pretty good but it runs OK today
I guess it has self healing winding insulation?
anyways, I sure hope this motor arc theory is correct and a new motor will fix things up good as new
pcw_home really burned in
it runs like a cham today though
better than burned-out
let me find the pic of it
sounds like someone stalled the motor for to long and it over heated
or over loaded it
a motor can smoke and still be OK
I was hoping mine would have had a small simple thing wrong and I could fix it
well good old imgur isn't working too swift today
[00:09:12] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/ieMSq.jpg
like the starting switch not opening up
yeah the starter switch in it might have been seized
the coil looked like someone barbequed it
I checked it
the switch has working well
Thats no spring chicken...
yeah I have another one just like it
nor a springer
you gotta love how whoever sold it had to write works in the price
because when I first plugged it in it didn't work
pfred1: Screwdrivers & etc? You didn't do latin at school did you?
the thermal had been tripped
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andypugh no I didn't
but i see what you're driving at because etc means and
"&" is a stylized "Et" I believe.
You quite often see &c in older books.
yeah well I put that there so I don't forget there is other stuff than just screwdrivers in that drawer
at my age I'm lucky i remember my own name half the time
I can't believe how often I look in the spanners drawer for a screwdriver.
They aren't labelled, but that's no excuse, there are only 4 drawers.
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well I repurpose the drawers in that box a lot
or when i put the labels on the drawers I'd just repurposed them all so that helped me remember what was in any of them
those are really my overflow screwdrivers not the ones i use all the time
in this pic you can see the screwdrivers I don't need to label http://i.imgur.com/1HE2r.jpg
evne those aren't my main toolbox screwdrivers but those are the ones i use when I'm over in that spot
You are a man of many vices, I see.
yes i am :)
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I can't believe the British don't have the word vise
do you guys have vice squads or is that just an American thing?
We use the same word to mean two different things. It makes for more amusing jokes.
over here it just means some folks are ignorant
[00:20:21] <andypugh> http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/eagmeister/cj_009.gif
I wonder if i have a pic of my woodworkign bench?
so my surface grinder table has 0.018" tilt in the Y direction... if I shim up a test plate it is almost flat
magnetic chuck on your surface grinder?
JT-Shop: Does that actually affect the results?
took the chuck off
I had a really hard time learning how to surface grind
yea it is tilted
man when I started i thought the motion wasj ust the funniest thing
the Y axis ways are flat
JT-Shop: Yes, but it might still generate flats. It depends whether the top is parallel to the ways or not.
Ah, OK. Tapered table then?
it puts the magnetic chuck at an angle so things are tapered in the Y axis
It isn't a build-up of concrungulate in the slides is it?
something is out of wack
the X axis uses rollers
0.018 is gigantic for grinding
and X indicates really flat
surface grinding is pretty bad assed though
I can make a finish that looks like a magnetic tape with the oil slick and stuff
I'll have to take the table off to see what is up
we had a huge power surface grinder too
I mean you could walk into it
4 foot diameter wheel
whenever i had to do nickel chromium bodies I'd have to get them done on that
they were too hard they'd warp
Ive run a blanchard grinder that had something like a 4 ft diameter
[00:27:14] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av9fuRmEpDg
tjb1 I didn't run the big grinder we had one guy that ran it all day long he wouldn't let anyone near it
I don't even think he'd have let the company owner near it
[00:28:13] * JT-Shop wanders back inside now
I dont see running grinders as fun
My arm is usually tired after 20 minutes on a manual surface grinder
I appreciate the job they do
if you need stuff to a ten thousandth of an inch it is the way to fly
I prefer to rub my parts with a piece of copy paper
we'd use wet or dry sandpaper sometimes too
I'd use that on the graduated bases
we had a pneumatic rotary table for those
but sometimes I'd finish dress them on some 600 grit sandpaper
let me find a picture of what i used to make
Ever pick up a piece of like 3000 grit sandpaper and ask yourself what the hell is this even going to do?
[00:31:56] <pfred1> http://www.emachinetool.com/images/catalogs/accessories/standard/js-dresser.jpg
I used to make those
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Those look too nice to be near grinding dust
Very nice pfred1
oh you should see the condition they came in we rebuilt them
after they'd been slammed by sheels and stuff
we'd send them back out like new
just the rebuild cost $1,500
pcw_home: any plans for a super port 7I40 ?
new the unit that one there that is a mid sized one it is about $4,000
the mike base is extra
Anyone here seen the new Orange Vises?
tjb1 got a link?
I kind of like Wilton for vises but I'd never spend what they cost
[00:36:19] <tjb1> http://orangevise.com/
my milling vise is a real POS
mikegg yes 8C21 (48V 30A 3 phase drive - can do brush as well)
I have a Kurt double vise (looks like a vice to me) with no jaws. I really ought to try to get rid of it.
but don't laugh too hard i got it at a flea market for $20 http://i.imgur.com/pwzbv.jpg
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I had to pull it all apart and regrind the threads it was stripped out and the movable jaw was cracked
I don't know it works OK to me now
pcw_home, will you do a high voltage model as well?
You have some nice flea markets...
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Nothing but the same garbage every year at the one I go to
The chinese have even started bring their junk too it
oh i travel around
tjb1 I got this vise for a dollar but when I got it it was all filthy I thought it was chinese http://i.imgur.com/Y0kAC.jpg
8I21 is what I meant
heh, 400 volts is too high. I need something in the middle
what is wrong with imgur tonight it is loading so slowly for me
8i21 is 48V
pretty decent pfred1
tjb1 I mostly just buy my tools used anymore
I'd like to try the 8I20's, but if I go that route I'd probably buy five of them. Just not ready to plunk down a grand I guess
Not my picture but I got this - http://www.bergeng.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/599-603-146-3.jpg
Brown and Sharpe 0-6" depth micrometer for $60
I got a Micotoyo for $3 at an estate sale but no extra anvils
oh that sale made me sick
a whole cellar loaded with tooling but I was in the process of moving so I had to pass on most of it
I could have went back the next day and got it all for like $100
but I didn't want to have to move it all
I still regret that
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because the people had no idea what any of it was worth
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I havent really started getting tools yet
Not sure if I am going to be working as a machinist
dont see many estate sales over here
every time I went up to the girl with a handful of stuff she'd look at it and say, give me $3
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it didn't seem to matter what it was
archivist I go to a lot of estate sales but I never saw one like that one
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this cellar was packed!
estate sales are run by professionals and they run friday saturday and sunday and if you go late sunday everything is almost free
because they figure it is now or never to get any more money out of anything
Not that many machine shops around here
So I dont imagine there would be a lot of people just packing tools
over here "estates" go to a local auction house general auction usually else a local "house clearance" company
last one I was at i picked up this beautiful pair of Utica tools linesmans pliers took it up to the check out table they said give me a quarter for them
I kicked myself because i left two other pairs of pliers behind
although an auction company quoted one family and I got to hear....7 car loads of books :)
book scanning is big
there are phone apps where you can scan the UPC symbol in books and they tell you what they are worth on Amazon
so buying used books can be very competitive
last good book I got was a 1957 book about Leonardo Da Vinci I paid $5 for it is is worth about $80
ebay and amazon have ruined the second hand market
but what I like to remind people this ain't ebay
I like to remind sellers I can buy via ebay and amazon
pcw_home, could I do 5I25 -> 7I74 -> 7I69 -> 2 x 7I40H ?
Pretty round about way I suppose
but these aren't anywhere near 3 hp servos
7I69 cannot drive 7I40, not fast enough but its conceivable
anyone happen to have a chart of wires and their power for PC power supplies?
tjb1 ought oh what are you doing?
actually I found it
Im using a pc power supply in my electronics box because all my wall warts suck
PC PSU today should have 3.3 5 12 and -12?
make one of my PSUs
tjb1 this one is amazing http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
im not into building electronic items
it usually always fails :)
althoug hthat one is deceptively simple even I screwed it up initially
i already have this computer psu
yes that is the popular argument always
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PC PSU SMPS aren't ideal general purpose supplies though
well because they are designed to run computers
some very special designed in fact
really the crappier the PSU is the more suited it is for general purpose use
this is off an old dell, probably 10 years old
but the nicer ones have sensing circuitry in them that makes them less desirable for different tasks
well its stamped march 2003 on the side
yeah the output filter caps on that aren't in too bad a shape I'm sure
all you have to do is run green -> ground and it works
some expect a 10% load for regulation
you have ot understand how a regulated supply works
they work with feedback
insufficient load and they cannot regulate properly
this isnt one of those :)
yeah some won't even come on without a load
hardest part about using this is cutting the hole in my box for the fan and plug
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well let's hope the PSU isn't a current ripple pump these days for you
that is what happens to them when the output filter caps go bad
not a big loss for me
some things don't need clean power
this is for a couple relays, BOB, 4 inductive prox sensors and 2 fans
the BOB might like clean power
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it may have its own on board regulator though
is it a 12 volt input?
I designed my BOB with on board regulation
[01:17:16] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
im gonna tear this psu down and remove all but the 12v and 5v wires
I dont need 20 of them lol
people do that
just be careful of the input caps
well it has been off a long time now right?
im not doing it now, ill let it sit all week
most PSUs have bleeders on the input caps in circuit
i just tore the cover off to see where the wires were going…they have like 6 yellow going through a hole in the board
and then 1 yellow right in front of it so 1 joint and I just eliminated all of the yellow I dont need
I want to get into making custom SMPS when I get back into electronics
they are interesting
it is what I'm into now high current electronics
the low current stuff just seems boring to me anymore
im into making things…mechanical things not electrical
electronics drives me crazy
oh electronics is my passion
to me it is like magic
yeah it is magic
after this weekend im convinced
well I dig that
I make mechanical things to achieve goals and it's OK I guess
but I don't like doing it nearly as much as I like fooling with electronics
like I won't make mechanical stuff just for the fun of it
that is the fun of it lol
where the hell is the REPLY button in Google+
nah I have to have a specific goal in mind
who uses google+
the reply appears when you hover over the comment
normally it is hidden
I dont see it anywhere
it is by the +1
to the right
it should appear when your mouse is on the comment
it doesnt show up
are you logged in?
i get the +1 and flag but thats it
yeah it is right to the right of +1
but it isn't there unless you put the mouse there
you cna always + the username then pick it off the floating menu it gives you
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or here is another trick go to the user's page and get their ID number out of the URL then + that
google will parse it int oa message to that user
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plussing a user ID always works
one thing I can't figure out on google+ is how to opt out of what's hot
ahh that workded
you plussed their user ID number?
that is handy if someone's name has some strange characters in it
yeah plussing their ID is a neat trick
ha I just figured out where to disable what's hot
ahh explore page
go to the explore page then move the top slider al lthe way to the left
last time I looked in my profile settings for it
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now how to remove the find people shit
beats me no one i know has ever found me in google
facebook scared the crap out of me!
if i haven't talked to someone in over 20 years I probably have my reasons you know?
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do you live in delaware?
cause I found your ass
I am Paul Frederick on google+
you cna add me but I rarely post anything i mostly troll other people's posts
I mostly follow Linux news on google+
do you have a android phone?
I don't have a mobile phone
WHAT THE FUCK
I never got in the habit
I was older when mobile phones came out so I looked at it like I got this far without one
one last detail about the lathe
I got a new miller dynasty TIG welder
when the problems started it was right after doing some welding with the new welder
I am now thinking that the noise from the tig started the whole motor shorting problem
I was thinking it was the drives that got damaged from the TIG noise
I have a miller econoTIG
that is what started the whole trip down the road I went down
well when you electric weld stuff you should make sure you have disconnected circuit pathways
like if you weld on a car disconnect the battery ground
it saves you from possibly blowing out your alternator diodes
but I guess the same applies to any machine make sure the path is open
so there is no possibllity any current can flow in a circuit
would be a pain to unplug very thing to weld
more of a pain to replace burnt out stuff
and the motor was switched off
well motors are a special case
they have coilk that can induce a current
you know like a transformer can
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being a reversible motor the off switch would have completely disconnected the motor from power, except the ground wire
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the motor is encased in metal that shields the coils from stray induced noise
if one leg of the motor is completely dicsonnected I can't see how it vould flow a current myself
electric welding is some pretty nutty stuff though I hate to take chances
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ever try to weld by a magnet?
the motor is completely disconnected except for the ground wire when the motor is switched off
man i got no idea why they sell those magnetic holders for welding
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any magnet totally messes up my TIG arc
stick welding with a car battery is the best
makes the arc waver all over the place
r00t4rd3d yeah I said earlier whenever I electric weld on a car I always disconnect the battery ground
I don't want people coming back saying I burned this or that out in their car on them
the wires going to the motor must have been enough of a antenna for the RF noise to arc the worn wire coatings
I have burnt up some wires pretty badly welding
but usually gas welding
I fried one harness once
it must have been so close to burning through that the RF sig from the TIG punched through
I mean literally fried it
TIG is HF
yes and the weld is RF
my TIG converts to a stick
and it is a sweet stick welder
try listening to a radio while someone is welding
try listening to a radio anytime
arc welding that is
here we got two kinds of music
country and western
gas welding is no problem
well gas welding can be a problem if distortion is an issue
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I started off gas welding but I was having a lot of distortion issues
you have to pump a lot of heat into a metal with a flame to get it up to welding temps
ever zap yourself really good with your TIG?
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pfred1, i installed 10.04 regular ubuntu on my machine and it found my sata controller - then i went through the steps to upgrade to linuxcnc as given on the site and then it lost the ability to detect my sata controller again
do you remember me? :)
it must be the kernel
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no, I have never zapped myself with any of my welders
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Does anyone know if fiberglass resin will adhere to ABS?
probably if you scuff it
fiberglass resin sticks to pretty much everything
I won't even get near the stuff unless i Have acetone
I have a gallon of acetone =)
yeah don't go near fiberglass resin without it
stuff is nasty!
heh, I'll be sure to wear a respirator too
whenever I fiberglass anything I get hands like sasquach
the fumes never bothered me
you do have to be a little careful putting the hardener into the resin sometimes
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a buddy of mine that worked at a boat yard tells me the reaction can run away
ah, good to know, I'll do small atches at a time
he says he's seen pots of resin burst into flame
using too little hardener isn't good either
I have a gram scale
I've had the stuff take days to setup
well I'd tend to err on too much rather than too little
to get the resin to flame yo ureally got to dump a lot of hardener into it
oh and they don't give you enough catalyist t oreally kick off the resin either buy more
I always get a big tube extra
I mix in an aluminum pop can and you can feel it heating up
like i tear the can in half
then mix in that
some hot is good
It's just to re-enforce an ABS coupler
they are super thin
yeah if the resin doesn't just stick to the plastic I can't imagine it not sticking if you scuff it
I've seen fiberglass resin stick to waxed surfaces
easy enoug to just grab some 80grit and have at it
if nothing else the stuff is sticky
can I brush on the resin?
that is how I do it
I use either a china or an acid brush
depends how much glassing I'm doing
I guess I'll have to do it it two parts one for each half
turn it over, do the over side
hmmm once you get that resin and glass on stuff I don't know best to figure out a way to do it all at once
like suspend the work from a wire or something
or a small section of pipe
as a handle
some way you can do it all glass is best in one piece
like the fibers
ah, so it doesn't drip all that much?
mat or weave?
well it is gonna drip
haven't bought anything yet
well you have fiberglassed before haven't you?
oh well it does take some getting used to
the glass starts out real stiff but when you soak it it becomes moldable
Yeah, i figured. I'm mostly conserned about the finish. I dont need glass spikes
you have to learn how to tamp the air out too you sort of pounce it with the brush
I know you fold the edge under and press it down.
it is hard to guarantee a smooth glass finish whout sanding after it sets up
OK do this
cut your glass pieces out and fit them dry
use scissors to cut the glass
I'm not going to lie once you get that resin going it gets pretty crazy
because the glass itself gets pretty limp and wants to flow and stuff
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and you're playing beat the clock for it setting up
while you have hands all gooped up i mean I don't use gloves but you might want to
fiberglass cloth is about impossible to mold to a compound surface
when i say I get hands like sasquach I'm not kidding
yeah the mat is better
you'd think the cloth would bat down better but it really doesn't
if you are making a mold…wax 10 times after you think you put enough wax on :)
[04:17:37] <Jymmm> http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/fiberglass_fabrics
once the resin hits the mat it is all sort of like a fluid together
mix your resin hot ;)
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well I just figure I'll machine it after it sets up
I don't get too hung up on what it is like before it hardens
pfred1: Do you use cabasil?
Yeah, I just dont winat fiberglass fiber drifting in the air or on my skin
I use bondo brand I think
acetone takes it right off
and acetone burns nicely too
tjb1: not me
well yeah don't smoke while you're doing this no open flames
I meant the skin
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oh it doesn't burn me
dries me out
acetone doens't burn my skin either.
Maybe I put too much on...
I wash my hands it it
Erm no it wasnt acetone, it was goof off
nah i can soak in it heck girls use it to take off their nail polish
and stain remover
how bad can it be?
goof off is napatha
Gel stain remover burns
I didnt cover my arms when we primed our drywall…I had little white dots all over me
acetone is highly flammable though
stuff makes gasoline look like something you'd use to put a fire out
pfred1: Nuh Uh... Here let me shoe you.. POOF!
protection is often the best cure but when I fiberglass i just figure I'm going to get the stuff on my hands
I've tried to use gloves they just make it worse
this is the middle of one glassing job I did http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/38/201nq.jpg
my holy truck
really? looks MUCH older
well it is an 83
looked newer after I painted it
I had an 85 F150, it didn't look that old =)
no 84 F150
you live in california don't you?
yeah, no road salt
I love to go 4 wheeling in my yoda too
i like to hit the roads before they get plowed or salted
once it snowed 48 inches and I even drove through that
I couldn't believe it it was up to the hood
I put some sweet michelin tires on that truck and it blows my mind how good it is in the snow
I pass jeeps!
like you're out on a sunny day
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Here is a smexy video of my THC working http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRBCV_OhEoY
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pfred1: pot, weed, maryjane
pfred1: (Torch Height Controller)
I knew a guy who made all kinds of crazy machines and he made the craziest trug paraphenalia you could ever imagine too
no for real
I believe you
I bet I've seen worse =)
he made this one pipe called the distributor that was programmable
ligthtbulb crack pipe
there was a gear with a magnet attached to it that would lift steel ball bearings out of seats
it was quite involved
there were even LED lights at the ends of the hoses so people could know it was their turn
it took him like a year to build
when he hooked it up to refrigeration I mean he had this umbillical cord running through his house it looked liek an astronaut was lost or something
ever tell him to GET A LIFE?
so I'd be very surprised if you've seen worse
I said worse, not creative =)
As much as tv costs…how about they put decent tv on at night
he is a retired multimillionaire
he made a fortune doing industrial controls and building machines
he just liked to make stuff
dr wayne dyer…sounds like a hoot
ewww pfred1 a hf multimeter
tjb1 some of them are suprisingly accurate
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some don't work at all
play the lottery enough and youll win something
hey for what they cost I can cut the banana jacks off the leads and I'm still ahead of the game
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i like mine
I've fried more than my fair share of expensive meters by now too
so I hook the cheap ones up first
I have this one - http://easthillsinstruments.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/l/fluke-87-1.jpg
flukes are nice don't leave it out in the cold though
buddy of mine did that with his the LCD was never quite the same after that
for the price that thing cost…fluke should fix it
I never need that kind of accuracy
that is what you're paying for with expensive meters
well it is what you should be paying for
I didnt want to keep buying them
So I just got a good one
I just need one of those amperage clamps
good ones burn up just as quickly as cheap ones do
I want a current probe for my scope
I got a cheap scope too, havent mastered it yet
I just don't want to pay a grand for it
Cant remember the name of mine...
Its those cheap ones that everyone firmware hacks
mine is easy t oremember
I have a 2336 with the Y option
let me tell you the Y option is the snizzle too
I dunno what the Y option is
that doubles the value of the instrument
oh time cursors
one day ill learn to use mine
you can measure time in the wave
I've used my scope as a characteristic curve tracer
which if you know what that is is pretty cool
it is about as advanced as scoping gets
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you can do stuff like match transistors
for a while I was on an audio amplfier kick
can you download what you know about electronics to my head?
I spent a lot of time messing with the stuff
well I have to get to sleep
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I'm trying to set up Mesa 7i43 with steppers, but getting all the time joint 0 following error. FERROR = 0.005 and MIN_FERROR = 0.0005 (mm) by default with PnnConf but even if i set those values to 5 and 0.5 I have the same error.
What BASE_PERIOD should be set for 7i43? In actual confog there is no such parameter now. Can this be the problem? The velocity and accel values I couldn't increase to the desired one, so the movements (ramps) are very long...
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jam628 : make min_ferror 0.5
jam628: and make your ferror 1.0 , base period is not used with 7i43
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no base period on the mesa 7i43
use the servo period
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oh well he didn't stick around long enough
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he'll be back .. i'm not convinced thats the problem
probably but he didn't hear either one of us
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Jam628 (should you read this later) usual cause of following error on Mesa Stepgens is that the stepgen maxaccel parameter is not set. This should be set to about 1.25 times the machine maxaccel.
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ways look good but they put the rollers in wrong on the V way
they...I thought someone more local rebuilt said item recently :)
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hi, my onboard gfx chip interferes with the latency as the site's guide says
so now i need a pci express card just to avoid this and i'm considering Radeon HD 5450
which gfx chip?
I mean which onboard graphic chip
I assume it was the shop that used to own it... I just noticed at some point they had ordered a set of rollers from notes in the parts book
Because there are workarounds for some
because its typically not the hardware thats a problem, but rather the driver
pcw_home, it's a G530 celeron and all i can find on the gfx chip is "Intel® HD Graphics"
do you have any video cards lying around to try before you buy something
thats my problem
Hm I wonder if that uses the same driver that the Atoms use
"Graphics card capable of at least 1024x768 resolution, which is not using the NVidia or ATI fglrx proprietary drivers, and
which is not an onboard video chipset that shares main memory with the CPU"
my onboard does that
Oh thats obsolete
do you have any suggestions on what i can do? my idle-latency is about 11 uS and if i view youtube video it goes to twice that
about 24 uS
Atoms and AMD fusion have onboard graphics and are OK and the Intel HD graphics should be fine
live with it
but 24 is a fine number
you may be able to improve latency with the isolcpus trick
that's only 25k hz
well 1/24 uSec is 41 KHz and with 2x margin thats 20 KHz
which is 600 RPM for 1/10 ustep ratio so not bad
1500 RPM with 1/4 stepping which is very likely faster than the step motors will go
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hmmm... depends... on the stepper driver voltage ;-)
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I did it! Not sex with female twins yet, but already something like in GTA San Andreas! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4WlwKSCkaA
Next time I will have stolen a car. :)
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hmm, chasing your dog?
at least the first seconds ;)
but i want it better, pcw_home :)
DJ9DJ: just rode to garage, and took my dogs
faster movement with higher microstepping
it's about 5 cm per second with 600 rpm
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hi folks a reamer for a Stepper is this available in the USA 6.35mm
or what is the shaft of a ordanary Nema 23 1/8 7/16
6.35 mm does sound familiar...
Xabster: you do know microstepping doesn't help with accuracy?
i dont know a whole lot about anything, no
what does it do then?
manly gets rid of resonance issues at certain rpms of the stepper.
6.35 is 1/4"
but you will not get any better accuracy than about 1/2 step.
so, let's say i experience resonance then I *could* change to a different microstep to avoid it?
but that's about it?
yes - raising the microstep will usually help
Xabster: Half step 400/rev is the best to go
Xabster: what are you going to drive
Laser Mill lathe plasma ...
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parts for a RC car
or cars, rather
but it's a hobby project and we're 2 on it and we're both trying to get our respective "tasks" to perform optimal
mine is the software and PC setup
and some more, and he's building the machine more or less from scrathc
unfair workload? :D
where are you from Europ USA ...
do you think a non-onboard GFX card would solve some of the latency?
since idle latency is about 12 uS
and if i view a youtube video it's 25 uS
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Xabster: with 12000 you are well over 350 inch per minite
but 12000 ns is only when the PC is idle
viewing GFX stuff increases latency
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up to 50k you are also good on hobbyist
as your mill will not need to go that fast
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Xabster: im in germany DID you check for SMI so the latecy jumps on this PC issue
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the latecy jumps high on pulses 20-30sec
Reset it and see
what is SMI ?
a PC safty behavier somthing like a Watchdog
i see, but those numbers don't quite match my problem
SMI is a real-time killer and to avoid latencies of several 100 microseconds up to a few milliseconds, you need to disable them
i'm not close to 100 uS really
Xabster: a plugged in video may help
no it happens every whatabout secondes so reset your latesy and see if it is happening
well, my friend on skype just rushed to the store to get a pci gfx card
he's got 20 min to get there =)
if that doesn't help we'll take a look at the SMI thing
i woudt check first if a standard fix cand get you to <50K
The SMI interrupt usually is very periodic so check
i'm not 100% sure how to check this stuff
reset laitency wait if it jumps reset again
do you mean to look at the max latency?
just start your latency script in the CNC folder
look at the max latency rset it when it goes high
lok again if it jumps up maybe 12k -> 80k
reset again and look
if this happens at maybe periodic its smi
im off By till 7pm Berlin time
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Anyone use DSLRs in here?
hm yes, why?
Im looking at getting one, my phone does horrible video. Canon Rebel T3 looks to be good price
the big money will go into lenses if you get hooked
they have different model-numbers in europe... 1000D or 1100D might be the base model now
now they are listing the 6D for preorder also, interesting..
Im not looking to go pro or anything just a good one that will last
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all the cheaper models are fairly similar, you have to jump to 7D to get a bit of pro-feel into the body (metal frame etc)
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or maybe 60D
Doesnt even have to be canon…any recommendations in the $300-$400 range that includes at least 1 lense
go with canon or nikon, there are so many more lenses for those
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I settled for canon
but you can also grab a sony (less lenses available, but stabilisation in the body)
they had a 49% off for the 60D the other day over here
that would have been nice to catch ;).. but I already had one
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Fog all over the Freeway
Xabster: all clear on latency
we installed new GFX card and that solved the latency
but now youtube videos are played at 30x speed or something
we formatted and reinstalled, same problem
jdh: You around ?
Xabster: its on the realtime kernel did you check on the SMI
no i didn't check SMI
is 10.04 on the system
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Loetmichel: died you see the sun today
you cannot see the sun if you died
just saw this on the fi forum. the 1:1 5th axis coupling sounds weak. what do you guys think? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Rotary-Axis-4th-5th-Axis-CNC-Rotary-Table-/261118755481?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3ccbe40299
the whole thing looks weak Oo
there is no gearing in it?
I think so
don't take out the 100mm face mill with that one :)
and one cannot be sure of being on centre
better off with a couple of vertex rotaries and an angle plate
for some folks it might work he did the 4th 5th axis but not for real milling
5th axis is direct, you could spin it with your little finger
yeah that's what I feared... :)
only use would be foam and wax
i must know
you might be impressed on the foam milling foarce
I might not
Im off By till tomorow :D
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pcw_home: with SPI, does 2 chip-select lines means you can have 2 devices or 4? or more?
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2 CS bits will give 2 devices (but 3 bits could give you 4: 2 select bits and one frame signal)
(and a 1/4 decoder)
hm, ok. the raspberry pi seems to have 2 cs bits. then it has i2c also but I guess that is slower.
You can use GPIO bits to expand the SPI channels
as extra CS bits?
basically you need a frame signal and a decoder enabled by frame (no just plain old GPIO bits)
for raspberry pi, having HAL + some simple GUI (gladevcp) and a driver for SPI and the GPIO would be nice. would enable all kinds of tinkering..
Yeah the SPI is probably fairly fast
3 or 4 or maybe more SPI-devices, and real-time with 1ms thread would already be nice
i2c is dismal speed wise
Yeah HAL is a nice tool for combined measurement and control without ~= text Labview
without coding I mean
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I have troubles with the managment of home switches, but I have no home switches, for some reason the machine always resets on the first move I ask
I need help on the homing too, for some reason to start a task you need to be at home position?
do I need debouncing on my virtual/software home?
mevon: Read the INI setup page, especially NO_FORCE_HOMING
And just don't connect the home switches in your HAL
Ill check that ty andypugh
andypugh, do you recommand a home-min combination?
It's what I use.
But I would make sure your machine is going to work _at_all_ before bothering with them
what do you mean by "the machine ... resets"
andypugh, oh its working now
cradek, have to press f1+f2 to put it online again
how do you call that?
It seems to toggle the limits whenever it starts up.
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well its impossible, and its mainly linuxcnc based actings because unless I sent the msg, nothing changes, I sure I dont sent a switch toggle anytime nothing is happening
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maybe because my homing is not disabled
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I have not seen this behavior. maybe you should tell us a lot more about what you have set up and something will ring a bell.
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I get a "cannot un home while moving" error
on the z axis
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is it better to have a home switch or a min-limit switch?
Both. But they can be the same switch.
so combined is the best
combined it easiest, with limited pins. Separate is best, then you can have the home switch somewhere convenient (like with the vice under the spindle)
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lets say I put a home sw like you described, is it toggled or active on one precise position? Im sry I have lots of questions I just want to learn all I can
Ideally a centrally-placed home switch is on for one half of travel and off for the other (so might be operated by a cam-plate). Otherwise the machine can't tell which way to go to find home.
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because Im guessing, mechanically it would be rather odd to use a tact sw to do the job
This is why home switches are normally at one end of travel, and outside the normal range.
ok :/ thks for the info
outside you say?
I wouldn't want to use a physical switch that way, but a prox or opto would be fine.
so I had it all wrong
my home is 0.0, my min is -0.1 and max is 6 or 8 or 1.5
only z axis min is -0.5
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Your z negative is only .5?
The home switch doesn't have to be at the home position. In fact typically it is HOME_OFFSET from the home position.
here is my .ini http://pastebin.com/B83ts6an
tjb1, yeah :S
figured it was the best for pcb milling
its a mantis
Your ini says -.25 and 1.5
seems I havent changed it yet but what do I dont see that makes it a problem here?
i kept it safe for now
Do you home your z axis at max height or close to it?
that was my goal
makes it easier for tool change
though Ive set a tool_change position to 0 0 1
Im not sure since my homing doesnt work yet but shouldn't your min be greater since Z is working in a negative direction from the home position?
makes sens :P
but I made that so the top of my material is always 0
when the tool touches the mat, thats my z=0
but that isnt home
well I wanted it to be a software home
i mean for all that I know it could be home
since i have a toolchange_pos
Im not the best person to get advice from :P
But I believe the home is get to g53
but like you said maybe its not the best choice
touch offs are set to g54+
andypugh: is that right?
G53 refers to the machine coordinate system, that will correspond to the INI file numbers.
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You don't work in that system though. (Unless you actively put a G53 before every single move)
So home coordinates are set in g53?
More G53 is set by home coordinates
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and then software limits work off the g53 system?
If you MDI g0 x0 y0, does that just default to g54?
send the wrong ini file :S I was using the wrong configs..... meh
tjb1: Yes, soft limits sort-of live in G53. I think that you start up in the same working CS as you last shut down in. I think it is sticky.
the best way to troubleshoot them sw is with show HAL config, or Hal meter?
I know if I home, it doesnt reset the coordinates in the display
only a touch off does and even then sometimes that doesnt work if I forget to remove G92 :P
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tjb1, how do you set touchoffs?
Can you apply codes to happen when linuxcnc starts or make it just reset?
beside the home button
mevon: Whichever works best. Halscope is handy too.
ahhh tjb1 now I know what that is ty
the "End" key does that
andypugh: Can it be made to reset everything on restart?
tjb1: Yes, RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:[RS274NGC]-section
That will even run when it wont allow a G92.1 without homing?
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PCW around to peek at a servo runing screenshot?
I'm off but will be back in an hour or so
great, thanks, could really use your help analyzing a halscope plot
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anybody: what is that website used for posting screenshots here on irc? Need to get one ready to post
thanks John !
servo tune driving me bonkers, need to get help
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how can I reset the axis to the 0 0 0 position?
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main menu under machine, zero the coordinate system
ok nice thaks
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trying to reprogram the arduino while linuxcnc is running is bad
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what is SCALE used for in the .ini
scale can be used for several things, it is basically like a multiplier used to scale a value
steps per inch
as in INPUT_SCALE in the [AXIS x] sections
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assuming you have encoders, its the encoder resolution in quadrature per inch... andy correct me if I am wrong please
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andypugh: got time to peek at a halscope servo plot and comment?
Not right now, sorry, dinner just happened. (and I am actually no expert)
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no problem, enjoy dinner! your a lot more expert than me
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If I did "G10 L2 P0 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0" would that reset all axis to 0 upon startup if in the RS272 startup code
I cant understand the difference between G10 L2 and L20
PCW: you around? could use help with a halscope servo plot
gmouer: since others could probably help, instead of asking for a certain person, you should always just ask your question.
ok, thanks! here is the plot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=717vb7kLKKk
G10 L2 offsets the origin of the axes in the coordinate system specified to the value of the axis word.
G10 L20 is similar to G10 L2 except that instead of setting the offset/entry to the given value, it is set to a calculated value that makes the current coordinates become the given value.
I read that, dont understand the calculated part
it is open loop, velocity loop in the drive, pos loop in linuxcnc, PID all zero'd only FF1 active
my convern is those overshoots at the start and stop of motion, refuse to tune away, tried a diff brand servo amp and diff motor even, same result
if you move to point X and say G10 L20 X0 then an offset is calculated to make the current location be X0
gmouer: that probably isn't the URL you intended
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What would L2 do at the same position?
oh oh your right !
try it in the MDI window and see
Not at home :)
this one is better LOL http://imagebin.org/236498
G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 (clear offsets for X,Y & Z axes in coordinate system 1)
gmouer: ok what's your question about it?
So if L20 X0 sets the x to 0 and L2 X0 sets the x to 0…I dont get it
the overshoot at the start and end of movement, it refuses to tune out
when closed loop, it translates into following error the same way
gmouer: oh I see, you have overshoot with ff1 only.
yes, and I tried a different brand servo drive and a diff motor, same results
also the same results on my other axis, I am stumped
G10 doesn't set X it sets an offset from the origin of X
when you say it refuses to tune out what do you mean? what have you tried?
Needs velocity loop tuned at drive
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yes PCW, but I have tuned till blue in face, overshoot is unaffected
open loop, drive adjustments do not effect that overshoot at all
you tried to tune the velocity loop? knobs or software on the amp?
yes, even tried a different brand servo drive
Ok so L2 sets the coordinates to that value, L20 sets an offset that will equal to the value you call…ex X-8.0 and you call X5.0 it sets an offset of X13.0?
thats my problem
is this velocity loop a tach on the motor?
no, its encoder derrived
encoder hooks directly to the amp?
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yes, amc drive, also ran diff drive with emc generating a fake tach feedback for that other drive, same results, same results using real tach also
where is the encoder?
did you check the set screw?
x and z are diff brand motors, both do the same overshoot
yes, checked for mechanical "lag", putting force against cross slide has no effect on halscope trace
I have a idea, but its a long shot
then your velocity gain is just too high. are you sure you're setting it right? distant memory tells me the amc amps set a gross gain with dip switches and fine gain with a pot...?
tuning the drives velocity loop has to change this
I agree with pcw
nothing much LinuxCNC can do about it
the gain pot is 10 turns, 5 turns makes no diff, more gain will oscillate, less trace stays about the same
are you also 100% positive you have switches set correctly for encoder velocity feedback? check everything again
Is this just FF1?
yes, positive, I had identical problem with z axis, and that uses a real tach, also on the x with a diff drive
I am wondering if the 7i77 has a very fast spike on its analog output and the various amps are trying to respond to it
still looks like drive tuning (you should be able to set the velocity gain low enougg that it lags considerably)
there are at least 3 switches that you should be experimenting with
7I77 outputs are glitchfree (~100 usec risetime)
I had gain backed down just about all the way with no effect to those overshoots
on 2 diff brand amps
I tried all the obvious things before I came here
current loop gain, current scaling, integrator capacitor
x and z are diff motors too, z has a actual tach on its sem motor
gmouer: but we don't know what you think and don't think is obvious :-)
gotta agree there cradek!
after hours of tuning, over the weekend I tried the amc amp with direct encoder input, found the same behavior
G10 L2 X2 changes the offset from the origin from what ever it was to 2, it does not set the current coordinates to anything
all the tune adjustments on the amp behave as expected but with no effect on that overshoot at the beginning and end of movement
gmouer: perhaps you just can't accelerate that fast. if you zoom in to that rising edge we'd be able to see more
is it just tha you are exceeding the motors maxaccel?
PCW: good grief
? if it was exceeding the motors accel, why would it overshoot?
PCW: the velocity loop does have an integrator
PCW: you can set it to one of two values :-/
gmouer: share a new plot with it zoomed in
let me post a link to the drive being used
yeah, I'm going on a guess (B25A40)
Yes that would do it that looks like 10 ms to 15% of full speed so that very aggressive acceleration
[22:28:45] <gmouer> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be15a8.pdf
good guess, its smaller brother
running a dc brushed motor which it is spec'd to do
as a note, the overshoot is directly proportional to the velocity requested
the machine is 200 ipm, the plot was at 50ipm
I thin the accell is just way too high
I varied accel in the ini file over a wide range but it did not seem to change the display much
varied it from about 10 to 30
JT-Shop: L2 is moving machine coordinates then? g53
I run the same motors on another lathe at 15 accel and it is moving much much more iron, this is a linear rail small machine, very easy to move
umm you trace shows cruise speed in 10 ms... thats not very realistic
zoom in zoom in
I had accel up at one point, sort of simulating a battery for open loop
Well step inputs are good but cause trouble if you have any integral term
being new, I am confused, it is actually going beyond the commanded speed, then slowing back down, it would seem to me that it is accelerating even more than requested. what am I missing?
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if the velocity loop has any integral term you need to limit the accel to something the machine can track
this is open loop, P, I , D all at zero, only FF1 in effect
gmouer: "Integral Windup"
Integral Windup in the _velocity_ loop in the drive
yes, I have seen that windup in the past, but I is at zero, open loop
if you enter a ramp faster than the drives velocity loop can track and the drive has any integral term on its internal velocity loop it will overshoot
no it's not. You can't set velocity loop I=0 on these drives
I in the drive
ahhhhh in the drive !
ok, PCW, now I am getting the picture
cradek, run along and write us a finite-jerk tp, there's a good chap.
oh go fly a kite
ok, so I in the drive is suspect, but there is no independent adjustments on the drive, just a overall gain pot
Well that means you need to tune with a velocity ramp the drive can follow (reduce accell)
ok PCW, gottcha I will play with that theory on the machine and see what happens. I have learned a lot about servo behavior in the last few weeks, much from reading your posts on the forum
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so if you want to tune with a step you need to turn 'I' off in the drive
Ive just done it (too many times)
don't think that can be done in the amc drive (short of a soldering iron)
how do you turn the I off in a drive that does not have independent adjustments for pid? only a overall gain pot?
Lower accel in LinuxCNC should give lower velocity ramp, should reduce the problem.
I would not bother, I would just reduce the accell
you guys are fantastic teachers !
thank God you don't charge LOL
That's what you think :-)
Ok JT-Shop, I think I got it…L2 moves the origin of the specified coordinate system, L20 sets the current coordinates to the numbers specified?
guess I am out to the garage for a few hours tuning tonight, armed with great info, thanks so much guys
Some controllers zero the I term the instant you cross the setpoint.
drives like the amc don't tell you much about the inner workings unfortunately
and I am far too new at servos to tell by the symptoms
if you zoom into the leading edge of the step you should get a good idea of the drives acceleration capabilities
I just never expected excessive accel would cause a overshoot in velocity, you set me straight though
#5221 is the offset for the X axis in the G54 coordinate system
I kind of assumed excessive accel would round off the corner as it came up to speed
G10 L2 P1 X2.5 will change the value of #5221 to 2.5
If your sitting at X10 in machine corrdinates and say G10 L20 P1 X2.5 it will change the value of #5221 to 7.5
thanks again guys, hopefully the new info will allow me to get the fine tune done
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gmouer: It would, generally, except that all the time there is a position error the I term keeps winding up in a (failed) attempt to corect it. Then when the error is the other side, it takes just as long to unwind it.
I didn't think the drive had a PID loop internal, just a single op-amp rather than a complex pid loop in play
Just PI I think
now, I do recall reading about integration in the various drive docs I have been though,\
the P is done with the op-amp and its gain pot, the I done with R/C components? is that the basic idea?
the amc drive was just a experiment, the orig drives are servo-dynamics with the machine
think I got it, the amp gain system is not a simple fixed gain amp, but they ususally have PI loops in play
so if you put a step velocity input, the integrator sees a huge error and ramps very quickly so overshoots
ahha docs I have read don't mention that when describing the battery method
[23:01:02] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/236510
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Lovely purple primer
should be of interest to you
Might be, what is it for
water table input?
it's a bulkhead elbow for the water tank
water tank input/output
Why arent you using steel? :P
it doesn't glue well
Mc Master has some nice weld in fittings for like $3 for 3/4 npt
yes but they only have threads on one side... think about it
weld into pan, screw pipe in?
tank not pan
tank under pan
Here is the thcud that I used - http://pastebin.com/widDGH3p
What really gripes me is PVC and CPVC...
I must go…driving home so I wont get there until probably 9pm est :)
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Jymmm, ho ho
JT-Shop what did you end up with for a tank?
a 40 gallon water heater
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[23:41:23] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/236514
is that goin under the table?
ve7it: you're alive?
yup... trying to build a tig welder at the moment.... I always have to do things the hard way!
did you epoxy your floor? that's entirely too clean
no, just raw concrete... I do keep it clean
[23:47:20] * JT-Shop puts on his chef hat
seems like about 4 too many chairs for a workshop
andypugh: those aren't chairs, those are saw horses
it's for all the other kids to come and watch
I intend to motorise my new dividing head.
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For compactness I am thinking of mounting the motor shaft rigidly in the worm gear.
That saves the length of a coupling, and the motor flange can fit tight up against the body.
Then, because that can't work just like that, I want to mount the motor on a torsionally rigid but axially/angularly complaint mount.
This is pretty common for encoders, viz: http://www.clrwtr.com/Images/Red-Lion-Controls/Red-Lion-ZOD-ZOH-Encoders.jpg
Reckon it will work?
(I could, alternatively, use a rose-joint torque-arm)
I have thought of using that for mounting servos/steppers.. I don't see why it wouldn't work..
It makes things a lot shorter.
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(not to self, save before make before run)